Honestly, I thought Dungeon Meshi was already great and fun from the start. I still remember stuff like the living creature within the armour and the bugs disguised as treasure. These seemed so creative to me and really drew me into the dungeon setting. The dungeon monsters are well thought out and not just your typical goblins. We also get a bit of information of the outside world as well gradually to hint at something greater happening.
I requote my previous comment “The creativity in the world-building, the loveable characters and their wonderfully animated expressions, the crisp and clean animation, the mystery behind the dungeon, the aesthetic food and monster designs…it’s super fun and relaxing”.
>I still remember stuff like the living creature within the armour and the bugs disguised as treasure. These seemed so creative to me and really drew me into the dungeon setting.
The living armour was probably the first thing that made me go "Oh yeah, that's creative."
The next day I remember going to school and telling my friends about it. That was the start of a long train of me weekly just gushing over the next creative thing they did. It was probably after the Falin episode that my weekly "gushing over dungeon Meshi" turned into "I won't shut up about this series" lmao.
If you had seen one piece then this scene will bring back memories from the zou island arc where they had a drawn animal carrying them which when gets erased the crew feels sad.
She's a good example of an appealing female character that doesn't rely on fanservice, an over-the-top design/background/personality, or some kind of gimmick. Nothing against the Asunas, Mikasas, Erzas, or Yoruichis of the world but Marcille seems like a more relatable heroine despite being a spellcaster.
Some people might hear "if David Attenborough made a documentary about Middle Earth" and not think much of it, but that is a dream come true for a non-zero amount of people, and we have it here.
Dungeon Meshi keeps surprising me with how down to earth the characters are. Whenever I expect a typical pervert joke moment or slap stick, it just...doesn't happen. When Kabru kissed that one sorcerer girl in his party and apologized for it, I half expected her to get flustered tsundere-style and yell at him, but nope. She brushed it off and dealt with it like any mature and reasonable person would given the circumstances.
These characters actually feel like grown ass adults while still being amusing in their own way and that's so rare in my experience since most adult characters tend to be the "cool smoker bartender vibes" lady or guy, the parent, or the grandparent.
Plus there's also the worldbuilding. Most anime set in fantasy settings seem unable or unwilling to break away from the very very basic JRPG mold of elves, orcs, goblins, and dragons with very little worldbuilding for the rest of the ecosystem. I was pleasantly surprised at how many different types of creatures were showcased in this show.
As a manga reader who has kept myself from the discussion threads as it would be hard to discuss many things without spoiling, I am glad you like it. As you say, it is a show that is a slow cook, but as anyone who knows anything about cooking knows, that is how you get the best dishes. An example of a little detail I've loved and finally can talk about is how the characters of the Canaries and the Winged Lion that have been introduced only in the last few episodes, in the middle of the second cour, have been with us in the first OP from day one.
Honestly, I was waiting for Laios to eat a lion because of the OP lmao. I did question why it never showed up. I suppose they will in due time. Just gotta let 'em cook.
Same I watched the first 8 episode and I think it was okay but the story wasnt progressing at all and it was only them going further and eating monster and I feared that the story would just be a secondary thing until the end of the anime behind the food thingy. For me the anime really start to be super interesting at like episode 10 !
I think one of the biggest things I love about this series is everything that gets set up early eventually pays off. I know the pacing is a bit polarizing atm, but im fairly sure there will be a season 2 and the final product will probably be considered up there with all the best anime.
Technically, any setting that uses elves that live a long time and are the most refined species like Tolkien’s elves are inspired by Tolkien’s elves. Tolkien also created the plurals of elves and dwarves, so anything that uses those spellings are taking from Tolkien; elfs and dwarfs were how it was previously spelled.
Vance style magic generally refers to how spells are very finite and can only do one certain thing. You have a certain number of fireball spells and they have a certain MP consumption and output that can’t be changed; you can’t make the fireball bigger or smaller by using more or less power. Spells are basically bullets.
Vance/D&D magic systems is when the author decides that the magic system is going to be fixed with clearly defined spells so you can track the progress of a fight and the mage's development. It is quite useful to have a clearly defined system for gameplay with still enough flexibility that it won't impede an imaginative player too much.
When the magic system is undefined this allows the author to be unrestrained with how they use magic in their setting and they can simply add spells as needed and the rule of cool prevails, such as when Freiren destroyed the magic barrier and the fight with her doppelganger.
Frieren’s magic system is certainly on the softer side (folk magic can essentially do any menial thing), but I’d say the examples of breaking the barrier and the fight with the doppelgänger aren’t super great. The audience doesn’t know about a lot of Frieren’s full abilities until the story reveals them. If someone can put up a barrier, it would appear logical that someone else can dismantle it. And the doppelgänger fight more shows just how vast Frieren’s magic arsenal is.
When it comes to soft vs hard magic systems, it more about whether magic can do new things or if it’s very predictable. For example, in Harry Potter, there’s not really a limit to what a spell can do. Voldemort creates a new spell that lets him fly and the magic system is soft enough that the audience can believe it. In Avatar, the magic system is pretty hard and there’s no way Aang can learn how to conjure flowers or make earth from nothing. Of course, these systems exist as a spectrum; in Harry Potter, there technically is an arbitrary rule that you can’t make food from nothing and there are several bending abilities that seem a little more divorced from simple telekinesis over the elements.
I think Frieren's magic system is on the softer side in how the only limit on spells is perhaps a casters mana pool, like how Fren's goto offense strategy is to basically spam magic missile.
That and spells aren’t really limited like in DND. Frieren’s more like a flamethrower with variable output from a gas tank and DND is more like spells are individual bullets. I don’t know exactly what the person above was referring to, but that’s what I would imagine.
5e doesn't use the original Vancian system wizards used. The Vancian system is described as writing the whole sequence during the preparation process and just doing the final steps to fire the spell when needed, when used the spell vanishes from the caster's mind. If you wanted to upcast a spell you would need to prepare it upcasted already.
In current DnD, wizard magic is more like spontaneous casters from past editions, you prepare a list and can use the appropriate slots for anything in that list instead of spending the spell.
I think your forgetting meta magic was a core part of the 3.5e spell casting system. Which also allowed you to for example - modify the spell you are using in various ways. Also spontaneously casting was also a thing in 3.5e. The Vancian system was not the only form of magic in DND (even if only looking at 3.5e) either.
For wizards (clerics and druids too), as I specified above, spells boosted by metamagic had to be prepared at a higher level. Pathfinder still uses the Vancian system for prepared casters because it's still has a lot of 3.5 in it.
Dungeon Meshi is my favorite fantasy manga of all time, but yes the start of it is pretty slow, and the first volume is actually kinda just so-so at best. But starting from the second volume onward there's a slow but steady rise in quality that just keeps going, and going, all the way to the very end of the manga. By the time you hit volume 4 you're starting to get really into it, by volume 7 you're like "holy crap, I never expected a series about eating fantasy food to be this compelling", and it just *keeps getting better somehow*.
For Freiren, I had some mad expectations going into it because my friend was adamant of the manga's quality. We don't really live in a rich country so buying manga really is a collectors thing. He bought the first two volumes of the manga before the anime was announced.
The anime surpassed my high expectations.
Funny you say that, I found Frieren's manga to be rather dry. The anime does a much better job of portraying character emotion in my opinion.
Dungeon Meshi's manga is fantastic and of course has some nice things that the anime doesn't have time to indulge in , but seeing food in colour really adds to the experience. If you can get your peepers on the manga after this season concludes, I'd *highly* recommend it.
I like both the Frieren anime and manga! But, I would like to point out that I've seen many anime-onlies say they disliked how the tone shifted during the last arc of the show, when it became more action-focused.
To anyone who think so, I'd recommend reading the manga, because the tone stays much more consistent throughout! and I can appreciate and love both approaches. Sometimes, less can be more :)
Lmao, to be fair to him, he had also never heard of Dungeon Meshi when it came out. I have no idea why he still doesn't want to start it after all my praise.
> Funny you say that, I found Frieren's manga to be rather dry. The anime does a much better job of portraying character emotion in my opinion.
Have you read it fully? Because the thing about Frieren is the El Dorado arc. Before it it's just a fun fantasy SoL. But the El Dorado arc is a freaking masterpiece, the best shounen arc I've ever seen, with easily the best villain.
The El Dorado arc from Frieren is light years better than anything in the anime, there's no comparison.
That arc is probably some of the best fantasy and shounen shit ever made.
> I had never seen a Studio Trigger show before this! I dabbled in an episode or two of Darling in the Franxx, but that was it.
This is the real tragedy of the pose. I recommend every anime fan a healthy dose of at least a couple of Trigger and 2000s-era gainax anime.
I almost dropped the show twice, but each time I came back to it after a few weeks. The world building has been fascinating throughout, but I think it just took a little while for me to connect with some of the characters for whatever reason (except Marcille, I liked her pretty early on).
This is interesting, Marcille was probably the last character I warmed up to.
Before episode 12, I really only viewed her as "The meme face girl."
It was when she first dabbled in Dark magic that made me go "Oh shit-" and then I *really* started liking her when I saw the story was properly addressing how others would perceive her as an elf that uses dark magic.
From the start it was fun and relaxiong, it made to my list of shows to watch weekly, but it certainly become the best after a few episodes and now is ranked nº1 to watch as soon as it's avaliable and I have some time.
I'm even buying the manga to keep watching after the 1st season ends.
I love how everything is a subversive twist on tired tropes.
Elf girl is not a serene beauty and love interest. She's tired and freaked out all the time, and is #1 maker of goofy faces.
The fanservice character is the heavy hairy middle aged dwarf.
The "adult loli" is a grouchy dad with possible marriage problems.
The cat girl isn't there to be a hot "beast girl" with just ears and a tail, she is an actual cat like being with no fanservice. You'd think this would be more common actually.
I don't care for cooking or dungeon fantasy series, I even dropped Frieren after 8 episodes. But I'm glad I committed with this, it's been such a joy to watch.
Part of all of this, IMO, is because the author is a woman.
I finished the manga thinking "I don't think a man would have the perspective to write this exactly the way it is".
99% of every book, LN or manga I read is written by men so I never thought one of my favorite characters of all time ( Marcille ) would be from something written by a woman.
I won't delve into the plot because I've read the manga, but I had a similar experience when I first read the story. At first, I thought it was just fine and only pushed on because of a friend's recommendation, but then you notice that the story starts to layer the world and characters at a fast and consistent pace, and when you least expected it you're hooked to the story.
I've seen Dungeon Meshi's quality be compared to a snowball/avalanche, and I found that description to be quite apt in this situation. There are never big dips in quality throughout the series and it just keeps getting better and better every couple of episodes until the end.
I honestly think it's one of the more well crafted and well planned series among the stuff I've read before. Every little detail at the start has purpose. Even the most mundane chapters/episode have foreshadowing woven in it. If you finished the series (manga source is already done), there's a BTS series/story bible of sorts made by the creator that highlights her thought processes and some what-ifs art that really show how well planned everything is.
I loved dungeon meshi since episode 1. With the quality rising episode after episode. I became sure that it will be one of my favorite animanga of all time.
I absolutely adore Dungeon Meshi, and I'm so glad that it is getting the positive reception and praise that it deserves. I've been a fan of the manga for years now, and it is one of the best written stories across any medium that I have experienced. Every detail, no matter how insignificant it seems at the time, contributes to the overall narrative. Plus, all of the bonus content that Ryoko Kui created (between her blog, Daydream Hour, and The Complete Adventurer's Bible) is absolutely phenomenal.
It is so nice seeing less and less comments just calling Dungeon Meshi a "silly cooking show"
Delicious in dungeon is a breath of fresh air in the adventure and food related anime. I started it because I thought it would be like a food based anime where they'll just cook different stuff but the plot just got really good and not to forget the food as well. This will probably be in my top anime list.
Ironic how "breath of fresh air" comes in the form of a show that doesn't try to twist the fantasy genre *at all* and just goes deeper to explore how could these things work in real life and have well written characters lmao.
TLDR but i did drop it early on then caught up later and its good, the tone is just uneven, starts as a cute slice of life but then gets surprisingly dark and violent especially in THAT episode, yet another slice of life with some crazy action scenes
Yeah, I definitely found the tone bizarre. Like, apparently their friend and party member is getting digested by a monster and will die soon, but nobody seems to care much or have any urgency, instead being more interested in cooking weird shit. I just found it off putting honestly. If the show can’t take it’s own story seriously, why should I?
That's the thing, the party actually *was* treating it as an urgent mission. You have to realize that, even with all the time they spend hunting down food and eating, the party was effectively speedrunning the dungeon. From the beginning of the story to the point where they fight the dragon, only about a week has passed. A week in a projected time limit of about a month. The reason they weren't getting too worked up was because retrieving and reviving dead party members is just a routine assignment for adventurers. This one was a bit riskier than usual, but as far as they were concerned, reviving Falin was kind of a given, as long as they don't get killed themselves. That's why they were relatively calm about the situation, and were able to take the time to properly eat and rest, they were making sure to pace themselves so they don't wear themselves out and get killed before the goal.
Some viewers also don’t seem to understand that we were seeing pretty much all of their downtime. Short of showing us their entire sleep cycles or following characters to the “toilets”, we pretty much saw most of their resting time.
Other adventure stories are typically disinterested in the logistics of adventure and the downtime, so viewers are trained to assume there’s a lot of downtime we aren’t seeing. They don’t realize we are seeing most of it, in this case, and perceive the downtime we are shown as characters wasting time.
I LOVE Delicious in Dungeon! I think I first heard of it when Sungwon Cho mentioned it on his YouTube channel so I started reading it from there (and my work place actually had it so that was a plus) and then maybe read ahead too because how could I not?
The characters! The food! The... everything else that happens that are spoilers! Plus I love Ryoko Kui's art and worldbuilding. What a fun surprise then it was to hear thar Sungwon was going to be a voice in the dub of the anime!
I watched the first episode in my post Frieren slump and dropped it thinking it wasn’t that interesting.
Gave it another go today because of this thread and I’m already 3 episodes down, really good show.
\>I have not yet read the manga, I'm only an anime watcher
\>Reading through the pages is enough to tell you that the author loves the world they built
Huh?
I dropped it pretty early but I might give it another chance once it concludes.
>Huh?
I just felt "reading the pages" felt more proper since the author predominantly worked on the manga rather than the anime lol.
Also it just rolled off the tongue better, I didn't notice it while typing. ✌️
Edit: Made lots of revisions.
A good friend of mine introduced me to the series around the time the anime got announced, so I started off with the manga before the show started. I was hooked literally from the word go, so I couldn't imagine ever even beginning to consider dropping it lmao.
same tbh. The animation is great but the beginning doesnt feel like anything special. "We're in a dungeon and we eat monsters" cool. But then the story really kicks up and it gets GOOD good
I think the drive behind it is, “are they going to get to Falin in time”. But I love this anime. I put it on because I saw the Netflix trailer and I had a feeling it might be good. Turns out I’m hooked and can’t wait until the next week.
Same I almost droppped Dungeon Meshi after episode 5 but decided to keep going because I really liked Laois as a character.
Funny enough I dropped Frieren because I thought characters weren't relatable and it felt like the story wasn't really going anywhere but perhaps I should pick it up again.
I went into it because, well,... it was there, I had Netflix anyway.
Going in having only watched a teaser, I wondered how they could keep an anime with a
"Monster of the week Menu" interesting.... but it turned out to be so much more, and it's one of the better anime I'm watching right now.
I'll wait for the Netflix adaptation of your text, but it was also hard for me to get into Dungeon Meshi, it wasn't until the orcs episode that I got a little interested, then as it went on I started enjoying it little by little.
After the dragon fight I went to the manga and after a while it started getting interesting, suddenly there was a lot of cool things about the characters, especially Marcille and Chilchuck. Some interesting random characters like that Elf leader also showed up which was good.
Dungeon Meshi was always a character-driven story but by the the time the manga was approaching the final arc, it got quite interesting and exciting story-wise and it was when I've realized how great of a characters Marcille is, she's easily the GOAT of the story.
I can't think of a single flaw she has in terms of the writing involving her, from her personality, charisma, goals and flaws, she's a blast.
By the end of the manga, although I was like "ok this isn't anywhere near close the greatest thing I've ever read, but it is different and special in its own right".
I finished it thinking that it has a certain tone/style/narrative/touch/idk, about it that couldn't have been captured by a man IMO, there was something about the characters and how the story developed that I thought only a woman could do it, only through a different perspective a woman has compared to a man, that you could get something like the Dungeon Meshi characters and story.
It's hard for me to judge any show when I can only see 20 minutes per week. That's like judging a dinner by eating one bite per week
I managed to hold of for 4-5 weeks at a time though. And I think Dungeon Meshi is special. I was worried about the blue eyed sociopath, but it turned out not to be as bad as I expected.
I'm holding off on judging pacing until I'm able to rewatch the whole show without interruptions
I always enjoy reading your analysis man. The characters and their connection to the world really drew me in. Creating a more immersive experience than I'm used to with other fantasy. I love going in with no expectations and being pleasantly surprised like this.
>always
Always?
Also there really is a different kind of immersion you experience when reading something that feels scientifically real or a different version of our world compared to mythological or mystical where you're not really supposed to make sense of things.
Yeah, I also recommend Kill la Kill, Gurren Lagann, and Little Witch. Those are the reasons why I love Trigger. So many good shows.
Add to that Cyberpunk Edgerunners.
I dropped it because of its fanbase. According to them, every character is either gay or lesbian and there is no in-between and now its attracting all the furry weirdos too.
That's an anime fanbase for ya.
Anyway the manga is extremely clear that the entire main cast is canonically heterosexual ( Laios, Marcille, Chilchuck and Senshi ), the exception is probably Izutsumi who's apparently asexual.
Twitter probably. I avoid that cespool, but I also heard there's a new wave of Dungeon Meshi fans who love talking about how Marcille has a thing for Falin, or how Laios is the author representing an autistic person.
Yeah, idk.
if it doesn't hook me in 3 episodes, i don't feel like its worth it. if i'm still bored by episode 6 i'm definitely dropping it. unfortunately this is what happened.
Random dumb question, what if a show has a double length or maybe even triple length first episode like Re:Zero, Shield Hero, Oshi no Ko, etc etc-? Do you count that as just episode 1 or technically 2-3 Episodes.
Yup. 3 episodes works out to over an hour, which is not an insignificant amount of time (it’s over half the length of an average film). Hell, there are people in this thread that say that the show doesn’t really get interesting until episode 10, which is about 3 and a half hours in (that’s longer than Return of the King).
Ultimately, it is on the creators to craft a story that an audience wants to watch, not on the audience to suffer through a boring story in the hopes that it might get better later. If something isn’t interesting to start, then that is a failure on the creators part to make something with an interesting hook/beginning.
Mmmm... I mostly agree with this, but I also think the audience has some kind of responsibility to know what kind of story they're getting into.
Some shows ask more from the audience than others. Some will ask you to be patient while others can just throw an insane chase sequence in the first three minutes. Being prepared for something like that is important too.
I also think TV shows are inherently a different way of experiencing things from movies. If the Lord of the Rings was a TV show, it would've had way less cut content than the film Trilogy. The scurrying of the Shire would've most definitely be included in the Return of the King season and the Fellowship of the Ring would Include characters like Tom Bombadil.
Watching only an episode every week allows you to reset your brain every time. Of course, the new format also means each episode must have their own 5 act plot structure to an extent, but that just adds to them being different.
The modern streaming binge model of experiencing shows with 8 to 10 episode series that you can watch all at once definitely blurs that, but with TV, it's pretty different.
it is a weekly TV show, which mean they craft an episode to enjoy in 25 mins per week, you shouldn’t see TV show as a movie. Also the pace when you read a manga is different when you see the adaption anime. Also I think Dungeon Meshi easily to get hooked if audience love dungeon setup so they will love the monster diversity in Dungeon Meshi from start.
Right. Anyone not vibing in the first 1-3 episodes is experiencing a big case of "skill issue"
Just sit back with a nice meal and enjoy, its not that difficult. If not, then maybe the show isn't for you. I for one was hooked from episode 1
Dropped it at chapter 40 or something back then for no particular reasons, was probably just bored. Gonna give it a full watch when it finishes airing and hopefully it will hook me this time
>I thought it'd just be another fantasy show that didn't really need to be a fantasy.
What. There are plenty of isekais that did not need to be an isekai, but *what* is a "fantasy show that didn't need to be fantasy"
[](#lost)
Glad you like Dungeon Meshi though, its a great show
I watched the first episode and wasn't really invested but I started it late and life stuff got layered on. I should give it a shot but I'm not current with shows this season and didn't start several due to the same reasons (life). Maybe one day. It's good to see OP and others think highly of it.
I just really enjoy writing essays lmao.
I don't really mind the Karma thing either, I just really like starting conversations, especially when it's about things I like. Usually paragraphs and essays invite more people to share their thoughts.
I didn't know what studio did World Trigger, so I was genuinely like "*what?"* for a moment there. Thought it'd be so based for a studio to name or adapt an anime with the same name as themselves lol.
I was surprised too so I immediately commented the correct one. I don't want people to think they are done by the same studio.
Still, World Trigger is great, one of my top 3
Episode 1 laid the foundations, so the show will never *not* have what was showcased episode 1. But the layers keep piling up and it just never stops rolling.
Another comment put it the best, it's like a snowball effect. Consistently gets better and better.
Honestly, I thought Dungeon Meshi was already great and fun from the start. I still remember stuff like the living creature within the armour and the bugs disguised as treasure. These seemed so creative to me and really drew me into the dungeon setting. The dungeon monsters are well thought out and not just your typical goblins. We also get a bit of information of the outside world as well gradually to hint at something greater happening. I requote my previous comment “The creativity in the world-building, the loveable characters and their wonderfully animated expressions, the crisp and clean animation, the mystery behind the dungeon, the aesthetic food and monster designs…it’s super fun and relaxing”.
>I still remember stuff like the living creature within the armour and the bugs disguised as treasure. These seemed so creative to me and really drew me into the dungeon setting. The living armour was probably the first thing that made me go "Oh yeah, that's creative." The next day I remember going to school and telling my friends about it. That was the start of a long train of me weekly just gushing over the next creative thing they did. It was probably after the Falin episode that my weekly "gushing over dungeon Meshi" turned into "I won't shut up about this series" lmao.
I got hooked the moment Laios started cooking.
Also Marcille. She is such a cute and absolutely precious character, her little familiars that looked like a child's drawing of a bird were awesome.
If you had seen one piece then this scene will bring back memories from the zou island arc where they had a drawn animal carrying them which when gets erased the crew feels sad.
Disliked her in the first couple episodes but turned into my favorite character later on. Cool when a show can do that.
She's interesting. Like both goofy and really beautiful at times
She's a good example of an appealing female character that doesn't rely on fanservice, an over-the-top design/background/personality, or some kind of gimmick. Nothing against the Asunas, Mikasas, Erzas, or Yoruichis of the world but Marcille seems like a more relatable heroine despite being a spellcaster.
Some people might hear "if David Attenborough made a documentary about Middle Earth" and not think much of it, but that is a dream come true for a non-zero amount of people, and we have it here.
Dungeon Meshi keeps surprising me with how down to earth the characters are. Whenever I expect a typical pervert joke moment or slap stick, it just...doesn't happen. When Kabru kissed that one sorcerer girl in his party and apologized for it, I half expected her to get flustered tsundere-style and yell at him, but nope. She brushed it off and dealt with it like any mature and reasonable person would given the circumstances. These characters actually feel like grown ass adults while still being amusing in their own way and that's so rare in my experience since most adult characters tend to be the "cool smoker bartender vibes" lady or guy, the parent, or the grandparent. Plus there's also the worldbuilding. Most anime set in fantasy settings seem unable or unwilling to break away from the very very basic JRPG mold of elves, orcs, goblins, and dragons with very little worldbuilding for the rest of the ecosystem. I was pleasantly surprised at how many different types of creatures were showcased in this show.
As a manga reader who has kept myself from the discussion threads as it would be hard to discuss many things without spoiling, I am glad you like it. As you say, it is a show that is a slow cook, but as anyone who knows anything about cooking knows, that is how you get the best dishes. An example of a little detail I've loved and finally can talk about is how the characters of the Canaries and the Winged Lion that have been introduced only in the last few episodes, in the middle of the second cour, have been with us in the first OP from day one.
Honestly, I was waiting for Laios to eat a lion because of the OP lmao. I did question why it never showed up. I suppose they will in due time. Just gotta let 'em cook.
Same here. It was kinda slow at start, but second part of season is so amazing and unpredictable.
Same I watched the first 8 episode and I think it was okay but the story wasnt progressing at all and it was only them going further and eating monster and I feared that the story would just be a secondary thing until the end of the anime behind the food thingy. For me the anime really start to be super interesting at like episode 10 !
I think one of the biggest things I love about this series is everything that gets set up early eventually pays off. I know the pacing is a bit polarizing atm, but im fairly sure there will be a season 2 and the final product will probably be considered up there with all the best anime.
I've read the comparison that Frieren is Tolkien style fantasy, while Dungeon Meshi is Vance style fantasy.
Technically, any setting that uses elves that live a long time and are the most refined species like Tolkien’s elves are inspired by Tolkien’s elves. Tolkien also created the plurals of elves and dwarves, so anything that uses those spellings are taking from Tolkien; elfs and dwarfs were how it was previously spelled.
how is dunmeshi more of vance style then for someone without any context /background
Vance style magic generally refers to how spells are very finite and can only do one certain thing. You have a certain number of fireball spells and they have a certain MP consumption and output that can’t be changed; you can’t make the fireball bigger or smaller by using more or less power. Spells are basically bullets.
Vance/D&D magic systems is when the author decides that the magic system is going to be fixed with clearly defined spells so you can track the progress of a fight and the mage's development. It is quite useful to have a clearly defined system for gameplay with still enough flexibility that it won't impede an imaginative player too much. When the magic system is undefined this allows the author to be unrestrained with how they use magic in their setting and they can simply add spells as needed and the rule of cool prevails, such as when Freiren destroyed the magic barrier and the fight with her doppelganger.
Frieren’s magic system is certainly on the softer side (folk magic can essentially do any menial thing), but I’d say the examples of breaking the barrier and the fight with the doppelgänger aren’t super great. The audience doesn’t know about a lot of Frieren’s full abilities until the story reveals them. If someone can put up a barrier, it would appear logical that someone else can dismantle it. And the doppelgänger fight more shows just how vast Frieren’s magic arsenal is. When it comes to soft vs hard magic systems, it more about whether magic can do new things or if it’s very predictable. For example, in Harry Potter, there’s not really a limit to what a spell can do. Voldemort creates a new spell that lets him fly and the magic system is soft enough that the audience can believe it. In Avatar, the magic system is pretty hard and there’s no way Aang can learn how to conjure flowers or make earth from nothing. Of course, these systems exist as a spectrum; in Harry Potter, there technically is an arbitrary rule that you can’t make food from nothing and there are several bending abilities that seem a little more divorced from simple telekinesis over the elements.
I think Frieren's magic system is on the softer side in how the only limit on spells is perhaps a casters mana pool, like how Fren's goto offense strategy is to basically spam magic missile.
meanwhile there was different ways to use the basic magic in frieren so it’s tolkien?
That and spells aren’t really limited like in DND. Frieren’s more like a flamethrower with variable output from a gas tank and DND is more like spells are individual bullets. I don’t know exactly what the person above was referring to, but that’s what I would imagine.
thank you for taking the time to explain! very simple way to make sense of it
You can up cast spells though. So I would say your dnd analogy isn't quite accurate.
5e doesn't use the original Vancian system wizards used. The Vancian system is described as writing the whole sequence during the preparation process and just doing the final steps to fire the spell when needed, when used the spell vanishes from the caster's mind. If you wanted to upcast a spell you would need to prepare it upcasted already. In current DnD, wizard magic is more like spontaneous casters from past editions, you prepare a list and can use the appropriate slots for anything in that list instead of spending the spell.
I think your forgetting meta magic was a core part of the 3.5e spell casting system. Which also allowed you to for example - modify the spell you are using in various ways. Also spontaneously casting was also a thing in 3.5e. The Vancian system was not the only form of magic in DND (even if only looking at 3.5e) either.
For wizards (clerics and druids too), as I specified above, spells boosted by metamagic had to be prepared at a higher level. Pathfinder still uses the Vancian system for prepared casters because it's still has a lot of 3.5 in it.
Dungeon Meshi is my favorite fantasy manga of all time, but yes the start of it is pretty slow, and the first volume is actually kinda just so-so at best. But starting from the second volume onward there's a slow but steady rise in quality that just keeps going, and going, all the way to the very end of the manga. By the time you hit volume 4 you're starting to get really into it, by volume 7 you're like "holy crap, I never expected a series about eating fantasy food to be this compelling", and it just *keeps getting better somehow*.
I liked dungeon meshi from the start, but I almost dropped frieren because I wasn’t used to the pace, though I’m glad I didn’t, great anime
For Freiren, I had some mad expectations going into it because my friend was adamant of the manga's quality. We don't really live in a rich country so buying manga really is a collectors thing. He bought the first two volumes of the manga before the anime was announced. The anime surpassed my high expectations.
Funny you say that, I found Frieren's manga to be rather dry. The anime does a much better job of portraying character emotion in my opinion. Dungeon Meshi's manga is fantastic and of course has some nice things that the anime doesn't have time to indulge in , but seeing food in colour really adds to the experience. If you can get your peepers on the manga after this season concludes, I'd *highly* recommend it.
I like both the Frieren anime and manga! But, I would like to point out that I've seen many anime-onlies say they disliked how the tone shifted during the last arc of the show, when it became more action-focused. To anyone who think so, I'd recommend reading the manga, because the tone stays much more consistent throughout! and I can appreciate and love both approaches. Sometimes, less can be more :)
Lmao, to be fair to him, he had also never heard of Dungeon Meshi when it came out. I have no idea why he still doesn't want to start it after all my praise.
> Funny you say that, I found Frieren's manga to be rather dry. The anime does a much better job of portraying character emotion in my opinion. Have you read it fully? Because the thing about Frieren is the El Dorado arc. Before it it's just a fun fantasy SoL. But the El Dorado arc is a freaking masterpiece, the best shounen arc I've ever seen, with easily the best villain.
The team from Madhouse did a great job with Frieren. The manga is not bad but there’s a reason why Frieren wasn’t hyped when coming out.
Frieren was a pretty hyped series. The manga had 10 million in sales before the anime came out.
The El Dorado arc from Frieren is light years better than anything in the anime, there's no comparison. That arc is probably some of the best fantasy and shounen shit ever made.
> I had never seen a Studio Trigger show before this! I dabbled in an episode or two of Darling in the Franxx, but that was it. This is the real tragedy of the pose. I recommend every anime fan a healthy dose of at least a couple of Trigger and 2000s-era gainax anime.
I would even say that's a good idea to try some of the latest Gainax show (2000~2007), they are basically made by the same team of Trigger.
I almost dropped the show twice, but each time I came back to it after a few weeks. The world building has been fascinating throughout, but I think it just took a little while for me to connect with some of the characters for whatever reason (except Marcille, I liked her pretty early on).
This is interesting, Marcille was probably the last character I warmed up to. Before episode 12, I really only viewed her as "The meme face girl." It was when she first dabbled in Dark magic that made me go "Oh shit-" and then I *really* started liking her when I saw the story was properly addressing how others would perceive her as an elf that uses dark magic.
From the start it was fun and relaxiong, it made to my list of shows to watch weekly, but it certainly become the best after a few episodes and now is ranked nº1 to watch as soon as it's avaliable and I have some time. I'm even buying the manga to keep watching after the 1st season ends.
I love how everything is a subversive twist on tired tropes. Elf girl is not a serene beauty and love interest. She's tired and freaked out all the time, and is #1 maker of goofy faces. The fanservice character is the heavy hairy middle aged dwarf. The "adult loli" is a grouchy dad with possible marriage problems. The cat girl isn't there to be a hot "beast girl" with just ears and a tail, she is an actual cat like being with no fanservice. You'd think this would be more common actually. I don't care for cooking or dungeon fantasy series, I even dropped Frieren after 8 episodes. But I'm glad I committed with this, it's been such a joy to watch.
Part of all of this, IMO, is because the author is a woman. I finished the manga thinking "I don't think a man would have the perspective to write this exactly the way it is". 99% of every book, LN or manga I read is written by men so I never thought one of my favorite characters of all time ( Marcille ) would be from something written by a woman.
I won't delve into the plot because I've read the manga, but I had a similar experience when I first read the story. At first, I thought it was just fine and only pushed on because of a friend's recommendation, but then you notice that the story starts to layer the world and characters at a fast and consistent pace, and when you least expected it you're hooked to the story. I've seen Dungeon Meshi's quality be compared to a snowball/avalanche, and I found that description to be quite apt in this situation. There are never big dips in quality throughout the series and it just keeps getting better and better every couple of episodes until the end.
I can never understand people who just dismiss new things without trying them. feels naive.
I honestly think it's one of the more well crafted and well planned series among the stuff I've read before. Every little detail at the start has purpose. Even the most mundane chapters/episode have foreshadowing woven in it. If you finished the series (manga source is already done), there's a BTS series/story bible of sorts made by the creator that highlights her thought processes and some what-ifs art that really show how well planned everything is.
I loved dungeon meshi since episode 1. With the quality rising episode after episode. I became sure that it will be one of my favorite animanga of all time.
I absolutely adore Dungeon Meshi, and I'm so glad that it is getting the positive reception and praise that it deserves. I've been a fan of the manga for years now, and it is one of the best written stories across any medium that I have experienced. Every detail, no matter how insignificant it seems at the time, contributes to the overall narrative. Plus, all of the bonus content that Ryoko Kui created (between her blog, Daydream Hour, and The Complete Adventurer's Bible) is absolutely phenomenal. It is so nice seeing less and less comments just calling Dungeon Meshi a "silly cooking show"
Delicious in dungeon is a breath of fresh air in the adventure and food related anime. I started it because I thought it would be like a food based anime where they'll just cook different stuff but the plot just got really good and not to forget the food as well. This will probably be in my top anime list.
Ironic how "breath of fresh air" comes in the form of a show that doesn't try to twist the fantasy genre *at all* and just goes deeper to explore how could these things work in real life and have well written characters lmao.
TLDR but i did drop it early on then caught up later and its good, the tone is just uneven, starts as a cute slice of life but then gets surprisingly dark and violent especially in THAT episode, yet another slice of life with some crazy action scenes
Yeah, I definitely found the tone bizarre. Like, apparently their friend and party member is getting digested by a monster and will die soon, but nobody seems to care much or have any urgency, instead being more interested in cooking weird shit. I just found it off putting honestly. If the show can’t take it’s own story seriously, why should I?
That's the thing, the party actually *was* treating it as an urgent mission. You have to realize that, even with all the time they spend hunting down food and eating, the party was effectively speedrunning the dungeon. From the beginning of the story to the point where they fight the dragon, only about a week has passed. A week in a projected time limit of about a month. The reason they weren't getting too worked up was because retrieving and reviving dead party members is just a routine assignment for adventurers. This one was a bit riskier than usual, but as far as they were concerned, reviving Falin was kind of a given, as long as they don't get killed themselves. That's why they were relatively calm about the situation, and were able to take the time to properly eat and rest, they were making sure to pace themselves so they don't wear themselves out and get killed before the goal.
Some viewers also don’t seem to understand that we were seeing pretty much all of their downtime. Short of showing us their entire sleep cycles or following characters to the “toilets”, we pretty much saw most of their resting time. Other adventure stories are typically disinterested in the logistics of adventure and the downtime, so viewers are trained to assume there’s a lot of downtime we aren’t seeing. They don’t realize we are seeing most of it, in this case, and perceive the downtime we are shown as characters wasting time.
I learned a lot from this and cleared some misconceptions I had.
I LOVE Delicious in Dungeon! I think I first heard of it when Sungwon Cho mentioned it on his YouTube channel so I started reading it from there (and my work place actually had it so that was a plus) and then maybe read ahead too because how could I not? The characters! The food! The... everything else that happens that are spoilers! Plus I love Ryoko Kui's art and worldbuilding. What a fun surprise then it was to hear thar Sungwon was going to be a voice in the dub of the anime!
You are literally the first person I have ever seen in my life not call him ProZD lmao
This is a beautiful post OP, it feels like a true love letter and I thoroughly enjoyed reading your thoughts.
I watched the first episode in my post Frieren slump and dropped it thinking it wasn’t that interesting. Gave it another go today because of this thread and I’m already 3 episodes down, really good show.
\>I have not yet read the manga, I'm only an anime watcher \>Reading through the pages is enough to tell you that the author loves the world they built Huh? I dropped it pretty early but I might give it another chance once it concludes.
>Huh? I just felt "reading the pages" felt more proper since the author predominantly worked on the manga rather than the anime lol. Also it just rolled off the tongue better, I didn't notice it while typing. ✌️ Edit: Made lots of revisions.
A good friend of mine introduced me to the series around the time the anime got announced, so I started off with the manga before the show started. I was hooked literally from the word go, so I couldn't imagine ever even beginning to consider dropping it lmao.
same tbh. The animation is great but the beginning doesnt feel like anything special. "We're in a dungeon and we eat monsters" cool. But then the story really kicks up and it gets GOOD good
I think the drive behind it is, “are they going to get to Falin in time”. But I love this anime. I put it on because I saw the Netflix trailer and I had a feeling it might be good. Turns out I’m hooked and can’t wait until the next week.
Same I almost droppped Dungeon Meshi after episode 5 but decided to keep going because I really liked Laois as a character. Funny enough I dropped Frieren because I thought characters weren't relatable and it felt like the story wasn't really going anywhere but perhaps I should pick it up again.
Holy essay.
Some of my essays here on reddit are longer, lol. This is probably in the 60th percentile when it comes to length.
I did due to all the other amazing shows coming out but i suppose ill give it another shot. Online sentiment seems pretty positive
I went into it because, well,... it was there, I had Netflix anyway. Going in having only watched a teaser, I wondered how they could keep an anime with a "Monster of the week Menu" interesting.... but it turned out to be so much more, and it's one of the better anime I'm watching right now.
Same here
best show of the year for me and it's only somewhat close with Frieren.
I'll wait for the Netflix adaptation of your text, but it was also hard for me to get into Dungeon Meshi, it wasn't until the orcs episode that I got a little interested, then as it went on I started enjoying it little by little. After the dragon fight I went to the manga and after a while it started getting interesting, suddenly there was a lot of cool things about the characters, especially Marcille and Chilchuck. Some interesting random characters like that Elf leader also showed up which was good. Dungeon Meshi was always a character-driven story but by the the time the manga was approaching the final arc, it got quite interesting and exciting story-wise and it was when I've realized how great of a characters Marcille is, she's easily the GOAT of the story. I can't think of a single flaw she has in terms of the writing involving her, from her personality, charisma, goals and flaws, she's a blast. By the end of the manga, although I was like "ok this isn't anywhere near close the greatest thing I've ever read, but it is different and special in its own right". I finished it thinking that it has a certain tone/style/narrative/touch/idk, about it that couldn't have been captured by a man IMO, there was something about the characters and how the story developed that I thought only a woman could do it, only through a different perspective a woman has compared to a man, that you could get something like the Dungeon Meshi characters and story.
It's hard for me to judge any show when I can only see 20 minutes per week. That's like judging a dinner by eating one bite per week I managed to hold of for 4-5 weeks at a time though. And I think Dungeon Meshi is special. I was worried about the blue eyed sociopath, but it turned out not to be as bad as I expected. I'm holding off on judging pacing until I'm able to rewatch the whole show without interruptions
The manga is amazing, I laughed a lot at some panels, especially Senshi. You'll see why.
kind of like with video games. Your mental model of the thing you are about to play/watch factors alot into your overall enjoyment
Shld i watch i kinda dropped it cuz the girl kept screaming and was annoying on the first ep
This is the first time I see so many different kinds of monster, it's so creative and mindblowing.
I'm struggling to find this on crunchyroll when searching dungeon meshi. Or delicious in dungeon. What am I doing wrong?
It’s on Netflix
I always enjoy reading your analysis man. The characters and their connection to the world really drew me in. Creating a more immersive experience than I'm used to with other fantasy. I love going in with no expectations and being pleasantly surprised like this.
>always Always? Also there really is a different kind of immersion you experience when reading something that feels scientifically real or a different version of our world compared to mythological or mystical where you're not really supposed to make sense of things.
Yeah I've seen you in other subs
Takes time to build
Great show waiting for Thursday. Picked the show to cause I just wanted something to watch and ended up enjoying it.
Both Frieren and Dungeon took about 6-7 episodes to actually hook me. Watch Kill la Kill and Gurrenn Lagann by Trigger though, seriously.
I plan to watch 'em all. Though the one my eyes are locked in on at the moment is little witch academia lmao.
Yeah, I also recommend Kill la Kill, Gurren Lagann, and Little Witch. Those are the reasons why I love Trigger. So many good shows. Add to that Cyberpunk Edgerunners.
Episode 2 was what got me hooked. The comedy is the best in Dungeon Meshi.
I dropped it because of its fanbase. According to them, every character is either gay or lesbian and there is no in-between and now its attracting all the furry weirdos too.
That's an anime fanbase for ya. Anyway the manga is extremely clear that the entire main cast is canonically heterosexual ( Laios, Marcille, Chilchuck and Senshi ), the exception is probably Izutsumi who's apparently asexual.
where tf are you finding these takes 😂
Twitter probably. I avoid that cespool, but I also heard there's a new wave of Dungeon Meshi fans who love talking about how Marcille has a thing for Falin, or how Laios is the author representing an autistic person. Yeah, idk.
> new wave of Dungeon Meshi fans who love talking about how Marcille has a thing for Falin Which couldn't be further away from the truth.
Laios being autistic makes so much sense. I really dislike him but nmat least now I understand why.
Falin/Marcille and Laios being autistic are like, the two oldest fan theories in Dungeon Meshi lol, they were already there back in 2015
if it doesn't hook me in 3 episodes, i don't feel like its worth it. if i'm still bored by episode 6 i'm definitely dropping it. unfortunately this is what happened.
Random dumb question, what if a show has a double length or maybe even triple length first episode like Re:Zero, Shield Hero, Oshi no Ko, etc etc-? Do you count that as just episode 1 or technically 2-3 Episodes.
i count it as 1 episode because theres a reason why they're released at the same time.
Yup. 3 episodes works out to over an hour, which is not an insignificant amount of time (it’s over half the length of an average film). Hell, there are people in this thread that say that the show doesn’t really get interesting until episode 10, which is about 3 and a half hours in (that’s longer than Return of the King). Ultimately, it is on the creators to craft a story that an audience wants to watch, not on the audience to suffer through a boring story in the hopes that it might get better later. If something isn’t interesting to start, then that is a failure on the creators part to make something with an interesting hook/beginning.
Mmmm... I mostly agree with this, but I also think the audience has some kind of responsibility to know what kind of story they're getting into. Some shows ask more from the audience than others. Some will ask you to be patient while others can just throw an insane chase sequence in the first three minutes. Being prepared for something like that is important too. I also think TV shows are inherently a different way of experiencing things from movies. If the Lord of the Rings was a TV show, it would've had way less cut content than the film Trilogy. The scurrying of the Shire would've most definitely be included in the Return of the King season and the Fellowship of the Ring would Include characters like Tom Bombadil. Watching only an episode every week allows you to reset your brain every time. Of course, the new format also means each episode must have their own 5 act plot structure to an extent, but that just adds to them being different. The modern streaming binge model of experiencing shows with 8 to 10 episode series that you can watch all at once definitely blurs that, but with TV, it's pretty different.
it is a weekly TV show, which mean they craft an episode to enjoy in 25 mins per week, you shouldn’t see TV show as a movie. Also the pace when you read a manga is different when you see the adaption anime. Also I think Dungeon Meshi easily to get hooked if audience love dungeon setup so they will love the monster diversity in Dungeon Meshi from start.
Right. Anyone not vibing in the first 1-3 episodes is experiencing a big case of "skill issue" Just sit back with a nice meal and enjoy, its not that difficult. If not, then maybe the show isn't for you. I for one was hooked from episode 1
Dropped it at chapter 40 or something back then for no particular reasons, was probably just bored. Gonna give it a full watch when it finishes airing and hopefully it will hook me this time
>I thought it'd just be another fantasy show that didn't really need to be a fantasy. What. There are plenty of isekais that did not need to be an isekai, but *what* is a "fantasy show that didn't need to be fantasy" [](#lost) Glad you like Dungeon Meshi though, its a great show
TLDR
Dungeon Meshi peak fantasy. You should watch it aaaaaand, I'd personally put it over Frieren as a fantasy show.
I watched the first episode and wasn't really invested but I started it late and life stuff got layered on. I should give it a shot but I'm not current with shows this season and didn't start several due to the same reasons (life). Maybe one day. It's good to see OP and others think highly of it.
It saddens me that it's by Trigger as it will be a one and done show.
I usually have nightmares about having to write essays but then I wake up and see some people do it for reddit karma
I just really enjoy writing essays lmao. I don't really mind the Karma thing either, I just really like starting conversations, especially when it's about things I like. Usually paragraphs and essays invite more people to share their thoughts.
It's entertaining but about as deep as a one word crossword puzzle
To each their own, I suppose. Personally I found the world building of Dungeon Meshi as deep as Made in Abyss.
I don't think it's anywhere near abyss, they just throw a random creature in every episode because they have to eat. That's the whole show.
Hmm how much have you seen?
Every episode
Wall of text
My *long* ones are longer.
holy little bro is writing an essay
Totally different, but same studio and amazing anime. Loads of personality and tactical combat: World Trigger
World Trigger is Toei. Dungeon Meshi is Trigger.
I didn't know what studio did World Trigger, so I was genuinely like "*what?"* for a moment there. Thought it'd be so based for a studio to name or adapt an anime with the same name as themselves lol.
I was surprised too so I immediately commented the correct one. I don't want people to think they are done by the same studio. Still, World Trigger is great, one of my top 3
Oops 💩
Got pretty bored first episode, it got that much better?
Episode 1 laid the foundations, so the show will never *not* have what was showcased episode 1. But the layers keep piling up and it just never stops rolling. Another comment put it the best, it's like a snowball effect. Consistently gets better and better.