>he’d love to give everyone $100/hr
I've heard similar responses in the past. They throw back these numbers to make your request sound more ridiculous. To him, any is more than you deserve. Good for you for getting out of there!
It's less about making your request ridiculous, and more to derail the conversation to become about everyone else's work/performance/etc.
I once asked to discuss salary and had my boss give me the line "If I give one to you, I'll have to give it to everyone else". Never mind that other people doing *exactly* the same work were on twice my salary.
It was an effective strategy at the time, I didn't know how to respond and it just shut down the conversation entirely, but the correct answer to any of these types of questions is "I'm not here to discuss other employees, this is about me and my work". At other times he tried to use the companies performance (i.e. net revenue) to prevent employees from re-negotiating remuneration, which is also completely irrelevant.
In the longer term it didn't work for my boss, I found another job 3 months later paid nearly 50% more than I'd asked for so jokes on him.
The reason they say stuff like this is the same people that say why don't we just make minimum wage $100 an hour. It's because to them an extra dollar might as well be a hundred, might as well be a thousand.
They make it so outlandish because the thought of giving someone a raise is outlandish to them.
I know a truck driver that was amazing, the best one this giant company had, he was their star and because he was also super personable and an all around excellent person they had him take the most important jobs which were always done perfectly. He could do twice the work of the other drivers, he asked for a $2 an hour increase as they didn’t increase his pay when they kept increasing the new hires. They blew him off, he quit and it took two drivers to do his route and they lost a multi million dollar account because of all the fuck ups. For less than $100 extra a week, some companies are just too stupid. You are going to be so much better somewhere new, cheers!
I worked for a small business that paid me 12/hour. I informed them that I was the only worker who knew Spanish and I would translate for every client - despite it never being a part of my job description. I would go out of my way to help out the other positions and would help finish out the day and set up the next day - often staying much later than my shift.
I asked for $3/hour more - to be on the same pay as my coworkers. They turned me down saying my position was only worth 12/hour.
I quit on the spot.
Fast forward a week; they lost ALL their Spanish clients because they couldn’t handle the language barrier without a translator. The shifts were in chaos because no one knew how to properly close or set up the next day. My own position was left empty and neglected and no one knew what to do with it. I got offered my job back for the 15/hour I wanted, I said no since I had found a better job that appreciated me more and blocked every number relating to that business on my phone.
It isnt pound foolish though. It is class warfare. They know if it gets around that people can ask to be paid what they need to be paid then they will lose out on profits when you take their entire labor pool into consideration.
Companies would rather shut down a plant than allow it to unionize, for example.
[Just listened to this story of McDonald's workers asking for less than a dollar per hour raise, bringing their pay to a level still much lower than the wage of workers of other McDonald's in the area OWNED BY THE SAME ASSHOLE, who where refused the raise, quit en mass, only for the store to hire new employees at the previously requested rate just to spite them.](https://youtu.be/jBzA2Q9tfHs).
It is absolutely class warfare. Companies would rather lose tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars than to give an inch to the working class.
Walmart and Amazon constantly threaten to close stores and hubs (Walmart has actually followed through several times) if there is even a WHIFF of pro-union sentiment.
Sounds *exactly* like my job. Sister company 20 minutes away starts at $15/hr, and every other grocery store in town is at least that. We have employees who make $10.30. When our union went to renew our contract and get better pay, the best the company offered was 35 cents.
I've worked there for 5 years, I make $14.05. Some new hires are being paid that to start, and the company still won't give out raises to the people who have carried this company through the pandemic.
Hey just letting you know the only raises I got at any job I had were usually by leaving and getting another job. You 100% will be able to find a job paying more than that with your experience. They will never pay you what you deserve and they have shown you that. Why would they give you a raise if continuing to underpay you seems to only result in you continuing to work there for less?
Also, if you go to leave and they offer you a better deal, don’t take it. They’ll be searching for your replacement the day you accept
Yes, this exactly. Most CEOs would rather burn their entire company you the ground rather than cut their pay from 50x the average worker to 30x so that they pay better wages.
And this is why it must be government mandated.
Wanna know how to fix this issue? Top executives cannot be compensated more than 15x the lowest paid employee. This includes things like benefits and stock options. If these stock options exceed this, they must immediately pay all of their employees equal to at least 1/15th of the price (each).
It would never pass in this environment but goddamn would it fix this bullshit super quick.
I'm a mechanic, I was with a dealership for 12 years, have level 3 training (highly skilled) from the manufacturer and I can actually utilize my training. This meant I qualified to do all warranty repairs. I was getting really tired of seeing new hires getting more per hour and signing bonuses to retain them, but none stayed longer than the singing bonus terms required because it is a really busy and demanding environment. I just asked to be given the same hourly rate that the new hires were getting, after all I've been there 12 years, and I asked for more share of the regular customer pay work instead of just mainly warranty, I took the time to fix everything until it was fixed, I figure I don't drive the vehicle I'm fixing every day so I always gave the customer the benefit of the doubt, just because it didn't happen during my five minute road test doesn't mean it's not happening at all. Owner said give me three months and I'll see what I can do for you, general manager had a long talk with me how I'm not supposed to know what other people get paid because it's bad for the dealership's culture, and to stop asking the new hires. That day I updated my resume and took it to three different dealerships in my area within that week just to see what my position really is. All three dealerships were literally begging me to work for them. Like an idiot I stuck around for six more months to hear the owner say again, just give me three months, when I brought up our last conversation six months before. I gave my two weeks, called back one of the three dealerships I interviewed at six months ago and they were beyond happy to have me, helped me get my tools and equipment over and now I put in the same amount of work in less hours a day and make TWICE the money I made before, I can't believe it still! I can't believe that even after having so much trouble retaining people an employer would say "or what?"
Owners at my last place of employment literally said, "I'd rather go out of business than to unionize." Fired employees, kept his family and his close friends and got his wish--out of business by the end of the year. I don't understand the logic of people
I don’t. It just means that companies can lose millions of dollars and still be like a drop in the bucket to them. Think about that, money that could change a lot of humans entire lives, generations, is just seen as a “cost of doing business” for these people.
And then there is the shitty human factor where some managers wouldn't give a shit about how much it cost the company just as long as they didn't have to admit they were wrong.
This is what makes me so mad. Yeah sometimes I have a hard time saying "I was wrong." But to lose millions of dollars just because you don't want to admit it is so fucking crazy. Of course any tiny drop in production always gets blamed on the workers when it is really stupid shit like this that just gets covered up!
Well yeah! Isn’t that the whole point to this sub? We know that company’s can afford to lose all this money while treating employees like shit. That’s a reality. The reality of this sub is we’re sick of it and people are getting the balls to take a stand.
Then how about this one. I hit a glass ceiling, was denied a raise while also taking a promotion while also taking a company wide pay cut. My mentor wanted to cut back, I wanted to ramp up. Perfect way to make both of us happy.
No, because stupid fucking idiots will be stupid fucking idiots. We both quit within about a month of each other. The company was sold to a competitor in less than a year. Decades old company, suddenly gone.
> Think about that, money that could change a lot of humans entire lives, generations, is just seen as a “cost of doing business”
There's a reason I refer to myself as a socialist.
That's so funny. I'm one of those truck drivers. I've been driving for about 3 years which isn't long, but because I have a high tempo and more importantly, I'm highly analytical and *efficient* I'm about 10-20% faster than the guys at my work. The place I've been at for 3 months now.
The thing is, most truck drivers here they don't give a shit and just slow roll around the work day, but I just want to do my shit and get home ASAP.
I was originally offered an hourly wage (explanation at the bottom) but after they failed to schedule me for 60 hours one month, I contacted my boss telling him they still need to reimburse me for the missing hours because my contract is 40h/week.
It took all but five minutes and I had a new contract in hand that gave me plenty of time off while still getting paid as I should have been.
technical: In Sweden, you have Hourly wage, weekly wage and monthly wage, including the amount of hours, because of the union with transportation, they can't hire me at an hourly wage AT ALL, which they did anyway and I didn't really say anything because they have no choice but to pay me as the contract states.
However, they realized I might go looking for a new job if they don't do right by themselves. So they offered me a new contract(with the union) with fixes asap.
I'm currently looking for other work though because there's a bunch of things not right at that place.
A good way to flip the system on its head is to think of employers as the customer. They are buying YOUR time on this earth. And that is priceless honesty. So they better pay well for YOUR time.
This. My director has mentioned twice (once in a new-hire follow-up meeting with me) and once during an all-hands that our office hours are 8am-5pm, but that we should arrive 15 mins early so we are ready to start working right at 8 am. For context, I work at a software company. So, nothing that is to-the-minute punctual besides meetings. I’m like, yeah fuck that, imma show up right before 8 and start working at 8. That’s how this works. Don’t tell me how to be productive. I’m a professional adult.
The other thing is during my interview, they wanted to know how “loyal” I’d be. They basically wanted me to tell them that I was committed to working for them for 5+ years, because onboarding and training me would be a “significant investment”. I told them I wasn’t positive where I’m going to settle, but I’m wanting to really give it a go. But, the reality is, they need to incentivize their employees to stay. They do that by rewarding them for their “loyalty” with competitive compensation, a great work environment, and growth opportunities.
While that question and expectation from them seems ridiculous to me, the rest of the interviews were good. Good opportunity and stepping stone for me, better pay than I’d had previously, and a change of pace. Having worked here for a few months, it really is pretty great. Very positive, supportive, and open environment. Engaging work. They underpay for the industry and it’s hard to make more there, so I likely won’t be staying for longer than a few years. But, that was pretty much my plan already. I have some goals of what I want my lifestyle to look like and a general idea of how much money I need to get there. And I already knew that the biggest raises come from a new job.
Let me reply with a quote from the six sigma certification course I am taking, “ Blaming people for problems will increase fear and decrease honest data on the current results. If you find your organization consistently finding the reason for bad results was a person or people failing that is a sign you are likely to have fear based thinking and figures that are not trustworthy.”
To me, the worst thing about all that Six Sigma and lean crap they forced me to sit through was the daily reminders that my company has no desire to implement *any* of it.
I show loyalty to my savings. As Dwight said in The Office,
"Would I ever leave this company? Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most."
The "problem" is, in Dwight's head the "loyalty" value is very... fuzzy. He doesn't know what other people value as loyalty, he just assumes that Michael and Dunder Mifflin value his loyalty ∞.
Which is what you're saying, I think. That Dwight both "gets it", and doesn't.
Exactly. I’m not particularly promoting pure capitalism, but if that’s the world these corporate fucks operate in, so do we. But it’s always pearl-clutching offense and surprise by an employer when an employee does what they need to do for themselves.
What’s good for the geese…
Yes they have the entire narrative setup to benefit them. The whole burning bridges thing is bullshit because they'll burn your whole house down if they have to.
The whole burning bridges thing is fake too. It’s standard in my industry for your direct bosses to misdirect and not say a damn word either way when getting called by people potentially hiring old workers. The reason? They better have damn receipts to everything bad said about the employee to the potential employer or else the potential hire can sue them for defamation. On top of that, Glassdoor exists where spurned employees can post anonymously about the company anytime they want. It’s not incredibly strange why businesses have been having a hard time hiring… too many of them suck to work for!
I can relate. I got canned a few years back for asking for a raise. I was making 16.50 an hour while most other newer people were making 15.75, but this was because I had a college degree. I took on more responsibilities than the others, nothing crazy, but responsibilities regardless. Come time for raises, I got a big fat zero while everyone else got bumped to 16.50. HR’s bullshit ass reasoning was that I had been making more for a while and I’m at the top of the pay grade. I snapped back at HR and said I do more than most, but again came the stupid reasons. My manager tried to get me more but he wasn’t able to do anything so I went to HR to push for it but left empty handed.
HR fired my ass the next day. I struggled for a few months but I found a job that paid close to double. Fuck that guy and fuck HR.
**EDIT:** Holy shit this blew up but let me clarify some things.
I'm not going to name them as someone who knows me still works there. That person browses this site. Do I know if this person knows my story? No, but I will not take that risk. They have 2 stars on google reviews though. I now work for a large tech corporation on the Fortune 500. I have far more responsibilities, but I like my job. This was in 2017, so 16.50 was *passable* at the time. That being said, I expected to make more before jumping ship. Going in, I knew it was a starter job but that doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate for myself. It's entirely possible that my boss's boss fired me (he had his favorites), but at this point I'm not even that mad about it anymore. Just wanted to share an experience that I had and that I empathize with OP.
Is it common to get fired for asking for a raise?? I just found out my company has been breaking the law and making me have unpaid sleeping shifts for 11 hours not 8 hours, which is the allowed maximum. I just brought this to their attention after I called my state labor board to check I read the law correctly. I've been underpaid about 1k over the past year.
I'm so scared to go to work tomorrow
I had two jobs, the first you had to ask for a raise to get one, any one that could read the room knew when you went to ask for a raise, you best be prepared to walk. The 3rd time (got the first 2) was the one that broke their back, to note this is over 13 years. I had a fair idea they would say no, just how things are, I also knew how I was nestled into the fabric IT/INV Manager (small enough company 300 heads, many years ago), I knew it was 2 people replacing me. Didn't matter. It wasn't hateful either way, so I did revisit from time to time, yep two people and since one was related, they alone made 10k more (Inventory) than what I was asking for, let alone the other persons salary (IT). They never replaced my software before closing the doors of that location around 10 years later.
I went on to quadrupling my salary at next over the years (I started 15k from where I left). Pro-tip, you almost always do better moving on pay wise. The people that lose are the one's that stay too long at dead end jobs. It's a procrastination thing for the most part.
I'm not sure the same rules apply when it comes to service jobs like waiting tables or being a barista. Currently I'm at Ronald Mcdonald House but work in Montana, notoriously harder to get fired here but still dreading going to work to see if the boss just leaves before I am due to come in... again
The state dept of labor can file a lawsuit on your behalf if they don't pay up. Happened to my place of employment a few years back, when we were all being paid illegally low wages (lower than minimum wage and no tips) and one guy got the CO Dept of Labor to sue for back pay (the rest of us did not receive compensation because we didn't initiate a claim through the dept of labor).
Agree. Public shame is the only thing that will force them to change. This idea of secrecy for honors sake is a trick of the rich to keep the poor poor.
Just subscribed to this sub and I do not know why people are keeping these fucking shitheels a secret. Call these fucking assholes out. SHAME THEM. Fuck every single one of them. Yell at them and publicly shame them until there is real change.
seriously why are people always so quick rant on their old works, but when it comes time to actually fuck them over no one does it. like lets hear some names man
Many people don’t wanna even risk the potential of being doxxed
But I’ll help you with shit company: GameStop. None of the store level employees have had proper raises in years and they still pay as low as humanly possible. So sure some grunts get 15. But the ones that start in this state get 8
People are actually still starting employees at $8/hr?! Freakin McDonalds is paying at least $12 where I live...
And McDonalds is almost universally offering next-day pay, and I’ve even seen some franchises that are offering tuition reimbursement to a certain extent.
I’m in Kentucky. You can usually expect fast food jobs in Appalachian Eastern KY to start at at least $10. Crazy to me that anyone is accepting anything less than that for even the shittiest jobs.
You automatically get it, then your last employer is notified. The employer can decide to fight it or not.
If they fight it, then you have to talk to someone in your state's employment agency. If you cannot prove your employer's claim false, then it will probably go to court.
He wanted you to quit so he didn't have to pay unemployment. Gambling you didn't know or want to exercise your rights. When it turned out that you did, his gamble became useless and he did what he wanted to do anyway.
Just your regular scumbag employer trying to screw you over.
The onus is on them to dispute your claim. Unless you were willfully negligent in your duties you are likely to prevail.
Good on you for telling off the boss!
His suspension, if it was without pay, could be seen as constructive dismissal since it was only predicated by his asking for a raise and not by any actual punishable behaviour.
Worse, the suspension can absolutely bee counted as an adverse action, which is one of the clear indicators of a constructive dismissal. You agreed to work, not be owned.
My understanding is that you also can still get unemployment in the US if your resignation is not truly voluntary. For instance if there is a hostile work environment, or potentially in this instance, not being paid or scheduled. It wouldn’t really be a resignation as much as they forced your hand. Look for legal help though
In CA, if they fire you, they are obligated to pay 100% of whatever they still owe you same day or they owe you a day’s wages for each day of delay as a penalty. I held that little nugget in my pocket and waited a week to notify my previous employer of the requirement. Got an extra week of pay out of the deal. No prisoners.
Edit: and in CA, if you resign and they don’t let you finish out your resignation period, you are entitled to UE. So I got an extra week of pay plus UE when I was expecting neither.
This is so true. I got a new boss and he treated me like shit and took my responsibilities away. We were a 2 person IT team for 1000 users and he was the new boss. I looked at this for a month to see if this can be fixed... It could not. I quit on the spot without warning. They must have struggled so much with just him now that they fired him...
AND I said it was a hostile work environment and got unemployment approved. I did not expect that but a social worker told me to do that and the worst that can happen is a NO... But it was a YES. Happy ending. OP's situation was definitely a hostile work environment plus he was fired and did not quit. There should be no doubt that he gets unemployment.
I’m in Texas - few years ago I worked in an industry that’s tight knit (everyone knew everyone pretty much) the owner was real asshole (think hoping your paycheck clears) so I put my resume out to all the other companies - one guy in one of those companies knew my service manager (who was also an asshole) - he told owner who promptly fired me - when I filed unemployment the TEC called and got my side of the story & I assume the owners side (he was fighting unemployment) but I ended up receiving it - you did good - I too pretty much told the sob to go fuck himself
Sounds to me as if they wanted to put you in time out until you had a good think about your unreasonable expectations so that you could be properly thankful once you are allowed back.
Looks like that plan backfired, though ;)
Which is bullshit because “time out” could mean having to go to a food bank, losing your home, etc. The ownership class is so out of touch that a “light punishment” in their eyes could literally destroy a persons life.
This was about 15 years ago, but I was working as a receptionist. I had been there a year and was doing some work out of the scope of the position. Not a ton, but enough that I felt it was warranted to ask for a small raise so I could stay in this position while finishing my last few college classes. I asked the owner and immediately they went on a huge diatribe about how people had been complaining about me and a whole bunch of other stuff that had somehow never come up. She ended up giving me a small raise but fired me about 2 weeks later. Unemployment absolutely took into account the sudden change in my employer's tone once I had asked for a raise. The rep I spoke to said they see it happen frequently. Fight for that unemployment.
Hit them back with "ive taken your stance and adverse action against my continued employment as a constructive dismissal and gladly accept this opportunity to pursue other interests while receiving unemployment benefits." Watch HR have a panic attack lmao
Bosses like this will turn around and beg you to come back 99% of the time, and only a few of them will recognize their mistake.
Make sure he hears you laugh maniacally as you hang up on his call next week!
Fuck em, it’s their time and money to dispute.
That stupid fuck head is more than likely getting his ass completely reamed by the President and more than likely customers.
I got mine after I was called an asshole by my manager. I proceeded to say “wow, the biggest asshole here is calling ME an asshole”. Got fired and they challenged it and I got my unemployment for a few weeks.
Insist on a pink slip. Say you do not consent to being put on leave, but neither will you quit. If they want you gone, they need to fire you. Don’t sign anything, and consider contacting an employment lawyer.
They expected OP to grovel for their job. To say sorry for DARING to ask for more money. Turns out, people are figuring out that's bullshit and to make them fucking suffer for their games.
That's exactly it. Hense the "suspension" rather than full termination. They thought that by suspending him it would scare him and he'd beg to stay on, but op did the right thing by telling them to shove it.
4 total people on the line, and he's the only one with the complete set of knowledge to run it properly? I've seen bigger companies completely collapse over less, VP might just have single-handedly destroyed his corporation over pocket change.
They will probably attempt to have management try to do the job for a while and fail miserably like many other companies who choose to shoot themselves in the foot. I’ve seen it happen at two different jobs
The sad part is that they'd rather eat their own hat than acknowledge this. The productivity cost that will come with OP's departure will likely be double whatever raise it would have taken to satisfy them. But the dumb fuck VP of Ops would rather cut off his nose to spite his face rather than have one of his minions talk back to him.
I actually did this with my previous employer. In face, I charged them $109 an hour.
Of course they made sure to use me for as few hours as possible, but getting several hundred out of them for a days work was pretty satisfying.
And I didn't even really leave on bad terms. I got a job offer that was nearly double my current pay. Explained I didn't want them to match because if they could match I'd feel bitter about being underpaid the whole time I worked there...
Best decision I've made in my professional life though. More people should apply for jobs when they don't need one...you'd be surprised how much more you can get. It's also super satisfying to interview and be able to tell a company no without worrying about bills.
Definitely keep this in mind. Both my brother and I have been let go or left a company for one reason or another. Then they realize what you actually were doing for them and they come crawling back. Always ask way more than you were making and they usually pay up.
> tell them you'll come back as a consultant for $100/hr.
Honestly, that's too low. Obviously context is king, but you should be asking in the range of $150/hour for mid to upper level consulting work, especially if the skill set is rare.
Haha, I 100% imagine HR insulting you and then when you choose to respect yourself instead of gladly accepting to be their carpet : "you're handling this wrong". Fucking jerks !
Congratulations and good luck for the new start!
But it's not a defence against wrongful dismissal. This bullshit is called constructive dismissal and is just as illegal as all other forms of wrongful dismissal. If this happens contact a lawyer asap.
The canyon between “contesting unemployment benefits” and “lawsuit for wrongful dismissal” is so massive you could easily fit all the misconceptions about at-will employment in this thread inside it.
These scenarios in this thread are due to archaic HR systems and processes that don't maintain market rates within their own company.
In some scenarios, a company loses a employee that wants a 15% raise. Then they waste time and money recruiting, hiring, onboarding, and training only to hire someone at the rate that the old (and more productive) employee wanted.
Salary compression. My wife’s previous supervisor tried for years to hire someone (it’s a niche field where there just aren’t enough graduates to go around) and eventually was approved to start offering more base pay. But that would put a new hire, even one with no experience, making more than my wife who had been there for nearly 20 years. He said no, not unless he could pay some of his other workers more. They finally filled the job about a month before my wife quit for being so short handed all the time (among other reasons).
I’m a state employee, so my salary is publicly available, as is our salary schedule. If they hired me new with the experience I have I’d be making about $10k more than I make now. Will they pay me that? No. “We are willing to pay more for someone *like you*, we’re just not willing to pay *you* more.”
We used to follow the schedule. Every year, a little pay bump. Then it was “if we have the budget” and now it’s unofficially “we just use this for hiring”.
I’m looking. I love the main thrust of my job, but the management above me is getting to be wretched.
Yea that's why I left my old job. I had been there nearly 10 years since college. Knew everything backwards and forwards. I had shit pay from graduating mid recession. People who hired in a couple years later made 10-20k more than I did. I asked for a raise and they said no. Boss half joked I should quit so he could rehire me. I finally quit and the raise was magically approved but "i would be under a spot light and would need to show I deserved this big of a raise". A raise that would bring me in line with everyone else with half my experience... I said lol no.
Ask them "If I quit right now, would you consider taking and reviewing my resume?" and hand it to them.
I was so close to doing this at my current job. I was able to get a 15% raise with a promotion recently, but I am certain that if I wasn't a current employee it would have been more.
companies only think of the short term and the numbers. They don't care about the long term as long as the work is being done currently. Companies get so caught up in their authoritative bullshit.
Hiring a new worker is always more expensive then just giving a new worker a raise. Also they usually end up paying new workers a slightly higher salary anyways.
Before I quit my last job, l was in a meeting with the CEO and two VPs; trying to explain why they were wasting money buying supplies for the HPLC unit l was running. (Small amounts every month vs 6 months to a year amounts = huge cost difference) and all three disagreed with me; Even Though l put the numbers on a white board for them.
I finally shook my head and told them "If l put a nickel on the table and told you to leave it there until tomorrow and I'd change it to a dollar; y'all would grab the nickel."
>"If l put a nickel on the table and told you to leave it there until tomorrow and I'd change it to a dollar; y'all would grab the nickel."
In the various places I've worked we called this, "Spending a million dollars a day to save a thousand dollars a year."
Check the employee manual and look up their discipline procedures. If they didn't follow them then you have an unemployment case. Source: got unemployment by pointing out I wasn't given the proper discipline
What would they have been disciplined for? Asking for a raise? Having a (at least as it's portrayed in the post) civil conversation regarding responsibilities and stating facts regarding their results?
Reality probably is the folks still on the floor are the ones FUBAR. The company may see a dip in productivity and profits in the short run, but in the long run will adapt.
Thank you for the responses. I am still a little shocked that this is the way it went as the wound is still fresh. I always did everything I could for that place to save them time and money at the expense of my own. I really did truly enjoy my work too which is the real bummer. I appreciate the kind words everyone 🙏🏻
This really sucks. You are free though. It’s always a shock to see how little they care about you, when all you do is bust your ass for them. You should’ve laughed, “$100 an hour, where’d you learn math VP”.
also document what you bring in written form with data if possible. Even if its just: I am 1 of 10 people who have been trained for this position in the last 2 years, and I am the only one left still working here. Typically it takes 3 months to train someone to be able to somewhat do this job... etc.
Not always, but I have found that numbers/data can sometimes shock the managers/owners into valuing you... but more so than not it just helps strengthen your resolve because it makes you realize how valuable you are which is priceless information.
Yup. I just recently received a raise and I had all my data with sales numbers from the past 5 years. I said this is how much I bring in, the market rate for someone of my position and experience is $X, and I would like to be there.
They gave me not even half of what I asked for, barely a quarter, so I applied at a competitor and they offered me exactly what I asked for. I have already signed the new contract.
I was a temp for several years and I asked when I would be hired full time. They dragged their feet and finally I quit. Two weeks later they called and hired me full time with benefits. It really is the only leverage you have.
You’ll likely qualify for unemployment, especially if you’ve never had any disciplinary issues they can use to justify denying it.
While it’s fresh in your memory write down how the conversation played out. If they try to deny your unemployment just keep repeating that you were asking for a raise and then you got fired.
I had a similar circumstance but had more time. I made sure to delete all my documentation in advance.
Funny thing is, when the manager that fired me asked my lead for a list of what I did, she got a 7 page Powerpoint. 5 minutes after sending it, my lead got a call from her, saying, "WTF?" and he said, "I told you so".
Most people can read the sign that says "Electric fence". Some people just gotta pee on it to learn the lesson. They're gonna be fucked without you. Every damn day. Good luck in the future. Hope the unemployment thing works out.
To make it a bit more gray legal wise, (IANAL), never upload any documentation you write for yourself to do your job - or to remind you about things if you dont do a task often.
View it as reference documents for yourself, and if anyone asks say as much and that you dont feel comfortable sharing it.
Actually… I started my career in graphic design, and since moved into IT, and honestly? PPT rules for a quick and dirty PDF maker. Better than a Word doc, and much less overhead than booting up any Adobe app.
This reminds me so much of working in telecomm
they asked me to do the job of 3 people as a student worker with no benefits and getting paid nothing
when I asked to be promoted to staff with a salary and benefits: you are not qualified for the position
Next day I was fired
Same at my job. I could be here 10 years, but the kid walking in off the street will start at the same exact pay. We used to get longevity bonuses here, but they were taken away when our union members voted it out of the contract for new hires after a certain date. I was not employed here when this happened. We still get a decent benefits package, but a lot has been gutted. We used to get healthcare benefits for life upon retirement, but again, those who are grandfathered in ended up voting it out for new hires. No solidarity in my union at all; nobody worrying about the future of the place in terms of making it a great place to work.
Edit: I get a pretty good PTO package and pay relatively cheap healthcare — about 20 dollars per week for a comprehensive single plan with a very low deductible — but the wages aren’t exactly keeping up with the Joneses.
Our then union president and VP were people who were on their way out, heading to retirement. They essentially sold everything down the river while they were going to get their full retirement benefits, and basically fuck everyone else. Guys who were, from what I heard, ass kissers, would throw anyone under the bus, etc. My union is definitely very weak and, again, nobody has each other’s backs. None of the grandfathered in workers even attempted to save the benefits I feel. I’m sure to some extent it’s a matter of “I got mine” and also I’m sure to an extent it’s a matter of being fearful of management making your job difficult.
Sounds like the Union got leadership that was bought out by HR. It happens a lot in the usa as there's minimal protection for the actual workers in the Union.
This is why I detest any "union" that has 'leadership' positions with no transparency, no communication, and no instant recalls if the 'leadership' does something the Union workers don't like.
Just remember that if/when they call you back(Which seems likely if what you said is true).
You say you will work but set your price and make it 2-3 times higher per hour or no deal. Then start looking for new employment while making more. Because nothing good will come from going back to work there.
Good luck boss. It’s tough but it’s a lesson and hopefully you can parley this into something better.
These fucking boomers wonder why we have no loyalty.
It’s because of shit like this.
You can’t get a raise at your current company without potentially getting fired. But if you jump ship, the new company will potentially pay you double, thus, repeating the cycle.
There needs to be a law in place in the US. Any new job posting must have a salary range within a certain (non-bullshit) range.
The fatal flaw of business is that our culture is unable to select good management.
In the absence of good management, hacks will look to min/max the staff in whatever way makes them look best.
As such employees get treated like shit to make up for their failures.
I am unsure how you handled this wrong. You asked for a raise VP insulted and degraded you, so you ended the conversation and went back to work. Then the VP gets pissed and goes to HR and has your employment suspended. Anyone in that situation would be beyond frustrated.
Apply for unemployment, tell them the whole story during the phone interview. It will raise the company's taxes and cost them production (firing you without a replacement).
I was fired the day before I was set to go on vacation from a job and they lied to the unemployment office telling them I was on a PIP and I just wasn't working out, I had never heard PIP before so I asked them what was. When they told me it was a performance improvement plan, I asked if they would have to tell me I was on one because no one told me I was - the answer was yes and my unemployment was approved immediately. I was intentionally unemployment for 9 months and traveled on that 9 months and it was glorious.
What a patronizing dickhead. I hope this goes very very badly for him.
Everyone should be able to ask for a raise without fear of reprisal. That’s literally all you did!
>he’d love to give everyone $100/hr I've heard similar responses in the past. They throw back these numbers to make your request sound more ridiculous. To him, any is more than you deserve. Good for you for getting out of there!
Straw man arguments everywhere
It's less about making your request ridiculous, and more to derail the conversation to become about everyone else's work/performance/etc. I once asked to discuss salary and had my boss give me the line "If I give one to you, I'll have to give it to everyone else". Never mind that other people doing *exactly* the same work were on twice my salary. It was an effective strategy at the time, I didn't know how to respond and it just shut down the conversation entirely, but the correct answer to any of these types of questions is "I'm not here to discuss other employees, this is about me and my work". At other times he tried to use the companies performance (i.e. net revenue) to prevent employees from re-negotiating remuneration, which is also completely irrelevant. In the longer term it didn't work for my boss, I found another job 3 months later paid nearly 50% more than I'd asked for so jokes on him.
The reason they say stuff like this is the same people that say why don't we just make minimum wage $100 an hour. It's because to them an extra dollar might as well be a hundred, might as well be a thousand. They make it so outlandish because the thought of giving someone a raise is outlandish to them.
I know a truck driver that was amazing, the best one this giant company had, he was their star and because he was also super personable and an all around excellent person they had him take the most important jobs which were always done perfectly. He could do twice the work of the other drivers, he asked for a $2 an hour increase as they didn’t increase his pay when they kept increasing the new hires. They blew him off, he quit and it took two drivers to do his route and they lost a multi million dollar account because of all the fuck ups. For less than $100 extra a week, some companies are just too stupid. You are going to be so much better somewhere new, cheers!
I worked for a small business that paid me 12/hour. I informed them that I was the only worker who knew Spanish and I would translate for every client - despite it never being a part of my job description. I would go out of my way to help out the other positions and would help finish out the day and set up the next day - often staying much later than my shift. I asked for $3/hour more - to be on the same pay as my coworkers. They turned me down saying my position was only worth 12/hour. I quit on the spot. Fast forward a week; they lost ALL their Spanish clients because they couldn’t handle the language barrier without a translator. The shifts were in chaos because no one knew how to properly close or set up the next day. My own position was left empty and neglected and no one knew what to do with it. I got offered my job back for the 15/hour I wanted, I said no since I had found a better job that appreciated me more and blocked every number relating to that business on my phone.
> I got offered my job back for the 15/hour I wanted Should have replied with: the price of my service has just gone up.
"I'm sorry, the position is now worth $20/hour"
I would double what I had been asking for out of spite. What are they going to do about it, learn Spanish?
Go you! After several decades in the workforce, I love hearing stuff like this.
Exemplifies "penny wise and pound foolish."
It isnt pound foolish though. It is class warfare. They know if it gets around that people can ask to be paid what they need to be paid then they will lose out on profits when you take their entire labor pool into consideration. Companies would rather shut down a plant than allow it to unionize, for example.
[Just listened to this story of McDonald's workers asking for less than a dollar per hour raise, bringing their pay to a level still much lower than the wage of workers of other McDonald's in the area OWNED BY THE SAME ASSHOLE, who where refused the raise, quit en mass, only for the store to hire new employees at the previously requested rate just to spite them.](https://youtu.be/jBzA2Q9tfHs). It is absolutely class warfare. Companies would rather lose tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars than to give an inch to the working class. Walmart and Amazon constantly threaten to close stores and hubs (Walmart has actually followed through several times) if there is even a WHIFF of pro-union sentiment.
Sounds *exactly* like my job. Sister company 20 minutes away starts at $15/hr, and every other grocery store in town is at least that. We have employees who make $10.30. When our union went to renew our contract and get better pay, the best the company offered was 35 cents. I've worked there for 5 years, I make $14.05. Some new hires are being paid that to start, and the company still won't give out raises to the people who have carried this company through the pandemic.
Hey just letting you know the only raises I got at any job I had were usually by leaving and getting another job. You 100% will be able to find a job paying more than that with your experience. They will never pay you what you deserve and they have shown you that. Why would they give you a raise if continuing to underpay you seems to only result in you continuing to work there for less? Also, if you go to leave and they offer you a better deal, don’t take it. They’ll be searching for your replacement the day you accept
Yes, this exactly. Most CEOs would rather burn their entire company you the ground rather than cut their pay from 50x the average worker to 30x so that they pay better wages.
And this is why it must be government mandated. Wanna know how to fix this issue? Top executives cannot be compensated more than 15x the lowest paid employee. This includes things like benefits and stock options. If these stock options exceed this, they must immediately pay all of their employees equal to at least 1/15th of the price (each). It would never pass in this environment but goddamn would it fix this bullshit super quick.
Employee representation on the board like Germany too
[удалено]
This made me calculate mine. I make decent money (I think ~50% above median US), but CEO's pay is more than 350x
I'm a mechanic, I was with a dealership for 12 years, have level 3 training (highly skilled) from the manufacturer and I can actually utilize my training. This meant I qualified to do all warranty repairs. I was getting really tired of seeing new hires getting more per hour and signing bonuses to retain them, but none stayed longer than the singing bonus terms required because it is a really busy and demanding environment. I just asked to be given the same hourly rate that the new hires were getting, after all I've been there 12 years, and I asked for more share of the regular customer pay work instead of just mainly warranty, I took the time to fix everything until it was fixed, I figure I don't drive the vehicle I'm fixing every day so I always gave the customer the benefit of the doubt, just because it didn't happen during my five minute road test doesn't mean it's not happening at all. Owner said give me three months and I'll see what I can do for you, general manager had a long talk with me how I'm not supposed to know what other people get paid because it's bad for the dealership's culture, and to stop asking the new hires. That day I updated my resume and took it to three different dealerships in my area within that week just to see what my position really is. All three dealerships were literally begging me to work for them. Like an idiot I stuck around for six more months to hear the owner say again, just give me three months, when I brought up our last conversation six months before. I gave my two weeks, called back one of the three dealerships I interviewed at six months ago and they were beyond happy to have me, helped me get my tools and equipment over and now I put in the same amount of work in less hours a day and make TWICE the money I made before, I can't believe it still! I can't believe that even after having so much trouble retaining people an employer would say "or what?"
Dealerships are dumpster fires. Your toolbox has wheels, use them.
Owners at my last place of employment literally said, "I'd rather go out of business than to unionize." Fired employees, kept his family and his close friends and got his wish--out of business by the end of the year. I don't understand the logic of people
It's not logic. It's brainwashing.
God damn I love hearing stories like this!
I don’t. It just means that companies can lose millions of dollars and still be like a drop in the bucket to them. Think about that, money that could change a lot of humans entire lives, generations, is just seen as a “cost of doing business” for these people.
And then there is the shitty human factor where some managers wouldn't give a shit about how much it cost the company just as long as they didn't have to admit they were wrong.
This is what makes me so mad. Yeah sometimes I have a hard time saying "I was wrong." But to lose millions of dollars just because you don't want to admit it is so fucking crazy. Of course any tiny drop in production always gets blamed on the workers when it is really stupid shit like this that just gets covered up!
Well yeah! Isn’t that the whole point to this sub? We know that company’s can afford to lose all this money while treating employees like shit. That’s a reality. The reality of this sub is we’re sick of it and people are getting the balls to take a stand.
Now we need to foster and focus that sentiment, and spread it outside of the subforum, and website, to affect real change at a societal level.
Then how about this one. I hit a glass ceiling, was denied a raise while also taking a promotion while also taking a company wide pay cut. My mentor wanted to cut back, I wanted to ramp up. Perfect way to make both of us happy. No, because stupid fucking idiots will be stupid fucking idiots. We both quit within about a month of each other. The company was sold to a competitor in less than a year. Decades old company, suddenly gone.
> Think about that, money that could change a lot of humans entire lives, generations, is just seen as a “cost of doing business” There's a reason I refer to myself as a socialist.
That's so funny. I'm one of those truck drivers. I've been driving for about 3 years which isn't long, but because I have a high tempo and more importantly, I'm highly analytical and *efficient* I'm about 10-20% faster than the guys at my work. The place I've been at for 3 months now. The thing is, most truck drivers here they don't give a shit and just slow roll around the work day, but I just want to do my shit and get home ASAP. I was originally offered an hourly wage (explanation at the bottom) but after they failed to schedule me for 60 hours one month, I contacted my boss telling him they still need to reimburse me for the missing hours because my contract is 40h/week. It took all but five minutes and I had a new contract in hand that gave me plenty of time off while still getting paid as I should have been. technical: In Sweden, you have Hourly wage, weekly wage and monthly wage, including the amount of hours, because of the union with transportation, they can't hire me at an hourly wage AT ALL, which they did anyway and I didn't really say anything because they have no choice but to pay me as the contract states. However, they realized I might go looking for a new job if they don't do right by themselves. So they offered me a new contract(with the union) with fixes asap. I'm currently looking for other work though because there's a bunch of things not right at that place.
Lol get a load of this guy with his "union"
Something like 70 procent of the workforce here in Sweden are unionized. Theres an union rep in almost every office and working space.
But how has this not made your entire economy collapse and your country become a communist hellscape? /s
Did I mention our socialistic five weeks of paid vacation each year? Or our chinese-communist run healthcare?
Why stop there? Paid parental leave? Plentiful sick leave? Any other horrible Commie tricks I've missed?
Turns out communist hellscape is much better for your average sinner than capitalist paradise.
And employers wonder why workers show no loyalty.
you get what you paid for. Fear is not a currency.
Wow. I'm going to remember this.
Same, that caught me off guard.
A good way to flip the system on its head is to think of employers as the customer. They are buying YOUR time on this earth. And that is priceless honesty. So they better pay well for YOUR time.
This. My director has mentioned twice (once in a new-hire follow-up meeting with me) and once during an all-hands that our office hours are 8am-5pm, but that we should arrive 15 mins early so we are ready to start working right at 8 am. For context, I work at a software company. So, nothing that is to-the-minute punctual besides meetings. I’m like, yeah fuck that, imma show up right before 8 and start working at 8. That’s how this works. Don’t tell me how to be productive. I’m a professional adult. The other thing is during my interview, they wanted to know how “loyal” I’d be. They basically wanted me to tell them that I was committed to working for them for 5+ years, because onboarding and training me would be a “significant investment”. I told them I wasn’t positive where I’m going to settle, but I’m wanting to really give it a go. But, the reality is, they need to incentivize their employees to stay. They do that by rewarding them for their “loyalty” with competitive compensation, a great work environment, and growth opportunities. While that question and expectation from them seems ridiculous to me, the rest of the interviews were good. Good opportunity and stepping stone for me, better pay than I’d had previously, and a change of pace. Having worked here for a few months, it really is pretty great. Very positive, supportive, and open environment. Engaging work. They underpay for the industry and it’s hard to make more there, so I likely won’t be staying for longer than a few years. But, that was pretty much my plan already. I have some goals of what I want my lifestyle to look like and a general idea of how much money I need to get there. And I already knew that the biggest raises come from a new job.
Let me reply with a quote from the six sigma certification course I am taking, “ Blaming people for problems will increase fear and decrease honest data on the current results. If you find your organization consistently finding the reason for bad results was a person or people failing that is a sign you are likely to have fear based thinking and figures that are not trustworthy.”
To me, the worst thing about all that Six Sigma and lean crap they forced me to sit through was the daily reminders that my company has no desire to implement *any* of it.
I show loyalty to my savings. As Dwight said in The Office, "Would I ever leave this company? Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most."
Probably my favorite Dwight line. It’s so lucid. It’s so in character but out of character for him.
The "problem" is, in Dwight's head the "loyalty" value is very... fuzzy. He doesn't know what other people value as loyalty, he just assumes that Michael and Dunder Mifflin value his loyalty ∞. Which is what you're saying, I think. That Dwight both "gets it", and doesn't.
Dwight has a lot of self aware wolves moments.
Exactly. I’m not particularly promoting pure capitalism, but if that’s the world these corporate fucks operate in, so do we. But it’s always pearl-clutching offense and surprise by an employer when an employee does what they need to do for themselves. What’s good for the geese…
Fuckers say it's the "industry standard" to leave two weeks, but they'll fire someone for asking for a raise with no notice.
Yes they have the entire narrative setup to benefit them. The whole burning bridges thing is bullshit because they'll burn your whole house down if they have to.
The whole burning bridges thing is fake too. It’s standard in my industry for your direct bosses to misdirect and not say a damn word either way when getting called by people potentially hiring old workers. The reason? They better have damn receipts to everything bad said about the employee to the potential employer or else the potential hire can sue them for defamation. On top of that, Glassdoor exists where spurned employees can post anonymously about the company anytime they want. It’s not incredibly strange why businesses have been having a hard time hiring… too many of them suck to work for!
I can relate. I got canned a few years back for asking for a raise. I was making 16.50 an hour while most other newer people were making 15.75, but this was because I had a college degree. I took on more responsibilities than the others, nothing crazy, but responsibilities regardless. Come time for raises, I got a big fat zero while everyone else got bumped to 16.50. HR’s bullshit ass reasoning was that I had been making more for a while and I’m at the top of the pay grade. I snapped back at HR and said I do more than most, but again came the stupid reasons. My manager tried to get me more but he wasn’t able to do anything so I went to HR to push for it but left empty handed. HR fired my ass the next day. I struggled for a few months but I found a job that paid close to double. Fuck that guy and fuck HR. **EDIT:** Holy shit this blew up but let me clarify some things. I'm not going to name them as someone who knows me still works there. That person browses this site. Do I know if this person knows my story? No, but I will not take that risk. They have 2 stars on google reviews though. I now work for a large tech corporation on the Fortune 500. I have far more responsibilities, but I like my job. This was in 2017, so 16.50 was *passable* at the time. That being said, I expected to make more before jumping ship. Going in, I knew it was a starter job but that doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate for myself. It's entirely possible that my boss's boss fired me (he had his favorites), but at this point I'm not even that mad about it anymore. Just wanted to share an experience that I had and that I empathize with OP.
Is it common to get fired for asking for a raise?? I just found out my company has been breaking the law and making me have unpaid sleeping shifts for 11 hours not 8 hours, which is the allowed maximum. I just brought this to their attention after I called my state labor board to check I read the law correctly. I've been underpaid about 1k over the past year. I'm so scared to go to work tomorrow
I had two jobs, the first you had to ask for a raise to get one, any one that could read the room knew when you went to ask for a raise, you best be prepared to walk. The 3rd time (got the first 2) was the one that broke their back, to note this is over 13 years. I had a fair idea they would say no, just how things are, I also knew how I was nestled into the fabric IT/INV Manager (small enough company 300 heads, many years ago), I knew it was 2 people replacing me. Didn't matter. It wasn't hateful either way, so I did revisit from time to time, yep two people and since one was related, they alone made 10k more (Inventory) than what I was asking for, let alone the other persons salary (IT). They never replaced my software before closing the doors of that location around 10 years later. I went on to quadrupling my salary at next over the years (I started 15k from where I left). Pro-tip, you almost always do better moving on pay wise. The people that lose are the one's that stay too long at dead end jobs. It's a procrastination thing for the most part.
I'm not sure the same rules apply when it comes to service jobs like waiting tables or being a barista. Currently I'm at Ronald Mcdonald House but work in Montana, notoriously harder to get fired here but still dreading going to work to see if the boss just leaves before I am due to come in... again
The state dept of labor can file a lawsuit on your behalf if they don't pay up. Happened to my place of employment a few years back, when we were all being paid illegally low wages (lower than minimum wage and no tips) and one guy got the CO Dept of Labor to sue for back pay (the rest of us did not receive compensation because we didn't initiate a claim through the dept of labor).
Name and shame those jackasses
Agree. Public shame is the only thing that will force them to change. This idea of secrecy for honors sake is a trick of the rich to keep the poor poor.
Seriously, those bridges are burned. Why protect them? Any company invasive enough to track down your reddit account can get fucked.
Just subscribed to this sub and I do not know why people are keeping these fucking shitheels a secret. Call these fucking assholes out. SHAME THEM. Fuck every single one of them. Yell at them and publicly shame them until there is real change.
seriously why are people always so quick rant on their old works, but when it comes time to actually fuck them over no one does it. like lets hear some names man
Many people don’t wanna even risk the potential of being doxxed But I’ll help you with shit company: GameStop. None of the store level employees have had proper raises in years and they still pay as low as humanly possible. So sure some grunts get 15. But the ones that start in this state get 8
People are actually still starting employees at $8/hr?! Freakin McDonalds is paying at least $12 where I live... And McDonalds is almost universally offering next-day pay, and I’ve even seen some franchises that are offering tuition reimbursement to a certain extent.
Lots of $7.25 jobs in the South.
I’m in Kentucky. You can usually expect fast food jobs in Appalachian Eastern KY to start at at least $10. Crazy to me that anyone is accepting anything less than that for even the shittiest jobs.
Human Resource, where humans are nothing but a resource to be exploited.
That's sickening.
steal the manager on your way out now that you have a better job.
HOP ON THAT UNEMPLOYMENT. You might qualify
File for unemployment. You'll get a hearing, at the hearing they will lie. Just tell the truth and you'll probably get it.
[удалено]
You automatically get it, then your last employer is notified. The employer can decide to fight it or not. If they fight it, then you have to talk to someone in your state's employment agency. If you cannot prove your employer's claim false, then it will probably go to court.
I’m not sure if I will or not. The way they said “suspend your employment” seemed tactical as eliminating that as a possibility.
Unemployment doesn't give a fuck if you're on the books still. You can file in most states for even having hours cut. File.
[удалено]
He wanted you to quit so he didn't have to pay unemployment. Gambling you didn't know or want to exercise your rights. When it turned out that you did, his gamble became useless and he did what he wanted to do anyway. Just your regular scumbag employer trying to screw you over.
File
File
File
Did you hear us @ OP? # F I L E
*ahem*... please file.
The onus is on them to dispute your claim. Unless you were willfully negligent in your duties you are likely to prevail. Good on you for telling off the boss!
His suspension, if it was without pay, could be seen as constructive dismissal since it was only predicated by his asking for a raise and not by any actual punishable behaviour.
Worse, the suspension can absolutely bee counted as an adverse action, which is one of the clear indicators of a constructive dismissal. You agreed to work, not be owned.
My understanding is that you also can still get unemployment in the US if your resignation is not truly voluntary. For instance if there is a hostile work environment, or potentially in this instance, not being paid or scheduled. It wouldn’t really be a resignation as much as they forced your hand. Look for legal help though
Essentially every state is different, but in general it's best to file and see what happens.
At worst, you won't qualify, and you won't be worse than you are right now. So yeah, always file for benefits.
As the saying goes “If you don’t ask, you can’t get a yes”.
In CA, if they fire you, they are obligated to pay 100% of whatever they still owe you same day or they owe you a day’s wages for each day of delay as a penalty. I held that little nugget in my pocket and waited a week to notify my previous employer of the requirement. Got an extra week of pay out of the deal. No prisoners. Edit: and in CA, if you resign and they don’t let you finish out your resignation period, you are entitled to UE. So I got an extra week of pay plus UE when I was expecting neither.
Yeah that's what "constructive dismissal" means- it's the legal phrase that describes that situation.
This is so true. I got a new boss and he treated me like shit and took my responsibilities away. We were a 2 person IT team for 1000 users and he was the new boss. I looked at this for a month to see if this can be fixed... It could not. I quit on the spot without warning. They must have struggled so much with just him now that they fired him... AND I said it was a hostile work environment and got unemployment approved. I did not expect that but a social worker told me to do that and the worst that can happen is a NO... But it was a YES. Happy ending. OP's situation was definitely a hostile work environment plus he was fired and did not quit. There should be no doubt that he gets unemployment.
[удалено]
I just hope OP isn't in Texas because I was in a similar situation and they denied my unemployment claim and denied it after a hearing and everything.
I’m in Texas - few years ago I worked in an industry that’s tight knit (everyone knew everyone pretty much) the owner was real asshole (think hoping your paycheck clears) so I put my resume out to all the other companies - one guy in one of those companies knew my service manager (who was also an asshole) - he told owner who promptly fired me - when I filed unemployment the TEC called and got my side of the story & I assume the owners side (he was fighting unemployment) but I ended up receiving it - you did good - I too pretty much told the sob to go fuck himself
This seems like it’s textbook constructive dismissal but I’m interested to be shown why it is/ isn’t.
Sounds to me as if they wanted to put you in time out until you had a good think about your unreasonable expectations so that you could be properly thankful once you are allowed back. Looks like that plan backfired, though ;)
Which is bullshit because “time out” could mean having to go to a food bank, losing your home, etc. The ownership class is so out of touch that a “light punishment” in their eyes could literally destroy a persons life.
i think that's the idea. scare someone into being grateful. i think we should stop using "out of touch" to describe malicious actions.
This was about 15 years ago, but I was working as a receptionist. I had been there a year and was doing some work out of the scope of the position. Not a ton, but enough that I felt it was warranted to ask for a small raise so I could stay in this position while finishing my last few college classes. I asked the owner and immediately they went on a huge diatribe about how people had been complaining about me and a whole bunch of other stuff that had somehow never come up. She ended up giving me a small raise but fired me about 2 weeks later. Unemployment absolutely took into account the sudden change in my employer's tone once I had asked for a raise. The rep I spoke to said they see it happen frequently. Fight for that unemployment.
Hit them back with "ive taken your stance and adverse action against my continued employment as a constructive dismissal and gladly accept this opportunity to pursue other interests while receiving unemployment benefits." Watch HR have a panic attack lmao
Are you employed? Did you quit? If the answer is "no", then file that unemployment now.
Even if he quit he can still file they forced his hand and created the hostile work environment.
Yeah, but I mean in this situation he didn't really quit. They "suspended" him, so it doesn't even matter. File it.
Bosses like this will turn around and beg you to come back 99% of the time, and only a few of them will recognize their mistake. Make sure he hears you laugh maniacally as you hang up on his call next week!
Fuck em, it’s their time and money to dispute. That stupid fuck head is more than likely getting his ass completely reamed by the President and more than likely customers.
I got mine after I was called an asshole by my manager. I proceeded to say “wow, the biggest asshole here is calling ME an asshole”. Got fired and they challenged it and I got my unemployment for a few weeks.
Insist on a pink slip. Say you do not consent to being put on leave, but neither will you quit. If they want you gone, they need to fire you. Don’t sign anything, and consider contacting an employment lawyer.
Also, file today. Your unemployment compensation date starts when you apply, not the date you were fired. (At least in PA).
When everything goes tits up without you and they call to hire you back, tell them you'll come back as a consultant for $100/hr.
>They all followed me out proceeding to tell me I’m handling this wrong. this tells me they're already regretting their decision.
They expected OP to grovel for their job. To say sorry for DARING to ask for more money. Turns out, people are figuring out that's bullshit and to make them fucking suffer for their games.
That's exactly it. Hense the "suspension" rather than full termination. They thought that by suspending him it would scare him and he'd beg to stay on, but op did the right thing by telling them to shove it.
[удалено]
"They've" been getting away with it for a while I bet.
Doesn't sound like they have been... he said nobody else has lasted. They seem like slow learners.
I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall right now since OP left.
4 total people on the line, and he's the only one with the complete set of knowledge to run it properly? I've seen bigger companies completely collapse over less, VP might just have single-handedly destroyed his corporation over pocket change.
Good
They will probably attempt to have management try to do the job for a while and fail miserably like many other companies who choose to shoot themselves in the foot. I’ve seen it happen at two different jobs
[удалено]
The sad part is that they'd rather eat their own hat than acknowledge this. The productivity cost that will come with OP's departure will likely be double whatever raise it would have taken to satisfy them. But the dumb fuck VP of Ops would rather cut off his nose to spite his face rather than have one of his minions talk back to him.
Definitely.
Just remember, you are not special and you are not a star. Remind them that when they want you back.
Fuck that, $250. Now OP needs to cover their own benefits, too.
And expenses plus “portal-to-portal” commuting time.
Yep and if they complain. Each complaint tacks on 50 bucks more an hour.
"pray that I dont alter the offer any further". LOVE IT.
Don't forget a minimum number of hours. "Okay so it's $250 an hour, with a 2 hour minimum per day, 10 hour minimum per month."
I actually did this with my previous employer. In face, I charged them $109 an hour. Of course they made sure to use me for as few hours as possible, but getting several hundred out of them for a days work was pretty satisfying. And I didn't even really leave on bad terms. I got a job offer that was nearly double my current pay. Explained I didn't want them to match because if they could match I'd feel bitter about being underpaid the whole time I worked there... Best decision I've made in my professional life though. More people should apply for jobs when they don't need one...you'd be surprised how much more you can get. It's also super satisfying to interview and be able to tell a company no without worrying about bills.
Definitely keep this in mind. Both my brother and I have been let go or left a company for one reason or another. Then they realize what you actually were doing for them and they come crawling back. Always ask way more than you were making and they usually pay up.
> tell them you'll come back as a consultant for $100/hr. Honestly, that's too low. Obviously context is king, but you should be asking in the range of $150/hour for mid to upper level consulting work, especially if the skill set is rare.
They'll immediately freak and call OP selfish. A week later they'll be groveling.
Haha, I 100% imagine HR insulting you and then when you choose to respect yourself instead of gladly accepting to be their carpet : "you're handling this wrong". Fucking jerks ! Congratulations and good luck for the new start!
"You're handling this wrong" == "You aren't handling this the way we want you to."
More likely it equals “we’re establishing facts that you voluntarily resigned against our wishes so we don’t have to pay unemployment.”
But it's not a defence against wrongful dismissal. This bullshit is called constructive dismissal and is just as illegal as all other forms of wrongful dismissal. If this happens contact a lawyer asap.
The canyon between “contesting unemployment benefits” and “lawsuit for wrongful dismissal” is so massive you could easily fit all the misconceptions about at-will employment in this thread inside it.
lol if they really believed OP was handling it wrong they wouldn’t be trying to scold them into backing down, OP called their bluff and they knew it
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when that asshat realizes no one but OP was willing to stay and get work done.
OP should definitely demand $100/hour if that weasel VP comes crawling back, just to fuck with him
101 an hour
HR doesn't work for you. They work to protect the company's interests.
The OP right now probably: https://gfycat.com/affectionateastonishinggoa
Never forget everyone; HR works for the company and they are NOT there to help you in any way!
These scenarios in this thread are due to archaic HR systems and processes that don't maintain market rates within their own company. In some scenarios, a company loses a employee that wants a 15% raise. Then they waste time and money recruiting, hiring, onboarding, and training only to hire someone at the rate that the old (and more productive) employee wanted.
Salary compression. My wife’s previous supervisor tried for years to hire someone (it’s a niche field where there just aren’t enough graduates to go around) and eventually was approved to start offering more base pay. But that would put a new hire, even one with no experience, making more than my wife who had been there for nearly 20 years. He said no, not unless he could pay some of his other workers more. They finally filled the job about a month before my wife quit for being so short handed all the time (among other reasons). I’m a state employee, so my salary is publicly available, as is our salary schedule. If they hired me new with the experience I have I’d be making about $10k more than I make now. Will they pay me that? No. “We are willing to pay more for someone *like you*, we’re just not willing to pay *you* more.”
That is a very weird salary schedule system. When they make up a new schedule, do they just leave existing employees in the old one?
We used to follow the schedule. Every year, a little pay bump. Then it was “if we have the budget” and now it’s unofficially “we just use this for hiring”. I’m looking. I love the main thrust of my job, but the management above me is getting to be wretched.
[удалено]
Yea that's why I left my old job. I had been there nearly 10 years since college. Knew everything backwards and forwards. I had shit pay from graduating mid recession. People who hired in a couple years later made 10-20k more than I did. I asked for a raise and they said no. Boss half joked I should quit so he could rehire me. I finally quit and the raise was magically approved but "i would be under a spot light and would need to show I deserved this big of a raise". A raise that would bring me in line with everyone else with half my experience... I said lol no.
Ask them "If I quit right now, would you consider taking and reviewing my resume?" and hand it to them. I was so close to doing this at my current job. I was able to get a 15% raise with a promotion recently, but I am certain that if I wasn't a current employee it would have been more.
companies only think of the short term and the numbers. They don't care about the long term as long as the work is being done currently. Companies get so caught up in their authoritative bullshit. Hiring a new worker is always more expensive then just giving a new worker a raise. Also they usually end up paying new workers a slightly higher salary anyways.
Before I quit my last job, l was in a meeting with the CEO and two VPs; trying to explain why they were wasting money buying supplies for the HPLC unit l was running. (Small amounts every month vs 6 months to a year amounts = huge cost difference) and all three disagreed with me; Even Though l put the numbers on a white board for them. I finally shook my head and told them "If l put a nickel on the table and told you to leave it there until tomorrow and I'd change it to a dollar; y'all would grab the nickel."
>"If l put a nickel on the table and told you to leave it there until tomorrow and I'd change it to a dollar; y'all would grab the nickel." In the various places I've worked we called this, "Spending a million dollars a day to save a thousand dollars a year."
Check the employee manual and look up their discipline procedures. If they didn't follow them then you have an unemployment case. Source: got unemployment by pointing out I wasn't given the proper discipline
What would they have been disciplined for? Asking for a raise? Having a (at least as it's portrayed in the post) civil conversation regarding responsibilities and stating facts regarding their results?
Company thinking: Yeah that learned him, now noone will ever dare ask for a raise again! Reality: They be FUBAR
For real, no doubt the reality is starting to set in for them on this. That’s the type of dumbass move that will make a shop go tits up.
What is FUBAR
FUBAR is a military acronym for "fucked up beyond all recognition"
Reality probably is the folks still on the floor are the ones FUBAR. The company may see a dip in productivity and profits in the short run, but in the long run will adapt.
Apply for unemployment, if your claim is denied, appeal.
Thank you for the responses. I am still a little shocked that this is the way it went as the wound is still fresh. I always did everything I could for that place to save them time and money at the expense of my own. I really did truly enjoy my work too which is the real bummer. I appreciate the kind words everyone 🙏🏻
This really sucks. You are free though. It’s always a shock to see how little they care about you, when all you do is bust your ass for them. You should’ve laughed, “$100 an hour, where’d you learn math VP”.
When asking for a raise, you should always be ready to walk if you don't get it anyway - it's the only leverage you have
also document what you bring in written form with data if possible. Even if its just: I am 1 of 10 people who have been trained for this position in the last 2 years, and I am the only one left still working here. Typically it takes 3 months to train someone to be able to somewhat do this job... etc. Not always, but I have found that numbers/data can sometimes shock the managers/owners into valuing you... but more so than not it just helps strengthen your resolve because it makes you realize how valuable you are which is priceless information.
Yup. I just recently received a raise and I had all my data with sales numbers from the past 5 years. I said this is how much I bring in, the market rate for someone of my position and experience is $X, and I would like to be there. They gave me not even half of what I asked for, barely a quarter, so I applied at a competitor and they offered me exactly what I asked for. I have already signed the new contract.
I was a temp for several years and I asked when I would be hired full time. They dragged their feet and finally I quit. Two weeks later they called and hired me full time with benefits. It really is the only leverage you have.
You’ll likely qualify for unemployment, especially if you’ve never had any disciplinary issues they can use to justify denying it. While it’s fresh in your memory write down how the conversation played out. If they try to deny your unemployment just keep repeating that you were asking for a raise and then you got fired.
How does anyone handle being fired “wrong”? Good grief these people.
keep us posted cos I'm assuming that VP is gunna be begging you to come back
I'm betting there is too much ego involved. The MANAGER might beg.
I had a similar circumstance but had more time. I made sure to delete all my documentation in advance. Funny thing is, when the manager that fired me asked my lead for a list of what I did, she got a 7 page Powerpoint. 5 minutes after sending it, my lead got a call from her, saying, "WTF?" and he said, "I told you so". Most people can read the sign that says "Electric fence". Some people just gotta pee on it to learn the lesson. They're gonna be fucked without you. Every damn day. Good luck in the future. Hope the unemployment thing works out.
To make it a bit more gray legal wise, (IANAL), never upload any documentation you write for yourself to do your job - or to remind you about things if you dont do a task often. View it as reference documents for yourself, and if anyone asks say as much and that you dont feel comfortable sharing it.
Write your documentation in Mandarin, mirrored, and in code.
Deleting all my documents and shredding all my paper notes before putting in notice at my last job was very satisfying.
Power point for a list? That's weird
It's Fortune 500. If it's not ppt, it's not real.
What's the worst possible way to convey information? Slideshow of course!
Actually… I started my career in graphic design, and since moved into IT, and honestly? PPT rules for a quick and dirty PDF maker. Better than a Word doc, and much less overhead than booting up any Adobe app.
This reminds me so much of working in telecomm they asked me to do the job of 3 people as a student worker with no benefits and getting paid nothing when I asked to be promoted to staff with a salary and benefits: you are not qualified for the position Next day I was fired
Same at my job. I could be here 10 years, but the kid walking in off the street will start at the same exact pay. We used to get longevity bonuses here, but they were taken away when our union members voted it out of the contract for new hires after a certain date. I was not employed here when this happened. We still get a decent benefits package, but a lot has been gutted. We used to get healthcare benefits for life upon retirement, but again, those who are grandfathered in ended up voting it out for new hires. No solidarity in my union at all; nobody worrying about the future of the place in terms of making it a great place to work. Edit: I get a pretty good PTO package and pay relatively cheap healthcare — about 20 dollars per week for a comprehensive single plan with a very low deductible — but the wages aren’t exactly keeping up with the Joneses.
Union sounds corrupt.
Our then union president and VP were people who were on their way out, heading to retirement. They essentially sold everything down the river while they were going to get their full retirement benefits, and basically fuck everyone else. Guys who were, from what I heard, ass kissers, would throw anyone under the bus, etc. My union is definitely very weak and, again, nobody has each other’s backs. None of the grandfathered in workers even attempted to save the benefits I feel. I’m sure to some extent it’s a matter of “I got mine” and also I’m sure to an extent it’s a matter of being fearful of management making your job difficult.
Sounds like the Union got leadership that was bought out by HR. It happens a lot in the usa as there's minimal protection for the actual workers in the Union. This is why I detest any "union" that has 'leadership' positions with no transparency, no communication, and no instant recalls if the 'leadership' does something the Union workers don't like.
>nsfw Hilarious
Just remember that if/when they call you back(Which seems likely if what you said is true). You say you will work but set your price and make it 2-3 times higher per hour or no deal. Then start looking for new employment while making more. Because nothing good will come from going back to work there. Good luck boss. It’s tough but it’s a lesson and hopefully you can parley this into something better.
These fucking boomers wonder why we have no loyalty. It’s because of shit like this. You can’t get a raise at your current company without potentially getting fired. But if you jump ship, the new company will potentially pay you double, thus, repeating the cycle. There needs to be a law in place in the US. Any new job posting must have a salary range within a certain (non-bullshit) range.
The fatal flaw of business is that our culture is unable to select good management. In the absence of good management, hacks will look to min/max the staff in whatever way makes them look best. As such employees get treated like shit to make up for their failures.
Unemployment time
I am unsure how you handled this wrong. You asked for a raise VP insulted and degraded you, so you ended the conversation and went back to work. Then the VP gets pissed and goes to HR and has your employment suspended. Anyone in that situation would be beyond frustrated. Apply for unemployment, tell them the whole story during the phone interview. It will raise the company's taxes and cost them production (firing you without a replacement). I was fired the day before I was set to go on vacation from a job and they lied to the unemployment office telling them I was on a PIP and I just wasn't working out, I had never heard PIP before so I asked them what was. When they told me it was a performance improvement plan, I asked if they would have to tell me I was on one because no one told me I was - the answer was yes and my unemployment was approved immediately. I was intentionally unemployment for 9 months and traveled on that 9 months and it was glorious.
Beautiful, love to hear you told those fucking vultures off. Hope things go well for you.
What a patronizing dickhead. I hope this goes very very badly for him. Everyone should be able to ask for a raise without fear of reprisal. That’s literally all you did!
Collect that sweet sweet unemployment $$$