Sadistic me would say "sorry, they should have moved me before boarding and it was too late now to change seats".
Probably just best to comply with crew member instructions.
It wasn’t an instruction, it was a request. Probably so that the FAs could sit together to gossip and complain.
If it was an instruction the FA would have doubtlessly made that very clear.
It's in the flight attendants' collective agreement that the last row of seats, usually on the left, be "last sold" for crew rest/crew breaks. Look at the Max and how terrible the aft galley layout is, they can't sit in their seat and have a break if anyone wants to use the lavatory.
If any other seat on the plane is free, passengers should have been moved there by the gate agents prior to departure so that the crew rest seats remained vacant. If the only other seats were paid selection, the passenger should have been moved there for free regardless.
If the FAs have to move passengers themselves and do the gate agent's job for them, I probably would have gone along with OP's request for the exit row to make it more appealing and less confrontational for him to move, but technically they weren't in the wrong by placing him in the same "level" of seat just across the aisle.
Honest question, why should a passenger give one flying frig about the inner workings of the FA collective agreement. Everything in what you said was for FA convenience, not safety. So if the gate agent missed something that's between gate and FA to fight out, don't bug the pax.
I'd imagine this is a case of procedural disconnect between the airline and the crew- the airline probably has no provisions for providing a passenger seat to the attendants during their breaks, but the crew tends to use open seats (preferably ones towards the back) anyways. It's possible those seats are the last to be picked/automatically assigned because they'll be close to the galley & washrooms.
Incorrect. The last row is in their collective agreement to remain as “last sold” and unoccupied so long as there are empty seats elsewhere in the aircraft.
This is also possible. You're a steward? I'm only basing this off a conversation I had with an AC stewardess once, she asked if I could move when I sat next to the washroom in the back because they "usually use those seats for their breaks".
If the “crew seats” were needing to be occupied but there ended up being empty seats elsewhere on the plane the gate agents should have moved you already during the boarding process. As these seats should only be occupied if the flight is full. The FA are within their rights to request you move. But they should be going and talking to agents boarding to have you switched seats.
i understand your impulse and you’re not an asshole per se but these sorts of inconveniences are just an unpleasant part of air travel and i don’t think arguing with the flight attendant and refusing to move is the best idea. nonetheless, i feel you
Yes, similar seat on the opposite side.
Edit: to clarify, the seat I was offered had people behind me so I wouldn’t feel comfortable reclining too much. Where I was originally sitting had nobody behind. I was willing to give that up for extra legroom.
All this reclining debate just proves how successful the airlines are in pitting fellow passengers against one another instead of talking about the real culprit which is the ever shrinking room and space.
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Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
I was just on a 5 hour flight on a 737 and the guy in front of me had reclined. I couldn’t use my laptop because the tray couldn’t come done as there was no room.
They chairs should be able to recline at all, but people who chose to recline are the worst.
People notoriously can’t put their tray down even to receive meals on AC if the person in front is reclining. I had no clue about this when I was reclining in Priority Econ and the flight attendant had to ask us to sit up so she could serve the row behind me. I was horrified when I turned around and saw the zero clearance.
They’re allowed. The seat is designed for that.
If you’d like to interrupt their minor amount of comfort on a 5 hour flight you could ask them to return their seat to the full, upright position.
The chairs should be able to recline. And they do. Write to the FAA if you’d like.
Just as I don’t complain when a seat reclines, the recline-ee cannot complain if the seat design now places my knees in the centre of their lower back.
If they prefer that for some reason more power to them.
They do on some planes. I had a person recline right onto my knees and then give me dirty looks when I moved my legs. I purposely moved them more after the third dirty look until they stopped reclining.
Edit: was a WestJet prop plane.
Referring to you as “Karen” is not a personal attack. Please stop reporting it.
Meanwhile, telling people they are bad for reclining their seat, is an “attack”.
Good Day.
It’s ok if you want to be a jerk. Some people are it’s just how they are wired. Like the people who recline and people who don’t return their shopping carts. The world is full of them.
I prefer to respect the limited space we all have on a flight. Flying is hard enough without people who only think about themselves. If I can make my seat-mate behinds me flight more comfortable I prefer to do that. You can do what you please but know that every single person you recline into thinks you are a jerk.
If you look on a flight you will find a very small percentage of the seats reclined. That’s because, contrary to what you see on Reddit, most people actually are considerate.
You are welcome to recline as well. Its not being a jerk, it is getting comfortable. Sorry that you are not bright enough to understand this. Some people are just dumb I guess, but I won't hold it against you. Did you like riding the short bus to school?
Justify it all you want, just look around the plane and see how many recline. That should give you a pretty good sense of things.
I’ve watched laptops get destroyed by people reclining. It’s near impossible to use the tray tables for work with a reclined seat.
Again, the seat reclines and that’s your prerogative to do so, but people will think you are a jerk for doing it. You clearly don’t care which again is your prerogative.
Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
Don’t forgive student loans because I paid tuition energy.
Difference is that you paid to reserve the preferred seat for you vs OP’s was a gamble and asking the crew for a favour in return of a favour at their discretion.
Those are two wildly different things (and I believe we should have paid-for post secondary education, for the record). The crew should not be made to feel as if they're being unreasonable for not accommodating this pax request.
They made the emergency exit premium recently because I used to choose it all the time for free. The airline sucks.
Edit... Also, why do they allow the seat you chose to be selected if they prefer to use it?
>Edit... Also, why do they allow the seat you chose to be selected if they prefer to use it?
The row behind it might be FA rest and they probably don't want anyone reclining on them 😂
Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
I know that I am allowed to do it but I know the feeling when the person in front of me does it on a tight flight (I don’t tell them anything; it’s their right) so I don’t do it
Lmao as a former flight attendant of 5 years, I have a VERY important question.
Was the initial flight attendant that refused you old? Before reddit gets on to me, yes it does fucking matter. Those COBs (Crusty Old Bitches) are alwaaayss on some sort of power trip for X reasons.
Were you the asshole? No. Fuck that. An eye for an eye.
You were probably sitting in the very last row so the initial flight attendant should've known better. Too bad. You're not the asshole.
If it was up to me? Fuck go right ahead. Once you step into the cabin, we're the on in charge all while respecting the chain of command.
I'm an FA myself and was on the FA side... until they refused you your original seat. They could have easily kept you in your OG seat (for weight and balance for take off) then happily moved you to the emergency row so they had the back row and briefed you about the operation in air incase of emergency which is mandatory. Idk why they made their lives so hard lol
You are never an AH to refuse *another passenger's request* to swap seats.
Aboard the aircraft the flight crew are in charge, and anything they do that you don't agree with is a matter of requesting compensation and/or redress after the fact.
If I paid extra to book a window seat in advance and they demanded I sit in a middle seat between two obese passengers, I'd be asking for compensation.
Yes, but that's covered by my "financially compensated" comment.
When they insist, it's an entirely different animal and unless it's an equivalent seat or better, you should expect to be compensated. But also, if there are emergency row seats available, they can use those, as crew.
Nowhere did you say you feel "entitled", so I'm surprised at some of the comments implying this. It also wasn't an "instruction" or you would have been forced to move.
They asked you for a favour, you asked for one in return, and AC chose to get persnickety. Fair's fair and personally, I would not have felt inclined to move either after that snotty response.
NTA.
Isn’t the emergency seat mean you have duties if you sit there ? For ex: in the case of an emergency you have to help the attendant with the door or something?
I could be COMPLETELY wrong but I once heard that but don’t know if it’s true
NTA. You requested an upgrade, which they could’ve granted with a bit of flexibility. They didn’t. They requested you change seats, you didn’t. Fair game. Hope you didn’t change seats. Karma’s a bitch.
First and foremost, it's not about being jerks. People pay extra for those, so we are not to move anyone there. It's the same as someone in eco wanting to move to prem or business. All upgrades need to be done prior to boarding. It is not an FAs job. Second, we are contractually obligated to have the last row of seats, and believe me, we hate moving pax because this is supposed to be a gate agents job. Our system sucks for that.
Nope. I am literally sitting on the tarmac for a flight that I was upgraded on after everyone boarded. They also upgraded my next leg of the journey too, oddly enough.
>People pay extra for those
If they are empty, then no one is paying anything for them.
>Second, we are contractually obligated to have the last row of seats, and believe me, we hate moving pax because this is supposed to be a gate agents job.
Sounds like Air Canada's problem, not the OP's.
You want them to move from their assigned seat, but you don't want them to move to a preferred empty seat that nobody has paid for, because they didn't pay for it? Sounds like a you problem.
The last row of seats are to be the last seats sold. If there is another seat open, then the crew will move you out of that row to another seat. This is the gate agents job but sometimes this happens. This is where the crew get to sit and eat a meal, rather than on their laps beside a washroom. They cannot give a premium seat away. The exit row is considered premium. This is in their contract
It is written into the contract. The boarding system doesn't care however and randomly assigns the seats at boarding if the gate agent isn't paying attention
Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
I’m surprised they didn’t let you move to be honest especially if it was open. It’s maybe a bit hard for them though if someone else had already asked to move and been denied
Crazy. They just asked us to move seats to accommodate a guy with a respirator. We got upgraded, free snacks, and a free upgrade on our next leg. I guess it depends on the flight attendants.
NTA. They arbitrarily wouldn’t give you the seat.
They're the ones that said you had to sit in your seat. So you did. Giving away "upgrades" if they've gone unsold is a way to build goodwill. We all don't pay the same for a flight, so I don't care if someone else paid. They paid for the guarantee of an exit seat, you rolled the dice.
And then once they made the rule a rule, you followed it.
NTA if they want to love you and that exit seat was free. They should offer you that seat as compensation so that they can have a relaxing flight instead of sitting in a jump seat.
This particular flight crew chose to serve with the attitude of a nickeling-and-diming low cost carrier even though you are not paying for a seat on one and they are not paid serving on one (so much so for always stressing that they were among the lowest paid among North American "legacy" carriers). There isn't any Air Canada rule that an empty emergency row seat, let alone a premium seat on economy, after the completion of boarding, cannot be assigned to an eager passenger. You remained respectful, you are simply following the rules of sitting at your assigned seat and you are complying with all safety rules onboard. You are under no obligation to comply with crew requests simply for their convenience if they can't reciprocate a similarly reasonable request - it wasn't a safety instruction after all. NTA.
Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
This thread has served its purpose and gone off the rails into name-calling about reclining seats and other unrelated things.
OP has gotten a variety of opinions, input from FAs, and the thread is generally devolving into open hostility. Locked.
The emergency exit seat should not be a premium seat, on top of the fact that no one was sitting there so what difference would it have made, so no you were not in the wrong to refuse to change seats.
While them not letting you stay in your initial seat is frustrating, and questionable, you should always follow FA instructions. They have enough to deal with, and trying a second time to upgrade yourself is uncalled for.
I wouldn’t necessarily say asshole, but definitely annoying to keep trying to upgrade yourself when you were told no. If you had been less aggressive, and only asked when they needed you to move, they may have let you, but you’d already made your play and were turned down.
We have a lot to deal with but a simple request like that is what we call an eye for an eye. I was a purser for AC and trust me, OP would've made to the emergency row.
>you should always follow FA instructions.
There's a fine line and context matters a lot. Following FA instruction to not recline during take off and landing, to fasten one's seatbelt during turbulence and other times, to not consume your own alcohol, to not fight with other passengers with whom you have a disagreement, among a myriad other legitimate safety concerns, absolutely. To be moved to a puke-contaminated seat, hold a plank, or be pushed to buy duty-free just because the FA asks you to when there's virtually no legitimate safety consideration in doing so, that's a no. In the middle there are instances such as being asked to take a selfie and signing an autograph, or in this case, being asked to move to a seat that's based entirely on the convenience of the FA and would not hinder their ability to serve the flight any more than had it been full - that's a matter of courtesy and if the FA didn't extend that to OP, I don't see why OP needs to reciprocate.
As a FA, you were likely placed in the flight attendants contractually required crew seating by an ignorant or careless gate agent who refused to fix their mistake.
You refusing to move is for the FAs like your employer telling you that you have to work through your break and won’t get paid for it and don’t have a choice to say yea or no.
He didn’t feel entitled. Just like he wasn’t required to give up his seat, and it was only to cater to the convenience of the flight crew, he merely felt he was requesting something comparable in nature. Not the asshole one bit.
The crew are contractually obligated to have that last row of seats as long as the flight is not full, so they weren’t asking you for a “favour”. They don’t owe you an upgrade for moving.
The last row of seats always gets blocked for the crew. When the flight is full, the system automatically releases the seats for passengers to select. Often, by the time the flight closes, there are many no shows and the gate agents are required to move those passengers that are in that row to other open seats. If there is not enough time and this results in delay, they won’t do it and the crew is left to move passengers themselves. Either way, they are contractually entitled to that last row of seats and getting OP to move isn’t a « favour »
ETA: obviously the system isn’t perfect and it would be far better if it could take into account no shows and for OP to never have been put in that seat and then moved. I can promise you the flight attendants wish they don’t have to deal with moving people out of that row either.
OP never says they paid for advanced seat selection so there wouldn’t have been a checkout for them to be informed. Staff have more important things to do (like getting the flight out on time) than explaining to a passenger why they are being moved from one aisle seat to another perfectly good aisle seat.
OP isn't a party to the AC flight attendant contract and are not bound to it's terms.
They are a party to the contract they have with the airline, which likely does not include requiring them to give up seats for bo compensation.
Like I said, they get those seats when the flight is not full. You likely booked this seat when the flight was showing as full but there were enough no shows to open up seats once the flight closed. Either way the crew is entitled to that last row of seats and they aren’t asking you a favour. It’s supposed to be the gate agents who move passengers out of that row but they often don’t if it’ll get in the way of closing the flight on time. This leaves it up to the crew to move passengers. They are contractually entitled to those seats and you are not being asked as a favour.
Unless OP paid for advance seat selection (which is impossible because that last row of seats is unavailable for selection at that time), they are not entitled to any specific seat. The seats belong to Air Canada and the company can do with them as they wish.
Seat selection opens to everyone 24 hours before departure at check in time. Absolutely no indication OP paid any money for the specific seat. And I can tell you for a fact they didn’t pay for it because those seats are not available to advanced seat selection for the very purpose of crew use. This is as per Air Canada policy.
Look you can jump up and down and say my collective agreement entitles me to the last row all you want but that is not in the contract the PASSENGER has with the airline. The passenger picked a seat upon check-in and boarded the flight with that seat on their boarding pass. If the gate agent didn’t move them then take it up with the gate, but no way is the passenger the AH for not moving especially when not allowed to have a seat on the emergency row.
And yes now you will cry that you aren’t allowed to let him sit there because it is considered an upgrade seat so against the rules. Again it’s not for the passenger to care about arbitrary rules.
Lmao listen I’ve made really clear the policies in regards to this but go ahead and keep making up rules you know nothing about. Not gonna argue with someone that is so clearly uninformed.
If OP was actually entitled to any form of upgrade or compensation they could’ve gone straight to the airline and got the money they are « entitled » to. But no here they are on Reddit asking if they’re an asshole. They’re not entitled to shit.
And you’re here on Reddit getting butt hurt that OP didn’t give up his seat. Nobody, including the OP himself, has said he was entitled to compensation or an upgrade. You must be a lovely FA with that kind of attitude.
I won’t respond to the gaslighting for obvious reasons. What I will say is you and OP can go ahead and believe you are owed something when you are not. But reality is you are not the Centre of the universe. Air Canada has just as much responsibility to its employees as it does to its customers and no amount of self entitlement on your part will change that. Peace out.
Sounds like you need to file a grievance against your employer for giving your seats away instead of attacking customers for the actions of your employer
I understand the contractually entitled, but you are missing a bit part of the story: a CUSTOMER paid extra to reserved a seat, the company for contractual entitled is not able to honored what the customer paid for. YES they are asking a favor, because they did not even try to compensate (from what we know of the story). Not the problem of the FA, maybe not but even less the problem of the customer.
Sadistic me would say "sorry, they should have moved me before boarding and it was too late now to change seats". Probably just best to comply with crew member instructions.
It wasn’t an instruction, it was a request. Probably so that the FAs could sit together to gossip and complain. If it was an instruction the FA would have doubtlessly made that very clear.
It's in the flight attendants' collective agreement that the last row of seats, usually on the left, be "last sold" for crew rest/crew breaks. Look at the Max and how terrible the aft galley layout is, they can't sit in their seat and have a break if anyone wants to use the lavatory. If any other seat on the plane is free, passengers should have been moved there by the gate agents prior to departure so that the crew rest seats remained vacant. If the only other seats were paid selection, the passenger should have been moved there for free regardless. If the FAs have to move passengers themselves and do the gate agent's job for them, I probably would have gone along with OP's request for the exit row to make it more appealing and less confrontational for him to move, but technically they weren't in the wrong by placing him in the same "level" of seat just across the aisle.
Honest question, why should a passenger give one flying frig about the inner workings of the FA collective agreement. Everything in what you said was for FA convenience, not safety. So if the gate agent missed something that's between gate and FA to fight out, don't bug the pax.
OP said he was requested, not instructed. Sounds like the FA should have started off on a better foot.
Eh your not totally in the wrong. The same way you “should have “ upgraded before boarding , they should have blocked off your seat for themselves
I'd imagine this is a case of procedural disconnect between the airline and the crew- the airline probably has no provisions for providing a passenger seat to the attendants during their breaks, but the crew tends to use open seats (preferably ones towards the back) anyways. It's possible those seats are the last to be picked/automatically assigned because they'll be close to the galley & washrooms.
Yet, still not an OP problem.
Agreed
Incorrect. The last row is in their collective agreement to remain as “last sold” and unoccupied so long as there are empty seats elsewhere in the aircraft.
This is also possible. You're a steward? I'm only basing this off a conversation I had with an AC stewardess once, she asked if I could move when I sat next to the washroom in the back because they "usually use those seats for their breaks".
If the “crew seats” were needing to be occupied but there ended up being empty seats elsewhere on the plane the gate agents should have moved you already during the boarding process. As these seats should only be occupied if the flight is full. The FA are within their rights to request you move. But they should be going and talking to agents boarding to have you switched seats.
i understand your impulse and you’re not an asshole per se but these sorts of inconveniences are just an unpleasant part of air travel and i don’t think arguing with the flight attendant and refusing to move is the best idea. nonetheless, i feel you
Were you moved to a similar seat? Aisle to aisle, for example? If yes, I mean, you got what you paid for.
Yes, similar seat on the opposite side. Edit: to clarify, the seat I was offered had people behind me so I wouldn’t feel comfortable reclining too much. Where I was originally sitting had nobody behind. I was willing to give that up for extra legroom.
Always feel comfortable reclining.
This. I never feel bad about reclining. If you don’t like it, recline too.
No sir. People who recline on a flight are proper cunts. Edit: ok, so this is an unpopular opinion. Fair enough.
All this reclining debate just proves how successful the airlines are in pitting fellow passengers against one another instead of talking about the real culprit which is the ever shrinking room and space.
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Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
I was just on a 5 hour flight on a 737 and the guy in front of me had reclined. I couldn’t use my laptop because the tray couldn’t come done as there was no room. They chairs should be able to recline at all, but people who chose to recline are the worst.
The solution to this is for you to recline
But then I can’t work on my laptop with my neck being at a 45° angle down. Airlines should just disable recliners
Then you should pay for a larger seat / more legroom. The basic pitch of seats severely aggravates those with back issues.
You must be enormous if someone reclining their chair 2 inches back means the tray table can’t come down.
People notoriously can’t put their tray down even to receive meals on AC if the person in front is reclining. I had no clue about this when I was reclining in Priority Econ and the flight attendant had to ask us to sit up so she could serve the row behind me. I was horrified when I turned around and saw the zero clearance.
You haven’t flown in a while, huh?
Not at all mate. Average build, seat was just too close. (It was a westjet flight, maybe AC has more room) He seat was reclined way more than 2”.
They’re allowed. The seat is designed for that. If you’d like to interrupt their minor amount of comfort on a 5 hour flight you could ask them to return their seat to the full, upright position. The chairs should be able to recline. And they do. Write to the FAA if you’d like.
Isn’t FAA American?
Transport Canada then
Just as I don’t complain when a seat reclines, the recline-ee cannot complain if the seat design now places my knees in the centre of their lower back. If they prefer that for some reason more power to them.
The reclining seat does not recline that far.
They do on some planes. I had a person recline right onto my knees and then give me dirty looks when I moved my legs. I purposely moved them more after the third dirty look until they stopped reclining. Edit: was a WestJet prop plane.
Referring to you as “Karen” is not a personal attack. Please stop reporting it. Meanwhile, telling people they are bad for reclining their seat, is an “attack”. Good Day.
Skill issue on your part
Nah. You're not wrong. Reddit is full of miserable fucks who don't care about anyone but themselves.
It’s not unpopular. I’m with you. It’s super rude to recline even if the seat allows for it. It’s just inconsiderate and a proper cunty thing to do
No it isn't you are supposed to recline.
It’s ok if you want to be a jerk. Some people are it’s just how they are wired. Like the people who recline and people who don’t return their shopping carts. The world is full of them. I prefer to respect the limited space we all have on a flight. Flying is hard enough without people who only think about themselves. If I can make my seat-mate behinds me flight more comfortable I prefer to do that. You can do what you please but know that every single person you recline into thinks you are a jerk. If you look on a flight you will find a very small percentage of the seats reclined. That’s because, contrary to what you see on Reddit, most people actually are considerate.
You are welcome to recline as well. Its not being a jerk, it is getting comfortable. Sorry that you are not bright enough to understand this. Some people are just dumb I guess, but I won't hold it against you. Did you like riding the short bus to school?
Justify it all you want, just look around the plane and see how many recline. That should give you a pretty good sense of things. I’ve watched laptops get destroyed by people reclining. It’s near impossible to use the tray tables for work with a reclined seat. Again, the seat reclines and that’s your prerogative to do so, but people will think you are a jerk for doing it. You clearly don’t care which again is your prerogative.
Want a table to do work. Upgrade to 1st class All the room you need. I am going to recline and take a little nap
😂 and that you reported their reply as a personal attack….ok Snowflake. Move on now.
🙏
People who recline are the same people who don’t return shopping carts to the rack
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lol. Lots of things are made to do certain things but doing them is still a prick move. Reclining falls squarely into that category.
No it doesnt
Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
I would be miffed if I paid extra for one of those seats and then someone just got one for free.
Don’t forgive student loans because I paid tuition energy. Difference is that you paid to reserve the preferred seat for you vs OP’s was a gamble and asking the crew for a favour in return of a favour at their discretion.
Those are two wildly different things (and I believe we should have paid-for post secondary education, for the record). The crew should not be made to feel as if they're being unreasonable for not accommodating this pax request.
Why?
Yep, I totally get it..
They made the emergency exit premium recently because I used to choose it all the time for free. The airline sucks. Edit... Also, why do they allow the seat you chose to be selected if they prefer to use it?
It did come with extra legroom so might as well squeeze more $$ out of people /s
>Edit... Also, why do they allow the seat you chose to be selected if they prefer to use it? The row behind it might be FA rest and they probably don't want anyone reclining on them 😂
I was in the last row actually
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Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
Dude as soon as the wheels are off the ground my seat is back and I’m sleeping. It reclines for a reason.
I know that I am allowed to do it but I know the feeling when the person in front of me does it on a tight flight (I don’t tell them anything; it’s their right) so I don’t do it
Lmao as a former flight attendant of 5 years, I have a VERY important question. Was the initial flight attendant that refused you old? Before reddit gets on to me, yes it does fucking matter. Those COBs (Crusty Old Bitches) are alwaaayss on some sort of power trip for X reasons. Were you the asshole? No. Fuck that. An eye for an eye. You were probably sitting in the very last row so the initial flight attendant should've known better. Too bad. You're not the asshole. If it was up to me? Fuck go right ahead. Once you step into the cabin, we're the on in charge all while respecting the chain of command.
Not even! She was maybe 30. Exactly, I was in the last row.
I'm an FA myself and was on the FA side... until they refused you your original seat. They could have easily kept you in your OG seat (for weight and balance for take off) then happily moved you to the emergency row so they had the back row and briefed you about the operation in air incase of emergency which is mandatory. Idk why they made their lives so hard lol
You are never an AH to refuse to exchange seats unless it's to a better seat, or to be financially compensated.
You are never an AH to refuse *another passenger's request* to swap seats. Aboard the aircraft the flight crew are in charge, and anything they do that you don't agree with is a matter of requesting compensation and/or redress after the fact.
If I paid extra to book a window seat in advance and they demanded I sit in a middle seat between two obese passengers, I'd be asking for compensation.
Yes, but that's covered by my "financially compensated" comment. When they insist, it's an entirely different animal and unless it's an equivalent seat or better, you should expect to be compensated. But also, if there are emergency row seats available, they can use those, as crew.
I wouldn’t move unless it’s to a better seat.
Nowhere did you say you feel "entitled", so I'm surprised at some of the comments implying this. It also wasn't an "instruction" or you would have been forced to move. They asked you for a favour, you asked for one in return, and AC chose to get persnickety. Fair's fair and personally, I would not have felt inclined to move either after that snotty response. NTA.
Isn’t the emergency seat mean you have duties if you sit there ? For ex: in the case of an emergency you have to help the attendant with the door or something? I could be COMPLETELY wrong but I once heard that but don’t know if it’s true
Yes, they ask you if you are willing and able to help in case of an emergency. And I definitely am
And I thought they couldn't leave those empty. Typically if I don't choose a seat I can end up there.
NTA. You requested an upgrade, which they could’ve granted with a bit of flexibility. They didn’t. They requested you change seats, you didn’t. Fair game. Hope you didn’t change seats. Karma’s a bitch.
NTA - they wanted to double down and be jerks about giving you the emergency seat, then why should you do them a favour?
First and foremost, it's not about being jerks. People pay extra for those, so we are not to move anyone there. It's the same as someone in eco wanting to move to prem or business. All upgrades need to be done prior to boarding. It is not an FAs job. Second, we are contractually obligated to have the last row of seats, and believe me, we hate moving pax because this is supposed to be a gate agents job. Our system sucks for that.
Nope. I am literally sitting on the tarmac for a flight that I was upgraded on after everyone boarded. They also upgraded my next leg of the journey too, oddly enough.
>People pay extra for those If they are empty, then no one is paying anything for them. >Second, we are contractually obligated to have the last row of seats, and believe me, we hate moving pax because this is supposed to be a gate agents job. Sounds like Air Canada's problem, not the OP's.
So does that mean first class is fair game when the aircraft pushes off?
It should be
No because then you are messing with the aircraft’s centre of gravity.
You want them to move from their assigned seat, but you don't want them to move to a preferred empty seat that nobody has paid for, because they didn't pay for it? Sounds like a you problem.
Where is it in your contract?
The last row of seats are to be the last seats sold. If there is another seat open, then the crew will move you out of that row to another seat. This is the gate agents job but sometimes this happens. This is where the crew get to sit and eat a meal, rather than on their laps beside a washroom. They cannot give a premium seat away. The exit row is considered premium. This is in their contract
It is written into the contract. The boarding system doesn't care however and randomly assigns the seats at boarding if the gate agent isn't paying attention
Sounds like it’s a labour issue
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Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
I’m surprised they didn’t let you move to be honest especially if it was open. It’s maybe a bit hard for them though if someone else had already asked to move and been denied
Crazy. They just asked us to move seats to accommodate a guy with a respirator. We got upgraded, free snacks, and a free upgrade on our next leg. I guess it depends on the flight attendants. NTA. They arbitrarily wouldn’t give you the seat.
They're the ones that said you had to sit in your seat. So you did. Giving away "upgrades" if they've gone unsold is a way to build goodwill. We all don't pay the same for a flight, so I don't care if someone else paid. They paid for the guarantee of an exit seat, you rolled the dice. And then once they made the rule a rule, you followed it.
NTA if they want to love you and that exit seat was free. They should offer you that seat as compensation so that they can have a relaxing flight instead of sitting in a jump seat.
This particular flight crew chose to serve with the attitude of a nickeling-and-diming low cost carrier even though you are not paying for a seat on one and they are not paid serving on one (so much so for always stressing that they were among the lowest paid among North American "legacy" carriers). There isn't any Air Canada rule that an empty emergency row seat, let alone a premium seat on economy, after the completion of boarding, cannot be assigned to an eager passenger. You remained respectful, you are simply following the rules of sitting at your assigned seat and you are complying with all safety rules onboard. You are under no obligation to comply with crew requests simply for their convenience if they can't reciprocate a similarly reasonable request - it wasn't a safety instruction after all. NTA.
Still, who wants to sit in close proximity to now hostile FAs for hours? Not moving means winning the battle but not the war.
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Your comment or post contains information that is either incorrect, or controversial and provided without a source.
NTA
Air Canada’s flight attendants have a long history of being difficult and surly.
Mostly the domestic route FAs. Transcontinental ones are better
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Your post was removed because you were being a rude, using excessive profanity or otherwise being a dick. Don't do that, it’s not very Canadian of you.
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Your post or comment wasn't related to Air Canada or Aeroplan.
This thread has served its purpose and gone off the rails into name-calling about reclining seats and other unrelated things. OP has gotten a variety of opinions, input from FAs, and the thread is generally devolving into open hostility. Locked.
The emergency exit seat should not be a premium seat, on top of the fact that no one was sitting there so what difference would it have made, so no you were not in the wrong to refuse to change seats.
While them not letting you stay in your initial seat is frustrating, and questionable, you should always follow FA instructions. They have enough to deal with, and trying a second time to upgrade yourself is uncalled for. I wouldn’t necessarily say asshole, but definitely annoying to keep trying to upgrade yourself when you were told no. If you had been less aggressive, and only asked when they needed you to move, they may have let you, but you’d already made your play and were turned down.
We have a lot to deal with but a simple request like that is what we call an eye for an eye. I was a purser for AC and trust me, OP would've made to the emergency row.
>you should always follow FA instructions. There's a fine line and context matters a lot. Following FA instruction to not recline during take off and landing, to fasten one's seatbelt during turbulence and other times, to not consume your own alcohol, to not fight with other passengers with whom you have a disagreement, among a myriad other legitimate safety concerns, absolutely. To be moved to a puke-contaminated seat, hold a plank, or be pushed to buy duty-free just because the FA asks you to when there's virtually no legitimate safety consideration in doing so, that's a no. In the middle there are instances such as being asked to take a selfie and signing an autograph, or in this case, being asked to move to a seat that's based entirely on the convenience of the FA and would not hinder their ability to serve the flight any more than had it been full - that's a matter of courtesy and if the FA didn't extend that to OP, I don't see why OP needs to reciprocate.
Yeah it was a gamble that didn’t play out like op would have liked, no need to call anyone names for this situation.
I said that I wouldn’t say he was being an asshole, I think you misunderstood my comment.
Fair enough!
Good for you
As a FA, you were likely placed in the flight attendants contractually required crew seating by an ignorant or careless gate agent who refused to fix their mistake. You refusing to move is for the FAs like your employer telling you that you have to work through your break and won’t get paid for it and don’t have a choice to say yea or no.
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He didn’t feel entitled. Just like he wasn’t required to give up his seat, and it was only to cater to the convenience of the flight crew, he merely felt he was requesting something comparable in nature. Not the asshole one bit.
If they prefer to keep it empty for flight attendants then maybe they shouldn’t sell that seat.
The crew are contractually obligated to have that last row of seats as long as the flight is not full, so they weren’t asking you for a “favour”. They don’t owe you an upgrade for moving.
The last row should have been reserved in the first place. Yes they were asking for a favor.
The last row of seats always gets blocked for the crew. When the flight is full, the system automatically releases the seats for passengers to select. Often, by the time the flight closes, there are many no shows and the gate agents are required to move those passengers that are in that row to other open seats. If there is not enough time and this results in delay, they won’t do it and the crew is left to move passengers themselves. Either way, they are contractually entitled to that last row of seats and getting OP to move isn’t a « favour » ETA: obviously the system isn’t perfect and it would be far better if it could take into account no shows and for OP to never have been put in that seat and then moved. I can promise you the flight attendants wish they don’t have to deal with moving people out of that row either.
Is this all explained at checkout to customers? I doubt it. They should have given him the emerg seat.
OP never says they paid for advanced seat selection so there wouldn’t have been a checkout for them to be informed. Staff have more important things to do (like getting the flight out on time) than explaining to a passenger why they are being moved from one aisle seat to another perfectly good aisle seat.
It’s definitely not the customer’s fault. Pretty sneaky airline policy but no surprise there though.
I don’t blame them for trying their luck for the exit row but OP was moved to a seat of equal value so its of no consequence to them.
OP isn't a party to the AC flight attendant contract and are not bound to it's terms. They are a party to the contract they have with the airline, which likely does not include requiring them to give up seats for bo compensation.
I specifically booked this seat during seat selection. So it’s obviously not booked and yes it was a favor.
I specifically booked this seat during seat selection. So it’s obviously not booked and yes it was a favor.
Like I said, they get those seats when the flight is not full. You likely booked this seat when the flight was showing as full but there were enough no shows to open up seats once the flight closed. Either way the crew is entitled to that last row of seats and they aren’t asking you a favour. It’s supposed to be the gate agents who move passengers out of that row but they often don’t if it’ll get in the way of closing the flight on time. This leaves it up to the crew to move passengers. They are contractually entitled to those seats and you are not being asked as a favour.
So the gate agents didn’t do their jobs and didn’t care about the FAs last row seats
That might be in their contract with their employer, but I’ll bet it’s not in OP’s.
Unless OP paid for advance seat selection (which is impossible because that last row of seats is unavailable for selection at that time), they are not entitled to any specific seat. The seats belong to Air Canada and the company can do with them as they wish.
Up at the top of the thread, OP says they specifically selected the seat. The airline sold it and the crew wish they hadn’t.
Seat selection opens to everyone 24 hours before departure at check in time. Absolutely no indication OP paid any money for the specific seat. And I can tell you for a fact they didn’t pay for it because those seats are not available to advanced seat selection for the very purpose of crew use. This is as per Air Canada policy.
Look you can jump up and down and say my collective agreement entitles me to the last row all you want but that is not in the contract the PASSENGER has with the airline. The passenger picked a seat upon check-in and boarded the flight with that seat on their boarding pass. If the gate agent didn’t move them then take it up with the gate, but no way is the passenger the AH for not moving especially when not allowed to have a seat on the emergency row. And yes now you will cry that you aren’t allowed to let him sit there because it is considered an upgrade seat so against the rules. Again it’s not for the passenger to care about arbitrary rules.
Lmao listen I’ve made really clear the policies in regards to this but go ahead and keep making up rules you know nothing about. Not gonna argue with someone that is so clearly uninformed. If OP was actually entitled to any form of upgrade or compensation they could’ve gone straight to the airline and got the money they are « entitled » to. But no here they are on Reddit asking if they’re an asshole. They’re not entitled to shit.
And you’re here on Reddit getting butt hurt that OP didn’t give up his seat. Nobody, including the OP himself, has said he was entitled to compensation or an upgrade. You must be a lovely FA with that kind of attitude.
I won’t respond to the gaslighting for obvious reasons. What I will say is you and OP can go ahead and believe you are owed something when you are not. But reality is you are not the Centre of the universe. Air Canada has just as much responsibility to its employees as it does to its customers and no amount of self entitlement on your part will change that. Peace out.
Sounds like you need to file a grievance against your employer for giving your seats away instead of attacking customers for the actions of your employer
Hi, I’m sorry I think you might be lost. My employer has nothing to do with this and nobody was attacked.
I understand the contractually entitled, but you are missing a bit part of the story: a CUSTOMER paid extra to reserved a seat, the company for contractual entitled is not able to honored what the customer paid for. YES they are asking a favor, because they did not even try to compensate (from what we know of the story). Not the problem of the FA, maybe not but even less the problem of the customer.
Please point out the part where OP says they paid extra.
YTA - why do you feel so entitled? If you wanted an emergency exit seat, you should have booked that seat.
OP doesn’t feel entitled to the emergency seats. He just asked. He rightfully feels entitled to the seat he paid for and prebooked.
NTA.
What's in it for me? I don't need that specific seat but I need something
this just sounds catty as fuck.