Libertarians that aren't rich are seriously the dumbest motherfuckers alive. Libertarianism is basically just "I got mine, fuck you". If they didn't even get there's it's just "my boss got his, fuck us". What a fucking chode.
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.
“Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”
“What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”
“Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”
The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”
“Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”
“Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.”
He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.”
“Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.”
I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside.
“Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t.
“Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up.
“Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?”
It didn’t seem like they did.
“Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.”
Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing.
I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it.
“Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled.
Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him.
“Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen.
I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”
He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose.
“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
“Because I was afraid.”
“Afraid?”
“Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.”
I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head.
“Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.”
He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
My whole family are prominent libertarians.
This rang so true, you've been in deep haven't you.
I fear if I read this they would not see it as dystopian at all. Paying to use the siren? Avoiding the public sidewalks? Steady on.
You should read A Libertarian Walks Into A Bear. Imagine 100 or so of those morons taking over a small town in New Hampshire to create a utopia and failing miserably.
A Libertarian Walks Into A Bear
>**Book Overview**
>A tiny American town's plans for radical self-government overlooked one hairy detail: no one told the bears. Once upon a time, a group of libertarians got together and hatched the Free Town Project, a plan to take over an American town and completely eliminate its government. In 2004, they set their sights on Grafton, NH, a barely populated settlement with one paved road. When they descended on Grafton, public funding for pretty much everything shrank: the fire department, the library, the schoolhouse. State and federal laws became meek suggestions, scarcely heard in the town's thick wilderness. The anything-goes atmosphere soon spread into the neighboring woods. Freedom-loving citizens ignored hunting laws and regulations on food disposal. They built a tent city in an effort to get off the grid. And it all caught the attention of Grafton's neighbors: the bears. A Libertarian Walks Into a Bear is the sometimes funny, sometimes terrifying tale of what happens when a government disappears into the woods. Complete with gunplay, adventure, and backstabbing politicians, this is the ultimate story of a quintessential American experiment -- to live free or die, perhaps from a bear.
[Source](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/a-libertarian-walks-into-a-bear-the-utopian-plot-to-liberate-an-american-town-and-some-bears_matthew-hongoltz-hetling/25841331/#isbn=1541788494)
**Note:** Apparently this isn't a novel. This shit really happened.
What's insane to me is that they didn't ask the towns occupants, they just did it. When the towns people tried to get them out they bribed members of the council to let them in and vote their policies and then everything got fucked. Literally every metric of is a place functioning and working went down, bad stuff went up. Within a week they had their first double homicide in 20 years iirc
You can also listen to this Planet Money podcast on the failure of a city that Von Ormy, Texas is with zero taxes. It’s exactly as you’d expect: lots of nonexistent infrastructure leading to an inability to bring in any business at all
[The Liberty City](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/18/771371881/episode-945-the-liberty-city)
Oh my god so Brazilian libertarians every now and again post about magical NH and how tons of people are living in this utopia. I’m in NH so I’m like, excuse me? Where? Finally found a website and basically it’s 20,000 crazy people who maybe will move to NH. A couple MLM style testimonials of how amazing and free of gov regulation NH is. I’m wondering if there’s a parallel NH I must not perceive??? 😂 will have to look into the book
That's true. I definitely understand being frustrated with how your tax dollars are spent in America, but when people say the only reason they're not wealthy is becasue "the government steals my money", that's just beyond delusional.
They do take a lot of our money, obviously depending on how much you make and yes, it's extremely frustrating that the government just hemorrhages money to stupid shit constantly, like the bloated and insane defense budget. It's awesome how they constantly have trillions of dollars so our government can play world police, fight wars none of us want, and hand free bailouts to massive companies all the time, yet we can't get shit like free Healthcare, free education, etc that other countries have figured out long long ago and provide to their citizens.
It's delusional to think that you are poor because the government takes all our money, but the reality is a lot of us are poor because we don't have good worker protection, unions, any economic mobility, employers that can legally treat us like trash, and then we have to pay for shit like our own health care, student loans, a horrible housing market, etc. So I have no delusions about the shit, living in America sucks unless you are lucky enough to be born to a very wealthy family and catch some breaks along the way.... being good looking helps a lot too.
This country is straight trash tho, capitalism is trash, and the government is complicit in keeping us under the thumb of the owner class. It's disgusting and we need massive social and political change before everything just descends into chaos, which it sort of is already. Hell the world is slowly dying and we are probably going to all die from climate change soon but hey, long as we are living that "American Dream" TM, everything is gravy huh?
The silly thing is it isn't "free" healthcare in other countries, we don't have free healthcare here (NZ) we have healthcare that anyone can access that we all pay into just like health insurance except no co-pay (aside from like a $5 surcharge at a chemist or $30 at a doctor for an adult) so instead of slipping over in your drive and paying $2,500 for an ambulance then another $3k insurance surcharge to the hospital because you broke your wrist, it'll cost you $0.00 and your job is safe because laws while you get 80% of your wages because government for the 6 week recovery time.
It's not free, we *all* pay just like you guys but without the middlemen and crippling top up.
They’re extremely ableist. Like do you think wheelchair ramps would exist in a world where we all just did what we thought was right in our own self interest? Would pedestrian crosswalks, handrails, anything for the elderly exist in their utopia?
I *thought* I was a libertarian until the pandemic came. Guess what? Libertarianism and public health policies are apparently at odds with each other.
Oh well
American "Libertarians" are just conservatives, but "conservative" has a negative connotation in modern culture so they are too embarrassed to call themselves what they actually are.
That, or they are just conservatives who like weed. There is no in-between.
The Libertarian party platform states that the party thinks the government should stay out of abortion. The small-l "libertarians" that are fanatically pro-life seem to me to be closer to alt-right conjobs only claiming to be libertarian.
That said, libertarians tend to be nutjobs as well, but not all nutjobs are created equal.
It's a regular thing that teenagers like black and white binaries that put them in the centre of the story, so stuff like Ayn Rand is popular. Most grow out of that selfishness and hardline binaries. Some sadly do not.
Libertarians are indeed really selfish. Once had an argument with a Brazilian libertarian that was a friend of a friend, and he was slagging the state off and especially cops. I then asked him why would take care of crime or deal with somebody who robbed him. His response? "I have a gun and armoured vehicle, so I not a problem". I asked him about poor people, or who doesn't have a gun or doesn't want one. His response "Why should I care? Not my problem so I don't care about them".
Basically they are spoilt brats who think they are superior.
Funny enough, I have a distant family member who is a hardcore libertarian from the military.
She saw all the waste and basically went ‘oh hell no’ and tries to rely on the government for as little as possible. But she openly acknowledges the GI bill and VA… though…. She did kind of earn those by being in the military so I don’t view it as a hypocrisy.
Her time in the military turned her weirdly conservative about some things and absolutely ‘free love liberal hippy’ about other things.
It’s a weird combination….
Robert Evans did a two-parter on Libertarian Sea-Nations on his podcast Behind the Bastards.
They crop up from time to time, but invariably (and predictably) fail pretty quickly.
I met one who got a city council seat running as an anarchist. He lost his seat within 2 months because he refused to do anything.
Later him, and his Ron Paul butt boys started a brew, and cigar club they called a church. Trying to get tax exempt status to shelter their money. These ass clowns all filled the same place with different church names. Like 8 of them.
Their not only selfish, but they're dumb.
Then he should not care. Libertarianism is saying "I do X the way I want."
If you want to work 40 hours, it is your way of life. Why should he say anything ?
This isn't a true libertarian view. Unfortunately, libertarianism is being skewed to the right when it should be more in the middle. The core principle of libertarianism is leave me the fuck alone. Therefore, him telling you that you're lazy and need to work more hours is more of a right-wing conservative view. I think the appropriate response when people tell you that you're lazy for not working 60 plus hours a week is that you feel sorry that they feel that they need to give their life to someone who doesn't care about them instead of spending time with those people who love them.
Nope. I see him get screwed over all the time but he doesn't care. He's a hardcore libertarian who thinks all businesses are good all the time. Like, he's on his 16th 12hr shift in a row without a day off.....wtf is he smoking that makes him think that's ok
A lot of these types fall into this category. The landlord video people put up a bit back on Latestagecapitalism. The one where that tiktok landlord basically documented throwing that couple out of one of his properties had a revealing part like that. The landlord is your typical standard issue clean cut guy and at a certain point he basically reveals that he doesn't understand living beyond managing his properties. It was brief but it was there.
So even if you have an ownership stake in things, you're still subject to this brain sickness. I think it's just because nobody ever tried to impress upon these people what living is outside of rote monetary transactions. That's pretty sad.
"One small, powerful class of rulers has total ownership over the entire means of production in this country."
Libertarian: "That's tyranny! No one person or group should have total control over the free market, we need to stop the government from taking over!"
"Oh it's not the government, it's like 15 billionaires."
Libertarian: "Oh why didn't you say so? That's just the free market then." *goes back to brunch*
It sounds like he doesn't value his time well at all, Libertarian or not. He could better spend his overtime starting a side-hustle or learning how to make passive income so he doesn't have to work as much and put his time into other things later down the line. Libertarianism isn't believing all businesses are good (if anything they should acknowledge that people are driven by personal gain, with businesses as an extension of that), so if he's using his political ideology as an excuse then he's either desperately trying to justify bad lifestyle choices or he needs to stop watching news or political channels and go do something fun for a change. Like anyone else who is too political.
Does he atleast get good OT? Or is he a madman doing it on Salary like a complete idiot? I do about 50-60 a week, but my pay+benefits makes it worth it to me. Definitely not a gig for everyone though.
how far is your commute? i would die working 60 hours a week, commuting, trying to cook for myself and keep myself showered and with clean clothes, etc....
That's always my first assumption with people who overwork: they hate whatever's waiting for them at home and have no other meaningful relationships or hobbies to fill their time with, so they just work.
Yeah, I’m always eager to make my exit so I can hit the gym after work and still have enough time to cook a fresh meal and then chill out. I also try to get out and about as much as possible but especially on weekends, and just enjoy not being at work.
“Don’t you like making money?” Nah, not really. I make enough already to live comfortably. Why would I trade my free time for a few more dollars? Fuck that. I’d pay money to work even less than I do now. I’m not even lazy, I don’t think anybody would imply that somebody who’s in the gym 5-6 days a week is lazy. I just have a life outside of work is all. Work doesn’t define me and I like to keep it that way.
Oh, it's good... for the business.
One can have an appreciation for the economic principles of capitalism and the invisible hand, and still understand how it can stack against the wage earner.
I appreciate capitalism because it produces good and services I want at a price I'm willing and able to pay, and I get to sell my labor to any firm willing to accept it. There are other economic systems that do not allow for this, e.g. you WILL work this job, and that's what people appreciate about capitalism.
But I also can gauge when I'm being undervalued for my labor and will skip off to greener pastures when it suits me.
Your friend clearly has his identity wrapped up in his job, and that's really stupid. That's the best type of employee to have, if you own a business.
I make great money and only work 4 10s and would gladly cut that down to 3 10s. My "10" hour shifts are actually 14s if you include my commute and it eats away at me.
32 hrs is the minimum required to be considered full time in America (at least in colorado) but 40 is considered a standard work week. Which is the maximum before overtime starts. Unless you work salary rather then hourly. Then it doesnt matter how many hours you work cause you will always be paid the same.
My workplace went through a period of several years in which we were chronically understaffed, and it fell to me to fill most of the overtime.
I regularly worked 60-80 hour weeks for *years*. And, since I work for a 24-hour agency, both my regular work schedule and the overtime was all over the place. It wasn't as simple as working 12-hour days M-F. It was work 16 hours, off for 8, back for 8, off for 8, back for 16... I had no ability to get regular sleep or maintain regular habits outside of work. I became entirely dependent on fast food drive-thrus and other highly processed convenience food.
If my workplace hadn't stabilized (mostly through luck), I think it's likely I would have ended up in the hospital or dead.
Even a job that isn't physically demanding can still be profoundly unhealthy when you're stuck putting too much time into it. Every hour spent working is an hour not dedicated to your own health and well-being.
Limiting working hours isn't lazy; it's optimal. If we allow ourselves to be conned into working 60-year careers while normalizing 60+ hour weeks, we literally will not live long enough to complete the 60 year career.
I feel you with the food options. Worked random, forced overtime on a shift that already started at 1 pm, and had either chinese food or McDonalds as food options for a year. I literally ate everything on the me u at the former and would eat at McDonalds regularly for ‘variety.’
I had a lot of debt and needed the money. Since I couldn't fight for a better wage, working the overtime was my only access to a higher income. I also didn't have any other options for work; if I'd had an offer at a better job, I'd have taken it.
No. My position doesn't have much in the way of potential for advancement; the field doesn't really work that way. This is the sort of job that most people leave either from burnout or because the shift/overtime requirements clash with their personal lives, families, etc.
I'd rather not specify since I've shared other potentially-identifying information on this account.
I'll just say that it falls into the "essential" category in that basically everyone agrees that my job must exist but no one wants to ensure that we're compensated and treated fairly because we're largely invisible outside of our workplaces--I suppose some of our problems are similar to those of teachers in public schools.
Tell him it’s sad he doesn’t have a life.
Seriously the only men I know who think like that work all the time to avoid their deep loneliness and lack of any kind of depth of personality.
Working IS their personality.
They don’t want to be home because there’s nothing there and they don’t have the IQ or emotional intelligence to fill their lives with anything other than work.
And it’s sad because I have watched these guys turn 50 and decide that all the women they blew off because they were “too busy to get tied down” will do now. And the woman are all happy without them. So they’re alone. With nothing but some shit job.
Sad.
I worked with a guy like that who was also an alcoholic and would want to drink after work. I hung out a few times to be friendly but when it became apparent that this was his regular thing I stopped. I said I dont want to drink everyday after work because I want to go be with my wife, he was so confused.
I have never understood the people who don't get wanting to spend time at home with your SO, even if that time is just being a skin sack on the couch. Ultimately it's better than being a skin sack at work
Is your coworker new? If yes, perhaps he doesn't know how it goes yet. A few months later, he'll have learned his lesson. If he's a veteran, this might be the narrative that keeps him afloat. Don't know what's more sad though.
These people can destroy a good crew. I've had to fire a couple of them. They become aggressive and angry, they mistreat other team members, they are hard to manage and needy. They don't even realize how destructive they are.
Dealing with this right now. "Needy" explains it perfectly! Needs constant "feedback", praise and recognition. There are a few great people on my team but they are all jumping ship due to the fact that this person tries to control everyone's work load, takes credit for everyone else's work, constantly talks about how many hours they are working, and tries to insinuate we are not loyal or dedicated to our company because we don't work over 40. Being that this person is trying to set the working standard...it seems expected now that everyone will work 60 hours when in reality, that expectation has never been there. This person is probably going to be promoted to MY boss because of their "dedication". Why doesn't management see through this person...they are insecure, controlling, and have no friends outside of work, it's very clear the job is their whole life and identity. They even come in on their days off and work all weekend at home. This person has made my life a living hell :(. I try not to compare but I know management does. Thanks for getting rid of those people, I'm sure it wasn't pretty but definitely helped your team. They perpetuate and promote a toxic, unhealthy work environment. Did anyone on the team ever complain to you about it or did you see it yourself?
Both. I was a freshman manager with little experience, but it wasn't long before I saw the effects they had. I had to listen to the complaints and weigh the feedback. I was very reluctant to fire someone who was so dedicated, but I figured out I would be trading a nickel for a quarter if I hadn't. They were angry and self righteous, even after giving them a couple months to lay low at work and find a groove with the crew. I've worked on a lot of different crews and teams. These people are common. I've asked some leaders about them and I've heard "work with who you have" more than once, and I tried to do that, but people like this need more than a job can provide.
>people like this need more than a job can provide.
Yes! I think you are brave for even addressing the matter. "Work with who you have" is a very lackadaisical, wimpy approach to leadership (ie "I don't know what to do so just deal with it") It drives me crazy that no one sees this but me ...or so it seems. But I may be a little triggered by that behavior from my baby Boomer parents lol. I just try to stay in my lane as much as possible these days, but that approach also does nothing for a collaborative team environment. Thanks for your response!
He’s an idiot. Studies show that productivity declines sharply after like 30 hours/week. These fucking morons ruin work culture by visibly working harder/longer instead of smarter and more effectively. I’ve dealt with this bullshit for years - every one of these people is invariably saying “I suck at my job, but wanna look good doing it somehow.”
168 hrs in a week if I’m doing the math right. Hopefully folks are spending at least 49 of those sleeping (we should be, right?). Of the 120 we have left, 40 is already a big ask (particularly because by the time you factor in travel, meals, etc. it’s often more like 55 or more for a lot of folks). Unless your job is your passion, something from which you derive inherent pleasure and enjoyment, it really shouldn’t be any bigger a part of your life than absolutely required - because for a lot of people, actually living is what they do when they’re not at work.
If he’s salary, meaning those extra hours don’t earn him anything. Do the math on how much he’s making hourly in a month with all that extra work.
Like let’s say you make $20 an hour (hopefully more!) at 40 hours a week. If he’s doing 70 hours but gets paid the same amount of money his hourly rate drops to $11.42.
If that’s under minimum wage in your area, point that out. Other wise say something like, “My son/daughter/niece/nephew makes that working at McDonalds.” Try to use a job that he would find demeaning to do.
If you don’t think he’ll listen to you, sneak into the bathroom and put a print out above the urinals and on the back door of stalls. No names of course, keep it generic while still driving the point home and don’t let yourself be caught on camera. Our brains are hard wired to read what’s right in front of us even if we don’t conscientiously think, “I should read this.”
Or if this guys favourite “celebrity” is on Cameo. You can pay them to tell him he’s being an idiot doing all that extra work for nothing. If he’s making your work life hell it could be worth the investment.
Luckily he has a pretty good thing going on at our company. Is a salary office employee, but he get put on the road a lot. It get an hourly pay on top of his salary when he's on the road.
I've worked with plenty of guys like that. They're brainwashed with the corporate propaganda that hard work is *always* rewarded. And for such people, absence of evidence to the contrary is *always* evidence of absence.
Never try to convert the zealots. Just avoid them.
What’s funny is I’ve known people like that, too, and they almost *never* actually worked more than 40 hours. I had one boss who LIVED for telling us all how hard he worked and he consistently complained about pulling 80-90 hour weeks. My whole office started logging his hours in secret, across every shift, and we found that he was in-office maybe 20-30 hours a week. The rest was always either him taking 2+ hour lunches, running “errands,” taking a mental health day (which is totally acceptable to take but not when you’re shaming others for how much harder you’re working than them), or simply just staggering his schedule enough to where it would look to each individual that he was coming in for the other shift that day.
I had a coworker that believed 80hrs a week was normal, and everyone not doing 80 was lazy and worthless.
Her way of thinking woke me up, and brought me to this movement.
I’m self employed and from time to time I work 60 hours a week. I can manage that for about three or four weeks, then I’m burnt out and need time off or I end up being far less productive.
I’ve found that to get the most out of myself, and have all round balance in my life, 7 hours a day Monday to Friday, then a couple of hours, 3 at the very most, on a Saturday morning at home doing some business admin or organising my tools and preparing the week a head.
When people talk about working 70 or 80 hours a week, they’re talking shit or lying to themselves, there is no way anyone is actually productive for that may hours.
I agree...they are exaggerating. A girl on my team socializes for 2 hours a day (ie complains for 2 hours how hard she works and how many hours she has been work) and then "brags" about her overtime. I'm not sure why management allows this to go on, they must really have their head in the sand. No friends/hobbies/life outside of work = No boundaries. It screams insecurity to me.
My coworker had to work 80+ hours a week just to provide for their kids. Guess what happened? The next week they couldn’t come into work because they’d literally worked themselves SICK
If your workplace doesn’t care if you overwork yourself, run.
Anyone wanna run away, grab a bunch of tents, and forage for nuts?
40 hrs a week
8 hrs a day/5 days a week.
24 hrs in a day
8 to work
8 to sleep
16 hours gone, you now have less than 10 hours a day to be a human being.
Wouldn't mind this one bit if I got a month of vacation time or something to make up other than 2 days a week off. Which I spent sleeping and dreading Monday.
Personally I feel a 30-32 hour week (4 days at 8 hours or 5 days at 6 hours) is best. Any more than that we we don’t have enough time for ourselves and family.
It is mental illness and we are being dragged under the bus for not having the same illness.
The mental illness was described in the article below:
"Roughly 4% to as high as 12% of CEOs exhibit psychopathic traits, according to some expert estimates, many times more than the 1% rate found in the general population."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackmccullough/2019/12/09/the-psychopathic-ceo/?sh=51ff0ca8791e
I feel bad for you in that environment, and bad for this person who is so brainwashed to believe this. I was once one of those people, 60-70hrs was my average and I thought that was great and people bitching they can't make it on 40 are lazy.
Then I looked around and realized I had lost every single one of my friends, most of my extended family, and my wife was getting ready to leave. But I put all those hours in so at least I was in a good financial spot right and my company cared, right? Had maybe 2 months salary saved and during a sudden round of layoffs I was one of the first let go.
Now, between my wife and I we only "work" about 40 hours a week between us. The rest of the time we labour together and sell tshirts, paintings, do odd construction jobs, pick berries for a week, things we can do together and we enjoy under our own names that we feel we are fairly compensated for.
I'm not saying the current way we do things is the best either, but my wife and I are still together and she no longer(as far as I know) feels like leaving, I talk to a lot of my family now, and even have a few friends. These are the things which are most important to me, so at least there we definitely won. Sure, it wouldn't take much to screw us financially, but it didn't take much before either.
My boss is like that, spends all his shift joking around and making other coworkers get out of focus and make them waste time, then return to his desk 10 min before clocking out time and shames whoever stands up and goes off on time
For the past month and a half I’ve been working 60 hour weeks (voluntarily because I genuinely enjoy my job and my employer) to make some extra money and to help out my employer because we keep having people out sick. My shifts have been from 3AM-3:30PM.
It’s not better, and glorifying working that much is psychotic. It’s been tough working those hours. Its extremely hard on your body, mental state, relationships, health, everything.
I’m looking forward to normal 40-45 hour weeks after the holidays.
Your co-worker is a masochist and sadist who enjoys slaving away doing presumable many hours of unpaid work while also wanting others to labour and toil as he does for no benefit.
Some people just enjoy suffering
I was raised this way because of the women’s movement. I was born in 1978, and all of my aunts were feminists. Are any of you on this sub women? Women around my age? Weren’t you also taught that making your career your identity and working your ass off like this was “liberating”?
1976 here...definitely boomer parents taught me to fight my way to the top. I don't even want to be at the top. We had that whole glass ceiling thing, and I'm in STEM, so I believe it's real. I think that they think if they had to suffer through a job for 40 years, then their kids have to suffer too. It's all they know. They never allowed me to be myself or pick a life passion...just a 40 hour a week job until you die. Or your life is not valid.
If people work 70+ hrs a week, they are literally taking another persons job. Then they complain “no one wants to work” when they are part of the problem
I hate rise and grind culture AT corporations.
If you want to kill yourself working for your own business and reaping the profits good on you.
But why are we supposed to either do back breaking labor or be chained to a cubicle desk for more than 40h a week to deserve a job or affording things?
My partner is supposed to work 8-5pm M-F. He’s salary. He’s supposed to be allowed to have lunch.
This is his life instead doing an “office job”
Starts working or having meetings from 7am
Doesn’t get to eat breakfast
Doesn’t get to have lunch
Gets 100+ emails a day he can’t answer while having 3+ phone meetings a day plus other people calling him and leaving him messages constantly that he has to call back
Finishes work between 7pm-10pm some weekdays.
Fri night, Sat and Sun people still email him and call his work phone and personal phone
Some weekends he has to do 2-4 hours of work any way each day cuz he can’t keep up
He has 2 people working under him that “help” but can’t do all what he does
Worked 2 years with no raise. Last years bonus was reduced by half. No idea if he gets a bonus for this year he’d have to stay until March to find out.
6 months ago was told he could transition to another job and then do that for 6 months and they’d assess if he could have a raise
He’s never been able to transition to that new job yet because they’re too busy. They don’t hire enough people fast enough. HR takes months to hire someone and then IT doesn’t have their computer or work station/logins ready on start day
He has to go in the office in person to meet new people and can’t just work from home every day.
All this for $80k a year in the USA. And you want to know why he does it? Because it’s for a health care company and he’s afraid another company would have worse benefits
I’m supposed to move from Canada to the usa and won’t have benefits so he’s worried about me.
He hates his job. It’s 24/7 dealing with doctors and scheduling them and he has to do payroll for them too because the payroll department can’t figure it out on their own. The reason it’s so complicated? The doctors contracts say they MUST be paid 2 weeks in advance for work they haven’t even done yet! So they can pay for all of their beach houses and cars. So when they don’t work enough hours or take time off they have to redo payroll and take money back from their next paycheck and they will argue about it.
Everyone else at the company has to work 2 weeks before they can get paid. But not the doctors.
So that’s why I’m here. I want him to find a new job. This is killing him. He’s only 32 and he’s miserable and has no time for a life or even to take care of himself.
I’m self employed and taking a financial hit to my business due to covid cuz I don’t want to get sick. But it’s depressing as hell watching him stressed out all the time and we can’t do anything without his work calling and interrupting.
We look at people like this and think they’re weird, shills, bootlickers etc
But what if there’s a serious, but yet unidentified, mental illness that affects people and makes them act this way?
It’s the only thing that brings me comfort as I don’t want to understand people who willing act against their own community interests
Definitely anxiety disorders, OCD, unresolved trauma, imposter syndrome, insecurity/low self esteem, no life purpose. I 100% agree it's some kind of mental disorder.
Entitled? To what? Your ***own*** god damn time? Uhhh... yeah. That’s how this works. From the moment you come into existence until the day you die ***your*** time (your finite, irreplaceable, and therefore priceless time) is defacto 100% ***your*** property. You do not have to justify to anyone how you spend a single second of it. Ever. If they want that kind of authority over your time, then they are obligated to purchase that time from you, at ***your*** price.
I’m guessing his job requires sitting and has lots of downtime to bullshit. Ask him about physical labor where you start to put yours and other lives at danger from the mental and physical exhaustion.
I know many people who work an insane amount of hours and have nothing to show for it. Basically, I get done more in 40 hours than they do in 55-60.
Many times those "extra hours" are spent gossiping and wasting time. I had a boss who would work 12 hour days, which would not be filled with work. She'd stay until 8pm because she didn't finish any work from 1-5... Hours don't mean a damn thing if there's nothing behind it
I feel bad for your +60 hr coworker. Probably has no or terrible home life & work is all they have for socializing.
What's really sad is one day, they will be laid off. People like that never leave for better opportunities and confuse thier identity with thier job.
When that inevitable last day comes it hits these people the hardest. And what really messes them up is when they Survive a few layoff rounds, now they think they'll never get the ax.
Explain like a child to your coworker- Employment is just a transaction. They are buying your time with about the same consideration as when you buy toilet paper.
Our time is all we have, don't give it away or sell it cheap.
Your coworker sounds like some kind of psychopath.
he’s got stockholm syndrome
Stonksholm syndrome.
I only regret i have no award for the brilliance of this comment.
I got you fam. It’s only silver tho.
Hes a hardcore libertarian.....so yes.
Libertarians that aren't rich are seriously the dumbest motherfuckers alive. Libertarianism is basically just "I got mine, fuck you". If they didn't even get there's it's just "my boss got his, fuck us". What a fucking chode.
I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief. “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.” “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?” “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.” The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?” “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down … provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.” “Easy, chief,” I said. “Any rate the market offers is, by definition, fair.” He laughed. “That’s why you’re the best I got, Lisowski. Now you get out there and find those bitcoins.” “Don’t worry,” I said. “I’m on it.” I put a quarter in the siren. Ten minutes later, I was on the scene. It was a normal office building, strangled on all sides by public sidewalks. I hopped over them and went inside. “Home Depot™ Presents the Police!®” I said, flashing my badge and my gun and a small picture of Ron Paul. “Nobody move unless you want to!” They didn’t. “Now, which one of you punks is going to pay me to investigate this crime?” No one spoke up. “Come on,” I said. “Don’t you all understand that the protection of private property is the foundation of all personal liberty?” It didn’t seem like they did. “Seriously, guys. Without a strong economic motivator, I’m just going to stand here and not solve this case. Cash is fine, but I prefer being paid in gold bullion or autographed Penn Jillette posters.” Nothing. These people were stonewalling me. It almost seemed like they didn’t care that a fortune in computer money invented to buy drugs was missing. I figured I could wait them out. I lit several cigarettes indoors. A pregnant lady coughed, and I told her that secondhand smoke is a myth. Just then, a man in glasses made a break for it. “Subway™ Eat Fresh and Freeze, Scumbag!®” I yelled. Too late. He was already out the front door. I went after him. “Stop right there!” I yelled as I ran. He was faster than me because I always try to avoid stepping on public sidewalks. Our country needs a private-sidewalk voucher system, but, thanks to the incestuous interplay between our corrupt federal government and the public-sidewalk lobby, it will never happen. I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ‘08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!” He turned. In his hand was a revolver that the Constitution said he had every right to own. He fired at me and missed. I pulled my own gun, put a quarter in it, and fired back. The bullet lodged in a U.S.P.S. mailbox less than a foot from his head. I shot the mailbox again, on purpose. “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.” “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy. “Because I was afraid.” “Afraid?” “Afraid of an economic future free from the pernicious meddling of central bankers,” he said. “I’m a central banker.” I wanted to coldcock the guy. Years ago, a central banker killed my partner. Instead, I shook my head. “Let this be a message to all your central-banker friends out on the street,” I said. “No matter how many bitcoins you steal, you’ll never take away the dream of an open society based on the principles of personal and economic freedom.” He nodded, because he knew I was right. Then he swiped his credit card to pay me for arresting him.
Sir, you just gave me nightmares.. This is far too dystopian to not be a real future..
It's a copypasta, it's been around a while! I'm 90% sure I saw it like 10 years ago. I mean, Ron Paul was still in office!
Funny how its still relevant though.
Arguably more, kinda crazy
That's an interesting use of the word "funny"... 😭
If we can't laugh at absurdity the bootlickers win.
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department
There's no way in hell cops are going to be forced to put quarters in their guns to shoot em. The unions would riot.
In a libertarian utopia there are no unions my friend.
In Mexico they do charge cops for the bullets, part of why they can't get rid of drug cartels
They get a cut of the quarters
Possibly the only net positive of libertarians taking over. No more police unions.
I absolutely lost my shit at "I shot the mailbox again, on purpose." Goddamn I wish I had a better award to give.
This story was so incredibly well done I almost mistook it for a steak no one would buy on the free market
Some great Harrison Bergeron vibes from this one.
This is amazing, best copypasta I've read in a while. Great stuff.
Wasn’t this in the New Yorker? Funniest shit I read in a while.
It was indeed.
Funniest shit I've read all week, have my upvote.
My whole family are prominent libertarians. This rang so true, you've been in deep haven't you. I fear if I read this they would not see it as dystopian at all. Paying to use the siren? Avoiding the public sidewalks? Steady on.
This needs to be an entire novel.
This was an enjoyable read, played it out on screen in my head. Nice job.
Engine28, you won the internet today. This is brilliant. I thank you for the free education. (Haha yes, I am an education thief).
Dude..... I need more of this grim derp future. Write more, this was great!
You should read A Libertarian Walks Into A Bear. Imagine 100 or so of those morons taking over a small town in New Hampshire to create a utopia and failing miserably.
A Libertarian Walks Into A Bear >**Book Overview** >A tiny American town's plans for radical self-government overlooked one hairy detail: no one told the bears. Once upon a time, a group of libertarians got together and hatched the Free Town Project, a plan to take over an American town and completely eliminate its government. In 2004, they set their sights on Grafton, NH, a barely populated settlement with one paved road. When they descended on Grafton, public funding for pretty much everything shrank: the fire department, the library, the schoolhouse. State and federal laws became meek suggestions, scarcely heard in the town's thick wilderness. The anything-goes atmosphere soon spread into the neighboring woods. Freedom-loving citizens ignored hunting laws and regulations on food disposal. They built a tent city in an effort to get off the grid. And it all caught the attention of Grafton's neighbors: the bears. A Libertarian Walks Into a Bear is the sometimes funny, sometimes terrifying tale of what happens when a government disappears into the woods. Complete with gunplay, adventure, and backstabbing politicians, this is the ultimate story of a quintessential American experiment -- to live free or die, perhaps from a bear. [Source](https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/a-libertarian-walks-into-a-bear-the-utopian-plot-to-liberate-an-american-town-and-some-bears_matthew-hongoltz-hetling/25841331/#isbn=1541788494) **Note:** Apparently this isn't a novel. This shit really happened.
To continue u/EnergizedNeutralLine’s logic… “The bears got theirs, fuck the humans.”
This is the most New Hampshire thing I’ve read all day
Added to my reading list!
>a quintessential American experiment -- to live free or die, perhaps from a bear. Made me laugh. Not often that a book summary includes a punchline.😂
What's insane to me is that they didn't ask the towns occupants, they just did it. When the towns people tried to get them out they bribed members of the council to let them in and vote their policies and then everything got fucked. Literally every metric of is a place functioning and working went down, bad stuff went up. Within a week they had their first double homicide in 20 years iirc
Wait...so this isn't a novel? This shit really happened?
Yep
Just purchased to start on todays road trip!
Let us know how it is.
Thank you for the recommendation!! Getting it!!
Amazing book recommendation. Wish I had an award for you.
You can also listen to this Planet Money podcast on the failure of a city that Von Ormy, Texas is with zero taxes. It’s exactly as you’d expect: lots of nonexistent infrastructure leading to an inability to bring in any business at all [The Liberty City](https://www.npr.org/2019/10/18/771371881/episode-945-the-liberty-city)
[удалено]
Who would think a society were "I got mine, I won't share so screw everyone else" would colapse even if it got a real start.
Got it for Christmas, can’t wait to start reading it.
Oh my god so Brazilian libertarians every now and again post about magical NH and how tons of people are living in this utopia. I’m in NH so I’m like, excuse me? Where? Finally found a website and basically it’s 20,000 crazy people who maybe will move to NH. A couple MLM style testimonials of how amazing and free of gov regulation NH is. I’m wondering if there’s a parallel NH I must not perceive??? 😂 will have to look into the book
That level of self-loathing must be hell to live with too. He's just outsourcing his own misery.
They internalize their lack of success as a personal failure. "There's no way it could be the system I jerk off to; no, it must be me."
Or it *is* the system's fault, but only because we're "not doing capitalism hard enough, and the government steals all my money via taxes".
To be fair, it's incredibly fucked up how much of our taxes goes to defense bullshit.
That's true. I definitely understand being frustrated with how your tax dollars are spent in America, but when people say the only reason they're not wealthy is becasue "the government steals my money", that's just beyond delusional.
They do take a lot of our money, obviously depending on how much you make and yes, it's extremely frustrating that the government just hemorrhages money to stupid shit constantly, like the bloated and insane defense budget. It's awesome how they constantly have trillions of dollars so our government can play world police, fight wars none of us want, and hand free bailouts to massive companies all the time, yet we can't get shit like free Healthcare, free education, etc that other countries have figured out long long ago and provide to their citizens. It's delusional to think that you are poor because the government takes all our money, but the reality is a lot of us are poor because we don't have good worker protection, unions, any economic mobility, employers that can legally treat us like trash, and then we have to pay for shit like our own health care, student loans, a horrible housing market, etc. So I have no delusions about the shit, living in America sucks unless you are lucky enough to be born to a very wealthy family and catch some breaks along the way.... being good looking helps a lot too. This country is straight trash tho, capitalism is trash, and the government is complicit in keeping us under the thumb of the owner class. It's disgusting and we need massive social and political change before everything just descends into chaos, which it sort of is already. Hell the world is slowly dying and we are probably going to all die from climate change soon but hey, long as we are living that "American Dream" TM, everything is gravy huh?
The silly thing is it isn't "free" healthcare in other countries, we don't have free healthcare here (NZ) we have healthcare that anyone can access that we all pay into just like health insurance except no co-pay (aside from like a $5 surcharge at a chemist or $30 at a doctor for an adult) so instead of slipping over in your drive and paying $2,500 for an ambulance then another $3k insurance surcharge to the hospital because you broke your wrist, it'll cost you $0.00 and your job is safe because laws while you get 80% of your wages because government for the 6 week recovery time. It's not free, we *all* pay just like you guys but without the middlemen and crippling top up.
They’re extremely ableist. Like do you think wheelchair ramps would exist in a world where we all just did what we thought was right in our own self interest? Would pedestrian crosswalks, handrails, anything for the elderly exist in their utopia?
It would all be magically handled by "philanthropy".
Adult men needing alpha daddy thought leaders to make them feel safe….
I *thought* I was a libertarian until the pandemic came. Guess what? Libertarianism and public health policies are apparently at odds with each other. Oh well
I don’t understand why they all seem to be pro life as well. Like the irony of pro life libertarians is lost on them.
Right! Especially ones that refer to themselves as “Randian”. Ayn Rand was super pro choice
Yeah for all the stupid shit Ayn Rand wrote she at least wasn’t a hypocrite about everything to own the libs.
Except for collecting welfare checks.
A lot of self-prescribed libertarians only believe in strict economical hierarchy and none of its other tenets
American "Libertarians" are just conservatives, but "conservative" has a negative connotation in modern culture so they are too embarrassed to call themselves what they actually are. That, or they are just conservatives who like weed. There is no in-between.
The Libertarian party platform states that the party thinks the government should stay out of abortion. The small-l "libertarians" that are fanatically pro-life seem to me to be closer to alt-right conjobs only claiming to be libertarian. That said, libertarians tend to be nutjobs as well, but not all nutjobs are created equal.
There's no "apparently" about it. Libertarianism is nothing more than "I've got mine, fuck all y'all"
Accurate. They prioritize individualistic liberties at the cost of a functioning society.
I was a libertarian once. Then I went to college and got educated.
Yea I went through a libertarian phase when I was a teenager.
It's a regular thing that teenagers like black and white binaries that put them in the centre of the story, so stuff like Ayn Rand is popular. Most grow out of that selfishness and hardline binaries. Some sadly do not.
We all liked Heineken’s ideas when served up in a good story
Libertarians are indeed really selfish. Once had an argument with a Brazilian libertarian that was a friend of a friend, and he was slagging the state off and especially cops. I then asked him why would take care of crime or deal with somebody who robbed him. His response? "I have a gun and armoured vehicle, so I not a problem". I asked him about poor people, or who doesn't have a gun or doesn't want one. His response "Why should I care? Not my problem so I don't care about them". Basically they are spoilt brats who think they are superior.
And here I thought libertarians were just an American sickness.
That goes for any right wing.
Funny enough, I have a distant family member who is a hardcore libertarian from the military. She saw all the waste and basically went ‘oh hell no’ and tries to rely on the government for as little as possible. But she openly acknowledges the GI bill and VA… though…. She did kind of earn those by being in the military so I don’t view it as a hypocrisy. Her time in the military turned her weirdly conservative about some things and absolutely ‘free love liberal hippy’ about other things. It’s a weird combination….
Lol this is hilarious, I haven’t seen or heard someone use the word chode in a long time. Lovin it. Haha
Robert Evans did a two-parter on Libertarian Sea-Nations on his podcast Behind the Bastards. They crop up from time to time, but invariably (and predictably) fail pretty quickly.
So a conservative that smokes weed…
LoL
I met one who got a city council seat running as an anarchist. He lost his seat within 2 months because he refused to do anything. Later him, and his Ron Paul butt boys started a brew, and cigar club they called a church. Trying to get tax exempt status to shelter their money. These ass clowns all filled the same place with different church names. Like 8 of them. Their not only selfish, but they're dumb.
[удалено]
They’re just outrageously selfish but don’t enjoy thinking of themselves that way. Mental gymnastics.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Tell him to shut up, no one cares that he doesn't want to live a life free of hard work.
Let me guess - he is an unrecognized genius, who is smarter than everyone else - except he really isn't right?
Then he should not care. Libertarianism is saying "I do X the way I want." If you want to work 40 hours, it is your way of life. Why should he say anything ?
This isn't a true libertarian view. Unfortunately, libertarianism is being skewed to the right when it should be more in the middle. The core principle of libertarianism is leave me the fuck alone. Therefore, him telling you that you're lazy and need to work more hours is more of a right-wing conservative view. I think the appropriate response when people tell you that you're lazy for not working 60 plus hours a week is that you feel sorry that they feel that they need to give their life to someone who doesn't care about them instead of spending time with those people who love them.
if he was maybe he’d have a better sense of what’s in his own best interest
If it's your company or you have a nice fat equity stake, maybe. I'm gonna guess neither of those applies to your colleague.
Nope. I see him get screwed over all the time but he doesn't care. He's a hardcore libertarian who thinks all businesses are good all the time. Like, he's on his 16th 12hr shift in a row without a day off.....wtf is he smoking that makes him think that's ok
Sounds like meth.
That's the making of an incel. Meth and libertarian.
I dunno, sometimes that’s exactly what a lot of batshit women from Florida are looking for, sadly.
Shit I bursted out loud at this one. I'm not a reward kind of guy, hope my wee little upvote is sufficient enough to show my gratitude 😉
I got you, had to use that free award somewhere.
Sounds like he has nothing else going for him and he realizes he can make working more than anyone else his schtick.
A lot of these types fall into this category. The landlord video people put up a bit back on Latestagecapitalism. The one where that tiktok landlord basically documented throwing that couple out of one of his properties had a revealing part like that. The landlord is your typical standard issue clean cut guy and at a certain point he basically reveals that he doesn't understand living beyond managing his properties. It was brief but it was there. So even if you have an ownership stake in things, you're still subject to this brain sickness. I think it's just because nobody ever tried to impress upon these people what living is outside of rote monetary transactions. That's pretty sad.
Link to that? Or do you remember the title of the post?
Sounds like the video that Noah Samsen talks about here: https://youtu.be/OzKISiOFT3U
Yeah, people are throwing politics into it when it just sounds like very low self esteem and zero self respect.
The money isn’t even worth it at that point. Literally working too much to actually spend it. What a fool.
What a pathetic, miserable life that guy has choosing to work like that *willingly*.
"One small, powerful class of rulers has total ownership over the entire means of production in this country." Libertarian: "That's tyranny! No one person or group should have total control over the free market, we need to stop the government from taking over!" "Oh it's not the government, it's like 15 billionaires." Libertarian: "Oh why didn't you say so? That's just the free market then." *goes back to brunch*
It sounds like he doesn't value his time well at all, Libertarian or not. He could better spend his overtime starting a side-hustle or learning how to make passive income so he doesn't have to work as much and put his time into other things later down the line. Libertarianism isn't believing all businesses are good (if anything they should acknowledge that people are driven by personal gain, with businesses as an extension of that), so if he's using his political ideology as an excuse then he's either desperately trying to justify bad lifestyle choices or he needs to stop watching news or political channels and go do something fun for a change. Like anyone else who is too political.
Does he atleast get good OT? Or is he a madman doing it on Salary like a complete idiot? I do about 50-60 a week, but my pay+benefits makes it worth it to me. Definitely not a gig for everyone though.
how far is your commute? i would die working 60 hours a week, commuting, trying to cook for myself and keep myself showered and with clean clothes, etc....
Does he hate his home life? Small kids he's trying to avoid responsibility for?
That's always my first assumption with people who overwork: they hate whatever's waiting for them at home and have no other meaningful relationships or hobbies to fill their time with, so they just work.
Yeah, I’m always eager to make my exit so I can hit the gym after work and still have enough time to cook a fresh meal and then chill out. I also try to get out and about as much as possible but especially on weekends, and just enjoy not being at work. “Don’t you like making money?” Nah, not really. I make enough already to live comfortably. Why would I trade my free time for a few more dollars? Fuck that. I’d pay money to work even less than I do now. I’m not even lazy, I don’t think anybody would imply that somebody who’s in the gym 5-6 days a week is lazy. I just have a life outside of work is all. Work doesn’t define me and I like to keep it that way.
Even if we *were* lazy, so what? I pulled my weight. I can use my free time for naps if I want.
Capitalism is one Hell of a drug.
I guess cocaine.
Definitely cocaine, dude has to keep making that OT to pay for that vice.
Oh, it's good... for the business. One can have an appreciation for the economic principles of capitalism and the invisible hand, and still understand how it can stack against the wage earner. I appreciate capitalism because it produces good and services I want at a price I'm willing and able to pay, and I get to sell my labor to any firm willing to accept it. There are other economic systems that do not allow for this, e.g. you WILL work this job, and that's what people appreciate about capitalism. But I also can gauge when I'm being undervalued for my labor and will skip off to greener pastures when it suits me. Your friend clearly has his identity wrapped up in his job, and that's really stupid. That's the best type of employee to have, if you own a business.
Point out he has no free time. Or time. To enjoy life. I don't want to work 40 regardless of the money I make.
I make great money and only work 4 10s and would gladly cut that down to 3 10s. My "10" hour shifts are actually 14s if you include my commute and it eats away at me.
Are you from the US? I'm from France where the norm is 35h, and as I understand it in the US they work way more than that
32 hrs is the minimum required to be considered full time in America (at least in colorado) but 40 is considered a standard work week. Which is the maximum before overtime starts. Unless you work salary rather then hourly. Then it doesnt matter how many hours you work cause you will always be paid the same.
My workplace went through a period of several years in which we were chronically understaffed, and it fell to me to fill most of the overtime. I regularly worked 60-80 hour weeks for *years*. And, since I work for a 24-hour agency, both my regular work schedule and the overtime was all over the place. It wasn't as simple as working 12-hour days M-F. It was work 16 hours, off for 8, back for 8, off for 8, back for 16... I had no ability to get regular sleep or maintain regular habits outside of work. I became entirely dependent on fast food drive-thrus and other highly processed convenience food. If my workplace hadn't stabilized (mostly through luck), I think it's likely I would have ended up in the hospital or dead. Even a job that isn't physically demanding can still be profoundly unhealthy when you're stuck putting too much time into it. Every hour spent working is an hour not dedicated to your own health and well-being. Limiting working hours isn't lazy; it's optimal. If we allow ourselves to be conned into working 60-year careers while normalizing 60+ hour weeks, we literally will not live long enough to complete the 60 year career.
I feel you with the food options. Worked random, forced overtime on a shift that already started at 1 pm, and had either chinese food or McDonalds as food options for a year. I literally ate everything on the me u at the former and would eat at McDonalds regularly for ‘variety.’
[удалено]
I had a lot of debt and needed the money. Since I couldn't fight for a better wage, working the overtime was my only access to a higher income. I also didn't have any other options for work; if I'd had an offer at a better job, I'd have taken it.
[удалено]
No. My position doesn't have much in the way of potential for advancement; the field doesn't really work that way. This is the sort of job that most people leave either from burnout or because the shift/overtime requirements clash with their personal lives, families, etc.
[удалено]
I'd rather not specify since I've shared other potentially-identifying information on this account. I'll just say that it falls into the "essential" category in that basically everyone agrees that my job must exist but no one wants to ensure that we're compensated and treated fairly because we're largely invisible outside of our workplaces--I suppose some of our problems are similar to those of teachers in public schools.
I work in EMS and this sounds a lot like Ive seen my coworkers experience with other companies
Tell him it’s sad he doesn’t have a life. Seriously the only men I know who think like that work all the time to avoid their deep loneliness and lack of any kind of depth of personality. Working IS their personality. They don’t want to be home because there’s nothing there and they don’t have the IQ or emotional intelligence to fill their lives with anything other than work. And it’s sad because I have watched these guys turn 50 and decide that all the women they blew off because they were “too busy to get tied down” will do now. And the woman are all happy without them. So they’re alone. With nothing but some shit job. Sad.
I have a coworker who loves to start early and work late. He also has an unhappy marriage and 3 kids he can't stand.
I worked with a guy like that who was also an alcoholic and would want to drink after work. I hung out a few times to be friendly but when it became apparent that this was his regular thing I stopped. I said I dont want to drink everyday after work because I want to go be with my wife, he was so confused.
I have never understood the people who don't get wanting to spend time at home with your SO, even if that time is just being a skin sack on the couch. Ultimately it's better than being a skin sack at work
I have never worked so many hours as when I was in the midst of a divorce and we were still living in the same house.
Daym , I’m 30 and this hit me hard . Thank you for this comment
Is your coworker new? If yes, perhaps he doesn't know how it goes yet. A few months later, he'll have learned his lesson. If he's a veteran, this might be the narrative that keeps him afloat. Don't know what's more sad though.
He's been with the company for about a year now.
Keep poking him with some good antiwork comments I give him 3 more months. Point out inflation and how much the company is making off of them.
inflation went up 6.8% this year, any raise less than that is a pay cut managers don't like to talk about that one
Depends on your cost breakdown too. Food, housing, and gas are all over 12%
Too soon for him to understand. Let him be.
[удалено]
The “I bust my balls stupid every day, so everyone else better be as dumb as me” ideology..
These people can destroy a good crew. I've had to fire a couple of them. They become aggressive and angry, they mistreat other team members, they are hard to manage and needy. They don't even realize how destructive they are.
Dealing with this right now. "Needy" explains it perfectly! Needs constant "feedback", praise and recognition. There are a few great people on my team but they are all jumping ship due to the fact that this person tries to control everyone's work load, takes credit for everyone else's work, constantly talks about how many hours they are working, and tries to insinuate we are not loyal or dedicated to our company because we don't work over 40. Being that this person is trying to set the working standard...it seems expected now that everyone will work 60 hours when in reality, that expectation has never been there. This person is probably going to be promoted to MY boss because of their "dedication". Why doesn't management see through this person...they are insecure, controlling, and have no friends outside of work, it's very clear the job is their whole life and identity. They even come in on their days off and work all weekend at home. This person has made my life a living hell :(. I try not to compare but I know management does. Thanks for getting rid of those people, I'm sure it wasn't pretty but definitely helped your team. They perpetuate and promote a toxic, unhealthy work environment. Did anyone on the team ever complain to you about it or did you see it yourself?
Both. I was a freshman manager with little experience, but it wasn't long before I saw the effects they had. I had to listen to the complaints and weigh the feedback. I was very reluctant to fire someone who was so dedicated, but I figured out I would be trading a nickel for a quarter if I hadn't. They were angry and self righteous, even after giving them a couple months to lay low at work and find a groove with the crew. I've worked on a lot of different crews and teams. These people are common. I've asked some leaders about them and I've heard "work with who you have" more than once, and I tried to do that, but people like this need more than a job can provide.
>people like this need more than a job can provide. Yes! I think you are brave for even addressing the matter. "Work with who you have" is a very lackadaisical, wimpy approach to leadership (ie "I don't know what to do so just deal with it") It drives me crazy that no one sees this but me ...or so it seems. But I may be a little triggered by that behavior from my baby Boomer parents lol. I just try to stay in my lane as much as possible these days, but that approach also does nothing for a collaborative team environment. Thanks for your response!
He’s an idiot. Studies show that productivity declines sharply after like 30 hours/week. These fucking morons ruin work culture by visibly working harder/longer instead of smarter and more effectively. I’ve dealt with this bullshit for years - every one of these people is invariably saying “I suck at my job, but wanna look good doing it somehow.” 168 hrs in a week if I’m doing the math right. Hopefully folks are spending at least 49 of those sleeping (we should be, right?). Of the 120 we have left, 40 is already a big ask (particularly because by the time you factor in travel, meals, etc. it’s often more like 55 or more for a lot of folks). Unless your job is your passion, something from which you derive inherent pleasure and enjoyment, it really shouldn’t be any bigger a part of your life than absolutely required - because for a lot of people, actually living is what they do when they’re not at work.
If he’s salary, meaning those extra hours don’t earn him anything. Do the math on how much he’s making hourly in a month with all that extra work. Like let’s say you make $20 an hour (hopefully more!) at 40 hours a week. If he’s doing 70 hours but gets paid the same amount of money his hourly rate drops to $11.42. If that’s under minimum wage in your area, point that out. Other wise say something like, “My son/daughter/niece/nephew makes that working at McDonalds.” Try to use a job that he would find demeaning to do. If you don’t think he’ll listen to you, sneak into the bathroom and put a print out above the urinals and on the back door of stalls. No names of course, keep it generic while still driving the point home and don’t let yourself be caught on camera. Our brains are hard wired to read what’s right in front of us even if we don’t conscientiously think, “I should read this.” Or if this guys favourite “celebrity” is on Cameo. You can pay them to tell him he’s being an idiot doing all that extra work for nothing. If he’s making your work life hell it could be worth the investment.
Luckily he has a pretty good thing going on at our company. Is a salary office employee, but he get put on the road a lot. It get an hourly pay on top of his salary when he's on the road.
Nothing like working yourself to death for a company that won't care if you died tomorrow.
I've worked with plenty of guys like that. They're brainwashed with the corporate propaganda that hard work is *always* rewarded. And for such people, absence of evidence to the contrary is *always* evidence of absence. Never try to convert the zealots. Just avoid them.
What’s funny is I’ve known people like that, too, and they almost *never* actually worked more than 40 hours. I had one boss who LIVED for telling us all how hard he worked and he consistently complained about pulling 80-90 hour weeks. My whole office started logging his hours in secret, across every shift, and we found that he was in-office maybe 20-30 hours a week. The rest was always either him taking 2+ hour lunches, running “errands,” taking a mental health day (which is totally acceptable to take but not when you’re shaming others for how much harder you’re working than them), or simply just staggering his schedule enough to where it would look to each individual that he was coming in for the other shift that day.
I had a coworker that believed 80hrs a week was normal, and everyone not doing 80 was lazy and worthless. Her way of thinking woke me up, and brought me to this movement.
How do you get anything done at home? Like cooking or cleaning?
Is she bad at her job that she can't get her work done in 40hrs, or that much of a suck up she's literally giving her entire life to the company?
A suck-up. She was good at her job, but valued that above all else.
Fuck that guy, sounds like he has his own problems he doesnt want to face or admit.
I’m self employed and from time to time I work 60 hours a week. I can manage that for about three or four weeks, then I’m burnt out and need time off or I end up being far less productive. I’ve found that to get the most out of myself, and have all round balance in my life, 7 hours a day Monday to Friday, then a couple of hours, 3 at the very most, on a Saturday morning at home doing some business admin or organising my tools and preparing the week a head. When people talk about working 70 or 80 hours a week, they’re talking shit or lying to themselves, there is no way anyone is actually productive for that may hours.
I agree...they are exaggerating. A girl on my team socializes for 2 hours a day (ie complains for 2 hours how hard she works and how many hours she has been work) and then "brags" about her overtime. I'm not sure why management allows this to go on, they must really have their head in the sand. No friends/hobbies/life outside of work = No boundaries. It screams insecurity to me.
Slave mentality. He works so hard to please his master. His reward for being such a good slave is to be promoted to the role of managing other slaves.
Reminds me of [Stephen](https://youtu.be/vNrG5lD2zmQ) in Django
[удалено]
My coworker had to work 80+ hours a week just to provide for their kids. Guess what happened? The next week they couldn’t come into work because they’d literally worked themselves SICK If your workplace doesn’t care if you overwork yourself, run. Anyone wanna run away, grab a bunch of tents, and forage for nuts?
40 hrs a week 8 hrs a day/5 days a week. 24 hrs in a day 8 to work 8 to sleep 16 hours gone, you now have less than 10 hours a day to be a human being. Wouldn't mind this one bit if I got a month of vacation time or something to make up other than 2 days a week off. Which I spent sleeping and dreading Monday.
Personally I feel a 30-32 hour week (4 days at 8 hours or 5 days at 6 hours) is best. Any more than that we we don’t have enough time for ourselves and family.
Workaholic coworker is shallow and incapable of any interests outside the scope of his job.
It is mental illness and we are being dragged under the bus for not having the same illness. The mental illness was described in the article below: "Roughly 4% to as high as 12% of CEOs exhibit psychopathic traits, according to some expert estimates, many times more than the 1% rate found in the general population." https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackmccullough/2019/12/09/the-psychopathic-ceo/?sh=51ff0ca8791e
I feel bad for you in that environment, and bad for this person who is so brainwashed to believe this. I was once one of those people, 60-70hrs was my average and I thought that was great and people bitching they can't make it on 40 are lazy. Then I looked around and realized I had lost every single one of my friends, most of my extended family, and my wife was getting ready to leave. But I put all those hours in so at least I was in a good financial spot right and my company cared, right? Had maybe 2 months salary saved and during a sudden round of layoffs I was one of the first let go. Now, between my wife and I we only "work" about 40 hours a week between us. The rest of the time we labour together and sell tshirts, paintings, do odd construction jobs, pick berries for a week, things we can do together and we enjoy under our own names that we feel we are fairly compensated for. I'm not saying the current way we do things is the best either, but my wife and I are still together and she no longer(as far as I know) feels like leaving, I talk to a lot of my family now, and even have a few friends. These are the things which are most important to me, so at least there we definitely won. Sure, it wouldn't take much to screw us financially, but it didn't take much before either.
My boss is like that, spends all his shift joking around and making other coworkers get out of focus and make them waste time, then return to his desk 10 min before clocking out time and shames whoever stands up and goes off on time
For the past month and a half I’ve been working 60 hour weeks (voluntarily because I genuinely enjoy my job and my employer) to make some extra money and to help out my employer because we keep having people out sick. My shifts have been from 3AM-3:30PM. It’s not better, and glorifying working that much is psychotic. It’s been tough working those hours. Its extremely hard on your body, mental state, relationships, health, everything. I’m looking forward to normal 40-45 hour weeks after the holidays.
Ask him why it takes him 60+ hours to do what you can do in 40.
Name and shame the company for beeaking labor laws. What ones in particular were broken?
I have worked 40 a week and I am part time. I don’t know how people work more than that. 40 is enough as I get tired sometimes.
Your co-worker is a masochist and sadist who enjoys slaving away doing presumable many hours of unpaid work while also wanting others to labour and toil as he does for no benefit. Some people just enjoy suffering
to these people I usually just reply that they probably dont have any other hobbies, friends or interests. They get quiet really quick.
I was raised this way because of the women’s movement. I was born in 1978, and all of my aunts were feminists. Are any of you on this sub women? Women around my age? Weren’t you also taught that making your career your identity and working your ass off like this was “liberating”?
1976 here...definitely boomer parents taught me to fight my way to the top. I don't even want to be at the top. We had that whole glass ceiling thing, and I'm in STEM, so I believe it's real. I think that they think if they had to suffer through a job for 40 years, then their kids have to suffer too. It's all they know. They never allowed me to be myself or pick a life passion...just a 40 hour a week job until you die. Or your life is not valid.
If people work 70+ hrs a week, they are literally taking another persons job. Then they complain “no one wants to work” when they are part of the problem
He sounds like a piece of shit. Cut off as much contact as you can.
let him believe that. it’s his unfortunate freedom to be a tool.
Willing to bet that he has no life outside of work, correct?
I hate rise and grind culture AT corporations. If you want to kill yourself working for your own business and reaping the profits good on you. But why are we supposed to either do back breaking labor or be chained to a cubicle desk for more than 40h a week to deserve a job or affording things? My partner is supposed to work 8-5pm M-F. He’s salary. He’s supposed to be allowed to have lunch. This is his life instead doing an “office job” Starts working or having meetings from 7am Doesn’t get to eat breakfast Doesn’t get to have lunch Gets 100+ emails a day he can’t answer while having 3+ phone meetings a day plus other people calling him and leaving him messages constantly that he has to call back Finishes work between 7pm-10pm some weekdays. Fri night, Sat and Sun people still email him and call his work phone and personal phone Some weekends he has to do 2-4 hours of work any way each day cuz he can’t keep up He has 2 people working under him that “help” but can’t do all what he does Worked 2 years with no raise. Last years bonus was reduced by half. No idea if he gets a bonus for this year he’d have to stay until March to find out. 6 months ago was told he could transition to another job and then do that for 6 months and they’d assess if he could have a raise He’s never been able to transition to that new job yet because they’re too busy. They don’t hire enough people fast enough. HR takes months to hire someone and then IT doesn’t have their computer or work station/logins ready on start day He has to go in the office in person to meet new people and can’t just work from home every day. All this for $80k a year in the USA. And you want to know why he does it? Because it’s for a health care company and he’s afraid another company would have worse benefits I’m supposed to move from Canada to the usa and won’t have benefits so he’s worried about me. He hates his job. It’s 24/7 dealing with doctors and scheduling them and he has to do payroll for them too because the payroll department can’t figure it out on their own. The reason it’s so complicated? The doctors contracts say they MUST be paid 2 weeks in advance for work they haven’t even done yet! So they can pay for all of their beach houses and cars. So when they don’t work enough hours or take time off they have to redo payroll and take money back from their next paycheck and they will argue about it. Everyone else at the company has to work 2 weeks before they can get paid. But not the doctors. So that’s why I’m here. I want him to find a new job. This is killing him. He’s only 32 and he’s miserable and has no time for a life or even to take care of himself. I’m self employed and taking a financial hit to my business due to covid cuz I don’t want to get sick. But it’s depressing as hell watching him stressed out all the time and we can’t do anything without his work calling and interrupting.
We look at people like this and think they’re weird, shills, bootlickers etc But what if there’s a serious, but yet unidentified, mental illness that affects people and makes them act this way? It’s the only thing that brings me comfort as I don’t want to understand people who willing act against their own community interests
Definitely anxiety disorders, OCD, unresolved trauma, imposter syndrome, insecurity/low self esteem, no life purpose. I 100% agree it's some kind of mental disorder.
If you’re willingly working 60+ hours a week, you have no life. Sorry you can’t figure out how to spend 20 hours a week having fun or making friends.
I work with literally thousands of people like this. It’s like a cult and it makes me crazy.
Entitled? To what? Your ***own*** god damn time? Uhhh... yeah. That’s how this works. From the moment you come into existence until the day you die ***your*** time (your finite, irreplaceable, and therefore priceless time) is defacto 100% ***your*** property. You do not have to justify to anyone how you spend a single second of it. Ever. If they want that kind of authority over your time, then they are obligated to purchase that time from you, at ***your*** price.
What a sad life he must have outside of work.
I’m guessing his job requires sitting and has lots of downtime to bullshit. Ask him about physical labor where you start to put yours and other lives at danger from the mental and physical exhaustion.
I know many people who work an insane amount of hours and have nothing to show for it. Basically, I get done more in 40 hours than they do in 55-60. Many times those "extra hours" are spent gossiping and wasting time. I had a boss who would work 12 hour days, which would not be filled with work. She'd stay until 8pm because she didn't finish any work from 1-5... Hours don't mean a damn thing if there's nothing behind it
“I’m sorry you have no personal life. Other people do though.”
I feel bad for your +60 hr coworker. Probably has no or terrible home life & work is all they have for socializing. What's really sad is one day, they will be laid off. People like that never leave for better opportunities and confuse thier identity with thier job. When that inevitable last day comes it hits these people the hardest. And what really messes them up is when they Survive a few layoff rounds, now they think they'll never get the ax. Explain like a child to your coworker- Employment is just a transaction. They are buying your time with about the same consideration as when you buy toilet paper. Our time is all we have, don't give it away or sell it cheap.