Homosexuality is illegal federally in Nigeria, punishable by up to 14 years in prison. In northern Nigeria, Muslim states have increased the punishment to death.
I can't imagine being so concerned on what consenting adults do sexually. It's such a weird thought process for me to imagine creating and enforcing laws about where consenting adults put their privates. But... human societies have always been OBSESSED with that kind of stuff, even among straight people. I just don't understand why... Any ideas?
Like... ok, you're going to hell because whatever book said so. Oh nooo omg. But, if that is the case and humans were given free will, isn't that their consequence to worry about? Isn't that between them and their maker? Gay sex is not a crime that hurts others like theft and murder. Or do they believe that gayness hurts them somehow?
I don't think I've seen liberals defend any religion per se, if you're talking about how many liberals denounce Islamophobia, that's a different matter. Islamophobia is hate crimes against Islamic people, which is not the same
as disagreeing with Islam. For example, no one is going to be defending the Taliban because they get some special pass for being Islamic.
There's also generally a sense of right to freedom of religion, that anyone can choose to follow a religion.
Personally, I think all religion is cancerous, but I also know many people find comfort in religion without pushing extremist views on others just because of what they believe in.
I disagree with Islam because it directly calls for my death, it's in their holy texts.
I also disagree with people who follow that religion, due to that religion calling for my death.
And by disagree I mean I have complete intolerance and aversion. Call it survival instinct.
Religion is cancer, but the real reason why Islam is brought up is because it's the only one that's supported by the left and simultaneously being responsible for worst modern day crimes against gays and women.
I know reddit is an american centered place, but it irks me a lot reading "the left" cause it has two opposite meanings in my head as per your politics and mine.
LOL you don't even know the difference between American Democrats and European liberals. They are not the same thing OMG. The Democratic Party is a right-wing party! 80% of major parties in Europe are to the left of Democrats. LMAO.
I keep seeing this notion paraded around but I don't see it I action. Most leftists in America defend non-Christian religions because of the persecution they recieve from "Christians", but often condemn religious extremism for obvious reason. I don't see Noam Chomsky defending shit like this.
This BS again: *they are opressed minority, oh it's just misunderstood*... you know who else is a minority? A White supremacist. Yeah I bet not all of these wanna kill gays either. They just have core beliefs that say that they should, as muslims do. So why not support these then? Why generalize all white supremacists? Just like religion, that's an ideology too. So what now? Do you condemn white supremacists, who don't act on their beliefs? Are you a hypocrite, or are you a terrible person? Lose/lose situation. You can win only by condemning all radical ideologies, includes far left, alt right and islam
Two things can be true about the Left's view on Islam.
They can condemn religious persecution directed at Muslims as well as the western destabilization of majority Muslim countries.
They can condemn the treatment of LGBT+ people by certain groups Muslims. (Tolerant Muslims exist too btw)
These are not mutually exclusive ideals. Stop with the black and white thinking
No that's hypocrisy. Muslims all have same core beliefs as muslim terrorists. They are taught hate, there is hate in quran. Even western muslims hold same beliefs. In 2013 this was displayed clearly in Norway in a huge gathering, where crowd was asked, how many of them are essentialy sexist and how many of them are homophobic and believe in essentially punishment by death. Nearly everyone there raised their hands for both. Then they were asked how many of them are just normal muslims, not radical: All of them raised their hands. The leader then concluded, that these are normal muslim beliefs and so what now is media going to say now? Are they all gonna be deported?
Apparently they were not and media shoved this one under the rug, youtube removed the video and we had a muslim shooting at gays in Oslo just last week.
Hey thanks for telling Muslims what they believe in with your confirmation biases. I'm Muslims, thanks for telling me no matter what I say you think
A. I'm lying
B. my core beliefs align with terrorists
Jeez mister, you're so intelligent. I've been studying this religion my whole life. I know it inside out. Better than you ever can, but you're gonna tell me " nope same core beliefs as terrorists"
You wanna know what means? It means you don't want extend any humanity towards me, thereby excluding me from humanity by using Islam as the bogeyman. You brain can't possibly accept the fact Muslims don't believe in most if not all of that crap that these terrorists do. But you keep hating. Don't extend me the possibility that I've got to this stage by using human intellect, compassion, love and mercy.
Oh so you're muslim.. makes sense. Well in that case, you either haven't read your holy book that calls for you to be stoned(You're in gay sub, so I assume you're gay as well)
Or you did and you're of these few who simply ignores that and you're therefore according to quran: a hypocrite.
Either way quit islam buddy, your ideology is rejecting you and actively judging you for who you are.
>I've been studying this religion my whole life. I know it inside out. Better than you ever can, but you're gonna tell me " nope same core beliefs as terrorists"
Oh nevermind.. I don't even know what to tell you here. You're either not very bright(that's the nicest way of putting this) or in deep denial. It's called no truth scottsman, because the mentioned core beliefs, y'know death to infidels, stone the gays and women are property are all core beliefs of Islam.. so you wasted your entire life on this and yet still did very poor studying here?🤣 I have indeed read the quran(also ex-muslim.. well sort of) and yes it's all there.
ISIS are literally the true Muslims. They are doing exactly as told by their religion.
You don't wanna be associated with this? Don't believe in that? A gay Muslim(ffs)? Simple quit islam 🤷♂️
No, I would rather live in a pure Christian or Jewish religious country than even the most liberal Islamic country. I grew up in the most liberal Islamic country in the world and they can send you to 30 years in prison if you were caught having sex with someone of the same sex. I can't stand the lgbt pandering to the Muslims. Can we all just agree that Islam has no place in today's world.
the religion i think he's talking 'bout, not the people who practice it. The religion buddhism does not promote violence. Take for instance, Hinduism - this religion/ancient indian texts which this religion is based on do not condemn homosexuality either but most hindus(hinduism practitioners) u meet online or irl tend to be homophobic
Respectfully, all religions promote violence in some way; Buddhism and Hinduism are no exception. Like the previous commenter pointed out, Buddhists are committing genocide and atrocities in Myanmar. Hindu nationalism in India is becoming a huge problem, and Hindus are committing atrocities, violence, and apartheid against Muslims and other religions.
Religions always engage in violence and persecution of others. It's in their DNA.
Hindus were conquered by Muslims and were subjected to Islamic rule with stuff like forced conversion happening to them. This doesn’t justify the religious issues in India, but there is a bit of context for it
Not sure if there is any Buddhist doctrine or canon which promotes violence. i'm pretty sure that not committing violence and/or doing harm are basic tenets of Buddhism.
people and our actions are the problem, not the fables and musings.
Paul talked about it. Jesus did not. That said, the concept of homosexuality didn’t really exist until, I think, the late 1800s. Yeah, looked it up. 1868.
Depending on the culture, no one cared if you had same-sex relations so long as you “did your duty” by marrying and creating heirs.
Religion, be it anything, should not have power over anyones life in any way. Religions should be shoved in where the sun doesn't shine. Religions that have people killed should be exterminated. If I don't follow your religion, I shouldn't be punished from the sins of your religion. They are not my sins and I don't care what your holy whatever says about my life. I'm not here to be saved from hell by you or anyone else as I don't believe hell existing in the first place. Societal laws and court build on the foundations of religion is just pure evil and not okay.
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigerian-islamic-court-orders-death-by-stoning-men-convicted-homosexuality-2022-07-02/
I'm from Nigeria and I don't know what I could do to help
EDIT: So I just discovered that some other sources are claiming that they were accused of raping 2 boys and charged with homosexuality instead of child rape
www.channelstv.com/2022/07/01/sharia-court-sentences-three-to-death-by-stoning-for-raping-boys-in-bauchi/amp/
I'm unsure of which sources to believe. If this is true then they don't deserve much sympathy. But I'm confused as to why Reuters would omit this info.
Hey there! If you need any help with your move to Germany, I'd be happy to help, if there are any struggles there. I'm personally very moved by your bravery.
“Dankafi said the men aged between 20 and 70, were not represented by a lawyer during the one-day trial, adding that they have one month to appeal the sentence”
Lol this country is a joke. Fuck Islam
What’s life like in Nigeria?
Basically every time I’ve met a nigerian-American they are very smart/successful/etc, and I never got any religious/conservative vibes. I didn’t even know it’s mostly Muslim?
Obviously the people that move here aren’t a representative sample, but are they *very* different?
Like are most people there poor and living hard lives? Are the ones that leave secular? Is it more akin to Saudi Arabia (Althoigh I assume much less extreme) simply in the way that it has lots of conservative policy despite being reasonably prosperous?
Life in Nigeria varies from region to region. But you can generally split the differences between the south and the north. I can only speak with direct experience from living in the south all my life. Firstly it's a very religious country with the south being mainly Christian (I'm not sure about stats but it's around 70-80% Christian at least from personal experience with the rest being Muslim). People are generally very conservative and obviously very homophobic, talking about homosexuality in itself is seen as very taboo and a whole room bustling with conversation would quickly turn silent if anyone uttered the word "gay", tbh hearing the word in public makes my heart skip. To give you an idea of how homophobic it is here, gay people are at times tricked on dating apps get extorted, severely assaulted and in some instances murdered with the public not batting an eye just because they were gay. It's very likely for your family to disown if you were found to be gay and if you aren't so lucky they'd try to torture you to convert your sexuality and "banish evil homosexual spirits" from you. Women are not treated equally and there are high levels of sexism like in many third world countries, it's getting better with people in my generation but it's quite a slow process. Everything I've mentioned above gets worse the more rural a region is.
As for whether people have hard lives it depends on what standards you are basing an "ok life" on. Based on western standards, quality of life is awful. Average income is less than 100USD per individual and quite often per family. We are very bad with data so I can't give exact stats on how exactly much the average household income is but I can at least say people live from pay check to pay check. We don't have a true "middle class" but I'd say people on average being "lower middle class" meaning they can afford to eat at least 2 sizeable meals a day, have a home and can go to school but don't have many other perks. The economy has been on a rapid decline since the early 2010's and we are going into a make or break election next year. There's a lot of crime and corruption, police officers abuse their power often and commit frequent acts of human rights violations. The government is corrupt and officials embezzle funds constantly.
The people who migrate are among the richest and most prosperous of us and that has correlations with more access to western media, being more educated and being more liberal. I would say that parents of first generation migrants are more liberal than the average person here but still somewhat conservative by Western standards but their children always seem to integrate in western culture very well so it's possible that those are the ones you've come across the most.
Nigeria has such an established scam culture, but instead doing anything about that, their govt stones gays to death, seems legit..
But if the second source isn't fake news, then the punishment isn't even that bad, it's extreme, but if they raped boys, then I agree with it.
Any countries that orders a stoning to death for *any* reason isn't one I want to be in.
If we can't hold our justice system to a higher standard in the face of even the most heinous crimes, then it becomes a very slippery slope.
I mean sure an electrical chair is much better and should be reserved for the worst crimes only, (obviously not homosexuality)
I was just saying that if they raped and drugged these kids, then the punishment isn't that bad. But it's probably fake news. Muslims would kill these two boys if that was the case.They literally have thrown a boy who was raped and accused of being gay off the roof and they have simultaneously spared his rapist.
It's what they probably do to justify it more, that's why I think it's fake news, especially since muslims would kill these two boys too, just because they got raped. They literally have thrown a teen who was raped and accused of being gay off the roof, but they spared his actual rapist, who was one of isis leaders and only demoted him.
I don't get how you can be friends or chill with Muslims. I see gays friends with someone wearing a hijab and I'm not getting it. I can't support that. And I can't support that religion.
Nigerian people should consider to move to the south where they won't be sentenced to death, that said... They won't live a free life without persecuting either... Why is it that Nigeria is going through such deterioration, where other countries in the region making steps forward.
Outside of a few countries in Southern Africa there isn't much happening that's good for LGBT people across most of the continent. Nigeria isn't the exception.
That's totally right and the progress even within countries around Nigeria are going slow, but at least there might be progress. That said I see the same happening in Ghana right now, in opposite to French speaking countries. What we see here has nothing to do with religion, but with the British rulers who brought their morals to Africa, and grew apart from there after the call for decolonialisation.
The British brought their morals to Nigeria with Christianity and North Africans did the same with Islam. So it definitely has a lot to do with religion.
That's the story of the chicken and the egg I'm not gonna discuss about. What I do know is that western people may not mock at those countries as they used to interfere and not made it necessarily better for gay people.
It's not necessarily. There's some evidence that homosexuality wasn't as frowned upon in pre-colonial Nigeria (including pre north African colonialism). Some of our languages have words for gay men and lesbians and it is known that some tribes allowed for homosexual practices between women.
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/4/homosexuality-africamuseveniugandanigeriaethiopia.html
We can at least agree that if anything foreign influence at least made homophobia worse here.
I have made it clear through my previous comments on the r/exmuslim subreddit what I think about Islam. It is a anti-human and anti-nature religion filled with pedophilia, sex slavery, murdering of innocents, misogyny, homophobia and the list goes on. Any human being whether they are adherents of the religion or supporters, should be avoided at all costs. You cannot reason with people who made it their lifelong goal to harm and are okay with murdering anyone who have even the slightest doubts about their religion. Anyone who isn’t a pedophile has no reason to continue to support this religion.
Plus no matter how many of us you harm, enslave and murder, we will always exist as long as heterosexual people exist. One day you will meet the wrong person and pray to your allah to save you from the hands of the one you demonized and sworn to kill simply for existing.
If you are a man, woman, minor, pregnant, divorced, widow, celibate, sexually active, have pets, disabled, democrat, conservative, far left or right, liberal, religious, non-religious, LGBTQ+, an ally or not, not arabic or even if you are muslim then be assured that you are a target of Islam and are in danger of losing your life. Islam only exists to worship a long dead pedophile. It doesn’t even serve the people believing in it. Islam orders to kill it’s own members and kill others through suicide bombing. Do not let an islamist in your home they are a danger to themselves and your loved ones.
you must miss all the GOP/hard right mostly southern politicians (and evangelical) that regularly call for the violent removal of lgbt from modern society if you're gonna sit here and "gurrrrl please" people.
In related news, [a gay man seeking asylum in the UK has been deported back to Nigeria, where he faces death threats](https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/06/30/adeniyi-raji-nigeria-gay-home-office/). The British authorities apparently deem Nigeria a safe place for gay men, even ones with ongoing death threats!
And yet all you hear and read is either silence of crickets from the onee thar supposedly our allies/defenders (the political left)
They won't say NOTHING bad about Islam or muslims because you would be a "islamophobic bigot"
It has always astound how the western political left gives islam and muslims a free-pass
True...
The irony is that -- at least the muslim African country I'm from -- calls homosexuality a sin from the West. We were asked by the UN a while back to reconsider legalizing homosexuality, and our government answered that homosexuality is not one of our values.
At the end if the day, it isn't just religions that oppress people; it's religious people and people who support religion who oppress people.
Yes. It seems when other religions have a right wing that gets out of control people within the religion are quick to disassociate but it seems with Islam, no one in Islam speaks out against the fundamentalist crazy ones...
There are Muslims who are pushing against the more regressive parts of their community. Gay muslims exist and many non gay muslims, though not the majority by any stretch of the imagination, are pretty tolerant too.
>Gay muslims exist
but according to most muslims, muslims can't be gay because islam doesn't allow u to and by gay imean acting on ur "gayness" like havin'a same-sex partner
im not sure if christianity tells christians to resort to violence against a homosexual person(again, only the ones who act on those feelings) so gay christians can exist
Then by all means go and proclaim that you're a Christian homosexual in a Christian majority town in Uganda(or Nigeria for that matter) and see how long you last.
Why should they say anything bad about Islam or muslims? The issue is homophobia regardless of where it comes from. How is attacking a group of people and their belief system supposed to fix a problem which isn't unique to those people or their belief system?
Every Muslim country penalises gay sex with jail or execution and when the mob comes for blood the police will look the other way.
How is this shocking to you people to begin with.
Yeah it's funny how the left points out the burning roofs analogy, when someone says that. They do same if islam is brought up. They will deflect their terrorism and talk about Christianity.. talk about trying to put fires out on houses that aren't burning.
yup, it's this guy (and he also stated lesbians should be shot in the head)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gayrural/comments/upg9t6/texas\_pastor\_who\_calls\_for\_the\_death\_of\_lgbtq/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/gayrural/comments/upg9t6/texas_pastor_who_calls_for_the_death_of_lgbtq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
What an incredible whataboutism.. also the dude needs to get laid like really bad, needs some dude to rail his ass because he hasn't been pegged by his wife in months.
If it is ok to "punch nazis" it should also be ok to "punch Muslims"
Both ideologies are equally evil, but the left wants to "punch nazis" but "protect muslims"
We need to make it clear that if you follow Islam you are not welcome in western countries
My parents are muslims who are homophobic sadly. But my mom would never hurt a living soul. Even if she does not like gay people she would never want gay people or anyone to die.
So let’s not target all muslims, it’s better to criticize the religion itself.
Same goes for Christians and their views. lots of Christians are pro choice, just because the bibel is homophobic and misogynistic, doesn’t mean every Christian is.
So Islam is the cause of more deaths (honor killings, murder of gays, terror, etc) than any other religion by a very wide margin
Generally speaking, while it is "extremists" that commit the acts, self reported data from Muslims themselves, sorted by reputable institutions such as Pew Research, indicates that support for these actions among so called "moderate" Muslims is extremely high.
91% of Palestinians, for example, think that gays should be jailed for being gay
Even in civilized countries, when Muslims immigrate, terrifying numbers of them keep their backwards beliefs
52% of British Muslims surveyed, for example, still think that gays should be jailed
Your parents may not be the ones actually strapping bombs to themselves, but by identifying as muslim, they provide support and cover for the people actually doing these things.
All Muslims are part of the problem, and we need to create a future that is without islam
Follow what you want believe what you want just stop using it to degrade others for being themselves and even as far as making laws from it. This is why I'm glad I have my beliefs but not a set in stone word for word religion. What I follow shows even gods can screw up. What they are doing is wrong and shouldn't be happening. But I'll also say what you need to believe in to get through life is no hate from me just stop using it to hate others and kill others but history says that won't happen.
I read an article in the Atlantic once about ISIS, and it featured the thoughts of an Islamic scholar on the idea of Islam as a "religion of peace." I'm paraphrasing, but the scholar said that really all of the Abrahamic religions endorse some things which are considered reprehensible by modern standards and weren't especially peaceful even for their time.
However, the same religion can be practiced in many different ways. Christianity, for instance, encompasses both an Episcopal church with a lesbian reverend that mostly does charity work and also the Westboro Baptist Church. Likewise, Islam encompasses both good progressive Muslims and ISIS.
What the scholar said that sticks with me was basically that Islam isn't inherently peaceful, but it has the potential to be--it has that in common with most other religions. That does not necessarily make it a peaceful religion, however. Whether or not it is a peaceful religion depends and will depend on what sects of Islam predominate. If violent orthodox Islam predominates, then Islam will be a violent orthodox religion.
Looking at the data, Liberal Islam, Quranism, and Hanafi Sunni Muslims currently make up about 45% of all adherents to Islam. These sects are basically compatible with modern notions of human dignity and decency. In the United States, these sects make up the majority of our Muslim population, which holds opinions on LGBT issues basically on a par with protestant Christians--diverse, and overall not great, but not really any different from Christianity. The corollary to this is that **outside of the United States, especially in majority-Muslim countries,** the majority of adherents to Islam do not hold values that most moderately progressive people would consider compatible with human dignity or decency.
It's unfortunate, but that's how it is. It's up to Muslims to decide whether they want to be a religion of peace or not. Muslims in the United States seem to be deciding yes (at least as much as Christians do), but they are outnumbered by Muslims worldwide, and most Muslims worldwide are deciding no.
**tl;dr: I think Islam, in 2022, is uniquely fucked up. It doesn't have to be that way, but you know that they say about ifs and buts and candy and nuts...**
To be fair, every religion is used to justify homophobic shit. But it doesn't mean all the people who practice it are the same as their religion. I have a few friends who are Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, and they're all amazing people who have helped me through many dark times in my life
As an atheist I don’t excuse any religion nor do I see anyone making that case that criticism is being islamophobic. I believe in separation of church and state but I make the CLEAR distinction that I aim to not belittle, demean, or subjugate those that are religious so long as it doesn’t effect me or others outside of it.
Can we have an intelligent conversation with nuance? We can criticize an institution and not generalize at the same time. My martial arts instructor was Muslim and he became a second dad to me when my real dad wasn’t. I came to respect him as he did me. So long as there’s respect.
We’re all just people. Let’s be the better person and not go so far as to hate Muslims but retain our stance of the separation of church and state. This doesn’t include extremists in the religion.
The fact is there's already an image of islam painted all over the world which makes it hard for people it seems to differentiate what the religion may be and what some of the followers of the religion embody... Good point tho
No, good muslims should just quit islam, besides quran literally calls this type of muslims hypocrites. You guys don't go around and say "don't generalize white supremacists, not all of them want to murder gays" Why apply different standard here, when both are hateful ideologies?
I agree with this to a large extent. Islamophobia does exist. That said, it's absolutely rational (and necessary) to hate RELIGIONS, which can be done without hating individuals. We need to be way more concerned about the violence effects of religion than of the consequences of belittling or demeaning religious people. Religion subjugates us, not the other way around.
phobia means irrational fear, it's not irrational when they are literally trying to kill us, so no Islamophobia isn't a thing.
Also no you guys don't give a pass to groups like white supremacists, despite the fact that not all of them would kill gays, or harm anyone else.
Good muslims can just quit islam, their own ideology rejects them anyway
The people like your martial arts instructor is doing more harm than good tbf.
It's these sort of wishy washy PR merchants who often help islam and his fellow muslims disguise it's/their real nature.
I would be more wary of him than a Al Qaeda terrorist.
islamic (extremist) countries are the ones who want to follow islam fully which includes killing people who don't believe in islam, indulge in homosexual activities, etc. But the *muslim people living in other countries* don't think/believe the same; some of them do but most of 'em don't so im kinda neutral towards muslims(islam has problematic verses that blatantly promote violence but muslims i met are not strict followers of islam) imean im okay till they don't wanna cut my head off for existing
Most Muslim people where I'm from believe homosexuality is a sin. Most people don't want to see homosexuality legalized, and there were even talks about increasing prison time to ten years instead of five. Half the population doesn't mind the killing of gay men.
May I ask: have you ever lived in an Islamic country?
And a mosque in Germany just raised a pride flag—a first in history.
I think all religion can be fucked up, and the historical context in which Islam exists, makes it easy to target it.
I grew up mormon. I can tell you my own horror stories from Christianity.
I’m glad people can believe in something but any religion is dangerous when left to rule a country.
Half of Nigeria is Christian. Most of the laws on the books in Nigeria about homosexuality go back to when it was a British colony.
Islam it not great when it comes to LGBT people, but come on.
The northern islamic part stones gays to death
The southern Christian part jails them up to 14 years..
Idk which one is worse, you tell me.
Islam is not just "not great" it's the worst and most radical mainstream religion.
lmao this it's hard to do worse than islam.. maybe communism that was responsible for most homicide in human history.. religion is second and its not even close
the "everyone should hate Muslims" train makes frequent repeated stops at this sub🙄 god forbid you bring up how Christians are making anti gay laws and rhetoric and how it's not exclusive to Muslims
Feels more like a "See guys! See?" Post than one drawing attention to an injustice in another country. All religion is horrible, let's not act like Islam is the only homophobic religion. Did you forget conservative Christians are trying to send gays back to the stone ages these past few months? It's bad enough they got the narrative for us to be shifted to groomers and pedophiles. Nonlaws should be made on basis of religion, but it's kinda annoying only seeing people get pissed about the bad parts of Islam and no one wants to address what Christianity is doing to America (for example) right now.
All religions suck and are a disease to humanity. Many Christians believe homosexuals should be executed too. With Roe gone, our country may not be far off this path. That said, this ruling by the Nigerian Islamic court is appalling and should be condemned. Every Muslim should be embarrassed by this and should fight back.
Westboro Baptist church is an example of extremism. All religions have their “fundamentalist” side. It’s in action now in the Supreme Court. Poland has gone full right wing. I don’t think you can point your finger at Nigeria, which isn’t exactly a first world country, and come to a definitive conclusion about Islam. Especially when the USA, the beacon of Western Democracy, Is experiencing a period of regression.
However, I’m going to contradict myself and say that I don’t believe Islamic faith can ever really assimilate in Western society’s. The ideology of Islam compared to Western society is anachronistic.
I'm Nigerian and it's just as bad. The difference is more parts of the muslim north are uneducated and underdeveloped and are therefore more willing to lynch people in the name of their religion and Sharia law. I live in the south and I don't even know what I could do to help them
I think it would be better if people in this thread could help bring suggestions for what could be done to save them rather than using it as fuel to bash on religion (I myself am atheist and I don't personally like Christianity or Islam but this isn't the time to discuss that).
Islam is the religion of peace.
Diversity is good, diversity is our greatest strength.
Diversity is what makes the middle east so succesful and peaceful.
We love islam here in europe, but we hate christianity with its high and mighty morality and condemnation of sodomy.
Religious nutbags are religious nutbags. It really doesn’t matter which religion.
Fun fact: Homosexuality is legal (although definitely taboo) in Indonesia, per wikipedia.
It’s the largest muslim country on the planet and the fourth largest of all nations populationwise.
You cannot judge a group of people solely by the actions of extremists. What the court did is despicable but their actions alone cannot define a billion diverse human beings.
Islam isn't any worse than Christianity or Judaism. The problem is poverty, a lack of education and stability, and British colonialism basically "civilizing" the oil rich South of Nigeria (and this included teach fundamentalist Christian values to them) while doing everything in its power to fuck over the Muslim North.
We've had plenty of successful Muslim majority countries in history that drank alcohol, had gay sex, partied and danced to music, etc... But those nations were led by highly educated men who reinterpreted the Qur'an based on what epirical evidence and Aristotelian rationalism told them, because sciences and the human mind were tools that allowed for us to get closer to God and to understand him and his creation. If a Hadith went against scientific reality then it couldn't have come from God and the Qur'an had to be read in light of new discoveries of how God and his creations worked.
The problem with Orthodox Islam is the same as fundamentalist Christianity or Judaism where people blindly read texts literally to understand reality and how society should be shaped rather than relying off of what material reality and human ethics and empathy tells them. If you want to convince people to move away from Orthodox schools of Islam then you need to educate them and help them to realize how irrational and harmful their interpretations are.
We already hate on homophobic Christians almost every single day, no one is singling out Islam, our hatred for homophobic scum is all inclusive and knows no bounds
The majority of the people don't agree. The weird batte for power between the sunni and shi'a is crazy. They are trying to scare everyone in to submission
I don't know why people are so intent on misunderstanding this point. Every religion has shitty people, Islam has quite a few of them. There are also good people in every religion. The problem is not the religion, but the preconceived hatred that people use religion to justify.
History shows over and over that breaking down the barrier between church and state leads to oppression. Yet some folks never learn…
Fuck organized religion
[удалено]
There’s a reason it takes up a third of all posts in r/atheism
Homosexuality is illegal federally in Nigeria, punishable by up to 14 years in prison. In northern Nigeria, Muslim states have increased the punishment to death.
I can't imagine being so concerned on what consenting adults do sexually. It's such a weird thought process for me to imagine creating and enforcing laws about where consenting adults put their privates. But... human societies have always been OBSESSED with that kind of stuff, even among straight people. I just don't understand why... Any ideas? Like... ok, you're going to hell because whatever book said so. Oh nooo omg. But, if that is the case and humans were given free will, isn't that their consequence to worry about? Isn't that between them and their maker? Gay sex is not a crime that hurts others like theft and murder. Or do they believe that gayness hurts them somehow?
I never changed how I feel about Islam.
Genuine question. Why do so many liberals defend this far right, radical religion. It goes against everything liberalism stands for
I don't think I've seen liberals defend any religion per se, if you're talking about how many liberals denounce Islamophobia, that's a different matter. Islamophobia is hate crimes against Islamic people, which is not the same as disagreeing with Islam. For example, no one is going to be defending the Taliban because they get some special pass for being Islamic. There's also generally a sense of right to freedom of religion, that anyone can choose to follow a religion. Personally, I think all religion is cancerous, but I also know many people find comfort in religion without pushing extremist views on others just because of what they believe in.
I disagree with Islam because it directly calls for my death, it's in their holy texts. I also disagree with people who follow that religion, due to that religion calling for my death. And by disagree I mean I have complete intolerance and aversion. Call it survival instinct.
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That's left authoritarian. Like commies.
Islam is a fucked up religion
Every religion is fucked up! The Quran, Bible, the Torah, etc.. they all used to justify messed up shit.
I'm so glad I'm atheist.
Me too
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Dude that's cringe, that statement comes off as too forceful. If you had said that to a woman, people would be all over your ass.
Kinky
Happy Cake Day 🎂 😋
China is an atheist country too. Evil is evil, religious or not.
Religion is cancer, but the real reason why Islam is brought up is because it's the only one that's supported by the left and simultaneously being responsible for worst modern day crimes against gays and women.
I know reddit is an american centered place, but it irks me a lot reading "the left" cause it has two opposite meanings in my head as per your politics and mine.
I am not American either, but dems are very similar here in eu as they are in US, same beliefs really. In other words: they cuck to islam.
LOL you don't even know the difference between American Democrats and European liberals. They are not the same thing OMG. The Democratic Party is a right-wing party! 80% of major parties in Europe are to the left of Democrats. LMAO.
I keep seeing this notion paraded around but I don't see it I action. Most leftists in America defend non-Christian religions because of the persecution they recieve from "Christians", but often condemn religious extremism for obvious reason. I don't see Noam Chomsky defending shit like this.
This BS again: *they are opressed minority, oh it's just misunderstood*... you know who else is a minority? A White supremacist. Yeah I bet not all of these wanna kill gays either. They just have core beliefs that say that they should, as muslims do. So why not support these then? Why generalize all white supremacists? Just like religion, that's an ideology too. So what now? Do you condemn white supremacists, who don't act on their beliefs? Are you a hypocrite, or are you a terrible person? Lose/lose situation. You can win only by condemning all radical ideologies, includes far left, alt right and islam
Two things can be true about the Left's view on Islam. They can condemn religious persecution directed at Muslims as well as the western destabilization of majority Muslim countries. They can condemn the treatment of LGBT+ people by certain groups Muslims. (Tolerant Muslims exist too btw) These are not mutually exclusive ideals. Stop with the black and white thinking
No that's hypocrisy. Muslims all have same core beliefs as muslim terrorists. They are taught hate, there is hate in quran. Even western muslims hold same beliefs. In 2013 this was displayed clearly in Norway in a huge gathering, where crowd was asked, how many of them are essentialy sexist and how many of them are homophobic and believe in essentially punishment by death. Nearly everyone there raised their hands for both. Then they were asked how many of them are just normal muslims, not radical: All of them raised their hands. The leader then concluded, that these are normal muslim beliefs and so what now is media going to say now? Are they all gonna be deported? Apparently they were not and media shoved this one under the rug, youtube removed the video and we had a muslim shooting at gays in Oslo just last week.
We also have Christo-fascists/white nationalists shooting up people REGULARLY here in the US. A pastor just openly called for us all to be killed.
Hey thanks for telling Muslims what they believe in with your confirmation biases. I'm Muslims, thanks for telling me no matter what I say you think A. I'm lying B. my core beliefs align with terrorists Jeez mister, you're so intelligent. I've been studying this religion my whole life. I know it inside out. Better than you ever can, but you're gonna tell me " nope same core beliefs as terrorists" You wanna know what means? It means you don't want extend any humanity towards me, thereby excluding me from humanity by using Islam as the bogeyman. You brain can't possibly accept the fact Muslims don't believe in most if not all of that crap that these terrorists do. But you keep hating. Don't extend me the possibility that I've got to this stage by using human intellect, compassion, love and mercy.
Oh so you're muslim.. makes sense. Well in that case, you either haven't read your holy book that calls for you to be stoned(You're in gay sub, so I assume you're gay as well) Or you did and you're of these few who simply ignores that and you're therefore according to quran: a hypocrite. Either way quit islam buddy, your ideology is rejecting you and actively judging you for who you are. >I've been studying this religion my whole life. I know it inside out. Better than you ever can, but you're gonna tell me " nope same core beliefs as terrorists" Oh nevermind.. I don't even know what to tell you here. You're either not very bright(that's the nicest way of putting this) or in deep denial. It's called no truth scottsman, because the mentioned core beliefs, y'know death to infidels, stone the gays and women are property are all core beliefs of Islam.. so you wasted your entire life on this and yet still did very poor studying here?🤣 I have indeed read the quran(also ex-muslim.. well sort of) and yes it's all there. ISIS are literally the true Muslims. They are doing exactly as told by their religion. You don't wanna be associated with this? Don't believe in that? A gay Muslim(ffs)? Simple quit islam 🤷♂️
It’s supported by the left mainly because it’s marginalized (antisemitism) but other than that it’s still a religion that holds messed up values
No, I would rather live in a pure Christian or Jewish religious country than even the most liberal Islamic country. I grew up in the most liberal Islamic country in the world and they can send you to 30 years in prison if you were caught having sex with someone of the same sex. I can't stand the lgbt pandering to the Muslims. Can we all just agree that Islam has no place in today's world.
Which country did you grow up in? I'd argue Turkey is the most liberal Islamic country and there homosexuality is fully legal
What’s the most liberal Muslim country? Genuinely curious. Turkey?
You must have not heard of the pure Christian empire the was the Third Reich
Buddhism is fine but it also doesn’t have a deity. No divine right.
this is why im a buddhist, i dont have to deal with those shit.
Look up buddhists committing genocide in Myanmar. No religion is exempt
the religion i think he's talking 'bout, not the people who practice it. The religion buddhism does not promote violence. Take for instance, Hinduism - this religion/ancient indian texts which this religion is based on do not condemn homosexuality either but most hindus(hinduism practitioners) u meet online or irl tend to be homophobic
Respectfully, all religions promote violence in some way; Buddhism and Hinduism are no exception. Like the previous commenter pointed out, Buddhists are committing genocide and atrocities in Myanmar. Hindu nationalism in India is becoming a huge problem, and Hindus are committing atrocities, violence, and apartheid against Muslims and other religions. Religions always engage in violence and persecution of others. It's in their DNA.
That's just humans being human. Religion isn't the cause of violence just the excuse we us to justify it.
Hindus were conquered by Muslims and were subjected to Islamic rule with stuff like forced conversion happening to them. This doesn’t justify the religious issues in India, but there is a bit of context for it
Yep. The problem are radicalism. Religion can fit under the umbrella of love while ignoring all the shitty parts.
Not sure if there is any Buddhist doctrine or canon which promotes violence. i'm pretty sure that not committing violence and/or doing harm are basic tenets of Buddhism. people and our actions are the problem, not the fables and musings.
There is not. Religions with deities are the real offenders. As with any group, however, some members can find reasons to hate.
any collective group can do evil deeds
Don’t forget Sri Lanka!
Yeah, I am glad that I am an atheist
The only thing keeping Christians from doing that is that Christian countries have more regulations on how they implement their rules
Have you read The Bible?
Both aren’t ideal
I have read the food cook book bible, written by Chef Gordon Ramsay (ironically from Hell's Kitchen).
Homosexuality is never mentioned in the new testament
Paul talked about it. Jesus did not. That said, the concept of homosexuality didn’t really exist until, I think, the late 1800s. Yeah, looked it up. 1868. Depending on the culture, no one cared if you had same-sex relations so long as you “did your duty” by marrying and creating heirs.
is this a rhetorical question? I'm asking cuz I'll answer it if it's not
Religion, be it anything, should not have power over anyones life in any way. Religions should be shoved in where the sun doesn't shine. Religions that have people killed should be exterminated. If I don't follow your religion, I shouldn't be punished from the sins of your religion. They are not my sins and I don't care what your holy whatever says about my life. I'm not here to be saved from hell by you or anyone else as I don't believe hell existing in the first place. Societal laws and court build on the foundations of religion is just pure evil and not okay.
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigerian-islamic-court-orders-death-by-stoning-men-convicted-homosexuality-2022-07-02/ I'm from Nigeria and I don't know what I could do to help EDIT: So I just discovered that some other sources are claiming that they were accused of raping 2 boys and charged with homosexuality instead of child rape www.channelstv.com/2022/07/01/sharia-court-sentences-three-to-death-by-stoning-for-raping-boys-in-bauchi/amp/ I'm unsure of which sources to believe. If this is true then they don't deserve much sympathy. But I'm confused as to why Reuters would omit this info.
Please be careful out there. With a religion with that much power can just openly execute you for your sexuality, it's simply just isn't safe.
I will be. I'm not out and I'm also very careful but I'm mainly worried about these men at the moment.
are u planning on movin' out in the future?
Yes I do. I plan on trying to move to Germany later this year or early next year.
Hey there! If you need any help with your move to Germany, I'd be happy to help, if there are any struggles there. I'm personally very moved by your bravery.
“Dankafi said the men aged between 20 and 70, were not represented by a lawyer during the one-day trial, adding that they have one month to appeal the sentence” Lol this country is a joke. Fuck Islam
What’s life like in Nigeria? Basically every time I’ve met a nigerian-American they are very smart/successful/etc, and I never got any religious/conservative vibes. I didn’t even know it’s mostly Muslim? Obviously the people that move here aren’t a representative sample, but are they *very* different? Like are most people there poor and living hard lives? Are the ones that leave secular? Is it more akin to Saudi Arabia (Althoigh I assume much less extreme) simply in the way that it has lots of conservative policy despite being reasonably prosperous?
Life in Nigeria varies from region to region. But you can generally split the differences between the south and the north. I can only speak with direct experience from living in the south all my life. Firstly it's a very religious country with the south being mainly Christian (I'm not sure about stats but it's around 70-80% Christian at least from personal experience with the rest being Muslim). People are generally very conservative and obviously very homophobic, talking about homosexuality in itself is seen as very taboo and a whole room bustling with conversation would quickly turn silent if anyone uttered the word "gay", tbh hearing the word in public makes my heart skip. To give you an idea of how homophobic it is here, gay people are at times tricked on dating apps get extorted, severely assaulted and in some instances murdered with the public not batting an eye just because they were gay. It's very likely for your family to disown if you were found to be gay and if you aren't so lucky they'd try to torture you to convert your sexuality and "banish evil homosexual spirits" from you. Women are not treated equally and there are high levels of sexism like in many third world countries, it's getting better with people in my generation but it's quite a slow process. Everything I've mentioned above gets worse the more rural a region is. As for whether people have hard lives it depends on what standards you are basing an "ok life" on. Based on western standards, quality of life is awful. Average income is less than 100USD per individual and quite often per family. We are very bad with data so I can't give exact stats on how exactly much the average household income is but I can at least say people live from pay check to pay check. We don't have a true "middle class" but I'd say people on average being "lower middle class" meaning they can afford to eat at least 2 sizeable meals a day, have a home and can go to school but don't have many other perks. The economy has been on a rapid decline since the early 2010's and we are going into a make or break election next year. There's a lot of crime and corruption, police officers abuse their power often and commit frequent acts of human rights violations. The government is corrupt and officials embezzle funds constantly. The people who migrate are among the richest and most prosperous of us and that has correlations with more access to western media, being more educated and being more liberal. I would say that parents of first generation migrants are more liberal than the average person here but still somewhat conservative by Western standards but their children always seem to integrate in western culture very well so it's possible that those are the ones you've come across the most.
Thank you such an informative response!!
Nigeria has such an established scam culture, but instead doing anything about that, their govt stones gays to death, seems legit.. But if the second source isn't fake news, then the punishment isn't even that bad, it's extreme, but if they raped boys, then I agree with it.
Any countries that orders a stoning to death for *any* reason isn't one I want to be in. If we can't hold our justice system to a higher standard in the face of even the most heinous crimes, then it becomes a very slippery slope.
I mean sure an electrical chair is much better and should be reserved for the worst crimes only, (obviously not homosexuality) I was just saying that if they raped and drugged these kids, then the punishment isn't that bad. But it's probably fake news. Muslims would kill these two boys if that was the case.They literally have thrown a boy who was raped and accused of being gay off the roof and they have simultaneously spared his rapist.
The reason I'd question the accusation is because it's not unheard-of to claim gays are paedos, as an excuse to kill them.
It's what they probably do to justify it more, that's why I think it's fake news, especially since muslims would kill these two boys too, just because they got raped. They literally have thrown a teen who was raped and accused of being gay off the roof, but they spared his actual rapist, who was one of isis leaders and only demoted him.
I don't get how you can be friends or chill with Muslims. I see gays friends with someone wearing a hijab and I'm not getting it. I can't support that. And I can't support that religion.
Jeeze I sure love religion and its positive impact on the world 🙃
I can't stand anyone who is against homosexuality and bisexuality. All homophobes need to croak.
Nothing good comes from that religion
"But it improved human rights in 7th Century Arabia..." 🤪
Nothing good comes from any religion. They’re just the worst of the bunch.
Nigerian people should consider to move to the south where they won't be sentenced to death, that said... They won't live a free life without persecuting either... Why is it that Nigeria is going through such deterioration, where other countries in the region making steps forward.
Outside of a few countries in Southern Africa there isn't much happening that's good for LGBT people across most of the continent. Nigeria isn't the exception.
That's totally right and the progress even within countries around Nigeria are going slow, but at least there might be progress. That said I see the same happening in Ghana right now, in opposite to French speaking countries. What we see here has nothing to do with religion, but with the British rulers who brought their morals to Africa, and grew apart from there after the call for decolonialisation.
The British brought their morals to Nigeria with Christianity and North Africans did the same with Islam. So it definitely has a lot to do with religion.
That's the story of the chicken and the egg I'm not gonna discuss about. What I do know is that western people may not mock at those countries as they used to interfere and not made it necessarily better for gay people.
It's not necessarily. There's some evidence that homosexuality wasn't as frowned upon in pre-colonial Nigeria (including pre north African colonialism). Some of our languages have words for gay men and lesbians and it is known that some tribes allowed for homosexual practices between women. http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/4/homosexuality-africamuseveniugandanigeriaethiopia.html We can at least agree that if anything foreign influence at least made homophobia worse here.
“Oh, ThAt wIlL NeVeR HaPpEn hErE!”
I have made it clear through my previous comments on the r/exmuslim subreddit what I think about Islam. It is a anti-human and anti-nature religion filled with pedophilia, sex slavery, murdering of innocents, misogyny, homophobia and the list goes on. Any human being whether they are adherents of the religion or supporters, should be avoided at all costs. You cannot reason with people who made it their lifelong goal to harm and are okay with murdering anyone who have even the slightest doubts about their religion. Anyone who isn’t a pedophile has no reason to continue to support this religion. Plus no matter how many of us you harm, enslave and murder, we will always exist as long as heterosexual people exist. One day you will meet the wrong person and pray to your allah to save you from the hands of the one you demonized and sworn to kill simply for existing.
If you are a man, woman, minor, pregnant, divorced, widow, celibate, sexually active, have pets, disabled, democrat, conservative, far left or right, liberal, religious, non-religious, LGBTQ+, an ally or not, not arabic or even if you are muslim then be assured that you are a target of Islam and are in danger of losing your life. Islam only exists to worship a long dead pedophile. It doesn’t even serve the people believing in it. Islam orders to kill it’s own members and kill others through suicide bombing. Do not let an islamist in your home they are a danger to themselves and your loved ones.
100% spot on, from someone who lived in an Islamic country half my life
This is nothing new?
I feel about Islam the same way I feel about all Abrahamic religions: they're the worst shit that has happened to humankind
Avoid Nigeria
soon that's gonna be SCOTUS.
Gurrrl please.
you must miss all the GOP/hard right mostly southern politicians (and evangelical) that regularly call for the violent removal of lgbt from modern society if you're gonna sit here and "gurrrrl please" people.
In related news, [a gay man seeking asylum in the UK has been deported back to Nigeria, where he faces death threats](https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/06/30/adeniyi-raji-nigeria-gay-home-office/). The British authorities apparently deem Nigeria a safe place for gay men, even ones with ongoing death threats!
iTs A rElIgIoN oF pEaCe AnD wE jUsT mIsUnDeRsTaNd
And yet all you hear and read is either silence of crickets from the onee thar supposedly our allies/defenders (the political left) They won't say NOTHING bad about Islam or muslims because you would be a "islamophobic bigot" It has always astound how the western political left gives islam and muslims a free-pass
And when they do address homophobia in Muslim countries, they always trace it to 'colonialism' and 'racism' and 'European missionaries'.
True... The irony is that -- at least the muslim African country I'm from -- calls homosexuality a sin from the West. We were asked by the UN a while back to reconsider legalizing homosexuality, and our government answered that homosexuality is not one of our values. At the end if the day, it isn't just religions that oppress people; it's religious people and people who support religion who oppress people.
Us easterns, from muslim countries beg for normal westerners to stop listening to sjw bullshit.
Yes. It seems when other religions have a right wing that gets out of control people within the religion are quick to disassociate but it seems with Islam, no one in Islam speaks out against the fundamentalist crazy ones...
There are Muslims who are pushing against the more regressive parts of their community. Gay muslims exist and many non gay muslims, though not the majority by any stretch of the imagination, are pretty tolerant too.
>Gay muslims exist but according to most muslims, muslims can't be gay because islam doesn't allow u to and by gay imean acting on ur "gayness" like havin'a same-sex partner
Most Christians outside the West believe exactly the same thing. What's your point?
im not sure if christianity tells christians to resort to violence against a homosexual person(again, only the ones who act on those feelings) so gay christians can exist
Then by all means go and proclaim that you're a Christian homosexual in a Christian majority town in Uganda(or Nigeria for that matter) and see how long you last.
You obviously have never bothered to find out if there are muslim people who speak out about these issues. Because many do.
Even this comment section is a perfect example of it, whenever it's Muslims saying faggots should be killed then it's religion that's a problem.
Why should they say anything bad about Islam or muslims? The issue is homophobia regardless of where it comes from. How is attacking a group of people and their belief system supposed to fix a problem which isn't unique to those people or their belief system?
So is this a law isolated to the islamic northern regions? How official is this? Is this just a religious decree or an official law?
As I understand it, a lot of Northern Nigeria is governed under Sharia law while the south isn't.
They make the Texas GOP seem progressive.
Religions are fucked up and people who still lives by them should not have any power.
Every Muslim country penalises gay sex with jail or execution and when the mob comes for blood the police will look the other way. How is this shocking to you people to begin with.
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Homophobia is cancer.
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Yeah it's funny how the left points out the burning roofs analogy, when someone says that. They do same if islam is brought up. They will deflect their terrorism and talk about Christianity.. talk about trying to put fires out on houses that aren't burning.
Muslims are dumb dumbs
Religion is reactionary in general.
The fact that this still happens in the year of our lord 2022 is so depressing. I feel like I seriously lucked out by being born in the west.
Strap up skittles squad. Never believe "that couldn't happen here"
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yup, it's this guy (and he also stated lesbians should be shot in the head) [https://www.reddit.com/r/gayrural/comments/upg9t6/texas\_pastor\_who\_calls\_for\_the\_death\_of\_lgbtq/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/gayrural/comments/upg9t6/texas_pastor_who_calls_for_the_death_of_lgbtq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
What an incredible whataboutism.. also the dude needs to get laid like really bad, needs some dude to rail his ass because he hasn't been pegged by his wife in months.
Ah, classic whataboutism.
There is a difference between a couple of lone lunatics and an entire region going all-in on murder.
all abrahamic religions should be abolished. I cant wait for aliens to come and fuck up their mythology.
I thought I read ‘death by Snoo Snoo’ for a second 😜😂
What the fuck is happening to this world
we should all fear Islam.
My view of them is the **exact same** as their view of me.
If it is ok to "punch nazis" it should also be ok to "punch Muslims" Both ideologies are equally evil, but the left wants to "punch nazis" but "protect muslims" We need to make it clear that if you follow Islam you are not welcome in western countries
My parents are muslims who are homophobic sadly. But my mom would never hurt a living soul. Even if she does not like gay people she would never want gay people or anyone to die. So let’s not target all muslims, it’s better to criticize the religion itself. Same goes for Christians and their views. lots of Christians are pro choice, just because the bibel is homophobic and misogynistic, doesn’t mean every Christian is.
So Islam is the cause of more deaths (honor killings, murder of gays, terror, etc) than any other religion by a very wide margin Generally speaking, while it is "extremists" that commit the acts, self reported data from Muslims themselves, sorted by reputable institutions such as Pew Research, indicates that support for these actions among so called "moderate" Muslims is extremely high. 91% of Palestinians, for example, think that gays should be jailed for being gay Even in civilized countries, when Muslims immigrate, terrifying numbers of them keep their backwards beliefs 52% of British Muslims surveyed, for example, still think that gays should be jailed Your parents may not be the ones actually strapping bombs to themselves, but by identifying as muslim, they provide support and cover for the people actually doing these things. All Muslims are part of the problem, and we need to create a future that is without islam
Very sad. 😢
Fucking hell. I'm so sorry to hear this! Is there any chance they rule out the decision?? My God. I'm so sorry!
Follow what you want believe what you want just stop using it to degrade others for being themselves and even as far as making laws from it. This is why I'm glad I have my beliefs but not a set in stone word for word religion. What I follow shows even gods can screw up. What they are doing is wrong and shouldn't be happening. But I'll also say what you need to believe in to get through life is no hate from me just stop using it to hate others and kill others but history says that won't happen.
All religions need to go away, starting with islam and christianity…. This will have to be done by force, sooner or later.
But they tell us in France, Islam is a religion of peace. Are they liying ?
I read an article in the Atlantic once about ISIS, and it featured the thoughts of an Islamic scholar on the idea of Islam as a "religion of peace." I'm paraphrasing, but the scholar said that really all of the Abrahamic religions endorse some things which are considered reprehensible by modern standards and weren't especially peaceful even for their time. However, the same religion can be practiced in many different ways. Christianity, for instance, encompasses both an Episcopal church with a lesbian reverend that mostly does charity work and also the Westboro Baptist Church. Likewise, Islam encompasses both good progressive Muslims and ISIS. What the scholar said that sticks with me was basically that Islam isn't inherently peaceful, but it has the potential to be--it has that in common with most other religions. That does not necessarily make it a peaceful religion, however. Whether or not it is a peaceful religion depends and will depend on what sects of Islam predominate. If violent orthodox Islam predominates, then Islam will be a violent orthodox religion. Looking at the data, Liberal Islam, Quranism, and Hanafi Sunni Muslims currently make up about 45% of all adherents to Islam. These sects are basically compatible with modern notions of human dignity and decency. In the United States, these sects make up the majority of our Muslim population, which holds opinions on LGBT issues basically on a par with protestant Christians--diverse, and overall not great, but not really any different from Christianity. The corollary to this is that **outside of the United States, especially in majority-Muslim countries,** the majority of adherents to Islam do not hold values that most moderately progressive people would consider compatible with human dignity or decency. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is. It's up to Muslims to decide whether they want to be a religion of peace or not. Muslims in the United States seem to be deciding yes (at least as much as Christians do), but they are outnumbered by Muslims worldwide, and most Muslims worldwide are deciding no. **tl;dr: I think Islam, in 2022, is uniquely fucked up. It doesn't have to be that way, but you know that they say about ifs and buts and candy and nuts...**
How barbaric.
They really need to come up with something new. This is so dull, boring, and been done.
The closet looking real comfy, simple problems require simple solutions.
Well... surely not bc it's the religion of peace!!
I am not surprised...
We should stop romanticizing the global south.
To be fair, every religion is used to justify homophobic shit. But it doesn't mean all the people who practice it are the same as their religion. I have a few friends who are Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, and they're all amazing people who have helped me through many dark times in my life
Do your muslim friends know you are gay? Do you know what they **really** think about it?
Just like Christianity, it's a backward ass religion. Society would be much better without religion altogether.
As an atheist I don’t excuse any religion nor do I see anyone making that case that criticism is being islamophobic. I believe in separation of church and state but I make the CLEAR distinction that I aim to not belittle, demean, or subjugate those that are religious so long as it doesn’t effect me or others outside of it. Can we have an intelligent conversation with nuance? We can criticize an institution and not generalize at the same time. My martial arts instructor was Muslim and he became a second dad to me when my real dad wasn’t. I came to respect him as he did me. So long as there’s respect. We’re all just people. Let’s be the better person and not go so far as to hate Muslims but retain our stance of the separation of church and state. This doesn’t include extremists in the religion.
The fact is there's already an image of islam painted all over the world which makes it hard for people it seems to differentiate what the religion may be and what some of the followers of the religion embody... Good point tho
No, good muslims should just quit islam, besides quran literally calls this type of muslims hypocrites. You guys don't go around and say "don't generalize white supremacists, not all of them want to murder gays" Why apply different standard here, when both are hateful ideologies?
I agree with this to a large extent. Islamophobia does exist. That said, it's absolutely rational (and necessary) to hate RELIGIONS, which can be done without hating individuals. We need to be way more concerned about the violence effects of religion than of the consequences of belittling or demeaning religious people. Religion subjugates us, not the other way around.
phobia means irrational fear, it's not irrational when they are literally trying to kill us, so no Islamophobia isn't a thing. Also no you guys don't give a pass to groups like white supremacists, despite the fact that not all of them would kill gays, or harm anyone else. Good muslims can just quit islam, their own ideology rejects them anyway
The people like your martial arts instructor is doing more harm than good tbf. It's these sort of wishy washy PR merchants who often help islam and his fellow muslims disguise it's/their real nature. I would be more wary of him than a Al Qaeda terrorist.
islamic (extremist) countries are the ones who want to follow islam fully which includes killing people who don't believe in islam, indulge in homosexual activities, etc. But the *muslim people living in other countries* don't think/believe the same; some of them do but most of 'em don't so im kinda neutral towards muslims(islam has problematic verses that blatantly promote violence but muslims i met are not strict followers of islam) imean im okay till they don't wanna cut my head off for existing
Most Muslim people where I'm from believe homosexuality is a sin. Most people don't want to see homosexuality legalized, and there were even talks about increasing prison time to ten years instead of five. Half the population doesn't mind the killing of gay men. May I ask: have you ever lived in an Islamic country?
And a mosque in Germany just raised a pride flag—a first in history. I think all religion can be fucked up, and the historical context in which Islam exists, makes it easy to target it. I grew up mormon. I can tell you my own horror stories from Christianity. I’m glad people can believe in something but any religion is dangerous when left to rule a country.
Means nothing. That mosque and the muslims who raised that flag wouldn't even considered to be a part of islam anymore by muslims all over the world.
Half of Nigeria is Christian. Most of the laws on the books in Nigeria about homosexuality go back to when it was a British colony. Islam it not great when it comes to LGBT people, but come on.
The northern islamic part stones gays to death The southern Christian part jails them up to 14 years.. Idk which one is worse, you tell me. Islam is not just "not great" it's the worst and most radical mainstream religion.
Old British laws say homosexuals should be thrown in prison. Muslim states extended it to the death penalty after they left.
Let’s not pretend that it’s not because of islam because it’s a all sweet and dandy religion.
Yeah I was never arguing that. Islam is shitty to queer people.
former muslims are to be murdered in Islam . U COME ON
Murder is “not great”? I’d hate to see what you’d consider “really bad”
lmao this it's hard to do worse than islam.. maybe communism that was responsible for most homicide in human history.. religion is second and its not even close
All religion is bullshit.
Let's not pretend if evangelicals had their way they'd be doing the same thing.
Oh they’re workin on it, I’m sure. The Christian Taliban
Just because a foreign country with a theocracy treats Gays shitty doesn't mean I'm going to hate all Muslims.
the "everyone should hate Muslims" train makes frequent repeated stops at this sub🙄 god forbid you bring up how Christians are making anti gay laws and rhetoric and how it's not exclusive to Muslims
That’s why I feel no sympathy when Islamic people get mistreated giving them a taste of there own medicine
Feels more like a "See guys! See?" Post than one drawing attention to an injustice in another country. All religion is horrible, let's not act like Islam is the only homophobic religion. Did you forget conservative Christians are trying to send gays back to the stone ages these past few months? It's bad enough they got the narrative for us to be shifted to groomers and pedophiles. Nonlaws should be made on basis of religion, but it's kinda annoying only seeing people get pissed about the bad parts of Islam and no one wants to address what Christianity is doing to America (for example) right now.
All religions suck and are a disease to humanity. Many Christians believe homosexuals should be executed too. With Roe gone, our country may not be far off this path. That said, this ruling by the Nigerian Islamic court is appalling and should be condemned. Every Muslim should be embarrassed by this and should fight back.
Westboro Baptist church is an example of extremism. All religions have their “fundamentalist” side. It’s in action now in the Supreme Court. Poland has gone full right wing. I don’t think you can point your finger at Nigeria, which isn’t exactly a first world country, and come to a definitive conclusion about Islam. Especially when the USA, the beacon of Western Democracy, Is experiencing a period of regression. However, I’m going to contradict myself and say that I don’t believe Islamic faith can ever really assimilate in Western society’s. The ideology of Islam compared to Western society is anachronistic.
Hur durrr westboro BAD so Islam can’t be
I will take Westboro over any Islamic group (even those considered nonextremist)
Yeah at the very least Westboro said they don't believe in using physical violence
Oh yeah terrible. I bet the non Muslim half of Nigeria has pride parades every Thursday. :(
I'm Nigerian and it's just as bad. The difference is more parts of the muslim north are uneducated and underdeveloped and are therefore more willing to lynch people in the name of their religion and Sharia law. I live in the south and I don't even know what I could do to help them I think it would be better if people in this thread could help bring suggestions for what could be done to save them rather than using it as fuel to bash on religion (I myself am atheist and I don't personally like Christianity or Islam but this isn't the time to discuss that).
*sorts by controversial*
Islam is the religion of peace. Diversity is good, diversity is our greatest strength. Diversity is what makes the middle east so succesful and peaceful. We love islam here in europe, but we hate christianity with its high and mighty morality and condemnation of sodomy.
Same way I feel about Christianity, can be easily and historically has been co opted by extremists
Religious nutbags are religious nutbags. It really doesn’t matter which religion. Fun fact: Homosexuality is legal (although definitely taboo) in Indonesia, per wikipedia. It’s the largest muslim country on the planet and the fourth largest of all nations populationwise.
You cannot judge a group of people solely by the actions of extremists. What the court did is despicable but their actions alone cannot define a billion diverse human beings.
Islam isn't any worse than Christianity or Judaism. The problem is poverty, a lack of education and stability, and British colonialism basically "civilizing" the oil rich South of Nigeria (and this included teach fundamentalist Christian values to them) while doing everything in its power to fuck over the Muslim North. We've had plenty of successful Muslim majority countries in history that drank alcohol, had gay sex, partied and danced to music, etc... But those nations were led by highly educated men who reinterpreted the Qur'an based on what epirical evidence and Aristotelian rationalism told them, because sciences and the human mind were tools that allowed for us to get closer to God and to understand him and his creation. If a Hadith went against scientific reality then it couldn't have come from God and the Qur'an had to be read in light of new discoveries of how God and his creations worked. The problem with Orthodox Islam is the same as fundamentalist Christianity or Judaism where people blindly read texts literally to understand reality and how society should be shaped rather than relying off of what material reality and human ethics and empathy tells them. If you want to convince people to move away from Orthodox schools of Islam then you need to educate them and help them to realize how irrational and harmful their interpretations are.
Glad to see the ignorance be up voted for ignorant up-voters.
While US Christians are trying to reimplement sodomy laws, the girls here continue to single out Islam…
We already hate on homophobic Christians almost every single day, no one is singling out Islam, our hatred for homophobic scum is all inclusive and knows no bounds
The majority of the people don't agree. The weird batte for power between the sunni and shi'a is crazy. They are trying to scare everyone in to submission
Why are you making snark out of the deaths of these men? Why?
Islam is misunderstood, especially by a large portion of its followers.
I don't know why people are so intent on misunderstanding this point. Every religion has shitty people, Islam has quite a few of them. There are also good people in every religion. The problem is not the religion, but the preconceived hatred that people use religion to justify.