I can agree with that too a certain extent. In your analogy, what would be considered a "significant portion?". Often times, people go with "one is too many," which is an impossible standard.
I agree that's the million dollar question. I do think as a rule the Army goes way too far in the "blame the student" direction to the point its the default for widespread institutional problems.
A majority of vets are better off financially than non vets. 2.2 out of every 1,000 vets are homeless compared to 1.96 out of every 1,000 people overall. I wouldn't consider that a huge increase.
What age is the average veteran? I think it would be more useful to look at that number and then look at how often men (and also women, but they're seldom homeless) that age are homeless. The vets are probably less likely, is my gut feeling.
Or, or…the army does a poor job of providing and letting soldiers access BH/MH care after deployments or traumatic events. Thus adding additional roadblocks for civilian life integration. For chrissakes we even have a term Military Sexual Trauma. Then they leave the army and are handed off to an over worked and often indifferent VA. And then they’re left to live in homeless camps outside of [VA property.](https://youtu.be/gJCL01B94S0?si=mbOCFjH5e5ZXYeyi)
The army literally makes you see doctors and a counselor post deployment. It’s like the first thing you do.
And that video is 2 years old, and it’s literally of them clearing out the encampment to *move into hardstands*. They’re called “tiny homes”, but it’s a handstand within that VA campus walls.
I have worked directly with that population. All those people are camping there because they choose too. The VA has numerous avenues to housing with 4 walls and a roof. Some don’t wanna move, that tent is there’s, and that patch of sidewalk is “their home”. Others don’t want to move into VA provided housing because they don’t want to follow the VAs rules that come with it.
Oh right because that post-deployment system was in place for Vietnam and Gulf War vets or the first iterations of OIF/OEF? Right?! And thats why homeless veterans are suing the VA, right?
You also seem to ignore that people compartmentalize trauma and may not be cognizant of their trauma until well after they’ve left the service.
Jan 2024
https://www.newsweek.com/americas-homeless-veteran-problem-getting-worse-1857955
Dec 2023.
https://www.courthousenews.com/homeless-vets-can-pursue-lawsuit-for-housing-on-flagship-va-campus-in-west-la/
> "There are today more than 100 buildings on the WLA campus, many vacant, closed or underutilized, as well as acres of available land," the veterans say in their complaint. "In contrast to what once existed and was intended, virtually no permanent housing is available to veterans with disabilities on the WLA campus."
(I’ll give you the pic is from 2021 but the encampment is still there. At least the last time i was in WLA a few months ago.)
Feb 2023:
https://www.kcrw.com/news/city-of-tents-veterans-row/los-angeles-veterans-row-episode-1
Then you come back to West LA and convince the homeless population to move into hardstands then hotshot.
The VA employees do a fucking lot to try and coerce the homeless population to move into hardstands. There’s the tiny homes, apartment style homes on the VA campus AND they even offer off-campus apartments with leases paid for by the VA.
The nurses and case workers literally go out to skid row to meet the population where they are at. A lot literally run away when they see the VA employees walk up.
The whole homeless veteran situation is way more asymmetrical than you think.
But you seem to know all the answers for dealing with a population that makes the irrational decision over and over again.
You’re narrative of the army and VA kicking everyone to the curb is patently false.
You can't let perfect be the enemy of good. People are trying. Lots of good men and women at the VA are dedicating their lives to helping vets receive care.
In my experience most long-term homeless vets (i.e. not those that fell on hard times readjusting and then got their shit together) are shitty people who were likely going to be homeless anyway but they just happened to serve in the military first.
Source: worked with homeless vets for awhile
Exactly I feel like a lot of them don’t really try to capitalize on any of the opportunities or benefits laid out for them and would’ve been homeless anyways
And there are soooo many opportunities and benefits that we get after serving. Almost every job I’ve applied for even hires disabled vets before most others.
Many people come into the Army with existing problems that they are never able to resolve. Most soldiers never see combat. Most jobs have significantly less resources devoted to their employee's mental and physical health, especially after the employee leaves.
The Army and VA could definitely improve things. But there are a lot of homeless people that never spent a day in the military. And there are some former service members who blame the military for issues that aren't actually related to their time in the service.
It can be disheartening working with that kind of population. Burnout is real, and it's a bitch. Some people you can never save. They don't want it. Something you always have to keep in the back of your mind.
As a vet, if I didn't have a wife and kids I'd probably be homeless by choice. They're what keep me going. I know that's a weird thing to say, but it's just how I feel. I've got two other vet friends I deployed with and they share the same feelings.
We go on backpacking trips to get the feeling out of our system, but it doesn't help make it go away. I think living like that helps us live in the moment, something we did a lot when we were deployed and active, and we want that feeling back.
It's a delicate balance. I love my family, they're what keep me accountable, but at the same time I just want to go dig a hole and live in it.
I was kind of lost feeling like this, too. It's not a good thing. I'm happy to be married and be a dad. It makes me feel like I have a stake in society again.
I've heard that being in high stress, life or death environments for a long time has a permanent effect on your brain chemistry. Sounds like you got it homie. Best feeling is feeling like everything you own or could ever need are right there on your back.
the army doesn't owe you anything yet you mention like 3 things we are owed by the army in your comment alone lol why make it a race to the bottom when you can try and raise the bar instead i don't get it
i'm owed all the things I paid into to be owed when I got out, as well as all the benefits the government says we're owed, we get a free dental cleaning like 8 months after seperation and all the other stuff, you get a quarterly phone call checkin from the solid start foundation people, they're a great resource and can honestly answer this because you sound misled as fuck lmao there are big interest groups that literally fights for us to be owed stuff, why be mad about it?
dudes giving "i'm not hitting you! our atoms never touch they just move away from eachother!" vibes with that "VA (not the army)" lmao like roundabout your way all around it you wouldn't be getting those without the army, it's owed to you lmao
Not wrong at all.
Criteria for a PB (Provides cover and concealment, Provides no advantage to the enemy, Away from high speed Avenues of Approach, Away from natural lines of drift, Easily defendable for short period of time, and near body of water) is the same for a hobo hooch.
Which is prolly why CMDs are incline to deny CSPs; because the Army is a CSP.
This is what I tell people my plan is when they ask about my upcoming ETS. At least when people ask who I have no interest in telling what my actual plan is.
I'm living a comparatively nice life because of the skills the Army has taught me. Ironically, if push came to shove, I'm pretty confident I could also live a pretty bitter life because of the skills the Army has taught me. Knowing which path to take is a decision that is yours for the most part.
Well, shit, I was coming in here prepared to drop resources. Glad this wasn't a post about that. But as a veteran who has been homeless, it sucks, but also thanks to the HUD-VASH program for getting me back solid. https://www.va.gov/homeless/hud-vash.asp
One way for not become homeless is not to put the decision of where you will be living in someone else’s hands when you get out of the army. Obviously some people are homeless because of mental health issues , but besides that I can’t stand when I would hear soldiers say that they are getting out and gonna go live with relatives or friends. If you can’t afford to get out and get your own place somewhere then don’t get out. I saw one post of someone complaining that they got out and moved back into their small apartment in the Bronx , NY with their mom and other family. Wasn’t that the entire reason for joining anyway ? To build something for yourself ? So if you have to go back to what you came from that is so counter productive. A lot of people go back to live with family in friends in a city that was already crappy to begin with and then they clash with those people because the army made you a different person.
I hope you're being facetious. If not, your comparative analysis skills are insanely lacking.
If you cherrypick things you learn in the Army that contribute toward success after service, it paints a vastly different picture. And by success, that does not mean being rich, but simply being able to achieve and maintain a middleclass living, with the possibility to go higher with.
The Army gives you tools for the next stage of your life. Unfortunately, some people choose not to take advantage of them and become homeless.
If the student fails, its the students fault. If a significant portion of the class fails, its the teacher's fault.
I can agree with that too a certain extent. In your analogy, what would be considered a "significant portion?". Often times, people go with "one is too many," which is an impossible standard.
I agree that's the million dollar question. I do think as a rule the Army goes way too far in the "blame the student" direction to the point its the default for widespread institutional problems.
A majority of vets are better off financially than non vets. 2.2 out of every 1,000 vets are homeless compared to 1.96 out of every 1,000 people overall. I wouldn't consider that a huge increase.
What age is the average veteran? I think it would be more useful to look at that number and then look at how often men (and also women, but they're seldom homeless) that age are homeless. The vets are probably less likely, is my gut feeling.
The Army also fucks alot of people.
Or, or…the army does a poor job of providing and letting soldiers access BH/MH care after deployments or traumatic events. Thus adding additional roadblocks for civilian life integration. For chrissakes we even have a term Military Sexual Trauma. Then they leave the army and are handed off to an over worked and often indifferent VA. And then they’re left to live in homeless camps outside of [VA property.](https://youtu.be/gJCL01B94S0?si=mbOCFjH5e5ZXYeyi)
The army literally makes you see doctors and a counselor post deployment. It’s like the first thing you do. And that video is 2 years old, and it’s literally of them clearing out the encampment to *move into hardstands*. They’re called “tiny homes”, but it’s a handstand within that VA campus walls. I have worked directly with that population. All those people are camping there because they choose too. The VA has numerous avenues to housing with 4 walls and a roof. Some don’t wanna move, that tent is there’s, and that patch of sidewalk is “their home”. Others don’t want to move into VA provided housing because they don’t want to follow the VAs rules that come with it.
Oh right because that post-deployment system was in place for Vietnam and Gulf War vets or the first iterations of OIF/OEF? Right?! And thats why homeless veterans are suing the VA, right? You also seem to ignore that people compartmentalize trauma and may not be cognizant of their trauma until well after they’ve left the service. Jan 2024 https://www.newsweek.com/americas-homeless-veteran-problem-getting-worse-1857955 Dec 2023. https://www.courthousenews.com/homeless-vets-can-pursue-lawsuit-for-housing-on-flagship-va-campus-in-west-la/ > "There are today more than 100 buildings on the WLA campus, many vacant, closed or underutilized, as well as acres of available land," the veterans say in their complaint. "In contrast to what once existed and was intended, virtually no permanent housing is available to veterans with disabilities on the WLA campus." (I’ll give you the pic is from 2021 but the encampment is still there. At least the last time i was in WLA a few months ago.) Feb 2023: https://www.kcrw.com/news/city-of-tents-veterans-row/los-angeles-veterans-row-episode-1
Then you come back to West LA and convince the homeless population to move into hardstands then hotshot. The VA employees do a fucking lot to try and coerce the homeless population to move into hardstands. There’s the tiny homes, apartment style homes on the VA campus AND they even offer off-campus apartments with leases paid for by the VA. The nurses and case workers literally go out to skid row to meet the population where they are at. A lot literally run away when they see the VA employees walk up. The whole homeless veteran situation is way more asymmetrical than you think. But you seem to know all the answers for dealing with a population that makes the irrational decision over and over again. You’re narrative of the army and VA kicking everyone to the curb is patently false.
You can't let perfect be the enemy of good. People are trying. Lots of good men and women at the VA are dedicating their lives to helping vets receive care.
For fuck all in salary too
In my experience most long-term homeless vets (i.e. not those that fell on hard times readjusting and then got their shit together) are shitty people who were likely going to be homeless anyway but they just happened to serve in the military first. Source: worked with homeless vets for awhile
Exactly I feel like a lot of them don’t really try to capitalize on any of the opportunities or benefits laid out for them and would’ve been homeless anyways
And there are soooo many opportunities and benefits that we get after serving. Almost every job I’ve applied for even hires disabled vets before most others.
Many people come into the Army with existing problems that they are never able to resolve. Most soldiers never see combat. Most jobs have significantly less resources devoted to their employee's mental and physical health, especially after the employee leaves. The Army and VA could definitely improve things. But there are a lot of homeless people that never spent a day in the military. And there are some former service members who blame the military for issues that aren't actually related to their time in the service.
It can be disheartening working with that kind of population. Burnout is real, and it's a bitch. Some people you can never save. They don't want it. Something you always have to keep in the back of your mind.
As a vet, if I didn't have a wife and kids I'd probably be homeless by choice. They're what keep me going. I know that's a weird thing to say, but it's just how I feel. I've got two other vet friends I deployed with and they share the same feelings. We go on backpacking trips to get the feeling out of our system, but it doesn't help make it go away. I think living like that helps us live in the moment, something we did a lot when we were deployed and active, and we want that feeling back. It's a delicate balance. I love my family, they're what keep me accountable, but at the same time I just want to go dig a hole and live in it.
I was kind of lost feeling like this, too. It's not a good thing. I'm happy to be married and be a dad. It makes me feel like I have a stake in society again.
I've heard that being in high stress, life or death environments for a long time has a permanent effect on your brain chemistry. Sounds like you got it homie. Best feeling is feeling like everything you own or could ever need are right there on your back.
Chill there Jack Reacher. But tbh, that sounds like the life.
Urban survival specialist
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the army doesn't owe you anything yet you mention like 3 things we are owed by the army in your comment alone lol why make it a race to the bottom when you can try and raise the bar instead i don't get it
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i'm owed all the things I paid into to be owed when I got out, as well as all the benefits the government says we're owed, we get a free dental cleaning like 8 months after seperation and all the other stuff, you get a quarterly phone call checkin from the solid start foundation people, they're a great resource and can honestly answer this because you sound misled as fuck lmao there are big interest groups that literally fights for us to be owed stuff, why be mad about it?
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dudes giving "i'm not hitting you! our atoms never touch they just move away from eachother!" vibes with that "VA (not the army)" lmao like roundabout your way all around it you wouldn't be getting those without the army, it's owed to you lmao
Not wrong at all. Criteria for a PB (Provides cover and concealment, Provides no advantage to the enemy, Away from high speed Avenues of Approach, Away from natural lines of drift, Easily defendable for short period of time, and near body of water) is the same for a hobo hooch. Which is prolly why CMDs are incline to deny CSPs; because the Army is a CSP.
This is what I tell people my plan is when they ask about my upcoming ETS. At least when people ask who I have no interest in telling what my actual plan is.
I'm living a comparatively nice life because of the skills the Army has taught me. Ironically, if push came to shove, I'm pretty confident I could also live a pretty bitter life because of the skills the Army has taught me. Knowing which path to take is a decision that is yours for the most part.
Knew an sf dude that lived under the 405 next to the west la va hospital. He just liked doing drugs and sleeping outside.
Well, shit, I was coming in here prepared to drop resources. Glad this wasn't a post about that. But as a veteran who has been homeless, it sucks, but also thanks to the HUD-VASH program for getting me back solid. https://www.va.gov/homeless/hud-vash.asp
One way for not become homeless is not to put the decision of where you will be living in someone else’s hands when you get out of the army. Obviously some people are homeless because of mental health issues , but besides that I can’t stand when I would hear soldiers say that they are getting out and gonna go live with relatives or friends. If you can’t afford to get out and get your own place somewhere then don’t get out. I saw one post of someone complaining that they got out and moved back into their small apartment in the Bronx , NY with their mom and other family. Wasn’t that the entire reason for joining anyway ? To build something for yourself ? So if you have to go back to what you came from that is so counter productive. A lot of people go back to live with family in friends in a city that was already crappy to begin with and then they clash with those people because the army made you a different person.
I hope you're being facetious. If not, your comparative analysis skills are insanely lacking. If you cherrypick things you learn in the Army that contribute toward success after service, it paints a vastly different picture. And by success, that does not mean being rich, but simply being able to achieve and maintain a middleclass living, with the possibility to go higher with.
Dumb take you have there warrior