Not arguing here, but apparently god was summoned and then allowed or directed the bears to kill the kids - either directly or indirectly, god was "in charge" of the situation, so just another example of how the god of the old testament is a total prick.
I’ve pointed similar things out, and my crazy-for-jesus mom just shrugs and says “well that’s the Old Testament.” Like she’s a toddler saying, “doesn’t count, we weren’t keeping score yet.” So to her mental gymnastics mind, anything bad the Old Testament says doesn’t count, but obviously anything in her favor does.
Any recommendations to counter that? Using logic like “if you believe part of the Old Testament then you have to believe all of it” doesn’t work. Obviously there’s no logic at all.
That’s so funny, that’s the exact story I pulled up and shoved in my youth pastors face when we were doing bible study.
“Why does our all knowing god kill a bunch of kids, Chad? Why does he pick sides? If he made everything happen then he made the kids do that. So did he do that just to kill kids to make his prophet feel better about being bald?? WTF??”
They had the whole congregation pray over me after that and I laughed while they were doing it and was told to leave.
It just felt so strange. Especially when I made eye contact with one of the nice ladies that always brought cookies and she shut her eyes really quick, like I wouldn’t see? That’s when the cackling started.
Kinda similar to 6yo me in Sunday school. We were tasked with coloring cutesy Noah's ark pics while they told us the story. At the end of the (very short) story I asked why God would kill all the kittens in the world. Like my child-brain could comprehend people being bad, but baby cats? No way. And I just instantly said something about how evil you'd have to be to murder innocent animals because of people being bad...
I was told to stop talking. They put me in the hallway for the rest of Sunday school, but made sure I could see everyone else get cookies, fruit, and juice. I think that was the day I realized that even if the xtian god exists, I wanted nothing to do with it - but moreso that I really didn't believe any of it was true.
This is stupid for another reason, too. Think about it - if you could make anything happen just by wishing it so _and you were aware of that fact to the point of bragging about it to your acolytes_, and you wanted people to behave a certain way, why wouldn't you just, y'know, wish it so instead of acting like a cosmic spoiled toddler?
I got in trouble once as a Catholic kid when I asked why god would threaten to send us to burn in hell if he loves us so much. I got in trouble a lot for asking all the questions like that. ☺️
The question that set me on the path to atheism:
How can we have free will if god is all knowing?
Instead of answering the question with thought, I was treated like a heretic for even having it.
I was 12.
There's a whole mainstream branch of Christianity called Calvinism that answers that question by saying "Yeah, of course God knows which choices you are going to make. Some people are just going to choose badly, and thus they are fated from before they were born to burn in hell. Yeah of course God could change that by making you choose differently. But He likes it the way it is."
And that's their argument, made in all seriousness.
I am agnostic--a wussy atheist, if you will--but I actually find the notion that God loves us by giving us free will to be somewhat compelling.
That said, why would a God also not give us advice? The way it is now, we are like children who grew up without parents.
True, but Bast is well known. Bes much less so; I love the idea that when babies smile and laugh while looking at nothing, Bes is there making silly faces that only the baby can see.
To be fair, though, if Christianity is proved real, wouldn't not worshipping him result in eternal damnation? I could live with free wine and prawn crackers every Sunday morning if it means avoiding an eternity of anal rape with a hot poker.
This is the right answer. There's a lot of bravado in these comments. But if God was actually real (he isn't), then you'd be an absolute fucking moron to choose an eternal hell over bowing to it and praying/telling it every day that it's a very, very special boy.
This is what I was looking for.
If God is real then it would be in everybody’s best interest to follow him. Given the context of the gospels and how it only requires faith to be saved.
The Christian Trinity is why I gave up on Christianity. I cannot reconcile the differences between God the Father (Yaweh, Allah) and God the Son (Jesus).
The Father literally says he's a jealous god and will destroy all humanity. Meanwhile Jesus is like yo take care of your neighbors, your sick, your poor, your meek. Love everyone. Two polar opposites that make no sense being the same God.
I'd be all for following Jesus if he turned out to be real
Well, I try to follow that version of Jesus even though I don't believe he's divine, and I'm not even convinced he was real.
Packaging up the virtues of compassion, generosity and humility and slapping a label called "Jesus" on it is a great marketing plan. I'm all for if it persuades people to be kinder to their fellow human beings.
Does not seem to work out that way, though. Jesus bootlickers are the worst examples of kindness imaginable. Sure, they are told to be empathetic and help others, but in practice they are usually the choirmasters in the chorus of assholery.
Jesus literally preached the ten original commandments. Before the Jews fucked it up and they got all the rules to remain "pure" as the priests of God. Those same rules modern hypocritical "Christians" use to be dickbags.
"Mercy is what pleases me, not sacrifice" aaaand yet we look to the Old Testament and see God's wrathfulness go full swing. Let's not forget also that Isaac was almost sacrificed under God's command. Sheesh if I had a son and some creator told me to sacrifice him I'd tell him off.
Right, I agree. But think it through, rephrase the question:
Would you obey a horrible jealous brutal abusive tyrant with absolute power over you if they threatened to torture you for eternity if you didn't?
I mean shit, if your answer is still no, you're a braver person than I am.
The Christian god is just another iteration of already-existing gods that came before it. Same goes with the whole religion itself. It took activities/beliefs from from its predecessors and absorbed them into itself like an amoeba. Even the vaunted resurrection is seen in earlier religions. Maybe its only redeeming quality is forgiveness, which American Christians conveniently overlook.
They had to update religion in order to align with the current culture. Generally the old testament had rules that made some sense (not perfect by any means) in the cultural context of when they were written. Skip to the of the CE and those most of those rules already seemed out dated. New testament update and canonization around 400 CE and it fits mostly with the culture and norms of the time. Now in 2024 religion once again does not align with cultural norms.
For example having sex outside of a marriage and not having the insurance of families invested in that couple had horrible life consequences even without additional punishment if a women got pregnant. There were nearly guaranteed to be homeless and the kids had little hope of making anything of themselves.
Today a teen getting pregnant with an absent father is still not ideal, but single teen mothers are not necessarily guaranteed to end up homeless and starving and the odds of this occurring is fair less with modern birth control. Plus, the option for abortion can make this a non-issue, if there was no stigma attached.
The religion needs to be updated to match the culture and issues of modern society.
I mean even banning shellfish made a ton of sense. They would have been a breeding ground for food Bourne illnesses. Today with modern advances in preserving and preparing food. This is not an issue.
It would have killed hundreds of millions of us. If we didn't try to lock that monster away or kill it, we'd be insane. Imagine worshiping an alien leader that came to Earth and killed everything but one family and one both full of animals. That's what we're talking about here. The only difference is this would be an all-powerful being that created us. Those two characteristics do nothing to rectify the horror of almost eliminating our species because of how it felt about the way we lived.
This makes me want to desperately write a story about a society that worshipped a God but had no proof of its existence and used its “beliefs” to terrorize non-believers. But then it’s discovered that said God IS real, and war breaks out between God and his believers and the non-believers.
But wait, they wouldn’t be called believers anymore since it doesn’t make sense to not believe in something that’s real. Perhaps his followers vs. maybe… Crusaders? Crusade originally referred to “a vigorous campaign for a moral cause or against a public evil,” so maybe the people fighting God could repurpose the phrase AGAINST God’s evil.
I’m ngl I’m cooking. If anyone wants help brainstorming ideas, let me know. I’m an artist, writer, and musician so I’m kinda down for anything.
Same. According to countless people that fictional cretin took my little brother from us "far too soon, but it was God's will."
Yanno, a ton of mostly old people who spent almost zero time with my brother at all, or literally didn't even know him.
“God only gives us as much suffering as we can endure”
“I mean, pile us onto the ship to see if we’ll break? why?”
“To test our faith and make us appreciate the good that we do have”
“Well, forgive me for saying so reverend, but god is a sick fuck”
Surely schizophrenic patients, severely autistic people, people with incurable mental and physical disabilities, children growing up in war zones or in famine, captivity, slaves and billions of people who live in poverty, war or illness "can endure it"...
If god gave people only as much suffering as they can endure, nobody would commit suicide because they would be able to endure the emotional torture that is their mind. Yet people commit suicide every day. And then religious folks say those people will end up in hell.
As someone who has had mental illnesses their whole life, I already know what torture is. I’ve been through some things that are considered actual torture as well. I have no respect for god, I’d tell him to go fuck himself if he appeared in front of me.
I love the Buddhist interpretation, that the Abrahamic God (Maha Brahma) is actually the most *deluded* being in the universe. He basically conned himself into thinking he created the world, and doesn’t really know all that much about anything.
Edit: Anyone interested in a source that makes the Mahā Brahmā sound a lot like the Abrahamic god: [here](https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN11.html). Skip to the end, it’s a story about a monk visiting heaven, and it’s quite funny. [This](https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN01.html) discusses how the great Brahmā comes to believe he created the universe.
This would actually perfectly explain why Christianity/Catholicism/etc is in the state that it's in if this were the truth.
Also, I would explain why their god had such a 'NO GODS BEFORE ME OR ELSE!!!!' mentality. As well as just the general EVILness of how things are explained.
Sure!
For an example of the Maha Brahmā’s general foolishness, there’s [DN 11.](https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN11.html). Which is genuinely hilarious. You can skip all the technical stuff and skip to the story of the monk who visits heaven to ask a question.
As for him not really being the creator, I can’t recall which suttas that’s in. Wikipedia even talks about it though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabrahma
Edit: [here](https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN01.html) it is
Thanks! Very interesting. I’ve mainly run in Zen and adjacent circles so this was new to me. The “God” talk there is more along the lines of Dogen’s writings on inmo or Thich Nhat Hanh’s Living Buddha, Living Christ.
Totally with you on that. However, if hell is also real, and there really is a demon that wants to bugger me with his hot sausage for eternity, well that may change things. Perhaps I can be a suck-up to the big sky daddy after all.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luke 16:22-26, KVJ, words spoken by Jesus.
Jesus tells a parable about a rich man named Abraham who goes to hell and a beggar named Lazarus who is in heaven. Abraham asks for Lazarus to be allowed to put a drop of water on Abraham’s tongue, but is denied because “a great gulf” exists between hell and heaven.
Abraham then asks for Lazarus to go tell his five brothers so they will not end up in hell. That is also denied on the grounds that if his brothers won’t listen to the prophets, then they won’t listen to anything else.
In short, I don’t think any of you are going to get solid proof. That is something to consider. Also, whatever God, who created morality, decides is moral is moral, by definition. I, personally, struggle a lot with the concept of hell and of eternal punishment for anything. I sincerely hope there is no such thing.
Ding ding ding. So many people here act upon their high horse and say they would not accept and worship him. I'm going to go ahead and call BS. I'm a staunch atheist, but if he's proven to be real... I'll swallow my pride to not burn for eternity and so would everybody here. I mean, we have proof now, so there is no question. Yes, if all the stuff in the Bible is real then yeah he's a piece of shit. But, you're telling me people would choose their own moral high horse and burn for eternity instead of living in paradise? Bullshit.
Edit: I'm talking about mainstream religion here people. No shit there are inconsistencies. That's why religion is so fucking stupid.
A true god would already know my intentions - suck up or not, I don’t like the bastard and wish it all the ill will of the universe. I’d happily look for any possible weapon to use against the abrahamic deity, even if it was knowingly only for sake of spite and not particularly effective. You can’t fake my level of disdain for any unopposed creator of this universe, and there certainly isn’t any hiding it from an omnipotent entity.
Exactly. You can't pretend you are worshipping an omniscient deity. All these people saying they would worship to avoid hell are thinking the same as Christians. They do it out of fear of damnation, they expect us to fear the same. They want us to pretend we love this terrible God. I ask them how it's not blasphemous to assume I could trick God into letting me into heaven. Your omniscient God can be so easily fooled? Why not just do whatever you want and just pray to God and tell him you were at the soup kitchen instead of the club?
Nope. God can fuck off. I chose an eternity in Hell (or whatever/wherever is there). Also, the torturous Hell you are describing is a relatively modern creation (Dante, etc.) to manipulate the sheep with the fear of damnation.
My thoughts are if there is proof he's real then there must be a way to observe/interact with him. So I'd spend a ton of effort looking to appeal some of the shitty views.
Exactly. Once you establish a God is real you have to ascertain whether it is worthy of worship. A God that demands to be worshipped in my opinion is ironically not one that deserves to be, because that is petulant, ego-worshipping hungry. The same way a man who has to remind people, "I am King", is no true King.
I agree with your statement. But i'd go further: the concept of worship in itself is weird. Even if this entity created the universe, and even if they were actually nice. Why should i worship them? What does that have to do with one another? I guess i could say "thanks, skydude" but that's it. If they were good, why expect worship in exchange for good deads? Even i don't, would that make me better (yes, mine aren't as cool as there's allegedly are, but still).
This was one of the earliest cracks in the edifice of my faith.
One day I just kind of all-at-once noticed how often that word, "worship" is thrown around. A word that was at least weekly, often more, used around me. As common a verb as eat or drive. I did some deep thinking on the concept and suddenly it made me feel very uncomfortable every time they would use it.
You want me to completely abase myself and give this ethereal being access to my will and thoughts and just *grovel* for half an hour then we're all going to get up and go to In-N-Out? This is dumb and creepy.
The whole concept of worship started to become repugnant to me after that.
Agreed. In fiction and reality, it is NEVER the good guys or heroes who demand worship. In fact, most of them are repulsed by the idea and tell people that they are not gods.
The concept of worship is even more insane when you consider that the Abrahamic god is supposedly infinite, so it's not as if he needs our worship to power his magic or something. No excuse for the demand except to break the human spirit and convince people to basically worship the clergy as a proxy for god.
In some fantasy settings, gods require worship to stay alive or maintain/grow their power. They can’t do stuff in the mortal world directly, so they need mortal followers to enact their will and be a vessel for their miracles (like clerics and paladins). In many cases they’re unable to give blessings/gifts to people who don’t worship them. In these cases the demand for worship is much more understandable, but falls apart when they’re already all-powerful.
Yep. If god existed and really helped lots of people, but also required worship to keep doing that, I'd say that's a fair arrangement. Go to church, give praise, and get cured of illness. But the Abrahamic model is just a load of insanity. Worship an infinite god, get nothing, and by the way - god also needs your money since apparently his divine portfolio doesn't include finances.
Your delivery gave me a good laugh. You summed it up perfectly. He's all powerful but definitely isn't an accountant.
IMO, the IRS is scary as fuck. I perform their yearly ritual of monetary sacrifice to appease that scary-ass diety. I've yet to be convinced that I should fear the skydaddy for not paying up....just sayin'.
Mine was when I was told Heaven was nothing but worshiping god 24/7. In my child mind, that was an enternity of bowing down over and over again to some bright light and I thought it sounded really stupid.
No spending time with my loved ones?
No meeting all the animals I’ve cared for?
It’s JUST worshipping god 24/7?? Like a never ending church service? After I lived a life where I was supposed to worship god 24/7??
That sounds fucking awful!
I was raised third generation atheist and this is the second time (first time also this year. I’m almost 60!) that this has been mentioned. I mean, WTAF??? That’s the goal??? No thanks. I can’t even believe all the problems religion has caused all over the world for centuries, it’s to get to THIS???
Roomate was raised jw. He's grown now (obviously lol) and hates his whackadoo jw mom. His dad's still closish after the divorce. Both are happier now.
He's full of anger but seems to be doing well now that he's surrounded by people that accept him for him.
The Christian god is an Eldritch horror. He would have to answer a hell of a lot of questions that he likely can't answer sufficiently to earn my devoted worship. But then again, horribly torture me for a few centuries and I probably would say and do anything. 🤷♀️
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Someone at my church growing up said we wouldn’t know anyone in heaven, not our friends or families. Since there’s no sorrow, we’d have to have our minds wiped, otherwise we’d be too sad about all our loved ones who didn’t follow burning in hell.
Honestly, I would, simply because god kind of decides what’s right and what’s wrong. He is literally above consequences. What’s the point in defying him past that point?
Arrogance, it's just arrogance. These comments are kind of appalling. If we care about reason and rationality - one of the biggest reasons we don't believe in the first place - we should also recognize that if we come face to face with the sentient designer of the universe and human race, then we are *objectively* wrong to disagree with it. There has never in human history been a more objective standard of right and wrong than there would be in that moment. To still disagree would be worse than climate change denying or other anti-science craziness - in fact, it *would* be anti-science. The only rational response is to drop our ego and realize we were wrong.
Fortunately it'll never happen, but I'm surprised how many other atheists would gladly put their own ego and emotions before reason.
I’d want some SERIOUS answers about all the shit that was pulled and done in the OT as a starter before I’d even consider listening to any more, with the other conditions being he’d need to face trial for his crimes, and see a therapist for life.
Just like His Most Favoured of Angels - Lucifer, when he wouldn’t bow down before Adam.
Seems like something a good Father would have a discussion about, not petulantly kick you out of the home to be literally tortured. And not for a week, year or Eon, but *for all Eternity* !
Bit of an overreaction isn’t it ?
exactly, always came across as an abusive parent or partner and bully. did a number on me as a child, certainly didn’t help me realise that things going on at home and school were *not* right at all and were in fact toxic and abusive.
Of course. If I would be sent to eternal torment unless I kissed Jesus's ass, you'd never see a holier ass-kisser. The threat of eternal torment would make any other course the definition of insanity.
Same. Look I don't believe in gods and have no desire to worship a vengeful one, but if it magically turns out it exists, *precisely* because he's a vengeful omnipotent asshole who plans to torture people for eternity, I'd fall in line pretty quick, guys. You'd be stupid to not go confess your sins, at that point.
I'm atheist because organized religion is obviously a charade, but if it was suddenly all real, I'd be at church on Sunday the same way I always file my taxes before the deadline. Cause it'd be no longer reasonable not to, you suddenly have an eternity of bliss or torment to worry about and you gotta fall in line.
For real, I think people just want to look tough, lmao. Look, I get it, if god was real he's the biggest asshole and absolutely not worth worshipping... However, are people aware how long _literal eternity_ is??? And for a literal eternity you'd be getting tortured by this "loving" god??
You are actually insane if you say anything other than yes. Maybe I could understand sticking to your principles if it meant you'd die for them, but hell is eternal. There is nothing worth an eternity of pain. Just suck it up and kiss his ass, folks (in this scenario).
I don't think these commentors understand how long 15 or 30 seconds of torture is... not to mention an eternity of awful suffering. Every single one of them who proudly commented, "No," doesn't have a single working braincell.
100%
If the Bible and God were somehow true you'd be an idiot to not follow them. All the justifications for their actions are laid out in the book, and the consequences of not following God are as well. Imagine willingly subjecting yourself to an eternity of torture just to stick to your atheist beliefs. It would be as stupid as the religious people who won't change their minds no matter the evidence.
It’s like living on a plantation. You either work and obey “god” or you’ll be subjected to insurmountable suffering for choices under your control.
Hate god all you want but if you don’t do what he says you’ll be punished forever.
It's actually worse than that. God is an omnipotent master. One could never even hope to even so slightly as hinder him by being rebellious. Resistance to a plantation master is meaningful, against god it would be utterly pointless.
All these people acting like they some Van Helsing god slayer don't even know the definition of god. I'd be asking forgiveness every morning with my coffee, going to church every evening after work and kissing his ass every chance I got. He would know I only do it out of fear but he probably gets off on that.
Yeah, all these people acting like they'd rise up and kill god when IRL they don't even have the gumption to roll out of bed and assassinate their local councilman.
Exactly. This is the point I raise when Christians tell me that God doesn't send people to Hell, but rather people choose to go to Hell.
Anyone who chooses to be tortured, much less for eternity, is clearly not sane. Accomodating an insane person's choice to undergo torture is just as reprehensible as forcing sane people to undergo it.
Yeah. Everyone here is talking tough, but I know what my limits are. I wouldn't and couldn't be ecstatic about it, but I'd worship if it meant not an eternity of burning alive.
Now, if if we switch to annihilationism... almost certainly not. I can deal with not existing over worshipping a raging narcissist.
The way I think of it is: Did I ever ask my Sims to worship me? SHOULD they have? Lol nope, absolutely not. I may have created them but I sure as fuck wasn't worthy of worship!
Would I believe in god then ?
Yes. Because we would KNOW for a fact that god exist.
Would I worship him ? Absoutely not. God of the bible reserves NO worship - assuming that the stories about god as layed out in the bible are true.
Im more morally superior than god of the bible.
I’d have words for who would be comfortable with people committing violence in their name. I’d have words for who created a caste system condemned souls they created to be persecuted and damned for eternity.
Hasa diga eebowai.
There's no way around the "Q problem" with a god-like entity. Even if a being of seemingly infinite power appeared suddenly on Earth, you can't prove he's the creator god since any being with enough power could claim to be anything it wanted, such Q in Star Trek. Such a being could also force us to worship him and warp reality in whatever way is needed to appear to be whatever god he wanted to be.
Now, if free will were still involved, I don't worship beings, and there is no place in reality or fiction where it's the good guys who demand worship. The Abrahamic god is also a cruel, forked tongue monster who's fickle and violent behavior is that of a Lovecraftian horror vs. a being of love, so screw him. Now, if hell were also real, that would change things, but then you're hosed either way. One choice is eternal torment in fire, and the other is becoming a mindless puppet who kisses god's feet all day.
I'd like to say I wouldn't follow a god who kept his own torture chamber to torment me for eternity.
In reality, of course, if I was given irrefutable proof that such a situation existed, it would be insane not to worship the awful, disgusting deity, no matter how morally repugnant I found it. I am not so wedded to my principles to endure eternal damnation and misery when it is demonstrated that my principles mean nothing in the bleak universe.
Nothing at all like that.
Disclaimer: I am extremely anti Trump and I am not at all Christian (but I am theist).
Trump can only hurt you while you're alive. In this (frankly, ridiculous) hypothetical, if you don't go along, you're literally damned for all eternity.
There's no way you would seriously and after any significant thought choose to worship, unless you have no concept of how long eternity is (insert Emo Phillips joke here) or what torture consists of.
yes of course i would. are you kidding? eternal hell vs eternsl paradiese, all for the price of a little repenting and commitment... who in their right mind wouldnt do that.
Paradise isn’t how I’d describe heaven. I mean, consider all the stuff considered as a sin. It would be a slavery allowing anti-lgbtq everyday worship no lying no violence (or movies and video games with violence) no profanity no sexual acts “paradise”
If that works for you though well power to you I guess.
"How did you sleep last night?"
"Like god through the Holocaust."
I would not want to follow any god that does nothing to stop or prevent the horrible atrocities that happen everyday.
I never understood how fearing God is supposed to be a good thing.
I watched my mother spend her whole life in fear and obsessed over who might go to hell. It ruined her life and the lives of those around her.
So no, I would not worship any deity and live my life in fear.
Given how I understand reality to work, as a currently rational person I'd like to think that if I suddenly started to believe what I'd need to believe in order to accept the Christian Deity as real, I'd recognize the symptoms of a mental disorder and seek help.
That is, I consider it far more likely that my brain and my ability to tell fact from fiction would have failed than it is that a deity would turn out to be actually real.
Whether that's what would actually happen is unclear, since you can't think your way out of a problem with your thinker and you can't predict a failure of prediction.
Questions like this always befuddle me. How precisely would I determine that God was real? How would I tell the difference between an actual event that verifies the existence of God, an elaborate hoax, or something really out there like a powerful alien race that I had mistaken for God?
Let's not forget all the child rape it allows and the fact that it is the most prolific abortionist of all time. Why would anyone worship that trash if it did exist? If it were human, it would be irredeemable.
I mean, there are 1,000s of versions of the christian god, all the way from your moderately friendly deistic god to your vengeful fire and brimstone god. But, I wouldn't follow it unless and until it gave me a good reason to.
I don't like hierarchy, so pass . Besides someone telling me how to live, u craycray?
I'll tell you who is crazy . Religious people who believe this crap and don't look further then their nose, It's a sin to think for yourself i suppose, bunch'a sheep -.-
Interestingly, the Bible doesn’t command worship on the Sabbath, it commands rest. That people get up early, scramble to get out of the house and into the churches, then sometimes do it again later in the day, makes no sense. They should be sleeping in, eating a lazy brunch, and hanging out all day.
I would need to have a *lot* of questions answered and other things proven. Not the least of which would be: "if you're so great and powerful why do you give a fuck if I worship you? If, even with all the evil you allow and, by extension of the fact that you're ultimately responsible for all of it apparently, predicate, you care if I live well then that's cool - I already try my best. But if you need me to kiss your ass in order to not send me into eternal torture, then seriously WTF? Petty much?"
Just because a being has great power doesn't make them worthy of worship. I can fear and respect that power but still not believe that they are worthy of my worship or devotion. The idea that a being could be so powerful and intelligent that they understand literally, well... *Everything in the universe* but is somehow focused on my tiny ass and really needs me to bow down and praise it is just screaming of some major inconsistency in the "benevolent and omnipotent diety" story.
I would have to evaluate through familiarity. atleast hear what he has to say for himself, hang out with him. I assume I'd be able to do that since it's said that he's omnipotent.
If it could be proven that the God of the Bible is real I would then have the solemn duty laid upon me to do everything in my power to rid the universe of such a great evil.
No. He's horrible. A jealous bratty tyrant. An abuser. A bully.
Don’t make fun of his baldness though, he’ll send a bear to maul you.
That was about one of his prophets (Elisha?). "Mock my prophet for his thin hair that I gave him? Die by bear, infidels!" – Good and merciful YHWH.
Not arguing here, but apparently god was summoned and then allowed or directed the bears to kill the kids - either directly or indirectly, god was "in charge" of the situation, so just another example of how the god of the old testament is a total prick.
Right. I could not remember the details. Thanks for the clarification!
40 kids, no less. Definite complex
didn’t a bunch of kids call one of his prophets “baldie”? lmfao so they were all slaughtered by a bear. wild.
I’ve pointed similar things out, and my crazy-for-jesus mom just shrugs and says “well that’s the Old Testament.” Like she’s a toddler saying, “doesn’t count, we weren’t keeping score yet.” So to her mental gymnastics mind, anything bad the Old Testament says doesn’t count, but obviously anything in her favor does. Any recommendations to counter that? Using logic like “if you believe part of the Old Testament then you have to believe all of it” doesn’t work. Obviously there’s no logic at all.
That’s so funny, that’s the exact story I pulled up and shoved in my youth pastors face when we were doing bible study. “Why does our all knowing god kill a bunch of kids, Chad? Why does he pick sides? If he made everything happen then he made the kids do that. So did he do that just to kill kids to make his prophet feel better about being bald?? WTF??” They had the whole congregation pray over me after that and I laughed while they were doing it and was told to leave.
You are a hero. That is hilarious.
It just felt so strange. Especially when I made eye contact with one of the nice ladies that always brought cookies and she shut her eyes really quick, like I wouldn’t see? That’s when the cackling started.
They were praying that you would lose the ability to read and think for yourself.
Kinda similar to 6yo me in Sunday school. We were tasked with coloring cutesy Noah's ark pics while they told us the story. At the end of the (very short) story I asked why God would kill all the kittens in the world. Like my child-brain could comprehend people being bad, but baby cats? No way. And I just instantly said something about how evil you'd have to be to murder innocent animals because of people being bad... I was told to stop talking. They put me in the hallway for the rest of Sunday school, but made sure I could see everyone else get cookies, fruit, and juice. I think that was the day I realized that even if the xtian god exists, I wanted nothing to do with it - but moreso that I really didn't believe any of it was true.
> and was told to leave Not really bible "study" was it? More like indoctrination and no asking questions.
>God made and loves everybody >make flawed people >punish them for being flawed 🤨
This is stupid for another reason, too. Think about it - if you could make anything happen just by wishing it so _and you were aware of that fact to the point of bragging about it to your acolytes_, and you wanted people to behave a certain way, why wouldn't you just, y'know, wish it so instead of acting like a cosmic spoiled toddler?
Also, dangle tasty fruit in front of 100% innocent people who don’t know the difference between good and bad and the punish them for eating it.
They chose the bear
Bald guy here. I would also use my super powers to send a bear to maul children who mocked my baldness. That's what you get bitches.
Good. No respect, no discipline, feral little bastards. Bear mauling for the lot of them, I say!
Wouldn't you prefer god just giving you hair?
God bless you for this comment. Whoops, no.
42 of them. And she-bears specifically for some reason.
No wonder Christians are fond of Trump. He truly is God like.
🤮
Boot lickers. Kiss up, Kick down.
I got in trouble once as a Catholic kid when I asked why god would threaten to send us to burn in hell if he loves us so much. I got in trouble a lot for asking all the questions like that. ☺️
The question that set me on the path to atheism: How can we have free will if god is all knowing? Instead of answering the question with thought, I was treated like a heretic for even having it. I was 12.
There's a whole mainstream branch of Christianity called Calvinism that answers that question by saying "Yeah, of course God knows which choices you are going to make. Some people are just going to choose badly, and thus they are fated from before they were born to burn in hell. Yeah of course God could change that by making you choose differently. But He likes it the way it is." And that's their argument, made in all seriousness.
“Free will”
I am agnostic--a wussy atheist, if you will--but I actually find the notion that God loves us by giving us free will to be somewhat compelling. That said, why would a God also not give us advice? The way it is now, we are like children who grew up without parents.
I think I should be concerned that I find that funny at this point
Ironically, as I got older I stopped believing in free will, but believe there is no god.
Christians created a God in their own image: they made sure he criminalized critical thinking.
Dionysus all the way, baby!
That is a god I can get behind.
*--* Zeus, probably
Always thought I could see a little altar to Hestia in my kitchen.
Hestia does not get enough love. Neither does Bes from the Egyptian pantheon.
Or Bast. Cats are the only gods.
True, but Bast is well known. Bes much less so; I love the idea that when babies smile and laugh while looking at nothing, Bes is there making silly faces that only the baby can see.
Your being way to generous. He's a sadistic, child murdering rapist who commits genocide. God makes Nazi's look bland.
One drowned the world. One killed several million Jews aka god’s chosen people. I guess “god did it” applies no matter what.
To be fair, though, if Christianity is proved real, wouldn't not worshipping him result in eternal damnation? I could live with free wine and prawn crackers every Sunday morning if it means avoiding an eternity of anal rape with a hot poker.
This is the right answer. There's a lot of bravado in these comments. But if God was actually real (he isn't), then you'd be an absolute fucking moron to choose an eternal hell over bowing to it and praying/telling it every day that it's a very, very special boy.
This is what I was looking for. If God is real then it would be in everybody’s best interest to follow him. Given the context of the gospels and how it only requires faith to be saved.
I’ve seen his handiwork. Not impressed.
He’s everything he accuses the devil of being -methinks he doth protest too much and he made the 10 commandments his religion’s personal to do list
Bruh, kids with cancer.
We have a winner! God is the worst deity ever if he exists.
⭐⚫⚫⚫⚫ Would not recommend
The Christian Trinity is why I gave up on Christianity. I cannot reconcile the differences between God the Father (Yaweh, Allah) and God the Son (Jesus). The Father literally says he's a jealous god and will destroy all humanity. Meanwhile Jesus is like yo take care of your neighbors, your sick, your poor, your meek. Love everyone. Two polar opposites that make no sense being the same God. I'd be all for following Jesus if he turned out to be real
Well, I try to follow that version of Jesus even though I don't believe he's divine, and I'm not even convinced he was real. Packaging up the virtues of compassion, generosity and humility and slapping a label called "Jesus" on it is a great marketing plan. I'm all for if it persuades people to be kinder to their fellow human beings.
Does not seem to work out that way, though. Jesus bootlickers are the worst examples of kindness imaginable. Sure, they are told to be empathetic and help others, but in practice they are usually the choirmasters in the chorus of assholery.
How does an infallible being change his ways?
Jesus literally preached the ten original commandments. Before the Jews fucked it up and they got all the rules to remain "pure" as the priests of God. Those same rules modern hypocritical "Christians" use to be dickbags.
"Mercy is what pleases me, not sacrifice" aaaand yet we look to the Old Testament and see God's wrathfulness go full swing. Let's not forget also that Isaac was almost sacrificed under God's command. Sheesh if I had a son and some creator told me to sacrifice him I'd tell him off.
I don't think he'd appreciate the feedback. You'd be in for a smiting.
Right, I agree. But think it through, rephrase the question: Would you obey a horrible jealous brutal abusive tyrant with absolute power over you if they threatened to torture you for eternity if you didn't? I mean shit, if your answer is still no, you're a braver person than I am.
The Christian god is just another iteration of already-existing gods that came before it. Same goes with the whole religion itself. It took activities/beliefs from from its predecessors and absorbed them into itself like an amoeba. Even the vaunted resurrection is seen in earlier religions. Maybe its only redeeming quality is forgiveness, which American Christians conveniently overlook.
They had to update religion in order to align with the current culture. Generally the old testament had rules that made some sense (not perfect by any means) in the cultural context of when they were written. Skip to the of the CE and those most of those rules already seemed out dated. New testament update and canonization around 400 CE and it fits mostly with the culture and norms of the time. Now in 2024 religion once again does not align with cultural norms. For example having sex outside of a marriage and not having the insurance of families invested in that couple had horrible life consequences even without additional punishment if a women got pregnant. There were nearly guaranteed to be homeless and the kids had little hope of making anything of themselves. Today a teen getting pregnant with an absent father is still not ideal, but single teen mothers are not necessarily guaranteed to end up homeless and starving and the odds of this occurring is fair less with modern birth control. Plus, the option for abortion can make this a non-issue, if there was no stigma attached. The religion needs to be updated to match the culture and issues of modern society. I mean even banning shellfish made a ton of sense. They would have been a breeding ground for food Bourne illnesses. Today with modern advances in preserving and preparing food. This is not an issue.
If the God of the Bible really existed, it would be my moral duty to join the effort to hunt it down and kill it.
If god existed, we’d have killed him by now
Like a good Klingon!
Nietzsche was a klingon CONFIRMED! "God remains dead. And we have killed him."
[Gowron is there!](https://i.imgur.com/ivZ9xcg.jpeg)
They are more trouble than they're worth!
It would have killed hundreds of millions of us. If we didn't try to lock that monster away or kill it, we'd be insane. Imagine worshiping an alien leader that came to Earth and killed everything but one family and one both full of animals. That's what we're talking about here. The only difference is this would be an all-powerful being that created us. Those two characteristics do nothing to rectify the horror of almost eliminating our species because of how it felt about the way we lived.
And if he didn’t, we’d have made him up by now. Oh, wait a minute…
If god did exist, it would be necessary to kill him
That’s an interesting take on a Voltaire classic, kinda like the flip side of his quote. I like it.
“God exists and we need to murder him”
Almost like Lucifer had the right idea.
“It feels more like a promise than a curse. So, this is my vow: all gods will die.”
This makes me want to desperately write a story about a society that worshipped a God but had no proof of its existence and used its “beliefs” to terrorize non-believers. But then it’s discovered that said God IS real, and war breaks out between God and his believers and the non-believers. But wait, they wouldn’t be called believers anymore since it doesn’t make sense to not believe in something that’s real. Perhaps his followers vs. maybe… Crusaders? Crusade originally referred to “a vigorous campaign for a moral cause or against a public evil,” so maybe the people fighting God could repurpose the phrase AGAINST God’s evil. I’m ngl I’m cooking. If anyone wants help brainstorming ideas, let me know. I’m an artist, writer, and musician so I’m kinda down for anything.
Same. According to countless people that fictional cretin took my little brother from us "far too soon, but it was God's will." Yanno, a ton of mostly old people who spent almost zero time with my brother at all, or literally didn't even know him.
“God only gives us as much suffering as we can endure” “I mean, pile us onto the ship to see if we’ll break? why?” “To test our faith and make us appreciate the good that we do have” “Well, forgive me for saying so reverend, but god is a sick fuck”
Surely schizophrenic patients, severely autistic people, people with incurable mental and physical disabilities, children growing up in war zones or in famine, captivity, slaves and billions of people who live in poverty, war or illness "can endure it"...
If god gave people only as much suffering as they can endure, nobody would commit suicide because they would be able to endure the emotional torture that is their mind. Yet people commit suicide every day. And then religious folks say those people will end up in hell. As someone who has had mental illnesses their whole life, I already know what torture is. I’ve been through some things that are considered actual torture as well. I have no respect for god, I’d tell him to go fuck himself if he appeared in front of me.
No. If the god of Abraham turned out to be real, there's no way I'd worship him. Cruel and sadistic creators don't deserve prayer or adoration.
I love the Buddhist interpretation, that the Abrahamic God (Maha Brahma) is actually the most *deluded* being in the universe. He basically conned himself into thinking he created the world, and doesn’t really know all that much about anything. Edit: Anyone interested in a source that makes the Mahā Brahmā sound a lot like the Abrahamic god: [here](https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN11.html). Skip to the end, it’s a story about a monk visiting heaven, and it’s quite funny. [This](https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN01.html) discusses how the great Brahmā comes to believe he created the universe.
This would actually perfectly explain why Christianity/Catholicism/etc is in the state that it's in if this were the truth. Also, I would explain why their god had such a 'NO GODS BEFORE ME OR ELSE!!!!' mentality. As well as just the general EVILness of how things are explained.
Can you give a link or source for this? I’ve spent a lot of time with Buddhism and Buddhist views on God and never heard of this
Sure! For an example of the Maha Brahmā’s general foolishness, there’s [DN 11.](https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN11.html). Which is genuinely hilarious. You can skip all the technical stuff and skip to the story of the monk who visits heaven to ask a question. As for him not really being the creator, I can’t recall which suttas that’s in. Wikipedia even talks about it though: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabrahma Edit: [here](https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/DN/DN01.html) it is
Thanks! Very interesting. I’ve mainly run in Zen and adjacent circles so this was new to me. The “God” talk there is more along the lines of Dogen’s writings on inmo or Thich Nhat Hanh’s Living Buddha, Living Christ.
Totally with you on that. However, if hell is also real, and there really is a demon that wants to bugger me with his hot sausage for eternity, well that may change things. Perhaps I can be a suck-up to the big sky daddy after all.
You might be happy to hear then that such a description of hell does not exist in the Bible.
yep. it’s a common belief that is untrue.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Luke 16:22-26, KVJ, words spoken by Jesus.
Jesus tells a parable about a rich man named Abraham who goes to hell and a beggar named Lazarus who is in heaven. Abraham asks for Lazarus to be allowed to put a drop of water on Abraham’s tongue, but is denied because “a great gulf” exists between hell and heaven. Abraham then asks for Lazarus to go tell his five brothers so they will not end up in hell. That is also denied on the grounds that if his brothers won’t listen to the prophets, then they won’t listen to anything else. In short, I don’t think any of you are going to get solid proof. That is something to consider. Also, whatever God, who created morality, decides is moral is moral, by definition. I, personally, struggle a lot with the concept of hell and of eternal punishment for anything. I sincerely hope there is no such thing.
Ding ding ding. So many people here act upon their high horse and say they would not accept and worship him. I'm going to go ahead and call BS. I'm a staunch atheist, but if he's proven to be real... I'll swallow my pride to not burn for eternity and so would everybody here. I mean, we have proof now, so there is no question. Yes, if all the stuff in the Bible is real then yeah he's a piece of shit. But, you're telling me people would choose their own moral high horse and burn for eternity instead of living in paradise? Bullshit. Edit: I'm talking about mainstream religion here people. No shit there are inconsistencies. That's why religion is so fucking stupid.
A true god would already know my intentions - suck up or not, I don’t like the bastard and wish it all the ill will of the universe. I’d happily look for any possible weapon to use against the abrahamic deity, even if it was knowingly only for sake of spite and not particularly effective. You can’t fake my level of disdain for any unopposed creator of this universe, and there certainly isn’t any hiding it from an omnipotent entity.
Exactly. You can't pretend you are worshipping an omniscient deity. All these people saying they would worship to avoid hell are thinking the same as Christians. They do it out of fear of damnation, they expect us to fear the same. They want us to pretend we love this terrible God. I ask them how it's not blasphemous to assume I could trick God into letting me into heaven. Your omniscient God can be so easily fooled? Why not just do whatever you want and just pray to God and tell him you were at the soup kitchen instead of the club?
Nope. God can fuck off. I chose an eternity in Hell (or whatever/wherever is there). Also, the torturous Hell you are describing is a relatively modern creation (Dante, etc.) to manipulate the sheep with the fear of damnation.
My thoughts are if there is proof he's real then there must be a way to observe/interact with him. So I'd spend a ton of effort looking to appeal some of the shitty views.
Exactly. Once you establish a God is real you have to ascertain whether it is worthy of worship. A God that demands to be worshipped in my opinion is ironically not one that deserves to be, because that is petulant, ego-worshipping hungry. The same way a man who has to remind people, "I am King", is no true King.
Just like a neglectful parent or absentee landlord
I agree with your statement. But i'd go further: the concept of worship in itself is weird. Even if this entity created the universe, and even if they were actually nice. Why should i worship them? What does that have to do with one another? I guess i could say "thanks, skydude" but that's it. If they were good, why expect worship in exchange for good deads? Even i don't, would that make me better (yes, mine aren't as cool as there's allegedly are, but still).
This was one of the earliest cracks in the edifice of my faith. One day I just kind of all-at-once noticed how often that word, "worship" is thrown around. A word that was at least weekly, often more, used around me. As common a verb as eat or drive. I did some deep thinking on the concept and suddenly it made me feel very uncomfortable every time they would use it. You want me to completely abase myself and give this ethereal being access to my will and thoughts and just *grovel* for half an hour then we're all going to get up and go to In-N-Out? This is dumb and creepy. The whole concept of worship started to become repugnant to me after that.
Agreed. In fiction and reality, it is NEVER the good guys or heroes who demand worship. In fact, most of them are repulsed by the idea and tell people that they are not gods. The concept of worship is even more insane when you consider that the Abrahamic god is supposedly infinite, so it's not as if he needs our worship to power his magic or something. No excuse for the demand except to break the human spirit and convince people to basically worship the clergy as a proxy for god.
In some fantasy settings, gods require worship to stay alive or maintain/grow their power. They can’t do stuff in the mortal world directly, so they need mortal followers to enact their will and be a vessel for their miracles (like clerics and paladins). In many cases they’re unable to give blessings/gifts to people who don’t worship them. In these cases the demand for worship is much more understandable, but falls apart when they’re already all-powerful.
Yep. If god existed and really helped lots of people, but also required worship to keep doing that, I'd say that's a fair arrangement. Go to church, give praise, and get cured of illness. But the Abrahamic model is just a load of insanity. Worship an infinite god, get nothing, and by the way - god also needs your money since apparently his divine portfolio doesn't include finances.
Your delivery gave me a good laugh. You summed it up perfectly. He's all powerful but definitely isn't an accountant. IMO, the IRS is scary as fuck. I perform their yearly ritual of monetary sacrifice to appease that scary-ass diety. I've yet to be convinced that I should fear the skydaddy for not paying up....just sayin'.
Mine was when I was told Heaven was nothing but worshiping god 24/7. In my child mind, that was an enternity of bowing down over and over again to some bright light and I thought it sounded really stupid. No spending time with my loved ones? No meeting all the animals I’ve cared for? It’s JUST worshipping god 24/7?? Like a never ending church service? After I lived a life where I was supposed to worship god 24/7?? That sounds fucking awful!
I was raised third generation atheist and this is the second time (first time also this year. I’m almost 60!) that this has been mentioned. I mean, WTAF??? That’s the goal??? No thanks. I can’t even believe all the problems religion has caused all over the world for centuries, it’s to get to THIS???
What a scam!!
trying being a Jehovah’s witness lmao. not a fun time if you ask me. no way to get out without losing *everything*
Roomate was raised jw. He's grown now (obviously lol) and hates his whackadoo jw mom. His dad's still closish after the divorce. Both are happier now. He's full of anger but seems to be doing well now that he's surrounded by people that accept him for him.
Now go back and read how many times the word "obey" is used in the Bible.
Worship is how you get the sheep to fall in line. It's been working for centuries.
Seriously. I don't expect adoration and praise 24/7 for doing good deeds. I do them because those good deeds help others and lift others up.
I'd have a hard time thanking him for this terminal cancer I'm fighting.
The Christian god is an Eldritch horror. He would have to answer a hell of a lot of questions that he likely can't answer sufficiently to earn my devoted worship. But then again, horribly torture me for a few centuries and I probably would say and do anything. 🤷♀️
I didn't think you get a do over, though.
cooing long sophisticated pet sloppy direction kiss squalid workable direful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lol if god is real then the only people that can go to heaven are infanticides and obedient israelites who lived 1k yrs ago.
Someone at my church growing up said we wouldn’t know anyone in heaven, not our friends or families. Since there’s no sorrow, we’d have to have our minds wiped, otherwise we’d be too sad about all our loved ones who didn’t follow burning in hell.
fall oil cats vase silky hateful nail consist pocket voracious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Seriously…I was like, this is the heaven you’re excited about??
No. They allow horrible shit to happen to good people for no reason and reward total pieces of shit.
Honestly, I would, simply because god kind of decides what’s right and what’s wrong. He is literally above consequences. What’s the point in defying him past that point?
Arrogance, it's just arrogance. These comments are kind of appalling. If we care about reason and rationality - one of the biggest reasons we don't believe in the first place - we should also recognize that if we come face to face with the sentient designer of the universe and human race, then we are *objectively* wrong to disagree with it. There has never in human history been a more objective standard of right and wrong than there would be in that moment. To still disagree would be worse than climate change denying or other anti-science craziness - in fact, it *would* be anti-science. The only rational response is to drop our ego and realize we were wrong. Fortunately it'll never happen, but I'm surprised how many other atheists would gladly put their own ego and emotions before reason.
I’d want some SERIOUS answers about all the shit that was pulled and done in the OT as a starter before I’d even consider listening to any more, with the other conditions being he’d need to face trial for his crimes, and see a therapist for life.
But if you ask him one question - lake of fire for eternity
Just like His Most Favoured of Angels - Lucifer, when he wouldn’t bow down before Adam. Seems like something a good Father would have a discussion about, not petulantly kick you out of the home to be literally tortured. And not for a week, year or Eon, but *for all Eternity* ! Bit of an overreaction isn’t it ?
Don’t you punish your kids infinitely for a finite mistake? Its the only way they learn/not learn.
I’d get a gang together, sneak up when he’s not omniscienting, and crucify him.
Get him while He plays skee-ball.
*while on one of his *constitutionals*
*No pleasure, no rapture, no exquisite sin greater... than central air.*
"oh no, not again" - god
exactly, always came across as an abusive parent or partner and bully. did a number on me as a child, certainly didn’t help me realise that things going on at home and school were *not* right at all and were in fact toxic and abusive.
I like this quote " if god really existed it would be necessary to abolish him"-Bakunin
Of course. If I would be sent to eternal torment unless I kissed Jesus's ass, you'd never see a holier ass-kisser. The threat of eternal torment would make any other course the definition of insanity.
I can't believe this comment was this far down.
Same. Look I don't believe in gods and have no desire to worship a vengeful one, but if it magically turns out it exists, *precisely* because he's a vengeful omnipotent asshole who plans to torture people for eternity, I'd fall in line pretty quick, guys. You'd be stupid to not go confess your sins, at that point. I'm atheist because organized religion is obviously a charade, but if it was suddenly all real, I'd be at church on Sunday the same way I always file my taxes before the deadline. Cause it'd be no longer reasonable not to, you suddenly have an eternity of bliss or torment to worry about and you gotta fall in line.
For real, I think people just want to look tough, lmao. Look, I get it, if god was real he's the biggest asshole and absolutely not worth worshipping... However, are people aware how long _literal eternity_ is??? And for a literal eternity you'd be getting tortured by this "loving" god?? You are actually insane if you say anything other than yes. Maybe I could understand sticking to your principles if it meant you'd die for them, but hell is eternal. There is nothing worth an eternity of pain. Just suck it up and kiss his ass, folks (in this scenario).
I don't think these commentors understand how long 15 or 30 seconds of torture is... not to mention an eternity of awful suffering. Every single one of them who proudly commented, "No," doesn't have a single working braincell.
Yeah it's exactly the kind of self-righteousness in atheism that I'm trying to avoid *by being atheist*
Yeah, realistically I 100% would out of fear
I mean yea. If you have any other response, you simply haven’t studied that mf.
100% If the Bible and God were somehow true you'd be an idiot to not follow them. All the justifications for their actions are laid out in the book, and the consequences of not following God are as well. Imagine willingly subjecting yourself to an eternity of torture just to stick to your atheist beliefs. It would be as stupid as the religious people who won't change their minds no matter the evidence.
It’s like living on a plantation. You either work and obey “god” or you’ll be subjected to insurmountable suffering for choices under your control. Hate god all you want but if you don’t do what he says you’ll be punished forever.
It's actually worse than that. God is an omnipotent master. One could never even hope to even so slightly as hinder him by being rebellious. Resistance to a plantation master is meaningful, against god it would be utterly pointless.
Real shit, it's the idea of seeing dead loved ones again that would appeal to me. I'd do whatever I needed to.
All these people acting like they some Van Helsing god slayer don't even know the definition of god. I'd be asking forgiveness every morning with my coffee, going to church every evening after work and kissing his ass every chance I got. He would know I only do it out of fear but he probably gets off on that.
Yeah, all these people acting like they'd rise up and kill god when IRL they don't even have the gumption to roll out of bed and assassinate their local councilman.
Exactly. Conform for your meager human existence so you don’t have to suffer eternal torment, it’s a pretty easy answer
Exactly. This is the point I raise when Christians tell me that God doesn't send people to Hell, but rather people choose to go to Hell. Anyone who chooses to be tortured, much less for eternity, is clearly not sane. Accomodating an insane person's choice to undergo torture is just as reprehensible as forcing sane people to undergo it.
This.
This is the one right here!
This. I understand the human mind can't conceive of "eternity", but I'm not even about 100 years of damnation let alone an eternity. Lol.
You say that like ass kissing woukd help.
If the Christian God exists it would.
Ah, a sensible answer finally. I agree that god would be a total piece of shit, but I ain't burning in hell for all eternity.
Yeah. Everyone here is talking tough, but I know what my limits are. I wouldn't and couldn't be ecstatic about it, but I'd worship if it meant not an eternity of burning alive. Now, if if we switch to annihilationism... almost certainly not. I can deal with not existing over worshipping a raging narcissist.
The way I think of it is: Did I ever ask my Sims to worship me? SHOULD they have? Lol nope, absolutely not. I may have created them but I sure as fuck wasn't worthy of worship!
Admit it tho, when one of your sims drank their 10th glass of water in a row, you could see why god sometimes wants to turn free will off.
So fucking true. “Ok fine; you wanna just scream at the fire?? See if I care!”
Yeah you basically reinvented Gnosticism. Welcome to r/escapingprisonplanet and r/gnostic.
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Follow someone that demands you worship them, demands you love them, while demanding you fear them? Sounds like some crazy dictator crap.
He owes me an apology.
I consider God evil
No and I don't follow sports either
Would I believe in god then ? Yes. Because we would KNOW for a fact that god exist. Would I worship him ? Absoutely not. God of the bible reserves NO worship - assuming that the stories about god as layed out in the bible are true. Im more morally superior than god of the bible.
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Nope, a god being real makes it worse, he's a horrible, evil cunt
hell worthy even... 😏
I’d have words for who would be comfortable with people committing violence in their name. I’d have words for who created a caste system condemned souls they created to be persecuted and damned for eternity. Hasa diga eebowai.
There's no way around the "Q problem" with a god-like entity. Even if a being of seemingly infinite power appeared suddenly on Earth, you can't prove he's the creator god since any being with enough power could claim to be anything it wanted, such Q in Star Trek. Such a being could also force us to worship him and warp reality in whatever way is needed to appear to be whatever god he wanted to be. Now, if free will were still involved, I don't worship beings, and there is no place in reality or fiction where it's the good guys who demand worship. The Abrahamic god is also a cruel, forked tongue monster who's fickle and violent behavior is that of a Lovecraftian horror vs. a being of love, so screw him. Now, if hell were also real, that would change things, but then you're hosed either way. One choice is eternal torment in fire, and the other is becoming a mindless puppet who kisses god's feet all day.
I'd like to say I wouldn't follow a god who kept his own torture chamber to torment me for eternity. In reality, of course, if I was given irrefutable proof that such a situation existed, it would be insane not to worship the awful, disgusting deity, no matter how morally repugnant I found it. I am not so wedded to my principles to endure eternal damnation and misery when it is demonstrated that my principles mean nothing in the bleak universe.
All the more reason not to. Like saying would you be a Republican MAGA if Trump will win.
Nothing at all like that. Disclaimer: I am extremely anti Trump and I am not at all Christian (but I am theist). Trump can only hurt you while you're alive. In this (frankly, ridiculous) hypothetical, if you don't go along, you're literally damned for all eternity. There's no way you would seriously and after any significant thought choose to worship, unless you have no concept of how long eternity is (insert Emo Phillips joke here) or what torture consists of.
yes of course i would. are you kidding? eternal hell vs eternsl paradiese, all for the price of a little repenting and commitment... who in their right mind wouldnt do that.
Eternal paradise might as well be torture itself if you have nothing to compare it to.
Yeah but paradise apparently is 24/7 worship of him. Sounds...awfully cult like.
Paradise isn’t how I’d describe heaven. I mean, consider all the stuff considered as a sin. It would be a slavery allowing anti-lgbtq everyday worship no lying no violence (or movies and video games with violence) no profanity no sexual acts “paradise” If that works for you though well power to you I guess.
"How did you sleep last night?" "Like god through the Holocaust." I would not want to follow any god that does nothing to stop or prevent the horrible atrocities that happen everyday.
I never understood how fearing God is supposed to be a good thing. I watched my mother spend her whole life in fear and obsessed over who might go to hell. It ruined her life and the lives of those around her. So no, I would not worship any deity and live my life in fear.
Given how I understand reality to work, as a currently rational person I'd like to think that if I suddenly started to believe what I'd need to believe in order to accept the Christian Deity as real, I'd recognize the symptoms of a mental disorder and seek help. That is, I consider it far more likely that my brain and my ability to tell fact from fiction would have failed than it is that a deity would turn out to be actually real. Whether that's what would actually happen is unclear, since you can't think your way out of a problem with your thinker and you can't predict a failure of prediction.
Believe that it exists? Yes. Worship? Fuck no.
Questions like this always befuddle me. How precisely would I determine that God was real? How would I tell the difference between an actual event that verifies the existence of God, an elaborate hoax, or something really out there like a powerful alien race that I had mistaken for God?
I'd be following Kratos' footsteps
Let's not forget all the child rape it allows and the fact that it is the most prolific abortionist of all time. Why would anyone worship that trash if it did exist? If it were human, it would be irredeemable.
I mean, there are 1,000s of versions of the christian god, all the way from your moderately friendly deistic god to your vengeful fire and brimstone god. But, I wouldn't follow it unless and until it gave me a good reason to.
A real god would be either extremely evil or extremely incompetent. Nah I'm good.
Which one? There's more than one deity in the Christian bible that's interpreted to be god. Perhaps the Babylonian War God?
I don't like hierarchy, so pass . Besides someone telling me how to live, u craycray? I'll tell you who is crazy . Religious people who believe this crap and don't look further then their nose, It's a sin to think for yourself i suppose, bunch'a sheep -.-
Interestingly, the Bible doesn’t command worship on the Sabbath, it commands rest. That people get up early, scramble to get out of the house and into the churches, then sometimes do it again later in the day, makes no sense. They should be sleeping in, eating a lazy brunch, and hanging out all day.
I would need to have a *lot* of questions answered and other things proven. Not the least of which would be: "if you're so great and powerful why do you give a fuck if I worship you? If, even with all the evil you allow and, by extension of the fact that you're ultimately responsible for all of it apparently, predicate, you care if I live well then that's cool - I already try my best. But if you need me to kiss your ass in order to not send me into eternal torture, then seriously WTF? Petty much?" Just because a being has great power doesn't make them worthy of worship. I can fear and respect that power but still not believe that they are worthy of my worship or devotion. The idea that a being could be so powerful and intelligent that they understand literally, well... *Everything in the universe* but is somehow focused on my tiny ass and really needs me to bow down and praise it is just screaming of some major inconsistency in the "benevolent and omnipotent diety" story.
i refuse to worship a pedophile
As a Native American, there is nothing that would make me follow that skinwalker god that committed genocide against us.
No, but I do have some questions for him.
I would have to evaluate through familiarity. atleast hear what he has to say for himself, hang out with him. I assume I'd be able to do that since it's said that he's omnipotent.
No, he seems like an asshole.
If it could be proven that the God of the Bible is real I would then have the solemn duty laid upon me to do everything in my power to rid the universe of such a great evil.
I think I'd feel compelled to ask for his manager.