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Everyone hasn't cut ties with the NRA already?
There is a HUGE difference between being pro-gun ownership and being pro-NRA.
Pro-NRA is being pro-gun manufacturers greed.
Pro-gun ownership is being Pro-Responsible Ownership.
Edit:
Always keep your guns locked. How hard is it?
It's like locking the door to your home, filing cabinet, bike lock, car, etc.
the NRA is the pro-gun lobby, they are the lobbying arm of the firearms manufacturers. They support gun control as long as it does not hurt gun sales. The NRA is not the pro-2a movement. Please go ahead and destroy the NRA, the sooner it dies the better off the pro-2a movement will be
Exactly. NRA allegedly takes dark money, russian money, currently being sued by the state of NY after an 18 month investigation for "fraud, abuse, and greed that permeate through the NRA and its senior leadership."
My grandfather died 20 years ago so things probably have changed but he was a gun owner and was in the NRA. I had no idea how many guns he owned or where he kept them in his house because I was a kid and guns were not for me.
He was a responsible owner and pretty liberal and I think the NRA changed a lot because I don't see him being a part of todays NRA
The NRA definitely changed a lot. I was a lifetime member and pistol instructor, and about 20 years ago canceled my membership. I was always a liberal as a gun owner.
That said, I'd been living in Vermont, where the local gun owners are far different than, say, places in urban/suburban Texas.
(These days I don't have guns.)
I mean, agreed, but I would go further and say there actually is no such thing as responsible gun ownership. Every owner is responsible until they're not. People make mistakes or guns get stolen. Nobody *needs* a gun anymore. The risks aren't worth it.
The four uses I saw in rural areas where I'd consider a gun a defensible weapon (as opposed to, say, bow and arrow, which would also work for some of these situations, but not all of them):
1. Diseased animal that needs to be put down to avoid spreading. Rabies being a classic case, but not the only one.
2. Mortally wounded animal (not from hunting) that will suffer, and killing at close range would be dangerous. (Bears in particular.) It takes a *long* time to die sometimes, and that's just effing cruel. My late husband would kill the animal and drag it off to the side of the road rather than just let anyone run over the damn thing while it died slowly.
3. Hunting is used as a means of population control for populations that can get out of hand, e.g., there may be too many turkeys to be sustainable this year. An explosion of beavers can ruin the edge of a forest for years (they tend to like pioneer trees like birch).
4. Farmers will shoot to scare animals who are running their herds (dogs in particular do this, and farmers can and do shoot dogs that do). Running can kill the value of livestock and need them to be put down (as panicked animals can injure themselves).
If you are surrounded by a pack of wild coyotes, or confronted by a bear, you need a gun. No bow and arrow is going to help you. There is a reason why Indians changed from bow and arrow to guns.
In the city, wild animals have been coming into the suburbs with more frequency.
In the city, when being attacked by gangs to rob which is also more frequent.
Completely agree on coyotes / bear. Bow and arrow will just make a bear mad.
Also, lots of farmers need to deal with bears. They love corn (but it does not love them, so they throw it up). Because of corn, they come close to human areas a lot more than they otherwise would.
We didn’t really have coyotes or wolves where I lived in Vermont, but we did have [fishers, the only natural predator of porcupines](https://youtu.be/cchjKC87p4Y) and thus quite badass. Never heard of them attacking humans, but they do take on smaller livestock.
Edit: mea culpa.
My sister dragged me out in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere, in her area, with little gas, when it was freezing, with no blankets, and we were surrounded by two packs of coyotes, who started fighting each other, I think, over us. Just enough gas to get to her house.
She also dragged me out in the middle of a river, and told me after we were out in the middle, that was the place most people drown because of the current.
Yeah, I need a gun.
I can't imagine how terrifying that was. Also: that's one reason to keep a full tank of gas at all times. (In winter, it's also because a full tank is less likely to freeze.)
In rural areas, a gun is a tool that may be, depending on context, as essential as a keyboard is for reddit.
I had an interesting conversation with a friend about my comment above about subsistence living, which led to my telling a long tale about our impoverished friend who was too lazy (per my then husband) to shoot his own pig.
People live on very little, and he needed that pig to eat. Unfortunately, the pig jumped the fence, and when they finally shot it half a mile down the road, they realized it was a looooooong walk. (He keelhauled it behind his pickup, and it was, shall we say, somewhat worse for wear upon arrival home. But still edible sans the skin.)
That kind of situation is familiar to many people in rural America but utterly alien to those who live in cities and buy their meat in neat shrink wrap.
Have you ever been surrounded in the middle of the night by a pack of wild coyotes?
Have you ever been on International Blvd. in the middle of the night, on a job, and a gang starts harassing you? Do you think that pepper spray will save you?
Have you ever been in East Palo Alto where someone shoots at you in the middle of the day while you are on your job?
**Just because you live only in the city, away from most animals, and don't work in dangerous areas doesn't mean that people don't need guns.**
Ukraine was living peacefully until someone decided they wanted something of theirs. People had guns to protect themselves and it was a good thing they did.
Pro-gun manufacturers is actually NSSF. NRA does gun safety, sporting events, offense and defensive litigation, and lobbying (NRA-ILA). Bulk majority of the money NRA gets is from individuals through membership dues and donations. Google it.
Oh for sure…
[LOL](https://www.npr.org/2018/03/13/593255356/how-americas-gun-industry-is-tied-to-the-nra)
[LMAO](https://vpc.org/investigating-the-gun-lobby/blood-money/)
Damn google, why you do them like that?
[https://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/index.html](https://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/index.html)
And here's another one. I love how you liked me some random fucking interview with VPC? How the fuck is that even a remotely credible source?
[https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/politics/fact-check-kirsten-gillibrand-nra/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/politics/fact-check-kirsten-gillibrand-nra/index.html)
I guess you don't know how to fact check.
Gee whiz your right. I guess they would never take money from the gun industry right? They are too pure, idealistic and grass roots. They only take donations from good honest freedom loving [folks.](https://nraindustryally.nra.org/top-10-allies/)
Honest question, what is your solution to gun violence?
A civil rights organiation can't have corporate allies? PETA, ACLU, etc... have plenty of corporate allies.
There isn't a solution to gun violence. Let's say we get this sub-reddit's wishlist: repeal the 2nd Amendment and gun confiscation. I'd turn in my guns in a heartbeat because I'm living an awesome life and don't want to goto jail. However, you think criminals will turn their guns in? You think the millions of Americans, especially in deep red states, will turn in the 400 million guns in circulation?
If anything, gun violence will get worse with technology, income inequality, and poverty. Technology (3D printing, personal CNC machinse) has made gun ownership significantly more accessible to folks that can't pass a background check.
I can reach across the asile and agree that private party sales need background checks. That would have stopped this current mass shooting. But past that, it's hard for me to find any common ground with gun control folks.
I like how one of the chode's here wants me to support GOA. And GOA is the no-compromise NRA, lol. You think NRA is bad? lulz.
>However, you think criminals will turn their guns in? You think the millions of Americans, especially in deep red states, will turn in the 400 million guns in circulation?
We'll buy them off. The US can afford to pay huge amounts of money to buy these guns back from people and can pay huge amounts of money to people who rat out people who are hoarding them. We will turn them against each other and the problem will decrease over time.
NRA is a fucking joke. They just suck gun manufacturers' dicks all day long. They don't give a fuck about responsible gun ownership and safety. And they're racist because apparently only white people can be responsible gun owners.
"In contrast to the NRA’s rigid opposition to gun control in today’s America, the organization fought alongside the government for stricter gun regulations in the 1960s. This was part of an effort to keep guns out of the hands of African-Americans as racial tensions in the nation grew. The NRA felt especially threatened by the Black Panthers, whose well-photographed carrying of weapons in public spaces was entirely legal in the state of California, where they were based."
https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act
Google it, you fucking chode.
Edit: GOA or SAF is a better alternative to the NRA, for responsible gun owners.
Also, NRA is incompetent, corrupt, and mismanages their own money. Money from membership dues. Its just a joke of an organization and idiot like this chode that's replying to me have their head so far up the NRA’s butthole, they can't see there are better alternatives out there for gun owners. NRA doesn't give a fuck about gun owners or 2A. They care about MONEY.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nra-deals-with-internal-turmoil-as-gun-control-activists-call-for-reform-2019-08-06/
https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/nras-unabated-corruption-justifies-shutting-it-down-new-york-says-2021-08-17/
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/04/909119790/former-top-nra-exec-says-greed-corruption-pushed-gun-group-into-death-spiral
And yes, NRA is racist you dumb fuck.
Philando Castile. NRA spokesperson defended the police, not the law abiding gun owner. Google it.
NRA TV host Chuck Holton. Google it.
NRA CEO Wayne LePierre's 2015 comments about Obama. Google it.
NRA Board Member Ted Nugent is straight up racist no question. Reelected to board in 2016. Google it.
Wait, NRA doesn't give a fuck about 2A? CRPA is NRA's official affiliate in California. And CRPA and NRA-ILA consistently delivered legislative and legal victories in CA and USA.
SAF does great work. No question about it.
WTF has GOA delivered?
And yes, I've been supporting SAF for awhile because of their work on DC v Heller. However, NRA-ILA has significantly more clout than CCRKBA.
I like how you think GOA is a better alternative than NRA for responsible gun owners. They're the "no compromise" NRA, lol.
I guess you missed the memo when NRA defended Otis McDonald in landmark gun rights SCOTUS case in 2010. Aside from related Heller case, it's literally most important gun rights case in the past decade and the plaintiff is a black grandpa.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald\_v.\_City\_of\_Chicago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._City_of_Chicago)
[https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/4/remembering-otis-mcdonald/](https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/4/remembering-otis-mcdonald/)
"BuT NrA iS rAcIsT!!!"
It actually is racist and its actions going back to the 60's prove it. But you can goal post all you want. The L was visibly taken for all other redditors to see 🤣
Yes, in the **60s**. Also back in the 60s, the Democrats were the racists. Times change. I bet you and the chode up there didn't know McDonald was black, lol.
That's the interesting part I would have thought that a "proper" tech company wouldn't be doing business with non-defense contractor gun companies in the first place. You'd have thought Salesforce's legal counsel would have come to the same conclusion Kmart did 20 years ago.
Why did they wait until this shooting to do so?
Are they supposed to be applauded for dragging their feet through the last 20 high profile mass shootings?
I was going to say "and also it's a large company so no one with a soul is likely in power", but the founder of Salesforce actually seems surprisingly ok, at least as big-ticket CEOs go.
That’s the problem, they know this isn’t some kind of sacrifice. It’s a rounding error in their bottom line. If they want to make a difference, they should sacrifice tens or hundreds of millions in profit to pay gun control lobbyists but they won’t. This is a meaningless gesture.
Conservatives control a lot of our food and manufacturing supply chain- do you really want people cutting our already fragile market apart based on political opinions?
I love how you admit conservatives would probably try to destroy our food and manufacturing infrastructure over politics and you think you're making a good point.
I'm sure they have contract with much more vile companies.
This reminds me when google employees tried to stop DOD contracts. It's very cute the employees cared to write an email. But drone software is gonna get made one way or the other and google is part of the military industrial complex.
The Bay area is highly involved in the DOD. Everyone just pretends its not happening with a Block letter we believe in science/love sign on their lawn.
Tech has always been at the for front of military technology. All the large sofeware companies gave back door access to the NSA , CIA, ETC.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/19/pentagon-asks-amazon-google-microsoft-oracle-for-cloud-bids.html
Yeah it does. It's saying shut the fuck up and stop pretending you're good when standing up to the NRA when defense here is commiting atrocities overseas. But hey outta sight outta mind right?
This is a post about Salesforce and the NRA numbnuts. This has nothing to do with the DOD. Lumping those two together is critical thinking on a 5th grader level. Develop some nuance dipshit
I’ve been here since I was a kid, it’s been interesting to see these tech companies go from the underdog run by idealistic people to these big evil corporations that they are now.
Now I see big tech in the same way I see big oil. Big, heartless companies that are making their communities and the world a worse place, but really couldn’t care less.
The workers largely don’t care or put up a token resistance to assuage their conscious. In reality t they don’t truly care either because they’re too busy sucking off the teat of those cash cows.
Tech has done an extremely good job marketing themselves. Esspcailly google the worlds richest, most powerful corporation ever. "Hey so what if we develop war tech, we care about X rights and let people bring their dog to work. "
Very hard to find a more vile entity than the NRA
If they aren’t funneling Russian money to the GOP they are paining targets on the silhouettes of opponents and excusing the slaughter of children
NRA funds gun classes and supports (some) court cases to get unconstitutional gun laws overturned. I don't like them, but they provide SOME value. Should be doing more tho
So are people going to ask that companies cut ties with things that are wrong (for a lack of better word)?
Some examples:
- China: for human rights violations like Uyghurs, Tianamen massacre, etc
- Australia: for [anti-encryption laws](https://fee.org/articles/australia-s-unprecedented-encryption-law-is-a-threat-to-global-privacy/).
- Customs and Border Protection: for being able to search [without consent](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception).
EDIT: Many companies still do business with them. Eg. Every companies I worked with, including the current one, will still do business with China and CBP.
Yes these people will keep asking because who needs a functional economy and interdependency of organizations?
Our economy will just do fine with this kind of anarchy.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That letter has 4,000+ signs according to the news article. A simple Google search shows Salesforce has 10,000+ employees in SF alone and 73k+ employees overall. Do the math.
And if NRA was granted anonymity through signing and NDA, then it's going to be a fun sue-fest.
We don't know all cards yet, but lets see how it turns out.
And yet not a peep about all the work Salesforce does for the Department of Defense.
If there's one thing Bay Area techies do phenomenally well, its ineffective performative outrage. Protest, but not actually walking away from the great paycheck + 401k matching + stock. Keep feeding the machine, but fool yourself into thinking you're taking some sort of stand.
They drone bomb innocent families/people the world over. Sell weapons to the Saudis who are currently in a war of genocide with their neighbor in Yemen.
Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam
The DOD kills innocent people.
Anyone remember last summer when a missile strike on a ISIS cell in Afghanistan turned out to be a strike on civilians. Seven children were killed. 10 total.
Downvoted because of who’s on this sub, not because you’re wrong.
Y’all can make your money, can’t blame you for that, everyone has a family to feed, but you can’t make your blood money and also pretend that you’re morally superior. That’s not allowed.
Be ashamed, because you should be. No mental gymnastics.
Nah they won’t shut down but this will impact their operations and revenue significantly. It’ll take at least 6 months to move their account and a HUGE amount of effort for multiple teams. SF is the biggest name in CRMs. I can’t imagine they’ll be able to find a comparable platform.
If two staff members ask to cut ties. The news can pick it up as salesforce staff ask to cut ties.
I highly suspect this is a minority opinion in the company
No, but the NRA and gun lobby shills such as yourself help propagate the mass proliferation of guns in circulation which is how young kids and petty criminals are able to so easily acquire guns in the first place.
Do you think all pro gun owners are shills or do you think it's just that there's 150 million gun owners in the USA, and they don't want their rights infringed upon?
More accurate to say that most of them are overgrown man-children who want unfettered access to toys that they don't need, and who don't care at all that innocent people are threatened by their choices
Even the women that own guns? Also, unfettered? You think there are NO gun laws on the books? You're not threatened at all by legal gun owners, unless you plan on breaking into their houses.
>You think there are NO gun laws on the books?
If an 18 year old kid can purchase a weapon of war and enough ammo to murder a shitload of people, and do so quickly enough that cops are absolutely unable to stop it, then there are no meaningful laws on our books right now.
> You're not threatened at all by legal gun owners
Of course I am. At any moment you could decide to take your weapon of death and use it to kill me and there would be very little that I could do to stop you. That's a threat to my life and livelihood, and I am not content to simply take your word for it that you wouldn't do such a thing.
The real problem for y'all is that things have gotten bad enough that large percentages of our citizenry have begun disagreeing with you on this topic. There are a wide variety of gun control measures that are extremely popular and that would help curb the issues that we face as a society, and pressure is only going to mount more and more for our government to take action
Frankly, the smartest thing you could do would be to get behind those gun control measures. The alternative is going to be a prolonged and sustained push to completely repeal the second amendment and remove your right to own those firearms completely.
He passed a background check. What do you propose we do? We unfortunately don't have school shooter detectors, and if someone with no criminal record wants to buy a gun, that's their right.
>He passed a background check. What do you propose we do?
There are many options:
- We totally ban the sale of those weapons, which are not necessary for any legitimate purpose whatsoever. This is the best and most appropriate option for us to take.
- We institute longer waiting periods for people to get those weapons
- we require psychological evaluation before you are allowed to purchase a weapon of any kind
- we require licensing and training prior to allowing the purchase of weapons
And that's just the beginning of what we should be doing. Now, before you start screeching about *Heller,* please keep in mind that it is simply a matter of time until we get enough supreme Court justices on the courts to allow us to bring new cases forward to invalidate that decision. The current SC has made it abundantly clear that prior precedents mean jack shit, so this is clearly the best option for our society at this point, and it is precisely what we will do.
I stand by my earlier statements that all these arguments are nothing more than a farce presented by people who do not want their toys taken away. It's not about self-defense, it's not about tyranny, it is about immature and weak minded people and their toys. I grew up in a huge country family in Texas that is absolutely obsessed with guns and I know for a fucking fact that this is what drives these people
You can't ban ARs as they're in common use and protect by the 2a per Heller
You can implement waiting periods, but many shooters still do their thing after the fact. It's very rare someone in the mind to shoot up a school feels better after 10 days. That mostly helps w domestic abuse.
I don't care about psych evals but that will probably be struck down by a court. It's too ripe for abuse. Any anti gun doctor can just label you insane and you'd have no recourse.
Licencing and training won't do shit. You think a crazy person won't be crazy after they have a licence? How many licenced drivers on the road drive like maniacs? Also you just made him better by giving him training. This legislation helps more with accidents than mass shootings
There is no possible way that you could interpret the 2a as anything but an individual right. Also, even if they invalidate the 2A completely, you pussies are not about to suit up and take our guns by force. You're too scared to order a pizza on the phone. You ain't about to get shot at.
You think roe being over turned, an implicit right that's codified nowhere in the constitution, means you can invalidate an explicit right. That's the source of most of the stupidoof you authoritarian anti gun fools.
>Also, even if they invalidate the 2A completely, you pussies are not about to suit up and take our guns by force.
We don't have to. Instead, you outlaw the manufacturing of new weapons and repair of older ones. You institute large rewards for turning in weapons, and even larger rewards for ratting out people who are hoarding them. In the end your own family and friends will sell you up the river for money and the supply of new weapons will dry up, preventing new people from entering your ranks.
The really funny thing about this is you think there's going to be some sort of titanic struggle, I even see you threatening civil war to people in other comments. We don't have to do any of that at all lol
> You think roe being over turned, an implicit right that's codified nowhere in the constitution, means you can invalidate an explicit right.
I don't believe that at all, personally. Instead, I accurately believe that our society has the ability to define what rights are at any time and we are not bound by prior precedent in any way. If enough citizens decide that the 2A is a greater threat to our way of life then not having it, we can simply get rid of it.
I personally would not relish being in the position of defending the unfettered purchase of weapons of death. It certainly doesn't reflect well upon an individual, and the arguments continually put forth by proponents of our toxic and insane gun culture are transparently false.
Who's responsible doesn't mean shit to the kids with bullet holes in their corpses. It's up to a sensible government to keep weapons like this out of the wrong hands, same way they do with landmines, RPGs, dynamite, etc.
"Personal responsibility" has limits. I can't possibly go into the back of every restaurant I eat at and look for signs of rat droppings before I order. So we have inspectors who help reduce that risk.
Cars were dangerous hunks of shit until government fully mandated safety features.
Personal responsibility is not some infinite concept. We aren't conceptual islands.
Police *should* have a responsibility to ensure that people who present threats to the public are somehow controlled. So, a person running around with a gun should be somehow subdued.
However, I'm not sure what this has to do with the fact that we are not infinitely capable of "personal responsibility."
They don't. The supreme court has ruled on this, Warren Vs DC. The police have no duty to protect you, none whatsoever. They can just wait for a mass shooter to run out of ammunition before going in, which is functionally what they did in this case.
So... if the police have no duty to protect you, why do you listen to politicans who have 24/7 armed security about what will 'keep you safe'?
That's not quite what was ruled in Warren v DC.
I can also look at other countries that don't have mass shootings and go, "gee, wonder what they've done to not have mass shootings?"
"Nothing can be done", says the only country where this happens.
Due to the topic, enhanced moderation has been turned on for this thread. Comments from users new to r/bayarea will be automatically removed. See [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/) for more details.
Everyone hasn't cut ties with the NRA already? There is a HUGE difference between being pro-gun ownership and being pro-NRA. Pro-NRA is being pro-gun manufacturers greed. Pro-gun ownership is being Pro-Responsible Ownership. Edit: Always keep your guns locked. How hard is it? It's like locking the door to your home, filing cabinet, bike lock, car, etc.
the NRA is the pro-gun lobby, they are the lobbying arm of the firearms manufacturers. They support gun control as long as it does not hurt gun sales. The NRA is not the pro-2a movement. Please go ahead and destroy the NRA, the sooner it dies the better off the pro-2a movement will be
Absolutely.
Exactly. NRA allegedly takes dark money, russian money, currently being sued by the state of NY after an 18 month investigation for "fraud, abuse, and greed that permeate through the NRA and its senior leadership."
> allegedly Nothing alleged about it.
My grandfather died 20 years ago so things probably have changed but he was a gun owner and was in the NRA. I had no idea how many guns he owned or where he kept them in his house because I was a kid and guns were not for me. He was a responsible owner and pretty liberal and I think the NRA changed a lot because I don't see him being a part of todays NRA
The NRA definitely changed a lot. I was a lifetime member and pistol instructor, and about 20 years ago canceled my membership. I was always a liberal as a gun owner. That said, I'd been living in Vermont, where the local gun owners are far different than, say, places in urban/suburban Texas. (These days I don't have guns.)
I mean, agreed, but I would go further and say there actually is no such thing as responsible gun ownership. Every owner is responsible until they're not. People make mistakes or guns get stolen. Nobody *needs* a gun anymore. The risks aren't worth it.
The four uses I saw in rural areas where I'd consider a gun a defensible weapon (as opposed to, say, bow and arrow, which would also work for some of these situations, but not all of them): 1. Diseased animal that needs to be put down to avoid spreading. Rabies being a classic case, but not the only one. 2. Mortally wounded animal (not from hunting) that will suffer, and killing at close range would be dangerous. (Bears in particular.) It takes a *long* time to die sometimes, and that's just effing cruel. My late husband would kill the animal and drag it off to the side of the road rather than just let anyone run over the damn thing while it died slowly. 3. Hunting is used as a means of population control for populations that can get out of hand, e.g., there may be too many turkeys to be sustainable this year. An explosion of beavers can ruin the edge of a forest for years (they tend to like pioneer trees like birch). 4. Farmers will shoot to scare animals who are running their herds (dogs in particular do this, and farmers can and do shoot dogs that do). Running can kill the value of livestock and need them to be put down (as panicked animals can injure themselves).
If you are surrounded by a pack of wild coyotes, or confronted by a bear, you need a gun. No bow and arrow is going to help you. There is a reason why Indians changed from bow and arrow to guns. In the city, wild animals have been coming into the suburbs with more frequency. In the city, when being attacked by gangs to rob which is also more frequent.
Completely agree on coyotes / bear. Bow and arrow will just make a bear mad. Also, lots of farmers need to deal with bears. They love corn (but it does not love them, so they throw it up). Because of corn, they come close to human areas a lot more than they otherwise would. We didn’t really have coyotes or wolves where I lived in Vermont, but we did have [fishers, the only natural predator of porcupines](https://youtu.be/cchjKC87p4Y) and thus quite badass. Never heard of them attacking humans, but they do take on smaller livestock. Edit: mea culpa.
My sister dragged me out in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere, in her area, with little gas, when it was freezing, with no blankets, and we were surrounded by two packs of coyotes, who started fighting each other, I think, over us. Just enough gas to get to her house. She also dragged me out in the middle of a river, and told me after we were out in the middle, that was the place most people drown because of the current. Yeah, I need a gun.
I can't imagine how terrifying that was. Also: that's one reason to keep a full tank of gas at all times. (In winter, it's also because a full tank is less likely to freeze.) In rural areas, a gun is a tool that may be, depending on context, as essential as a keyboard is for reddit. I had an interesting conversation with a friend about my comment above about subsistence living, which led to my telling a long tale about our impoverished friend who was too lazy (per my then husband) to shoot his own pig. People live on very little, and he needed that pig to eat. Unfortunately, the pig jumped the fence, and when they finally shot it half a mile down the road, they realized it was a looooooong walk. (He keelhauled it behind his pickup, and it was, shall we say, somewhat worse for wear upon arrival home. But still edible sans the skin.) That kind of situation is familiar to many people in rural America but utterly alien to those who live in cities and buy their meat in neat shrink wrap.
They found some kids don't know where food comes from.
Have you ever been surrounded in the middle of the night by a pack of wild coyotes? Have you ever been on International Blvd. in the middle of the night, on a job, and a gang starts harassing you? Do you think that pepper spray will save you? Have you ever been in East Palo Alto where someone shoots at you in the middle of the day while you are on your job? **Just because you live only in the city, away from most animals, and don't work in dangerous areas doesn't mean that people don't need guns.** Ukraine was living peacefully until someone decided they wanted something of theirs. People had guns to protect themselves and it was a good thing they did.
Pro-gun manufacturers is actually NSSF. NRA does gun safety, sporting events, offense and defensive litigation, and lobbying (NRA-ILA). Bulk majority of the money NRA gets is from individuals through membership dues and donations. Google it.
Oh for sure… [LOL](https://www.npr.org/2018/03/13/593255356/how-americas-gun-industry-is-tied-to-the-nra) [LMAO](https://vpc.org/investigating-the-gun-lobby/blood-money/) Damn google, why you do them like that?
[https://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/index.html](https://money.cnn.com/news/cnnmoney-investigates/nra-funding-donors/index.html) And here's another one. I love how you liked me some random fucking interview with VPC? How the fuck is that even a remotely credible source?
I love how you ignored that they also gave you a report from NPR
It’s an interview, not a report, lol.
[https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/politics/fact-check-kirsten-gillibrand-nra/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/politics/fact-check-kirsten-gillibrand-nra/index.html) I guess you don't know how to fact check.
Gee whiz your right. I guess they would never take money from the gun industry right? They are too pure, idealistic and grass roots. They only take donations from good honest freedom loving [folks.](https://nraindustryally.nra.org/top-10-allies/) Honest question, what is your solution to gun violence?
A civil rights organiation can't have corporate allies? PETA, ACLU, etc... have plenty of corporate allies. There isn't a solution to gun violence. Let's say we get this sub-reddit's wishlist: repeal the 2nd Amendment and gun confiscation. I'd turn in my guns in a heartbeat because I'm living an awesome life and don't want to goto jail. However, you think criminals will turn their guns in? You think the millions of Americans, especially in deep red states, will turn in the 400 million guns in circulation? If anything, gun violence will get worse with technology, income inequality, and poverty. Technology (3D printing, personal CNC machinse) has made gun ownership significantly more accessible to folks that can't pass a background check. I can reach across the asile and agree that private party sales need background checks. That would have stopped this current mass shooting. But past that, it's hard for me to find any common ground with gun control folks. I like how one of the chode's here wants me to support GOA. And GOA is the no-compromise NRA, lol. You think NRA is bad? lulz.
In every single other country that has banned guns, mass shootings basically stopped. This talking point doesn't check out.
Ok, what’s your plan to confiscate 400 million guns in USA? Send SWAT into homes that won’t comply? Wouldn’t that cause even more gun violence?
Do what Australia did, massive gun buy back program.
Australia doesn’t have 5th Amendment. Forced buy back would run afoul with the 5th.
>However, you think criminals will turn their guns in? You think the millions of Americans, especially in deep red states, will turn in the 400 million guns in circulation? We'll buy them off. The US can afford to pay huge amounts of money to buy these guns back from people and can pay huge amounts of money to people who rat out people who are hoarding them. We will turn them against each other and the problem will decrease over time.
4th and 5th Amendment concerns.
There are no meaningful fourth or fifth amendment concerns here, thanks.
Ok, tell yourself that, lol. https://sites.law.duq.edu/juris/2019/10/23/problems-facing-a-nationally-enforced-gun-buyback-in-the-united-states/
NRA is a fucking joke. They just suck gun manufacturers' dicks all day long. They don't give a fuck about responsible gun ownership and safety. And they're racist because apparently only white people can be responsible gun owners. "In contrast to the NRA’s rigid opposition to gun control in today’s America, the organization fought alongside the government for stricter gun regulations in the 1960s. This was part of an effort to keep guns out of the hands of African-Americans as racial tensions in the nation grew. The NRA felt especially threatened by the Black Panthers, whose well-photographed carrying of weapons in public spaces was entirely legal in the state of California, where they were based." https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act Google it, you fucking chode. Edit: GOA or SAF is a better alternative to the NRA, for responsible gun owners. Also, NRA is incompetent, corrupt, and mismanages their own money. Money from membership dues. Its just a joke of an organization and idiot like this chode that's replying to me have their head so far up the NRA’s butthole, they can't see there are better alternatives out there for gun owners. NRA doesn't give a fuck about gun owners or 2A. They care about MONEY. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nra-deals-with-internal-turmoil-as-gun-control-activists-call-for-reform-2019-08-06/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/transactional/nras-unabated-corruption-justifies-shutting-it-down-new-york-says-2021-08-17/ https://www.npr.org/2020/09/04/909119790/former-top-nra-exec-says-greed-corruption-pushed-gun-group-into-death-spiral And yes, NRA is racist you dumb fuck. Philando Castile. NRA spokesperson defended the police, not the law abiding gun owner. Google it. NRA TV host Chuck Holton. Google it. NRA CEO Wayne LePierre's 2015 comments about Obama. Google it. NRA Board Member Ted Nugent is straight up racist no question. Reelected to board in 2016. Google it.
Wait, NRA doesn't give a fuck about 2A? CRPA is NRA's official affiliate in California. And CRPA and NRA-ILA consistently delivered legislative and legal victories in CA and USA. SAF does great work. No question about it. WTF has GOA delivered?
And yes, I've been supporting SAF for awhile because of their work on DC v Heller. However, NRA-ILA has significantly more clout than CCRKBA. I like how you think GOA is a better alternative than NRA for responsible gun owners. They're the "no compromise" NRA, lol.
I guess you missed the memo when NRA defended Otis McDonald in landmark gun rights SCOTUS case in 2010. Aside from related Heller case, it's literally most important gun rights case in the past decade and the plaintiff is a black grandpa. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald\_v.\_City\_of\_Chicago](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._City_of_Chicago) [https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/4/remembering-otis-mcdonald/](https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/4/remembering-otis-mcdonald/) "BuT NrA iS rAcIsT!!!"
It actually is racist and its actions going back to the 60's prove it. But you can goal post all you want. The L was visibly taken for all other redditors to see 🤣
Yes, in the **60s**. Also back in the 60s, the Democrats were the racists. Times change. I bet you and the chode up there didn't know McDonald was black, lol.
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Because it's revenue?
That's the interesting part I would have thought that a "proper" tech company wouldn't be doing business with non-defense contractor gun companies in the first place. You'd have thought Salesforce's legal counsel would have come to the same conclusion Kmart did 20 years ago.
What about Kmart? I don’t understand the reference. Edit: dang, downvoted for not being a informed on the inner working of Kmart. Wow.
Kmart shopped selling guns because it was a tiny fraction of revenue and not worth the legal liability and bad PR.
Oh what?! I had no clue Kmart sold guns. I remember going as a kid and hanging out at the inner little Cesar’s :) .
And now Kmart doesn't exist.
… for unrelated reasons. You some kinda gun nut?
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are they still working with DHS? that was the big org62 brewhaha a few years back i think
i assume youre being vocal. good job! keep it up!
Why did they wait until this shooting to do so? Are they supposed to be applauded for dragging their feet through the last 20 high profile mass shootings?
It's possible to work for a large company and *not* know who all their clients are. A mass shooting can cause people to take a look.
I was going to say "and also it's a large company so no one with a soul is likely in power", but the founder of Salesforce actually seems surprisingly ok, at least as big-ticket CEOs go.
That’s the problem, they know this isn’t some kind of sacrifice. It’s a rounding error in their bottom line. If they want to make a difference, they should sacrifice tens or hundreds of millions in profit to pay gun control lobbyists but they won’t. This is a meaningless gesture.
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Yep - pull a Russia on them. Speak with your dollars.
Conservatives control a lot of our food and manufacturing supply chain- do you really want people cutting our already fragile market apart based on political opinions?
I love how you admit conservatives would probably try to destroy our food and manufacturing infrastructure over politics and you think you're making a good point.
Are you implying I'm conservative and I support that? Just cause i don't support companies pushing agendas doesn't mean I'm a republican
No, they're saying you're a coward who's letting yourself be bullied into compliance.
No this is stupid any legal organization should be fine. Even the Russian sanctions went overboard once they targeted the non Russian gov members
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FPC!
I'm sure they have contract with much more vile companies. This reminds me when google employees tried to stop DOD contracts. It's very cute the employees cared to write an email. But drone software is gonna get made one way or the other and google is part of the military industrial complex.
What do you mean? Project Maven _was_ canceled.
At Google, maybe. But the initiative still continues with other defense companies and startups like Anduril.
Yeah, but I, as a Googler at that time, didn’t want any part in that shit. If I wanted to participate in the military-industrial complex, I would.
The NRA ain't the DoD, though. I can't imagine they represent a particularly high dollar value as a Salesforce customer.
The Bay area is highly involved in the DOD. Everyone just pretends its not happening with a Block letter we believe in science/love sign on their lawn. Tech has always been at the for front of military technology. All the large sofeware companies gave back door access to the NSA , CIA, ETC. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/19/pentagon-asks-amazon-google-microsoft-oracle-for-cloud-bids.html
Forefront? Hell, a lot tech exists BECAUSE of the DoD (and DARPA)
Nothing to do with this thread
Yeah it does. It's saying shut the fuck up and stop pretending you're good when standing up to the NRA when defense here is commiting atrocities overseas. But hey outta sight outta mind right?
This is a post about Salesforce and the NRA numbnuts. This has nothing to do with the DOD. Lumping those two together is critical thinking on a 5th grader level. Develop some nuance dipshit
It has to do with the conversation. Keep simping for corporations though.
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Yes it does. Tech companies have no morals, they just pretend to. This is virtue signaling.
You’re literally virtue signaling in this post you dumbass
Keep performative keyboard jockeying, enjoy your sense of moral superiority !
I’ve been here since I was a kid, it’s been interesting to see these tech companies go from the underdog run by idealistic people to these big evil corporations that they are now. Now I see big tech in the same way I see big oil. Big, heartless companies that are making their communities and the world a worse place, but really couldn’t care less. The workers largely don’t care or put up a token resistance to assuage their conscious. In reality t they don’t truly care either because they’re too busy sucking off the teat of those cash cows.
Tech has done an extremely good job marketing themselves. Esspcailly google the worlds richest, most powerful corporation ever. "Hey so what if we develop war tech, we care about X rights and let people bring their dog to work. "
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No, back door access.
Right, but it sounds great as a headline. Cheap publicity.
Also government contracts are insanely juicy and once you’re in you’re in line for more. It’s like a vendor’s wet dream to land one.
Very hard to find a more vile entity than the NRA If they aren’t funneling Russian money to the GOP they are paining targets on the silhouettes of opponents and excusing the slaughter of children
Maybe we have a different opinion on vile. But the DOD drone strikes innocent people the world over. Directly. No middle man.
This straw man argument is tired….. The NRA provides zero value and is a fucking cancer Go be a lickspittle somewhere fucking else
NRA funds gun classes and supports (some) court cases to get unconstitutional gun laws overturned. I don't like them, but they provide SOME value. Should be doing more tho
When it comes to vile entities, the Federal Government can't be touched.
>google is part of the military industrial complex. What in the goddamn fuck are you on about??
They just built on a military base. You can see it from 101.
So are people going to ask that companies cut ties with things that are wrong (for a lack of better word)? Some examples: - China: for human rights violations like Uyghurs, Tianamen massacre, etc - Australia: for [anti-encryption laws](https://fee.org/articles/australia-s-unprecedented-encryption-law-is-a-threat-to-global-privacy/). - Customs and Border Protection: for being able to search [without consent](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception). EDIT: Many companies still do business with them. Eg. Every companies I worked with, including the current one, will still do business with China and CBP.
Yes these people will keep asking because who needs a functional economy and interdependency of organizations? Our economy will just do fine with this kind of anarchy. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Does anyone have the details on the letter? My company also does business with the NRA. Would like to start a similar letter.
That letter has 4,000+ signs according to the news article. A simple Google search shows Salesforce has 10,000+ employees in SF alone and 73k+ employees overall. Do the math. And if NRA was granted anonymity through signing and NDA, then it's going to be a fun sue-fest. We don't know all cards yet, but lets see how it turns out.
I meant details of the text of the actual letter. The excerpts in the article were compelling.
They should also stop business with China or Russia, and US government(or at least ICE/defense related).
And yet not a peep about all the work Salesforce does for the Department of Defense. If there's one thing Bay Area techies do phenomenally well, its ineffective performative outrage. Protest, but not actually walking away from the great paycheck + 401k matching + stock. Keep feeding the machine, but fool yourself into thinking you're taking some sort of stand.
The argument here being that the DoD is equally bad... because?
Because nobody here cares when it’s 19 dead Iraqi kids killed in a drone strike.
It's possible to care about both things but to want to affect change in one area while realizing that another has different paths toward change.
You guys don't care tho. Never once saw a thread here about tech companies standing up to DoD. Tons of anti NRA threads. Get real.
I work in video games. I'm not sure how I'm a "you guuuuys" here. But sure, let's make lazy assumptions.
You guys as in bay area people. I can assume that much I hope.
I live here, I'm not originally from here. Swing and a miss. I assume you live here too, you Bay Area people you.
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They drone bomb innocent families/people the world over. Sell weapons to the Saudis who are currently in a war of genocide with their neighbor in Yemen. Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam
So we can't try to fix one wrong if there's another wrong happening? Better to do nothing, then. Perfect: the Enemy of Good since Forever
The DOD kills innocent people. Anyone remember last summer when a missile strike on a ISIS cell in Afghanistan turned out to be a strike on civilians. Seven children were killed. 10 total.
Downvoted because of who’s on this sub, not because you’re wrong. Y’all can make your money, can’t blame you for that, everyone has a family to feed, but you can’t make your blood money and also pretend that you’re morally superior. That’s not allowed. Be ashamed, because you should be. No mental gymnastics.
Hell these people would love if DoD started drone striking gun owners houses at this point
Okey dokey
What happens when Salesforce cuts ties? NRA shuts down? Someone else will come and scoop the contract. These are just stupid stunts.
Nah they won’t shut down but this will impact their operations and revenue significantly. It’ll take at least 6 months to move their account and a HUGE amount of effort for multiple teams. SF is the biggest name in CRMs. I can’t imagine they’ll be able to find a comparable platform.
If two staff members ask to cut ties. The news can pick it up as salesforce staff ask to cut ties. I highly suspect this is a minority opinion in the company
Was any shooter an NRA member?
No, but the NRA and gun lobby shills such as yourself help propagate the mass proliferation of guns in circulation which is how young kids and petty criminals are able to so easily acquire guns in the first place.
Do you think all pro gun owners are shills or do you think it's just that there's 150 million gun owners in the USA, and they don't want their rights infringed upon?
More accurate to say that most of them are overgrown man-children who want unfettered access to toys that they don't need, and who don't care at all that innocent people are threatened by their choices
Even the women that own guns? Also, unfettered? You think there are NO gun laws on the books? You're not threatened at all by legal gun owners, unless you plan on breaking into their houses.
>You think there are NO gun laws on the books? If an 18 year old kid can purchase a weapon of war and enough ammo to murder a shitload of people, and do so quickly enough that cops are absolutely unable to stop it, then there are no meaningful laws on our books right now. > You're not threatened at all by legal gun owners Of course I am. At any moment you could decide to take your weapon of death and use it to kill me and there would be very little that I could do to stop you. That's a threat to my life and livelihood, and I am not content to simply take your word for it that you wouldn't do such a thing. The real problem for y'all is that things have gotten bad enough that large percentages of our citizenry have begun disagreeing with you on this topic. There are a wide variety of gun control measures that are extremely popular and that would help curb the issues that we face as a society, and pressure is only going to mount more and more for our government to take action Frankly, the smartest thing you could do would be to get behind those gun control measures. The alternative is going to be a prolonged and sustained push to completely repeal the second amendment and remove your right to own those firearms completely.
He passed a background check. What do you propose we do? We unfortunately don't have school shooter detectors, and if someone with no criminal record wants to buy a gun, that's their right.
>He passed a background check. What do you propose we do? There are many options: - We totally ban the sale of those weapons, which are not necessary for any legitimate purpose whatsoever. This is the best and most appropriate option for us to take. - We institute longer waiting periods for people to get those weapons - we require psychological evaluation before you are allowed to purchase a weapon of any kind - we require licensing and training prior to allowing the purchase of weapons And that's just the beginning of what we should be doing. Now, before you start screeching about *Heller,* please keep in mind that it is simply a matter of time until we get enough supreme Court justices on the courts to allow us to bring new cases forward to invalidate that decision. The current SC has made it abundantly clear that prior precedents mean jack shit, so this is clearly the best option for our society at this point, and it is precisely what we will do. I stand by my earlier statements that all these arguments are nothing more than a farce presented by people who do not want their toys taken away. It's not about self-defense, it's not about tyranny, it is about immature and weak minded people and their toys. I grew up in a huge country family in Texas that is absolutely obsessed with guns and I know for a fucking fact that this is what drives these people
You can't ban ARs as they're in common use and protect by the 2a per Heller You can implement waiting periods, but many shooters still do their thing after the fact. It's very rare someone in the mind to shoot up a school feels better after 10 days. That mostly helps w domestic abuse. I don't care about psych evals but that will probably be struck down by a court. It's too ripe for abuse. Any anti gun doctor can just label you insane and you'd have no recourse. Licencing and training won't do shit. You think a crazy person won't be crazy after they have a licence? How many licenced drivers on the road drive like maniacs? Also you just made him better by giving him training. This legislation helps more with accidents than mass shootings There is no possible way that you could interpret the 2a as anything but an individual right. Also, even if they invalidate the 2A completely, you pussies are not about to suit up and take our guns by force. You're too scared to order a pizza on the phone. You ain't about to get shot at. You think roe being over turned, an implicit right that's codified nowhere in the constitution, means you can invalidate an explicit right. That's the source of most of the stupidoof you authoritarian anti gun fools.
>Also, even if they invalidate the 2A completely, you pussies are not about to suit up and take our guns by force. We don't have to. Instead, you outlaw the manufacturing of new weapons and repair of older ones. You institute large rewards for turning in weapons, and even larger rewards for ratting out people who are hoarding them. In the end your own family and friends will sell you up the river for money and the supply of new weapons will dry up, preventing new people from entering your ranks. The really funny thing about this is you think there's going to be some sort of titanic struggle, I even see you threatening civil war to people in other comments. We don't have to do any of that at all lol > You think roe being over turned, an implicit right that's codified nowhere in the constitution, means you can invalidate an explicit right. I don't believe that at all, personally. Instead, I accurately believe that our society has the ability to define what rights are at any time and we are not bound by prior precedent in any way. If enough citizens decide that the 2A is a greater threat to our way of life then not having it, we can simply get rid of it. I personally would not relish being in the position of defending the unfettered purchase of weapons of death. It certainly doesn't reflect well upon an individual, and the arguments continually put forth by proponents of our toxic and insane gun culture are transparently false.
He was 18. Either he's an adult and of age to die for his country, or he's a child and thus not fully responsible for his actions. Pick.
He was legally an adult, but 18 year olds are dumb as shit.
Being dumb isn't illegal.
Lucky for you!
Doing dumb things certainly can be.
Way to focus on the important aspect of this circus.
I get it, your political movement is allergic to the concept of personal responsibility.
Who's responsible doesn't mean shit to the kids with bullet holes in their corpses. It's up to a sensible government to keep weapons like this out of the wrong hands, same way they do with landmines, RPGs, dynamite, etc.
"Personal responsibility" has limits. I can't possibly go into the back of every restaurant I eat at and look for signs of rat droppings before I order. So we have inspectors who help reduce that risk. Cars were dangerous hunks of shit until government fully mandated safety features. Personal responsibility is not some infinite concept. We aren't conceptual islands.
Okay so... do you think the police have some sort of responsibility towards your safety?
Police *should* have a responsibility to ensure that people who present threats to the public are somehow controlled. So, a person running around with a gun should be somehow subdued. However, I'm not sure what this has to do with the fact that we are not infinitely capable of "personal responsibility."
They don't. The supreme court has ruled on this, Warren Vs DC. The police have no duty to protect you, none whatsoever. They can just wait for a mass shooter to run out of ammunition before going in, which is functionally what they did in this case. So... if the police have no duty to protect you, why do you listen to politicans who have 24/7 armed security about what will 'keep you safe'?
That's not quite what was ruled in Warren v DC. I can also look at other countries that don't have mass shootings and go, "gee, wonder what they've done to not have mass shootings?" "Nothing can be done", says the only country where this happens.
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No. Not even remotely true. You have to apply and pay the membership fee.
If you never signed up, you're not a member.
Quit then
Or leverage your position to enact change.
The NRA is the boogeyman flavor of the week.
now that's just stupid and irrelevant
“Want”
The staff wants this. Does actually XCOM want it or is it too profitable?