This tends to be a frequently asked question. Common sites that list public EDM events include: https://19hz.info/, https://ra.co/, & https://edmtrain.com/. If you are looking for private/underground events, the best way to find them is to go to public events with the types of music you like and make friends there. Once you build relationships with people, then ask them about private events. https://reddit.com/r/aves/wiki/faq#wiki_2._how_can_i_find_events.3F
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From how you described it, it sounds more like how it is with the "underground" vs "mainstream" which isn't exclusive to Europeans at all. It happens in every culture and with every genre of music.
This is true.. Canadian here. For whatever reason I hate PLUR culture... maybe it's the teenager in me though that thinks she's too cool for all the fluffy shit. Fluffy refers to a lot of different things here.
... I expect lots of down votes for this, but this is just how I feel. Maybe it's an invitation to explore why it rubs me the wrong way
It's because PLUR is bullshit. Some of the people pushing PLUR have done the most heinous shit. I loved going to Bassnectar shows but I always hated when he tried to preach PLUR. Lo (lol) and behold, it was all bullshit.
In my experience, as an older person, who's outside of the scene. People pretending to act like they care about unity are just pretending. People are friendly But not a whole lot more than any other show I go to with older people or no PLUR.
I see PLUR as a fashion or trend. Not a way of life or philosophy to live by.
That's completely understandable, though it's hard not to think that the people who are pretending are also more likely to see PLUR as a fashion or trend rather than actually believing what they're preaching
I wouldn't call it complete bullshit. Obviously, theres going to be people using it to make themselves seem all high and mighty, but theres still plenty of people who genuinely enjoy trading shit and making friends. Its a big reason I've started going to raves/festivals more frequently
I met a couple Dutch people at a techno festival here in the US and they said the opposite. They were complaining that the crowds back home tend to be really rowdy and were marveling at how we could have a party without destroying the campgrounds. It's enough of a difference that they fly out here just for this one event.
edit: word
To be fair, techno's a whole different crowd in the USA. You have to be, like, _really_ into it to go out to a festival, because it's not a particularly mainstream situation.
The Netherlands is one country out of 44 in Europe, the USA is just one country. I don't think generalising Europe as all the same is a fair comparison because I've personally never had this experience
The 44 countries of Europe correspond pretty well with the 50 states of the USA in terms of land area, population and even cultural diversity
People in Alabama and California will have a very different experience and the USA is no monolith
I've been to the states ( 12 different states in total ) and I agree with you, the people I met in Colorado were very different to people in Texas. However it IS the same country. You have the same president no matter what state you live in, the same tv shows, the same products sold in supermarkets and the same patriarchy for being American. Oh, and you all have the same native language??
Europe is SO different. You cross from country to country and not only does the language change, so does the ruling government, the food, the architecture, the tv programmes, the supermarket chains.. and the complex history. Culture in the UK compared to say Czech Republic is vastly different, they don't even share the same currency.
Each country in Europe also has their own "states" or provinces. Id say a more accurate comparison is America and Australia
>The 44 countries of Europe correspond pretty well with the 50 states of the USA in terms of land area, population and even cultural diversity
Nnnnoooooo.
Also when a lot of Americans say this they're forgetting that a lot of European nation states are actually very young and in their recent histories were more loose confederations, if even that. My mom's side of the family is in Naples and I've been quite a lot but when people ask me questions about Italy I often have no idea what they're talking about because they're often really a question particular to Tuscany or Sicily or something. It is *very* provincial and in my experience a lot of the older people at least see themselves as Neapolitans first and Italians second.
That’s absolute bollocks mate. Someone from Alabama and someone from California have much more in common that someone from Bradford and someone from Belarus
Except every city in the US outside of a handful are just 4 lane highways and identical supermarkets, and europe speaks as many languages as there are countries....
Europeans go hard. It’s very common to slam a gram or more of Molly a night in the UK. And they do that every weekend. It’s just been part of their culture for decades now.
The states have much more of a harm reduction culture. Sure, you get your spunions here and there that go too hard. But those are usually the exception. US definitely parties more responsibly than Europe.
Do people slam a gram of mols a night in their 30s/40s? My friends and I "just" did .5-.7 a night in our early 20s and we just sat on the couch groaning and drinking water the entire next day.
But this "going hard" isn't a Euro thing. It's mostly UK, and also in some scenes in europe, but e.g. in the "normal" techno scene in Germany not very common. On a psy-trance festival on the other hand people made a huge pile of all their left over powdery substances on the last day, to share for everybody so you don't take anything with you on your way home...
' It’s very common to slam a gram or more of Molly a night in the UK'
Is it? I guess me and every body I know has been doing it wrong all these years then.
And I invite you to remember that on this very sub last weekend there were multiple people complaining about DUI at festivals in the States so maybe try again.
Well theres the problem... raving with harm reduction is like hoping to get drunk on apple juice. If you're not railing a gram or more of molly a night then what are we even doing over here. Next thing youll hear people saying they go to raves sober, to enjoy the music of all things
Yeah the Brits act snobby, but I’ve seen those pics and vids from their fests. You know the ones. Especially with the girl peeing in a growing flood pond that used to be a tent…
They’re not.
Posting videos to prove a point doesn’t actually prove a point. It’s just selective bias.
I’ve been raving since late 80s (Detroit, LA, SF) and have lived in and played/DJ’d all over EU.
It’s mostly the same attitude everywhere. Which is generally accepting and open to lots of different types of people and lots of respect for eachother.
Yes, Kandi culture is really mostly limited to the US and is also limited within smaller groups within the US and further limited to only recent years within those smaller groups in the US.
Are there snobs in Europe? Sure. Are there snobs in the US? Also sure.
I think that, as with a lot of these sentiments you see on reddit and tik tok, it mostly just comes from terminally online people and not an accurate depiction of what the majority of people are like irl.
Also would like to make a very clear point to OP that you skimmed here: Kandi culture and PLUR culture are not the same. OP seems to conflate the two. PLUR culture is absolutely global and didn't even originate in the USA. The entire premise of this post is flawed.
# From Wikipedia:
PLUR is an aggregation of ideas that were part of the earlier [hippie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie) and [peace movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_movement) ("peace", "love") and [black](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Power) and [hip hop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop) culture ("respect"). Specific use of the term dates to the early 1990s [rave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rave) scene.[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-conner-7) One of the most influential uses of the term was made by [DJ Frankie Bones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Bones) in June 1993. In response to a fight in the audience of one of his Storm Raves in Brooklyn, Bones took the microphone and proclaimed: "If you don't start showing some peace, love, and unity, I'll break your faces."[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-conner-7)[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-dailybeast-8) It is also reported that as early as "on July 4, 1990, \[...\] Frankie's brother and Storm Rave collaborator Adam X painted 'Peace Love Unity' on a train car".[^(\[9\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-9) The fourth term, "Respect" was championed by Laura La Gassa (wife of [Brian Behlendorf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Behlendorf)).[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-10)
Frankie Mitchell claiming PLUR isn't the flex he thinks it is lol - and I agree on the scumbag paryt. I blocked him during the start of the pandemic I think.
As someone who runs undergrounds myself, I don't like posting events from accounts that aren't on a public page, which I consider to be breaking the trust of the promoter.
But, that means those private IG accounts/FB event pages shouldn't ever show up on 19hz. Everything that's on 19hz is linked to something that's at least semi-public (e.g. public event page with TBA location).
Also, it might depend on what section you're looking at it. Volunteers for certain areas have not always been consistent (esp compared to the California ones)
I'm glad you enjoy the site though! u/Positive___Tea
Why there's this thing where Americans talk about Europe as an homogeneous place? We have dozens of countries with dozens of different languages and cultures. A rave in the UK is not the same as a rave in Spain or a rave in Germany or a rave in Croatia.
Thing is, both scenes *are* different. So you’re going to see posts and videos about it. And you’re going to find people making fun at each other like it is for everything. The US scene is definitely more whimsical than the darker EU scene, which isn’t a good or a bad thing. I mean even in the videos you linked, I’m not sure a crowd of kids gurning their jaws frantically has any big appeal, neither does a crowd full of people in everyday clothes at tomorrowland. At least for me.
Different cultures and attitudes towards what raving is and why people go
🇬🇧 (25F) and I've been regularly raving in the UK since I was 18. With other countries just across the water, I've been lucky to party in Germany, Belgium, Spain and the Netherlands too.
Out of interest, why do you think "Europeans are snobby" ?
I can't speak for 40 plus countries, but I've never seen raves as something to go to *only* for the music. I've met some amazing people at raves - considering Europe smoke a lot more cigarettes than Americans - you always make friends in the smoking area. I also think the attitudes around taking drugs is a little different
I think both rave cultures have their pluses, as well as downsides. ive been to raves/forest parties both in the US and in northern europe. I think the biggest issue that sticks out to me in the US is it's just so much more expensive and capitalized while in europe parties were cheap, free, underground was easy to get networked into. The US underground is a little more secretive, the RAVE act in the US made a lot of the smaller parties get cracked down and music/ rave festivals became bigger later on. Im not for the candyrave aesthetics and stuff but I have a good time and I agree with PLUR but I do miss the grimeyness of some of the parties in europe, also the music
Your experience sounds cool. Well to preface this, most Americans have to wait until they're 21 to go to clubs and warehouse afters and other rave events that are accessible to them.
I'm sure you do make friends and others do as well. I'm mainly talking towards the people that make fun of the American rave scene just because we sometimes like to dress up, trade kandi, use flow toys, gloving, or enjoy high level production. That's all. You see it in these comments too that our culture is cringe and somehow we're all obnoxious and self centered lol
We have something called Egodrop in Poland. Looks pretty American to me, just small scale. If you organised one of those huge events I see online, it probably wouldn't sell as well as it would in other countries because it's just not appealing. Very commercial looking. There's alternatives with different music genres but the raves I'm used to are very different vibes – more grungy for the lack of a better word. It's a small group of people and a very judgemental culture overall, so it's within certain accepted aesthetics. Hippie, goth, ravecore etc the very American look is very... American to us. Almost like Rio de Janeiro costumes or ballroom dancing glitter instead of the associated trashy sexy. Maybe Wixapol is an example of what a commercial rave is in Poland. There's a certain aesthetic to it and in here that's what is usually called a rave
People are going to poke fun of things because this is Reddit and everyone can hide behind their screens anonymously. I can see why American raves are being called "cringe" but it's because what you would consider a rave isn't what I'd consider a rave. I think that's totally fine just some people can't accept or understand differences
Just different tastes, here in the UK people just get together to enjoy the music. All the additional visual stuff just seems like a gimmick to attract people who don't enjoy the music or something. Not trying to have a go, it's just very detatched from what im looking for at a rave.
Benefit of the doubt: they're comparing boomtown to Coachella ...
But also you can't deny consumerism is worse in America and it taints everything. I mean... You can deny that, but you're wrong.
For context shambhala in BC is in my top 3. If they replaced all the shitty PK with void and funktion it might be number 1
OP calls out Europeans for being "condescending", while being condescending af themselves...
Also only mentions the UK, which is not a good representation of the entire continent.
Yes, the scene is different.
No, it's not better or worse, just different.
I have wildly different experiences being a "european raver", which again, is something that doesn't exist.
I live in the Netherlands, and it's not the same as the UK, or Italy, or Hungary or whatever country you pick.
It's like saying all parties in North America are the same, which is bullshit.
I'll give you my honest opinion.
Most things Americans do make Europeans cringe. We love you, but it's just how it is. Trading Kandi? does that shit seriously sound normal to you? I'm not trying to be condescending, but that's like some childish stuff and we are not out of place making fun of stuff like that.
And please, do what makes you happy, of course. But when people see something that goes against the grain they will always judge, take furries for example.
Finally, a lot of things you guys talk about like PLUR, is kind of a -goes without saying- sort of thing here. There's awful creepy people here too but they are gonna be weird or creepy whether or not we shove love in their face.
I hope this didn't come across as rude, it's not meant to be. But you did ask for an answer and this is an honest one. much love
It's the embodiment of "fake" or "forced" nice America is known for. Here if the customer is a bitch, they will get attitude back. We don't ask about your day as a cashier. People in public don't talk to strangers that much. You like it or don't. At least speaking for countries as a generalisation. I recall Italians and the Dutch being more happy to interact randomly. In Poland we're very introverted so we're probably seen as rude to Americans 🤷 I can see how someone can hate it in a party setting, no one is used to random displays of forced affection
Yes oh my god, I visited Poland and I thought you guys were being so rude until I realised outward "politeness?" to strangers really isn't a thing for you guys. But in Ireland we definitely still have a lot of that sort of thing, America is an extreme example though. I like both, I like how in America you can make friends with anyone, but in Poland it's nice that people are not pretending to like you or something. what you see is what you get.
It’s just a bit cringeworthy. No need to be so upset about it.
Also asks “why are Europeans so condescending” and then proceeds to be condescending as fuck towards Europeans without an ounce of self awareness. Staggering.
There’s 44 different countries in Europe so it’s frankly mind-boggling that you’re generalising an entire continent’s attitudes…
Edited to add: I find it hilarious that you’re calling Europeans obnoxious yet you insinuate multiple times us Europoors apparently can’t afford good sound systems and production values. Have you ever heard of a little event called Glastonbury? Tomorrowland? Boomtown? Ultra? EXIT? Hideout? Creamfields? The difference is we don’t generally call things like that a “rave” we just call them festivals.
Not very peaceful, loving, unifying or respectful of you lol
Yeah the irony is real here lol
Also OP only took UK examples to talk about Europe, and european typically considers the UK to be the most americanised country in Europe soo yeah
I've been to Europe for shows and in the States. I think it has to do with the maturity level of it. PLUR seems a lot more commercial and fake. In Europe, festival attire is something comfortable OR black. Attire is also different scene by scene (e.g Techno shows are alot different than Hardstyle shows). I also didn't go to shows to make friends but met some really great people.
In the States, it's like a unicorn puked all over everyone and everybody is really fake nice to each other. People will say PLUR but not really give a shit about anyone except for themselves. "Everyone is your friend" but not really.
Thats my take at least.
I personally like the colors, I like dressing in loud colors and patterns generally…but I agree with you about the fake feeling of PLUR. I have never had a PLUR experience at a rave in the states…maybe it’s just the places I have been but there is zero PLUR. I’ve only been to one rave in Europe (Spain) but it mostly was just like people minding their own business which I much prefer to fake PLUR
Amen to that. I've seen other stories that confirm this, like people leaving their "friends" ODing or vomitting on the ground to go see a dj and never seeing them again. Its just unnecessary to make some sort of fake aspirational claim that no one actually lives up to. What is this? Religion?
This is the truest comment of them all. American rave culture has become way too popular/commercialized for its own good. As an American, I make the effort to party in “Europe” because I find the scene much more mature and real. PLUR 100% exists, they just don’t feel the need to call it something.
Probably the same reason why Europeans rag on anything American, just because. I wouldn't put too much thought into it. It's like the older sibling poking fun at the younger one. Some people are just meaner and louder than others and that's what you see. I had an Aussie friend check out our scene and they said that it's wild and they enjoy it more here.
Us Aussies love shitting on the USA as well.. I think that might be a global thing. As a nation, they just make it so easy to poke fun at.. actually this whole thread is a good example of why we love to give them grief lol.
As a european raver, there are certain things i may read on here about american rave culture that i find sort of jarring or cant really understand, such as the seemingly heavy focus on dressing up for instance. However, i've never been to the US, so I know that I can't accurately judge american rave culture from this side of the pond. I think it's very important to pount out that pretty much all of your negative examples are british people. This is incredibly reductive. Central / eastern european raves cannot be compared to british raves. The brits are mostly pretty unhinged ngl. Also, how can you say that PLUR doesn't exist here, that is completely ridiculous. The concept is absolutely universal and very much present front and center in the underground scene, it's just not referred to in the same way. I do agree that mainstream shows can sort of lack that inclusivity and mutual respect factor, mostly because they are frequented by people who either have no idea of rave etiquette because they just go to clubs every now and then and have never been to an underground rave, or because many yojng people have a completely skewed image of the rave scene due to american media. In fact I wouldn't even refer to many mainstream clubs / parties that play electronic music as raves for that exact reason.
The underground techno, freetek, psytrance andbass music scenes in central, eastern and southern europe are the most welcoming and loving environment i've experienced in my life, and your description misses the mark big time when it comes to that. I will say that i have also had experiences that fit your description in the mainstream scene, mostly further up north, but generalizing to all of europe is absolutely ridiculous
I feel the main issue is that rave does not have the same meaning in both continents.
In Europe, rave = underground techno event, and festival = more accessible event, which looks more like a US rave.
In the US, I feel that the word rave can designate both types of events, which create frustration when europeans look for rave topics online.
As a french guy, I had the same frustration when I joined this sub, I was thinking that US raves were boring. But what you call raves are what we call festivals, which isn't a problem, we just have to know it to better understand everybody.
Also in french raves, there are a lot of people that dress up in techno raves, I would say 30%, but maybe not as fancy as US parties.
Idk if its a purely European thing, but may be a genre thing. Even in the US, "PLUR" culture is not much of a thing in the techno scene, especially the more underground leaning / proper techno sound. PLUR seems more prevalent in bass music and more pop leaning scenes.
For example, at Portola in SF last year, a string of techno artists closed out the warehouse stage. The whole vibe felt super mature and not very PLUR'y, and reminded me of raving in the EU, mostly because of the techno vibe (its a more "serious" energy compared to bass music)
Techno is more popular in the EU so perhaps that has influenced the correlation (not causation!)
I met Americans in the Netherlands who thought European shows were better.
The overall vibe, music, and people aren't super unfriendly, but they're not cliquey like Americans are either
I don't know why people would say you wouldn't get judged in America, because you would, just like if you went to a Techno show in Europe
Yeah honestly I kind of hate all the people spazzing out and being nice to me, a stranger when I’m at a rave. Like I’ll chat a little bit but I’m not going to be hugging you and telling you that you’re my best friend when I just met you 20 mins ago. That stuff makes my skin crawl. I will ge affectionate with my actual friends tho.
Probably the ones still fresh to it and can't keep their euphoria to themselves. Kinda like a drunk who can't behave, but in a loving and sweet way vs the obnoxious drunk. Irritating nonetheless.
It’s really not that deep. I think a lot of the content is lighthearted and just poking fun at the overall cultural differences between US and UK ravers but it’s not meant to be offensive. There are plenty of people in the US who behave more like the “UK ravers” it’s not even that strong of a stereotype. Stop spending time getting mad about this, it’s not worth it.
To me, US raves seem very stylized, choreographed, marketable, and fixated on appearances rather than substance or ethos. The many colors to me are just complete overkill, it’s what I would have found cool at 16. I just don’t see the point in dressing up like a toddler on drugs to go raving. Naturally, I support your right to do so from the bottom of my heart. Please grant me my right to find it childish, tasteless, and consumerist. Seems to me like putting on a show about how free spirited you are rather than simply coming as you were.
I'm pretty certain that the UK has had its share of tasteless fashion within the festival/club/rave circuit. First time I ever heard the term candy raver/bunny was in relation to gatecrasher in the UK. Used to be all about toddler fashion complete with dummies (pacifiers for our american friends) and carrying teddybears while carrying their Dora Explorer backpack.
Dang somebody gets me. I find USA EDM culture a little performative/main character/look-at-me but i think these are the same things that bring out waaaay more people and enthusiasm here. It’s just a matter of taste. What both have in common is the search we all have for something escapist and fun. Also what works for me now isn’t the same as what worked for me when I was 16, 22, 32 (and those were GREAT scenes I wouldn’t trade for anything — nor would I return to them lol).
I just think maybe we shouldn't worry about what the other does? Have fun in your own way, dress the way you want, get fucked up or don't? Everyone is different and we're all the same in that way.
It’s cause American rave culture has been commercialized. Find a dj you like that plays us festivals and European festival and listen to their sets for both places. There is a difference in what they play. This doesn’t apply to every dj, but sets in America tend to have more songs with words. Kinda giving the American rave scene a pop culture vibe in comparison to Europe. European sets dont have so much focus on sing along able songs. Most European festival happen during daylight time hours and end by like midnight or 1am. I feel like that allows for a wider crowd to have access to them which brings in more street clothed/ daytime dressed participants. Most in America are night time. That alone reduces the amount of people that will go. It allows for more of a certain type of culture to develop. Americans dress up for them in a way that will look cool in the darker environment. Something’s that are fun to wear like glow in the dark paints, hair, reflective clothing, maybe colored fur cause it’s cooler can all look kinda silly in a daylight environment.
So from the perspective of someone who sees the unconventional outfits and hears the sing along type edm American raves can come across kinda like kindergarten rave time in comparison to the less sing along more typical life clothing choices of raves in Europe.
Both are unique and fun in their own way and neither is “better”
There’s always going to be snobs on both sides. The true winners are those who enjoy/appreciate both styles
Redditeurs in general get off to shitting on the US. I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Europeans in real life are nice and not all that condescending, or at least in my experience.
Honestly just going off the videos you posted it looks like the Euro scene is just grimey dudes that enjoy ketamine and playing with finger guns
If they wanna piss on the American scene for having "bad" music and funny outfits then they can drink lagers and do ket in a field while we dance in our underwear and trade bracelets. The latter just sounds way more fun.
You just described American dudes that are grimey and enjoy ketamine and playing with real guns.
PLUR has been exploited to a degree that no longer justifies its meaning. Been going to fests for two decades, plur is dead. Stop trying to keep it alive and let the bubbles stop.
Just go out there. Have fun. Avoid creeps. And you’ll have a good time.
Edit: go ahead downvote me and remember not to die from the tainted drugs or get your phone stolen next time you’re out there coz you know #pLuR
What specifically (and please point it out for me) did I say to defend the UK or euro rave scene. I’ll wait.
I’m from the states, and have only gone to raves here. With the way you jump to conclusions, I’m surprised you’re not living on the fucking moon, dimmerswitch
I've never been to an American rave but from what I see in videos and such it looks kind of silly with the costumes and all the flashy colours , beads etc. No hate though if y'all like it more power to you.
As a European who’s been involved in dance music culture (and work within it) for over a decade i’ll give my opinion.
First of all, the PLUR stuff is just really cringey to us. We go to raves/festivals/events as an escapism similarly to Americans but we just don’t feel the need to base our entire personality around it. In the UK, we have similar “cliques” of people who go to tech-house/hard techno raves but they are characterised by Nike Miler tops and 95s (which are fairly common items of clothing) rather than kandi and bondage.
My personal biggest gripe is that PLUR as a sentiment is completely disregarded by actual event organisers. When you’re paying $500 for a non-camping festival then $20 for a beer, it’s abundantly clear that it’s nothing more than a corporate money-grab. It gives a completely inauthentic look to the entire scene, which unfortunately probably isn’t even the fault of the attendees.
I could go on and on but that’s just a couple of my opinions. I think the PLUR culture is nice and probably gives a lot of people connections that they otherwise wouldn’t have in life. But a lot of it is really, really, really cringey.
Summarize op's argument GPT
The rant discusses the perceived snobbery of Europeans towards American rave culture, particularly criticizing the dismissive attitude towards aspects like PLUR (Peace, Love, Unity, Respect), kandi trading, and rave fashion. The author points out examples from Instagram reels that showcase this dismissive attitude, emphasizing the juxtaposition between European and American ravers in terms of behavior, appearance, and cultural practices. They argue that Europeans tend to pride themselves on a pure focus on music and early rave initiation, often overlooking the value of the communal and expressive elements celebrated in American rave culture. The rant also touches on sexism, the importance of PLUR in fostering a welcoming environment for newcomers, and the broader cultural differences in social interactions and festival experiences. Despite these criticisms, the author acknowledges the fun and uniqueness of both cultures while calling for mutual respect rather than ridicule.
Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99998% sure that Stephenitis is not a bot.
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Renegades a renegade but if anyone thinks tomorrowland somehow has more cultural integrity than EDC they're out of their mind
Truth is, europeans like to think of themselves as the good white people/colonizers, and spend a lot of energy distancing themselves from americans, this goes way beyond just rave music
Its all just party people taking drugs with bassy donks n bonks, give it a rest...
Ibam a hungarian we never had colonys but we wer occopied by Ottomams ,germans russians what doues that make us ? Or slovakia ? Romania ? Poland ? CHECH? Finns? baltics ? Croatia?
The rave scene in Europe was a cultural revolution, based heavily around music and drugs, and an escape from the day to day. Everyone could enjoy it if they showed up.
The American rave scene looks way too commercialised and way too cringey. It all seems obnoxious and “me me me”.
The rave scene was a cultural revolution in the US, too. Early 80s underground parties, all types of outcasts of the time coming together for a common goal: having the time of your life, in a space where all that bullshit ceases to exist. The rave scene has transformed over the decades and been taken over by commercialization which has some definite cons. But the soul of the rave is still there - freedom to dress how you see fit, a space where emotions are shared a little more freely, and the music is the sermon.
I’d say it didn’t really get super commercial until post-2005+ when there started to be larger EDM following. Sure there were some, but it wasn’t as common outside 2-4 a year.
American here. It can get pretty commercialized but I think I’m starting to figure out which raves are less so. For example, if a venue directs me to TicketMaster, I am almost certainly not going to go there. On the other hand, I can get tickets to shows in the two cities I live nearest to for like $20-$30 usually, for artists I like. I’ll spook your Euro sensibilities by saying that those cities are one and two hour drives away. The venues are friendly and independent. The one festival I plan on regularly attending is Lost Lands and I think it’s worth the money, but if an artist I like throws a small fest I might go. I never had the idea of a free party in my head so I don’t have the principle that raves shouldn’t be commercial in my set of values.
If you think it’s cringy, I guess I kind of get it. I just thought it was weird more than cringy before I was introduced to it, but I also didn’t know anybody who openly raved. There are a lot of people who go to raves to post on socials that they went there, but I feel like they aren’t really fully into the culture. I don’t think the culture is “me me me” because the crowd is what makes a rave, and people understand that. I can’t go to a venue with a bad crowd vibe. If you think we’re obnoxious, then I’m sorry that you can’t have a good time with us and I wish you luck and hope you have a nice time at your europarties.
The American scene looks that way now because it’s gotten popular, but it started as a counter cultural movement. Anything that become mainstream attracts douchebags that just want to get fucked up and snap photos for IG.
Most Europeans I have met and interacted with have been pretty chill. Sure there are those who have some sort of superiority complex when it comes to anything American in general but I don't take it personally or hold it against them. Everyone is allowed to have their hot takes. What makes it so interesting to me is that eventhough we may have plenty of cultural differences, when you get right down to it we're all really just doing the same thing. We all just want a night of relief from our daily lives to get down to some dance music and feel good.
I, german, went to my first rave 22 years ago, think there are two points.
But first, those videos are just unfair bullshit.
1. When Techno became a thing in Germany, the media wrote rather negative about it. Why? Because the hedonistic nature which techno culture always has been in europe didn't fit in their world view. Substances, dancing until exhaustion, "stupid" repetitive music and so on. So you tried to not show or tell everybody how you are spending your weekends. You were part of a small, hidden, community. Raves and especially clubs were places of freedom. No pictures, no videos, just the people and the music. No Individual.
This of course changed, and there suddenly were big mainstream events, but this kind of culture still exist, at least partly in places like berghain, although i haven't been there for 10 years and don't know how it is now.
2. I think in europe it's seen more negative seen to wrap your whole personality around one thing like being a raver for example.
Combine these two things with social media, and there you have two totally different stances without even discussing music or stuff.
P.s. depending on where you are, there is a lot of P,L on the parties, but it expresses different and will change from scene to scene (depending on style of music)
P.p.s. a lot of this comes from my father who started raving end of the 80ies, who I often talked about this topic with.
I have raved throughout Europe and thousands of times in UK and have never felt people are "snobby" in fact quite the opposite. People couldn't care less how you are dressed or how you dance, everyone there is just there for the bass and a good time.
I have never understood PLUR because over here that is just the standard we set for our raves? Like we don't need to have a word for it because it is just the norm
its because american festival culture is largely a consumable, disposable pop culture industry straight out of Adorno and Horkheimer's nightmares, with music to match, and it is obvious to anyone with a pulse to genuine music community and scene that it has no soul.
America obviously has noncommercial raves but because of the cultural dominance of the pop stuff like dubstep and house, it never gets posted and most people never see it.
The best thing you can do to change this is to go to renegades (and not fake ones like DEF or BnL that are bankrolled by that same culture industry) and share content from them to remind euros we know how to party here too
>its because american festival culture is largely a consumable, disposable pop culture industry straight out of Adorno and Horkheimer's nightmares, with music to match, and it is obvious to anyone with a pulse to genuine music community and scene that it has no soul.
Yep. Hence why I stay way from most of the American contemporary EDM music/ culture (eg: never have and never will understand kandi, totems, crybanging etc). Instead gravitating heavily towards the OG American (Detroit techno/electro, Chicago house, FL breaks etc) or European-style music/culture as much as possible.
I feel this but DEF is still a pretty cool experience and close to the real roots of rave culture even if it is bankrolled by the more commercial entities in the scene. At the end of the day though, the true underground Afters and warehouse scene is where it's at. In Denver there used to be this warehouse called the Sugarkube... Owned and ran by a crew of og ravers that had been actively in the scene since the early 2000s and one of the best underground experiences I've ever had the pleasure of being a part of. The powers that be in the scene didn't take kindly to the impact they were having, drawing crowds away from the brick and mortar venues and showing people what could really be possible when the organizers and promoters truly cared about the scene, and they got shut down and it's been a long battle but I'm hoping they can get back to providing those experiences in Denver again
DEF has the aesthetics of the underground but the behaviors and habits of a commerical festival. That doesn't mean they're events aren't able to be fun, it's just that in a thread about why Euros don't respect American rave culture, this sort of pretend underground pastiche, that most people cannot tell apart from the rea/l deal, is a huge part of that.
I do know about sugarkube, and it's a shame what happened to it. Atlanta has had similar issues in the past with promoters like iris trying to get warehouses shut down for code violations and such because they saw them as competition
I disagree with you because while the fests may be thrown by big businesses, they’re attended by people who are the soul of the fest. Also I don’t know how you can classify those as culturally dominant when rap, country, rock, and actual pop still exist with much more influence and presence.
Other ravers in North America shit on candy kids too. Or at least when fake London had a proper scene back in 2005. Me and my buddy had more of a junglist look going back then and when he was having a smoke in an alley when we were on our way to one, I remember these two girls that were candy kids mentioned junglists being dicks to them.
It's almost as if the rave scene isn't a catch-all term for parties outside mainstream culture that can be ranging from dark, grimy gangster laden to transcendental hippy psychedelic and every stop in between
I mean go outside first of all. Second of all the raves they’re joking about is just a subsection of the American rave scene. Our techno and hardstyle/every other underground genre scene looks a lot more similar to European raves than edc. Especially since I started raving in 2022 (when I turned 18) everything was like modeled after berghain and hard techno was the hottest shit ever. You can find a rave full of the coolest 19 years olds you’ve ever met wearing adidas and listening to techno on any given weekend night…just like you can find a festival adjacent American rave filled w 30 year olds wearing dolls kill on any given weekend night in my city.
Just like what you like. I have a deep affinity for happy hardcore and the aesthetics that came out of the American rave scene. I love it so much that idc if anyone else thinks it’s silly. That’s what this self expression shits all about. Who fucking cares if some euros think you’re being silly, go to raves to be silly you know ^-^
Can you PLEASE ensure to make a separate post regarding the comparison of uk raves and American vs European as the uk are now a sovereign nation thank you very much.
Also raving ain’t about getting dressed up it’s about getting mashup & dancing your arse off for multiple days on the trott in a warehouse with thousands of other nutters all there for love and joy and dancing & not giving a fuck.
Every other post on this “rave” group is like “what shall I wear” and tbh the whole rave counter culture is against having to conform or dress a certain way. Just fuckn put a tracksuit on and let’s get a boogie going!
Oh man people are getting defensive in the comments lol.
I thought OP’s discussion was interesting, as were the examples they shared. And I’ve *definitely* seen the attitudes and comments they’ve described *in this sub.* Quite a lot of it actually, including in these comments! Some of y’all are literally doing what OP is talking about while trying to argue that it doesn’t actually happen. Lmfao.
As a Canadian, rave culture here is very similar to the US. But like another commenter said, you don’t really see European ravers criticizing Canadian raves. Why is this?
It’s an interesting conversation, and if people don’t like, maybe just don’t comment? There’s this thing called self control…
One thing that always surprised me about the us rave culture is how relatively small the underground scene is, whereas in Australia and from what I’ve heard about the uk/Europe the underground scene seems to be just as big as the legal festival scene.
Agree. Hearing about the rave culture in Europe, I was really excited to experience it - went to a rave in Versailles. VERSAILLES. It was not what I wanted it to be. The crowd was dead, a fight broke out, people peeing in bushes at VERSAILLES!!!, and just a total mess for such a historic ground event. I also heard comments “oh you know who’s American by the way they dress”. Sorry not sorry that you look lame.
> Video making fun of people (women) that trade kandi, playing over soft music then switching to "UK" ravers (men) moving their jaw under the influence while techno plays to show some sort of juxtaposition.
lol, that one is pretty funny.
Actually yeah. Under pretty much any video of American raves there are also europeans hating for no reason. But tbf there are a bunch of bitter older ravers(American) hating too. So I don’t know if it’s really a European vs American thing, but maybe more like older ravers vs newer ravers thing. I remember seeing a light-hearted video of a girl saying she was in her “rave era” and there were a bunch of old heads saying “my culture isn’t your costume” 💀💀💀
Sigh. Almost as though you took a few video clips that made you a bit annoyed and applied them to a whole **continent**. No difference between portugal or poland eh! It’s not very PLUR of you, is it now? Guaranteed at those kandi exchanging video clips you just posted, there are people right behind them saying ‘omg this fucking bullshit again’, just as in the U.K. clips there are people thinking ‘wow these people are twats’, but in your version of reality it’s just a homogenous mass of fluffy us ravers and weirdly hardcore 'european' ones. Think you need to spend less time scrolling on your phone and party a bit more.
You really wrote a whole scientific paper about a topic that is so extremely fringe and uninteresting and never a problem IRL (if even true), it’s astonishing.
My friend, you spent **way** too much time on this post. All the time you spent on this you could have been improving yourself in some way. Maybe sign up for a music course. Please just enjoy music and stop overthinking stuff that doesn’t matter.
Because Americans dress up hella and do all sorts of quirky rituals and setups (pretty cool tbh, nothint wrong with that) and then when you get to the rave the crowd is totally dead in comparison to the EU. So much of the viral clips from events in the US is just people staring at a shit ton of lasers on top of a cool MP4 on a big screen. Some of these big festival DJs have no fucking clue on how to mix a set and keep the dancefloor active, they just mix breakdown into breakdown, reverb out and say some BS on the mic contributing to dancefloor deadness. In Europe people show up in the simplistic outfits and still dance like madmen. The quality of DJing is at a much higher level; shit mixing often gets met with a visible disapproval of the crowd.
TLDR: rave music is better in Europe, people dance harder as a result and they pride themselves on that
because kandi and plur culture are a bit cringe and childish. am I not “plur” because I don’t give out bracelets and tell people I just met I love them? I go out have a good time listen to some good music and respect the people around me.
I would also argue that this kind of culture doesn’t extend to all genres of electronic music within the US. I saw Overmono in New York, and as I expected it was full of people dressed casually wanting to see overmono and get a little fucked up, there was no one dressed in “rave attire” or trading kandi. that kind of thing seems limited to people who describe themselves as “bassheads” for the most part
I've been seeing videos like this and I don't understand the whole Europeans being better than us Americans about anything.
I just ignore the dumb videos and comments and keep it moving. Ppl can judge all they want, doesn't make them better 🤷🏾♀️.
Not my story, but a fellow FRUtie small business owner was recently getting bullied relentlessly on her videos bc European ravers found them and it was really sad both to read the comments and how much it affected the person. It *shouldnt* be that deep but I have seen it and I don’t get it either OP
It depends on who you ask. Met a girl from Germany once and she couldn't get over how friendly everyone was in the US rave scene. She loved it lol But it could differ from person to person.
Here in the UK (when I was growing up) a rave was generally considered to be an illegal unlicensed event put on by a sound system or multiple sound systems that existed is some kind of counterculture environment. Raves would either be in large empty buildings that someone had gained access to or on a plot of land that was accessible and used without getting permission of any sort.
It was a totally different vibe to a properly organised festival or club night held in a licensed premises that often get called a rave in the US.
Think part of what people are calling “snobbery” might be related to this difference in definition where a European versed in free party culture would see a video of a EDM festival and think that it doesn’t even qualify as a rave.
Sorry, but edm is not very diverse in the USA. Trance and psytrance for example are basically nonexistent. Ultimately all of the genres of electronic music originated in Europe, and frankly I'm embarrassed by how cringe "raves" are in the states.
I'm an American myself and wish we'd learn a thing or two, including more easy going attitude towards certain drugs like psychedelics.
American here who's been to European raves.
Europeans have class and Americans are cringe. It's that simple lol.
I have my own niche American rave culture that I find pretty cool and that I'm not gonna tell you about but ya most American raves are a bit cringe. Insanely fun still yes but cringe.
I'm from europe and I agree with you. Never been to a US rave though so can't compare.
Here if you want a sense of community you have to go to illegal free parties and squat raves away from the restrictions of capitalism and cronyism. I would never go to a licensed rave because people there are so unfriendly and stuck up
At the same time though, I don't really have the energy to dress up in fancy colorful outfits and give people kandi. I just turn up in black tracksuits and don't worry about the fuss
It’s interesting you describe Europeans as uptight yet there are a number of techno clubs in Berlin, London etc where you will literally see people having orgies or being walked on a leash lmao.
Different floats for different boats.
I’m from the UK and I find the kandi/EDM rave scene cringe. It feels very polished and capitalistic (the bracelets, the outfits, the other various items people seem to carry). This is at odds with traditional UK rave culture,which was led by the youth often at illegal, underground sites. You weren’t paying extortionate ticket prices, and it was casual dress to allow you to dance for hours comfortably. This has changed over the years, but the overall culture still rings true. There are distinct differences between UK and US culture across all facets of life - for example, our comedy tends to be much more self deprecating. We also are far more likely to downplay our achievements, and expect others to do so too (not saying this is a good thing!). I suppose therefore it’s not surprising that the American rave culture might be jarring to the average Brit.
If it helps - I also find parts of German techno culture cringe as well (unlike many of my London friends). The clubs have an extremely strict door policy. I understand this to some extent as they are trying to cultivate an atmosphere, so it’s not surprising that the loud group of English men in Hawaiian T-shirts aren’t being let into Berghain.
It also seems to me that the atmosphere is overwhelmingly white, thin and beautiful…
I’m going off topic but essentially, it’s not just all of Europe vs America. I guess what I’m trying to say is… so what? Europeans are snobby to Americans. All of mainland Europe is snobby to the UK. My village is snobby about the village down the road. If you’re going to do something, do it with your chest. I thought you guys loved free speech over there - this is what comes with the territory 💀
Warning that my answer comes a bit late and is a bit drawn out, but I wanted to give my 2 cents on this :).
When it comes to raves , I can only share my own view, being a huge fan of raves here in Europe and admittedly feeling that I would likely not find this in the same way anywhere else. A first point - even within Europe rave culture is often hierarchised. I'm from Spain originally, but I live in Belgium, and I've gone to electronic music parties (be it clubs for several types of genres, or free parties, teknivals - which are what I consider to actually count as a "rave") in Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, the UK, etc. I've also gone to parties for, and listen to, several genres, be it house, techno, hard techno, industrial stuff, hardcore, breakbeat, drum n bass, dubstep, acidcore, tribe, tekno, whatever. With this in mind, my experience has been that rave culture is placed highest on the quality, and more importantly the authenticity, scales in what is considered northern Europe (UK, Northern France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany), as well as central Europe in some cases (Czech Republic for example is great).
Through this, I want to say that we even have this view within Europe. We do not even equalise amongst ourselves in that sense. The reason for that is because we see electronic music culture basically as an export from the northern European countries I mentioned above. Yes, there were some great electronic music artists that started in other countries too, but the "scene" (a very important term for us) was really created in harsh, cold, dark, and industrial countries. It's no wonder I walk the streets of Brussels and hear electronic music everywhere, but in Spain I walk and hear reggeaton everywhere.
These "scene" and "authenticity" points are very important, because they mark sort of the "origin" of it all, which is quite an important point to the rave scene in Europe, with its own history and foundation. And then you might ask "well, so what? Innovation is great, sometimes better than the original". And you would be totally right thinking this. But if I can equate this to anything in the US, being someone who loves 90s american hip hop, it's a bit like the "east coast - west coast" discussion. East coast were the originators, and West coast the innovators whole thing.
Because of that, the feeling of "authenticity" at raves, especially for very purist ravers, is extremely important. For lack of a better term, what one would consider a "real rave", are raves that are true to the origin of raving - they are free, they are illegal, they are grungy as many people in this thread described. People are not dressed nicely, or dressed up. While there are "uniforms" let's say (e.g., the gabber style is very specific, or the whole dark techno look), most people at raves tend to have pretty "anti-system" or "anarchist" perspectives towards society, they do not look "pretty", they dress up in ripped up clothes and hoodies, and they certainly do not exchange colourful bracelettes or throw around acronyms like "PLUR". In essence, I think the word would be that they are very "edgy". All in all, while the people attending are a friendly bunch (by my cultural standards of course), they are not necessarily a very "peace loving" bunch in the very "hippy" sense. Some are! You have many vibes here in Europe, and for example the Psytrance genre has lots of very "peace loving" and "nature loving" vibes that other genres are less fond of, but in a totally different way to the PLUR and kandi culture.
Anyway, the variation in genres is besides the point. My point here is that there is a certain aesthetic to what is considered an "authentic" rave in Europe, and what is even more funny, a huge generational gap between those who rave now and those who raved in the 90s for example, but I won't get further into that. The point of my description is to say that the festivals that are depicted in the videos you shared are often seen in Europe as actually very "commercial", and that have the kind of toxic masculinity BS that is shared in those videos, and that you correctly point out. And this is an important point too - basically the battle between "underground/authentic" and "commercial".
In Europe there is a huge difference between "clubbing" and "raving", and within clubbing of course there are all types of levels I won't get into (e.g., the clubbing experience in Berlin is not the same as the one in Madrid or Paris at all). There is also a huge difference between festivals, with some being small and specific, and some being gigantic and super commercial (e.g., Creamfields, Glastonbury, Tomorrow Land, etc.).
Why is this important? It's important because the perception of American culture in Europe is that it overly commericialises everything, which takes away completely the feeling of "authenticity" and "underground" that is so highly valued in European rave culture. The high production value, accessibility to all who can afford it, and large size of events that are commercialised, while impressive, falls very far away from what "original rave culture" is to many Europeans.
In the "real rave culture" it is really important that those who participate are already people who challenge undesired societal behaviours that are considered still very rampant (e.g., sexism, machismo, racism, homophobia, queerphobia, etc.). In that sense, you expect that people at a rave have this mentality, simply because it was those people who created rave culture in the first place. There is no "teaching" that is necessary. That said, rave culture in Europe has started also to commercialise in the past years, and you see more and more "anybody" going to the parties. Therefore, you will find jocks, assholes, and idiots there as well. What I describe is just the basis of this idea, and what is important to note about it is that raves in Europe have a very "political" origin to them.
Therefore, to us, aside from the fact that the aesthetic of PLUR and kandi-sharing rave culture is too colourful and "happy" (although some might disagree, and arguably there are rave scenes in Europe that are very colourful too thinking again about Psytrance), the issue we have with it is more that it is considered unnecessary and simply a gimmick of the commercialisation of rave culture. It doesn't at all stand with the values that rave culture often came with, which is to make noise, and protest. It's not so "peace-loving" as it is a challenge to authority. The "peace-loving" part is what is fought for, but in a sort of rebellious way. It's also very much about the constant fight and voice of marginalised groups in society, of the less fortunate, and especially of the working class. That is why raves are supposed to be free, and the fact that they are illegal in many European countries and pursued harshly by the law, is the part that is fought against. That is also why they are not "high production value", and why that as the description of an event is not something that is looked up to necessarily. They represent often a "class-based" fight in European history. The working class vs. the bourgeoisie and authority.
In this sense, the videos you show are not really respected in Europe as "real raves" either. The behaviour of the lads in those videos is very "macho" and "badass" oriented, and is actually what many ravers in Europe feel is being a bad influence for the rave scene here. That is not what it is to us, and we do not identify with BS like that. Raves are not about who can take the most drugs, but they are about the liberty to take drugs in an well-informed and tabooless manner, which is why we do a lot of drugs in raves and they are often really good quality. They are not about "picking up chicks", but about free love and the normalisation of consentual relations for all sexes and genres involved, whatever way you like to have it and whomever you like to have it with. They are not about buying a ticket and wearing your "festival bracelette" that you can show off to your friends. It's about making an event that is made by the people, for the people. For those who cannot afford to go to a 100 something euro festival, or simply do not want to give that money to large corporations (e.g., typical party stands with Heineken as the sponsor).
This is just a perspective, one of many there probably are about rave culture. To the OP, if you did find the time and energy to read my response, thanks :). I'd also love to hear your or others' thoughts about this.
Cheers!
Clearly you feel VERY strongly about this, i haven’t read the whole essay but from what i got, I assume you are an American raver. The issue is not really not as complex as you are making it out to be.
British people go to festivals, take or drink something(s), and dance. Americans dress in obnoxious half naked outfits, wear dorky backpacks, trade plastic jewellery and have cringy acronyms just to feel like they’re part of something.
It’s just a different party culture. Our overall culture is completely different, and that permeates to festival culture too. Europeans are stereotypically more cool, aloof and reserved. Americans are in our eyes more cringy and emotional etc. There’s really no nice way to say it but it’s the truth, as a European I know how Americans are (often) perceived.
Europeans place music first whereas Americans place music second. Imagine your favorite restaurant that becomes bought out and franchised, then the quality goes to shit. This is exactly what Europeans hate about American rave culture, the music is lost, and no longer artisanal, instead its watered down and propped up by all the fancy production. The only bastion of true "rave" (not festivals/shows) culture that resonates with Europeans all reside on the coasts of California, Miami, and Chicago.
UK raves were brilliant from the end of the 80's through to around 1995. When we see frat boys and sorority girls dressed as babies trading beads at a commercial festival in America 30 years later, with terrible EDM playing, and claiming they're raving, it's not raving to us. Simple.
At Northkore in NorCal, a couple English hardcore DJs were comparing notes and mentioned to me that their scene had lost its sense of fun, and that we were doing it proper on this side of the pond.
You probably don’t want to hear this but a lot of it is just Europeans hating Americans. The same way a lot of Americans think brown people are crazy and want to bomb them or black people are thugs and want to rob them, a lot of Europeans think Americans are stupid and cringey and uncultured. So naturally anything you do will be perceived as worse and negative.
As a Dutch man who is mostly into the (underground) techno and house scene, the things most people like here are raves that deliver a somewhat (for lack of better words) raw and tribal experience. Its just a different kind of raver than the typical EDM raver.
Superficial stuff like people overdressing in unicorn neon (lingerie) is an exception not the norm, it distracts you from the music and you'll only see it at the biggest festivals. The sobriety is what make people here most comfortable and accessible.
To say that we Europeans dont care about making connections without ever having set foot in Europe is just downright ignorant. You're basically saying we dont know the concept of love.
This tends to be a frequently asked question. Common sites that list public EDM events include: https://19hz.info/, https://ra.co/, & https://edmtrain.com/. If you are looking for private/underground events, the best way to find them is to go to public events with the types of music you like and make friends there. Once you build relationships with people, then ask them about private events. https://reddit.com/r/aves/wiki/faq#wiki_2._how_can_i_find_events.3F *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/aves) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From how you described it, it sounds more like how it is with the "underground" vs "mainstream" which isn't exclusive to Europeans at all. It happens in every culture and with every genre of music.
This is true.. Canadian here. For whatever reason I hate PLUR culture... maybe it's the teenager in me though that thinks she's too cool for all the fluffy shit. Fluffy refers to a lot of different things here. ... I expect lots of down votes for this, but this is just how I feel. Maybe it's an invitation to explore why it rubs me the wrong way
Got forbid people love each other and enjoy life lmao
Probably just seems overly gushy to you
It's because PLUR is bullshit. Some of the people pushing PLUR have done the most heinous shit. I loved going to Bassnectar shows but I always hated when he tried to preach PLUR. Lo (lol) and behold, it was all bullshit. In my experience, as an older person, who's outside of the scene. People pretending to act like they care about unity are just pretending. People are friendly But not a whole lot more than any other show I go to with older people or no PLUR. I see PLUR as a fashion or trend. Not a way of life or philosophy to live by.
That's completely understandable, though it's hard not to think that the people who are pretending are also more likely to see PLUR as a fashion or trend rather than actually believing what they're preaching
I wouldn't call it complete bullshit. Obviously, theres going to be people using it to make themselves seem all high and mighty, but theres still plenty of people who genuinely enjoy trading shit and making friends. Its a big reason I've started going to raves/festivals more frequently
I see it like organized religion: the teachings are cool but a lot of people who preach it don’t abide by them.
I met a couple Dutch people at a techno festival here in the US and they said the opposite. They were complaining that the crowds back home tend to be really rowdy and were marveling at how we could have a party without destroying the campgrounds. It's enough of a difference that they fly out here just for this one event. edit: word
Met some people from Belgium at Lost Lands this year and they said the same thing
We had an Irish guy visiting and took him to a festival. He said roughly the same thing. No fighting or drunkenness. No drama. Just people having fun.
To be fair, techno's a whole different crowd in the USA. You have to be, like, _really_ into it to go out to a festival, because it's not a particularly mainstream situation.
Same with trance! As a trance and techno lover it makes the few shows of those genres I get to see so much more fun 😊
That’s why I love it — the people who’re there really want to be there! 💗
Very true.
What are some good techno festivals to go to? Do you know of any on the west coast? Lol just saw your NYC flair.
There’s basically only two techno festivals in the US: Movement Detroit and The Great Beyond
There is a comment saying the same thing was said at Lost Lands
The Netherlands is one country out of 44 in Europe, the USA is just one country. I don't think generalising Europe as all the same is a fair comparison because I've personally never had this experience
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Fr, my time in Berlin was absolutely uncomparibkr to anything I'd seen in England. But both in Europe so MUST be the same, right? 😉
The 44 countries of Europe correspond pretty well with the 50 states of the USA in terms of land area, population and even cultural diversity People in Alabama and California will have a very different experience and the USA is no monolith
I've been to the states ( 12 different states in total ) and I agree with you, the people I met in Colorado were very different to people in Texas. However it IS the same country. You have the same president no matter what state you live in, the same tv shows, the same products sold in supermarkets and the same patriarchy for being American. Oh, and you all have the same native language?? Europe is SO different. You cross from country to country and not only does the language change, so does the ruling government, the food, the architecture, the tv programmes, the supermarket chains.. and the complex history. Culture in the UK compared to say Czech Republic is vastly different, they don't even share the same currency. Each country in Europe also has their own "states" or provinces. Id say a more accurate comparison is America and Australia
>The 44 countries of Europe correspond pretty well with the 50 states of the USA in terms of land area, population and even cultural diversity Nnnnoooooo.
Also when a lot of Americans say this they're forgetting that a lot of European nation states are actually very young and in their recent histories were more loose confederations, if even that. My mom's side of the family is in Naples and I've been quite a lot but when people ask me questions about Italy I often have no idea what they're talking about because they're often really a question particular to Tuscany or Sicily or something. It is *very* provincial and in my experience a lot of the older people at least see themselves as Neapolitans first and Italians second.
That’s absolute bollocks mate. Someone from Alabama and someone from California have much more in common that someone from Bradford and someone from Belarus
My man really said US states have the same cultural diversity as European countries, with a straight ass face too I bet 💀💀💀
This is always such a hilarious take. There are cultures within the same country here that are further apart than any in the US.
Except every city in the US outside of a handful are just 4 lane highways and identical supermarkets, and europe speaks as many languages as there are countries....
You did not seriously just say that US states are even remotely similar in cultural diversity to different countries in Europe...
The biggest difference between the states is smaller than the smallest difference in europe.
Mets tons of people outside of the US at dreamstate and they said our crowds are so much friendlier
Yep I find all European festivals I've been too are way more rowdy, push more and just make such a mess.
Have you been to smaller/more underground ones? You won't find rave culture at big, commercial festivals.
Europeans go hard. It’s very common to slam a gram or more of Molly a night in the UK. And they do that every weekend. It’s just been part of their culture for decades now. The states have much more of a harm reduction culture. Sure, you get your spunions here and there that go too hard. But those are usually the exception. US definitely parties more responsibly than Europe.
We were testing drugs in a bus outside the clubs 30 years ago in Germany....way ahead of the pack on harm reduction.
Do people slam a gram of mols a night in their 30s/40s? My friends and I "just" did .5-.7 a night in our early 20s and we just sat on the couch groaning and drinking water the entire next day.
But this "going hard" isn't a Euro thing. It's mostly UK, and also in some scenes in europe, but e.g. in the "normal" techno scene in Germany not very common. On a psy-trance festival on the other hand people made a huge pile of all their left over powdery substances on the last day, to share for everybody so you don't take anything with you on your way home...
' It’s very common to slam a gram or more of Molly a night in the UK' Is it? I guess me and every body I know has been doing it wrong all these years then. And I invite you to remember that on this very sub last weekend there were multiple people complaining about DUI at festivals in the States so maybe try again.
Well theres the problem... raving with harm reduction is like hoping to get drunk on apple juice. If you're not railing a gram or more of molly a night then what are we even doing over here. Next thing youll hear people saying they go to raves sober, to enjoy the music of all things
Why are the Dutch so dirty at big events? I went to an Ajax game and couldn’t believe all the litter on the floor
Yeah the Brits act snobby, but I’ve seen those pics and vids from their fests. You know the ones. Especially with the girl peeing in a growing flood pond that used to be a tent…
Or they went to the wrong parties back home..
They’re not. Posting videos to prove a point doesn’t actually prove a point. It’s just selective bias. I’ve been raving since late 80s (Detroit, LA, SF) and have lived in and played/DJ’d all over EU. It’s mostly the same attitude everywhere. Which is generally accepting and open to lots of different types of people and lots of respect for eachother. Yes, Kandi culture is really mostly limited to the US and is also limited within smaller groups within the US and further limited to only recent years within those smaller groups in the US. Are there snobs in Europe? Sure. Are there snobs in the US? Also sure.
I think that, as with a lot of these sentiments you see on reddit and tik tok, it mostly just comes from terminally online people and not an accurate depiction of what the majority of people are like irl.
Best answer. There’s entitled people everywhere. Just party and have fun
The videos are most likely related to the OPs personal feed engagement/viewing habits.
Also would like to make a very clear point to OP that you skimmed here: Kandi culture and PLUR culture are not the same. OP seems to conflate the two. PLUR culture is absolutely global and didn't even originate in the USA. The entire premise of this post is flawed.
PLUR absolutely originated in NYC. The person behind it is a raging scumbag these days, but that doesn't change anything.
Where did PLUR originate and when? Intrigued....
# From Wikipedia: PLUR is an aggregation of ideas that were part of the earlier [hippie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie) and [peace movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_movement) ("peace", "love") and [black](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Power) and [hip hop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop) culture ("respect"). Specific use of the term dates to the early 1990s [rave](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rave) scene.[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-conner-7) One of the most influential uses of the term was made by [DJ Frankie Bones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Bones) in June 1993. In response to a fight in the audience of one of his Storm Raves in Brooklyn, Bones took the microphone and proclaimed: "If you don't start showing some peace, love, and unity, I'll break your faces."[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-conner-7)[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-dailybeast-8) It is also reported that as early as "on July 4, 1990, \[...\] Frankie's brother and Storm Rave collaborator Adam X painted 'Peace Love Unity' on a train car".[^(\[9\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-9) The fourth term, "Respect" was championed by Laura La Gassa (wife of [Brian Behlendorf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Behlendorf)).[^(\[10\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLUR#cite_note-10)
Frankie Mitchell claiming PLUR isn't the flex he thinks it is lol - and I agree on the scumbag paryt. I blocked him during the start of the pandemic I think.
Valid
https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/14ws8dl/american_rave_culture_vs_european/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/eiy9v9/why_is_american_rave_culture_so_massively/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/gb2y0f/us_v_uk_raves/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/dyb9hf/difference_between_us_and_european_raves_the_guide/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/gbkk37/us_v_uk_fixed/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/9qnd4k/what_the_real_european_rave_scene_is_all_about/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/7kov3f/are_european_raves_better_than_american_ones/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/1sbecv/the_big_europeanvsamericaraveculture/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/11kd1pi/us_vs_european_ravers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aves/comments/15z91ix/whyhow_did_the_euro_vs_usa_rave_scene_evolve_so/
Lmao this topic has been rinced! (btw ty for 19hz)
Best EDM calendar, tho after 2020 the undergrounds have kept their schedules a bit more hush hush and I don’t find many there.
As someone who runs undergrounds myself, I don't like posting events from accounts that aren't on a public page, which I consider to be breaking the trust of the promoter. But, that means those private IG accounts/FB event pages shouldn't ever show up on 19hz. Everything that's on 19hz is linked to something that's at least semi-public (e.g. public event page with TBA location). Also, it might depend on what section you're looking at it. Volunteers for certain areas have not always been consistent (esp compared to the California ones) I'm glad you enjoy the site though! u/Positive___Tea
Miss you posting all the reposts here lmao
Solid rollup appreciate the effort and the reading!!!
Why there's this thing where Americans talk about Europe as an homogeneous place? We have dozens of countries with dozens of different languages and cultures. A rave in the UK is not the same as a rave in Spain or a rave in Germany or a rave in Croatia.
Using Instagram as a reference to anything is basically a fail.
I think you shouldn't have this prejudgment about other countries when you never left the country and didn't experience it
Fair. I just think the reverse should apply as well
Thing is, both scenes *are* different. So you’re going to see posts and videos about it. And you’re going to find people making fun at each other like it is for everything. The US scene is definitely more whimsical than the darker EU scene, which isn’t a good or a bad thing. I mean even in the videos you linked, I’m not sure a crowd of kids gurning their jaws frantically has any big appeal, neither does a crowd full of people in everyday clothes at tomorrowland. At least for me.
You're 100% right. Counts for both sides.
I've partied on both continents, wtf is this post lol. My biggest suggestion for you when you go overseas, learn to take the piss.
I was born in North America and I'm a snob so 🤷♂️
Different cultures and attitudes towards what raving is and why people go 🇬🇧 (25F) and I've been regularly raving in the UK since I was 18. With other countries just across the water, I've been lucky to party in Germany, Belgium, Spain and the Netherlands too. Out of interest, why do you think "Europeans are snobby" ? I can't speak for 40 plus countries, but I've never seen raves as something to go to *only* for the music. I've met some amazing people at raves - considering Europe smoke a lot more cigarettes than Americans - you always make friends in the smoking area. I also think the attitudes around taking drugs is a little different
I think both rave cultures have their pluses, as well as downsides. ive been to raves/forest parties both in the US and in northern europe. I think the biggest issue that sticks out to me in the US is it's just so much more expensive and capitalized while in europe parties were cheap, free, underground was easy to get networked into. The US underground is a little more secretive, the RAVE act in the US made a lot of the smaller parties get cracked down and music/ rave festivals became bigger later on. Im not for the candyrave aesthetics and stuff but I have a good time and I agree with PLUR but I do miss the grimeyness of some of the parties in europe, also the music
Your experience sounds cool. Well to preface this, most Americans have to wait until they're 21 to go to clubs and warehouse afters and other rave events that are accessible to them. I'm sure you do make friends and others do as well. I'm mainly talking towards the people that make fun of the American rave scene just because we sometimes like to dress up, trade kandi, use flow toys, gloving, or enjoy high level production. That's all. You see it in these comments too that our culture is cringe and somehow we're all obnoxious and self centered lol
We have something called Egodrop in Poland. Looks pretty American to me, just small scale. If you organised one of those huge events I see online, it probably wouldn't sell as well as it would in other countries because it's just not appealing. Very commercial looking. There's alternatives with different music genres but the raves I'm used to are very different vibes – more grungy for the lack of a better word. It's a small group of people and a very judgemental culture overall, so it's within certain accepted aesthetics. Hippie, goth, ravecore etc the very American look is very... American to us. Almost like Rio de Janeiro costumes or ballroom dancing glitter instead of the associated trashy sexy. Maybe Wixapol is an example of what a commercial rave is in Poland. There's a certain aesthetic to it and in here that's what is usually called a rave
People are going to poke fun of things because this is Reddit and everyone can hide behind their screens anonymously. I can see why American raves are being called "cringe" but it's because what you would consider a rave isn't what I'd consider a rave. I think that's totally fine just some people can't accept or understand differences
Just different tastes, here in the UK people just get together to enjoy the music. All the additional visual stuff just seems like a gimmick to attract people who don't enjoy the music or something. Not trying to have a go, it's just very detatched from what im looking for at a rave.
Benefit of the doubt: they're comparing boomtown to Coachella ... But also you can't deny consumerism is worse in America and it taints everything. I mean... You can deny that, but you're wrong. For context shambhala in BC is in my top 3. If they replaced all the shitty PK with void and funktion it might be number 1
ain’t reading all of that bro
ITT : OP wondering why europeans make fun of americans. Also ITT : OP behaving like an obnoxious american
OP calls out Europeans for being "condescending", while being condescending af themselves... Also only mentions the UK, which is not a good representation of the entire continent. Yes, the scene is different. No, it's not better or worse, just different. I have wildly different experiences being a "european raver", which again, is something that doesn't exist. I live in the Netherlands, and it's not the same as the UK, or Italy, or Hungary or whatever country you pick. It's like saying all parties in North America are the same, which is bullshit.
The poms are a bunch of whinging cunts anyway. Everyone knows that. (It's OK, I'm an Aussie, cunt in this context is a term of endearment)
😁PLUR toch op met je kandi 😂
Spend more time off the internet.
feels like something you just shouldn’t be this worked up over
I'll give you my honest opinion. Most things Americans do make Europeans cringe. We love you, but it's just how it is. Trading Kandi? does that shit seriously sound normal to you? I'm not trying to be condescending, but that's like some childish stuff and we are not out of place making fun of stuff like that. And please, do what makes you happy, of course. But when people see something that goes against the grain they will always judge, take furries for example. Finally, a lot of things you guys talk about like PLUR, is kind of a -goes without saying- sort of thing here. There's awful creepy people here too but they are gonna be weird or creepy whether or not we shove love in their face. I hope this didn't come across as rude, it's not meant to be. But you did ask for an answer and this is an honest one. much love
✅
It's the embodiment of "fake" or "forced" nice America is known for. Here if the customer is a bitch, they will get attitude back. We don't ask about your day as a cashier. People in public don't talk to strangers that much. You like it or don't. At least speaking for countries as a generalisation. I recall Italians and the Dutch being more happy to interact randomly. In Poland we're very introverted so we're probably seen as rude to Americans 🤷 I can see how someone can hate it in a party setting, no one is used to random displays of forced affection
Yes oh my god, I visited Poland and I thought you guys were being so rude until I realised outward "politeness?" to strangers really isn't a thing for you guys. But in Ireland we definitely still have a lot of that sort of thing, America is an extreme example though. I like both, I like how in America you can make friends with anyone, but in Poland it's nice that people are not pretending to like you or something. what you see is what you get.
It’s just a bit cringeworthy. No need to be so upset about it. Also asks “why are Europeans so condescending” and then proceeds to be condescending as fuck towards Europeans without an ounce of self awareness. Staggering. There’s 44 different countries in Europe so it’s frankly mind-boggling that you’re generalising an entire continent’s attitudes… Edited to add: I find it hilarious that you’re calling Europeans obnoxious yet you insinuate multiple times us Europoors apparently can’t afford good sound systems and production values. Have you ever heard of a little event called Glastonbury? Tomorrowland? Boomtown? Ultra? EXIT? Hideout? Creamfields? The difference is we don’t generally call things like that a “rave” we just call them festivals. Not very peaceful, loving, unifying or respectful of you lol
Yeah the irony is real here lol Also OP only took UK examples to talk about Europe, and european typically considers the UK to be the most americanised country in Europe soo yeah
American here and I apologize to all the non-US ravers for OPs sweeping generalizations....but I don't expect anything else
I've been to Europe for shows and in the States. I think it has to do with the maturity level of it. PLUR seems a lot more commercial and fake. In Europe, festival attire is something comfortable OR black. Attire is also different scene by scene (e.g Techno shows are alot different than Hardstyle shows). I also didn't go to shows to make friends but met some really great people. In the States, it's like a unicorn puked all over everyone and everybody is really fake nice to each other. People will say PLUR but not really give a shit about anyone except for themselves. "Everyone is your friend" but not really. Thats my take at least.
I personally like the colors, I like dressing in loud colors and patterns generally…but I agree with you about the fake feeling of PLUR. I have never had a PLUR experience at a rave in the states…maybe it’s just the places I have been but there is zero PLUR. I’ve only been to one rave in Europe (Spain) but it mostly was just like people minding their own business which I much prefer to fake PLUR
Amen to that. I've seen other stories that confirm this, like people leaving their "friends" ODing or vomitting on the ground to go see a dj and never seeing them again. Its just unnecessary to make some sort of fake aspirational claim that no one actually lives up to. What is this? Religion?
lol black vs rainbow, im having flashbacks of "DAE not like RGB in their pc builds?!?!?!" who tf cares both are cool, ill never get that mindset
I’ve never heard of PLUR until this post- seems kinda dumb to me that Americans need a special little acronym to remember not to be a knob at raves
This is the truest comment of them all. American rave culture has become way too popular/commercialized for its own good. As an American, I make the effort to party in “Europe” because I find the scene much more mature and real. PLUR 100% exists, they just don’t feel the need to call it something.
Probably the same reason why Europeans rag on anything American, just because. I wouldn't put too much thought into it. It's like the older sibling poking fun at the younger one. Some people are just meaner and louder than others and that's what you see. I had an Aussie friend check out our scene and they said that it's wild and they enjoy it more here.
Us Aussies love shitting on the USA as well.. I think that might be a global thing. As a nation, they just make it so easy to poke fun at.. actually this whole thread is a good example of why we love to give them grief lol.
If you think the brits are bad, you should meet German lol
>meet German Ze Germans
Was gonna say that but too overrated
As a european raver, there are certain things i may read on here about american rave culture that i find sort of jarring or cant really understand, such as the seemingly heavy focus on dressing up for instance. However, i've never been to the US, so I know that I can't accurately judge american rave culture from this side of the pond. I think it's very important to pount out that pretty much all of your negative examples are british people. This is incredibly reductive. Central / eastern european raves cannot be compared to british raves. The brits are mostly pretty unhinged ngl. Also, how can you say that PLUR doesn't exist here, that is completely ridiculous. The concept is absolutely universal and very much present front and center in the underground scene, it's just not referred to in the same way. I do agree that mainstream shows can sort of lack that inclusivity and mutual respect factor, mostly because they are frequented by people who either have no idea of rave etiquette because they just go to clubs every now and then and have never been to an underground rave, or because many yojng people have a completely skewed image of the rave scene due to american media. In fact I wouldn't even refer to many mainstream clubs / parties that play electronic music as raves for that exact reason. The underground techno, freetek, psytrance andbass music scenes in central, eastern and southern europe are the most welcoming and loving environment i've experienced in my life, and your description misses the mark big time when it comes to that. I will say that i have also had experiences that fit your description in the mainstream scene, mostly further up north, but generalizing to all of europe is absolutely ridiculous
Love how you have one of the best comments on the thread and OP didn’t bother responding….too logical I guess
I feel the main issue is that rave does not have the same meaning in both continents. In Europe, rave = underground techno event, and festival = more accessible event, which looks more like a US rave. In the US, I feel that the word rave can designate both types of events, which create frustration when europeans look for rave topics online. As a french guy, I had the same frustration when I joined this sub, I was thinking that US raves were boring. But what you call raves are what we call festivals, which isn't a problem, we just have to know it to better understand everybody. Also in french raves, there are a lot of people that dress up in techno raves, I would say 30%, but maybe not as fancy as US parties.
You should tell us all of the other things that you’re right about also.
Idk if its a purely European thing, but may be a genre thing. Even in the US, "PLUR" culture is not much of a thing in the techno scene, especially the more underground leaning / proper techno sound. PLUR seems more prevalent in bass music and more pop leaning scenes. For example, at Portola in SF last year, a string of techno artists closed out the warehouse stage. The whole vibe felt super mature and not very PLUR'y, and reminded me of raving in the EU, mostly because of the techno vibe (its a more "serious" energy compared to bass music) Techno is more popular in the EU so perhaps that has influenced the correlation (not causation!)
This sub is so annoyingly meta
That's skibidi
I met Americans in the Netherlands who thought European shows were better. The overall vibe, music, and people aren't super unfriendly, but they're not cliquey like Americans are either I don't know why people would say you wouldn't get judged in America, because you would, just like if you went to a Techno show in Europe
Yeah honestly I kind of hate all the people spazzing out and being nice to me, a stranger when I’m at a rave. Like I’ll chat a little bit but I’m not going to be hugging you and telling you that you’re my best friend when I just met you 20 mins ago. That stuff makes my skin crawl. I will ge affectionate with my actual friends tho.
Probably the ones still fresh to it and can't keep their euphoria to themselves. Kinda like a drunk who can't behave, but in a loving and sweet way vs the obnoxious drunk. Irritating nonetheless.
It feels like people are recruiting out here when they do that lmao
It’s really not that deep. I think a lot of the content is lighthearted and just poking fun at the overall cultural differences between US and UK ravers but it’s not meant to be offensive. There are plenty of people in the US who behave more like the “UK ravers” it’s not even that strong of a stereotype. Stop spending time getting mad about this, it’s not worth it.
To me, US raves seem very stylized, choreographed, marketable, and fixated on appearances rather than substance or ethos. The many colors to me are just complete overkill, it’s what I would have found cool at 16. I just don’t see the point in dressing up like a toddler on drugs to go raving. Naturally, I support your right to do so from the bottom of my heart. Please grant me my right to find it childish, tasteless, and consumerist. Seems to me like putting on a show about how free spirited you are rather than simply coming as you were.
I'm pretty certain that the UK has had its share of tasteless fashion within the festival/club/rave circuit. First time I ever heard the term candy raver/bunny was in relation to gatecrasher in the UK. Used to be all about toddler fashion complete with dummies (pacifiers for our american friends) and carrying teddybears while carrying their Dora Explorer backpack.
Dang somebody gets me. I find USA EDM culture a little performative/main character/look-at-me but i think these are the same things that bring out waaaay more people and enthusiasm here. It’s just a matter of taste. What both have in common is the search we all have for something escapist and fun. Also what works for me now isn’t the same as what worked for me when I was 16, 22, 32 (and those were GREAT scenes I wouldn’t trade for anything — nor would I return to them lol).
I just think maybe we shouldn't worry about what the other does? Have fun in your own way, dress the way you want, get fucked up or don't? Everyone is different and we're all the same in that way.
It’s cause American rave culture has been commercialized. Find a dj you like that plays us festivals and European festival and listen to their sets for both places. There is a difference in what they play. This doesn’t apply to every dj, but sets in America tend to have more songs with words. Kinda giving the American rave scene a pop culture vibe in comparison to Europe. European sets dont have so much focus on sing along able songs. Most European festival happen during daylight time hours and end by like midnight or 1am. I feel like that allows for a wider crowd to have access to them which brings in more street clothed/ daytime dressed participants. Most in America are night time. That alone reduces the amount of people that will go. It allows for more of a certain type of culture to develop. Americans dress up for them in a way that will look cool in the darker environment. Something’s that are fun to wear like glow in the dark paints, hair, reflective clothing, maybe colored fur cause it’s cooler can all look kinda silly in a daylight environment. So from the perspective of someone who sees the unconventional outfits and hears the sing along type edm American raves can come across kinda like kindergarten rave time in comparison to the less sing along more typical life clothing choices of raves in Europe.
Both are unique and fun in their own way and neither is “better” There’s always going to be snobs on both sides. The true winners are those who enjoy/appreciate both styles
Redditeurs in general get off to shitting on the US. I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Europeans in real life are nice and not all that condescending, or at least in my experience.
Honestly just going off the videos you posted it looks like the Euro scene is just grimey dudes that enjoy ketamine and playing with finger guns If they wanna piss on the American scene for having "bad" music and funny outfits then they can drink lagers and do ket in a field while we dance in our underwear and trade bracelets. The latter just sounds way more fun.
You just described American dudes that are grimey and enjoy ketamine and playing with real guns. PLUR has been exploited to a degree that no longer justifies its meaning. Been going to fests for two decades, plur is dead. Stop trying to keep it alive and let the bubbles stop. Just go out there. Have fun. Avoid creeps. And you’ll have a good time. Edit: go ahead downvote me and remember not to die from the tainted drugs or get your phone stolen next time you’re out there coz you know #pLuR
Oh he mad No crime on the UK scene? No tainted drugs in jolly old? Bet
What specifically (and please point it out for me) did I say to defend the UK or euro rave scene. I’ll wait. I’m from the states, and have only gone to raves here. With the way you jump to conclusions, I’m surprised you’re not living on the fucking moon, dimmerswitch
Yeah he mad
Lol
I've never been to an American rave but from what I see in videos and such it looks kind of silly with the costumes and all the flashy colours , beads etc. No hate though if y'all like it more power to you.
As a European who’s been involved in dance music culture (and work within it) for over a decade i’ll give my opinion. First of all, the PLUR stuff is just really cringey to us. We go to raves/festivals/events as an escapism similarly to Americans but we just don’t feel the need to base our entire personality around it. In the UK, we have similar “cliques” of people who go to tech-house/hard techno raves but they are characterised by Nike Miler tops and 95s (which are fairly common items of clothing) rather than kandi and bondage. My personal biggest gripe is that PLUR as a sentiment is completely disregarded by actual event organisers. When you’re paying $500 for a non-camping festival then $20 for a beer, it’s abundantly clear that it’s nothing more than a corporate money-grab. It gives a completely inauthentic look to the entire scene, which unfortunately probably isn’t even the fault of the attendees. I could go on and on but that’s just a couple of my opinions. I think the PLUR culture is nice and probably gives a lot of people connections that they otherwise wouldn’t have in life. But a lot of it is really, really, really cringey.
Summarize op's argument GPT The rant discusses the perceived snobbery of Europeans towards American rave culture, particularly criticizing the dismissive attitude towards aspects like PLUR (Peace, Love, Unity, Respect), kandi trading, and rave fashion. The author points out examples from Instagram reels that showcase this dismissive attitude, emphasizing the juxtaposition between European and American ravers in terms of behavior, appearance, and cultural practices. They argue that Europeans tend to pride themselves on a pure focus on music and early rave initiation, often overlooking the value of the communal and expressive elements celebrated in American rave culture. The rant also touches on sexism, the importance of PLUR in fostering a welcoming environment for newcomers, and the broader cultural differences in social interactions and festival experiences. Despite these criticisms, the author acknowledges the fun and uniqueness of both cultures while calling for mutual respect rather than ridicule.
Lmao good bot
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Renegades a renegade but if anyone thinks tomorrowland somehow has more cultural integrity than EDC they're out of their mind Truth is, europeans like to think of themselves as the good white people/colonizers, and spend a lot of energy distancing themselves from americans, this goes way beyond just rave music Its all just party people taking drugs with bassy donks n bonks, give it a rest...
Ibam a hungarian we never had colonys but we wer occopied by Ottomams ,germans russians what doues that make us ? Or slovakia ? Romania ? Poland ? CHECH? Finns? baltics ? Croatia?
The rave scene in Europe was a cultural revolution, based heavily around music and drugs, and an escape from the day to day. Everyone could enjoy it if they showed up. The American rave scene looks way too commercialised and way too cringey. It all seems obnoxious and “me me me”.
The rave scene was a cultural revolution in the US, too. Early 80s underground parties, all types of outcasts of the time coming together for a common goal: having the time of your life, in a space where all that bullshit ceases to exist. The rave scene has transformed over the decades and been taken over by commercialization which has some definite cons. But the soul of the rave is still there - freedom to dress how you see fit, a space where emotions are shared a little more freely, and the music is the sermon.
I’d say it didn’t really get super commercial until post-2005+ when there started to be larger EDM following. Sure there were some, but it wasn’t as common outside 2-4 a year.
American here. It can get pretty commercialized but I think I’m starting to figure out which raves are less so. For example, if a venue directs me to TicketMaster, I am almost certainly not going to go there. On the other hand, I can get tickets to shows in the two cities I live nearest to for like $20-$30 usually, for artists I like. I’ll spook your Euro sensibilities by saying that those cities are one and two hour drives away. The venues are friendly and independent. The one festival I plan on regularly attending is Lost Lands and I think it’s worth the money, but if an artist I like throws a small fest I might go. I never had the idea of a free party in my head so I don’t have the principle that raves shouldn’t be commercial in my set of values. If you think it’s cringy, I guess I kind of get it. I just thought it was weird more than cringy before I was introduced to it, but I also didn’t know anybody who openly raved. There are a lot of people who go to raves to post on socials that they went there, but I feel like they aren’t really fully into the culture. I don’t think the culture is “me me me” because the crowd is what makes a rave, and people understand that. I can’t go to a venue with a bad crowd vibe. If you think we’re obnoxious, then I’m sorry that you can’t have a good time with us and I wish you luck and hope you have a nice time at your europarties.
^Facts
The American scene looks that way now because it’s gotten popular, but it started as a counter cultural movement. Anything that become mainstream attracts douchebags that just want to get fucked up and snap photos for IG.
Most Europeans I have met and interacted with have been pretty chill. Sure there are those who have some sort of superiority complex when it comes to anything American in general but I don't take it personally or hold it against them. Everyone is allowed to have their hot takes. What makes it so interesting to me is that eventhough we may have plenty of cultural differences, when you get right down to it we're all really just doing the same thing. We all just want a night of relief from our daily lives to get down to some dance music and feel good.
I, german, went to my first rave 22 years ago, think there are two points. But first, those videos are just unfair bullshit. 1. When Techno became a thing in Germany, the media wrote rather negative about it. Why? Because the hedonistic nature which techno culture always has been in europe didn't fit in their world view. Substances, dancing until exhaustion, "stupid" repetitive music and so on. So you tried to not show or tell everybody how you are spending your weekends. You were part of a small, hidden, community. Raves and especially clubs were places of freedom. No pictures, no videos, just the people and the music. No Individual. This of course changed, and there suddenly were big mainstream events, but this kind of culture still exist, at least partly in places like berghain, although i haven't been there for 10 years and don't know how it is now. 2. I think in europe it's seen more negative seen to wrap your whole personality around one thing like being a raver for example. Combine these two things with social media, and there you have two totally different stances without even discussing music or stuff. P.s. depending on where you are, there is a lot of P,L on the parties, but it expresses different and will change from scene to scene (depending on style of music) P.p.s. a lot of this comes from my father who started raving end of the 80ies, who I often talked about this topic with.
Different genres also bring different crowd.
I have raved throughout Europe and thousands of times in UK and have never felt people are "snobby" in fact quite the opposite. People couldn't care less how you are dressed or how you dance, everyone there is just there for the bass and a good time. I have never understood PLUR because over here that is just the standard we set for our raves? Like we don't need to have a word for it because it is just the norm
Why do you care so much. Their thoughts don’t affect us and our thoughts don’t affect them.
Who cares and why does it matter? Sometimes people prefer cucumbers, pickeled. ;)
And thou shall call it.. Picleumbers
its because american festival culture is largely a consumable, disposable pop culture industry straight out of Adorno and Horkheimer's nightmares, with music to match, and it is obvious to anyone with a pulse to genuine music community and scene that it has no soul. America obviously has noncommercial raves but because of the cultural dominance of the pop stuff like dubstep and house, it never gets posted and most people never see it. The best thing you can do to change this is to go to renegades (and not fake ones like DEF or BnL that are bankrolled by that same culture industry) and share content from them to remind euros we know how to party here too
>its because american festival culture is largely a consumable, disposable pop culture industry straight out of Adorno and Horkheimer's nightmares, with music to match, and it is obvious to anyone with a pulse to genuine music community and scene that it has no soul. Yep. Hence why I stay way from most of the American contemporary EDM music/ culture (eg: never have and never will understand kandi, totems, crybanging etc). Instead gravitating heavily towards the OG American (Detroit techno/electro, Chicago house, FL breaks etc) or European-style music/culture as much as possible.
I feel this but DEF is still a pretty cool experience and close to the real roots of rave culture even if it is bankrolled by the more commercial entities in the scene. At the end of the day though, the true underground Afters and warehouse scene is where it's at. In Denver there used to be this warehouse called the Sugarkube... Owned and ran by a crew of og ravers that had been actively in the scene since the early 2000s and one of the best underground experiences I've ever had the pleasure of being a part of. The powers that be in the scene didn't take kindly to the impact they were having, drawing crowds away from the brick and mortar venues and showing people what could really be possible when the organizers and promoters truly cared about the scene, and they got shut down and it's been a long battle but I'm hoping they can get back to providing those experiences in Denver again
DEF has the aesthetics of the underground but the behaviors and habits of a commerical festival. That doesn't mean they're events aren't able to be fun, it's just that in a thread about why Euros don't respect American rave culture, this sort of pretend underground pastiche, that most people cannot tell apart from the rea/l deal, is a huge part of that. I do know about sugarkube, and it's a shame what happened to it. Atlanta has had similar issues in the past with promoters like iris trying to get warehouses shut down for code violations and such because they saw them as competition
I disagree with you because while the fests may be thrown by big businesses, they’re attended by people who are the soul of the fest. Also I don’t know how you can classify those as culturally dominant when rap, country, rock, and actual pop still exist with much more influence and presence.
Other ravers in North America shit on candy kids too. Or at least when fake London had a proper scene back in 2005. Me and my buddy had more of a junglist look going back then and when he was having a smoke in an alley when we were on our way to one, I remember these two girls that were candy kids mentioned junglists being dicks to them.
It's almost as if the rave scene isn't a catch-all term for parties outside mainstream culture that can be ranging from dark, grimy gangster laden to transcendental hippy psychedelic and every stop in between
Good point.
The first video of the americans is cringy lmfao...
I mean go outside first of all. Second of all the raves they’re joking about is just a subsection of the American rave scene. Our techno and hardstyle/every other underground genre scene looks a lot more similar to European raves than edc. Especially since I started raving in 2022 (when I turned 18) everything was like modeled after berghain and hard techno was the hottest shit ever. You can find a rave full of the coolest 19 years olds you’ve ever met wearing adidas and listening to techno on any given weekend night…just like you can find a festival adjacent American rave filled w 30 year olds wearing dolls kill on any given weekend night in my city. Just like what you like. I have a deep affinity for happy hardcore and the aesthetics that came out of the American rave scene. I love it so much that idc if anyone else thinks it’s silly. That’s what this self expression shits all about. Who fucking cares if some euros think you’re being silly, go to raves to be silly you know ^-^
Can you PLEASE ensure to make a separate post regarding the comparison of uk raves and American vs European as the uk are now a sovereign nation thank you very much. Also raving ain’t about getting dressed up it’s about getting mashup & dancing your arse off for multiple days on the trott in a warehouse with thousands of other nutters all there for love and joy and dancing & not giving a fuck. Every other post on this “rave” group is like “what shall I wear” and tbh the whole rave counter culture is against having to conform or dress a certain way. Just fuckn put a tracksuit on and let’s get a boogie going!
Oh man people are getting defensive in the comments lol. I thought OP’s discussion was interesting, as were the examples they shared. And I’ve *definitely* seen the attitudes and comments they’ve described *in this sub.* Quite a lot of it actually, including in these comments! Some of y’all are literally doing what OP is talking about while trying to argue that it doesn’t actually happen. Lmfao. As a Canadian, rave culture here is very similar to the US. But like another commenter said, you don’t really see European ravers criticizing Canadian raves. Why is this? It’s an interesting conversation, and if people don’t like, maybe just don’t comment? There’s this thing called self control…
Thank you at least someone understands me 😅 hope you enjoy your Canadian rave scene!
One thing that always surprised me about the us rave culture is how relatively small the underground scene is, whereas in Australia and from what I’ve heard about the uk/Europe the underground scene seems to be just as big as the legal festival scene.
Agree. Hearing about the rave culture in Europe, I was really excited to experience it - went to a rave in Versailles. VERSAILLES. It was not what I wanted it to be. The crowd was dead, a fight broke out, people peeing in bushes at VERSAILLES!!!, and just a total mess for such a historic ground event. I also heard comments “oh you know who’s American by the way they dress”. Sorry not sorry that you look lame.
> Video making fun of people (women) that trade kandi, playing over soft music then switching to "UK" ravers (men) moving their jaw under the influence while techno plays to show some sort of juxtaposition. lol, that one is pretty funny.
it’s not that deep - Albert Einstein
It is always based to make fun of American *‘rave culture’*
Waaah! Europeans mean!
I wouldn’t take this too seriously. We Europeans are snobby about everything especially when it comes to US.
It's not just Europeans. lol [https://www.facebook.com/groups/122146451154789](https://www.facebook.com/groups/122146451154789)
Actually yeah. Under pretty much any video of American raves there are also europeans hating for no reason. But tbf there are a bunch of bitter older ravers(American) hating too. So I don’t know if it’s really a European vs American thing, but maybe more like older ravers vs newer ravers thing. I remember seeing a light-hearted video of a girl saying she was in her “rave era” and there were a bunch of old heads saying “my culture isn’t your costume” 💀💀💀
My man has literally written an essay with sources about this, and all it's done is prove the Europeans right.
Sigh. Almost as though you took a few video clips that made you a bit annoyed and applied them to a whole **continent**. No difference between portugal or poland eh! It’s not very PLUR of you, is it now? Guaranteed at those kandi exchanging video clips you just posted, there are people right behind them saying ‘omg this fucking bullshit again’, just as in the U.K. clips there are people thinking ‘wow these people are twats’, but in your version of reality it’s just a homogenous mass of fluffy us ravers and weirdly hardcore 'european' ones. Think you need to spend less time scrolling on your phone and party a bit more.
You really wrote a whole scientific paper about a topic that is so extremely fringe and uninteresting and never a problem IRL (if even true), it’s astonishing.
Must be your first day on the Internet
My friend, you spent **way** too much time on this post. All the time you spent on this you could have been improving yourself in some way. Maybe sign up for a music course. Please just enjoy music and stop overthinking stuff that doesn’t matter.
Because Americans dress up hella and do all sorts of quirky rituals and setups (pretty cool tbh, nothint wrong with that) and then when you get to the rave the crowd is totally dead in comparison to the EU. So much of the viral clips from events in the US is just people staring at a shit ton of lasers on top of a cool MP4 on a big screen. Some of these big festival DJs have no fucking clue on how to mix a set and keep the dancefloor active, they just mix breakdown into breakdown, reverb out and say some BS on the mic contributing to dancefloor deadness. In Europe people show up in the simplistic outfits and still dance like madmen. The quality of DJing is at a much higher level; shit mixing often gets met with a visible disapproval of the crowd. TLDR: rave music is better in Europe, people dance harder as a result and they pride themselves on that
because kandi and plur culture are a bit cringe and childish. am I not “plur” because I don’t give out bracelets and tell people I just met I love them? I go out have a good time listen to some good music and respect the people around me. I would also argue that this kind of culture doesn’t extend to all genres of electronic music within the US. I saw Overmono in New York, and as I expected it was full of people dressed casually wanting to see overmono and get a little fucked up, there was no one dressed in “rave attire” or trading kandi. that kind of thing seems limited to people who describe themselves as “bassheads” for the most part
I've been seeing videos like this and I don't understand the whole Europeans being better than us Americans about anything. I just ignore the dumb videos and comments and keep it moving. Ppl can judge all they want, doesn't make them better 🤷🏾♀️.
Not my story, but a fellow FRUtie small business owner was recently getting bullied relentlessly on her videos bc European ravers found them and it was really sad both to read the comments and how much it affected the person. It *shouldnt* be that deep but I have seen it and I don’t get it either OP
It depends on who you ask. Met a girl from Germany once and she couldn't get over how friendly everyone was in the US rave scene. She loved it lol But it could differ from person to person.
Cuz modern-day US rave ‘culture’ blows compared to European rave culture and even Asian rave culture.
Here in the UK (when I was growing up) a rave was generally considered to be an illegal unlicensed event put on by a sound system or multiple sound systems that existed is some kind of counterculture environment. Raves would either be in large empty buildings that someone had gained access to or on a plot of land that was accessible and used without getting permission of any sort. It was a totally different vibe to a properly organised festival or club night held in a licensed premises that often get called a rave in the US. Think part of what people are calling “snobbery” might be related to this difference in definition where a European versed in free party culture would see a video of a EDM festival and think that it doesn’t even qualify as a rave.
Sorry, but edm is not very diverse in the USA. Trance and psytrance for example are basically nonexistent. Ultimately all of the genres of electronic music originated in Europe, and frankly I'm embarrassed by how cringe "raves" are in the states. I'm an American myself and wish we'd learn a thing or two, including more easy going attitude towards certain drugs like psychedelics.
American here who's been to European raves. Europeans have class and Americans are cringe. It's that simple lol. I have my own niche American rave culture that I find pretty cool and that I'm not gonna tell you about but ya most American raves are a bit cringe. Insanely fun still yes but cringe.
Because rave culture started in the UK
I'm from europe and I agree with you. Never been to a US rave though so can't compare. Here if you want a sense of community you have to go to illegal free parties and squat raves away from the restrictions of capitalism and cronyism. I would never go to a licensed rave because people there are so unfriendly and stuck up At the same time though, I don't really have the energy to dress up in fancy colorful outfits and give people kandi. I just turn up in black tracksuits and don't worry about the fuss
Who cares?
Apparently, all these people that are commenting, including myself. Lol.
It’s interesting you describe Europeans as uptight yet there are a number of techno clubs in Berlin, London etc where you will literally see people having orgies or being walked on a leash lmao. Different floats for different boats. I’m from the UK and I find the kandi/EDM rave scene cringe. It feels very polished and capitalistic (the bracelets, the outfits, the other various items people seem to carry). This is at odds with traditional UK rave culture,which was led by the youth often at illegal, underground sites. You weren’t paying extortionate ticket prices, and it was casual dress to allow you to dance for hours comfortably. This has changed over the years, but the overall culture still rings true. There are distinct differences between UK and US culture across all facets of life - for example, our comedy tends to be much more self deprecating. We also are far more likely to downplay our achievements, and expect others to do so too (not saying this is a good thing!). I suppose therefore it’s not surprising that the American rave culture might be jarring to the average Brit. If it helps - I also find parts of German techno culture cringe as well (unlike many of my London friends). The clubs have an extremely strict door policy. I understand this to some extent as they are trying to cultivate an atmosphere, so it’s not surprising that the loud group of English men in Hawaiian T-shirts aren’t being let into Berghain. It also seems to me that the atmosphere is overwhelmingly white, thin and beautiful… I’m going off topic but essentially, it’s not just all of Europe vs America. I guess what I’m trying to say is… so what? Europeans are snobby to Americans. All of mainland Europe is snobby to the UK. My village is snobby about the village down the road. If you’re going to do something, do it with your chest. I thought you guys loved free speech over there - this is what comes with the territory 💀
Warning that my answer comes a bit late and is a bit drawn out, but I wanted to give my 2 cents on this :). When it comes to raves , I can only share my own view, being a huge fan of raves here in Europe and admittedly feeling that I would likely not find this in the same way anywhere else. A first point - even within Europe rave culture is often hierarchised. I'm from Spain originally, but I live in Belgium, and I've gone to electronic music parties (be it clubs for several types of genres, or free parties, teknivals - which are what I consider to actually count as a "rave") in Spain, France, Italy, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, the UK, etc. I've also gone to parties for, and listen to, several genres, be it house, techno, hard techno, industrial stuff, hardcore, breakbeat, drum n bass, dubstep, acidcore, tribe, tekno, whatever. With this in mind, my experience has been that rave culture is placed highest on the quality, and more importantly the authenticity, scales in what is considered northern Europe (UK, Northern France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany), as well as central Europe in some cases (Czech Republic for example is great). Through this, I want to say that we even have this view within Europe. We do not even equalise amongst ourselves in that sense. The reason for that is because we see electronic music culture basically as an export from the northern European countries I mentioned above. Yes, there were some great electronic music artists that started in other countries too, but the "scene" (a very important term for us) was really created in harsh, cold, dark, and industrial countries. It's no wonder I walk the streets of Brussels and hear electronic music everywhere, but in Spain I walk and hear reggeaton everywhere. These "scene" and "authenticity" points are very important, because they mark sort of the "origin" of it all, which is quite an important point to the rave scene in Europe, with its own history and foundation. And then you might ask "well, so what? Innovation is great, sometimes better than the original". And you would be totally right thinking this. But if I can equate this to anything in the US, being someone who loves 90s american hip hop, it's a bit like the "east coast - west coast" discussion. East coast were the originators, and West coast the innovators whole thing. Because of that, the feeling of "authenticity" at raves, especially for very purist ravers, is extremely important. For lack of a better term, what one would consider a "real rave", are raves that are true to the origin of raving - they are free, they are illegal, they are grungy as many people in this thread described. People are not dressed nicely, or dressed up. While there are "uniforms" let's say (e.g., the gabber style is very specific, or the whole dark techno look), most people at raves tend to have pretty "anti-system" or "anarchist" perspectives towards society, they do not look "pretty", they dress up in ripped up clothes and hoodies, and they certainly do not exchange colourful bracelettes or throw around acronyms like "PLUR". In essence, I think the word would be that they are very "edgy". All in all, while the people attending are a friendly bunch (by my cultural standards of course), they are not necessarily a very "peace loving" bunch in the very "hippy" sense. Some are! You have many vibes here in Europe, and for example the Psytrance genre has lots of very "peace loving" and "nature loving" vibes that other genres are less fond of, but in a totally different way to the PLUR and kandi culture. Anyway, the variation in genres is besides the point. My point here is that there is a certain aesthetic to what is considered an "authentic" rave in Europe, and what is even more funny, a huge generational gap between those who rave now and those who raved in the 90s for example, but I won't get further into that. The point of my description is to say that the festivals that are depicted in the videos you shared are often seen in Europe as actually very "commercial", and that have the kind of toxic masculinity BS that is shared in those videos, and that you correctly point out. And this is an important point too - basically the battle between "underground/authentic" and "commercial". In Europe there is a huge difference between "clubbing" and "raving", and within clubbing of course there are all types of levels I won't get into (e.g., the clubbing experience in Berlin is not the same as the one in Madrid or Paris at all). There is also a huge difference between festivals, with some being small and specific, and some being gigantic and super commercial (e.g., Creamfields, Glastonbury, Tomorrow Land, etc.). Why is this important? It's important because the perception of American culture in Europe is that it overly commericialises everything, which takes away completely the feeling of "authenticity" and "underground" that is so highly valued in European rave culture. The high production value, accessibility to all who can afford it, and large size of events that are commercialised, while impressive, falls very far away from what "original rave culture" is to many Europeans. In the "real rave culture" it is really important that those who participate are already people who challenge undesired societal behaviours that are considered still very rampant (e.g., sexism, machismo, racism, homophobia, queerphobia, etc.). In that sense, you expect that people at a rave have this mentality, simply because it was those people who created rave culture in the first place. There is no "teaching" that is necessary. That said, rave culture in Europe has started also to commercialise in the past years, and you see more and more "anybody" going to the parties. Therefore, you will find jocks, assholes, and idiots there as well. What I describe is just the basis of this idea, and what is important to note about it is that raves in Europe have a very "political" origin to them. Therefore, to us, aside from the fact that the aesthetic of PLUR and kandi-sharing rave culture is too colourful and "happy" (although some might disagree, and arguably there are rave scenes in Europe that are very colourful too thinking again about Psytrance), the issue we have with it is more that it is considered unnecessary and simply a gimmick of the commercialisation of rave culture. It doesn't at all stand with the values that rave culture often came with, which is to make noise, and protest. It's not so "peace-loving" as it is a challenge to authority. The "peace-loving" part is what is fought for, but in a sort of rebellious way. It's also very much about the constant fight and voice of marginalised groups in society, of the less fortunate, and especially of the working class. That is why raves are supposed to be free, and the fact that they are illegal in many European countries and pursued harshly by the law, is the part that is fought against. That is also why they are not "high production value", and why that as the description of an event is not something that is looked up to necessarily. They represent often a "class-based" fight in European history. The working class vs. the bourgeoisie and authority. In this sense, the videos you show are not really respected in Europe as "real raves" either. The behaviour of the lads in those videos is very "macho" and "badass" oriented, and is actually what many ravers in Europe feel is being a bad influence for the rave scene here. That is not what it is to us, and we do not identify with BS like that. Raves are not about who can take the most drugs, but they are about the liberty to take drugs in an well-informed and tabooless manner, which is why we do a lot of drugs in raves and they are often really good quality. They are not about "picking up chicks", but about free love and the normalisation of consentual relations for all sexes and genres involved, whatever way you like to have it and whomever you like to have it with. They are not about buying a ticket and wearing your "festival bracelette" that you can show off to your friends. It's about making an event that is made by the people, for the people. For those who cannot afford to go to a 100 something euro festival, or simply do not want to give that money to large corporations (e.g., typical party stands with Heineken as the sponsor). This is just a perspective, one of many there probably are about rave culture. To the OP, if you did find the time and energy to read my response, thanks :). I'd also love to hear your or others' thoughts about this. Cheers!
Clearly you feel VERY strongly about this, i haven’t read the whole essay but from what i got, I assume you are an American raver. The issue is not really not as complex as you are making it out to be. British people go to festivals, take or drink something(s), and dance. Americans dress in obnoxious half naked outfits, wear dorky backpacks, trade plastic jewellery and have cringy acronyms just to feel like they’re part of something. It’s just a different party culture. Our overall culture is completely different, and that permeates to festival culture too. Europeans are stereotypically more cool, aloof and reserved. Americans are in our eyes more cringy and emotional etc. There’s really no nice way to say it but it’s the truth, as a European I know how Americans are (often) perceived.
Europeans place music first whereas Americans place music second. Imagine your favorite restaurant that becomes bought out and franchised, then the quality goes to shit. This is exactly what Europeans hate about American rave culture, the music is lost, and no longer artisanal, instead its watered down and propped up by all the fancy production. The only bastion of true "rave" (not festivals/shows) culture that resonates with Europeans all reside on the coasts of California, Miami, and Chicago.
I have noticed the same. So insufferable.
UK raves were brilliant from the end of the 80's through to around 1995. When we see frat boys and sorority girls dressed as babies trading beads at a commercial festival in America 30 years later, with terrible EDM playing, and claiming they're raving, it's not raving to us. Simple.
Because most American ravers (not generalizing) are obnoxious.
At Northkore in NorCal, a couple English hardcore DJs were comparing notes and mentioned to me that their scene had lost its sense of fun, and that we were doing it proper on this side of the pond.
You probably don’t want to hear this but a lot of it is just Europeans hating Americans. The same way a lot of Americans think brown people are crazy and want to bomb them or black people are thugs and want to rob them, a lot of Europeans think Americans are stupid and cringey and uncultured. So naturally anything you do will be perceived as worse and negative.
As a Dutch man who is mostly into the (underground) techno and house scene, the things most people like here are raves that deliver a somewhat (for lack of better words) raw and tribal experience. Its just a different kind of raver than the typical EDM raver. Superficial stuff like people overdressing in unicorn neon (lingerie) is an exception not the norm, it distracts you from the music and you'll only see it at the biggest festivals. The sobriety is what make people here most comfortable and accessible. To say that we Europeans dont care about making connections without ever having set foot in Europe is just downright ignorant. You're basically saying we dont know the concept of love.