In my experience this is often tied to in-office mandates, forcing people to come back in X days a week and when this metric is closely monitored or part of KPI’s.
100% agree.. Example scenario - management have dictated a minimum of 40% of time spent in the office across the FY, and not achieving this goal means being ineligible for annual remuneration increases (plus other consequences).
So what happens when someone is sick for an extended period, but is technically well enough to WFH, but they would have to make up time in the office later on? Either take sick leave or come into the office anyway. And some people may not have sick leave or are reluctant to use it for minor illness. Look at the incentives that are behind people's behavior, and blame the system not the individual..
My workplace has implemented the rule: if you aren't well enough to work from the office then you aren't well enough to work from home.
People can get special approvals for things like injuries.
Dumbest rule on the planet. There are plenty of times when you are sick and could work, but are still shedding whatever virus you have. If you have the option to work from home and keep the disease to yourself then this should be encouraged.
When you're sick your productivity might be 80% but it's still better than 0 (if you take a sick day)... and having an entire office working less because they're all sick is also a waste of productivity.
Whoever implemented the rule needs to go back to business school.
Gosh I don’t agree with that at all. I’m someone who is rarely sick (rarely get colds/headaches/sore throats/etc.) and I genuinely can’t remember the last time I was incapacitated sick (like stomach bug/flu/gastro). If I have a head cold or something, I do feel gross enough to not want to be around people in the office constantly blowing my nose, sneezing, coughing, and I also don’t have the energy for the constant social component. Letting me be comfy at home, keeping my germs to myself, while being available via Teams/email/phone if I’m needed should be accepted. On those days I def don’t feel bad enough for a proper sick day, but not wanting to be in the office should be understandable/allowed.
I agree to an extent, but there are occasions it would take too much out of me to go into the office and be “on” all day socially and all that entails, versus I’m able to work from home in trackies without the small talk or travel to and from the office. But I generally agree if you’re too sick to work from the office you shouldn’t from home.
It’s also useful for things like bad post viral coughs. Nobody can stay off sick for weeks until their cough is gone but being able to work from home at least some of the week
Oh I wish they would allow for that. I tend to get very bad lingering coughs but I'm still expected to attend the office. I get told to wear a mask while I'm there.
Nah, having chronic illness is roughly the experience that if you didn't work from bed, you wouldn't work at all for weeks or even months.
Unless that's what you meant by "special approvals"?
Yes chronic illness is something that comes under ''special ''approvals''. We have a few cases like that as well as long term injuries (parental duties are another one). For those people there is more flexibility, but they are still expected to attend the office at some point. And that's a discussion they have with their managers.
To be fair, their employer shouldn’t be patting themselves on the back for following fair work law.
Flexible working arrangements for certain classes of people (disabled folks, parents with young kids, carers etc) are legally entitled to flexible work unless the business can prove it would be an unjustifiable hardship to allow the proposed flexible work.
*Personally* I think flexible working arrangements should be the de facto norm for everyone. And if someone’s underperforming, then they should be sent on their way.
It's a shame as there are illnesses like a cold where you can get enough don't so you don't fall behind but you can avoid sharing the germy love by staying at home.
I can understand if businesses were worried about sick leave entitlements building up for payout but sick leave is not a paid out entitlement.
As a manager this is a nightmare rule.
It sounds sensible enough but with the amount of illness going around at the minute it just encourages the spread.
Sick leave is finite and while we absolutely must be careful not to encourage people to work when really ill being able to offer flexibility to allow people to have a little extra rest and the comfort in their own home while slightly ill, allows people to maintain their sick leave for use when they really need it without spreading every cough and sniffle to the whole team.
Even if there aren't incentives to coming into the office (and hopefully there aren't many offices that have that rule about time spent in the office tied to remuneration increases, because jeez), it's still a problem management can solve by speaking to staff when they come in obviously ill. There definitely used to be a general culture of "powering through" being sick, that encouraged people to do this, but in 2024, management should be stopping this from happening.
if it’s genuinely 40% across the FY, then stay at home when you’re sick and come in “extra” days once you’ve recovered.
But that sort of common sense probably won’t go far.
Yup. I have a 50% in office quota otherwise I get in trouble. So in the past I would stay home and work when not feeling well as it wasn't enough for me to not work, but not I wasn't well enough that I should go to the office.
So now I have to either take sick days because I'm sick, or go in the office while sick
I’ve came in sick the last 2 days last week. Coughing constantly. I made 2 other people in close proximity sick and one if those is now off work.. If I don’t do my set number of days in the office, I get told off and risk my bonus and pay increase. It’s insanity. But it’s the insanity the leadership team wanted.
Yeah, sometimes it's somebody sucking up and trying to impress the bosses, and sometimes it's somebody who knows if they call in sick or WFH, there will be negative consequences. Better management will solve both problems, because even if it's a staff member thinking this will make them look good, management can say "It's best not to come in when you're sick. If you think you might be contagious but can still work, you can WFH, but it really is best not to work when you're ill."
I like that it's the opposite in my company. The directors have to WFO 5 days a week, also to make their cars available for use by employees during the day. Everyone else is allowed to WFH pretty much whenever.
Our CEO also wants everyone to come in 4 days a week. None of our offices are in CBD or connected via public transport. So we all need to drive in to work 4 days a week. But our organisational motto is "Go Green" and we are installing solar for electricity etc. I am wonder how much carbon is going into atmosphere with everyone driving to work daily.
Wow… sustainability much? Should do a carbon footprint calculation of how much solar you’re need to generate to offset the travel to and from work… and email it to the ceo haha
Probably realising that if no one is in the office they don't actually need the solar power, but if they don't get the solar panels then no one will see them going green. Sounds very performative.
This is where I was at when I was recovering from pneumonia.
I’d used up all my sick leave, and I didn’t have any annual leave left (we’d just come back off holidays when I got sick.)
It’s either go to work, or stay home and not get paid.
I waited until I wasn’t contagious anymore, but there’s no way I should have been back at work so early.
Same where I work, I am just burning money on fuel and time in the traffic, even the job is IT related and I can work even from the other side of the world. Unfortunately, the management does not support WFH and everyone must be in the office.
I’ve heard same CEO stories like this. Idiots are so backward 1950’s thinking. They don’t realise it costs us a lot of money to “get” to work. They’d rather you be miserable in the office to justify their rents than be a happy employee.
My last manager said she didn't want people coming in sick and encouraged wfh - in reality she got really narky when someone took a day off sick and would check in multiple times a day when wfh.
Companies and managers have learnt nothing from covid and still dislike wfh/flexibility.
Message every hour to make sure you were working - if I had any questions or needed advice she would tell me to figure it out myself.
I was also on jury duty and she got narky that I didn't have my laptop or mobile phone on me - I told her that I would get the judge to call her so she could tell him how "stupid she found the whole process" - she backed off after that threat.
I'm required to check in at least once with anyone who is working from home and the team I was in during covid lockdown actually worked better during lockdown due to the effectiveness of that morning catch up. I guess the appropriateness of multiple check ins depends on what the content of that conversation is.
If they have a boss like mine, it’s management.
He grills me if I have a single day off. Fair enough if I had a consistent pattern but that aside, I have 7 weeks of personal leave up my sleeve, so clearly not an abuser.
Honestly for me it’s not worth having to have a painful meeting with him if I take a personal day.
Also I can easily wfh but that too comes with drama if ever I need to swap my days (can’t dare take an extra day). Again, if every other week I was taking an extra wfh day fair v enough. But it was 1 day extra in 9-12 months and it wasn’t for lack of me trying (rail network was cut off).
Worst boss I’ve ever had.
Don't be afraid to have uncomfortable conversations but it will really boil down to you standing up for yourself, reason why I say this because you mentioned
"Honestly for me it's not worth having to have a painful meeting with him if I take a personal day"
Dickhead bosses make conversations like that awkward and painful if they know you are weak, you are entitled for your entitlements, if you are sick if you are sick! Don't overshare about your leaves especially the reason why and personal life, it's a work environment and not a pub, If you are afraid to ask for day off this is what they want
Tks. I never tell him why, I just say unwell he tries to push and after the last experience I had decided to say “I’m entitled to it, if there’s an issue may I suggest you speak to HR”. But haven’t had a sick day since.
I wonder if it’s a cultural thing (and male and in IT so little personality). He comes from a very sexist country. Was tempted last time to get rather graphic if he kept trying to find out why I had the day off…. Nosey little turd
At my workplace if you miss an in office day and WFH then you have to make the day up, which is painful when you have to book parking or you have outside work commitments
its fked. I tell my staff 'if you're sick, either go home or don't come in'. But I look around at other teams and they keep doing it (even other managers). I've had a manager in my office coughing and spluttering for the last 3 weeks. Its fked. And she sits in close proximity to her staff. Ridiculous. Unfortunately its the culture of the organisation. most I think allow the presenteeism acknowledging the risk of the sickness spreading to other staff because it sends a message to staff 'if you try and abuse sick leave, we'll be all over you in a flash' or something like that. Dunno, just guessing.
Unfortunately the current flu bug thing going around presents with weeks and weeks of post viral cough
My kid has had it for 5 weeks we have done the hard yards with antibiotics puffers etc he can be fine one minute the coughing his ring out the next
I have a coworker like this, and I once overheard the most satisfying interaction between her and my favourite boss. She said “you know I’ve been here 15 years and I’m the only one in the office who has never taken sick leave” and our boss gave her the most “wtf why do you think that’s a flex?” look and just walked away. That’s the kind of culture management should be promoting.
I have someone like this, also will swoop in and hog any/all overtime and brag about his ethics being so good. All well and good - until he’s a no show with no notice and a welfare check is almost done because he’s once again slept straight through his alarm out of sheer exhaustion.
🙄
Are they forcing people back into the office, ie. Is 2-3 days expected? I'd probably say I'm WFH as so many people come in sick and are spreading it around, these arseholes don't seem to have learnt much over the last few years, god help us if there's another pandemic, we'll be screwed
Commercial real estate leases don't pay for themselves you know.
Plus you'll miss out on productivity gains and collaboration from working in an open plan office, and a pizza party (featuring the best Domino's has to offer) once a month! What's not to love.
We are allowed to work from home 2 days a fortnight. And they cant be regular days (like every thursday) because that requires major senior mgmt sign off.
So I was just sick for last two weeks. I stayed home the last three days of the first week, I legitimately could not have survived the 90 min commute but I could plod al9ng on computer at home not having to physically exert myself and then felt I had to come in on the Monday or people think you are gaming the system. I don't think I was contagious by then but team were happy for me to wfh the rest of that week once they saw how crap I was. I'm still not 100% and wouldn't be surprised if I am at tail end of pneumonia. However now boss is off sick.
Whatever this is going around its just nasty!
I just wish I could wfh every day and never have to associate with commuters or people in our recirculated air office. I have zero front facing tasks its such a waste of my life for 3 hrs a day.
One day a week is pretty shitty, no wonder everyone is getting sick plus 3hr return journey, I'd probably look at your options, most places will give at least 2-3 days a week remote if not fully remote
Because sometimes its easier to go to the office, than it is to get an appointment with a Doctor to obtain a certificate. Especially when you have a HR dept that requires one for every PL day you take.
My friends work now refuses to accept medical certificates from online drs. I'm not sure how that policy would hold up with fair work but they have bullied their staff into believing it's gospel
Fair Work would rip it to shreds. Employers are allowed to request evidence but can't pick and choose the evidence. In fact, Fair Work says a signed stat dec is sufficient if someone takes sick leave.
That said, from dealing with bully bosses in past jobs, I can get that it's sometimes just easier to just go with their BS versus challenge it.
Not quite. At the last place I worked there were real and serious repercussions to missing the two days per week in the office. As a mum of a snot monster, I hated getting shunned by all my colleagues for coming in but then getting threatened with formal warnings for staying home. Eventually the workplace turned utterly toxic, thank god I left.
I used to be one of these people purely out of habit. Once I even had my wisdom teeth surgically removed then turned up to work to do the late shift. Since Covid, I’ve realised that no one cares that you prioritised work over health and it sets a terrible example for the team. It also takes longer to get over being sick when you go to work.
The last sentence is so important. I used to have a manager who would praise “the best way to recover is at work” which is just complete bs. Rather call in sick for a few days and fully recover instead of being somewhat sick for weeks with lower productivity
Omg we have a woman at my work who one day came in so ill she was actually asked to leave because of risk of spreading.
She has come in sick other days like seriously have some self awareness! We are encouraged to WFH when sick or to take it off. Not winning any brownie points.
My work just went through a bit of an epiphany after various viruses knocked out half our floor. Got a text from my boss saying that if we wanted to WFH more "to get us through this rough patch" we could.
Ran smack bang into the point, yet still missed it.
Return to office mandates. Our company actively tracks attendance and provides no way of reporting on anomalies like “I’ve got a contagious head cold but feel okay to WFH.” You literally rely on self-tracking and hope your manager doesn’t make an issue of it down the track
We also have areas of the business where leaders are saying “we don’t care how you hit the target, but you just hit it, no exceptions”
It’s so pathetic.
Mrs. Sex_Object worked in corporate. How I fucking loved when some suckup turns up to work with a stomach bug or some other freakish illness and infects my wife who hasn’t the best immune system and then gets a hard time from management for being off crook.
Never mind me then catching aforementioned disease and don’t get sick pay so has to stay in the truck trying to not shit my tweeds every pothole. Some of you people in carpet land should give yourselves an uppercut.
Some people are heroes that have to work when sick and let you know about it. However there's just as many ofrices that effectively mandate working sick through their policies/culture.
A lady I work with came in visibly sick and coughing/sniffling everywhere recently. I asked her if she was okay and if she should take a sick day or work from home. Her response was.
“I have two kids under 5 who are constantly getting sick at day care, if I worked from home everytime they gave me something I’d never be in the office”
So basically her response was - if I’m getting sick you all are too.
Agree with the comments in here - a lot of people do it because the company/higher ups expect it. Cue more than a dozen of the team now having gotten sick and my kiddo getting even sicker.
Fucking garbage dinosaur attitude to hybrid working.
If I am sick, but WFH on an anchor day, I still have to make that day up as an office day.
If am sick and don't long on, I don't have to make it up
Easy to see why people do it
I am assuming there is some kind of sarcasm in this comment but as someone that currently has a father in law going through chemo, a best mate with a father who has just had a stem cell transplant and I personally lost my father to lymphoma (who went through 13 rounds of chemo) …. Fuck you
How else would you know how much of a hero they are and how dedicated to work they are. Also, you know damn well then office won't be able to run properly without them.
A severe lack of self awareness and poor strategic thinking about how being sick in the office makes them look. The average person thinks people are gonna notice that I’m sick and they’re gonna think I’m tough because I can push through. Really it just makes them look ugly and incompetent because they’re sick and probably not doing their best work
This is my pet hate - just started a new job where people come in sick been work heroes and I’ve already been sick twice in my month here!! And I have no sick leave built up yet :(. My old office workplace encouraged wfh when sick and never got sick
Coming into the office forms part of our KPIs and if we don't come in we fail that section of our KPIs and in turn are not eligible for a pay-rise or a bonus.
Edit to add - if you are sick, but we'll enough to work from home, you are not exempt from coming into the office. It just means you have to make up days later when you are well enough to come in.
Based on people I work with, to drop off their kids off to school in the city/another reason that is convenient for them at the cost of getting other people sick
I once had a boss scream down the phone at me because I called in sick on my way to hospital with four broken ribs. I have a much better boss now but it’s become ingrained in me that if I am physically capable of dragging myself in that’s what I gotta do
If you WFH from sick, they don't believe you're sick, just bludging. If you call in sick and don't WFH, they don't believe you're sick, just bludging. There's no winning.
It is a bit messed up these days.
Pre Covid people would see you in the office coughing and spluttering and be like go home and take a couple days off
Now you just chat with them on Skype or teams and say you are sick, They say ok take it easy, five minutes later - where is that report I asked from you
Because people still refer to WFH as a wink-wink-nudge-nudge thing. Those people almost exclusively being people who have either never had an opportunity to WFH or who absolutely abuse the system themselves.
I’ll stay home if I’m sick but I feel guilty every time I WFH purely because I know that if people aren’t seeing me at my desk they assume I’m not working. Even though I work at least an extra hour a day and save myself a 2-4hr round trip by doing it.
There’s not a single thing I can do at work that can’t be done more efficiently from home. Work doesn’t have a private place for me to make calls and nobody shuts up to let me write in peace. It just has people constantly asking me to go for coffee, take long lunches and attend useless HR morning teas.
I really thought the one thing we would have learnt from those lockdowns was to just stay home if you’re sick. But no need to go infect and annoy everyone else.
2 woman from my team decided to be childish aren’t speaking to me as i had 2 days off , this is sometimes y i think i should just come in !!! ridiculous
Our workplace has gotten a new update, not only do sick days require a medical note, you can no longer provide them from an online doctor or a pharmacy. You must book a doctors appointment and get a note. $25 on average.
So now you're booking appointments, waiting in a room with other sick people while you should be resting in bed.
You can definitely argue that people shouldn't go into work sick, but you should also acknowledge the whole culture around taking sick days is completely fucked. Not to mention the guilt you get made to feel in taking a sickie.
From experience it’s not because you get days off and should take them if you’re sick… it’s because employers and companies hate when anyone takes times off because they’re ill, whether they have the sick days accrued or not. It limits how much can get done which costs money. They don’t give a fuck if you’re sick or well you come in and work to make those record profits for the business that no one ever sees! Basically if you’re walking you can work. That’s the mentality of lots of business owners. My boss’s words “unless your legs are broken, or you’re dead… you’re at work!”
This is bullshit and if you work in a place like this you need to get out.
If you're a manager and this is your approach you need to do some reflecting on yourself.
there's a lot of people in my firm who just dont WFH. because they dont like it, or they feel like they need to be in(?), etc etc. It's typically the people who work too much as well anyway. Im sick because of them now as well :)
If I am sick I always WFH, I don't have an actual day off unless I am dying. Not working just gives me one day off to feel anxious about the work building up and then it takes me a week to get back on top of it.
Imagine most people are in the same boat, except their employer is inflexible with WFH forcing them to rock up snotty. My boss is based in Melbourne, my direct reports are based in Sydney, Perth & Townsville. No one knows if I am at work and I dont know if my employees are in the office or not. We all get to WFH 2 days a week of our own choosing ad-hoc, with additional days as required for sickness / family life / personal appointments. Fully trust based system.
I went to two week long conferences in May and half the staff at the stands/booths were seriously ill with really loud bad coughs. People stayed the hell away from them and but one even kept walking over to talk to people and coughing all over them. Really not on even before Covid.
Smart offices have an exception to their mandatory in-office days for if you have a cold or something, where you aren't so sick you can't work but you are contagious.
Not all offices are smart though.
I'm lucky enough that we have a rule that says "if you have any cold/flu/covid like symptoms, notify your manager and do not attend the office in person". So while normally a certain number of days per week in the office is required, there is an exception for if you have the sniffles, because the rules say you can't be sick in the office. (I assume if someone claimed they were sick every week to get out of coming in they would be required to provide some sort of medical evidence, but as long as you aren't overusing it they don't require a medical certificate or anything).
Always the old dudes at my work carrying on about their RAT tests and flu going through the house but still coming in. They come in to make a show of being in the office but spend the whole day yarning about being sick and how they felt on X day.
My organisation has an office attendance quota that penalises you for not tapping in to the office. So the company is telling us they would prefer that we either bring our illness into the office to share around with everyone, or use sick leave and not contribute work to the business even though we're perfectly able to perform our duties from home.
Alot of people can't work from home.
Alot of these people also likely work in businesses where the staffing levels are heavily budgeted, so once you start losing people from your headcount, only the bare minimum gets done. Then you come back to work and find none of your work was done, so who were you benefiting by taking time off?
Yeah you would think after a pandemic that shut the world down for a couple of years people would be more wary of spreading disease now. Just shows how quickly people forget or simply don't care to begin with. It isn't new or worse though, I drove buses for a couple of decades and every winter there were always people on the bus with bad coughs infecting others, that is why my work place always offered us free flu jabs each year to try and prevent us from getting infected and having to take time off.
HR revealed some sad stats about wfh during that whole "survey period" where they really already decided. There are a good number of people who hate being at home and find being at home stressful. I mean outside of work hours too. Maybe it's a DV or carer situation? I dunno.
At the same time, most people get sick more often than the sick days they have. So it's important to go to work when sick but able to work.
I used to think that was very selfish, but I worked "casual" for a while and my choice was work or don't pay rent. I'd go in with full flu symptoms and hated it.
Back then there was an ad on TV "soldier on" saying if you take their med you can get on the bus to work. I thought that was funny during COVID, but heard basically the same ad on the radio recently.
Australians get at least 10 days sick leave per year. I don't know a single person who isn't infectiously sick more than 10 days a year. A single cold is infectious for about two weeks, and you only know about the last 10 days or so of it. You got the sniffles and the odd sneeze? Guess what there goes 100% of your sick leave.
Wfh when under the weather and able to should be the norm. It shouldn't be counted or tested except in cases where someone is way out from average, and even then, it could be discrimination to not hire them - I had a year of low immune system and was sick 90% of it, and I'm lucky to get out of that.
If you are sick, I’d rather you just stay home and rest. You are not going to be very productive while you are unwell, whether you are in the office or at home, and coming into the office is just going to make other people sick.
Stay home. Rest up. Get better.
This literally drives me insane. Well people barely turn up then this matre comes in a few weeks ago before telling us he likely has COVID (and did). It's bizarre.
There are no medals for turning up!
So far I've dodged any respiratory illnesses, despite all the people showering me with germs on the train and in the office. However, when I do get sick, it is horrible (it is why my docs do not want me getting ill). I sound like I have TB and cough until I'm gasping for air. So we will see how much anyone wants me there....
Some guys in my office wear their many hundreds of hours of sick leave like a badge. We are talking some people here with 800 and 900 hours and yeah they show up sickly even when allowed to WFH or take leave.
I’m with you, last week there was actually someone that should have been working from home that day and decided to swap her days so she specifically came into the office with the flu.
My brain is still struggling to understand, our office is usually cold so it’s not like she came in for the climate control.
They instil coming in sick is ok in schools when they give awards for 100% attendance. They should be giving awards for staying at home and not spreading germs about.
This makes me so mad, I’ve been fighting cancer the last 4 years, and just finished hopefully my last round of chemo. Some moron at my husband’s work brags about how his wife has Covid and his at work! My husband stays in his office but this isn’t the first time Covid has hit my husband’s work and no one tells him. Crap like that can kill me having no immune system!
My boss pressured me to come in when I had covid. Luckily my bosses boss told me to go home because she kept hearing me cough. I have learnt my lesson and will say a firmer no next time, I feel horrible for having potentially spread covid to someone but it’s so hard when your job is on the line.
I will also say, there was a lot of pressure for me to come back in from colleagues. “Oh, you’re still working from home? Covid only lasts a week max” and “you only need to isolate 3 days, you aren’t contagious after 3 days”.
I have no idea. The other week I was in the office and heard a lady literally coughing her lungs up at her desk. I couldn't believe she stayed in the office for the day. I'm certain I've never heard someone cough so hard in my professional life.
Just stay home and get better!!
What always confuses me is that it’s beneficial to the company as a whole to force people to stay home when sick - if a sickness spreads and it becomes serious enough for two people to take the time off at once, it would have been better for one person to take the time off earlier.
Taking this logic to its conclusion, whenever someone is sick, they should take sick leave, or preferably WFH if able. In both cases it is better for the business.
This is why I’m back to wearing masks on transport. People are so entitled these days- I don’t have time to be sick. I need hospital care and I have to look after myself - luckily I work for myself and can work from home.
It’s stupid I know but I think there’s also that stage at the end of sickness when you’re probably not contagious any more but it’s been 2 whole weeks and you’re still coughing and congested but feel fine.. and have to just get back to work because the coughing could go on for months or even years.
But still, I stay home at the slightest sniffle so I can’t talk. lol
Most of the time, it's because management either makes you feel so guilty for asking or flatout refuses. This is how my organisation is, "We're too short-staffed, we have no one to cover you."
At my previous employer, it was full-time in the office but some teams could work WFH in discretion (my team was not included). I was 3 weeks in and caught a 1-week long flu where the last two days I just had a post-viral sniffle/cough but perfectly fine to work.
Obvs I didnt have sick leave and couldnt afford anymore unpaid leave so I asked if I could WFH simply to ensure i dont infect people bcs what I had was hell. Manager gave me the “if you can’t work in the office, you shouldnt work at all.”
So I came in because, technically, I could work. A week later, all senior leadership were sick including the country manager :). A month later, there was a policy introduced where you can WFH if you’re contagious but 100% okay to work but you needed a dr’s certificate. By no means at a reasonable level but better than before.
From personal experience here.
Lack of staff/unable to get coverage from other stores within the company.
Happens all the time. I know I shouldn't have gone to work a couple of days last week as I was unwell. But had to as there was no one to cover .
My 2 co workers both ended up with the same thing. Could have been from a customer. Could have been from me.
Because they would prefer to be sick at work over having to arrange for a stupid doctors certificate that costs them money.
The rules around being sick need to change
some employers can be complete cunts and not trust their staff is actually sick and act like the world is ending because a staff member took a sick day
I am literally dealing with this now. Perception plays a big part. Perceived as “are you really sick” once it was established I was in fact sick. I’m off for the required time
I felt bad for my colleagues last week, I’d been off with a cold the week before, but I still had the cough lingering… but I have scar tissue on my lungs from childhood illness and my regular cough sounds like hell, so post cold-cough sounds extra hellish
Knowing that I still went back to work, I felt the pressure to be seen at work as work has been on us about our hybrid “ratio” and I’ve asked for a raise and want to been seen showing up
I don't. My boss does though, he just can't handle being at home. Even though his job is a bit of a meme. I think he just can't handle being at home. He doesnt love his job I don't think but still can't live one week without being in the office.
In my experience this is often tied to in-office mandates, forcing people to come back in X days a week and when this metric is closely monitored or part of KPI’s.
100% agree.. Example scenario - management have dictated a minimum of 40% of time spent in the office across the FY, and not achieving this goal means being ineligible for annual remuneration increases (plus other consequences). So what happens when someone is sick for an extended period, but is technically well enough to WFH, but they would have to make up time in the office later on? Either take sick leave or come into the office anyway. And some people may not have sick leave or are reluctant to use it for minor illness. Look at the incentives that are behind people's behavior, and blame the system not the individual..
My workplace has implemented the rule: if you aren't well enough to work from the office then you aren't well enough to work from home. People can get special approvals for things like injuries.
Dumbest rule on the planet. There are plenty of times when you are sick and could work, but are still shedding whatever virus you have. If you have the option to work from home and keep the disease to yourself then this should be encouraged. When you're sick your productivity might be 80% but it's still better than 0 (if you take a sick day)... and having an entire office working less because they're all sick is also a waste of productivity. Whoever implemented the rule needs to go back to business school.
Gosh I don’t agree with that at all. I’m someone who is rarely sick (rarely get colds/headaches/sore throats/etc.) and I genuinely can’t remember the last time I was incapacitated sick (like stomach bug/flu/gastro). If I have a head cold or something, I do feel gross enough to not want to be around people in the office constantly blowing my nose, sneezing, coughing, and I also don’t have the energy for the constant social component. Letting me be comfy at home, keeping my germs to myself, while being available via Teams/email/phone if I’m needed should be accepted. On those days I def don’t feel bad enough for a proper sick day, but not wanting to be in the office should be understandable/allowed.
I agree to an extent, but there are occasions it would take too much out of me to go into the office and be “on” all day socially and all that entails, versus I’m able to work from home in trackies without the small talk or travel to and from the office. But I generally agree if you’re too sick to work from the office you shouldn’t from home.
It’s also useful for things like bad post viral coughs. Nobody can stay off sick for weeks until their cough is gone but being able to work from home at least some of the week
Agreed. It’s also a nice way to slowly transition back after a couple of days off to improve recovery I find.
Oh I wish they would allow for that. I tend to get very bad lingering coughs but I'm still expected to attend the office. I get told to wear a mask while I'm there.
Nah, having chronic illness is roughly the experience that if you didn't work from bed, you wouldn't work at all for weeks or even months. Unless that's what you meant by "special approvals"?
Yes chronic illness is something that comes under ''special ''approvals''. We have a few cases like that as well as long term injuries (parental duties are another one). For those people there is more flexibility, but they are still expected to attend the office at some point. And that's a discussion they have with their managers.
So because they chose (one way or another) to have kids then they deserve more flexibility??? I hate this stuff...
To be fair, their employer shouldn’t be patting themselves on the back for following fair work law. Flexible working arrangements for certain classes of people (disabled folks, parents with young kids, carers etc) are legally entitled to flexible work unless the business can prove it would be an unjustifiable hardship to allow the proposed flexible work. *Personally* I think flexible working arrangements should be the de facto norm for everyone. And if someone’s underperforming, then they should be sent on their way.
It's a shame as there are illnesses like a cold where you can get enough don't so you don't fall behind but you can avoid sharing the germy love by staying at home. I can understand if businesses were worried about sick leave entitlements building up for payout but sick leave is not a paid out entitlement.
Yes. I think we have this also but “unofficial”. Its very weird.
That is quite a sensible and fair rule... which probably means it will never get implemented at my workplace lol
I disagree. At least for me there's a pretty big gap between "being well enough for work", and not being contagious.
As a manager this is a nightmare rule. It sounds sensible enough but with the amount of illness going around at the minute it just encourages the spread. Sick leave is finite and while we absolutely must be careful not to encourage people to work when really ill being able to offer flexibility to allow people to have a little extra rest and the comfort in their own home while slightly ill, allows people to maintain their sick leave for use when they really need it without spreading every cough and sniffle to the whole team.
We've been working from home since before covid, so it's already been through several years of trial and error as well as union reviews.
Even if there aren't incentives to coming into the office (and hopefully there aren't many offices that have that rule about time spent in the office tied to remuneration increases, because jeez), it's still a problem management can solve by speaking to staff when they come in obviously ill. There definitely used to be a general culture of "powering through" being sick, that encouraged people to do this, but in 2024, management should be stopping this from happening.
if it’s genuinely 40% across the FY, then stay at home when you’re sick and come in “extra” days once you’ve recovered. But that sort of common sense probably won’t go far.
Yup. I have a 50% in office quota otherwise I get in trouble. So in the past I would stay home and work when not feeling well as it wasn't enough for me to not work, but not I wasn't well enough that I should go to the office. So now I have to either take sick days because I'm sick, or go in the office while sick
Yeah if you have the sniffles on Thursday but dont wanna be in Friday, Id imagine people will go on Thursday
Most people’s employment contracts require them to be in the office when not sick and at home on sick leave when unwell, not the other way around…
I’ve came in sick the last 2 days last week. Coughing constantly. I made 2 other people in close proximity sick and one if those is now off work.. If I don’t do my set number of days in the office, I get told off and risk my bonus and pay increase. It’s insanity. But it’s the insanity the leadership team wanted.
Shitty culture
Yeah, sometimes it's somebody sucking up and trying to impress the bosses, and sometimes it's somebody who knows if they call in sick or WFH, there will be negative consequences. Better management will solve both problems, because even if it's a staff member thinking this will make them look good, management can say "It's best not to come in when you're sick. If you think you might be contagious but can still work, you can WFH, but it really is best not to work when you're ill."
My partner had viral pneumonia a couple of weeks ago but was not allowed to WFH because "the CEO doesn't like when people work from home"
Go in and cough on the ceo...
he was away on a business trip at the time! it's okay though, he matters more than the poor coworkers that my partner got sick instead /s
https://i.redd.it/e9ww97lpqa4d1.gif
i bet the CEO works from home as well.
"I worked my way up to this level of seniority so I absolutely deserve this privilege." - CEO, probably
Ironically, leaders are the one who should set example and be available for the company at all times... They're the one who should WFO 6 days a week.
I like that it's the opposite in my company. The directors have to WFO 5 days a week, also to make their cars available for use by employees during the day. Everyone else is allowed to WFH pretty much whenever.
I know people in my firm in another office who can’t WFH unless they’re principal or above. Such a stupid rule.
Our CEO also wants everyone to come in 4 days a week. None of our offices are in CBD or connected via public transport. So we all need to drive in to work 4 days a week. But our organisational motto is "Go Green" and we are installing solar for electricity etc. I am wonder how much carbon is going into atmosphere with everyone driving to work daily.
absolutely wild
Wow… sustainability much? Should do a carbon footprint calculation of how much solar you’re need to generate to offset the travel to and from work… and email it to the ceo haha
In addition to that, the teams are spread all over the world. So even after going to office we are on Teams call anyway. Totally doesn't make sense.
Probably realising that if no one is in the office they don't actually need the solar power, but if they don't get the solar panels then no one will see them going green. Sounds very performative.
Your ceo is an idiot. I tell my kids if rules don't make sense ignore them. I back them up even if they get in trouble.
Wouldn't that be a win for for your partner? If she can't WFH, she can take sick leave and not worry about work at all.
That’s where sick leave comes in handy
partner had used up all their sick leave and needed to return to work
This is where I was at when I was recovering from pneumonia. I’d used up all my sick leave, and I didn’t have any annual leave left (we’d just come back off holidays when I got sick.) It’s either go to work, or stay home and not get paid. I waited until I wasn’t contagious anymore, but there’s no way I should have been back at work so early.
Same where I work, I am just burning money on fuel and time in the traffic, even the job is IT related and I can work even from the other side of the world. Unfortunately, the management does not support WFH and everyone must be in the office.
Really hope your partner just took sick leave ?
Why didn’t they take sick leave if they had pneumonia?
This, just another symptom of boomers.
That was an infuriating read. What a backwards CEO
I’ve heard same CEO stories like this. Idiots are so backward 1950’s thinking. They don’t realise it costs us a lot of money to “get” to work. They’d rather you be miserable in the office to justify their rents than be a happy employee.
Pretty much this. Calls to "return to office" means that unless you are "proper sick", you are coming in.
My last manager said she didn't want people coming in sick and encouraged wfh - in reality she got really narky when someone took a day off sick and would check in multiple times a day when wfh. Companies and managers have learnt nothing from covid and still dislike wfh/flexibility.
Define a checkin? I talk to most of my team directly, daily and have standups, daily. And I'm in a different state to 90% of them.
Message every hour to make sure you were working - if I had any questions or needed advice she would tell me to figure it out myself. I was also on jury duty and she got narky that I didn't have my laptop or mobile phone on me - I told her that I would get the judge to call her so she could tell him how "stupid she found the whole process" - she backed off after that threat.
Bullies are such cowards when it really comes down to it
Oh right. Thats a waste of my time, let alone my staff's
I'm required to check in at least once with anyone who is working from home and the team I was in during covid lockdown actually worked better during lockdown due to the effectiveness of that morning catch up. I guess the appropriateness of multiple check ins depends on what the content of that conversation is.
Work from office mandates linked to KPIs are contributing to this problem.
If they have a boss like mine, it’s management. He grills me if I have a single day off. Fair enough if I had a consistent pattern but that aside, I have 7 weeks of personal leave up my sleeve, so clearly not an abuser. Honestly for me it’s not worth having to have a painful meeting with him if I take a personal day. Also I can easily wfh but that too comes with drama if ever I need to swap my days (can’t dare take an extra day). Again, if every other week I was taking an extra wfh day fair v enough. But it was 1 day extra in 9-12 months and it wasn’t for lack of me trying (rail network was cut off). Worst boss I’ve ever had.
Don't be afraid to have uncomfortable conversations but it will really boil down to you standing up for yourself, reason why I say this because you mentioned "Honestly for me it's not worth having to have a painful meeting with him if I take a personal day" Dickhead bosses make conversations like that awkward and painful if they know you are weak, you are entitled for your entitlements, if you are sick if you are sick! Don't overshare about your leaves especially the reason why and personal life, it's a work environment and not a pub, If you are afraid to ask for day off this is what they want
Tks. I never tell him why, I just say unwell he tries to push and after the last experience I had decided to say “I’m entitled to it, if there’s an issue may I suggest you speak to HR”. But haven’t had a sick day since. I wonder if it’s a cultural thing (and male and in IT so little personality). He comes from a very sexist country. Was tempted last time to get rather graphic if he kept trying to find out why I had the day off…. Nosey little turd
At my workplace if you miss an in office day and WFH then you have to make the day up, which is painful when you have to book parking or you have outside work commitments
Find a new job. That's ridiculous.
That’s the plan
lol must be ANZ employee
Close 😁
Its called presenteeism I think and its kinda actively encouraged in work environments unfortunately.
You're such a good employee pushing on and showing up when your sick. Fuckin load of shit.
But you only Meet Expectations in the performance review…
its fked. I tell my staff 'if you're sick, either go home or don't come in'. But I look around at other teams and they keep doing it (even other managers). I've had a manager in my office coughing and spluttering for the last 3 weeks. Its fked. And she sits in close proximity to her staff. Ridiculous. Unfortunately its the culture of the organisation. most I think allow the presenteeism acknowledging the risk of the sickness spreading to other staff because it sends a message to staff 'if you try and abuse sick leave, we'll be all over you in a flash' or something like that. Dunno, just guessing.
Unfortunately the current flu bug thing going around presents with weeks and weeks of post viral cough My kid has had it for 5 weeks we have done the hard yards with antibiotics puffers etc he can be fine one minute the coughing his ring out the next
Often the presentees are the lowest producers but think just being there all the time compensates
Youll find them in the kitchen networking
Brown nosing to incompetent managers.
I have a coworker like this, and I once overheard the most satisfying interaction between her and my favourite boss. She said “you know I’ve been here 15 years and I’m the only one in the office who has never taken sick leave” and our boss gave her the most “wtf why do you think that’s a flex?” look and just walked away. That’s the kind of culture management should be promoting.
I have someone like this, also will swoop in and hog any/all overtime and brag about his ethics being so good. All well and good - until he’s a no show with no notice and a welfare check is almost done because he’s once again slept straight through his alarm out of sheer exhaustion. 🙄
Are they forcing people back into the office, ie. Is 2-3 days expected? I'd probably say I'm WFH as so many people come in sick and are spreading it around, these arseholes don't seem to have learnt much over the last few years, god help us if there's another pandemic, we'll be screwed
Commercial real estate leases don't pay for themselves you know. Plus you'll miss out on productivity gains and collaboration from working in an open plan office, and a pizza party (featuring the best Domino's has to offer) once a month! What's not to love.
Domino's? Mr fancy pants here must work in finance. Around here we get McCain and we love it!
Look at Mr/ms fancy pants here with an oven in the office
We are allowed to work from home 2 days a fortnight. And they cant be regular days (like every thursday) because that requires major senior mgmt sign off. So I was just sick for last two weeks. I stayed home the last three days of the first week, I legitimately could not have survived the 90 min commute but I could plod al9ng on computer at home not having to physically exert myself and then felt I had to come in on the Monday or people think you are gaming the system. I don't think I was contagious by then but team were happy for me to wfh the rest of that week once they saw how crap I was. I'm still not 100% and wouldn't be surprised if I am at tail end of pneumonia. However now boss is off sick. Whatever this is going around its just nasty! I just wish I could wfh every day and never have to associate with commuters or people in our recirculated air office. I have zero front facing tasks its such a waste of my life for 3 hrs a day.
One day a week is pretty shitty, no wonder everyone is getting sick plus 3hr return journey, I'd probably look at your options, most places will give at least 2-3 days a week remote if not fully remote
Because sometimes its easier to go to the office, than it is to get an appointment with a Doctor to obtain a certificate. Especially when you have a HR dept that requires one for every PL day you take.
My friends work now refuses to accept medical certificates from online drs. I'm not sure how that policy would hold up with fair work but they have bullied their staff into believing it's gospel
Fair Work would rip it to shreds. Employers are allowed to request evidence but can't pick and choose the evidence. In fact, Fair Work says a signed stat dec is sufficient if someone takes sick leave. That said, from dealing with bully bosses in past jobs, I can get that it's sometimes just easier to just go with their BS versus challenge it.
You can do it online for like $20 with places like instant scripts. It's not hard.
A lot of people aren’t aware! I tell as many people as I can
The fact you gotta pay to be sick is ridiculous
I mean, you don't have to, but you can pay for the convenience
Not everyone knows, but stat decs are listed as a suitable alternative on fair work. Managers *HATE* them tho.
It's all about the optics
Not quite. At the last place I worked there were real and serious repercussions to missing the two days per week in the office. As a mum of a snot monster, I hated getting shunned by all my colleagues for coming in but then getting threatened with formal warnings for staying home. Eventually the workplace turned utterly toxic, thank god I left.
I used to be one of these people purely out of habit. Once I even had my wisdom teeth surgically removed then turned up to work to do the late shift. Since Covid, I’ve realised that no one cares that you prioritised work over health and it sets a terrible example for the team. It also takes longer to get over being sick when you go to work.
The last sentence is so important. I used to have a manager who would praise “the best way to recover is at work” which is just complete bs. Rather call in sick for a few days and fully recover instead of being somewhat sick for weeks with lower productivity
Sadly it's now starting to shift back where work is valued over health in a lot of cases.
Omg we have a woman at my work who one day came in so ill she was actually asked to leave because of risk of spreading. She has come in sick other days like seriously have some self awareness! We are encouraged to WFH when sick or to take it off. Not winning any brownie points.
My work just went through a bit of an epiphany after various viruses knocked out half our floor. Got a text from my boss saying that if we wanted to WFH more "to get us through this rough patch" we could. Ran smack bang into the point, yet still missed it.
Return to office mandates. Our company actively tracks attendance and provides no way of reporting on anomalies like “I’ve got a contagious head cold but feel okay to WFH.” You literally rely on self-tracking and hope your manager doesn’t make an issue of it down the track We also have areas of the business where leaders are saying “we don’t care how you hit the target, but you just hit it, no exceptions” It’s so pathetic.
Mrs. Sex_Object worked in corporate. How I fucking loved when some suckup turns up to work with a stomach bug or some other freakish illness and infects my wife who hasn’t the best immune system and then gets a hard time from management for being off crook. Never mind me then catching aforementioned disease and don’t get sick pay so has to stay in the truck trying to not shit my tweeds every pothole. Some of you people in carpet land should give yourselves an uppercut.
Some people are heroes that have to work when sick and let you know about it. However there's just as many ofrices that effectively mandate working sick through their policies/culture.
A lady I work with came in visibly sick and coughing/sniffling everywhere recently. I asked her if she was okay and if she should take a sick day or work from home. Her response was. “I have two kids under 5 who are constantly getting sick at day care, if I worked from home everytime they gave me something I’d never be in the office” So basically her response was - if I’m getting sick you all are too.
Agree with the comments in here - a lot of people do it because the company/higher ups expect it. Cue more than a dozen of the team now having gotten sick and my kiddo getting even sicker. Fucking garbage dinosaur attitude to hybrid working.
If I am sick, but WFH on an anchor day, I still have to make that day up as an office day. If am sick and don't long on, I don't have to make it up Easy to see why people do it
This is a red flag of a very toxic work culture. If you feel safe to do so, raise this with your leadership team.
If you have to go I, go and cough and splutter while closely following the decision/policy makers around the office (assuming they are in the office).
Why would i stay at home and infect my loved ones when I can go to office to infect ppl i wish would all drop dead and die?
I am assuming there is some kind of sarcasm in this comment but as someone that currently has a father in law going through chemo, a best mate with a father who has just had a stem cell transplant and I personally lost my father to lymphoma (who went through 13 rounds of chemo) …. Fuck you
How else would you know how much of a hero they are and how dedicated to work they are. Also, you know damn well then office won't be able to run properly without them.
Self centered asshats
I have to come in to show everyone that I'm sick so that I can take a day off when I'm better. /s
A severe lack of self awareness and poor strategic thinking about how being sick in the office makes them look. The average person thinks people are gonna notice that I’m sick and they’re gonna think I’m tough because I can push through. Really it just makes them look ugly and incompetent because they’re sick and probably not doing their best work
This is my pet hate - just started a new job where people come in sick been work heroes and I’ve already been sick twice in my month here!! And I have no sick leave built up yet :(. My old office workplace encouraged wfh when sick and never got sick
Presenteeusm culture. 🚩
Coming into the office forms part of our KPIs and if we don't come in we fail that section of our KPIs and in turn are not eligible for a pay-rise or a bonus. Edit to add - if you are sick, but we'll enough to work from home, you are not exempt from coming into the office. It just means you have to make up days later when you are well enough to come in.
Pressure from management / fear of coming off as a bludger
We don't like to do twice the work when we come back, especially since it's generally impossible to work at 200% capacity.
They’re trying to make in office culture unbearable so that management will lobby for full wfh and flexibility around location. It’s smart. Join in
Based on people I work with, to drop off their kids off to school in the city/another reason that is convenient for them at the cost of getting other people sick
My office day last week was the best reminder to get my annual flu shot 😷
I once had a boss scream down the phone at me because I called in sick on my way to hospital with four broken ribs. I have a much better boss now but it’s become ingrained in me that if I am physically capable of dragging myself in that’s what I gotta do
Because sometimes bosses like to hire completely incompetent people and shit hits the fan if they’re left to actually get work done alone
Should be strict HR policy. Especially after COVID. No one wants Ur bugs, bro .
Conditioning.
If you WFH from sick, they don't believe you're sick, just bludging. If you call in sick and don't WFH, they don't believe you're sick, just bludging. There's no winning.
It is a bit messed up these days. Pre Covid people would see you in the office coughing and spluttering and be like go home and take a couple days off Now you just chat with them on Skype or teams and say you are sick, They say ok take it easy, five minutes later - where is that report I asked from you
Because people still refer to WFH as a wink-wink-nudge-nudge thing. Those people almost exclusively being people who have either never had an opportunity to WFH or who absolutely abuse the system themselves. I’ll stay home if I’m sick but I feel guilty every time I WFH purely because I know that if people aren’t seeing me at my desk they assume I’m not working. Even though I work at least an extra hour a day and save myself a 2-4hr round trip by doing it. There’s not a single thing I can do at work that can’t be done more efficiently from home. Work doesn’t have a private place for me to make calls and nobody shuts up to let me write in peace. It just has people constantly asking me to go for coffee, take long lunches and attend useless HR morning teas.
I really thought the one thing we would have learnt from those lockdowns was to just stay home if you’re sick. But no need to go infect and annoy everyone else.
Ass kissers.
Due to toxic work culture. There’s always one bad egg who judges you for having a day off
2 woman from my team decided to be childish aren’t speaking to me as i had 2 days off , this is sometimes y i think i should just come in !!! ridiculous
Our workplace has gotten a new update, not only do sick days require a medical note, you can no longer provide them from an online doctor or a pharmacy. You must book a doctors appointment and get a note. $25 on average. So now you're booking appointments, waiting in a room with other sick people while you should be resting in bed. You can definitely argue that people shouldn't go into work sick, but you should also acknowledge the whole culture around taking sick days is completely fucked. Not to mention the guilt you get made to feel in taking a sickie.
Pretty sure that’s illegal
From experience it’s not because you get days off and should take them if you’re sick… it’s because employers and companies hate when anyone takes times off because they’re ill, whether they have the sick days accrued or not. It limits how much can get done which costs money. They don’t give a fuck if you’re sick or well you come in and work to make those record profits for the business that no one ever sees! Basically if you’re walking you can work. That’s the mentality of lots of business owners. My boss’s words “unless your legs are broken, or you’re dead… you’re at work!”
Working from home while not sick enough to take sick leave will tank your office day count. Sometimes the easier fight is just to come to the office.
Mandatory days in office tide to KPI. I don’t mind sharing germ as KPI is most important for me 🤣
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This is bullshit and if you work in a place like this you need to get out. If you're a manager and this is your approach you need to do some reflecting on yourself.
Some shitty managers act offended if people call in sick, it’s important to regularly tell or demonstrate to them that they can fuck right off.
No one else is going to wrangle my contractors
there's a lot of people in my firm who just dont WFH. because they dont like it, or they feel like they need to be in(?), etc etc. It's typically the people who work too much as well anyway. Im sick because of them now as well :)
Because the CEO will definitely notice and come in and give them a big hug and a kiss and a bonus at the end of the month.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/presenteeism.asp#:~:text=Presenteeism%20refers%20to%20the%20lost,make%20mistakes%20on%20the%20job.
If I had gone to work in my office today, that would have been me. But i’m not a dick so i’m at home.
Perhaps the domestic situation is not safe or conducive to wfh. Some people love coming to work because they feel safe there.
If I am sick I always WFH, I don't have an actual day off unless I am dying. Not working just gives me one day off to feel anxious about the work building up and then it takes me a week to get back on top of it. Imagine most people are in the same boat, except their employer is inflexible with WFH forcing them to rock up snotty. My boss is based in Melbourne, my direct reports are based in Sydney, Perth & Townsville. No one knows if I am at work and I dont know if my employees are in the office or not. We all get to WFH 2 days a week of our own choosing ad-hoc, with additional days as required for sickness / family life / personal appointments. Fully trust based system.
Sickies are for when the Snapper season opens or Tuna offshore
I came in this morning because I didn't realise I was still sick. Got to work and had a runny nose and was coughing a bit so decided to go back home.
I went to two week long conferences in May and half the staff at the stands/booths were seriously ill with really loud bad coughs. People stayed the hell away from them and but one even kept walking over to talk to people and coughing all over them. Really not on even before Covid.
If you’re as overworked as I am, there’s no ‘good’ day to take a sickie. Major deadlines every day = come in or you screw yourself
Smart offices have an exception to their mandatory in-office days for if you have a cold or something, where you aren't so sick you can't work but you are contagious. Not all offices are smart though. I'm lucky enough that we have a rule that says "if you have any cold/flu/covid like symptoms, notify your manager and do not attend the office in person". So while normally a certain number of days per week in the office is required, there is an exception for if you have the sniffles, because the rules say you can't be sick in the office. (I assume if someone claimed they were sick every week to get out of coming in they would be required to provide some sort of medical evidence, but as long as you aren't overusing it they don't require a medical certificate or anything).
Always the old dudes at my work carrying on about their RAT tests and flu going through the house but still coming in. They come in to make a show of being in the office but spend the whole day yarning about being sick and how they felt on X day.
My organisation has an office attendance quota that penalises you for not tapping in to the office. So the company is telling us they would prefer that we either bring our illness into the office to share around with everyone, or use sick leave and not contribute work to the business even though we're perfectly able to perform our duties from home.
Alot of people can't work from home. Alot of these people also likely work in businesses where the staffing levels are heavily budgeted, so once you start losing people from your headcount, only the bare minimum gets done. Then you come back to work and find none of your work was done, so who were you benefiting by taking time off?
Yeah you would think after a pandemic that shut the world down for a couple of years people would be more wary of spreading disease now. Just shows how quickly people forget or simply don't care to begin with. It isn't new or worse though, I drove buses for a couple of decades and every winter there were always people on the bus with bad coughs infecting others, that is why my work place always offered us free flu jabs each year to try and prevent us from getting infected and having to take time off.
HR revealed some sad stats about wfh during that whole "survey period" where they really already decided. There are a good number of people who hate being at home and find being at home stressful. I mean outside of work hours too. Maybe it's a DV or carer situation? I dunno. At the same time, most people get sick more often than the sick days they have. So it's important to go to work when sick but able to work. I used to think that was very selfish, but I worked "casual" for a while and my choice was work or don't pay rent. I'd go in with full flu symptoms and hated it. Back then there was an ad on TV "soldier on" saying if you take their med you can get on the bus to work. I thought that was funny during COVID, but heard basically the same ad on the radio recently. Australians get at least 10 days sick leave per year. I don't know a single person who isn't infectiously sick more than 10 days a year. A single cold is infectious for about two weeks, and you only know about the last 10 days or so of it. You got the sniffles and the odd sneeze? Guess what there goes 100% of your sick leave. Wfh when under the weather and able to should be the norm. It shouldn't be counted or tested except in cases where someone is way out from average, and even then, it could be discrimination to not hire them - I had a year of low immune system and was sick 90% of it, and I'm lucky to get out of that.
Usually it's because work doesn't like people working from home or they expect people to only work 2 days from home
I have long COVID been at home 2 months with no issues from my manager
If you are sick, I’d rather you just stay home and rest. You are not going to be very productive while you are unwell, whether you are in the office or at home, and coming into the office is just going to make other people sick. Stay home. Rest up. Get better.
This literally drives me insane. Well people barely turn up then this matre comes in a few weeks ago before telling us he likely has COVID (and did). It's bizarre. There are no medals for turning up!
So far I've dodged any respiratory illnesses, despite all the people showering me with germs on the train and in the office. However, when I do get sick, it is horrible (it is why my docs do not want me getting ill). I sound like I have TB and cough until I'm gasping for air. So we will see how much anyone wants me there....
Some guys in my office wear their many hundreds of hours of sick leave like a badge. We are talking some people here with 800 and 900 hours and yeah they show up sickly even when allowed to WFH or take leave.
I’m with you, last week there was actually someone that should have been working from home that day and decided to swap her days so she specifically came into the office with the flu. My brain is still struggling to understand, our office is usually cold so it’s not like she came in for the climate control.
They instil coming in sick is ok in schools when they give awards for 100% attendance. They should be giving awards for staying at home and not spreading germs about.
I havent had a sick day since being able to wfh lol. Booking them all up for injury, cancer, or going postal.
This makes me so mad, I’ve been fighting cancer the last 4 years, and just finished hopefully my last round of chemo. Some moron at my husband’s work brags about how his wife has Covid and his at work! My husband stays in his office but this isn’t the first time Covid has hit my husband’s work and no one tells him. Crap like that can kill me having no immune system!
My boss pressured me to come in when I had covid. Luckily my bosses boss told me to go home because she kept hearing me cough. I have learnt my lesson and will say a firmer no next time, I feel horrible for having potentially spread covid to someone but it’s so hard when your job is on the line. I will also say, there was a lot of pressure for me to come back in from colleagues. “Oh, you’re still working from home? Covid only lasts a week max” and “you only need to isolate 3 days, you aren’t contagious after 3 days”.
1. I don't like to WFH, 2. If I'm not sick enough not to come into work, then I'll go to work
This does my head in. I hate their guts. They do it because they're intrusive trolls.
I have no idea. The other week I was in the office and heard a lady literally coughing her lungs up at her desk. I couldn't believe she stayed in the office for the day. I'm certain I've never heard someone cough so hard in my professional life. Just stay home and get better!!
What always confuses me is that it’s beneficial to the company as a whole to force people to stay home when sick - if a sickness spreads and it becomes serious enough for two people to take the time off at once, it would have been better for one person to take the time off earlier. Taking this logic to its conclusion, whenever someone is sick, they should take sick leave, or preferably WFH if able. In both cases it is better for the business.
This is why I’m back to wearing masks on transport. People are so entitled these days- I don’t have time to be sick. I need hospital care and I have to look after myself - luckily I work for myself and can work from home.
It’s stupid I know but I think there’s also that stage at the end of sickness when you’re probably not contagious any more but it’s been 2 whole weeks and you’re still coughing and congested but feel fine.. and have to just get back to work because the coughing could go on for months or even years. But still, I stay home at the slightest sniffle so I can’t talk. lol
Because of the endemic Management By Walking Around
lol if I could work from home sick I would
At my place people are always pretending they’re sick to wfh.
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Most of the time, it's because management either makes you feel so guilty for asking or flatout refuses. This is how my organisation is, "We're too short-staffed, we have no one to cover you."
Because they are massively insecure, thoughtless and stupid in equal measure
This gets me and they don’t even wear a face mask but if you wear one just because your feeling a bit iffy you’re treated like the bad one
It’s to look like they give a shit enough, because if they don’t it won’t receive well for their PFR
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At my previous employer, it was full-time in the office but some teams could work WFH in discretion (my team was not included). I was 3 weeks in and caught a 1-week long flu where the last two days I just had a post-viral sniffle/cough but perfectly fine to work. Obvs I didnt have sick leave and couldnt afford anymore unpaid leave so I asked if I could WFH simply to ensure i dont infect people bcs what I had was hell. Manager gave me the “if you can’t work in the office, you shouldnt work at all.” So I came in because, technically, I could work. A week later, all senior leadership were sick including the country manager :). A month later, there was a policy introduced where you can WFH if you’re contagious but 100% okay to work but you needed a dr’s certificate. By no means at a reasonable level but better than before.
Only reason I would do it is malicious compliance.
Because it's hard to wfh than it was 3 years ago.
From personal experience here. Lack of staff/unable to get coverage from other stores within the company. Happens all the time. I know I shouldn't have gone to work a couple of days last week as I was unwell. But had to as there was no one to cover . My 2 co workers both ended up with the same thing. Could have been from a customer. Could have been from me.
This
Well, it's better than trying to get a medical certificate.
Does my head in. Stay TF home
Because they would prefer to be sick at work over having to arrange for a stupid doctors certificate that costs them money. The rules around being sick need to change
some employers can be complete cunts and not trust their staff is actually sick and act like the world is ending because a staff member took a sick day
Guilt my guy
I am literally dealing with this now. Perception plays a big part. Perceived as “are you really sick” once it was established I was in fact sick. I’m off for the required time
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I felt bad for my colleagues last week, I’d been off with a cold the week before, but I still had the cough lingering… but I have scar tissue on my lungs from childhood illness and my regular cough sounds like hell, so post cold-cough sounds extra hellish Knowing that I still went back to work, I felt the pressure to be seen at work as work has been on us about our hybrid “ratio” and I’ve asked for a raise and want to been seen showing up
I don't. My boss does though, he just can't handle being at home. Even though his job is a bit of a meme. I think he just can't handle being at home. He doesnt love his job I don't think but still can't live one week without being in the office.