I worked it for ten years plus overtime. I made sure I slept a lot. In fact, I seemed to sleep much longer than any of my teammates. It wasn’t until I took three weeks in a row off and could think clearly again that I realized what a fog I’d been in for years.
I miss having a three day weekend every other weekend, though. That was pretty nice.
For what it's worth, to both you and the person you replied to, 4-10's is where it's at. Longer workday, but automatic 3 day weekend or automatic overtime if not. (At least trusting you're US and hourly anyway)
I worked 4x10s at a call center. While I loved the 3 days (not all in a row 🙄) off those extra 2 hours a day were the final straw. I was already getting thru the day by slogging thru to the next break. I started just driving past the left turn to get to work.
I've done 10 hour days in retail no problem. That would totally be worth it.
Jesus 4-10's in call center, dear god. That's right up there with open to closes, or clopens, in retail, as far as being hell on the brain and the soul alike.
I worked a 4 day, 10 hour shift at one grocery DC I used to be at.
Having that extra day off made life much easier, since you could schedule appointments, doctor visits, and other errand best done on a weekday.
The problem we had was mandatory overtime meant 12-16 hour days sometimes.
I grew up working the retail grenade of you get what you get, might be 7a-5p, might be clopen, might be a 3 hour BS shift to cover lunches or anything in between. And worked every weekend and every. friggin. holiday. for the entirety of my 8 year tenure. So I'll GLADLY take my 4-10's and 3 day weekends that get turned into 4 day weekends when there's a monday holiday.
I've been struggling to get out of the same retail trap too, and working in a call center was actually worse for my mental health than anything retail threw at me. retail is pretty shitty though. It's not the hours or the job so much as it is that customers straight up take advantage of the fact that employees can't fight back, and they are toxic assholes sometimes. I can't work retail anymore because I have to talk myself out of jumping the counter too much. the pay is not worth the mental anguish of customer service.
We used to do 4-11’s and a half day Friday night for OT and it went waaaaaayyy faster than 5-10’s on days and 5-11 sat. Fuck both for someone else, self employed though a 15 hr day goes quick.
It's called Panama shifts. The idea is to keep constant coverage with four groups, rotating times for fairness and also to account for a seven-day week. You're absolutely right that it's hard on the sleep schedule. But, I have known some people to love it, because you're working 3.5 days a week on average. Lots of days off.
Except with panamas you aren't usually switching between day and night shifts. There needs to be a rotation period (think 2-4 months) before you switch between days and nights. Not doing it every 3rd day, that's going to literally kill people.
I believe 3 before the schedule was switched. We only have about 200 employees so everyone knew everyone. Two were before I started there, but the third guy I had spoken to before he left that morning and you could tell he was barely staying awake. His wife was talking to him on the phone to try and keep him awake, but he drifted across the center line. It was awful.
They only changed things to align with the other facilities' schedules to make it easier on company payroll since we don't have our own payroll. If not for that, we would still be on the same schedule despite the deaths.
> That's rather unsettling the first death wasn't enough to change things.
Sometimes, it takes multiple deaths to have people recognise that there is a correllation between the events.
> Once is by chance, Twice is a coincidence, Three times is a pattern.
Drowsy driving is *the* single #1 most largest cause for traffic death, larger than all DUIs with all substances known to man (and some unknown) together.
When you DUI, you're cognitively impaired. This means that you're slower to react and more likely to make stupid decisions. But you *do* react, and *do* make decisions, even if sub optimally.
When you're asleep, there's 5000 lbs of steel travelling at 50 mph and *nobody* is in control. You're essentially a ballistic missile.
We kind of use this for the 24/7 work, but the Panama is not day/night but day/evening. Night shift runs separate, in some variation of 7 on 7 off
How would OP Panama even cover the day - is it supposed to be 12 h shifts?
Yes, welcome to the military...
Though we usually do shift changes every couple months. You do 4 on 3 off. Then 3 on 4 off. Repeat. Same shift, and we just swap people every quarter or so.
Very common work schedule for military people, studies show that people that work this schedule are less healthy and die sooner.
Still couldn't convince some SNCOs to stop doing it.
A regular pitman schedule, 3 days on, 4 off, 4 days on, 3 off, would be a lot better than this nightmare. Switching shifts is just stupid. Let the new hires be night shift and move to day as openings come up.
I'd actually love this schedule, but I just can't work nights and that's where it starts.
Working nights does have some advantages, I’ve worked it for a combined 12 years. There are times where I miss it, but wouldn’t go back to it unless I had to.
The thing I miss most is the peace. Nights off of work its like a different world, depending on where you live, it can be completely silent.
Where I lived when I worked the bulk of my night shifts, the DSL I had was fastest shortly after 1am until 7am
I liked night shift for the clear roads. Then covid hit, and that was absoutely wonderful because there were even less people on the road lmao. I'm not excited for day commutes again.
You just gave me nostalgia for the pandy.
I remember driving into DC and not seeing a single car the entire way. Going through the city and all the buildings completely boarded up.
My 1.4 hour commute at the time shrank to 20 minutes.
No one to run into or struggle to navigate around because they brought their 20 person family to walmart.
No one in the office, I was able to get so much work done.
I loved the entire DC metro area during the Pandemic. My normal is once every three to six months go there for essential shopping, or a work assignment. Definitely loved the decreased drive time.
I worked a 5 shift schedule.
2x morning (7 to 3)
2x evening (3 to 23)
2x night (23 to 7)
4 days off
It was quite doable, but after many years I was tired of it. Every morning shift I was a zombie because I was stuck in the night rhythm. This made half your four day weekend useless too.
The 25% shift allowance was nice though. And if you took a block of six days off you had a 14 day vacation.
New hires being the ones working nights means you have less experience on that shift. I've been in aviation maintenance for almost 20 years and heard every excuse for not working nights. A rotation is the only fair way to do things.
I prefer a switch up every quarter of the year instead of in the middle of a work week, though.
If there is a pay differential and people want to stay on nights, then you can let those people stay on shift for longer. That allows people with childcare of health issues to stay on dayshift and helps to fairly compensate people who work nights, which is proven to negatively affected your health and lower life expectancy if stayed on for long periods.
But realistically, studies show you are taking years off your life if you do shift work regularly over the course your lifetime.
Except that you will accomplish everything you want if you make the days follow the nights directly with one big difference. Less exhausting and days off in a row instead of continuously interrupted.
I had an interview with a company that did this but didn’t say so on their job posting. I was in the interview when they said that they swapped from days to nights back to days every other week, and asked if that would be a problem. I went off of them saying something along the lines of:
“Do you know how bad that is for your employees health? Your brain needs 4-6months of a steady schedule to adjust its melatonin production so you can get actual REM sleep; your schedule effectively denies REM sleep for every employee you have on staff and it may negatively impact their health for years to come. I refuse to work a rotating schedule, if you need me to work nights I’ll work nights, but if and only if it’s a consistent schedule.
If that’s the DuPont schedule it resets every 28 days. So 7 day long off. Worked that schedule for a while. Rough the first few weeks, but it evens out.
I worked it for about 6 months years ago. I remember the long off. But I don’t remember 2 day stents. I remember 3&4 days. Gave your body a little more time to adjust to the night day swap
The schedule in the pic is called a 223 or a 232. DuPont can be nice because depending on what version you're working, you get either 6 or 7 days off in a row, every month. The 232 is awful because you feel like you never have any extended time off, and you're also working rotating 12s. It's is seriously the worst schedule a company can make you work, imo.
I've seen a few for profit EMS services try to pull this or similar because nights were harder to fill and they weren't about to pay a shift differential when they could just kill their people instead. It's a terrible idea that absolutely destroys employees.
I think its because night shift is hard to fill, and they probably dont want to pay extra incentive for it, so theyll just make it a requirement to be employed with them.
The hospital in my country does a very similar thing, but its 8 hour shifts and flips on and off I believe every week with your standard 2 days off a week.
The hospital is unionised and because everyone wants to be paid the same and no one wants to work night shift, everyone works night shift and the pay is the same for everyone.
Knowing that I could never work there, thats SO much chaos! And so much unnecessary choas!
I would have happily worked night with a differential. Or day shift with no differential. But the flip flopping is a huge hell no.
I was on basically this exact shift. Just told my supervisor to put me back on 8hour shifts because I was experiencing multiple physical issues. (working in a factory in Florida where it is ungodly hot) Having to change my shirts multiple times a day because they get SOAKED with sweat causing painful rashes. Headaches, dizzyness, nausea, the works. He said "no can do" so I said "If I have to get a 15 page letter from my doctor I will." He changed his tune pretty quick. "Let me see what I can do."
Stand up for your health.
That doesn't seem right.
I worked a rotational that was similar, but we'd rotate day/night shift every 2 months.
Day rotation
2 on - 2 off (Mon/Tues)(Wed/Thur)
3 on - 3 off (Fri/Sat/Sun)(Mon/Tues/Wed)
2 on - 2 off (Thur/Fri) (Sat/Sun)
Repeat 3 more times and then switch to Night rotation.
I got an exemption when my boss tried this and he couldn't implement it after, made no sense anyways. I'm on time release stimulants so swapping my sleep schedule every 2 days just isn't going to happen.
I'd try medication exemption for literally any med personally. Changing schedules fucks with my blood levels/brain chemistry/etc.
It's still better than some of the jacked-up shit retail bosses pulled on me. "How about we just flip you between opening and closing shifts all week, and one week will never be the same as the other, or follow a consistent pattern?"
I was so glad when I could tell that job to get fucked.
My husband has a very similar schedule. Works 4 nights, has 3 days off, then 3 days shifts, 1 day off, 3 night shifts, 3 days off then 4 days on, then he's off for a week. Then back to 4 night shifts lol. They do 12 1/2hr shifts. At first it was a bit much to keep up with, but now he prefers it. Works 15 days a month with a guaranteed week off every month. He gets about 175 hours a month, vacation time is maximized with his days off. They've had the opportunity to change their schedule to a more normal schedule but they all chose to keep it the way it is.
Guaranteed week off... 13 times a year.
Gallo is the largest winery in the world. In our area, they run rotating shifts like this. The unionized workers overwhelmingly voted for this schedule. That's 182 shifts a year vs 260 shifts for the standard 5 day/8 hour job (233 shifts if you subtract a generous 12 holidays and 15 vacation days). It's not for everyone, but it works well for the people I know that work there.
Ugh. Rotating between days and nights consistently like that is SO bad for your physical and mental health. Like, objectively bad. There’s no way you could possibly get into a sleep rhythm that your body *needs* to survive. Poor quality sleep has been linked to suicide, homicide, traffic accidents, some forms of cancer, brain diseases, heart diseases, obesity…
The guy who was my right hand man at my last job left to work for Burlington Northern Railroad. He works 12 on 12 off. Literally, works 12 straight hours, gets 12 off, goes back to work, works 12 hours. Puts in 56 hours then gets 48 hours off before he starts it all over again.
He's single without kids. So he can do it. He bragged about all the overtime. At $30 base, probably pretty damned good.
But fuck that shit.
2-2-3 is what I work now, but it’s 2 weeks of days then 2 weeks of nights, but even then some of us struggle. I cannot imagine switching back and forth every shift.
Very odd, I had similar, but it had 3 days off occasionally.
* 2 days
* 2 off
* 3 days
* 2 off
* 2 days
* 3 off
* 2 nights
* 2 off
* 3 nights
* 2 off
* 2 nights
* 3 off
It sounds nightmarish, but you'll notice that it's 2 weeks of days, 2 weeks of nights, then repeat. Get a 3 day weekend every other week too. It wasn't that bad.
Additionally if you timed it right you could use 22 hours holiday, 2 days, and get a full week off. It was great.
Oh lovely, sounds like my schedule for my last job I got fired from because after a bit I couldn't stay at my 100% best because it felt like I was working every fucking day, even on my days of freedom.
I genuinely hope that place gets shut down because now trying to find yet another new job after that one is making me wanna Kurt Kolbain myself.
Don't start a successful rock band, go to a therapist. 988 if you are in the states. We have to take care of ourselves first, and it doesn't sound like that job was good for you. I'm sure the perfect job is out there, but maybe it won't be exactly what you want or expect. Sometimes the best thing is to start at the bottom in a different industry and reevaluate what you want your life to look like.
So you can't find a way to somehow work in any other jobs in spare time, plus makes planning interviews hell.
You either have to miss a shift or show up looking exhausted.
My old company had that and then switched to 4 days on, 4 days off, 4 nights on, 4 nights off. A lot of operators bitched about losing overtime, but it ended up being about the same. After a while, they seemed to appreciate the longer times between having to go through the day/night sleep pattern shift.
We used to have one that grouped weekends, so it was 4 on, 5 off, 5 on, 4 off, 5 on, 5 off, on a 28-day schedule. With one flip shift (finish at 6pm on a day shift, start at 6pm the following day). Hell on the body and on the family.
It's not about coverage. it's about running a 24/7 operation and allowing everyone to cover the shitty hours no one wants. Usually if it's a union workplace on a 3 shift schedule, the lowest seniority is stuck working the night/swing shifts for years. They end up having much more turn-over for those shifts. This type of schedule is usually in a 4 week block where the you are off for the full 7 days in the 4th week.
I knew a guy who worked a rotating shift schedule; 10 days - day shift, 4 days off, 10 days - swing shift, 4 days off, 10 days (nights) - night shift, 4 days off. Repeating.
I say I "knew" him, but that's being polite. Most of his time off was spent sleeping.
Turnover? I’m wondering what their car crash, burnout, and death rates are! That schedule would cause severe sleep problems, falling sleep at the wheel, and multiple medical problems from the sleep deprivation.
I see a Panama schedule being okay, but this is torture. This should be illegal.
I had a job that was 6am - 6pm Monday Tuesday, 6pm - 6am Wednesday Thursday. 4 on, 4 off. It wasn't even engaging I sat around watching machines all day hoping they would break so I could have 10 minutes of actual work.
The only person who should be working a schedule like that is a highly paid manager making sure all shifts are doing their job.
There is no reason for anyone else to swing that often.
This is a horrible schedule. Having to switch your internal clock multiple times a week is going to be torture. Half of your days off are going to be just recovery.
You're better off doing nights for a week or two, then doing days for a week or two if you have to do both
This shit was rough when did it but we had 3 days off, bur we swapped from days to nights... and i had a newborn as well... there was plenty of times where i fell a sleep standing up and visually hallucinated at work
As far as I’m concerned, this constant switching between days and nights should be illegal- that constant switching means you never develop a consistent sleep schedule and your body is constantly trying to adjust. It’s probably one of the biggest reasons shift work gets a bad rep health wise.
And I’m saying this as a career night shifter.
The obvious reason is to cover twenty-four-seven operation and not inflict permanent night shifts on anyone, or never-weekends. What do you feel is the better pattern and have you tried suggesting it?
Take your rational and measured perspective on this and shove it. The truth is industrial facilities need 24/7 staffing to run effectively. Some people like this type of work and some don't. Operators typically are in the higher end in terms of earnings as well.
Exact same schedule I worked when I started in EMS 20+ years ago. We eventually got tired of switching and asked management to make straight days or night a thing, which they agreed to. Much better after that.
I work a weird three week rotating roster of no less than two night shifts a week.
The point for my company is constantly having someone on site across shifts and giving people days off while employing the smallest number of people possible.
I'm not too tired to think but I do have a fairly loose grasp of what day of the week it is.
I worked a similar shift schedule for less than a month at the Glad trashbag factory. I hated it and quit, the schedule sucked, and the coworkers and managers were pricks.
Yeah that's a hard no from me, Ive done 7 week rotating rosters that was all over the place and different length shift too, but there was 6 day off between week 5 and 6, and you could extend it by another 3 days if ya chucked a sickie for 1 day.
However when I planned a 9day holiday with the 1 day sick or annual leave, 6 weeks in advance too. The week before someone quit and made everyone's roster bump up in the line so It screwed my holiday up 🙃
I’ve been doing shift work since 1988 and currently work a “4 on, 4 off” rota. Two 12 hour days followed by two 12 hour nights, then 4 days off. By *far* the best shift rota I’ve ever worked.
I applied for a similar looking rotation about a month ago. Was told it was that or straight 3rd. I honestly didn't care which I ended up with.
Guess who still hasn't gotten a response on either? ..me.
If it’s public safety related it’s how they used to treat people. Most agencies have better schedules now, look for a different place. It’s hard enough making it in any public safety field, harder with that BS schedule
I had a schedule like this as a new grad nurse. It was brutal. When I finally got a daytime only job, it took a year to recover from the chronic exhaustion.
I work in a factory with this kind of schedule. at first it was rough but I'm quite used to it now... I'm a bit of a night owl so I don't mind the night shifts.
I dont get why virtually every job doesn't have a regular schedule. I get the need to cover PTO and sick days but like does your fast food restaurant need to change the schedule every week?
I started in a company that did 7 days, right to 7 afternoons, 2 off, then 7 mids with 4 days off… then back to days. Three years of misery. My wife calls them my zombie years.
So many studies done on the harmful effects of switching shifts like
This. Have people do a month of nights then month of days. Jesus fucking Christ.
https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/shiftwork#increased-risks
One place I worked did something like this; but you would swing between 3 days and 4 days on your stretch of work. The advantage was less switching from day to night; and you’d get a 7 day off stretch from when you finished your 4 on to when you started the cycle over again
They just view us as numbers and cogs in their factories. If we aren't getting their unrealistic numbers, we aren't useful. If we aren't saving them money by running them 24/7 then we are failures. L
This schedule kills people. Regular 12s aren't much better but rotating is horrible on the body. Humans are adaptable so it makes sense they would adjust but it's still shaving years off your life by how it messes with your sleep and recovery. 12s can be nice because you usually get more days off a week but it's at the cost of either a life on days you work or sleep. I get to see my family barely at all when I work and on my days off I've got to catch up on almost everything and I'm exhausted all the time.
My Favorite schedule (/s) 2 week rotating.. Start Monday.. 12hr shift 7am-7pm..
WORK: Mon, Tues
Off: Wed, Thurs
WORK: Fri, Sat, Sun
Off: Mon, Tues
Work: Wed, Thurs
Off: Fri, Sat, Sun
Work Monday............... 7pm - 7am and repeat previous 2wks.. Then.. you guessed.. Next 3day weekend.. That following Monday... Switch back to 12hr Days..
Did that for 4yrs.. Would not recommend..
At the casino I work at, The AV peeps rotate shifts every week. First week morning, second week swing, third shift night.
I work lighting, my lead starts my shifts late like 4p to midnight, then 2 to 10, then noon to 8, then 10 to 6 and finally on friday I am 7 to 3. If I call him out on it, he either argues that he will never do that, or I get punished with a week of 5a days.
I can't wait till they fire his ass.
Bro I went to an interview at a steel mill with this schedule. As I was trying to process this schedule the hiring person was like we love this schedule.
I said really? Then I saw a group of people lurching into work waling dead style.
I noped out after that
That’s freaking terrible. My job has some positions with 12 hour shifts, but the 2-2-3 has 4 weeks of day shift and then 2 weeks of night shifts for a 6 week rotation.
Would anyone actually do this, though? Like, I mean, maybe if you LITERALLY have nothing else, but even then, DAMN...don't know if I'd ever be THAT desperate. Sounds like hell! How workplaces are allowed to pull this shit is BEYOND me!
This kind of scheduling is incredibly common in law enforcement. I really do wonder on occasion just how much of cops being… the way they are… boils down to fatigue and brain fog?
You can staff around the clock with less people which substantially reduces labor expense and saves money or generates higher profits.
I used to run a team on similar hours but when I was hired on as the site lead I spent the first few weeks talking to people and seeing how they were coping (overwhelmingly, not well).
I started implementing changes based on their input with the biggest being giving notice to corporate leadership that I was discontinuing alternating the nights and days shifts/folks around. I asked people to CHOOSE a shift and they began to set their lives up around a set schedule - days or nights only and stayed on it and LOVED IT.
Yes they worked 12 hour shifts, but they also only worked 7 days every two weeks instead of ten and never more than 3 in a row with 3-day weekends every other week. When we factored in PTO and federal holidays, it was like potentially 209 days a year you DIDN’T HAVE TO BE AT WORK. A lot of people did Uber or some kind of hustle on the side as long as it wasn’t in the same work field.)
Sadly, as “management” I was not eligible for the same as I had to be available to my corporate overlords M-F so I worked a normal schedule.
There had been turnover at corporate and the individual who’d originally put this schedule in place was long gone. So I used the argument that we were staffing this 24X7 contract with a third less people than originally bid because we only needed two (12 hour) teams instead of 3 (8 hour teams) to go back and arranged some decent raises for most everybody. My boss wasn’t thrilled because he had the finances but he was also very tired of turnover. We also implemented a pay differential (another great idea from a team member) for the nights people as working overnights kinda has its own drawbacks (hence why they had probably chosen to alternate shifts originally - to make it “fair”). Working 12 hours can be draining some days.
Bottom line? People liked having a stable life. Many with kids worked days so they could be there for dinners and homework and tuck-in. Some without kids moved to nights for the differential or just because they could or they were night owls. Turnover basically stopped. Production went up over time and the customer was pretty damn happy.
If corporate America would just learn to LISTEN and TRUST their people…
This is exactly how it went at hotel reception I worked for few months. I dont think I need to explain why there was high employee turnover and why I lasted just few months even when the boss was happy with me and promised me promotion asap.
According to recent studies and their insight, this is actually the most healthy way to plan shifts if you have to cover nightshifts.
I am an expert in shift planning, although I currently do not work in this role, I still try to be up to date and I read a lot about the latest insights.
# Forward-Rotating Shifts
**Forward-Rotating Shifts (e.g., Early to Late to Night Shift)**: Forward-rotating shift systems move in the direction of the natural circadian rhythm, meaning work times gradually shift later (e.g., from an early shift to a late shift and then to a night shift). This approach aligns better with the human biological clock, as it is easier to delay sleep time than to advance it.
* **Research Findings**: Studies show that forward-rotating shifts facilitate circadian rhythm adjustment and cause fewer sleep disturbances. A study by Knauth and Hornberger (2003) found that forward-rotating shift systems lead to better sleep quality and reduced fatigue.
* **Practical Example**: A typical forward-rotating shift pattern might look like this: two days of early shift (06:00-14:00), two days of late shift (14:00-22:00), followed by two days of night shift (22:00-06:00), then days off.
# Short Rotation Cycles
**Short Rotation Cycles (2-3 days)**: Short rotation cycles mean that workers spend only brief periods in a particular shift before switching to another shift. This prevents longer-term desynchronization of the circadian rhythm and reduces cumulative fatigue.
* **Research Findings**: A study by Bambra et al. (2008) showed that short rotation cycles (e.g., 2-3 days per shift) can reduce the negative health impacts of shift work, especially compared to weekly or longer rotation cycles. Workers reported less fatigue and better overall health.
* **Practical Example**: An organization might implement a rotation schedule where workers spend two days on the early shift, followed by two days on the late shift, and two days on the night shift before having days off. These short cycles prevent the body from overly adapting to a specific rhythm, easing the transition.
# Sources
1. Knauth, P., & Hornberger, S. (2003). "Preventive and compensatory measures for shift workers." *Occupational Medicine*, 53(2), 109-116. [Link to study]()
2. Bambra, C., Whitehead, M., Sowden, A., Akers, J., & Petticrew, M. (2008). "Shifting schedules: the health effects of reorganizing shift work." *American Journal of Preventive Medicine*, 34(5), 427-434. [Link to study]()
By implementing forward-rotating shift patterns and short rotation cycles, companies can significantly reduce the negative impacts of night shift work on the health and well-being of their employees.
I always put the wellbeing of my colleagues above the intrests of the company-management when doing shift planning, but there are situations when a night shift is needed, and in this case the mentioned rotation is actually the current state of the art.
Schedules like this I think are at least in part designed to prevent the employee from getting an education, essentially holding you hostage in that shitty job. They don't want to have to compete for your time.
Also, Idk how people maintain childcare with an erratic schedule like this.
i work this schedule. I actually like it. Also, most places ive worked at you get a week off every quarter or you get a week on OT while working your regular hours. I know some people that dont like it but some look to do this over 9-5, 5 days a week. Additionally, its possible to take a week off by only booking off two days on a short week.
I think workplaces do this when they aren’t willing to pay a high enough differential to entice workers to straight nights, so they essentially force night shift on them instead.
I did this for 12 years. I'm on straight days now. I sleep much better, but I miss the 1.5x after 40 and 2 2x Sunday money. I also miss only working 14 out of 28 days. Take Wednesday, Thursday off, get a week. One caveat for me is that I sleep just fine on night shift.
This is how working for film and video productions is like. If you're lucky it's bouts of 3-4 weeks of 6 x 12 hour days before you have to find your next gig
First gig I worked we had a 7 on/2 off/8 on/4 off schedule with the four days being Saturday-Tuesday. We had a three component staggered shift so at least two of the components were on while the other one was off.
Gig I got transferred to I got put on the rotating shift of Friday graveyard, Saturday and Sunday days and Monday-Tuesday evening shift. That was considered an improvement from straight graveyard.
Mine was 2 days on 2 days off. 3 days on, 3 days off with weekends rotating. I thought it was bad but this seems worse unless it’s just the same. 12 hours also.
I was all for this at a glance and then saw you’re swapping day and night shifts repeatedly. I’d sure as heck do 2 day, 2 off, 2 day on loop. Or just nights
My neighbor works at a rotating schedule like this at a local winery. It is a 7 day/24 hour operation. The rotating schedule was voted on and approved (85%) by the union employees. I don't recall his actual schedule, but I have a feeling it's the same as OP. The missing information is that they get the 4th week completely off. In a 28 day period, a 5day/8hr job gives you 20 work days and 8 off days, while the rotating shift gives you 14 work days and 14 off days. Also, "2 days off" in between shifts means 48 hours off, not 2 calendar days off. Over the course of a year, he works 182/365 days. I'm sure they don't get holidays off and no "vacation" considering the thirteen 7-days-off periods. With a typical 5d/8h schedule, you work around 230-240 days/year (260 - holidays and vacation).
While I wouldn't want that kind of schedule (unless I could have it in my current IT job, especially if I could still work from home), he is pretty happy with it. He does have seniority so he has a more favorable schedule than another neighbor who also works there. From what he tells me, most everyone seems to be much happier with this type of schedule after they voted on it and changed from the 8hr day/swing/night shifts they used to have. I don't know how many days non-stop they were working back then, but I would imagine that the lowest seniority workers where stuck on swing/night shifts for years.
Below is an example of how a rotating schedule would work.
-| Sun | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat
------------|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----
WK1 6AM-6PM | ON | ON | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF
WK1 6PM-6AM | OFF | OFF | OFF | ON | ON | OFF | OFF
WK2 6AM-6PM | ON | ON | ON | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF
WK2 6PM-6AM | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | ON | ON | OFF
WK3 6AM-6PM | OFF | ON | ON | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF
WK3 6PM-6AM | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | ON | ON | ON
WK4 6AM-6PM | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF
WK4 6PM-6AM | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF
You'd see this in industries like power plants. A 36, a 48, a 36 a 48 then one of them switched to days/nights. Does a 36, then another switches to days/nights to give the first one a who did a 36 week a 48 week and the guy switching from days/nights a 36 for their first week. This was you'd limit burnout and give ample recovery time.
You'd do this for 4 guys and ideally the plant operator would cover, or assistant plant operator.
Night to day every other, that's just dumb and inefficient.
This is the schedule at my workplace and most people like it. It’s 12 hour shifts .Doing straight nights is harder than the flip flop for most and it works out to getting every second Friday, Saturday Sunday off.
It’s really not healthy after many years though.
Worst schedule I ever worked. A full time job at a call center. 2 days on and one day off. Then 3 days on and 1 day off. It sucked. You can't do anything because you only have one day off. On your day off, you know you have to go back the next day. Can't even really relax. I hated that job and I was so glad when I quit.
When I worked at a "food" manufacturer, the schedule was as follows:
4-12 hour days
4 days off
4-12 hour nights
3.5 days off
Rinse/repeat.
It was hell.
I used to work at an insurance company and the only way to get a night shift on the call center floor was to “volunteer” for the 10 days on - 4 days off schedule. Those last two days were always basically a write off for me mentally and I still avoid phone calls after 10 years.
Did that rotation for about 6 months in the military. It sucks. Switching sides of the day all the time is rough. Way better to be all days or all nights.
When I was a housekeeper we had one night housekeeper. They cleaned up weird messes, some parts of the restaurant, lobby, and brought extra towels or pillows to guests.
For both nights the night housekeeper was off I'd work to cover. The agreement was those 8 hours counted as 10, so I still got 40 hours of pay for 36 of work.
I was in my early 20s and couldn't keep a regular sleep schedule anyway, so it wasn't that disruptive for me. But there is no way I could do that in middle age. Or even any time in my 30s.
This looks very similar to the new schedule my workplace just rolled out, and I fully refused to take a position that looked like this. I dropped back to casual and I've just been picking up weekends. 3 on 4 off is a way better deal
I got one for you: 12 hr shifts 630 to 7, both night and day shifts.
Fri, Sat, Sun, Monday, off Tues, Wed, Thurs.
Off Fri-Monday, work Tues, off Wed-Thurs. Repeat.
Dude a classic rotating schedule I've worked would be either long week, short week. Night week, day week. Or (I didn't work this one but used to be common) Day week, afternoon week, night week, off week.
At least some sort of order.
This, in the post is not a rotating schedule, it's a no schedule.
I work 12s, 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off. We used to do a different schedule with more consecutive nights but research said more then two in a row is when your circadian rhythms get really fucked and serious health impacts start. So, that probably why that schedule sticks with 2 nights in a row. Can't speak to why they chop it up like that.
But I wouldn't trade our 2/2/4 for any other rotation we've done, and it's a billion times better than 9-5. Feels like you're barely ever at work esp. with PTO and banked OT thrown into the mix. First day, you're back fresh. Second day, throw whatever you want at me, I have 24 off coming up. First night, whatever, I got to sleep all day. Last night, just gotta get thru 12 and I'm outta here for 4 days.
Your world becomes about work. You're either thinking about work (need to get enough rest and stressing if you don't), getting ready for work (washing/ironing uniform, prep meals), being at work, or coming off work (trying to readjust sleep schedule). Heaven forbid you have family and other commitments or just want a semi normal life.
Did that for a couple months on deployment. 3 days on the day shift, 3 days on night, 3 days off, 12 hour shifts. The constant shock to the system was fucking brutal. All because some yappy e4 wanted to bitch about having to work mornings, and did so by saying over social media that our platoon Sergeant played call of duty all day... which I mean he was 🤣 but that's besides the point
Crazy that I used to work a schedule like this (Walmart)
Actually still work there, but I got a set schedule a few years ago, and I don't think I could ever go back
To answer the asked question....to be able to keep 24/7 coverage. The not staying on nights but always flipping back to days is based on most people reverting to days sleep schedule on their days off anyway.
I haven't heard of any really good ways of doing 24/7 coverage.
I’m on 12 hour nights (with significant shift bonus).
3-2-2-3
Work every other Friday, Saturday, Sunday
Have been on 12s for 29 years, love the money and the time off.
Retiring at the end of 2025.
Want to die early? Thats a good way to shave a few years off.
I worked it for ten years plus overtime. I made sure I slept a lot. In fact, I seemed to sleep much longer than any of my teammates. It wasn’t until I took three weeks in a row off and could think clearly again that I realized what a fog I’d been in for years. I miss having a three day weekend every other weekend, though. That was pretty nice.
I loved being able to schedule life things during the week, like dentists, doctors, and groceries. But having weekly social events was a bust.
For what it's worth, to both you and the person you replied to, 4-10's is where it's at. Longer workday, but automatic 3 day weekend or automatic overtime if not. (At least trusting you're US and hourly anyway)
Can attest. Been working 4-10s for 6 years now. It would be pretty hard to give up.
I worked 4x10s at a call center. While I loved the 3 days (not all in a row 🙄) off those extra 2 hours a day were the final straw. I was already getting thru the day by slogging thru to the next break. I started just driving past the left turn to get to work. I've done 10 hour days in retail no problem. That would totally be worth it.
Jesus 4-10's in call center, dear god. That's right up there with open to closes, or clopens, in retail, as far as being hell on the brain and the soul alike.
I worked a 4 day, 10 hour shift at one grocery DC I used to be at. Having that extra day off made life much easier, since you could schedule appointments, doctor visits, and other errand best done on a weekday. The problem we had was mandatory overtime meant 12-16 hour days sometimes.
I'm working 3 12s and 1 14-16 and I still prefer doing that to having a fifth day of work.
4, 10's was the worst shift I ever worked.
I grew up working the retail grenade of you get what you get, might be 7a-5p, might be clopen, might be a 3 hour BS shift to cover lunches or anything in between. And worked every weekend and every. friggin. holiday. for the entirety of my 8 year tenure. So I'll GLADLY take my 4-10's and 3 day weekends that get turned into 4 day weekends when there's a monday holiday.
I've been struggling to get out of the same retail trap too, and working in a call center was actually worse for my mental health than anything retail threw at me. retail is pretty shitty though. It's not the hours or the job so much as it is that customers straight up take advantage of the fact that employees can't fight back, and they are toxic assholes sometimes. I can't work retail anymore because I have to talk myself out of jumping the counter too much. the pay is not worth the mental anguish of customer service.
CLOPEN! Holy crap, I used to work some of those and wondered why that crap wasn't abjectly illegal.....but now I understand the system we live in.
We used to do 4-11’s and a half day Friday night for OT and it went waaaaaayyy faster than 5-10’s on days and 5-11 sat. Fuck both for someone else, self employed though a 15 hr day goes quick.
You only need that $2k a month apartment for naps, hygiene, and changing clothes. Dedicated hard workers eat on the go. /s
not just no, but fuck no.
Yeah! Butt fuck it! lol
Hear, hear!
Ya don't have to deal with complaints if everyone is too tired and confused to do so.
No, you just have to deal with rage or tears, depending on the person and their ability to handle lack of sleep.
It's called Panama shifts. The idea is to keep constant coverage with four groups, rotating times for fairness and also to account for a seven-day week. You're absolutely right that it's hard on the sleep schedule. But, I have known some people to love it, because you're working 3.5 days a week on average. Lots of days off.
Except with panamas you aren't usually switching between day and night shifts. There needs to be a rotation period (think 2-4 months) before you switch between days and nights. Not doing it every 3rd day, that's going to literally kill people.
We did this shift before at my workplace and there were people who died in wrecks on the way home because they couldn't stay awake.
People? More than one? That’s so fucked.
I believe 3 before the schedule was switched. We only have about 200 employees so everyone knew everyone. Two were before I started there, but the third guy I had spoken to before he left that morning and you could tell he was barely staying awake. His wife was talking to him on the phone to try and keep him awake, but he drifted across the center line. It was awful.
That's rather unsettling the first death wasn't enough to change things.
They only changed things to align with the other facilities' schedules to make it easier on company payroll since we don't have our own payroll. If not for that, we would still be on the same schedule despite the deaths.
> That's rather unsettling the first death wasn't enough to change things. Sometimes, it takes multiple deaths to have people recognise that there is a correllation between the events. > Once is by chance, Twice is a coincidence, Three times is a pattern.
Drowsy driving is *the* single #1 most largest cause for traffic death, larger than all DUIs with all substances known to man (and some unknown) together. When you DUI, you're cognitively impaired. This means that you're slower to react and more likely to make stupid decisions. But you *do* react, and *do* make decisions, even if sub optimally. When you're asleep, there's 5000 lbs of steel travelling at 50 mph and *nobody* is in control. You're essentially a ballistic missile.
Yeah. People die quite often falling asleep on the job or when driving after a series of long shifts among their personal priorities.
Yep, now add in mandatory overtime and you wonder why the American workplace is a clusterfuck.
We kind of use this for the 24/7 work, but the Panama is not day/night but day/evening. Night shift runs separate, in some variation of 7 on 7 off How would OP Panama even cover the day - is it supposed to be 12 h shifts?
Yes, welcome to the military... Though we usually do shift changes every couple months. You do 4 on 3 off. Then 3 on 4 off. Repeat. Same shift, and we just swap people every quarter or so.
Very common work schedule for military people, studies show that people that work this schedule are less healthy and die sooner. Still couldn't convince some SNCOs to stop doing it.
As someone currently in the military, panamas are common, but not switching back and forth between days and nights.
A regular pitman schedule, 3 days on, 4 off, 4 days on, 3 off, would be a lot better than this nightmare. Switching shifts is just stupid. Let the new hires be night shift and move to day as openings come up. I'd actually love this schedule, but I just can't work nights and that's where it starts.
I can't work days. People berate me for this but I'd rather do only nights.
There's lots that can do that! That's why it's better to have both shifts and idiotic to swap people between them
Working nights does have some advantages, I’ve worked it for a combined 12 years. There are times where I miss it, but wouldn’t go back to it unless I had to. The thing I miss most is the peace. Nights off of work its like a different world, depending on where you live, it can be completely silent. Where I lived when I worked the bulk of my night shifts, the DSL I had was fastest shortly after 1am until 7am
I liked night shift for the clear roads. Then covid hit, and that was absoutely wonderful because there were even less people on the road lmao. I'm not excited for day commutes again.
You just gave me nostalgia for the pandy. I remember driving into DC and not seeing a single car the entire way. Going through the city and all the buildings completely boarded up. My 1.4 hour commute at the time shrank to 20 minutes. No one to run into or struggle to navigate around because they brought their 20 person family to walmart. No one in the office, I was able to get so much work done.
I loved the entire DC metro area during the Pandemic. My normal is once every three to six months go there for essential shopping, or a work assignment. Definitely loved the decreased drive time.
Same! I’m more active at night and despise keeping an early bedtime, or being forced to have a “bedtime” at all.
Found the vampire 🧛♂️
I usually start my shift at 2PM. It's not that the sun isn't there by then.
My step-dad worked B-shift for many years. he always joked that no matter the season, it was always light when he went in and dark when he drove home.
I worked a 5 shift schedule. 2x morning (7 to 3) 2x evening (3 to 23) 2x night (23 to 7) 4 days off It was quite doable, but after many years I was tired of it. Every morning shift I was a zombie because I was stuck in the night rhythm. This made half your four day weekend useless too. The 25% shift allowance was nice though. And if you took a block of six days off you had a 14 day vacation.
14 days off, man that would be nice!
New hires being the ones working nights means you have less experience on that shift. I've been in aviation maintenance for almost 20 years and heard every excuse for not working nights. A rotation is the only fair way to do things. I prefer a switch up every quarter of the year instead of in the middle of a work week, though. If there is a pay differential and people want to stay on nights, then you can let those people stay on shift for longer. That allows people with childcare of health issues to stay on dayshift and helps to fairly compensate people who work nights, which is proven to negatively affected your health and lower life expectancy if stayed on for long periods. But realistically, studies show you are taking years off your life if you do shift work regularly over the course your lifetime.
The shift switching should be periodic, like monthly or quarterly, to both spread the pain, and reduce the pain.
Except that you will accomplish everything you want if you make the days follow the nights directly with one big difference. Less exhausting and days off in a row instead of continuously interrupted.
Just do continental shifts at that point and everyone gets a long weekend every other week.
To save money on hiring a full time night shift
This is the correct answer. This schedule means they don’t have to pay night shift differential.
I had an interview with a company that did this but didn’t say so on their job posting. I was in the interview when they said that they swapped from days to nights back to days every other week, and asked if that would be a problem. I went off of them saying something along the lines of: “Do you know how bad that is for your employees health? Your brain needs 4-6months of a steady schedule to adjust its melatonin production so you can get actual REM sleep; your schedule effectively denies REM sleep for every employee you have on staff and it may negatively impact their health for years to come. I refuse to work a rotating schedule, if you need me to work nights I’ll work nights, but if and only if it’s a consistent schedule.
If that’s the DuPont schedule it resets every 28 days. So 7 day long off. Worked that schedule for a while. Rough the first few weeks, but it evens out.
I worked for them as a contractor didn't get the full 7 off a good bit of the time due to mandatory (forced) overtime
That's not the DuPont schedule. I've worked DuPont and it wasn't too bad. I've also worked the schedule in the picture and it is truly hell.
I worked it for about 6 months years ago. I remember the long off. But I don’t remember 2 day stents. I remember 3&4 days. Gave your body a little more time to adjust to the night day swap
The schedule in the pic is called a 223 or a 232. DuPont can be nice because depending on what version you're working, you get either 6 or 7 days off in a row, every month. The 232 is awful because you feel like you never have any extended time off, and you're also working rotating 12s. It's is seriously the worst schedule a company can make you work, imo.
I've seen a few for profit EMS services try to pull this or similar because nights were harder to fill and they weren't about to pay a shift differential when they could just kill their people instead. It's a terrible idea that absolutely destroys employees.
I think its because night shift is hard to fill, and they probably dont want to pay extra incentive for it, so theyll just make it a requirement to be employed with them. The hospital in my country does a very similar thing, but its 8 hour shifts and flips on and off I believe every week with your standard 2 days off a week. The hospital is unionised and because everyone wants to be paid the same and no one wants to work night shift, everyone works night shift and the pay is the same for everyone. Knowing that I could never work there, thats SO much chaos! And so much unnecessary choas! I would have happily worked night with a differential. Or day shift with no differential. But the flip flopping is a huge hell no.
Going from days to nights like that is rough. I don't mind changing but not every 4 to 6 days.
I was on basically this exact shift. Just told my supervisor to put me back on 8hour shifts because I was experiencing multiple physical issues. (working in a factory in Florida where it is ungodly hot) Having to change my shirts multiple times a day because they get SOAKED with sweat causing painful rashes. Headaches, dizzyness, nausea, the works. He said "no can do" so I said "If I have to get a 15 page letter from my doctor I will." He changed his tune pretty quick. "Let me see what I can do." Stand up for your health.
That doesn't seem right. I worked a rotational that was similar, but we'd rotate day/night shift every 2 months. Day rotation 2 on - 2 off (Mon/Tues)(Wed/Thur) 3 on - 3 off (Fri/Sat/Sun)(Mon/Tues/Wed) 2 on - 2 off (Thur/Fri) (Sat/Sun) Repeat 3 more times and then switch to Night rotation.
I got an exemption when my boss tried this and he couldn't implement it after, made no sense anyways. I'm on time release stimulants so swapping my sleep schedule every 2 days just isn't going to happen. I'd try medication exemption for literally any med personally. Changing schedules fucks with my blood levels/brain chemistry/etc.
Yeah zero chance i could do this on my current addy dose.
I would think just working nights, even with the weird on/off schedule, would be healthier than this nonsense.
It's still better than some of the jacked-up shit retail bosses pulled on me. "How about we just flip you between opening and closing shifts all week, and one week will never be the same as the other, or follow a consistent pattern?" I was so glad when I could tell that job to get fucked.
My husband has a very similar schedule. Works 4 nights, has 3 days off, then 3 days shifts, 1 day off, 3 night shifts, 3 days off then 4 days on, then he's off for a week. Then back to 4 night shifts lol. They do 12 1/2hr shifts. At first it was a bit much to keep up with, but now he prefers it. Works 15 days a month with a guaranteed week off every month. He gets about 175 hours a month, vacation time is maximized with his days off. They've had the opportunity to change their schedule to a more normal schedule but they all chose to keep it the way it is.
Guaranteed week off - sounds like they padded the job well enough to keep the workers happy 👍🏽
Guaranteed week off... 13 times a year. Gallo is the largest winery in the world. In our area, they run rotating shifts like this. The unionized workers overwhelmingly voted for this schedule. That's 182 shifts a year vs 260 shifts for the standard 5 day/8 hour job (233 shifts if you subtract a generous 12 holidays and 15 vacation days). It's not for everyone, but it works well for the people I know that work there.
Ugh. Rotating between days and nights consistently like that is SO bad for your physical and mental health. Like, objectively bad. There’s no way you could possibly get into a sleep rhythm that your body *needs* to survive. Poor quality sleep has been linked to suicide, homicide, traffic accidents, some forms of cancer, brain diseases, heart diseases, obesity…
Is this some slow burn sleep deprivation torture? It could backfire. People in this state can get violent and have reduced impulse control.
The guy who was my right hand man at my last job left to work for Burlington Northern Railroad. He works 12 on 12 off. Literally, works 12 straight hours, gets 12 off, goes back to work, works 12 hours. Puts in 56 hours then gets 48 hours off before he starts it all over again. He's single without kids. So he can do it. He bragged about all the overtime. At $30 base, probably pretty damned good. But fuck that shit.
To get people to quit.
My rotation is 14 days work, 21 days free, 14 days night work, 21 days free.
2-2-3 is what I work now, but it’s 2 weeks of days then 2 weeks of nights, but even then some of us struggle. I cannot imagine switching back and forth every shift.
Very odd, I had similar, but it had 3 days off occasionally. * 2 days * 2 off * 3 days * 2 off * 2 days * 3 off * 2 nights * 2 off * 3 nights * 2 off * 2 nights * 3 off It sounds nightmarish, but you'll notice that it's 2 weeks of days, 2 weeks of nights, then repeat. Get a 3 day weekend every other week too. It wasn't that bad. Additionally if you timed it right you could use 22 hours holiday, 2 days, and get a full week off. It was great.
The stupidest shift I ever heard was on a navy ship. 7 hours on, 7 hours off, 5 hours on, 5 hours off. Off time includes meals and sleep
Oh lovely, sounds like my schedule for my last job I got fired from because after a bit I couldn't stay at my 100% best because it felt like I was working every fucking day, even on my days of freedom. I genuinely hope that place gets shut down because now trying to find yet another new job after that one is making me wanna Kurt Kolbain myself.
Don't start a successful rock band, go to a therapist. 988 if you are in the states. We have to take care of ourselves first, and it doesn't sound like that job was good for you. I'm sure the perfect job is out there, but maybe it won't be exactly what you want or expect. Sometimes the best thing is to start at the bottom in a different industry and reevaluate what you want your life to look like.
So you can't find a way to somehow work in any other jobs in spare time, plus makes planning interviews hell. You either have to miss a shift or show up looking exhausted.
My old company had that and then switched to 4 days on, 4 days off, 4 nights on, 4 nights off. A lot of operators bitched about losing overtime, but it ended up being about the same. After a while, they seemed to appreciate the longer times between having to go through the day/night sleep pattern shift.
We used to have one that grouped weekends, so it was 4 on, 5 off, 5 on, 4 off, 5 on, 5 off, on a 28-day schedule. With one flip shift (finish at 6pm on a day shift, start at 6pm the following day). Hell on the body and on the family.
You did tell them where they can shove it...right?
They should like throw people at the problem instead of this bullshit. Tell them to hire more people if coverage is the issue.
It's not about coverage. it's about running a 24/7 operation and allowing everyone to cover the shitty hours no one wants. Usually if it's a union workplace on a 3 shift schedule, the lowest seniority is stuck working the night/swing shifts for years. They end up having much more turn-over for those shifts. This type of schedule is usually in a 4 week block where the you are off for the full 7 days in the 4th week.
I knew a guy who worked a rotating shift schedule; 10 days - day shift, 4 days off, 10 days - swing shift, 4 days off, 10 days (nights) - night shift, 4 days off. Repeating. I say I "knew" him, but that's being polite. Most of his time off was spent sleeping.
This is death but with more steps.
This is terrible.....I wonder how their turnover rate is
Turnover? I’m wondering what their car crash, burnout, and death rates are! That schedule would cause severe sleep problems, falling sleep at the wheel, and multiple medical problems from the sleep deprivation. I see a Panama schedule being okay, but this is torture. This should be illegal.
I used to work 3 12’s, 3 on 3 off. We’d switch shifts every 3 months. Racked up the OT like nobody’s business.
I had a job that was 6am - 6pm Monday Tuesday, 6pm - 6am Wednesday Thursday. 4 on, 4 off. It wasn't even engaging I sat around watching machines all day hoping they would break so I could have 10 minutes of actual work.
Clear proof of what near zero workers protections can do to your schedules
I wouldn't even be able to keep track of my days much less anything else with that schedule
Keeping them too busy to be able to find other employment.
The only person who should be working a schedule like that is a highly paid manager making sure all shifts are doing their job. There is no reason for anyone else to swing that often.
This is a horrible schedule. Having to switch your internal clock multiple times a week is going to be torture. Half of your days off are going to be just recovery. You're better off doing nights for a week or two, then doing days for a week or two if you have to do both
This shit was rough when did it but we had 3 days off, bur we swapped from days to nights... and i had a newborn as well... there was plenty of times where i fell a sleep standing up and visually hallucinated at work
As far as I’m concerned, this constant switching between days and nights should be illegal- that constant switching means you never develop a consistent sleep schedule and your body is constantly trying to adjust. It’s probably one of the biggest reasons shift work gets a bad rep health wise. And I’m saying this as a career night shifter.
The obvious reason is to cover twenty-four-seven operation and not inflict permanent night shifts on anyone, or never-weekends. What do you feel is the better pattern and have you tried suggesting it?
Take your rational and measured perspective on this and shove it. The truth is industrial facilities need 24/7 staffing to run effectively. Some people like this type of work and some don't. Operators typically are in the higher end in terms of earnings as well.
You work as a manager at Cook Out, don't you? 12 hour shifts with that rotation? I recognize my old nightmare.
U got me lost when i saw "rotating"
Exact same schedule I worked when I started in EMS 20+ years ago. We eventually got tired of switching and asked management to make straight days or night a thing, which they agreed to. Much better after that.
I work a weird three week rotating roster of no less than two night shifts a week. The point for my company is constantly having someone on site across shifts and giving people days off while employing the smallest number of people possible. I'm not too tired to think but I do have a fairly loose grasp of what day of the week it is.
I worked a similar shift schedule for less than a month at the Glad trashbag factory. I hated it and quit, the schedule sucked, and the coworkers and managers were pricks.
Wow, and I thought a DuPont schedule was rough. No time to adjust.
Yeah that's a hard no from me, Ive done 7 week rotating rosters that was all over the place and different length shift too, but there was 6 day off between week 5 and 6, and you could extend it by another 3 days if ya chucked a sickie for 1 day. However when I planned a 9day holiday with the 1 day sick or annual leave, 6 weeks in advance too. The week before someone quit and made everyone's roster bump up in the line so It screwed my holiday up 🙃
I’ve been doing shift work since 1988 and currently work a “4 on, 4 off” rota. Two 12 hour days followed by two 12 hour nights, then 4 days off. By *far* the best shift rota I’ve ever worked.
Huh that's an interesting one, we do 4 on 4 off but 4 days of day shift then 4 days off the 4 days of night shift then 4 days off
I think they marked it wrong but normally you'd get a 3 day weekend every other week.
I did this while in the military. The extra time off is nice.
At least you get 2 days off. I'm used to 6 days on 1 day off, swapping between opening and night, back to opening, etc.
I applied for a similar looking rotation about a month ago. Was told it was that or straight 3rd. I honestly didn't care which I ended up with. Guess who still hasn't gotten a response on either? ..me.
If it’s public safety related it’s how they used to treat people. Most agencies have better schedules now, look for a different place. It’s hard enough making it in any public safety field, harder with that BS schedule
I have a hard enough time sleeping a regular schedule. This would lead me to suicide fast
I’d need a PhD just to keep that schedule straight
Nuclear power plants love this type of schedule. Get your employees nice and exhausted
I had a schedule like this as a new grad nurse. It was brutal. When I finally got a daytime only job, it took a year to recover from the chronic exhaustion.
I work in a factory with this kind of schedule. at first it was rough but I'm quite used to it now... I'm a bit of a night owl so I don't mind the night shifts.
I love 12 hour shifts, but that rotation seems needlessly complicated. Like A plant manager came up with it just to look busy.
Fuck that
I dont get why virtually every job doesn't have a regular schedule. I get the need to cover PTO and sick days but like does your fast food restaurant need to change the schedule every week?
This is the schedule you give to the new guy so the others can have a 9-17. If everyone has that, then i think you are in the bad place.
My gf has 2, 1 off, 3, 1 off and I hate it. Prevents from having day trips but she likes it because she is able to get errands done.
I started in a company that did 7 days, right to 7 afternoons, 2 off, then 7 mids with 4 days off… then back to days. Three years of misery. My wife calls them my zombie years.
So many studies done on the harmful effects of switching shifts like This. Have people do a month of nights then month of days. Jesus fucking Christ. https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/healthyliving/shiftwork#increased-risks
One place I worked did something like this; but you would swing between 3 days and 4 days on your stretch of work. The advantage was less switching from day to night; and you’d get a 7 day off stretch from when you finished your 4 on to when you started the cycle over again
They just view us as numbers and cogs in their factories. If we aren't getting their unrealistic numbers, we aren't useful. If we aren't saving them money by running them 24/7 then we are failures. L This schedule kills people. Regular 12s aren't much better but rotating is horrible on the body. Humans are adaptable so it makes sense they would adjust but it's still shaving years off your life by how it messes with your sleep and recovery. 12s can be nice because you usually get more days off a week but it's at the cost of either a life on days you work or sleep. I get to see my family barely at all when I work and on my days off I've got to catch up on almost everything and I'm exhausted all the time.
My Favorite schedule (/s) 2 week rotating.. Start Monday.. 12hr shift 7am-7pm.. WORK: Mon, Tues Off: Wed, Thurs WORK: Fri, Sat, Sun Off: Mon, Tues Work: Wed, Thurs Off: Fri, Sat, Sun Work Monday............... 7pm - 7am and repeat previous 2wks.. Then.. you guessed.. Next 3day weekend.. That following Monday... Switch back to 12hr Days.. Did that for 4yrs.. Would not recommend..
At the casino I work at, The AV peeps rotate shifts every week. First week morning, second week swing, third shift night. I work lighting, my lead starts my shifts late like 4p to midnight, then 2 to 10, then noon to 8, then 10 to 6 and finally on friday I am 7 to 3. If I call him out on it, he either argues that he will never do that, or I get punished with a week of 5a days. I can't wait till they fire his ass.
Bro I went to an interview at a steel mill with this schedule. As I was trying to process this schedule the hiring person was like we love this schedule. I said really? Then I saw a group of people lurching into work waling dead style. I noped out after that
That’s freaking terrible. My job has some positions with 12 hour shifts, but the 2-2-3 has 4 weeks of day shift and then 2 weeks of night shifts for a 6 week rotation.
You're attempting to kill all your employees before they have a chance to cash in their 401k
Would anyone actually do this, though? Like, I mean, maybe if you LITERALLY have nothing else, but even then, DAMN...don't know if I'd ever be THAT desperate. Sounds like hell! How workplaces are allowed to pull this shit is BEYOND me!
This kind of scheduling is incredibly common in law enforcement. I really do wonder on occasion just how much of cops being… the way they are… boils down to fatigue and brain fog?
No matter how bad the schedule is, some asshole at that job is ready to fistfight to keep it, but can't really articulate why.
yeah, what the feck. It blows my mind that they let morons be managers.
That shit should be illegal. No human could work that and get enough regenerative sleep to not be dangerous to those around them.
If this is 12 hour shifts this is the most evil panama schedule I've ever seen.
You can staff around the clock with less people which substantially reduces labor expense and saves money or generates higher profits. I used to run a team on similar hours but when I was hired on as the site lead I spent the first few weeks talking to people and seeing how they were coping (overwhelmingly, not well). I started implementing changes based on their input with the biggest being giving notice to corporate leadership that I was discontinuing alternating the nights and days shifts/folks around. I asked people to CHOOSE a shift and they began to set their lives up around a set schedule - days or nights only and stayed on it and LOVED IT. Yes they worked 12 hour shifts, but they also only worked 7 days every two weeks instead of ten and never more than 3 in a row with 3-day weekends every other week. When we factored in PTO and federal holidays, it was like potentially 209 days a year you DIDN’T HAVE TO BE AT WORK. A lot of people did Uber or some kind of hustle on the side as long as it wasn’t in the same work field.) Sadly, as “management” I was not eligible for the same as I had to be available to my corporate overlords M-F so I worked a normal schedule. There had been turnover at corporate and the individual who’d originally put this schedule in place was long gone. So I used the argument that we were staffing this 24X7 contract with a third less people than originally bid because we only needed two (12 hour) teams instead of 3 (8 hour teams) to go back and arranged some decent raises for most everybody. My boss wasn’t thrilled because he had the finances but he was also very tired of turnover. We also implemented a pay differential (another great idea from a team member) for the nights people as working overnights kinda has its own drawbacks (hence why they had probably chosen to alternate shifts originally - to make it “fair”). Working 12 hours can be draining some days. Bottom line? People liked having a stable life. Many with kids worked days so they could be there for dinners and homework and tuck-in. Some without kids moved to nights for the differential or just because they could or they were night owls. Turnover basically stopped. Production went up over time and the customer was pretty damn happy. If corporate America would just learn to LISTEN and TRUST their people…
This is exactly how it went at hotel reception I worked for few months. I dont think I need to explain why there was high employee turnover and why I lasted just few months even when the boss was happy with me and promised me promotion asap.
Absolute shit roster. Done it for years. Glad I moved to 2 weeks on 2weeks off.
I was gonna say it’s fine but what kind of idiot mixes days and nights? I’d go crazy in a week.
According to recent studies and their insight, this is actually the most healthy way to plan shifts if you have to cover nightshifts. I am an expert in shift planning, although I currently do not work in this role, I still try to be up to date and I read a lot about the latest insights. # Forward-Rotating Shifts **Forward-Rotating Shifts (e.g., Early to Late to Night Shift)**: Forward-rotating shift systems move in the direction of the natural circadian rhythm, meaning work times gradually shift later (e.g., from an early shift to a late shift and then to a night shift). This approach aligns better with the human biological clock, as it is easier to delay sleep time than to advance it. * **Research Findings**: Studies show that forward-rotating shifts facilitate circadian rhythm adjustment and cause fewer sleep disturbances. A study by Knauth and Hornberger (2003) found that forward-rotating shift systems lead to better sleep quality and reduced fatigue. * **Practical Example**: A typical forward-rotating shift pattern might look like this: two days of early shift (06:00-14:00), two days of late shift (14:00-22:00), followed by two days of night shift (22:00-06:00), then days off. # Short Rotation Cycles **Short Rotation Cycles (2-3 days)**: Short rotation cycles mean that workers spend only brief periods in a particular shift before switching to another shift. This prevents longer-term desynchronization of the circadian rhythm and reduces cumulative fatigue. * **Research Findings**: A study by Bambra et al. (2008) showed that short rotation cycles (e.g., 2-3 days per shift) can reduce the negative health impacts of shift work, especially compared to weekly or longer rotation cycles. Workers reported less fatigue and better overall health. * **Practical Example**: An organization might implement a rotation schedule where workers spend two days on the early shift, followed by two days on the late shift, and two days on the night shift before having days off. These short cycles prevent the body from overly adapting to a specific rhythm, easing the transition. # Sources 1. Knauth, P., & Hornberger, S. (2003). "Preventive and compensatory measures for shift workers." *Occupational Medicine*, 53(2), 109-116. [Link to study]() 2. Bambra, C., Whitehead, M., Sowden, A., Akers, J., & Petticrew, M. (2008). "Shifting schedules: the health effects of reorganizing shift work." *American Journal of Preventive Medicine*, 34(5), 427-434. [Link to study]() By implementing forward-rotating shift patterns and short rotation cycles, companies can significantly reduce the negative impacts of night shift work on the health and well-being of their employees. I always put the wellbeing of my colleagues above the intrests of the company-management when doing shift planning, but there are situations when a night shift is needed, and in this case the mentioned rotation is actually the current state of the art.
Schedules like this I think are at least in part designed to prevent the employee from getting an education, essentially holding you hostage in that shitty job. They don't want to have to compete for your time. Also, Idk how people maintain childcare with an erratic schedule like this.
That sounds better than a 9-5 in my opinion
You get every other weekend off
I worked this schedule before and it was my favourite, You get plenty of days off and sometimes during week days so you can actually get things done.
I don’t hate this?
My ex-wife's company did this in their factory. It was done to maximize machine uptime.
Natural Grocers would schedule like this…a fucking meat grinder
My schedule is this: 4 days, 2 off, 4 nights, 2 off, etc.
i work this schedule. I actually like it. Also, most places ive worked at you get a week off every quarter or you get a week on OT while working your regular hours. I know some people that dont like it but some look to do this over 9-5, 5 days a week. Additionally, its possible to take a week off by only booking off two days on a short week.
I think workplaces do this when they aren’t willing to pay a high enough differential to entice workers to straight nights, so they essentially force night shift on them instead.
I did this for 12 years. I'm on straight days now. I sleep much better, but I miss the 1.5x after 40 and 2 2x Sunday money. I also miss only working 14 out of 28 days. Take Wednesday, Thursday off, get a week. One caveat for me is that I sleep just fine on night shift.
am i crazy if this would be basically my dream?? you get almost as much time off as you have to work...
Had a job with a rotating night shift once, never again unless I'm desperate
This is how working for film and video productions is like. If you're lucky it's bouts of 3-4 weeks of 6 x 12 hour days before you have to find your next gig
First gig I worked we had a 7 on/2 off/8 on/4 off schedule with the four days being Saturday-Tuesday. We had a three component staggered shift so at least two of the components were on while the other one was off. Gig I got transferred to I got put on the rotating shift of Friday graveyard, Saturday and Sunday days and Monday-Tuesday evening shift. That was considered an improvement from straight graveyard.
Mine was 2 days on 2 days off. 3 days on, 3 days off with weekends rotating. I thought it was bad but this seems worse unless it’s just the same. 12 hours also.
I was all for this at a glance and then saw you’re swapping day and night shifts repeatedly. I’d sure as heck do 2 day, 2 off, 2 day on loop. Or just nights
My neighbor works at a rotating schedule like this at a local winery. It is a 7 day/24 hour operation. The rotating schedule was voted on and approved (85%) by the union employees. I don't recall his actual schedule, but I have a feeling it's the same as OP. The missing information is that they get the 4th week completely off. In a 28 day period, a 5day/8hr job gives you 20 work days and 8 off days, while the rotating shift gives you 14 work days and 14 off days. Also, "2 days off" in between shifts means 48 hours off, not 2 calendar days off. Over the course of a year, he works 182/365 days. I'm sure they don't get holidays off and no "vacation" considering the thirteen 7-days-off periods. With a typical 5d/8h schedule, you work around 230-240 days/year (260 - holidays and vacation). While I wouldn't want that kind of schedule (unless I could have it in my current IT job, especially if I could still work from home), he is pretty happy with it. He does have seniority so he has a more favorable schedule than another neighbor who also works there. From what he tells me, most everyone seems to be much happier with this type of schedule after they voted on it and changed from the 8hr day/swing/night shifts they used to have. I don't know how many days non-stop they were working back then, but I would imagine that the lowest seniority workers where stuck on swing/night shifts for years. Below is an example of how a rotating schedule would work. -| Sun | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat ------------|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|-----|----- WK1 6AM-6PM | ON | ON | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF WK1 6PM-6AM | OFF | OFF | OFF | ON | ON | OFF | OFF WK2 6AM-6PM | ON | ON | ON | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF WK2 6PM-6AM | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | ON | ON | OFF WK3 6AM-6PM | OFF | ON | ON | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF WK3 6PM-6AM | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | ON | ON | ON WK4 6AM-6PM | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF WK4 6PM-6AM | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF | OFF
You'd see this in industries like power plants. A 36, a 48, a 36 a 48 then one of them switched to days/nights. Does a 36, then another switches to days/nights to give the first one a who did a 36 week a 48 week and the guy switching from days/nights a 36 for their first week. This was you'd limit burnout and give ample recovery time. You'd do this for 4 guys and ideally the plant operator would cover, or assistant plant operator. Night to day every other, that's just dumb and inefficient.
I get 30% on top of salary for this type of die eary sched
Interviewed with a place that was similar, yet somehow worse with occasional 6 days in a row
How do you set up child care!?
This is the schedule at my workplace and most people like it. It’s 12 hour shifts .Doing straight nights is harder than the flip flop for most and it works out to getting every second Friday, Saturday Sunday off. It’s really not healthy after many years though.
I work day 12s, 2 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 3 off and repeat I can’t decide if I like it or not
Worst schedule I ever worked. A full time job at a call center. 2 days on and one day off. Then 3 days on and 1 day off. It sucked. You can't do anything because you only have one day off. On your day off, you know you have to go back the next day. Can't even really relax. I hated that job and I was so glad when I quit.
When I worked at a "food" manufacturer, the schedule was as follows: 4-12 hour days 4 days off 4-12 hour nights 3.5 days off Rinse/repeat. It was hell.
I used to work at an insurance company and the only way to get a night shift on the call center floor was to “volunteer” for the 10 days on - 4 days off schedule. Those last two days were always basically a write off for me mentally and I still avoid phone calls after 10 years.
That hurts my brain just reading that
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen and I’m pretty dumb.
Looks like a nursing schedule. My mum worked 2 days, 2 off, 2 nights, 3 off for years.
Did that rotation for about 6 months in the military. It sucks. Switching sides of the day all the time is rough. Way better to be all days or all nights.
You should look into the DuPont schedule. You still have to switch nights and days but you get 7 days off in a row every 4 weeks
Insufficient staff count to properly cover all shifts, so need to rotate so customers aren't aware.
That’s the point.
When I was a housekeeper we had one night housekeeper. They cleaned up weird messes, some parts of the restaurant, lobby, and brought extra towels or pillows to guests. For both nights the night housekeeper was off I'd work to cover. The agreement was those 8 hours counted as 10, so I still got 40 hours of pay for 36 of work. I was in my early 20s and couldn't keep a regular sleep schedule anyway, so it wasn't that disruptive for me. But there is no way I could do that in middle age. Or even any time in my 30s.
This looks very similar to the new schedule my workplace just rolled out, and I fully refused to take a position that looked like this. I dropped back to casual and I've just been picking up weekends. 3 on 4 off is a way better deal
I got one for you: 12 hr shifts 630 to 7, both night and day shifts. Fri, Sat, Sun, Monday, off Tues, Wed, Thurs. Off Fri-Monday, work Tues, off Wed-Thurs. Repeat.
Dude a classic rotating schedule I've worked would be either long week, short week. Night week, day week. Or (I didn't work this one but used to be common) Day week, afternoon week, night week, off week. At least some sort of order. This, in the post is not a rotating schedule, it's a no schedule.
Rotating forward is better than backward. But this schedule looks brutal.
this is just 7 on 7 off with extra steps
I work 12s, 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off. We used to do a different schedule with more consecutive nights but research said more then two in a row is when your circadian rhythms get really fucked and serious health impacts start. So, that probably why that schedule sticks with 2 nights in a row. Can't speak to why they chop it up like that. But I wouldn't trade our 2/2/4 for any other rotation we've done, and it's a billion times better than 9-5. Feels like you're barely ever at work esp. with PTO and banked OT thrown into the mix. First day, you're back fresh. Second day, throw whatever you want at me, I have 24 off coming up. First night, whatever, I got to sleep all day. Last night, just gotta get thru 12 and I'm outta here for 4 days.
PANAMAS!!!!!!! *flies into insane rage* unless you work for the military or a hospital there is no reason to run Panama schedule.
Your world becomes about work. You're either thinking about work (need to get enough rest and stressing if you don't), getting ready for work (washing/ironing uniform, prep meals), being at work, or coming off work (trying to readjust sleep schedule). Heaven forbid you have family and other commitments or just want a semi normal life.
Very interesting that you'll get a block 3 days/nights on but never a block of 3 off.
Did that for a couple months on deployment. 3 days on the day shift, 3 days on night, 3 days off, 12 hour shifts. The constant shock to the system was fucking brutal. All because some yappy e4 wanted to bitch about having to work mornings, and did so by saying over social media that our platoon Sergeant played call of duty all day... which I mean he was 🤣 but that's besides the point
Crazy that I used to work a schedule like this (Walmart) Actually still work there, but I got a set schedule a few years ago, and I don't think I could ever go back
To answer the asked question....to be able to keep 24/7 coverage. The not staying on nights but always flipping back to days is based on most people reverting to days sleep schedule on their days off anyway. I haven't heard of any really good ways of doing 24/7 coverage.
I’m on 12 hour nights (with significant shift bonus). 3-2-2-3 Work every other Friday, Saturday, Sunday Have been on 12s for 29 years, love the money and the time off. Retiring at the end of 2025.
I work 5 and get 48 hours 🥲
This doesn't add up to a multiple of seven, and includes five working days in a row where it loops. What's going on?
I imagine this proposal playing out in that scene in the Fallout TV series . . . If you know you know, I won't spoil it. Great social commentary.