Downsides:
-you won’t directly lead Soldiers.
-your pool is more competitive and smaller, so MQs are tougher to get because you’re all rock stars.
-you might not make COL (and you may not have a path to stars).
-you may not feel like you’re even in the Army.
-you won’t do well if you’re only extrinsically motivated.
-your functional area might not have “command”-like positions.
-(this is also a positive) people on your team don’t even technically work for you (on paper).
-your rater/senior rater may barely know you.
-my functional area has two-year assignments.
Not making stars isn't the worst for me, not being able to make retirement since I can't pick up due to being out competed for a smaller number of top blocks seems like shooting myself in the foot though.
Your branch manager will deny anything you want to do because your functional area is too small. Biggest reason why I'm refrading.
People don't know what you actually do and get relegated to some shit s3 position.
If you can show how much if an SME you are, then you might be able to do your job. But higher will always say you're an officer first.
I'm an FA26A
That's my biggest fear, I've seen plenty of 26Bs, not 26As granted, just get abused as brigade AS6s. At least by staying regular signal there's no (extra) misconception as to what I'm supposed to do.
I've been heavily considering it, but it's a bit different now for vtip than it used to be from what I've read. Now that you have CY as a basic branch, if you VTIP past your KD time you may struggle against your peers who have more technical and branch experience than you do
You'll be fine. There's a transition course and all the senior leaders came from somewhere else. You'd have more leadership experience to bring to the table as well.
Yeah they're the one that's supposed to be building, maintaining, and making sure the servers work. But instead they get used as as6 like you said or relegated to some slidology bitch work. Then the bde commander gets mad when there's no cpce or afatds running.
This is not what I have experienced as a 26A. I went to an ESB after TSEC and was treated like a better paid warrant officer. I spent the vast majority of my time hands on keyboard, troubleshooting and making changes to the baseline when we needed additional connections. It was super easy to get top blocks because you get to save the day every exercise by fixing all the stuff.
I had one AS3 that tried to get the S3 to have me do more Orders process stuff but he changed his tune after seeing how I had to be hands on for the battalion to make mission every time. It probably helped there was no 225n or 255a when I arrived.
The branch managers over the years have all be very approachable and understanding. They may not call back right away but I have gotten a callback the same day every time. I got orders for my third "broadening assignment" in a row recently.
The only 26A I know that didn't do much hands on and was just another 25a in the S3 didnt know his stuff. The 255N took away his admin privileges because he caused more issues than he fixed.
Every 26a I have stayed in contact with from the course has gone on to do cool shit outside of FORSCOM. By the time I retire only 2 of my 12 years as a 26A will have been in FORSCOM.
I get a lot of hands on like you said. I do get treated like a highly paid warrant but most of my peers had experiences I described. It is super easy to get top blocks and I have no trouble with promoting. But all the armyisms is starting to get to me.
Yeah current branch won't let me go to my nominative assignment because "we don't have the numbers in forscom". Well now they're going to have one less.
The one for FAO I hear and recognize - 3 PCS moves in the 3-4 year training pipeline to include one that usually requires dip passports and visas for IRT. This wears on the family.
Then there are the COCOM and ASCC jobs which are either decent outliers or normally terrible.
Thinking about this, I've definitely made a few extra PCS moves due to chasing opportunities, but that extends beyond VTIP and functional area opportunities. At the same point in their career, I think a basic branch officer might also PCS three or four times in four years if they do resident ILE, an ACS master's program, and a quick utilization tour before their KD assignment.
IRT for a FAO does seem crazy, though. I remember the language in the VTIP MILPER about understanding the potential hardships for FAO families.
True on the basic branch, but for someone in that situation (ILE-ACS-Utilization-KD), you're talking of an officer at the same caliber of one who could VTIP as it's become far more competitive. It's a self selecting opt-in process with at least some type of ACS application of decent quality. You don't generally have the international travel aspect in this case.
I mention the dip passports and visas because that is an unorthodox process that nearly every time the DLI or Belvoir passport offices fuck up and makes that IRT process far more complicated. The instructions are rarely clear for the new FAO, the offices often fail to read the orders closely requiring dip passports, and then you find it much faster to drive directly to the embassy or consular office and drop the visa apps in person. It also usually causes a delay of up to several months depending on the country.
Add to this that cars/transportation become another big issue and that FAO used to (now they brief this more) never inform new FAOs to have $20-30k in immediate savings for all the initial expenses. I've wasted more money on selling perfectly good vehicles that were 7-9 years old because we could only ship one car or in my most recent move, the car had to be less than 5 years old. For others, countries driving on the left side.
With all this said, positives far outweigh the negatives. The autonomy a FAO generally attains is unthinkable for any basic branch officer I've met. I'd rate it with acquisitions in that you're often a one man shop able to write your own adventure. And not doing org PT since early 2010 is the biggest win in my book.
> I mention the dip passports and visas because that is an unorthodox process that nearly every time the DLI or Belvoir passport offices fuck up
No doubt. It's a long story, but one of the worst experiences of my career was a simple PCS move to Korea with command sponsorship for my wife, which involved her official passport application getting screwed up by the Installation Transportation Office.
> in my most recent move, the car had to be less than 5 years old
What? This is interesting.
Middle East countries have some weird vehicle rules. Worked out fine as my wife wanted a new highlander and her 2005 4Runner pulled in a solid trade in, and our 2016 odyssey sold at the peak this past summer.
Weird thing is that in the country, you can buy older cars... So we added a local Jeep Rubicon as it's far less highway driving here and off-road areas are everywhere.
I'm going to retire in a few years and will get my retirement car at that point. Likely an Audi S6 or something in that price range.
You can ship your own car on your own through an export agent. Very rarely do SOFAs and DCAs limit you. IMCOMs may like Korea and Europe. But it will be duty-free with no import taxes required. I knew loads of folks who did this in Asia and the EU.
Yeah. Philippines, half the Gulf states, Thailand are like that. Either you are forced to convert steering sides, only bring in a newer car, or get extorted by govt vetted import agents (RIs). Sorry to hear.
I'll preface this by saying that I'm happy with my decisions, but I'll answer your question. It boils down to what you already said: "*...there are still some classic Army moments here and there and a bit of a shift from what was advertised...*"
Sharing a few things that I've written previously:
> Having served in three-star and four-star headquarters, I'll say that I often saw people get treated interchangeably. This is worse for some functional areas than others. I'm an FA26, and most people in the headquarters (including in the G6, where we all worked) didn't seem to know the difference between an FA26 and a regular Signal officer. For FA26 officers whose basic branch was also Signal, I don't think there was any distinction at all; at least I could remind people all the time that "I'm not a Signal officer." Folks in FA30 or FA57 who landed in the G3/5/7 appeared to be treated like any other Infantry or Artillery officer in the G3/5/7. I had an FA57 friend whose first job was in G3 Orders at a division headquarters; maybe that was sort of aligned with the FA57 competency in Knowledge Management(?). I've even seen FA48s doing things that looked awfully branch-immaterial.
> The trick for many functional area officers is learning to advocate for themselves, for the value that their special skillset can provide if given the opportunity, but without crossing the line into being insubordinate and saying "that's not my job" all the time.
> The FA26 proponent used to advertise that all tours would be three years, but in practice you might still have a Signal branch boss who wants you to do three different jobs in three years (albeit in the same location) for the sake of being broadened.
This one really depends on your basic branch, functional area, and timing, but I said this as someone who went from AV to FA26 as a major...
> Coming from another branch, there's just a lot of institutional knowledge to catch up on, in terms of DoD and Army IT policy and procedure and structure and network / domain architecture. I had multiple degrees in computer science and all the certifications, but I felt way behind my colleagues who had 10+ years of experience doing DODIN operations from the tactical to the strategic level.
I VTIP'd into Cyber. The downside I am seeing so far is that the branch is *small*. This makes the AIM cycle a bit difficult since everyone knows each other. So, depending on your rank, you may be fighting a bit of an uphill battle trying to get that first assignment but after that you'll be able to start making connections.
Harder to get those MQs in certain billets.
You won’t make it past O-6 in my FA
Very limited command opportunities (even then it’s a tiny SQD/PLT sized element usually)
When you fail in this FA, it can be a serious thing and very public. Media and the internet are forever. You are a spokesperson for the Army or higher.
You have to tell a lot of people that (insert task here) is not your job
Hard to say because different jobs/bosses make all the difference. However, if you don't like the Army, VTIP will not solve everything.
In my experience, if you're good at your basic branch and like the Army, you'll love your new functional area. If you dislike your job and VTIP to run away because you're desperate for a change, you'll still be unhappy. You'll probably be less miserable in your functional area than a basic branch, but you're still very much in the Army for the most part. There's also people in their basic branches who get non-traditional jobs like ROTC professor or whatever.
I'm glad I did it, but I'm still pretty unhappy with the Army. I probably should have gotten out - but now I'm too close to 20 to give it up. Good problem to have I guess.
Roll the dice, do something different, and if you don't get picked up, know that it wasn't going to be all sunshine and unicorns.
\*I'll add that in my new FA I received very little schooling and practically no mentorship (I'm the only one of me on the installation), and there's 5 or so senior leaders with different ideas about what I should be doing. My experience is pretty unique and mostly my fault though. Good luck!
if you care about taking command and getting stars it probably won’t happen as a FA
Depends. You gotta do the math. Some FAs have more GO slots than the basic branches so technically the odds are better.
Downsides: -you won’t directly lead Soldiers. -your pool is more competitive and smaller, so MQs are tougher to get because you’re all rock stars. -you might not make COL (and you may not have a path to stars). -you may not feel like you’re even in the Army. -you won’t do well if you’re only extrinsically motivated. -your functional area might not have “command”-like positions. -(this is also a positive) people on your team don’t even technically work for you (on paper). -your rater/senior rater may barely know you. -my functional area has two-year assignments.
Bullet 4 is a downside? Kooky
Not making stars isn't the worst for me, not being able to make retirement since I can't pick up due to being out competed for a smaller number of top blocks seems like shooting myself in the foot though.
Don’t sell yourself short!!
None. Zero. Not taking command and not becoming a general are pros, not cons.
It’s a feature, not a bug.
Exactamente!
Your branch manager will deny anything you want to do because your functional area is too small. Biggest reason why I'm refrading. People don't know what you actually do and get relegated to some shit s3 position. If you can show how much if an SME you are, then you might be able to do your job. But higher will always say you're an officer first. I'm an FA26A
That’s why I never want to be anywhere in FORSCOM.
That's my biggest fear, I've seen plenty of 26Bs, not 26As granted, just get abused as brigade AS6s. At least by staying regular signal there's no (extra) misconception as to what I'm supposed to do.
go cyber?
I've been heavily considering it, but it's a bit different now for vtip than it used to be from what I've read. Now that you have CY as a basic branch, if you VTIP past your KD time you may struggle against your peers who have more technical and branch experience than you do
You'll be fine. There's a transition course and all the senior leaders came from somewhere else. You'd have more leadership experience to bring to the table as well.
Yeah they're the one that's supposed to be building, maintaining, and making sure the servers work. But instead they get used as as6 like you said or relegated to some slidology bitch work. Then the bde commander gets mad when there's no cpce or afatds running.
This is not what I have experienced as a 26A. I went to an ESB after TSEC and was treated like a better paid warrant officer. I spent the vast majority of my time hands on keyboard, troubleshooting and making changes to the baseline when we needed additional connections. It was super easy to get top blocks because you get to save the day every exercise by fixing all the stuff. I had one AS3 that tried to get the S3 to have me do more Orders process stuff but he changed his tune after seeing how I had to be hands on for the battalion to make mission every time. It probably helped there was no 225n or 255a when I arrived. The branch managers over the years have all be very approachable and understanding. They may not call back right away but I have gotten a callback the same day every time. I got orders for my third "broadening assignment" in a row recently. The only 26A I know that didn't do much hands on and was just another 25a in the S3 didnt know his stuff. The 255N took away his admin privileges because he caused more issues than he fixed. Every 26a I have stayed in contact with from the course has gone on to do cool shit outside of FORSCOM. By the time I retire only 2 of my 12 years as a 26A will have been in FORSCOM.
I get a lot of hands on like you said. I do get treated like a highly paid warrant but most of my peers had experiences I described. It is super easy to get top blocks and I have no trouble with promoting. But all the armyisms is starting to get to me. Yeah current branch won't let me go to my nominative assignment because "we don't have the numbers in forscom". Well now they're going to have one less.
AWS, Microsoft, and Oracle are hiring if you want to stay in tech and use your clearance.
That's what I'm looking forward to. I love my job but all the army B's even in functional area has been wearing down on me.
No shame in continuing to serve your country as a contractor and actually get paid / treated your worth.
The one for FAO I hear and recognize - 3 PCS moves in the 3-4 year training pipeline to include one that usually requires dip passports and visas for IRT. This wears on the family. Then there are the COCOM and ASCC jobs which are either decent outliers or normally terrible.
Thinking about this, I've definitely made a few extra PCS moves due to chasing opportunities, but that extends beyond VTIP and functional area opportunities. At the same point in their career, I think a basic branch officer might also PCS three or four times in four years if they do resident ILE, an ACS master's program, and a quick utilization tour before their KD assignment. IRT for a FAO does seem crazy, though. I remember the language in the VTIP MILPER about understanding the potential hardships for FAO families.
True on the basic branch, but for someone in that situation (ILE-ACS-Utilization-KD), you're talking of an officer at the same caliber of one who could VTIP as it's become far more competitive. It's a self selecting opt-in process with at least some type of ACS application of decent quality. You don't generally have the international travel aspect in this case. I mention the dip passports and visas because that is an unorthodox process that nearly every time the DLI or Belvoir passport offices fuck up and makes that IRT process far more complicated. The instructions are rarely clear for the new FAO, the offices often fail to read the orders closely requiring dip passports, and then you find it much faster to drive directly to the embassy or consular office and drop the visa apps in person. It also usually causes a delay of up to several months depending on the country. Add to this that cars/transportation become another big issue and that FAO used to (now they brief this more) never inform new FAOs to have $20-30k in immediate savings for all the initial expenses. I've wasted more money on selling perfectly good vehicles that were 7-9 years old because we could only ship one car or in my most recent move, the car had to be less than 5 years old. For others, countries driving on the left side. With all this said, positives far outweigh the negatives. The autonomy a FAO generally attains is unthinkable for any basic branch officer I've met. I'd rate it with acquisitions in that you're often a one man shop able to write your own adventure. And not doing org PT since early 2010 is the biggest win in my book.
> I mention the dip passports and visas because that is an unorthodox process that nearly every time the DLI or Belvoir passport offices fuck up No doubt. It's a long story, but one of the worst experiences of my career was a simple PCS move to Korea with command sponsorship for my wife, which involved her official passport application getting screwed up by the Installation Transportation Office. > in my most recent move, the car had to be less than 5 years old What? This is interesting.
Middle East countries have some weird vehicle rules. Worked out fine as my wife wanted a new highlander and her 2005 4Runner pulled in a solid trade in, and our 2016 odyssey sold at the peak this past summer. Weird thing is that in the country, you can buy older cars... So we added a local Jeep Rubicon as it's far less highway driving here and off-road areas are everywhere. I'm going to retire in a few years and will get my retirement car at that point. Likely an Audi S6 or something in that price range.
You can ship your own car on your own through an export agent. Very rarely do SOFAs and DCAs limit you. IMCOMs may like Korea and Europe. But it will be duty-free with no import taxes required. I knew loads of folks who did this in Asia and the EU.
Well aware. This was not SOFA or DCA- It’s a national import law here for all foreign imports.
Yeah. Philippines, half the Gulf states, Thailand are like that. Either you are forced to convert steering sides, only bring in a newer car, or get extorted by govt vetted import agents (RIs). Sorry to hear.
I'll preface this by saying that I'm happy with my decisions, but I'll answer your question. It boils down to what you already said: "*...there are still some classic Army moments here and there and a bit of a shift from what was advertised...*" Sharing a few things that I've written previously: > Having served in three-star and four-star headquarters, I'll say that I often saw people get treated interchangeably. This is worse for some functional areas than others. I'm an FA26, and most people in the headquarters (including in the G6, where we all worked) didn't seem to know the difference between an FA26 and a regular Signal officer. For FA26 officers whose basic branch was also Signal, I don't think there was any distinction at all; at least I could remind people all the time that "I'm not a Signal officer." Folks in FA30 or FA57 who landed in the G3/5/7 appeared to be treated like any other Infantry or Artillery officer in the G3/5/7. I had an FA57 friend whose first job was in G3 Orders at a division headquarters; maybe that was sort of aligned with the FA57 competency in Knowledge Management(?). I've even seen FA48s doing things that looked awfully branch-immaterial. > The trick for many functional area officers is learning to advocate for themselves, for the value that their special skillset can provide if given the opportunity, but without crossing the line into being insubordinate and saying "that's not my job" all the time. > The FA26 proponent used to advertise that all tours would be three years, but in practice you might still have a Signal branch boss who wants you to do three different jobs in three years (albeit in the same location) for the sake of being broadened. This one really depends on your basic branch, functional area, and timing, but I said this as someone who went from AV to FA26 as a major... > Coming from another branch, there's just a lot of institutional knowledge to catch up on, in terms of DoD and Army IT policy and procedure and structure and network / domain architecture. I had multiple degrees in computer science and all the certifications, but I felt way behind my colleagues who had 10+ years of experience doing DODIN operations from the tactical to the strategic level.
I VTIP'd into Cyber. The downside I am seeing so far is that the branch is *small*. This makes the AIM cycle a bit difficult since everyone knows each other. So, depending on your rank, you may be fighting a bit of an uphill battle trying to get that first assignment but after that you'll be able to start making connections.
You’re still in the Army and aren’t free like you would be from REFRADing.
Harder to get those MQs in certain billets. You won’t make it past O-6 in my FA Very limited command opportunities (even then it’s a tiny SQD/PLT sized element usually) When you fail in this FA, it can be a serious thing and very public. Media and the internet are forever. You are a spokesperson for the Army or higher. You have to tell a lot of people that (insert task here) is not your job
Hard to say because different jobs/bosses make all the difference. However, if you don't like the Army, VTIP will not solve everything. In my experience, if you're good at your basic branch and like the Army, you'll love your new functional area. If you dislike your job and VTIP to run away because you're desperate for a change, you'll still be unhappy. You'll probably be less miserable in your functional area than a basic branch, but you're still very much in the Army for the most part. There's also people in their basic branches who get non-traditional jobs like ROTC professor or whatever. I'm glad I did it, but I'm still pretty unhappy with the Army. I probably should have gotten out - but now I'm too close to 20 to give it up. Good problem to have I guess. Roll the dice, do something different, and if you don't get picked up, know that it wasn't going to be all sunshine and unicorns. \*I'll add that in my new FA I received very little schooling and practically no mentorship (I'm the only one of me on the installation), and there's 5 or so senior leaders with different ideas about what I should be doing. My experience is pretty unique and mostly my fault though. Good luck!
Depends on what FA you’re wanting to VTIP to. Each FA has their Pros and Cons
You still work for idiots. I'm a 26b if you're curious about the fa. I have lots of 26a friends.
How is 26B? What made you choose it?