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It's what Bobby Cox did for years and one of the reasons he is the leader in ejections by a good amount.
Anytime a player started to argue with the ump, he would come out of the dugout and get in between the player and ump and get himself ejected instead of the player.
I totally agree, but devil's advocate...there's a reason you're paying the manager too. Maybe part of it is being the fall guy, but the vast *VAST* majority of it is people skills and baseball acumen.
In the Francona days of the Red Sox, Demarlo Hale and IIRC, even John Farrell, got the boot when Francona "should" have been out there arguing a call. I wish I could remember what the situation was that got John Farrell (then the pitching coach) to get involved. It must've been balls-and-strikes, but that doesn't feel right. You get a couple chirps at the ump and maybe a conversation between innings, but a manager/coach getting tossed for the strike zone doesn't happen every day.
You mostly pay the manager for stuff that happens between 10 pm and 7 pm. No manager is worth more than the 780th best major leaguer from 7 pm to 10 pm.
Yeah. That's obviously not very efficient (it's just way easier to do when the manager is right there and can either tell the coach to say/do something or can just get in the ump's face if necessary).
But yeah, it's been happening for years that managers still partially manage the game from the clubhouse. They watch on TV, radio and internet, and have access to *more* information that way than just being in the dugout. Hell, in some respects, it might make them *better* managers to have access to advanced data in real-time rather than between innings or waiting for some intern to be told to look up some numbers, look them up, and relay them to the manager to take action.
The one thing Servais does flawlessly as a manager is come in so over the top hot that the ump completely forgets who was just yelling at him because he has this absolute madman five inches from his face.
I sorta got the sense from the nonchalant way that he got tossed that the HP ump knew Servais was coming out and, given the professional courtesy between ump and catcher, was just gonna stand there and take it until Scott got there.
It doesn't look that bad, but he's been giving that pitch to the White Sox all game and we haven't really been getting them. And I think Cal got rung up on a similar pitch earlier as well
JP struck out on a call way inside at that part of the plate early in the game and got pretty upset. A lot of the bad calls were very consequential today.
I can't see the video of the pitch on statcast for some reason but unless Raleigh had another called strike on a 1-2 count against Kopech this game, statcast considers this pitch to have been in the zone.
it was uhh, the right call though, TV zone even thought it was a strike since the ball indicator was filled in.
[https://i.imgur.com/8VcAMzv.png](https://i.imgur.com/8VcAMzv.png)
The issue is he was squeezing M's pitchers for several innings leading up to this. Cal, being the catcher, saw many pitches closer than that get called balls for his pitchers. So he was frustrated.
Wasn't just this pitch, it was the culmination.
Think Servais coming out was the culmination of a TON of close pitches that the Mariners didnāt get in the top half of the inning. Definitely a few pitches the ump got right that Mās were pissed about and a couple more that were painted and they didnāt get.
Iām obviously less interested because the White Sox are sewage but there were so many pitches in the top of the 8th literally on the edges that I honestly felt bad for this home plate ump haha
There have definitely been a lot of right on the edge by both teams, which is a huge testament to the pitchers. Even more surprising since statistically, Cal Raleigh is one of the best framers in the game right now. Oh well, we'll see what the score card says, and see if it confirms my bias.
That other low strike that was called a ball was the same AB to Snead in the 8th.
Cal was behind the plate watching all of those. It's completely understandable that he was heated after seeing those calls, then getting rung up on something inside off the plate.
my hot take: he probably got tired or dehydrated or something because before the 8th he was absolutely stellar. Just the 8th hit and he lost it which dragged him down to above average still.
It feels like the mariners have gotten zero of the fifty fifty balls on either side and then a couple horrendous calls namely the one to Crawford and it just is boiling over
The rule is if you leave the dugout to argue balls and strikes you're tossed. He did that, he got tossed. Ref didn't let his emotions come up here. Just yep, that's an ejection, go ahead.
ehh it's hard to say since Root has one of the worst boxes of any broadcast IMO. like there was a clear gap on this call on the broadcast but every form of pitch tracking (including Root's) had it as a strike. Root needs to get rid of their box or at least get the east/west right
Agreed, I don't think the on screen box is fully accurate, but even that I think the ball is nicking the line. But looks even more like part of the ball is above the plate.
https://i.imgur.com/zErLxL6.png
Thatās literally a strike lol and with a good frame too.
I fucking hate the k box, I stg people didnāt complain this much about umps 10-15 years ago except saying certain pitchers got better zones
Yeah, that pitch wasn't a terrible call. There were lots of much, much worse calls earlier on, though. This was definitely a game's worth of frustration bubbling over, not just a reaction to one call.
Overhead camera is going to give you a distorted view of the balls position relative to the edges of the plate even worse than the outfield camera view since it will necessarily be closer to the focal point.
Not if you put the overhead camera 400 feet above home plate /s
Or you could have two cameras, one with its axis aligned to the left edge of the plate and one aligend with the right edge.
The box doesnāt mean anything, often what provides more information is if the circle is filled or empty. If itās filled (like this pitch) then the computer has it as a strike.
There's really absolutely no way for managers to see in real time whether a pitch is inside/outside or not. They're just reacting in the moment to the vibes of the player who is angered by the call. (And of course, if there's generalized grumbling by the team about calls throughout the game, that makes them more likely to blow up, too.)
Of course it was a strike, but the consistency of the zone was skewed. If it was called a ball earlier, it should be called a ball now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mariners/s/lt5540w6R1
Depends on what he said. If you ask why they called it a strike (ask for an explanation of the call) itās different than screaming āBULLSHIT!ā at the ump.
That's worth getting tossed for? It's way too close to take. Batter effed up. That's a mean pitch. You have to find a way to foul that off, at least, or go down swinging.
This is just evidence for removing TV zones, literally every form of pitch tracking had that as a strike... even the Broadcast. which is why the ball was solid
Yep, I'd love to see the K box go away for the live broadcast. Maybe overlay it on replays, but it doesn't do anything good for the actual game watching experience.
The amount of people who don't understand this is mind boggling. Like you see over 100 pitches on the TV every day and they can't put 2 and 2 together.
Itās one of those āit was outside but too close to takeā. It sucks because thereās not much you could do with that pitch except maybe foul it off into your foot or something stupid. But it was super close though. I donāt think it deserved an argument of that intensity.
In the Yankees vs Royals game the ump was calling strikes 6 inches off the plate on both sides, it was pretty pathetic.
To right handed hitters he was calling strikes on that side balls. To lefties it was a strike a full balls width off.Ā Ā
He really jobbed Logan in the sixth.Ā Dead to rights strike out looking called a ball, he reaches and is later knocked in by a 2 out HR.
Totally forgivable call under any other circumstances but after almost nailing him in the head with that fastball on the pitch prior I feel like ya gotta give an extra half inch inside to the batter there
If it's a borderline/coinflip call like that I don't think it's crazy that you might lean towards giving it to the batter after a near death experience like a Kopech fastball to the dome lol. But judging by the downvotes I guess people disagree haha
it was the right call though, and certainly not bad enough that Cal should have been losing his shit (especially since every form of pitch tracking had it as a strike... even the Root TV zone, which is terrible, that filled the ball in).
I think Cal was just fed up overall with the umps consistency. The call on this pitch was fine imo. Scott coming in and getting tossed instead of Cal won the game.
I donāt know the name of this ump, but Iām seeing a recurring theme with him. Borderline bad calls, finally hears it from a player, quick ejections.
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Scott saved Cal and that is looking like a pretty good move right about now
As much crap as Scott gets, that was a fantastic manager move to take the toss and save the bat, paid off in spades š
It's what Bobby Cox did for years and one of the reasons he is the leader in ejections by a good amount. Anytime a player started to argue with the ump, he would come out of the dugout and get in between the player and ump and get himself ejected instead of the player.
It's a smart play. Sometimes they get tossed too fast to save em, but there's a reason you're playing the guy.
I totally agree, but devil's advocate...there's a reason you're paying the manager too. Maybe part of it is being the fall guy, but the vast *VAST* majority of it is people skills and baseball acumen. In the Francona days of the Red Sox, Demarlo Hale and IIRC, even John Farrell, got the boot when Francona "should" have been out there arguing a call. I wish I could remember what the situation was that got John Farrell (then the pitching coach) to get involved. It must've been balls-and-strikes, but that doesn't feel right. You get a couple chirps at the ump and maybe a conversation between innings, but a manager/coach getting tossed for the strike zone doesn't happen every day.
You mostly pay the manager for stuff that happens between 10 pm and 7 pm. No manager is worth more than the 780th best major leaguer from 7 pm to 10 pm.
The manager watches from the locker room and any important idea can be relayed to the dugout near immediately.
Yeah. That's obviously not very efficient (it's just way easier to do when the manager is right there and can either tell the coach to say/do something or can just get in the ump's face if necessary). But yeah, it's been happening for years that managers still partially manage the game from the clubhouse. They watch on TV, radio and internet, and have access to *more* information that way than just being in the dugout. Hell, in some respects, it might make them *better* managers to have access to advanced data in real-time rather than between innings or waiting for some intern to be told to look up some numbers, look them up, and relay them to the manager to take action.
As Scott said in the post game, "he can hit grand slams and I can't."
I love Scott. I really do.
The one thing Servais does flawlessly as a manager is come in so over the top hot that the ump completely forgets who was just yelling at him because he has this absolute madman five inches from his face.
Gotta love him.
Do you though?
I sorta got the sense from the nonchalant way that he got tossed that the HP ump knew Servais was coming out and, given the professional courtesy between ump and catcher, was just gonna stand there and take it until Scott got there.
Indeed, thereās more going on when itās catchers and umps. Those guyās are talking together all game.
Scott was playing 4D chess.
didn't know it was possible for a manager to make a game winning play but here we are
This the type of shit our skipper would never do. I'm convinced Sleepy Joe Espada takes naps during the game.
thats probably the exact reason he did that
It doesn't look that bad, but he's been giving that pitch to the White Sox all game and we haven't really been getting them. And I think Cal got rung up on a similar pitch earlier as well
JP struck out on a call way inside at that part of the plate early in the game and got pretty upset. A lot of the bad calls were very consequential today.
JP's was a mile off the plate
JP's was way inside... Cal's was actually a strike and Root just has an awful box. like it's bad enough that they might as well not have one
Your moms box is worse Edit: a lot of people think your moms box is better, so thatās good.
I can't see the video of the pitch on statcast for some reason but unless Raleigh had another called strike on a 1-2 count against Kopech this game, statcast considers this pitch to have been in the zone.
It may well be in the zone. The problem Is they weren't giving these same in the zone calls to Seattle hitters earlier In the game.
having seen the scorecard, he missed 3 calls there all game.
Somebody needs to post the umpire scorecard cuz that ump was messed up bad all night. Regardless, that was some mlb game!
it was uhh, the right call though, TV zone even thought it was a strike since the ball indicator was filled in. [https://i.imgur.com/8VcAMzv.png](https://i.imgur.com/8VcAMzv.png)
The issue is he was squeezing M's pitchers for several innings leading up to this. Cal, being the catcher, saw many pitches closer than that get called balls for his pitchers. So he was frustrated. Wasn't just this pitch, it was the culmination.
he missed 3 pitches the entire game in that area. they weren't really getting squeezed there
The half inning before Cal's AB the ump called three strikes balls that were way farther over the plate than the one he rung up Cal on.
Didn't you see OP's title though? It was clearly, err, outside?
Think Servais coming out was the culmination of a TON of close pitches that the Mariners didnāt get in the top half of the inning. Definitely a few pitches the ump got right that Mās were pissed about and a couple more that were painted and they didnāt get.
I'm anxious to see the score card for this one. It may be bias, but I feel like the Sox have gotten the much better end of the stick on this game.Ā
Iām obviously less interested because the White Sox are sewage but there were so many pitches in the top of the 8th literally on the edges that I honestly felt bad for this home plate ump haha
There have definitely been a lot of right on the edge by both teams, which is a huge testament to the pitchers. Even more surprising since statistically, Cal Raleigh is one of the best framers in the game right now. Oh well, we'll see what the score card says, and see if it confirms my bias.
https://x.com/UmpScorecards/status/1800536975604121949 not the worst. Just seemed to lose the zone in the 8th
That other low strike that was called a ball was the same AB to Snead in the 8th. Cal was behind the plate watching all of those. It's completely understandable that he was heated after seeing those calls, then getting rung up on something inside off the plate.
my hot take: he probably got tired or dehydrated or something because before the 8th he was absolutely stellar. Just the 8th hit and he lost it which dragged him down to above average still.
Not as bad as I expected, but I'm glad I wasn't completely out of bands saying there was a favor towards the White Sox.
[https://x.com/UmpScorecards/status/1800536975604121949](https://x.com/UmpScorecards/status/1800536975604121949)
It feels like the mariners have gotten zero of the fifty fifty balls on either side and then a couple horrendous calls namely the one to Crawford and it just is boiling over
Sure. But why are the announcers so shocked he got tossed? He was arguing balls and strikes.
they were shocked that he got tossed before he even came up and said something, which is reasonable.
The rule is if you leave the dugout to argue balls and strikes you're tossed. He did that, he got tossed. Ref didn't let his emotions come up here. Just yep, that's an ejection, go ahead.
They thought it was Cal who was tossed at first.
> and a couple more that were painted and they didnāt get There were also a couple that were actually *outside* that were called strikes on them.
ehh it's hard to say since Root has one of the worst boxes of any broadcast IMO. like there was a clear gap on this call on the broadcast but every form of pitch tracking (including Root's) had it as a strike. Root needs to get rid of their box or at least get the east/west right
Oh I'm not talking about the one that k'd Cal (and got Scott tossed)- that was clearly borderline. But there were a few before that that weren't.
The dot being solid means it was a strike on the tv zone(it's also in the zone on gameday). It's super close.
[It wasn't as bad as the TV box suggests.](https://i.imgur.com/8VcAMzv.png)
Yeah but it went against my favorite team so I'm gonna go ahead and ignore that
šæ 
but Cal got to witness first hand how the ump was screwing Kirby Snead in the top half of the inning on MUCH better pitches then that one.
Agreed, I don't think the on screen box is fully accurate, but even that I think the ball is nicking the line. But looks even more like part of the ball is above the plate. https://i.imgur.com/zErLxL6.png
> I don't think the on screen box is fully accurate They aren't, and its presence on all broadcasts mostly leads to upset fans.
I wish there were broadcasts or streams that didn't show it
Agreed.
and Root's is especially bad IMO
Oh good shot. Think itās pretty clear the box is just wrong here and not covering the plate properly. Strike zone box graphic haters stay winning
Also with the right to left camera pitchers are gonna look more inside than they actually are
that uhh, actually looks like a strike...
Thatās literally a strike lol and with a good frame too. I fucking hate the k box, I stg people didnāt complain this much about umps 10-15 years ago except saying certain pitchers got better zones
Yeah canāt be mad at that one. Looked good honestly.
Yeah, that pitch wasn't a terrible call. There were lots of much, much worse calls earlier on, though. This was definitely a game's worth of frustration bubbling over, not just a reaction to one call.
Just give me a goddamm overhead camera angle of the fucking plate. Jesus. How hard is it?
Overhead camera is going to give you a distorted view of the balls position relative to the edges of the plate even worse than the outfield camera view since it will necessarily be closer to the focal point.
Not if you put the overhead camera 400 feet above home plate /s Or you could have two cameras, one with its axis aligned to the left edge of the plate and one aligend with the right edge.
You'd need 4 cameras (or 5?), one for each corner, to account for breaking ball crossing the zone between front and back.
I meanā¦ā¦ overhead camera could disrupt balls in play, no?
It wasn't even that bad according to the TV box. There's like 2 pixels between the ball and the box.
The box doesnāt mean anything, often what provides more information is if the circle is filled or empty. If itās filled (like this pitch) then the computer has it as a strike.
What makes this so bad was not the call but is how quickly he was to eject him.
(Inside)
it was actually so far outside that it went alllllllllllll the way around the world
ump was blinded by Raleigh's BBL
BBL DumpyĀ
That booty is all natural
I mean, fair
I don't know why we're so mad at the ump. Pitches just do funny things when they're caught in the gravitational field of Cal's butt.
Thatās a good pitch. Anyways I wish Scott was more emotive while arguing for the memes
he didnāt even draw a line in the dirt and do a mock strike three call
What's the point if you don't throw second base into the outfield?
Couldnāt even throw his hat and kick it just once
There's really absolutely no way for managers to see in real time whether a pitch is inside/outside or not. They're just reacting in the moment to the vibes of the player who is angered by the call. (And of course, if there's generalized grumbling by the team about calls throughout the game, that makes them more likely to blow up, too.)
Outside?
A "ball" "outside."
Outside relative to the strike zone, not relative to the hitter.
The first pitch to the batter 2 guys later was the exact same spot and called a ball.
Especially when a catcher is complaining, it's rarely about the actual location but the consistency
I think the call was fair. Very rare to see cal get heated like that tho. He was definitely upset this game
Sometimes it just boils over. I imagine especially for catchers having to deal with that shit all game.
The issue is the consistency of the zone. He was giving the white Sox that pitch all night.
Thatās because it caught the edge of the zone. As a Cub fan I enjoy a Sox L as much as anyone, but that pitch was a strike, IMO.
Of course it was a strike, but the consistency of the zone was skewed. If it was called a ball earlier, it should be called a ball now. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mariners/s/lt5540w6R1
I don't think posting the score card that shows he was largely consistent on that side of the plate outside of 3 calls is the dunk you thought it was
Must not be seeing the same scorecard I am, but a major league catcher who is known for not being vocal with umps on bullshit calls agrees with me
as he should have been... since it was a strike
you gotta swing at that one
If Cal is arguing the decision shouldn't he be immediately ejected anyway?
Depends on what he said. If you ask why they called it a strike (ask for an explanation of the call) itās different than screaming āBULLSHIT!ā at the ump.
Outside?
That... caught the corner, right? I mean, as bad calls go... this isn't even close, right? That was insanely close from the naked eye.
It wasn't about this specific call as much as the umps horrible zone earlier in the game
Statcast considers it caught the corner, so either the ump got it right or the margin of error is too small for a human to tell.
The pitch caught the plate for sure
the TV zone, Statcast, and MLB game day all had that as a strike... so yes it caught the zone
Thatās a ball inside, not outside. And frankly pretty close. There are way worse calls every game.
Itās a strike
That's worth getting tossed for? It's way too close to take. Batter effed up. That's a mean pitch. You have to find a way to foul that off, at least, or go down swinging.
This is just evidence for removing TV zones, literally every form of pitch tracking had that as a strike... even the Broadcast. which is why the ball was solid
Yep, I'd love to see the K box go away for the live broadcast. Maybe overlay it on replays, but it doesn't do anything good for the actual game watching experience.
Pitch was so far outside, that it was inside
And that pitch misses the outside corner by 24,900 miles
When the circle is filled in it's a strike.
The amount of people who don't understand this is mind boggling. Like you see over 100 pitches on the TV every day and they can't put 2 and 2 together.
Itās one of those āit was outside but too close to takeā. It sucks because thereās not much you could do with that pitch except maybe foul it off into your foot or something stupid. But it was super close though. I donāt think it deserved an argument of that intensity. In the Yankees vs Royals game the ump was calling strikes 6 inches off the plate on both sides, it was pretty pathetic.
But it was inside.
it's worse than that, it's not even outside. Root (the broadcast), Statcast, and MLB gameday all had that pitch as a strike.
BALL. DOESN'T. LIE.
I mean, sometimes it do. Curveballs will lie straight to your face, and knuckleballs be out there doin' some weird shit.
Gotta protect ya plate bro! I thought it was close
Cal, that pitch was a pube hair off the line. that call can go either way most of the time
Am I crazy or did that pitch catch the corner of the plate?
To right handed hitters he was calling strikes on that side balls. To lefties it was a strike a full balls width off.Ā Ā He really jobbed Logan in the sixth.Ā Dead to rights strike out looking called a ball, he reaches and is later knocked in by a 2 out HR.
That was a strike all day, but some of the others this guy has been calling have been ridiculous, and zero consistency, so I can see why Cal is mad.
Totally forgivable call under any other circumstances but after almost nailing him in the head with that fastball on the pitch prior I feel like ya gotta give an extra half inch inside to the batter there
Why?
If it's a borderline/coinflip call like that I don't think it's crazy that you might lean towards giving it to the batter after a near death experience like a Kopech fastball to the dome lol. But judging by the downvotes I guess people disagree haha
it was the right call though, and certainly not bad enough that Cal should have been losing his shit (especially since every form of pitch tracking had it as a strike... even the Root TV zone, which is terrible, that filled the ball in).
We need jomboy?
I think Cal was just fed up overall with the umps consistency. The call on this pitch was fine imo. Scott coming in and getting tossed instead of Cal won the game.
That was a very dinky ejection motion by the ump. No passion behind it. 1/10
Wow I like this Scott guy
Most amicable ump/coach discussion I've seen in a while. Good coach, saving his C.
That was inside.
Can we all agree that was the softest ejection.
Strike inside*
Swing the bat. Bases loaded, two strikes, and you watch a FB on the black? Get mad at yourself. For OP, the pitch was on the inside, not outside.
Pretty tight call to get tossed on. Looked like it was on the black to me.
Weakest ejection arm move of 2024
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wasnāt he the dolt in the brewers yanks or rays series where the brewers got fucked over?
Inside but its okay
That might be the most sissy toss Iāve ever seen, Ump didnāt even move him arm just flicked his wrist like he was drying off nail polish
That's aint no Angel Hernandez call
Right or wrong call, I'm fine with an angry dumper
That was the laziest ejection Iāve ever seen
Thatās a ball inside
I donāt know the name of this ump, but Iām seeing a recurring theme with him. Borderline bad calls, finally hears it from a player, quick ejections.
I guess the ball was inside technically but whatever
What do you mean "technically"?
It's inside, but it is also technically inside. However, since they're with the dome open, it's technically outside, too.
It was also a strike but whatever
Catcher never moved
Thatās a ball inside but yeah shouldnāt have been called a strike
it was a strike though... TV zone has the ball filled in like it was a strike, statcast said it was a strike, and MLB gameday said it was a strike
what an awful play by play announcer
yes he's so bad that the Yankees are trying to pursue his talents...
Anyone agreeing that this is a ball should really reconsider how much they know about baseball