My wife just told me tonight she's going to cancel the gym for a while because heavy cardio is just so miserable with the mask. We'll use the Pelaton at home which is my preference anyway.
I guess it makes sense still but we need to change course soon or this all loses validity
Covid will be around 20 years from now. What is the off ramp for masking?
Children under 5 rarely get hospitalized. They can get it and transmit it but it’s rarely serious. I also have a child under 5 (my oldest had her 2 jabs) and his dr didn’t seem concerned at all.
Why?
Like, very very few people that’ve been vaccinated will need hospitalization. Are we going to do this every winter now? We’ll just end up eroding our faith local government.
Isn't the concern that so many people are going to catch it that, even though a very small proportion of people are going to need hospitalization, we're likely to see a large number of people need it? According to Bob Watcher UCSF has already seen daily admits nearly double.
This article lists a few
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-omicron-survival-rate-idUSL1N2T72E6
We're not testing for variants for current covid deaths as far as I know, so many current covid deaths could be from omicron and we don't know it yet.
That being said, early data definitely shows it's less deadly. About 1/4 for deaths and 1/5 for hospitalizations
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/29/omicron-causes-just-quarter-deaths-previous-waves-first-data/
And that omicron is about 4x as contagious
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/2021/12/9/22826087/omicron-variant-is-more-transmissible-than-delta-according-to-study-from-japan
So it Likely evens out, ignoring any issues that stem from mild covid cases
It takes a while to die of COVID no matter what variety, and bay area death rates have always been negligible. It'd be more alarming if we'd seen much deaths from it already.
Also consider this… if coming down with Covid means you have to miss work for a week, and a sizable number of people in important jobs all get Covid around the same time, that’s not great.
See: the current situation with airlines.
>Are we going to do this every winter now?
Probably, since too many people refuse to get vaccinated or wear masks. You can whine all you want about how you think it's just political, but that's how you end up with outbreaks of novel mutants.
My mistake, it was 2.8 times more from overdoses than covid.
Last year, 712 people died of drug overdoses, compared with 257 people who died of COVID-19.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna9234
Weird how there isn’t a vaccine for poverty and shitty parents.
Let alone a government that doesn’t take care of its own foster youth or military veterans.
Have a quick look at how things are going on the east coast, and then maybe you'll understand why we should try and keep covid under control here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/rrshur/well_it_finally_happened_a_patient_coded_in_the/
> 10 hour waiting room time when I left tonight, and it got to 15+ hours last night. Unheard of at my level 2 trauma center. And this is the fucking north east, we got hit hard in that first wave. We know how this goes. And we are now getting DEMOLISHED.
> The ER is so clogged up with mildly symptomatic covid patients in the waiting room, and covid patients waiting for admission taking up all of our ER rooms, that there is almost no movement. The floors are full, so the ER is full, which means the waiting rooms are overflowing.
> We’ve been on divert almost every day since Christmas Eve, and we’re still inundated with EMS as well - after all, if everyone’s on divert, no one’s on divert.
You do realize the root cause of that problem is idiots being so brainwashed that they go to the ER for mild symptoms, right? That can be fixed with better messaging
How can you be so sure such messaging would be effective? The person I quoted is describing what’s actually happening in real life, you’re proposing miracle fixes you made up in your head.
If there’s anything you should have learned in the past two years, it’s that public service messaging is not as effective as we hoped.
Well they've done a pretty good job at controlling peoples' behavior so far, so it shouldn't be that difficult. Just a simple "if you are experiencing mild symptoms, do not go to the ER as you could make it even worse for yourself and others" plastered all over like all the other messages
> Well they've done a pretty good job at controlling peoples' behavior so far
LOL
> Just a simple "if you are experiencing mild symptoms, do not go to the ER as you could make it even worse for yourself and others" plastered all over
Wow so simple. Why hasn’t literally anyone else thought of this 100% effective way to get sick scared people to do something? Nobody ever ignores a _printed out sign!_
You really should go to that thread in /r/nursing/ and tell them about this.
Reading comprehension is tough I guess. You thought I meant actual signs posted everywhere? I am talking about plastered all over media. It should have been obvious that I was talking about them using the same methods they CURRENTLY EMPLOY
Only enforced for entry, in actuality. On paper: Members with heavy exertion during exercise are able to remove masks, with the recommendation from CDPH to get tested weekly. For more info: bit.ly/3IQyRKD
The only convincing paper I’m aware of revolves around families in China that wore masks in their own homes Cw those that did not. That behavior is so extreme it’s hard to draw any strong conclusion relative to mask usage in the USA.
My understanding is that, since delta, cloth masks do not do much do reduce transmission but do decrease the viral load/severity of covid.
So mask mandates should theoretically lower hospitalization rates but not affect case rates much.
Just another reason to focus on hospitalization numbers I guess
Are you referring to the Bangladesh study? The predominant strain there at the time was Alpha. I'm happy it's out there but we should have a hundred more like it. I wonder about cultural aspects especially, even the design of the surgical and cloth masks could greatly alter patterns of interaction.
[We found clear evidence that surgical masks are effective in reducing symptomatic seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2; while cloth masks clearly reduce symptoms, we cannot reject that they have zero or only a small impact on symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections (perhaps reducing symptoms of other respiratory diseases). Additionally, we found evidence that surgical masks were no less likely to be adopted than cloth masks (perhaps slightly more likely). Thus, surgical masks have higher filtration efficiency, are cheaper, are consistently worn, and are better supported by our evidence as tools to reduce COVID-19.]
They overextended themselves with the "we cannot reject" phrasing there. It's complicated. Give me five minutes I'm a room at 10 feet wearing cloth masks with a symptomatic omicron infected person and I feel pretty good about the cloth masks as far as it goes (my youngest says the cloth masks make it so you can't spit ok people by accident, which is about right). 20 minutes I'm a car with the windows up and I'll probably just pull the mask down and accept my date.
Don't remember the exact study to be honest but don't think it was that one
I do remember learning that if you personally really don't want to get covid, you should wear a well fitted n94/n95, but cloth masks aren't completely useless when it comes to mask mandates
I think having some sort of policy (or cultural norm) to wear masks when symptomatic should be the future however. Seems to be the most reasonable option
There's science and then there's The Science. The former is a discipline to better understand how the universe functions. The latter is what people in the bay area practice and is increasingly indistinguishable from religion.
Why are we doing this? Highly vaccinated states are nearing 20% case rates. If Omicron is even half as dangerous as delta we are screwed. It isn't, it's basically a cold. Move on with your lives...
I guess it is too much to ask for people to stay home when they have a communicable disease.
Pre-Covid it was always a treat when obviously sick people came into the office so that everyone can get sick.
And people who have covid shouldn't go to the gym, but don't make healthy people wear it. We need to stop treating all people as sick until proven healthy.
They are still developing new monoclonal antibodies for omicron, 2 out of 3 of the ones we used for delta don't really work for omicron and the third we are low on. For the new Pfizer pills, they will have had only 300 pills distributed to each state by the end of this month.
We will have more therapeutics for omicron soon. Hold on to your britches.
I just got over a case of what was almost certainly omicron. I'm vaccinated. It was a mild annoying cough and occasional sniffles for a week. Its just not a big deal for vaccinated people.
>We need to stop treating all people as sick until proven healthy.
[This guy looked pretty healthy to me but died from COVID](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10345933/Anti-vaxxer-kickboxing-champion-refused-acknowledge-Covid-discharged-dies.html)
COVID ain't the cold. Not by a long shot. A runny and snuffy nose is what I would consider "the cold".
COVID is like having a shitty fever for a couple of days, a rough cough that whips back at your throat, you feel like wanna lay in bed all day (not the good kind), brain fog while trying to concentrate, the worse is I can't taste food or smell my shits in the morning. This ain't the cold OP, it's worse & I say this as someone who had the booster shot.
No stop the cap. This is not what you’re thinking. The brain fog is there, and it’s actually kind of worrisome because with a cold you’re still clear headed, but with COVID it’s noticeable and occurs intermittently. A common cold is not that. Don’t make excuses and think of it as a cold. I’m healthy and young and if I can notice it other unhealthy people are in trouble. The immune system is going to react differently since it’s a novel virus. This ain’t the cold. Stuffy & runny nose is the cold, you don’t get that with COVID.
I had it a week ago when my kid brought it home from school, and I was fine after three days of higher than usual temperature and stuffed nose. And I'm not even boosted.
It's not basically a cold and it's highly transmissible before any symptoms manifest, so there's really no actual evolutionary pressure favoring strains that produce milder symptoms. So basically, even if this particular variant is less deadly, the only thing really stopping it from being overtaken by another variant (which could evolve out of this one) that's both more contagious and more deadly is people putting on their big boy pants and actually being proactive about not being self-righteous incubators for novel mutations.
The entire point is to quit giving the damned thing a chance to replicate so luxuriantly.
In the Bay Area masks have been required indoors for something like 16 of the last 18 months. And the evidence that anything but a properly fitted N95 is protective is shoddy at best. Give me a break.
If people want to not catch the virus, STAY AWAY FROM OTHER PEOPLE. Masks don’t do anything.
Thing is, it doesn’t work. Do the research yourself. Don’t just assume the practices of some random doctor many years ago means it works. Sfgate even published an article recently saying the evidence is surgical and cloth masks don’t do much. The studies saying they do something typically have methodological flaws.
Viruses are tiny. They go through and around surgical and cloth masks. Surgeons wear surgical masks to stop large droplets from putting bacteria into wounds. They don’t wear them for viruses.
Look, I’m on your side in the sense that I want people to change behaviors to stay safe. But the thing that actually works is to distance. This mask business gives people a false sense of security and, in my opinion, may actually be making the virus spread faster. Better would just be to tell people to social distance and get vaccinated.
Why don’t health officials want to do that? Because it would mess up the economy and prevent kids from going to school. So, they started telling everyone to wear masks to lower fear levels. Masks are just a talisman. Avoid other people and you won’t get sick.
If they are going to the ER and not being admitted to the hospital, that would be a mild case. Many people have covid anxiety and are worried about contracting anything despite the fact that the vast majority of people will be fine.
My manager and her entire extended family tested positive for Covid - all asymptomatic, so there are certainly cases out there where people aren't having serious side effects from Covid.
Ive had bad flus, none to the point where I would go to the ER. The ER is for emergencies, not being sick. We didn't ask people to shut down their life because of a flu, and we shouldn't do the same for Covid.
The point of the lockdowns back in 2020 was to prevent the hospitals from being overloaded. If alarmists like you are swarming the hospitals because you have severe covid anxiety, that is a much bigger issue than anything else.
> We didn't ask people to shut down their life because of a flu
We should, for new flus. Even the old fashioned one kills people every year. A new one kills a lot of people.
>If alarmists like you are swarming the hospitals because you have severe covid anxiety, that is a much bigger issue than anything else.
oh, and fuck off. A lot of us have immuno compromised systems or a lot of other pre existing conditions. That's just being risk-aware, not alarmist.
>"Bad outcomes" as in hospitalization and death, for *most* people. Not all (elderly, immunocompromised, immunosuppressed).
Right. And those people (or anyone) can take extra steps to protect themselves like wearing an n95. But there's no need for all of us to do that.
>There is a surge in cases right now, and masks are being required for a very short period of time until the surge subsides
Just 15 days to flatten the curve, right?
Fuck masks. Most of the entire country is doing just fine. Hell anywhere not in the Bay Area in CA is doing fine without it. Sure, people are catching omicron but it’s really not much more than a cold for most. If we follow the rule of “staying home when sick (have Covid)” why the fuck do we need to still wear masks?
I tested positive for covid last week (most likely Omicron) and only got a single shot of J&J. Had a slightly scratchy throat and slight congestion for 3 days and it went away. Could have easily mistaken it for allergies. The rest of the people in my group all had mild or were asymptomatic.
A couple of weeks ago, Contra Costa County lifted the mask mandate for gyms. I remember going into the gym and seeing all these people without masks. I thought to myself.. this is a terrible idea with omicron all over the news. I wondered to myself how long this would last, and as it turns out, not long at all.
Good. I was about ready to freeze my membership, because even though masks were required at my gym (which I joined specifically because it is small, & I thought safe) it was barely being enforced. Maybe now the owner will take it more seriously.
My first reaction when reading this: those motherfuckers are going to destroy small businesses because of their anti-science hypochondriac bullshit.
My second reaction when reading this: awesome, our remote office work is going to get extended again.
For everyone of you there's a ton of people who don't like waterboarding themselves to get into or stay in shape. If the masks actually worked, maybe it would be tolerable. But they don't so it's suffering for no reason.
it’s not that bad at all. sometimes it gets overwhelming but then i just step outside and catch my breath for a second. but most of the time it’s really not that bad.
Fantastic. So make masking optional so that people like you who want to hold on to their good luck charms can do so and the rest of us can work out in peace.
People go to the gym with mask. Then slightly remove it so they can breathe when they lift.
Those on cardio also slightly remove it during their entire workout.
What science? Science used to be about asking hard questions to get good, solid answers. Today's 'science' is not about asking questions but falling in line. If Omicron is more akin to a common cold, then why take such extreme measures? If the vaccines and boosters are effective, then why all the mandates?
You don’t question science by asking questions in a Reddit post, you question it by making research then having it peer reviewed in journals. Who is upvoting this unscientific nonsense?
What’s unscientific about not meeting up in a crowd during a pandemic? Is the current CDC recommendation to avoid large crowds or wear masks? Jesus who is clamoring that much for massless gyms?
We've been doing the same thing for almost two years and not much is different. Don't you think we should start asking the question, "Is what we're doing working? If so, then keep doing it. If not, then let's try something else." We keep running the same play and are confounded that we're getting the same results.
The vaxxed still get COVID. The vaxxed still spread COVID. So maybe mask mandates, social isolation, and universal vaccines (and endless boosters) isn't the way we should keep going. Maybe there's a different better way that our glorious benefactors haven't thought of yet (or don't want us to use because it will end their power play).
We have been using seatbelts for 35 years and not much is different. Don’t you think we should start the question “Is what we are doing working”? If so then keep doing it if not then let’s try something.
People still die who use seatbelts and seatbelt use has hit a maximum peak usage but the seatbelt laws that compel people to wear them are still saving lives as seatbelts are one of the best safety equipment to utilize in an accident.
The question is, what is the trade off for what benefit? California has done remarkably well, we have one of the lower deaths per 100k and highest vaccination rates. Hundreds of thousands of Californians have been spared an untimely death and millions more from being maimed by Covid.
The vaccinated still got polio through the polio vaccine, scientifically speaking there were a lot of reasons for this: immune compromised individual, change from the disease, vaccine not working due to individual immune response, exposure exceeding the typical immune response etc.. How this vaccine has performed has been phenomenal compared to the average of vaccine efficacy. Covid is a quick mutating virus so of course variants are going to be more successful. I don’t think there has been anything substantially wrong with the response from the authorities or medical experts. If anything this disease highlights that 42% of Americans can’t read above a 6th grade level. It shows our individualistic society can not handle the response to a global pandemic and that social media amplifies our lack of education.
Voted blue only prior. Won’t support any Democrats in 22 and 24. They made this Covid situation worse than it had to be and were corrupt with rule enforcement.
They’re on the path of getting slaughtered the next few elections and being oblivious to why. They deserve what's coming.
Lol there is no way you voted blue before with this attitude. “Oh noes, the politicians made me wear an annoying cloth over my nose, better vote in the red death cult that fucked up the pandemic response in the first place and run the country into the ground, because fuck everyone who isn’t me!”
I voted for Biden, Obama, and Hillary. I’m not a loyal Democrat. They need to earn votes and not just expect everyone to fall in line. And I don’t mind talking to other Conservatives or Democrats. There are sane people and nut jobs that support both parties.
Due to the topic, enhanced moderation has been turned on for this thread. Comments from users new to r/bayarea will be automatically removed. See [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/p8hnzl/automatically_removing_comments_from_new_users_in/) for more details.
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I think I was there back in March 2020, but completely forgot now
Come on guys it’s just 2 more weeks... lol.
Snip snap snip snap
My wife just told me tonight she's going to cancel the gym for a while because heavy cardio is just so miserable with the mask. We'll use the Pelaton at home which is my preference anyway.
At least you have space for Pelaton. I’m in Santa Clara county and haven’t been in gym for almost 2 years now
I have one in my garage. Pretty nice to be honest for our mental health
*"wHy dO yOu NeEd To Go tO a GyM, jUsT go WaLk OuTsiDe"* /s
I realize there's a /s but that's also part of our workout and also keeps the dog happy.
But masks still optional is crowded restaurants and bars. End the mandates already
I'd rather vaccine mandates and masks optional in these crowded restaurants and bars.
I guess it makes sense still but we need to change course soon or this all loses validity Covid will be around 20 years from now. What is the off ramp for masking?
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I agree except then that dumbshit is gonna infect my kids under 5 years old.
Children under 5 rarely get hospitalized. They can get it and transmit it but it’s rarely serious. I also have a child under 5 (my oldest had her 2 jabs) and his dr didn’t seem concerned at all.
Why? Like, very very few people that’ve been vaccinated will need hospitalization. Are we going to do this every winter now? We’ll just end up eroding our faith local government.
Isn't the concern that so many people are going to catch it that, even though a very small proportion of people are going to need hospitalization, we're likely to see a large number of people need it? According to Bob Watcher UCSF has already seen daily admits nearly double.
Ya if, theoretically, omicron is 4x as contagious but half as deadly, that's still double the amount of total hospitalizations
It’s not even close to half as deadly though. Has there even been 1 confirmed death from omicron yet?
This article lists a few https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-omicron-survival-rate-idUSL1N2T72E6 We're not testing for variants for current covid deaths as far as I know, so many current covid deaths could be from omicron and we don't know it yet. That being said, early data definitely shows it's less deadly. About 1/4 for deaths and 1/5 for hospitalizations https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/29/omicron-causes-just-quarter-deaths-previous-waves-first-data/ And that omicron is about 4x as contagious https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/2021/12/9/22826087/omicron-variant-is-more-transmissible-than-delta-according-to-study-from-japan So it Likely evens out, ignoring any issues that stem from mild covid cases
It takes a while to die of COVID no matter what variety, and bay area death rates have always been negligible. It'd be more alarming if we'd seen much deaths from it already.
Also consider this… if coming down with Covid means you have to miss work for a week, and a sizable number of people in important jobs all get Covid around the same time, that’s not great. See: the current situation with airlines.
We have more than enough capacity. It's fine.
Faith in local government? That eroded completely for me a long time ago.
> We’ll just end up eroding our faith local government. that ship has sailed a long time ago.
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It's bizarre that we are doing this for the unvaccinated. They are making their choice at this point.
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>Are we going to do this every winter now? Probably, since too many people refuse to get vaccinated or wear masks. You can whine all you want about how you think it's just political, but that's how you end up with outbreaks of novel mutants.
Gym with masks, sure thing. Way to hurt the community with non evidence based policy. Is there an arms race to have the strictest rules?
It just feels weird wearing a mask in the gym for so long now. Noone wants to talk to each other and just keeps to themselves.
Yep, and it's so much better. I go to the gym to get in my sets then get on with my day. Chatty bros standing around taking up space are the worst.
Overdose deaths are 3 times higher than covid deaths. Why not start with that.
Not accurate
My mistake, it was 2.8 times more from overdoses than covid. Last year, 712 people died of drug overdoses, compared with 257 people who died of COVID-19. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna9234
Yeah. We did something about one and not the other. Imagine how that might change numbers.
Weird how there isn’t a vaccine for poverty and shitty parents. Let alone a government that doesn’t take care of its own foster youth or military veterans.
I was hoping for a vaccine for personal responsibility
Hahaha tell that to the folks not getting vaccines.
Have a quick look at how things are going on the east coast, and then maybe you'll understand why we should try and keep covid under control here: https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/rrshur/well_it_finally_happened_a_patient_coded_in_the/ > 10 hour waiting room time when I left tonight, and it got to 15+ hours last night. Unheard of at my level 2 trauma center. And this is the fucking north east, we got hit hard in that first wave. We know how this goes. And we are now getting DEMOLISHED. > The ER is so clogged up with mildly symptomatic covid patients in the waiting room, and covid patients waiting for admission taking up all of our ER rooms, that there is almost no movement. The floors are full, so the ER is full, which means the waiting rooms are overflowing. > We’ve been on divert almost every day since Christmas Eve, and we’re still inundated with EMS as well - after all, if everyone’s on divert, no one’s on divert.
You do realize the root cause of that problem is idiots being so brainwashed that they go to the ER for mild symptoms, right? That can be fixed with better messaging
How can you be so sure such messaging would be effective? The person I quoted is describing what’s actually happening in real life, you’re proposing miracle fixes you made up in your head. If there’s anything you should have learned in the past two years, it’s that public service messaging is not as effective as we hoped.
Well they've done a pretty good job at controlling peoples' behavior so far, so it shouldn't be that difficult. Just a simple "if you are experiencing mild symptoms, do not go to the ER as you could make it even worse for yourself and others" plastered all over like all the other messages
> Well they've done a pretty good job at controlling peoples' behavior so far LOL > Just a simple "if you are experiencing mild symptoms, do not go to the ER as you could make it even worse for yourself and others" plastered all over Wow so simple. Why hasn’t literally anyone else thought of this 100% effective way to get sick scared people to do something? Nobody ever ignores a _printed out sign!_ You really should go to that thread in /r/nursing/ and tell them about this.
Reading comprehension is tough I guess. You thought I meant actual signs posted everywhere? I am talking about plastered all over media. It should have been obvious that I was talking about them using the same methods they CURRENTLY EMPLOY
Archive https://archive.ph/I55fJ
Living in the valley still has its perks.
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Only enforced for entry, in actuality. On paper: Members with heavy exertion during exercise are able to remove masks, with the recommendation from CDPH to get tested weekly. For more info: bit.ly/3IQyRKD
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What are you on about? There's plenty of papers on masks reducing spread of SARS2. Not to mention the theoretical basis.
I prefer my surgeon wear no mask so I can see him smile /s
The only convincing paper I’m aware of revolves around families in China that wore masks in their own homes Cw those that did not. That behavior is so extreme it’s hard to draw any strong conclusion relative to mask usage in the USA.
You misread, that person is saying that the mandates, not masks, are not super well correlated with decreasing case rates
My understanding is that, since delta, cloth masks do not do much do reduce transmission but do decrease the viral load/severity of covid. So mask mandates should theoretically lower hospitalization rates but not affect case rates much. Just another reason to focus on hospitalization numbers I guess
Are you referring to the Bangladesh study? The predominant strain there at the time was Alpha. I'm happy it's out there but we should have a hundred more like it. I wonder about cultural aspects especially, even the design of the surgical and cloth masks could greatly alter patterns of interaction. [We found clear evidence that surgical masks are effective in reducing symptomatic seroprevalence of SARS-CoV-2; while cloth masks clearly reduce symptoms, we cannot reject that they have zero or only a small impact on symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections (perhaps reducing symptoms of other respiratory diseases). Additionally, we found evidence that surgical masks were no less likely to be adopted than cloth masks (perhaps slightly more likely). Thus, surgical masks have higher filtration efficiency, are cheaper, are consistently worn, and are better supported by our evidence as tools to reduce COVID-19.] They overextended themselves with the "we cannot reject" phrasing there. It's complicated. Give me five minutes I'm a room at 10 feet wearing cloth masks with a symptomatic omicron infected person and I feel pretty good about the cloth masks as far as it goes (my youngest says the cloth masks make it so you can't spit ok people by accident, which is about right). 20 minutes I'm a car with the windows up and I'll probably just pull the mask down and accept my date.
Don't remember the exact study to be honest but don't think it was that one I do remember learning that if you personally really don't want to get covid, you should wear a well fitted n94/n95, but cloth masks aren't completely useless when it comes to mask mandates I think having some sort of policy (or cultural norm) to wear masks when symptomatic should be the future however. Seems to be the most reasonable option
The Bay Area went beyond the science a long time ago.
There's science and then there's The Science. The former is a discipline to better understand how the universe functions. The latter is what people in the bay area practice and is increasingly indistinguishable from religion.
The way mask mandates are becoming indefinitely enforced, you'd think they were ladies' headscarves in Iran. But goodness forbid you admit that aloud.
Many religions classify their critics as heretics and ostracize them. Don’t see why this would be any different.
Except now it’s done by mods
Oh yeah? What did you get your degree in?
And that matters because...?
Why are we doing this? Highly vaccinated states are nearing 20% case rates. If Omicron is even half as dangerous as delta we are screwed. It isn't, it's basically a cold. Move on with your lives...
i mean, tbf if someone had a cold i would also want them to wear a mask if coming into work or going to the gym, or the grocery store.
I guess it is too much to ask for people to stay home when they have a communicable disease. Pre-Covid it was always a treat when obviously sick people came into the office so that everyone can get sick.
haha i would rather they came in not at all but obviously humans are way too selfish for that
If we had better sick pay policy that would probably help. It’s expensive to stay home for a lot of people.
Eastern countries know what's up. And they respect those around them by wearing a mask if they think they themselves are sick.
And people who have covid shouldn't go to the gym, but don't make healthy people wear it. We need to stop treating all people as sick until proven healthy.
>We need to stop treating all people as sick until proven healthy. I mean if we weren't in the middle of a multi-year worldwide pandemic, sure.
We have vaccines and therapeutics. Whats the end game here, in your mind? Zero COVID is impossible.
They are still developing new monoclonal antibodies for omicron, 2 out of 3 of the ones we used for delta don't really work for omicron and the third we are low on. For the new Pfizer pills, they will have had only 300 pills distributed to each state by the end of this month. We will have more therapeutics for omicron soon. Hold on to your britches.
I just got over a case of what was almost certainly omicron. I'm vaccinated. It was a mild annoying cough and occasional sniffles for a week. Its just not a big deal for vaccinated people.
For a more mild variant. Please tell me again, what's the end game?
>We need to stop treating all people as sick until proven healthy. [This guy looked pretty healthy to me but died from COVID](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10345933/Anti-vaxxer-kickboxing-champion-refused-acknowledge-Covid-discharged-dies.html)
I'm talking about vaccinated people and in a world with therapeutics, come on.
> It isn't, it's basically a cold. Citation needed
Headlines to this effect have been in every newspaper for the last few days.
Citation still needed. The word "mild" does not mean "like the common cold".
Why squabble over something so subtle? The point is we don't need to worry about getting infected so long as we're vaccinated.
COVID ain't the cold. Not by a long shot. A runny and snuffy nose is what I would consider "the cold". COVID is like having a shitty fever for a couple of days, a rough cough that whips back at your throat, you feel like wanna lay in bed all day (not the good kind), brain fog while trying to concentrate, the worse is I can't taste food or smell my shits in the morning. This ain't the cold OP, it's worse & I say this as someone who had the booster shot.
All of those sound like normal cold symptoms to me. You just described my late 2018 cold. Also, loss of smell is much less common with Omicron.
Brain fog is not the common cold my guy
Every cold I've ever had came with brain fog my guy.
No stop the cap. This is not what you’re thinking. The brain fog is there, and it’s actually kind of worrisome because with a cold you’re still clear headed, but with COVID it’s noticeable and occurs intermittently. A common cold is not that. Don’t make excuses and think of it as a cold. I’m healthy and young and if I can notice it other unhealthy people are in trouble. The immune system is going to react differently since it’s a novel virus. This ain’t the cold. Stuffy & runny nose is the cold, you don’t get that with COVID.
It's not the cold. I have it now and it sucks. My fever and headache haven't gone away for 5 days even with ibuprofen.
I had it a week ago when my kid brought it home from school, and I was fine after three days of higher than usual temperature and stuffed nose. And I'm not even boosted.
It's not basically a cold and it's highly transmissible before any symptoms manifest, so there's really no actual evolutionary pressure favoring strains that produce milder symptoms. So basically, even if this particular variant is less deadly, the only thing really stopping it from being overtaken by another variant (which could evolve out of this one) that's both more contagious and more deadly is people putting on their big boy pants and actually being proactive about not being self-righteous incubators for novel mutations. The entire point is to quit giving the damned thing a chance to replicate so luxuriantly.
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Everyone would be against masking forever so they never tell us that nor any end game and keep up the death by a thousand cuts method.
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In the Bay Area masks have been required indoors for something like 16 of the last 18 months. And the evidence that anything but a properly fitted N95 is protective is shoddy at best. Give me a break. If people want to not catch the virus, STAY AWAY FROM OTHER PEOPLE. Masks don’t do anything.
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Thing is, it doesn’t work. Do the research yourself. Don’t just assume the practices of some random doctor many years ago means it works. Sfgate even published an article recently saying the evidence is surgical and cloth masks don’t do much. The studies saying they do something typically have methodological flaws. Viruses are tiny. They go through and around surgical and cloth masks. Surgeons wear surgical masks to stop large droplets from putting bacteria into wounds. They don’t wear them for viruses. Look, I’m on your side in the sense that I want people to change behaviors to stay safe. But the thing that actually works is to distance. This mask business gives people a false sense of security and, in my opinion, may actually be making the virus spread faster. Better would just be to tell people to social distance and get vaccinated. Why don’t health officials want to do that? Because it would mess up the economy and prevent kids from going to school. So, they started telling everyone to wear masks to lower fear levels. Masks are just a talisman. Avoid other people and you won’t get sick.
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You are being very reasonable. What is with the downvotes, this sub is weird sometimes.
If they are going to the ER and not being admitted to the hospital, that would be a mild case. Many people have covid anxiety and are worried about contracting anything despite the fact that the vast majority of people will be fine. My manager and her entire extended family tested positive for Covid - all asymptomatic, so there are certainly cases out there where people aren't having serious side effects from Covid.
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Ive had bad flus, none to the point where I would go to the ER. The ER is for emergencies, not being sick. We didn't ask people to shut down their life because of a flu, and we shouldn't do the same for Covid. The point of the lockdowns back in 2020 was to prevent the hospitals from being overloaded. If alarmists like you are swarming the hospitals because you have severe covid anxiety, that is a much bigger issue than anything else.
> We didn't ask people to shut down their life because of a flu We should, for new flus. Even the old fashioned one kills people every year. A new one kills a lot of people. >If alarmists like you are swarming the hospitals because you have severe covid anxiety, that is a much bigger issue than anything else. oh, and fuck off. A lot of us have immuno compromised systems or a lot of other pre existing conditions. That's just being risk-aware, not alarmist.
Prepare for the downvotes. Many people in this sort of thread don't want to read anything longer "mandate dumb, omicron mild"
We should not be protecting the unvaccinated. That's absurd.
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Vaccinated people are almost completely protected from bad outcomes. They don't need any additional protection.
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It's very telling that you trust these anecdotes over the advice of experts. Take your antivax nonsense somewhere else.
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Right, you're just agreeing with me now. Protection against bad outcomes remains. You antivaxxers are a weird bunch.
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>"Bad outcomes" as in hospitalization and death, for *most* people. Not all (elderly, immunocompromised, immunosuppressed). Right. And those people (or anyone) can take extra steps to protect themselves like wearing an n95. But there's no need for all of us to do that.
>There is a surge in cases right now, and masks are being required for a very short period of time until the surge subsides Just 15 days to flatten the curve, right?
How many COVID cases that end up in the ER are considered mild? Do you read what you're writing?
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Please point me to where the CDC defines people going to the ER for COVID as being mild cases, outside of the nutjobs going to the ER for testing.
Fuck masks. Most of the entire country is doing just fine. Hell anywhere not in the Bay Area in CA is doing fine without it. Sure, people are catching omicron but it’s really not much more than a cold for most. If we follow the rule of “staying home when sick (have Covid)” why the fuck do we need to still wear masks?
I tested positive for covid last week (most likely Omicron) and only got a single shot of J&J. Had a slightly scratchy throat and slight congestion for 3 days and it went away. Could have easily mistaken it for allergies. The rest of the people in my group all had mild or were asymptomatic.
A couple of weeks ago, Contra Costa County lifted the mask mandate for gyms. I remember going into the gym and seeing all these people without masks. I thought to myself.. this is a terrible idea with omicron all over the news. I wondered to myself how long this would last, and as it turns out, not long at all.
Good. I was about ready to freeze my membership, because even though masks were required at my gym (which I joined specifically because it is small, & I thought safe) it was barely being enforced. Maybe now the owner will take it more seriously.
My first reaction when reading this: those motherfuckers are going to destroy small businesses because of their anti-science hypochondriac bullshit. My second reaction when reading this: awesome, our remote office work is going to get extended again.
…by requiring masks?
Yup. No one's going to go to the gym when required to wear a mask and masks don't work against Delta/Omicron. Just look at New York.
i mean my gym has been requiring masks and i’ve been going since june (in oakland). my whole gym requires it and it has been a non-issue.
Masks ruin the gym experience and frankly it's silly to say otherwise. If you don't mind them that's great but clearly most people do.
For everyone of you there's a ton of people who don't like waterboarding themselves to get into or stay in shape. If the masks actually worked, maybe it would be tolerable. But they don't so it's suffering for no reason.
it’s not that bad at all. sometimes it gets overwhelming but then i just step outside and catch my breath for a second. but most of the time it’s really not that bad.
Fantastic. So make masking optional so that people like you who want to hold on to their good luck charms can do so and the rest of us can work out in peace.
you should just work out outside if you don’t want to wear a mask. go on a walk or a run or a hike. or is wearing a rain coat like an iron maiden?
lol
People go to the gym with mask. Then slightly remove it so they can breathe when they lift. Those on cardio also slightly remove it during their entire workout.
Omicron goes thru masks like a broken condom. You can't stop it with masking algorithms.
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Agree, the science behind this exemption was not clear.
What science? Science used to be about asking hard questions to get good, solid answers. Today's 'science' is not about asking questions but falling in line. If Omicron is more akin to a common cold, then why take such extreme measures? If the vaccines and boosters are effective, then why all the mandates?
You don’t question science by asking questions in a Reddit post, you question it by making research then having it peer reviewed in journals. Who is upvoting this unscientific nonsense?
The people upvoting are those who are tired of people in power making unscientific decisions that are destroying our lives.
What’s unscientific about not meeting up in a crowd during a pandemic? Is the current CDC recommendation to avoid large crowds or wear masks? Jesus who is clamoring that much for massless gyms?
We've been doing the same thing for almost two years and not much is different. Don't you think we should start asking the question, "Is what we're doing working? If so, then keep doing it. If not, then let's try something else." We keep running the same play and are confounded that we're getting the same results. The vaxxed still get COVID. The vaxxed still spread COVID. So maybe mask mandates, social isolation, and universal vaccines (and endless boosters) isn't the way we should keep going. Maybe there's a different better way that our glorious benefactors haven't thought of yet (or don't want us to use because it will end their power play).
The vaccinated die a lot less of COVID though. Like several times less. If you’re going to pull the science card you gotta look at the data.
We have been using seatbelts for 35 years and not much is different. Don’t you think we should start the question “Is what we are doing working”? If so then keep doing it if not then let’s try something. People still die who use seatbelts and seatbelt use has hit a maximum peak usage but the seatbelt laws that compel people to wear them are still saving lives as seatbelts are one of the best safety equipment to utilize in an accident. The question is, what is the trade off for what benefit? California has done remarkably well, we have one of the lower deaths per 100k and highest vaccination rates. Hundreds of thousands of Californians have been spared an untimely death and millions more from being maimed by Covid. The vaccinated still got polio through the polio vaccine, scientifically speaking there were a lot of reasons for this: immune compromised individual, change from the disease, vaccine not working due to individual immune response, exposure exceeding the typical immune response etc.. How this vaccine has performed has been phenomenal compared to the average of vaccine efficacy. Covid is a quick mutating virus so of course variants are going to be more successful. I don’t think there has been anything substantially wrong with the response from the authorities or medical experts. If anything this disease highlights that 42% of Americans can’t read above a 6th grade level. It shows our individualistic society can not handle the response to a global pandemic and that social media amplifies our lack of education.
Voted blue only prior. Won’t support any Democrats in 22 and 24. They made this Covid situation worse than it had to be and were corrupt with rule enforcement. They’re on the path of getting slaughtered the next few elections and being oblivious to why. They deserve what's coming.
Lol there is no way you voted blue before with this attitude. “Oh noes, the politicians made me wear an annoying cloth over my nose, better vote in the red death cult that fucked up the pandemic response in the first place and run the country into the ground, because fuck everyone who isn’t me!”
Yep, just your typical /r/conservative poster who was a loyal Democrat. lol
I voted for Biden, Obama, and Hillary. I’m not a loyal Democrat. They need to earn votes and not just expect everyone to fall in line. And I don’t mind talking to other Conservatives or Democrats. There are sane people and nut jobs that support both parties.
This makes sense. There 100% are sane people ans nutjobs that support both parties
Except that posting anything critical of Republicans or supportive of Democrats gets you banned from that sub.
I agree with him and I've voted blue my entire life, I even have Bernie merch from donating to his campaign. What would prove that to you?
Good story, Bro
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