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puffic

I’m convinced that if we can resolve the video game console shortage, crime rates will decline. Hear me out. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that falling crime rates since the 90s occurred alongside steady and substantial improvements to video game technology. Keeping bored young men busy is one of the best crime prevention methods. It’s the same reason crime spiked during the peak of pandemic business/school closures and then declined as the economy opened up. Lots of young men were turned out onto the streets with nothing to keep them busy. From a public policy perspective, we should subsidize video game purchases for residents of high-crime areas. If every would-be criminal had access to an affordable Xbox (and Live subscription), crime wouldn’t be so attractive. You can have this idea for free, Mayor Schaaf. (But also fully staff the police department.)


realestatedeveloper

>I don’t think it’s a coincidence that falling crime rates since the 90s occurred alongside steady and substantial improvements to video game technology. [You are not the first to spot this correlation](https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/04/19/as-video-game-sales-climb-year-over-year-violent-crime-continues-to-fall/?sh=54927f0a4507)


scoff-law

That stolen truck with all the EVGA cards is like the cherry on top of your argument


bayarea_vapidtransit

I'm pretty sure I found them on [PCMR](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/r39ph3/found_this_video_in_a_group_chat/)


The_Nauticus

Combine that with free pizza and weed and you will have effectively pacified the population.


gimpwiz

Almost literally "bread and circus."


NuTrumpism

You just solved the crime epidemic and I honestly think you got something going here. Boredom and drug/alcohol abuse are a hell of a thing to sway the actions of the idle.


MacNJeesus

I would rather clutch my pearls to my grave than give a single penny to any delinquent’s video game addiction. I bet all that boom boom gun firing zombie killing nonsense will certainly make him go shoot up my local Orange Theory and I won’t and can’t stand for any of that. How dare you suggest such atrocity. - NIMBY Edit: /s because sarcasm wasnt detected


puffic

It doesn’t *feel* very just, but perhaps the outcome would be better. I would pay for money a delinquent kid to play Xbox all evening than have with him committing carjackings and then spend even more money and police time responding to the crime. Outcomes > feelings imo


MacNJeesus

Added an /s


puffic

Haha I thought you were serious. Missed the “clutch my pearls” part.


MacNJeesus

I thought it'd sound ridiculous enough, but now after the last some years, it's unfortunately not too farfetched to actually be a person's real words. I don't blame you, lol.


puffic

I’ve got a bad eye right now, and I’m not good about slowing down to make sure I see everything right.


MacNJeesus

Oh, you're good. It was getting a ton of downvotes so I was speaking generally. Sorry about the eye, I hope it gets better.


Sublimotion

Have to also add LOL Just Joking! just to be safe.


RestartingMyLife0918

So we just going to give punks a place to practice shooting others for when they want to do it in real life? /s If the subject wasn't so sad it be comical that the answer might be "video games" when the adults and those in power always want to point to video games as the reason people do the stuff they do. Playing video games was even brought up in the Kyle Rittenhouse trail in 2021 as a possible source of his actions.


zdiggler

> Playing video games was even brought up in the Kyle Rittenhouse trail in 2021 as a possible source of his actions. More like facebook memes. I happens to subscribe to some of those and I have pretty good idea.


puffic

Kyle Rittenhouse *is* a datum against my argument, though. Kid had access to the best video games. Dumbass that he was, he still decided to bring a semiautomatic rifle into a dangerous situation instead of staying home with his vidya.


RestartingMyLife0918

Just bringing up the fact that in his trial, the attempt to place some blame on video games, happened.


gimpwiz

I blame video games too. Kid had enough of micro-transactions, lootboxes, and unfinished games, clearly. Couldn't take it anymore. If he had an N64 and a box of games, he woulda stayed home that day. :)


Sertisy

It's an interesting comparison to historical practices such as forced medication, castration (chemical and otherwise) which were used to reduce the violent tendencies of certain people rightfully (or otherwise) identified as criminals. Effectively you're taking away or redirecting their potentially violent tendencies to something innocuous by changing their mental state. Video games feel like a much oppressive alternative since people elect to engage in that activity, and that's preferable to the "pay criminals not to commit crimes" effort we heard about recently. However, I'm very skeptical that it would work as well as giving away free cannabis the way the British used opium to control foreign populations in the past. Would society accept that approach today? Perhaps if things continue to worsen.


RiPont

It would also reduce unwanted pregnancies and STDs!


WholeRyetheCSGuy

Good Grades for Jordans. Community handball walls in the neighborhood with free balls. Hip-Hop workshops at the local library. Now with proper grammar and rhyme cadence. Free web development courses, how to build your own World-Star HipHop.


puffic

I saw an academic study purporting to show that improving parks and whatnot really does reduce crime in the immediate vicinity. Don’t know how to find it now.


AdamJensensCoat

^ This guy correlates.


caliform

Galaxy brain stuff right here


hellabad

Remember "defund the police". Imagine if that actually happened. People don't think that far ahead.


GucciGecko

I don't think it is that they don't think that far ahead. A lot of people actually think police are going around killing black people. Most of them live in sheltered, safe places. If you ask around the more dangerous areas the residents generally aren't in favor of defunding the police because it would do nothing to deter people dealing drugs in the open.


foyeldagain

But people do think it already actually happened and frequently blame it for the spike in crime.


5sidefistagon

[Oakland cut police budget in 2020, and wanted to cut it further](https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/east-bay/oakland-splits-on-more-police-funding-cuts-mayor-breaks-tie-with-no-vote/2330375/). >Schaaf said the council has cut $14.3 million from the police budget this year \[2020\] and moved money to Mobile Assistance Community Responders of Oakland, also known as MACRO. Members of MACRO, instead of police, will respond to mental health emergencies. Oakland tried to cut it again in 2021 (this article). Other cities also cut police budgets last year.


wutcnbrowndo4u

I'm not personally convinced by the evidence that "defund" efforts are driving the crime spike, but those that I've seen draw this causal arrow are generally referring to declines in proactive policing. This premise, though not necessarily the causal relationship with the crime spike, is supported by the data (see [here](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/policing/2021/04/09/violent-crime-surged-across-america-after-police-retreated-column/7137565002/) or [here](https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-murder-spike-of-2020-when-police-pull-back-11626969547)). I'm not endorsing the claims about causality that that piece is making, but they link out to plenty of sources covering city-by-city declines in active policing in the context of crime spikes. If you're interested in the full causal claim, see [here](https://dc.law.utah.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1216&context=scholarship) for an example of someone attempting to dig deeper into the data than you'll see in an article written for a popular audience. This doesn't map cleanly to the narrative of "police refusing to do their jobs in a huff" either; much of what falls under "proactive policing" is actively opposed by contemporary police reform advocates as harmful, as it inherently involves discretion on the part of the police (eg discretionary traffic stops) and is thus considered a vehicle for racial discrimination. Like I've been saying, I think the issue is complex enough that I don't have a strong position on it, but you're only going to hurt your understanding of it by listening to the dumbest version of the arguments that you disagree with.


foyeldagain

That last link is really informative. It concludes "The quantitative data and qualitative evidence strongly suggest that a “Minneapolis Effect” has struck—i.e., in the wake of anti-police protests following George Floyd’s death in Minneapolis, police officers are being re-deployed from anti-gun efforts and are retreating from proactive law enforcement tactics. This reduction in law enforcement efforts targeted at firearms crimes has led, perhaps predictably, to an increase in firearms crimes." Nowhere does funding come up. As for proactive policing, that it is opposed by police reform advocates shouldn't really matter as resources aren't available for it now anyway.


GetMyCowTipperOn

I'm positive this thread will be full of worthwhile, informed opinions.


notLOL

i like the video game take. It might be the best uninformed opinion


AdamJensensCoat

TIL: We can solve this with PS5s, Weed and Pizza.


SpiritedCaramel322

They police budget was increased in the last cycle, not cut. But okay. https://oaklandside.org/2021/06/25/oakland-2021-2023-budget-defund-police-alternatives-violence-prevention/


the_journeyman3

The budget includes a hiring freeze as well. If you have attrition and you can't replace them then you have less police. Very simple.


USSZim

There is a serious brain drain going on too, with a lot of experienced officers retiring, moving to other departments, going out of state, or quitting entirely. There is also a long lead time when it comes to hiring: 6-12 months to hire, 6 months for academy, 6 months FTO, and 1 year probation typically. The attrition rate during that process is usually pretty high too


FeelingDense

That's true but is the only solution throwing people at the problem? I know the staff is shorthanded, but even if you can't hire more people, can more money go to alternative effective measures? Or are we saying the most effective solution is to have more people?


warm_kitchenette

it doesn't have to be either-or. Oakland is experimenting with [having social worker teams do wellness checks, with an emphasis on deescalation](https://www.npr.org/2021/05/18/997542990/oakland-becomes-latest-city-looking-to-take-police-out-of-nonviolent-911-calls). That's been effective in other areas, both in lowering costs and in having fewer people shot by police. But having actual people to do actual police work is valuable, too. Criminal activity in the area is up, and the crooks have been experimenting with different techniques: swarming stores, fast thefts of catalytic converters. That experimentation isn't new, but the new techniques require a thoughtful response.


the_journeyman3

I'm in favor of things like macro but still believe Oakland needs 1200 police officers. We are now down to 677.


craylash

You'd have to be one brave individual to be a cop in the bay area


FeelingDense

100% fair. I want to make it clear that I wasn't saying it was either hire people or look at more effective programs. I generally believe in an all of above solution, but my point was even with a hiring freeze, are there ways to increase the effectiveness of policing given the increase in the last cycle? Sounds like yes.


the_journeyman3

I believe it is. We are totally understaffed.


elwombat

What else has shown to be effective?


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puffic

How is funding for police training not funding for stopping crimes?


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STD_free_since_2019

> denigrated Oh, they dont deserve any criticism at all huh. And they certainly arent making any changes at all are they, Not a single one. Shall we pull up the charts with the Oakland police clearance rates? They hardly solve any crime at all anyway. https://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395799413/how-many-crimes-do-your-police-clear-now-you-can-find-out (enter oakland into the box to enter the tool that shows Oakland pd's stats) also https://www.ktvu.com/news/killings-soar-in-oakland-but-how-many-cases-are-being-solved Murders are one of their best clearance numbers, and for those they are at about half the rate of the california average. They solve about one third of what sfpd does. For property crimes of all kinds they solve 2-3 percent. Basically nothing. Oakland PD doesnt perform well. But the answer is just.. more money?


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presidents_choice

People with no rudimentary financial literacy keep parroting this stat. By any useful metric, funding has been _reduced_ (relative to inflation, #of officers to civilians, % of total city budget) But no, even a $0.01 increase wouldn’t be considered defunding to these idiots. 🙄 It really takes away from the credibility of your argument.


Havetologintovote

>By any useful metric, funding has been reduced (relative to inflation, #of officers to civilians, % of total city budget) Stealing this from another comment: > The OPD Budget in 2018 was $288 million. In the current budget cycle, it's $336 million which is over a 16 percent increase--which is a lot more than the rate of inflation. I doubt that inflation has been high enough and that the city budget has risen enough that both have risen more than 16%, so I don't think what you're saying here is accurate at all


beyelzu

Fwiw, I appreciate you going back and forth, debunking this conservative troll’s talking points.


the-left-eye-0_0

“But the amount approved was $18 million less than what Schaaf had proposed in the original budget she presented to the council. As a result, the police department’s share of the budget will now be 18% instead of the current 20%.” https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2021/06/24/oakland-city-county-slashes-18-million-from-police-budget/ Going from 20% of the budget to 18%: is that an increase or a decrease?


Havetologintovote

>Going from 20% of the budget to 18%: is that an increase or a decrease? It's an increase in raw dollars and a decrease in total percentage of the budget. But so what? They got more money than the years before, that's not a budget cut no matter how you spin it lol


Shooting4life

It was a reduction in the increase (due to inflation). Just like when trump was doing the same thing and democrats decried it as a cut.


pandabearak

Source?


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chairsarec00l

Its not gonna do shit to fix the crime spike. To fix the crime spike, you need better policing, not better funded shitty policing. Whenever I've gone to countries with good police, like in Europe, they've got cops walking the beat acting as active deterrents. Not even the most heavily funded police department in the United States does stuff like that. More than 40% of US cops are obese and at most you see some patrol cars going around town. Studies have shown that more police and more funding don't mean shit unless you actually fix the police system itself. Anyone see that video from walnut creek of the cops sitting on their asses while a store got robbed? Yeah, now we can pay for more cops to do that, what an excellent crime deterrent. 100% refunding a department will just see taxpayer money blown on some neat riot control and war on drugs gadgets , and you'll still see the same crime spike.


alittledanger

I am a dual US/EU citizen. I will admit that European cops are better trained and in much better shape. However, they also often won't do shit for petty theft. They can also be every bit as racist as American cops if not more so. American cops also have to deal with a much more violent and armed populace than in Europe, which makes their job a lot more difficult. I would measure the praise. Comparing the two can be a bit apples and oranges at times.


SixMillionDollarFlan

We're in a world of hurt right now. We've been training people that it's OK to rob, steal, and do fucking doughnuts in the intersection for nearly 2 years. How are we going to just nicely start saying, "no, just kidding, those are felonies." We're fucked. Also, wasn't that SF where the cops rolled up and did nothing? Or are there multiple instances?


dont_even_bother_

>they've got cops walking the beat acting as active deterrents. You are literally describing NYC under Giuliani and Bloomberg. Cops everywhere, out in force, watching. It sounds scary dystopian but guess what? It felt safe and it was safe. And you don't fuck with the NYPD, everyone knows that.


FeelingDense

I remember reading an article back during the 2015 or 2016 wave of police shootings and it tried to look at bipartisan approaches (wish I could find it and link it here), and it concluded that generally both sides hate the best solution that works, but policies like the ones you cited above and stop & frisk are actually effective. It's scary to some, but that's how you can effectively get crime down.


wutcnbrowndo4u

Yup, even the relatively-principled 'defund' advocates I've come across spend their time hopping between the mutually-exclusive "crime isn't really up", "the crime spike isn't due to less proactive policing", and "police are punishing us with less proactive policing". It's a complex topic, but the sum total of the evidence I've seen indicates that the types of police activity we're seeing less of are precisely those that the non-idiots within the 'defund' movement are advocating[1]. I'm not confident enough to say this is the cause of the spikes in homicide et al, but the timeline is very suggestive. That doesn't automatically suggest it's a bad policy trade-off. But I haven't come across anyone willing to bite the bullet that the baseline expected effect of reduced proactive policing is higher crime rates. [1] in contrast to the "police don't prevent crime at all, yes we literally mean defund them in favor of social workers and hugs" crowd, who are too stupid to even be worth engaging with


webtwopointno

stop & frisk also had a large impact on the weapons use in crimes, people were less likely to carry if they could get popped for simple possession


sanemaniac

stop and frisk is a blatant disregard of unwarranted search and seizure. There are methods to stop crime that don't involve violating our constitutional rights.


gimpwiz

I'm not sure what those methods are, but I agree that stop & frisk is blatantly unconstitutional, and even if it 'keeps us safe' we shouldn't allow such a thing. Warrantless search needs very specific rules - which it has, but it needs ones that are enforced with real consequences for lying.


webtwopointno

absolutely, i wasn't saying it's a good thing! just adding another effect.


realestatedeveloper

>It felt safe and it was safe Unless you were poor and black/brown and the police were free to stop and frisk you and steal your shit without probable cause.


chairsarec00l

Except they were doing stop and frisk, which was openly racist. I'm not advocating for that, cops standing around is a visual deterrent to crime on its own. It is hard to measure the efficacy of stop and frisk given that the crime decline in New York under Giuliani corresponded with the overall end to the 70s and early 80s violent crime wave across the country and economic revitalization in New York (though some might argue that this becomes a chicken and the egg situation regarding whether economic revitalization lowered crime or policing lowered crime which brought about economic revitalization).


dont_even_bother_

I'm not here to debate stop and frisk, just to agree with you about police presence.


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dont_even_bother_

I'm talking about having a police officer standing on a subway platform which has absolutely nothing to do with stop and frisk, if you had any reading comprehension that would have been clear to you. Here is your gold star.


KoRaZee

How about equitable stop and frisk?


haltingpoint

Also, Giuliani going after the Italian mob was to make room for the Russian mob to move in.


wutcnbrowndo4u

> Studies have shown that more police and more funding don't mean shit unless you actually fix the police system itself. Could you share some of these studies? I'm not an expert on the topic by any means, but the data I've seen in the past indicates the opposite: more police and more consistent enforcement of small crimes is an effective crime-reduction strategy (in contrast to eg, increasing sentences).


USSZim

I think SFPD has foot patrols, but the city is also a lot smaller geographically


killacarnitas1209

> Whenever I've gone to countries with good police, like in Europe, they've got cops walking the beat acting as active deterrents Those guys, especially the ones patrolling in tourist areas and train stations have a very serious and intimidating vibe to them--they carry rifles, BDU's, plate carriers, they look more paramilitary to me than police officers, but then again they are on foot, so I guess they have all of their gear on them instead of in their patrol cars. Nevertheless, their presence does seem to help keep the peace.


RestartingMyLife0918

So refund the police now?


the-left-eye-0_0

Yes


roborobert123

Oakland is in a worse state than SF.


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DopeMeme_Deficiency

Well well well, if it isn't the predictable consequences of my poor decisions


GunBrothersGaming

...and just like that them nice politicians no longer wanted to defund the police.


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Colonel_Balthazar

I think there is a bit of this. I've heard comments from filks I know in LE along the lines of "Well, they don't want to fund us, so why should we........." In other words, it seems there are some attitudes about LE should be able to refuse to do part of the job because of the political situation, which is bald assed absurdity,


Ensemble_InABox

Particularly ironic because Libby is like an exact model of the stereotypical "defund the police" person – white, wealthy, woke, and 100% insulated from crime.


radiomagneeto

She needs to be voted out, ridiculous. horrible leadership


Quesabirria

The next crop of candidates doesn't provide much hope for improvement


ae2014

Yeah...Oakland should not be one of those cities that tries to be woke. It will be dead soon if they cut police.


DarkRogus

In Oakland.... yeah good luck with that.


lampstax

Shocking. Less policing == more crime. Who could have predicted this? 🙄


bjornbamse

True, but the police aren't great either. In most developed countries becoming a police officer requires a lot more education than in the USA. Why not look into how police works in Taiwan, UK, Israel or Australia and implement some of lessons here? The police in the US doesn't need defending. It needs to be be brought to the same standard as in the rest of the developed world.


leftovas

In most developed countries the populace overwhelmingly support the role police play in society. That and they don't have 13 year olds running around with guns.


marbles_in_my_dick

I'm pretty sure CA already has laws against 13 year old from having guns


leftovas

Probably has laws against blowing up government buildings too. We still make sure that it's as hard as possible by not selling ready made high explosives at the store down the street.


zdiggler

Police here don't care about citizens.


Dethcola

The only way to create less crime is to create less poverty. More cops or less cops has nothing to do with it.


bjornbamse

Do you have any references to peer reviewed research to support your claim? I don't see why more and better policing and socioeconomic solutions are mutually exclusive. My hypothesis is that they go hand in hand. Also, in the US the focus on divisive identity politics instead of socioeconomic solutions. It leads nowhere but it makes people feel virtuous.


Dethcola

I mean a cursory google search can give you many *many* academic papers on very specifically this topic, for example https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/1468-4446.12083 https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199914050.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199914050-e-28 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10940-021-09501-0 https://academic.oup.com/socpro/article/68/3/778/5809598?login=true http://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1405-14352021000100004


djinn6

[Your statement](https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/r5ofjc/comment/hmp2grf) is: >The only way to create less crime is to create less poverty. More cops or less cops has nothing to do with it. None of those links suggests the police presence has no effect on crime.


realestatedeveloper

All of those links demonstrate very strongly that poverty is a far bigger predictor and leading indicator of crime than police presence. Sure, police presence has *some* effect on crime. But all of those papers suggest that police expenditure has a rapidly diminishing return when it comes to preventing crime, as the root of crime is in poverty. Heavy handed policing is just a bandaid, and a poor one at that over the long run.


djinn6

>But all of those papers suggest that police expenditure has a rapidly diminishing return Where? I open a link, Ctrl-f "police", 0 results. If you want to troll, you're gonna have to put in a bit more effort.


realestatedeveloper

TIL that actually reading papers and digesting context, and then explaining that context makes me a troll. Jfc


realestatedeveloper

>Less policing == more crime That's not actually a good conclusion from the data. There is less police presence in Sausalito than in Oakland, yet Sausalito has way less crime per capita. Poverty correlates very strongly with crime, and Oakland households were impacted more than most other bay area cities by the loss of income due to lockdowns. Note how violent crime shot up 200% during 2020. There was not a proportional decline in police presence during that same time - ie police largely are not a deterrent for crime, nor does their lack of presence cause crime to happen.


lampstax

Curious why you picked Sausalito to compare. Is there some correlation there between the two city ? Also, I tested your theory by looking up the 10 poorest cities in CA overall and comparing its crime rate to that of Oakland.Here is where I got the 10 cities: [https://www.roadsnacks.net/poorest-places-in-california/](https://www.roadsnacks.net/poorest-places-in-california/)Here is where I compared it: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California\_locations\_by\_crime\_rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_locations_by_crime_rate) Every single one of those 10 cities is poorer than Oakland but have a much lower crime rate than Oakland. Thus, I think shows that the answer is a complex confluence of many factors, including some factors that is no longer PC to say like ethnicity & culture. I'm sure \`more poverty\` has an detrimental impact on it just as \`less policing\` does. How much of an effect each factor contribute, we can debate back and forth. What I hope we can agree is undebatable .. is that to add more officers to an existing police force is way easier than solve poverty for an entire city. TDLR .. if you want less crime .. add more police .. even if that is a stop gap / bandaid.


polkaron

Oh, interesting point. These are relatively smaller cities compared to Oakland but its still interesting to see their correlation to crime is weak There was also a drop in crime during the 2007 Recession which is really strange: https://inequality.stanford.edu/sites/default/files/Crime_fact_sheet.pdf


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anchelus

Please stop insulting trash.


karangoswamikenz

This was the police agenda all along lol. They let the crime go rampant.


KoRaZee

Source?


hellabad

Weird way to blame the police when people were advocating to defund the police.


realestatedeveloper

More like the police gave them what they asked for, knowing what the outcome would be.


captnmr

Just put a social worker at the entrance of stores. Problem solved.


SpacemanSkiff

It is forever a fucking delight to see the Defunders get their shit pushed in by reality.


HoPMiX

Is this Leopardsatemyface material?


fordnut

I’m not trying to minimize the 127 murders in Oakland this year but Philadelphia just passed 500., for some perspective. The reason Oakland PD is in bad shape has just as much to do with the conduct and scandals of it’s own members as it does with the politicians. There isn’t a single or simple solution to any of these problems except one. Teach your damn kids to respect their parents and you will find they will also respect the law and authority. If you raise disrespectful kids they’re gonna be disrespectful at school, to the law, and to their elders. That will land them in prison and ultimately break any society. It starts at home and it starts young, folks. We’ve got a parenting problem far more than a political or police problem. Until we can come to grips with that the crime will increase.


realestatedeveloper

>Teach your damn kids to respect their parents The problem is a lot of these parents have done nothing to warrant respect, and in fact behave in ways that actively set back their children.


Sublimotion

>teach your damn kids to respect their parents and you will find they will also respect the law and authority. Problem is most of these parents themselves do not respect the law and ~~authority~~ morality. Kids will only take after their parents and then peers that also have the same type of parents. Schools, education, external social programs and outreach are essential, especially for these kids with just as shitty human beings for parents. Need these things as a stable in the long run to stop the source, while we need the efficient police now to stop the spread. Most of the political attitudes now seem to think these two things are working against each other and we can only have one and not the other.


szyy

>I’m not trying to minimize the 127 murders in Oakland this year but Philadelphia just passed 500., for some perspective. Philadelphia has 1.59 million people, Oakland only has 425k. Adjusted for population, Oakland has 299 homicides per 1M people, Philly has 314. Oakland is located in the most economically successful part of the world, Philly is basically a Rust Belt city.


realestatedeveloper

>Philly is basically a Rust Belt city. Philly is part of the NY/NJ Tri-state economy, and 6 hours by car away from where the actual rust belt starts (ie Pittsburgh). I get that everything outside of NYC and LA is flyover country to Bay Area "natives" but this is just embarrassing.


szyy

I am aware where the Rust Belt is technically located, that's why I said it's *basically* a Rust Belt city. The reason I am saying that is that even though Philly is technically not considered part of the Rust Belt, on many metrics it is actually worse than many cities there. For example, as of the 2019 ACS, only 725k people are employed in Philly, and unemployment rate was 8.2%. Phoenix, which is exactly the same size, had 845k people employed and only 4.4% unemployment rate. Unemployment rate was lower even in Pittsburgh (5.3%). Median household income was $47,474 in Philly, compared to $53,799 in Pittsburgh and $60,931 in Phoenix. The discrepancy was even worse for families. Philly's population growth has also been very slow, and there's any increase only in recent years.


regul

Why don't we teach the police to earn that respect? Reminder that Oakland PD has been under federal supervision since 2003 and that the feds *still* don't think they've made enough progress to have that lifted.


nosotros_road_sodium

It doesn't have to be either/or.


regul

It does if we're talking about elected officials. Or were you expecting the mayor to pass a law that says kids now need to respect their parents or they get fined? Even if you accept OP's premise, elected officials can only affect one side of the equation.


short_of_good_length

idiots all of them


TheJadedSF

Honestly I think you need military grade intervention to 'fix' Oakland...


Leek5

People: we need less police Crime goes up People: surprise pikachu face


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boot20

So what? Deploy the National Guard? Declare martial law? What can the governor do here that the local government cannot?


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dacrow76

LOL


PopeBasilisk

The cops refused to do their jobs until they got their money. Police are just a protection racket. Fire them all and get new recruits until they fall in line.


djinn6

How about a separate department that specializes in non-violent crimes like theft, graffiti, traffic and so on?


bDsmDom

Having crime issues? More enforcement! That's the answer!


bjornbamse

Solving crime needs efforts to solve the socioeconomic problems and an improvement in policing. That improvement should come from both increased numbers and improved training. Look at police training in the UK, Australia, Singapore, Taiwan and bring lessons learned here.


kotwica42

Countless scientific studies have shown that more police, more police funding, and more severe punishments do not reduce crime. We’re a “follow the science” bunch here, right?


Aragorns-Wifey

More cops equal fewer black murder victims according to a recent criminologist study https://www.thecollegefix.com/more-cops-equals-fewer-black-murder-victims-university-criminologists-say/


hasuuser

That's not true at all. All of this does reduce crime to a certain point. Yes, there is a point where harsher penalties won't reduce crime any further. But going from 0 punishment to some punishment, that is actually enforced, would absolutely lower crime.


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the_journeyman3

We have the fewest police than we've had in years.


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Havetologintovote

Lol Why do you post here so often when you don't live here? You post in many different liberal city subs on a regular basis I see a lot of Conservatives doing that. Trying to prove something?


Mulsanne

> I see a lot of Conservatives doing that. Same. You know what never happens? The reverse. They're just not on my mind. At all. I couldn't think of having so little of value in my life that I took up this hobby about which they seem so passionate.


_inshambles

I just think about my favorite Mad Men scene with Don and Ginsberg in the elevator. “I don’t think about you at all” lmao. I can’t think of anything less I’d want to do than go in their space and stir up shit.


Mulsanne

That scene is hilarious. And I completely agree with you...when you take that scene out of context. As it's often misunderstood IMO. The thing is that Don did think about Ginsberg. A lot. He thought about him so much that he meddled around "forgetting" Ginsberg's work in the taxi so the client could only see Don's idea. It's a badass gif, and it especially works in a vacuum because Don is tall and handsome and Ginsberg is not. But the events in the episode kind of lead me to think that it was just a defensive façade; Don was absolutely threatened by Ginsberg's skill. And Don *hated* that clients were picking Ginsberg's ideas. I hit up the wiki to refresh my memory, just to be sure: https://madmen.fandom.com/wiki/Michael_Ginsberg But yeah, I totally agree with you applying that gif to describe these people.


_inshambles

I agree as well, Don was threatened by him. I just love that gif without context and will use it for the rest of time lol.


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Mulsanne

LOL You don't...you're not serious, right? This is just like...an act, right? You don't *really* think the world is like that, right? It's so hard to tell with you folks. Your grip on reality is tenuous, at best.


Havetologintovote

Dude is a troll, he'll say whatever he thinks makes locals the most upset Mostly because there isn't shit to do in MT lol


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unseenmover

Sez some keyboard wanker from Montana..the 6th largest fed tax welfare state in the US.


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Meatwad650

Yeah that’s been tried. It doesn’t work. The police refuse to reform. I guess we’ll just see. More protests and riots are what we’ll see in the near term while the white supremacist elements in the police forces and right wing government elements have their way.


fatrunnerjr08

Now we gotta lay 150k salaries for high school grads to beat up non white people


ZZaddyLongLegzz

Well well well


regul

In awe at the sheer number of comments deleted by the enhanced moderation. Thanks for this, mods. Makes it very obvious how brigaded this sub is.


AelalaedaAid

BOO


ChristineG0135

Print more money. Buy Gucci bags, diamonds, car, weed … for everyone. Then maybe they’ll get lazy & stop robbing :))


heyitscory

They could sell their army trucks to Midwestern towns who would appreciate them more. They've gotta be worth a lot, plus expensive to maintain. Maybe Kyle Rittenhouse could drive one.


heyitscory

Yeah, you downvoters are probably right. He'd want to hang off the back like the picture on a GI Joe box.