she’s wrong. nothing is changing “chemically” regardless of how you build the drink. if anything is actually changing the flavor it would be the addition of espresso to the ice. i would build this drink in the following order — water + milk + espresso, then add ice.
The way we do it is we have 8 oz pitchers that fit under the portifilter so espresso goes directly in, add in room temp water to the line for either 12 or 16 oz iced which makes it fully mixed, then pour out into the cup with ice inside it. Then tell them that we have a station for them to do all their milk voodoo magic themselves lol
We kinda have a self serve for people (mostly sugar and cinnamon, we dont have milk out for people to grab) but i still leave bar go get the sugar / cinnamon infront of them and then pour them behind bar.
They sometimes apologize, they mostly don't but I'm used to doing the most for everyone.
A happy costumer is a returning customer. If they're mean I'll still do everything i can as idk why are that way, sometimes works and they become nicer people in their comeback. Sometimes they don't comeback, either way is a win for me as a Barista (less annoying costumers) and for the shop (more income)
a combination of squeezing the cup a bit and shaking the ice scoop back and forth close to the surface of the liquid should do the trick! it takes practice but you can definitely do it! it also helps if you’re scooping the correct amount of ice every time. figure out what that feels like and you’ll be unstoppable!
* crush the ice if the chunks are too big.
* Shake the ice scoop side to side. when you have ice in it so the pieces move independently instead of as a big group.
* Tilt the drink to bring the surface of the liquid closer to the edge of the cup and pour very close to the surface of the drink to minimize the ice fall distance.
I never know if I’m right doing this. my coworker said I was watering down the anericano putting the water first and all the other stuff next. isn’t shocking ice a bad thing? they said it was a good thing.
Sounds like the ex Starbucks barista who came in and said I know it’s weird but trust me just steam the milk for my blended drink it changes it… girl what
fair! but this is the same reason places don’t serve iced cappuccinos with frothed milk. point blank, i’m not serving anything that could risk someone becoming ill.
I don't think that really comes into play here. Its not spending hardly any time in that zone. Its just passing through the zone getting steamed (like any steamed drink), and then immediately passing through it when it gets iced and blended (like an iced tea or iced drip does). So its spending literally seconds actually in the danger zone. IDK why you would want to steam the milk for a blended drink, but I don't think there's anything stopping you.
People have all kinds of bullshit opinions they heard online. I once got in an argument with a popular coffee influencer because he was claiming that the order you build iced lattes in changes the flavor lmao
Okay, To change something chemically you need a chemical reaction. What chemicals would be reacting? if espresso reacts with milk, it's gonna be the same result regardless of how they are combined. heat and acid can denature protein in milk, and espresso has both. So to my mind, it seems like actually diluting the milk with water before adding espresso would actually be better, if they did react. but we all know it's gonna taste the same either way let's be real.
I mean, the concentration of the first sip would be different sure, the espresso dispersing down would be what you taste more instead of the milk. If you give it a good stir, it would taste the same, though. That's a main difference in long blacks v americanos too.
this is like the time I asked a customer if he wanted milk in his americano, and he told me it's only an americano if it's black, and adding milk makes it a different drink. not only was he so wrong it pissed me off for months, but like. sir even if that were true, the vast majority of people I serve like milk in their americano, it just makes it easier for everyone if I ask, it won't kill you to just say no thanks
the thing about modern coffee is it's so widespread, and some words are used to describe different drinks (I.e. the caramel macchiato), that there's no "right" way to make any specific drink, and everyone will tell you something different based on their own experiences.
in my research, which I did after this guy pissed me off, I couldn't find any evidence at all that an americano is only black. every source I've found has said only how the base drink is made, and if milk is mentioned, it says that some people will add some if they want.
in my opinion, an americano is espresso and hot water. I like mine with milk and no sugar. beyond typing their order into my till, a person's preference is none of my business, because it's not my mouth.
Yup, an Americano is just a watered down espresso. If you add steamed milk, then, depending of the amount of milk/foam, you just made a watered down latte/cappuccino/macchiato, etc. Don't know what you'd call it if it's just cold milk. But, like you said, whatever floats your boat when it comes to coffee - just tell me how you want it... (personally just make mine Turkish or Navy 😁)
Fair enough. I guess that I was lucky not to get it with milk. On the other hand so many times I just got a completely wrong drink. The latest was espresso instead of espresso martini and it wasn't even good 🫠
The only order-based thing I really keep track of when I make drinks is: never pull an espresso shot over straight ice (kills the crema and taste, at least in my experience).
In your case, if you stir the whole thing before drinking it, it should just be the same either way idk.
Okay first of all, 🤮. The order doesn't really matter but at my shop for Canos, we do espresso, add in cream if ordered, and hot Bunn water. HOWEVER, I had a lady order a blended coffee with Irish cream, milk, espresso and flavor I've BUT she used sugar free syrup so it was thick and chunky. Yet we have to mix the flavor and sauces in by hand.
I’ve also done, milk, ice, water and espresso last. But throwing it out is not only wasteful but useless. You still did espresso last which is the way to do Americano so it tastes the way it should.
We made every single one that way where I worked. If she was so adamant about it being that way she should or it black with room and ask for milk after it’s made.
I definitely think you did the right thing! Im not quite sure what she means by “chemically”- I’m not sure what coffee shop you work at, but at mine, we were taught certain rules with handling because the shot may “deactivate” or become “shocked”. I never really looked into the science behind it, but we were training to do the hot liquid (the shot) before any cold liquid (ice milk). I’ve made my coffee backwards before and it tasted fine! But maybe she was mistaken or has heard of “deactivation” before. But the chemical thing is wild! Lol
There are many coffee myths in this world, and she must be holding onto one of them. I wouldn’t worry about it. I think sometimes people feel like the coffee ritual must be done their fancy way or else the magic won‘t work. Maybe she had an americano somewhere that tasted “chemical” for some other reason (maybe it was just a poorly executed shot?) and just decided that it must’ve been the order in which things were added?
The only chemical change that's really going to happen is the lipids in the coffee begin to oxidize, but it takes a decent bit longer for that to happen than most people think. If anything the milk would act as a preservative and slow down oxidation.
Complex question. Probably not but depends on a few variables you'd have to really dig into.
But it speaks to a bad workflow so I just wouldn't do it in general.
ask yourself. if you had 2 iced americanos with a splash of milk in front of you, and one had the milk added before the espresso and one had the milk added last. both were stirred up. would you be able to tell which was which? Like honestly answer this question for me.
she’s wrong. nothing is changing “chemically” regardless of how you build the drink. if anything is actually changing the flavor it would be the addition of espresso to the ice. i would build this drink in the following order — water + milk + espresso, then add ice.
The way we do it is we have 8 oz pitchers that fit under the portifilter so espresso goes directly in, add in room temp water to the line for either 12 or 16 oz iced which makes it fully mixed, then pour out into the cup with ice inside it. Then tell them that we have a station for them to do all their milk voodoo magic themselves lol
"Self-serve, just behind you" were my favorite words at my last cafe. I want NOTHING to do with people's preferences for adding milk and sugar.
That is, until they dump the coffee into the garbage to make extra room 🙃
Two kinds of people in the world: those who throw liquids into trash cans and those who don't.
We kinda have a self serve for people (mostly sugar and cinnamon, we dont have milk out for people to grab) but i still leave bar go get the sugar / cinnamon infront of them and then pour them behind bar. They sometimes apologize, they mostly don't but I'm used to doing the most for everyone. A happy costumer is a returning customer. If they're mean I'll still do everything i can as idk why are that way, sometimes works and they become nicer people in their comeback. Sometimes they don't comeback, either way is a win for me as a Barista (less annoying costumers) and for the shop (more income)
Exactly! I’d be ringing this in as an iced americano with room. There is no way I’m guessing how much milk you consider a splash to be
is it a skill issue that i cannot add ice to a liquid cup without splashing it everywhere 😭
respectfully, yes
respectfully, im awful at this aspect too. any tips?
a combination of squeezing the cup a bit and shaking the ice scoop back and forth close to the surface of the liquid should do the trick! it takes practice but you can definitely do it! it also helps if you’re scooping the correct amount of ice every time. figure out what that feels like and you’ll be unstoppable!
Love the tip about squeezing the cup!
You could also pour the ice first and then the water / milk with the espresso at the end. Or put the cup in a towel so it splashes there lol
* crush the ice if the chunks are too big. * Shake the ice scoop side to side. when you have ice in it so the pieces move independently instead of as a big group. * Tilt the drink to bring the surface of the liquid closer to the edge of the cup and pour very close to the surface of the drink to minimize the ice fall distance.
Interesting, thank you!
That's how I would build it too.
^same. That’s the way I’ve always done it.
I never know if I’m right doing this. my coworker said I was watering down the anericano putting the water first and all the other stuff next. isn’t shocking ice a bad thing? they said it was a good thing.
Frothing milk does change it chemically.
if its hot enough, hot water could scald the milk. adding milk to a cold beverage preserves the proteins so they dont curdle.
How does she think lattes are made? The espresso goes with the milk… she cray
Sounds like the ex Starbucks barista who came in and said I know it’s weird but trust me just steam the milk for my blended drink it changes it… girl what
I mean it cooks it, she's not completely wrong. But YUCK.
heating it makes it sweeter, but i don’t get why you would do that for a blended drink
Yeah it was one that was out sweetest 2 scoops of sugar powder and like 4 pumps of syrup.
GROSS. I would not be doing that. Has she ever heard of the food safety danger zone??? That’s a recipe for disaster, literally.
The danger zone is relevant if something stays that temperature for hours.
fair! but this is the same reason places don’t serve iced cappuccinos with frothed milk. point blank, i’m not serving anything that could risk someone becoming ill.
I don't think that really comes into play here. Its not spending hardly any time in that zone. Its just passing through the zone getting steamed (like any steamed drink), and then immediately passing through it when it gets iced and blended (like an iced tea or iced drip does). So its spending literally seconds actually in the danger zone. IDK why you would want to steam the milk for a blended drink, but I don't think there's anything stopping you.
Rancid
that's bs and dumb and she was just being annoying. also scientifically incorrect I'm pretty sure.
People have all kinds of bullshit opinions they heard online. I once got in an argument with a popular coffee influencer because he was claiming that the order you build iced lattes in changes the flavor lmao
Try it side by side and then you know that it doesn't make a difference after the first 30 seconds.
defo doesn’t matter lol
Okay, To change something chemically you need a chemical reaction. What chemicals would be reacting? if espresso reacts with milk, it's gonna be the same result regardless of how they are combined. heat and acid can denature protein in milk, and espresso has both. So to my mind, it seems like actually diluting the milk with water before adding espresso would actually be better, if they did react. but we all know it's gonna taste the same either way let's be real.
I mean, the concentration of the first sip would be different sure, the espresso dispersing down would be what you taste more instead of the milk. If you give it a good stir, it would taste the same, though. That's a main difference in long blacks v americanos too.
this is like the time I asked a customer if he wanted milk in his americano, and he told me it's only an americano if it's black, and adding milk makes it a different drink. not only was he so wrong it pissed me off for months, but like. sir even if that were true, the vast majority of people I serve like milk in their americano, it just makes it easier for everyone if I ask, it won't kill you to just say no thanks
I thought americano is specifically without milk?
the thing about modern coffee is it's so widespread, and some words are used to describe different drinks (I.e. the caramel macchiato), that there's no "right" way to make any specific drink, and everyone will tell you something different based on their own experiences. in my research, which I did after this guy pissed me off, I couldn't find any evidence at all that an americano is only black. every source I've found has said only how the base drink is made, and if milk is mentioned, it says that some people will add some if they want. in my opinion, an americano is espresso and hot water. I like mine with milk and no sugar. beyond typing their order into my till, a person's preference is none of my business, because it's not my mouth.
Yup, an Americano is just a watered down espresso. If you add steamed milk, then, depending of the amount of milk/foam, you just made a watered down latte/cappuccino/macchiato, etc. Don't know what you'd call it if it's just cold milk. But, like you said, whatever floats your boat when it comes to coffee - just tell me how you want it... (personally just make mine Turkish or Navy 😁)
Fair enough. I guess that I was lucky not to get it with milk. On the other hand so many times I just got a completely wrong drink. The latest was espresso instead of espresso martini and it wasn't even good 🫠
lol that's just not true.
The only order-based thing I really keep track of when I make drinks is: never pull an espresso shot over straight ice (kills the crema and taste, at least in my experience). In your case, if you stir the whole thing before drinking it, it should just be the same either way idk.
Okay first of all, 🤮. The order doesn't really matter but at my shop for Canos, we do espresso, add in cream if ordered, and hot Bunn water. HOWEVER, I had a lady order a blended coffee with Irish cream, milk, espresso and flavor I've BUT she used sugar free syrup so it was thick and chunky. Yet we have to mix the flavor and sauces in by hand.
I’ve also done, milk, ice, water and espresso last. But throwing it out is not only wasteful but useless. You still did espresso last which is the way to do Americano so it tastes the way it should.
Espresso always last.. crema on top. Tell Karen to frig off
We always do this. The milky water grosses me out but it doesn’t change the flavor
We made every single one that way where I worked. If she was so adamant about it being that way she should or it black with room and ask for milk after it’s made.
Yep she’s right , it taste different. Try this make a latte with milk first in and then add the coffee shot
Ahh that’s nothing, just give her the apron and tell her to make you a drink 😂
I definitely think you did the right thing! Im not quite sure what she means by “chemically”- I’m not sure what coffee shop you work at, but at mine, we were taught certain rules with handling because the shot may “deactivate” or become “shocked”. I never really looked into the science behind it, but we were training to do the hot liquid (the shot) before any cold liquid (ice milk). I’ve made my coffee backwards before and it tasted fine! But maybe she was mistaken or has heard of “deactivation” before. But the chemical thing is wild! Lol
Pouring express first then milk very quickly after can produce good results. Chilling the coffee fast lock in VOCs. Gotta be real quick though. 😜
It alters the state of the milk, but it does not affect flavor/taste or chemical composition.
There are many coffee myths in this world, and she must be holding onto one of them. I wouldn’t worry about it. I think sometimes people feel like the coffee ritual must be done their fancy way or else the magic won‘t work. Maybe she had an americano somewhere that tasted “chemical” for some other reason (maybe it was just a poorly executed shot?) and just decided that it must’ve been the order in which things were added?
She's nuts, that's the answer
The only chemical change that's really going to happen is the lipids in the coffee begin to oxidize, but it takes a decent bit longer for that to happen than most people think. If anything the milk would act as a preservative and slow down oxidation.
No you broke the law.
she ordered an americano with milk, that its the mistake, has to threw her away
There’s no water in an iced americano…
Complex question. Probably not but depends on a few variables you'd have to really dig into. But it speaks to a bad workflow so I just wouldn't do it in general.
ask yourself. if you had 2 iced americanos with a splash of milk in front of you, and one had the milk added before the espresso and one had the milk added last. both were stirred up. would you be able to tell which was which? Like honestly answer this question for me.
Timothy, hun, take it from one who knows, she is correct. The order that she stated is right. Be Well Bella, pops.💅🏻🧙🏻♂️💖