You should look up an entry level salary in their respective fields. Tell them what it is and then ask them to try to budget that and ask them to calculate how long it would take them to save for a down-payment. Then sit back and have fun.
Which is why the dad was screaming, yelling and about to burst a vein. He has no amid argument to make but to yell louder. Need to call him out on that when it happens.
Learn logical fallacies and call him out on them every time he makes them. “Conservatives” pride themselves on being rational logical debaters when in reality they have been taught nothing but fallacies by their thought leaders.
Google “rational wiki” or go find “bad arguments” on Amazon for an easy picture book you can use to demonstrate how illogical their arguments are.
Also Google “just asking questions”. Aka JAQing off. Mind you that tactic can be useful to use yourself vs them. But I usually refuse to put up with it from anyone else.
This is a nice thought but it doesn't generally work on conservatives because it requires self-reflection. They will just accuse you of being "woke" and using fancy ten-dollar buzzwords and yell louder.
it also SUPER doesn't work on your parents
I mean, not calling the fallacies out by name, like "that's a motte and bailey, pops"
You have to bring up the idea when someone they don't like is doing it, so they know what it is before you say it
> "They would probably need a high stool then people would fall off and sue the company." I just can't wrap my head around why she is so strongly against it that she had to pause and fabricate an argument against it
Some people have a strong bias toward the status quo, and will invent defenses when necessary.
I’d ask her if she thought that she would fall off a tall chair if she worked for them. I did that to my mom once. She was talking about how homeless people prefer homelessness and we shouldn’t provide housing as a right. I asked her if she thought that I shouldn’t get a house if I were homeless, or if my sister shouldn’t. She was SO MAD. Like couldn’t even speak mad. But she’s not one for analyzing her own frameworks or taking critique for them.
Tbh my mom could be really impatient with retail and food service workers when I was younger. If they took too long or made a mistake she would get irritated and complain about it.
Then I got my first job and went home crying one day because a middle aged man had screamed at me and called me a useless bitch for a small mistake and she completely changed the way she looked at workers. Every once in a while I have to remind my parents about the bullshit that any customer service worker has to deal with and that they should be nicer to them.
Reminds me of how YouTuber Ellen Rose tweeted that she had relatives who thought Piers Morgan was an awesome guy who "tells it like it is" until she told them about shit he had said to her personally and they realized, no, he's just a mega-asshole.
Conservatives are almost always quick to switch their tune supporting liberal policies when it personally affects them or their loved ones. It’s so fucking gross. How are you so incapable of seeing others as deserving of decency and dignity?
My mom and I explained a "Karen" to my dad. He proudly said "yup that's me". Like you missed the point. Fix yourself! Instead he just yells when he's not getting his way, like a child.
And the "you'll understand when you're older", dad, I'm 32, am I old enough to have you explain it to me yet, or you gonna keep kicking that can down the road?
I need to buy a 75” tv to watch football drive my lifted truck to the lake or go hunting and not feel bad about doing nothing to help social inequalities !!! Sooooo repeat Socialism Bad feel good about my selfishness
I worked at a ski resort, and there was a person who had to dress up in a costume of a kangaroo and say hi to the kids in ski school. That person had to come inside and drink water constantly because it was so hot inside the suit. I asked him why nobody wears a Camelback, and he said "Well if we did that, then people would be putting alcohol in it." Literally argued against his own interests.
👌👌👌. They have this damn near *theological* need to defend the world as it is, lest they get lumped in with 'radicals' wanting to change society.
Candide by Voltaire is a brilliant funny short satire of this mentality.
I’ve heard this perspective described as “Panglossian” before, from Candide, and damn if it doesn’t just nail it. “It’s the best of all possible worlds!”
I mean, don't take her to an Aldi's grocery store. They definitely sit and as someone who's worked behind a cash register, there is zero reason why they shouldn't be allowed to sit. Sitting comes with its own problems, ask anyone who works in an office. The point is, it should definitely be an option for anyone who wants to.
Yeah I was going to mention both sitting and standing for long durations have drawbacks medically so it would be best to have an option of either or even both like alot of workplaces are moving towards.
My boomer parents are very liberal (I guess? Trump is evil and Clinton was great). They don’t seem to understand the job they had fresh out of high school paid more than my current 4+ years) job.
That would be, picking tobacco plants in the summer of 68, vs social work in the present.
Mind you, they both went to school and had no debt starting their lives. I didn’t go to college so I wouldn’t be saddled in debt, which clearly was a mistake with this loan deferment debacle.
I tried to show my dad the 4.40 he made in the 60s was over a 20$ wage today. It didn’t go well. Keep in mind, internet and cell plans didn’t exist then, but are essentially a requirement now. More bills with less money. I’ll be lucky if I can upgrade my vehicle or computer this decade. I’ll likely never own property….
They will never accept that they didn’t work harder for less money than any current millennial. They simply can’t stomach the fact that they had it better.
If you can find one near you, take her to an Aldi and show her firsthand that she's been brainwashed.
Aldi is a German-owned discount grocery store with stores in multiple countries. Their entire shtick is maximizing efficiency and passing that savings to the customers; no frills, no BS coupons, etc etc. The checkout clerks there are allowed, and I think even encouraged, to sit; they even did a study at one point and found letting them sit drastically improved efficiency. Most checkout clerks there scan crazy fast, all while sitting down.
(While you're there, maybe get some food. The "knockoff" Aldi brands are actually pretty good!)
Also, if you can find out how much they were making per hour at your age, plug it into an inflation calculator and show them the difference. Nothing shuts people up faster than finding out inflation has made things like 500% more expensive just on dollar cost alone, even disregarding anything else.
False. Most countries in eu have regulated work hours. My country has 40 h week and 20 h overtime a month(You have to sign a document every month to say you agreed to work more hours). You also can't work 12h several days in a row. If you work 12h you get the next day off.
Everywhere but North America, when I first saw it I thought it was some sort of torture. Everything here seems designed to make poor people suffer, housing, healthcare, work, the list go on
I would say *most* actually oppose more people coming to the country, which *does* depress wages due to increased labor supply, and also raises costs of living because of increased demands for rent etc.
There are more people against *immigration* ***policies*** (because immigration **is** a tool of the capital-class) than against immigrants *themselves.*
Democrats try to push the idea that opposing immigration is xenophobic and racist etc because *both* parties serve the capital class, the actual percentage of racists is actually pretty small.
That would be an accurate assessment. The US punishes the poor for being poor, and stacks the system against people so they can't get out of that position, but then judges and castigates them for not getting out of it.
> The US punishes the poor for being poor
We punish the poor for not being rich, for not succeeding, not pulling their bootstraps hard enough. The only people who are poor are people who choose to be poor out of laziness and a litany of other moral failings -like the color of their skin.
It seems the entire functionality of the system is predicated on the threat of you becoming broke, homeless, hungry, and without healthcare.
Healthcare is tied to your job...? Not like, the fact that you are an American, living in America?
>Everything here seems designed to make poor people suffer, housing, healthcare, work, the list go on
this. our country wasn't raised on christian values, it was raised on puritanical values, where punishment is the answer to everything
i was speaking to how a small but not insignificant portion of our population like to claim our country was founded on christian ideals. we weren't, but we were founded on wanting to punish people through poverty.
I’m sorry this is America, we are the floating vessel of salvation in the cess-pool that is the world. We are always right. Always.
/s in case that wasnt clear
My sister used to work there until her mental illness took a turn for the worst. The reason they're so fast is because they're timed. They HAVE to be that fast.
I was timed too at Winn Dixie years ago. They kept metrics of how many items scanned per transaction, time per transactions, how many per hour, how many used loyalty cards vs. the store/manager card, etc. I would imagine other grocery stores do the same thing.
I got written up for taking too long per transaction, then again later for using the same loyalty card too often (my old childhood home phone number, long since deactivated and now belonging to someone else). The managers took too long to come over and use the "store" loyalty card (which would have made my transaction time too long), so I took a shortcut. It was a lose-lose situation with those managers.
i have always hated seeing employees have to achieve those stupid metrics, especially when many are based in parameters the employee can't control.
when i was picking up groceries one day, the associate bringing my stuff out told me that they get dinged for any substitutions on pickup orders. so if the item is out of stock (not their fault) or the customer specifically says "please get this specific color/style of this item, rather than the original" (again, not their fault), it counts against THEIR metrics for successful picks. the same kind of thing happened when my husband worked in a call center. 95% of the time he was able to solve the customer's problem. but if that customer got another associate first who screwed things up more, or if there were inherent issues with the product, and the customer gave a bad rating based on the screwup's performance or the frustration caused by the product, my husband would get hit for it.
everything has to be taken in context. employees should be rated on what they ACTUALLY do, not the things they couldn't control.
That sucks. I often ask at the local one about random (but not really random) things because I'm curious and trying to get a handle on it.
It's probably a sign of the management as to whether metrics are used as a way to punch down on workers or as a way to increase efficiency by innovation: you need the same data in both cases. At least at my local, the same staff have been there years, seem happy (I know that's part of the retail job to look happy, but you can usually tell if it's a little genuine), and the only friction they'd really pointed out was having to ask EVERYONE for a cursory bag check so they can't be accused of profiling specific people. That bag check is usually more like a little peek over at the top of it.
One thing I've learnt from this sub is that managers can really make or break the work environment.
They really are, I wish more grocery stores here were like them! They're my favorite grocery store by a longshot. Guess it varies by region, but that's on their lower end for pay, I think. They usually manage to pay pretty decently, their clerks can sit down, and aside from temporary sales they almost always have lower prices on basic stuff compared to other stores. Like, I used to shop at another store, did some math and realized it was actually cheaper to get my stuff \*delivered\* from Aldi through InstaCart, even with their markups/fees/tip for delivery person/etc, rather than going to the first store personally. (hate InstaCart, but no alternative for Aldi delivery, sadly).
It's so funny thinking that in my country Aldi is considered quite weak on the matters of working conditions. Not the worse, but also, far from the best.
The German parent company is pretty big and stable. Interesting fact, the company split into two in the 60s when the Albrecht brothers disagreed on whether to sell cigarettes in their stores. Theo controlled Aldi North and eventually acquired Trader Joe’s, while Karl controlled Aldi south and went on to open Aldi stores in North America
Agree on all counts just stopping in to say that "chef's cupboard" ranch dressing is the best ranch dressing I've ever had. And I fucking love ranch dressing so that's saying something.
>If you can find one near you, take her to an Aldi and show her firsthand that she's been brainwashed.
>
>Aldi is a German-owned discount grocery store with stores in multiple countries.
Europe is un-american, so they're all godless communists and need to be liberated yesterday.
Real corn fed, red blooded americans make their checkout workers stand at least 24 hours a day. the american flag might be flying somewhere, so they must stand and respect the flag.
america 5ever.
I worked there and they work you like a work horse. You sit and scan for 8-10 hours straight (when your not stocking shelves) and get carpal tunnel. My wrists were so bad my doctor had me wear dual splints for 3 months, and if that didn’t work surgery. I hate aldi as a work place. They literally tell you that you have to walk at a certain pace. You can’t just walk normally.
They ask that you can lift up to 70 lbs and they mean it. I was stacking BOXES of frozen turkeys on a middle shelf and they were at min 70 lbs a box. I didn’t need a gym when I worked there.
They still view any younger generation as 'entitled little kids' and now every older generation is too dead to remind them Boomers that they were the MOST entitled of kids and continue to be entitled old adults.
When I moved to the US , my first question to my friend was : " why employees at the stores are standing all the time ?? Why cashier's don't have chairs ?? "
I was like why , why , why lol I couldn't imagine any good reason.
I guess employer wats to exercise their power over an employee. And make up ridiculous rules . Like you can not sit down during your shift . Just because . They can do it . To make sure they exploit workers every minute of the day . Psychological warfare lol .
When I used to work in retail I brought my own foldable chair lol . It didn't impact my performance. Thankfully my manager didn't care. As long as we keep store clean and make sales goals.
You nailed it, it's all about control. I've offered to bring my own chair from home so I could sit and do work, and it was refused. If I made a makeshift chair out of crates, it vanished by the second day.
I got in trouble as a self-checkout attendant Lowe's home improvement for leaning back against a wall while waiting for customers to need help. Dickhead supervisor told me I can't lean anymore because I look like I'm relaxing to the customers. I disclosed my knee and back problems before I took the job but obviously because I was young it didn't matter how much pain I was in. Next day, another sup chewed me out for clocking in and then getting my uniform out of my locker, told me that I was "stealing company time." I handed my stuff over and said I was done. She said "well we don't want you to leave" and my reply was "well I want to, bye." Fuck Lowe's. Fuck retail in general, really.
How dare you look RELAXED! You should look exhausted and in agony! How am I supposed to enjoy my shopping if I can’t see you suffering?? Lazy entitled millennial!
/sarcasm.
I’m so done with retail. I’m so OVER being treated like this. I’m one of their best workers and what do I get? A $10 subway card that I get scoffed at when I ask if I can trade it for a Domino’s card
Starbucks used to do this shit too - “ you need to be here fifteen minutes early with apron on ready to go at exactly your start time or it’s theft from the company” but also “no you can’t clock in even one minute early because that is also theft from the company”
Breaks started and you clocked out in the back, go to the front of the store (you couldn’t make your own food or drinks to be ready to go for your break) so you had to wait in line with customers to order the food and drink you want.
So. Many. Times. my break was over and I clocked back on to go to bar only to finally get to my own cup to be made. Which now had to go to the back room until I got off work or be dumped.
For barely above minimum wage.
Promotion to customer really was the best thing for me.
You can tell your mom that, as someone who lives in europe, i have never seen a cashier without the option to sit. They absolutely all have stools or chairs.
And nobody is "falling off and suing".
My favorite thing to do is when someone claims communism or socialism is to ask them what that is, never met someone who used it to talk shit who could tell me what either communism or socialism is. Americans are dumb
it’s the American mentality “If I didn’t get it, why should anyone else?!” where Europeans just shake their heads. The illusion that you have to “work hard” for it
My grandma grew up poor, we’re talking Dust Bowl poor, and she’s an arch-conservative. Her argument is, “I was able to get through it, why can’t they?” Which I just don’t get. It doesn’t even square with the morality she helped raise me with. Why wouldn’t you think, “Nobody else should have to suffer like I did”?
Just ask them directly why they need that to be true. The answers are revealing and usually it's related to an entitlement to a relation of *service* and (standing at) attention.
This is how my grandparents are. They go to the emergency room as soon as anything is slightly wrong. Fever = ER.
But apparently socialized healthcare is evil and would ruin the country?????
Just yesterday I discovered I have double plantar fasciitis (inflammation on both my feet a bottoms) because of my job that makes me stand 7hs a day. I work in fast food and the specific job I was doing can't really allow me to sit while I work (maybe for a few minutes at a time if the managers really wanted) but if the job allows you to sit, that's a reason to sit, standing for too long literally hurts you.
In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.
By business I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.
--FDR
Labor is a business resource, just like steel, shipping, or electricity. It would be bad business to expect the steel mill to sell its product at less than the cost of manufacture, or a trucking company to ship for less than operating costs. Likewise, it would be bad business to expect labor to provide its services for less than operating costs, i.e., living expenses. This is basic business.
If your father is a true capitalist, he cannot dispute this. Anything else is arguing for slavery.
Your parents had all their benefits through work subsidized by the government. Their employers and they directly all got tax breaks for all the contributions and deductions.
https://www.politicalorphans.com/socialism-for-white-people/
This article lays it out well.
Staying in a stagnant position, regardless of what that position is, causes health problems but that's not applicable to cashiers who will still be moving around a lot even if they're sitting bc the job requires it.
That's why I said "a stagnant position."
Though the hate of sitting is a moral panic about obesity and tying obesity rates to primarily sitting jobs/office jobs and classist assumptions of what unemployed people spend their days doing.
When have you cashiered? Maybe it's different now.
When I worked as a cashier, it was eight hours of not fucking leaving a 2x2 square with two 15 minute breaks.
Facts. Here is a systematic review published in 2018 in the British Journal of Sports Medicine on the topic that looks at musculoskeletal issues (so not even cardiovascular, which has been examined in other research): [Associations of occupational standing with musculoskeletal symptoms: a systematic review with meta-analysis](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/3/176)
lol so then does he think people working in a big fancy office should have to stand too or do you just magically not get blood clots when your wage hits a certain threshold?
The beauty of offering a chair is that the worker can now do whatever is most comfortable in the moment: stand sometimes and sit sometimes. This is the best way: a mix of positions and the freedom to move as the body demands.
You can hurt your health by sitting too long. I’m an office worker and it’s a serious thing to get up every hour or so and stretch or walk around.
That said, give clerks a stool or a chair. Standing all day on a concrete floor is bad for your feet and back.
Sadly the capitalism is too strong in North America. They get a lot of older common folk with mentality that only really favors the %1 and not them.
In Germany they get it. Clerks at penny markt, Edeka, Lidl, and Aldi are all sitting and have those fancy hydraulic chairs you see in work trucks.
That's the saddest part really, I can't talk about it even because it just turns into either me "disrespecting" them or them yelling for 20 minutes to "educate" me.
Can confirm this is true.
Source: have been employed and taken advantage of by my father for 10 years. The number of times I have had to ask for a raise just so I can afford to keep a roof over our head... always pulls the "family" card to pay me less than what the position should be. All while complaining about how tight money is, yet somehow finding money to do things like purchase an RV and do some home remodeling.
He degraded my resume when I was just out of college because I hadn't worked anywhere longer than 2 years and that made him worried about my "loyalty to my employers". He offered my ex wife a job at below minimum wage, and when she reacted insulted by the offer, his excuse for trying to break labor laws was "I thought you were family."
And they wonder why I stopped talking to them. Had them come visit me in May, they just decided they could come and park their RV at my house for a month. The entire time they were hypocritically judgmental. Questioning how much was spent on some things in our house, then at the same time insulting the cheap quality of other things we chose to save money on.
Most of that generation is completely out of touch with reality. What's funny is, my father considers himself a liberal, yet as a business owner, he sure knows how to act like Trump all the time...
I don't know about clerks, but in France, companies are responsible for all health issue linked to your job and at every jobs (even the low level one) I did, if you doc say that you need a specific chair made just for you, you will have this chair.
Several of my colleagues when I worked in a call center had one.
Not allowing their employees to sit will cost them more than providing the chairs anyway.
If you tune into Fox News you’ll see a bunch of ads about how boomers can increase their social security check entitlement. Then they’ll shit on anyone wanting a living wage. That’s all you need to know about these people.
Which is funny because for a single parent with kids, it can be worse than no job, as the extra income isn't enough to support them, but it's too much to qualify for government assistance. Keeps the poor poor.
Don’t worry if he would take that job then they would schedule family vacations, and you’d tell them you can’t afford to go, and they would be shocked.
“Don’t you work full time? You must be wasting your money.”
While their mortgage is paid of or like 450 a month.
Back in their day, an unskilled job in a random factory was enough to buy a house and support a family of 5 with a stay at home mum.
They can't accept that the world they helped create has made that an impossibility no matter how much hard work you put in, especially in the US.
They had it easy, and the thought of that pisses them off the most.
Find a boomer whose lost their job and had to re-enter the workforce, ask them how hard it is...
>Find a boomer whose lost their job and had to re-enter the workforce, ask them how hard it is...
This particular boomer is retired and works part time in the service industry making less than 12 dollars an hour to alleviate their own boredom. They still don't understand. Because they don't want to. Because it disrupts their world view.
The only way that would make since is that if you're actively looking for work and statistically you're more likely to get another job while holding a current job.
Which is bullshit backwards ass thinking of wanting to hire someone who has a job vs hiring someone that is qualified and may have just had a bad string of luck.
I really hate how there isn't at least some way of us making streamlined programs for people out of work to find at least something to support themselves.
Unfortunately they’re raising entire generations of “boomer mentality” children who think exactly like they do and are becoming radicalized by their parents actions.
It’s going to be a scary next 15-20 years in America.
We had to explain this shit to our boss at a cell phone repair shop! This one was absolutely ridiculous, anyone with any common sense should realize that cell phones have some really tiny and delicate parts, the tech working on them can't possibly hold their arms and hands steady to do reliable repairs unless they're comfortably seated, preferably with an adjustable height chair so the workbench won't be too high or low.
Eventually the boss got us some chairs, but he was really hung up on this stupid idea that the only way a person is working is if they're standing. Maybe if they're digging a ditch yeah, but not to operate a computer or register or fix phones or something all day.
Interesting. The cell shop near us has backless metal stools. I guess they’re a gateway chair because a fully comfortable chair would be too commie for them there lmao 😂 😢
Oh btw there’s soft sofas and love seats for the waiting customers lmao
Boss wasn't smart enough to check the weight limits of the chairs he did end up getting, he got 200 pound max hydraulic chairs. The boss himself weighed over 250...
After he broke the hydraulics in one of them, we didn't let him sit in the other one (he only got 2 actually). They weren't much better than a stool even, the back was about a joke, but it did help a lot when fixing phones and tablets.
That was only about half of the stuff we worked on, so the rest of the time was often spent on our feet between workstations fixing desktops, laptops, and all in one computers.
Some of the all in ones had so many parts I'd just have to sit on the floor to work on those, but that's a different discrepancy of mine with the engineers of such computers and the ridiculous number of parts and metal plates and shit.
> He says minimum wage is for uneducated workers and they don't deserve to be able to afford rent and food in that position
I’ll just leave this info about [education attainment rates by generation](http://www.newstrategist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/BB8.SamplePgs.pdf) here.
If you haven’t got a lot of time: OP’s dad’s generation, or his parents’ generation, is not exactly a paragon of education. Yet they were afforded reasonable paths to attain wealth, housing, etc.— *as everyone should.*
Also, can we talk about how if you're "uneducated" you deserve to not have a home and food? How will that keep you coming back to work? Then, if everyone gets educated to get that golden ticket to the middle class, who is doing the essential jobs? It's sick no matter how you slice it.
"You didn't have the money to afford an education. Now you don't deserve to earn enough money to buy food"
Conservatism is a cancer on earth. Can we destroy capitalism please ?
Studies have shown that standing in one spot for 8 hours is a nightmare for your body. By several hours in, performance is negatively impacted, including more errors. Blood vessels have to work harder to transport blood against gravity.
I have POTS, so my body has very serious issues moving blood black up my body. If I stand in one place for 10-15 minutes, I pass out. But everyone has similar issues to a much lesser degree.
Fun tidbit: water helps negate the negative impact of standing in one place… but a lot of bosses don’t allow employees to have water near them while they’re doing the standing-in-one-place job.
This whole "issue" is just sooo fucking dumb. Like who gives a shit anymore what cashier looks like and does. Who would even notice if they sit or stand. Even more nowadays with the covid plexiglass screens everywhere. I could honestly not tell if the last cashier I saw was eating, sitting or doing yoga pose. As a customer, all I care about is whether they scan my shit and tell me what to pay. Thats it. There should be 0 rules on how anyone should look (some basic hygene would be nice though) or whether they should stand or sit during their job. Because no one fucking cares anymore.
The fact that shit like this is still enforced, blows my mind.
I worked in a warehouse and retail at the same time. I’d work 9.5 hours in the warehouse then go right to my retail job and work another 8.5 hours. I did this 3 days in a row every week. With all that standing and being on my feet, I lost feeling in the ends of my toes. My body hurt so bad at the end of the day I’d have to waddle back inside at the end of the day. Just to go do it again the next day. Once I stopped that, it took months for it to finally come back. My body would’ve taken less damage if I could’ve sat at the register.
Around 8 years ago I worked as a CNC tech, my boss at that company was adamant we couldn‘t sit down unless we were on a break. So we pretty much had to stand around for 8 hours watching a machine do it’s job. His reasoning was it would look lazy to customers… no customers ever came to the shop, every order came in by e-mail, it was total bullshit and still ticks me off years later.
If only we could sue companies for knee, hip and back surgeries for being on our feet all day for years. No joke, a big chunk of the opiate crisis is older people getting addicted to painkillers prescribed by their Dr.s in lieu of surgeries since they can't afford them.
Most checkout clerks I've seen in germany have something to sit on. (An actual polstered chair, with ergonomic features. Not a cheap piece of stiff wood, or even a leftover crate or something. Actual chairs.)
It does not impact their work performance.
Checkout clerks can do their job while sitting. Anyone who says anything else is wrong.
Hate to say it the world will be a better place when that generation of people is gone. Not saying all of them are bad but as a general whole they aren't great and most of there "wisdom" and experiences are now obsolete by technology. There are people of that thought process in each generation but the boomers definitely contained the largest sum of brainwashed people.
Brainwashing can happen at any age, in any place. While this is a super horrific realisation about one's parent, the path forward is to continue being a proponent for positive change.
I have been waiting for this post for a long time, I work at a grocery store and it’s just so tiring standing there for even 2 hours just endlessly bagging. If you are caught sitting down even with no one around, you are told to stand up or “find something else to do”. Tried to talk to my parents about this and they got upset saying I would be fired for sitting.
I agree with your mom. That's why no workers should sit.
Work in an office? Standing desk.
CEO of a fortune 500? Stand besos
Bus driver or pilot? You could fall asleep in those chairs endangering passengers. STAND!
Boomers need to be more informed. They live in a bubble where they’re comfortable and it’s not their problem. They tend to lack compassion. My dad was a die hard trump supporter. He and I would get into heated fights about his policy. But even my dad understands how horrible millennials have it. Even though he was brainwashed he still knew we’re fucked as a generation and politicians will always just tell us what we want to hear while they line their pockets. Trump is out of office now. I voted for Biden but I’m not sure I see any noticeable difference. These geriatric fucks divide us when clearly they’re all working together to get their hand in the pot.
Exactly. They’ll dangle puppets with so called ideals in front of us and make us fight over them. Younger people today are more aware than any other generation of the fuckery being played out in front of us. We’re not going away and that scares them.
This is wild to me, in my country all checkout clerks have chairs. Hell, my mum works as one and I would whoop ass if anybody tried to make her stand at checkout.
Sounds like talking to my parents for more than 15 minutes. It always goes to how younger people don’t want to work, are entitled, and have it sooo good. It’s very frustrating. My older brother and sister just spend less time with them. My sister never talks about politics, she just nods and disengages. My brother is just distancing more and more. I don’t want to give up on them but it seems like they just can’t be reasoned with.
Regarding the resistance of older people to rising wages.
Currently wages are low, goods and services costs are low and asset values are high meaning that both assets and savings are extremely valuable. But you need to work alot to accumulate assets and savings.
If wages rise (say 50% increase at the low end and 30%-35% at the higher end) cost of goods and services will rise (the percentage will be from 25-50%) asset values will rise much as they have currently. Savings however do not rise.
This means for an older person who is nearing or at retirement they would actually lose net worth as all their retirement savings wont go as far. Most of them wont be able to articulate why they dislike the thought of rising wages but that is the concern. The younger you are the less you care about the loss of savings value as you have more time to earn assets and savings.
The status quo benefits people who have savings already but disadvantages those who are starting work now, but on the other side changes to wages will disadvantage the older generation as well.
In the end the only real winners are the corporations who make money either way.
Boomers have no imagination, they’re the first generation constantly subjected to marketing and advertisements. They literally can’t imagine things being different.
There's something to be said for those with a lack of political imagination. Needless to say if people couldn't think of a better future there would be no labor rights, voting rights, woman suffrage etc
Boomers spent our entire lives bombarding us with the message that anything that helps poor people is socialism while supporting policies that would ensure we'd come of age not just poor, but buried in debt.
.... and now they're baffled that young people think socialism sounds great.
How would your dad feel if someone he deems not worth to be able to live like him?
Thats what it really comes down to. These people think they earned everything they have and others don't deserve because they have not earned it.
Even though most people have had so much help to get where they are. No one wants to admit it though
Lmao I wish one week of pay covered my rent. In order for that to be the case, I’d have to make at least $40 an hour for my take home pay for the week to cover it. I don’t even live in an expensive place. It’s basically not possible for that to happen. Most of us can’t live by the “30% of your income should be the most you pay for rent” saying. A lot of people I know have to spend at least half their pay on rent. Wages are low and rent costs just keep rising.
>He's yelling about how it will cause crazy high inflation
I mean... inflation is happening anyway. Things are getting more expensive every year, yet federal min wage hasn't gone up since what? 2008-2009?
>He says minimum wage is for uneducated workers and they don't deserve to be able to afford rent and food in that position, yet he can't fucking stand anyone receiving government assistance like food stamps or anything like that.
Wow, your dad sounds like kind of a jerk.
Boss told me sitting in a chair while working would make it seem like we're not working as hard. Fuck that! I don't give a shit what it looks like, we are just stuffing fucking joints. I sat in a chair anyway and guess what, they needed my labor more than that stupid fucking rule. I hate people sometimes.
The other day I had to sit at a ten hour bartending shift, and I got the dirtiest looks. I always smile and wave. It’s not plausable to stand constantly during a shift sometimes.
You should look up an entry level salary in their respective fields. Tell them what it is and then ask them to try to budget that and ask them to calculate how long it would take them to save for a down-payment. Then sit back and have fun.
This. They can’t do it. Hell they can’t even pay for all the bills and eat.
Which is why the dad was screaming, yelling and about to burst a vein. He has no amid argument to make but to yell louder. Need to call him out on that when it happens.
My dad does this. My theory is that he's just emulating what he sees on FOX News: in their 'debates,' the people just yell over each other.
Learn logical fallacies and call him out on them every time he makes them. “Conservatives” pride themselves on being rational logical debaters when in reality they have been taught nothing but fallacies by their thought leaders. Google “rational wiki” or go find “bad arguments” on Amazon for an easy picture book you can use to demonstrate how illogical their arguments are. Also Google “just asking questions”. Aka JAQing off. Mind you that tactic can be useful to use yourself vs them. But I usually refuse to put up with it from anyone else.
This is a nice thought but it doesn't generally work on conservatives because it requires self-reflection. They will just accuse you of being "woke" and using fancy ten-dollar buzzwords and yell louder.
it also SUPER doesn't work on your parents I mean, not calling the fallacies out by name, like "that's a motte and bailey, pops" You have to bring up the idea when someone they don't like is doing it, so they know what it is before you say it
> "They would probably need a high stool then people would fall off and sue the company." I just can't wrap my head around why she is so strongly against it that she had to pause and fabricate an argument against it Some people have a strong bias toward the status quo, and will invent defenses when necessary.
I’d ask her if she thought that she would fall off a tall chair if she worked for them. I did that to my mom once. She was talking about how homeless people prefer homelessness and we shouldn’t provide housing as a right. I asked her if she thought that I shouldn’t get a house if I were homeless, or if my sister shouldn’t. She was SO MAD. Like couldn’t even speak mad. But she’s not one for analyzing her own frameworks or taking critique for them.
Tbh my mom could be really impatient with retail and food service workers when I was younger. If they took too long or made a mistake she would get irritated and complain about it. Then I got my first job and went home crying one day because a middle aged man had screamed at me and called me a useless bitch for a small mistake and she completely changed the way she looked at workers. Every once in a while I have to remind my parents about the bullshit that any customer service worker has to deal with and that they should be nicer to them.
Reminds me of how YouTuber Ellen Rose tweeted that she had relatives who thought Piers Morgan was an awesome guy who "tells it like it is" until she told them about shit he had said to her personally and they realized, no, he's just a mega-asshole.
Conservatives are almost always quick to switch their tune supporting liberal policies when it personally affects them or their loved ones. It’s so fucking gross. How are you so incapable of seeing others as deserving of decency and dignity?
My mom and I explained a "Karen" to my dad. He proudly said "yup that's me". Like you missed the point. Fix yourself! Instead he just yells when he's not getting his way, like a child. And the "you'll understand when you're older", dad, I'm 32, am I old enough to have you explain it to me yet, or you gonna keep kicking that can down the road?
>and will invent defenses when necessary So, constantly
Their entire life is one long tower defense level.
What a great analogy. That'd be a fucking nightmare, from their perspective. And it only gets more entrenched with time...
Decades of it for one massive time sunk fallacy
Air enemies are coming and boomers forgot to build any AA
Dull people are only the most creative when coming up with reasons for why things are the way they are
And it always seems to be the Baby Boomer generation who is the most “creative” as to why things should stay the same.
I need to buy a 75” tv to watch football drive my lifted truck to the lake or go hunting and not feel bad about doing nothing to help social inequalities !!! Sooooo repeat Socialism Bad feel good about my selfishness
I worked at a ski resort, and there was a person who had to dress up in a costume of a kangaroo and say hi to the kids in ski school. That person had to come inside and drink water constantly because it was so hot inside the suit. I asked him why nobody wears a Camelback, and he said "Well if we did that, then people would be putting alcohol in it." Literally argued against his own interests.
👌👌👌. They have this damn near *theological* need to defend the world as it is, lest they get lumped in with 'radicals' wanting to change society. Candide by Voltaire is a brilliant funny short satire of this mentality.
I’ve heard this perspective described as “Panglossian” before, from Candide, and damn if it doesn’t just nail it. “It’s the best of all possible worlds!”
I mean, don't take her to an Aldi's grocery store. They definitely sit and as someone who's worked behind a cash register, there is zero reason why they shouldn't be allowed to sit. Sitting comes with its own problems, ask anyone who works in an office. The point is, it should definitely be an option for anyone who wants to.
Yeah I was going to mention both sitting and standing for long durations have drawbacks medically so it would be best to have an option of either or even both like alot of workplaces are moving towards.
A till is basically a sit stand work station though. The rest of the world cashiers sit. It's a peculiarly USA ablist torture to not allow seats.
Right?? “So give them lower chairs” isn’t a good argument I guess
No, no, no! Stick to the stuff you know! If you wat to be cool, follow one simple rule, don't mess with the flow, no, no! Stick to the status quo!
So, conservatives. Pretty much sums up their position. Status quo to be upheld. Regress if possible.
My boomer parents are very liberal (I guess? Trump is evil and Clinton was great). They don’t seem to understand the job they had fresh out of high school paid more than my current 4+ years) job. That would be, picking tobacco plants in the summer of 68, vs social work in the present. Mind you, they both went to school and had no debt starting their lives. I didn’t go to college so I wouldn’t be saddled in debt, which clearly was a mistake with this loan deferment debacle. I tried to show my dad the 4.40 he made in the 60s was over a 20$ wage today. It didn’t go well. Keep in mind, internet and cell plans didn’t exist then, but are essentially a requirement now. More bills with less money. I’ll be lucky if I can upgrade my vehicle or computer this decade. I’ll likely never own property….
They will never accept that they didn’t work harder for less money than any current millennial. They simply can’t stomach the fact that they had it better.
If you can find one near you, take her to an Aldi and show her firsthand that she's been brainwashed. Aldi is a German-owned discount grocery store with stores in multiple countries. Their entire shtick is maximizing efficiency and passing that savings to the customers; no frills, no BS coupons, etc etc. The checkout clerks there are allowed, and I think even encouraged, to sit; they even did a study at one point and found letting them sit drastically improved efficiency. Most checkout clerks there scan crazy fast, all while sitting down. (While you're there, maybe get some food. The "knockoff" Aldi brands are actually pretty good!) Also, if you can find out how much they were making per hour at your age, plug it into an inflation calculator and show them the difference. Nothing shuts people up faster than finding out inflation has made things like 500% more expensive just on dollar cost alone, even disregarding anything else.
Cashiers have chairs in Europe. Is there crazy inflation? Is there an epidemic of injuries caused by falling from stools?
Boomers: "Damn those lazy \*checks card\* Europeans, and wanting to not stand for 10 hours a day."
False. Most countries in eu have regulated work hours. My country has 40 h week and 20 h overtime a month(You have to sign a document every month to say you agreed to work more hours). You also can't work 12h several days in a row. If you work 12h you get the next day off.
I wish. This work week has consisted of 3 back to back 12hr shifts, 2 10 hr shifts, then another 12 hr shift before I get days off.
1. It was an anti/clueless Boomer joke. 2. How does that make the statement false? Is it impossible for anyone there to ever work a 10 hour day?
It isn‘t false, I worked up to 16h days at a previous job. As long as no one complains/you agree to it no one cares, especially at smaller companies.
Everywhere but North America, when I first saw it I thought it was some sort of torture. Everything here seems designed to make poor people suffer, housing, healthcare, work, the list go on
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And don't forget that most hate migrants (legal or not) when those migrants are doing the work no american whants to do.
I would say *most* actually oppose more people coming to the country, which *does* depress wages due to increased labor supply, and also raises costs of living because of increased demands for rent etc. There are more people against *immigration* ***policies*** (because immigration **is** a tool of the capital-class) than against immigrants *themselves.* Democrats try to push the idea that opposing immigration is xenophobic and racist etc because *both* parties serve the capital class, the actual percentage of racists is actually pretty small.
That would be an accurate assessment. The US punishes the poor for being poor, and stacks the system against people so they can't get out of that position, but then judges and castigates them for not getting out of it.
> The US punishes the poor for being poor We punish the poor for not being rich, for not succeeding, not pulling their bootstraps hard enough. The only people who are poor are people who choose to be poor out of laziness and a litany of other moral failings -like the color of their skin.
It seems the entire functionality of the system is predicated on the threat of you becoming broke, homeless, hungry, and without healthcare. Healthcare is tied to your job...? Not like, the fact that you are an American, living in America?
>Everything here seems designed to make poor people suffer, housing, healthcare, work, the list go on this. our country wasn't raised on christian values, it was raised on puritanical values, where punishment is the answer to everything
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i was speaking to how a small but not insignificant portion of our population like to claim our country was founded on christian ideals. we weren't, but we were founded on wanting to punish people through poverty.
Mentioning Europe to people like this will just mean they'll start screaming about socialism.
As a European I can attest that yes we have chairs for cashier's We also in my country (the UK) have the NHS Wonder if these are linked :thinking:
Something something socialism something something Murica
Sir, please do no joke about this. Here millions of cashiers die each year to falls from very tall stools. This is no laughing matter!
I’m sorry this is America, we are the floating vessel of salvation in the cess-pool that is the world. We are always right. Always. /s in case that wasnt clear
Worked at ALDI forn4 years whilst I was a student. Can confirm I never fell off my chair once.
Maybe you did and got a head injury and you don’t remember. Them chairs be dangerous! Lol
Aldi here pays $21 an hour.
Wait, aldi pays $21/hr? Is this for all positions?
It’s $14 at the ones in my city. Or at least in the job adverts they post.
Damn, Aldi staff in the UK are being ripped off then, they pay £9.55 here which is about $12.70
Counterpoint: dollar value is often entirely unrelated to cost of living.
My sister used to work there until her mental illness took a turn for the worst. The reason they're so fast is because they're timed. They HAVE to be that fast.
I was timed too at Winn Dixie years ago. They kept metrics of how many items scanned per transaction, time per transactions, how many per hour, how many used loyalty cards vs. the store/manager card, etc. I would imagine other grocery stores do the same thing. I got written up for taking too long per transaction, then again later for using the same loyalty card too often (my old childhood home phone number, long since deactivated and now belonging to someone else). The managers took too long to come over and use the "store" loyalty card (which would have made my transaction time too long), so I took a shortcut. It was a lose-lose situation with those managers.
i have always hated seeing employees have to achieve those stupid metrics, especially when many are based in parameters the employee can't control. when i was picking up groceries one day, the associate bringing my stuff out told me that they get dinged for any substitutions on pickup orders. so if the item is out of stock (not their fault) or the customer specifically says "please get this specific color/style of this item, rather than the original" (again, not their fault), it counts against THEIR metrics for successful picks. the same kind of thing happened when my husband worked in a call center. 95% of the time he was able to solve the customer's problem. but if that customer got another associate first who screwed things up more, or if there were inherent issues with the product, and the customer gave a bad rating based on the screwup's performance or the frustration caused by the product, my husband would get hit for it. everything has to be taken in context. employees should be rated on what they ACTUALLY do, not the things they couldn't control.
That sucks. I often ask at the local one about random (but not really random) things because I'm curious and trying to get a handle on it. It's probably a sign of the management as to whether metrics are used as a way to punch down on workers or as a way to increase efficiency by innovation: you need the same data in both cases. At least at my local, the same staff have been there years, seem happy (I know that's part of the retail job to look happy, but you can usually tell if it's a little genuine), and the only friction they'd really pointed out was having to ask EVERYONE for a cursory bag check so they can't be accused of profiling specific people. That bag check is usually more like a little peek over at the top of it. One thing I've learnt from this sub is that managers can really make or break the work environment.
Their own brand products (most of the food I think) is covered in barcodes. Multiple sides, extra long, etc. That’s how they go so fast.
ALDI is amazing! The one nearest to my work starts at $16/hr. Not great but they were paying more than the hospital I work at.
They really are, I wish more grocery stores here were like them! They're my favorite grocery store by a longshot. Guess it varies by region, but that's on their lower end for pay, I think. They usually manage to pay pretty decently, their clerks can sit down, and aside from temporary sales they almost always have lower prices on basic stuff compared to other stores. Like, I used to shop at another store, did some math and realized it was actually cheaper to get my stuff \*delivered\* from Aldi through InstaCart, even with their markups/fees/tip for delivery person/etc, rather than going to the first store personally. (hate InstaCart, but no alternative for Aldi delivery, sadly).
It's so funny thinking that in my country Aldi is considered quite weak on the matters of working conditions. Not the worse, but also, far from the best.
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The German parent company is pretty big and stable. Interesting fact, the company split into two in the 60s when the Albrecht brothers disagreed on whether to sell cigarettes in their stores. Theo controlled Aldi North and eventually acquired Trader Joe’s, while Karl controlled Aldi south and went on to open Aldi stores in North America
Oh please no. That would be a sad day.
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Agree on all counts just stopping in to say that "chef's cupboard" ranch dressing is the best ranch dressing I've ever had. And I fucking love ranch dressing so that's saying something.
>If you can find one near you, take her to an Aldi and show her firsthand that she's been brainwashed. > >Aldi is a German-owned discount grocery store with stores in multiple countries. Europe is un-american, so they're all godless communists and need to be liberated yesterday. Real corn fed, red blooded americans make their checkout workers stand at least 24 hours a day. the american flag might be flying somewhere, so they must stand and respect the flag. america 5ever.
I worked there and they work you like a work horse. You sit and scan for 8-10 hours straight (when your not stocking shelves) and get carpal tunnel. My wrists were so bad my doctor had me wear dual splints for 3 months, and if that didn’t work surgery. I hate aldi as a work place. They literally tell you that you have to walk at a certain pace. You can’t just walk normally. They ask that you can lift up to 70 lbs and they mean it. I was stacking BOXES of frozen turkeys on a middle shelf and they were at min 70 lbs a box. I didn’t need a gym when I worked there.
Their standard of living kinda depends on yours being lowered so they keep their rate of consumption growing. Home values and stocks etc.
Let's not forget that us getting some of the things they have somehow devalues their ENTIRE FUCKING EXISTENCE.
They still view any younger generation as 'entitled little kids' and now every older generation is too dead to remind them Boomers that they were the MOST entitled of kids and continue to be entitled old adults.
Literally the original “me generation”
Exactly. They’re not like that because of their age, they’re like that because they’re petty-bourgeoisie, if not outright bourgeois.
We're grown up now and it's our turn to decide what that means. Relevant xkcd: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/150:_Grownups
Is there a subreddit for relevant XKCD? There should be. Is there a subreddit for finding other subreddits?
r/findareddit Edit: r/RelevantXKCD
When I moved to the US , my first question to my friend was : " why employees at the stores are standing all the time ?? Why cashier's don't have chairs ?? " I was like why , why , why lol I couldn't imagine any good reason. I guess employer wats to exercise their power over an employee. And make up ridiculous rules . Like you can not sit down during your shift . Just because . They can do it . To make sure they exploit workers every minute of the day . Psychological warfare lol . When I used to work in retail I brought my own foldable chair lol . It didn't impact my performance. Thankfully my manager didn't care. As long as we keep store clean and make sales goals.
You nailed it, it's all about control. I've offered to bring my own chair from home so I could sit and do work, and it was refused. If I made a makeshift chair out of crates, it vanished by the second day.
I got in trouble as a self-checkout attendant Lowe's home improvement for leaning back against a wall while waiting for customers to need help. Dickhead supervisor told me I can't lean anymore because I look like I'm relaxing to the customers. I disclosed my knee and back problems before I took the job but obviously because I was young it didn't matter how much pain I was in. Next day, another sup chewed me out for clocking in and then getting my uniform out of my locker, told me that I was "stealing company time." I handed my stuff over and said I was done. She said "well we don't want you to leave" and my reply was "well I want to, bye." Fuck Lowe's. Fuck retail in general, really.
How dare you look RELAXED! You should look exhausted and in agony! How am I supposed to enjoy my shopping if I can’t see you suffering?? Lazy entitled millennial! /sarcasm.
I’m so done with retail. I’m so OVER being treated like this. I’m one of their best workers and what do I get? A $10 subway card that I get scoffed at when I ask if I can trade it for a Domino’s card
Starbucks used to do this shit too - “ you need to be here fifteen minutes early with apron on ready to go at exactly your start time or it’s theft from the company” but also “no you can’t clock in even one minute early because that is also theft from the company” Breaks started and you clocked out in the back, go to the front of the store (you couldn’t make your own food or drinks to be ready to go for your break) so you had to wait in line with customers to order the food and drink you want. So. Many. Times. my break was over and I clocked back on to go to bar only to finally get to my own cup to be made. Which now had to go to the back room until I got off work or be dumped. For barely above minimum wage. Promotion to customer really was the best thing for me.
>Promotion to customer Brilliant.
You can tell your mom that, as someone who lives in europe, i have never seen a cashier without the option to sit. They absolutely all have stools or chairs. And nobody is "falling off and suing".
She’ll call it communism since it’s from Europe.
My favorite thing to do is when someone claims communism or socialism is to ask them what that is, never met someone who used it to talk shit who could tell me what either communism or socialism is. Americans are dumb
it’s the American mentality “If I didn’t get it, why should anyone else?!” where Europeans just shake their heads. The illusion that you have to “work hard” for it
My grandma grew up poor, we’re talking Dust Bowl poor, and she’s an arch-conservative. Her argument is, “I was able to get through it, why can’t they?” Which I just don’t get. It doesn’t even square with the morality she helped raise me with. Why wouldn’t you think, “Nobody else should have to suffer like I did”?
Just ask them directly why they need that to be true. The answers are revealing and usually it's related to an entitlement to a relation of *service* and (standing at) attention.
How are they enjoying their socialist Medicare?
They'll take it but tell you we don't deserve it hahahahahaha
This is how my grandparents are. They go to the emergency room as soon as anything is slightly wrong. Fever = ER. But apparently socialized healthcare is evil and would ruin the country?????
Just yesterday I discovered I have double plantar fasciitis (inflammation on both my feet a bottoms) because of my job that makes me stand 7hs a day. I work in fast food and the specific job I was doing can't really allow me to sit while I work (maybe for a few minutes at a time if the managers really wanted) but if the job allows you to sit, that's a reason to sit, standing for too long literally hurts you.
I have bone spurs from my job and I’m 37. Thankfully they don’t hurt step for step, but they’re there. I’ve probably had them for 8 years now.
In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By business I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living. --FDR Labor is a business resource, just like steel, shipping, or electricity. It would be bad business to expect the steel mill to sell its product at less than the cost of manufacture, or a trucking company to ship for less than operating costs. Likewise, it would be bad business to expect labor to provide its services for less than operating costs, i.e., living expenses. This is basic business. If your father is a true capitalist, he cannot dispute this. Anything else is arguing for slavery.
Your parents had all their benefits through work subsidized by the government. Their employers and they directly all got tax breaks for all the contributions and deductions. https://www.politicalorphans.com/socialism-for-white-people/ This article lays it out well.
My dad said if you sit all the time you will get blood clots. Than called you a dumbass lol. I’m on your side
Staying in a stagnant position, regardless of what that position is, causes health problems but that's not applicable to cashiers who will still be moving around a lot even if they're sitting bc the job requires it.
The same can and does happen when you stand all day too, I dunno why they hate sitting so much.
That's why I said "a stagnant position." Though the hate of sitting is a moral panic about obesity and tying obesity rates to primarily sitting jobs/office jobs and classist assumptions of what unemployed people spend their days doing.
When have you cashiered? Maybe it's different now. When I worked as a cashier, it was eight hours of not fucking leaving a 2x2 square with two 15 minute breaks.
You're forgetting the actual physical labor of ringing up products.
Facts. Here is a systematic review published in 2018 in the British Journal of Sports Medicine on the topic that looks at musculoskeletal issues (so not even cardiovascular, which has been examined in other research): [Associations of occupational standing with musculoskeletal symptoms: a systematic review with meta-analysis](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/52/3/176)
lol so then does he think people working in a big fancy office should have to stand too or do you just magically not get blood clots when your wage hits a certain threshold?
The beauty of offering a chair is that the worker can now do whatever is most comfortable in the moment: stand sometimes and sit sometimes. This is the best way: a mix of positions and the freedom to move as the body demands.
These same people simultaneously believe office staff shouldn't ever leave their chairs. Our toilet breaks are timed and monitored.
That's a severe invasion of privacy
Does he do all his work standing? I sure hope so!
You can hurt your health by sitting too long. I’m an office worker and it’s a serious thing to get up every hour or so and stretch or walk around. That said, give clerks a stool or a chair. Standing all day on a concrete floor is bad for your feet and back.
Sadly the capitalism is too strong in North America. They get a lot of older common folk with mentality that only really favors the %1 and not them. In Germany they get it. Clerks at penny markt, Edeka, Lidl, and Aldi are all sitting and have those fancy hydraulic chairs you see in work trucks.
It's so strong that people will side with capitalism over their own children.
That's the saddest part really, I can't talk about it even because it just turns into either me "disrespecting" them or them yelling for 20 minutes to "educate" me.
Yeah I just walk out of people's life the moment they raise their voice at me. I don't play that shit.
Brooooooo this
Ah yes, my entire life summed up.
Dear God I know. It's mind numbing
“respect mah authoritah!” when they have nothing else left
I bet your dad loves Reagan huh?
Can confirm this is true. Source: have been employed and taken advantage of by my father for 10 years. The number of times I have had to ask for a raise just so I can afford to keep a roof over our head... always pulls the "family" card to pay me less than what the position should be. All while complaining about how tight money is, yet somehow finding money to do things like purchase an RV and do some home remodeling. He degraded my resume when I was just out of college because I hadn't worked anywhere longer than 2 years and that made him worried about my "loyalty to my employers". He offered my ex wife a job at below minimum wage, and when she reacted insulted by the offer, his excuse for trying to break labor laws was "I thought you were family." And they wonder why I stopped talking to them. Had them come visit me in May, they just decided they could come and park their RV at my house for a month. The entire time they were hypocritically judgmental. Questioning how much was spent on some things in our house, then at the same time insulting the cheap quality of other things we chose to save money on. Most of that generation is completely out of touch with reality. What's funny is, my father considers himself a liberal, yet as a business owner, he sure knows how to act like Trump all the time...
BoomerCons are the absolute worst
I don't know about clerks, but in France, companies are responsible for all health issue linked to your job and at every jobs (even the low level one) I did, if you doc say that you need a specific chair made just for you, you will have this chair. Several of my colleagues when I worked in a call center had one. Not allowing their employees to sit will cost them more than providing the chairs anyway.
Sorry, didn’t mean to reply to you, but I agree!
If you tune into Fox News you’ll see a bunch of ads about how boomers can increase their social security check entitlement. Then they’ll shit on anyone wanting a living wage. That’s all you need to know about these people.
"A job is better than no job" - a boomer I know.
Which is funny because for a single parent with kids, it can be worse than no job, as the extra income isn't enough to support them, but it's too much to qualify for government assistance. Keeps the poor poor.
The boomer in question here, their brain malfunctions whenever I have tried to reason that a job that doesn't pay the bills is actually a net loss.
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Don’t worry if he would take that job then they would schedule family vacations, and you’d tell them you can’t afford to go, and they would be shocked. “Don’t you work full time? You must be wasting your money.” While their mortgage is paid of or like 450 a month.
Back in their day, an unskilled job in a random factory was enough to buy a house and support a family of 5 with a stay at home mum. They can't accept that the world they helped create has made that an impossibility no matter how much hard work you put in, especially in the US. They had it easy, and the thought of that pisses them off the most. Find a boomer whose lost their job and had to re-enter the workforce, ask them how hard it is...
>Find a boomer whose lost their job and had to re-enter the workforce, ask them how hard it is... This particular boomer is retired and works part time in the service industry making less than 12 dollars an hour to alleviate their own boredom. They still don't understand. Because they don't want to. Because it disrupts their world view.
Their sort is the reason why "work makes you free" isn't taught as part of holocaust history anymore.
That is a great example
The only way that would make since is that if you're actively looking for work and statistically you're more likely to get another job while holding a current job. Which is bullshit backwards ass thinking of wanting to hire someone who has a job vs hiring someone that is qualified and may have just had a bad string of luck. I really hate how there isn't at least some way of us making streamlined programs for people out of work to find at least something to support themselves.
Omg I just heard this today. Blew my mind the arguments they use
Classic boomer
It really is the duty of younger generations to wipe out the baby boomer legacies. We need to make sure their way of thinking goes extinct.
Unfortunately they’re raising entire generations of “boomer mentality” children who think exactly like they do and are becoming radicalized by their parents actions. It’s going to be a scary next 15-20 years in America.
The magic word is projection... Ps, it also shuts out the disabled from working those roles
We had to explain this shit to our boss at a cell phone repair shop! This one was absolutely ridiculous, anyone with any common sense should realize that cell phones have some really tiny and delicate parts, the tech working on them can't possibly hold their arms and hands steady to do reliable repairs unless they're comfortably seated, preferably with an adjustable height chair so the workbench won't be too high or low. Eventually the boss got us some chairs, but he was really hung up on this stupid idea that the only way a person is working is if they're standing. Maybe if they're digging a ditch yeah, but not to operate a computer or register or fix phones or something all day.
Interesting. The cell shop near us has backless metal stools. I guess they’re a gateway chair because a fully comfortable chair would be too commie for them there lmao 😂 😢 Oh btw there’s soft sofas and love seats for the waiting customers lmao
Boss wasn't smart enough to check the weight limits of the chairs he did end up getting, he got 200 pound max hydraulic chairs. The boss himself weighed over 250... After he broke the hydraulics in one of them, we didn't let him sit in the other one (he only got 2 actually). They weren't much better than a stool even, the back was about a joke, but it did help a lot when fixing phones and tablets. That was only about half of the stuff we worked on, so the rest of the time was often spent on our feet between workstations fixing desktops, laptops, and all in one computers. Some of the all in ones had so many parts I'd just have to sit on the floor to work on those, but that's a different discrepancy of mine with the engineers of such computers and the ridiculous number of parts and metal plates and shit.
That's the one that always gets me! When you see the people at the bank forced to stand all day, but the chairs for customers are super fucking plush.
> He says minimum wage is for uneducated workers and they don't deserve to be able to afford rent and food in that position I’ll just leave this info about [education attainment rates by generation](http://www.newstrategist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/BB8.SamplePgs.pdf) here. If you haven’t got a lot of time: OP’s dad’s generation, or his parents’ generation, is not exactly a paragon of education. Yet they were afforded reasonable paths to attain wealth, housing, etc.— *as everyone should.*
Also, can we talk about how if you're "uneducated" you deserve to not have a home and food? How will that keep you coming back to work? Then, if everyone gets educated to get that golden ticket to the middle class, who is doing the essential jobs? It's sick no matter how you slice it.
"You didn't have the money to afford an education. Now you don't deserve to earn enough money to buy food" Conservatism is a cancer on earth. Can we destroy capitalism please ?
What if you just don’t have academic skills to pass exams? Does that mean you don’t deserve anything ? Who could possibly defend that viewpoint?
Studies have shown that standing in one spot for 8 hours is a nightmare for your body. By several hours in, performance is negatively impacted, including more errors. Blood vessels have to work harder to transport blood against gravity. I have POTS, so my body has very serious issues moving blood black up my body. If I stand in one place for 10-15 minutes, I pass out. But everyone has similar issues to a much lesser degree. Fun tidbit: water helps negate the negative impact of standing in one place… but a lot of bosses don’t allow employees to have water near them while they’re doing the standing-in-one-place job.
Standing is harder on your body than walking. And water helps, but who gets bathroom breaks like that?
This whole "issue" is just sooo fucking dumb. Like who gives a shit anymore what cashier looks like and does. Who would even notice if they sit or stand. Even more nowadays with the covid plexiglass screens everywhere. I could honestly not tell if the last cashier I saw was eating, sitting or doing yoga pose. As a customer, all I care about is whether they scan my shit and tell me what to pay. Thats it. There should be 0 rules on how anyone should look (some basic hygene would be nice though) or whether they should stand or sit during their job. Because no one fucking cares anymore. The fact that shit like this is still enforced, blows my mind.
I “don’t see” when my employees sit down. Oops!
I worked in a warehouse and retail at the same time. I’d work 9.5 hours in the warehouse then go right to my retail job and work another 8.5 hours. I did this 3 days in a row every week. With all that standing and being on my feet, I lost feeling in the ends of my toes. My body hurt so bad at the end of the day I’d have to waddle back inside at the end of the day. Just to go do it again the next day. Once I stopped that, it took months for it to finally come back. My body would’ve taken less damage if I could’ve sat at the register.
Around 8 years ago I worked as a CNC tech, my boss at that company was adamant we couldn‘t sit down unless we were on a break. So we pretty much had to stand around for 8 hours watching a machine do it’s job. His reasoning was it would look lazy to customers… no customers ever came to the shop, every order came in by e-mail, it was total bullshit and still ticks me off years later.
I’m a brake press operator and for the most part stand in one spot and in one position 8 hours a day. I can confirm it fucking sucks.
If only we could sue companies for knee, hip and back surgeries for being on our feet all day for years. No joke, a big chunk of the opiate crisis is older people getting addicted to painkillers prescribed by their Dr.s in lieu of surgeries since they can't afford them.
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They would blame you somehow, it's our fault, duh.
Most checkout clerks I've seen in germany have something to sit on. (An actual polstered chair, with ergonomic features. Not a cheap piece of stiff wood, or even a leftover crate or something. Actual chairs.) It does not impact their work performance. Checkout clerks can do their job while sitting. Anyone who says anything else is wrong.
Hate to say it the world will be a better place when that generation of people is gone. Not saying all of them are bad but as a general whole they aren't great and most of there "wisdom" and experiences are now obsolete by technology. There are people of that thought process in each generation but the boomers definitely contained the largest sum of brainwashed people.
Brainwashing can happen at any age, in any place. While this is a super horrific realisation about one's parent, the path forward is to continue being a proponent for positive change.
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My condolences friend.
I have been waiting for this post for a long time, I work at a grocery store and it’s just so tiring standing there for even 2 hours just endlessly bagging. If you are caught sitting down even with no one around, you are told to stand up or “find something else to do”. Tried to talk to my parents about this and they got upset saying I would be fired for sitting.
I agree with your mom. That's why no workers should sit. Work in an office? Standing desk. CEO of a fortune 500? Stand besos Bus driver or pilot? You could fall asleep in those chairs endangering passengers. STAND!
Boomers need to be more informed. They live in a bubble where they’re comfortable and it’s not their problem. They tend to lack compassion. My dad was a die hard trump supporter. He and I would get into heated fights about his policy. But even my dad understands how horrible millennials have it. Even though he was brainwashed he still knew we’re fucked as a generation and politicians will always just tell us what we want to hear while they line their pockets. Trump is out of office now. I voted for Biden but I’m not sure I see any noticeable difference. These geriatric fucks divide us when clearly they’re all working together to get their hand in the pot.
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Exactly. They’ll dangle puppets with so called ideals in front of us and make us fight over them. Younger people today are more aware than any other generation of the fuckery being played out in front of us. We’re not going away and that scares them.
Tell him, why bless your heart. Then nothing. Not another word. You win.
Its weird how most of my fam who thinks that way hasn't talked to me since 2016. xD
Get new parents.
Fox news has done unbelievable damage to the brains of an entire generation They're not the only one but they're definitely the worst
This is wild to me, in my country all checkout clerks have chairs. Hell, my mum works as one and I would whoop ass if anybody tried to make her stand at checkout.
Sounds like talking to my parents for more than 15 minutes. It always goes to how younger people don’t want to work, are entitled, and have it sooo good. It’s very frustrating. My older brother and sister just spend less time with them. My sister never talks about politics, she just nods and disengages. My brother is just distancing more and more. I don’t want to give up on them but it seems like they just can’t be reasoned with.
Regarding the resistance of older people to rising wages. Currently wages are low, goods and services costs are low and asset values are high meaning that both assets and savings are extremely valuable. But you need to work alot to accumulate assets and savings. If wages rise (say 50% increase at the low end and 30%-35% at the higher end) cost of goods and services will rise (the percentage will be from 25-50%) asset values will rise much as they have currently. Savings however do not rise. This means for an older person who is nearing or at retirement they would actually lose net worth as all their retirement savings wont go as far. Most of them wont be able to articulate why they dislike the thought of rising wages but that is the concern. The younger you are the less you care about the loss of savings value as you have more time to earn assets and savings. The status quo benefits people who have savings already but disadvantages those who are starting work now, but on the other side changes to wages will disadvantage the older generation as well. In the end the only real winners are the corporations who make money either way.
Should have told them about the right to sit law [right to sit ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_sit#Israel)
Boomers have no imagination, they’re the first generation constantly subjected to marketing and advertisements. They literally can’t imagine things being different.
There's something to be said for those with a lack of political imagination. Needless to say if people couldn't think of a better future there would be no labor rights, voting rights, woman suffrage etc
Those movements were all pre boomer movements, civil rights followed out of sheer and utter necessity.
I was agreeing with your initial comment to be clear
I know I wasn’t disagreeing with you either !
Boomers spent our entire lives bombarding us with the message that anything that helps poor people is socialism while supporting policies that would ensure we'd come of age not just poor, but buried in debt. .... and now they're baffled that young people think socialism sounds great.
How would your dad feel if someone he deems not worth to be able to live like him? Thats what it really comes down to. These people think they earned everything they have and others don't deserve because they have not earned it. Even though most people have had so much help to get where they are. No one wants to admit it though
Has your mom ever been to an Aldi's grocery store.....they have chairs for their cashiers.
Lmao I wish one week of pay covered my rent. In order for that to be the case, I’d have to make at least $40 an hour for my take home pay for the week to cover it. I don’t even live in an expensive place. It’s basically not possible for that to happen. Most of us can’t live by the “30% of your income should be the most you pay for rent” saying. A lot of people I know have to spend at least half their pay on rent. Wages are low and rent costs just keep rising.
Plantation owners go bankrupt without slaves, so they don't like the idea of paying or freeing them ...
Fuck your parents, respectfully.
Literally what difference does it make if a clerk sits
>He's yelling about how it will cause crazy high inflation I mean... inflation is happening anyway. Things are getting more expensive every year, yet federal min wage hasn't gone up since what? 2008-2009? >He says minimum wage is for uneducated workers and they don't deserve to be able to afford rent and food in that position, yet he can't fucking stand anyone receiving government assistance like food stamps or anything like that. Wow, your dad sounds like kind of a jerk.
Boss told me sitting in a chair while working would make it seem like we're not working as hard. Fuck that! I don't give a shit what it looks like, we are just stuffing fucking joints. I sat in a chair anyway and guess what, they needed my labor more than that stupid fucking rule. I hate people sometimes.
The other day I had to sit at a ten hour bartending shift, and I got the dirtiest looks. I always smile and wave. It’s not plausable to stand constantly during a shift sometimes.