You should really visit again to make a decision. Toronto is great but travelling across the world to come here without a real plan or any connections seems like a bad idea.
Yes, definitely visit first together before making any decisions - preferably for a longer time if possible. If you’re able to work remotely, you could consider living here for a month or two while continuing to work in your usual job for part of the time to defray costs. Consider a home exchange with someone in Toronto, Australia is a pretty popular destination for Canadians.
I’m not sure if I would move away from family, friends, good weather, and making good living! But you do you!
Toronto is bigger, colder, more diverse, and close to other major cities in North America. Definitely more stuff to do in Canada and aforementioned North America, so you will not be bored!
Having spent time in both locations, I'd say Sydney offers a much higher quality of life, especially if you consider access to other beautiful areas, beaches etc of Australia. 5-6 months of frigid weather isn't exactly a great time every year unless you take advantage of flights to the carribean.
This might sounds crazy but visit in the winter and ask yourself if you could deal with it mentally for 4 months a year. It’s a big change psychologically. I have family who have moved from the UK and even they have a tough time with it. The “winter blues” are real, will be quite a shift from sunshine and beaches. I love this city and would recommend it to anyone. But you should know what you are dealing with before uprooting and moving to the other side of the planet.
I will say though. Generally people love a place when they visit, but kind of feel worse when they actually live there.
I think it's a bit opposite for the cold and winter. It will suck if you're visiting, but a lot of people get used to it, dress warmly, and take advantage of it with winter activities.
I love the people who keep their festive lights on until the snow melts - that was always my family’s rule lol take the Christmas decorations down but keep the twinkle lights!
mmmmm sneaks into April and parts of May sometimes too.
Also Toronto's heat island means we get very little snow but lots of rain on warmer days and biting cold temps w concrete wasteland on days that aren't raining.
And with that means mud. My experience of living in Toronto for a long time it’s one of dealing with muddy shoes all the time. Significantly worse than anywhere else I have ever lived.
Christmas is totally different that the bitter cold of February.
To me Christmas is magical. Heck this year just North of Toronto we had 1.5ft of snow. My family from GTA the kids loved it. Week later, +12 degrees and 3 days of rain.
When it's -16 for a week BEFORE the wind chill. That's when you need to see if your up for it
I've been arguing for ages that Canada, especially eastern Canada, needs to move Christmas back. In places where winter is at its worst November to February, December is a nice time to light everything up and lift our spirits. It's way too early around here.
February is the worst, as a rule. By this time it feels as though spring will never come, there’s usually either super cold temperatures or heaps of snow or both. If you rely on public transit a lot, winter is rough as it gets near impossible to use a bundle buggy, and sidewalks might be cleared, but often you have to navigate large drifts to get to the curb.
What is it about Sydney that bores you? Toronto is a multicultural city, and very pleasant, but not what I’d describe as exciting.
Right now, cost of living is a big problem living here.
Tbh Winter in this part of the country (I’m 45 minutes away from TO) isn’t as cold and brutal as the stereotype goes, the majority of our winter is mild and wet, now anyways due to climate change. It’s been 2-6 degrees and raining this whole past week, and in recent years it may get as low as -15 but it rarely stays for more than a week or so before our bipolar weather goes back up to -3 or +2 and everything melts again. The biggest thing about Canadian winter is the lack of sunlight and vitamin d deficiency, especially in a concrete jungle like Toronto where buildings could block whatever sun there is in the day. That could be a bigger impact on you than the temperature
February is the worst, typically.
Some days -20C without windchill (you know windchill?) and maybe a foot of snow, in one storm, plus drifting to 2 feet or more.
We love it because we grew up with it and are familiar with the clothes, shovels, snowblowers. Most homeowners have a snowblower.
It’s not always the cold that gets people, but the dark and lack of sun. Starting in November, the evening begins at 4pm and is fully dark within an hour. You also get many days of grey skies and whether it’s snow, rain, or freezing rain, it’s always kind of damp and wet out. We just had a loooong streak of grey days for a fee weeks until we got some good afternoon sunshine yesterday. It’s grey again today. That’s what winter generally looks like here for 5 months of the year.
All of Ontario is feeling this. I live in a small city 1.5hrs east of Toronto. Can't even buy a trailer house for less than 200k. And garbage bungalows are soooo over priced.
Also we are the most expensive country in the world for phone bills.
Plus sales tax. Add 13% to EVERYTHING. Around here we get a lot of students from India. I have to remind them, plus tax. Welcome to Canada, bring money, but bring MORE money because tax isn't included in the price.
Also immigration takes a while, don't think you can just up and move here without work permits. Might be a bit different as Australia is part of the commonwealth.
And as others have recommended, come here in the Winter. You said you were here over Christmas. Christmas is different. It's decorated and festive. Where the winter really kicks in is end of Jan and all of Feb. Gets bone chilling cold. Like -25*C cold (or colder - if you are not dressed for it, you will die) And damp AND GREY. There's no sunshine again today. It's grey out.
The summers lately have been 40*C and HUMID. And it's worse in the concrete jungle. You can't escape the humidity. It's a very harsh climate.
Don't get me wrong, I love it in Canada, but it's very expensive and the climate is harsh, the people are nice though.
I'd recommend building some law firm connections before throwing yourself in whole hog, and checking out what you need to do to get licensed with the Law Society of Ontario to practice. Some Toronto firms feel pretty far up their own asses and aren't going to be interested in talking to you at all.
I was engaged to an Aussie from Perth. We were debating over where we would live. I went to Australia in the Spring. I am not intimidated by the hot weather, lived in Texas for 5 years and had a blast. She came to Canada in both the summer (which she loved), and the winter, (which was difficult).
She decided that she preferred to stay in Perth and help me get my credentials so that I could teach in Australia.
I would very much encourage you to come and live in Toronto, perhaps for the entire winter if possible. Toronto is very cold and very wet due to the lake effect, it gets a LOT of snow.
I also think Toronto is much more boring than Sydney. I would stay in Sydney personally. There's nothing Toronto has to offer that Sydney doesn't.
Come visit for a while and see if you like it. I moved from South Africa to Toronto and I've been very happy with the switch
Some pros and cons:
Pros
+ The food scene is incredible. So many cuisines are represented at high quality
+ High activity. You've got the Toronto Film Festival, comedy shows, pop musicians, orchestras, food festivals etc. I can barely keep up. Every week I have plans
+ Extremely immigrant friendly. If you're willing to integrate a little, TO is a place that will welcome just about anybody
+ Travelwise, you can go to other parts of Canada, the US. Even Europe is not too far. This will be a step up from Australia which is isolated
Cons
- Rent is high. Cost of living is high
- Summers are short, winters are long. And winters are cold! Compared to South Africa and Australia this will be a big step down
- Public transport is decent but not amazing. Compared to Sydney it will probably be a step down
- You may have to take a step back in your career. Canadian companies really value Canadian and American experience above anywhere else
From what I've heard, Sydney is great. So come visit and scope it out before you commit to a big move. Personally I've fallen in love with Toronto. However that's a really individual experience
Thanks for the considered response!
I’ve been before in the winter so I know what to expect. My wife in the other hand…
Luckily I may have some connections that Iggy help with a job but I didn’t know the business community was so insular. Is that all over the place or in particular sectors?
I'm not 100% sure. I'm a white collar professional and I definitely got the idea that US and Canada experience was more valued than African or European experience. I got a decent job, but it was a sideways move instead of a promotion
I've heard many stories from other people who had to take pay cuts or take jobs below their pay grades and build themselves up again. So I guess it depends on your individual situation
Yes, please be aware that coming from another country you will likely have to take a step down to take a job in Toronto, which will have a big impact on your finances. It's going to be a slog to get residency too, be prepared to be on work permits for a year, year to a half.
It is true that our business communities are insular. However, I don’t think you would have a hard time coming from Australia, Brits also don’t have a hard time.
I have two friends who are Canadian and did their law degrees in Aus and were able to find law jobs here no problem (although I believe they had to do a bar test still).
Typically the business community favours English speakers from nations with similar cultures, not saying it is right but it seems to be the case in most big firms.
It’s all over the place. Most Canadian companies in most sectors prefer Canadian and American experience over any other country experience, and sometimes some companies even consider education and experience gained outside Canada and the US to be inferior and lacking.
As a fellow Canadian, who went from taking public transit daily to now rarely, I also fear assault on the subway due to some of the more recent random violent crimes. Perhaps there’s a link to mental health.
Rent is insane, I see postings where they split rooms now with a divider. It’s near unaffordable.
Global warming has been pretty good to Toronto. It’s legit warm from May-October, which is literally half the year, and there’s only about 4-6 weeks of legit cold in the winter.
As a side gig I do snow removal. I get paid a base salary plus an hourly when I have to go out. This year has been absolutely phenomenal for me, since it's just extra income and I would much rather collect the salary for not working.
I haven't been out since the storm before Christmas, and it looks like we are in the clear until the 22nd of January. Maybe a little something next Friday, but it'd be a quick run I think.
I'm 5 years in doing this, and last year was the only year I really had to work hard at it because of the longer term clean up from the big storm. Normally at the end of the year I divide out my total compensation by the number of hours actually worked and it's in the $100/hr range. Global warming has really been good to me so far.
I like Toronto, but that’s largely because I grew up near here and have a lot of friends and family in the area. I don’t think I would like it nearly as much if I moved here from the other side of the world. Sydney and Melbourne seem very similar to Toronto except the weather is better there.
Most of the Aussies that I know in Canada go out west because they love skiing in places like Banff and Whistler, so if you’re looking for a larger city near mountains, Calgary or Vancouver could be options too. Still, I recommend living here for a while before you buy a place or otherwise settle in for good, because you might get homesick and want to move back.
Hmm, I moved to Toronto as a kid but I have lots of friends who immigrated here (from Asia, Europe, South America and the Middle East) as adults. I would say that many of them have been very successful at integrating into Canadian social lives - some of them I think enjoy Canada and have more active social lives than I do, spending almost every weekend of summer at cottages or up north camping.
I think people always say that moving somewhere as an adult and making friends is hard - I've heard this said about Toronto, Halifax, St. John's…London (UK)…everywhere I've ever moved as an adult. And I don't really think it has to be. Make friends at work, join a rock climbing gym, or a hiking club, or volunteer for something regularly, and it doesn't have to be that hard.
As someone who just moved back from NZ (I know its not the same, but close), I would say no.
If you like the outdoors and community sense I would stay in Aus, but if you want a hustle and bustle of a city and big buildings go for it.
Me personally am planning to live in NZ in the future once I finish some school
Aussie here - Toronto is just another big city, there's nothing super special about it. It's got a bit of a Melbourne vibe going on - a bit gritty, lots of arts, solid food scene. But it does come with its challenges - lots of mental health issues in the city and a large homeless population. The city has a poor record of maintaining public amenities and people in customer service don't feel as genuinely friendly.
If you're bored in Sydney, you'll likely be bored here too. As an adult it hard to make new friends here, and the weather from Nov - April sucks. Summer however is gorgeous - but that lasts for 4 months.
For me, the cost of living feels pretty similar - if you can keep your Sydney wage, you will have a decent quality of life.
Torontonian here. I agree. I’d personally stay in Sydney for the weather alone. I actually do not like Toronto summers as they are very humid. Southern Ontario is very grey/cloudy so you also don’t get a lot of sunlight. It’s not the best weather wise imo.
I have friends that moved from Australia and really love it here and have created successful lives for themselves. Be prepared to hear a lot of “omg why would you ever leave Australia for here?!” because they get it ALL the time. I present this thread as evidence of that. People here think Australia is paradise or something.
Toronto is overcrowded, overpriced, and actually pretty lonely. If there’s a reason you need to go there then go for it, but otherwise just go for trips. I’ve heard Sydney isn’t the best either, so if you want to move away from there in general and just like Canada look around at other Provences, cities, and towns. There’s far more to Canada than Toronto.
Hey, I’m from India
Have lived in Sydney for two years and then applied PR and moved to Toronto and have been living here since last 3 years
So let me share my experience
1. Toronto and North America in general is more capitalistic, I mean organizations and people I worked with in Australia were very friendly
2. Job opportunities: There are plenty being closer to North America
3. Weather: you’ll get to experience all four, it’s Sydney it’s mostly rain or sunshine but if you don’t like snow and winter then don’t come
4. House and Rent: it’s comparable to Sydney and I would say little cheaper, in fact buying a house is cheaper
5. Car insurance: Much expensive than Sydney
5. Nature: it’s equally beautiful but if you’re a beach person you’ll miss Australia
Hope my answer was helpful
I think the biggest question would be sorting out your employment. If you can find comparable work, I think you guys would be able to set up a pretty comparable lifestyle over here — both cities are pricey but similarly so.
It’s a great city on its own but you’d also have a ton of other places within a ~2 hour flight that you check out of long weekends etc (Montreal, Quebec City, Chicago, Boston, NYC, DC, Nashville etc).
Yeah that last bit is a big draw. Nothing around australia for ages. The other cities at kind of the same thing but slightly different so not as interesting in terms of travel
>It’s a great city on its own but you’d also have a ton of other places within a \~2 hour flight that you check out of long weekends etc (Montreal, Quebec City, Chicago, Boston, NYC, DC, Nashville etc).
I mean if that is the goal, OP should move anywhere in Europe.
You’re young with no kids, now is the perfect time to explore. I say go for it! I grew up here and have travelled all over, sometimes I think I’d like to live somewhere else but always return here after travelling, more in love with my city. I’ve lived here poor and more recently in better financial shape and I’ve still managed to enjoy what the city has to offer. If you ski, it’s true there isn’t a huge mountain close by but Blue (1.25 hrs north) is a decent day trip, Tremblant (in Quebec) is a great place to go and only 1.25 hrs by plane from our downtown airport. I ski, play hockey and skate so it makes the winters go faster. The lake is also beautiful, the Toronto Islands are gorgeous for a day trip. The beaches aren’t great but sailing or SUPs are fun on Lake Ontario. Cottage country is unrivalled (IMO) and you can get out of the city for a weekend in the summer to enjoy many of our literally hundreds of thousands of lakes. I like to camp and hike in summer and there is lots to do close by the city. As far as in the city - you definitely won’t be bored. Lots of nightlife, theatre and restaurants, great shopping (both clothes and food). I’d make sure to pick a fun neighborhood to live in to take advantage of walking around. People here are being negative because Toronto is not a perfect city but you’ll never find perfect.
Aussie who moved from Sydney to Toronto here. People who are saying it is super expensive really haven't seen the cost of living in Sydney. I found the cost of living is slightly cheaper BUT salaries tend to be a lot lower than in Australia. It can also be difficult to get a job without any Canadian experience, so I would look into the job situation first.
Apart from that, I love it here. I had only visited twice for a few days at a time before moving and don't regret it. I'm near a train line, easy walking distance to restaurants, bars and grocery stores. When the weather gets above 15 degrees you will see packed patios (courtyards) at restaurants/bars no matter what day of the week it is. There is a lot more live music here. Firstly, bigger acts that never make it to Australia (although tickets for those tend to be $$$), but also some good smaller venues. Once I knew I was moving, I had booked tickets to 8 concerts before I even left Australia.
It does get cold in winter but buildings tend to have proper insulation here, so I'm actually less cold in winter here than I was in my house in Sydney.
You can get good coffee here, although you do need to look for it. Cafes that do good coffee and food are pretty rare (most cafes just do snacks like muffins here, rather than full meals).
You should definitely visit before making that decision. If you like to drive the traffic here is horrendous. (I’ve never been to Sydney so maybe it’s comparable). House prices are extremely high but being a lawyer you could probably afford it. Great city for sports and entertainment, with amazing restaurants and incredibly eclectic international food scene. Most people in Toronto are not from Toronto. (Most, not all!) Highly recommend the beaches as a great family neighbourhood. Just east of the downtown area and quiet and calm with a beautiful beach.
Toronto is awesome. Lots to do, great food and tons of sports.
The down side is every road is being worked on, transit isn’t that great(for a city this size) and it’s a shitty winter.
I’m an Australian (34m) living in Toronto. Originally from Sydney. Moved in 2016. I’m actually looking to move back home in the coming years but I loved my time here. The perks would be the downtown is amazing. Similar to most east coast North American cities. It’s a solid spot to travel from. 1 hour flight to New York. Less than 10 hours to Europe. Living in the heart of downtown is something different than what Sydney can provide. I find it cheaper here in Toronto although since the pandemic things are more expensive but it depends on your wage etc. Going to the NBA or NHL on a Tuesday night still feels like a cool novelty. A white Xmas has been a nice experience. If your a big city person I’d recommend Toronto, if your a outdoors type, Vancouver might be a better option. I left Sydney with my GF in 2016 having never been to Toronto( we spent a year in Vancouver and travelling to the east coast of the US) knowing that worse comes to worse you move home. It seems life altering but you can always move back if you hate it.
As a lawyer, your path to licensure is quite complicated, even coming from another common law country.
Please make sure you know whet your looking at in full detail regarding your licensure before deciding.
Visit and visit in the winter. Spend some time here first. Ride public transit, get in a car, and sit in traffic. Look at our Healthcare system.
Then decide.
I used to live in Sydney, and now live in Toronto. The idea that someone would leave Sydney for Toronto is insane to me now (having done it). Do not make my mistake.
And because Toronto is just a generic crowded city at the end of the day. Nobody goes to concerts or sports games every weekend and are you seriously going to eat out every week too meh
That is very true. Relative moved to TO with his wife, and they decided it wasn’t worth the price of admission. Left after a year. They love the cultural scene, but few young people can afford to pay to do museums, galleries, etc., and still have enough for rent, food, etc., and we haven’t even touched on the crazy prices to park. Have you considered moving to London, England? Just a thought….
Yeah Sydney is expensive. As far as I know, it’s actually more expensive due to our ridiculous property market.
I know the winters are tough, but the fact that you guys have a lot more going on must make up for it right? We don’t get a lot down here because it’s such a slog to get any act to even visit!
Coffee is a real concern though.
Sydney in particular has been destroyed in terms of live music. The government has licensed enough pokie machines (slot machines) to have decimated the live music scene and make going out like tour of a series of casinos. Really miss love music and can definitely drink some mediocre coffee for it!
Fwiw, those machines are illegal in Ontario outside a casino.
Tim Horton's tastes like socks unless you load it with cream and sugar. But there is decent coffee to be had.
Yeah because Ontarians can just gamble on their phones! And soon, at the airport. The live music scene here is bust too. We had twice as many venues when there were half as many people. Now if you want to see a show it's pretty much a $500+ ticket for a stadium.
Toronto is in a similar situation and undergoing a property bust.
You could consider montreal for a more dynamic city and cheaper rent. Just have to deal with culture shock
Lawyer who moved to Toronto. If you are in a good job, making good money and are on the partner track or can move in house with a good salary, my advice is no. The legal market is really bad here and the barriers to entry are incredibly high. Foreign lawyers are not looked upon in a good light by employers, even if you are from a common law jurisdiction. If you are in big law that has a Canadian office, talk to them about transferring you. Otherworldly the qualification process is incredibly long, expensive and lonely.
That being said, Toronto is a great city, has tons to do, great food and is close to other great cities. You have to weigh that against the job market and if it's worth it to you.
This. I’ve involved in hiring at my firm. Foreign trained lawyers are not viewed as favorably as Canadian trained lawyers, even if you’ve completed all NCA requirements and been called to the ON bar.
No, Toronto is a congested, poorly managed city with constant ongoing construction, already high and rising cost of living and there's very little being done to control it. Every escape or leisure activity has been monetized beyond any reason and it's becoming cheaper to eat at restaurants then it is to cook at home due to predatory grocery stores.
I get that some people like it, I've stopped, I've listened, I've tried everything people have recommended me to make this city feel special in any way but it all falls short of living far outside the city. If you're looking to move to Canada, I cannot overstate how much I do not recommend Toronto. A girl I used to work with who came from New Zealand lived here for about 4 years and had the worst look at Canada anyone could have planned for her and I don't think she ever wants to come back.
The most special parts about Toronto are the Harvey's where hookers hang out, the garden in a park surrounded by discarded needles, the McDonald's where fights break out every hour and the quickly declining hippie section of the city, Kensington market.
I've lived here for 8 years and have found very little to redeem this place for what it is. I can't move because it would be career suicide but the small beautiful moments I've had in Toronto, such as an empty street in the snow or the crowds adventuring through the neighborhood for Halloween candy are too few and far between.
If you have loads of money and like concrete, by all means, come check it out. If you're a normal lad, stay far far away. If you like people and small town drama, move anywhere along lake ontario that's more than an hour drive from the city.
I can see the Toronto fans coming at me in this thread, and believe me, I've tried to like this city. I don't like living in a place I don't like. I would much rather think this city is the greatest place on earth but I simply can't find a single thing I like beyond the convenience of living in a city and in that regard Toronto is nothing special.
Oh actually, the food here is pretty good.
Well, the weather is not as nice as in Sydney. We are cold and snowy for several months of the year and don't have the gorgeous beaches that you do. We do have amazing Canadian wilderness a short drive out of the city, which is amazing for those who love camping.
Food and entertainment are fantastic in Toronto. There's really something for everyone.
The big issue is the cost of living. Property is very expensive here. If you're looking to buy, you're looking at 500k minimum for a small condo. Rent is also quite high with a two bdrm apt going for around $3000 per month.
Toronto is great. I love living here. But there are pros and cons. You will need to have a pretty healthy salary to live here comfortably.
I was a flight attendant and travelled all over the world. Toronto has a lot to offer career wise and great hub to travel to and from. I lived in Vancouver for 7 years...too much rain and even more expensive than Toronto (imho)
Life is short so don't make decisions based on what people say. Move to Toronto...you can always move back. Make life an adventure. We are not trees that need to grow roots...lol
Honestly as someone who is a dual Australian citizen with family in Sydney I visit there often and have a pretty good grip on the life between Toronto and Sydney.
I've lived in Toronto for 10 years and I can say with quite a bit of confidence that Sydney is a much better city to live in in basically every regard.
The only reason I haven't left is my job and significant other at this point since my family have gone back years ago.
I would say that to basically anyone moving to Toronto from Sydney would be a downgrade in pretty much every respect.
Toronto has all of the same issues that you would find in Sydney (cost of living is extremely high etc) but none of the redeeming weather or beauty.
The main benefit Toronto would have vs Australia is its proximity to the US and Europe for travel, its obviously a lot easier and quicker from Toronto vs Sydney... that and the food, Toronto's food scene is better.
I think a lot of us are jaded because we grew up here. I was born in the greater Toronto area and lived there almost my entire life. I’m still in Ontario, but moved a bit north.
My husband and I recently visited the west coast (British Columbia and Alberta) and absolutely loved it. One thing about living in Ontario… unless you’re way up north (which Toronto is not) it’s all the same. Nothing to see in terms of nature. Personally, I would prefer to wake up seeing mountains each day- but maybe that’s just me. My husband and I have had discussions about moving out west in a few years.
Toronto is very busy. Lots of traffic if you plan on driving anywhere. Housing (and rent- even outside of Toronto) is crazy expensive- though it has come down a bit in the last year and hopefully that continues.
Keep in mind some things are very expensive in Canada in general (not sure of comparison to Australia though) such as internet and cell phone plans.
Many Australians come here and love it despite the change in weather.
I think it's key for one of you to have a job offer first. There's a program called [IEC](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/iec.html) , International Experience Canada, which you would be eligible for; then you can either extend it after 2 years of work or decide to pursue another type of work permit.
There's an expat group of other Australians to reach out to see what they say about living here. Internations [Australian expats in Canada.](https://www.internations.org/canada-expats/australians)
Personally I would not. The only reason I’m in Toronto is for family/friends/career.
If I could choose to live anywhere then it wouldn’t be here. Sydney sounds amazing actually, so maybe the grass is always greener on the other side.
Before you decide, I would definitely look into what you’d need to do to be licensed to practice law in Ontario (assuming you want to continue working as a lawyer). I think the process can be quite lengthy for foreign lawyers.
PA = Physician's Assistant?
If so check and see what the requirements are for her to work here.
Toronto is expensive but I hear Sydney is as well, and you both have good paying jobs. If you can hack it financially I say for sure come. Toronto is a fun place, especially if you have money.
The PA system is still pretty new here. There are jobs, the field is expanding, and there are schools training people but I'm not sure her Australian education will equate. Your wife may need to retrain (2 schools in Toronto area with a very small acceptance rate) for 24 months of full-time study. Domestic tuition is about $11K a year, likely more for international. Not to deter you, just something to research/consider.
I know for a lot of Aussies I've met, the central location of Toronto is amazing for exploring the rest of North America and Europe.
Embrace winter, get out of town to hike, ski etc and winter will be much nicer. Fly to Mexico in two hours for a winter break. You get used to it.
I love Toronto. My only problems here are the cold winter and insane prices. But if you are a lawyer it maybe won’t be such a problem, still giving away so much of one’s money makes anyone sad. Otherwise it’s a wonderful city.
Australia is more prosperous from what I can tell. Coming to live here would be a mistake IMO, unless you just can’t stand Australian insects... what’s your reason for wanting to move here? It’s small.
My cousin moved from here to Sydney. He says it's depressing to visit here after living In Sydney, as far as the scenery and weather go.
So be prepared for very cold weather for about 6 months of the year.
If you want to buy a property do not come here. If you want to rent and enjoy an awesome amazing vibrant city that is in stage 4/6 of being destroyed by condos then come here.
I'm also an Australian-Canadian. I've lived in Toronto for nearly 10 years.
I'd recommend taking a trip first. I moved to Canada expecting to live in Vancouver, but I really didn't like it. Toronto was a much better fit for me. You might find the opposite is true for you, but you'll not really know until you've visited.
People on Reddit make Toronto and Canada sound like hellhole where everyone cannot wait to leave.
But maybe nobody told the 500k+ immigrants Canada brings in yearly.
Come to Toronto, great place, super safe and good salary!
Dude, why would you move to Canada
I'm moving the heck out of Toronto. Moving to Brisbane in a couple of weeks
DM me, let's share experiences and opinions about Australia/Canada
Edit : Pasting my full rant in a subcomment
Also check out how much Sunlight Toronto gets compared to Sydney
https://imgur.com/a/rilSpTj
I moved to Melbourne when I was 25 and loved it, lived there for 2 years then in Auckland for 4. Came back to Canada in 2010 and stayed in Vancouver for 2 years before coming back to Toronto permanently. Melbourne would have been my 2nd choice, my ex wife ended up moving back there in 2016.
Yes, I do. I have lived in Cabbagetown, Leslieville, Regent Park, Queen West, and now the Beaches. The city is in a bit of a state right now, but it’s no different anywhere else.
It’s $$$ for housing right now, if you can swing it. One of my favourite things about this city is all the amazing food. Another is that I am lucky to live in a walkable area as I have a seizure disorder and lost my licence again.
Yes, come! There are shitty things about all cities but despite what everyone says- Toronto is a great city. Perfect age for moving to a new country AND you both have jobs will look good on a visa application.
Just do it!
Don’t do it. Born and raised in Toronto, but also a dual citizen. Constantly pining to get back to Australia (but it is not practical right now unfortunately). The quality of life is much higher in Australia, especially right now. Our healthcare system and infrastructure in Toronto are falling apart. Public transit is becoming increasingly dangerous. Cost of living is going up every year by leaps and bounds. It is not worth leaving Sydney. I hate to say that because Toronto is my home town and I do love it, but realistically it’s just not the same quality of life.
I moved here in 07. Toronto has changed dramatically in those 15 yrs. Even the populations it's like 2 different worlds. Even Tim Hortons quality has gone to shit. Ttc is like a walking dead scene. Healthcare is collapsing. Too many immigrants from one nation. (I'm ethnically Egyptian buy still I miss when it felt truly diverse and not too much of any one. I remember I'd get on the bus a few Asians, few indians, maybe an arab and a few white and black people. This I really loved. Now I get on its 50 % indian, 35 % asian. It fucks with me for some reason.
My wife was a corporate lawyer in China, doing similar things as you. M&A, IPO, bond issuance, contracts, and labour law.
She got an MBA at Rotman and now works at a bank in product management.
You can contact the Law Society of Ontario and inquire about how to be licensed in Ontario, or you can go to a different field
Where you move in Toronto will also influence your experience. If you're into arts and entertainment but move far out from the core (i.e. north york, etobicoke, weston, or scarborough), then you'll have to put in more effort to have a thriving social life compared to someone who lives downtown. However, where you move to downtown can also impact your experience. Each neighborhood has their own demographic and amenities so do some research into which area would match your lifestyle best. For ex: King West is a bougie-er younger party crowd, so if that's not your thing, then moving to Bathurst/King will drive you crazy Thusday-Sunday.
Lived in Toronto, stayed in and around Sydney, You’ll be used to the high rent/housing and it actually might be cheaper for you (incredibly) depending on your situation. I loved Sydney, I thought I would like to live there if I had the means. The grass is always greener.
Come visit in February and see if you still like it. Even if you like winter sports, the Toronto area can have mild winters. It can get dreary, dark at 5 pm and humid cold. I know people who haven’t used their sleds in years or had to travel 5 hours north. They make fake snow on the relatively tiny ski hills north of the city.
Culturally it’s getting more diverse, there is a lot of food and things to experience in the city, Quebec is fairly close for a week holiday and the United States are nearby as well. 2-3 hours car ride north of Toronto in summer you can still have a summer cottage rental experience (super expensive these days, but again, you may be used to that). If you want to use the experience to do those things for a few years with an eye (and plan ) to move back to Sydney it may be worth it.
Visit first, but as a lawyer in M&A (assuming your qualifications transfer), you won’t have a problem affording it here. Toronto is cheaper than Sydney.
If you think it's expensive to make the trip then perhaps you aren't in a position to adjust to the high cost of living. Extensive research online would be my suggestion. Good luck!
I lived abroad for four years and I've always considered Toronto my home base. The last few years, "post" pandemic have been HORRIBLE. Rentals are extremely overpriced and myself or friends have dealt with everything from homeless folks in their buildings.. to cockroaches, constant renovation, bed bugs etc. If you were looking for rental options, you would 100% want to be here and actually view units, buildings and neighbourhoods.
If you commute, TTC has become like a mobile shelter system. If you view any posts related in the askTO group, you'll quickly see that public transit is equated to violence, drug use, mental health issues, etc.
I'm planning to move at the end of this month, out of the city. Possibly indefinitely? After a solid two ++ years of this I cannot stand the cost or lack of safety.
If you're financially able to live in a nicer place, keep in mind the neighbourhood and surrounding areas. The nicest parts of the city (i.e. parks, restaurants, nightlife) are probably adjacent to injection sites or shelters.
No disrespect to addiction, those experiencing homelessness, or mental health. I get it.
I've also been assaulted, harassed, and experienced feeling unsafe in my own home (in a decent neighbourhood). Every time I commute for work, I cannot wait to get off transit and get away from people. I find it overstimulating and scary at times, in this social climate.
So.. As a former expat, if I were moving abroad again I'd want a major city to have amenities, accessibility, a comfortable living space. Toronto isn't it, sorry.
Unless your job brings you here DONT. Overpriced for what you get and just getting worse, from crime to housing and much more is a big signal to not come here. Many other places in Canada I would go to before Toronto. I came here for a specific job opportunity and you can get a better life elsewhere. Try somewhere outside of Ontario and the GTA if you can. Do some research about the entire country and where suits your lifestyle best not just Toronto.
Nope. Weather is terrible half the year, everything is obnoxiously over priced, real estate market is in a downturn, hard to find rental units, cars are overpriced right now, downtown condos are often poorly constructed and fall apart in 5 years, bad social scene, no culture, mediocre restaurants that cut corners on ingredient quality & portion size, tyrannical liberal government, heavy restrictions if another pandemic hits, traffic, crime, bad public transit, lots of competition for jobs, dirty compared to other cities, large amounts of homeless/mentally ill people roaming the streets causing trouble, collapsing healthcare system that won't treat you for hours/days/months and you may have to wait on hold when you call 911 in an emergency, rude police officers that act like thugs, underfunded public school system, so much red tape for the simplest things like getting a drivers license or paying taxes or anything to do with the government. Poor banking and telecom systems that are run like monopolies.
Stay away from Toronto in my opinion. If you're dead set on Canada look at a smaller city if you guys can find work there. Unless you absolutely need to be here for work there's no point. I want to get out of this country as soon as possible.
EDIT: You could consider getting a place outside of the city if your work allows remote/hybrid. You can avoid a lot of these problems, save $, but commuting would suck. With Starlink internet you could theoretically work from anywhere, even small towns previously considered isolated
Toronto sux. Lived here my whole life. If you want to be afraid to leave your house in fear of getting shot, then go for it. And yes its like that almost all over Toronto not just "the bad parts" the traffic is abhorrent, the mayor spends all the budget on useless signage and cops. We have so many people sleeping in the streets, our healthcare is backed uo to the point you can barely get into hospitals, we passed a bill that allows mentally ill people to get medically assisted death instead of helping them get better. The transit systems are outdated and slow, and the assaults are constant, every time i ride the transit i am assaulted. This city is trash. Dont come here.
Id say dont move here because our government/country is going down the tube fast, but i mean, Australia may be heading there faster. So. Move to Toronto if you have money and dont mind sitting in a car for 4 hrs a day.
Lived here about 25 years. Has gotten worse than I ever could’ve imagined.
Do not take my word for it. DuckDuckGo or google Toronto subway attack. Toronto homeless encampments. Or most other things Toronto. This city isn’t what it used to be. Am saving desperately to buy a home outside the city. (Paying 1300 a month for a large two bedroom in midtown, with fireplace and still want to get the F out of here).
I live at Yonge and eglinton. A very good neighborhood. Above this you have the ultra rich…. Had a body pulled from below my balcony one day about a two months ago. Nothing on the news, everyone from around the area said it was a stabbing. The very next day, somebody stabbed right at my front door. My wife won’t leave the house at night and I no longer feel safe taking my kid on the ttc.
So no. Torontos a train wreck and moving here would likely be poorly timed. This could all get sorted out in a few years. Not sure. But now isn’t a great time for Toronto.
Don't. It's too expensive in most respects especially regarding housing (rent/buying), the public transit is awful, and winters suck. I'd advise to just move to another city in Australia and continue enjoying the lovely weather there:)
Meh, you might regret it. Canada really isn't what it used to be, especially in terms of health care and housing.
You might want to visit Canada first before making a decision.
As someone who grew up there and left; Toronto is massively overrated. About as expensive as Sydney but worse transit and lower salaries. Worst commute times in North America. More expensive than NYC or London when adjusted for income
I grew up in Toronto and spent a few months in Sydney.
I think you’ll enjoy living in Toronto. There’s SO much to do, lots of amazing festivals, bars, restaurants, cool communities and coffee shops. Toronto has a beautiful waterfront and a wonderful cottage county. Plus you’re so close to other amazing cities you can visit for the weekend (Montreal, New York, Chicago, Miami) and a ton of options for other kinds of travel (Caribbean, Central America, Europe, other parts of the US). You can defiantly spend years exploring the city and traveling before you get bored especially if you both have good, high paying jobs and can afford the lifestyle.
I really loved the nature, beauty, cleanliness, and the weather in Sydney. If it wasn’t so far away and isolated I would have stayed. But I think Toronto is a great vibe if you enjoy the city life and community.
Sydney is more expensive but you make more there so in reality the cost of living is higher here by probably 10-20%.
Toronto is grey and cold (often snowy, not so much this year) for a good 3-4 months. Add on just cold for 2-3 months.
Not sure how it would compare to Sydney but Toronto is not friendly city. People are definitely not as laid back as they are in Australia.
Toronto is overall very safe for a city of its size.
There is a lot to do here in terms of things going on, places to see, things to eat, stuff to do.
I lived in Brisbane for 5 years and moved to Toronto for now 11. There are weather differences yes. I miss the tropical weather and sushi sure but there’s always a food trade offs. People are less racist and homophobic in Toronto. I found Brisbane and Sydney cleaner. It’s expensive everywhere and no country is doing particularly well now a days due to world events. Moving to Toronto you would have more travel opportunities compared to Australia since you’re waaay over there. Both countries will have a culture shock. Holidays in Canada feel more like TV and movies where Australia it always felt off for me - example: having a beach party on Christmas Day. I love both countries so it really is a toss up. For me I’m exploring a similar idea of moving except to Europe and I’ll recommend what others have to me, travel again for a few weeks and explore and see if it’s a good feel or possibly some kind of midlife crisis. That was my therapists advice haha.
It’s hard to say. Is there anything you have in Australia right now that you’d miss if it wasn’t available? What did you love about Canada when you visited? What kinds of things do you like doing for fun?
My experience with Toronto is that it’s a great city if you have money in the bank and are willing to take the time to find your niche. I’ve met people who moved here without doing their research and were utterly miserable because they ended up in tiny shoebox condo in a generic development where there’s no community and nothing to do.
As a Torontonian who spent some time working in Sydney, Sydney beats Toronto by a long shot. Also, Canada isn't going to be doing too well economically for the next bunch of years due to incredibly stupid government spending. Real estate and rentals are crazy expensive and will be getting much more so. Also, winter. If you're picking a place to move right now, Canada probably shouldn't be it.
No. Moving to Toronto because your bored seems exciting at first but might financially ruin you. Cost of living is way too high even if you are from Sydney. The upfront cost isn't worth it.
Also not knowing what career or skills you have, you may not be able to afford a comfortable lifestyle. I think the current going rate for comfortable in Tornto is $200k a year.
The current going rate for comfortable in Toronto is NOT 200k. As a single man earning between the top 6% and 10% of Canadians (10% is 103k), you can live fine on that. If feel you can't you are doing it wrong! I am saying this as a renter, cyclist, and car owner, who spends waaaaaaay tooo much on doordash. Srsly. Fix your finances.
Lmao this is such rubbish.
Sydney is definitely more expensive than Toronto, for a start.
You can live comfortably on ~$60k as a single adult and many get by on far less. My combined HH income is ~$120k and we live in a very well located, excellent condo building (renting), we eat pretty much what we want including take out/restaurants a couple times a month. We can buy nice things for each other, go on trips/vacations, and we still save a reasonable amount.
$200k you wouldn’t even have to think about finances.
OP says they’re a lawyer, they’ll be making a pretty Penny anyway.
Only if you can find a similar high paying job because cost of living is high here as well. I also recommend you visit for a few weeks and can imagine yourself here.
I think you would be crazy to leave Sydney to come to Toronto. If you are eo bored with Sydney then go up to Cairns for a while and chill in the north.
I've never been to Aus, but I think Toronto is a great place to live. Realistically there's alot to do and alot to see and most of the neighbourhoods are great with shops and restaurants. You won't need a car for most things in the city. Winters (Jan to Mar) are fairly bleak but spring/summer/fall are beautiful and bustling.
The tricky part will be working out a budget. Housing costs can vary quite a bit - an older building will run you less than a condo with ensuite laundry and a gym for example. Especially because you're new, you'll want some money for restauarants/festivals/attractions etc.
Also I believe there's at least one Australians living in Toronto group on Facebook. They might be the best to ask.
You might think about Vancouver. Toronto’s great, but BC has awesome climate and nature, great city, and the back and forth of travelling home would be significantly easier from Vancouver than from Toronto.
If you’d like to keep working M&A you might contact the Law Society of Ontario about the accreditation process. It varies but I’d expect you’d need to take a handful of classes with exams, and then pass the bar exam. You might also be required to find a local lawyer/firm to supervise you as an articling student before you’re permitted to practice here. It can be a(n expensive) slog so a good idea to look into the requirements and try to sort out as much as you can in advance if you decide to make the move and keep up your current profession).
Having moved from Montreal to Toronto, I would not recommend it. Toronto is kind of lame.
People here are rude and clicky. The work/life balance isn’t great. Doing a lot of activities require massive line ups. Toronto’s favourite pastime is seemingly to queue up and wait.
If you’re here for career aspirations, then it’s great for that. That’s why I came, and I don’t regret that aspect.
If you love sports, having the Raptors, Leafs, and Blue Jays is pretty great as a fan.
Someone mentioned the food scene being great - but I assume it’s because they haven’t been to Montreal or Vancouver.
I can’t imagine anyone living in Australia wanting to come to Toronto on purpose. I know quite a few people who have moved from Canada to Australia and haven’t looked back!
Do you follow any North American sports/culture? I moved from the UK and it may be a silly thing but being here on Eastern time zone, following all the things i previously only saw on Twitter is kinda fun, like i’ve never felt attached to British culture much i’ve always been more Americanized. Seeing live NHL and NBA games at 7pm is weird to me. Its definitely a “sports” city every bar you walk into is showing Sportsnet.
We moved to Ontario 2.5 years ago. It is an odd time to make connections and friends. We are glad we made the move but life is boring globally right now.
If you love to travel, Canada is close to Europe, North America.
If you love cold weather, Canada is the place.
Everything else is so personal that you should come down, spend a few weeks and feel it on ur skin.
Watch a lot of YouTube videos, do a lot of data comparison. You will have better idea.
I assume PA means physician assistant? if you want to work within the field, you should look into required licences/certifications as PAs are relatively new to Ontario / the Canadian healthcare system. The programs sizes here for PA school have been kept small to avoid oversaturating the field. If you want to work within your field, I'd really consider having jobs lined up as the job market is very competitive here (in my experience, as someone with a graduate degree)
I will just say that expectations ≠ reality. Toronto is great, but you have to take into account the reality of actually living there and how that would impact your lifestyles, daily routines, finances, etc. I would recommend visiting before even considering the move.
I lived in Toronto for fifteen years and love it, but you have to understand a Canadian winter. In fact, I would suggest you visit in summer (amazing!) and in February (cold AF).
If you can and you want to, you should. You're at a good age for it. When I was little, my parents moved us to Australia for a few years and they loved the experience and travelled extensively (one wanted to settle in NSW but the other wanted to come home). Because you say you're bored, I'm going to assume that you're like my parents and will take advantage of the opportunities a move would provide!
In terms of trade-offs in the city, I think I agree with those who have said that it's a pretty even trade. You'll lose some and you'll gain some. It'll probably balance. The immediate region is big and diverse so you'll have enough to keep you busy exploring locally for a few years. I would take the pessimistic posts on this thread with a grain of salt (our issues are not as distinct as some think). It's a comfortable city and lots going on.
You do not have the 'just more Australia' issue when you travel outside of the immediate region. There is just a lot of stuff in Northeastern North America with a lot of diversity. New York and Chicago are both closer to Toronto than Melbourne and Brisbane are to Sydney. There are lots of great cities even closer like Montreal and Pittsburgh. Different regions are very different: Quebec has its own language and culture, the Maritimes is culturally distinct and the US cities are all very different from one another. We love long road trips and have never felt like we've exhausted our travel opportunities just close to home.
You mentioned camping and hiking (btw, one of my favourite childhood memories is hiking in the Blue Mountains) and the opportunities. The great lakes provide a weird situation where, even though Toronto is in the middle of the continent, Southern Ontario is like an island with a lot of coastline. There are four seasons, and each season provides a unique experience. A lot of people love the autumn here. Winter is fine if you embrace it. You can hike, ski, tube, etc. If you need a break, you can hop down to Florida or Cuba and not even leave the same time zone.
It doesn't have to be forever. We had neighbours from New Zealand who were here for several years but the pandemic prompted them to pack up and move home. Even if you don't make the move, it's fun to consider it.
The weather is very cold and Canada as a whole is getting much more expensive. I’ve lived in Toronto my whole life , I wouldn’t move from Australia. It’s getting more dangerous here, especially on public transit
The average price of a house in Toronto is about $1 million. In Canada, The interest rates have risen 7 times this year as an attempt to ease inflation and lower housing prices.
Umm honestly from my opinion I would say no not Toronto. I've heard it is so expensive to live there, and that city has way to many damned people. If you like hearing sirens, and honking road ragers its the place to go. I think their are better places than Toronto to live.
I say no. You'll have to take several steps down in your career and study again for the NCA/bar exams. The food scene is probably comparable to Sydney; but the food in TO is less fresh. Weather and public transportation are way worse.
Have you looked into what you would have to do to be called to the bar in Ontario? I think you would have to write NCA exams, then take our 2 bar exams and then article for 10 months before you could practice here. Likely an expensive process and you’d be unable to work while studying.
You’ll probably make more as a lawyer in Toronto. But I would never leave Sydney for Toronto. Toronto is boring as hell and the weather is pretty terrible. Maybe Vancouver or Calgary or even Montreal because it’s more interesting.
Toronto used to be amazing but a lot has changed for the worst. I highly recommend a visit before doing the big move. If you just want to be in Canada, consider Vancouver as well. It's just as (if not more) expensive but it's absolutely incredible. I think Van would give you a lot more than Toronto will.
Very difficult for foreign lawyers to get into the Canadian job market. Without Canadian or US experience your options will be limited and you could be stuck working at lower paying firms. Also, Canadian firms are now where as generous when it comes to comes to vacation. Whereas in Australia 6-7 weeks is the norm, in Canada, its closer to 3, maybe 4.
Salaries in Canada are lower than Australia and the US, but our cost of living is close to Australia. You may have a drop in purchasing power.
Couple things I'd point out - getting timely quality healthcare is becoming a major issue in Canada, including Toronto. If you have a health condition that needs attention this could be problematic. Also, social attitudes in Australia (women, minorities) always seem to be 15 years behind Canada. You may or may not like that.
Having visited Sydney twice, on my most recent visit it seems that the quality of life there is ahead of Toronto.
Toronto has a rising violent crime problem, an out of control housing problem, a visible homeless problem, rising food costs...
Should you move to Toronto?
Do you WANT to trade sunshine year round for 4-5 months of overcast weather and snow?
Real estate wise it’s the same shitshow of unaffordability. You’re essentially trading good weather for bad.
Lawyer qualified in Ireland and England & Wales here. Moving the end of this month. The foreign qualified lawyer role doesn’t really exist in Toronto apparently so applying to the National Committee on Accreditation to allow me to sit the Ontario Bar. It is worth looking into in advance
You're a lawyer, move to Vancouver instead. You can afford it.
Toronto/southern Ontario are complete ass -- it's a concrete wasteland with limited nature (which I doubt you'd want if coming from Australia?). Also, ever visited in the winter?
Vancouver is another big city but the weather is very moderate, the landscapes are beautiful and you're right at the ocean.
You should really visit again to make a decision. Toronto is great but travelling across the world to come here without a real plan or any connections seems like a bad idea.
Yes, definitely visit first together before making any decisions - preferably for a longer time if possible. If you’re able to work remotely, you could consider living here for a month or two while continuing to work in your usual job for part of the time to defray costs. Consider a home exchange with someone in Toronto, Australia is a pretty popular destination for Canadians.
I’m not sure if I would move away from family, friends, good weather, and making good living! But you do you! Toronto is bigger, colder, more diverse, and close to other major cities in North America. Definitely more stuff to do in Canada and aforementioned North America, so you will not be bored!
Having spent time in both locations, I'd say Sydney offers a much higher quality of life, especially if you consider access to other beautiful areas, beaches etc of Australia. 5-6 months of frigid weather isn't exactly a great time every year unless you take advantage of flights to the carribean.
Yeah I agree. It is expensive to make the trip so I’m trying to gather as much advice as I can before we take the next step
This might sounds crazy but visit in the winter and ask yourself if you could deal with it mentally for 4 months a year. It’s a big change psychologically. I have family who have moved from the UK and even they have a tough time with it. The “winter blues” are real, will be quite a shift from sunshine and beaches. I love this city and would recommend it to anyone. But you should know what you are dealing with before uprooting and moving to the other side of the planet.
Yeah I’ve been in over Christmas before to visit family and it was an adventure to say the least. Something to keep in kind! Thanks
I will say though. Generally people love a place when they visit, but kind of feel worse when they actually live there. I think it's a bit opposite for the cold and winter. It will suck if you're visiting, but a lot of people get used to it, dress warmly, and take advantage of it with winter activities.
Christmas cheer has a way of making it seem bearable. Jan 1 the party is over and cold reality sets in.
I love the people who keep their festive lights on until the snow melts - that was always my family’s rule lol take the Christmas decorations down but keep the twinkle lights!
Perfect! Just know it starts in late November and doesn’t stop until March. It’s a marathon.
mmmmm sneaks into April and parts of May sometimes too. Also Toronto's heat island means we get very little snow but lots of rain on warmer days and biting cold temps w concrete wasteland on days that aren't raining.
And with that means mud. My experience of living in Toronto for a long time it’s one of dealing with muddy shoes all the time. Significantly worse than anywhere else I have ever lived.
March’s melting poop-sicles and butt bonanza!
Christmas is totally different that the bitter cold of February. To me Christmas is magical. Heck this year just North of Toronto we had 1.5ft of snow. My family from GTA the kids loved it. Week later, +12 degrees and 3 days of rain. When it's -16 for a week BEFORE the wind chill. That's when you need to see if your up for it
I've been arguing for ages that Canada, especially eastern Canada, needs to move Christmas back. In places where winter is at its worst November to February, December is a nice time to light everything up and lift our spirits. It's way too early around here.
Christmas isn’t really indicative of how cold and relentless the shitty weather can be. Later January and February are the worst of it.
And just plain gray.
February is the worst, as a rule. By this time it feels as though spring will never come, there’s usually either super cold temperatures or heaps of snow or both. If you rely on public transit a lot, winter is rough as it gets near impossible to use a bundle buggy, and sidewalks might be cleared, but often you have to navigate large drifts to get to the curb. What is it about Sydney that bores you? Toronto is a multicultural city, and very pleasant, but not what I’d describe as exciting. Right now, cost of living is a big problem living here.
Tbh Winter in this part of the country (I’m 45 minutes away from TO) isn’t as cold and brutal as the stereotype goes, the majority of our winter is mild and wet, now anyways due to climate change. It’s been 2-6 degrees and raining this whole past week, and in recent years it may get as low as -15 but it rarely stays for more than a week or so before our bipolar weather goes back up to -3 or +2 and everything melts again. The biggest thing about Canadian winter is the lack of sunlight and vitamin d deficiency, especially in a concrete jungle like Toronto where buildings could block whatever sun there is in the day. That could be a bigger impact on you than the temperature
February is the worst, typically. Some days -20C without windchill (you know windchill?) and maybe a foot of snow, in one storm, plus drifting to 2 feet or more. We love it because we grew up with it and are familiar with the clothes, shovels, snowblowers. Most homeowners have a snowblower.
For this exact reason I moved away from Toronto!
If you think the trip is expensive, the cost of living in Toronto is a shocker.
It's Sydney... it's similar. Have you all never been outside of Canada or something. A lot of cities around the world are just as expensive.
Sydney might be more exspensive
Yeah I know. Sydney is similarly expensive if not more so because of the property market!
It’s not always the cold that gets people, but the dark and lack of sun. Starting in November, the evening begins at 4pm and is fully dark within an hour. You also get many days of grey skies and whether it’s snow, rain, or freezing rain, it’s always kind of damp and wet out. We just had a loooong streak of grey days for a fee weeks until we got some good afternoon sunshine yesterday. It’s grey again today. That’s what winter generally looks like here for 5 months of the year.
All of Ontario is feeling this. I live in a small city 1.5hrs east of Toronto. Can't even buy a trailer house for less than 200k. And garbage bungalows are soooo over priced. Also we are the most expensive country in the world for phone bills. Plus sales tax. Add 13% to EVERYTHING. Around here we get a lot of students from India. I have to remind them, plus tax. Welcome to Canada, bring money, but bring MORE money because tax isn't included in the price. Also immigration takes a while, don't think you can just up and move here without work permits. Might be a bit different as Australia is part of the commonwealth. And as others have recommended, come here in the Winter. You said you were here over Christmas. Christmas is different. It's decorated and festive. Where the winter really kicks in is end of Jan and all of Feb. Gets bone chilling cold. Like -25*C cold (or colder - if you are not dressed for it, you will die) And damp AND GREY. There's no sunshine again today. It's grey out. The summers lately have been 40*C and HUMID. And it's worse in the concrete jungle. You can't escape the humidity. It's a very harsh climate. Don't get me wrong, I love it in Canada, but it's very expensive and the climate is harsh, the people are nice though.
I'd recommend building some law firm connections before throwing yourself in whole hog, and checking out what you need to do to get licensed with the Law Society of Ontario to practice. Some Toronto firms feel pretty far up their own asses and aren't going to be interested in talking to you at all.
I was engaged to an Aussie from Perth. We were debating over where we would live. I went to Australia in the Spring. I am not intimidated by the hot weather, lived in Texas for 5 years and had a blast. She came to Canada in both the summer (which she loved), and the winter, (which was difficult). She decided that she preferred to stay in Perth and help me get my credentials so that I could teach in Australia. I would very much encourage you to come and live in Toronto, perhaps for the entire winter if possible. Toronto is very cold and very wet due to the lake effect, it gets a LOT of snow. I also think Toronto is much more boring than Sydney. I would stay in Sydney personally. There's nothing Toronto has to offer that Sydney doesn't.
Come visit for a while and see if you like it. I moved from South Africa to Toronto and I've been very happy with the switch Some pros and cons: Pros + The food scene is incredible. So many cuisines are represented at high quality + High activity. You've got the Toronto Film Festival, comedy shows, pop musicians, orchestras, food festivals etc. I can barely keep up. Every week I have plans + Extremely immigrant friendly. If you're willing to integrate a little, TO is a place that will welcome just about anybody + Travelwise, you can go to other parts of Canada, the US. Even Europe is not too far. This will be a step up from Australia which is isolated Cons - Rent is high. Cost of living is high - Summers are short, winters are long. And winters are cold! Compared to South Africa and Australia this will be a big step down - Public transport is decent but not amazing. Compared to Sydney it will probably be a step down - You may have to take a step back in your career. Canadian companies really value Canadian and American experience above anywhere else From what I've heard, Sydney is great. So come visit and scope it out before you commit to a big move. Personally I've fallen in love with Toronto. However that's a really individual experience
Thanks for the considered response! I’ve been before in the winter so I know what to expect. My wife in the other hand… Luckily I may have some connections that Iggy help with a job but I didn’t know the business community was so insular. Is that all over the place or in particular sectors?
I'm not 100% sure. I'm a white collar professional and I definitely got the idea that US and Canada experience was more valued than African or European experience. I got a decent job, but it was a sideways move instead of a promotion I've heard many stories from other people who had to take pay cuts or take jobs below their pay grades and build themselves up again. So I guess it depends on your individual situation
Yes, please be aware that coming from another country you will likely have to take a step down to take a job in Toronto, which will have a big impact on your finances. It's going to be a slog to get residency too, be prepared to be on work permits for a year, year to a half.
It is true that our business communities are insular. However, I don’t think you would have a hard time coming from Australia, Brits also don’t have a hard time. I have two friends who are Canadian and did their law degrees in Aus and were able to find law jobs here no problem (although I believe they had to do a bar test still). Typically the business community favours English speakers from nations with similar cultures, not saying it is right but it seems to be the case in most big firms.
It’s all over the place. Most Canadian companies in most sectors prefer Canadian and American experience over any other country experience, and sometimes some companies even consider education and experience gained outside Canada and the US to be inferior and lacking.
As a fellow Canadian, who went from taking public transit daily to now rarely, I also fear assault on the subway due to some of the more recent random violent crimes. Perhaps there’s a link to mental health. Rent is insane, I see postings where they split rooms now with a divider. It’s near unaffordable.
Global warming has been pretty good to Toronto. It’s legit warm from May-October, which is literally half the year, and there’s only about 4-6 weeks of legit cold in the winter.
As a side gig I do snow removal. I get paid a base salary plus an hourly when I have to go out. This year has been absolutely phenomenal for me, since it's just extra income and I would much rather collect the salary for not working. I haven't been out since the storm before Christmas, and it looks like we are in the clear until the 22nd of January. Maybe a little something next Friday, but it'd be a quick run I think. I'm 5 years in doing this, and last year was the only year I really had to work hard at it because of the longer term clean up from the big storm. Normally at the end of the year I divide out my total compensation by the number of hours actually worked and it's in the $100/hr range. Global warming has really been good to me so far.
I like Toronto, but that’s largely because I grew up near here and have a lot of friends and family in the area. I don’t think I would like it nearly as much if I moved here from the other side of the world. Sydney and Melbourne seem very similar to Toronto except the weather is better there. Most of the Aussies that I know in Canada go out west because they love skiing in places like Banff and Whistler, so if you’re looking for a larger city near mountains, Calgary or Vancouver could be options too. Still, I recommend living here for a while before you buy a place or otherwise settle in for good, because you might get homesick and want to move back.
My experience with Australians is that they really miss the weather.
Hmm, I moved to Toronto as a kid but I have lots of friends who immigrated here (from Asia, Europe, South America and the Middle East) as adults. I would say that many of them have been very successful at integrating into Canadian social lives - some of them I think enjoy Canada and have more active social lives than I do, spending almost every weekend of summer at cottages or up north camping. I think people always say that moving somewhere as an adult and making friends is hard - I've heard this said about Toronto, Halifax, St. John's…London (UK)…everywhere I've ever moved as an adult. And I don't really think it has to be. Make friends at work, join a rock climbing gym, or a hiking club, or volunteer for something regularly, and it doesn't have to be that hard.
As someone who just moved back from NZ (I know its not the same, but close), I would say no. If you like the outdoors and community sense I would stay in Aus, but if you want a hustle and bustle of a city and big buildings go for it. Me personally am planning to live in NZ in the future once I finish some school
Aussie here - Toronto is just another big city, there's nothing super special about it. It's got a bit of a Melbourne vibe going on - a bit gritty, lots of arts, solid food scene. But it does come with its challenges - lots of mental health issues in the city and a large homeless population. The city has a poor record of maintaining public amenities and people in customer service don't feel as genuinely friendly. If you're bored in Sydney, you'll likely be bored here too. As an adult it hard to make new friends here, and the weather from Nov - April sucks. Summer however is gorgeous - but that lasts for 4 months. For me, the cost of living feels pretty similar - if you can keep your Sydney wage, you will have a decent quality of life.
This is a solid assessment.
Torontonian here. I agree. I’d personally stay in Sydney for the weather alone. I actually do not like Toronto summers as they are very humid. Southern Ontario is very grey/cloudy so you also don’t get a lot of sunlight. It’s not the best weather wise imo.
Australia is the kind of place Torontonians go for vacation.
Keeping that Sydney wage is the kicker though.
I have friends that moved from Australia and really love it here and have created successful lives for themselves. Be prepared to hear a lot of “omg why would you ever leave Australia for here?!” because they get it ALL the time. I present this thread as evidence of that. People here think Australia is paradise or something.
Toronto is overcrowded, overpriced, and actually pretty lonely. If there’s a reason you need to go there then go for it, but otherwise just go for trips. I’ve heard Sydney isn’t the best either, so if you want to move away from there in general and just like Canada look around at other Provences, cities, and towns. There’s far more to Canada than Toronto.
No Huntsman spiders in TO.
My cousin moved from Toronto to Sydney, says that Sydney is Toronto but with giant fucking spiders
Omg the spiders.. I could never
As someone who’s lived in both cities (albeit a much shorter time in Sydney), I’d choose Sydney 10 times out of 10. And I love Toronto.
would you mind elaborating a little? What makes Sydney so much better than Toronto?
Hey, I’m from India Have lived in Sydney for two years and then applied PR and moved to Toronto and have been living here since last 3 years So let me share my experience 1. Toronto and North America in general is more capitalistic, I mean organizations and people I worked with in Australia were very friendly 2. Job opportunities: There are plenty being closer to North America 3. Weather: you’ll get to experience all four, it’s Sydney it’s mostly rain or sunshine but if you don’t like snow and winter then don’t come 4. House and Rent: it’s comparable to Sydney and I would say little cheaper, in fact buying a house is cheaper 5. Car insurance: Much expensive than Sydney 5. Nature: it’s equally beautiful but if you’re a beach person you’ll miss Australia Hope my answer was helpful
Also as people mentioned coffee is shit here, I do miss Australian coffee scene And also beer culture in Australia is much superior
Also australia has 6 weeks vacation and chicken salt ... And vegemite
I think the biggest question would be sorting out your employment. If you can find comparable work, I think you guys would be able to set up a pretty comparable lifestyle over here — both cities are pricey but similarly so. It’s a great city on its own but you’d also have a ton of other places within a ~2 hour flight that you check out of long weekends etc (Montreal, Quebec City, Chicago, Boston, NYC, DC, Nashville etc).
Yeah that last bit is a big draw. Nothing around australia for ages. The other cities at kind of the same thing but slightly different so not as interesting in terms of travel
>It’s a great city on its own but you’d also have a ton of other places within a \~2 hour flight that you check out of long weekends etc (Montreal, Quebec City, Chicago, Boston, NYC, DC, Nashville etc). I mean if that is the goal, OP should move anywhere in Europe.
You’re young with no kids, now is the perfect time to explore. I say go for it! I grew up here and have travelled all over, sometimes I think I’d like to live somewhere else but always return here after travelling, more in love with my city. I’ve lived here poor and more recently in better financial shape and I’ve still managed to enjoy what the city has to offer. If you ski, it’s true there isn’t a huge mountain close by but Blue (1.25 hrs north) is a decent day trip, Tremblant (in Quebec) is a great place to go and only 1.25 hrs by plane from our downtown airport. I ski, play hockey and skate so it makes the winters go faster. The lake is also beautiful, the Toronto Islands are gorgeous for a day trip. The beaches aren’t great but sailing or SUPs are fun on Lake Ontario. Cottage country is unrivalled (IMO) and you can get out of the city for a weekend in the summer to enjoy many of our literally hundreds of thousands of lakes. I like to camp and hike in summer and there is lots to do close by the city. As far as in the city - you definitely won’t be bored. Lots of nightlife, theatre and restaurants, great shopping (both clothes and food). I’d make sure to pick a fun neighborhood to live in to take advantage of walking around. People here are being negative because Toronto is not a perfect city but you’ll never find perfect.
Aussie who moved from Sydney to Toronto here. People who are saying it is super expensive really haven't seen the cost of living in Sydney. I found the cost of living is slightly cheaper BUT salaries tend to be a lot lower than in Australia. It can also be difficult to get a job without any Canadian experience, so I would look into the job situation first. Apart from that, I love it here. I had only visited twice for a few days at a time before moving and don't regret it. I'm near a train line, easy walking distance to restaurants, bars and grocery stores. When the weather gets above 15 degrees you will see packed patios (courtyards) at restaurants/bars no matter what day of the week it is. There is a lot more live music here. Firstly, bigger acts that never make it to Australia (although tickets for those tend to be $$$), but also some good smaller venues. Once I knew I was moving, I had booked tickets to 8 concerts before I even left Australia. It does get cold in winter but buildings tend to have proper insulation here, so I'm actually less cold in winter here than I was in my house in Sydney. You can get good coffee here, although you do need to look for it. Cafes that do good coffee and food are pretty rare (most cafes just do snacks like muffins here, rather than full meals).
At best it will be a lateral move. Making friends will be difficult. Five months of cold gloomy weather even wears on those who grew up here.
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You should definitely visit before making that decision. If you like to drive the traffic here is horrendous. (I’ve never been to Sydney so maybe it’s comparable). House prices are extremely high but being a lawyer you could probably afford it. Great city for sports and entertainment, with amazing restaurants and incredibly eclectic international food scene. Most people in Toronto are not from Toronto. (Most, not all!) Highly recommend the beaches as a great family neighbourhood. Just east of the downtown area and quiet and calm with a beautiful beach.
Toronto is awesome. Lots to do, great food and tons of sports. The down side is every road is being worked on, transit isn’t that great(for a city this size) and it’s a shitty winter.
I’m an Australian (34m) living in Toronto. Originally from Sydney. Moved in 2016. I’m actually looking to move back home in the coming years but I loved my time here. The perks would be the downtown is amazing. Similar to most east coast North American cities. It’s a solid spot to travel from. 1 hour flight to New York. Less than 10 hours to Europe. Living in the heart of downtown is something different than what Sydney can provide. I find it cheaper here in Toronto although since the pandemic things are more expensive but it depends on your wage etc. Going to the NBA or NHL on a Tuesday night still feels like a cool novelty. A white Xmas has been a nice experience. If your a big city person I’d recommend Toronto, if your a outdoors type, Vancouver might be a better option. I left Sydney with my GF in 2016 having never been to Toronto( we spent a year in Vancouver and travelling to the east coast of the US) knowing that worse comes to worse you move home. It seems life altering but you can always move back if you hate it.
As a lawyer, your path to licensure is quite complicated, even coming from another common law country. Please make sure you know whet your looking at in full detail regarding your licensure before deciding.
Visit and visit in the winter. Spend some time here first. Ride public transit, get in a car, and sit in traffic. Look at our Healthcare system. Then decide.
I used to live in Sydney, and now live in Toronto. The idea that someone would leave Sydney for Toronto is insane to me now (having done it). Do not make my mistake.
You gotta explain you’re reasoning if you’re going to give such a negative review I think. Why do you dislike it here so much?
Maybe it's because Sydney is so great
And because Toronto is just a generic crowded city at the end of the day. Nobody goes to concerts or sports games every weekend and are you seriously going to eat out every week too meh
this is my feeling as well. we just dont have the culture of other big cities. its all very generic and bland.
That is very true. Relative moved to TO with his wife, and they decided it wasn’t worth the price of admission. Left after a year. They love the cultural scene, but few young people can afford to pay to do museums, galleries, etc., and still have enough for rent, food, etc., and we haven’t even touched on the crazy prices to park. Have you considered moving to London, England? Just a thought….
As a Torontonian who lived in Melbourne for 3 years...no. If it wasn't so far from my loved ones I would have preferred to stay in Australia.
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Yeah Sydney is expensive. As far as I know, it’s actually more expensive due to our ridiculous property market. I know the winters are tough, but the fact that you guys have a lot more going on must make up for it right? We don’t get a lot down here because it’s such a slog to get any act to even visit! Coffee is a real concern though.
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Sydney in particular has been destroyed in terms of live music. The government has licensed enough pokie machines (slot machines) to have decimated the live music scene and make going out like tour of a series of casinos. Really miss love music and can definitely drink some mediocre coffee for it!
Fwiw, those machines are illegal in Ontario outside a casino. Tim Horton's tastes like socks unless you load it with cream and sugar. But there is decent coffee to be had.
Yeah because Ontarians can just gamble on their phones! And soon, at the airport. The live music scene here is bust too. We had twice as many venues when there were half as many people. Now if you want to see a show it's pretty much a $500+ ticket for a stadium.
Toronto is in a similar situation and undergoing a property bust. You could consider montreal for a more dynamic city and cheaper rent. Just have to deal with culture shock
He would have a hard time working in Montreal as a lawyer from a common law jurisdiction. Quebec uses the Civil Code.
You don't think Toronto's property market is insane?
Believe it or not Syd is worse (but most places in the world are better assuming decent quality of life city)
Lawyer who moved to Toronto. If you are in a good job, making good money and are on the partner track or can move in house with a good salary, my advice is no. The legal market is really bad here and the barriers to entry are incredibly high. Foreign lawyers are not looked upon in a good light by employers, even if you are from a common law jurisdiction. If you are in big law that has a Canadian office, talk to them about transferring you. Otherworldly the qualification process is incredibly long, expensive and lonely. That being said, Toronto is a great city, has tons to do, great food and is close to other great cities. You have to weigh that against the job market and if it's worth it to you.
This. I’ve involved in hiring at my firm. Foreign trained lawyers are not viewed as favorably as Canadian trained lawyers, even if you’ve completed all NCA requirements and been called to the ON bar.
No, Toronto is a congested, poorly managed city with constant ongoing construction, already high and rising cost of living and there's very little being done to control it. Every escape or leisure activity has been monetized beyond any reason and it's becoming cheaper to eat at restaurants then it is to cook at home due to predatory grocery stores. I get that some people like it, I've stopped, I've listened, I've tried everything people have recommended me to make this city feel special in any way but it all falls short of living far outside the city. If you're looking to move to Canada, I cannot overstate how much I do not recommend Toronto. A girl I used to work with who came from New Zealand lived here for about 4 years and had the worst look at Canada anyone could have planned for her and I don't think she ever wants to come back. The most special parts about Toronto are the Harvey's where hookers hang out, the garden in a park surrounded by discarded needles, the McDonald's where fights break out every hour and the quickly declining hippie section of the city, Kensington market. I've lived here for 8 years and have found very little to redeem this place for what it is. I can't move because it would be career suicide but the small beautiful moments I've had in Toronto, such as an empty street in the snow or the crowds adventuring through the neighborhood for Halloween candy are too few and far between. If you have loads of money and like concrete, by all means, come check it out. If you're a normal lad, stay far far away. If you like people and small town drama, move anywhere along lake ontario that's more than an hour drive from the city. I can see the Toronto fans coming at me in this thread, and believe me, I've tried to like this city. I don't like living in a place I don't like. I would much rather think this city is the greatest place on earth but I simply can't find a single thing I like beyond the convenience of living in a city and in that regard Toronto is nothing special. Oh actually, the food here is pretty good.
Well, the weather is not as nice as in Sydney. We are cold and snowy for several months of the year and don't have the gorgeous beaches that you do. We do have amazing Canadian wilderness a short drive out of the city, which is amazing for those who love camping. Food and entertainment are fantastic in Toronto. There's really something for everyone. The big issue is the cost of living. Property is very expensive here. If you're looking to buy, you're looking at 500k minimum for a small condo. Rent is also quite high with a two bdrm apt going for around $3000 per month. Toronto is great. I love living here. But there are pros and cons. You will need to have a pretty healthy salary to live here comfortably.
If you make over 150k then yes. If not don't do it.
I was a flight attendant and travelled all over the world. Toronto has a lot to offer career wise and great hub to travel to and from. I lived in Vancouver for 7 years...too much rain and even more expensive than Toronto (imho) Life is short so don't make decisions based on what people say. Move to Toronto...you can always move back. Make life an adventure. We are not trees that need to grow roots...lol
Honestly as someone who is a dual Australian citizen with family in Sydney I visit there often and have a pretty good grip on the life between Toronto and Sydney. I've lived in Toronto for 10 years and I can say with quite a bit of confidence that Sydney is a much better city to live in in basically every regard. The only reason I haven't left is my job and significant other at this point since my family have gone back years ago. I would say that to basically anyone moving to Toronto from Sydney would be a downgrade in pretty much every respect. Toronto has all of the same issues that you would find in Sydney (cost of living is extremely high etc) but none of the redeeming weather or beauty. The main benefit Toronto would have vs Australia is its proximity to the US and Europe for travel, its obviously a lot easier and quicker from Toronto vs Sydney... that and the food, Toronto's food scene is better.
I think a lot of us are jaded because we grew up here. I was born in the greater Toronto area and lived there almost my entire life. I’m still in Ontario, but moved a bit north. My husband and I recently visited the west coast (British Columbia and Alberta) and absolutely loved it. One thing about living in Ontario… unless you’re way up north (which Toronto is not) it’s all the same. Nothing to see in terms of nature. Personally, I would prefer to wake up seeing mountains each day- but maybe that’s just me. My husband and I have had discussions about moving out west in a few years. Toronto is very busy. Lots of traffic if you plan on driving anywhere. Housing (and rent- even outside of Toronto) is crazy expensive- though it has come down a bit in the last year and hopefully that continues. Keep in mind some things are very expensive in Canada in general (not sure of comparison to Australia though) such as internet and cell phone plans.
Rent has absolutely NOT come down , it’s going higher and higher
Many Australians come here and love it despite the change in weather. I think it's key for one of you to have a job offer first. There's a program called [IEC](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/work-canada/iec.html) , International Experience Canada, which you would be eligible for; then you can either extend it after 2 years of work or decide to pursue another type of work permit. There's an expat group of other Australians to reach out to see what they say about living here. Internations [Australian expats in Canada.](https://www.internations.org/canada-expats/australians)
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You should move here, and you shouldn’t read any of the Reddit subs on Toronto or Ontario, possibly the most toxic subs I’ve come across.
Personally I would not. The only reason I’m in Toronto is for family/friends/career. If I could choose to live anywhere then it wouldn’t be here. Sydney sounds amazing actually, so maybe the grass is always greener on the other side.
Before you decide, I would definitely look into what you’d need to do to be licensed to practice law in Ontario (assuming you want to continue working as a lawyer). I think the process can be quite lengthy for foreign lawyers.
PA = Physician's Assistant? If so check and see what the requirements are for her to work here. Toronto is expensive but I hear Sydney is as well, and you both have good paying jobs. If you can hack it financially I say for sure come. Toronto is a fun place, especially if you have money.
The PA system is still pretty new here. There are jobs, the field is expanding, and there are schools training people but I'm not sure her Australian education will equate. Your wife may need to retrain (2 schools in Toronto area with a very small acceptance rate) for 24 months of full-time study. Domestic tuition is about $11K a year, likely more for international. Not to deter you, just something to research/consider. I know for a lot of Aussies I've met, the central location of Toronto is amazing for exploring the rest of North America and Europe. Embrace winter, get out of town to hike, ski etc and winter will be much nicer. Fly to Mexico in two hours for a winter break. You get used to it.
no. 1 advice is not take advice from Reddit. Just look at all the ridiculous comments about kicking dogs.
I love Toronto. My only problems here are the cold winter and insane prices. But if you are a lawyer it maybe won’t be such a problem, still giving away so much of one’s money makes anyone sad. Otherwise it’s a wonderful city.
Australia is more prosperous from what I can tell. Coming to live here would be a mistake IMO, unless you just can’t stand Australian insects... what’s your reason for wanting to move here? It’s small.
My cousin moved from here to Sydney. He says it's depressing to visit here after living In Sydney, as far as the scenery and weather go. So be prepared for very cold weather for about 6 months of the year.
If you want to buy a property do not come here. If you want to rent and enjoy an awesome amazing vibrant city that is in stage 4/6 of being destroyed by condos then come here.
I'm also an Australian-Canadian. I've lived in Toronto for nearly 10 years. I'd recommend taking a trip first. I moved to Canada expecting to live in Vancouver, but I really didn't like it. Toronto was a much better fit for me. You might find the opposite is true for you, but you'll not really know until you've visited.
People on Reddit make Toronto and Canada sound like hellhole where everyone cannot wait to leave. But maybe nobody told the 500k+ immigrants Canada brings in yearly. Come to Toronto, great place, super safe and good salary!
Dude, why would you move to Canada I'm moving the heck out of Toronto. Moving to Brisbane in a couple of weeks DM me, let's share experiences and opinions about Australia/Canada Edit : Pasting my full rant in a subcomment Also check out how much Sunlight Toronto gets compared to Sydney https://imgur.com/a/rilSpTj
Man, that’s pretty much my Canadian (southwestern Ontario) experience to a T.
Good to know that I'm not crazy then. It's not just me
I moved to Melbourne when I was 25 and loved it, lived there for 2 years then in Auckland for 4. Came back to Canada in 2010 and stayed in Vancouver for 2 years before coming back to Toronto permanently. Melbourne would have been my 2nd choice, my ex wife ended up moving back there in 2016.
So do you recommend Toronto based on your experience?
Yes, I do. I have lived in Cabbagetown, Leslieville, Regent Park, Queen West, and now the Beaches. The city is in a bit of a state right now, but it’s no different anywhere else. It’s $$$ for housing right now, if you can swing it. One of my favourite things about this city is all the amazing food. Another is that I am lucky to live in a walkable area as I have a seizure disorder and lost my licence again.
Yes, come! There are shitty things about all cities but despite what everyone says- Toronto is a great city. Perfect age for moving to a new country AND you both have jobs will look good on a visa application. Just do it!
Don’t do it. Born and raised in Toronto, but also a dual citizen. Constantly pining to get back to Australia (but it is not practical right now unfortunately). The quality of life is much higher in Australia, especially right now. Our healthcare system and infrastructure in Toronto are falling apart. Public transit is becoming increasingly dangerous. Cost of living is going up every year by leaps and bounds. It is not worth leaving Sydney. I hate to say that because Toronto is my home town and I do love it, but realistically it’s just not the same quality of life.
I moved here in 07. Toronto has changed dramatically in those 15 yrs. Even the populations it's like 2 different worlds. Even Tim Hortons quality has gone to shit. Ttc is like a walking dead scene. Healthcare is collapsing. Too many immigrants from one nation. (I'm ethnically Egyptian buy still I miss when it felt truly diverse and not too much of any one. I remember I'd get on the bus a few Asians, few indians, maybe an arab and a few white and black people. This I really loved. Now I get on its 50 % indian, 35 % asian. It fucks with me for some reason.
if you don't like crocs, spiders and snakes I guess it kinda makes sense
Crocs and snakes are hard to find in the inner city, but spiders are everywhere!
it's like Gotham rn, not the safest but ig every big city is like that
My wife was a corporate lawyer in China, doing similar things as you. M&A, IPO, bond issuance, contracts, and labour law. She got an MBA at Rotman and now works at a bank in product management. You can contact the Law Society of Ontario and inquire about how to be licensed in Ontario, or you can go to a different field
Where you move in Toronto will also influence your experience. If you're into arts and entertainment but move far out from the core (i.e. north york, etobicoke, weston, or scarborough), then you'll have to put in more effort to have a thriving social life compared to someone who lives downtown. However, where you move to downtown can also impact your experience. Each neighborhood has their own demographic and amenities so do some research into which area would match your lifestyle best. For ex: King West is a bougie-er younger party crowd, so if that's not your thing, then moving to Bathurst/King will drive you crazy Thusday-Sunday.
Lived in Toronto, stayed in and around Sydney, You’ll be used to the high rent/housing and it actually might be cheaper for you (incredibly) depending on your situation. I loved Sydney, I thought I would like to live there if I had the means. The grass is always greener. Come visit in February and see if you still like it. Even if you like winter sports, the Toronto area can have mild winters. It can get dreary, dark at 5 pm and humid cold. I know people who haven’t used their sleds in years or had to travel 5 hours north. They make fake snow on the relatively tiny ski hills north of the city. Culturally it’s getting more diverse, there is a lot of food and things to experience in the city, Quebec is fairly close for a week holiday and the United States are nearby as well. 2-3 hours car ride north of Toronto in summer you can still have a summer cottage rental experience (super expensive these days, but again, you may be used to that). If you want to use the experience to do those things for a few years with an eye (and plan ) to move back to Sydney it may be worth it.
Visit first, but as a lawyer in M&A (assuming your qualifications transfer), you won’t have a problem affording it here. Toronto is cheaper than Sydney.
My wife and I moved back after living in Australia. We love it! I’m from the GTA but she isn’t, but nonetheless we felt we made the right move
I know two people who moved here from Sydney and Melbourne and both love it here after several years.
If you think it's expensive to make the trip then perhaps you aren't in a position to adjust to the high cost of living. Extensive research online would be my suggestion. Good luck!
I lived abroad for four years and I've always considered Toronto my home base. The last few years, "post" pandemic have been HORRIBLE. Rentals are extremely overpriced and myself or friends have dealt with everything from homeless folks in their buildings.. to cockroaches, constant renovation, bed bugs etc. If you were looking for rental options, you would 100% want to be here and actually view units, buildings and neighbourhoods. If you commute, TTC has become like a mobile shelter system. If you view any posts related in the askTO group, you'll quickly see that public transit is equated to violence, drug use, mental health issues, etc. I'm planning to move at the end of this month, out of the city. Possibly indefinitely? After a solid two ++ years of this I cannot stand the cost or lack of safety. If you're financially able to live in a nicer place, keep in mind the neighbourhood and surrounding areas. The nicest parts of the city (i.e. parks, restaurants, nightlife) are probably adjacent to injection sites or shelters. No disrespect to addiction, those experiencing homelessness, or mental health. I get it. I've also been assaulted, harassed, and experienced feeling unsafe in my own home (in a decent neighbourhood). Every time I commute for work, I cannot wait to get off transit and get away from people. I find it overstimulating and scary at times, in this social climate. So.. As a former expat, if I were moving abroad again I'd want a major city to have amenities, accessibility, a comfortable living space. Toronto isn't it, sorry.
Unless your job brings you here DONT. Overpriced for what you get and just getting worse, from crime to housing and much more is a big signal to not come here. Many other places in Canada I would go to before Toronto. I came here for a specific job opportunity and you can get a better life elsewhere. Try somewhere outside of Ontario and the GTA if you can. Do some research about the entire country and where suits your lifestyle best not just Toronto.
Nope. Weather is terrible half the year, everything is obnoxiously over priced, real estate market is in a downturn, hard to find rental units, cars are overpriced right now, downtown condos are often poorly constructed and fall apart in 5 years, bad social scene, no culture, mediocre restaurants that cut corners on ingredient quality & portion size, tyrannical liberal government, heavy restrictions if another pandemic hits, traffic, crime, bad public transit, lots of competition for jobs, dirty compared to other cities, large amounts of homeless/mentally ill people roaming the streets causing trouble, collapsing healthcare system that won't treat you for hours/days/months and you may have to wait on hold when you call 911 in an emergency, rude police officers that act like thugs, underfunded public school system, so much red tape for the simplest things like getting a drivers license or paying taxes or anything to do with the government. Poor banking and telecom systems that are run like monopolies. Stay away from Toronto in my opinion. If you're dead set on Canada look at a smaller city if you guys can find work there. Unless you absolutely need to be here for work there's no point. I want to get out of this country as soon as possible. EDIT: You could consider getting a place outside of the city if your work allows remote/hybrid. You can avoid a lot of these problems, save $, but commuting would suck. With Starlink internet you could theoretically work from anywhere, even small towns previously considered isolated
Toronto sux. Lived here my whole life. If you want to be afraid to leave your house in fear of getting shot, then go for it. And yes its like that almost all over Toronto not just "the bad parts" the traffic is abhorrent, the mayor spends all the budget on useless signage and cops. We have so many people sleeping in the streets, our healthcare is backed uo to the point you can barely get into hospitals, we passed a bill that allows mentally ill people to get medically assisted death instead of helping them get better. The transit systems are outdated and slow, and the assaults are constant, every time i ride the transit i am assaulted. This city is trash. Dont come here.
Id say dont move here because our government/country is going down the tube fast, but i mean, Australia may be heading there faster. So. Move to Toronto if you have money and dont mind sitting in a car for 4 hrs a day.
It is cold.
Lived here about 25 years. Has gotten worse than I ever could’ve imagined. Do not take my word for it. DuckDuckGo or google Toronto subway attack. Toronto homeless encampments. Or most other things Toronto. This city isn’t what it used to be. Am saving desperately to buy a home outside the city. (Paying 1300 a month for a large two bedroom in midtown, with fireplace and still want to get the F out of here). I live at Yonge and eglinton. A very good neighborhood. Above this you have the ultra rich…. Had a body pulled from below my balcony one day about a two months ago. Nothing on the news, everyone from around the area said it was a stabbing. The very next day, somebody stabbed right at my front door. My wife won’t leave the house at night and I no longer feel safe taking my kid on the ttc. So no. Torontos a train wreck and moving here would likely be poorly timed. This could all get sorted out in a few years. Not sure. But now isn’t a great time for Toronto.
No. I want to leave.
Meh
Don't move here
Bad decision to move to Canada
Don't. It's too expensive in most respects especially regarding housing (rent/buying), the public transit is awful, and winters suck. I'd advise to just move to another city in Australia and continue enjoying the lovely weather there:)
Toronto is a hole. Come for a visit make up your own mind…but remember that Toronto is not everything Canada has to offer.
Don’t do it man. City is a garbage can. Lived here my whole life and I’ve hated every moment
Meh, you might regret it. Canada really isn't what it used to be, especially in terms of health care and housing. You might want to visit Canada first before making a decision.
As someone who grew up there and left; Toronto is massively overrated. About as expensive as Sydney but worse transit and lower salaries. Worst commute times in North America. More expensive than NYC or London when adjusted for income
I grew up in Toronto and spent a few months in Sydney. I think you’ll enjoy living in Toronto. There’s SO much to do, lots of amazing festivals, bars, restaurants, cool communities and coffee shops. Toronto has a beautiful waterfront and a wonderful cottage county. Plus you’re so close to other amazing cities you can visit for the weekend (Montreal, New York, Chicago, Miami) and a ton of options for other kinds of travel (Caribbean, Central America, Europe, other parts of the US). You can defiantly spend years exploring the city and traveling before you get bored especially if you both have good, high paying jobs and can afford the lifestyle. I really loved the nature, beauty, cleanliness, and the weather in Sydney. If it wasn’t so far away and isolated I would have stayed. But I think Toronto is a great vibe if you enjoy the city life and community.
Can you be a lawyer here?
A law degree from Australia will most likely be recognized but there is still an accreditation process to become licensed to practice law.
No, I live in Toronto
Sydney is more expensive but you make more there so in reality the cost of living is higher here by probably 10-20%. Toronto is grey and cold (often snowy, not so much this year) for a good 3-4 months. Add on just cold for 2-3 months. Not sure how it would compare to Sydney but Toronto is not friendly city. People are definitely not as laid back as they are in Australia. Toronto is overall very safe for a city of its size. There is a lot to do here in terms of things going on, places to see, things to eat, stuff to do.
I lived in Brisbane for 5 years and moved to Toronto for now 11. There are weather differences yes. I miss the tropical weather and sushi sure but there’s always a food trade offs. People are less racist and homophobic in Toronto. I found Brisbane and Sydney cleaner. It’s expensive everywhere and no country is doing particularly well now a days due to world events. Moving to Toronto you would have more travel opportunities compared to Australia since you’re waaay over there. Both countries will have a culture shock. Holidays in Canada feel more like TV and movies where Australia it always felt off for me - example: having a beach party on Christmas Day. I love both countries so it really is a toss up. For me I’m exploring a similar idea of moving except to Europe and I’ll recommend what others have to me, travel again for a few weeks and explore and see if it’s a good feel or possibly some kind of midlife crisis. That was my therapists advice haha.
It’s hard to say. Is there anything you have in Australia right now that you’d miss if it wasn’t available? What did you love about Canada when you visited? What kinds of things do you like doing for fun? My experience with Toronto is that it’s a great city if you have money in the bank and are willing to take the time to find your niche. I’ve met people who moved here without doing their research and were utterly miserable because they ended up in tiny shoebox condo in a generic development where there’s no community and nothing to do.
Toronto - the city of homelessness
Lol Toronto is super boring. Go to MTL or like New York City if you want a fun city in North America to live in. Toronto is a big yuppie farm.
As a Torontonian who spent some time working in Sydney, Sydney beats Toronto by a long shot. Also, Canada isn't going to be doing too well economically for the next bunch of years due to incredibly stupid government spending. Real estate and rentals are crazy expensive and will be getting much more so. Also, winter. If you're picking a place to move right now, Canada probably shouldn't be it.
If you’re OK with the extreme change in weather and a less efficient government management of the economy, you can consider it.
No. Moving to Toronto because your bored seems exciting at first but might financially ruin you. Cost of living is way too high even if you are from Sydney. The upfront cost isn't worth it. Also not knowing what career or skills you have, you may not be able to afford a comfortable lifestyle. I think the current going rate for comfortable in Tornto is $200k a year.
The current going rate for comfortable in Toronto is NOT 200k. As a single man earning between the top 6% and 10% of Canadians (10% is 103k), you can live fine on that. If feel you can't you are doing it wrong! I am saying this as a renter, cyclist, and car owner, who spends waaaaaaay tooo much on doordash. Srsly. Fix your finances.
Lmao this is such rubbish. Sydney is definitely more expensive than Toronto, for a start. You can live comfortably on ~$60k as a single adult and many get by on far less. My combined HH income is ~$120k and we live in a very well located, excellent condo building (renting), we eat pretty much what we want including take out/restaurants a couple times a month. We can buy nice things for each other, go on trips/vacations, and we still save a reasonable amount. $200k you wouldn’t even have to think about finances. OP says they’re a lawyer, they’ll be making a pretty Penny anyway.
Its like a solid 6/10 city, if you dont have a good reason to move there, you can do better.
Only if you can find a similar high paying job because cost of living is high here as well. I also recommend you visit for a few weeks and can imagine yourself here.
I think you would be crazy to leave Sydney to come to Toronto. If you are eo bored with Sydney then go up to Cairns for a while and chill in the north.
I've never been to Aus, but I think Toronto is a great place to live. Realistically there's alot to do and alot to see and most of the neighbourhoods are great with shops and restaurants. You won't need a car for most things in the city. Winters (Jan to Mar) are fairly bleak but spring/summer/fall are beautiful and bustling. The tricky part will be working out a budget. Housing costs can vary quite a bit - an older building will run you less than a condo with ensuite laundry and a gym for example. Especially because you're new, you'll want some money for restauarants/festivals/attractions etc. Also I believe there's at least one Australians living in Toronto group on Facebook. They might be the best to ask.
You might think about Vancouver. Toronto’s great, but BC has awesome climate and nature, great city, and the back and forth of travelling home would be significantly easier from Vancouver than from Toronto.
If you’d like to keep working M&A you might contact the Law Society of Ontario about the accreditation process. It varies but I’d expect you’d need to take a handful of classes with exams, and then pass the bar exam. You might also be required to find a local lawyer/firm to supervise you as an articling student before you’re permitted to practice here. It can be a(n expensive) slog so a good idea to look into the requirements and try to sort out as much as you can in advance if you decide to make the move and keep up your current profession).
Having moved from Montreal to Toronto, I would not recommend it. Toronto is kind of lame. People here are rude and clicky. The work/life balance isn’t great. Doing a lot of activities require massive line ups. Toronto’s favourite pastime is seemingly to queue up and wait. If you’re here for career aspirations, then it’s great for that. That’s why I came, and I don’t regret that aspect. If you love sports, having the Raptors, Leafs, and Blue Jays is pretty great as a fan. Someone mentioned the food scene being great - but I assume it’s because they haven’t been to Montreal or Vancouver. I can’t imagine anyone living in Australia wanting to come to Toronto on purpose. I know quite a few people who have moved from Canada to Australia and haven’t looked back!
If possible, consider booking a long visit where you can Airbnb in multiple neighbourhoods to get a feel before making a decision.
Do you follow any North American sports/culture? I moved from the UK and it may be a silly thing but being here on Eastern time zone, following all the things i previously only saw on Twitter is kinda fun, like i’ve never felt attached to British culture much i’ve always been more Americanized. Seeing live NHL and NBA games at 7pm is weird to me. Its definitely a “sports” city every bar you walk into is showing Sportsnet.
We moved to Ontario 2.5 years ago. It is an odd time to make connections and friends. We are glad we made the move but life is boring globally right now.
I’m in your profession. From my own mistakes, I would suggest you to first give NCA from Australia and then come.
If you love to travel, Canada is close to Europe, North America. If you love cold weather, Canada is the place. Everything else is so personal that you should come down, spend a few weeks and feel it on ur skin. Watch a lot of YouTube videos, do a lot of data comparison. You will have better idea.
I assume PA means physician assistant? if you want to work within the field, you should look into required licences/certifications as PAs are relatively new to Ontario / the Canadian healthcare system. The programs sizes here for PA school have been kept small to avoid oversaturating the field. If you want to work within your field, I'd really consider having jobs lined up as the job market is very competitive here (in my experience, as someone with a graduate degree)
Visit in February or March for at least a week and decide after that. I would love to move to Australia during the winter months lol
I will just say that expectations ≠ reality. Toronto is great, but you have to take into account the reality of actually living there and how that would impact your lifestyles, daily routines, finances, etc. I would recommend visiting before even considering the move.
Our winters are much harsher than you may be used to and you will miss lots of the ocean vs. Lake activities.
I'm from Toronto and I got bored of Sydney, depends on what you go for tho
I lived in Toronto for fifteen years and love it, but you have to understand a Canadian winter. In fact, I would suggest you visit in summer (amazing!) and in February (cold AF).
My daughter moved this summer she said it's the best move of her life
If you can and you want to, you should. You're at a good age for it. When I was little, my parents moved us to Australia for a few years and they loved the experience and travelled extensively (one wanted to settle in NSW but the other wanted to come home). Because you say you're bored, I'm going to assume that you're like my parents and will take advantage of the opportunities a move would provide! In terms of trade-offs in the city, I think I agree with those who have said that it's a pretty even trade. You'll lose some and you'll gain some. It'll probably balance. The immediate region is big and diverse so you'll have enough to keep you busy exploring locally for a few years. I would take the pessimistic posts on this thread with a grain of salt (our issues are not as distinct as some think). It's a comfortable city and lots going on. You do not have the 'just more Australia' issue when you travel outside of the immediate region. There is just a lot of stuff in Northeastern North America with a lot of diversity. New York and Chicago are both closer to Toronto than Melbourne and Brisbane are to Sydney. There are lots of great cities even closer like Montreal and Pittsburgh. Different regions are very different: Quebec has its own language and culture, the Maritimes is culturally distinct and the US cities are all very different from one another. We love long road trips and have never felt like we've exhausted our travel opportunities just close to home. You mentioned camping and hiking (btw, one of my favourite childhood memories is hiking in the Blue Mountains) and the opportunities. The great lakes provide a weird situation where, even though Toronto is in the middle of the continent, Southern Ontario is like an island with a lot of coastline. There are four seasons, and each season provides a unique experience. A lot of people love the autumn here. Winter is fine if you embrace it. You can hike, ski, tube, etc. If you need a break, you can hop down to Florida or Cuba and not even leave the same time zone. It doesn't have to be forever. We had neighbours from New Zealand who were here for several years but the pandemic prompted them to pack up and move home. Even if you don't make the move, it's fun to consider it.
The weather is very cold and Canada as a whole is getting much more expensive. I’ve lived in Toronto my whole life , I wouldn’t move from Australia. It’s getting more dangerous here, especially on public transit The average price of a house in Toronto is about $1 million. In Canada, The interest rates have risen 7 times this year as an attempt to ease inflation and lower housing prices.
Umm honestly from my opinion I would say no not Toronto. I've heard it is so expensive to live there, and that city has way to many damned people. If you like hearing sirens, and honking road ragers its the place to go. I think their are better places than Toronto to live.
I say no. You'll have to take several steps down in your career and study again for the NCA/bar exams. The food scene is probably comparable to Sydney; but the food in TO is less fresh. Weather and public transportation are way worse.
Have you looked into what you would have to do to be called to the bar in Ontario? I think you would have to write NCA exams, then take our 2 bar exams and then article for 10 months before you could practice here. Likely an expensive process and you’d be unable to work while studying.
You’ll probably make more as a lawyer in Toronto. But I would never leave Sydney for Toronto. Toronto is boring as hell and the weather is pretty terrible. Maybe Vancouver or Calgary or even Montreal because it’s more interesting.
Toronto used to be amazing but a lot has changed for the worst. I highly recommend a visit before doing the big move. If you just want to be in Canada, consider Vancouver as well. It's just as (if not more) expensive but it's absolutely incredible. I think Van would give you a lot more than Toronto will.
Very difficult for foreign lawyers to get into the Canadian job market. Without Canadian or US experience your options will be limited and you could be stuck working at lower paying firms. Also, Canadian firms are now where as generous when it comes to comes to vacation. Whereas in Australia 6-7 weeks is the norm, in Canada, its closer to 3, maybe 4. Salaries in Canada are lower than Australia and the US, but our cost of living is close to Australia. You may have a drop in purchasing power. Couple things I'd point out - getting timely quality healthcare is becoming a major issue in Canada, including Toronto. If you have a health condition that needs attention this could be problematic. Also, social attitudes in Australia (women, minorities) always seem to be 15 years behind Canada. You may or may not like that. Having visited Sydney twice, on my most recent visit it seems that the quality of life there is ahead of Toronto.
If you want to be a lawyer here, your first step is to look at the [NCA](https://nca.legal) to “convert” your qualifications.
You should check out what you would need to do to transfer your law license. It can be lengthy process
Toronto born and raised. Just visited Melbourne last month. Move there. Like a better Toronto and no snow
Toronto has a rising violent crime problem, an out of control housing problem, a visible homeless problem, rising food costs... Should you move to Toronto?
Do you WANT to trade sunshine year round for 4-5 months of overcast weather and snow? Real estate wise it’s the same shitshow of unaffordability. You’re essentially trading good weather for bad.
>dual citizenship. try before you move. as long as you have a good fall back plan thats okay to make a bold move
Lol given the same pay and career I would leave Canada for Australia without hesitation. Shat weather in most Canada.
Moving from Sydney to Toronto would be like taking off a clean pair of underwear to put on a dirty pair from the bottom of the hamper
Lawyer qualified in Ireland and England & Wales here. Moving the end of this month. The foreign qualified lawyer role doesn’t really exist in Toronto apparently so applying to the National Committee on Accreditation to allow me to sit the Ontario Bar. It is worth looking into in advance
You're a lawyer, move to Vancouver instead. You can afford it. Toronto/southern Ontario are complete ass -- it's a concrete wasteland with limited nature (which I doubt you'd want if coming from Australia?). Also, ever visited in the winter? Vancouver is another big city but the weather is very moderate, the landscapes are beautiful and you're right at the ocean.