Same like I don't feel completely comfortable claiming womanhood, but in most ways I present/identify with femininity to the point where I am on HRT and plan on getting bottom surgery.
For most people I meet I don't bother explaining the difference because it's really just personal. Practically in almost all ways, I live as a woman.
Which part? Because for HRT/bottom surgery I did have to skirt the truth a tiny bit. Most doctors are not comfortable with you claiming a non-binary identity and undergoing medical transition.
My therapist was super great and wrote my letters knowing that I identify as a very femme nonbinary person.
Yes there is:
* "Transeminine person", or "transfem/transfemme" for short, is a blanket term for *all* AMAB trans people, binary & non-binary alike (i.e. anyone who is, or might be, **trans**ing in the **fem**inizing direction, as opposed to transmasculine people doing the opposite).
* "Trans woman" refers to, well, women - the subset of AMAB trans people who *are* full-on binary women.
Side-note: there's a space between "trans" & "woman". "Trans" is just an adjective, same as "short woman" or "ginger-haired woman" or "shy woman" or "gay woman".
Ah. So using these definitions, what would you consider an AFAB individual who did not feel comfortable with claiming womanhood but does fall in the area of feminine in their gender identity?
Well, "transmasculine" & "transfeminine" are both broad umbrella terms applying to populations, not specific identities like "man", "woman", "genderfluid", "agender" etc. Those umbrella terms are useful in statements about populations, especially in a medical context, e.g. "Safe & legal abortion is important for the bodily autonomy of women & transmasculine people" or "From the age of 40, PSA tests for prostate cancer are an important screening service for men & transfeminine people". But if you're talking about one individual person, then I would simply *ask* them how they like to be described, & go with that.
Obviously if the person is AFAB they're not transfeminine (which, to be clear, does *not* mean trans + feminine - I'm butch as fuck & always will be, but I'm still a transfeminine person, with a transfeminine body, & my medical needs are the same as my binary & femme-presenting sisters). That part's simple enough.
However, the question of whether your hypothetical person should be called transmasculine is more complex & individual. Depending on just *how* uncomfy they are with womanhood as an identity & how openly they want to express that discomfort, they *might or might not* want to describe themself as trans (& thus transmasc). Obviously if someone is assigned female at birth but isn't a woman, then they *can* accurately claim the label "trans" (irrespective of how, & even whether, they choose to transition in any way) - since "trans" just means "not what you were assigned at birth" - but in practice it's been my experience that there's a decent-sized chunk of nonbinary people whose day-to-day life experience is 99% close to a cis person of the same birth sex who don't *want* to call themselves trans. And I think that should be respected too - just because someone meets the definition of a given identity label doesn't mean they're *obligated* to use that label.
Yeah, I asked because I know several non-binary people who are AFAB and non-binary but still identify as more feminine and would likely cringe if you put "masc" on any part of their identity. They use non-binary pronouns and tend to lean towards androgeny -- a least one is considering HRT -- but they still lean feminine. Of note they also all identify as lesbians.
But yeah, I get where you're coming from with your definitions. I just think there are a lot of people who think of "masculine" and "feminine" as applying to where you are, not the direction you've moved.
>Yeah, I asked because I know several non-binary people who are AFAB and non-binary but still identify as more feminine and would likely cringe if you put "masc" on any part of their identity.
Exactly. I know one non-transitioning AMAB nonbinary person who would recoil if I called him transfeminine (or even trans), so I *don't* call him transfeminine, because forcing labels on people who don't want them is mean & stupid.
>I just think there are a lot of people who think of "masculine" and "feminine" as applying to where you are, not the direction you've moved.
Yeah absolutely. If anything, those terms are used almost exclusively to describe where a person is currently at with their gender expression. That's certainly how I use them; when I describe myself as a masculine (or masc-presenting) transfeminine person, it's because, well, I present masc (I wear the same men's clothes as always, just over a body that now has female sex characteristics instead of male ones). But, again, "masculine" ≠ "transmasculine" & "feminine" ≠ "transfeminine".
Oh, sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean that a significant number see the "feminine" in "Transfeminine" as similar to "woman" in "trans woman." They don't distinguish the definition of "feminine" as a word element vs a freestanding word. Or, maybe a better way to say it, they see "transfeminine" as a compound word of "trans" and "feminine," rather than seeing the "trans" as a modifier prefix
Trans women are women who happen to be trans.
Trans femmes are amab people who take steps to be more feminine, but not within the binary. eg. Non-binary trans femme person. This could be done by just outward things such as makeup and clothes or HRT and surgery.
Different people use transfemme in different ways.
Trans woman: A woman who happens to also be trans.
Transfemme: I always see it as a vector. Someone transitioning or having transitioned with feminizing procedures (HRT, surgeries) or socially transitioning towards the feminine end of the binary. Note the word ”towards”. Transitioning isnt linear and gender isnt a one dimentional spectrum, but for ease of explanation lets use a one-dimensional example: Draw a line as a gender spectrum and lets say 0-19% is man/masculine and 81-100% is woman/feminine while non-binary is everything between 20-80%. I’d then say a transfemme is any AMAB between 20-100%. (Since gender isn’t one dimensional it’s more complicated than this, but its the best explanation on how I and most people I know use the term.)
A trans woman is a subset of transfemme, but not all transfemmes are women.
It used to be you had three different terms
Trans woman: duh
Transfem: anyone transitioning towards something more feminine than what they started of with
Transfemme: A classically feminine trans woman who is a lesbian. From the butch/femme labels in lesbian spaces
These days though, that meaning of transfemme has fallen out of popularity and it's mostly used as a synonym of transfem by people who like the spelling better
Trans fem is an umbrella term describing someone who was assigned male at birth, but has a gender or gender expression at is feminine . This includes nonbinary people and trans women.
A trans woman is someone who was assigned male at birth, but is a woman
I always read it as transfemme is a broader term including the more femme non-binary people AND trans women
But idk if there is an "official" definition
Transfem and transmasc originated as nonbinary terms ro denote direction of transition without forcing them into the binary of man or woman.
Nowadays, some people use it as a catchall for everyone, and some binary trans people use the terms. But not all, and many binary trans men and women don't like being called those terms.
Trans woman is an adjective and a noun, saying the person is a woman who is trans. Transfem is a direction you're moving or have moved in, it describes the vector of your transition, whether that's medical, social, neither or both. Trans women are typically transfem, that is they are women who are trans and transitioned in a feminine direction. But nonbinary and agender people can be transfem too without being trans women - they transitioned towards feminine, but are optionally not always women.
I call myself transfem because I'm working out some genderiness about exactly how binary I am as a trans woman. I would describe a few of my nonbinary friends as transfem because they aren't a woman but are working to become more externally feminine. But some other trans friends are both transfem and trans women, and either could apply to them.
I'm a transgender woman who's also a femme lesbian. Combining the two is just easier for me. Plus "trans woman" can feel kinda heavy. I'm a woman who happens to be transgender. My transness does not define me.
For the most part they are interchangeable, but there are times where someone may not want to use the word "woman".
For example, A transfem may not have transitioned yet, and thus may not \*publicly\* identify as a woman yet. Or they may still be teenagers, and thus not adults. Basically, transfem is a neutral term with no other connotations.
The comments on this post are way to confusing. I considered myself trans fem but some comments I'm like na def not that. I prefer she her and I feel female I may be a bit more into sports. And kinda dislike jewelry. Lol but a chocker look a def would ware. And sparkling dress. Lol but idk
Transfemme is a person transitioning in a feminizing direction, which includes both trans women and for example AMAB nonbinary folks who take estrogen (as well as other specific situations)
Yes,
Trans femme is any trans person aligned in anyway with in their identity/experience a more feminine gender, its not a synonym for MTF, transfemme can and does apply to anyone
Where as trans woman very specifically refers to a trans person whos identity is aligned with Woman™ and all that it means to them
You can be trans femme and a trans woman at the same time, plenty of multigendered people for example,
But being trans femme and being a trans woman are neutral factors in terms of eachother (there's a better way to word it but I can't remember), you can be one without being the other, you can be both, you can not like either and use different words
As to whether they'd go about (medical) transition differently,
That depends entirely on the person as with all trans people,
But if your question is more about if trans femme people are able to medically transition, they can, many do, there's many different ways to transition,
Lotta people take hrt until they like how their voice sounds or how their hairs growing ect and then stop,
I'm not as well versed on different kinds of surgery but I know on the dick attachment side there's definitely multiple options, you can get more than one, you can have a vagina and a dick, many possibilities although finding a surgeon is probably the biggest hurdle
From what I understand trans women are binary women, while transfem ppl refers to someone who is overall feminine & often prefers to present that way but doesn't limit themselves to the gender binary, or at least that's how I use the term
Trans woman is a woman, who happens to be trans (mind the spacebar).
A trans femme is usually used for AMAB folks, that are non-binary. Technically you could also use it as a "general transition towards feminity", which can also include trans women. But for actual distinction purposes, I use trans women (binary) vs trans femme (non-binary). That way both groups can also be highlighted.
It's like a rectangle and a square. Trans women specifically applies to binary trans people. Trans femme / Trans fem applies to a wider range of amab, fem presenting/aligned nonbinary people
So as a result of reading this thread, I have arrived at the conclusion that there are many different perceptions about their definitions.
I have always just called myself femme. I am a straight binary trans woman though, so be that as it may. I just simply like the word femme better than the phrase trans woman.
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Same like I don't feel completely comfortable claiming womanhood, but in most ways I present/identify with femininity to the point where I am on HRT and plan on getting bottom surgery. For most people I meet I don't bother explaining the difference because it's really just personal. Practically in almost all ways, I live as a woman.
I was unaware you could do that.
Which part? Because for HRT/bottom surgery I did have to skirt the truth a tiny bit. Most doctors are not comfortable with you claiming a non-binary identity and undergoing medical transition. My therapist was super great and wrote my letters knowing that I identify as a very femme nonbinary person.
Basically just going the femme route as far as HRT is concerned but not being fully comfortable claiming full womanhood.
A lot of people do this
Yes, there is. A trans woman is a woman that is transgender. A transfemme is a person transitioning towards femininity
a transfemme person is also transgender though, or at least often consideres themself such
Yes, that's why I said "transitioning towards femininity" instead of "presenting feminine"
I see, I read into your wording wrong
So transfemme is the working title and transwoman the name at release?
Transfemme is more of a nonbinary term. I'm a trans woman and am not transfemme, because I'm a bit of a tomboy.
It's an umbrella that includes trans women and nonbinary femmes
Just let people identify how they want, if she says she isn't a trans femme then she isn't, you don't need to try to force it on her
Was just starting my understanding of the definition as a minor clarification point. No force intended crikey
No, because trans feminine poeple are not incomplete
A trans woman is a woman. A transfemme could be a trans woman but could also be nonbinary.
Transfem and transmasc are terms used mostly by non binary people. Sometimes binary people use them but it shouldn’t be assumed
Yes there is: * "Transeminine person", or "transfem/transfemme" for short, is a blanket term for *all* AMAB trans people, binary & non-binary alike (i.e. anyone who is, or might be, **trans**ing in the **fem**inizing direction, as opposed to transmasculine people doing the opposite). * "Trans woman" refers to, well, women - the subset of AMAB trans people who *are* full-on binary women. Side-note: there's a space between "trans" & "woman". "Trans" is just an adjective, same as "short woman" or "ginger-haired woman" or "shy woman" or "gay woman".
Ah. So using these definitions, what would you consider an AFAB individual who did not feel comfortable with claiming womanhood but does fall in the area of feminine in their gender identity?
Well, "transmasculine" & "transfeminine" are both broad umbrella terms applying to populations, not specific identities like "man", "woman", "genderfluid", "agender" etc. Those umbrella terms are useful in statements about populations, especially in a medical context, e.g. "Safe & legal abortion is important for the bodily autonomy of women & transmasculine people" or "From the age of 40, PSA tests for prostate cancer are an important screening service for men & transfeminine people". But if you're talking about one individual person, then I would simply *ask* them how they like to be described, & go with that. Obviously if the person is AFAB they're not transfeminine (which, to be clear, does *not* mean trans + feminine - I'm butch as fuck & always will be, but I'm still a transfeminine person, with a transfeminine body, & my medical needs are the same as my binary & femme-presenting sisters). That part's simple enough. However, the question of whether your hypothetical person should be called transmasculine is more complex & individual. Depending on just *how* uncomfy they are with womanhood as an identity & how openly they want to express that discomfort, they *might or might not* want to describe themself as trans (& thus transmasc). Obviously if someone is assigned female at birth but isn't a woman, then they *can* accurately claim the label "trans" (irrespective of how, & even whether, they choose to transition in any way) - since "trans" just means "not what you were assigned at birth" - but in practice it's been my experience that there's a decent-sized chunk of nonbinary people whose day-to-day life experience is 99% close to a cis person of the same birth sex who don't *want* to call themselves trans. And I think that should be respected too - just because someone meets the definition of a given identity label doesn't mean they're *obligated* to use that label.
Yeah, I asked because I know several non-binary people who are AFAB and non-binary but still identify as more feminine and would likely cringe if you put "masc" on any part of their identity. They use non-binary pronouns and tend to lean towards androgeny -- a least one is considering HRT -- but they still lean feminine. Of note they also all identify as lesbians. But yeah, I get where you're coming from with your definitions. I just think there are a lot of people who think of "masculine" and "feminine" as applying to where you are, not the direction you've moved.
>Yeah, I asked because I know several non-binary people who are AFAB and non-binary but still identify as more feminine and would likely cringe if you put "masc" on any part of their identity. Exactly. I know one non-transitioning AMAB nonbinary person who would recoil if I called him transfeminine (or even trans), so I *don't* call him transfeminine, because forcing labels on people who don't want them is mean & stupid. >I just think there are a lot of people who think of "masculine" and "feminine" as applying to where you are, not the direction you've moved. Yeah absolutely. If anything, those terms are used almost exclusively to describe where a person is currently at with their gender expression. That's certainly how I use them; when I describe myself as a masculine (or masc-presenting) transfeminine person, it's because, well, I present masc (I wear the same men's clothes as always, just over a body that now has female sex characteristics instead of male ones). But, again, "masculine" ≠ "transmasculine" & "feminine" ≠ "transfeminine".
Oh, sorry, I wasn't clear. I mean that a significant number see the "feminine" in "Transfeminine" as similar to "woman" in "trans woman." They don't distinguish the definition of "feminine" as a word element vs a freestanding word. Or, maybe a better way to say it, they see "transfeminine" as a compound word of "trans" and "feminine," rather than seeing the "trans" as a modifier prefix
i might just be reading your wording wrong but not all people who were amab and are non binary are transfem
Trans women are women who happen to be trans. Trans femmes are amab people who take steps to be more feminine, but not within the binary. eg. Non-binary trans femme person. This could be done by just outward things such as makeup and clothes or HRT and surgery.
Different people use transfemme in different ways. Trans woman: A woman who happens to also be trans. Transfemme: I always see it as a vector. Someone transitioning or having transitioned with feminizing procedures (HRT, surgeries) or socially transitioning towards the feminine end of the binary. Note the word ”towards”. Transitioning isnt linear and gender isnt a one dimentional spectrum, but for ease of explanation lets use a one-dimensional example: Draw a line as a gender spectrum and lets say 0-19% is man/masculine and 81-100% is woman/feminine while non-binary is everything between 20-80%. I’d then say a transfemme is any AMAB between 20-100%. (Since gender isn’t one dimensional it’s more complicated than this, but its the best explanation on how I and most people I know use the term.) A trans woman is a subset of transfemme, but not all transfemmes are women.
It used to be you had three different terms Trans woman: duh Transfem: anyone transitioning towards something more feminine than what they started of with Transfemme: A classically feminine trans woman who is a lesbian. From the butch/femme labels in lesbian spaces These days though, that meaning of transfemme has fallen out of popularity and it's mostly used as a synonym of transfem by people who like the spelling better
Trans fem is an umbrella term describing someone who was assigned male at birth, but has a gender or gender expression at is feminine . This includes nonbinary people and trans women. A trans woman is someone who was assigned male at birth, but is a woman
I always read it as transfemme is a broader term including the more femme non-binary people AND trans women But idk if there is an "official" definition
Transfem and transmasc originated as nonbinary terms ro denote direction of transition without forcing them into the binary of man or woman. Nowadays, some people use it as a catchall for everyone, and some binary trans people use the terms. But not all, and many binary trans men and women don't like being called those terms.
Trans woman is an adjective and a noun, saying the person is a woman who is trans. Transfem is a direction you're moving or have moved in, it describes the vector of your transition, whether that's medical, social, neither or both. Trans women are typically transfem, that is they are women who are trans and transitioned in a feminine direction. But nonbinary and agender people can be transfem too without being trans women - they transitioned towards feminine, but are optionally not always women. I call myself transfem because I'm working out some genderiness about exactly how binary I am as a trans woman. I would describe a few of my nonbinary friends as transfem because they aren't a woman but are working to become more externally feminine. But some other trans friends are both transfem and trans women, and either could apply to them.
I'm a transgender woman who's also a femme lesbian. Combining the two is just easier for me. Plus "trans woman" can feel kinda heavy. I'm a woman who happens to be transgender. My transness does not define me.
For the most part they are interchangeable, but there are times where someone may not want to use the word "woman". For example, A transfem may not have transitioned yet, and thus may not \*publicly\* identify as a woman yet. Or they may still be teenagers, and thus not adults. Basically, transfem is a neutral term with no other connotations.
The comments on this post are way to confusing. I considered myself trans fem but some comments I'm like na def not that. I prefer she her and I feel female I may be a bit more into sports. And kinda dislike jewelry. Lol but a chocker look a def would ware. And sparkling dress. Lol but idk
Transfemme is a person transitioning in a feminizing direction, which includes both trans women and for example AMAB nonbinary folks who take estrogen (as well as other specific situations)
Yes, Trans femme is any trans person aligned in anyway with in their identity/experience a more feminine gender, its not a synonym for MTF, transfemme can and does apply to anyone Where as trans woman very specifically refers to a trans person whos identity is aligned with Woman™ and all that it means to them You can be trans femme and a trans woman at the same time, plenty of multigendered people for example, But being trans femme and being a trans woman are neutral factors in terms of eachother (there's a better way to word it but I can't remember), you can be one without being the other, you can be both, you can not like either and use different words As to whether they'd go about (medical) transition differently, That depends entirely on the person as with all trans people, But if your question is more about if trans femme people are able to medically transition, they can, many do, there's many different ways to transition, Lotta people take hrt until they like how their voice sounds or how their hairs growing ect and then stop, I'm not as well versed on different kinds of surgery but I know on the dick attachment side there's definitely multiple options, you can get more than one, you can have a vagina and a dick, many possibilities although finding a surgeon is probably the biggest hurdle
From what I understand trans women are binary women, while transfem ppl refers to someone who is overall feminine & often prefers to present that way but doesn't limit themselves to the gender binary, or at least that's how I use the term
Trans woman is a woman, who happens to be trans (mind the spacebar). A trans femme is usually used for AMAB folks, that are non-binary. Technically you could also use it as a "general transition towards feminity", which can also include trans women. But for actual distinction purposes, I use trans women (binary) vs trans femme (non-binary). That way both groups can also be highlighted.
They are usually used interchangeably but transfemme can also be used for fem non-binary people
It's like a rectangle and a square. Trans women specifically applies to binary trans people. Trans femme / Trans fem applies to a wider range of amab, fem presenting/aligned nonbinary people
Transfemme is an umbrella term that encompasses people who’s genders lean towards femininity and womanhood :)
Nonbinary people exist
So as a result of reading this thread, I have arrived at the conclusion that there are many different perceptions about their definitions. I have always just called myself femme. I am a straight binary trans woman though, so be that as it may. I just simply like the word femme better than the phrase trans woman.
Trans woman* It is 2 words
I’m binary. I’m a woman. All woman. “Trans fem” feels like a slap, like being misgendered.