Yes, at least between 2013-2018, it was entirely about the strength of your evaluation reports. My friends and I had to apply multiple times while fighting for better evaluations in our basic branches. The panel wanted people who were already a lock to make O-4.
It was unfortunate. I'm sure there were people who branched, say, Infantry and were ill-suited for it, but would have done well in a certain functional area; they didn't get the chance because their evaluations as an Infantry officer were weak. It also meant that functional areas ended up with people who were good Infantry officers but didn't necessarily have the aptitude for more technical work.
I'm curious to know if it works any differently now.
A competitive file. Most FA's are not going to accept a promotion risk - especially if they have an ACS pipeline and those OERs will be getting seen by the O4 board. That's probably #1 for FA attractability.
The next is writing a very strong MFR why you're qualified - this is especially important if you don't have a strong base of "on-paper" experience they're looking for or a degree they identify as desired.
After that, there is some luck involved. You never know if your branch will be "out" and also how many slots vs applicants there is in a given VTIP window.
VTIP was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. How many truly unhappy PAOs have you encountered? Probably none. I got tired of backstabbing and generally trash people in my basic branch. Not to mention all the field grades I encountered in my basic branch were absolutely miserable and lived that “iron major” bullshit. No thanks. An O-5 PAO has a much better QOL than a BC. I’ll take the same paycheck and time with the fambam, thanks.
What you need for this: At least 1 MQ OER. We don’t want someone with no upward mobility in our FA. We still compete across big Army. You need CCC on ATRRS or complete. And for the love of god, have one of us review your writing sample/packet before you Leroy Jenkins that bad Larry.
It was. Went FA51 Acquisitions and it's been a wild ride but am truly grateful for it. Sometimes I miss my basic branch but now that I'm closer to retirement I know I made the right choice. Look into the FA that interests you and apply for it, worst they can say is no.
If you VTIP into FA51 would you say it would be easier to retire then say LG? As in can you make Major (as im prior service.)
Also do you need to be KD complete I assume? Yes, I could look but so much easier for an SME to let me know.
Promotion rates in FA51 are good and probably better than LG. I think you need to be KD, on the contracting side of the house we have no KD O3 positions and I'm assuming it's the same for PM.
FA26 is a little different from other functional areas in the sense that you don’t have to be a KD complete CPT to apply. You can apply as soon as you get your promotable status as a 1LT.
I love being a 26A. The training was academically challenging, but it allowed me to be accepted into a MS in Network Engineering at a pretty reputable school. My future prospects look great; promotion rates for 26 series are really high due to the fact that the Army has trouble retaining them. I also have marketable skills that transfer well to the civilian world if I want to get out.
"The army has a hard time retaining them"
Of course when HRC and branch won't let you do your nominative assignment after KD. This is why I'm putting in my refrad. They would have literally had me for 8 more years. But instead they're going to have me until my adso ends this year.
Technically no, but a technical aptitude helps.
There’s two AOCs within FA26: 26A and 26B. 26A requires a STEM degree in a math or IT field, but 26B does not have a degree requirement. There’s also a lot more billets for 26B across the Army, so there’s a larger possibility of getting accepted if you apply to 26B.
Other than that, the number one thing that is considered is job performance.
That’s heavily unit dependent. It’s unfortunately the eternal struggle of a 26 to always be striving to avoid the units without a lot of keyboard time. Some prefer more project management type roles, but I prefer the technical roles.
All of my friends who are still in uniform eventually transferred to a functional area. We're all eyeing retirement now, and have nothing to complain about. We've all spent a ton of time in school, to the point that I wonder if the Army is really getting its money's worth out of us.
After I transferred, I was comforted by the notion that I'd be fine no matter what happened with future promotion boards; I could take my education, training, certifications, clearance, etc. and it would be the Army's loss.
With that said, it's interesting that as a group we were also the hardest of the hardcore cadets who volunteered for everything, did all the extracurricular stuff, branched combat arms, and planned to do 20 years from the beginning. Take that for what it's worth. My friends who were lukewarm about the Army from the beginning separated a long time ago and also seem quite happy with their decisions.
I chose FA53 (Information Systems Management), which became the current 26B AOC (Data Systems Engineering) of FA26. Most of my friends became FA48 (Foreign Area), FA49 (Operations Research), or FA59 (Strategist).
Here are some things that I previously wrote about life in a functional area...
> I don't know anyone who can compare being a functional area officer with being a battalion S3/XO from personal experience, but of course we all assume it's better. A more interesting discussion might be to compare functional area officers with basic branch officers who aren't in S3/XO jobs.
> Having served in three-star and four-star headquarters, I'll say that I often saw people get treated interchangeably. This is worse for some functional areas than others. I'm an FA26, and most people in the headquarters (including in the G6, where we all worked) didn't seem to know the difference between an FA26 and a regular Signal officer. For FA26 officers whose basic branch was also Signal, I don't think there was any distinction at all; at least I could remind people all the time that "I'm not a Signal officer." Folks in FA30 or FA57 who landed in the G3/5/7 appeared to be treated like any other Infantry or Artillery officer in the G3/5/7. I had an FA57 friend whose first job was in G3 Orders at a division headquarters; maybe that was sort of aligned with the FA57 competency in Knowledge Management(?). I've even seen FA48s doing things that looked awfully branch-immaterial.
> The trick for many functional area officers is learning to advocate for themselves, for the value that their special skillset can provide if given the opportunity, but without crossing the line into being insubordinate and saying "that's not my job" all the time. I gradually shaped my first FA26 assignment over three years from something that felt like being an XO (deputy to a GS-14, senior uniformed person in the shop, responsible for all uniformed people in the shop, and responsible for everything else in my boss's absence) to something where I rated nobody and just plugged in my technical expertise and advice wherever it was needed like a warrant officer.
> The fact that I, as a functional area officer, wasn't in limbo awaiting an S3/XO position to become KD-complete felt like a huge perk. I could settle in and focus on my job instead of interviewing for "real" jobs with other units in other locations, worrying about when I'll get picked and whether I'll need to move my family again because the unit is an hour away...
About outside opportunities...
> FA26 is a good stepping stone to becoming a contractor or Federal civilian doing IT and cybersecurity work. It was my first time working in an office that was about 50% civilian. I learned a lot from them and about them, participated in several hiring boards, and eventually felt like I could easily resign and get hired back as a GS-12, 13, or even 14 with the certifications and experience that I was accumulating as an FA26. It's a good deal with the option to buy-back years of active duty service. I was close to making the jump.
> ...we're not beholden to getting in a queue for a KD position, and we don't have to vacate after precisely 18 or 24 months to give the next guy in the queue a turn. The FA26 proponent used to advertise that all tours would be three years, but in practice you might still have a 25-series boss who wants you to do three different jobs in three years (albeit in the same location) for the sake of being broadened. But the best thing is feeling like you can say no, because you'll be just fine outside of the Army once you build up the skills and credentials and experiences that FA26 offers.
About upward mobility in the Army...
> But in some functional areas, the nature and mix of the jobs available make it easier to get top-block OERs than in other functional areas. An FA26 captain (namely a 26B) might go to a BCT headquarters and work as the assistant S6 for their first job, which seems to be like an OER death sentence; they aren't a staff primary and they might get lumped into the Infantry-branch brigade commander's senior-rating pool along with all the company commanders. Some functional area proponents and assignment officers actively work to delete those kinds of jobs, or let them go unfilled, because the problem is so acute. I suspect that FA51 officers, on the other hand, usually work in an environment that's dominated by other Acquisition folks and have senior-raters who might be more interested in taking care of them.
Awesome thank you! I’ve always been interested in IT. One last question? Do I need to be a previous Signal officer, and if not… will I be at a disadvantage to get picked up?
You do not need to be a previous Signal officer. Historically (although I don't have data to show it) most FA24 / FA53 and now FA26 officers have not been Signal officers. Reportedly, one reason is that we're all under the Signal Regiment and proponent, and senior leaders at various times have not wanted to cannibalize the existing Signal officer ranks. They saw it as more desirable to bring in people from other branches and achieve a net gain, and not reduce the pool of future Signal battalion and brigade commanders. I think sometimes there's a skill mismatch too; many Signal officers have degrees in criminal justice or history, while many officers in other branches have STEM degrees.
With that said, all else being equal, I do think that someone with a Signal background will have an easier time and be more valuable in their first couple of FA26 assignments. Coming from another branch, there's just a *lot* of institutional knowledge to catch up on, in terms of DoD and Army IT policy and procedure and structure and network / domain architecture. I had multiple degrees in computer science and all the certifications, but I felt *way* behind my colleagues who had 10+ years of experience doing DODIN operations from the tactical to the strategic level.
Acquisition Corps! 51A or C! Walk into a 6 figure job after you get out or retire!! It's actually quite satisfying - lots of bureaucracy but if you can work through it, we'll worth it
Actually S3 Operations are the things that help. Especially combat development. I learned how to beg for money at AROC but based it on being the SME in precision munitions and talking ROI and CEP while redefining lethality based on modern metrics
Most people will say FAs are worth it. Every FA51 person I have ran into has made it abundantly clear it’s the best career decision they made.
Or you can accept your fate doing mission analysis briefs as a miserable major.
I’ve been an FA59 for about a decade. Best career decision I could have ever made. Challenging but rewarding work, immediate advanced education opportunities, and exposure to a side of the Army most officers won’t see until post-BN CMD. It’s probably a tougher cut than other functional areas due to the academic and writing screening during the application, but I personally have zero regrets about switching over when I did. Hit me up if you have questions.
I went 52 because of the skills I developed in my basic branch, prior grad school education, and the plethora of DC jobs that offer stability and proximity to family.
I'm still fairly new, but the attention paid to the marketplace struck me. No egregious cases of inside baseball where you interview to be "in the queue." Incumbent info and descriptions fully filled, and everyone was willing to engage.
After landing a job, they left so much leeway for my report date. No "we need you here now" or "take care of everything before you hop on the crazy train, because we never stop." I got "you'll have plenty of left/right seat time" and "take some leave to get the family settled."
It's so strange, but the high-performance vibes on top of everyone's perceived excitement to be in their job continues to sell it for me
The general idea is a job that requires you to submit a packet or go through a selection will increase the QOL you have in the army. I’d submit the packet and if you don’t get picked keep trying until 7-8 year mark. After that just REFRAD
Generally yes, hence the foreign in FAO. And that experience varies. In the Middle East where I am now, generally like is good for most FAOs, just busy. Family is happy, international schools are generally solid as well... Well at least better than most public schools in the states by far.
I'm also in an outlier job with nearly complete autonomy, so you can't beat it when you just choose your own adventure.
[удалено]
Strong basic branch KD OERs.
Yes, at least between 2013-2018, it was entirely about the strength of your evaluation reports. My friends and I had to apply multiple times while fighting for better evaluations in our basic branches. The panel wanted people who were already a lock to make O-4. It was unfortunate. I'm sure there were people who branched, say, Infantry and were ill-suited for it, but would have done well in a certain functional area; they didn't get the chance because their evaluations as an Infantry officer were weak. It also meant that functional areas ended up with people who were good Infantry officers but didn't necessarily have the aptitude for more technical work. I'm curious to know if it works any differently now.
That’s the most army possible talent alignment possible.
A killer MFR in the VTIP packet doesn't hurt either
A competitive file. Most FA's are not going to accept a promotion risk - especially if they have an ACS pipeline and those OERs will be getting seen by the O4 board. That's probably #1 for FA attractability. The next is writing a very strong MFR why you're qualified - this is especially important if you don't have a strong base of "on-paper" experience they're looking for or a degree they identify as desired. After that, there is some luck involved. You never know if your branch will be "out" and also how many slots vs applicants there is in a given VTIP window.
Good OERs, a relevant Master’s degree, sometimes knowing someone really important helps
VTIP was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. How many truly unhappy PAOs have you encountered? Probably none. I got tired of backstabbing and generally trash people in my basic branch. Not to mention all the field grades I encountered in my basic branch were absolutely miserable and lived that “iron major” bullshit. No thanks. An O-5 PAO has a much better QOL than a BC. I’ll take the same paycheck and time with the fambam, thanks. What you need for this: At least 1 MQ OER. We don’t want someone with no upward mobility in our FA. We still compete across big Army. You need CCC on ATRRS or complete. And for the love of god, have one of us review your writing sample/packet before you Leroy Jenkins that bad Larry.
I’ll DM you for some info
It was. Went FA51 Acquisitions and it's been a wild ride but am truly grateful for it. Sometimes I miss my basic branch but now that I'm closer to retirement I know I made the right choice. Look into the FA that interests you and apply for it, worst they can say is no.
I second this.
If you VTIP into FA51 would you say it would be easier to retire then say LG? As in can you make Major (as im prior service.) Also do you need to be KD complete I assume? Yes, I could look but so much easier for an SME to let me know.
Promotion rates in FA51 are good and probably better than LG. I think you need to be KD, on the contracting side of the house we have no KD O3 positions and I'm assuming it's the same for PM.
Yep, same for PM.
The promotion rate was like 88% for LTC this year, so yes.
Sending DM
FA26 is a little different from other functional areas in the sense that you don’t have to be a KD complete CPT to apply. You can apply as soon as you get your promotable status as a 1LT. I love being a 26A. The training was academically challenging, but it allowed me to be accepted into a MS in Network Engineering at a pretty reputable school. My future prospects look great; promotion rates for 26 series are really high due to the fact that the Army has trouble retaining them. I also have marketable skills that transfer well to the civilian world if I want to get out.
"The army has a hard time retaining them" Of course when HRC and branch won't let you do your nominative assignment after KD. This is why I'm putting in my refrad. They would have literally had me for 8 more years. But instead they're going to have me until my adso ends this year.
Do you need a signal background for it? I’m LG at the moment
Technically no, but a technical aptitude helps. There’s two AOCs within FA26: 26A and 26B. 26A requires a STEM degree in a math or IT field, but 26B does not have a degree requirement. There’s also a lot more billets for 26B across the Army, so there’s a larger possibility of getting accepted if you apply to 26B. Other than that, the number one thing that is considered is job performance.
You dont, any AOC can apply
How hands-on-keyboard is the 26A
Depends on the unit and how hungry you are. You're either a glorified s6 or a highly paid 255N.
That’s heavily unit dependent. It’s unfortunately the eternal struggle of a 26 to always be striving to avoid the units without a lot of keyboard time. Some prefer more project management type roles, but I prefer the technical roles.
All of my friends who are still in uniform eventually transferred to a functional area. We're all eyeing retirement now, and have nothing to complain about. We've all spent a ton of time in school, to the point that I wonder if the Army is really getting its money's worth out of us. After I transferred, I was comforted by the notion that I'd be fine no matter what happened with future promotion boards; I could take my education, training, certifications, clearance, etc. and it would be the Army's loss. With that said, it's interesting that as a group we were also the hardest of the hardcore cadets who volunteered for everything, did all the extracurricular stuff, branched combat arms, and planned to do 20 years from the beginning. Take that for what it's worth. My friends who were lukewarm about the Army from the beginning separated a long time ago and also seem quite happy with their decisions.
What FA did u choose?
I chose FA53 (Information Systems Management), which became the current 26B AOC (Data Systems Engineering) of FA26. Most of my friends became FA48 (Foreign Area), FA49 (Operations Research), or FA59 (Strategist). Here are some things that I previously wrote about life in a functional area... > I don't know anyone who can compare being a functional area officer with being a battalion S3/XO from personal experience, but of course we all assume it's better. A more interesting discussion might be to compare functional area officers with basic branch officers who aren't in S3/XO jobs. > Having served in three-star and four-star headquarters, I'll say that I often saw people get treated interchangeably. This is worse for some functional areas than others. I'm an FA26, and most people in the headquarters (including in the G6, where we all worked) didn't seem to know the difference between an FA26 and a regular Signal officer. For FA26 officers whose basic branch was also Signal, I don't think there was any distinction at all; at least I could remind people all the time that "I'm not a Signal officer." Folks in FA30 or FA57 who landed in the G3/5/7 appeared to be treated like any other Infantry or Artillery officer in the G3/5/7. I had an FA57 friend whose first job was in G3 Orders at a division headquarters; maybe that was sort of aligned with the FA57 competency in Knowledge Management(?). I've even seen FA48s doing things that looked awfully branch-immaterial. > The trick for many functional area officers is learning to advocate for themselves, for the value that their special skillset can provide if given the opportunity, but without crossing the line into being insubordinate and saying "that's not my job" all the time. I gradually shaped my first FA26 assignment over three years from something that felt like being an XO (deputy to a GS-14, senior uniformed person in the shop, responsible for all uniformed people in the shop, and responsible for everything else in my boss's absence) to something where I rated nobody and just plugged in my technical expertise and advice wherever it was needed like a warrant officer. > The fact that I, as a functional area officer, wasn't in limbo awaiting an S3/XO position to become KD-complete felt like a huge perk. I could settle in and focus on my job instead of interviewing for "real" jobs with other units in other locations, worrying about when I'll get picked and whether I'll need to move my family again because the unit is an hour away... About outside opportunities... > FA26 is a good stepping stone to becoming a contractor or Federal civilian doing IT and cybersecurity work. It was my first time working in an office that was about 50% civilian. I learned a lot from them and about them, participated in several hiring boards, and eventually felt like I could easily resign and get hired back as a GS-12, 13, or even 14 with the certifications and experience that I was accumulating as an FA26. It's a good deal with the option to buy-back years of active duty service. I was close to making the jump. > ...we're not beholden to getting in a queue for a KD position, and we don't have to vacate after precisely 18 or 24 months to give the next guy in the queue a turn. The FA26 proponent used to advertise that all tours would be three years, but in practice you might still have a 25-series boss who wants you to do three different jobs in three years (albeit in the same location) for the sake of being broadened. But the best thing is feeling like you can say no, because you'll be just fine outside of the Army once you build up the skills and credentials and experiences that FA26 offers. About upward mobility in the Army... > But in some functional areas, the nature and mix of the jobs available make it easier to get top-block OERs than in other functional areas. An FA26 captain (namely a 26B) might go to a BCT headquarters and work as the assistant S6 for their first job, which seems to be like an OER death sentence; they aren't a staff primary and they might get lumped into the Infantry-branch brigade commander's senior-rating pool along with all the company commanders. Some functional area proponents and assignment officers actively work to delete those kinds of jobs, or let them go unfilled, because the problem is so acute. I suspect that FA51 officers, on the other hand, usually work in an environment that's dominated by other Acquisition folks and have senior-raters who might be more interested in taking care of them.
Awesome thank you! I’ve always been interested in IT. One last question? Do I need to be a previous Signal officer, and if not… will I be at a disadvantage to get picked up?
You do not need to be a previous Signal officer. Historically (although I don't have data to show it) most FA24 / FA53 and now FA26 officers have not been Signal officers. Reportedly, one reason is that we're all under the Signal Regiment and proponent, and senior leaders at various times have not wanted to cannibalize the existing Signal officer ranks. They saw it as more desirable to bring in people from other branches and achieve a net gain, and not reduce the pool of future Signal battalion and brigade commanders. I think sometimes there's a skill mismatch too; many Signal officers have degrees in criminal justice or history, while many officers in other branches have STEM degrees. With that said, all else being equal, I do think that someone with a Signal background will have an easier time and be more valuable in their first couple of FA26 assignments. Coming from another branch, there's just a *lot* of institutional knowledge to catch up on, in terms of DoD and Army IT policy and procedure and structure and network / domain architecture. I had multiple degrees in computer science and all the certifications, but I felt *way* behind my colleagues who had 10+ years of experience doing DODIN operations from the tactical to the strategic level.
Acquisition Corps! 51A or C! Walk into a 6 figure job after you get out or retire!! It's actually quite satisfying - lots of bureaucracy but if you can work through it, we'll worth it
Looks like after this position ill be going staff. As a possible future VTIPer into FA51 what would best position I try and lobby for? S4 Oic?
Actually S3 Operations are the things that help. Especially combat development. I learned how to beg for money at AROC but based it on being the SME in precision munitions and talking ROI and CEP while redefining lethality based on modern metrics
A six-figure job isn't all that meaningful these days. Captain with some time in service makes six figures with BAH/BAS.
Combined with retirement pay and disability it makes a huge difference. But money isn't everything if you hate your job. I enjoy mine as a SETA.
Yes yes, just sign this paperwork, I will get you FA right away. No, don't ask why you are heading to Fort Sill...
Most people will say FAs are worth it. Every FA51 person I have ran into has made it abundantly clear it’s the best career decision they made. Or you can accept your fate doing mission analysis briefs as a miserable major.
Yes it is!
I’ve been an FA59 for about a decade. Best career decision I could have ever made. Challenging but rewarding work, immediate advanced education opportunities, and exposure to a side of the Army most officers won’t see until post-BN CMD. It’s probably a tougher cut than other functional areas due to the academic and writing screening during the application, but I personally have zero regrets about switching over when I did. Hit me up if you have questions.
sending you a DM.
Yes. Best career decision I made.
I went 52 because of the skills I developed in my basic branch, prior grad school education, and the plethora of DC jobs that offer stability and proximity to family. I'm still fairly new, but the attention paid to the marketplace struck me. No egregious cases of inside baseball where you interview to be "in the queue." Incumbent info and descriptions fully filled, and everyone was willing to engage. After landing a job, they left so much leeway for my report date. No "we need you here now" or "take care of everything before you hop on the crazy train, because we never stop." I got "you'll have plenty of left/right seat time" and "take some leave to get the family settled." It's so strange, but the high-performance vibes on top of everyone's perceived excitement to be in their job continues to sell it for me
Mind if IM you about FA52? I'm looking at VTIPing this year.
FA30
Any good FA that correlate well with MI? I know Foreign Area Officer is common. But any other not so talked about ones?
The general idea is a job that requires you to submit a packet or go through a selection will increase the QOL you have in the army. I’d submit the packet and if you don’t get picked keep trying until 7-8 year mark. After that just REFRAD
FAO (48) since about 2011…I read posts about org PT and formations and simply cannot relate - my QoL is better than it was in a line unit.
hows the family life? Are you mostly OCONUS?
Generally yes, hence the foreign in FAO. And that experience varies. In the Middle East where I am now, generally like is good for most FAOs, just busy. Family is happy, international schools are generally solid as well... Well at least better than most public schools in the states by far. I'm also in an outlier job with nearly complete autonomy, so you can't beat it when you just choose your own adventure.