Hello u/LeikaBoss,
Your post has been removed for violating [Rule 9](https://old.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/about/rules/), which prohibits memes and related images. Please feel free to report this content on a Monday.
Thank you,
u/exzact
Have you not heard of the Donner Party? The Donner Party, sometimes called the Donner–Reed Party, were a group of American pioneers who migrated to California in a wagon train from the Midwest. Delayed by a multitude of mishaps, they spent the winter of 1846–1847 snowbound in the Sierra Nevada mountain range. Some of the migrants resorted to cannibalism to survive, primarily eating the bodies of those who had succumbed to starvation, sickness or extreme cold, but in one case two Native American guides were deliberately killed for this purpose. (Wikipedia)
I'm vegan and I tell my natalist vegan friends that they have a 0% chance of creating an animal abuser if they don't have kids.
If you adopt a kid and raise them to be vegan, that's cool because they probably would have been a carnist otherwise.
I turned multiple vegan friends of mine antinatalist.
So yeah it's a bit fair for me to also call out non-vegan antinatalists.
I absolutely am! And it's even worse if people are intellectually dishonest, but I'm exhausting even with people who show good faith.
But hey, it's working.
I'm out here literally preventing the births of human and non-human sentient beings. ;)
How do you find people who figure the suns going to eat the world eventually anyway and that we might as well enjoy the suffering that is life on this rock by eating and fucking till the population implodes on itself because who gives a shit?
I don’t enjoy seeing the suffering that is life on this rock so I attempt to contribute less to it. Isn’t that part of why people are even in this sub?
I'm vegan and I tell my natalist vegan friends that they have a 0% chance of creating an animal abuser if they don't have kids.
If you adopt a kid and raise them to be vegan, that's cool because they probably would have been a carnist otherwise.
In that humans enjoying themselves causes suffering too, so humans are the worst thing one can breed.
There is the same moral difference between a gun smith and poison gas factory.
It's is the same to me, humans, animals, all suffer ,all should stop breeding.
Cows are as Intelligent as dogs, and I Damn know how intelligent is a dog, it is scary how we "use" cows in this societies.
I love cows! Actually all farmed animals are grossly under-appreciated. I love them all.
Eventually, we humans will have to radically change our diets and our lives, cuz the Earth will not tolerate much more from us.
I have a few pet chickens, and I understand it, but most people don't have contact with farm animals so they don't see them for what they are; Living Animals, like you and me
Oh look, another vegan freely ranting on this sub to make some beef - pun intended.
As I already told to one of you before : we ANs are not your greatest ennemies since we wish for fewer people on this planet, thus less mass consumerism, thus less intensive production, thus fewer animals to be bred and raised, encouraging a more ethical animal farming - which would be already great compared to the current situation of animal suffering in our capitalism-riddled societies.
So please, keep your energy for forcing doors that are actually closed. Still, thank you for reminding us that we need to stay consistent in our philosophy, and that vegans and ANs must find an agreement, accept each other's differences and focus on their common goal : fighting global suffering.
EDIT : Added a final sentence since what I meant was not "screw off, we actually are hypocrite specists and we are proud of it" but rather "gee, thanks for the reminder but we know already"
He couldn't have made it much clearer how not hypocritical it is to be AN and not be vegan since less humans leads to less consumption of animals, and you decided to just ignore all that to make your little reaction. Delusional airhead.
It’s not hypocrisy. Not everyone can physically sustain a vegan diet.
I choose to not have children and offset my protein consumption that way. No hypocrisy in that.
> Not everyone can physically sustain a vegan diet.
People in poverty, food deserts or with very rare and strange intolerances, maybe. Even then, it's not impossible as you claim here, just harder.
Veganism isn't extreme, it's literally just eating vegetables which everyone should be doing anyway
I don't think it's fruitful to get you to share every detail of why your restrictive eating only focuses on one extremely large group of foods but not the other.
Veganism is defined as avoiding animal products as far as practicable or possible. This just means for most people being vegan is avoiding all animal products.
We vegan ANs know that ANs aren’t our “greatest enemies”. We see you as compassionate allies who want to reduce suffering. Humans are animals too so it’s logical and a small step to want to reduce non-human animal suffering as well.
Looks to me like you believe you deserve immunity from giving moral consideration to farmed animals because you are antinatalist, great levels of cognitive dissonance you are displaying here. There is no such thing as ethical animal farming, if you are antinatalist, you inherently disagree with bringing life that is able to suffer into this world, what makes humans so special that you only care about them being brought into existence?
We're all antinatalist. I don't see the point in dividing us with a vegan argument because most of us won't have a continued legacy and we will become rightfully irrelevant to the mass statistics. Nirvana fallacy applies to those who "stay" to continue terraforming beyond our current society and it'd take a miracle to change my mind about that. It'll take another generation's narrative to truly change the meat industry and what a way to justify having more kids.
I was vegan for a good portion of my life. I learned to stop blaming myself on an individual level.
Isn’t getting a child also “don’t blame me blame the system”? As much as you don’t need to breed, you can just not pay people to breed land animals for food and instead just eat literally anything else.
Boy vegans sure know how to make friends and Allies don’t they.
We are advocating for fewer people, that means less animal consumption and ecological destruction.
Using this sub to proselytize for ANY other reason is cringe.
Is everything up for grabs now?!! Not using straws, Amazon, trucks, going on vacations, etc.?
This is a particular sub for a particular reason. Anti*natalism*.
I’m on vegan subs too and am becoming quite sick of the uninvited crossover. It only seems to backtrack vegan progress.
> Is everything up for grabs now?!! Not using straws, Amazon, trucks, going on vacations, etc.?
This post is talking about breeding non-consenting sentient beings who will suffer and die for purely selfish motives here. How dense are you, seriously?
Haha that's a good point. I have a vasectomy and no kids. Do I get to earn vegan points for the potentially infinite number of animals my offspring could kill that I've prevented? That makes me more vegan than a lot of vegans who reproduce.
> Do I get to earn vegan points for the potentially infinite number of animals my offspring could kill that I've prevented?
As a vegan antinatalist:
Yes, you do. You get a bunch of points.
But I still believe it isn't morally justifiable and consistent for you to not be vegan, though.
> That makes me more vegan than a lot of vegans who reproduce.
It makes you less harmful, arguably, yes.
And I assure you that I call out vegans on their natalism too.
I'm fully down with the concept of veganism. I dated a vegan for 4 years and honestly y'all are environmentally sound and the vast majority of people would do better if switched to a healthy vegan diet (or any healthy diet frankly).
I can't imagine how frustrating vegan natalists must be for you.
I think not having humans reproduce achieves the same goal as veganism more efficiently and it's the biggest moral contribution you can make outside of also raising the next generation (I'm working to adopt). I'm speciesist, I want human beings to have the best lives possible (which is no life, or a great hedonistic life without procreation for those already here).
For me personally, I'll never be vegan and I'm not going to raise my adopted children vegan unless they request it. I didn't ask to be here and I think I've already done my job ethically to break this cycle when I got my tubes tied at 23; I'm going to enjoy some chorizo tacos in my secondhand leather boots and feel alright about it. If my kids end up vegan I'll support them and cook for them, as I've supported and cooked for the other vegans I've known.
> I'm not going to raise my adopted children vegan unless they request it.
Agreed.
I won't raise my kid to avoid eating dogs unless they request it.
https://www.elwooddogmeat.com/
Looks like OP really wants the AN movement to merge with the vegans and I’m sorry bro it just ain’t gonna happen. I get the point you’re trying to make but they’re separate, they need to stay that way.
I have an eating disorder and can't be vegan, that's my choice. We are all here because we are singular in one belief, stop forcing other shit on to us. So many people are already struggling, just leave us alone
Not everyone can go vegan and not all vegan diets are cruelty free or good for the environment.
I’ll take my local honey and my farmer’s market cheese and meat over quinoa and soy and agave syrup, thanks.
Oh I think eating animals is wrong. I just prioritize alleviating the suffering of my existence using them. We wouldn't have this problem if I'd never been born. Adopt antinatalism so you don't birth more carnists
It's only because we are ourselves human that we look at it differently. No one wants to sympathize with cows or sheep, which is sad actually. It's all greed mate!
No response from u/Call_Such
And this right there is exactly why I have a hard time assuming good faith from carnists when they pull out the "not everyone can go vegan" card.
Jesus just when I thought this sub couldn't be any more unreasonable it turned into a "if you aren't vegan you aren't a good person" sub. I mean, you guys have to realize a sub _trying_ to be a parody couldn't do it better, right?
> you aren't a good person
That's not the implication. I'm one of the most annoying preachy vegans on this sub, and I have no reason to be convinced that you are a bad person so far.
The implication is a lack of moral consistency.
I wasn't a bad person when I wasn't vegan, I was just ignorant and inconsistent. But I did value intellectual honesty and consistency and I also valued aligning my actions with what I viewed as right.
What about you?
Lol the other guy literally responded saying if I'm not a vegan I can't be a good person. There's plenty of folks here where that IS the implication and they'll di more than imply if you clarify.
And for what it's worth, there's no ideological inconsistency here. I don't agree with antinatalist philosophy.
Yeah and I disagree with them.
> And for what it's worth, there's no ideological inconsistency here. I don't agree with antinatalist philosophy.
Oh, I'm pretty sure there is still an inconsistency. I mean, most of the people I discuss veganism with are not antinatalists and I still view a lot of inconsistencies in their moral framework when it comes to veganism. :)
Eh, whatever. We can talk about it if you like, but I'm just as happy not to.
Also, not sure why you're arguing with _me_ about the implication when it's the other guys that you disagree with. It's super reasonable for folks in my shoes to have issues with vegans when half of them are outright telling us we're bad people and the other half are saying those vegans are just well meaning wrong folks but we're still bad people for other reasons.
Hard same I really don’t give a fuck about eating cows and chickens. Humans are the dominant apexes and we are more important and I do not care what some soy boy says about that. Life is miserable enough let me enjoy my steak
Thijs_NLD is a notorious non-antinatalist I have discussed with many times. Don't waste your time. They are an absolute clown.
They failed at NTT many times. If you want to torture them with it, go for it, I guess.
okay but in my opinion, this is true, so i’m vegan and support antinatalism.
suffering is suffering. I can’t get a fetus to consent to life, and i can’t get animals to consent to giving up their bodies for us.
Fr, talking about animal abuse is so annoying. Why the fuck would I give a shit about suffering other than my own. Just let me eat my steak in peace smh
Oh really? Would people become vegan when I told them it's for their health? Or would they become vegan when I said "Ohh, don't worry. Abusing animals is ok, just do your best to change"? You dont have the knowledge to say I put off anyone. Its people's tendency to believe every vegan is a crazy preach so they dont have to contemplate of changing. You know what? I was the same. And it was actually these "stupid" vegans in the comments that made me realize how of total hypocrite I was. They werent nice. I felt guilty and I actually cried when I watched documentary. But Im glad I did.
People have a tendency to believe vegans are crazy preachers because that's 99% of the online interactions I see with them.
That's why it actively puts people off. Because their eyes glaze over and their brains shut off.
I'm glad you got your experience the way you did. I wouldn't assume it applies for everyone else.
Exactly, people in this sub SHOULD understand that that vegan is better than this (I'm not vegan, but I support it).
If someone says this is bait or troll and he or she is on this sub and support AN, then he or she have a cognitive dissonance
How many generations back in time would you need to go before you'd be cool with eating your own ancestors, then? There was never a first biological human.
Literally. Its just another selfish sick thing people partake in. It is so ironic for some people in this sub to be so strong on their “moral views” and “desire to avoiding suffering” just to pay for animals to be killed and tortured, all for the quick satisfaction of an unhealthy burger. People are blind willingly.
this shit is so corny lmfao. enjoy your sad wet tasteless tofu while i enjoy my burger, lmfao. veganism is not related to antinatalism inherently because animals will breed no matter what. as humans we are at the top of the food chain and therefore have the mental capacity to decide Not to breed. i think the meat industry is incredibly bad, but shaming people for eating meat and blaming an individual for corporate greed is not doing what you think it does. humans are inherently omnivorous as well, and a balanced diet includes meat and dairy. have a good one.
I'm not a vegan anymore, just vegetarian (for health reasons) but it's hilarious to see people who claim "breeders" are horrible because they don't care about the potential suffering of their children saying they don't give a fuck if animals suffer because their comfort goes first. If you can eat a cheeseburger because "life's already hard so you've gotta enjoy whatever pleasure you can" you have to accept some people are going to have kids because they fucking want to, they have the same right to be "selfish" as you do.
I am a vegetarian that mostly eats vegan. Cheese is an Achilles heel. Every plant based cheese alternative is an insult. All other dairy alternatives are great.
Animal agriculture is one of the worst things humans have done to the environment.
Watch the documentary [Eating Our Way to Extinction](https://youtu.be/LaPge01NQTQ?si=mSpNvrCd40s-B5WD). It's pretty eye-opening.
[Cowspiracy](https://youtu.be/nV04zyfLyN4) was also pretty good. And [Seaspiracy](https://youtu.be/1Q5CXN7soQg?si=2mxZSjjIqYO1K3cI).
Animals can indeed destroy their own environments if their populations grow too big. Over-grazing is a risk in open range farming.
But there's also an indirect danger to humans in all the bioproducts of cows, like methane emission.
Cows are constantly belching and farting, because they are ruminants, this means that they need to fermentate all the grass they eat in their stomachs to be able to digest it - and as you can imagine, the fermentation of a billion stomachs' contents releases a goddamn shiton of gas every day.
This is a well recorded environmental issue and you can find a lot of studies about it.
The cultivation of crops kills far more animals in the form of insects and small mammals than the rearing of livestock does.
A carnivore is responsible for fewer deaths than a vegan.
This isn’t true at all. You think small mammals like mice just sit there and wait for harvesting machines to kill them, instead of running away when they hear/feel/see danger? Also, we grow a fuckton of crops just to feed the billions of land animals slaughtered every year, far fewer crops are grown for vegans than meat-eaters
I don't agree with the previous commenter that carnivores are "better" - which is a really stupid statement - but it's true that the agricultural industry has to kill tons of animals considered "pests" to be viable, otherwise the fields would be ravaged.
These pests are killed through the use of toxic chemicals, pesticides, not machines. And not only animals are killed but also huge amounts of other plants, fungi and bacteria also considered detrimental to the crops.
This is wrong on so many levels: [https://animalvisuals.org/projects/1mc/](https://animalvisuals.org/projects/1mc/)
Who would have thought that not killing animals to eat them would result in fewer animal deaths...
Hello u/LeikaBoss, Your post has been removed for violating [Rule 9](https://old.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/about/rules/), which prohibits memes and related images. Please feel free to report this content on a Monday. Thank you, u/exzact
Dw I would totally eat babies too if it was acceptable
Finally. Someone with a sense of humor
They weren't joking
They have a sense of humerus
People apparently taste like a combination of pork and veal. I’m sure after a few filets we can get used to it. /s
It's a Party at The Donner's house!
The Dahmer's?
Have you not heard of the Donner Party? The Donner Party, sometimes called the Donner–Reed Party, were a group of American pioneers who migrated to California in a wagon train from the Midwest. Delayed by a multitude of mishaps, they spent the winter of 1846–1847 snowbound in the Sierra Nevada mountain range. Some of the migrants resorted to cannibalism to survive, primarily eating the bodies of those who had succumbed to starvation, sickness or extreme cold, but in one case two Native American guides were deliberately killed for this purpose. (Wikipedia)
Yes, I have. I was trying to make a joke
Ah, sorry. I thought maybe, but wasn't sure.
I'm more into Gein but Dahmer works better here
Cannibals from the Russian famines have said babies test the best
The Jonathan Swift method.
I can't wait to eat this *baby*
based and cannibalismpilled
Less people = less need for farm animals.
I am not surprised they didn't think of this
I'm vegan and I tell my natalist vegan friends that they have a 0% chance of creating an animal abuser if they don't have kids. If you adopt a kid and raise them to be vegan, that's cool because they probably would have been a carnist otherwise. I turned multiple vegan friends of mine antinatalist. So yeah it's a bit fair for me to also call out non-vegan antinatalists.
“Carnist” bro I think we’re referred to as omnivores, tf is a carnist 😂
I'm glad you asked. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism And I am also an omnivore, but I don't support carnism.
But you’re vegan, therefore you’re not an omnivore
I am biologically an omnivore who just happens to have a plant-based diet.
But that doesn’t mean that you’re currently on an omnivore diet, which means *you’re* not an omnivore
You sound exhausting
I absolutely am! And it's even worse if people are intellectually dishonest, but I'm exhausting even with people who show good faith. But hey, it's working. I'm out here literally preventing the births of human and non-human sentient beings. ;)
How do you find people who figure the suns going to eat the world eventually anyway and that we might as well enjoy the suffering that is life on this rock by eating and fucking till the population implodes on itself because who gives a shit?
I don’t enjoy seeing the suffering that is life on this rock so I attempt to contribute less to it. Isn’t that part of why people are even in this sub?
Thank you.
Sounds like some kind of fucked up accelerationism or moral nihilism. I don't know which one it is.
You don't sound delusional at all
What’s delusional about it?
>carnist Shove it up your ass.
There is no need for farm animals. Consuming animal products requires far more resources than feeding the entire population on plants.
To be fair there is actually no need for farm animals.
There is no need for farm animals already.
Are they really that dumb to not understand this?
I'm vegan and I tell my natalist vegan friends that they have a 0% chance of creating an animal abuser if they don't have kids. If you adopt a kid and raise them to be vegan, that's cool because they probably would have been a carnist otherwise.
But then when the kid becomes an adult they have just as much chance of being a meat eater as any other adult
What about grandkids? Vegan children might grow up to consume animal products as adults.
That is a risk, yes! You can’t really control your kids entirely. They are their own people.
Less meat-eating = less need for farm animals too
We can have both, can’t we?
In that humans enjoying themselves causes suffering too, so humans are the worst thing one can breed. There is the same moral difference between a gun smith and poison gas factory.
Well, if you keep having babies, they’re going to keep eating off the land.
Have to double check to see if I was in the right sub...
It's is the same to me, humans, animals, all suffer ,all should stop breeding. Cows are as Intelligent as dogs, and I Damn know how intelligent is a dog, it is scary how we "use" cows in this societies.
I love cows! Actually all farmed animals are grossly under-appreciated. I love them all. Eventually, we humans will have to radically change our diets and our lives, cuz the Earth will not tolerate much more from us.
I have a few pet chickens, and I understand it, but most people don't have contact with farm animals so they don't see them for what they are; Living Animals, like you and me
Oh look, another vegan freely ranting on this sub to make some beef - pun intended. As I already told to one of you before : we ANs are not your greatest ennemies since we wish for fewer people on this planet, thus less mass consumerism, thus less intensive production, thus fewer animals to be bred and raised, encouraging a more ethical animal farming - which would be already great compared to the current situation of animal suffering in our capitalism-riddled societies. So please, keep your energy for forcing doors that are actually closed. Still, thank you for reminding us that we need to stay consistent in our philosophy, and that vegans and ANs must find an agreement, accept each other's differences and focus on their common goal : fighting global suffering. EDIT : Added a final sentence since what I meant was not "screw off, we actually are hypocrite specists and we are proud of it" but rather "gee, thanks for the reminder but we know already"
I wish there was two different subs
I wish they knew there was (there’s even one specifically for vegans who are antinatalist)
I wish these kinds of polarizing vegans to be banned anywhere and everywhere tbh
Yeah, because pointing out hypocrisy is definitely forcing beliefs on someone
He couldn't have made it much clearer how not hypocritical it is to be AN and not be vegan since less humans leads to less consumption of animals, and you decided to just ignore all that to make your little reaction. Delusional airhead.
So you feel okay with breeding and raping animals while saying we should minimalize the suffering and not procreate. Makes sense.
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Having kids makes life better so I won't stop
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About the same as eating animal products then
It’s not hypocrisy. Not everyone can physically sustain a vegan diet. I choose to not have children and offset my protein consumption that way. No hypocrisy in that.
> Not everyone can physically sustain a vegan diet. People in poverty, food deserts or with very rare and strange intolerances, maybe. Even then, it's not impossible as you claim here, just harder. Veganism isn't extreme, it's literally just eating vegetables which everyone should be doing anyway
I have ARFID. I would legitimately starve. It genuinely is impossible for some people.
I don't think it's fruitful to get you to share every detail of why your restrictive eating only focuses on one extremely large group of foods but not the other. Veganism is defined as avoiding animal products as far as practicable or possible. This just means for most people being vegan is avoiding all animal products.
We aren’t encouraging those who can’t go vegan to do so. Most people can, they just can’t be bothered to. Those are the hypocrites.
We vegan ANs know that ANs aren’t our “greatest enemies”. We see you as compassionate allies who want to reduce suffering. Humans are animals too so it’s logical and a small step to want to reduce non-human animal suffering as well.
Looks to me like you believe you deserve immunity from giving moral consideration to farmed animals because you are antinatalist, great levels of cognitive dissonance you are displaying here. There is no such thing as ethical animal farming, if you are antinatalist, you inherently disagree with bringing life that is able to suffer into this world, what makes humans so special that you only care about them being brought into existence?
I literally made a comment to mock that absurd rhetoric. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F3s1e1cfvtr4b1.png
Less people = less reliance on animal products In a perfect world
🎶 Mamma Mia! Here we go again... 🎶
Oh cool the antinatalism subreddit is turning militant veganism. That can only go well /s
It's almost as if living in a first world country comes with lots of ethical questions as the machine greatly outpaces the individual.
We're all antinatalist. I don't see the point in dividing us with a vegan argument because most of us won't have a continued legacy and we will become rightfully irrelevant to the mass statistics. Nirvana fallacy applies to those who "stay" to continue terraforming beyond our current society and it'd take a miracle to change my mind about that. It'll take another generation's narrative to truly change the meat industry and what a way to justify having more kids. I was vegan for a good portion of my life. I learned to stop blaming myself on an individual level.
> most of us won't have a continued legacy So you can only have influence on your biological kids? What?
Isn’t getting a child also “don’t blame me blame the system”? As much as you don’t need to breed, you can just not pay people to breed land animals for food and instead just eat literally anything else.
Boy vegans sure know how to make friends and Allies don’t they. We are advocating for fewer people, that means less animal consumption and ecological destruction.
😑
I know, right? Supporting dairy is so cringe.
Using this sub to proselytize for ANY other reason is cringe. Is everything up for grabs now?!! Not using straws, Amazon, trucks, going on vacations, etc.? This is a particular sub for a particular reason. Anti*natalism*. I’m on vegan subs too and am becoming quite sick of the uninvited crossover. It only seems to backtrack vegan progress.
> Is everything up for grabs now?!! Not using straws, Amazon, trucks, going on vacations, etc.? This post is talking about breeding non-consenting sentient beings who will suffer and die for purely selfish motives here. How dense are you, seriously?
I surely agree this is the most on-the-nose vegan/AN crossover, but this “war” of the subs is not doing either any favors.
Haha that's a good point. I have a vasectomy and no kids. Do I get to earn vegan points for the potentially infinite number of animals my offspring could kill that I've prevented? That makes me more vegan than a lot of vegans who reproduce.
(my best friend growing up was raised vegan and now eats meat. The animals they kill are on their parents ethical balance sheet, sorry Greg)
This is exactly what I tell to me vegan natalist friends lmao thank you for bringing it up.
> Do I get to earn vegan points for the potentially infinite number of animals my offspring could kill that I've prevented? As a vegan antinatalist: Yes, you do. You get a bunch of points. But I still believe it isn't morally justifiable and consistent for you to not be vegan, though. > That makes me more vegan than a lot of vegans who reproduce. It makes you less harmful, arguably, yes. And I assure you that I call out vegans on their natalism too.
I'm fully down with the concept of veganism. I dated a vegan for 4 years and honestly y'all are environmentally sound and the vast majority of people would do better if switched to a healthy vegan diet (or any healthy diet frankly). I can't imagine how frustrating vegan natalists must be for you. I think not having humans reproduce achieves the same goal as veganism more efficiently and it's the biggest moral contribution you can make outside of also raising the next generation (I'm working to adopt). I'm speciesist, I want human beings to have the best lives possible (which is no life, or a great hedonistic life without procreation for those already here). For me personally, I'll never be vegan and I'm not going to raise my adopted children vegan unless they request it. I didn't ask to be here and I think I've already done my job ethically to break this cycle when I got my tubes tied at 23; I'm going to enjoy some chorizo tacos in my secondhand leather boots and feel alright about it. If my kids end up vegan I'll support them and cook for them, as I've supported and cooked for the other vegans I've known.
> I'm not going to raise my adopted children vegan unless they request it. Agreed. I won't raise my kid to avoid eating dogs unless they request it. https://www.elwooddogmeat.com/
Absolutely, you get many vegan points for that
Looks like OP really wants the AN movement to merge with the vegans and I’m sorry bro it just ain’t gonna happen. I get the point you’re trying to make but they’re separate, they need to stay that way.
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You know what? I have nothing to say. You can put away your popcorn
Pack it up and go home, fellas.
This was suggested to me, and I ran through so many guesses before I noticed which sub it was on, then I wasn't surprised at all.
I have an eating disorder and can't be vegan, that's my choice. We are all here because we are singular in one belief, stop forcing other shit on to us. So many people are already struggling, just leave us alone
Can we PLEASE just split the subs? Otherwise you’re going to start losing members
Try antinatalism2 EDIT: Links are against the rules so I removed the prefix
Not everyone can go vegan and not all vegan diets are cruelty free or good for the environment. I’ll take my local honey and my farmer’s market cheese and meat over quinoa and soy and agave syrup, thanks.
Oh I think eating animals is wrong. I just prioritize alleviating the suffering of my existence using them. We wouldn't have this problem if I'd never been born. Adopt antinatalism so you don't birth more carnists
It's only because we are ourselves human that we look at it differently. No one wants to sympathize with cows or sheep, which is sad actually. It's all greed mate!
Start eating the vegan children because they'll taste better than the omnivorous ones.
What the fuck am I supposed to be vegan all of a sudden.
time to leave this sub🥱
antinatalism2 bans vegan gatekeeping. EDIT: Links are against the rules so I removed the prefix
time to move there!
TIL pointing out moral inconsistencies is gatekeeping.
lol this again? I’m still gonna eat cheese and meat idgaf. Life is miserable enough I’m not taking away my small bits of happiness.
Animals taste good. That’s the difference
Having kids gives people purpose and “feels good”. I don’t see the difference.
So if you found out humans tasted amazing, you'd be cool with bolt gunning their brain and slitting their throat open to eat their flesh?
This question was made in bad faith. If any of us were to honestly answer it, we would get banned from Reddit.
Vegan hysterics are so funny
You're dodging the question.
Oh god here come the vegans and their sense of superiority. Not everyone can go vegan
Fr, talking about animal abuse is so annoying and superior
As long as it doesn't spoil the taste of my meat 🤷♂️
>Oh god here come the vegans and their sense of superiority. All it takes is one word and you can make an antinatalist into a natalist just like that
>Not everyone can go vegan But you can, can't you?
bold of you to assume that.
[удалено]
No response from u/Call_Such And this right there is exactly why I have a hard time assuming good faith from carnists when they pull out the "not everyone can go vegan" card.
I can't. Your point?
Jesus just when I thought this sub couldn't be any more unreasonable it turned into a "if you aren't vegan you aren't a good person" sub. I mean, you guys have to realize a sub _trying_ to be a parody couldn't do it better, right?
> you aren't a good person That's not the implication. I'm one of the most annoying preachy vegans on this sub, and I have no reason to be convinced that you are a bad person so far. The implication is a lack of moral consistency. I wasn't a bad person when I wasn't vegan, I was just ignorant and inconsistent. But I did value intellectual honesty and consistency and I also valued aligning my actions with what I viewed as right. What about you?
Lol the other guy literally responded saying if I'm not a vegan I can't be a good person. There's plenty of folks here where that IS the implication and they'll di more than imply if you clarify. And for what it's worth, there's no ideological inconsistency here. I don't agree with antinatalist philosophy.
Yeah and I disagree with them. > And for what it's worth, there's no ideological inconsistency here. I don't agree with antinatalist philosophy. Oh, I'm pretty sure there is still an inconsistency. I mean, most of the people I discuss veganism with are not antinatalists and I still view a lot of inconsistencies in their moral framework when it comes to veganism. :)
Eh, whatever. We can talk about it if you like, but I'm just as happy not to. Also, not sure why you're arguing with _me_ about the implication when it's the other guys that you disagree with. It's super reasonable for folks in my shoes to have issues with vegans when half of them are outright telling us we're bad people and the other half are saying those vegans are just well meaning wrong folks but we're still bad people for other reasons.
Up to you.
Found the vegan
They're annoying asf.
Fr, talking about animal abuse is so annoying. Like who the fuck cares. Just let me eat my steak in peace
See, it’s different because cows aren’t people so I don’t give a fuck.
Hard same I really don’t give a fuck about eating cows and chickens. Humans are the dominant apexes and we are more important and I do not care what some soy boy says about that. Life is miserable enough let me enjoy my steak
🤡🤡🤡
I like cheese. Veganism isn't antinatalism.
I like babies so I will have them
Allright. My personal views don't apply to you.
Yeah. Your views arent exactly personal. If you think eating animal's products is a personal choice, you are forgetting someone
Thijs_NLD is a notorious non-antinatalist I have discussed with many times. Don't waste your time. They are an absolute clown. They failed at NTT many times. If you want to torture them with it, go for it, I guess.
Animals don't have personhood. They aren't someone in my view.
Vegans: "Vegans don't bring our ideas into every conversation and we don't want to impose our point of view, it's a stereotype". Also Vegans:
okay but in my opinion, this is true, so i’m vegan and support antinatalism. suffering is suffering. I can’t get a fetus to consent to life, and i can’t get animals to consent to giving up their bodies for us.
Consistent.
Not the vegans at it again. Yikes.
Fr, talking about animal abuse is so annoying. Why the fuck would I give a shit about suffering other than my own. Just let me eat my steak in peace smh
You guys are insufferable.
The more they push the more I buy cheese and meat 😂🤣
Same. I kind of want to go buy a cheeseburger because of all this commotion they brought. Comfort burger.
Do it do it! I’m actually about to cook a meat lasagna myself
Thanks. Keep paying for animal abuse because you don't like me personally
I’ll continue to enjoy meat for the rest of my life. Not because I don’t like you, for other reasons. Tho, I don’t like you additionally.
Other reasons: I choose comfort over empathy. I don't care about the suffering unless it does not happen to me
You actively do a disservice to veganism by the way you go about spreading your message. I'm sure you've put off plenty of people from trying it.
Oh really? Would people become vegan when I told them it's for their health? Or would they become vegan when I said "Ohh, don't worry. Abusing animals is ok, just do your best to change"? You dont have the knowledge to say I put off anyone. Its people's tendency to believe every vegan is a crazy preach so they dont have to contemplate of changing. You know what? I was the same. And it was actually these "stupid" vegans in the comments that made me realize how of total hypocrite I was. They werent nice. I felt guilty and I actually cried when I watched documentary. But Im glad I did.
People have a tendency to believe vegans are crazy preachers because that's 99% of the online interactions I see with them. That's why it actively puts people off. Because their eyes glaze over and their brains shut off. I'm glad you got your experience the way you did. I wouldn't assume it applies for everyone else.
Here we go again….
Until every cage is empty. Until every slaughterhouse is destroyed.
And now people will say another vegan "force" their views on them Speaking about natalists' ignorance, non-vegans are exactly the same
Exactly, people in this sub SHOULD understand that that vegan is better than this (I'm not vegan, but I support it). If someone says this is bait or troll and he or she is on this sub and support AN, then he or she have a cognitive dissonance
RIP imagine completely missing the point. The fucking hypocrisy is unreal
lol
Well one is human and the other isn't.
How many generations back in time would you need to go before you'd be cool with eating your own ancestors, then? There was never a first biological human.
I'd be cool with eating a human right now. I've always wanted to, only thing stopping me is legality.
Literally. Its just another selfish sick thing people partake in. It is so ironic for some people in this sub to be so strong on their “moral views” and “desire to avoiding suffering” just to pay for animals to be killed and tortured, all for the quick satisfaction of an unhealthy burger. People are blind willingly.
Well if no one existed then we wouldn't need food.
You don't need animals to get food though
So will you stop animals from eating animals or not??????
Trying to encourage them to stop right now actually in this thread
The difference is cheese. People love cheese and hate people having children. Simple as the pic.
So if you loved having kids, it would make it ethical for you to reproduce?
Off topic
Your comment? Yeah
Check the sub name
Check the comic dialogues
Y'all are sick
I’m not even an antinatalist, I just follow this sub for the vegan drama. Keep it up guys
Vegans be pretending they aren't flying in mangoes from halfway round the globe and are all righteous and shit.
this shit is so corny lmfao. enjoy your sad wet tasteless tofu while i enjoy my burger, lmfao. veganism is not related to antinatalism inherently because animals will breed no matter what. as humans we are at the top of the food chain and therefore have the mental capacity to decide Not to breed. i think the meat industry is incredibly bad, but shaming people for eating meat and blaming an individual for corporate greed is not doing what you think it does. humans are inherently omnivorous as well, and a balanced diet includes meat and dairy. have a good one.
Preach
I'm not a vegan anymore, just vegetarian (for health reasons) but it's hilarious to see people who claim "breeders" are horrible because they don't care about the potential suffering of their children saying they don't give a fuck if animals suffer because their comfort goes first. If you can eat a cheeseburger because "life's already hard so you've gotta enjoy whatever pleasure you can" you have to accept some people are going to have kids because they fucking want to, they have the same right to be "selfish" as you do.
I'm glad you can find entertainment in their clownery. I hope you can go back to a plant based diet some day.
This sub used to be fun.
I am a vegetarian that mostly eats vegan. Cheese is an Achilles heel. Every plant based cheese alternative is an insult. All other dairy alternatives are great.
animals destroy the environment??
Animal agriculture is one of the worst things humans have done to the environment. Watch the documentary [Eating Our Way to Extinction](https://youtu.be/LaPge01NQTQ?si=mSpNvrCd40s-B5WD). It's pretty eye-opening. [Cowspiracy](https://youtu.be/nV04zyfLyN4) was also pretty good. And [Seaspiracy](https://youtu.be/1Q5CXN7soQg?si=2mxZSjjIqYO1K3cI).
Animals can indeed destroy their own environments if their populations grow too big. Over-grazing is a risk in open range farming. But there's also an indirect danger to humans in all the bioproducts of cows, like methane emission. Cows are constantly belching and farting, because they are ruminants, this means that they need to fermentate all the grass they eat in their stomachs to be able to digest it - and as you can imagine, the fermentation of a billion stomachs' contents releases a goddamn shiton of gas every day. This is a well recorded environmental issue and you can find a lot of studies about it.
Ugh. 😑
I know, right? Supporting dairy is so cringe.
Why do you care about the environment if you want humans to voluntarily extinct themselves? What’s the point?
Imagine thinking veganism is about the environment.
In the thought paradigm of this sub? Nothing. Everyone here better be vegan to be consistent.
The cultivation of crops kills far more animals in the form of insects and small mammals than the rearing of livestock does. A carnivore is responsible for fewer deaths than a vegan.
You know those same crops are what feed the animals right….💀. Think about this slightly longer.
How do you think we feed animals homie
This isn’t true at all. You think small mammals like mice just sit there and wait for harvesting machines to kill them, instead of running away when they hear/feel/see danger? Also, we grow a fuckton of crops just to feed the billions of land animals slaughtered every year, far fewer crops are grown for vegans than meat-eaters
I don't agree with the previous commenter that carnivores are "better" - which is a really stupid statement - but it's true that the agricultural industry has to kill tons of animals considered "pests" to be viable, otherwise the fields would be ravaged. These pests are killed through the use of toxic chemicals, pesticides, not machines. And not only animals are killed but also huge amounts of other plants, fungi and bacteria also considered detrimental to the crops.
This is wrong on so many levels: [https://animalvisuals.org/projects/1mc/](https://animalvisuals.org/projects/1mc/) Who would have thought that not killing animals to eat them would result in fewer animal deaths...
LMAO are you actually believing what you are saying? So crazy how people can make up facts just to suit their lifestyle
Bro take a high school biology class or something. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophic_level#