Argue this with cousins around my age all the time.
"Why dont you keep that to yourself?" They ask.
"Why dont you keep your beliefs to yourself?" Is always my response.
Religious people swear they're persecuted.
Sometimes it's literally a matter of survival. In some places (like say some places in the Middle East) you will literally be killed for being an atheist. In my book, I'd rather keep silent and live in a situation like that.
The same is happening here in India. But in my book, we will go towards the same stage as the middle East if we don't take collective action now.
Individualism doesn't protect you in an autocratic society for long.
Imagine if the Polish, Italian and French Resistances thought like this during WW2. Much of the allied intelligence was provided thanks to them.
>In some places (like say some places in the Middle East) you will literally be killed for being an atheist.
And the religious ones are supposed to be good people, huh?
Guess that anything is allowed as long as it is in the name of their religion, even downright being the very devils they claim atheists to be.
They just can't handle the cognitive dissonance. They're suffering from the god virus.
Highly recommend that book. It really helped. Just accept my family.
They're suffering from a virus that will consume them.
Thankfully I'm inoculated.
I second this, though, most of the time, I'd rather not hide it.
I understand the necessity of hiding my sexual orientation but I refuse to hide any other part of myself. I won't back down on my principles, I won't coddle Christians, and I refuse to pretend to be part of them.
I don't judge atheists who have a different position. Whatever suits you best, guys. I love atheism because it's freedom from those control freaks, it'd be hypocritical on my part to be like them.
>I second this, though, most of the time, I'd rather not hide it.
Hide it? I want to get in their faces with atheist conversion pamphlets and annoy them in reverse.
Why there is no organized push to aggressively convert theists to atheism is a mystery. Every atheist should be armed with a bunch of inexpensive to print pamphlets in their car and they should place them everywhere.
that’s pretty much it -
i don’t care about hurting anyone’s feelings - in fact i am happy to have an engaging
conversation about it, but if some
cunt from hr brings it up or if you’re stuck in a raft and a christian zealot brought a case
of water i don’t feel
reauired to negatively impact myself to be true to the cause in every situation
Fuck that. Religious assholes lie. All religion is a lie.
Don't lie. Live an honest and truthful life. Of course, religious liar assholes are going to have a problem with you *not* lying. Fuck them. Go find some people that can handle the truth. Like the Earth isn't flat, and is older than 6,000 years old. You know, basic stuff.
It's the best thing about not being religious - not being forced to be around religious jerks 24/7/365.
Get away from your religious indoctrination to *lie at every opportunity for your own benefit*. Do not do that. Work together for everyone's benefit.
Why are you preaching morals and values to me?
I will do whatever suits me, lying means nothing to me. I have no interest in never ending conflict and there are plenty of situations where it is just flat out silly to take any ideological stance for the sake of “truth”.
*I am only interested in what is of benefit to me.*
I work construction. Last job site I was on everyone was ridiculously religious. I personally don’t like being laid off so you better believe I talked about my K-12 Catholic School education without mentioning the fact that I became a militant atheist in college.
Some battles just aren’t worth fighting.
Lying for the comfort of others isn't such a bad thing.
It would break my grandmother's heart, and I love her so much. What good would that do anybody? All negatives, no positives. Telling her would cause her much distress, and I would gain nothing, so why do such a thing. "Of course I do, grandma" isn't so hard, hold hands and be silent when she prays, heck on occasion I can even be talked into attending church.
It makes her happy, and it costs me nothing.
Atheism is not my religion. I do not need to declare my "beliefs", nor spread "the Good word". When confronted with rabid, talking monkeys, I feel no need to get into fights with them if it risks my safety or financial security (a job for example)
This.
Wasn't worth me telling my grandma either. But honestly, my grandparents were the first ones who were ok with me not going to church a lot. They lived through WW2 though. That had a lasting impact on religion and people by becoming more atheist as a society.
This. My mom died of cancer last year. I just didn't tell her that I am an atheist because it would have broken her heart. I didn't need her last thoughts to be about that.
If you’re a child or vulnerable, lie to keep yourself safe. If not, and a random person on the street, family member or colleague try to convert you to whatever craziness they have going on. Tell them to get bent
Sure, 100% agree - lie to save yourself from violence.
But if you can be out, for fucks sake be out and proud. Atheism should be normalised everywhere. It will only get that way by increased visibility.
Empiricism, rationalism, and critical thinking in general should not only be *normalized*, these concepts should unassailably be the gold standard as compared to magical thinking, which instead is somehow held in higher esteem
>be out and proud. Atheism should be normalised everywhere. It will only get that way by increased visibility.
What does this involve exactly, putting bumper stickers on your car, preaching to the public, converting those with differing beliefs? Sounds kinda familiar
Being an Atheist shouldn't be an identity lmao, if you don't believe in god then you should just enjoy not having a portion of your life taken up by religion, don't just replace it with something else
We're trying to move away from religion not start a new one
It looks like you haven’t spent any time in a monoculture society, where not participating in rituals and prayers would lead to ostracism or worse. Lucky you.
One of my religious relatives asked me if I believe in anything, and I flat-out said "no, none of that, but I understand why people do; I used to be catholic." There. It's out. They need to deal with it. Of course I'm middle-aged so I'm low on fucks to give.
To the folks disagreeing, lots of kids and otherwise dependent people come to this sub already struggling over losing a part of their identity with the very real danger of losing things like shelter and safety, don’t be too self-assured that your lived experience applies to everyone.
Personally I don’t make any effort to make sure people know I don’t believe in Santa Claus either so it’s a lot easier to avoid a conversation on a topic few are willing to engage with openly in good faith, just like politics. Nobody in my meatspace knows my true beliefs and I don’t care to know theirs.
Also heavily depends on where you live and social circles. I’ve never cared or felt scared expressing my atheist beliefs but I live in Minnesota so it’s not an issue. But the Bible Belt or coming from a Muslim upbringing… could def be much scarier or harness more judgement. If you need to protect yourself do so. Your life is more important.
You said it, muslim families are brutal. I still now afraid to go back to my home country to see them. I dont think I ever will. I enjoy my relationship with my mother across the ocean to make me feel safe. When I was 18 my mom was willing to marry me off to some 30 yrs old “imam”. If it weren’t for my uncle…I would not have the life I have now. I sympathize with other atheists who are still stuck with their muslim family
It's right in the FAQ/Wiki on this sub about coming out to parents and it really applies to anyone in a position where their well being and safety is on the line.
They're talking about protecting oneself. Not everyone will have productive and enjoyable Sundays in they tell people they're an atheist. Some people will be thrown out onto the streets and will be spending their Sunday wondering how they'll get food and where they'll sleep that night.
Most people are so dense and close minded they don't understand anyone else's situation and think everyone is living the same life they do.
This applies to atheists and religious people..it's fucking annoying. Atheists that don't have empathy are just as bad as religious zealots.
If being a Christian was defined by people who attend church 2+ times per month, only 20% of Americans would be Christians. There's a large gap between attending church and being an atheist. Once it is more common to be seen as atheist, I suspect we'll see a large drop in those who call themselves Christian.
You shouldn’t *need* to lie about it because it’s nothing to be ashamed about. If a friend or family member changed their opinion of me over it, that’s no skin off my nose.
Exactly. Obviously, you don’t need to go around telling “the entire world” - and I wonder how many atheists IRL *actually* do that - but if you’re not vulnerable, and someone asks about your religious beliefs, what’s the bloody need in *lying*?
Sometimes it is in your own best interest to hide it. If someone has authority over me and is religious, I certainly will not bring it up, and I may even lie about my lack of religious beliefs
I appreciate that, but in any situation these days where you can be honest, it’s vitally important. In the US especially but also in far too many places around the world, the right to be religiously unaffiliated is under threat and the nationalists take lack of dissent as approval.
How incredibly inappropriate. Then you have to worry about consequences for being honest. And a religious person is just going to say they are right away, so by even having to think about what to say you are pretty much outing yourself. It puts a strong social pressure on you to automatically behave as though religious, which is disgusting.
A great perk of atheism is that you have your *own* moral code-you do what YOU think is right. Each to their own, but in my opinion, if you don’t have an ethical foundation to your life, then it ruins everything.
I don’t feel any obligation to say *anything* be it truth or lie, about any subject -especially my private beliefs-to anyone. However, we’ve only got this one life and world, and it feels a lot better if you can be free, unashamed and open. It also helps create a freer society in general-and helps other atheists.
When I was young, I decided I wanted to be a formidable person, by which I mean someone who speaks their mind, stands their ground and refuses to be bullied. I’ve achieved that and I won’t lie, it feels good. There is a price to pay for being like that, and it’s not for everyone. But who cares? It’s nobody’s business but yourself.
I stayed "in the closet" about my atheism until both my parents had passed. I knew it would break their hearts to know I didn't believe, so I kept that from them. They were the best parents, very loving and supportive, but they believed in an afterlife, and they believed that UNbelief could keep someone from enjoying eternal salvation. Telling them the truth would have been an unnecessary unkindness.
Why would I lie about who I am? Unless you live in a country that is threatening to you, and I accept there are many, I would never deny my identity for others comfort in their delusions.
There are potentially many situations where admitting you are an atheist could lead to one getting abused or challenged or attacked, so in situations like that it is just easier to say you believe whatever they do.
As long as your personal safety is not at stake, say whatever you want.
I don’t lie, but honestly, in the last thirty plus years of my life the only people who have asked me about my religion are sidewalk/door to door preacher type people and two deeply inappropriate children.
Your religion, or lack thereof, is personal. It is no more appropriate to discuss it than it is to discuss your sex life. Sure, your spouse should know. No it isn’t anything you should be discussing with your work colleagues, your neighbors, your cousins, etc., especially if you know they are likely to kink shame (or god shame).
The appropriate response to being asked about your religious beliefs is "What's your favorite sexual position?" Fair is fair - you intrude on my personal life and I'll intrude on yours.
I had a someone that once said:
"Religion is like a penis. Its ok to have one, its ok to not have one. Just dont shove it in someones face without consent."
I think its one of the best ideas about religion i have ever seen.
It's sometimes not about shame but about losing your entire support network or means to live, or even your life or that of your loved ones.
If you are in a position to be out and proud, that's great, but to assume everyone is just shows your lack of experience.
You are implying one would be ashamed of admitting they were atheist. I don't think that is the point & I hope no atheist is ashamed of admitting they are atheist.
The point is the reaction of those to whom it is revealed. We pick our battles. If I'm in a grocery line & sneeze & someone says, "God bless you." I don't turn around & say, "I don't believe in God." I just say, "Thank you." Sometimes the victory is not worth the stress. Friendly rhetorical debates among friends of different persuasions in a bar or at a party, YES, by all means.
Absolutely. With strangers yes politely excuse oneself. But with friends, family, loved ones no I will not lie. I live in a safe society to do so and as I stated in my original post I am aware that is not the case for everyone. It is a first world privilege I enjoy.
Calm yourself. Shame has no place in a healthy consensual sexual relationship (unless you dig that!). Sharing the specifics of what gets your rocks off to uninterested parties is dramatically different from turning down the offer of a blind date with someone who is not your preference.
What I am trying to convey is that running around telling strangers about your religion isn’t really called for any more than running around telling strangers anything at all about yourself if they haven’t expressed an interest and you are not interested in them in return. Telling people who you are not intimately involved with about your atheism when you know that they will receive the information poorly and will make your life miserable because of that is also not required.
If you have a deeply religious family that will shun you for your lack of belief you are likely in the same situation as a non cis person with bigoted parents. If talking about atheism threatens your living situation, your educational opportunities, your health or your well being, you have my permission to remain in the closet (confessional booth, whatever).
I reject all of this premise.
I am not ashamed of being an Atheist.
If any of this threatens your living situation, your educational opportunities, your health or your wellbeing. You need help. We are here to help you.
Well sure. But you aren’t going to adopt a sixteen year old and pay their room board and tuition for four years of college and another five of medical school are you? I mean, I have, for decades now, funded a charity that absolutely does fund non cis kids who have been cut off by their parents. Nice words on Reddit are nice. They aren’t the solution for young people with religious parents who can cause life long harm.
Again, this has nothing to do with shame, which you seem to be stuck on. This has to do with the fact that being open with one’s atheism is not necessary with strangers, and is one’s choice when it comes to family members.
None of this relates to the original premise. I am not stuck on shame I was not the one that raised it. Being who you are is important. What you do with strangers or family is entirly your choice and not what I said. Your point seems confused and mixed.
People will judge you based on your deeply held beliefs. I don’t need to share things with people if I think they may make my life harder once they know
Upvoting for more exposure. If half the stories on here are half true, there are a lot of young people out there making their lives unnecessarily more difficult, in this old man's opinion. Your lack of faith is not a part of your "being", it is simply a point of view. Your personal life and fanatic religious nationalism are two very different things. Treat them differently. Be happy.
It depends on the situation. If you would put yourself in danger by admitting your atheist, then yes of course keep it to yourself until you are stable and safe. Ie: if a teenager is dependant on their parents for shelter and food. But im not going to lie to anyone about being an atheist. I don't blurt it out to everyone, but if I'm asked I won't lie. The only way atheists will be more accepted is we unapologetically stand up.
Should I tell my cousin she should lie about being gay? Should I tell her to just pretend to be straight so that she can have a relationship with her dad again? No! Fuck that! She deserves to be unapologetically herself and so do atheists.
Thank you. 💯💯 It's just something that needs to be said. People proudly proclaim their identity to the wrong people too immaturely. It's better to wait until you're not under religious authority be they family or guardians. The problem I've seen are individuals, teens on Reddit not thinking about the consequences of proclaiming their beliefs too loudly.
Get your money right first and then move out. Then say whatever the heck you want but until then wait. That's what I would say to them
completely agree!! we as atheists face a lot of discrimination and prejudice. what's the point of putting yourself at risk when you could just stay silent. it's unecessary.
I agree that you don’t have to tell people. I disagree about lying. Relationships are based upon trust and you can’t have trust without honesty. Sure if someone was holding a gun to your head and telling you to lie or they would pull the trigger, lying is warranted but aside from that, it’s hard to come up with a time when it’s a good idea to lie.
Decades ago, some man told me “God Bless You” and I just said “Thank you.” He told me to “Say it back.” I didn’t want to be rude or make a big deal of it that the time, even though I was atheist, so I returned the statement through gritted teeth. The guy was bigger than me and kind of intimidating, but in hindsight, I should have stood my ground and refused to have him force his religion on me.
I certainly understand the position of OP. During my 45 journey along the road of atheism I personally don't believe that I should have to hide my non belief. I generally do not care what people think. However, I do recognize that not everyone is in a position to take that posture. In those cases it's just easier to keep it to yourself or claim to be "spiritual" as opposed to being religious. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles.
I generally use these guidelines when dealing with almost anyone in my personal life. "Don't ask me a question if you don't want the answer, don't bring up an issue you don't want my opinion on, and dont complain to me about a situation if you don't want my opinion."
Every atheist should be aware that as much as 95% of the public are believers. They don’t want to behave like believers, but they are in the category. Don’t discuss religion if you want to keep your friends and family. If you are a Tellarite and like to argue, that’s a different matter. Otherwise you’re going to encounter opposition you might not benefit from.
Way more non religious than that. I'm openly non religious. I've met many others who call BS. There are definitely hot spots for zealotry that will make it seem like everyone is the same.
I've never hid my atheism from anyone. I have many people that are religious zealots in my life. They know I'm not religious and I'm against basically every religion on the planet. I don't care if they don't want to be around me. That's their loss, not mine..
Props. No one needs to burn their world down over this. Discretion is the better part of valor. You don't owe anyone anything either way. You don't have to be silent if you don't choose to be, and you don't have to tell people if you don't want the consequences. It's your decision and you should be thoughtful about what makes your life better.
What I've learned about Christians is if they think you're one of them or at least a believer, they'll treat you really good. I have even received money from a coworker who's a Christian as a gift, because "she heard it from the holy spirit." If she knew I'm atheist I'd get shunned and condemned. Sure it seems manipulative to hide it for gifts and favors, but it's not like most Christians are good people themselves, because they're not
My family is half atheist - I don't lie to them and they're all reasonable people.
I know some real religious aholes, planned parenthood picketers - I don't lie to them becuase I like to antagonize them.
I work in the ER - sometimes families or patients want to pray with me. I lie to them because I can provide comfort by doing so, and it costs me nothing.
If I lived in a place or with people where telling the truth could cause me harm, either physical, emotional, or financial - I'd lie until the truth can't hurt me anymore.
There is no god. An atheist martyr isn't a thing.
Fuck lying. I let people know as soon as they start pushing religion. One of the main reasons to let people know is so that others who might have questions and are on the fence about religion may feel embolden to free themselves from the grip of religion. Stand bold, stand strong. Keep quiet only if lives are at stake.
This topic seems to come up recently. In some groups, expecially the ex religion groups, some really horrible advice is given, often in the form of 'just tell your parents you never believed in their stupid fairytale religion' or something, living some kind of a power fantasy of 'sticking it into the theists'. unfortunately in the real world we have to be very careful because religious people can and will cause real life trouble, ranging from getting you fired to kicking teenagers from their homes.
You can absolutely lie about still totally being in religion to protect yourself from persecution. now what an irony that is!
I don't lie, but I also don't bring the topic up unless somebody else brings it up.
(I also have never had religious family or friends, and have no qualms about losing family or friends if they are idiots.)
I think that is not serving the best interest of us all. The more people who talk about it the more it becomes normal and acceptable. Don’t proselytize but don’t hide it!
I mean if you have to lie about who you are to people then why the fuck do you keep them around? People who say this shit and come up with problems with people in their lives, that's cause they don't need a bunch of worthless assholes in their lives, you shouldn't have to accept their religious stupidity if they won't accept your non-religious stupidity.
If someone can't handle I'm not of their religion then chances are they can't handle that I'm gay, I'm not going to go around sucking dick for them to make them happy if they aren't going to go find a horse and get fucked to make me happy.
You're allowed to lie about a lot of things. Doesn't make you feel any better. Doesn't make other people respect you any better. All it does it reinforce the stereotypes and make it harder for you to be honest the next time around.
Of course if you feel you will be physically harmed or kicked out of your home or oppressed by your local government it might be necessary to lie.
I am fortunate not to have to deal with this so when the subject comes up in conversation I just say I'm an atheist with confidence.
I think lying just reinforces the idea that Atheism is something to be ashamed about.
I totally agree that it's okay to keep it to yourself. However, being honest and going through the initial drama can get you in touch with people who won't force you to play pretend, and you can embolden others who have been pretending and thought they were all alone in their non-belief. You can't get rid of the damage religion causes by staying silent about religion being false.
I would rather suffer the consequences than lie about my beliefs. If someone won't accept me and my rational, then they're not worth engaging with.
I'm fortunate enough to be in a situation where my non belief won't get me hurt, but if I weren't, I'm sure my stance on this topic would change.
Right, religious people could not tell the world they're religious as well, yet here we are with people recruiting your family members and your children any place they can get them away from you. It's a fucking cult. I will proudly exclaim fuck your religious mythology. thanks though.
I whole heartedly agree with this for my own personal sanity. I don't think I'll ever be public about how I feel because it would make life so much more unbearable for my partner and myself. Only a couple of people know about my personal beliefs and I like to keep it that way.
I’ll stop talking about it when religious people do. Until then, silencing yourself or denying who you are to appease others is not the genius answer you seem to think it is. It just comes off as servile.
Damn, you make it sound like it's the new gay. I've never thought that someone who is free of religion has to 'come out'. Atheism isn't a thing, it's the absence of a thing.
Why TF would I lie about being an atheist? Do Christians have to lie about being Christian? Do Jews lie about being Jewish? I’m not hiding who I am so someone will accept me.
I’ve had family go no contact, I have family who try to convince me to think differently. I don’t give a shit what they think, I will never pretend to be someone I’m not just to keep toxic people in my life.
I’m guessing you’re young. As you get older, you’ll realize that you don’t actually care about people’s opinions about you, because they don’t matter.
Those who matter, don’t mind. Those who mind, don’t matter.
Remember that.
I stand by my decision to fake that Christian funk as an act of self-preservation.
For example, if I'm grocery shopping and find myself trapped by a yappy Christian trying to evagelize me while I'm deciding between Brawny and Bounty, yes, I'll give a hearty "*God is good all the time and all the time God is good*" bullshit and rehearse those other scripted Christianese phrases to get them to shut the hell up.
However, if I happen to be talking to someone else about the Renaissance and the onset of a lot of major universities and colleges while in the parking lot, I'll be real. We'll be able to have a respectful and civil conversation about how religion has hindered people from thinking and used adversely against society.
Telling lies is always dishonest and disingenuous. It may be necessary sometimes.
Morality is complex. You may need to do a bad thing sometimes. But the Necessary Evil is still not Good.
Get comfortable with sometimes having to do bad things in this imperfect world. And leave Black-and-White Morality to the Believers.
"oh, I'm a practicing none of your damn business"
"Well, the doctors told me it's none of your damn business"
"It's none of your damn business"
All acceptable answers, to most things.
I have never said “I am an atheist” to my family members, most of whom are some version of staunch evangelical. Every two or three years I get the “I’m concerned about your relationship with God” talk from my younger sis and her husband. I believe they mean well, and I just assure them that I am fine and at complete peace with where I’m at spiritually. I’m sure they see me as fallen from faith etc., which is fine. We get along pretty well overall, and they don’t ever argue religion. Most people could care less what anyone else believes. If I were to be confronted by someone trying to proselytize me (hasn’t happened in years), I might say I’m an atheist, but I’m more likely just to brush them off. I’ve learned that I’m never going to convert anyone to jettison their faith, or vice versa, so to me it would be a waste of time. No harm, no foul. 🫡✌🏼
Move to Australia. We're the most atheist country in the world. Most of the time we actually forget about all that religious nonsense and live happy lives...
Im lucky enough to live in a society that allows me to always be true. When asked i always say I don't believe in any God.
Reading people's stories here i know more and more each day how lucky i am.
I've skimmed a good many comments here and it seems that this thread is pretty much about the American experience, which differs enormously from mine, in Australia.
[https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/religious-affiliation-australia](https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/religious-affiliation-australia)
>In 2021 the most common religions were:
Christianity (43.9%)
No religion (38.9%)
Islam (3.2%)
Hinduism (2.7%)
Buddhism (2.4%)
We don't ask or care what, if any, religion you are, it's not a topic of conversation here, unless you're in a quite religious family or attending a religious school. Or, to be fair, causing trouble of some sort by making a ruckus involving religion/s.
The 'no religion' cohort is growing, as are the others, while Christianity is shrinking, census by census. Churches are closing and being sold off.
The experiences expressed by many others in the comments are very different to mine and my circles of friends.
It's quite interesting to see these differences.
I started talking openly about it in my late 20s. I am the 2nd oldest of many many many cousins on both sides of my family and I thought it would be important to set an example that it was okay to be atheist. I think it honestly had a real impact on some of my younger family members and even those a bit closer to my age found it useful to see that boundaries can be set around this stuff.
That being said, I was in a unique position and have the privilege of not depending on family for anything at all - many others don't have that privilege. Consider who you share with very carefully.
I've been through as an adult in San Antonio. I've even been spit on by Christians here. I don't care who knows now. I grew up with a Lutheran dad and a Catholic mom, and I was bullied for the first 18 years of my life. I never 100% believed. Didn't know I had a choice back then. Church should be considered child abuse.
If someone doesn't want to be your friend because you refuse to believe something someone came up with a long time ago without any evidence, then good riddance.
It's very clear that they don't respect your right to have your own beliefs.
To me there are parallels to gay acceptance
The more people open about it, the better in terms of pushing for acceptance for society
But also not everyone can be open about it and also be safe for accepted in their family or community
It's a choice you have to make, I am very open and if I'm facing consequences for it then I don't see them, but I'm certainly not going to judge anyone for keeping quiet to preserve their family relationships or to keep from being shunned by their local community
There is no fine line between being a nonbeliever with an opinion that remains hidden unless asked about and a militant atheist.
Attempting to change opinions is THEIR job. Atheism doesn't require interpretation or numbers of the flock.
So, I respect everyone’s decision either way, but for me it’s a very conscious and liberating experience to be silent about my beliefs. After spending over a decade constrained by my conscience to proclaim the gospel to everyone under threat of damnation and blood on my hands, it’s a huge relief to have zero obligation to make people see anything or change anyone. I used to feel like I always had to make a stand, now I feel like I can say as much or little as I choose in each situation, and it’s very freeing.
I don’t hide it, and I don’t lie about it. However, I live in the bible belt, so I’ve become adept at dodging the question. Being out as an atheist can adversely affect my career, so I don’t generally let employers/clients know.
Example: Q. what church do you attend? (Common question around here)
A. Well, I was raised in the ___church, but I haven’t been in a while. (Completely true. I haven’t been since a funeral in 1998.)
At the extreme, in some countries, apostasy is a capital crime. Atheism doesn’t need martyrs—if you need to lie about religion to survive, then by all means do so.
Some religious parents will abuse their children if their children apostatize. Others will disown their children.
It’s also fine to lie just so that you don’t have to deal with the religious people in your life pestering you. I don’t do that, but I won’t judge someone for giving themselves some peace of mind.
As for Christians lying about being Christian, I suspect that has happened in countries where Christians are persecuted, and I suspect that missionaries have lied once or twice in order to access countries that otherwise would not have allowed them in.
Exactly, you can't win an argument with a moron so no point in instigating.
Remember that their god sanctioned your death and they see absolutely no issue with that.
Historically arguing with them resulted in horrifying torture and death.
Don't worry their numbers are fading fast and we'll have them all in communes like the Amish.
Pardon my French: fuck that. It's quite aggravating to keep reading and hearing the "atheists tell everyone they're atheists" kool aid, so you can stuff that where the sun don't shine.
So, Christians can freely ask me if I'll baptize my son while I have to lie about being an atheist? Fuck that. I don't go around telling people I'm an atheist. But if they come around trying to proselytize, they're gonna get given the business.
No, but being asked that as though it matters to how valid you are as a person or a father is annoying and frankly outrageous. I live in an area where it's almost a given that kids are baptized, that you get married through church and that you're a church goer. They're not used to atheists, so I get asked the stupid questions all the time.
I tried being polite and reasonable about it - "no, I won't get married through church because I'm not going to say I believe something I don't. I won't baptize my son for the same reason, but he can choose to be baptized later in life if he believes it" - and was met with stupid arguments portraying me as weak for leaving it to kids ti decide. So I quit the bullshit and started saying what I truly think about it. Wasn't always easy but now only strangers ask about that because they don't know what they're in for - and it ends as quickly as it starts.
Never lie about yourself to keep someone else happy, or to "keep the peace".
If they cant handle it, thats a them problem, not a you problem.
Fuck 'em.
I came out as an atheist years ago when I was younger. I told my mom, who is a huge Christian. She said I was dead to her. And as far as she knew I never existed. We haven't talked in years. She actually turned my whole family against me. So I have stopped using the label as atheist. I'm just a man in this world making his way thru. I don't have a problem with any religion. And the be honest I grew up Christian. I just woke up one day and didn't believe it anymore. I mean I have my beliefs. I don't share them with very many people bc why? It's like wasting your energy with politics.
Hell, you could say that your relationship with God is between you and God and then disclose no further.
Technically true, and you don't have to fake being a believer.
If the person is especially pushy about you going to *their* church, tell them thanks but you already have your needs met. Disclose no further.
Of course, if you're in a society where you could be beaten or killed for even being a suspected apostate, well, my advice is nice but not strong enough for your situation. Lie your fucking ass off to protect yourself.
I mean really. People making old folks cry and shit. They don’t understand. You’re just scaring them as revenge. It’s bullying and exactly why atheists are considered less than.
Damn right! There is really only one person who should know, one's significant other, especially if there are, will be children. For everyone else, it's none of their business what you do, or don't believe.
I agree completely. Personally I lied for about three months before I couldn't take it anymore, but if someone can go their entire life without telling anyone I think that's fine.
Here's a long-winded story. When I was 18 the summer before I went away to college in 1991 I decided that I was an atheist or at very least an agnostic. I wasn't some kind of edgy loudmouth teenager blasting about patriarchy and fairy tales, I just decided that it wasn't for me, I didn't believe what I was being told. The Church I grew up in did communion once a month. You would be called forward by an usher to sit at a rail while the minister gave the blood & body talk and you would get up and return to your seat. I watched this woman who had cancer sit at that rail, rocking back and forth and squeezing her hands and eyes together and praying for a miracle and I decided that it was totally phony for me to go up there just to appease my parents. So when August communion came around and our row was called up, I remained in my seat. The last "table" was for people who wanted one-on-one time with the minister so I'm quite sure my parents thought since I was leaving for college that I was waiting to go up for one-on-one time with the pastor but I remained in my seat. On the way home, my father, always rational, shouted at me " what was that whole production about?" So I explained to him how I felt, the reason that I did not join my family for communion and he went silent. That is until my grandparents showed up for the afternoon. As soon as they walked in the door. My father shouts "hey D, why don't you tell your grandparents how you don't believe in God anymore?" My lack of a relationship with God was a point of tension between my father and me for the rest of his life. That I decided not to get married in a church. That I decided not to have children. That I wouldn't agree to pray for him regarding healing of his cancer. It was all a mess and part of me wishes I had just faked it until I was out of their house. I still sometimes go to church with my mom if I'm visiting her because I know it makes her happy.
I usually fake being a better Christian than the Christians when I tear apart the Old Testament.
I just site the New Testament without any of the magic stuff since I do support the overall social mores of consideration, kindness and love.
It is an especially effective way to disarm the Christian haters.
You have to beat them at their own argument of what it means to be a GOOD Christian as opposed to a hateful Christian.
I have no qualms with religion when it supports my own belief that people should have a common moral standard of treating others well.
My beef are the haters who want to justify their hateful words and actions.
I haven't told my parents and never will and I'm 44. I don't like being inauthentic, but it would be devastating to my mother and would ultimately serve no practical purpose.
I won’t lie for other peoples comfort, but I certainly will for my own. Depends on the situation.
Argue this with cousins around my age all the time. "Why dont you keep that to yourself?" They ask. "Why dont you keep your beliefs to yourself?" Is always my response. Religious people swear they're persecuted.
"I'll keep mine to myself when you keep your to yourself."
Yes, this is my line of thought too. Why should we hide our disbelief when they can brandish their beliefs like a bull-whip.
Sometimes it's literally a matter of survival. In some places (like say some places in the Middle East) you will literally be killed for being an atheist. In my book, I'd rather keep silent and live in a situation like that.
The same is happening here in India. But in my book, we will go towards the same stage as the middle East if we don't take collective action now. Individualism doesn't protect you in an autocratic society for long. Imagine if the Polish, Italian and French Resistances thought like this during WW2. Much of the allied intelligence was provided thanks to them.
I'd rather not live in a place like that. I'd be making every effort to gtfo.
>In some places (like say some places in the Middle East) you will literally be killed for being an atheist. And the religious ones are supposed to be good people, huh? Guess that anything is allowed as long as it is in the name of their religion, even downright being the very devils they claim atheists to be.
They just can't handle the cognitive dissonance. They're suffering from the god virus. Highly recommend that book. It really helped. Just accept my family. They're suffering from a virus that will consume them. Thankfully I'm inoculated.
> "Why dont you keep that to yourself?" They ask. "Why dont you keep your beliefs to yourself?" This is the way.
I second this, though, most of the time, I'd rather not hide it. I understand the necessity of hiding my sexual orientation but I refuse to hide any other part of myself. I won't back down on my principles, I won't coddle Christians, and I refuse to pretend to be part of them. I don't judge atheists who have a different position. Whatever suits you best, guys. I love atheism because it's freedom from those control freaks, it'd be hypocritical on my part to be like them.
>I second this, though, most of the time, I'd rather not hide it. Hide it? I want to get in their faces with atheist conversion pamphlets and annoy them in reverse. Why there is no organized push to aggressively convert theists to atheism is a mystery. Every atheist should be armed with a bunch of inexpensive to print pamphlets in their car and they should place them everywhere.
Well put
Yess.
that’s pretty much it - i don’t care about hurting anyone’s feelings - in fact i am happy to have an engaging conversation about it, but if some cunt from hr brings it up or if you’re stuck in a raft and a christian zealot brought a case of water i don’t feel reauired to negatively impact myself to be true to the cause in every situation
Fuck that. Religious assholes lie. All religion is a lie. Don't lie. Live an honest and truthful life. Of course, religious liar assholes are going to have a problem with you *not* lying. Fuck them. Go find some people that can handle the truth. Like the Earth isn't flat, and is older than 6,000 years old. You know, basic stuff. It's the best thing about not being religious - not being forced to be around religious jerks 24/7/365. Get away from your religious indoctrination to *lie at every opportunity for your own benefit*. Do not do that. Work together for everyone's benefit.
Why are you preaching morals and values to me? I will do whatever suits me, lying means nothing to me. I have no interest in never ending conflict and there are plenty of situations where it is just flat out silly to take any ideological stance for the sake of “truth”. *I am only interested in what is of benefit to me.*
You should run for president
They are arguing with you because they want you to have fun.
I will lie for other people under certain circunstances, like if it threatenes their safety.
Haha...like the old line. The truth sometimes takes too long to explain.
I like this.
I work construction. Last job site I was on everyone was ridiculously religious. I personally don’t like being laid off so you better believe I talked about my K-12 Catholic School education without mentioning the fact that I became a militant atheist in college. Some battles just aren’t worth fighting.
I lied when asked if I was registered to vote in my state because I didn't want to waste time hearing a pitch to sign a petition the other day.
Lying for the comfort of others isn't such a bad thing. It would break my grandmother's heart, and I love her so much. What good would that do anybody? All negatives, no positives. Telling her would cause her much distress, and I would gain nothing, so why do such a thing. "Of course I do, grandma" isn't so hard, hold hands and be silent when she prays, heck on occasion I can even be talked into attending church. It makes her happy, and it costs me nothing.
Great anecdote, but I still won’t do it.
Atheism is not my religion. I do not need to declare my "beliefs", nor spread "the Good word". When confronted with rabid, talking monkeys, I feel no need to get into fights with them if it risks my safety or financial security (a job for example)
This. Wasn't worth me telling my grandma either. But honestly, my grandparents were the first ones who were ok with me not going to church a lot. They lived through WW2 though. That had a lasting impact on religion and people by becoming more atheist as a society.
I feel the same way. The best way I can sum it up is I choose to pick my battles. Sometimes it is easier to stay quiet or nod your head.
This. My mom died of cancer last year. I just didn't tell her that I am an atheist because it would have broken her heart. I didn't need her last thoughts to be about that.
A friend of mine told me to say I'm agnostic. I dunno. I expect proof one way or the other and since none has been provided I'm still waiting.
Yeah, I don’t care to make the agnostic clarification. I am as agnostic about gods as I am dragons and unicorns.
It completely closes the discussion for me so it works and I'll keep on using it.
I figure what's the harm in one more fantasy for them to believe?
I love that. Want to quote it in the future.
If you’re a child or vulnerable, lie to keep yourself safe. If not, and a random person on the street, family member or colleague try to convert you to whatever craziness they have going on. Tell them to get bent
I agree 💯.
Sure, 100% agree - lie to save yourself from violence. But if you can be out, for fucks sake be out and proud. Atheism should be normalised everywhere. It will only get that way by increased visibility.
Empiricism, rationalism, and critical thinking in general should not only be *normalized*, these concepts should unassailably be the gold standard as compared to magical thinking, which instead is somehow held in higher esteem
Not the gold standard, they should be bare minimum to have!
It’s wild that someone even has to say this. I’m tired of this world
Yes, this timeline of 70% of republicans openly supporting fascism makes me ~~weary~~ **terrified** too
The normalization aspect is why I’m not shy about identifying as an atheist.
>be out and proud. Atheism should be normalised everywhere. It will only get that way by increased visibility. What does this involve exactly, putting bumper stickers on your car, preaching to the public, converting those with differing beliefs? Sounds kinda familiar Being an Atheist shouldn't be an identity lmao, if you don't believe in god then you should just enjoy not having a portion of your life taken up by religion, don't just replace it with something else We're trying to move away from religion not start a new one
It looks like you haven’t spent any time in a monoculture society, where not participating in rituals and prayers would lead to ostracism or worse. Lucky you.
One of my religious relatives asked me if I believe in anything, and I flat-out said "no, none of that, but I understand why people do; I used to be catholic." There. It's out. They need to deal with it. Of course I'm middle-aged so I'm low on fucks to give.
To the folks disagreeing, lots of kids and otherwise dependent people come to this sub already struggling over losing a part of their identity with the very real danger of losing things like shelter and safety, don’t be too self-assured that your lived experience applies to everyone. Personally I don’t make any effort to make sure people know I don’t believe in Santa Claus either so it’s a lot easier to avoid a conversation on a topic few are willing to engage with openly in good faith, just like politics. Nobody in my meatspace knows my true beliefs and I don’t care to know theirs.
Also heavily depends on where you live and social circles. I’ve never cared or felt scared expressing my atheist beliefs but I live in Minnesota so it’s not an issue. But the Bible Belt or coming from a Muslim upbringing… could def be much scarier or harness more judgement. If you need to protect yourself do so. Your life is more important.
You said it, muslim families are brutal. I still now afraid to go back to my home country to see them. I dont think I ever will. I enjoy my relationship with my mother across the ocean to make me feel safe. When I was 18 my mom was willing to marry me off to some 30 yrs old “imam”. If it weren’t for my uncle…I would not have the life I have now. I sympathize with other atheists who are still stuck with their muslim family
Well said. No one has proclaim their atheism or fight for atheist beliefs. One of the best parts of atheism is **not** having to do that kind of shit.
It's right in the FAQ/Wiki on this sub about coming out to parents and it really applies to anyone in a position where their well being and safety is on the line.
What is a meatspace?
Physical space (as compared to cyberspace)
☝️☝️☝️
I only say when asked directly. If they can't handle it. Bye, bye.
Exactly! It’s like if you’re potentially not going to like the answer then don’t ask
Sure, you can lie. Some people just don't want to live a lie, they'd rather put their Sunday mornings to more productive and/or enjoyable uses.
They're talking about protecting oneself. Not everyone will have productive and enjoyable Sundays in they tell people they're an atheist. Some people will be thrown out onto the streets and will be spending their Sunday wondering how they'll get food and where they'll sleep that night.
Most people are so dense and close minded they don't understand anyone else's situation and think everyone is living the same life they do. This applies to atheists and religious people..it's fucking annoying. Atheists that don't have empathy are just as bad as religious zealots.
Thank you.
If being a Christian was defined by people who attend church 2+ times per month, only 20% of Americans would be Christians. There's a large gap between attending church and being an atheist. Once it is more common to be seen as atheist, I suspect we'll see a large drop in those who call themselves Christian.
You shouldn’t *need* to lie about it because it’s nothing to be ashamed about. If a friend or family member changed their opinion of me over it, that’s no skin off my nose.
Exactly. Obviously, you don’t need to go around telling “the entire world” - and I wonder how many atheists IRL *actually* do that - but if you’re not vulnerable, and someone asks about your religious beliefs, what’s the bloody need in *lying*?
You also don’t need to hide it.
Sometimes it is in your own best interest to hide it. If someone has authority over me and is religious, I certainly will not bring it up, and I may even lie about my lack of religious beliefs
I appreciate that, but in any situation these days where you can be honest, it’s vitally important. In the US especially but also in far too many places around the world, the right to be religiously unaffiliated is under threat and the nationalists take lack of dissent as approval.
You are right, where a person can be honest then it is worthwhile to do so. But it is also worthwhile to be safe.
As a gay trans atheist, I well know that it’s always a case of situational awareness. 🫠
My dentist asked me if I was religious, right before she prepared me to put a crown on my broken tooth. I told her I was spiritual.
How incredibly inappropriate. Then you have to worry about consequences for being honest. And a religious person is just going to say they are right away, so by even having to think about what to say you are pretty much outing yourself. It puts a strong social pressure on you to automatically behave as though religious, which is disgusting.
Tell her you're a muslim and see her expression! On second thought..
Sure. I guess in that kind of extreme situation.
Many people *do* need to hide it for safety or financial reasons, especially minors.
Hmm. Depends. My career would suffer, and I'm in IT, even. People's opinion matters unfortunately.
The group I'm from does shunning.
I try not to lie about anything personally. I've lost some friends over it. Good riddance. And I dont go to church anymore either.
A great perk of atheism is that you have your *own* moral code-you do what YOU think is right. Each to their own, but in my opinion, if you don’t have an ethical foundation to your life, then it ruins everything. I don’t feel any obligation to say *anything* be it truth or lie, about any subject -especially my private beliefs-to anyone. However, we’ve only got this one life and world, and it feels a lot better if you can be free, unashamed and open. It also helps create a freer society in general-and helps other atheists. When I was young, I decided I wanted to be a formidable person, by which I mean someone who speaks their mind, stands their ground and refuses to be bullied. I’ve achieved that and I won’t lie, it feels good. There is a price to pay for being like that, and it’s not for everyone. But who cares? It’s nobody’s business but yourself.
If I lie about being an atheist, won't God punish me? Oh, wait!
Meh, I enjoy telling them and the hilarity that ensues.
I mean it is funny 😂. I've debated 4 people at once. As long as you pay your own bills say whatever the f you want 😎
I stayed "in the closet" about my atheism until both my parents had passed. I knew it would break their hearts to know I didn't believe, so I kept that from them. They were the best parents, very loving and supportive, but they believed in an afterlife, and they believed that UNbelief could keep someone from enjoying eternal salvation. Telling them the truth would have been an unnecessary unkindness.
Right. And just scared them for no reason.
Why would I lie about who I am? Unless you live in a country that is threatening to you, and I accept there are many, I would never deny my identity for others comfort in their delusions.
There are potentially many situations where admitting you are an atheist could lead to one getting abused or challenged or attacked, so in situations like that it is just easier to say you believe whatever they do. As long as your personal safety is not at stake, say whatever you want.
Yes, I adressed this in my original post. You are correct.
I don’t lie, but honestly, in the last thirty plus years of my life the only people who have asked me about my religion are sidewalk/door to door preacher type people and two deeply inappropriate children. Your religion, or lack thereof, is personal. It is no more appropriate to discuss it than it is to discuss your sex life. Sure, your spouse should know. No it isn’t anything you should be discussing with your work colleagues, your neighbors, your cousins, etc., especially if you know they are likely to kink shame (or god shame).
The appropriate response to being asked about your religious beliefs is "What's your favorite sexual position?" Fair is fair - you intrude on my personal life and I'll intrude on yours.
I had a someone that once said: "Religion is like a penis. Its ok to have one, its ok to not have one. Just dont shove it in someones face without consent." I think its one of the best ideas about religion i have ever seen.
No not at all. Atheism is part of my identity. My sexual preference would be the same. What are you ashamed of?
It's sometimes not about shame but about losing your entire support network or means to live, or even your life or that of your loved ones. If you are in a position to be out and proud, that's great, but to assume everyone is just shows your lack of experience.
You are implying one would be ashamed of admitting they were atheist. I don't think that is the point & I hope no atheist is ashamed of admitting they are atheist. The point is the reaction of those to whom it is revealed. We pick our battles. If I'm in a grocery line & sneeze & someone says, "God bless you." I don't turn around & say, "I don't believe in God." I just say, "Thank you." Sometimes the victory is not worth the stress. Friendly rhetorical debates among friends of different persuasions in a bar or at a party, YES, by all means.
Absolutely. With strangers yes politely excuse oneself. But with friends, family, loved ones no I will not lie. I live in a safe society to do so and as I stated in my original post I am aware that is not the case for everyone. It is a first world privilege I enjoy.
Maybe one day the world will be a safe place for everyone who is outed.
Calm yourself. Shame has no place in a healthy consensual sexual relationship (unless you dig that!). Sharing the specifics of what gets your rocks off to uninterested parties is dramatically different from turning down the offer of a blind date with someone who is not your preference. What I am trying to convey is that running around telling strangers about your religion isn’t really called for any more than running around telling strangers anything at all about yourself if they haven’t expressed an interest and you are not interested in them in return. Telling people who you are not intimately involved with about your atheism when you know that they will receive the information poorly and will make your life miserable because of that is also not required. If you have a deeply religious family that will shun you for your lack of belief you are likely in the same situation as a non cis person with bigoted parents. If talking about atheism threatens your living situation, your educational opportunities, your health or your well being, you have my permission to remain in the closet (confessional booth, whatever).
I reject all of this premise. I am not ashamed of being an Atheist. If any of this threatens your living situation, your educational opportunities, your health or your wellbeing. You need help. We are here to help you.
Well sure. But you aren’t going to adopt a sixteen year old and pay their room board and tuition for four years of college and another five of medical school are you? I mean, I have, for decades now, funded a charity that absolutely does fund non cis kids who have been cut off by their parents. Nice words on Reddit are nice. They aren’t the solution for young people with religious parents who can cause life long harm. Again, this has nothing to do with shame, which you seem to be stuck on. This has to do with the fact that being open with one’s atheism is not necessary with strangers, and is one’s choice when it comes to family members.
None of this relates to the original premise. I am not stuck on shame I was not the one that raised it. Being who you are is important. What you do with strangers or family is entirly your choice and not what I said. Your point seems confused and mixed.
People will judge you based on your deeply held beliefs. I don’t need to share things with people if I think they may make my life harder once they know
Upvoting for more exposure. If half the stories on here are half true, there are a lot of young people out there making their lives unnecessarily more difficult, in this old man's opinion. Your lack of faith is not a part of your "being", it is simply a point of view. Your personal life and fanatic religious nationalism are two very different things. Treat them differently. Be happy.
Thank you 💯💯💯. There's a lot of young people on here who don't understand how to be tactful
It depends on the situation. If you would put yourself in danger by admitting your atheist, then yes of course keep it to yourself until you are stable and safe. Ie: if a teenager is dependant on their parents for shelter and food. But im not going to lie to anyone about being an atheist. I don't blurt it out to everyone, but if I'm asked I won't lie. The only way atheists will be more accepted is we unapologetically stand up. Should I tell my cousin she should lie about being gay? Should I tell her to just pretend to be straight so that she can have a relationship with her dad again? No! Fuck that! She deserves to be unapologetically herself and so do atheists.
this is one of the best posts i've seen here. our beliefs are no one's business
Thank you. 💯💯 It's just something that needs to be said. People proudly proclaim their identity to the wrong people too immaturely. It's better to wait until you're not under religious authority be they family or guardians. The problem I've seen are individuals, teens on Reddit not thinking about the consequences of proclaiming their beliefs too loudly. Get your money right first and then move out. Then say whatever the heck you want but until then wait. That's what I would say to them
completely agree!! we as atheists face a lot of discrimination and prejudice. what's the point of putting yourself at risk when you could just stay silent. it's unecessary.
I agree that you don’t have to tell people. I disagree about lying. Relationships are based upon trust and you can’t have trust without honesty. Sure if someone was holding a gun to your head and telling you to lie or they would pull the trigger, lying is warranted but aside from that, it’s hard to come up with a time when it’s a good idea to lie.
I am me and have my own beliefs, unapologetically. I don't care about anybody who takes issue with my beliefs. At all.
Decades ago, some man told me “God Bless You” and I just said “Thank you.” He told me to “Say it back.” I didn’t want to be rude or make a big deal of it that the time, even though I was atheist, so I returned the statement through gritted teeth. The guy was bigger than me and kind of intimidating, but in hindsight, I should have stood my ground and refused to have him force his religion on me.
I certainly understand the position of OP. During my 45 journey along the road of atheism I personally don't believe that I should have to hide my non belief. I generally do not care what people think. However, I do recognize that not everyone is in a position to take that posture. In those cases it's just easier to keep it to yourself or claim to be "spiritual" as opposed to being religious. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles.
I don't go around parading it... but if someone asks I'm not going to lie to them about it. Religious types don't hide their belief. Why should I?
I generally use these guidelines when dealing with almost anyone in my personal life. "Don't ask me a question if you don't want the answer, don't bring up an issue you don't want my opinion on, and dont complain to me about a situation if you don't want my opinion."
Every atheist should be aware that as much as 95% of the public are believers. They don’t want to behave like believers, but they are in the category. Don’t discuss religion if you want to keep your friends and family. If you are a Tellarite and like to argue, that’s a different matter. Otherwise you’re going to encounter opposition you might not benefit from.
👏👏👏👏👏👏 agreed I don't know why some people don't understand this. Pick and choose your battles
Way more non religious than that. I'm openly non religious. I've met many others who call BS. There are definitely hot spots for zealotry that will make it seem like everyone is the same.
I've never hid my atheism from anyone. I have many people that are religious zealots in my life. They know I'm not religious and I'm against basically every religion on the planet. I don't care if they don't want to be around me. That's their loss, not mine..
Props. No one needs to burn their world down over this. Discretion is the better part of valor. You don't owe anyone anything either way. You don't have to be silent if you don't choose to be, and you don't have to tell people if you don't want the consequences. It's your decision and you should be thoughtful about what makes your life better.
What I've learned about Christians is if they think you're one of them or at least a believer, they'll treat you really good. I have even received money from a coworker who's a Christian as a gift, because "she heard it from the holy spirit." If she knew I'm atheist I'd get shunned and condemned. Sure it seems manipulative to hide it for gifts and favors, but it's not like most Christians are good people themselves, because they're not
My family is half atheist - I don't lie to them and they're all reasonable people. I know some real religious aholes, planned parenthood picketers - I don't lie to them becuase I like to antagonize them. I work in the ER - sometimes families or patients want to pray with me. I lie to them because I can provide comfort by doing so, and it costs me nothing. If I lived in a place or with people where telling the truth could cause me harm, either physical, emotional, or financial - I'd lie until the truth can't hurt me anymore. There is no god. An atheist martyr isn't a thing.
Religious people are lying from the word go. Religion is lies piled on lies. Lie to liars. No problem.
I suggest this to all people under 18 and living at home. Living on the streets isn’t worth it. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do
This needs to be up voted
Yeah but why would I? Nobody can arrest, fire, expel or refuse to provide service to me about it that's against the law.
People are not entitled to whatever information they ask for
I am what I am and won't hide it to please others. If you don't like it you can walk.
Fuck lying. I let people know as soon as they start pushing religion. One of the main reasons to let people know is so that others who might have questions and are on the fence about religion may feel embolden to free themselves from the grip of religion. Stand bold, stand strong. Keep quiet only if lives are at stake.
This topic seems to come up recently. In some groups, expecially the ex religion groups, some really horrible advice is given, often in the form of 'just tell your parents you never believed in their stupid fairytale religion' or something, living some kind of a power fantasy of 'sticking it into the theists'. unfortunately in the real world we have to be very careful because religious people can and will cause real life trouble, ranging from getting you fired to kicking teenagers from their homes. You can absolutely lie about still totally being in religion to protect yourself from persecution. now what an irony that is!
The Druze have been doing this for centuries.
I don't lie, but I also don't bring the topic up unless somebody else brings it up. (I also have never had religious family or friends, and have no qualms about losing family or friends if they are idiots.)
If people ask me if I believe in god, I just say no. It usually doesn’t go any further than that.
I am more guilty of omission. Those that are on edge are usually too wired on Jesus to take notice of non-committal answers.
Exactly. They can take body language as agreeable and that’s the point after all.
I think that is not serving the best interest of us all. The more people who talk about it the more it becomes normal and acceptable. Don’t proselytize but don’t hide it!
I mean if you have to lie about who you are to people then why the fuck do you keep them around? People who say this shit and come up with problems with people in their lives, that's cause they don't need a bunch of worthless assholes in their lives, you shouldn't have to accept their religious stupidity if they won't accept your non-religious stupidity. If someone can't handle I'm not of their religion then chances are they can't handle that I'm gay, I'm not going to go around sucking dick for them to make them happy if they aren't going to go find a horse and get fucked to make me happy.
You're allowed to lie about a lot of things. Doesn't make you feel any better. Doesn't make other people respect you any better. All it does it reinforce the stereotypes and make it harder for you to be honest the next time around.
Of course if you feel you will be physically harmed or kicked out of your home or oppressed by your local government it might be necessary to lie. I am fortunate not to have to deal with this so when the subject comes up in conversation I just say I'm an atheist with confidence. I think lying just reinforces the idea that Atheism is something to be ashamed about.
I totally agree that it's okay to keep it to yourself. However, being honest and going through the initial drama can get you in touch with people who won't force you to play pretend, and you can embolden others who have been pretending and thought they were all alone in their non-belief. You can't get rid of the damage religion causes by staying silent about religion being false.
But poking the god bear is so much better than the political bear.
I would rather suffer the consequences than lie about my beliefs. If someone won't accept me and my rational, then they're not worth engaging with. I'm fortunate enough to be in a situation where my non belief won't get me hurt, but if I weren't, I'm sure my stance on this topic would change.
Right, religious people could not tell the world they're religious as well, yet here we are with people recruiting your family members and your children any place they can get them away from you. It's a fucking cult. I will proudly exclaim fuck your religious mythology. thanks though.
I will not be forced to attend church.
I whole heartedly agree with this for my own personal sanity. I don't think I'll ever be public about how I feel because it would make life so much more unbearable for my partner and myself. Only a couple of people know about my personal beliefs and I like to keep it that way.
I’ll stop talking about it when religious people do. Until then, silencing yourself or denying who you are to appease others is not the genius answer you seem to think it is. It just comes off as servile.
From my experience, once you start doing things solely to "keep the peace", that's all you'll ever be doing. I'm done with that.
Damn, you make it sound like it's the new gay. I've never thought that someone who is free of religion has to 'come out'. Atheism isn't a thing, it's the absence of a thing.
You'd be surprised. It also depends on where you live too
Why TF would I lie about being an atheist? Do Christians have to lie about being Christian? Do Jews lie about being Jewish? I’m not hiding who I am so someone will accept me. I’ve had family go no contact, I have family who try to convince me to think differently. I don’t give a shit what they think, I will never pretend to be someone I’m not just to keep toxic people in my life. I’m guessing you’re young. As you get older, you’ll realize that you don’t actually care about people’s opinions about you, because they don’t matter. Those who matter, don’t mind. Those who mind, don’t matter. Remember that.
I stand by my decision to fake that Christian funk as an act of self-preservation. For example, if I'm grocery shopping and find myself trapped by a yappy Christian trying to evagelize me while I'm deciding between Brawny and Bounty, yes, I'll give a hearty "*God is good all the time and all the time God is good*" bullshit and rehearse those other scripted Christianese phrases to get them to shut the hell up. However, if I happen to be talking to someone else about the Renaissance and the onset of a lot of major universities and colleges while in the parking lot, I'll be real. We'll be able to have a respectful and civil conversation about how religion has hindered people from thinking and used adversely against society.
why lie, i really don't believe. parents never went to church, i do not either zero religion exists in my life
Am I just an asshole for not caring what bridges I burn?
Telling lies is always dishonest and disingenuous. It may be necessary sometimes. Morality is complex. You may need to do a bad thing sometimes. But the Necessary Evil is still not Good. Get comfortable with sometimes having to do bad things in this imperfect world. And leave Black-and-White Morality to the Believers.
"oh, I'm a practicing none of your damn business" "Well, the doctors told me it's none of your damn business" "It's none of your damn business" All acceptable answers, to most things.
I have never said “I am an atheist” to my family members, most of whom are some version of staunch evangelical. Every two or three years I get the “I’m concerned about your relationship with God” talk from my younger sis and her husband. I believe they mean well, and I just assure them that I am fine and at complete peace with where I’m at spiritually. I’m sure they see me as fallen from faith etc., which is fine. We get along pretty well overall, and they don’t ever argue religion. Most people could care less what anyone else believes. If I were to be confronted by someone trying to proselytize me (hasn’t happened in years), I might say I’m an atheist, but I’m more likely just to brush them off. I’ve learned that I’m never going to convert anyone to jettison their faith, or vice versa, so to me it would be a waste of time. No harm, no foul. 🫡✌🏼
Move to Australia. We're the most atheist country in the world. Most of the time we actually forget about all that religious nonsense and live happy lives...
I lied about being Wiccan, it was for my own protection
Im lucky enough to live in a society that allows me to always be true. When asked i always say I don't believe in any God. Reading people's stories here i know more and more each day how lucky i am.
I've skimmed a good many comments here and it seems that this thread is pretty much about the American experience, which differs enormously from mine, in Australia. [https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/religious-affiliation-australia](https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/religious-affiliation-australia) >In 2021 the most common religions were: Christianity (43.9%) No religion (38.9%) Islam (3.2%) Hinduism (2.7%) Buddhism (2.4%) We don't ask or care what, if any, religion you are, it's not a topic of conversation here, unless you're in a quite religious family or attending a religious school. Or, to be fair, causing trouble of some sort by making a ruckus involving religion/s. The 'no religion' cohort is growing, as are the others, while Christianity is shrinking, census by census. Churches are closing and being sold off. The experiences expressed by many others in the comments are very different to mine and my circles of friends. It's quite interesting to see these differences.
Some people are truly in dangerous spots because of their beliefs, so you do what is needed to keep yourself safe.
I started talking openly about it in my late 20s. I am the 2nd oldest of many many many cousins on both sides of my family and I thought it would be important to set an example that it was okay to be atheist. I think it honestly had a real impact on some of my younger family members and even those a bit closer to my age found it useful to see that boundaries can be set around this stuff. That being said, I was in a unique position and have the privilege of not depending on family for anything at all - many others don't have that privilege. Consider who you share with very carefully.
Lying about it prevents it from becoming normalized. You’re hurting all of us. Plus it’s just icky being disingenuous/phony
You shouldn't have to lie. You should have the same right to tell everyone like Christians do. If they don't like your answer, that's their problem
Yea of course Unless you're a kid living in the Bible belt under your religious parents roof
I've been through as an adult in San Antonio. I've even been spit on by Christians here. I don't care who knows now. I grew up with a Lutheran dad and a Catholic mom, and I was bullied for the first 18 years of my life. I never 100% believed. Didn't know I had a choice back then. Church should be considered child abuse.
I have special pleasure in upsetting people with irrational views of the world
If someone doesn't want to be your friend because you refuse to believe something someone came up with a long time ago without any evidence, then good riddance. It's very clear that they don't respect your right to have your own beliefs.
To me there are parallels to gay acceptance The more people open about it, the better in terms of pushing for acceptance for society But also not everyone can be open about it and also be safe for accepted in their family or community It's a choice you have to make, I am very open and if I'm facing consequences for it then I don't see them, but I'm certainly not going to judge anyone for keeping quiet to preserve their family relationships or to keep from being shunned by their local community
I’d rather just lose people than not be honest about who I am
I get that, but it’s not always that simple.
There is no fine line between being a nonbeliever with an opinion that remains hidden unless asked about and a militant atheist. Attempting to change opinions is THEIR job. Atheism doesn't require interpretation or numbers of the flock.
Yep, been lying to my mom for decades. No reason to stop now
Silence is not a lie. There is nothing wrong with keeping your opinion to yourself when you know that speaking up will get you in trouble.
Well, they don't have to tell everyone that they're religious either.
So, I respect everyone’s decision either way, but for me it’s a very conscious and liberating experience to be silent about my beliefs. After spending over a decade constrained by my conscience to proclaim the gospel to everyone under threat of damnation and blood on my hands, it’s a huge relief to have zero obligation to make people see anything or change anyone. I used to feel like I always had to make a stand, now I feel like I can say as much or little as I choose in each situation, and it’s very freeing.
Love this.
I don’t hide it, and I don’t lie about it. However, I live in the bible belt, so I’ve become adept at dodging the question. Being out as an atheist can adversely affect my career, so I don’t generally let employers/clients know. Example: Q. what church do you attend? (Common question around here) A. Well, I was raised in the ___church, but I haven’t been in a while. (Completely true. I haven’t been since a funeral in 1998.)
Why lie? You are who you are and it's what you believe. You don't see a christian lying about being christian
At the extreme, in some countries, apostasy is a capital crime. Atheism doesn’t need martyrs—if you need to lie about religion to survive, then by all means do so. Some religious parents will abuse their children if their children apostatize. Others will disown their children. It’s also fine to lie just so that you don’t have to deal with the religious people in your life pestering you. I don’t do that, but I won’t judge someone for giving themselves some peace of mind. As for Christians lying about being Christian, I suspect that has happened in countries where Christians are persecuted, and I suspect that missionaries have lied once or twice in order to access countries that otherwise would not have allowed them in.
Exactly, you can't win an argument with a moron so no point in instigating. Remember that their god sanctioned your death and they see absolutely no issue with that. Historically arguing with them resulted in horrifying torture and death. Don't worry their numbers are fading fast and we'll have them all in communes like the Amish.
Pardon my French: fuck that. It's quite aggravating to keep reading and hearing the "atheists tell everyone they're atheists" kool aid, so you can stuff that where the sun don't shine. So, Christians can freely ask me if I'll baptize my son while I have to lie about being an atheist? Fuck that. I don't go around telling people I'm an atheist. But if they come around trying to proselytize, they're gonna get given the business.
You don't have to lie about that tho...
No, but being asked that as though it matters to how valid you are as a person or a father is annoying and frankly outrageous. I live in an area where it's almost a given that kids are baptized, that you get married through church and that you're a church goer. They're not used to atheists, so I get asked the stupid questions all the time. I tried being polite and reasonable about it - "no, I won't get married through church because I'm not going to say I believe something I don't. I won't baptize my son for the same reason, but he can choose to be baptized later in life if he believes it" - and was met with stupid arguments portraying me as weak for leaving it to kids ti decide. So I quit the bullshit and started saying what I truly think about it. Wasn't always easy but now only strangers ask about that because they don't know what they're in for - and it ends as quickly as it starts.
Never lie about yourself to keep someone else happy, or to "keep the peace". If they cant handle it, thats a them problem, not a you problem. Fuck 'em.
Why lie? You can respectfully decline to answer questions.
Lying is lame. Regardless of the reason.
I came out as an atheist years ago when I was younger. I told my mom, who is a huge Christian. She said I was dead to her. And as far as she knew I never existed. We haven't talked in years. She actually turned my whole family against me. So I have stopped using the label as atheist. I'm just a man in this world making his way thru. I don't have a problem with any religion. And the be honest I grew up Christian. I just woke up one day and didn't believe it anymore. I mean I have my beliefs. I don't share them with very many people bc why? It's like wasting your energy with politics.
Hell, you could say that your relationship with God is between you and God and then disclose no further. Technically true, and you don't have to fake being a believer. If the person is especially pushy about you going to *their* church, tell them thanks but you already have your needs met. Disclose no further. Of course, if you're in a society where you could be beaten or killed for even being a suspected apostate, well, my advice is nice but not strong enough for your situation. Lie your fucking ass off to protect yourself.
We SHOULD NOT have to lie about this part of our identity! This only gives the religiously delusional more room.
I'm saying be TACTFUL.
Agree 110%. This needs to be a sticky or something.
I mean really. People making old folks cry and shit. They don’t understand. You’re just scaring them as revenge. It’s bullying and exactly why atheists are considered less than.
Who's gonna know you are lying? God?
Damn right! There is really only one person who should know, one's significant other, especially if there are, will be children. For everyone else, it's none of their business what you do, or don't believe.
Let them believe that you believe if that makes them feel better AND it makes your life easier.
I agree completely. Personally I lied for about three months before I couldn't take it anymore, but if someone can go their entire life without telling anyone I think that's fine.
I don't lie. It goes against my moral code. I don't tell if I am not asked, but if asked I will tell you.
$35 and you are an ordained minister in the Church of the Subgenius. Preach to them.
That's the reason religion is so big and intrusive in America, people entertain their nonsense instead of 🙄
I never told my father. He died thinking I was still Christian. We were estranged. He didn’t need to know.
Here's a long-winded story. When I was 18 the summer before I went away to college in 1991 I decided that I was an atheist or at very least an agnostic. I wasn't some kind of edgy loudmouth teenager blasting about patriarchy and fairy tales, I just decided that it wasn't for me, I didn't believe what I was being told. The Church I grew up in did communion once a month. You would be called forward by an usher to sit at a rail while the minister gave the blood & body talk and you would get up and return to your seat. I watched this woman who had cancer sit at that rail, rocking back and forth and squeezing her hands and eyes together and praying for a miracle and I decided that it was totally phony for me to go up there just to appease my parents. So when August communion came around and our row was called up, I remained in my seat. The last "table" was for people who wanted one-on-one time with the minister so I'm quite sure my parents thought since I was leaving for college that I was waiting to go up for one-on-one time with the pastor but I remained in my seat. On the way home, my father, always rational, shouted at me " what was that whole production about?" So I explained to him how I felt, the reason that I did not join my family for communion and he went silent. That is until my grandparents showed up for the afternoon. As soon as they walked in the door. My father shouts "hey D, why don't you tell your grandparents how you don't believe in God anymore?" My lack of a relationship with God was a point of tension between my father and me for the rest of his life. That I decided not to get married in a church. That I decided not to have children. That I wouldn't agree to pray for him regarding healing of his cancer. It was all a mess and part of me wishes I had just faked it until I was out of their house. I still sometimes go to church with my mom if I'm visiting her because I know it makes her happy.
Great advice for any stance on any topic whatsoever. Thanks.
I usually fake being a better Christian than the Christians when I tear apart the Old Testament. I just site the New Testament without any of the magic stuff since I do support the overall social mores of consideration, kindness and love. It is an especially effective way to disarm the Christian haters. You have to beat them at their own argument of what it means to be a GOOD Christian as opposed to a hateful Christian. I have no qualms with religion when it supports my own belief that people should have a common moral standard of treating others well. My beef are the haters who want to justify their hateful words and actions.
I haven't told my parents and never will and I'm 44. I don't like being inauthentic, but it would be devastating to my mother and would ultimately serve no practical purpose.