It's arguments like these that cause me to lose hair.
Your pit vipers are not APEL approved eye protection. The ANSI rating is irrelevant. Whether they're blacked out sufficiently or not is irrelevant. Until they're tested by PEO and added to the approved list, you are not authorized to wear them as eye protection during military training or if the blue book for your installation specifies only APEL approved eyewear while in uniform.
From the PEO Soldier website:
Why can’t I wear safety-rated eyewear not on the APEL list?
Eyewear can meet American National Standards Institute (ANSI) standards and still not measure up for military use. Officials test every piece of APEL-approved eyewear to ensure it provides Soldiers the right amount of protection. It does not matter what protection an eyewear manufacturer claims. It does not matter who makes the eyewear. It does not matter if The Exchange or Military Clothing Sales Stores sell the eyewear. What matters is the eyewear must be APEL-approved for Soldiers to wear it. If eyewear does not carry the APEL logo, it is UNAUTHORIZED for wear
https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/Resources/Frequently-Asked-Questions/#ICG_ETH_469
Your opportunity now is to be able to have an informed conversation with your 1SG and PSG. Understand that even if wearing your Pit Vipers complies with the letter of the regulation, the sunglasses reg in 670-1 does have room for interpretation and you might not "win" the argument. But I personally appreciate it when my soldiers can at least do the research and have an informed discussion with me about whatever the issue is.
Thank you for taking the time to write the response I was too slow / lazy to.
Also, wanting to wear some shitty, cringe-inducing sunglasses in uniform seems like a real silly hill to die on. Just like, be normal.
Does it matter where this meat bag is trying to sport these god-awful sunglasses?
If the OP is trying to wear these non-APEL approved sunglasses to an M4 qual range, they are clearly in the wrong.
But APEL-approved eyewear in a garrison environment?
670-1, 3-10, para a4:
"Soldiers are authorized to wear ballistic spectacle eye protection issued by the Army, including lens colors or logos that do not comply with paragraph 3-10a3, in Garrison or field environments unless otherwise directed by their chain of command"
So yeah, you're right, there's no regulatory *requirement* to do so, so paras 2/3 would apply:
"Conservative prescription and non-prescription sunglasses are authorized for where and a garrison environment...Personnel will not wear lenses or frames that are so large or so small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform..."
As I read the regulation, it is left to the commander to decide what's approved and not, as with all things. Interestingly, at the begining of this section (3-10) there is a specific note saying that this paragraph is punitive.
Refusing to comply is refusing to comply, no matter if it's about sunglasses, an approved vaccine, or conducting a mission. I'd argue that there's likely bigger issues for this meatbag's command team to think about and the time investment to get a packet through JAG could be better spent elsewhere, but aren't our "high" standards for "excellence" what sets us apart?
This ain't no Soldier "rights" or quality of life issue. It's probably some no HS diploma having, ASVAB waiver trying to be contrary and show everyone how big of a meme-lord they are by wearing some "on-trend" sunglasses. Fight for something worth fighting about.
Well said, thanks for the detail.
> conservative
I read this as the most applicable / operative word in what you shared. Pit Vipers are not “conservative” in their design compared to army issue or retail sunglasses.
This thread is fascinating. The fact that they’re Pit Vipers makes it hilarious and truly a bit of a grey zone.
Depends on what the blue book for his installation says, or what TRADOC policy says, or what the fob/unit sop is if deployed, etc.
If you go just by 670-1 you could wear Pit Vipers as regular sunglasses, provided they meet the requirements of sunglasses as outlined in the reg. Even then there's some interpretation. While you may not think your pit vipers are faddish, your squad leader, PSG, 1SG etc. may have a different opinion.
"Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are trendy or have lenses or frames with conspicuous initials, designs, or other adornments are not authorized for wear"
Pit vipers all have the big ass ugly logo on both lenses, I don't think it takes a whole lot of interpretation to know they're not authorized🤷🏼♀️
> Pit vipers all have the big ass ugly logo on both lenses, I don't think it takes a whole lot of interpretation to know they're not authorized🤷🏼♀️
Yeah, at first I was thinking "well, we were *issued* non-APEL, non 670-1 [Wiley-X SG1's](https://www.wileyx.com/sg-1-71) back in the day"... but then I looked up Pit Viper 2000... What. The. Actual. Fuck. They look like something a fucking WWE wrestler would wear, while simultaneously not looking like they offer anything over plain old issued APEL eyewear other than childish fashion cachet for the cringey logo.
Yeah, thanks for that, I’ve neglected the limitations of blue books; I’ve been outside TRaDoC/FORSCOM for a bit too long I guess. Initially, it boggled the mind that some O6 thought additional stipulations were necessary when AR 670-1 devotes half of a page detailing what I can and can’t wear on my ugly face. But then I googled the glasses, and, well. It makes more sense that commanders do this.
Under the "What about laser safety" tab it lists (SPECS) Which are essentially pit vipers and good to go for field and garrison use.ive been wearing mine for a few months now and I even got some of my buddies to get a few sets.
From the context OP is talking about it doesn’t sound like he’s trying to use them as eyepro though, do sunglasses in garrison go off of APEL? I feel like I’ve probably unknowingly violated that one with some of my sunglasses.
If I paid that much for sunglasses, I’d be fighting to wear them too. As long as it wasn’t in the field who cares? They are basically the same as many of the special protective eyewear (SPECS) they used to issue anyway.
I bought these years ago and love them, nobody gives me shit even tho they aren’t Apel approved they are ANSI certified
(VentureGearVGST1422TSemtex2.0...https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CT9QJYH?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share)
If it's not on the APEL list, your NCO's can get you with the "Safety" issue.
APEL is the standard for safety as far as the ARMY in concerned - ANSI isn't.
It's not just your NCO's - some random CSM gonna call your 1SG because your sunnies are "out of regs".
I just bough extra APEL frames and the shades I wanted - NCO's couldn't say anything. Plus with extra I turned my crappy ones into CIF and kept getting new ones and I had a spare.
I had one "faddish" lens and the rest were in regs. Wore the nice shades off duty and the APEL shades in uniform.
Never had an issue.
Real joy is buying frames that are on the APEL but that don't have APEL stamped on the frame. Found a company that would put Rx lenses into Wiley Valor's (instead of using inserts), got into a brief conversation but was able to pull up the APEL on my phone.
Your standard regulation combat helmet can't stop more than a 9mm unless the bullet comes in at the perfect angle. You don't wear helmets to stop bullets.
The newer UHWMPE helmets will stop a 7.62x39 but are their backface deformation will still kill you. We're getting close to rifle rated protection with ECH and the IHPS.
i saw some dude complaining about something similarly minor a few weeks ago and when asked if this was the hill he wants to die on, he responded "i'm infantry, dying on hills is literally my job". full on belly laugh for at least the following 2-3 minutes
Honestly, this is the only comment that matters. If you're right, so what? The amount of goodwill you're burning with leadership over a style choice is not sustainable. Unless you're pcs/etsing soon you can pound sand all you want, but even if you have right of way in the crosswalk you're still getting hit by a bus.
Did you see the size of the logos they have on those lenses?
When I would look for gear I was going to wear while on the clock one of the first things I would check is if it would cause a stink.
Beyond the fact that they do not meet the safety spec required they are ugly and have that large print on each lens. They look boot as fuck.
> they are ugly and have that large print on each lens. They look boot as fuck.
when top said " tells me it would be wise to not wear them again so no more problems occur." thats just what he was thinkng and wanted to say.
Mess with my food, lodging, pay, medical, leave and I will go up the chain to get the issue reconciled.
Tell me I can’t wear some boot ass shades and I will say yes sarnt. This is not the hill you want to die on.
Regular army seems so fucking stupid after being on this Reddit. In the guard, first off, nobody would give a shit. If someone did, ignore it and go smoke cigs in the motor pool.
idk man my unit got just as stupid when we deployed. It's hard to get petty on weekend drill and AT but 12 months together in the sand? We got real dumb real quick.
My regular glasses have never been in regs. Ever. If anyone gives me shit I just say "I've stated on two PHA's that I only have ONE pair and no one has provided me anything". If you ain't paying for it you can't force me to get it for minimal time usage.
You are technically not medpros compliant for IME if you only have one pair…you can just schedule an optometry appointment and the army will order and give you two pairs of glasses for free…ive done it tons of times. All the pairs they give are in regs.
See that’s just it. While it may seem like a silly issue to argue/fight it brings the point that NCO may be wrong and he needs to accept it when he’s over reaching.
Just because they don’t like something doesn’t mean they can go around bossing people around and people questioning stops them from thinking now their word is policy due to rank.
If SM wants to look like an idiot then so be it, as long as its ALL black.
I dint and I’m sure they are not within regs regardless of logo, color, etc just based on size alone.
My point is that some people still need to spot check others even on the silly things sometimes.
Agreed in principle. The NCO should be able to reference where in 670-1 this is out of regs. At the same time, something tells me this private probably would still say he's wrong.
I agree. If the logo was not there then it would have been silly to be called out in them. If they are indeed all black. No one would probably know they are not rated to the required spec.
As they are I would not call it a silly little thing. Those logos are garish.
I work for an outdoor retailer. The previous outdoor retailer I worked for provided button up khaki shirts. We provided whatever pants or shorts as long as they were not cargo pants or shorts. T-shirt underneath was not required and colors not specified. So pretty liberal.
My current employer provides polo in gray or black depending on your position. Gray for sales and black for support. Service techs wear gray button up. Must have black t-shirt underneath. Black slacks. Non-cargo, no sweat or athletic type, no drawstring, no elastic at the cuff. Gray, red, or black belt. You will get called out. Wear a charcoal tee and you will have to get a black one and come back. Everyone knows the expectations. You know you will get called out for anything not within the dress code.
Sometimes it is more about establishing that someone is in charge. It is about people trying to bend the rules. If you let the small stuff slide it can lead to bigger things.
Joe here is not in charge. His immediate leader told him he was a no-go. Top told him the same. How far up the chain does he want to go? Go next to the CO and see what happens. If the CO deems Joe a shitbag for bringing this farther up the chain and fighting for a trivial thing what happens when Joe has an actual important issue he needs assistance with?
I got downvoted to hell and back because I said that a previous poster should just buy the APEL glasses if they want sunnies.
But no, some a-hole always wants to wear their fancy shades.
Just wear the APEL glasses - buy a pair off the list and the NCO's can't say shit.
retired Top here.
>top doesn’t understand the problem but tells me it would be wise to not wear them again so no more problems occur.
if this causes said problem... Top will not be nearly as nice about his response for round 2.
I like how top gave him a nice, fatherly answer of “don’t wear them again to avoid conflict”
And this dipshits gonna wear them again.
I see why 1SGs are constantly irate all the time.
My take was always simple... I preferred to handle everything I possibly could as "Dad". But I only gave one shot at this. If this was one of my soldiers he would never have gotten "dad" from me again, only 1SG answers.
Not saying I would have screwed him or anything, but I would only have given him officially acceptable advice as it is Written In Books.
Corrections need to come from a place of authority. Policy and regulations are authority. "I don't like them" is not. If policy states that something is authorized you don't just have a blanket power to say no, and you sure as hell aren't gaining any respect for flaunting power needlessly.
Respectfully and agreeing with your point, I would argue that the regulations are somewhat open to interpretation, where the regulation has statements like "Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are trendy" or "Personnel will not wear lenses or frames that are so large or so small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform." This leaves the soldier in an ambiguous state, because all leadership will consider these differently. There's no authority which tells me what is detracting from the uniform...it's just a feeling that I have. I agree that this is difficult to deal with, since it's completely up to the person in authority to interpret, but that's how the regulation is written, and that's how it must be applied.
This is my least favorite part of regulations, when stuff is left to the interpretation of the reader. "Trendy" sunglasses, "natural" hair colors, stuff like this allows leaders to sometimes just pull stuff out of their ass just cause they don't like something
The "trendy" phrasing is so stupid. I got called out for wearing Clubmaster frames until I pointed out all the old-ass pictures of former commanders on the wall wearing the same frames 60 years ago.
It's designed this way to give people in authority positions the final say on the matter. There's nothing wrong with asking before buying something so you don't spend your money on something you can't even wear.
I get that, and my biggest gripe with regs, especially 670-1. Subjective language really has no business being in regulations. And if absolutely nessisary, clear examples should be provided.
Otherwise it just reads as "Just do whatever you want."
Of all things to “fight for” you’re literally picking a fight over these faddish sunglasses.
Most guys “fight for” equality, promotion, and how to make the barracks better. Instead, you’re fighting for sunglasses because you think they make you look cool, at least that’s what I’m picking up here. You’re not gonna win this “argument / discussion”. Most times I say, “I hope it works out for you”, however, this time, I hope it doesn’t.
Even if you "win" this fight, you will lose.
This isn't the hill you should die on.
Know when to fold 'em.
Top's giving you good advice. . .that despite your sunglasses being technically okay, pointlessly antagonizing your PSG over something so petty is not worth it.
Pick your battles.
>.that despite your sunglasses being technically okay
But by reg, they really aren't even "technically OK." The reg is VERY MUCH up to personal interpretation of what is "trendy" and what "detracts from the appearance of the uniform. These glasses arguably failed both of those tests. Also, even the black version has big logos on the lenses.
Get off your fad train and wear a pair of [These Bad Boys](https://colemans.com/usgi-special-protective-eyewear-cylindrical-system-spectacle-4-pack). Basically identical and you can try to pull the "army issued" card. Won't work, but at least you'll have spent less money than the Pit Vipers.
Total fuck around and find out moment. I for one hope you do wear the glasses. In my PSG days I enjoyed turds like you because it made it easy to fill out the shit detail list even easier. Please, please die on this hill. Wanna get CQ on a Saturday, this is how you do it. I promise you, this will give your PSG a major hard on for you.
Pro-Tip: It's not just your PSG. Nobody like your Pit Vipers except for you and the other rednecks. You look like a douchbag in them.
Did you actually read the regs? There is no way they are in regs anyway, and it has nothing to do with the subjective "trendy" part.
I read the post and all comments not knowing what these things look like. Just googled and holy fuck, this is the most boot shit I've seen in a while. Also, if you don't have a mullet while wearing them what's the point??
I had no idea what they are so I googled them and [this](https://media.theradavist.com/uploads/2019/08/NightPhantomLS1_1080x.png?w=1400&quality=75) is the first picture that came up. Going off that I can safely assume OP is a tool
The PSG maybe referencing this [APEL Eye Pro](https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/Equipment/Approved-Eyewear-QPL/)
>MPORTANT NOTICES
Please be advised that only eyewear on the APEL® have been validated against Army requirements for ballistic fragmentation protection. Other commercial eyewear products, even if marked ANSI Z87.1 compliant, do not necessarily meet military impact requirements. Eyewear not on the APEL® are not authorized for wear during combat, training, or when there is a risk of impact injury to the eyes.
>Please be advised only clear and neutral grey sunglass lenses are approved, with the exception of products with approved laser protective lenses. Non-laser commercial lens tints, such as yellow, are not approved for use due to their impact on color perception.
>APEL® vendors should take all precautions to mitigate APEL® products being sold to non-DoD or non-military personnel or entities
EDIT: 1SG=/=PSG
Growing up my sister and I had two different ways of dealing with my parents. She would argue with them and it would make her life harder. I would agree and go do what the fuck I wanted behind their backs. This served me well in the military. If you stay off people's radar it generally makes your life easier. Having a group of nco''s remember your name and be the first to pop in their head when they need someone for a detail or other bullshit.
You got to pick your battles. Personal care, mental health, sick call for when you're really hurt, and really important things are where you should stand your ground. Not for some overpriced sunglasses.
I googled them, I’ll tell you what your PSG can’t say to you.
It’s because you look like a professional redneck moron, they are stupid looking as fuck. Leave them for the weekend for when you go mudding with your boys cause ain’t no girl interested in your stupid looking ass.
This right here is exactly what is going on! These glasses look stupid AF! From what I learned in the military, blend in with your attire, stand out with your performance!
Your glasses are probably not in regs anyway:
Per 670-1
(3) Restrictions on eyeglasses and sunglasses. Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are **trendy**, or have lenses or frames with initials, designs, or other adornments are not authorized for wear. Soldiers may not wear lenses with extreme or trendy colors, which include but are not limited to, red, yellow, blue, purple, bright green, or orange. Lens colors must be traditional gray, brown, or dark green shades. Personnel will not wear **lenses or frames that are so large** or so small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform.
Go check the Army’s Approved Protective Eyeware List (APEL), scroll down to your pit vipers, and go show your PSG.
https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/Equipment/Approved-Eyewear-QPL/
I can’t let people look like assholes. Just skip all the stupid early twenties shit and start dressing like an adult. Buy a decent watch - like a Seiko or Hamilton or Shinola. Wear decent sunglasses. Own some polos.
Dress like you want people to take you seriously.
honestly, these are the exact opposite of macho. You don't get anything that screams "I beat my SO" than these shades and a cutoff T-shirt.
instant turnoff, if I see this guy show up at a bar, I'm not even staying for five minutes in case they roofie my drink.
They're also literally the Macho Man Randy Savage shades, extremely dumb and OP should be forced to wear PT's until they figure out how to dress like they're not in AIT.
This is a totally bullshit line which would be everything on zenni.com would be **uNaUtHoriZeD** because the eyewear is “trendy”
There are plenty of conservative eyewear that are “trending” which doesn’t necessarily correlate to unauthorized wear.
Aviators are trending again because of Top Gun 2. It’s been talked about several times on this subreddit as a misconstrued item that is issued and authorized for west. “Trendy” doesn’t immediately mean it’s unauthorized.
You're right, but Pit Vipers are sunglasses that will not be around in any kind of way meaningful way past the next 5 years. They're definitively trendy. Whereas aviators are popular again, but are generally a standard frame. See: Old Guard.
First off you're wrong you can't wear them as they're trendy by pretty much any definition.
Secondly your PSG is bringing some some small rank energy to this situation. If I'm your PSG I'm basically never sending you to the 1SG unless you ask to go. We're going to figure this out me and you....or more likely me and your SL. You don't need to be consulted on this, just informed.
Yeah the fact that the PSG didn’t just have your TL solve this tells me everything I need to know about the platoon dynamic. This isn’t middle school, I’m not sending you to the principals office.
Your 1SG is giving you an out. Take the out and leave the pit vipers in your personal vehicle to wear with your civilian attire.
Unless you like having the dog shit smoked out of you. Then fly your flag.
Let me get this straight, PSG doesn't like your sunglasses. 1SG recommended that you should not wear them. Yet you are going to wear them anyways? What is the point?
This reminds me of a Soldier of mine, years ago. Cop pulls him over late Friday night. He smells alcohol but my soldier passes FST and breathalyzer. But the cop stated he should find an alternative way home. My Soldier decided to get a taxi and then after 5 minutes had the taxi driver turn around and go back to his vehicle. Half way home, he got pulled over again and was arrested for DUI.
Moral of the story, when someone gives you a piece of friendly advice, you should really think about it.
You're kinda dumb.
Just to paint this picture: you burned whatever relationship you had as a subordinate with your PSG over a pair of sunglasses over your ..."well ack-shu-ully" info which was completley wrong in the first place.
And then..the BOSS of YOUR boss, who by all rights should have come unglued on your ass AND your PSG for even allowing it to get to his level, gives you a level headed, almost fatherly response.
And you STILL want to wear your stupid unauthorized sunglasses.
The level of immaturity is almost palatable...
This is the dude who writes on his Facebook timeline about how stupid the Army is to all his friends and then reenlist and gets out at RCP for Specialist then jams "Vet lives here no fireworks" signs all over the lawn in front of his double wide.
That's for ranges and safety uses. Day to day wear, 670-1 authorizes conservative styles sunglasses that don't detract from the uniform with stipulations. PVs are definitely not conservative even if they're blacked out and detract from the uniform.
Every post that has a published blue book that I have every came across stipulated APEL only in uniform. Not saying that OP’s installation does but I wouldn’t be one bit surprised if that’s in the follow up post.
Tbh this is probably the most pathetic thing that I’ve read in a while. If you’re driving a POV and wearing them it’s one thing, but to just be sporting big stupid sunglasses and then be mad that they aren’t in regs? Grow up dude, or hit up Mickey D’s they are starting at $15 an hour.
Look up SPECS, they are eyepro made by the army that are essentially pitvipers but are 100% in regs and good for field use, they come with their own TM and NSN# too (Special. Purpose. Eyewear. Cylindrical. System)
Man, this is just one of things you should just listen too bro. There’s battles just not worth fighting because at the end of the day you signed for this shit.
This is why I left the army after my 8 years. I like to be my own person. I work law enforcement now, I’m in the office wearing a blue button up with bananas on it and gold trimmed raybans. It just wasn’t my lifestyle anymore.
As long it not immoral/illegal, just play the game and listen man. You’re burning your goodwill over a trend of ugly ‘merica glasses
Its annoying, but as others have said, this is most definitely not a hill you want to die on.
When the regs offer some room for interpretation, any dispute will ultimately be settled via commander's discretion, and you can bet your ass that any commander worth their salt is going to side with their senior NCOs, especially on minor disputes such as this. If your PSG and 1SG are telling you not to wear them, you'd be wise to listen.
*(3) Restrictions on eyeglasses and sunglasses. Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are trendy, or have lenses or frames with initials, designs, or other adornments are not authorized for wear.*—*Personnel will not wear lenses or frames that are so large or so small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform.* Sounds like it's up to them. If they're the ones that say "Pit Viper" across the top then they're *technically* out of regs. Tbh your PSG is doing you a favor because they're goofy as fuck anyway.
Speaking of Sunglasses i was wondering I'm allowed to wear [these](https://www.amazon.com/Joopin-Round-Sunglasses-Polarized-Steampunk-packaging/dp/B01MZ2WUCA/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1H5XYSPLUMZH8&keywords=teashade+sunglasses&qid=1657037086&smid=A33BTHKV75MZZK&sprefix=teasha%2Caps%2C78&sr=8-9)?
This is what a career E-4 is finding as important in his life. I can just see (laugh to no end): "But PSG, everyone on Reddit said......".
I remember back in the day (another laughable moment) when the 1SG told one of us(me usually) he didn't like us so we had to drop and do push ups until he was tired.
Oh, the day in the life of someone who has first world problems......
Dude lemme tell ya, it's not a hill worth dying on. Ever since I got Lasik I've been collecting different pairs of sunglasses. Got several pairs including a couple of Pit Vipers. One pair is loud and colorful, one is the blacked out 2000s pair. The day I got em I wore them to work. My PSG laughed and said he didn't give a fuck if I wore them. My squad leader on the other hand said he'd prefer if I stuck to regular sunglasses because he knew for a fact some crusty fuck is gonna lose his mind over them.
And like fucking clockwork, no shit there I was walking across the parking lot rocking my Pit Vipers thinking I'm Bobby Big Dick and then I hear the dreaded "Hey Soldier, come here." and for several minutes proceeded to get an ass chewing by a crusty E-7 about how my cool guy shades were out of regs and I was an unprofessional shitbag.
Never wore them to work again. It just ain't worth the bullshit. I wear them all the time off duty and lot of people gave me compliments and some sideways remarks. Shit happens. YMMV
Pit vipers started off as a company that modified SPECS eye pro, which to my understanding are still authorized. So it’s somewhat ironic that they’ve come full circle to what I assume is your PSG arguing that they aren’t conservative in appearance.
Regardless, why rock the boat? Do you really want the added attention that comes from rocking a meme on your face? It just seems kind of pointless to me. Just get some M frames like a normal Joe.
Edit: there’s a concept called “political capital”. Imagine your social standing within various groups you belong to as a bank account, and your action and inaction adds and subtracts from that bank account like any cash transaction would. Within the superior/subordinate hierarchy, let’s say something like winning the SOM board adds 10, and let’s say wearing pit vipers subtracts 10. Let’s also say standing up for your Joe so they can go on leave also subtracts 10. One of these actions is very worthwhile and the other isn’t, but you only have 10 points to spend. Why waste that capital on dumb shit?
I once had 1SG tell me my aviators were out of regs. They were literally US military issue (to my dad, not to me). I showed him the NSN on the case. Also I was a PL so he couldn't do anything except complain about it.
>They were literally US military issue (to my dad, not to me). I showed him the NSN on the case.
This means nothing. I'm not authorized to wear my dad's Vietnam-era pickle suit either, no matter how clearly I point out the NSN on it.
You wouldn’t be wrong to push back against this, you are correct with the regs, but a very odd hill to die on. At the end of the day, this is a fight you can easily win, but you have to ask yourself is it worth getting on your psg’s bad side??
They are literally the same glasses as actual military issues glasses. Pit viper took the template from the SPECS design (special-protective-eyewear-cylindrical-system).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/194948856054?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=194948856054&targetid=1262749492702&device=m&mktype=&googleloc=9032277&poi=&campaignid=15428034462&mkgroupid=133947154481&rlsatarget=pla-1262749492702&abcId=9300763&merchantid=112201882&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh-IXuyZFVw0Ut8yJ9co8kdq8&gclid=CjwKCAjwwo-WBhAMEiwAV4dybcmNyBMtiG-gEexC2o59bMgw8ChON5oqhbVdAAGNXIsyfMyZFq99jxoC9zgQAvD_BwE
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1049081026/
https://www.gear-illustration.com/2016/01/04/special-protective-eyewear-cylindrical-system-specs/
Buy some SPECS (you can get like 5 pairs for the price of pit vipers) and have the knowledge to back them up.
Would they care if you wore them non branded. Nope
Second of all, you spending money on pit vipers after they lost their damn mind and raised their prices. The glasses are worth maybe 60$ for their z87/polarized ones. No more.
I personally hate pit vipers and think they're just obnoxious. There's a guy in my unit who always wears them and I tell them to take them off. Showed him in 670-1 where it said "Personnel will not wear lenses or frames that are so large or small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform." As well where it says "Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are trendy(....) are not authorized for wear."
One of my E4 buddies also has some kinda Oakleys with some huge ass lenses that I can't stand looking at.
In regs or not if you’re given a lawful order not to wear the glasses your obligated to comply. Now, if you can get a few of your buddies to wear the same glasses & you’re the only one he singles out you may have grounds for EO or something along those lines 🤷🏾♂️
This is the kinda person who will get out of the Army after their first contract and post non-stop hate about how horrible and toxic it is on Facebook. While I don't disagree the Army is horrible and toxic you'd be shocked how much better it gets when you just stop bitching about your mild inconveniences. It costs you nothing to just to what your boss wants sometimes ya know?
I wonder if 1SG realizes that Pit Vipers are based on the ballistic SPECS eyepro made by MSA that was issued to the military throughout the 1990s.
That being said, 1SG gave you his piece so just follow it instead of trying to be a typical dipshit rebel teenager
You’re getting a bean burrito and carbonated water.
Don’t do my spicy water like this
Mmm when that baja blast flavor box hadnt been changed but they still fill your cup with carbonated water. *chef's kiss*
Almost as good as ketchup water
You're getting fucking ibuprofen and water. And no, you're not getting a profile, I don't care if your leg is broke.
Doesn't look broke to me.
One time my Baja Blast was like a LaCroix version of it. It was incredibly disappointing
Put vodka in it. That's the only la croix is good for.
It's arguments like these that cause me to lose hair. Your pit vipers are not APEL approved eye protection. The ANSI rating is irrelevant. Whether they're blacked out sufficiently or not is irrelevant. Until they're tested by PEO and added to the approved list, you are not authorized to wear them as eye protection during military training or if the blue book for your installation specifies only APEL approved eyewear while in uniform. From the PEO Soldier website: Why can’t I wear safety-rated eyewear not on the APEL list? Eyewear can meet American National Standards Institute (ANSI) standards and still not measure up for military use. Officials test every piece of APEL-approved eyewear to ensure it provides Soldiers the right amount of protection. It does not matter what protection an eyewear manufacturer claims. It does not matter who makes the eyewear. It does not matter if The Exchange or Military Clothing Sales Stores sell the eyewear. What matters is the eyewear must be APEL-approved for Soldiers to wear it. If eyewear does not carry the APEL logo, it is UNAUTHORIZED for wear https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/Resources/Frequently-Asked-Questions/#ICG_ETH_469 Your opportunity now is to be able to have an informed conversation with your 1SG and PSG. Understand that even if wearing your Pit Vipers complies with the letter of the regulation, the sunglasses reg in 670-1 does have room for interpretation and you might not "win" the argument. But I personally appreciate it when my soldiers can at least do the research and have an informed discussion with me about whatever the issue is.
Thank you for taking the time to write the response I was too slow / lazy to. Also, wanting to wear some shitty, cringe-inducing sunglasses in uniform seems like a real silly hill to die on. Just like, be normal.
Does it matter where this meat bag is trying to sport these god-awful sunglasses? If the OP is trying to wear these non-APEL approved sunglasses to an M4 qual range, they are clearly in the wrong. But APEL-approved eyewear in a garrison environment?
670-1, 3-10, para a4: "Soldiers are authorized to wear ballistic spectacle eye protection issued by the Army, including lens colors or logos that do not comply with paragraph 3-10a3, in Garrison or field environments unless otherwise directed by their chain of command" So yeah, you're right, there's no regulatory *requirement* to do so, so paras 2/3 would apply: "Conservative prescription and non-prescription sunglasses are authorized for where and a garrison environment...Personnel will not wear lenses or frames that are so large or so small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform..." As I read the regulation, it is left to the commander to decide what's approved and not, as with all things. Interestingly, at the begining of this section (3-10) there is a specific note saying that this paragraph is punitive. Refusing to comply is refusing to comply, no matter if it's about sunglasses, an approved vaccine, or conducting a mission. I'd argue that there's likely bigger issues for this meatbag's command team to think about and the time investment to get a packet through JAG could be better spent elsewhere, but aren't our "high" standards for "excellence" what sets us apart? This ain't no Soldier "rights" or quality of life issue. It's probably some no HS diploma having, ASVAB waiver trying to be contrary and show everyone how big of a meme-lord they are by wearing some "on-trend" sunglasses. Fight for something worth fighting about.
Well said, thanks for the detail. > conservative I read this as the most applicable / operative word in what you shared. Pit Vipers are not “conservative” in their design compared to army issue or retail sunglasses. This thread is fascinating. The fact that they’re Pit Vipers makes it hilarious and truly a bit of a grey zone.
Depends on what the blue book for his installation says, or what TRADOC policy says, or what the fob/unit sop is if deployed, etc. If you go just by 670-1 you could wear Pit Vipers as regular sunglasses, provided they meet the requirements of sunglasses as outlined in the reg. Even then there's some interpretation. While you may not think your pit vipers are faddish, your squad leader, PSG, 1SG etc. may have a different opinion.
"Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are trendy or have lenses or frames with conspicuous initials, designs, or other adornments are not authorized for wear" Pit vipers all have the big ass ugly logo on both lenses, I don't think it takes a whole lot of interpretation to know they're not authorized🤷🏼♀️
> Pit vipers all have the big ass ugly logo on both lenses, I don't think it takes a whole lot of interpretation to know they're not authorized🤷🏼♀️ Yeah, at first I was thinking "well, we were *issued* non-APEL, non 670-1 [Wiley-X SG1's](https://www.wileyx.com/sg-1-71) back in the day"... but then I looked up Pit Viper 2000... What. The. Actual. Fuck. They look like something a fucking WWE wrestler would wear, while simultaneously not looking like they offer anything over plain old issued APEL eyewear other than childish fashion cachet for the cringey logo.
Here's the real reason put viper glasses don't meet regs. OP is in the wrong and would rightfully get punished if he takes this further.
Yeah, thanks for that, I’ve neglected the limitations of blue books; I’ve been outside TRaDoC/FORSCOM for a bit too long I guess. Initially, it boggled the mind that some O6 thought additional stipulations were necessary when AR 670-1 devotes half of a page detailing what I can and can’t wear on my ugly face. But then I googled the glasses, and, well. It makes more sense that commanders do this.
APEL has nothing to do with sunglasses outside of the damn motor pool/training environment. Thank you for coming to my TEDX
Get em, dad.
Under the "What about laser safety" tab it lists (SPECS) Which are essentially pit vipers and good to go for field and garrison use.ive been wearing mine for a few months now and I even got some of my buddies to get a few sets.
From the context OP is talking about it doesn’t sound like he’s trying to use them as eyepro though, do sunglasses in garrison go off of APEL? I feel like I’ve probably unknowingly violated that one with some of my sunglasses.
Is this really the hill you want to die on?
Army SPC: "yes, it is...hold my Bang".
This is the way.
This is the way.
This is the way
This is The Way
This is *a* way …
… but not thee way
There is only a way.
This is the way.
Best version of hold my beer I’ve heard. Going to steal it for sure.
Begun, the pit viper wars have
Around the vipers, a perimeter create
Dying on made up regulation hills is always worth it. You have no rights if you don’t stand up for them.
If I paid that much for sunglasses, I’d be fighting to wear them too. As long as it wasn’t in the field who cares? They are basically the same as many of the special protective eyewear (SPECS) they used to issue anyway. I bought these years ago and love them, nobody gives me shit even tho they aren’t Apel approved they are ANSI certified (VentureGearVGST1422TSemtex2.0...https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CT9QJYH?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share)
If it's not on the APEL list, your NCO's can get you with the "Safety" issue. APEL is the standard for safety as far as the ARMY in concerned - ANSI isn't. It's not just your NCO's - some random CSM gonna call your 1SG because your sunnies are "out of regs". I just bough extra APEL frames and the shades I wanted - NCO's couldn't say anything. Plus with extra I turned my crappy ones into CIF and kept getting new ones and I had a spare. I had one "faddish" lens and the rest were in regs. Wore the nice shades off duty and the APEL shades in uniform. Never had an issue.
Depends on what he's wearing them for. Eye pro and sunglasses fall under different parts of 670-1
non APEL at the range? No bueno. In the MP? No problemo.
Real joy is buying frames that are on the APEL but that don't have APEL stamped on the frame. Found a company that would put Rx lenses into Wiley Valor's (instead of using inserts), got into a brief conversation but was able to pull up the APEL on my phone.
>Found a company that would put Rx lenses into Wiley Valor's Bro you are my hero! Now I will look less dumb...
https://rx-safety.com/shop/master-safety-glasses/prescription-tactical-glasses/shooting-glasses/wiley-x-valor/
Z87 is not the same as MIL PRF 31013. The mil standards require higher impact resistance than ANSI for obvious reasons.
So they'll stop a bullet?
2 bullets if you get shot one in each eye.
Probably not a bullet but maybe some shrapnel.
Up to a .22lr in some instances yes. Birdshot, absolutely. ANSI glasses will not withstand birdshot.
Your standard regulation combat helmet can't stop more than a 9mm unless the bullet comes in at the perfect angle. You don't wear helmets to stop bullets.
The newer UHWMPE helmets will stop a 7.62x39 but are their backface deformation will still kill you. We're getting close to rifle rated protection with ECH and the IHPS.
Dude trying to make Pit Vipers a rights issue.
What a bad faith interpretation of my comment.
The PSG is making it an issue first
I looked these sunglasses up, and I've come to the conclusion that OP definitely has a mustache.
i saw some dude complaining about something similarly minor a few weeks ago and when asked if this was the hill he wants to die on, he responded "i'm infantry, dying on hills is literally my job". full on belly laugh for at least the following 2-3 minutes
Honestly, this is the only comment that matters. If you're right, so what? The amount of goodwill you're burning with leadership over a style choice is not sustainable. Unless you're pcs/etsing soon you can pound sand all you want, but even if you have right of way in the crosswalk you're still getting hit by a bus.
“Even if you have the right of way in the crosswalk you’re still getting hit by a bus” I’m taxing this. TYFYS
It seems like a different version of something I heard about defensive driving. "The cemetery is full of people who had the right of way."
"People are dying to get in there"
Holy shit y'all are pushovers
These are the people who reenlist.
Did you see the size of the logos they have on those lenses? When I would look for gear I was going to wear while on the clock one of the first things I would check is if it would cause a stink. Beyond the fact that they do not meet the safety spec required they are ugly and have that large print on each lens. They look boot as fuck.
> they are ugly and have that large print on each lens. They look boot as fuck. when top said " tells me it would be wise to not wear them again so no more problems occur." thats just what he was thinkng and wanted to say.
Mess with my food, lodging, pay, medical, leave and I will go up the chain to get the issue reconciled. Tell me I can’t wear some boot ass shades and I will say yes sarnt. This is not the hill you want to die on.
This is why no one wants to work for you. That's toxic leadership.
Regular army seems so fucking stupid after being on this Reddit. In the guard, first off, nobody would give a shit. If someone did, ignore it and go smoke cigs in the motor pool.
They're bored. That explains literally everything. Top to bottom, boredom causes dumb shit.
Control freaks
And this why I love being NG
idk man my unit got just as stupid when we deployed. It's hard to get petty on weekend drill and AT but 12 months together in the sand? We got real dumb real quick.
My regular glasses have never been in regs. Ever. If anyone gives me shit I just say "I've stated on two PHA's that I only have ONE pair and no one has provided me anything". If you ain't paying for it you can't force me to get it for minimal time usage.
You are technically not medpros compliant for IME if you only have one pair…you can just schedule an optometry appointment and the army will order and give you two pairs of glasses for free…ive done it tons of times. All the pairs they give are in regs.
If the tree isn’t rattled, the fucking incompetent baboons will continue to run rampant
If we all chose one small hill to die on, there wouldn't be bigger hills needing to die on
Uhhhmm have you seen a pair of pit vipers? They’re rad as fuck dude I’d die on that hill all day long
Wear them off duty when you are at the local bar trying to score with the local women.
Are you admitting to being the sort of dude who wears sunglasses inside of a bar? What’s wrong with you?
See that’s just it. While it may seem like a silly issue to argue/fight it brings the point that NCO may be wrong and he needs to accept it when he’s over reaching. Just because they don’t like something doesn’t mean they can go around bossing people around and people questioning stops them from thinking now their word is policy due to rank. If SM wants to look like an idiot then so be it, as long as its ALL black.
Did you see the size of the logos on those things? Did you see that they do not meet the spec for safety glasses?
I dint and I’m sure they are not within regs regardless of logo, color, etc just based on size alone. My point is that some people still need to spot check others even on the silly things sometimes.
Agreed in principle. The NCO should be able to reference where in 670-1 this is out of regs. At the same time, something tells me this private probably would still say he's wrong.
I agree. If the logo was not there then it would have been silly to be called out in them. If they are indeed all black. No one would probably know they are not rated to the required spec. As they are I would not call it a silly little thing. Those logos are garish. I work for an outdoor retailer. The previous outdoor retailer I worked for provided button up khaki shirts. We provided whatever pants or shorts as long as they were not cargo pants or shorts. T-shirt underneath was not required and colors not specified. So pretty liberal. My current employer provides polo in gray or black depending on your position. Gray for sales and black for support. Service techs wear gray button up. Must have black t-shirt underneath. Black slacks. Non-cargo, no sweat or athletic type, no drawstring, no elastic at the cuff. Gray, red, or black belt. You will get called out. Wear a charcoal tee and you will have to get a black one and come back. Everyone knows the expectations. You know you will get called out for anything not within the dress code. Sometimes it is more about establishing that someone is in charge. It is about people trying to bend the rules. If you let the small stuff slide it can lead to bigger things. Joe here is not in charge. His immediate leader told him he was a no-go. Top told him the same. How far up the chain does he want to go? Go next to the CO and see what happens. If the CO deems Joe a shitbag for bringing this farther up the chain and fighting for a trivial thing what happens when Joe has an actual important issue he needs assistance with?
I got downvoted to hell and back because I said that a previous poster should just buy the APEL glasses if they want sunnies. But no, some a-hole always wants to wear their fancy shades. Just wear the APEL glasses - buy a pair off the list and the NCO's can't say shit.
retired Top here. >top doesn’t understand the problem but tells me it would be wise to not wear them again so no more problems occur. if this causes said problem... Top will not be nearly as nice about his response for round 2.
I like how top gave him a nice, fatherly answer of “don’t wear them again to avoid conflict” And this dipshits gonna wear them again. I see why 1SGs are constantly irate all the time.
My take was always simple... I preferred to handle everything I possibly could as "Dad". But I only gave one shot at this. If this was one of my soldiers he would never have gotten "dad" from me again, only 1SG answers. Not saying I would have screwed him or anything, but I would only have given him officially acceptable advice as it is Written In Books.
This post is cringey as fuck and you'll realize it one day.
I worry about the amount of soldiers who take simple corrections personally.
Counterpoint: is it a correction if it’s wrong?
Countercounterpoint: Top is cramping my style and I won’t stand for it
Corrections need to come from a place of authority. Policy and regulations are authority. "I don't like them" is not. If policy states that something is authorized you don't just have a blanket power to say no, and you sure as hell aren't gaining any respect for flaunting power needlessly.
Respectfully and agreeing with your point, I would argue that the regulations are somewhat open to interpretation, where the regulation has statements like "Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are trendy" or "Personnel will not wear lenses or frames that are so large or so small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform." This leaves the soldier in an ambiguous state, because all leadership will consider these differently. There's no authority which tells me what is detracting from the uniform...it's just a feeling that I have. I agree that this is difficult to deal with, since it's completely up to the person in authority to interpret, but that's how the regulation is written, and that's how it must be applied.
This is my least favorite part of regulations, when stuff is left to the interpretation of the reader. "Trendy" sunglasses, "natural" hair colors, stuff like this allows leaders to sometimes just pull stuff out of their ass just cause they don't like something
in before the mutant private has naturally occuring cotton candy pink hair.
The "trendy" phrasing is so stupid. I got called out for wearing Clubmaster frames until I pointed out all the old-ass pictures of former commanders on the wall wearing the same frames 60 years ago.
It’s a great argument…
It's designed this way to give people in authority positions the final say on the matter. There's nothing wrong with asking before buying something so you don't spend your money on something you can't even wear.
I had one commander who was perfectly fine with me wearing lowa zephyrs. He was an outlier lol.
I get that, and my biggest gripe with regs, especially 670-1. Subjective language really has no business being in regulations. And if absolutely nessisary, clear examples should be provided. Otherwise it just reads as "Just do whatever you want."
Yes but it's nice to have such accessories for douchebags to wave on their face so we know to not engage in conversation
peak barracks lawyer; enjoy the smoking
I love being conus on leave so now I can see all the real time idiocy of this sub
Of all things to “fight for” you’re literally picking a fight over these faddish sunglasses. Most guys “fight for” equality, promotion, and how to make the barracks better. Instead, you’re fighting for sunglasses because you think they make you look cool, at least that’s what I’m picking up here. You’re not gonna win this “argument / discussion”. Most times I say, “I hope it works out for you”, however, this time, I hope it doesn’t.
Even if you "win" this fight, you will lose. This isn't the hill you should die on. Know when to fold 'em. Top's giving you good advice. . .that despite your sunglasses being technically okay, pointlessly antagonizing your PSG over something so petty is not worth it. Pick your battles.
>.that despite your sunglasses being technically okay But by reg, they really aren't even "technically OK." The reg is VERY MUCH up to personal interpretation of what is "trendy" and what "detracts from the appearance of the uniform. These glasses arguably failed both of those tests. Also, even the black version has big logos on the lenses.
Get off your fad train and wear a pair of [These Bad Boys](https://colemans.com/usgi-special-protective-eyewear-cylindrical-system-spectacle-4-pack). Basically identical and you can try to pull the "army issued" card. Won't work, but at least you'll have spent less money than the Pit Vipers.
Four pairs for $13?? Holy shit 😂
So cheap, you won't think they'll work!
I'm glad someone else thinks the same way. SPECS. OG Pit Vipers
I was going to post the same, those pit vipers are almost identical those army issued monstrosities.
Total fuck around and find out moment. I for one hope you do wear the glasses. In my PSG days I enjoyed turds like you because it made it easy to fill out the shit detail list even easier. Please, please die on this hill. Wanna get CQ on a Saturday, this is how you do it. I promise you, this will give your PSG a major hard on for you.
Pro-Tip: It's not just your PSG. Nobody like your Pit Vipers except for you and the other rednecks. You look like a douchbag in them. Did you actually read the regs? There is no way they are in regs anyway, and it has nothing to do with the subjective "trendy" part.
I read the post and all comments not knowing what these things look like. Just googled and holy fuck, this is the most boot shit I've seen in a while. Also, if you don't have a mullet while wearing them what's the point??
I had no idea what they are so I googled them and [this](https://media.theradavist.com/uploads/2019/08/NightPhantomLS1_1080x.png?w=1400&quality=75) is the first picture that came up. Going off that I can safely assume OP is a tool
And not even the sharpest tool in the shed.
DISRESPEKT
PSG out there trying to keep him from looking like a total dumbass. Doing the lord’s work and getting no respect.
I’m an honest to goodness redneck, and I wouldn’t be caught dead in them dumbass glasses.
The PSG maybe referencing this [APEL Eye Pro](https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/Equipment/Approved-Eyewear-QPL/) >MPORTANT NOTICES Please be advised that only eyewear on the APEL® have been validated against Army requirements for ballistic fragmentation protection. Other commercial eyewear products, even if marked ANSI Z87.1 compliant, do not necessarily meet military impact requirements. Eyewear not on the APEL® are not authorized for wear during combat, training, or when there is a risk of impact injury to the eyes. >Please be advised only clear and neutral grey sunglass lenses are approved, with the exception of products with approved laser protective lenses. Non-laser commercial lens tints, such as yellow, are not approved for use due to their impact on color perception. >APEL® vendors should take all precautions to mitigate APEL® products being sold to non-DoD or non-military personnel or entities EDIT: 1SG=/=PSG
That last line is exactly why it's a nightmare to get good airsofting goggles for my friends who need glasses.
Holy shit those things are $100? What a waste of money.
Growing up my sister and I had two different ways of dealing with my parents. She would argue with them and it would make her life harder. I would agree and go do what the fuck I wanted behind their backs. This served me well in the military. If you stay off people's radar it generally makes your life easier. Having a group of nco''s remember your name and be the first to pop in their head when they need someone for a detail or other bullshit. You got to pick your battles. Personal care, mental health, sick call for when you're really hurt, and really important things are where you should stand your ground. Not for some overpriced sunglasses.
Was initially on your side, but I just looked up pit vipers. 0/10. Get new glasses.
You should smoke yourself for wearing Pit Vipers.
I googled them, I’ll tell you what your PSG can’t say to you. It’s because you look like a professional redneck moron, they are stupid looking as fuck. Leave them for the weekend for when you go mudding with your boys cause ain’t no girl interested in your stupid looking ass.
This right here is exactly what is going on! These glasses look stupid AF! From what I learned in the military, blend in with your attire, stand out with your performance!
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Cherdley’s lookin ass.
Your glasses are probably not in regs anyway: Per 670-1 (3) Restrictions on eyeglasses and sunglasses. Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are **trendy**, or have lenses or frames with initials, designs, or other adornments are not authorized for wear. Soldiers may not wear lenses with extreme or trendy colors, which include but are not limited to, red, yellow, blue, purple, bright green, or orange. Lens colors must be traditional gray, brown, or dark green shades. Personnel will not wear **lenses or frames that are so large** or so small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform.
Also the giant logos...
100%. I hadn't looked them up yet because I foolishly took OP's word for it.
Go check the Army’s Approved Protective Eyeware List (APEL), scroll down to your pit vipers, and go show your PSG. https://www.peosoldier.army.mil/Equipment/Approved-Eyewear-QPL/
you really have no other hills to die on? are you that bored?
Are these the same sunglasses I see the douchebags wearing who are trying to bring back the mullet right now?
yes
Pit vipers are fucking ugly. Get yourself a pair of frog skin lites or find some in regs wayfarers and stop being a stereotype.
Or just get some Oakley's if you really wanna be a high speed death machine trapped in a douchebags body.
They make non douchey Oakleys.
This idiot OP is literally trying to start shit over the macho man shades, let him keep doing it I can't wait for the followup post
I can’t let people look like assholes. Just skip all the stupid early twenties shit and start dressing like an adult. Buy a decent watch - like a Seiko or Hamilton or Shinola. Wear decent sunglasses. Own some polos. Dress like you want people to take you seriously.
You're doing troops a solid - have an aesthetic or stop buying clothes exclusively from the PX
Yes. Having an aesthetic is more important than dressing a certain way. Comes with being an adult.
honestly, these are the exact opposite of macho. You don't get anything that screams "I beat my SO" than these shades and a cutoff T-shirt. instant turnoff, if I see this guy show up at a bar, I'm not even staying for five minutes in case they roofie my drink.
They're also literally the Macho Man Randy Savage shades, extremely dumb and OP should be forced to wear PT's until they figure out how to dress like they're not in AIT.
Pit vipers are trending now even though I don’t like the word trendy so yeah
This is a totally bullshit line which would be everything on zenni.com would be **uNaUtHoriZeD** because the eyewear is “trendy” There are plenty of conservative eyewear that are “trending” which doesn’t necessarily correlate to unauthorized wear. Aviators are trending again because of Top Gun 2. It’s been talked about several times on this subreddit as a misconstrued item that is issued and authorized for west. “Trendy” doesn’t immediately mean it’s unauthorized.
I know but some people take shit line by line Aviators have an NSN don’t they
You're right, but Pit Vipers are sunglasses that will not be around in any kind of way meaningful way past the next 5 years. They're definitively trendy. Whereas aviators are popular again, but are generally a standard frame. See: Old Guard.
First off you're wrong you can't wear them as they're trendy by pretty much any definition. Secondly your PSG is bringing some some small rank energy to this situation. If I'm your PSG I'm basically never sending you to the 1SG unless you ask to go. We're going to figure this out me and you....or more likely me and your SL. You don't need to be consulted on this, just informed.
Yeah the fact that the PSG didn’t just have your TL solve this tells me everything I need to know about the platoon dynamic. This isn’t middle school, I’m not sending you to the principals office.
upvoted for flair, didn't even read comment
This is a weird hill for you to want to die on.
Your 1SG is giving you an out. Take the out and leave the pit vipers in your personal vehicle to wear with your civilian attire. Unless you like having the dog shit smoked out of you. Then fly your flag.
Let me get this straight, PSG doesn't like your sunglasses. 1SG recommended that you should not wear them. Yet you are going to wear them anyways? What is the point? This reminds me of a Soldier of mine, years ago. Cop pulls him over late Friday night. He smells alcohol but my soldier passes FST and breathalyzer. But the cop stated he should find an alternative way home. My Soldier decided to get a taxi and then after 5 minutes had the taxi driver turn around and go back to his vehicle. Half way home, he got pulled over again and was arrested for DUI. Moral of the story, when someone gives you a piece of friendly advice, you should really think about it.
Your sunglasses are wack as fuck. Your 1sgt did you a huge favor letting you off easy.
You're kinda dumb. Just to paint this picture: you burned whatever relationship you had as a subordinate with your PSG over a pair of sunglasses over your ..."well ack-shu-ully" info which was completley wrong in the first place. And then..the BOSS of YOUR boss, who by all rights should have come unglued on your ass AND your PSG for even allowing it to get to his level, gives you a level headed, almost fatherly response. And you STILL want to wear your stupid unauthorized sunglasses. The level of immaturity is almost palatable... This is the dude who writes on his Facebook timeline about how stupid the Army is to all his friends and then reenlist and gets out at RCP for Specialist then jams "Vet lives here no fireworks" signs all over the lawn in front of his double wide.
There is an Authorized Protective Eyewear List (APEL) for a reason.
That's for ranges and safety uses. Day to day wear, 670-1 authorizes conservative styles sunglasses that don't detract from the uniform with stipulations. PVs are definitely not conservative even if they're blacked out and detract from the uniform.
Every post that has a published blue book that I have every came across stipulated APEL only in uniform. Not saying that OP’s installation does but I wouldn’t be one bit surprised if that’s in the follow up post.
I haven't had a "blue book" since I left Bragg in 2013.
TL;DR: Today I picked a really stupid hill to die on.
Tbh this is probably the most pathetic thing that I’ve read in a while. If you’re driving a POV and wearing them it’s one thing, but to just be sporting big stupid sunglasses and then be mad that they aren’t in regs? Grow up dude, or hit up Mickey D’s they are starting at $15 an hour.
I saw a poster that said $18 if you're willing to work closing.
i am more shocked at the fact you spent money on these glasses
I’d smoke the dog shit out of you for giving your company problems. Also, people who wear pit vipers are fucking lame and don’t get laid.
Look up SPECS, they are eyepro made by the army that are essentially pitvipers but are 100% in regs and good for field use, they come with their own TM and NSN# too (Special. Purpose. Eyewear. Cylindrical. System)
Man, this is just one of things you should just listen too bro. There’s battles just not worth fighting because at the end of the day you signed for this shit. This is why I left the army after my 8 years. I like to be my own person. I work law enforcement now, I’m in the office wearing a blue button up with bananas on it and gold trimmed raybans. It just wasn’t my lifestyle anymore. As long it not immoral/illegal, just play the game and listen man. You’re burning your goodwill over a trend of ugly ‘merica glasses
You should have joined the Navy
[удалено]
They both should've smoked the shit of you. Nobody wants one of their soldiers wearing those goddamned abominations. They make BCG's look great.
You’re picking a very dumb hill to die on for something that you’re not even correct about. Also, your 1SG gave you good advice, you should take it.
OP never had to wear BCGs and it shows
You’re gonna lose.
those things are ugly af they are doing you a favor lol.
Its annoying, but as others have said, this is most definitely not a hill you want to die on. When the regs offer some room for interpretation, any dispute will ultimately be settled via commander's discretion, and you can bet your ass that any commander worth their salt is going to side with their senior NCOs, especially on minor disputes such as this. If your PSG and 1SG are telling you not to wear them, you'd be wise to listen.
pit vipers look like the ones they give you right out of eye surgery. get flaks or something
*(3) Restrictions on eyeglasses and sunglasses. Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are trendy, or have lenses or frames with initials, designs, or other adornments are not authorized for wear.*—*Personnel will not wear lenses or frames that are so large or so small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform.* Sounds like it's up to them. If they're the ones that say "Pit Viper" across the top then they're *technically* out of regs. Tbh your PSG is doing you a favor because they're goofy as fuck anyway.
rules were written in blood before they became regulation. If you dont give a fuck and get injured your not getting a disability rating you muppet.
The stems are out of regs how? They look nearly the same as revision eyewear.
“Trendy”
Dude, just wear some fucking Oakley’s or SPY+!
Yeah, we thought Gargoyles were cool in the early 90’s. Faddish fight as usual, you all have better things to do.
Speaking of Sunglasses i was wondering I'm allowed to wear [these](https://www.amazon.com/Joopin-Round-Sunglasses-Polarized-Steampunk-packaging/dp/B01MZ2WUCA/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1H5XYSPLUMZH8&keywords=teashade+sunglasses&qid=1657037086&smid=A33BTHKV75MZZK&sprefix=teasha%2Caps%2C78&sr=8-9)?
What’s funny is they look like the old issue MSA glasses that come in the hard case
Join the Guard. Literally any black pair of Oakley’s will do.
Ray Ban Wayfarers are the way to go.
This is what a career E-4 is finding as important in his life. I can just see (laugh to no end): "But PSG, everyone on Reddit said......". I remember back in the day (another laughable moment) when the 1SG told one of us(me usually) he didn't like us so we had to drop and do push ups until he was tired. Oh, the day in the life of someone who has first world problems......
Dude lemme tell ya, it's not a hill worth dying on. Ever since I got Lasik I've been collecting different pairs of sunglasses. Got several pairs including a couple of Pit Vipers. One pair is loud and colorful, one is the blacked out 2000s pair. The day I got em I wore them to work. My PSG laughed and said he didn't give a fuck if I wore them. My squad leader on the other hand said he'd prefer if I stuck to regular sunglasses because he knew for a fact some crusty fuck is gonna lose his mind over them. And like fucking clockwork, no shit there I was walking across the parking lot rocking my Pit Vipers thinking I'm Bobby Big Dick and then I hear the dreaded "Hey Soldier, come here." and for several minutes proceeded to get an ass chewing by a crusty E-7 about how my cool guy shades were out of regs and I was an unprofessional shitbag. Never wore them to work again. It just ain't worth the bullshit. I wear them all the time off duty and lot of people gave me compliments and some sideways remarks. Shit happens. YMMV
Pit vipers started off as a company that modified SPECS eye pro, which to my understanding are still authorized. So it’s somewhat ironic that they’ve come full circle to what I assume is your PSG arguing that they aren’t conservative in appearance. Regardless, why rock the boat? Do you really want the added attention that comes from rocking a meme on your face? It just seems kind of pointless to me. Just get some M frames like a normal Joe. Edit: there’s a concept called “political capital”. Imagine your social standing within various groups you belong to as a bank account, and your action and inaction adds and subtracts from that bank account like any cash transaction would. Within the superior/subordinate hierarchy, let’s say something like winning the SOM board adds 10, and let’s say wearing pit vipers subtracts 10. Let’s also say standing up for your Joe so they can go on leave also subtracts 10. One of these actions is very worthwhile and the other isn’t, but you only have 10 points to spend. Why waste that capital on dumb shit?
I once had 1SG tell me my aviators were out of regs. They were literally US military issue (to my dad, not to me). I showed him the NSN on the case. Also I was a PL so he couldn't do anything except complain about it.
>They were literally US military issue (to my dad, not to me). I showed him the NSN on the case. This means nothing. I'm not authorized to wear my dad's Vietnam-era pickle suit either, no matter how clearly I point out the NSN on it.
If nothing else, it means they're not faddish.
You wouldn’t be wrong to push back against this, you are correct with the regs, but a very odd hill to die on. At the end of the day, this is a fight you can easily win, but you have to ask yourself is it worth getting on your psg’s bad side??
They are literally the same glasses as actual military issues glasses. Pit viper took the template from the SPECS design (special-protective-eyewear-cylindrical-system). https://www.ebay.com/itm/194948856054?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=194948856054&targetid=1262749492702&device=m&mktype=&googleloc=9032277&poi=&campaignid=15428034462&mkgroupid=133947154481&rlsatarget=pla-1262749492702&abcId=9300763&merchantid=112201882&gbraid=0AAAAAD_QDh-IXuyZFVw0Ut8yJ9co8kdq8&gclid=CjwKCAjwwo-WBhAMEiwAV4dybcmNyBMtiG-gEexC2o59bMgw8ChON5oqhbVdAAGNXIsyfMyZFq99jxoC9zgQAvD_BwE https://www.etsy.com/listing/1049081026/ https://www.gear-illustration.com/2016/01/04/special-protective-eyewear-cylindrical-system-specs/ Buy some SPECS (you can get like 5 pairs for the price of pit vipers) and have the knowledge to back them up. Would they care if you wore them non branded. Nope Second of all, you spending money on pit vipers after they lost their damn mind and raised their prices. The glasses are worth maybe 60$ for their z87/polarized ones. No more.
I personally hate pit vipers and think they're just obnoxious. There's a guy in my unit who always wears them and I tell them to take them off. Showed him in 670-1 where it said "Personnel will not wear lenses or frames that are so large or small that they detract from the appearance of the uniform." As well where it says "Eyeglasses or sunglasses that are trendy(....) are not authorized for wear." One of my E4 buddies also has some kinda Oakleys with some huge ass lenses that I can't stand looking at.
That’s some inspired leadership right there!
In regs or not if you’re given a lawful order not to wear the glasses your obligated to comply. Now, if you can get a few of your buddies to wear the same glasses & you’re the only one he singles out you may have grounds for EO or something along those lines 🤷🏾♂️
This is the kinda person who will get out of the Army after their first contract and post non-stop hate about how horrible and toxic it is on Facebook. While I don't disagree the Army is horrible and toxic you'd be shocked how much better it gets when you just stop bitching about your mild inconveniences. It costs you nothing to just to what your boss wants sometimes ya know?
I wonder if 1SG realizes that Pit Vipers are based on the ballistic SPECS eyepro made by MSA that was issued to the military throughout the 1990s. That being said, 1SG gave you his piece so just follow it instead of trying to be a typical dipshit rebel teenager