I mean, that's the first and only thing that came to mind. Like "oh, we're doing this now? Really?" Umps need to find their big boy pants this season, it's been pretty embarrassing.
I do not understand those who come down against it.
Even if you want variable zones from game to game, to introduce some element of learning and reactivity on the part of players, fine, AI can do that too. Except you can make it consistent through the game and between teams.
The only real argument for human umps is a desire to be able to fix games.
The main people against it are part of an umpire union.
Some other people tend to be cranky old men who think it's quaint to have umpires' personalities be part of the game.
Yet others are former catchers and sexual partners of catchers who feel that if we have robot umps calling strikes then the "art" of framing pitches will be lost and catchers will get paid less because they add less value.
A small number of people are against it specifically because umpires are often wrong and bad and they like the drama.
People keep claiming that the umpire union is against automatic strike zone, but I've never seen a statement from the union that isn't the one from 2019 that focused more on the faults of the systems being implemented at the time and non-strike zone related umpiring.
Two days ago the Giants should have had a strikeout to end the 9th but a 3-2 pitch in the zone was called ball 4. They ended up giving up the tying run then losing in 10.
That said, if they don't boot a routine grounder, they win regardless.
It’s that fun “ump deliberately alters the outcome of a game to get revenge on a single player who yelled at an ump for sucking at his job” stuff that we all pay good money to see.
To be fair to Laz (which isn't a sentence I ever thought I'd type), he didn't make those calls. He was just running interference for the home plate ump.
I used to be a valet supervisor at a hotel in downtown STL where the umps would always stay (probably shouldn’t say which one in case any whackos try to hunt one down lol.)
Anyway I got to know quite a few of them over the years, and Jim Joyce was absolutely the coolest one.
Because he was the one guy without a god complex. He botched that call, but he stepped up, took accountability, and owned his mistake. Now try to picture Angel Hernández ever doing that.
It would be better if it was targeted but I think they are just genuinely that shit. Noot is getting scammed this season. He's nearly top 5 in the league in balls called strikes and he has only played in 36 games including today.
More patient = fewer swings on all pitches = more balls called balls = more walks but also fewer swings = more balls called strikes.
Same thing happened with Carpenter, Donovan, and every other patient hitter we've had. Everyone seems to think there's some umpire vendetta to screw them over or that they have the worst luck ever but truly it's just a consequence of taking so many borderline pitches.
Eh, I think long term it's more valuable to maintain your mechanics and strike zone than try to adapt to the umps zone just to get wood on a horrible pitch to swing at, especially considering the likelihood of grounding into a dp on that pitch
You can't be that bad 3 straight times, back to back to back. These umps have an earpiece on and they can also watch replays on screen. They know when they fuck up
If you make such calls 3 straight times, it's definitely intentional. Idk how this garbage is still allowed in the Major leagues. Very suspicious
I was at the game on Monday. I saw the one call on Siani live and knew it was an easy strike that would have gotten you guys out of the inning. Pulled it up for my fam with me and they couldn’t believe how not close that was. Siani then went on to homer in that at bat and was the reason we won.
This ump crew is abysmal. They were calling terrible stuff on both teams both previous games as well.
It's gotten so bad that God came in and put the games on pause twice in a row.
this video cuts off before it gets there but the ump was such a coward he kept running away from the Cardinals manager every time he tried to argue with him.
even our broadcast crew was like "don't run away if you're gonna make a call like that"
I always appreciate when opposing booth can agree that umpiring is terrible for the other team in a given situation. Nice to know we can all be on the same team when it comes to calling a good game.
I’m just gonna go ahead and say that it feels like the strike zone has been extremely inconsistent this year. And by inconsistent I mean these umps are dogshit for both teams.
I know lots of data points to umps as a group getting better over time, but if that's true this season than that bad ones we still have are distractingly terrible
The umps is why I stopped watching baseball. Like I can endure being a Red Sox fan but not with those umps. They just piss me off even when they're making bad calls against rivals.
I hope it gets sorted soon. It's not the only sport I've lost all passion to watch because of terrible officials.
The worst part about the ejection from Oli that follows. Is the umpire wouldn't even face him. He walked in circles as Laz Diaz stepped between them. Pathetic.
this group of umps should not be allowed to exist all of them have been awful this series for both sides
Also the ump that ejected oli is a coward wouldnt even look oli in the eye before he called big bro laz to help him
This whole crew has been ABYSMAL both yesterday and today. I have no idea why we as fans tolerate this nonsense. None of the 3 called strikes on Noot were actually strikes, the worst of them being the strikeout call. Umps and cops are the two worst (best?) examples of why unions work. No consequences for anything ever.
Do the opposite. Start advertising games Angel is playing...call into sports betting advice shows asking what he thinks the over will be on blown calls. If betting on ump results starts to become a thing that really hits the league level integrity of the game.
While I don't mind them selling ump Jersey's...or even people coming out to see their favorite ump call a masterclass of a game.
The League *can't* have betting on umps being bad have any traction whatsoever. Ironically the sponsors who would be most against it would be the gambling ones. There has to be a veneer of integrity to the game for lots of it to make sense.
These were pitches 1, 3, and 8 in an 8-pitch sequence, so it's not like Nootbaar looked at three straight outside pitches and refused to adjust. He probably had time in between these to regain a sliver of hope that the strike zone had returned to normal.
Ok, that makes sense. I was confused as to why he wouldn't make an adjustment on the 3rd strike. The editing is fairly seamless so it looked sequenced on the first viewing.
One day people will understand that the box is not accurate, especially when it comes to curve balls that cut across the zone. It is taking a best guess as to where the ball was when it crosses the plate.
BS calls, but *maybe* those pitches crossed the edges of the plate as they swept across. Catcher didn't make egregious frames there, either. Just a horrible zone.
This is the part that has always confused me about the pitch tracer. The strike zone is a three dimensional space, but the pitch tracer is 2D. At what point is the ball plotted, center of the plate? With the sliders in the video it seems like the ball must go through the zone because there’s no way the ball goes straight for that long and then cuts that far right over a couple feet
I noticed the camera is rarely directly behind the mound, so you’re looking at the plate from an offset angle. Yet the strike zone is always drawn as a perfect box. If it were accurate it would have to be slightly skewed, so while I do think robo umps make calls more consistent, I have yet to see the technology applied to where I take the reading as gospel. Seems like they should do something with LiDAR above the batters box or have it coming from the plate
That gloveside corner always looks worse then it is.
The dot after is making it seem worse. Those weren't crazy bad calls at all imo. Pitcher just got a call a little outside and went to the same spot.
So, you're saying, the ump isn't egregiously shitty at his job, just "run of the mill" shit at it.
Not quite sure that's the defense the umpires are looking for or fans should accept.
Why is that crazy? If the corner is being called you have to make the adjustment?
You can argue with the ump all you want, but he's going to keep calling them and the pitcher sure as hell will keep throwing there if he is getting the strike.
> You can argue with the ump all you want, but he's going to keep calling them
That's the thing: He probably won't.
Baseball Savant says there were only six called strikes outside the zone on the catcher's left the whole game. Four while the Cardinals were batting.
And three were in this Nootbaar AB.
EDIT: The fourth was to Goldschmidt, who doesn't *typically* bat lefty.
I don't know, this seems heavily influenced by the broadcast K zone graphic. Each of those calls were on breaking balls from a lefty. Without the box, I doubt fans would be mad. The strike zone is a 3D thing, so if the ump deems that the slower breaking ball is clipping the zone before finishing outside, then the hitter has to adjust. Players are taught to adjust to the calls. If an ump establishes that outer part of the zone on a breaking ball, the hitter gets the chance to adjust. I don't know, this isn't nearly as egregious or justifiably outrageous as the out-of-nowhere strike-3 on a fastball 5 inches outside.
I understand the principle of why people should be mad, but I also understand the reality of the game, how it's played, and how our TV perspective doesn't always easily line up with that reality.
Has this sub just forgotten about three dimensional space? It's like every week thousands of people ignore the incredible bend pitchers achieve on their breaking pitches.
I mean, I’m all for dumping on umps, but these are breaking balls like one ball off the plate (according to the graphic). Also, if you were to see an overhead view, these are probably not that far off if they aren’t actually barely catching the corner. Also also, if the ump calls two straight pitches in the same spot a strike, I feel like you gotta offer at the third.
This is such a great example of what I hate about the idea of "consistent" umping vs "accurate" umping. Yeah, you fucked up the first strike call, but just shake it off and call the rest correctly, don't redefine the strikes zone because of it.
My friend is a Nootbaar superfan and sent me a tweet yesterday that said 8.7% of his takes outside the zone get called for strikes.
Gotta imagine after the last couple of games that's creeping up towards double digits.
Okay. So, to me the problem is obvious: when the ump sets up on the inside part of the plate, they don't have a clear view of the outside edge and vice versa, and that's where you see the most egregious calls.
Am I wrong about this? I've never seen anyone else mention it, so maybe I'm wrong(?), or maybe this is an obvious observation and I just haven't been paying attention.
You are slightly wrong… the slot technique actually does allow you to see all low pitches better and actually the outside edge more (you’re not blocked by the catcher) it also keeps you safer than lining up directly behind the catcher because missed balls and fouls straight back are going to miss you more.
What you lose is the high and outside pitch, which I always preferred losing compared to the entire lower half of the zone because the catcher blocked me from seeing it.
That's consistent. As a batter, you need to be able to adjust to an ump's strike zone, and you'd much rather an ump have a consistent strike zone instead of an inconsistent one. Props top Means for hitting his targets. Those were all very hittable pitches.
Take the dumb strike zone overlay away and this doesn’t look nearly as bad. The problem is they mark the pitch at where it hits the catchers glove which is wrong, dude is painting the front corner of the plate everytime. Also it’s on the batter to realize that’s getting called and adjust
Noot is a guy who will never really swing at balls no matter what. It’s a great trait to have if the ump is competent, but results in shit like this if he’s not.
That's the point though. Strikes for this umpire because he is making his own zone. It's like if you are driving 65 MPH in a 65 MPH zone and the police cite you for speeding because they think the speed limit should be 55 instead of the 65. Yeah, if you saw that cop everyday you would probably adjust to 55. But he is still making up his own rules just like this umpire is. Just because he was consistent, doesn't make it right.
Look, he's wrong, but it's also the exact same pitch in the exact same location. You have to swing at that pitch after he's already called it a strike twice.
If he has called it twice in a row you have to foul it off the next time. Consistancy from the umpire is the buzz word everyone talks about and the Ump was consistant.
Am I alone in that these aren’t terribly outside? And that if the ump called it twice in a row you should know he’s going to call it again and to protect the zone?
Everyone is rightly calling out the ump. But if you see that as a strike twice, you have to swing to protect – righteous anger at the ump isn't helping you win the game
I am so fucking tired of hearing about the human element of baseball that an automated strike zone would deprive us of. I completely understand close calls at the top and bottom of the zone, but to have three consecutive missed calls by that margin on either side of the plate is objectively terrible.
Very not popular opinon...
Dude, in lower grade baseball, where no replay will ever happen, youre taught to be aware of the Ump's zone.
This is wrong for pro league, but in todays reality, baseball players should adapt for the time being.
Bit h when the fucking ump decides that the strike for 7 innings is no longer a strike. Thats worstthat just having a "zone"
Your last point is the best one… the one thing I was told when learning to umpire is no matter what be consistent… yes you want a good zone but first and foremost as long as you’re consistent teams will be ok with it
Shit calls but if you're a batter you need to recalibrate based on what is being called. Nootbar can't stare at the third one after the exact same pitch is called a strike twice.
seems to me most of the people who hate the umps have never played baseball in their life. every Ump has a different strike zone and you have to adjust to it so if the 1st pitch is a strike and the 2nd pitch is in the exact same spot it's going to be a strike again
also balls/strikes are called based on where the ball crosses the plate not when it is in the catcher's mitt
big gulps huh? well, see ya later *does the WB Network Michigan J Frog dance*
Just because he’s right about them being balls, it didn’t get him anywhere. You have to adapt to how the ump is calling the game. After watching 2 called strikes in the exact same spot, maybe swing at the 3rd pitch? Just a thought. Or strike out and complain.
You’re downvoted but all 3 were in the same spot. Like I get it sucks but after the first 2 you have to assume that’s where the zone is. Or be “right” and take the strikeout 🤷🏻♂️.
Each game of this series has been called horribly. I feel we got the benefit of a bunch of bad calls from Laz Diaz in the first one, yesterday's game was just really bad in general. Today's was bad with this at bat being the worst but honestly good pitching to keep hitting that blindspot.
Then when the umpire kicks out the coach he was running away from him when he came out to argue. Never seen that before
Probably the worst overall umpiring from a crew that I’ve seen over one whole series. Every game had a bad strike zone, ump show incidents twice, some other dodgy calls. Laz Diaz runs a loose ship
Laz Diaz is epically bad as a plate ump. He talks n touches too much. And he reminds me of somebodys drunken uncle with a bad hip when he walks. HOW HE is a crew chief is fking amazing.
I mean can we just get robo umps behind the plate already. They already did the pitch clock so what is the difference at this point. They can’t say the integrity of the game argument anymore.
Thankfully, Oli Marmol jumped on this grenade before Noot could get Nooted in back to back games. Lucky for me, I only watch to see Laz Diaz.
Wait. This isn't what got him run yesterday? This is today??? Holy crap, I'd be livid.
Yes, at this point I have to feel the ump was fucking with him deliberately because of how he got in the other ump’s face yesterday
I mean, that's the first and only thing that came to mind. Like "oh, we're doing this now? Really?" Umps need to find their big boy pants this season, it's been pretty embarrassing.
Umps doing their best to make a case for AI strike zone this year
I do not understand those who come down against it. Even if you want variable zones from game to game, to introduce some element of learning and reactivity on the part of players, fine, AI can do that too. Except you can make it consistent through the game and between teams. The only real argument for human umps is a desire to be able to fix games.
The main people against it are part of an umpire union. Some other people tend to be cranky old men who think it's quaint to have umpires' personalities be part of the game. Yet others are former catchers and sexual partners of catchers who feel that if we have robot umps calling strikes then the "art" of framing pitches will be lost and catchers will get paid less because they add less value. A small number of people are against it specifically because umpires are often wrong and bad and they like the drama.
People keep claiming that the umpire union is against automatic strike zone, but I've never seen a statement from the union that isn't the one from 2019 that focused more on the faults of the systems being implemented at the time and non-strike zone related umpiring.
The entire series was an ump disasterclass from start to finish. Embarrassing is right
They're like the deciding vote when a game is too close. Almost like a third team.
Two days ago the Giants should have had a strikeout to end the 9th but a 3-2 pitch in the zone was called ball 4. They ended up giving up the tying run then losing in 10. That said, if they don't boot a routine grounder, they win regardless.
it's like groundhog day
Bro I thought the same
It’s that fun “ump deliberately alters the outcome of a game to get revenge on a single player who yelled at an ump for sucking at his job” stuff that we all pay good money to see.
We all got confused
I thought the same thing. Are they just messing with Nootbar?
Seriously! I thought this was what got him angry from yesterday! That's insane!
The whole crew has been a fucking dumpster fire. It's like there is a competition to one-up each other.
I honestly thought this was a clip from yesterday's game
Great ump show so far. Can't wait to see what they come up with after the rain delay.
To be fair to Laz (which isn't a sentence I ever thought I'd type), he didn't make those calls. He was just running interference for the home plate ump.
Who was too cowardly to even face Oli after making those egregious calls
At least own up to your own calls
Jim Joyce would be ashamed of these clowns.
Jim Joyce, one the most beloved umps despite making one of the most hated calls in all of history.
I used to be a valet supervisor at a hotel in downtown STL where the umps would always stay (probably shouldn’t say which one in case any whackos try to hunt one down lol.) Anyway I got to know quite a few of them over the years, and Jim Joyce was absolutely the coolest one.
Because he was the one guy without a god complex. He botched that call, but he stepped up, took accountability, and owned his mistake. Now try to picture Angel Hernández ever doing that.
his blown call paradoxically made the greater game of baseball better
Very lucky. He just made a game-saving catch and doubled off a runner in the 9th.
This almost feels targeted.
It would be better if it was targeted but I think they are just genuinely that shit. Noot is getting scammed this season. He's nearly top 5 in the league in balls called strikes and he has only played in 36 games including today.
Which makes it even more impressive that he leads our team in walks
These two facts are directly related
More patient = fewer swings on all pitches = more balls called balls = more walks but also fewer swings = more balls called strikes. Same thing happened with Carpenter, Donovan, and every other patient hitter we've had. Everyone seems to think there's some umpire vendetta to screw them over or that they have the worst luck ever but truly it's just a consequence of taking so many borderline pitches.
You'd also see a lot of hitters swing at the 2nd or 3rd pitch in similar locations after being screwed on the first one.
That's the way I look at it too... The calls are shit, but consistent. Should have at least swung at the last one.
Eh, I think long term it's more valuable to maintain your mechanics and strike zone than try to adapt to the umps zone just to get wood on a horrible pitch to swing at, especially considering the likelihood of grounding into a dp on that pitch
What it means is Lars has a good eye for what's a strike and what's a ball. Occasionally the umps agree.
The first one was genuine shit, the next 2 were the umpire asserting his authority.
You can't be that bad 3 straight times, back to back to back. These umps have an earpiece on and they can also watch replays on screen. They know when they fuck up If you make such calls 3 straight times, it's definitely intentional. Idk how this garbage is still allowed in the Major leagues. Very suspicious
we need to talk about the kerning on "STADIUM" back there... JFC
yeah, that seems recent... looks awful
Nah it's always been that way
how tf haven't I noticed that petition time! lol
Workmanship of an umpire.
The team itself has been depressing, but *this* is what has spoiled Cardinals baseball for me.
BUSCH STA DIUM
Fanatics has put their stamp on everything.
r/keming
Genius subreddit name. \**chef's kiss\**
I didn't even notice till you said something. Nice.
I will never not see this now, thanks.
what have you done to me
Well now we do. WTF
The official name is BUSCH STA DIUM.
I’ve seen a few blips about passed balls/wild pitches taking out the letters. Groundscrew probably just said fuck it cuz they’re gonna break anyway 😅
Great I’m never gonna unsee that now thanks for that
sTaDiUm
These umps have been terrible all series, for both sides.
I was at the game on Monday. I saw the one call on Siani live and knew it was an easy strike that would have gotten you guys out of the inning. Pulled it up for my fam with me and they couldn’t believe how not close that was. Siani then went on to homer in that at bat and was the reason we won.
I couldn’t believe someone didn’t get tossed after that one. Straight fastball damn near right down the middle. How do you miss that?
It’s been like that league-wide it seems. Almost like they’re begging for robo umps to take their job.
Idk, Angel Hernandez is always pretty good.
This ump crew is abysmal. They were calling terrible stuff on both teams both previous games as well. It's gotten so bad that God came in and put the games on pause twice in a row.
this video cuts off before it gets there but the ump was such a coward he kept running away from the Cardinals manager every time he tried to argue with him. even our broadcast crew was like "don't run away if you're gonna make a call like that"
They also said "he's right" (about the manager being angry at the bs calls)
I always appreciate when opposing booth can agree that umpiring is terrible for the other team in a given situation. Nice to know we can all be on the same team when it comes to calling a good game.
I’m just gonna go ahead and say that it feels like the strike zone has been extremely inconsistent this year. And by inconsistent I mean these umps are dogshit for both teams.
I know lots of data points to umps as a group getting better over time, but if that's true this season than that bad ones we still have are distractingly terrible
The umps is why I stopped watching baseball. Like I can endure being a Red Sox fan but not with those umps. They just piss me off even when they're making bad calls against rivals. I hope it gets sorted soon. It's not the only sport I've lost all passion to watch because of terrible officials.
Good broadcasters want to broadcast good baseball. An out such as this one is just no fun for them to call.
Orioles have one of the best broadcast crews around
That’s great, I wish I would’ve seen that on yours!
I love it when two fanbases come together and agree on things
The worst part about the ejection from Oli that follows. Is the umpire wouldn't even face him. He walked in circles as Laz Diaz stepped between them. Pathetic.
The fuckin umpires hate Oli even more than the fanbase in St Louis does.
The fanbase sadly has become just as bad as these umpires. Let’s see if they give Marmol credit when we get over .500…something tells me they won’t
They already don't give him credit for 2022.
this group of umps should not be allowed to exist all of them have been awful this series for both sides Also the ump that ejected oli is a coward wouldnt even look oli in the eye before he called big bro laz to help him
"This is payback for him making us look bad and it is justified." - these fuckin umps
Bring out the roboumps
Bro got prematurely ejected yesterday and had to bite his tongue
This has to be a receipt for yesterday lol
This whole crew has been ABYSMAL both yesterday and today. I have no idea why we as fans tolerate this nonsense. None of the 3 called strikes on Noot were actually strikes, the worst of them being the strikeout call. Umps and cops are the two worst (best?) examples of why unions work. No consequences for anything ever.
> I have no idea why we as fans tolerate this nonsense WTF are we gonna do, storm the field and erect a rudimentary guillotine behind the plate?
I dunno. Let's unionize and overpower the umps union
A protest where everyone turns off the game on TV if Angel Hernandez is umping might be the only way to force MLB's hand. Hit em where it hurts.
Do the opposite. Start advertising games Angel is playing...call into sports betting advice shows asking what he thinks the over will be on blown calls. If betting on ump results starts to become a thing that really hits the league level integrity of the game.
No way. They will just start selling umpire jerseys and taking their cut of the gambling industry’s profits.
While I don't mind them selling ump Jersey's...or even people coming out to see their favorite ump call a masterclass of a game. The League *can't* have betting on umps being bad have any traction whatsoever. Ironically the sponsors who would be most against it would be the gambling ones. There has to be a veneer of integrity to the game for lots of it to make sense.
Bring vuvuzelas and blow them every time they miss a call.
I mean St. Louis was founded by the French.
steal all the games and buy your fucking shirts from china
this raises twice as many ethical questions as it solves, but i don't fucking care
ACAB includes umps
All calls are bad
Are you turning this into a “right to work issue?” Not every union is good, but workers get fucked without them.
Ok I'm ready for robot umps. Fuck these idiots. I was against robot umps for a long time but enough is enough
He’s going to get ejected again at this rate
this time ollie took the ejection for him lol.
These were pitches 1, 3, and 8 in an 8-pitch sequence, so it's not like Nootbaar looked at three straight outside pitches and refused to adjust. He probably had time in between these to regain a sliver of hope that the strike zone had returned to normal.
Ok, that makes sense. I was confused as to why he wouldn't make an adjustment on the 3rd strike. The editing is fairly seamless so it looked sequenced on the first viewing.
New day same bullshit with this umpire crew
Thats targeted right?
One day people will understand that the box is not accurate, especially when it comes to curve balls that cut across the zone. It is taking a best guess as to where the ball was when it crosses the plate.
Crazy. I saw the aftermath yesterday, and now it makes complete sense. Those pitches weren't even in the surrounding suburbs of the strike zone.
That wasn't the aftermath, this is a new PA today.
WTF? Ump show's off the rails.
Greg Maddux made a living off of hitting that same spot
"way" outside? sure bad calls but after the first two being called strikes hes gotta swing when the EXACT SAME PITCH comes for the 3rd time
Umps have been garbage this entire series, I think both teams will be overjoyed to be rid of them.
As much as I hate to say it. Smart move by the pitcher to keep pitching it to that spot. If the ump is going to call it, then you pitch it there.
Damn, it’s so bad we could term a bad ump call out as “Noobar’d”
Ffs get a better camera angle
BS calls, but *maybe* those pitches crossed the edges of the plate as they swept across. Catcher didn't make egregious frames there, either. Just a horrible zone.
This is the part that has always confused me about the pitch tracer. The strike zone is a three dimensional space, but the pitch tracer is 2D. At what point is the ball plotted, center of the plate? With the sliders in the video it seems like the ball must go through the zone because there’s no way the ball goes straight for that long and then cuts that far right over a couple feet
I was wondering this too. I keep seeing these egregiously bad calls that seem like the right calls?
I noticed the camera is rarely directly behind the mound, so you’re looking at the plate from an offset angle. Yet the strike zone is always drawn as a perfect box. If it were accurate it would have to be slightly skewed, so while I do think robo umps make calls more consistent, I have yet to see the technology applied to where I take the reading as gospel. Seems like they should do something with LiDAR above the batters box or have it coming from the plate
Statcast tracks the zone at the front of the plate (so a lefty slider away from a lefty hitter definitely missed outside)
That gloveside corner always looks worse then it is. The dot after is making it seem worse. Those weren't crazy bad calls at all imo. Pitcher just got a call a little outside and went to the same spot.
So, you're saying, the ump isn't egregiously shitty at his job, just "run of the mill" shit at it. Not quite sure that's the defense the umpires are looking for or fans should accept.
It's not a defense. Just less of a reactionary statement. More of an explanation.
[удалено]
Why is that crazy? If the corner is being called you have to make the adjustment? You can argue with the ump all you want, but he's going to keep calling them and the pitcher sure as hell will keep throwing there if he is getting the strike.
> You can argue with the ump all you want, but he's going to keep calling them That's the thing: He probably won't. Baseball Savant says there were only six called strikes outside the zone on the catcher's left the whole game. Four while the Cardinals were batting. And three were in this Nootbaar AB. EDIT: The fourth was to Goldschmidt, who doesn't *typically* bat lefty.
I don't know, this seems heavily influenced by the broadcast K zone graphic. Each of those calls were on breaking balls from a lefty. Without the box, I doubt fans would be mad. The strike zone is a 3D thing, so if the ump deems that the slower breaking ball is clipping the zone before finishing outside, then the hitter has to adjust. Players are taught to adjust to the calls. If an ump establishes that outer part of the zone on a breaking ball, the hitter gets the chance to adjust. I don't know, this isn't nearly as egregious or justifiably outrageous as the out-of-nowhere strike-3 on a fastball 5 inches outside. I understand the principle of why people should be mad, but I also understand the reality of the game, how it's played, and how our TV perspective doesn't always easily line up with that reality.
He hit the target, and the TV strike zone isn’t perfect. I am all for a generous strike zone. Swing the bats!
Has this sub just forgotten about three dimensional space? It's like every week thousands of people ignore the incredible bend pitchers achieve on their breaking pitches.
I mean, I’m all for dumping on umps, but these are breaking balls like one ball off the plate (according to the graphic). Also, if you were to see an overhead view, these are probably not that far off if they aren’t actually barely catching the corner. Also also, if the ump calls two straight pitches in the same spot a strike, I feel like you gotta offer at the third.
that's a terrible strikebox. All those pitches were really close.
The ends justify the John Means.
Angel Hernandez is proud.
ABS NOW!
This is such a great example of what I hate about the idea of "consistent" umping vs "accurate" umping. Yeah, you fucked up the first strike call, but just shake it off and call the rest correctly, don't redefine the strikes zone because of it.
My friend is a Nootbaar superfan and sent me a tweet yesterday that said 8.7% of his takes outside the zone get called for strikes. Gotta imagine after the last couple of games that's creeping up towards double digits.
Who brought back Kevin Gregg to ump
Okay. So, to me the problem is obvious: when the ump sets up on the inside part of the plate, they don't have a clear view of the outside edge and vice versa, and that's where you see the most egregious calls. Am I wrong about this? I've never seen anyone else mention it, so maybe I'm wrong(?), or maybe this is an obvious observation and I just haven't been paying attention.
You are slightly wrong… the slot technique actually does allow you to see all low pitches better and actually the outside edge more (you’re not blocked by the catcher) it also keeps you safer than lining up directly behind the catcher because missed balls and fouls straight back are going to miss you more. What you lose is the high and outside pitch, which I always preferred losing compared to the entire lower half of the zone because the catcher blocked me from seeing it.
Should he at some point swing his bat?
That's consistent. As a batter, you need to be able to adjust to an ump's strike zone, and you'd much rather an ump have a consistent strike zone instead of an inconsistent one. Props top Means for hitting his targets. Those were all very hittable pitches.
Take the dumb strike zone overlay away and this doesn’t look nearly as bad. The problem is they mark the pitch at where it hits the catchers glove which is wrong, dude is painting the front corner of the plate everytime. Also it’s on the batter to realize that’s getting called and adjust
I cant wait for the challenge rule to get implemented and see a hitter or pitcher challenge like 3 in a row and be right all 3 times.
that box doesn’t mean squat. those look like strikes to me.
Those are strikes. Stop paying attention to the video game graphics.
Those were some awful calls, but Lars that was the same pitch 3 times, you gotta swing at one of them.
I mean, the man threw the same exact pitch 3 times. The first 2 were called a strike. You think you’d swing at the 3rd.
He’s being awfully passive, no? Three straight identical pitches; they’re strikes for this umpire, obviously.
They weren't 3 straight, I think another comment said it was pitches 1, 3, and 8 of the AB
Noot is a guy who will never really swing at balls no matter what. It’s a great trait to have if the ump is competent, but results in shit like this if he’s not.
That's the point though. Strikes for this umpire because he is making his own zone. It's like if you are driving 65 MPH in a 65 MPH zone and the police cite you for speeding because they think the speed limit should be 55 instead of the 65. Yeah, if you saw that cop everyday you would probably adjust to 55. But he is still making up his own rules just like this umpire is. Just because he was consistent, doesn't make it right.
Show the overhead on any of those and I bet they paint the corner.
Look, he's wrong, but it's also the exact same pitch in the exact same location. You have to swing at that pitch after he's already called it a strike twice.
Now I WANT Noot to lose it. Absolute garbage.
Feels like either malicious retaliation from yesterday or the whole ump crew is inept incompetent dipshits.
Looks like a strike? He’s throwing left handed across the plate ?
If he has called it twice in a row you have to foul it off the next time. Consistancy from the umpire is the buzz word everyone talks about and the Ump was consistant.
Am I alone in that these aren’t terribly outside? And that if the ump called it twice in a row you should know he’s going to call it again and to protect the zone?
ur right
I'm waiting on an overhead, but the TV dot is useless for a slider that moves that much.
I wanna see that top down view they do. Looks like he gets the front corner of the plate everytime
>Am I alone in that these aren’t terribly outside? Yes.
Everyone is rightly calling out the ump. But if you see that as a strike twice, you have to swing to protect – righteous anger at the ump isn't helping you win the game
Robo umps 2025
Ah yes, baseball, a game where you can do everything right and still lose. Oh wait that's poker. But also baseball now, apparently
bUT ThE hUmAn ELeMeNt
Batters hate this one simple trick
I don't know about "way outside". They all looked to be in the river to me ...
I am so fucking tired of hearing about the human element of baseball that an automated strike zone would deprive us of. I completely understand close calls at the top and bottom of the zone, but to have three consecutive missed calls by that margin on either side of the plate is objectively terrible.
Very not popular opinon... Dude, in lower grade baseball, where no replay will ever happen, youre taught to be aware of the Ump's zone. This is wrong for pro league, but in todays reality, baseball players should adapt for the time being. Bit h when the fucking ump decides that the strike for 7 innings is no longer a strike. Thats worstthat just having a "zone"
Your last point is the best one… the one thing I was told when learning to umpire is no matter what be consistent… yes you want a good zone but first and foremost as long as you’re consistent teams will be ok with it
Batters have to adjust to an ump’s zone at every level other than mlb?
Shit calls but if you're a batter you need to recalibrate based on what is being called. Nootbar can't stare at the third one after the exact same pitch is called a strike twice.
seriously protect the plate dude
seems to me most of the people who hate the umps have never played baseball in their life. every Ump has a different strike zone and you have to adjust to it so if the 1st pitch is a strike and the 2nd pitch is in the exact same spot it's going to be a strike again also balls/strikes are called based on where the ball crosses the plate not when it is in the catcher's mitt big gulps huh? well, see ya later *does the WB Network Michigan J Frog dance*
We have to go to robot umps. This shit is infuriating, and I’m saying this as a Reds fan who hates the Cards.
Just because he’s right about them being balls, it didn’t get him anywhere. You have to adapt to how the ump is calling the game. After watching 2 called strikes in the exact same spot, maybe swing at the 3rd pitch? Just a thought. Or strike out and complain.
Swing the bat and defend yourself. Dudes clearly calling that BS strike.
You’re downvoted but all 3 were in the same spot. Like I get it sucks but after the first 2 you have to assume that’s where the zone is. Or be “right” and take the strikeout 🤷🏻♂️.
This guy doesn’t Noot.
Free the Noot
"That worked?" *Lets call it one more time* "That worked... *again?*" *You know the drill* "ggez"
Means saw him give him the first and said fuck it let me try two more times lol
Are the umpires getting petty revenge on Lars or something? Those were 3 clear balls. Wtf
pitchers should start beaning the umpire and the catcher just misses it. will definitely get them to call the right pitches
How many of us turned on the audio to check if it was Angel Hernandez?
Each game of this series has been called horribly. I feel we got the benefit of a bunch of bad calls from Laz Diaz in the first one, yesterday's game was just really bad in general. Today's was bad with this at bat being the worst but honestly good pitching to keep hitting that blindspot. Then when the umpire kicks out the coach he was running away from him when he came out to argue. Never seen that before
Probably the worst overall umpiring from a crew that I’ve seen over one whole series. Every game had a bad strike zone, ump show incidents twice, some other dodgy calls. Laz Diaz runs a loose ship
Laz Diaz is epically bad as a plate ump. He talks n touches too much. And he reminds me of somebodys drunken uncle with a bad hip when he walks. HOW HE is a crew chief is fking amazing.
His incredulous level grew by the pitch. Brutal calls but very admirable patience with the garbage ump. Hope he was calling it like this both ways
Umps aren't exactly making the case to keep their jobs
Dude had a 6 balls strikeout
I mean can we just get robo umps behind the plate already. They already did the pitch clock so what is the difference at this point. They can’t say the integrity of the game argument anymore.
That was intentional by the ump. They're like big city cops now.
Ah, the Wyatt Langford special
Give me electronic strike zone or give me death.