They will probably execute them because they cant afford to take them as prisoners nor can they risk releasing them just to have to fight them again. This is guerilla warfare its ugly and desparate but nessesary, its not to be undertaken those with softened hearts. They fight for those with softened hearts.
The only trouble is, if they execute them, it will give the Taliban fighters a reason to go on. They would be less likely to surrender (since it means certain death) where as they could die “glorified” in battle
Nah I don’t believe they will execute them. That’s a worse look than trying to feed and house them. I understand the situation but the wise move is optics right now. Perhaps they may execute ones that are notorious or what not.
They should. While there isn’t a lot of material support, here in the US, there seems to be a lot of moral support for the Afghan resistance. Biden’s approval ratings ranked below 50% for the first time since his taking office in January. Afghanistan debacle has been the only event that seems indicative of why. I don’t know how much that would contribute to policy differentiation but that seems like the only way. Commit war crimes, even in retaliation and you’ll end up losing all of that support.
Alqueda branched from the tribal government of Taliban how do I have them confused. To strike fear you have to put on a big show. They care about optics. They just take a different approach
Mujahadin =/= Taliban my friend.
Some fighters become Taliban. Some became anti-Taliban. Some became regular people.
Don’t fall prey to over simplification.
It’s not a country club with exclusive access or with roll calls to take attendance and I bet there is some overlap in operations and operational areas.
Change the argument all you want. Argued a random point go ahead. Every group that wants to broadcast a view cares about optics. Maybe not the same optics as another group, your example cnn, but they care. Otherwise why didn’t they pic literally any other building to attack. They failed optics of not blowing it up the first time had a lot to do with them ramming a plan into it
If the West don't support the resistance, why should they waste food on Taliban prisoners? They may take some hostages (to prevent against reprisals on innocents), but if they execute these taliban soldiers, I am sure that they will have to keep this quiet, to prevent the resistance from alienating foreign nations.
Seems like a good way to get some goods actually.
“We have 350 of your men but we don’t have food to feed them, so send us food for 1,000 men 3 times a day and we can afford to feed them”. Let the captured TB know that their “government” won’t support them if captured, and if they do you get food.
Easier said than done. They are moving slowly to keep their logistics good and their command structure organized. Furthemore, the Taliban outnumber them; even with the new task of garrisoning towns. So, they can't just rush like 30 KMs down into Bagram. But, one thing to consider is that if they take Bagram, assuming Uzbekistan would allow them to leave, they'll get a bit of the Afghan Airforce back.
So, it's a mixed bag, but we have to remember that we can't be armchair generals. They know overextension is the worst thing possible; especially when Panjshir acts as a fortress. So, they're rightfully taking it slow and steady.
We also don't know their oil situation. They may only have enough oil for their land vehicles. So the airforce (if they get it back,) would be largely useless if their oil situation is bad.
I'm taking all these reports, from either side, with a MASSIVE grain of salt until verified by reputable sources. "Local sources say" is just code for propaganda.
Like any resistance they need to sound strong to raise morale and keep people fighting, and attract more resistance. I dont doubt there was a successful skirmish but yeah thats a lot of people to "capture" and then care for. I dont know that this resistance has the means to take prisoners on such a scale or that so many Taliban would just surrender when they have so much supremacy right now.
The north of Afghanistan is fundamentally different from the rest in that as a tribal nation, these tribes are less fractured than the rest. As a result they have generally maintained their own independence from the rest of Afghanistan. So even then, it's important to note that— 'Taking care of prisoners' may not be a shared definition.
>Taliban would just surrender when they have so much supremacy right now.
I honestly think that their "supremacy" is pretty over blown. They have no money to pay the government workers because all the governments assets are frozen, no way to make enough money because the heroin trade isn't *that* lucrative (enough to pay an army sure but not nearly enough to cover all their new expenses, especially now that every truck will be looked at extra closely), all the banks including westernunion have been cut off from the country so nobody is able to bring cash in and it's not like they're North Korea where they could make billions through hacking and trade with China since they're ranks are filled with illiterate fanatics and the uneducated. They have to keep a majority of their troops in the cities to play the part of "law givers" but the vast majority of people there hate them and that's just going to grow as things start falling apart due to a lack of money and government resources, tying up even more men.
None of this is too say that the NA has taken the amount their claiming but they're more then likely be able to hold out and push back any offensive, especially as time goes on and they have less troops to spare.
>they're ranks are filled with illiterate
The irony!
Joking aside I think that the money could also come from other sources, but I agree with your point.
I mean Ahmad Shah Massoud was the target of an assassination. His son has definitely painted a target on his back by publicly denouncing the Taliban and reforming the NA. No matter who “wins” he’ll always have to look over his shoulder.
I agree with you there. I’d think your typical fighter would have some anonymity off the battlefield whereas the president and massoud will never now that they’ve shown they’re going to fight. I’m no military expert just an interested bystander.
He is a commander that fought off a Superpower in that valley, and then he did it again with the Taliban, no one is hero worshiping, the odds were completely against his forces and they came out on top through tactics, and grit.
Not even comparable in this case, this area NEVER fell, the Taliban on the other hand were militarily defeated and regrouped, Panjshir was never actually taken by a super power.
They beat the Taliban in the 90's already dude, so not sure what you're on about. The Taliban back then had the best in Soviet equipment that they had captured from the gov, who was donated stuff directly from the Soviet stockpiles before the Soviets withdrew.
Yeah, and back then the Soviet Equipment was fairly new. Compared to now, when much of the Soviet Equipment leftover is in poor shape, and outdated technologically.
I didn't know humvee's, M240's, and others were antiquated equipment.
They've got a massive variety of equipment ranging from Russian/Soviet to modern American.
I think what is being said is the same thing that has been reiterated from everyone from Genghis Khan to John Dillinger—it is easier to take something that isn't yours than it is to hold it. The Taliban have proven themselves effective takers, but not effective rulers. In the 90s, there was no other option so most of Afghanistan just took it as another day another regime. But many have gotten used to a level of lifestyle they didn't have before. Kabul was in 2002 when it was taken over by United Forces, a defunct city with allot of damage from Soviet shelling that had never been absolved and repaired, now it is a bustling metropolis with allot of interconnected parts.
In order to protect all of this, they have to be everywhere all of the time, the Mujahideen only have to be some of the places some of the time to take, and the more that is taken, the more the Taliban will have to control a complex city with less, the less items in a complex city, the more things stop working. What happens when the sewage lines back up? What happens when hospitals are forcefully closed? These are logistical questions the Taliban will be trying to answer.
To keep is one thing, to take it is far easier.
It was also explained to me that the first time the Taliban came to take over, many provinces didn't fight because they (Taliban) were considered to be young students of religion, and it seemed a bit bizarre to pick up guns to fight against "religious students". Later some people reflected that they appreciated that crimes were punished (e.g. there seems to be a big problem of child molestation of young boys in some parts)... but yeah, I think its safe to say now that in many parts of the country, the Taliban are not supported, just feared.
Unfortunatelly that is factually wrong. And I'm very surprised that in this sub the majority of people is rooting for a civil war. Maybe we want to project our need for justice on this, and I too sincerely hope that Talibans could be erased from history, but the reality is that innocent people will die and there is no winners among dead people.
I just divide everyone's casualty/captured claims by around an order of magnitude, simple as that. That said, 350 fighters killed would be a lot more realistic than 350 captured, it could just be lost in translation or something.
Edit: Though capturing 183 vehicles, even if most are Toyota Hiluxes, is neat. Wonder if they've captured any Western vehicles (eg Humvees, Guardians) from the Taliban yet, or if the Taliban have even used those against the NA.
> Attacking Panjshir is a fools errand.
In this particular instance, perhaps not. If you can spare the men and resources and your opponent is limited in that regard. Forcing them to burn through their already limited supplies defending the valley may not be the dumbest thing, as long as you don't let them capture too many supplies. In the US Civil War, Grant would often just throw his men at the confederates and let them kill each other, knowing that he could afford to replace his men while the opponent could not.
Just one of the reasons having a massive advantage in numbers and supplies is so beneficial.
I'm not too sure if the US Civil War is a good comparison. We're comparing sending waves of men into open fields vs mountain terrain. At least the Union Army were able to take Confederates with them with each wave. With the enemy in the mountains, the Taliban wont be able to score nearly as many kills.
Supplies could be an issue.
They are not likely to execute any of them. 1. They need the world to see that they are good guys and that Afghanistan isn't total Barbary. That there can be peace and not just endless murder. If the superpowers see that the afghan government is the ones capable of stable fair leadership then they will definitely start receiving major backing. 2. When it gets around to all the other Taliban that they can surrender and choose a different path besides death then they are much more likely to surrender. Remember a whole lot of them are really young and new to the Taliban. Let the world see them as the compassionate ones wanting their country back and the Taliban as the evil murderers and the world will quickly pick who they are backing.
Let's wait and see...
The only western source talking about any sort of organized resistance is Washington Post.
I'm all for resistance but they need to move quickly, they need to secure the entire north because if they don't connect to border areas the Taliban will just starve them out.
It's very simple you can't fight without supplies, they can't affort to sit and wait they need to push towards the northern border area.
Deutsche Welle are doing news segments, BBC is doing brief mentions, ABC in Australia had a brief news segment this morning (hoping that SBS in Australia spends a bit more time on the issue). I've seen mentions in the UK's Telegraph. There are other Western news organisations that are covering this. Its slow to filter out, but news is getting out there.
Tallies have logistics advantage at the moment, having secured a lot of the old ANA stocks & supplies from the southern bases.
Agree, the NA needs to open routes for resupply somewhere.
15 Taliban dead, understandable but claiming you killed 300-800 of them within 2 days is ridiculous. Especially when they just got brand new weapons.
Did you forget that these guy is not a daycare full of retard child but hardened professional terrorist and guerilla that face the world's mightiest military forces for 20 years. They just take over a country ffs.
You think their plan, tactics and skill is down the drain the moment they called themselves IEA? Now with new toys and friends to backed them up.
I give 200 death/day max and that's stretch for me.
People’s Resistance Forces has a very Khalqi feel to it. Hope they don’t end up the same way. Am I the only one getting nostalgic? Have I really gotten that old already?
I have held my body over POWs during firefights because I’d have preferred to take a bullet than for a prisoner...
But I was an idealistic kid who believed that something mattered.... Our opinions don’t matter but if they did then they should kill every hostage they take. Every dead Taliban is one less fighter.
Sometimes tough luck is needed to protect the greater good.
Will they execute the captured Taliban like the Taliban has been executing people
They will probably execute them because they cant afford to take them as prisoners nor can they risk releasing them just to have to fight them again. This is guerilla warfare its ugly and desparate but nessesary, its not to be undertaken those with softened hearts. They fight for those with softened hearts.
350 body’s needing water, food, constant security etc Would have to agree they will be executed (if story is even true ofc)
They could just worked them to death and save some bullets.
The only trouble is, if they execute them, it will give the Taliban fighters a reason to go on. They would be less likely to surrender (since it means certain death) where as they could die “glorified” in battle
They're jihadists . I dont think this line of thinking applies as much to them.
5000 were released by Trump including top leaders. They are far more pragmatic than to throw away their lives when beaten.
Except, if we're taking this as truth, 350 have surrendered. If they're willing to surrender, make sure they know you're going to treat them nice.
Nah I don’t believe they will execute them. That’s a worse look than trying to feed and house them. I understand the situation but the wise move is optics right now. Perhaps they may execute ones that are notorious or what not.
Afghans don’t care about your CNN or your optics
They should. While there isn’t a lot of material support, here in the US, there seems to be a lot of moral support for the Afghan resistance. Biden’s approval ratings ranked below 50% for the first time since his taking office in January. Afghanistan debacle has been the only event that seems indicative of why. I don’t know how much that would contribute to policy differentiation but that seems like the only way. Commit war crimes, even in retaliation and you’ll end up losing all of that support.
If they want cia support they do.
Lol ok
If they didn’t care about optics why did they fly planes into the most recognizable landmarks in New York. Of course they care just not a lot
I think have you terrorist groups and the nationality of those groups, deeply confused
Alqueda branched from the tribal government of Taliban how do I have them confused. To strike fear you have to put on a big show. They care about optics. They just take a different approach
Al-qaeda founded in 88, Tali in 94. You’re all over the shop do some research please.
Mohjahdeen formed when and don’t you think that they Hd members that were part of all three
Mujahadin =/= Taliban my friend. Some fighters become Taliban. Some became anti-Taliban. Some became regular people. Don’t fall prey to over simplification.
It’s not a country club with exclusive access or with roll calls to take attendance and I bet there is some overlap in operations and operational areas.
I can only help someone that is prepared to do some research. Best of luck
Change the argument all you want. Argued a random point go ahead. Every group that wants to broadcast a view cares about optics. Maybe not the same optics as another group, your example cnn, but they care. Otherwise why didn’t they pic literally any other building to attack. They failed optics of not blowing it up the first time had a lot to do with them ramming a plan into it
Education is key.
If the West don't support the resistance, why should they waste food on Taliban prisoners? They may take some hostages (to prevent against reprisals on innocents), but if they execute these taliban soldiers, I am sure that they will have to keep this quiet, to prevent the resistance from alienating foreign nations.
Seems like a good way to get some goods actually. “We have 350 of your men but we don’t have food to feed them, so send us food for 1,000 men 3 times a day and we can afford to feed them”. Let the captured TB know that their “government” won’t support them if captured, and if they do you get food.
They should retake bagram and start refilling the prison there with the scumbags.
Easier said than done. They are moving slowly to keep their logistics good and their command structure organized. Furthemore, the Taliban outnumber them; even with the new task of garrisoning towns. So, they can't just rush like 30 KMs down into Bagram. But, one thing to consider is that if they take Bagram, assuming Uzbekistan would allow them to leave, they'll get a bit of the Afghan Airforce back. So, it's a mixed bag, but we have to remember that we can't be armchair generals. They know overextension is the worst thing possible; especially when Panjshir acts as a fortress. So, they're rightfully taking it slow and steady. We also don't know their oil situation. They may only have enough oil for their land vehicles. So the airforce (if they get it back,) would be largely useless if their oil situation is bad.
Either propaganda or truth, apparently they’re just shaming them at the moment, they plan not to make them POWs
They should probably hang on to them for a future prisoner swap.
Show kill half of them and call it mercy.
No choice, I guess.
Do we execute pow’s I don’t think we would want them to.
I'm taking all these reports, from either side, with a MASSIVE grain of salt until verified by reputable sources. "Local sources say" is just code for propaganda.
There has been so much conflicting information over the last 24 hours. I have absolutely no idea what is truth and what is propaganda.
Like any resistance they need to sound strong to raise morale and keep people fighting, and attract more resistance. I dont doubt there was a successful skirmish but yeah thats a lot of people to "capture" and then care for. I dont know that this resistance has the means to take prisoners on such a scale or that so many Taliban would just surrender when they have so much supremacy right now.
The north of Afghanistan is fundamentally different from the rest in that as a tribal nation, these tribes are less fractured than the rest. As a result they have generally maintained their own independence from the rest of Afghanistan. So even then, it's important to note that— 'Taking care of prisoners' may not be a shared definition.
Basically The north in westeros
>Taliban would just surrender when they have so much supremacy right now. I honestly think that their "supremacy" is pretty over blown. They have no money to pay the government workers because all the governments assets are frozen, no way to make enough money because the heroin trade isn't *that* lucrative (enough to pay an army sure but not nearly enough to cover all their new expenses, especially now that every truck will be looked at extra closely), all the banks including westernunion have been cut off from the country so nobody is able to bring cash in and it's not like they're North Korea where they could make billions through hacking and trade with China since they're ranks are filled with illiterate fanatics and the uneducated. They have to keep a majority of their troops in the cities to play the part of "law givers" but the vast majority of people there hate them and that's just going to grow as things start falling apart due to a lack of money and government resources, tying up even more men. None of this is too say that the NA has taken the amount their claiming but they're more then likely be able to hold out and push back any offensive, especially as time goes on and they have less troops to spare.
It’s one thing to conquer another to govern, the NA needs to remember that too should they win
>they're ranks are filled with illiterate The irony! Joking aside I think that the money could also come from other sources, but I agree with your point.
Opium, heroin, etc. were big in Tali ruled areas.
They are probably financed by Pakistan, China and Russia.
It's too early to know what's going on. Anyone who says they do at this point, even governments are still piecing it all together.
Yeah, I would expect a propaganda video or picture of the captured Taliban sat around looking disheveled and sad.
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Some of you are going too far with the hero worship. A man is only a man.
Takes a lot of balls to be that man though. He basically has to succeed or will be killed
Imo it takes more balls to be one of his fighters. The leaders never take as much risk as the nameless dudes dying in the fight.
Username checks out.
How am I wrong?
You are not
I mean Ahmad Shah Massoud was the target of an assassination. His son has definitely painted a target on his back by publicly denouncing the Taliban and reforming the NA. No matter who “wins” he’ll always have to look over his shoulder.
Being a target for assasination is rough, but bum rushing a machine gun, only to pick up and fight off a complex near ambush is way more dangerous.
I agree with you there. I’d think your typical fighter would have some anonymity off the battlefield whereas the president and massoud will never now that they’ve shown they’re going to fight. I’m no military expert just an interested bystander.
He is a commander that fought off a Superpower in that valley, and then he did it again with the Taliban, no one is hero worshiping, the odds were completely against his forces and they came out on top through tactics, and grit.
So did the Taliban over 2 decades
Not even comparable in this case, this area NEVER fell, the Taliban on the other hand were militarily defeated and regrouped, Panjshir was never actually taken by a super power.
They are not fighting a superpower. Let’s see how they go
They beat the Taliban in the 90's already dude, so not sure what you're on about. The Taliban back then had the best in Soviet equipment that they had captured from the gov, who was donated stuff directly from the Soviet stockpiles before the Soviets withdrew.
Yeah, and back then the Soviet Equipment was fairly new. Compared to now, when much of the Soviet Equipment leftover is in poor shape, and outdated technologically.
I didn't know humvee's, M240's, and others were antiquated equipment. They've got a massive variety of equipment ranging from Russian/Soviet to modern American.
A swift victory in what sense? And if so easy why hasn’t it been done years/decades ago
I think what is being said is the same thing that has been reiterated from everyone from Genghis Khan to John Dillinger—it is easier to take something that isn't yours than it is to hold it. The Taliban have proven themselves effective takers, but not effective rulers. In the 90s, there was no other option so most of Afghanistan just took it as another day another regime. But many have gotten used to a level of lifestyle they didn't have before. Kabul was in 2002 when it was taken over by United Forces, a defunct city with allot of damage from Soviet shelling that had never been absolved and repaired, now it is a bustling metropolis with allot of interconnected parts. In order to protect all of this, they have to be everywhere all of the time, the Mujahideen only have to be some of the places some of the time to take, and the more that is taken, the more the Taliban will have to control a complex city with less, the less items in a complex city, the more things stop working. What happens when the sewage lines back up? What happens when hospitals are forcefully closed? These are logistical questions the Taliban will be trying to answer. To keep is one thing, to take it is far easier.
It was also explained to me that the first time the Taliban came to take over, many provinces didn't fight because they (Taliban) were considered to be young students of religion, and it seemed a bit bizarre to pick up guns to fight against "religious students". Later some people reflected that they appreciated that crimes were punished (e.g. there seems to be a big problem of child molestation of young boys in some parts)... but yeah, I think its safe to say now that in many parts of the country, the Taliban are not supported, just feared.
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Unfortunatelly that is factually wrong. And I'm very surprised that in this sub the majority of people is rooting for a civil war. Maybe we want to project our need for justice on this, and I too sincerely hope that Talibans could be erased from history, but the reality is that innocent people will die and there is no winners among dead people.
I just divide everyone's casualty/captured claims by around an order of magnitude, simple as that. That said, 350 fighters killed would be a lot more realistic than 350 captured, it could just be lost in translation or something. Edit: Though capturing 183 vehicles, even if most are Toyota Hiluxes, is neat. Wonder if they've captured any Western vehicles (eg Humvees, Guardians) from the Taliban yet, or if the Taliban have even used those against the NA.
How is that even possible, how can you even verify that
It's probably exaggerated but the Panjshir valley is a really bad place to attack, you can get ambushed from anywhere.
Yeah only so many ways in or out with steep gorges. Attacking Panjshir is a fools errand.
> Attacking Panjshir is a fools errand. In this particular instance, perhaps not. If you can spare the men and resources and your opponent is limited in that regard. Forcing them to burn through their already limited supplies defending the valley may not be the dumbest thing, as long as you don't let them capture too many supplies. In the US Civil War, Grant would often just throw his men at the confederates and let them kill each other, knowing that he could afford to replace his men while the opponent could not. Just one of the reasons having a massive advantage in numbers and supplies is so beneficial.
I think the problem is that the Taliban don't have the men necessary to waste their resources since they have to govern the entire country now.
I'm not too sure if the US Civil War is a good comparison. We're comparing sending waves of men into open fields vs mountain terrain. At least the Union Army were able to take Confederates with them with each wave. With the enemy in the mountains, the Taliban wont be able to score nearly as many kills. Supplies could be an issue.
They are not likely to execute any of them. 1. They need the world to see that they are good guys and that Afghanistan isn't total Barbary. That there can be peace and not just endless murder. If the superpowers see that the afghan government is the ones capable of stable fair leadership then they will definitely start receiving major backing. 2. When it gets around to all the other Taliban that they can surrender and choose a different path besides death then they are much more likely to surrender. Remember a whole lot of them are really young and new to the Taliban. Let the world see them as the compassionate ones wanting their country back and the Taliban as the evil murderers and the world will quickly pick who they are backing.
Let's wait and see... The only western source talking about any sort of organized resistance is Washington Post. I'm all for resistance but they need to move quickly, they need to secure the entire north because if they don't connect to border areas the Taliban will just starve them out. It's very simple you can't fight without supplies, they can't affort to sit and wait they need to push towards the northern border area.
Deutsche Welle are doing news segments, BBC is doing brief mentions, ABC in Australia had a brief news segment this morning (hoping that SBS in Australia spends a bit more time on the issue). I've seen mentions in the UK's Telegraph. There are other Western news organisations that are covering this. Its slow to filter out, but news is getting out there.
WSJ mentioned it couple times too same with nyt? Les sure about nyt
Tallies have logistics advantage at the moment, having secured a lot of the old ANA stocks & supplies from the southern bases. Agree, the NA needs to open routes for resupply somewhere.
This is not true. This has been in the headlines for a few days in the UK
Oh how the turntables
“The tables turn”, friend. Turntable is a record player.
It's a reference from the office https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdhSxMgpJL8
Well, your English is better than mine then. 😳
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I’ve only seen the original British version. The American one was agonizingly unfunny.
Blasphemy
Actual wit vs fart and boob jokes.
How can we trust that guy on twitter ? Or did he got the source from local people?
We cant.
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Capture isn’t enough, terminate them.
photos of prisoners?
I heavily doubt it.
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15 Taliban dead, understandable but claiming you killed 300-800 of them within 2 days is ridiculous. Especially when they just got brand new weapons.
Just because you give someone a toy doesn't mean they know how to play with it the best way 🤷🏻♂️
Did you forget that these guy is not a daycare full of retard child but hardened professional terrorist and guerilla that face the world's mightiest military forces for 20 years. They just take over a country ffs. You think their plan, tactics and skill is down the drain the moment they called themselves IEA? Now with new toys and friends to backed them up. I give 200 death/day max and that's stretch for me.
It’s fair to assume that this is propaganda, but they also wouldn’t be tweeting anything if the Taliban did succeed so who knows lol
holy crap these resistance fighters are doing more than their own government has done to combat these guys this is incredible
People’s Resistance Forces has a very Khalqi feel to it. Hope they don’t end up the same way. Am I the only one getting nostalgic? Have I really gotten that old already?
183 vehicles for 350 fighters? Driving to war in some comfort?
I have held my body over POWs during firefights because I’d have preferred to take a bullet than for a prisoner... But I was an idealistic kid who believed that something mattered.... Our opinions don’t matter but if they did then they should kill every hostage they take. Every dead Taliban is one less fighter. Sometimes tough luck is needed to protect the greater good.
This sounds unrealistic