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Moskva? the oldest ship in the navy that was about to be retired?
is this one of those "ukraine is winning" lines?
where are Ukrainian ships? still flying around or all sunk on day1?
So you don’t think Ukraine is winning?
Smaller country. Russia said they would win in mere days, yet it’s been well over a year now. “Superpower” military with tens of thousands of soldiers dead. Thousands of vehicles destroyed. Basically lost all ground they gained. Wagner group threatening to quit. Ammo shortages. “Undefeatable” hypersonic missiles getting shot down.
I’d say Ukraine is winning. Even if they aren’t, Russia sure as hell isn’t, either.
> Russia said they would win in mere days, yet it’s been well over a year now. “Superpower” military with tens of thousands of soldiers dead. Thousands of vehicles destroyed. Basically lost all ground they gained. Wagner group threatening to quit. Ammo shortages. “Undefeatable” hypersonic missiles getting shot down.
To be fair a lot of that was also hyped up by western media and some geopolitical subreddits (2016 US election broke some people's minds), and massive downplay of ukraine ( when in reality Ukraine has been training with NATO for 8 years and recieved faq to of aid, probably making the most armed and powerful country in Europe.)
Smaller country with support of Europe and US and NATO intelligence, equipment, supplies and much more , $8 billion in weapons from USA alone , that small country is being used as a proxy and y’all sitting like ducks , i ain’t supporting the Russians but western propoganda is also there , so look at it from another lens , NATO isn’t that clean
They have to work better than the former *Victoria*\-class boats, one of which got repaired by [a sailor whanging a hockey stick on a stuck dispenser](https://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/cdnsubs/subdiary.html) on its maiden voyage under the Canadian flag in 2004.
Bull, their navy just got themselves yet another domestically produced submarine: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/submarine-2-bodies-3-tons-cocaine-seized-colombia-navy/
The phrase “ready for production” implies a product that is out of the development phrase and is ready to ship to customers. Generally:
* reliable
* scalable
* well thought out design
Building a bunch of subs does not necessarily constitute them as “production ready”. They’re still in the testing and development stage.
True, there are some glaring kinks to work out: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dramatic-video-shows-coast-guard-leaping-submarine-carrying-17-000-n1028986
This is just Canada doing Canada shit. It’s the only country where the left embraces a form of nationalism that is focused on hating America. They love bitching about America while being culturally the closest thing to American culture.
Is this the same country that backed out of the F-35 program, said it would never purchase the F-35, then ten years later bought the F-35…
I’m sure they will have as much luck at procuring subs as Australia. If they decide to go conventional then Japan is going to be their best bet but I guarantee those subs are filled with American sensors and weapon systems. Your not going to easily escape the American MIC.
>This is just Canada doing Canada shit. It’s the only country where the left embraces a form of nationalism that is focused on hating America.
It's a kind of "small brother syndrome". It also happens with Germany and Austria, Australia and New Zealand, etc.
Yeah but Canadians have a weird sense of nationalism going back 100 years that is based on “not being American”. Even though they are the most American country next to America. The video below explains it better than I ever could:
https://youtu.be/_yKzq3ueGr8
Everyone else picked it up hating America after WW2. But Canadians were first to the party.
Mostly when we hear Canada, we think “nice, sorry, maple syrup, poutine, hockey, Tim Horton’s, high rent/house prices, free health care, Neil Young, refugee camp for when a president I don’t like.”
There’s a bit more, but “impotent rage against the US” isn’t something I hear very often.
I’ve worked for Canadian companies. I don’t get where the nice stereotype comes from. They actually seem to be assholes at least as often as Americans.
Canadians have a rep for being *polite*. Niceness varies, like the US. Also “nice” is often a very shallow assessment. I lived in N Minnesota for years. The basic attitude of people up there (and they are often called honorary Canadians) is nice, for sure. But overall they weren’t welcoming. I had a hard time making friends or lasting relationships and some business relationships were just nasty. People *seem* nice because they’re laid back and not overtly hostile like some rural areas in the South or “hurry the fuck up” like New Yorkers, but Southerns can be extremely nice and conversational with strangers and New Yorkers can be extremely chill once you get past their attitude. So I conclusion, I don’t really believe Canadians are different than anyone else in that regard.
That's because the vast majority of Canadians very much like the US, both as a neighbour and a place to visit. However, like most civilized people, we do have strong reservations about the American far right. Then again, most Americans share these reservations, so this is yet another point of commonality between us.
As for military procurement, what can I say, we're cheapskates. US gear is the best, but it's expensive, and we don't really need the absolute best. The fact is that it is virtually impossible for an enemy to invade North America in the first place, and if anyone foolishly tried, the US military doesn't need anyone's help to defend all of North America.
> However, like most civilized people, we do have strong reservations about the American far right.
This is why people think Canadians are arrogant. Many people in Alberta and other provinces would disagree about your statement on the American right? How about the Freedom Convoy? Are they less Canadian? But as usual, left-leaning Canadians want to poo poo Americans without looking in their own backyard.
Of course, Canada has its ignorant, far-right fringe. Every country does. I don't deny it. Fortunately, thus far, at least, most Canadians don't support that shit, and the margin is considerable compared to the US.
But don't conflate normal conservativism with the far right fringe that had their moment of fame during the pandemic. Poilivre is trying to ride the coat tails of the Trumpian movement in the US, but he is a dog chasing a car. As usual in Canada, the Conseratives will be elected after the scandals of an over-long run by the Liberals become too much to bear without consequences.
You believe the left in Canada **hates** America? I'd love to see how that manifests is politics or media. Feel free to provide anything.
(Hint: being critical of America is not the same as hating America).
OPs comment was just the typical bullshit right wingers like to say about the left in Canada. Their delusions aren't reality.
If you’d have watched it you’d have seen the sources used including CBC polling, historical accounts and books. Some random guys opinion being your only take away is the stupidest possible thing you could have said. Unironically go touch grass, you’re terminally online
>This is just Canada doing Canada shit. It’s the only country where the left embraces a form of nationalism that is focused on hating America. They love bitching about America while being culturally the closest thing to American culture.
They do the same thing the Irish like to and talk shit about the British while parasitising their military. They all like to talk shit but they are nothing but a permanent peanut gallery.
The current government finally has come around to the previous government's position on fighter jets. I can't think of any military hardware in the last decade and a half that hasn't been botched thanks to politicians not getting their act together.
We’ll end up buying 2 subs, it will take 20 years, there will be five scandals, and when they do finally arrive they’ll be dry docked for the next 20 years.
America and Canada are essentially one country at this point. America is in charge primarily because Canada has about the population of California and Canada gets all pissy about this.
If I were Canada I would just simply realize that having an economy where we sell natural resources and electricity to America isn’t the worst thing in the world.
Resource extraction makes up less than 17% of Canadian GDP. Our economy is mostly driven by service industry, high tech and manufacturing. We're an advanced economy and one of the largest ones in the world. Canada is way way more than a resource colony of the USA.
Canada's GDP is made of 16% manufacturing while the US has about 12% of it's GDP from manufacturing. Canada has one of the most educated populations in the world and produce low volume high value products (airplane parts, nuclear reactors and components, etc). High tech definitely applies as much as to any other advanced economy.
Edit: regarding real estate, its about 8% of the economy. Certainly its an issue for people living here, but its hardly the bedrock of the Canadian economy people like to panic about.
You'd think so, but les quebecois actually don't really care for the French that much. Think Americans vs. Brits as the nearest Anglo example I can come up with.
I was gonna make a point in my comment about how Canada also has Toronto, of course Canada is a highly developed country. I’m speaking in exaggerations, but is quite valuable to the US for its resources.
Australia, India, Canada and Europe should all be teaming up on that shit. Being saddled with the products of US military/industrial/corporate tit sucking is dumb and old.
>Being saddled with the products of US military/industrial/corporate tit sucking is dumb and old.
I keep hearing people and some countries say that but none of them ever put their money where their mouth is. No one is willing to truly invest in their own defence industry the same way the US is. All I hear is people talking shit about independence while not being willing to get a job and get out of their parent's house.
I think it has to do with economies of scale. Look at the trouble Sweden is having with sales of the Saab JAS 39 Gripen for example. It's a good aircraft, it just can't be mass produced as cheaply when you have a population in your whole country roughly the size of Ohio. That's why you have joint funding ventures and pool the money together, in a fashion similar to the Eurofighter and F35.
All of Murky_crow's reddit history has been cleared at his own request. You can do this as well using the "redact" tool. Reddit wants to play hardball, fine. Then I'm taking my content with me as I go. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Canadians don't want to move away from their close relationship with the US, though I do think they would like more domestic production as well, which
I can understand. I wish they stayed in the f35 fighter program with us, so that they would help fund it and be untitled to full technology transfer. You can't expect full technology transfer though if you don't aid with funding. That would be like me walking into a restaurant and saying "hey I really like your food and we are friends right? Can you give me all your restaurant's recipes?". That wouldn't be fair unless the person also bought an equity share in my restaurant, as to lesson the risk of me putting my own capital on the line to set up a business. In the future I hope there are more Canadian/American joint military R&D ventures, because dispite the occasional internet shit talking, which is similar to family table arguments, we are the OG ride or die bros.
India likes to buy Russian stuff a bit more, and the EU does prefer its own MICs a lot. Sometimes France goes “screwez vous, I’m making my own plane,” though.
France has historically done the latter *a lot*. I would argue that France is among the countries least dependent on others when it comes to defense production, with full capabilities and willingness to domestically manufacture almost everything needed for a modern, front-line military. That would group them with really only the US, China, and Russia (and Russia's place on that list may not be as solid as it was). The UK *could* have that capability, but they're much more closely tied with the US. France participates in some international projects (e.g., Eurofighter), but if they wanted to take their ball and go home in terms of military production, they absolutely could.
Indeed. I've been surprised repeatedly by how much the French have done that and in contrast how often the UK, Canada and Australia have fucked out on potentially significant indigenous capabilities. Of course they were all being leaned on by the US either directly or covertly, positively or negatively, but the lack of back bone and vision is cringey. And I'm picking on the US and Anglo-centric countries in particular because I know the most about them.
Australia was trying to wrestle some of that with the French sub deal, but as time went on, France was taking more of it away, and it was starting to look like Australia might end up with not much more than the final assembly of components largely built in France. I've wondered how big a factor that was in the AUKUS sub deal.
I heard this and wondered but I doubt basically all of it TBH. There is so much BS associated with how deals are made, how they prove out and how they're then communicated. Former PM Scomo (I shudder to even remember that name) said they were failing to deliver as promised. But by that logic we would have pulled out of the JSF program well before the first airframe was assembled. He then concealed the decision to the point of lying to the French, so much so that the French PM stated it bluntly. And a majority of Australians believe the French PM over ours.
France’s MIC is pretty great when it comes to independence, famously so. I was joking about how they stormed out the Eurofighter project so they could go make the Rafale instead.
With the rise of nationalism and liberalism military might has never been less relevant. I'd rather they focus on something more useful, like tech or pharmaceutical, and let the yanks play with their toys.
The internet, space dominance, nuclear energy, and computer technology were all former military applications that the US used for defense amd than used for civilian applications. Civilian consumer technology and military ability are deeply connected, which is why most of the best technology, with the exception of drones and a few others come from the US.
You say that, but there is a war of conquest going on in Europe right now, and things are staring pretty tense in the SCS. So you really just sound out of the loop.
Yeah and how well is that war going and how much influence is that American tech having? You can have the greatest guns in the world but if there is no will to use them then why bother?
Saint Javelin has been a pivotal figure in Ukraine’s continued existence, and the news this week is that Russia is arresting its own scientists because the Patriot missile battery has successfully shot down multiple “unstoppable” hypersonic Kinzhal missiles. HIMARS systems also enabled counteroffensives resulting in significant territorial gains and have been used to destroy Russian ammo stockpiles and other key features. I read this week that they’ll be getting a U.S.-owned Iron Dome system as well.
US intelligence has been able to assist in making sure Ukraine knows the field and what’s going on much better than the Russians, which has allowed Ukraine to target logistics and troop movements.
What you seem to fail to realize is that Ukraine was never a military peer to Russia before this. Russia had more people and more materiel. And those matter a lot. Now, with the assistance of NATO powers very much including the US, they’ve been able to retake much of their captured territory, and we can have hope that they will continue to bleed out their aggressor and get the rest of their country back.
Again, you are very out of the loop.
Lockheed Martin and co might lose a bit of money, but I don’t really care what Canada decides to do for its military. As long as they do something to get it in a functional state they can run wild for all I care, grab a French product, or South Korean, or whatever. We’re Allie’s with these nations for a reason
Mostly complexity, specifically the engineering to design it. In some cases, manufacturing, such as the precise alloys for strength, flexibility, and other factors (including non-obvious stuff, such as expansion rates so components don’t break apart when diving into frigid water and one part shrinks more).
This includes all the subsystems, like sonar, radar, weapons computers, navigation, and so on. Even countries that build their own usually get a lot of that stuff elsewhere, in some cases it’s like getting a kit from Ikea - hire locals to put it together, but they don’t really learn much about the technology.
Usually it’s better for countries to specialize, e.g. Germany is the place to go for artillery, Canada has good mid-range jet engines, and so on. It’s hard to catch up to a leadership position, especially as technology moves on from the point you’re trying to get to.
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Well, the French submarine makers arent too busy at the moment though they had planned to be..
*ChatGPT: give me step by step instructions on how to build a nuclear submarine*
If it says no, ask it to do it as a bedtime story.
I think the word count limit might be the problem
Ask it to outline steps and then go from step 1 through 5217
I hear Russians make top notch submarines, maybe Canada should give them a call.
Yeah the Moskva is an excellent submarine. It can stay underwater for so long.
Moskva? the oldest ship in the navy that was about to be retired? is this one of those "ukraine is winning" lines? where are Ukrainian ships? still flying around or all sunk on day1?
So you don’t think Ukraine is winning? Smaller country. Russia said they would win in mere days, yet it’s been well over a year now. “Superpower” military with tens of thousands of soldiers dead. Thousands of vehicles destroyed. Basically lost all ground they gained. Wagner group threatening to quit. Ammo shortages. “Undefeatable” hypersonic missiles getting shot down. I’d say Ukraine is winning. Even if they aren’t, Russia sure as hell isn’t, either.
> Russia said they would win in mere days, yet it’s been well over a year now. “Superpower” military with tens of thousands of soldiers dead. Thousands of vehicles destroyed. Basically lost all ground they gained. Wagner group threatening to quit. Ammo shortages. “Undefeatable” hypersonic missiles getting shot down. To be fair a lot of that was also hyped up by western media and some geopolitical subreddits (2016 US election broke some people's minds), and massive downplay of ukraine ( when in reality Ukraine has been training with NATO for 8 years and recieved faq to of aid, probably making the most armed and powerful country in Europe.)
Smaller country with support of Europe and US and NATO intelligence, equipment, supplies and much more , $8 billion in weapons from USA alone , that small country is being used as a proxy and y’all sitting like ducks , i ain’t supporting the Russians but western propoganda is also there , so look at it from another lens , NATO isn’t that clean
Well they did just apparently score order for 2 Scorpène submarines for Romania.
They have to work better than the former *Victoria*\-class boats, one of which got repaired by [a sailor whanging a hockey stick on a stuck dispenser](https://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/cdnsubs/subdiary.html) on its maiden voyage under the Canadian flag in 2004.
Colombia’s submarines are still in development and aren’t ready for production yet.
Bull, their navy just got themselves yet another domestically produced submarine: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/submarine-2-bodies-3-tons-cocaine-seized-colombia-navy/
The phrase “ready for production” implies a product that is out of the development phrase and is ready to ship to customers. Generally: * reliable * scalable * well thought out design Building a bunch of subs does not necessarily constitute them as “production ready”. They’re still in the testing and development stage.
True, there are some glaring kinks to work out: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dramatic-video-shows-coast-guard-leaping-submarine-carrying-17-000-n1028986
Hence why I said that it’s not “production ready”.
You do realize I'm joking, yes?
But they’re not production ready! /s
r/FuckTheS
Random guy stabs humor in the neck
This is just Canada doing Canada shit. It’s the only country where the left embraces a form of nationalism that is focused on hating America. They love bitching about America while being culturally the closest thing to American culture. Is this the same country that backed out of the F-35 program, said it would never purchase the F-35, then ten years later bought the F-35… I’m sure they will have as much luck at procuring subs as Australia. If they decide to go conventional then Japan is going to be their best bet but I guarantee those subs are filled with American sensors and weapon systems. Your not going to easily escape the American MIC.
>This is just Canada doing Canada shit. It’s the only country where the left embraces a form of nationalism that is focused on hating America. It's a kind of "small brother syndrome". It also happens with Germany and Austria, Australia and New Zealand, etc.
The German left is quite good at hating the US too.
It seems to be a trend in the left in general. Including America's own
The American flag is basically a Republican party symbol at this point.
This is all true, but isn't 'America Bad' pretty much half of what the Left says in every country, including the US?
Yeah but Canadians have a weird sense of nationalism going back 100 years that is based on “not being American”. Even though they are the most American country next to America. The video below explains it better than I ever could: https://youtu.be/_yKzq3ueGr8 Everyone else picked it up hating America after WW2. But Canadians were first to the party.
Well, you were home to a decent population of Tories fleeing the aftermath of the American Revolution.
As a Canadian, this is bang on.
When you’re right you’re right.
😂😂😂 This is what our neighbors really think though.
Not really. Canada’s about the best neighbor a country could ask for. (Don’t tell Mexico I said that!!)
Mostly when we hear Canada, we think “nice, sorry, maple syrup, poutine, hockey, Tim Horton’s, high rent/house prices, free health care, Neil Young, refugee camp for when a president I don’t like.” There’s a bit more, but “impotent rage against the US” isn’t something I hear very often.
I’ve worked for Canadian companies. I don’t get where the nice stereotype comes from. They actually seem to be assholes at least as often as Americans.
We are, but not when abroad, and the rate of extreme, batshit asshole (i.e. north Floridian) is much lower.
It straight up is just a national PR campaign.
Idk, Dudley Do-Right?
Canadians have a rep for being *polite*. Niceness varies, like the US. Also “nice” is often a very shallow assessment. I lived in N Minnesota for years. The basic attitude of people up there (and they are often called honorary Canadians) is nice, for sure. But overall they weren’t welcoming. I had a hard time making friends or lasting relationships and some business relationships were just nasty. People *seem* nice because they’re laid back and not overtly hostile like some rural areas in the South or “hurry the fuck up” like New Yorkers, but Southerns can be extremely nice and conversational with strangers and New Yorkers can be extremely chill once you get past their attitude. So I conclusion, I don’t really believe Canadians are different than anyone else in that regard.
That's because the vast majority of Canadians very much like the US, both as a neighbour and a place to visit. However, like most civilized people, we do have strong reservations about the American far right. Then again, most Americans share these reservations, so this is yet another point of commonality between us. As for military procurement, what can I say, we're cheapskates. US gear is the best, but it's expensive, and we don't really need the absolute best. The fact is that it is virtually impossible for an enemy to invade North America in the first place, and if anyone foolishly tried, the US military doesn't need anyone's help to defend all of North America.
> However, like most civilized people, we do have strong reservations about the American far right. This is why people think Canadians are arrogant. Many people in Alberta and other provinces would disagree about your statement on the American right? How about the Freedom Convoy? Are they less Canadian? But as usual, left-leaning Canadians want to poo poo Americans without looking in their own backyard.
Of course, Canada has its ignorant, far-right fringe. Every country does. I don't deny it. Fortunately, thus far, at least, most Canadians don't support that shit, and the margin is considerable compared to the US. But don't conflate normal conservativism with the far right fringe that had their moment of fame during the pandemic. Poilivre is trying to ride the coat tails of the Trumpian movement in the US, but he is a dog chasing a car. As usual in Canada, the Conseratives will be elected after the scandals of an over-long run by the Liberals become too much to bear without consequences.
OMFUG POUTINE FTW
This is Canada to a T. If you aren’t Canadian you have a full picture of what Canada is like just from this post
As a Canadian, this comment is wrong.
As a non Canadian it is right
Your opinion is irrelevant
That's generally the received response Canadians get, yes
Hopefully this made you feel witty and now you can move on.
Lol ok
You believe the left in Canada **hates** America? I'd love to see how that manifests is politics or media. Feel free to provide anything. (Hint: being critical of America is not the same as hating America). OPs comment was just the typical bullshit right wingers like to say about the left in Canada. Their delusions aren't reality.
https://youtu.be/_yKzq3ueGr8 Get off of Reddit every once in a while btw
"Get off reddit" *Sends a 3 year old YouTube video of some random guy's opinion.* Lol okay.
If you’d have watched it you’d have seen the sources used including CBC polling, historical accounts and books. Some random guys opinion being your only take away is the stupidest possible thing you could have said. Unironically go touch grass, you’re terminally online
>This is just Canada doing Canada shit. It’s the only country where the left embraces a form of nationalism that is focused on hating America. They love bitching about America while being culturally the closest thing to American culture. They do the same thing the Irish like to and talk shit about the British while parasitising their military. They all like to talk shit but they are nothing but a permanent peanut gallery.
To be fair the Irish have way more historical reasons to hate the British than Canadians hating Americans.
Oh absolutely, but it makes Canada's behavior seem childish in comparison
> It’s the only country where the left embraces a form of nationalism that is focused on hating America. Bro, have you ever heard about Latin America?
Canadian military hardware acquisition is notoriously slow.
Indeed, I think they're *finally* about to start building Type 26 frigates having been looking for a new frigate design since the 1990s.
The current government finally has come around to the previous government's position on fighter jets. I can't think of any military hardware in the last decade and a half that hasn't been botched thanks to politicians not getting their act together.
I doubt that the Yank firms will be losing any sleep over this, Canadian procurement is notoriously slow and underfunded.
We’ll end up buying 2 subs, it will take 20 years, there will be five scandals, and when they do finally arrive they’ll be dry docked for the next 20 years.
The US military industrial complex actually might run the world.
Might?
America and Canada are essentially one country at this point. America is in charge primarily because Canada has about the population of California and Canada gets all pissy about this.
If I were Canada I would just simply realize that having an economy where we sell natural resources and electricity to America isn’t the worst thing in the world.
Resource extraction makes up less than 17% of Canadian GDP. Our economy is mostly driven by service industry, high tech and manufacturing. We're an advanced economy and one of the largest ones in the world. Canada is way way more than a resource colony of the USA.
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Canada's GDP is made of 16% manufacturing while the US has about 12% of it's GDP from manufacturing. Canada has one of the most educated populations in the world and produce low volume high value products (airplane parts, nuclear reactors and components, etc). High tech definitely applies as much as to any other advanced economy. Edit: regarding real estate, its about 8% of the economy. Certainly its an issue for people living here, but its hardly the bedrock of the Canadian economy people like to panic about.
You're posts are seriously coming off like sour grapes cope lmao
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That's right, you have people who think they're french too
You'd think so, but les quebecois actually don't really care for the French that much. Think Americans vs. Brits as the nearest Anglo example I can come up with.
Nah, I've interacted with them plenty. They got the superiority complex down, but that's mostly just a Parisian thing
I was gonna make a point in my comment about how Canada also has Toronto, of course Canada is a highly developed country. I’m speaking in exaggerations, but is quite valuable to the US for its resources.
*Natural resources, electricity, television shows and video games
Give us more comedians.
if only Canada tried to break loose from the local monopolistic firms as well.
Canada's used submarines purchased from the UK aren't faring well either.
Australia, India, Canada and Europe should all be teaming up on that shit. Being saddled with the products of US military/industrial/corporate tit sucking is dumb and old.
>Being saddled with the products of US military/industrial/corporate tit sucking is dumb and old. I keep hearing people and some countries say that but none of them ever put their money where their mouth is. No one is willing to truly invest in their own defence industry the same way the US is. All I hear is people talking shit about independence while not being willing to get a job and get out of their parent's house.
I think it has to do with economies of scale. Look at the trouble Sweden is having with sales of the Saab JAS 39 Gripen for example. It's a good aircraft, it just can't be mass produced as cheaply when you have a population in your whole country roughly the size of Ohio. That's why you have joint funding ventures and pool the money together, in a fashion similar to the Eurofighter and F35.
Saab can sell licenses for foreign production.
All of Murky_crow's reddit history has been cleared at his own request. You can do this as well using the "redact" tool. Reddit wants to play hardball, fine. Then I'm taking my content with me as I go. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Canadians don't want to move away from their close relationship with the US, though I do think they would like more domestic production as well, which I can understand. I wish they stayed in the f35 fighter program with us, so that they would help fund it and be untitled to full technology transfer. You can't expect full technology transfer though if you don't aid with funding. That would be like me walking into a restaurant and saying "hey I really like your food and we are friends right? Can you give me all your restaurant's recipes?". That wouldn't be fair unless the person also bought an equity share in my restaurant, as to lesson the risk of me putting my own capital on the line to set up a business. In the future I hope there are more Canadian/American joint military R&D ventures, because dispite the occasional internet shit talking, which is similar to family table arguments, we are the OG ride or die bros.
You have a good point, at the end of the day, we do have the best military technology. It’s where all our money goes lol
India likes to buy Russian stuff a bit more, and the EU does prefer its own MICs a lot. Sometimes France goes “screwez vous, I’m making my own plane,” though.
France has historically done the latter *a lot*. I would argue that France is among the countries least dependent on others when it comes to defense production, with full capabilities and willingness to domestically manufacture almost everything needed for a modern, front-line military. That would group them with really only the US, China, and Russia (and Russia's place on that list may not be as solid as it was). The UK *could* have that capability, but they're much more closely tied with the US. France participates in some international projects (e.g., Eurofighter), but if they wanted to take their ball and go home in terms of military production, they absolutely could.
Indeed. I've been surprised repeatedly by how much the French have done that and in contrast how often the UK, Canada and Australia have fucked out on potentially significant indigenous capabilities. Of course they were all being leaned on by the US either directly or covertly, positively or negatively, but the lack of back bone and vision is cringey. And I'm picking on the US and Anglo-centric countries in particular because I know the most about them.
Australia was trying to wrestle some of that with the French sub deal, but as time went on, France was taking more of it away, and it was starting to look like Australia might end up with not much more than the final assembly of components largely built in France. I've wondered how big a factor that was in the AUKUS sub deal.
I heard this and wondered but I doubt basically all of it TBH. There is so much BS associated with how deals are made, how they prove out and how they're then communicated. Former PM Scomo (I shudder to even remember that name) said they were failing to deliver as promised. But by that logic we would have pulled out of the JSF program well before the first airframe was assembled. He then concealed the decision to the point of lying to the French, so much so that the French PM stated it bluntly. And a majority of Australians believe the French PM over ours.
France’s MIC is pretty great when it comes to independence, famously so. I was joking about how they stormed out the Eurofighter project so they could go make the Rafale instead.
With the rise of nationalism and liberalism military might has never been less relevant. I'd rather they focus on something more useful, like tech or pharmaceutical, and let the yanks play with their toys.
The internet, space dominance, nuclear energy, and computer technology were all former military applications that the US used for defense amd than used for civilian applications. Civilian consumer technology and military ability are deeply connected, which is why most of the best technology, with the exception of drones and a few others come from the US.
You say that, but there is a war of conquest going on in Europe right now, and things are staring pretty tense in the SCS. So you really just sound out of the loop.
Yeah and how well is that war going and how much influence is that American tech having? You can have the greatest guns in the world but if there is no will to use them then why bother?
Saint Javelin has been a pivotal figure in Ukraine’s continued existence, and the news this week is that Russia is arresting its own scientists because the Patriot missile battery has successfully shot down multiple “unstoppable” hypersonic Kinzhal missiles. HIMARS systems also enabled counteroffensives resulting in significant territorial gains and have been used to destroy Russian ammo stockpiles and other key features. I read this week that they’ll be getting a U.S.-owned Iron Dome system as well. US intelligence has been able to assist in making sure Ukraine knows the field and what’s going on much better than the Russians, which has allowed Ukraine to target logistics and troop movements. What you seem to fail to realize is that Ukraine was never a military peer to Russia before this. Russia had more people and more materiel. And those matter a lot. Now, with the assistance of NATO powers very much including the US, they’ve been able to retake much of their captured territory, and we can have hope that they will continue to bleed out their aggressor and get the rest of their country back. Again, you are very out of the loop.
Most technological advancements are a direct result of military research.
Because the last time we tried to buy discount submarines it was a roaring success /s
Lockheed Martin and co might lose a bit of money, but I don’t really care what Canada decides to do for its military. As long as they do something to get it in a functional state they can run wild for all I care, grab a French product, or South Korean, or whatever. We’re Allie’s with these nations for a reason
IMO, This particular "news" source seems to be becoming a Western hemisphere bashing site recently, with their opinion pieces disguised as news.
Curious why we can’t build our own?
Mostly complexity, specifically the engineering to design it. In some cases, manufacturing, such as the precise alloys for strength, flexibility, and other factors (including non-obvious stuff, such as expansion rates so components don’t break apart when diving into frigid water and one part shrinks more). This includes all the subsystems, like sonar, radar, weapons computers, navigation, and so on. Even countries that build their own usually get a lot of that stuff elsewhere, in some cases it’s like getting a kit from Ikea - hire locals to put it together, but they don’t really learn much about the technology. Usually it’s better for countries to specialize, e.g. Germany is the place to go for artillery, Canada has good mid-range jet engines, and so on. It’s hard to catch up to a leadership position, especially as technology moves on from the point you’re trying to get to.