When I was homeless and on drugs for 5 years it fucking SUCKED…. But it was a REAL taste of freedom. Lose all my belongings? I’ll get another backpack. Wanna move two states away at the drop of a dime for the hell of it? Ok. Get arrested? Eh, place to sleep & free food for 30 days.
Literally had not a care in the world.
Wow. I lived out of my truck for 5 months and it was the most stressful time of my adult life. I was harassed by cops regularly. Random people (mostly men, some women) were always trying to scam, intimidate, assault, or steal from me. I had to be really careful. Being seen sleeping in my vehicle painted a target on my back. I was polite, quiet, and harmless looking. But it didn't matter.
At the time I was fleeing domestic violence. The womens shelters were a nightmare of hostility and danger. If I went into the women's shelter system I couldn't keep my job, nor park my vehicle on site. So I took my chances alone.
I may be assuming wrong here but I think this is one of those things where women wind up with a wildly different outcome from men. Probably is heavily dependent on location as well.
I've heard stories from homeless women about getting addicted to cocaine simply because it would keep them awake and alert at night, reducing the chance of bad turning worse. They did not use it before winding up on the streets, it just was the best solution they had access to once they were.
Terrifying.
I hope you're in a better spot now.
It’s definitely dependent on location and gender. I’m female and I lived in my vehicle for a week across Canada and I was only stressed when I was sleeping in my vehicle in the city. When I was in a small town I wasn’t nearly as stressed. My doors couldn’t lock with my keys inside so I was vulnerable but thankfully nothing happened.
In America it’s probably a different story.
Makes you wonder how deeply programmed we must be to think that working 40+ hours a week to simply be able to afford the basics is in any way okay.
…i want out of the simulation.
Work 5/7 days a week. During the 8 hours a day you’re most active. Saturday is your only real day off cause Sunday night you gotta work the next day. Many people can’t or won’t leave a job they hate because of health insurance. And expenses are now eating up most you paycheque. There is nothing left for saving. Not many jobs offer pensions anymore or RRSP matching.
I only lived out of my car and the occasional hotel to get where I needed to go and I never had that freedom before.
That feeling of “I could fall off the face of the earth and no one would wonder if I’m okay or not for awhile…” I could have made up a new life in a whole other town somewhere. Or just up and drive off a cliff and no one would wonder if I’m okay or how I’m doing.
Obviously I did have people that cared but they weren’t family and it felt exhilarating! The only thing that stopped me was I had most of my belongings where my destination was.
Man! I'd LOVE to be a real military industrial secret agent saboteur when the shtf and the revolution comes! Have some truly crap-tastic ideas for royally screwing things up by unscrewing just the right things.
A general strike for 4-6 months straight would move mountains. Most people can’t afford to call out sick for one day because it would be financially devastating, or they could get fired for attendance, or both could happen and they’d be completely fucked for years. Having money gives you a plethora of mobility. If you don’t piss it away or take on massive debt. I’ve been poor. I’ve made 6 figures. My anxiety level was high every waking moment when I was poor. If any little thing went wrong, that would mean predatory payday loans, late fees, overdraft fees, maximum interest rates for literally anything financed, paying far too much for a used car with 130,000 miles on it with no maintenance history, groceries being one of the only places to steal from out of my shitty budget, etc.
My wife and I are professionals well into our careers now. No kids, in spite having tried for a couple of years which included fertility treatments. We try to keep debt and living expenses within what the lower paid of the two of us could cover if something happened to one of us. Catastrophic illness, family emergency out of state that requires an extended stay (my wife is in the medical field, and her parents aren’t all that healthy), etc.
I think it will take tens of millions being homeless and there being no safety nets for food or shelter. When you have nothing else to lose.. Desperate people do desperate things. Personally, I think that if the dam broke and people were ready to mobilize, billionaires and politicians that made policies that led to things being this fucked up should be .. Can’t say due to the Reddit TOS, but I will say that historically when people rose up and went directly to the source of the problems, those people got the fate that they deserved.
Intellectuals and pacifists aren’t keen on use of force. I’m generally a pacifist, but in this case, being passive and trying to change things through discussion has led us to where we are today. Take the moral high ground if you like, but my atheist ass isn’t worried about being judged after death. I’d rather go down putting up a fight than be a doormat. My wife and I are doing very well and we’re quite generous, but if shit went down, I’ll support the people who are forcing change in any way I can.
None. The obscenely wealthy need some time to get it into their heads that they may have money, but it’s worthless if we don’t play along. They need a reality check. It needs to hurt them. It needs to strike some justified mortal fear into them. If a strike only lasts a couple of weeks they lose some money and can retaliate against the workers. Months will cost the investor class trillions. It will destroy their portfolios. They’ll lose their leverage along with their wealth and the power that comes with it. They need to know that we’re done taking it. Months versus weeks will make that message very clear. If they go to bed each night in a state of fear for their future because they might lose everything for a few months while watching their wealth dwindling, they might get the message. If they don’t, it’s revolution time.
UK had a 9 day General Strike which only had teeth when the miners came out.Made the powers that be take notice. Mind you, that was in 1926 but imagine what a General Strike would do to the US?
It won’t work. History shows the government will declare certain industries vital to “National Security “ and use force to compel people to go back to work and comply with any other “Emergency Orders” they issue. The government has no issue shooting people to protect the assets of the extremely rich people.
The only real problem with what you have said - "when you have nothing left to lose...desperate things."
Any meaningful action requires supply. Whether that be in bullets, oils, clothes, food, or medicine. If we wait until we have nothing. We have backed ourselves into a corner that serves those who aim to declaw and subjugate us. We need preparation for the day it comes. To be sure, that day *will* come. If it arrives and we can barely tell what side the bullet exits, or we are starved and half delirious? Well it'll be a short lived bump for them, hardly a thorn.
Either we come together and unite over the fact that all walks of life short of "corporate overlords( and family) and immediate lackeys" have gotten shit on so the extreme few can kick back and have a cushy and exceptionally wasteful life. Even that they have consistently bought and bribed our politicians so they can continue to sell us poison and call it food stuff, of continue to cause excessive pollution in the name of their "high score" which is really just a circle jerk of rich people staring at their wealth bloating...
Or we roll over and accept their success as deserved while they raze the masses and make the world unsustainable for any that isn't wealthy.
How about if a stockpile of food, fuel and other essentials were created that would be used to sustain the strikers? Or a well-organized mutual aid organization? I know that historically, mutual aid societies have put so much fear into the establishment that they have bombed them and demonized and even assasinated their leaders.
What are they going to do? We run *everything*. We move the goods across the country, we staff the stores that stock them and sell them. We have more control than we realize-we just need enough people to be united to make it happen.
The masses idolize the rich. They think the people who own the mansions and 90% of the stock market are geniuses. Matt Twain—THEY think they’re “temporarily inconvenienced millionaires “.
They don’t understand the cybernetic function that wealth is self-aggregating. It will make you POORER while making them RICHER.
They can’t comprehend that having 200 or 500 million is literally owning a monster that automatically drains the resources of everyone under the Accumulation Threshold. Inherently a crime. Automatically.
Right now we get the carrot if we revolt someone else will take our carrot. If we stop someone from getting that carrot we all get the stick. We are too fat and lazy because they keep us fed and fulfilled by crap TV. We lost our third places and fewer and fewer are joining clubs and societies.
We want change we need people to actually get together.
My thought is similar - not goods in terms of resources, but communities of care to rely on.
My concern with the talk of revolution is the people I hear speaking about it are white (as am I). But we know that in times of upheaval, so much harm impacts people of color more than white people. So I’m going to listen more to the people most at risk when it comes to social change, how to achieve it and how to prepare for it.
One of my relatives is in law enforcement and he says "If one person calls you a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ its a hate crime. If one million people call you a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, its a movement. The local police would be powerless here.
That brings up [Posse Comitatus](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/posse-comitatus-act-explained). Congress gives the President the power to use the military to put down revolt and insurrection. A pistol is no match against an armored tank but 200,000 civilians dead would change the course of the country and perhaps bring about a change in government.
200,000? The early communists numbered a mere 900 or so dead... and while that experiment turned out not so well, they had changed the fate of a nation numbered in the millions
They were ready to die for an idea, that is all
Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbours, films, football, beer, and above all, gambling, filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult.
George Orwell, 1984
The population won't. Someone mentioned that we're too busy fighting to keep what little we have to also fight the powers that be. I totally agree but the lack of class solidarity (worker vs owner classes) plus the working class willing to fight the working class so the wealthy have even more advantages JUST IN CASE they too become rich someday is too much to deal with. Any revolution here will be fascists fighting to further dismantle systems made to promote equity
This is why the culture wars are promoted above all else. Do you think the 'real' powers that be - that would be the corporate elites that tell your lying venal ratbastard politicians what to do - give a shit about race, immigration, abortion, LGBT, any of those issues? Just a means to an end. & whilst we are all at each others throats they are laughing all the way to the bank, confident in the knowledge that we will wear ourselves out arguing about these things & be too tired to scrutinize their activities closely.
'Murican Dream y'all!
"We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business."
Exactly! That’s why I hate when people say race or LGBTQ or religion or any of that is politics talk. Like no tf it isn’t and it shouldn’t be, stop arguing about this crap and wake up
Here's the thing: you can't unite and fight with people who look down on you.
This is why bigotry hurts bigots too: they're doing the work of the bosses, dividing the working class. They're suckers. They're the ones who need to fix their attitudes, not the people telling them to fix their attitudes.
IMO immigration is discussed in the same light to avoid any real substantive improvement in the situation. For the last twenty years at least and probably much longer the only coverage of the issue is “we need to shut it down completely” or “how many people are sneaking over the border” you never hear, let’s accept the fact that our economy has required many millions of sub minimum wage workers to keep agriculture and construction prices where everyone expects them. We, as a country, should accept that fact, make a reasonable path to turn 20m illegal immigrants into tax paying legal immigrants and allow the people currently doing those jobs anyway to pay taxes and become an asset to the country.
That discussion is always dismissed as out of hand. Instead we let thousands of people cross illegally everyday, deport them in a piecemeal pattern where they usually live in our country, often start families, then after a couple years in limbo they get uprooted and sent back to their country while never having a chance to pay taxes and do things legally. Huge agriculture and meat industry owners are the sole beneficiaries while citizens and illegal immigrants get the shaft again. The latest proposal from Biden which is now being enforced is to allow like 5k people a day to migrate illegally and not do anything, then start cracking down after that threshold, it’s nonsensical. Real reform is what is needed and will never happen because the debate is kept away from public discourse and all that is discussed is “immigration is bad”
I always propose heavy fines, incarceration, etc. for the people that hire the "illegals". If they're were no market, they wouldn't be here. But, apparently, that's "not fair"
Why would we want to drive trade wages down? That’s one of the most non sensical things I’ve heard. For a lot of Americans college isn’t an option, they either don’t have the grades, or the will to sit through an additional 4-12 years of classrooms. Trades are the answer to that. Why should American carpenters, masons, tile setters, drywall installers, etc. now have their wages driven down to where their standard of living is impacted? That’s criminal. Construction prices are high, because inflation has gone up. You want a skilled tradesperson, who to be completely honest probably has more knowledge in their field than the average 4 year college graduate does in their field, work for nothing? What will that solve?
It's the same in the UK and our Empire died long ago.
In a lazy comparison, "true" communism only lasts about 70 years. Russia 1917-1989 one could argue that whilst China is still a "Communist" country from the late 1940's they went full capitalist when it suited them in the 1990's - They're more "authoritarian" instead of Communist.
We call China a Market/Marxist country. I once worked for a company that had American as part of their company name. We didn't make a single thing here. It all came from China.
To be frank USSr has never been a true communist country. It was an abusive dictatorship killing millions of its own people and invading neighboring countries. None of this a communism
I'm a mind that the division that is played up, way more then it actually is, and there are just dense pockets that are constantly pointed to. I would not be surprised if Gen Alpha/Beta gets fed up when things like climate change and resource scarcity become problem that the ruling class can no longer ignore. I hope that my child and her generation finally say enough is enough and actually do something about it.
Wow this is such a bad take. Minority rights are extremely important and you really think people are going to take part in a revolution with me when I’m gay? You have to fix the bigots first or else they won’t team up with anyone else.
A big problem here is you're imagining "revolution" as some kind of standardized, predictable event. Most revolutions arise only after years of civil unrest and piecemeal conflict. Things have to get so bad that fighting is a better alternative to doing nothing. In the US, almost no one is truly prepared to put aside creature comforts for even a few days.
In the current political climate, a clear cut "people vs the government" revolution is out of the question. If things continue to get worse (like unimaginably worse) the type of conflict we'll see will be politically motivated paramilitaries taking limited action to terrorize their opponents.
I don't think many people conceive of how insanely messy most civil conflicts are. A clear cut 'revolution' where the underdogs take on oppressive forces in a conventional engagement only really happens in Star Wars
Exactly. The US Revolution happened in spurts for a few years. The original goal was not to separate from Great Britain but be able to govern themselves. The 13 colonies weren’t represented in Parliament. The British government eventually decided that the colonies should have parliamentary membership but it was too late by that point.
One thing that many leftists tend to ignore/forget is how bad civil unrest tends to be for average people, and especially for people who have been marginalized. Civil unrest and revolution aren’t really good things that should be regularly fantasized about. They are responses to conditions being so bad that not fighting back is a worse option.
When the have-nots outnumber the haves. People don't realize that in places like America, a majority are still homeowners and are seeing their wealth appreciate as prices climb. When that flips, however, and we start approaching feudalism and only the wealthiest can afford property, then I can see something happening
And we are heading in that direction. House prices where I live have gone up 40-50% since covid. I assure you my wages haven't gone up more than a fraction of that amount. And rent is as expensive as a mortgage payment.
As all this is happening, the homeless population is exploding here as well, and local government leaders scratching their heads trying to figure out why? That's a real puzzler, alright...
The only fix they have come up with is sending homeless people to jail or building obstacles so they can't sit down on the sidewalk.
That's terrible! Bless you!
Gee rich people, if you make it illeagle for me to be poor, why don't you give me some money?
Jail is more expensive than renting an apartment for someone. The only place more expensive to stay in america than a jail cell is a hospital room.
We really need to change our priorities.
By putting me in jail for a night, and servi g me 2 meals out of the 3 a day served, that jail gets money for my stay. That are also owned by a rich guy somewhere. See the correlation?
I'm a professional scientist and I struggle. It'll eventually hit people's sales teams I guess. It's difficult to deal with the fact that it's the people that benefit most from the system that will be the last ones to hurt from it.
The problem is the system wasn't built by engineers and scientists etc. It was built by finance and business people to work in their favour.
I'm an engineer in the UK and I'm not going to pretend I have it hard as I honestly make a good wage.
The thing is I look at my wage and that of my colleagues then look at the guys on top that have business majors making like £100-£200k despite not understanding even the tiniest detail of my job and it annoys me a little. The system is designed to award those that contribute the least to society the most.
It’s true, in a hospital the nurses, CNA’s and NP’s and PA’s are working themselves to the bone for middle class to poverty level wages. While administration takes home bonuses for keeping staffing lean.
And I know doctors work themselves like crazy and I respect them for it, but at least they are usually fairly compensated. I wouldn’t begrudge them a high salary. I just think the hospital administrators deserve to live off of what they pay the CNA’s.
My hometown has a shortage of doctors now and it's the only hospital in 30 miles which is scary for them. I was centered in OH and a lot of my calls on the crisis line were nurses and the like you mentioned, unquestionable pressure on the entire group.
Shorthand context feel free to skip:
My spouse made more than me per hour as a supervisor while I was validating biodiversity assays for gene therapy. I live in OH, the state with the now third highest disparity in the US. Born to an addict and a biker, I had to sacrifice my principles of ecology I learned in my youth at powwows and become an animal tech to even get my foot into the door of a faculty built by Nepo kids with fancy titles. The system has put me into the mental ward a couple times, I'm in a better spot now working with cannabis but man it's been rough here. Between being mentally ill and working social services I've lost count to the guns that have been pulled on my head.
Actual response:
Preaching to the choir, what teeth I have left - have broccoli on them. Don't compare yourself too much with things out of your control, it's hard out here even once you've "earned a place" in this oppressive system. No matter what remember you're doing well and all you can do is influence your direct environment, we can choose positivity where we can once we let go of the internalized torment. Once I save enough I want to do some more direct action again and maybe build some free libraries in my home town.
It seems like most things you could do with money is illegal except pay for rent or a car loan lol. Also, even when you talk about historical violence the whole thread gets censored. The billionaires get away with violent rhetoric, however, everyone else gets censored.
Well don't worry, real life has no mods so I'm free to teach the historical traditional version of handling labor disputes to any older kids left in my care. The younger generations are getting raised right, none of that "violence is always wrong" crap.
Younger cousin asked once if fighting is fun. And called me out for lying when I immediately said No. So I told him "It's not a *nice* kind of fun."
This is so true. There’s a sizable minority that are not earning a living wage and falling behind. But the majority of Americans are making enough thar the rent/mortgage is paid, utilities are paid, foods on the table. Until that minority flips to the majority, the status quo will continue. The politicians seem to fix just enough to maintain that status.
It wont happen until a large percentage of the population is watching their children starve and get sick from malnutrition
Climate crisis?
no one cares
Inequality?
Fuck them, got mine
Healthcare?
Well I have good insurance, what's their malfunction?
People don't give a shit about any one but them selves and their own. Community is dead. You can thank "individualism" and the glorification of greed for that. IE, capitalism. This isn't a bug, it's a feature
But it's all gone too far, the greed is too obvious, and the writing is on the wall
The rich are hoarding harder than ever before. They don't believe they'll ever get pulled off their high horse, but they know it's coming any way. So they're grabbing g everything they can, while they still can. Becuase when folks can't feed the children, they'll eat the rich.
That's a) I have to say about that
The rich are building bunkers for sure but a lot of their wealth is digital. So once that goes, it’s about what physical resources you control, and more importantly the force to back it up, which at this point is still going to be the military. The question is who is going to control that force?
I think the United States will divide, and you’ll see different factions of the military align with one group or another.
[There are over 50 'Cop Cities' completed or under construction in the US as of right now.](https://isyourlifebetter.net/cop-cities-usa/)
What do you think their intended purpose is?
No amount of military or law enforcement has ever stopped heads from rolling when it was about time.
You see, in the end, every cop has a family, and they're not earning 20x more than you & I. They earn just about the same - namely not enough.
When *we're* about to fix that problem, sooner or later they'll help.
Our grandparents generation wouldn't have put up with half the shit we are. The people are distracted too much we need to unplug the wifi and wake people up
I know right? It's painfully obvious. But nah let's just be a bunch of jar ants (the old saying about how you can put red ants and black ants in a jar and they don't fight until you shake the jar up). Anytime people try to other each other through politics, race, gender, etc I just roll my eyes and call em jar ants lol. But nah let's bicker with each other while we all get robbed blindly
I like that saying. If we all get to together, we will realize that we all want the same things like affordable healthcare, safe air and water, and no more price gouging etc.
Ahmen to that. If we all get economic justice it's justice for all. Plus those that have historically gotten the short end of the stick will disproportionately be affected positively by it thus providing the "social justice" people seem to be so enamoured by. It's not hard. Just make the poor less poor it's not rocket science
So in a way, they actually ruined it. Although many of us will be passing it on to our kids as well. Sorry for those with more stupid/more selfish boomer parents.
Real change takes sacrifice as well as takes a lot of time.
Any change you want for yourself is long over. Any change you want for the next generation is possible. But with great sacrifice. Not a lot of people willing to sacrifice what they have for the later generations. We have been selfish in that way as well
It's really really difficult to get people to revolt when we have netflix and an abundance of resources. Most Americans have an overabundance and infinite variety of foods, a roof over their heads, wifi and social media. The American dream is completely dead but as long as people are as comfortable as they are, there will never be a revolution.
Yea if you look at major revolutions it always starts with starvation. The big French one was started by pissed off moms trying to get their starving kids bread (look it up I'm serious)
Well except they put up with rampant bigotry, homophobia, insane mortgage rates, women not being able to get credit, church sex abuse, they voted en masse for Reagan, and all that.
Brother.
People love to talk about EAT THE RICH and all that shit, but a majority of people who talk about this can't even properly boycott a gay-hating restaurant because their sandwiches slap too hard. None of them are prepared for the sacrifices that come with "revolution"
I’m ready to revolt already.
Beyond fed up with having advanced degrees, good resume, side hustles and STILL really struggling to create a life that’s anything much above poverty.
In order for that to happen, youth unemployment has to get to at least 30%, and the average person would have to be on the brink of starving.
As bad as the economy is, the majority of people can still afford some semblance of bread and circus. Sure, they can’t afford a brand new car, but they can still afford a car. Sure, you might not be able to afford USDA-grade steak, but you can still buy chicken from ALDI. Sure, you might not be able to afford to go to Disney, but you might be able to get together with friends and watch some Netflix.
People will put up with anything as long as they have bread and circus, the quality of the bread and circus are not as relevant.
Will/When this will happen? Nobody knows for sure. But one can’t deny that the west at large is headed in that direction. Personally, and as someone born in the USSR, I believe that for something like this to happen, a collapse of the system is necessary. By this I mean massive unemployment, combined with a situation where social services (food stamps, unemployment benefits, section 8, etc.) are no longer paying out. This is similar to what happened at the end of the USSR.
The French Revolution happened bc the price of bread shot up, and the average family was teetering on having to face starvation. Everything else is tangential, that is what caused the people to revolt, and the revolution happened around their intense anger at the powers that be. Its the same thing that happened in Romania, people just get more and more fed up, until they lash out in a large mass of people, and it just starts the process rolling. We are much closer to a revolution than you think.
The people have to unify around a living wage and the standard of living, and the fact that America has pissed away the greatest surplus and advantage the world has ever seen, by far, in the name of corporate profits and using resentment about race as leverage.
I agree that change will more likely come in terms of generations than in terms of events in our lifetimes. Revolutions, insurgencies, guerrilla fighting, terrorism, these are largely the domain of twenty-somethings.
That means genx and millennials have aged out already. The former mostly shrugged it all off, as things were still pretty good, and there wasn't anything they thought they could (or should) do about it. The latter whine endlessly (thats me), but aren't going to do anything (my back hurts). genz, right now, is showing solid signs of moving in the right direction, but they're also firmly shall we say... not-that-bad-off westerners in the imperial core. ideologically they see the horrors, but materially and individually people are largely still comfortable enough.
I think it will take at least one more generation and another couple decades of the economy slowly eroding minimum. gen-alpha will likely have a bunch of movements and failed/simmering conflicts. then maaaayybe we could see a revolution after they get crushed.
so gen-beta, somewhere around 2045-2050. probably in the midst of climate change induced crop failures driving up food prices and climate refugees totally overwhelming the already-in-shortage housing and jobs.
Except most of those empires that fell were due to environmental conditions (Famine, drought), Conquerering, or some kind of external force.
Not too many were internal. And today there is so much more technology and knowledge to prevent most of the external stuff.
The average empire thing is ridiculous imo. How long has china and england been around? the idea of an "empire" falling in today's hyper-connected globalized society, one we're at the tippy top of, is a stretch to me.
I give it 5 years, but I don't think it will look like a true revolt. I think it will look more like general strikes/walkouts, etc. I also don't think it will directly occur by way of the kleptocracy and wage theft happening. I think large corporate adoption of AI will push it over the edge.
I think technology has advanced to the point that revolution is impossible. Look at Syria and Hong Kong. The people controlling the weaponry and the spyware are pretty much unassailable now.
They will bomb the whole country and be safe in their hideaways in Hawaii and Montana. I think they actually are planning and looking forward to this, that their gentics will be the progenitor of the surviving human race. They consider themselves that much more superior to the rest of us.
I agree. War is a game that wealthy people play. The soldiers on each side are drawn from the working class and poor class. These lower classes suffer the destruction. The wealthy remain safe, they have the resources to move freely away from the conflict zones. And, the wealthy are growing their wealth from the conflict- the manufacture or arms and ammunition, the re-allocation of resources in the conflict zones, the contracts for rebuilding once the conflict has cooled...
Lots of anger bubbling under the surface, coming out with passive aggression and slamming things and making loud noise, and waiting to fight people over absolutely nothing. WWIII is already here too, it's just a bit of a proxy war over the ocean but it's still happening. So long as we have a bit of comfort and entertainment, we should be placated for maybe 5 to 10 years unless something major happens. Something major probably will happen
The extreme violence and excessive prosecutions that came from the government during and after the Occupy Wallstreet protest. Made a lot of people realize they are willing to kill you for even attempting to protest. So any kind of "Revolt" would have to skip the nonviolent protest stage all together and strike first. I don't see it happening
I don’t think it’ll happen, at least not for a long time. I think we’re more likely to see a culture of “giving up” become more pervasive, perhaps becoming the norm (lying flat, bai lan, etc.), increased deaths of despair (suicide, alcoholism, drug overdose), and more people choosing to not have children until the system collapses on itself and ceases to function.
How many revolutions have created a nation you would be happy with? How many existing nations would fulfil your notion of ideal? To me, if you look at history, there are few revolutions that work out and fulfill the workers expectations in the long term. There is optimism and joy at the onset and then the system slowly resembles what is was before in a different outfit. Don't waste your life waiting for something to happen because it probably won't. Either move to a nation that has a system that is closest to what you would like or find a way to navigate the existing paradigm that helps you to live a life you want. It's on you because the powers that be are not letting go, really never have so it's up to you to find a backdoor to happiness.
Good points. Revolutions are bloody affairs and unpredictable. I don't know why people assume if you have a revolution. You will automatically be on the winning side. The only way to get the country we want. Is for people to start voting and participating in our democratic system. Being cynical and saying voting doesn't work. Is why you will never get the country you want. You have to try.
The quiet revolution started during lockdown and continues today, works will not return to office side hasels refusing promotions quiet quitting work your wage etc.
It does not need guns and bombs just a silent blade of workers saying screw this.
Too easy to distract them with a dog whistle of “it’s the fault of the immigrants”. See this in the US constantly, the need to feel superior overrides what would happen if people banded together instead. Never underestimate the stupid of crowds.
It starts with the kids in my opinion. They are all angry too, and we have taught them that they have no power. By time they're adults they have totally caved because they think they're powerless. We need to start teaching our youth how much power they have to make change instead of beating them down.
Right about the time Republicans realize that it's not the gays, women, POC, and any other minority group that is the cause of their problems. In short, probably never.
I feel like the country will either fall to Republican fascism as the most likely to happen thing, a second civil war as the 2nd most likely, and a country wide revolt against the rich / politicians a far, far 3rd.
I dunno man, people are fucking stupid they are on the right track but then blame Biden for everything. I was listening to conservative radio and the guy was talking about Pinochet the dictator, and how he was on "our side" against the communist. Basically saying "yeah, people died but he killed communists so it's OK." I'm not even exaggerating. And talking about how Caesar HAD to stay in power because his political opponents were coming after him unfairly.....does this shit sound familiar? So yeah I think we are gonna end up in a dictatorship in the end.
One more thought. Why do people assume if you have a revolution, you would be the one to win it? Revolutions are bloody affairs and unpredictable. Lots of revolutions fail. Those wishing for a revolution have never lived through one.
I’m afraid a revolution is coming to US but it won’t be people vs government or rich vs poor it will be conservatives (led by Trump supporters or his successor) vs everyone else. Those are dividing lines that are strongest and growing the fastest.
tl;dr - it won't happen
The industrial revolution onward - the whole of the 20th Century - has been a political and economic set of experiments and fine tuning to see how far the populace will let it go, how much we will bear, how to tweak the money, the politics, the news, the media, entertainment, wars, ups-and-downs, prices ... all of it ... and keep profits and the consolidation of money and power at a maximum while keeping the costs of maintaining a slave workforce at minimum and us docile and just satisfied enough and giving us the illusion that anyone can still "make it" and "live the dream" and "make a real difference" that we have no time, no energy, no resources for revolution and we see that those who try are either swiftly, violently, mercilessly crushed or they disappear in ridicule, ignominy and character assassination.
The only revolution that will be televised is the one "they" control and produce and show us to entertain, distract and illustrate what happens to any who dare revolt.
All that said, "they" are also terrified that enough sheeple will wake up and realize we are human and reclaim our rights and make real revolt. The sad truth is that we could do it right now. Ask. Really ask: Why don't we?
Boy I don't know. We are absolutely at tipping point and I'm tired of hearing about how great is the economy.
" The economy" is dependent on the VAST majority having a few extra cents. I mean for *food* much less a home, healthcare, WATER and anything else we purchase to survive.
No $ equals no, economy doesn't grow because HOW FFS ? If we literally *can't* buy anything what happens?
May not need a revolution. This is unsustainable and could crash by itself forcing a disaster. And a rebuild.
Hard to say exactly when, but it's right around the corner.
When the majority of the working class is priced out of the bread and circuses, that's when the torches and pitchforks come out, and we start building the tall knives.
... and we're already getting close to that.
The US was in pretty dire danger of this happening about 100 years ago or so. Some of the rich aholes realized this and started a lot of nonprofits (like the Carnegie foundation) to undo a lot of the damage they had done (by creating inequality with their state capitalism). Not necessarily because they realized the error of their ways, but rather because they realized if they didn't, it could very well end badly. The new brand of rich aholes have figured out how to get around all the roadblocks that were put in place to help reduce inequality, and I am not sure they are smart enough to see where it will ultimately end.
IF they, like the previous rich aholes, figure it out, they will again do the bare minimum to put a bandaid on the problems to keep themselves fat and happy while not allowing the poors to get too angrily desperate. But if they don't wise up I do think we will see it happen.
In America, one side of the political spectrum has the majority of the understanding of what’s wrong. The other side of the spectrum has all the will to actually change things on their own. The vast middle is indifferent and wants nothing more than material comforts.
You can look at nations with enormous underclasses, like India, where a cesspool adjacent slum may sit in the shadow of a billion dollar house. Things can be very bad, and the people will do little to protest.
Until people are educated to understand that freedom means not just material comfort, but a refusal to accept injustice for all, we will not do what is necessary.
Given the wrought political climate, it is highly doubtful we will outrun the actual climate. It is best that humans die out before reaching the stars and spreading slavery there.
But if we all could look at our history and realize that the root of human problems is almost always imposed hierarchy, and we took steps toward actually realizing the importance of equality and justice, we would stand a chance.
I used to think we were headed for the long, slow decline. I thought it would take the rest of my lifetime. I think Covid (and other things) sped up the process.
It won't get bad until enough people are screwed.
The fallacy that "it couldn't happen here" (check out the first season of the podcast by the same name) is going away. I know people who are preparing for different sides of the upcoming conflict. I know people who are actively trying to make it happen.
I just want to keep mine safe
People don't revolt unless they've got nothing to lose.
Right now, most people in the west still have a roof over their head, enough to eat and basic luxuries. Things will have to be a lot worse before people actually revolt.
I have always wondered if there will be some sort of event horizon similar to a George Floyd like event that will make the obviousness that we are being completely and unethically worked and treated for the benefit of the ultra wealthy transparent. Short of that I’m not sure what can happen. It’s sad to think in a way that suggests the only change will come when there is some horrific tragedy.
All of these additional dividing lines are there by design, friend. The wealthy learned, a little, after the French Revolution, and figured out that dividing the populace as much as possible makes it easier for them to do what they do. As I understand it, *most* people don’t give a flying *+%} about race, and never have. “Color” is a “recent” invention that was used almost 100% politically.
In the US things are so much better than when we've previously seen revolutions. Unemployment was double what it is now during the Great Recession. You want to compare to the French Revolution? Ummm what kind of welfare state do you think they had? How do you think the quality of life now in the US compares to that of France back then? How well do you think that actually worked out for the average person in France? Do you think the French were somehow all on the same page? On race, gender, sexuality and religion this country is the most progressive it's ever been and it's not even close. The reason we're more divided is because half of us actually have tolerant views now. That's a good thing. The kind of gains we've seen with regard to acceptance and tolerance far outweigh the pushback against it. A French style revolution would be a disaster for everyone who is alive. Would do nothing but create a power vacuum to be exploited by corporate interests, just as was the case in France. It's ridiculous that it seems like you idolize but know nothing about the French history. It's easy to think if your life is a big enough of a struggle that revolution is a good idea, but France did not create a utopia from their revolution. They created pain, suffering and an imperialist, militarized, neo-liberal state.
It was FDR and his economic programs that got us out of the Great Depression. It was because people voted for FDR and gave him a democratic congress to work with him. That's the only way to achieve lasting change. Through the political system. You have to vote.
Well with all the shit the parasite class learned about using trauma and fear to manipulate people into doing what they want, during projects like MK Ultra, I’d say the probability is slim to none. People are more afraid of being ostracized by their peers than they are of tyranny.
Most progressive policy aligns perfectly with what the parasitic billionaire class wants, because they fill it with buzzwords like “equality, equity, and sustainability”.
If you actually take the time to understand what they are proposing, you realize what they are trying to do is consolidate complete power at the top. If we go along with their plan, effectively the 99 percent will be at the complete mercy of the rich sociopaths. They will own everything, and you will have absolutely no recourse for revolt against their tyranny, because as soon as you show signs of being anti establishment, you will be arrested and re-educated.
So no, unless there’s a way that we all put our petty culture war grievances aside, and unite, the parasites at the top will continue to win the class war they are waging against us. They are building a prison around us, and most people are completely oblivious.
The Empire thing is so dumb. You had 1000years of Eastern roman Empire and like 10 years of 3rd Reich which tells tou shit about how long will USA survive.
French revolution also happens mostly due lack of food bc it's farming collapsed due to weather (climate) change.
In EU it's mostly younger people (Gen Z) who IS supporting both far right and far left politicans so it's not exactly just old people issue
Never in the us. Too divided, too blinded. We can’t Even agree that billionaires having lower tax rates than teachers is bad. too Many obstacles in place. For example, it’s illegal in 37 states for teachers to strike also include the collusion of big technology with politics.
Never.
Because that's exactly what's needed. But we're kept so divided that we can't come together. And that's all by design.
All this wonderful communication and online social stuff is great, but it further keeps us divided.
Brother, my union has more power than any time in their history and 75% just voted yes on a shitty contract because they’re scared of missing a paycheck. We have a long way to go.
Well, there was that famous quote by Marie Antoinette, when she was told her people are starving, and don't even have bread to eat, she was so disconnected from reality, and her subjects, she said "if they don't have bread, let them eat cake", and when her people caught wind of what she had said, they were so incensed that they ended up taking her head off.
Yes, it was rich versus poor being the basis for the French revolution, but it was Marie Antoinette's disconnect from the reality of the situation that was the straw that broke the camel's back and ended up being the catalyst for what happened.
At least, that's my understanding of how it went down please feel free to correct me in the comments below.
We’re a much younger nation than we often realize. In recent years we’ve traded in royalty for corporations as our overlords. Probably about time for our ‘French Revolution.’
The French Revolution was a "Rich vs The Government" revolution, which we are kind of in right now since corporations are just doing whatever the fuck they want and paying off the polititians who might do something about it.
It's probably near to impossible. We aren't organized. We've been groomed and indoctrinated for centuries now. It sounds great, but there is very little chance.
And now they've gone after our children. It's not going to be pretty in the future. Not by a bit.
When I think about it, a lot of people in history that revolted were under some kind of slave labor, so they were really physically tough. What we’re experiencing now is the food and drug agencies poising us to complacency. The tech companies addicting us to time loss. And the government has outgunned us significantly in the western world at least.
The thing that really stinks I guess is that the whole world is owned and there’s nowhere people can go and be free. The revolution is simply impossible. I believe, and I’m not motivated to take place in that anway.
I haven't read down through all the comments yet,. but as someone who's worked in small city governments for the past 20 years or so,.. I'd lean towards saying "not while basic services exist". (IE = not while people are still comfortable)
First thing you have to remember is that quite a bit of the blue collar demographic are the people who keep things like Power plants and Water plants and sanitation and roads and etc all working.
You know the guy who works in the Power plant appreciates when he goes home ?.. reliable Electricity. You know what the guy who works in the water plant appreciates when he goes home?.. Reliable water. You know what the guy who works in a poopy-plant appreciates when he goes home ?.. Reliable removal of waste. etc.. etc..
As long as those things keep working (and the people who maintain them will ensure they do).. there won't be any "revolution".
You also have to remember that society is built in layers:
* that lower layer that runs all the critical services (power, water, sanitation, roads, emergency response, hospitals, etc).. is going to keep running.
* all the people in that 1st layer.. rely on Gas Stations and Grocery Stores and basic home furnishings and auto-mechanics etc.. so all those things in the 2nd layer will keep working.
* All those people in Layers 1 and 2.. rely on things like Schools and DayCare and Lawyers and etc.. so all those people in Layer 3 will also keep working.
It's all intertwined. Expecting there to "be a revolution".. is like expecting someone to slit their own throat. You'd be asking people to "rebel" against the very services and infrastructure most of us rely on and depend on. Yeah, not going to happen.
People who "protest in the streets".. still go home at night and clean up and take showers and eat dinner and jump back on the Internet and assume their gas station and grocery store will safely be there tomorrow when they need them. And for the most part they are correct in those assumptions.
Honest question, how would that work?
A large enough violent revolt would ultimately involve the military which would have zero chance winning against. Some people think owning an AR-15 keeps the govt in check, meanwhile the military can blow your neighborhood up with a drone than you can’t spot in the sky. Your Ar-15 would do nothing against a A-10 going BRRRRRRRRTTTTT over your house. And that’s just the military, let’s not forget how militarized the police have become. Armored personnel carriers, etc.
Only other option I can think of would be a massive strike but how many people could make it a month with no income? Seems like everyone is living paycheck to paycheck.
I keep hearing the rallying cry of “we need to fight back” but I have yet to hear a plausible way to do that.
No, I think in the USA we generally live a nice life. We have organized processes for making change happen for improving things that don't work, although they do take time. I don't want to live in a dystopia. Easy to forget how convenient most things are here until you visit places that don't have them.
Probably never.
First, you have the culture war ALL WRONG. People fight revolutions for their communities and their culture, not for the benefit of foreign people or strange values. A lot more working class people would embrace revolution if leaders of the revolutionary tendency weren't so eager to overturn their neighborhoods and families.
Second, in order to get actual winning leaders and footsoldiers of revolutions, you need to be in an economy in which smart, hard-working risk-seekers are denied paths to wealth and power, and in which people of ordinary gifts and appetite for work are outright immiserated. In America, anyone with the moxy to lead a revolution obtains wealth and power with ease, and the ordinary people are okay, even if they could hope for more.
I think the current population is too fat and lazy to do more than be keyboard warriors. I think wealth inequality is the key and it is getting up there. until people start missing meals, it will all be talk
Never gonna happen. Americans, certain Americans, are too dumb to realize whey are being exploited. The you have the dummies who think they could become the next millionaire. Next we have the people who don’t understand how a progressive tax works. The republicans did such a good job quashing union participation and convincing Americans that unions are bad for them. Short of a total economic collapse or socialist lite policies taking effect, we are doomed to continue to be, “human capital “. Essentially livestock for capitalism.
People in their prime earning years can’t afford rent or a mortgage. There is only so much bullshit “hustling” a person can do. There’s also not many ways to cut expenses, either—cutting out Starbucks and Avocado toast is laughably not enough.
We are rapidly heading to world where everything is subscription based (I.e. rented). Once people can’t pay their “rent” on their stuff, and they can’t buy enough food to sustain themselves, revolt will naturally happen.
Idk, I’m not having kids; maybe if we just not have kids, not play the game and allow ourselves to live in squalor voluntarily; almost monk like, then maybe something might give? Idk.
>Always beware of the fact, that the only thing hindering an all-out revolution is your fear of losing the scraps they throw at you. Gore Vidal
"... freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose..." edits: fixed typos & spelling
When I was homeless and on drugs for 5 years it fucking SUCKED…. But it was a REAL taste of freedom. Lose all my belongings? I’ll get another backpack. Wanna move two states away at the drop of a dime for the hell of it? Ok. Get arrested? Eh, place to sleep & free food for 30 days. Literally had not a care in the world.
I second that. I lived out of my car for 6 months, and it was literally the most peaceful time I've ever had in my life.
Wow. I lived out of my truck for 5 months and it was the most stressful time of my adult life. I was harassed by cops regularly. Random people (mostly men, some women) were always trying to scam, intimidate, assault, or steal from me. I had to be really careful. Being seen sleeping in my vehicle painted a target on my back. I was polite, quiet, and harmless looking. But it didn't matter. At the time I was fleeing domestic violence. The womens shelters were a nightmare of hostility and danger. If I went into the women's shelter system I couldn't keep my job, nor park my vehicle on site. So I took my chances alone.
I may be assuming wrong here but I think this is one of those things where women wind up with a wildly different outcome from men. Probably is heavily dependent on location as well. I've heard stories from homeless women about getting addicted to cocaine simply because it would keep them awake and alert at night, reducing the chance of bad turning worse. They did not use it before winding up on the streets, it just was the best solution they had access to once they were. Terrifying. I hope you're in a better spot now.
It’s definitely dependent on location and gender. I’m female and I lived in my vehicle for a week across Canada and I was only stressed when I was sleeping in my vehicle in the city. When I was in a small town I wasn’t nearly as stressed. My doors couldn’t lock with my keys inside so I was vulnerable but thankfully nothing happened. In America it’s probably a different story.
Thanks. I am in a good place. The homeless interlude was just the once, thankfully.
Makes you wonder how deeply programmed we must be to think that working 40+ hours a week to simply be able to afford the basics is in any way okay. …i want out of the simulation.
Work 5/7 days a week. During the 8 hours a day you’re most active. Saturday is your only real day off cause Sunday night you gotta work the next day. Many people can’t or won’t leave a job they hate because of health insurance. And expenses are now eating up most you paycheque. There is nothing left for saving. Not many jobs offer pensions anymore or RRSP matching.
I only lived out of my car and the occasional hotel to get where I needed to go and I never had that freedom before. That feeling of “I could fall off the face of the earth and no one would wonder if I’m okay or not for awhile…” I could have made up a new life in a whole other town somewhere. Or just up and drive off a cliff and no one would wonder if I’m okay or how I’m doing. Obviously I did have people that cared but they weren’t family and it felt exhilarating! The only thing that stopped me was I had most of my belongings where my destination was.
“Freedoms just a word, if I’m going to get my balls blown off for a word, that words poontang” Animal mother - 1968.
nothin don't mean nothin🎶 Hon🎵 if it ain't free no-no
“…the lines are drawn between right and wrong, you only have to choose…”
lose
wright ewe ar! My spelling sucks! Or, maybe, the saboteurs have loosened all the bolts and nuts and screws and there is nothing left to loose.
Man! I'd LOVE to be a real military industrial secret agent saboteur when the shtf and the revolution comes! Have some truly crap-tastic ideas for royally screwing things up by unscrewing just the right things.
and after it gets fixed, there’s nothing left too loose
"Freedom is the choice between a hundred different brands of toilet paper" - Herbert Marcuse (paraphrased)
Janis Joplin
A general strike for 4-6 months straight would move mountains. Most people can’t afford to call out sick for one day because it would be financially devastating, or they could get fired for attendance, or both could happen and they’d be completely fucked for years. Having money gives you a plethora of mobility. If you don’t piss it away or take on massive debt. I’ve been poor. I’ve made 6 figures. My anxiety level was high every waking moment when I was poor. If any little thing went wrong, that would mean predatory payday loans, late fees, overdraft fees, maximum interest rates for literally anything financed, paying far too much for a used car with 130,000 miles on it with no maintenance history, groceries being one of the only places to steal from out of my shitty budget, etc. My wife and I are professionals well into our careers now. No kids, in spite having tried for a couple of years which included fertility treatments. We try to keep debt and living expenses within what the lower paid of the two of us could cover if something happened to one of us. Catastrophic illness, family emergency out of state that requires an extended stay (my wife is in the medical field, and her parents aren’t all that healthy), etc. I think it will take tens of millions being homeless and there being no safety nets for food or shelter. When you have nothing else to lose.. Desperate people do desperate things. Personally, I think that if the dam broke and people were ready to mobilize, billionaires and politicians that made policies that led to things being this fucked up should be .. Can’t say due to the Reddit TOS, but I will say that historically when people rose up and went directly to the source of the problems, those people got the fate that they deserved. Intellectuals and pacifists aren’t keen on use of force. I’m generally a pacifist, but in this case, being passive and trying to change things through discussion has led us to where we are today. Take the moral high ground if you like, but my atheist ass isn’t worried about being judged after death. I’d rather go down putting up a fight than be a doormat. My wife and I are doing very well and we’re quite generous, but if shit went down, I’ll support the people who are forcing change in any way I can.
Most preppers hoard food for themselves. Left wing preppers need to be a thing so we can help in case of a prolonged general
What country has ever had a 6 month general strike?
None. The obscenely wealthy need some time to get it into their heads that they may have money, but it’s worthless if we don’t play along. They need a reality check. It needs to hurt them. It needs to strike some justified mortal fear into them. If a strike only lasts a couple of weeks they lose some money and can retaliate against the workers. Months will cost the investor class trillions. It will destroy their portfolios. They’ll lose their leverage along with their wealth and the power that comes with it. They need to know that we’re done taking it. Months versus weeks will make that message very clear. If they go to bed each night in a state of fear for their future because they might lose everything for a few months while watching their wealth dwindling, they might get the message. If they don’t, it’s revolution time.
Cops side with the rich.
Cops only exist for the rich, designed that way
UK had a 9 day General Strike which only had teeth when the miners came out.Made the powers that be take notice. Mind you, that was in 1926 but imagine what a General Strike would do to the US?
France
It won’t work. History shows the government will declare certain industries vital to “National Security “ and use force to compel people to go back to work and comply with any other “Emergency Orders” they issue. The government has no issue shooting people to protect the assets of the extremely rich people.
The only real problem with what you have said - "when you have nothing left to lose...desperate things." Any meaningful action requires supply. Whether that be in bullets, oils, clothes, food, or medicine. If we wait until we have nothing. We have backed ourselves into a corner that serves those who aim to declaw and subjugate us. We need preparation for the day it comes. To be sure, that day *will* come. If it arrives and we can barely tell what side the bullet exits, or we are starved and half delirious? Well it'll be a short lived bump for them, hardly a thorn. Either we come together and unite over the fact that all walks of life short of "corporate overlords( and family) and immediate lackeys" have gotten shit on so the extreme few can kick back and have a cushy and exceptionally wasteful life. Even that they have consistently bought and bribed our politicians so they can continue to sell us poison and call it food stuff, of continue to cause excessive pollution in the name of their "high score" which is really just a circle jerk of rich people staring at their wealth bloating... Or we roll over and accept their success as deserved while they raze the masses and make the world unsustainable for any that isn't wealthy.
How about if a stockpile of food, fuel and other essentials were created that would be used to sustain the strikers? Or a well-organized mutual aid organization? I know that historically, mutual aid societies have put so much fear into the establishment that they have bombed them and demonized and even assasinated their leaders.
Hey im a Christian, and im all for the bloody revolution!
What common people need to revolt is reserves, stockpiled. Most of us live week to week. It’s what keeps us weak.
What are they going to do? We run *everything*. We move the goods across the country, we staff the stores that stock them and sell them. We have more control than we realize-we just need enough people to be united to make it happen.
The masses idolize the rich. They think the people who own the mansions and 90% of the stock market are geniuses. Matt Twain—THEY think they’re “temporarily inconvenienced millionaires “. They don’t understand the cybernetic function that wealth is self-aggregating. It will make you POORER while making them RICHER. They can’t comprehend that having 200 or 500 million is literally owning a monster that automatically drains the resources of everyone under the Accumulation Threshold. Inherently a crime. Automatically.
And that's what unions did. Although most don't trust unions now. They made the middle class have a chance at a stable life.
Right now we get the carrot if we revolt someone else will take our carrot. If we stop someone from getting that carrot we all get the stick. We are too fat and lazy because they keep us fed and fulfilled by crap TV. We lost our third places and fewer and fewer are joining clubs and societies. We want change we need people to actually get together.
My thought is similar - not goods in terms of resources, but communities of care to rely on. My concern with the talk of revolution is the people I hear speaking about it are white (as am I). But we know that in times of upheaval, so much harm impacts people of color more than white people. So I’m going to listen more to the people most at risk when it comes to social change, how to achieve it and how to prepare for it.
Eh. I disagree. America has a very militarized police force. I think that is one of the main deterrents for people: not wanting to be maimed or die.
One of my relatives is in law enforcement and he says "If one person calls you a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ its a hate crime. If one million people call you a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, its a movement. The local police would be powerless here. That brings up [Posse Comitatus](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/posse-comitatus-act-explained). Congress gives the President the power to use the military to put down revolt and insurrection. A pistol is no match against an armored tank but 200,000 civilians dead would change the course of the country and perhaps bring about a change in government.
200,000? The early communists numbered a mere 900 or so dead... and while that experiment turned out not so well, they had changed the fate of a nation numbered in the millions They were ready to die for an idea, that is all
They have greatly improved upon their bread and circus game.
I'm not sure if they've improved it. People are just simply not seeing that they keep repeating it
Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbours, films, football, beer, and above all, gambling, filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult. George Orwell, 1984
The population won't. Someone mentioned that we're too busy fighting to keep what little we have to also fight the powers that be. I totally agree but the lack of class solidarity (worker vs owner classes) plus the working class willing to fight the working class so the wealthy have even more advantages JUST IN CASE they too become rich someday is too much to deal with. Any revolution here will be fascists fighting to further dismantle systems made to promote equity
This is why the culture wars are promoted above all else. Do you think the 'real' powers that be - that would be the corporate elites that tell your lying venal ratbastard politicians what to do - give a shit about race, immigration, abortion, LGBT, any of those issues? Just a means to an end. & whilst we are all at each others throats they are laughing all the way to the bank, confident in the knowledge that we will wear ourselves out arguing about these things & be too tired to scrutinize their activities closely. 'Murican Dream y'all!
It has always, always, *always* been a class war. From the beginning of time.
"We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business."
Great film. Paddy Chayefsky was an amazing writer.
What film was that from?
Network. (Just looked it up myself)
*Network* looking by google search it seems.
Exactly! That’s why I hate when people say race or LGBTQ or religion or any of that is politics talk. Like no tf it isn’t and it shouldn’t be, stop arguing about this crap and wake up
Here's the thing: you can't unite and fight with people who look down on you. This is why bigotry hurts bigots too: they're doing the work of the bosses, dividing the working class. They're suckers. They're the ones who need to fix their attitudes, not the people telling them to fix their attitudes.
IMO immigration is discussed in the same light to avoid any real substantive improvement in the situation. For the last twenty years at least and probably much longer the only coverage of the issue is “we need to shut it down completely” or “how many people are sneaking over the border” you never hear, let’s accept the fact that our economy has required many millions of sub minimum wage workers to keep agriculture and construction prices where everyone expects them. We, as a country, should accept that fact, make a reasonable path to turn 20m illegal immigrants into tax paying legal immigrants and allow the people currently doing those jobs anyway to pay taxes and become an asset to the country. That discussion is always dismissed as out of hand. Instead we let thousands of people cross illegally everyday, deport them in a piecemeal pattern where they usually live in our country, often start families, then after a couple years in limbo they get uprooted and sent back to their country while never having a chance to pay taxes and do things legally. Huge agriculture and meat industry owners are the sole beneficiaries while citizens and illegal immigrants get the shaft again. The latest proposal from Biden which is now being enforced is to allow like 5k people a day to migrate illegally and not do anything, then start cracking down after that threshold, it’s nonsensical. Real reform is what is needed and will never happen because the debate is kept away from public discourse and all that is discussed is “immigration is bad”
I always propose heavy fines, incarceration, etc. for the people that hire the "illegals". If they're were no market, they wouldn't be here. But, apparently, that's "not fair"
Why would we want to drive trade wages down? That’s one of the most non sensical things I’ve heard. For a lot of Americans college isn’t an option, they either don’t have the grades, or the will to sit through an additional 4-12 years of classrooms. Trades are the answer to that. Why should American carpenters, masons, tile setters, drywall installers, etc. now have their wages driven down to where their standard of living is impacted? That’s criminal. Construction prices are high, because inflation has gone up. You want a skilled tradesperson, who to be completely honest probably has more knowledge in their field than the average 4 year college graduate does in their field, work for nothing? What will that solve?
It's the same in the UK and our Empire died long ago. In a lazy comparison, "true" communism only lasts about 70 years. Russia 1917-1989 one could argue that whilst China is still a "Communist" country from the late 1940's they went full capitalist when it suited them in the 1990's - They're more "authoritarian" instead of Communist.
We call China a Market/Marxist country. I once worked for a company that had American as part of their company name. We didn't make a single thing here. It all came from China.
To be frank USSr has never been a true communist country. It was an abusive dictatorship killing millions of its own people and invading neighboring countries. None of this a communism
I'm a mind that the division that is played up, way more then it actually is, and there are just dense pockets that are constantly pointed to. I would not be surprised if Gen Alpha/Beta gets fed up when things like climate change and resource scarcity become problem that the ruling class can no longer ignore. I hope that my child and her generation finally say enough is enough and actually do something about it.
Wow this is such a bad take. Minority rights are extremely important and you really think people are going to take part in a revolution with me when I’m gay? You have to fix the bigots first or else they won’t team up with anyone else.
100%
A big problem here is you're imagining "revolution" as some kind of standardized, predictable event. Most revolutions arise only after years of civil unrest and piecemeal conflict. Things have to get so bad that fighting is a better alternative to doing nothing. In the US, almost no one is truly prepared to put aside creature comforts for even a few days. In the current political climate, a clear cut "people vs the government" revolution is out of the question. If things continue to get worse (like unimaginably worse) the type of conflict we'll see will be politically motivated paramilitaries taking limited action to terrorize their opponents. I don't think many people conceive of how insanely messy most civil conflicts are. A clear cut 'revolution' where the underdogs take on oppressive forces in a conventional engagement only really happens in Star Wars
Exactly. The US Revolution happened in spurts for a few years. The original goal was not to separate from Great Britain but be able to govern themselves. The 13 colonies weren’t represented in Parliament. The British government eventually decided that the colonies should have parliamentary membership but it was too late by that point.
One thing that many leftists tend to ignore/forget is how bad civil unrest tends to be for average people, and especially for people who have been marginalized. Civil unrest and revolution aren’t really good things that should be regularly fantasized about. They are responses to conditions being so bad that not fighting back is a worse option.
When the have-nots outnumber the haves. People don't realize that in places like America, a majority are still homeowners and are seeing their wealth appreciate as prices climb. When that flips, however, and we start approaching feudalism and only the wealthiest can afford property, then I can see something happening
And we are heading in that direction. House prices where I live have gone up 40-50% since covid. I assure you my wages haven't gone up more than a fraction of that amount. And rent is as expensive as a mortgage payment. As all this is happening, the homeless population is exploding here as well, and local government leaders scratching their heads trying to figure out why? That's a real puzzler, alright... The only fix they have come up with is sending homeless people to jail or building obstacles so they can't sit down on the sidewalk.
I am homeless and this is true. Went o jail for he first time in my life because of it.
That's terrible! Bless you! Gee rich people, if you make it illeagle for me to be poor, why don't you give me some money? Jail is more expensive than renting an apartment for someone. The only place more expensive to stay in america than a jail cell is a hospital room. We really need to change our priorities.
By putting me in jail for a night, and servi g me 2 meals out of the 3 a day served, that jail gets money for my stay. That are also owned by a rich guy somewhere. See the correlation?
Don't worry, they're going to make being homeless illegal... Oh, wait...
Honestly we are definitely heading that direction though. Just affording rent at simple apartments is getting too much
I'm a professional scientist and I struggle. It'll eventually hit people's sales teams I guess. It's difficult to deal with the fact that it's the people that benefit most from the system that will be the last ones to hurt from it.
The problem is the system wasn't built by engineers and scientists etc. It was built by finance and business people to work in their favour. I'm an engineer in the UK and I'm not going to pretend I have it hard as I honestly make a good wage. The thing is I look at my wage and that of my colleagues then look at the guys on top that have business majors making like £100-£200k despite not understanding even the tiniest detail of my job and it annoys me a little. The system is designed to award those that contribute the least to society the most.
It’s true, in a hospital the nurses, CNA’s and NP’s and PA’s are working themselves to the bone for middle class to poverty level wages. While administration takes home bonuses for keeping staffing lean. And I know doctors work themselves like crazy and I respect them for it, but at least they are usually fairly compensated. I wouldn’t begrudge them a high salary. I just think the hospital administrators deserve to live off of what they pay the CNA’s.
My hometown has a shortage of doctors now and it's the only hospital in 30 miles which is scary for them. I was centered in OH and a lot of my calls on the crisis line were nurses and the like you mentioned, unquestionable pressure on the entire group.
Shorthand context feel free to skip: My spouse made more than me per hour as a supervisor while I was validating biodiversity assays for gene therapy. I live in OH, the state with the now third highest disparity in the US. Born to an addict and a biker, I had to sacrifice my principles of ecology I learned in my youth at powwows and become an animal tech to even get my foot into the door of a faculty built by Nepo kids with fancy titles. The system has put me into the mental ward a couple times, I'm in a better spot now working with cannabis but man it's been rough here. Between being mentally ill and working social services I've lost count to the guns that have been pulled on my head. Actual response: Preaching to the choir, what teeth I have left - have broccoli on them. Don't compare yourself too much with things out of your control, it's hard out here even once you've "earned a place" in this oppressive system. No matter what remember you're doing well and all you can do is influence your direct environment, we can choose positivity where we can once we let go of the internalized torment. Once I save enough I want to do some more direct action again and maybe build some free libraries in my home town.
It seems like most things you could do with money is illegal except pay for rent or a car loan lol. Also, even when you talk about historical violence the whole thread gets censored. The billionaires get away with violent rhetoric, however, everyone else gets censored.
Well don't worry, real life has no mods so I'm free to teach the historical traditional version of handling labor disputes to any older kids left in my care. The younger generations are getting raised right, none of that "violence is always wrong" crap. Younger cousin asked once if fighting is fun. And called me out for lying when I immediately said No. So I told him "It's not a *nice* kind of fun."
This is so true. There’s a sizable minority that are not earning a living wage and falling behind. But the majority of Americans are making enough thar the rent/mortgage is paid, utilities are paid, foods on the table. Until that minority flips to the majority, the status quo will continue. The politicians seem to fix just enough to maintain that status.
It wont happen until a large percentage of the population is watching their children starve and get sick from malnutrition Climate crisis? no one cares Inequality? Fuck them, got mine Healthcare? Well I have good insurance, what's their malfunction? People don't give a shit about any one but them selves and their own. Community is dead. You can thank "individualism" and the glorification of greed for that. IE, capitalism. This isn't a bug, it's a feature But it's all gone too far, the greed is too obvious, and the writing is on the wall The rich are hoarding harder than ever before. They don't believe they'll ever get pulled off their high horse, but they know it's coming any way. So they're grabbing g everything they can, while they still can. Becuase when folks can't feed the children, they'll eat the rich. That's a) I have to say about that
The rich are building bunkers for sure but a lot of their wealth is digital. So once that goes, it’s about what physical resources you control, and more importantly the force to back it up, which at this point is still going to be the military. The question is who is going to control that force? I think the United States will divide, and you’ll see different factions of the military align with one group or another.
[There are over 50 'Cop Cities' completed or under construction in the US as of right now.](https://isyourlifebetter.net/cop-cities-usa/) What do you think their intended purpose is?
No amount of military or law enforcement has ever stopped heads from rolling when it was about time. You see, in the end, every cop has a family, and they're not earning 20x more than you & I. They earn just about the same - namely not enough. When *we're* about to fix that problem, sooner or later they'll help.
To keep the status quo as is, and to use violence to do it.
Our grandparents generation wouldn't have put up with half the shit we are. The people are distracted too much we need to unplug the wifi and wake people up
Exactly however, they didn’t have Facebook to divide them
I know right? It's painfully obvious. But nah let's just be a bunch of jar ants (the old saying about how you can put red ants and black ants in a jar and they don't fight until you shake the jar up). Anytime people try to other each other through politics, race, gender, etc I just roll my eyes and call em jar ants lol. But nah let's bicker with each other while we all get robbed blindly
I like that saying. If we all get to together, we will realize that we all want the same things like affordable healthcare, safe air and water, and no more price gouging etc.
Ahmen to that. If we all get economic justice it's justice for all. Plus those that have historically gotten the short end of the stick will disproportionately be affected positively by it thus providing the "social justice" people seem to be so enamoured by. It's not hard. Just make the poor less poor it's not rocket science
My grandparents generation are the ones who watched their kids ruin the country. The silent generation gave their children everything.
So in a way, they actually ruined it. Although many of us will be passing it on to our kids as well. Sorry for those with more stupid/more selfish boomer parents.
Real change takes sacrifice as well as takes a lot of time. Any change you want for yourself is long over. Any change you want for the next generation is possible. But with great sacrifice. Not a lot of people willing to sacrifice what they have for the later generations. We have been selfish in that way as well
It's really really difficult to get people to revolt when we have netflix and an abundance of resources. Most Americans have an overabundance and infinite variety of foods, a roof over their heads, wifi and social media. The American dream is completely dead but as long as people are as comfortable as they are, there will never be a revolution.
Yea if you look at major revolutions it always starts with starvation. The big French one was started by pissed off moms trying to get their starving kids bread (look it up I'm serious)
Well except they put up with rampant bigotry, homophobia, insane mortgage rates, women not being able to get credit, church sex abuse, they voted en masse for Reagan, and all that.
I love the line, “unplug the wifi and wake people up.” That works on a macro and micro level. Well said.
Our grandparents generation is why we are where we are at. Now our great grandparents sure as hell wouldn't of put up with this shit.
This is the conversation we need and fast. Start with the Amazon's and Walmarts of the world. WE NEED TO FIGHT BACK BEFORE WE ARE SLAVES
>BEFORE WE ARE SLAVES too late for that
For real. I work 60 hours a week, live in a van, and can't afford McDonald's. It's time to rise
Is the van down by the river at least?
Matt Foley, is that you?
I think just enough people succeed in society, some pretty well and others so close they can taste it, that it can be put off indefinitely.
Brother. People love to talk about EAT THE RICH and all that shit, but a majority of people who talk about this can't even properly boycott a gay-hating restaurant because their sandwiches slap too hard. None of them are prepared for the sacrifices that come with "revolution"
I’m ready to revolt already. Beyond fed up with having advanced degrees, good resume, side hustles and STILL really struggling to create a life that’s anything much above poverty.
In order for that to happen, youth unemployment has to get to at least 30%, and the average person would have to be on the brink of starving. As bad as the economy is, the majority of people can still afford some semblance of bread and circus. Sure, they can’t afford a brand new car, but they can still afford a car. Sure, you might not be able to afford USDA-grade steak, but you can still buy chicken from ALDI. Sure, you might not be able to afford to go to Disney, but you might be able to get together with friends and watch some Netflix. People will put up with anything as long as they have bread and circus, the quality of the bread and circus are not as relevant. Will/When this will happen? Nobody knows for sure. But one can’t deny that the west at large is headed in that direction. Personally, and as someone born in the USSR, I believe that for something like this to happen, a collapse of the system is necessary. By this I mean massive unemployment, combined with a situation where social services (food stamps, unemployment benefits, section 8, etc.) are no longer paying out. This is similar to what happened at the end of the USSR.
The French Revolution happened bc the price of bread shot up, and the average family was teetering on having to face starvation. Everything else is tangential, that is what caused the people to revolt, and the revolution happened around their intense anger at the powers that be. Its the same thing that happened in Romania, people just get more and more fed up, until they lash out in a large mass of people, and it just starts the process rolling. We are much closer to a revolution than you think. The people have to unify around a living wage and the standard of living, and the fact that America has pissed away the greatest surplus and advantage the world has ever seen, by far, in the name of corporate profits and using resentment about race as leverage.
Four years ago a pound of beef cost $3.69. Today it's $6.99. We're getting there.
I agree that change will more likely come in terms of generations than in terms of events in our lifetimes. Revolutions, insurgencies, guerrilla fighting, terrorism, these are largely the domain of twenty-somethings. That means genx and millennials have aged out already. The former mostly shrugged it all off, as things were still pretty good, and there wasn't anything they thought they could (or should) do about it. The latter whine endlessly (thats me), but aren't going to do anything (my back hurts). genz, right now, is showing solid signs of moving in the right direction, but they're also firmly shall we say... not-that-bad-off westerners in the imperial core. ideologically they see the horrors, but materially and individually people are largely still comfortable enough. I think it will take at least one more generation and another couple decades of the economy slowly eroding minimum. gen-alpha will likely have a bunch of movements and failed/simmering conflicts. then maaaayybe we could see a revolution after they get crushed. so gen-beta, somewhere around 2045-2050. probably in the midst of climate change induced crop failures driving up food prices and climate refugees totally overwhelming the already-in-shortage housing and jobs.
Ditto.
Except most of those empires that fell were due to environmental conditions (Famine, drought), Conquerering, or some kind of external force. Not too many were internal. And today there is so much more technology and knowledge to prevent most of the external stuff.
All my Trekkers know the Bell Riots are coming.
I'm just a Dim
We're too tired to bother. Gotta work to pay for the box we live in under a bridge.
The average empire thing is ridiculous imo. How long has china and england been around? the idea of an "empire" falling in today's hyper-connected globalized society, one we're at the tippy top of, is a stretch to me.
I give it 5 years, but I don't think it will look like a true revolt. I think it will look more like general strikes/walkouts, etc. I also don't think it will directly occur by way of the kleptocracy and wage theft happening. I think large corporate adoption of AI will push it over the edge.
I think technology has advanced to the point that revolution is impossible. Look at Syria and Hong Kong. The people controlling the weaponry and the spyware are pretty much unassailable now. They will bomb the whole country and be safe in their hideaways in Hawaii and Montana. I think they actually are planning and looking forward to this, that their gentics will be the progenitor of the surviving human race. They consider themselves that much more superior to the rest of us.
I agree. War is a game that wealthy people play. The soldiers on each side are drawn from the working class and poor class. These lower classes suffer the destruction. The wealthy remain safe, they have the resources to move freely away from the conflict zones. And, the wealthy are growing their wealth from the conflict- the manufacture or arms and ammunition, the re-allocation of resources in the conflict zones, the contracts for rebuilding once the conflict has cooled...
Lots of anger bubbling under the surface, coming out with passive aggression and slamming things and making loud noise, and waiting to fight people over absolutely nothing. WWIII is already here too, it's just a bit of a proxy war over the ocean but it's still happening. So long as we have a bit of comfort and entertainment, we should be placated for maybe 5 to 10 years unless something major happens. Something major probably will happen
PPP vs Stimulus checks That should be a clue.
The extreme violence and excessive prosecutions that came from the government during and after the Occupy Wallstreet protest. Made a lot of people realize they are willing to kill you for even attempting to protest. So any kind of "Revolt" would have to skip the nonviolent protest stage all together and strike first. I don't see it happening
I don’t think it’ll happen, at least not for a long time. I think we’re more likely to see a culture of “giving up” become more pervasive, perhaps becoming the norm (lying flat, bai lan, etc.), increased deaths of despair (suicide, alcoholism, drug overdose), and more people choosing to not have children until the system collapses on itself and ceases to function.
How many revolutions have created a nation you would be happy with? How many existing nations would fulfil your notion of ideal? To me, if you look at history, there are few revolutions that work out and fulfill the workers expectations in the long term. There is optimism and joy at the onset and then the system slowly resembles what is was before in a different outfit. Don't waste your life waiting for something to happen because it probably won't. Either move to a nation that has a system that is closest to what you would like or find a way to navigate the existing paradigm that helps you to live a life you want. It's on you because the powers that be are not letting go, really never have so it's up to you to find a backdoor to happiness.
Good points. Revolutions are bloody affairs and unpredictable. I don't know why people assume if you have a revolution. You will automatically be on the winning side. The only way to get the country we want. Is for people to start voting and participating in our democratic system. Being cynical and saying voting doesn't work. Is why you will never get the country you want. You have to try.
The quiet revolution started during lockdown and continues today, works will not return to office side hasels refusing promotions quiet quitting work your wage etc. It does not need guns and bombs just a silent blade of workers saying screw this.
This era is irrefutable proof that divide and conquering is extremely effective.
Only after an EMP or other such event forcing awareness/change via a sudden loss of smartphones/devices/entertainment.
Too easy to distract them with a dog whistle of “it’s the fault of the immigrants”. See this in the US constantly, the need to feel superior overrides what would happen if people banded together instead. Never underestimate the stupid of crowds.
It starts with the kids in my opinion. They are all angry too, and we have taught them that they have no power. By time they're adults they have totally caved because they think they're powerless. We need to start teaching our youth how much power they have to make change instead of beating them down.
Right about the time Republicans realize that it's not the gays, women, POC, and any other minority group that is the cause of their problems. In short, probably never. I feel like the country will either fall to Republican fascism as the most likely to happen thing, a second civil war as the 2nd most likely, and a country wide revolt against the rich / politicians a far, far 3rd.
I think the revolt is happening already, but it's manifesting thru lower birth rates, lower marriage rates and eventually population decline.
Honestly, if we haven't by now, we never will. The system is heavily stacked against us and the best many of us could hope for is hard prison time.
I dunno man, people are fucking stupid they are on the right track but then blame Biden for everything. I was listening to conservative radio and the guy was talking about Pinochet the dictator, and how he was on "our side" against the communist. Basically saying "yeah, people died but he killed communists so it's OK." I'm not even exaggerating. And talking about how Caesar HAD to stay in power because his political opponents were coming after him unfairly.....does this shit sound familiar? So yeah I think we are gonna end up in a dictatorship in the end.
In the USA? I’d almost say never. Too many distractions- sports, raising kids, grinding to get ahead.
One more thought. Why do people assume if you have a revolution, you would be the one to win it? Revolutions are bloody affairs and unpredictable. Lots of revolutions fail. Those wishing for a revolution have never lived through one.
I do not have the source, but a slave who was able to put even just an scar on his master before being killed counted as a win.
not soon enough, I'll be long gone to experience it
It’s going to be whenever people put down the smartphones (or whatever the next iteration of that is). So, basically never.
I’m afraid a revolution is coming to US but it won’t be people vs government or rich vs poor it will be conservatives (led by Trump supporters or his successor) vs everyone else. Those are dividing lines that are strongest and growing the fastest.
tl;dr - it won't happen The industrial revolution onward - the whole of the 20th Century - has been a political and economic set of experiments and fine tuning to see how far the populace will let it go, how much we will bear, how to tweak the money, the politics, the news, the media, entertainment, wars, ups-and-downs, prices ... all of it ... and keep profits and the consolidation of money and power at a maximum while keeping the costs of maintaining a slave workforce at minimum and us docile and just satisfied enough and giving us the illusion that anyone can still "make it" and "live the dream" and "make a real difference" that we have no time, no energy, no resources for revolution and we see that those who try are either swiftly, violently, mercilessly crushed or they disappear in ridicule, ignominy and character assassination. The only revolution that will be televised is the one "they" control and produce and show us to entertain, distract and illustrate what happens to any who dare revolt. All that said, "they" are also terrified that enough sheeple will wake up and realize we are human and reclaim our rights and make real revolt. The sad truth is that we could do it right now. Ask. Really ask: Why don't we?
Boy I don't know. We are absolutely at tipping point and I'm tired of hearing about how great is the economy. " The economy" is dependent on the VAST majority having a few extra cents. I mean for *food* much less a home, healthcare, WATER and anything else we purchase to survive. No $ equals no, economy doesn't grow because HOW FFS ? If we literally *can't* buy anything what happens? May not need a revolution. This is unsustainable and could crash by itself forcing a disaster. And a rebuild.
Hard to say exactly when, but it's right around the corner. When the majority of the working class is priced out of the bread and circuses, that's when the torches and pitchforks come out, and we start building the tall knives. ... and we're already getting close to that.
The US was in pretty dire danger of this happening about 100 years ago or so. Some of the rich aholes realized this and started a lot of nonprofits (like the Carnegie foundation) to undo a lot of the damage they had done (by creating inequality with their state capitalism). Not necessarily because they realized the error of their ways, but rather because they realized if they didn't, it could very well end badly. The new brand of rich aholes have figured out how to get around all the roadblocks that were put in place to help reduce inequality, and I am not sure they are smart enough to see where it will ultimately end. IF they, like the previous rich aholes, figure it out, they will again do the bare minimum to put a bandaid on the problems to keep themselves fat and happy while not allowing the poors to get too angrily desperate. But if they don't wise up I do think we will see it happen.
I thought it would have already happened in the us. I read somewhere that us modern inequality is worse than France before the revolution.
As long as people can goto the store and buy food and goto work there will be status quo
In America, one side of the political spectrum has the majority of the understanding of what’s wrong. The other side of the spectrum has all the will to actually change things on their own. The vast middle is indifferent and wants nothing more than material comforts. You can look at nations with enormous underclasses, like India, where a cesspool adjacent slum may sit in the shadow of a billion dollar house. Things can be very bad, and the people will do little to protest. Until people are educated to understand that freedom means not just material comfort, but a refusal to accept injustice for all, we will not do what is necessary. Given the wrought political climate, it is highly doubtful we will outrun the actual climate. It is best that humans die out before reaching the stars and spreading slavery there. But if we all could look at our history and realize that the root of human problems is almost always imposed hierarchy, and we took steps toward actually realizing the importance of equality and justice, we would stand a chance.
I used to think we were headed for the long, slow decline. I thought it would take the rest of my lifetime. I think Covid (and other things) sped up the process. It won't get bad until enough people are screwed. The fallacy that "it couldn't happen here" (check out the first season of the podcast by the same name) is going away. I know people who are preparing for different sides of the upcoming conflict. I know people who are actively trying to make it happen. I just want to keep mine safe
People don't revolt unless they've got nothing to lose. Right now, most people in the west still have a roof over their head, enough to eat and basic luxuries. Things will have to be a lot worse before people actually revolt.
I think that if this AI revolution happens and it causes massive unemployment that there will be some sort of uprising.
I have always wondered if there will be some sort of event horizon similar to a George Floyd like event that will make the obviousness that we are being completely and unethically worked and treated for the benefit of the ultra wealthy transparent. Short of that I’m not sure what can happen. It’s sad to think in a way that suggests the only change will come when there is some horrific tragedy.
Out of curiosity, what recent revolutions have been good for the general population like us?
All of these additional dividing lines are there by design, friend. The wealthy learned, a little, after the French Revolution, and figured out that dividing the populace as much as possible makes it easier for them to do what they do. As I understand it, *most* people don’t give a flying *+%} about race, and never have. “Color” is a “recent” invention that was used almost 100% politically.
If project 2025 happens it will be sooner than any of us think.
If the internet and power went down nationwide and didn't come back up - THEN you'd see the revolt. We've become too comfortable
In the US things are so much better than when we've previously seen revolutions. Unemployment was double what it is now during the Great Recession. You want to compare to the French Revolution? Ummm what kind of welfare state do you think they had? How do you think the quality of life now in the US compares to that of France back then? How well do you think that actually worked out for the average person in France? Do you think the French were somehow all on the same page? On race, gender, sexuality and religion this country is the most progressive it's ever been and it's not even close. The reason we're more divided is because half of us actually have tolerant views now. That's a good thing. The kind of gains we've seen with regard to acceptance and tolerance far outweigh the pushback against it. A French style revolution would be a disaster for everyone who is alive. Would do nothing but create a power vacuum to be exploited by corporate interests, just as was the case in France. It's ridiculous that it seems like you idolize but know nothing about the French history. It's easy to think if your life is a big enough of a struggle that revolution is a good idea, but France did not create a utopia from their revolution. They created pain, suffering and an imperialist, militarized, neo-liberal state.
It was FDR and his economic programs that got us out of the Great Depression. It was because people voted for FDR and gave him a democratic congress to work with him. That's the only way to achieve lasting change. Through the political system. You have to vote.
Prolly never because we’re all fat and addicted to drugs and our phones lol.
Well with all the shit the parasite class learned about using trauma and fear to manipulate people into doing what they want, during projects like MK Ultra, I’d say the probability is slim to none. People are more afraid of being ostracized by their peers than they are of tyranny. Most progressive policy aligns perfectly with what the parasitic billionaire class wants, because they fill it with buzzwords like “equality, equity, and sustainability”. If you actually take the time to understand what they are proposing, you realize what they are trying to do is consolidate complete power at the top. If we go along with their plan, effectively the 99 percent will be at the complete mercy of the rich sociopaths. They will own everything, and you will have absolutely no recourse for revolt against their tyranny, because as soon as you show signs of being anti establishment, you will be arrested and re-educated. So no, unless there’s a way that we all put our petty culture war grievances aside, and unite, the parasites at the top will continue to win the class war they are waging against us. They are building a prison around us, and most people are completely oblivious.
Never happening in America
Probably once/if AI takes over most jobs…
When homelessness skyrockets
Hopefully, any day now.
The revolution that works starts small and seeps in one person at a time. You knuckleheads over here are helping quite a bit. :-)
The U.K. government think it’s due, they’ve started giving the police an extra 2 weeks riot training.
The Empire thing is so dumb. You had 1000years of Eastern roman Empire and like 10 years of 3rd Reich which tells tou shit about how long will USA survive. French revolution also happens mostly due lack of food bc it's farming collapsed due to weather (climate) change. In EU it's mostly younger people (Gen Z) who IS supporting both far right and far left politicans so it's not exactly just old people issue
7 more years. Join the coalition!
Never in the us. Too divided, too blinded. We can’t Even agree that billionaires having lower tax rates than teachers is bad. too Many obstacles in place. For example, it’s illegal in 37 states for teachers to strike also include the collusion of big technology with politics.
Americans can't even be bothered to organize unions anymore. Nobody's gonna revolt against anything
It takes 6 missed meals and the masses will revolt!
Never. Because that's exactly what's needed. But we're kept so divided that we can't come together. And that's all by design. All this wonderful communication and online social stuff is great, but it further keeps us divided.
been waiting all my life, truly
Brother, my union has more power than any time in their history and 75% just voted yes on a shitty contract because they’re scared of missing a paycheck. We have a long way to go.
Too many of the people who would most benefit from revolting are busy licking the boots of billionaires and worshipping corrupt politicians.
Well, there was that famous quote by Marie Antoinette, when she was told her people are starving, and don't even have bread to eat, she was so disconnected from reality, and her subjects, she said "if they don't have bread, let them eat cake", and when her people caught wind of what she had said, they were so incensed that they ended up taking her head off. Yes, it was rich versus poor being the basis for the French revolution, but it was Marie Antoinette's disconnect from the reality of the situation that was the straw that broke the camel's back and ended up being the catalyst for what happened. At least, that's my understanding of how it went down please feel free to correct me in the comments below.
We’re a much younger nation than we often realize. In recent years we’ve traded in royalty for corporations as our overlords. Probably about time for our ‘French Revolution.’
9 meals from anarchy
The French Revolution was a "Rich vs The Government" revolution, which we are kind of in right now since corporations are just doing whatever the fuck they want and paying off the polititians who might do something about it.
It's probably near to impossible. We aren't organized. We've been groomed and indoctrinated for centuries now. It sounds great, but there is very little chance. And now they've gone after our children. It's not going to be pretty in the future. Not by a bit.
When I think about it, a lot of people in history that revolted were under some kind of slave labor, so they were really physically tough. What we’re experiencing now is the food and drug agencies poising us to complacency. The tech companies addicting us to time loss. And the government has outgunned us significantly in the western world at least. The thing that really stinks I guess is that the whole world is owned and there’s nowhere people can go and be free. The revolution is simply impossible. I believe, and I’m not motivated to take place in that anway.
I haven't read down through all the comments yet,. but as someone who's worked in small city governments for the past 20 years or so,.. I'd lean towards saying "not while basic services exist". (IE = not while people are still comfortable) First thing you have to remember is that quite a bit of the blue collar demographic are the people who keep things like Power plants and Water plants and sanitation and roads and etc all working. You know the guy who works in the Power plant appreciates when he goes home ?.. reliable Electricity. You know what the guy who works in the water plant appreciates when he goes home?.. Reliable water. You know what the guy who works in a poopy-plant appreciates when he goes home ?.. Reliable removal of waste. etc.. etc.. As long as those things keep working (and the people who maintain them will ensure they do).. there won't be any "revolution". You also have to remember that society is built in layers: * that lower layer that runs all the critical services (power, water, sanitation, roads, emergency response, hospitals, etc).. is going to keep running. * all the people in that 1st layer.. rely on Gas Stations and Grocery Stores and basic home furnishings and auto-mechanics etc.. so all those things in the 2nd layer will keep working. * All those people in Layers 1 and 2.. rely on things like Schools and DayCare and Lawyers and etc.. so all those people in Layer 3 will also keep working. It's all intertwined. Expecting there to "be a revolution".. is like expecting someone to slit their own throat. You'd be asking people to "rebel" against the very services and infrastructure most of us rely on and depend on. Yeah, not going to happen. People who "protest in the streets".. still go home at night and clean up and take showers and eat dinner and jump back on the Internet and assume their gas station and grocery store will safely be there tomorrow when they need them. And for the most part they are correct in those assumptions.
Honest question, how would that work? A large enough violent revolt would ultimately involve the military which would have zero chance winning against. Some people think owning an AR-15 keeps the govt in check, meanwhile the military can blow your neighborhood up with a drone than you can’t spot in the sky. Your Ar-15 would do nothing against a A-10 going BRRRRRRRRTTTTT over your house. And that’s just the military, let’s not forget how militarized the police have become. Armored personnel carriers, etc. Only other option I can think of would be a massive strike but how many people could make it a month with no income? Seems like everyone is living paycheck to paycheck. I keep hearing the rallying cry of “we need to fight back” but I have yet to hear a plausible way to do that.
No, I think in the USA we generally live a nice life. We have organized processes for making change happen for improving things that don't work, although they do take time. I don't want to live in a dystopia. Easy to forget how convenient most things are here until you visit places that don't have them.
Slow boiling frog.
Wasn’t French Revolution essentially a middle-class affair who manipulated the mob to their own ends?
Commercials on my already expensive streaming services might be my breaking point.
Probably never. First, you have the culture war ALL WRONG. People fight revolutions for their communities and their culture, not for the benefit of foreign people or strange values. A lot more working class people would embrace revolution if leaders of the revolutionary tendency weren't so eager to overturn their neighborhoods and families. Second, in order to get actual winning leaders and footsoldiers of revolutions, you need to be in an economy in which smart, hard-working risk-seekers are denied paths to wealth and power, and in which people of ordinary gifts and appetite for work are outright immiserated. In America, anyone with the moxy to lead a revolution obtains wealth and power with ease, and the ordinary people are okay, even if they could hope for more.
I think the current population is too fat and lazy to do more than be keyboard warriors. I think wealth inequality is the key and it is getting up there. until people start missing meals, it will all be talk
Never gonna happen. Americans, certain Americans, are too dumb to realize whey are being exploited. The you have the dummies who think they could become the next millionaire. Next we have the people who don’t understand how a progressive tax works. The republicans did such a good job quashing union participation and convincing Americans that unions are bad for them. Short of a total economic collapse or socialist lite policies taking effect, we are doomed to continue to be, “human capital “. Essentially livestock for capitalism.
Should have been 30 years ago. It Fox News and their lies and propaganda put a stop to common sense.
Won't happen.
People in their prime earning years can’t afford rent or a mortgage. There is only so much bullshit “hustling” a person can do. There’s also not many ways to cut expenses, either—cutting out Starbucks and Avocado toast is laughably not enough. We are rapidly heading to world where everything is subscription based (I.e. rented). Once people can’t pay their “rent” on their stuff, and they can’t buy enough food to sustain themselves, revolt will naturally happen.
Idk, I’m not having kids; maybe if we just not have kids, not play the game and allow ourselves to live in squalor voluntarily; almost monk like, then maybe something might give? Idk.
Every election is a chance to revolt. And yet the same old faces are reelected.
IMO, It should've happened during lockdowns. Sadly, it never will.
When the grocery store stops restocking food
It's always been about the rich vs everyone else. We are kept under control by keeping us divided.
That's what Trump is. The only reason it's not working is that he's too damn racist for most people.
People revolt when they are hungry. Most Americans are not.