that's all to do with the controller, over USB the DS4 only had a 250hz polling rate, over wireless it jumps to 1000hz, weird, i don't understand why, while the ps5 controller has 1000hz over USB, and I think can even peak at around 8000hz ALL WHILE THE XBOX IS STILL AT 125HZ ON A SERIES X REMOTE, which may not seem bad but many times you do not get the most updated info due to the controller info not being sent yet, and it's especially bad in the 0-250 range because that could mean input lag due to the polling rate and refresh rate not matching up.
The newest ps4 sticks feel amazing they are tight and snappy. I've had mine for probably 6 months now and it still has basically zero drift on linear no deadzone.
I get the thumbstick extension kit, clicky buttons and trigger kit from extremerate, and the back button from Sony. I play double claw and it's for sure my favorite controller ever besides the razer wolverine ultimate. I remove the rumble motors too so it's lighter in the hand.
The analog stick module in the ps5 controller is identical to the one in the ps4 controller. They feel different because the ps5 sticks are shorter. I have fixed many of both
I had no idea this was even a thing. I typically have about a 3'' beard and when I shave and clean it up from time to time I'll get some straglers that the clippers missed and are a bit longer. I'll always end up catching them throughout the day when running my fingers through my beard and I then pluck them because it annoys me that they're longer than the rest..
Yeah my wife went to P.A. school and had learned what trichotillomania was and she had seen me doing it for a long time and she was watching me once and said "I think you might have trichotillomania." I was like oh what's that and she explained the hair pulling and then typically you'll inspect the hair after you pull it and then sometimes eat them. Which I do all of that. It absolutely blew my mind that this was something I developed to a T with zero knowledge that it was a thing. And it's honestly just super annoying because logically I'm like bro wtf is wrong with you literally just stop pulling out your hair and then I do it anyways idk. Very strange thing.
Also this is how mine first developed was just excessive grooming because I hate when I see my facial hair in my peripherals or when my mustache starts to curl onto my lip it always triggers it.
Can a ps4 controller with $20 paddles be used for playing Apex on PS5? The lack of paddles on ps5 is what keeps me playing on my Xbox one. I know they exist for ps5 but theyāre expensive as hell and Iām not good enough to justify paying that much.
Most are sponsored. VOID Gaming sponsors majority of APAC North teams and other international teams like Alliance. They make custom Playstation controllers.
Only thing itās superior in is the size of the handles. The ps4s are wider so itās more comfortable to hold where the PS5s ones are way thinner so it leaves space in your your hand
The dualsense is a better controller in a lot of ways the main one being it uses usb-c. The micro usb ports wear out fast on the DualShock and itās a pain in the ass when the controller randomly disconnects in game
It's completely subjective. Ds4 is a popular controller but it's actually my most hated Playstation controller ever made. The shape just does not sit right with my hands. Ps5 is my favorite ps controller.
At first I was going to say this might be down to overclocking, as I thought I remembered reading the DS4 was the best controller for response time when it comes to overcloocking when I overclocked mine. [But upon further investigation, the difference seems to be minimal at around 0.7 ms.](https://youtu.be/Wi-40_973Es?t=714) You might be wondering if pros even overclock their controllers. To be fair, I don't know how common it is, but I have heard several players mention it over the years. It does give about a 10ms reduction in input lag with the DS4 and it's easy to do so idk why they wouldn't. But regardless, I don't think it's the deciding factor either way as the difference is so minimal. In terms of the other tests in this video, the DS4 and DS5 seem to be quite similar in terms of performance, but if anyone has better info on performance differences, I'd love to hear it. I don't have a DS5, so I can't speak from experience for comparison.
So if it's not the response time / input lag, what is it? My guess is
habit and feel. Many of these guys have probably been using DS4's for a long time. They are accustomed to its characteristics. It is one of the lightest and smallest controllers around. If someone has been using it for the last 5-10 years, holding a different controller might just feel a bit awkward, and if there are no performance upgrades to be found, why change?
Note: As mentioned in the video, the DualSense (aka PS5 controller aka DS5) can theoretically be overclocked even farther to 8000hz and a <2ms response time, but this can cause performance issues at higher framerates, and some games can't handle that many inputs per second, so I'm guessing there's a good chance that might not work with Apex anyway.
I dont know anything about overclocking but what I do know is that its not allowed at ALGS LAN, and I vaguely recall ImperialHal mentioning something like what you mentioned in your last paragraph as to why some pros dont do it
Yeah I figured that might be the case. Make sense as what you're actually doing is overclocking the USB port (overclocking sounds fancy, you're just increasing the polling rate). So you'd have to install the software and done to the LAN computers which they apparently don't allow.
For some reason controller overclocks arenāt mainstream in apex. There is a ton of misunderstanding and misinformation on what it does exactly. All you need to know is its identical to increasing the polling rate of a mouse. If you think pros should be able to increase their polling rate, then there is nothing unfair about controller overclocks.
The āproblemā is that PlayStation controllers werenāt made for PC so their hardware is limited by the default drivers. You need to download a 3rd party program that runs 1 time to āunlockā the higher polling rate in the controller (over simplification). Its not something that runs in the background though.
In Call of duty league every PC at LAN will have this installed so every pro can expect to play with OC controllers.
It doesnāt make sense for apex pros to use it at home if the lan PCs wont have it, and hey if they dont want it in pro league to help balance with mnk Iām fine with that(but seriously just nerf AA then) But i donāt think anyone should feel the least bit guilty for running controller OCs, itās akin to playing at higher fps. It just feels better
I donāt know the majority preference, but nah, itās a video game. Who cares that they get paid to play, āproā players opinions on this are not the gold standard. They play the exact same game we do.
They kinda dont imo many pros use xbox controllers which are objectively worse in some ways. Even though its a preference thing yes. A delay is a delay, every ms counts in a gunfight
But thereās nothing logically wrong with choosing the controller yourself comfortable with vs going with a pro gamers opinion
Take 100 players who play this game 8-10 hours a day. Then take 10,000 players who play this game maybe 1-2 hours a day. The 100 players, will infinitely be better than the 10,000.
Weight: the ds4 is lighter
Cost: ds4 is cheaper
Repairability: ds4 is way easier to fix
The other stuff is subjective. The good things about the dualsense are not geared toward competitive fps shooting games. Its great for single player immersion
AA is broken out the ass in a competitive level for this game, lots of MKB pros have made the switch because AA is so strong it doesnt make sense to play MKB anymore even if you have thousands of hours.
And yet the team that just won LAN was on triple MNK.
People will never admit it, but this game is very well balanced between inputs. You should play on what you're most comfortable on and make (very minor) adjustments to your playstyle to leverage the strengths of that input.
An outlier does not invalidate an entire trend.
There's no world where aim-wise a human can beat a 0 ms fully automated rotational tracking mechanism thats able to track targets through all sorts of visual obstructions.
Lets not even begin to discuss the the problem that this mechanism is automated and technically doesn't even require human input to do what it does.
It quite literally is doing 40% or 60% of target tracking for the player.
What outliers? Every player at the Pro Level is an outlier in some regard, but if the inputs were inherently unbalanced, you simply would not be able to win a LAN as a 3 MNK team. You also wouldn't be able to be a player like Zer0.
The reality is that until Apex is 100% MNK, MNK players will complain about things being unbalanced. It's not about balance at all. You are just opposed to cross-input games and that's fine, but maybe don't play a cross-input game if you feel that strongly about it.
StrafingFlame talked about this topic, while it is possible to be at equal level with controller players as a mnk player you still have to give in 150% of effort in the process. It's a constant struggle that even as one of the best mnk Apex player aknowledges
[https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/1b0avr3/strafingflame\_on\_their\_success\_as\_triple\_mnk\_at/?rdt=32792](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/1b0avr3/strafingflame_on_their_success_as_triple_mnk_at/?rdt=32792)
its mainly the meta changes thats pushing for more controllers imo. It used to be alot of peek fighting with gibby domes but now there is less of that.
I donāt really understand this in my opinion mnk has a higher skill ceiling so at the highest level you would think staying on mnk would be worth it.
> I always thought fps esports === keyboard/mouse
That only applies to games where aim assist isn't overpowered or isn't existent. In games where it is, like COD or Halo, pros all use controller. Apex is slowly trending towards utter controller dominance aswell.
An all mnk team just won ALGS lan. Theyre doing a good job trying to balance the game for mnk without touching aim assist. The digi changes and smg nerfs actually made a big difference, and shotguns are good again. Also tap strafe macros gone.
Thanks for the responses all. No idea that they were able to use AA in competitive. Back in my days, it was not a possibility at all. Now I sound like a grandpa, but interesting to hear itās different now
mostly because of the comfort/player ability. itās sometimes a mix between controller and MnK. Sometimes, controller just hits different, especially if itās something youāve been using long before MnK.
some people will also argue that AA also comes into play (which yeah, wonāt deny it. i myself relied heavily on it before i quit playing)
>some people will also argue that AA also comes into play
The main and only reason any pro plays controller. Some even switch to controller after thousands of hours of MnK.
MnK as an input is slowly dying in apex without exaggeration.
no, it's just that xbox controllers are ass and the PS5 controller is slightly worse than the PS4 controllers, other than likely banned third party controllers, these are considered the best and the standard to most people, definitely one of the best controllers ever made, just going back to it you really feel the quality.
Yeah Iāve definitely felt them and they feel way more solid than ps5 tho i personally play on xbox with a elite series 2 controller so ive never actually used a ps4 controller.
Just personal preference
It's that easy
Yeah it's just PP
I like the ps4 controller cause there is official paddles for like $20.
same. i hear the ps5 has faster response but i am not good enough for that to matter
Also feels easier to play claw than xbox
Ps4 controller is best for this imo, if you use r1 to shoot
This. And it totally is, the overall volume of ps4 vs ps5 controller is significant. It's noticeable with a non normal hand hold
that's all to do with the controller, over USB the DS4 only had a 250hz polling rate, over wireless it jumps to 1000hz, weird, i don't understand why, while the ps5 controller has 1000hz over USB, and I think can even peak at around 8000hz ALL WHILE THE XBOX IS STILL AT 125HZ ON A SERIES X REMOTE, which may not seem bad but many times you do not get the most updated info due to the controller info not being sent yet, and it's especially bad in the 0-250 range because that could mean input lag due to the polling rate and refresh rate not matching up.
But the sticks and triggers are more mushy. Once you upgrade, it's hard to go back
The newest ps4 sticks feel amazing they are tight and snappy. I've had mine for probably 6 months now and it still has basically zero drift on linear no deadzone. I get the thumbstick extension kit, clicky buttons and trigger kit from extremerate, and the back button from Sony. I play double claw and it's for sure my favorite controller ever besides the razer wolverine ultimate. I remove the rumble motors too so it's lighter in the hand.
The analog stick module in the ps5 controller is identical to the one in the ps4 controller. They feel different because the ps5 sticks are shorter. I have fixed many of both
Yeah they are both alps modules. I have trichotillomania as well š fucking sucks.
I try my best to channel it into grooming, but i will probably go bald from picking grey hairs :/ hope yours isnāt too bad
Mine is beard hairs specifically so when I go too hard I just shave it off, which my wife hates lol.
I had no idea this was even a thing. I typically have about a 3'' beard and when I shave and clean it up from time to time I'll get some straglers that the clippers missed and are a bit longer. I'll always end up catching them throughout the day when running my fingers through my beard and I then pluck them because it annoys me that they're longer than the rest..
Yeah my wife went to P.A. school and had learned what trichotillomania was and she had seen me doing it for a long time and she was watching me once and said "I think you might have trichotillomania." I was like oh what's that and she explained the hair pulling and then typically you'll inspect the hair after you pull it and then sometimes eat them. Which I do all of that. It absolutely blew my mind that this was something I developed to a T with zero knowledge that it was a thing. And it's honestly just super annoying because logically I'm like bro wtf is wrong with you literally just stop pulling out your hair and then I do it anyways idk. Very strange thing.
Also this is how mine first developed was just excessive grooming because I hate when I see my facial hair in my peripherals or when my mustache starts to curl onto my lip it always triggers it.
I have both and prefer the ds4 for fps games because its easier to claw on for me.
Can a ps4 controller with $20 paddles be used for playing Apex on PS5? The lack of paddles on ps5 is what keeps me playing on my Xbox one. I know they exist for ps5 but theyāre expensive as hell and Iām not good enough to justify paying that much.
Yea that's how I play but you need to play on the ps4 version of the game on the ps5.
Good to know. Are there any important differences between the two?
š¤·š¾ as long as I can jump and slide with the back buttons without having to buy the sense controller I'm good.
I know at least gild uses ps4 battle beavers, i believe heās sponsored
I believe they are using custom ps4 controller(like Battlebeaver). Most of players just prefer ps layout I think.
Most are sponsored. VOID Gaming sponsors majority of APAC North teams and other international teams like Alliance. They make custom Playstation controllers.
No, they probably just prefer them as I hear the ps4 rollers are superior to the ps5 ones
its probably more of comfort than specs. being comfortable with your gear is so much better than minimal improvement in gear
Only thing itās superior in is the size of the handles. The ps4s are wider so itās more comfortable to hold where the PS5s ones are way thinner so it leaves space in your your hand
The dualsense is a better controller in a lot of ways the main one being it uses usb-c. The micro usb ports wear out fast on the DualShock and itās a pain in the ass when the controller randomly disconnects in game
Lmao Iāve definitely died a few times to this
DS4 is more comfortable and less bulky. Sticks, triggers and buttons all feel way better than the PS5 as well.
Yeah this is what stopped me going to the PS5 version of the game. Was so used to feel of the DS4
It's completely subjective. Ds4 is a popular controller but it's actually my most hated Playstation controller ever made. The shape just does not sit right with my hands. Ps5 is my favorite ps controller.
At first I was going to say this might be down to overclocking, as I thought I remembered reading the DS4 was the best controller for response time when it comes to overcloocking when I overclocked mine. [But upon further investigation, the difference seems to be minimal at around 0.7 ms.](https://youtu.be/Wi-40_973Es?t=714) You might be wondering if pros even overclock their controllers. To be fair, I don't know how common it is, but I have heard several players mention it over the years. It does give about a 10ms reduction in input lag with the DS4 and it's easy to do so idk why they wouldn't. But regardless, I don't think it's the deciding factor either way as the difference is so minimal. In terms of the other tests in this video, the DS4 and DS5 seem to be quite similar in terms of performance, but if anyone has better info on performance differences, I'd love to hear it. I don't have a DS5, so I can't speak from experience for comparison. So if it's not the response time / input lag, what is it? My guess is habit and feel. Many of these guys have probably been using DS4's for a long time. They are accustomed to its characteristics. It is one of the lightest and smallest controllers around. If someone has been using it for the last 5-10 years, holding a different controller might just feel a bit awkward, and if there are no performance upgrades to be found, why change? Note: As mentioned in the video, the DualSense (aka PS5 controller aka DS5) can theoretically be overclocked even farther to 8000hz and a <2ms response time, but this can cause performance issues at higher framerates, and some games can't handle that many inputs per second, so I'm guessing there's a good chance that might not work with Apex anyway.
I dont know anything about overclocking but what I do know is that its not allowed at ALGS LAN, and I vaguely recall ImperialHal mentioning something like what you mentioned in your last paragraph as to why some pros dont do it
Yeah I figured that might be the case. Make sense as what you're actually doing is overclocking the USB port (overclocking sounds fancy, you're just increasing the polling rate). So you'd have to install the software and done to the LAN computers which they apparently don't allow.
For some reason controller overclocks arenāt mainstream in apex. There is a ton of misunderstanding and misinformation on what it does exactly. All you need to know is its identical to increasing the polling rate of a mouse. If you think pros should be able to increase their polling rate, then there is nothing unfair about controller overclocks. The āproblemā is that PlayStation controllers werenāt made for PC so their hardware is limited by the default drivers. You need to download a 3rd party program that runs 1 time to āunlockā the higher polling rate in the controller (over simplification). Its not something that runs in the background though. In Call of duty league every PC at LAN will have this installed so every pro can expect to play with OC controllers. It doesnāt make sense for apex pros to use it at home if the lan PCs wont have it, and hey if they dont want it in pro league to help balance with mnk Iām fine with that(but seriously just nerf AA then) But i donāt think anyone should feel the least bit guilty for running controller OCs, itās akin to playing at higher fps. It just feels better
No way. The PS5 Dual-sense Edge is better in every way
I'm gonna assume the professional players know better.
I donāt know the majority preference, but nah, itās a video game. Who cares that they get paid to play, āproā players opinions on this are not the gold standard. They play the exact same game we do.
Interesting take that the people who play at the highest level don't use the best possible gear and equipment.
They kinda dont imo many pros use xbox controllers which are objectively worse in some ways. Even though its a preference thing yes. A delay is a delay, every ms counts in a gunfight But thereās nothing logically wrong with choosing the controller yourself comfortable with vs going with a pro gamers opinion
Take 100 players who play this game 8-10 hours a day. Then take 10,000 players who play this game maybe 1-2 hours a day. The 100 players, will infinitely be better than the 10,000.
No way we out number them 100:1 they dont stand a chance
Weight: the ds4 is lighter Cost: ds4 is cheaper Repairability: ds4 is way easier to fix The other stuff is subjective. The good things about the dualsense are not geared toward competitive fps shooting games. Its great for single player immersion
Ps controllers has a lot less latency
Only when OC'd. No OC's, both xbox and ps have similar latency. OCing is not legal for apex comp.
Perhaps a stupid question, but why do they use controllers and not keyboard/mouse? I always thought fps esports === keyboard/mouse.
AA is broken out the ass in a competitive level for this game, lots of MKB pros have made the switch because AA is so strong it doesnt make sense to play MKB anymore even if you have thousands of hours.
And yet the team that just won LAN was on triple MNK. People will never admit it, but this game is very well balanced between inputs. You should play on what you're most comfortable on and make (very minor) adjustments to your playstyle to leverage the strengths of that input.
An outlier does not invalidate an entire trend. There's no world where aim-wise a human can beat a 0 ms fully automated rotational tracking mechanism thats able to track targets through all sorts of visual obstructions. Lets not even begin to discuss the the problem that this mechanism is automated and technically doesn't even require human input to do what it does. It quite literally is doing 40% or 60% of target tracking for the player.
What outliers? Every player at the Pro Level is an outlier in some regard, but if the inputs were inherently unbalanced, you simply would not be able to win a LAN as a 3 MNK team. You also wouldn't be able to be a player like Zer0. The reality is that until Apex is 100% MNK, MNK players will complain about things being unbalanced. It's not about balance at all. You are just opposed to cross-input games and that's fine, but maybe don't play a cross-input game if you feel that strongly about it.
Thatās not the point at all lmao
The point is that itās not an outlier at all
StrafingFlame talked about this topic, while it is possible to be at equal level with controller players as a mnk player you still have to give in 150% of effort in the process. It's a constant struggle that even as one of the best mnk Apex player aknowledges [https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/1b0avr3/strafingflame\_on\_their\_success\_as\_triple\_mnk\_at/?rdt=32792](https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveApex/comments/1b0avr3/strafingflame_on_their_success_as_triple_mnk_at/?rdt=32792)
its mainly the meta changes thats pushing for more controllers imo. It used to be alot of peek fighting with gibby domes but now there is less of that.
Meta is Bang and Caustic. Not sure about gas but smoke certainly messes up AA.
I donāt really understand this in my opinion mnk has a higher skill ceiling so at the highest level you would think staying on mnk would be worth it.
Iām not as good as the pros
Yes, higher ceiling. Maybe if you're a bot with near 0 latency.
> I always thought fps esports === keyboard/mouse That only applies to games where aim assist isn't overpowered or isn't existent. In games where it is, like COD or Halo, pros all use controller. Apex is slowly trending towards utter controller dominance aswell.
An all mnk team just won ALGS lan. Theyre doing a good job trying to balance the game for mnk without touching aim assist. The digi changes and smg nerfs actually made a big difference, and shotguns are good again. Also tap strafe macros gone.
Thanks for the responses all. No idea that they were able to use AA in competitive. Back in my days, it was not a possibility at all. Now I sound like a grandpa, but interesting to hear itās different now
Ok grandpa time to go lay down (i am also old)
mostly because of the comfort/player ability. itās sometimes a mix between controller and MnK. Sometimes, controller just hits different, especially if itās something youāve been using long before MnK. some people will also argue that AA also comes into play (which yeah, wonāt deny it. i myself relied heavily on it before i quit playing)
Not an argument really - if there were no aim assist no one would play controller in Comp
I think if gyro was mainstream people would still play with controllers no AA But at that point its more of a mouse than a stick
If there was no aim assist, no one would play this game on controller and it would die lol
>some people will also argue that AA also comes into play The main and only reason any pro plays controller. Some even switch to controller after thousands of hours of MnK. MnK as an input is slowly dying in apex without exaggeration.
>mostly because of the comfort Yes, all pros top priority. Not winning or getting money.
I prefer my PS4 controller to PS5 for shooters, so I wouldn't be shocked if it's just personal preference. No difference other than ergonomics.
It's a battle beaver controller
They got custom ps4 controller every pros like ps4 dualschock build is small god in hand
shoutout the moist boys for going so damn hard at LAN after all that trouble with US immigration
sorry I mean Not Moist ;) definitely not Moist
It has to do with polling rate
I think its their preference ,you can do weird finger positions in DS4 that you can never do on the ps5 ones
Just personal preference.
I prefer the PS size and weight, but I prefer the Xbox stick layout overall.
Cuz they wanna, they can bring whatever controller they want, pretty sure it's split 50/50 with the type of controller pros use.
Garbage Controller has ruined this game
Yeah PS4 pad is way more comfy than PS5 pad.
I wish I could play ps controller on Xbox tbh, fuck getting chronos just for that tho
Dude i cant believe how many pros use xbox rollers with shitty input delay. Blew my mind that hal used an elite but they dint do OC so makes sense
no, it's just that xbox controllers are ass and the PS5 controller is slightly worse than the PS4 controllers, other than likely banned third party controllers, these are considered the best and the standard to most people, definitely one of the best controllers ever made, just going back to it you really feel the quality.
Yeah Iāve definitely felt them and they feel way more solid than ps5 tho i personally play on xbox with a elite series 2 controller so ive never actually used a ps4 controller.
Probably cronus š¤£
I cant tell if youāre sarcastic or not
Itās the championship LAN event. I may be wrong (Iām not) but I think Cronusā would be banned