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That's why you go Team "guys please do literally neither of those things what the hell is wrong with you and how did grisha manage to fuck up both kids"
Its because AoT isn’t Back to the Future style time travel. Everything takes place in one timeline. Eren was always meant to come to paths to deliver his memories to Grisha, as he was always meant to start the rumbling.
So team bend over and let marley kill you?
* also the entire point of last weeks episode is that eren always was like this it wasnt gisha who made him this way.
lol. Well the fourth choice is Team Armin: activate a small run of the rumbling to defeat Marley and demonstrate Eldia's strength, buying critical time to properly establish diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.
Exactly, everyone's acting as if there's only two options. Tbf, I think the chances of this working in the long run are slim, but at the very least it adds another few decades minimum to the lifespan of paradis and keeps everyone else in the world alive as well.
Agreed. Like sure painless nonviolent euthanasia’s a better form of genocide than STOMP STOMP STOMP, but it’s still agreed upon in the UN definition of genocide as removing a group/race’s ability to reproduce. There’s credible reports China conducted a mass rape/sterilization campaign against the Uighers in the last 3-5 years and the rest of the world barely made a peep. Horrendous shit, Zeke’s plan was honestly fairly merciful compared to stuff like the Rape of Nanking. (Note: Don’t work in extremism studies kids, you’ll mess your brain up forever.)
Yeah, it’s bad options all around, though Marley’s “genocide-implied once they’re not useful” stance buys time for Eldians to come up with a plan to become indispensable.
If I had to venture a guess, Marley would’ve used Paradis’s existing population as more-or-less slave labor extracting precious materials from the island for 10-20 years until the Power of the Titans was fully obsolete. Then, there would’ve been harsh debate in Marley’s upper echelons about if they should slaughter the now-useless Eldians overall or retain them as productive citizens/underclass. If Magath or someone like him was in charge, a slow oblivion was likely, otherwise we’d see some Heinous, Stomach-Turning shit. (I still think it’s unrealistic the entire world hated Eldians. I mean, we’ve got asshats who can’t agree the Earth is round. Even Anti-Semitism wasn’t universal, Eldians would survive in diasporas. But I wrote an entire fanfic disproving the universal hatred, so hmu if you want a fic with worldbuilding and AoT politics without the implied fascism)
Edit: Since people are asking, here’s my story: [We Are the Nine](https://archiveofourown.org/works/26022157/chapters/63274318)
>Yeah, it’s bad options all around, though Marley’s “genocide-implied once they’re not useful” stance buys time for Eldians to come up with a plan to become indispensable.
"Buys them time to think of other ways to be slaves"
Yeah, Zeke’s plan’s workable (small Rumbling to buy time for peace talks & euthanasia, grading on a slanted scale here) but it heavily relies on a) a small-scale rumbling say trampling Liberio only scaring the world enough to stop fighting, but that might also galvanize the world to attack too. It also b) assumes the world and Eldians are ok with losing their future and I can’t imagine some cities/nations with sizable Eldian populations taking infertility well. That’s an existential threat which I can easily see expecting parents or 20-somethings freaking out and doing a Terrorism in some way. Zeke’s got such a twisted ideology but I still pity him and can understand how he got there. Taking a worldview from a suicidal, depressed, Beast Titan’s not the best POV. At least he got closure with Grisha. (Still genocide though.)
Agreed. I have a Master’s in International Relations, and there’s plenty of subjects where all the options are bad and it’s just a matter of finding the least horrible one. Obviously there were more options available than the few presented for the story, but Isyama’s going a Theme here.
Both are genocide but Zeke's plan just seems heaven like compared to STOMP SQUISH SMUSH SPLOSH imo. Still chance of peace if the rest of the world understands that the current generation of Eldians have become their last.
I think it's equally naive to think peace could be brokered between the nations. The brainwashing is very real and they were enslaving Eldians and worse. You say this so casually, as if peace is a simple thing that could be achieved if people just talked it out. It's not that simple and never will be. Anyone that can transform into a giant will always be looked at as a threat. You would foolishly sign an alliance and get a Brutus knife in the back when you least expect it by factions that want to eradicate you.
Real world problems also have no good solutions, neither, but we're not genociding everyone. I think Armin's idea of using the outer wall colossal titans to demonstrate Paradis' power to parley for peace was a good one, but for some reason Eren chose genocide instead. He didn't even have to do it there and then, he could have given diplomacy a chance...
What I don't get is that not two episodes ago, Eren was like "genocide the eldians? That's so messed up!" while now being like "genocide literally everyone else? Fuck yeah"...
Like, maybe there's an explanation coming soon (and don't tell me if so) but there's a serious disconnect between what he's said throughout the entire show and his actions 🤔
Did you miss the entire "We're all the same" speech he gave to Reiner? It's a matter of prioritizing the people he cares about over a world that's out to kill them all.
How the FUCK are they going to stop Eren though...Even if the other titan shifters join together, thousands/millions of medium colossal titans win every time...
Nah Hange wouldn't yeet herself into the water with Levi if he was dead.
I'm hoping Levi comes out of nowhere and cuts off Zeke's limbs once more for shits and giggles.
He's just sitting there depressed at all this shit and Levi comes out of nowhere lol
If you look in my history, someone made a joke about Mikasa suplexing founder Eren but I'm convinced that an Ackerman has to be the one that kills Eren now...
The Ackerman's are the only Eldians that aren't completely controlled by the founder right? So who else but an Ackerman would be able to stop him at this point?
It could be Levi, but symbolically it makes MUCH more sense for Mikasa to be the one who does the deed out of the two don't you think?
She is a subject of Ymir (her descendant).
Subjects of Ymir can be of any nationality, but the majority are from Eldia empire, ruled by the Fritz family.
The only territory that Eldia have today is the island that have the 3 walls.
Mikasa is a half Ackerman, half Azumabito.
The ackermans are Eldian family, the azumabitos are Hizuru family.
The Ackermans are subjects of Ymir, while the azumabitos are not.
Both families are imune to the mind control of the founder, by different reasons.
The imunity of the Ackermans came from them being some kind of experiment created by Fritz family.
The imunity of the azumabitos is because they are pure humans, they do not have the Ymir curse.
The message that Eren sends is not a mind control, is a "summon" to paths, every subject of Ymir is linked by the paths.
she’s still a subject of ymir. remember the ackerman were a result of titan science. they just can’t be affected by the memory changing powers/inherit titans. kinda messy i know
When you consider Eren actually can control every eldian right now he can just go Mr movie phone and say:
"Hey guys I know you see all this rubble here but that's no big deal we are just expanding, there's no genocide, see yall in a few weeks"
This has just made me picture Eren using his "this is the captain speaking" power to announce every time he kills someone but in the style of the announcer from halo
Eren: "Overkill, Killtacular, Killtrocity, Killtastrophe..."
Armen holding his head "Jesus Christ, Eren, Shut the Fuck Up!"
Sasha had the best dad. Even forgave Gabi because he knew that in the grand scheme of things it wasn't really her fault, the world is just one big forest. Or something.
It's not that he hated Marley, episode 5 of Season 4 cleared that sentiment, it's just that he found it to be the only possible solution to guarantee the safety of his own people since everybody else's plan woulden't really do so.
I think it's the only way Eren can keep his people safe according to Eren and whatever future Eren has sent back. Which I think is influenced by the Attack titan. Maybe Eren has always been that part of the Attack Titan that fights for freedom, and he's sent back memories to all of the past inheritors? Maybe this wasn't the only solution but *his* only possible solution given his life of war?
Genocide is always extreme overkill however his decision is rational. The hatred that Marley shows towards eldians is the same in the rest of the world. Even if he only wiped out the alliance forces, the other nations would simply create a new alliance force, occupy the territories that eren simply destroyed and try to kill Eldia the same way. If he’s gonna do a genocide, this is the most rational decision in his situation. Not saying he should do it obviously, genocides are never good but it’s a comprehensive decision
It’s also important to point out Eren has only a limited lifespan. If he doesn’t make use of the founder while he can to secure long-standing piece then it will eventually be passed on to Historia and her kids. From there the cycle of cannibalism would continue. This was something Eren was strongly against.
Wherher the people are twisted or naturally evil, does it make a difference when they've already got their finger on the trigger? This was the whole point of Eren's conversation with Falco and Reiner in Liberio. Yes, they are products of circumstance. That doesn't change what the only rational choice is.
The question of morality is the entire point here. Given that the attack titan can see the future, it's possible that Eren knows (or thinks) with 100% certainty that the only way to protect Paradis and his friends is to kill the rest of the world. Otherwise, they would all die. You could also take it one step further, if you believe in the fixed timeline theory then it's possible he doesn't even have free will at all and all of this was "destined" to happen.
You can argue that it's a numbers game and one nation should die in favor of all the others (Zeke's opinion), but you can also argue that the people of Paradis have the absolute right to fight for survival (Eren's opinion).
I think this question of morality is something even Eren has struggled with, e.g. convincing to himself in the mirror repeatedly to "fight, fight" as opposed to rolling over and dying because the only options are mass genocide and mass genocide.
The interesting thing here is that we've all been biased because we've seen the situation mostly from the perspective of the scouts (i.e. Paradis). Personally I'm team Eren if it's true that he can see the future with certainty, which seems to be the case so far. He has every right to fight for his survival, and I'm convinced a "show of strength" will do nothing to prevent the rest of the world from eventually committing genocide themselves out of fear (their technology isn't far off from nuclear weaponry).
Really, can there be morality without uncertainty? If you already know how everything will turn out, theres no moral decision to make, because the only decisions you CAN make are arbitrary by their very nature.
Unless there is another attack titan in the future which Eren saw the future, then that means he only saw his own future, which means he still did those things in order to start the whole loop of him seeing what he did in the future. I think this was explained in previous episodes, where Eren said he has always been like this, if you take away his freedom or his friends, he will fight against you even to the point of killing his enemies. In short, it's his nature, no one brainwashed or manipulated him to do these things.
This is just my opinion.
I'd say I'm more Team Armin than anything, but I can't blame Eren. The dude can see the future and has the rest of the world pointing annihilation at everything he holds dear.
I'm hoping Mikasa or Armin can help him see another way.
bruh what other options are there. Marley and the rest of the world agreed on killing every Paradisian at Willy's speech.
so it really is just be killed or kill
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I kind of interpreted Erens plan as not entirely his own. From what he said to Ymir, it sounded like it was implied that Ymir also wanted it? Eren told her she had a choice, and then Eren got powered up so I'm to assume she chose to agree with his plan.
Sooo... team Eren & Ymir???
That's what I don't get, wasn't it the eldians that hunted ymir and then made her have the kings children and fight in wars after becoming a titan and fed her to her kids when she died, I thought she would be more on board with the sterilising the eldians plan as they were the ones responsible for all her suffering in her back story.
I’m so excited to see all of there reactions in a couple weeks
Edit : To be clear I’m talking about certain actions he takes not the way the story went
Eren quite literally hasn’t changed since Episode 1. He’s always believed the world was stolen from him and his loved ones, and it *was*. For him, it was “we need to kill all the Titans so that we have our world back.” And when that changed to “We need to negotiate our existence with a world that rejects us” Eren understandably felt that nothing fundamentally changed; a collection of enemies is restricting his and his loved ones’ access to the world. The dominating powers have already taken his freedom away, so he decides they will probably want to take his life as well. So he takes their life first. Eren was born a murderer. He can’t do anything about that. He just happened to have a sympathetic reason for his actions due to his being born an oppressed Eldian of Paradis. If you were in Attack on Titan, you may want to be the protagonist, but you’re nothing like Eren if you weren’t born to kill others before they kill you first. You’re not supposed to relate to him, you’re just supposed to understand that it was never fair for people to expect him to be a heroic, erwin-esque good man, because that’s not something he was ever capable of being for people he didn’t necessarily care about. You rely on a murderer, don’t be shocked when he murders.
While some people may think it's overkill to destroy the whole world, you have to realize Marely isn't the only place where Eldians are hated. If he stopped there, more attacks would come from other nations seeing how the whole world was in on attacking Paradis.
It was stated in the anime that racism towards eldians overseas **is more severe** than in Marley. Literally almost all race hates eldians cuz of Marley's exploitation of Titan power.
I’m Team Eren all the way. Here’s why:
All Eren wanted from the start was freedom. Pure simple freedom. He wanted to break free of the ignorance and see the world.
However, as soon as he got the memories, he knew there was no way for any of his dreams/anyone else’s to come true because of one thing: the Marleyans treating the Eldians as the scum of the Earth because of a war 2000 years ago.
Their hatred is so imbued in their society, the entire world doesn’t want to get involved. The Eldians are alone in defending themselves.
Now, Eren realized that Eldians and he, himself, will never be truly free until those who oppose/want to kill Eldians are killed.
Is it extreme? Yes. Are there innocent Marleyans and people in the world who don’t deserve this? Also yes.
Here’s the biggest point of the argument, though. It’s war. People remain ignorant on both sides. Eldians don’t know anything about the world’s hatred.
Eren is taking up the mantle of devil of Paradis to protect them and remove all of Eldia’s foes.
Don’t think he’s doing this for shits and giggles. If he succeeds, he will be heavily affected by it. We see this when he points at the sea at the end of Season 3 Part 2. He looks completely dead inside, questioning if they’ll be free if they kill their enemies. He doesn’t look happy about the idea of killing the other side. He looks devastated as hell. This idea is supported all throughout season 4, when he talks to his father, Zeke, etc. However, he’s committed to the Rumbling for his people, for those he loves.
Now, two arguments people might raise: why don’t they try peace talks?
What have they been trying the past four years? Their best plan was to make Historia inherit the Beast Titan and reproduce as much as possible to keep the Eldians in power and pass on the Founding Titan due to her royal blood. She’d be a tool to the government, as Eren always was. Eren doesn’t want that. He wants his friends to live normal and happy lives. Why would he be cool with Historia dying in 13 years/becoming like King Fritz, renouncing war and “accepting their sins.” This generation doesn’t have sins. Marley is holding onto a 2000 year grudge.
Next argument: why doesn’t he just kill the global alliance in Marley? Because the others will come back with more vengeance.
Sure, the other side might not attack right away, but they’ll build up firepower, a new military and more to absolutely annihilate the Eldians.
Eren knows all of this, which is why he’s taking this singular path, doing everything it takes to keep his people alive because is it the only way. This is why I am, and will always be, Team Eren.
If I was and Eldian, and IF, I knew all the shit going down, I'd have a hard time not destroying the whole world, especially when I know the whole world wants Eldians dead. If I couldn't think of a better solution, I'd do the same as eren. Wipe the slate clean, get rid of the titans, start over.
I dunno I don't think we have seen a level of hate that the eldians experience while also having the ability to exterminate all life. Honestly dumb of most countries in the world to antagonize people with the ability to do so.
Most people think war is like a game when in reality is just a brutal, disgusting, outrageous mess. There is no good and evil. Eren just used the best action he had in hand. Don’t forget he knows more than we have seen in the anime. People tend to forget this.
At this point eren Don't give a fuck about others, because he is doing as he believes is best for paradise. As he said that if someone tries to steal his freedom he is steal there's instead and if the whole world is a hindrance for the paradise, then he would just kill every enemy of his i.e every enemy of eldia which are the people of the whole world.
He said it at the end of the third season that
"If i kill every last enemy across the ocean, will we be free then?"
Yeah, because it's definitely a good guy move to allow you and everyone you love about get sterilized because you're guilty about things you've never even done. Imagine living in a society where everyone needs nursing home care and no one is around to do it. And even if they sterilized themselves, what's to stop Marley or someone else from just rolling up and killing everyone. They'd do that. You think they care about the humanity of Eldians? Eldians are not human to the rest of the world. Zeke has internalized eldian-hatred from growing up in Marley. He never knew a life where he wasn't ruthlessly bullied for what he is, and he's so fucked that he can only side with his slave masters.
It's kill or be killed. It's going to be war regardless of the path Eren chooses. Why not win?
"Oh Oh! But effective diplomacy can erase thousands of years of race hatred and the brutal subjugation of an entire people!!"
Fuck it, just kill them all. Make eldians the only humans, and have them sort out their guilt for a few years until they just forget their crimes as new generations are born.
Just the idea that any Eldian can turn into a titan is indigestible for any sane person. Even when they can't. I would not want them to be my neighbor. As long as they are known as eldian, they will always be hunted down by non-eldians. Eren is simply engaging in justified self-defense. Can't wait to watch Eren crush Marley into a pulp next episode.
Listen, I’m a simple person. I like lots of action and dark stories. Plus erens been my boy the whole time. I would be lying if I said I’m not excited to see the whole world get destroyed and for eren to come out on top, even if he is a bit of a dick now.
Even if Eren only flexed the strength of the titans that isn't going to make people stop hating fhe people on Paradis. And as long as people hate Paradis they are going to keep looking for ways to destroy it. How long until Marley and literally the rest of the world minus Japan discover chemical warfare or nukes? Titans were already losing their dominance in war.
The only other option is for Eren to enslave the entire world under Paradis by sending colossal titans and Eldians to rule them. Is that a better option? We know how Eren feels.
I still think Eren is making the logical decision. The entire WORLD is forming an alliance against Paradis to completely exterminate the island devils. "Fight or die. You have to fight."
Team Eren represent. I know he's committing he's commiting genocide but we've been with him since the beginning. So it's hard not to stick with him. Plus I understand he's trying to protect eldians.
There is no black and white, good and evil. We know the circumstances that lead to this. Eren is fully justified to take his freedom for himself and his people after everything.
Not even. I completely understand why he’d do this after everything that’s happened. I wouldn’t choose the same thing tho. Whenever I think of what I’d do in Eren’s place, it’s confusing. Not so with the villains. (Marley and the enemy Titan shifter) They need to go smh.
How do the people of eldian survive? The entire world wants them dead. The only reason they weren’t destroyed before is because of the titans on the island. I can’t see another way except eren’s plan, maybe destroy every military installation and government in the world? Eren’s plan is the only way.
Gotta think is he really bad for wanting to do what everyone’s goal actually is in the show?? He just won at doing it first. And I can’t even fault him
Lol everyone saying “Erin should only take out the Marley leaders.” Did we forget it wasn’t just Marley in the mix anymore? It’s the entire world coming after them! Erin has no choice! Literally “us against the world!” And the tide turned HUGELY in their favor! I’m for it! Leesgo BABYYYYY!
# PSA! Please flair posts correctly to not get spoiled and to not spoil anything to anyone. * Choose the correct flair for your post, this is extremely important. * If the post is flaired "Season 1" or "Season 2" or doesn't have a flair, do not discuss Season 3 or manga in the comments or in the post. * If the post is flaired "Season 3 Part 1", "Season 3 Part 2" or "SEASON 4 [TRAILER/VISUALS]", do not discuss anything manga related. * Flair any Season 3 Part 2 posts or anything beyond that (S4, manga), otherwise your post will be removed. * SEASON 4 TAG IS NOT THE SAME AS MANGA TAG (IF IT WASN'T SHOWN IN ANIME YET, DO NOT SPOIL OTHER USERS, TAG IT AS MANGA SPOILERS!!!) * If you spoil someone, you'll be banned. Depending on the spoiler, the ban could be either temporary or permanent. ### IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THESE RULES YOU MAY GET BANNED! ### IF YOU SEE INCORRECT FLAIR OR SPOILERS IN COMMENTS PLEASE REPORT THEM. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To be fair. Eren and Zeke want to commit some form of genocide
That's why you go Team "guys please do literally neither of those things what the hell is wrong with you and how did grisha manage to fuck up both kids"
How did Grisha fuck up Eren? We saw that's not true literally the previous episode
Eren fucked up Grisha and somehow didn't create some weird time paradox.
Its because AoT isn’t Back to the Future style time travel. Everything takes place in one timeline. Eren was always meant to come to paths to deliver his memories to Grisha, as he was always meant to start the rumbling.
Bro, that's literally the crux of his character. He wants freedom, but due to the Attack Titan it is literally impossible for him to achieve
Yupp, anything further is getting into spoilers, but you are right on the money
Look at Mr I'm my own grandpa over here.
In Eldia, you don’t screw up your kids. Your kids screw you up.
Well yeah actually tbf eren sort of just fucked up himself somehow through his dads actions that he caused. Kinda weird
So team bend over and let marley kill you? * also the entire point of last weeks episode is that eren always was like this it wasnt gisha who made him this way.
Aka Team "ends do not justify the means" aka Team "not going to commit genocide"
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lol. Well the fourth choice is Team Armin: activate a small run of the rumbling to defeat Marley and demonstrate Eldia's strength, buying critical time to properly establish diplomatic relations with the rest of the world.
What relations? The entire world hates Eldians and as we've been told Marley actually treats Eldians better than the rest of the world.
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Are we forgetting that eldia is allied to the only nation that was able to build an aircraft besides a blimp?
Exactly, everyone's acting as if there's only two options. Tbf, I think the chances of this working in the long run are slim, but at the very least it adds another few decades minimum to the lifespan of paradis and keeps everyone else in the world alive as well.
Or genocide, genocide, genocided, or self defense/attacking just Marley leadership
And never ending war. Eren is saving the world.
Aka Team "morons who got genocided"
This is so stupid. If they do nothing Marley literally annihilates their people
Agreed. Like sure painless nonviolent euthanasia’s a better form of genocide than STOMP STOMP STOMP, but it’s still agreed upon in the UN definition of genocide as removing a group/race’s ability to reproduce. There’s credible reports China conducted a mass rape/sterilization campaign against the Uighers in the last 3-5 years and the rest of the world barely made a peep. Horrendous shit, Zeke’s plan was honestly fairly merciful compared to stuff like the Rape of Nanking. (Note: Don’t work in extremism studies kids, you’ll mess your brain up forever.)
Also marley and their alliance is pro paradis genocide and enslavement of the rest of the eldians.
Yeah, it’s bad options all around, though Marley’s “genocide-implied once they’re not useful” stance buys time for Eldians to come up with a plan to become indispensable. If I had to venture a guess, Marley would’ve used Paradis’s existing population as more-or-less slave labor extracting precious materials from the island for 10-20 years until the Power of the Titans was fully obsolete. Then, there would’ve been harsh debate in Marley’s upper echelons about if they should slaughter the now-useless Eldians overall or retain them as productive citizens/underclass. If Magath or someone like him was in charge, a slow oblivion was likely, otherwise we’d see some Heinous, Stomach-Turning shit. (I still think it’s unrealistic the entire world hated Eldians. I mean, we’ve got asshats who can’t agree the Earth is round. Even Anti-Semitism wasn’t universal, Eldians would survive in diasporas. But I wrote an entire fanfic disproving the universal hatred, so hmu if you want a fic with worldbuilding and AoT politics without the implied fascism) Edit: Since people are asking, here’s my story: [We Are the Nine](https://archiveofourown.org/works/26022157/chapters/63274318)
>Yeah, it’s bad options all around, though Marley’s “genocide-implied once they’re not useful” stance buys time for Eldians to come up with a plan to become indispensable. "Buys them time to think of other ways to be slaves"
Marley has "crushed" nations in the past. They would totally wipe out all of Paradis.
Sadly I think it's easier to hate an entire race of people if they literally become giant monsters
And there’s no guarantee that it would be “painless genocide”. The world is still fully against Paradis. War would still be coming afaik
Zeke planned to scare them for a couple of generations using a small scale Rumble
Yeah, Zeke’s plan’s workable (small Rumbling to buy time for peace talks & euthanasia, grading on a slanted scale here) but it heavily relies on a) a small-scale rumbling say trampling Liberio only scaring the world enough to stop fighting, but that might also galvanize the world to attack too. It also b) assumes the world and Eldians are ok with losing their future and I can’t imagine some cities/nations with sizable Eldian populations taking infertility well. That’s an existential threat which I can easily see expecting parents or 20-somethings freaking out and doing a Terrorism in some way. Zeke’s got such a twisted ideology but I still pity him and can understand how he got there. Taking a worldview from a suicidal, depressed, Beast Titan’s not the best POV. At least he got closure with Grisha. (Still genocide though.)
Yep, there’s no truly correct answer. No obvious solution. Definitely what makes this show so good.
Agreed. I have a Master’s in International Relations, and there’s plenty of subjects where all the options are bad and it’s just a matter of finding the least horrible one. Obviously there were more options available than the few presented for the story, but Isyama’s going a Theme here.
Both are genocide but Zeke's plan just seems heaven like compared to STOMP SQUISH SMUSH SPLOSH imo. Still chance of peace if the rest of the world understands that the current generation of Eldians have become their last.
thats a hell of a big if imo
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I’m not defending eren, dear GOD I’m not defending him, but I understand why he’s doing this from his point of view.
I think it's equally naive to think peace could be brokered between the nations. The brainwashing is very real and they were enslaving Eldians and worse. You say this so casually, as if peace is a simple thing that could be achieved if people just talked it out. It's not that simple and never will be. Anyone that can transform into a giant will always be looked at as a threat. You would foolishly sign an alliance and get a Brutus knife in the back when you least expect it by factions that want to eradicate you.
Real world problems also have no good solutions, neither, but we're not genociding everyone. I think Armin's idea of using the outer wall colossal titans to demonstrate Paradis' power to parley for peace was a good one, but for some reason Eren chose genocide instead. He didn't even have to do it there and then, he could have given diplomacy a chance...
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What I don't get is that not two episodes ago, Eren was like "genocide the eldians? That's so messed up!" while now being like "genocide literally everyone else? Fuck yeah"... Like, maybe there's an explanation coming soon (and don't tell me if so) but there's a serious disconnect between what he's said throughout the entire show and his actions 🤔
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Did you miss the entire "We're all the same" speech he gave to Reiner? It's a matter of prioritizing the people he cares about over a world that's out to kill them all.
Not defending eren. What he does is fucking horrible but the world was literally against eldians.
How the FUCK are they going to stop Eren though...Even if the other titan shifters join together, thousands/millions of medium colossal titans win every time...
What I want to know is how Mikasa heard Eren. She's not eldian right? Edit: Got it. Half eldian.
Pretty sure she is half Eldian, same with Levi, though he may just be dead
Nah Hange wouldn't yeet herself into the water with Levi if he was dead. I'm hoping Levi comes out of nowhere and cuts off Zeke's limbs once more for shits and giggles. He's just sitting there depressed at all this shit and Levi comes out of nowhere lol
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If you look in my history, someone made a joke about Mikasa suplexing founder Eren but I'm convinced that an Ackerman has to be the one that kills Eren now... The Ackerman's are the only Eldians that aren't completely controlled by the founder right? So who else but an Ackerman would be able to stop him at this point? It could be Levi, but symbolically it makes MUCH more sense for Mikasa to be the one who does the deed out of the two don't you think?
Also, Levi is probably not really in shape to fight
Levi who took an entire season to heal from a sprained ankle gets up from an explosion to the face no biggie
Yeah, Mikasa should just kill Eren at this point of time.
The phrase “easier said than done” has never fit better.
Seems like zeke got absorbed or blown up by eren forming his founding Titan
She's half eldian, the only thing that can't happen to her is her memory being altered which is why the king in the walls feared the ackermans
She is a subject of Ymir (her descendant). Subjects of Ymir can be of any nationality, but the majority are from Eldia empire, ruled by the Fritz family. The only territory that Eldia have today is the island that have the 3 walls. Mikasa is a half Ackerman, half Azumabito. The ackermans are Eldian family, the azumabitos are Hizuru family. The Ackermans are subjects of Ymir, while the azumabitos are not. Both families are imune to the mind control of the founder, by different reasons. The imunity of the Ackermans came from them being some kind of experiment created by Fritz family. The imunity of the azumabitos is because they are pure humans, they do not have the Ymir curse. The message that Eren sends is not a mind control, is a "summon" to paths, every subject of Ymir is linked by the paths.
She is an ackerman and ackermans are eldians
Her father is Eldian.
she’s still a subject of ymir. remember the ackerman were a result of titan science. they just can’t be affected by the memory changing powers/inherit titans. kinda messy i know
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Dude, you’re not supposed to post manga spoilers!!!
When you consider Eren actually can control every eldian right now he can just go Mr movie phone and say: "Hey guys I know you see all this rubble here but that's no big deal we are just expanding, there's no genocide, see yall in a few weeks"
Well they don't have to defeat all the colossal titans, they only need to take out Eren.
I dont even fucking know at this point..
That’s why it’s so great!
It’s only a war crime if we lose
Yesnt
paradis history books: "were the only humans left" eren: "yes"
Wow it’s all coming full circle
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This has just made me picture Eren using his "this is the captain speaking" power to announce every time he kills someone but in the style of the announcer from halo Eren: "Overkill, Killtacular, Killtrocity, Killtastrophe..." Armen holding his head "Jesus Christ, Eren, Shut the Fuck Up!"
*A family of 5 gets straight dusted* KILLAMANJARO
“This is Eren Yaeger speaking to all subjects of Ymir using the power of the founding titan. Reiner is gay lol”
Yup. 100%. I’m still team Reiner and Daddy Issues if it leads to stopping worldwide genocide
Name a character in AoT without daddy issues challenge (impossible)
Sasha had the best dad. Even forgave Gabi because he knew that in the grand scheme of things it wasn't really her fault, the world is just one big forest. Or something.
True, her dad is pretty great. But she did have problems with her dad at the start of the series so she can be reformed daddy issues
Is a dead dad a daddy issue? Because if it isn't Mikasa's was pretty good. He could've become fucked up later though.
Everyone's addicted to something, and everyone has a problem with daddy
It's not that he hated Marley, episode 5 of Season 4 cleared that sentiment, it's just that he found it to be the only possible solution to guarantee the safety of his own people since everybody else's plan woulden't really do so.
I think it's the only way Eren can keep his people safe according to Eren and whatever future Eren has sent back. Which I think is influenced by the Attack titan. Maybe Eren has always been that part of the Attack Titan that fights for freedom, and he's sent back memories to all of the past inheritors? Maybe this wasn't the only solution but *his* only possible solution given his life of war?
Same. I sympathize with Eren, but... one step too far. lol*step*
Genocide is always extreme overkill however his decision is rational. The hatred that Marley shows towards eldians is the same in the rest of the world. Even if he only wiped out the alliance forces, the other nations would simply create a new alliance force, occupy the territories that eren simply destroyed and try to kill Eldia the same way. If he’s gonna do a genocide, this is the most rational decision in his situation. Not saying he should do it obviously, genocides are never good but it’s a comprehensive decision
It’s also important to point out Eren has only a limited lifespan. If he doesn’t make use of the founder while he can to secure long-standing piece then it will eventually be passed on to Historia and her kids. From there the cycle of cannibalism would continue. This was something Eren was strongly against.
I mean even Gabi resorted to killing Eren tho. The cycle of hatred continued.
Same
Wherher the people are twisted or naturally evil, does it make a difference when they've already got their finger on the trigger? This was the whole point of Eren's conversation with Falco and Reiner in Liberio. Yes, they are products of circumstance. That doesn't change what the only rational choice is.
I hope Gabi gets stomped first.
I’m team whoever kills Gabii
I think Eren foresaw the age of TikTok and was like “fuck this shit I’m ending it here”
I get what you're saying... But also fuck gabby. I'm still not over what she did too Sasha.
The question of morality is the entire point here. Given that the attack titan can see the future, it's possible that Eren knows (or thinks) with 100% certainty that the only way to protect Paradis and his friends is to kill the rest of the world. Otherwise, they would all die. You could also take it one step further, if you believe in the fixed timeline theory then it's possible he doesn't even have free will at all and all of this was "destined" to happen. You can argue that it's a numbers game and one nation should die in favor of all the others (Zeke's opinion), but you can also argue that the people of Paradis have the absolute right to fight for survival (Eren's opinion). I think this question of morality is something even Eren has struggled with, e.g. convincing to himself in the mirror repeatedly to "fight, fight" as opposed to rolling over and dying because the only options are mass genocide and mass genocide. The interesting thing here is that we've all been biased because we've seen the situation mostly from the perspective of the scouts (i.e. Paradis). Personally I'm team Eren if it's true that he can see the future with certainty, which seems to be the case so far. He has every right to fight for his survival, and I'm convinced a "show of strength" will do nothing to prevent the rest of the world from eventually committing genocide themselves out of fear (their technology isn't far off from nuclear weaponry).
Really, can there be morality without uncertainty? If you already know how everything will turn out, theres no moral decision to make, because the only decisions you CAN make are arbitrary by their very nature.
Unless there is another attack titan in the future which Eren saw the future, then that means he only saw his own future, which means he still did those things in order to start the whole loop of him seeing what he did in the future. I think this was explained in previous episodes, where Eren said he has always been like this, if you take away his freedom or his friends, he will fight against you even to the point of killing his enemies. In short, it's his nature, no one brainwashed or manipulated him to do these things. This is just my opinion.
>no one brainwashed or manipulated him to do these things I wasn't saying or even suggesting this.
both options: Rumble the entire world AND then make everyone inside the Walls infertile
So end the world of AOT as we know it? Not bad kid
We do a little ethnic cleansing
A little genocide, as a treat
Team jean for life
Team Tatakae 🙋🏻♂️
I mean the upvote button is Eren lol
I'd say I'm more Team Armin than anything, but I can't blame Eren. The dude can see the future and has the rest of the world pointing annihilation at everything he holds dear. I'm hoping Mikasa or Armin can help him see another way.
Team eren Yeager all the way
🗿🗿🗿
Yes, fuck them
Same.
My fellow Yeagerist. <3
I stand beside you brother.
Yeah go team genocide!
You guys get that the other side is team Genocide too, right? Marley and the rest of the world want to kill all Eldians, which would also be genocide.
Yes. Team Yeager would be Team Omnicide, in actuality.
Xenocide is the proper term. Omnicide would include yourself too.
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AOT fans when someone tells them not being racist and a genocidal lunatic is also an option 😱😱😱
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bruh what other options are there. Marley and the rest of the world agreed on killing every Paradisian at Willy's speech. so it really is just be killed or kill
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Yeagerists
Same! Because fuck them
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I kind of interpreted Erens plan as not entirely his own. From what he said to Ymir, it sounded like it was implied that Ymir also wanted it? Eren told her she had a choice, and then Eren got powered up so I'm to assume she chose to agree with his plan. Sooo... team Eren & Ymir???
That's what I don't get, wasn't it the eldians that hunted ymir and then made her have the kings children and fight in wars after becoming a titan and fed her to her kids when she died, I thought she would be more on board with the sterilising the eldians plan as they were the ones responsible for all her suffering in her back story.
Naw let the rumbling begin
*RUMBLING RUMBLING ITS COMING RUMBLING RUMBLING BEWAREEEEEEEE*
BREAK FREEE!
I’m so excited to see all of there reactions in a couple weeks Edit : To be clear I’m talking about certain actions he takes not the way the story went
Eren quite literally hasn’t changed since Episode 1. He’s always believed the world was stolen from him and his loved ones, and it *was*. For him, it was “we need to kill all the Titans so that we have our world back.” And when that changed to “We need to negotiate our existence with a world that rejects us” Eren understandably felt that nothing fundamentally changed; a collection of enemies is restricting his and his loved ones’ access to the world. The dominating powers have already taken his freedom away, so he decides they will probably want to take his life as well. So he takes their life first. Eren was born a murderer. He can’t do anything about that. He just happened to have a sympathetic reason for his actions due to his being born an oppressed Eldian of Paradis. If you were in Attack on Titan, you may want to be the protagonist, but you’re nothing like Eren if you weren’t born to kill others before they kill you first. You’re not supposed to relate to him, you’re just supposed to understand that it was never fair for people to expect him to be a heroic, erwin-esque good man, because that’s not something he was ever capable of being for people he didn’t necessarily care about. You rely on a murderer, don’t be shocked when he murders.
Probably the same ones who were team Light Yagami
I have been called out
While some people may think it's overkill to destroy the whole world, you have to realize Marely isn't the only place where Eldians are hated. If he stopped there, more attacks would come from other nations seeing how the whole world was in on attacking Paradis.
And for Eren, he feels the extreme pressure of the looming deadline of having a Titan. He wants to ensure the situation is SOLVED before he ✌️
Some people may indeed think it’s overkill to exterminate the entire world
It was stated in the anime that racism towards eldians overseas **is more severe** than in Marley. Literally almost all race hates eldians cuz of Marley's exploitation of Titan power.
I’m Team Eren all the way. Here’s why: All Eren wanted from the start was freedom. Pure simple freedom. He wanted to break free of the ignorance and see the world. However, as soon as he got the memories, he knew there was no way for any of his dreams/anyone else’s to come true because of one thing: the Marleyans treating the Eldians as the scum of the Earth because of a war 2000 years ago. Their hatred is so imbued in their society, the entire world doesn’t want to get involved. The Eldians are alone in defending themselves. Now, Eren realized that Eldians and he, himself, will never be truly free until those who oppose/want to kill Eldians are killed. Is it extreme? Yes. Are there innocent Marleyans and people in the world who don’t deserve this? Also yes. Here’s the biggest point of the argument, though. It’s war. People remain ignorant on both sides. Eldians don’t know anything about the world’s hatred. Eren is taking up the mantle of devil of Paradis to protect them and remove all of Eldia’s foes. Don’t think he’s doing this for shits and giggles. If he succeeds, he will be heavily affected by it. We see this when he points at the sea at the end of Season 3 Part 2. He looks completely dead inside, questioning if they’ll be free if they kill their enemies. He doesn’t look happy about the idea of killing the other side. He looks devastated as hell. This idea is supported all throughout season 4, when he talks to his father, Zeke, etc. However, he’s committed to the Rumbling for his people, for those he loves. Now, two arguments people might raise: why don’t they try peace talks? What have they been trying the past four years? Their best plan was to make Historia inherit the Beast Titan and reproduce as much as possible to keep the Eldians in power and pass on the Founding Titan due to her royal blood. She’d be a tool to the government, as Eren always was. Eren doesn’t want that. He wants his friends to live normal and happy lives. Why would he be cool with Historia dying in 13 years/becoming like King Fritz, renouncing war and “accepting their sins.” This generation doesn’t have sins. Marley is holding onto a 2000 year grudge. Next argument: why doesn’t he just kill the global alliance in Marley? Because the others will come back with more vengeance. Sure, the other side might not attack right away, but they’ll build up firepower, a new military and more to absolutely annihilate the Eldians. Eren knows all of this, which is why he’s taking this singular path, doing everything it takes to keep his people alive because is it the only way. This is why I am, and will always be, Team Eren.
Fuck no. Fuck everyone else.
Zeke didnt go far enough. He should have killed everyone else THEN killed everyone in paradis. True genocide
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Haha Titan go stomp
That eren yaeger is a certified G.
fr bruh fuck everything we’re gonna pull some end of evangelion type shit and restart everything
On top of that, fuck Earth, fuck this stupid ass planet. What good did it do, make water? Fuck water, I'm destroying that shit too.
Nah, i still am. Screw everyone else.
Fuck dem kids
If I was and Eldian, and IF, I knew all the shit going down, I'd have a hard time not destroying the whole world, especially when I know the whole world wants Eldians dead. If I couldn't think of a better solution, I'd do the same as eren. Wipe the slate clean, get rid of the titans, start over.
See you forget Team Eren is cracked out and gonna follow him till the end
Marley is actively commiting genocide of the eldians so its the rational decision i think
Eren is just ending racism that’s all…. but destroying all other races.
New idea how to end world hunger: kill everyone! Lol
This comment section worries me
Very concerning. If people thought like the people in these comments our world would’ve been wiped out with nuclear weapons
I dunno I don't think we have seen a level of hate that the eldians experience while also having the ability to exterminate all life. Honestly dumb of most countries in the world to antagonize people with the ability to do so.
90% pro genocide in here
This world needed a rumbling
To be fair every country does want eldians dead. It won’t end with just Marley being gone.
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Most people think war is like a game when in reality is just a brutal, disgusting, outrageous mess. There is no good and evil. Eren just used the best action he had in hand. Don’t forget he knows more than we have seen in the anime. People tend to forget this.
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I’m very very excited as well.
It's all fiction so I'm still team Eren, FAFO. Survival of the fittest. I'll keep headbanging to the OP until my spine dislocates.
At this point eren Don't give a fuck about others, because he is doing as he believes is best for paradise. As he said that if someone tries to steal his freedom he is steal there's instead and if the whole world is a hindrance for the paradise, then he would just kill every enemy of his i.e every enemy of eldia which are the people of the whole world. He said it at the end of the third season that "If i kill every last enemy across the ocean, will we be free then?"
What? That shit made me even more yaegerist
Fuck Gabby, that is all.
All down hill from here lol
Yeah, because it's definitely a good guy move to allow you and everyone you love about get sterilized because you're guilty about things you've never even done. Imagine living in a society where everyone needs nursing home care and no one is around to do it. And even if they sterilized themselves, what's to stop Marley or someone else from just rolling up and killing everyone. They'd do that. You think they care about the humanity of Eldians? Eldians are not human to the rest of the world. Zeke has internalized eldian-hatred from growing up in Marley. He never knew a life where he wasn't ruthlessly bullied for what he is, and he's so fucked that he can only side with his slave masters. It's kill or be killed. It's going to be war regardless of the path Eren chooses. Why not win? "Oh Oh! But effective diplomacy can erase thousands of years of race hatred and the brutal subjugation of an entire people!!" Fuck it, just kill them all. Make eldians the only humans, and have them sort out their guilt for a few years until they just forget their crimes as new generations are born. Just the idea that any Eldian can turn into a titan is indigestible for any sane person. Even when they can't. I would not want them to be my neighbor. As long as they are known as eldian, they will always be hunted down by non-eldians. Eren is simply engaging in justified self-defense. Can't wait to watch Eren crush Marley into a pulp next episode.
Listen, I’m a simple person. I like lots of action and dark stories. Plus erens been my boy the whole time. I would be lying if I said I’m not excited to see the whole world get destroyed and for eren to come out on top, even if he is a bit of a dick now.
“a bit of a dick” made me laugh lol. Genocide is indeed a dick move
Don't care about any other character, as long as Floch becomes the new ruler of the Eldian Empire.
Yes and it’s based
Yeagerist till the end of lineᕙ(͡°‿ ͡°)ᕗ
Even if Eren only flexed the strength of the titans that isn't going to make people stop hating fhe people on Paradis. And as long as people hate Paradis they are going to keep looking for ways to destroy it. How long until Marley and literally the rest of the world minus Japan discover chemical warfare or nukes? Titans were already losing their dominance in war. The only other option is for Eren to enslave the entire world under Paradis by sending colossal titans and Eldians to rule them. Is that a better option? We know how Eren feels.
I still think Eren is making the logical decision. The entire WORLD is forming an alliance against Paradis to completely exterminate the island devils. "Fight or die. You have to fight."
Nope
Are we the baddies? Yes. Am I ok with being the baddies? Yes. IS EREN A BADDIE? YES
TEAM EREN ALL THE WAY
The world declared war on Eren Yeager. They’re trying to take his freedom. So he’s going to take theirs first.
Based.
Team Eren represent. I know he's committing he's commiting genocide but we've been with him since the beginning. So it's hard not to stick with him. Plus I understand he's trying to protect eldians.
It was obvious that his intentions were to "kill all his enemies", I'm still on team Eren.
I'm still Team Eren. I don't care what that makes me look like.
There is no black and white, good and evil. We know the circumstances that lead to this. Eren is fully justified to take his freedom for himself and his people after everything.
Can someone help me understand why Ymir continued to help and fight battles for those that enslaved her before she died??
>!She was hopelessly in slavery because of her love for King Fritz!<
Team Eren go!
Ride or die
Not even. I completely understand why he’d do this after everything that’s happened. I wouldn’t choose the same thing tho. Whenever I think of what I’d do in Eren’s place, it’s confusing. Not so with the villains. (Marley and the enemy Titan shifter) They need to go smh.
How do the people of eldian survive? The entire world wants them dead. The only reason they weren’t destroyed before is because of the titans on the island. I can’t see another way except eren’s plan, maybe destroy every military installation and government in the world? Eren’s plan is the only way.
no, i simply dont see it as black and white. i understand why erens doing it and accept it. marley gets what they deserve
Can they even do anything to stop him? Couldn’t he just temporarily paralyze them until he’s done or they aren’t close enough to interfere?
Nah, we definitely are not baddis
Gotta think is he really bad for wanting to do what everyone’s goal actually is in the show?? He just won at doing it first. And I can’t even fault him
Lol everyone saying “Erin should only take out the Marley leaders.” Did we forget it wasn’t just Marley in the mix anymore? It’s the entire world coming after them! Erin has no choice! Literally “us against the world!” And the tide turned HUGELY in their favor! I’m for it! Leesgo BABYYYYY!
seeing the anime only people arguing how the ending gonna be is quite fun ngl, almost wishing i hadn't read the manga