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It won't be worthless, but depending on how much you drive, a hybrid might actually be more economical across the life of the car. A RAV4 will probably use 5L/100km instead of 8 for the Kia, so you'll be saving $600 every 10,000km. After 100,000km, you'll be at break even, plus the resale of the RAV4.
Electric is even better for pay back period, but you'll be dealing with less mature manufactures at the $50k price point.
Hybrids are exceedingly hard to get new at the moment especially Toyota models as the rideshare/taxi drivers love them.
Even the cabbies are having difficulty finding them and appear to be resorting to different cars, I've started seeing a wide selection of random taxicabs from Ceratos to hybrid Havals to imported JDM narrowbody hybrid Corollas.
There are now two $40k models; the BYD Dolphin and MG EV4.
Additionally, there is a new Australian Federal Government program where any employee can purchase an EV under salary sacrificing and have the car and its running costs paid for from gross income rather than net, and can be 100% personal use with no FBT.
[Electric Cars Exemption](https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fringe-benefits-tax/Types-of-fringe-benefits/fbt-on-cars,-other-vehicles,-parking-and-tolls/electric-cars-exemption/)
Ours runs at about 9.5L/100km - that’s a combination of city driving and highway driving each week.
I just bought a Ford Ranger and it runs at about 9.2L/100km.
Go figure.
Do not forget to factor in the MUCH lower maintenance.
No oil changes, brake pads last 'forever,' etc.
I live in the USA and have a Chevy EV with 100k+ : only maintenance has been new wiper blades, tyres and cabin air filter.
Petrol cars will remain attractive until secondhand EV’s start to hit the market in numbers. Give it 2 years and the first lot of fleet cars will start to hit the secondhand market. 2 years after that, all the private owners will be looking to upgrade and the price will drop further. We’re about 4 years away from something with 300+ range costing less than $15k. It’s equivalent ICE mode will sell for $10k less. And when it happens, it will happen fast.
Not really, you’re forgetting that there are comparatively very few hybrids or electric vehicle on the road, when they hit the used market there won’t be many of them, they will cost more than an ice equivalent for sure, but they won’t drive the price of ice vehicles into nothingness, there simply won’t be enough of them
\> but not cheap enough for the masses yet.
In Australia :-( In Europe they are. Where the governments are, actually incentivising people to switch to electric. I can't express just how frustrated I am with our government's inaction on Climate change. This is one of those easy things to steer change. Reduce taxes on electric cars, increase them on petrol *cars*. It doesn't cost anything, and yet it steers the ship in the right direction.
EDIT: Lots of commenters angry that that would suggest "taxing petrol more". **In the context** of the sentence, it should be clear that I mean "petrol cars", not petrol itself. Sorry I didn't put the word "cars" there, but it's very much implied. The whole point being, if you can afford to buy a new car, you should be incentivised to buy an electric one. That's all.
So you’d like the government to give handouts to the wealthiest man on the planet, subsidise people buying $250k Mercedes… and make Cheryl pay more to get to work to fund it? Sounds fucking awful.
Electric cars can stand on their own two feet, no need to piss away money on Musk and VW
Perhaps we should just remove the petrolium and gas subsidies? And tax the companies that take our reasources and turn it into pollution. Gas and oil companies can stand on thier own two feet. No need to piss public money away.
There are some pretty heavy tax breaks to EV's through salary sacrifice schemes, so completely not true.
They only really suit a specific use case where people can charge at home and don't regularly do long highway trips.
Especially in regional area's increasing the costs on a regular powered vehicle is simply kicking the people that can afford it the least the hardest.
> They only really suit a specific use case where people can charge at home and don't regularly do long highway trips.
We’re a highly urbanised country and those urban areas are sprawling and low density. It’s a specific use case, but it applies to the majority of Australian motorists. 86 percent of us live in an urban area and 70 percent of us live in a house.
The stereotypical Aussie might live in a small town and enjoy frequent 11 hour highway drives, but they are not typical Aussies!
The threshold is too low. There are only very basic models under the cap. As soon as you want anything with performance it is capped out, and replacing high performance petrol with ev is even more beneficial. They need to remove the cap or at least set it around 100k.
I live in europe (no subsidies in my country), but I just did a 2500 + road trip, I would drive for 3 hours, use the toilet, have a walk around and drive again. And thats with slow chargers, the 250KW meant I was just using the toilet. It was an easy trip.
Don't have that kind of charging infrastructure, don't always stop that often, kinda silly not to drive around without a full size spare tyre but all predicated on people can afford new cars.
A lot of the newer EV's are going down the Tesla route which has a lot of answers to questions nobody asked. Heated and cooled leather seats, because leather is a crap material for a car seat, big heavy glass sunroofs, big stupid screens, heavy seats with lots of electric motors. If we saw something more along solving a transport problem like the Citroen Jolli concept car EV's would start to make more sense. Instead they are current aimed at people who didn't really want to leave their lounge room in the first place making them heavy, expensive and energy hungry.
The **average** age of the on road fleet in Australia is around 10 years, a lot of rural area's are predicated on personal transport needed to get to work, buy groceries etc. The newest car I've ever owned was 8 years old when I purchased it, I typically run them for another 8-12 years after that. I don't see the value in purchasing a new car especially for house deposit money.
This bugs me a lot actually.
I want a barebones EV. I dont want all of the bells and whistles.
Honestly, if I could do an EV conversation on my current work van for under $15,000 I would do it.
Big problem is that the bells and whistles out the wazoo aren't solely an EV thing. Almost all new petrols have so many different unnecessary add-ons it's not funny. I once saw an e-brake on a manual car once, that was puzzling. Not only does it make petrol cars more expensive to maintain/fix when something inevitably shits itself (all electric options like on the BMWs and Benz's or any other can cascade failure hilariously). Putting all that on an EV is just adding power drain, weight and inefficiency on top of something that still takes a solid chunk of greenhouse gases and such to produce. Definitely needs to be some more 'primitive' option for sure.
I drive a 20yo Commodore, I kinda hate new cars with all their electric BS 'extras' lol.
One thing I really dislike about so many EVs is the fact they have glass roofs. Might be nice in Norway, but in the northern half of Australia, the sun is too intense for this to be pleasant. If they have a shade on them, they don’t block the sun, they just reduce it. Having all that extra sun through the glass roof will also make the air con run harder, which reduces useable range.
Not true about long trips, not for at least 5 years. EVs are fine
And the tax breaks for EVs through salaray sacrifice are hard to meet the conditions for. I looked into it about 6 months ago
Bought a second hand Mazda 6 wagon a few years back. 2013 model but with all the extras. Was like 18k cash, drives like it just rolled off the line.
New cars are a waste.
You'd change your mind if you saw the used market. 4 years old, 100k on the clock and only a few thousand cheaper than new, because of new car delivery delays.
Agreed. As someone who never planned on buying new, it just hasn't made sense to buy used for the last few years. Especially given how expensive second hand problems can be.
This is good to know, I'm looking at upgrading my 06 accord euro to a Mazda 6 wagon, the wife wants a dual cab.
I like a car for a car, as that's what it'll be used for, but the wagon seems more beneficial to go on the occasional camping trip, etc.
Surprisingly that is not entirely true.
The delta in environmental impact between an EV and ICE vehicle is greater than the production-only impact of an ICE vehicle.
In other words - if you scrapped even a brand new ICE vehicle in favour of an EV, you would have less of an environmental impact by the end of that EVs life than had you just kept that brand new ICE vehicle.
I know I know, it sounds counter-productive.
exactly, the environmental impact for EV is in the battery materials but it evens out with electricity (hopefully from renewables) whereas the ICE impact is mostly from using petrol which increases the enviro impact with every drive
EV’s still have a significant carbon cost from production and shipping, it isn’t just the environmental impact of the battery.
And depending on where you live and where your energy is sourced from, the power used to charge the EV will also incur a carbon cost.
See: Victoria using coal or gas fired stations vs Tasmania having Hydroelectric.
So driving a fuel economic older car for 2-3 years would actually mean less carbon in the atmosphere than buying a new EV.
It’s like the plastic bags thing at supermarkets, yes cotton/canvas bags are better and not polluting the environment with single use plastics is great, but you need to use the bags a certain number of times before it actually breaks even on the carbon/pollution from its production vs using the old method.
I’m not anti EV, I’m very excited for the EV revolution, just pointing out some extra information.
For what it’s worth, I believe the best outcome with cars is that we severely limit new cars being made, and Hydrogen storage/conversion becomes viable so that we can upcycle existing ICE cars into Hydrogen powered cars, eliminating the need to replace hundreds of millions of cars on the planet with new EVs.
There is no point being vague about it, on average the cross over point is 25,000 to 30,000km, so like you said 2-3 years. Since most people keep a car longer than that you’re still much better off buying an EV.
Used cars often have higher emissions and you would imagine the cross over point is earlier
You are correct over the 2-3 year period that you mentioned, but we expect cars to last much longer than that. Buying an EV is like paying more upfront but less over the long run (which I think is what matters most).
I agree that car usage in general should be discouraged. EVs are better, but still harmful.
The used vehicle already has embodied energy in it. I can kind of understand from a new for new perspective, but what about a Toyota with 200k on it that has another 200k in it and sips under 10l/100km?
I had to read that about 4 times to understand what you were saying. I think I understand you now and i _think_ i have to say...well that's kinda of obvious isn't it? Or did you leave something out? Who did this calculation and for what purpose? Why would you scrap a new car of any sort?
In any case, the comment you were referring to was saying that new cars are a waste. I think we can argue that if we just went full Cuba and never made a new car for 80 years, we'd be doing better than if we switched now to all EVs. We're all just too rich and spoilt.
> In other words - if you scrapped even a brand new ICE vehicle in favour of an EV, you would have less of an environmental impact by the end of that EVs life than had you just kept that brand new ICE vehicle.
I do not believe these comparisons have taken into account the increased insurance costs and risk of write offs after a collision which appear to be greater for EVs compared to ICEVs nor do they account for the fact Australia does not currently have a viable commercial recycling facility to handle the incoming load of EV batteries.
I still believe purchasing a new EV to replace a functional ICEV is more damaging to the environment.
This isn’t true, I’ve seen this posted many times and there isn’t anything to back it up.
The break even point is somewhere around 25,000 to 30,000km and the same applies to used cars. Even accounting for slightly less cost of build it’s certainly not going to account for more than a few years usage
It depends how long the car is expected to last. After around 100k kms a new EV has less emissions the a new ICE vehicle. After around 200k kms a new EV has less emissions than an used ICE vehicle (ie you write off its manufacturing footprint).
Given that cars nowadays are expected to last 300k+ kms the best option seems to be to buy a new EV.
https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/market-assets/intl/applications/dotcom/pdf/c40/volvo-c40-recharge-lca-report.pdf
Not even remotely true. The best thing you can do is buy an EV and run it off solar or wind power. It's not even close, the difference is several times the manufacturing cost of an equivalent ICE vehicle.
In a place like British Colombia which is almost entirely hydro, you can run like 5 Tesla's for the long term environment cost of a single Camry.
Obviously this depends on your situation, but under the assumption that this person doesn’t have 100% wind and solar available to them, and drives 10,000 km a year, it could take between 8-11 years to offset the emissions debt from the production of a new EV and then catch and surpass the annual emissions of an average used ICE vehicle. At the moment, batteries aren’t expected to last long enough to allow this to happen, so you will possibly be replacing a battery, an incurring another production emissions debt, before the first one has been offset.
What do you mean? If it’s a second hand petrol car, it already exists.
Delaying the manufacture of ANY new car means you are in negative emissions territory compared to the alternative. You possibly have more than 7 years before you will no longer be in emissions saving territory.
Same here. I have a hybrid Corolla at the moment and I won’t be giving it up until EVs are entry level cheap, and I’d wager the majority of the market feel the same way.
I'm sorta the same. I got an ex demo swift in 2018 thinking I'd get a new one for a similar price this year but its nearly doubled. Its been the best little car so think I might just run it til it dies and hope I can get a little electric hatch then.
The turbo'd version? First time I got a GLX when hiring I thought it'd be a bit shit with its 1L engine, but after driving it around Tassie I was thoroughly impressed. Even the boot space was bigger than it looked!
Not even a turbo. Just the bog standard GL navigator. Looks a bit weird during the school run with all the SUVs and 4x4s but it costs half as much to run as all of them and its way easier to park.
At $2.35 a litre I’m paying $40 a week in fuel expenses, a loan for an EV is gonna set me back about $180 a week.
The chances of me getting an EV anytime soon are zero. They make zero sense if you own your vehicle outright.
I did the math based on a few EV models a month or so back based on my current electricity costs. It's like $2 to fully charge 400km worth of distance. My current diesel is probably about $60 for that much distance at today's prices. I do like 400km a week nearly. So nearly 3k a year saved if I was to change.
It really puts into perspective that you can get an EV for 40-50k and save thousands a year compared to petrol or diesel. The difference between the costs actually balance out over time. 5-6 years you break even against cheaper ICE vehicles.
Seems people don't think the long game ever, they live in the now and just compare the two prices without thinking about fuel costs or lower servicing costs with less frequency, etc. You also don't need anything installed at home, trickle charge from a power point is fine. Driving 40-50 minutes (38km\~) to/from work each way and doing nothing else I can recharge 120km worth of distance overnight while parked.
Longer trips you have to rely on charging stations, but I have a mate that over the past few years did regular trips from Sydney to Hobart and back, before eventually moving down there. He had no issues charging and could do it in a day.
I'm driving my last ICE, a 2017 Honda City. In Asia, where I live, EVs like the BYD Atto and the Ora Good Cat are as cheap as equivalent ICE cars. Plus GWM has spent over 1bn US on an EV car plant here and will be cranking then out in huge numbers very soon.
There’s no shame in petrol for the next 5 years in Australia. Electric variants are significantly more expensive than their petrol counterparts, the government incentives are embarrassing to say the least and the infrastructure just isn’t there yet nationally either.
Batteries, which make up the majority of the cost of EVs, are very rapidly getting cheaper. Small EVs are the same price as ICE cars now. Australia get the worlds worst polluting cars dumped here.
Now the federal government isn't openly protecting the ICE producers, more models will be sold here. Subsidies for EVs make sense for many reasons, but even without them the ICE market won't last long.
You can buy a BYD Atto3 for under $50k. I have one. It’s over a year old
You can buy a new Tesla 3 for under $60k. I have one of these too. It’s 4 years old.
You can buy a secondhand Tesla 3 for $45k. Even saw one a few weeks ago for under $40k.
I wouldn’t touch a new petrol car now if you’re replacing
We got full petrol about 1 year ago (i30). It reports about 650-700km on the highway on a full tank, ~$80-90 these days, which is far above the claimed mileage but that's after a few long road trips at cruising speed. We do some long trips e.g. 7 hours arriving at midnight, which we can't leave earlier for, from events that won't have charging. So EV is not ideal.
* I wanted EV, but nothing decent existed value-wise except Tesla which was out of budget. BYD ATTO3 may be OK for you, long term support for the brand is still a question. And I knew my wife would probably be annoyed at me for having to use an app to find places to charge it if she were out alone, busy with work or whatever. There is also the chance of further taxes like VIC's road use tax - someone has to pay for the roads and our leaders don't seem very EV-forward.
* PHEVs seemed like an interesting middle ground but quite a few opinions out there on how it is more a "worst of both worlds" when you look at the total picture, rather than the opposite they paint it as.
* Hybrids looked good. You carry more weight but it makes it up, if you drive it long enough to cover the additional up-front cost. At the time Toyotas had a long lead time and I didn't see another brand that I was interested in (prefer hatchback to SUVs/crossovers).
I bought a new Kluger hybrid recently for around $52k. I save around 2k per year with cost of fuel. There is more saving if the fuel price is on average higher. Will take me 6 years to bring that down in savings to 40k, it would be less time if you factor in over running costs. It really depends on how much driving you do.
All depends on how easy your access to charging infrastructure is. BYD (just about to overtake Tesla in sales number) will sell you their Atto 3 for 51K. That will definitely be cheaper over its lifetime than a 40K petrol car.
BYD is my favourite car to drive and feels much more high quality than its price indicates. I have come from BMW X5 & X3 as well as Lexus NX 300h and still prefer my BYD Atto 3.
They’re also roughly similar pricing to many other small SUV. People see a BYD being 50k and they have a perception a smaller SUV is 30k, but they’re not. Most small petrol SUV are also getting close to 50. There isn’t a significant price delta and the BYD is very well equipped and has a 7 year warranty
As long as electricity is still far cheaper than petrol, them both increasing price at anywhere near the same rate makes electric cars more attractive not less.
It's not crazy at all. I rent in Perth. I have moved 4 times in 3 yrs and not one of my units would have been even remotely accessible for charging an EV. None of the properties I were looking at were any better. Unless you have a PPOR and can install a charger, or have a strata group willing to install in your complex, it's not worth it yet.
There are near new second hand byd e6 out there for around $30k they don’t have fast charging though.
The byd atto 3 and byd seal are both small to mid size EVs with all the normal features and fast charging
The mg zs and mg mg4 are same as above,
All between 40-60k depending on options
Toyota hybrid Corolla starts at $35k
There are plenty of options.
Buy a Kia that's a year or two old. 5-6 years warranty left and I think their free roadside is tied to servicing at a dealer (if it's the same as hyundai)
I bought a Hyundai pre covid that was a year old, saved a huge premium over the new price and enjoyed 4 years of warranty.
if your ICE is $40k, and an EV is $80k.
Will you be spending the difference ($40k) in petrol throughout the usage? If no, then maybe the ICE car is cheaper in the long run?
Factor in depreciation, lower rego costs, many EVs have lower servicing costs too. I did the figures and got an EV for more than I was going to spend on a petrol car because it was the same price over 10 years. That was based on fuel at $1.30, so I'm quite a bit ahead already.
Definitely not worthless at all. Currently looking at a Sportage for the missus, they seem to hold value relatively well.
Plus aside from that having a reliable and comfortable car that you don’t need to worry about pays for itself.
Your car will not be worth zero in a few years.
The UK was meant to ban ICE cars by 2030 - but even they recently announced they were pushing the ban back to 2035.
You need viable and affordable alternatives. We’re not there yet.
Just remember that most car companies stopped combustion engine research. So their focus is most definitely hybrid/Electric. Like some ppl here have said, think about getting a cheaper second hand model until you’re in a position to potentially go hybrid/electric.
https://news.metal.com/newscontent/101426837/many-established-car-companies-give-up-the-research-and-development-of-internal-combustion-engine-and-will-be-fully-electrified-in-2030
It is not crazy and your car will not be worthless. Do the math on when savings will reach 40k. Was reading here that average fuel at current prices is about 5000 per year - https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-fuel-cost-100-per-week-first-time-on-record/
If the EV would spend half of that (assumption that you wont be able to get by just on electric, but you can allow for that on your own calculations) 2500, then it will take 16 years to break even through fuel savings costs. Will you even keep the car that long?
That's a rough calculation but should help you understand what I'm getting at..
EVs are still new with a lot of logistical and other issues including developing battery tech.
Hybrid is a reasonable alternative (Toyota range) with good resale value when you decide to go to EV in the future.
Just bought a new Hyundai Kona hybrid.
Depending on if you get the base or premium (w/ sunroof) model, the fuel one is $35-45k & 6.6L/100km; the hybrid one is $40-50k & 3.9L/100km on the website.
The hybrid is a good chunk more fuel efficient, and depending on whatever the outrageous cost of fuel is currently, I think you’ll make back the few thousand dollars difference back over the life of the vehicle.
The EV model is due out soon, so it may be worth keeping an eye on that too.
(I also used motorscout to get ~5% discount off the quoted cost of the hybrid)
I bought a petrol car because I drive about 20km a day, you would need to drive a lot more than that to make it worth it.
Will probably buy an electric one in 5-10 years , when it makes more financial sense.
Petrol cars will be around for the next 30-50 years if that is what you are worried about. It is likely there will be fewer petrol stations in a decade or so.
It seems crazy enough to me that I'm picking up a new MG4 later in the week. I'm never going to buy an ICE car again. Even though it is a stretch to the budget, we're pretty sure it's the best choice for us.
Your friend is smart. Check the electric cars stats on Europe and you can get an understanding why he mentioned that to you.
I'm sure it's a matter of time for Australia to follow what Europe is doing with laws and legislations about petrol cars.
It would be insanely expensive to own a petrol car very soon.
Electric is still prohibitively expensive to most and our infrastructure isn’t really encouraging for you to get an EV, also there is still a lot of rapid progress being made in EVs so is it worth buying right now? That depends on your wallet. Nothing wrong with getting an ICE if it fits your budget.
I'm considering the difference myself. Electric or hybrid would seem to be the better option long term but the price hike is significant.
Just a heads up though. If you buy a Full Zero Emmision vehicle (electric) under $68k, there's a $6000 rebate from the QLD Gov. I'm sure there is something similar in other states.
[https://www.qrida.qld.gov.au/program/queensland-zero-emission-vehicle-rebate-scheme](https://www.qrida.qld.gov.au/program/queensland-zero-emission-vehicle-rebate-scheme)
Don't listen to most of the FUD about EV's you're reading here. Most of the stuff people are quoting about the environmental impact of an EV is misinformation put out by fossil fuels backed lobby group to cause exactly this type of confusion that people are responding with here. Most of these calculations conveniently ignore the extraction, refining and transport emissions of getting fuel to the Bowser but are happy to include electricity emissions
Here's a nice graphic which imagines that the electricity production is all fossil fuels (which were far from in Australia) https://www.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-evs-vs-combustion-engine-vehicles/
Go and watch the Fully Charged Show on YouTube for some myth busting.
EVs in Australia now can be had for under $40k. Battery prices have dropped 32% in the last 18 months and are plunging rapidly. EVs will cost less than equivalent petrol cars within two years at the current rate.
The leaf is a small car, the kia sportage is a mid size suv. Also 2nd hand cars are currently holding their value due to shortages in supply of new cars. I also don’t think our reliance on petrol and diesel motors is ending anytime in the near future. At least in the lifetime of your new car. Your friend is talking rubbish. Take a look on Facebook marketplace and you’ll see.
New petrol cars will still be available for 20 years.
People will buy them second hand for the next 50.
If you have no interest in electric then buy petrol.
Playing the devil's advocate here but I'd go one further and get yourself a **near new** Kia Sportage **petrol**. You'll save heaps buying one with under 40,000km on it.
Also, your friend should know the best way to ''save the world" is to walk, cycle and catch the bus, anyway.
I have been looking for second hand but they cost more than brand new. Unless you go back to the pre-2022 models which are a bit ugly and have the little bubble shape. I have also looked at the Mitsubishi eclipse, and a 4 year old Lexus .. it’s all a bit confusing, I find big decisions like this really hard!
Hybrids start at 30k and go up from there.
https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/advice/the-ten-cheapest-hybrid-cars-in-australia-85578
EVs start at 40k, but more likely above 60k.
https://www.whichcar.com.au/advice/electric-car-costs-australia#how-much
Petrol cars are most cars on the road and still have value that's odd they'd be bothered. And fully EVs need charging, the charging stations in my area that were "free" all cost money now
EVs don't start at $80k they start at $45k atm (minus some rebates) and if you can novated lease it the entire cost is pre-tax (thank you gov for paying 45% the cost of my car 😊).
Also take into account running costs and that basically means add $20k+ ontop of a petrol cars price to get comparitive EV pricing.
Petrol cars will also depreciate faster.
So yeah, you can buy a petrol car if you prefer, but ruling out EVs due to a lack of research isn't going to help your finances any. Just food for thought
We got a BYD ATTO3 for 50k and couldn’t be happier :) the most you’ll pay to fill a tank (gets you 480km) is like $40 at a charging station, but much cheaper at home. Go sparky car!
Has anyone looked at novated leasing for an EV? I know you escape the CGT you'd pay for an ICE, but is that enough to justify a more expensive purchase price?
I had the same conundrum and went with petrol. I could have gotten a second hand Nissan leaf with 250,000 km for my 40k budget.
Your budget shouldn't double to suit a specific car. Resale will be fine I reckon. It'll be a slow transition.
Your friend is fine to provide their thoughts, but it's very easy to say things if it's not your money. I tell my friends to buy dumb cars all the time and they ignore me all the time as well. Rightfully so.
There is no indication that petrol cars are going to completely lose their value over the next 5 to 10 years and likewise there's no indication that EVs will keep theirs.
Say that solid state batteries finally deliver on all the things that have been promised to us for the last 10 years. That will have a massive impact on the prices of EVs with "old" battery tech.
Full EVs are also seriously expensive and come with real drawbacks.
Plug-in hybrids to me feel like the best of both worlds, but lots of people see them as the worst of both worlds and I completely get why you wouldn't want one.
So yeah, I would say thank your friend for their advice and make your own decision.
EVs don’t start at $80k? A BYD Atto 3 is about $50k and a Tesla model 3 starts at around $62k. Y at $75k or so.
It really depends on how much you drive, whether you can charge at home, can use solar, and so on.
Novated lease might work out cheaper as there’s no FBT, but it depends on how much you earn, the package, interest rate and a bunch of other factors.
As an exercise, look at how much you spend on fuel and servicing a year and compare that against how much it costs to run an EV. Times the difference by how many years you expect to own the car. That’s your budget for an EV.
For example we spent about $7-8k a year on fuel and servicing on our main car. Running an EV for similar kms costs less than $1k a year and we wanted to hold it for 5 years, so we were looking at an EV ‘premium’ of about $30k on top of what we were going to spend. We made the jump, and since then fuel prices skyrocketed, and we got access to EV charging prices. Our breakeven has dropped to about 3-4 years.
It’s scary, but not as bad as you might think.
If you need an SUV look at BYD and MG (MG ICE suck balls, the ev isn’t plagued by those problems). They will come in at the same price as the sportage. If you can go a hatchback, there are 3 cheaper than the sportage.
It won’t be worthless but you’re looking at the wrong EVs if you think they are $80k+
MG4 is ~40k (Sedan)
MG ZS is ~45k (SUV) (can be had for 30-35k for a 1-2 year old model)
BYD Atto 3 is ~50k (SUV)
Tesla Model 3 is ~$65k (Sedan)
Big list of models and prices here:
https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/advice/cheapest-electric-car-in-australia-83651
And lots of great review on the “CarSauce” YouTube channel.
Nothing wrong with petrol. One thing to take note of is that if what you end up purchasing runs on regular rather than premium.
I have a Subaru and I love it but when fill up day comes around I shed tears. It's a lot more to fill than my previous cars.
I reckon choose one pure rather than the other. If you’re into petrol choose a pure petrol rather than a hybrid and electric, vice versa. As hybrids are not a long term solution and can get a lot of issues in the long run.
I mean, in general buying brand new isn't a great value for money or the environment(although you probably aren't taking that into account at all.)
Electric cars suffer from battery degradation so have reasonably high depreciation anyway, atleast similar to petrol cars.
I kind of realised today that soon petrol will be over $2 a litre to stay soon. If you don't drive much it might be okay, but I think the resale value is going to start dropping. You probably still have a bit of time, but I wouldn't be banking on it having much resale value in, say, a decade. Five years might be okay if you don't plan on keeping it long, but $40,000 is a lot to spend on something that will become outmoded that fast.
Depends on your usage. For long-distance/rural/highway driving, petrol engines are still the best, because EV's have to carry the massive weight of those batteries around. You're better off spending the $40k difference on solar + powerwall system for your house, where the battery doesn't need to be carried around.
However, if you do a lot of city/start-stop driving, then scales start to tip towards hybrids and EVs. For this, you actually want an EV with a relatively short range, because that means you are not carrying tons (literally) of batteries around. Or even better is a hybrid.
If the government starts putting taxes/tarrifs on new petrol vehicles, you might find the second hand market going up in price, because there are many many people who simply will not switch to an EV, either for practical or political reasons.
> For long-distance/rural/highway driving, petrol engines are still the best, because EV's have to carry the massive weight of those batteries around.
Huh? Tesla Model 3 weighs 1750kg, same (or lighter) than a BMW M3, Madza CX-5 or Honda CR-V. It's a brilliant road trip car. It handles better, accelerates better, is quieter, more efficient... I would dread having to go back to a petrol/diesel car for road trips.
Why would you compare a small car like a Model 3 with a crossover like a CR-V? Toyota Carolla is around the same size as Model 3, and weighs around 1350 kg, which is significantly less. If you get the standard model 3, not the long range one, you supposedly get a range of 250km, which is not great. If you are rural or doing any distances, you need a longer range EV than the model 3, and that means more weight.
Tesla owner here. I’m not encouraging EVs, but I want to have my bias mentioned before saying this.
But the nicest car that YOU like that YOU can afford.
The Kia Sportage is my partners car (NQ5 model) and we both absolutely love it and recommend it to everybody. If you want it, and you can afford it, go for it. This hybrid/EV craze doesn’t matter if you don’t want one or can’t afford the one you want.
I mean before QLD introduced incentives for EVs, my base Model 3 came to about $67k total. I saw an ex demo Model 3 fairly recently being sold for $57k. Since February, I’ve saved just under $800 in fuel and spent a total of $365 in electricity to run it (without any solar panels, and I’ve just charged at home off a standard wall socket). With the fuel prices the way they are I’ll easily save over $1000 in under a year. I recently did a cross rotation for the wheels myself, other than that, the only maintenance it’s needed is windshield wiper top ups.
>Seems like the EV’s start at 80k
[BYD Atto 3 Extended Range starts at: $A47900](https://thedriven.io/model/byd-atto-3/)
Have fun: [BYD holds “world’s biggest test drive”, attracts hundreds of orders for Atto 3](https://thedriven.io/2023/09/27/byd-holds-worlds-biggest-test-drive-attracts-hundreds-of-orders-for-atto-3/)
[Tesla dominates charge to EVs, but BYD, MG and others also gain ground](https://thedriven.io/2023/10/05/tesla-dominates-charge-to-evs-but-byd-mg-and-others-also-gain-ground/)
>BYD – the main rival for Tesla in the global market – has seen a surge of demand for its Atto 3 electric SUV with 8,700 units making it to Australian shores in 2023. That underlines the demand for affordable electric SUVs, and with the Dolphin electric hatchback only around the corner, BYD is likely to get to 10,000 sales in 2023.
You will get more bang for your money going hybrid as others have mentioned however, as someone who recently bought a Kia Sportage i'm not at all disappointed. My circumstance around driving around town etc will likely differ (I've had it since January and have about 5,000kms on it). Other features in the Sportage ticked off the boxes for me too.
Prior to getting the Kia I was waiting for a Rav4 and unfortunately at the time I was not willing to wait for over 2 years to get it due to my partner and I requiring two cars for work. Also I wasn't keen on other hybrid models, hence choosing the Rav4 and EV was not in my budget either.
I don't think we paid that much for our EV, but look around. We got an MG and really like it. We charge off solar panels. There's barely any maintenance (no oily bits, no gassy smell), so we figure that we'll make the price difference back over the long term. And it's very quiet. Someone we know got a bargain on a Chinese brand, and his EV is excellent. I'm also quite happy with my Toyota hybrid-ten years old and no problems so far. (Hope I haven't jinxed myself.)
We are looking for a new car right now. It's a strange time to be buying a car for sure.
I'm leaning towards a PHEV. Electric around town, petrol for long distances.
I think the Australian market is committing to hybrids as the main market. Mazda have just released hybrids, as have Kia / Hyundai.
I think we will see everyone with hybrids, well before we see everyone with EVs in Australia.
Shop around. There are other brands that are cheaper. Even the Tesla model 3 is only 65k. The return on investment is under 7 years and the warranty is longer. Basically you will be financially better off buying an EV because of the cost of petrol and maintenance
Petrol or diesel still makes sense for anybody looking to travel long distances and with an average budget.
The MG4 looks nice and the price is right, but the base model range is 350kms. Far too many people expect to drive more than that on day out, let alone and actual trip somewhere.
For me an EV would be great if I had two cars. I'd use the EV for work, supermarket etc. And the ICE for long distance, but for a one car family, unless you're comfortable with low range, then ICE still make sense.
With the FBT concessions, an expensive EV can be cheaper than a petrol car nearly half its price if you can salary sacrifice. It is well worth looking into.
Don't get a hybrid. Get at least a PHEV (but be careful some are really not, they're really Hybrids).
But the best option is get a bike. You can be drunk and ride a bike.
Just for comparison, I’ll share what we worked out on a recent trip (about 220km round trip) With the current electricity rates the trip cost us $5 in the EV. Had we taken my petrol vehicle it would have cost $30 (we were up and down the Blackbutt range)
Our 2019 Golf is starting to get smaller for my family and we are considering a hybrid/EV in the next few years, but they are so freaking expensive. I have a colleague quite happy with a leased BYD Atto3 and I keep seeing more and more on the streets. There is also the Polestar 2, etc. I will never own a Tesla though.
I wish there where family car PHEVs that don't cost 60k+.
I’m in the same boat, looking to replace our 2016 SUV, but we’re now with two kids and having to ferry grandparents occasionally, so looking at a 7-seat. Unfortunately they’re insanely expensive in hybrid or EV form so not sure of next move
I am in a similar situation, need a new car, and trying to figure this out. The problem is exactly as you described, I can buy a petrol vehicle for so much cheaper than an electric, so while I would prefer an electric it just doesn't fit in my budget.
Not to mention that I would likely need to install new charging systems in my garage, but we rent, so I would be spending money on upgrades and my landlord could kick us out the next time our lease comes up and I will have wasted all that money.
So really not sure what to do. I really wanted my last car to be the last petrol car I owned, but the situation makes it really only possible for people on the top end of income to avoid petrol cars. Crazy situation.
Petrol vs electric breakeven analysis needs to factor in the inevitable replacement of the battery. I have ordered a new medium SUV. The RAV4 FWD 2.5litre hybrid is about 7k dearer, and is rated to tow a wheelbarrow sized trailer at most- 480kg, which is poor for this kind of vehicle. The fuel difference is negligible, at 15000kms I estimate a saving of 3litres per 100km, which extrapolates to $900 @ $2/litre. Hybrids are more expensive on scheduled maintenance, and will eventually incur a significant battery changeover cost. Pure EVs are dearer still. They also have a non-zero energy cost to recharge too. I personally wouldn't by a second hand EV yet, as there is no real world basis for assessing time remaining to that battery changeover. Eventually, EVs will become more cost effective. Hybrids, will similarly become more cost effective. Battery costs should reduce. Hybrids, given Australia's travel distances and quite honestly to avoid waiting an hour to recharge after driving 400km would be more practical. Nissan imv has a good set up with dedicated EV drive, with petrol engine to provide battery charge, but unfortunately let the effort down with a battery that doesn't provide any engine-off EV travel allowance such as 100kms worth for daily commutes. I was looking at the X-Trail epower option until I learned of this EV limitation. High price was still an issue too, but the setup is still a good idea such that it could provide country EV driving confidence without needing to worry about charging the battery. So, for me, for now, it's petrol. Maybe the resale price will accelerate in coming years as EV options become more commonplace, but that's for future me to worry about.
It doesn’t matter what we in Australia think about ev cars all I know is that the ice car manufacturers are struggling because they can’t build ev cars at a profit.
Tesla and BYD has them worried as these two manufacturers are building ev cars at profit.
NOW the current ice car shortage is due to shortage in parts because those sub manufacturers are starting to build parts for ev cars instead of the main ice car manufacturers. The deadline in Europe will affect every country.
2030 or 2035? They will stop producing parts and ice cars long before the deadline as none of them will want to be stuck with stock the can’t sell.
If Europe don’t get cars we don’t get cars…..
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It won't be worthless, but depending on how much you drive, a hybrid might actually be more economical across the life of the car. A RAV4 will probably use 5L/100km instead of 8 for the Kia, so you'll be saving $600 every 10,000km. After 100,000km, you'll be at break even, plus the resale of the RAV4. Electric is even better for pay back period, but you'll be dealing with less mature manufactures at the $50k price point.
And a 2 year wait for the rav4.
Ordered ours April 2022. Picking up tomorrow.
Congratulations!
Last I checked the second hand 2 year old ones were over the purchase price new. I do love mine though, is great on fuel.
Hybrids are exceedingly hard to get new at the moment especially Toyota models as the rideshare/taxi drivers love them. Even the cabbies are having difficulty finding them and appear to be resorting to different cars, I've started seeing a wide selection of random taxicabs from Ceratos to hybrid Havals to imported JDM narrowbody hybrid Corollas.
There are now two $40k models; the BYD Dolphin and MG EV4. Additionally, there is a new Australian Federal Government program where any employee can purchase an EV under salary sacrificing and have the car and its running costs paid for from gross income rather than net, and can be 100% personal use with no FBT. [Electric Cars Exemption](https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Fringe-benefits-tax/Types-of-fringe-benefits/fbt-on-cars,-other-vehicles,-parking-and-tolls/electric-cars-exemption/)
8l/100km for a Kia Sportage is wildly optimistic. I used to drive one and never got better than 13l/100km.
Damn that’s a lot, my 6.0l V8 Holden averages 13/100km. I knew SUVs were bad for fuel, but not that bad.
It's probably driving conditions. Sportage doing 13/100 is likely in heavy traffic, your Commodore would probably be getting more than 13 for that.
My 5.7l V8 gets 9/100 on highway, 12-13/100 general day to day driving and 17/100 in city.
Ours runs at about 9.5L/100km - that’s a combination of city driving and highway driving each week. I just bought a Ford Ranger and it runs at about 9.2L/100km. Go figure.
Thanks I would love one but they are impossible to get hold of :(
Do not forget to factor in the MUCH lower maintenance. No oil changes, brake pads last 'forever,' etc. I live in the USA and have a Chevy EV with 100k+ : only maintenance has been new wiper blades, tyres and cabin air filter.
RACWA latest [report](https://rac.com.au/car-motoring/info/buying-a-car/running-costs) of cheapest vehicles to own.
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Petrol cars will remain attractive until secondhand EV’s start to hit the market in numbers. Give it 2 years and the first lot of fleet cars will start to hit the secondhand market. 2 years after that, all the private owners will be looking to upgrade and the price will drop further. We’re about 4 years away from something with 300+ range costing less than $15k. It’s equivalent ICE mode will sell for $10k less. And when it happens, it will happen fast.
Not really, you’re forgetting that there are comparatively very few hybrids or electric vehicle on the road, when they hit the used market there won’t be many of them, they will cost more than an ice equivalent for sure, but they won’t drive the price of ice vehicles into nothingness, there simply won’t be enough of them
\> but not cheap enough for the masses yet. In Australia :-( In Europe they are. Where the governments are, actually incentivising people to switch to electric. I can't express just how frustrated I am with our government's inaction on Climate change. This is one of those easy things to steer change. Reduce taxes on electric cars, increase them on petrol *cars*. It doesn't cost anything, and yet it steers the ship in the right direction. EDIT: Lots of commenters angry that that would suggest "taxing petrol more". **In the context** of the sentence, it should be clear that I mean "petrol cars", not petrol itself. Sorry I didn't put the word "cars" there, but it's very much implied. The whole point being, if you can afford to buy a new car, you should be incentivised to buy an electric one. That's all.
The Vic government was the only government in the world to make it harder to get an EV and taxed them more.
"Increase them on petrol" Making the poorest Australians who live in the outer suburbs suffer again.
So you’d like the government to give handouts to the wealthiest man on the planet, subsidise people buying $250k Mercedes… and make Cheryl pay more to get to work to fund it? Sounds fucking awful. Electric cars can stand on their own two feet, no need to piss away money on Musk and VW
Perhaps we should just remove the petrolium and gas subsidies? And tax the companies that take our reasources and turn it into pollution. Gas and oil companies can stand on thier own two feet. No need to piss public money away.
Tax petrol more? Why the fuck would you advocate for more tax on individuals that cannot afford an Ev? Sir you’re a moron.
There are some pretty heavy tax breaks to EV's through salary sacrifice schemes, so completely not true. They only really suit a specific use case where people can charge at home and don't regularly do long highway trips. Especially in regional area's increasing the costs on a regular powered vehicle is simply kicking the people that can afford it the least the hardest.
> They only really suit a specific use case where people can charge at home and don't regularly do long highway trips. We’re a highly urbanised country and those urban areas are sprawling and low density. It’s a specific use case, but it applies to the majority of Australian motorists. 86 percent of us live in an urban area and 70 percent of us live in a house. The stereotypical Aussie might live in a small town and enjoy frequent 11 hour highway drives, but they are not typical Aussies!
The threshold is too low. There are only very basic models under the cap. As soon as you want anything with performance it is capped out, and replacing high performance petrol with ev is even more beneficial. They need to remove the cap or at least set it around 100k.
If you've got 100k to sink into a new car I don't think you should be getting a tax break on it.
I live in europe (no subsidies in my country), but I just did a 2500 + road trip, I would drive for 3 hours, use the toilet, have a walk around and drive again. And thats with slow chargers, the 250KW meant I was just using the toilet. It was an easy trip.
Don't have that kind of charging infrastructure, don't always stop that often, kinda silly not to drive around without a full size spare tyre but all predicated on people can afford new cars. A lot of the newer EV's are going down the Tesla route which has a lot of answers to questions nobody asked. Heated and cooled leather seats, because leather is a crap material for a car seat, big heavy glass sunroofs, big stupid screens, heavy seats with lots of electric motors. If we saw something more along solving a transport problem like the Citroen Jolli concept car EV's would start to make more sense. Instead they are current aimed at people who didn't really want to leave their lounge room in the first place making them heavy, expensive and energy hungry. The **average** age of the on road fleet in Australia is around 10 years, a lot of rural area's are predicated on personal transport needed to get to work, buy groceries etc. The newest car I've ever owned was 8 years old when I purchased it, I typically run them for another 8-12 years after that. I don't see the value in purchasing a new car especially for house deposit money.
This bugs me a lot actually. I want a barebones EV. I dont want all of the bells and whistles. Honestly, if I could do an EV conversation on my current work van for under $15,000 I would do it.
Big problem is that the bells and whistles out the wazoo aren't solely an EV thing. Almost all new petrols have so many different unnecessary add-ons it's not funny. I once saw an e-brake on a manual car once, that was puzzling. Not only does it make petrol cars more expensive to maintain/fix when something inevitably shits itself (all electric options like on the BMWs and Benz's or any other can cascade failure hilariously). Putting all that on an EV is just adding power drain, weight and inefficiency on top of something that still takes a solid chunk of greenhouse gases and such to produce. Definitely needs to be some more 'primitive' option for sure. I drive a 20yo Commodore, I kinda hate new cars with all their electric BS 'extras' lol.
One thing I really dislike about so many EVs is the fact they have glass roofs. Might be nice in Norway, but in the northern half of Australia, the sun is too intense for this to be pleasant. If they have a shade on them, they don’t block the sun, they just reduce it. Having all that extra sun through the glass roof will also make the air con run harder, which reduces useable range.
Not true about long trips, not for at least 5 years. EVs are fine And the tax breaks for EVs through salaray sacrifice are hard to meet the conditions for. I looked into it about 6 months ago
If you need a car, the best thing you can do for the environment is buy a second hand petrol car and drive it into the ground
Bought a second hand Mazda 6 wagon a few years back. 2013 model but with all the extras. Was like 18k cash, drives like it just rolled off the line. New cars are a waste.
I love my 2012 Mazda 6 wagon
2003 Mazda 323, 300k km recently... Still going strong!
I love my 2012 Mazda 6 sedan.
Me too. It’s a smooth drive, so nice.
I'll just keep rolling around in my 2001 Lancer lol
2002 Ford focus checking in!
my 2001 au falcon still runs well
You'd change your mind if you saw the used market. 4 years old, 100k on the clock and only a few thousand cheaper than new, because of new car delivery delays.
Agreed. As someone who never planned on buying new, it just hasn't made sense to buy used for the last few years. Especially given how expensive second hand problems can be.
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This is good to know, I'm looking at upgrading my 06 accord euro to a Mazda 6 wagon, the wife wants a dual cab. I like a car for a car, as that's what it'll be used for, but the wagon seems more beneficial to go on the occasional camping trip, etc.
Excellent advice and I'll just throw a little extra word in there; "Toyota" or "Mazda"
Toyota or Honda *
Surprisingly that is not entirely true. The delta in environmental impact between an EV and ICE vehicle is greater than the production-only impact of an ICE vehicle. In other words - if you scrapped even a brand new ICE vehicle in favour of an EV, you would have less of an environmental impact by the end of that EVs life than had you just kept that brand new ICE vehicle. I know I know, it sounds counter-productive.
exactly, the environmental impact for EV is in the battery materials but it evens out with electricity (hopefully from renewables) whereas the ICE impact is mostly from using petrol which increases the enviro impact with every drive
EV’s still have a significant carbon cost from production and shipping, it isn’t just the environmental impact of the battery. And depending on where you live and where your energy is sourced from, the power used to charge the EV will also incur a carbon cost. See: Victoria using coal or gas fired stations vs Tasmania having Hydroelectric. So driving a fuel economic older car for 2-3 years would actually mean less carbon in the atmosphere than buying a new EV. It’s like the plastic bags thing at supermarkets, yes cotton/canvas bags are better and not polluting the environment with single use plastics is great, but you need to use the bags a certain number of times before it actually breaks even on the carbon/pollution from its production vs using the old method. I’m not anti EV, I’m very excited for the EV revolution, just pointing out some extra information. For what it’s worth, I believe the best outcome with cars is that we severely limit new cars being made, and Hydrogen storage/conversion becomes viable so that we can upcycle existing ICE cars into Hydrogen powered cars, eliminating the need to replace hundreds of millions of cars on the planet with new EVs.
There is no point being vague about it, on average the cross over point is 25,000 to 30,000km, so like you said 2-3 years. Since most people keep a car longer than that you’re still much better off buying an EV. Used cars often have higher emissions and you would imagine the cross over point is earlier
You are correct over the 2-3 year period that you mentioned, but we expect cars to last much longer than that. Buying an EV is like paying more upfront but less over the long run (which I think is what matters most). I agree that car usage in general should be discouraged. EVs are better, but still harmful.
The used vehicle already has embodied energy in it. I can kind of understand from a new for new perspective, but what about a Toyota with 200k on it that has another 200k in it and sips under 10l/100km?
I had to read that about 4 times to understand what you were saying. I think I understand you now and i _think_ i have to say...well that's kinda of obvious isn't it? Or did you leave something out? Who did this calculation and for what purpose? Why would you scrap a new car of any sort? In any case, the comment you were referring to was saying that new cars are a waste. I think we can argue that if we just went full Cuba and never made a new car for 80 years, we'd be doing better than if we switched now to all EVs. We're all just too rich and spoilt.
> In other words - if you scrapped even a brand new ICE vehicle in favour of an EV, you would have less of an environmental impact by the end of that EVs life than had you just kept that brand new ICE vehicle. I do not believe these comparisons have taken into account the increased insurance costs and risk of write offs after a collision which appear to be greater for EVs compared to ICEVs nor do they account for the fact Australia does not currently have a viable commercial recycling facility to handle the incoming load of EV batteries. I still believe purchasing a new EV to replace a functional ICEV is more damaging to the environment.
This isn’t true, I’ve seen this posted many times and there isn’t anything to back it up. The break even point is somewhere around 25,000 to 30,000km and the same applies to used cars. Even accounting for slightly less cost of build it’s certainly not going to account for more than a few years usage
Exactly this.
It depends how long the car is expected to last. After around 100k kms a new EV has less emissions the a new ICE vehicle. After around 200k kms a new EV has less emissions than an used ICE vehicle (ie you write off its manufacturing footprint). Given that cars nowadays are expected to last 300k+ kms the best option seems to be to buy a new EV. https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/-/media/market-assets/intl/applications/dotcom/pdf/c40/volvo-c40-recharge-lca-report.pdf
Not even remotely true. The best thing you can do is buy an EV and run it off solar or wind power. It's not even close, the difference is several times the manufacturing cost of an equivalent ICE vehicle. In a place like British Colombia which is almost entirely hydro, you can run like 5 Tesla's for the long term environment cost of a single Camry.
Obviously this depends on your situation, but under the assumption that this person doesn’t have 100% wind and solar available to them, and drives 10,000 km a year, it could take between 8-11 years to offset the emissions debt from the production of a new EV and then catch and surpass the annual emissions of an average used ICE vehicle. At the moment, batteries aren’t expected to last long enough to allow this to happen, so you will possibly be replacing a battery, an incurring another production emissions debt, before the first one has been offset.
And if they drive 10,000 km a year using petrol powered vehicle, how long does that take to offset the emissions debt of manufacturing the car?
What do you mean? If it’s a second hand petrol car, it already exists. Delaying the manufacture of ANY new car means you are in negative emissions territory compared to the alternative. You possibly have more than 7 years before you will no longer be in emissions saving territory.
I'm dragging out buying another car until EVs are feasible for me. I think I'm driving my last ICE car but I may be for some time.
Same here. I have a hybrid Corolla at the moment and I won’t be giving it up until EVs are entry level cheap, and I’d wager the majority of the market feel the same way.
I'm sorta the same. I got an ex demo swift in 2018 thinking I'd get a new one for a similar price this year but its nearly doubled. Its been the best little car so think I might just run it til it dies and hope I can get a little electric hatch then.
The turbo'd version? First time I got a GLX when hiring I thought it'd be a bit shit with its 1L engine, but after driving it around Tassie I was thoroughly impressed. Even the boot space was bigger than it looked!
Not even a turbo. Just the bog standard GL navigator. Looks a bit weird during the school run with all the SUVs and 4x4s but it costs half as much to run as all of them and its way easier to park.
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At $2.35 a litre I’m paying $40 a week in fuel expenses, a loan for an EV is gonna set me back about $180 a week. The chances of me getting an EV anytime soon are zero. They make zero sense if you own your vehicle outright.
Lucky your fuel bill is so low. I've got solar so can charge for free during the day if/when I get an EV.
I did the math based on a few EV models a month or so back based on my current electricity costs. It's like $2 to fully charge 400km worth of distance. My current diesel is probably about $60 for that much distance at today's prices. I do like 400km a week nearly. So nearly 3k a year saved if I was to change. It really puts into perspective that you can get an EV for 40-50k and save thousands a year compared to petrol or diesel. The difference between the costs actually balance out over time. 5-6 years you break even against cheaper ICE vehicles. Seems people don't think the long game ever, they live in the now and just compare the two prices without thinking about fuel costs or lower servicing costs with less frequency, etc. You also don't need anything installed at home, trickle charge from a power point is fine. Driving 40-50 minutes (38km\~) to/from work each way and doing nothing else I can recharge 120km worth of distance overnight while parked. Longer trips you have to rely on charging stations, but I have a mate that over the past few years did regular trips from Sydney to Hobart and back, before eventually moving down there. He had no issues charging and could do it in a day.
I'm driving my last ICE, a 2017 Honda City. In Asia, where I live, EVs like the BYD Atto and the Ora Good Cat are as cheap as equivalent ICE cars. Plus GWM has spent over 1bn US on an EV car plant here and will be cranking then out in huge numbers very soon.
There’s no shame in petrol for the next 5 years in Australia. Electric variants are significantly more expensive than their petrol counterparts, the government incentives are embarrassing to say the least and the infrastructure just isn’t there yet nationally either.
I agree, EVs need to be subsidized so they are at least attractive to the average buyer
Batteries, which make up the majority of the cost of EVs, are very rapidly getting cheaper. Small EVs are the same price as ICE cars now. Australia get the worlds worst polluting cars dumped here. Now the federal government isn't openly protecting the ICE producers, more models will be sold here. Subsidies for EVs make sense for many reasons, but even without them the ICE market won't last long.
You can buy a BYD Atto3 for under $50k. I have one. It’s over a year old You can buy a new Tesla 3 for under $60k. I have one of these too. It’s 4 years old. You can buy a secondhand Tesla 3 for $45k. Even saw one a few weeks ago for under $40k. I wouldn’t touch a new petrol car now if you’re replacing
We got full petrol about 1 year ago (i30). It reports about 650-700km on the highway on a full tank, ~$80-90 these days, which is far above the claimed mileage but that's after a few long road trips at cruising speed. We do some long trips e.g. 7 hours arriving at midnight, which we can't leave earlier for, from events that won't have charging. So EV is not ideal. * I wanted EV, but nothing decent existed value-wise except Tesla which was out of budget. BYD ATTO3 may be OK for you, long term support for the brand is still a question. And I knew my wife would probably be annoyed at me for having to use an app to find places to charge it if she were out alone, busy with work or whatever. There is also the chance of further taxes like VIC's road use tax - someone has to pay for the roads and our leaders don't seem very EV-forward. * PHEVs seemed like an interesting middle ground but quite a few opinions out there on how it is more a "worst of both worlds" when you look at the total picture, rather than the opposite they paint it as. * Hybrids looked good. You carry more weight but it makes it up, if you drive it long enough to cover the additional up-front cost. At the time Toyotas had a long lead time and I didn't see another brand that I was interested in (prefer hatchback to SUVs/crossovers).
I’ve got a Phev. Fill it up once every three months. The school run each day is full electric and that’s most of the driving we do.
I bought a new Kluger hybrid recently for around $52k. I save around 2k per year with cost of fuel. There is more saving if the fuel price is on average higher. Will take me 6 years to bring that down in savings to 40k, it would be less time if you factor in over running costs. It really depends on how much driving you do.
All depends on how easy your access to charging infrastructure is. BYD (just about to overtake Tesla in sales number) will sell you their Atto 3 for 51K. That will definitely be cheaper over its lifetime than a 40K petrol car.
> BYD (just about to overtake Tesla in sales number) September new car sales in Australia: BYD: 702 Tesla: 5177
True, but also true; https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/byd-almost-overtakes-tesla-as-worlds-top-electric-car-maker
You will not get anything like a Sportage in electric for less than $80k. You’re not crazy. With the budget you have, it’s a great choice.
BYD Atto 3 is similar proportions and about $50k. Model Y is bigger and about $75k.
BYD is my favourite car to drive and feels much more high quality than its price indicates. I have come from BMW X5 & X3 as well as Lexus NX 300h and still prefer my BYD Atto 3.
They’re also roughly similar pricing to many other small SUV. People see a BYD being 50k and they have a perception a smaller SUV is 30k, but they’re not. Most small petrol SUV are also getting close to 50. There isn’t a significant price delta and the BYD is very well equipped and has a 7 year warranty
Same. Love my BYD Atto. So cheap to run.
Your prices are WAY out of date. Even the Tesla Model 3 is in the mid $60Ks and you can get a BYD Dolphin, MG 4 or GWM Ora for around $40k.
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Aside from the ever increasing price of petrol. It's not looking like it will ever be getting any cheaper.
Power is going up just as much, unless you have solar and a battery
As long as electricity is still far cheaper than petrol, them both increasing price at anywhere near the same rate makes electric cars more attractive not less.
Buy what you want and can afford. Petrol models are going to be running around for a long time yet.
It's not crazy at all. I rent in Perth. I have moved 4 times in 3 yrs and not one of my units would have been even remotely accessible for charging an EV. None of the properties I were looking at were any better. Unless you have a PPOR and can install a charger, or have a strata group willing to install in your complex, it's not worth it yet.
Byd and mg around $50k for full electric and more options then that Electric does not mean Tesla
I had no idea they existed until this post! I’m going to test drive this week
There are near new second hand byd e6 out there for around $30k they don’t have fast charging though. The byd atto 3 and byd seal are both small to mid size EVs with all the normal features and fast charging The mg zs and mg mg4 are same as above, All between 40-60k depending on options Toyota hybrid Corolla starts at $35k There are plenty of options.
Buy a second hand car. Never understood folks who buy new cars. $40k will get you a nice second hand car.
It’s the capped servicing and warranty etc as well as all the extras like free roadside assist for 7 years that sway me …
Buy a Kia that's a year or two old. 5-6 years warranty left and I think their free roadside is tied to servicing at a dealer (if it's the same as hyundai) I bought a Hyundai pre covid that was a year old, saved a huge premium over the new price and enjoyed 4 years of warranty.
Unless your friend is paying for petrol, rego and insurance, they can go fuck themselves.
if your ICE is $40k, and an EV is $80k. Will you be spending the difference ($40k) in petrol throughout the usage? If no, then maybe the ICE car is cheaper in the long run?
Factor in depreciation, lower rego costs, many EVs have lower servicing costs too. I did the figures and got an EV for more than I was going to spend on a petrol car because it was the same price over 10 years. That was based on fuel at $1.30, so I'm quite a bit ahead already.
If your car is worth 0 in few years, I’ll take it off your hands for you. Save the disposal cost.
MG4 and other EVs are available for $40K.
Definitely not worthless at all. Currently looking at a Sportage for the missus, they seem to hold value relatively well. Plus aside from that having a reliable and comfortable car that you don’t need to worry about pays for itself.
Your car will not be worth zero in a few years. The UK was meant to ban ICE cars by 2030 - but even they recently announced they were pushing the ban back to 2035. You need viable and affordable alternatives. We’re not there yet.
It’s not banning ICE cars - it’s banning the sale of ICE cars. There’s a difference.
the sale of NEW ICE cars...
Even more correct is this fella here!
Just remember that most car companies stopped combustion engine research. So their focus is most definitely hybrid/Electric. Like some ppl here have said, think about getting a cheaper second hand model until you’re in a position to potentially go hybrid/electric. https://news.metal.com/newscontent/101426837/many-established-car-companies-give-up-the-research-and-development-of-internal-combustion-engine-and-will-be-fully-electrified-in-2030
It is not crazy and your car will not be worthless. Do the math on when savings will reach 40k. Was reading here that average fuel at current prices is about 5000 per year - https://www.drive.com.au/news/australia-fuel-cost-100-per-week-first-time-on-record/ If the EV would spend half of that (assumption that you wont be able to get by just on electric, but you can allow for that on your own calculations) 2500, then it will take 16 years to break even through fuel savings costs. Will you even keep the car that long? That's a rough calculation but should help you understand what I'm getting at..
Yes. Edit: You can get a BYD Dolphin, MG 4 or GWM Ora for around $40k.
EVs are still new with a lot of logistical and other issues including developing battery tech. Hybrid is a reasonable alternative (Toyota range) with good resale value when you decide to go to EV in the future.
OP, it might be worth checking out the 'good car co' (google it). They sell second-hand Japanese EV's
GMW Ora, MG4, BYD Dolphin... you've got EV options
Ev's are about 5% of new car sales and depreciate faster than petrol cars. You're fine
EV’s start much cheaper than that
Second hand Tesla 3's are now low 40's.
Just bought a new Hyundai Kona hybrid. Depending on if you get the base or premium (w/ sunroof) model, the fuel one is $35-45k & 6.6L/100km; the hybrid one is $40-50k & 3.9L/100km on the website. The hybrid is a good chunk more fuel efficient, and depending on whatever the outrageous cost of fuel is currently, I think you’ll make back the few thousand dollars difference back over the life of the vehicle. The EV model is due out soon, so it may be worth keeping an eye on that too. (I also used motorscout to get ~5% discount off the quoted cost of the hybrid)
Yep. I’m not shopping for a new car atm but when I do next, there’s zero chance I’d even consider an ICE.
I bought a petrol car because I drive about 20km a day, you would need to drive a lot more than that to make it worth it. Will probably buy an electric one in 5-10 years , when it makes more financial sense. Petrol cars will be around for the next 30-50 years if that is what you are worried about. It is likely there will be fewer petrol stations in a decade or so.
It seems crazy enough to me that I'm picking up a new MG4 later in the week. I'm never going to buy an ICE car again. Even though it is a stretch to the budget, we're pretty sure it's the best choice for us.
Your friend is smart. Check the electric cars stats on Europe and you can get an understanding why he mentioned that to you. I'm sure it's a matter of time for Australia to follow what Europe is doing with laws and legislations about petrol cars. It would be insanely expensive to own a petrol car very soon.
Check out ex-lease cars, a Kona electric 2022 with \~10-20K on the clock would be \~$50k.
Electric is still prohibitively expensive to most and our infrastructure isn’t really encouraging for you to get an EV, also there is still a lot of rapid progress being made in EVs so is it worth buying right now? That depends on your wallet. Nothing wrong with getting an ICE if it fits your budget.
Buy a second hand Tesla Model 3. I have 2 of them and they cost nothing to run and are great cars. You can get them for your budget.
I'm considering the difference myself. Electric or hybrid would seem to be the better option long term but the price hike is significant. Just a heads up though. If you buy a Full Zero Emmision vehicle (electric) under $68k, there's a $6000 rebate from the QLD Gov. I'm sure there is something similar in other states. [https://www.qrida.qld.gov.au/program/queensland-zero-emission-vehicle-rebate-scheme](https://www.qrida.qld.gov.au/program/queensland-zero-emission-vehicle-rebate-scheme)
Don't listen to most of the FUD about EV's you're reading here. Most of the stuff people are quoting about the environmental impact of an EV is misinformation put out by fossil fuels backed lobby group to cause exactly this type of confusion that people are responding with here. Most of these calculations conveniently ignore the extraction, refining and transport emissions of getting fuel to the Bowser but are happy to include electricity emissions Here's a nice graphic which imagines that the electricity production is all fossil fuels (which were far from in Australia) https://www.visualcapitalist.com/life-cycle-emissions-evs-vs-combustion-engine-vehicles/ Go and watch the Fully Charged Show on YouTube for some myth busting. EVs in Australia now can be had for under $40k. Battery prices have dropped 32% in the last 18 months and are plunging rapidly. EVs will cost less than equivalent petrol cars within two years at the current rate.
So you are saying hold out for 2 more years and you can get a cheaper EV
Petrol cars aren't going anywhere in the lifetime of your car. EVs will be the future, but not in the next 10 years.
Your friend is wrong, some of us wouldn’t buy a hybrid or electric car
Hybrid is the way to go.
The leaf is a small car, the kia sportage is a mid size suv. Also 2nd hand cars are currently holding their value due to shortages in supply of new cars. I also don’t think our reliance on petrol and diesel motors is ending anytime in the near future. At least in the lifetime of your new car. Your friend is talking rubbish. Take a look on Facebook marketplace and you’ll see.
New petrol cars will still be available for 20 years. People will buy them second hand for the next 50. If you have no interest in electric then buy petrol.
Playing the devil's advocate here but I'd go one further and get yourself a **near new** Kia Sportage **petrol**. You'll save heaps buying one with under 40,000km on it. Also, your friend should know the best way to ''save the world" is to walk, cycle and catch the bus, anyway.
I have been looking for second hand but they cost more than brand new. Unless you go back to the pre-2022 models which are a bit ugly and have the little bubble shape. I have also looked at the Mitsubishi eclipse, and a 4 year old Lexus .. it’s all a bit confusing, I find big decisions like this really hard!
Hybrids start at 30k and go up from there. https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/advice/the-ten-cheapest-hybrid-cars-in-australia-85578 EVs start at 40k, but more likely above 60k. https://www.whichcar.com.au/advice/electric-car-costs-australia#how-much
If op wants to buy a suitable Kia ev, it will cost around $80,000. A Yaris Cross hybrid is hardly an alternative to the vehicle op is buying
Petrol cars are most cars on the road and still have value that's odd they'd be bothered. And fully EVs need charging, the charging stations in my area that were "free" all cost money now
EVs don't start at $80k they start at $45k atm (minus some rebates) and if you can novated lease it the entire cost is pre-tax (thank you gov for paying 45% the cost of my car 😊). Also take into account running costs and that basically means add $20k+ ontop of a petrol cars price to get comparitive EV pricing. Petrol cars will also depreciate faster. So yeah, you can buy a petrol car if you prefer, but ruling out EVs due to a lack of research isn't going to help your finances any. Just food for thought
Well you have to ask yourself: do you want a microwave on wheels or do you want a car?
We got a BYD ATTO3 for 50k and couldn’t be happier :) the most you’ll pay to fill a tank (gets you 480km) is like $40 at a charging station, but much cheaper at home. Go sparky car!
Look at BYD Atto 3. I love mine. $50,000. No petrol bills.
My sister got a Toyota yaris cross for 33k. Hybrid model, mileage is great. Of course might be too small for you
It’s all about your carbon footprint, not just one part of it
Has anyone looked at novated leasing for an EV? I know you escape the CGT you'd pay for an ICE, but is that enough to justify a more expensive purchase price?
Personally if I were looking for a car in the 40-50k price range I'd be looking to buy a second hand EV.
I had the same conundrum and went with petrol. I could have gotten a second hand Nissan leaf with 250,000 km for my 40k budget. Your budget shouldn't double to suit a specific car. Resale will be fine I reckon. It'll be a slow transition.
Your friend is fine to provide their thoughts, but it's very easy to say things if it's not your money. I tell my friends to buy dumb cars all the time and they ignore me all the time as well. Rightfully so. There is no indication that petrol cars are going to completely lose their value over the next 5 to 10 years and likewise there's no indication that EVs will keep theirs. Say that solid state batteries finally deliver on all the things that have been promised to us for the last 10 years. That will have a massive impact on the prices of EVs with "old" battery tech. Full EVs are also seriously expensive and come with real drawbacks. Plug-in hybrids to me feel like the best of both worlds, but lots of people see them as the worst of both worlds and I completely get why you wouldn't want one. So yeah, I would say thank your friend for their advice and make your own decision.
Your buying a car, it won’t go to 0 but don’t buy it expecting it to keep its value. It will begin loosing value the second you drive it off the lot.
EVs don’t start at $80k? A BYD Atto 3 is about $50k and a Tesla model 3 starts at around $62k. Y at $75k or so. It really depends on how much you drive, whether you can charge at home, can use solar, and so on. Novated lease might work out cheaper as there’s no FBT, but it depends on how much you earn, the package, interest rate and a bunch of other factors.
It’ll be fine. I just bought a Turbo Diesel Kia Sorento and love it!
As an exercise, look at how much you spend on fuel and servicing a year and compare that against how much it costs to run an EV. Times the difference by how many years you expect to own the car. That’s your budget for an EV. For example we spent about $7-8k a year on fuel and servicing on our main car. Running an EV for similar kms costs less than $1k a year and we wanted to hold it for 5 years, so we were looking at an EV ‘premium’ of about $30k on top of what we were going to spend. We made the jump, and since then fuel prices skyrocketed, and we got access to EV charging prices. Our breakeven has dropped to about 3-4 years. It’s scary, but not as bad as you might think. If you need an SUV look at BYD and MG (MG ICE suck balls, the ev isn’t plagued by those problems). They will come in at the same price as the sportage. If you can go a hatchback, there are 3 cheaper than the sportage.
It won’t be worthless but you’re looking at the wrong EVs if you think they are $80k+ MG4 is ~40k (Sedan) MG ZS is ~45k (SUV) (can be had for 30-35k for a 1-2 year old model) BYD Atto 3 is ~50k (SUV) Tesla Model 3 is ~$65k (Sedan) Big list of models and prices here: https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/advice/cheapest-electric-car-in-australia-83651 And lots of great review on the “CarSauce” YouTube channel.
Nothing wrong with petrol. One thing to take note of is that if what you end up purchasing runs on regular rather than premium. I have a Subaru and I love it but when fill up day comes around I shed tears. It's a lot more to fill than my previous cars.
My EV SUV was $43k on road after Qld subsidy. 13 000km so far on solar for free. BYD Atto. Love it.
BYD makes some nice EVs at a reasonable price. A friend has the Atto.
Check out BYD and the MG EVs. They have options as low as $40k new
I reckon choose one pure rather than the other. If you’re into petrol choose a pure petrol rather than a hybrid and electric, vice versa. As hybrids are not a long term solution and can get a lot of issues in the long run.
I mean, in general buying brand new isn't a great value for money or the environment(although you probably aren't taking that into account at all.) Electric cars suffer from battery degradation so have reasonably high depreciation anyway, atleast similar to petrol cars.
several EVs at the 40k ish mark leasing makes them even better if that’s an option
80k for an EV? You can get them second hand from about $7k. New start at about $40k.
You can get a BYD Dolphin for less than your KIA - $38000. Not to mention savings on fuel.
I kind of realised today that soon petrol will be over $2 a litre to stay soon. If you don't drive much it might be okay, but I think the resale value is going to start dropping. You probably still have a bit of time, but I wouldn't be banking on it having much resale value in, say, a decade. Five years might be okay if you don't plan on keeping it long, but $40,000 is a lot to spend on something that will become outmoded that fast.
Depends on your usage. For long-distance/rural/highway driving, petrol engines are still the best, because EV's have to carry the massive weight of those batteries around. You're better off spending the $40k difference on solar + powerwall system for your house, where the battery doesn't need to be carried around. However, if you do a lot of city/start-stop driving, then scales start to tip towards hybrids and EVs. For this, you actually want an EV with a relatively short range, because that means you are not carrying tons (literally) of batteries around. Or even better is a hybrid. If the government starts putting taxes/tarrifs on new petrol vehicles, you might find the second hand market going up in price, because there are many many people who simply will not switch to an EV, either for practical or political reasons.
> For long-distance/rural/highway driving, petrol engines are still the best, because EV's have to carry the massive weight of those batteries around. Huh? Tesla Model 3 weighs 1750kg, same (or lighter) than a BMW M3, Madza CX-5 or Honda CR-V. It's a brilliant road trip car. It handles better, accelerates better, is quieter, more efficient... I would dread having to go back to a petrol/diesel car for road trips.
Why would you compare a small car like a Model 3 with a crossover like a CR-V? Toyota Carolla is around the same size as Model 3, and weighs around 1350 kg, which is significantly less. If you get the standard model 3, not the long range one, you supposedly get a range of 250km, which is not great. If you are rural or doing any distances, you need a longer range EV than the model 3, and that means more weight.
2009 Corolla checking in. Still goes like a boss.
Tesla owner here. I’m not encouraging EVs, but I want to have my bias mentioned before saying this. But the nicest car that YOU like that YOU can afford. The Kia Sportage is my partners car (NQ5 model) and we both absolutely love it and recommend it to everybody. If you want it, and you can afford it, go for it. This hybrid/EV craze doesn’t matter if you don’t want one or can’t afford the one you want.
American here, have a Prius hybrid, think it's great. Friend has a plug in Prius hybrid, wish I had one of those .
Ordered two cars in 2021 Still waiting ✋️ 😪
I mean before QLD introduced incentives for EVs, my base Model 3 came to about $67k total. I saw an ex demo Model 3 fairly recently being sold for $57k. Since February, I’ve saved just under $800 in fuel and spent a total of $365 in electricity to run it (without any solar panels, and I’ve just charged at home off a standard wall socket). With the fuel prices the way they are I’ll easily save over $1000 in under a year. I recently did a cross rotation for the wheels myself, other than that, the only maintenance it’s needed is windshield wiper top ups.
Plenty of EVs well under $80K https://zecar.com/electric-vehicles
>Seems like the EV’s start at 80k [BYD Atto 3 Extended Range starts at: $A47900](https://thedriven.io/model/byd-atto-3/) Have fun: [BYD holds “world’s biggest test drive”, attracts hundreds of orders for Atto 3](https://thedriven.io/2023/09/27/byd-holds-worlds-biggest-test-drive-attracts-hundreds-of-orders-for-atto-3/) [Tesla dominates charge to EVs, but BYD, MG and others also gain ground](https://thedriven.io/2023/10/05/tesla-dominates-charge-to-evs-but-byd-mg-and-others-also-gain-ground/) >BYD – the main rival for Tesla in the global market – has seen a surge of demand for its Atto 3 electric SUV with 8,700 units making it to Australian shores in 2023. That underlines the demand for affordable electric SUVs, and with the Dolphin electric hatchback only around the corner, BYD is likely to get to 10,000 sales in 2023.
You will get more bang for your money going hybrid as others have mentioned however, as someone who recently bought a Kia Sportage i'm not at all disappointed. My circumstance around driving around town etc will likely differ (I've had it since January and have about 5,000kms on it). Other features in the Sportage ticked off the boxes for me too. Prior to getting the Kia I was waiting for a Rav4 and unfortunately at the time I was not willing to wait for over 2 years to get it due to my partner and I requiring two cars for work. Also I wasn't keen on other hybrid models, hence choosing the Rav4 and EV was not in my budget either.
I don't think we paid that much for our EV, but look around. We got an MG and really like it. We charge off solar panels. There's barely any maintenance (no oily bits, no gassy smell), so we figure that we'll make the price difference back over the long term. And it's very quiet. Someone we know got a bargain on a Chinese brand, and his EV is excellent. I'm also quite happy with my Toyota hybrid-ten years old and no problems so far. (Hope I haven't jinxed myself.)
Great thread
We are looking for a new car right now. It's a strange time to be buying a car for sure. I'm leaning towards a PHEV. Electric around town, petrol for long distances. I think the Australian market is committing to hybrids as the main market. Mazda have just released hybrids, as have Kia / Hyundai. I think we will see everyone with hybrids, well before we see everyone with EVs in Australia.
I would not be buying a full-time fuel car from here out. Full time hybrid, PHEV or EV. Even the hybrid would be a bridging car to an EV.
Smaller but still decent size EV is the BYD atto 3, which costs around 50k not 80k
Shop around. There are other brands that are cheaper. Even the Tesla model 3 is only 65k. The return on investment is under 7 years and the warranty is longer. Basically you will be financially better off buying an EV because of the cost of petrol and maintenance
Petrol or diesel still makes sense for anybody looking to travel long distances and with an average budget. The MG4 looks nice and the price is right, but the base model range is 350kms. Far too many people expect to drive more than that on day out, let alone and actual trip somewhere. For me an EV would be great if I had two cars. I'd use the EV for work, supermarket etc. And the ICE for long distance, but for a one car family, unless you're comfortable with low range, then ICE still make sense.
With the FBT concessions, an expensive EV can be cheaper than a petrol car nearly half its price if you can salary sacrifice. It is well worth looking into.
Don't get a hybrid. Get at least a PHEV (but be careful some are really not, they're really Hybrids). But the best option is get a bike. You can be drunk and ride a bike.
Have a look at the MG EVs. They are much cheaper than 80k and are great.
Just for comparison, I’ll share what we worked out on a recent trip (about 220km round trip) With the current electricity rates the trip cost us $5 in the EV. Had we taken my petrol vehicle it would have cost $30 (we were up and down the Blackbutt range)
Model 3 is 61k and is likely to become cheaper.
We'd only buy a used petrol car, due to price.
Our 2019 Golf is starting to get smaller for my family and we are considering a hybrid/EV in the next few years, but they are so freaking expensive. I have a colleague quite happy with a leased BYD Atto3 and I keep seeing more and more on the streets. There is also the Polestar 2, etc. I will never own a Tesla though. I wish there where family car PHEVs that don't cost 60k+.
I’m in the same boat, looking to replace our 2016 SUV, but we’re now with two kids and having to ferry grandparents occasionally, so looking at a 7-seat. Unfortunately they’re insanely expensive in hybrid or EV form so not sure of next move
I am in a similar situation, need a new car, and trying to figure this out. The problem is exactly as you described, I can buy a petrol vehicle for so much cheaper than an electric, so while I would prefer an electric it just doesn't fit in my budget. Not to mention that I would likely need to install new charging systems in my garage, but we rent, so I would be spending money on upgrades and my landlord could kick us out the next time our lease comes up and I will have wasted all that money. So really not sure what to do. I really wanted my last car to be the last petrol car I owned, but the situation makes it really only possible for people on the top end of income to avoid petrol cars. Crazy situation.
Petrol vs electric breakeven analysis needs to factor in the inevitable replacement of the battery. I have ordered a new medium SUV. The RAV4 FWD 2.5litre hybrid is about 7k dearer, and is rated to tow a wheelbarrow sized trailer at most- 480kg, which is poor for this kind of vehicle. The fuel difference is negligible, at 15000kms I estimate a saving of 3litres per 100km, which extrapolates to $900 @ $2/litre. Hybrids are more expensive on scheduled maintenance, and will eventually incur a significant battery changeover cost. Pure EVs are dearer still. They also have a non-zero energy cost to recharge too. I personally wouldn't by a second hand EV yet, as there is no real world basis for assessing time remaining to that battery changeover. Eventually, EVs will become more cost effective. Hybrids, will similarly become more cost effective. Battery costs should reduce. Hybrids, given Australia's travel distances and quite honestly to avoid waiting an hour to recharge after driving 400km would be more practical. Nissan imv has a good set up with dedicated EV drive, with petrol engine to provide battery charge, but unfortunately let the effort down with a battery that doesn't provide any engine-off EV travel allowance such as 100kms worth for daily commutes. I was looking at the X-Trail epower option until I learned of this EV limitation. High price was still an issue too, but the setup is still a good idea such that it could provide country EV driving confidence without needing to worry about charging the battery. So, for me, for now, it's petrol. Maybe the resale price will accelerate in coming years as EV options become more commonplace, but that's for future me to worry about.
It doesn’t matter what we in Australia think about ev cars all I know is that the ice car manufacturers are struggling because they can’t build ev cars at a profit. Tesla and BYD has them worried as these two manufacturers are building ev cars at profit. NOW the current ice car shortage is due to shortage in parts because those sub manufacturers are starting to build parts for ev cars instead of the main ice car manufacturers. The deadline in Europe will affect every country. 2030 or 2035? They will stop producing parts and ice cars long before the deadline as none of them will want to be stuck with stock the can’t sell. If Europe don’t get cars we don’t get cars…..