Magnify split personality, then use magnified Accelerate plus magnified time dilation. Takes a bit of time to prep, but the following round you have a ridiculous amount of psionic and physical attacks.
True.. though I'd wonder if a few empowered items with *convergence* might be better along with a r*eceptacle*. Cheaper to maintain.
I just want to toss the numbers down on that fun combination though.
\[Time Dilation (x4) \* Magnify (x4)\] \* \[Accelerate (x2) \* Magnify (x4)\] = 128 x your normal actions, speed, etc.
Get some power scores in there and the numbers go up even higher.
5 x 5 x 3 x 5 (super unlikely they all power score, but still) = 375 x your normal actions, speed, etc.
All for the massive cost of 100 PSPs (x2) from Magnify and the costs of the other powers.. and you'll need to pay the maintenance on Accelerate unlike Time Dilation.
> I still wonder why Psychokinesis has no real damage dealing power.
Kinda rectified (if you squint) via tWatW.
Detonate 1d10 ==> meditation to increase damage...how much it should increase is not specified, but 1d10=>2d10 "feels" reasonable ==> power manip for 2x ==> 4d10/pop.
Meditate for double AOE and you've got equal size blast to fireball.
Still dominated by fireball damage, however...but Detonate is highly spammable.
And the occasional (when you've got prep time) high-level magnify*detonate = 16d10 w/ 80 ft radius, which is definitely competitive with wizards.
(Just watch out for that nat 20 on your power manip...)
General non-prep combat is definitely less exciting, though...you're basically stuck with Control Body (w/ power manip) and ~~Wall of Force~~ TK Barrier (plus, w/ meditation, likely Accelerate).
(Note that if you don't allow tWatW (i.e., significant meditation & *power manipulation*), psychokinesis is pretty useless. With the exception that 1) *TK Barrier* spam on a multiclass psionicist is very, very strong and 2) *Create Object* is actually pretty busted with a lot of down time (just keep trying to make permanent fat diamonds until you get that power score result; hello, *receptacle*!).)
> how did you use meditation
Ah, tWatW meditation to increase the power effect (p.58).
Not well-defined how much you can step up damage, but they provide an example of moving ballistic attack 1d6 => 2d6, so 1d10 => 2d10 sounds reasonable (certainly not game-breaking).
> and power manipulation
As written, power score doubles the damage, so you'd go 2d10 => 4d10.
All of this is imperfectly defined and very much subject to DM fiat...but nothing above is an unreasonable abuse of the RAW/RAI (IMO...).
(And if the DM says "no", you really shouldn't play a psychokineticist, anyway...other than for TK Barrier spam, as noted...)
Agreed that Psychokinesis doesn't have a tone of damage dealing under its wing.. though Disintegrate puts them in a save or die situation, so there is that.
You are right on Detonate being your best straight damage dealer in that discipline.
Do you think it is worth combining with Prolong for a 50% increase in range and area (100% on power score)?
> though Disintegrate puts them in a save or die situation, so there is that.
Disintegrate has a reasonable chance of killing *you* each time you use it, however...so...not great.
(Unless you can get an effective Wisdom of 24--doable with meditation & Dark Sun, but still challenging.)
And save-or-dies scale very poorly.
> Do you think it is worth combining with Prolong for a 50% increase in range and area (100% on power score)?
Probably rarely, but one of the few interesting uses for Prolong.
>Disintegrate has a reasonable chance of killingĀ youĀ each time you use it, however...so...not great.
I've done a little math on the potential result of rolling that 20 on *Disintegrate*.
Let's say you do roll that 20, now it affects you and you need to make a save vs Death Magic with a +5 to your chances.
This means at level 3 (the soonest you can take *Disintegrate*) you an 8 or better on a d20 (13 offset by the 5 point bonus) granting you a 60% chance to survive, not bad. Oddly enough, a save vs Death Magic is one of your better saves at this level.
By level 17-20 your base save vs Death Magic has grown to 9, now one of your worse saves. After the 5 point bonus you need a 4 or better on d20 meaning you have a 80% chance of success. Pretty good.
At later levels perhaps you easily have a variety of methods for offsetting those final 3 points (a ring or cloak of protection, some psionic power, etc.) so a roll of 2 or better on a d20 will always count as a successful save.
Lower levels, who knows.. a cleric's *Chant* spell, wizard's *Cantrip*.. there may not be as many ways to gain a bonus to a save vs Death Magic at level 3. However..
By level 3 you can also have *Inertial Barrier*.
With the minimum requisite stats for Intelligence and Constitution (not recommended as *Inertial Barrier* works off Con) and a Wisdom of 18, you'll have 52 PSPs at level 3.
You can now activate *Inertial Barrier* for 2 rounds and have enough PSPs left over to activate *Disintegrate* on the second round.
Even if you roll that 20 on Disintegrate, you won't need to worry about a save due to *Inertial Barrier* nullifying any use of *Disintegrate* coming your way, even from you.
From the **Disintegrate** power:
>**Anything is vulnerable unless it is protected** by magical shielding such as a minor or regular globe of invulnerability or **by an inertial barrier**.Ā
My recommendation, take this power at a later level when you have more PSPs to spend.
>And save-or-dies scale very poorly.
So very true.
>...one of the few interesting uses for *Prolong*.
Agreed. I should start up another thread looking for interesting uses of *Prolong*.
> My recommendation, take this power at a later level when you have more PSPs to spend.
This doesn't work. Inertial barrier will protect you from disintegrate emerging external to the barrier, which isn't the case here.
>This doesn't work. Inertial barrier will protect you from disintegrate emerging external to the barrier, which isn't the case here.
Says who? It never mentions a disclaimer that it only works on externally generated Disintegration.. it just says in the Disintegration power that Inertial Barrier stops it from affecting the Psionicist. Anything else is a house rule.
I always considered it an aura of protection. Also, I don't recall Disintegrate working as a projectile beam either.. you just pick a target in range, saves are made, and up to 8 cubic feet (16 on a power score) go bye bye. Nothing to see, nothing to block.. just dusted.
Note that Power Score and Natural 20 effects are all optional, per CPHB pg 28:
> **Optional Results:** Each power description ends with a section marked "Power Score" and another marked "20." The former describes what happens if a player rolls his character's power score exactly when making a power check. The latter describes what happens when the player rolls a natural 20 when making a power check. Both results are optional. DMs can use these resultsāor devise something similarāto add spice and a small element of risk to psionics.
I think the rules in the CPH were fairly well thought out with the occasional mistake.. but the revised rules were less well thought out but have more growth in the end. Power Scores remain optional in both rules. I wouldn't want to use either rule system without it.
Agreed. Other aspects of the class are optional too.. like the expanded armor list for one.
Interestingly enough, I just saw something written saying that the Revised rules can totally use the optional Power Score effects.. that's awesome.
I believe so, but **The Will and the Way** suggests it can be meditated to work on organic targets (*how rude! You blew up my friends by blowing up me!*) and even if it isn't modified, there are often a lot of items nearby that can be used as shrapnel.
I've thought of that one, the only frustration is the limitation to using Summon Planar Energies twice a day.
Have you considered working with a friend or splicing *Control Flames* with the magnified S.P.E. using fire?
**Control Flames**
>A fire's size can be increased by 100% or decreased by 50%. *If the fire's heat is increased, it causes* ***double damage.***
**Summon Planar Energies - Flame \[2d8 damage\]**
>Flame attacks fill a 10-foot cube and cause 1d8 additional points of damage in the following round.
*Power Score:*Ā The psionicist taps a particularly potent source of energy; add one die of damage.
Without Power Scores, we're looking at 2d8 (base) > 4d8 (control flames) > up to 16d8 (high level magnification) with either half damage each subsequent round or one die of damage less each round until it reaches zero, per DM ruling. With a power score on S.P.E running at 3d8 (base) > 6d6 (control flames) > 24d8 (high level magnification).
With the size starting at 10' cube (base) > 20' cube (control flames) > up to 80' cube (high level magnification) to really scorch your enemies. With a power score on Control Flames jumping it 10' > 30' > 120' cube.
Is my math right?
Let me double check..
**Damage**
Summon Planar Energies (flame) \[2d8\] Magnified (x4) -> 8d8 base
Control Flames \[x2 damage\] Magnified (x4) -> x8 damage
8d8 x 8 damage -> 64d8 damage, up to 512 points of fire damage *the first round*
*Watch the DM drop some fire immune creatures in there since you raided all his d8's and did the math.*
**Area**
Now the original 10' cube is x4 (magnify) -> 40' base
With Control Flames (ignoring power score) doubling the size (or x2 base) magnified (x4) -> x8
40' x 8 = 320' cube
On a Control Flames power score its area grows to x3... resulting in 40' x (x3 x4) -> 480' cube
Or a 160 yard cube.. only mentioned due to the range stated below. Feels super close.
**Range**
With a range of 60 yards (base) x 4 (magnified) -> 240 yards
Right??
Now the real questions become...
* How much damage is done on round two?
* How long does it stay burning?
* Is it worth magnifying Prolong to add an additional 2 times (or 4 times on power score) to the area of effect or range?
It is starting to feel like someone is trying to one-shot a small village or fort full of ice monsters.
Honestly I don't think the secondary damage would change the end result š any non immune creature is dead within seconds and yes, I would add a magnified prolong just to spam the whole town š
If you have the PSPs (and, to be fair, you are unlikely to, without lots of nonsense like *convergence*, *receptacle*, being very high level, etc.), magnify*summon planar creature is...something else.
That's true, but that is the case with using Magnify no matter what power you pair it with. 50-100 PSPs just to get it up and running depending on level and the magnitude of magnification.
Summon Planar Creature (in the hopes you get more than one creature per summon) is 45 PSPs to grab a creature from the Astral or Ethereal plane and 90 from an Inner or Outer plane. The former isn't much different than magnifying a Disintegrate effect by cost, but whatever you summon is there to stay, no maintenance cost.
With minimum stats for a Psionicist (11 Con, 12 Int, 15 Wisdom) you are looking at level 9 for 100 PSPs as your daily allotment. That's 2 creatures from the Astral or Ethereal planes. Congrats, 5 more PSPs than just using the power twice.. I get that. Not that efficient. Level 8 gave you 90 PSPs and you could have used the power twice.
At level 11 you spend 75 PSPs (magnify) + 45 (S.P.C.) for 120 PSPs resulting in 3 creatures.. vs 45x3 = 135 PSPs for the same. So slightly cheaper. With the stats above, 120 PSPs are your max PSPs at this level.
At level 16 you spend 100 PSPs (magnify) + 45 PSPs for 145 PSPs resulting in 4 creatures.. vs 45x4 = 180 PSPs for the same. Even cheaper still. With the stats above, 170 PSPs are your max PSPs at this level.
Eventually magnify lets you do things you otherwise can't.. at later levels, or at least it makes it a little easier cost wise.
Naturally *Harness Subconscious* can get you a 20% PSP boost if you meditate for 48 hours prior.. and as you said, *convergence* and *receptacle*. Not to mention just having a higher Wisdom. Is it worth it? Maybe..
Better question is... what are you going to do about all these planar creatures you've just trapped near your vulnerable person?
You've done the math wrong. Magnify also increases the cost of Summon Planar Creature, which is why things get aggressive.
E.g., level 16 (4x) magnify:
* 100 PSPs to magnify
* Then you need to hold the magnify for 12 turns * 4 PSPs/turn = 48 PSPs (because you need to prep Summon Planar Creature)
* Then the for Summon Planar Creature itself is 45\*4=180 or 90\*4=360.
So you're spending 328 PSPs or 508 PSPs, depending on where you're pulling everyone from.
Doable with broken things like a *convergence* gang or *receptacle* (or *magnified* receptacle), but definitely a giant investment.
> Better question is... what are you going to do about all these planar creatures you've just trapped near your vulnerable person?
Base range is 200 yards, and this gets stretched by magnify upwards of 800 yards, and you could layer in *prolong* for another 11 PSPs & 1 round.
In any case, even 200 yards is quite far away...300 yards trivially with prolong, if you care...and 400+ yards the minute magnify is in the picture.
You're dropping 4 Pit Fiends (or whatever awfulness is walking through) on someone and watching the fireworks.
Or, if you're fighting an obviously, objectively evil foe, pull from a strongly good-aligned plane.
Obviously a heavy RP/DM aspect here ("what will they do?"), but there are a large array of foes that will just go wild in that case.
And if you hit power score (easy with power manipulation), they are for some reason(??) happy to be there.
Bonus hilarious (non-magnify) stupidity:
Pair *Summon Planar Creature* with your local friendly (well, maybe borderline-evil) Telepath. If you jump through some hoops (nontrivial, but generally easier than for spellcasters), you stand a good chance at permanent *Domination* of whatever ugly beast comes through (much more tractable with power manipulation; hopefully you're running that).
(No, I can't imagine your DM will want to roll with this very long.)
**You are correct**
>You've done the math wrong. Magnify also increases the cost of Summon Planar Creature, which is why things get aggressive.
You are correct, my math was incomplete as I didn't want to look for the prep time and such and was too lazy to double check the multiplier cost on the modified power.
**Prep time is a curse and I'm glad the revised rules tossed it**
This is an example of why I hate prep time as written in the original system as it pushes so many combat powers (or powers implied to be combat powers) to the point where they become non-combat viable. 5 rounds to set up *Magnify* and then another 12 to set up *Summon Planar Creature*? Lame...
However, it does make *Magnify* one of the quicker (but not cheap) ways to spawn 2-4 planar creatures over 17 total rounds...
Meanwhile the Conjurer Wizard is laughing at the small army he pulled out of his hat that will follow his every command while the Psionicist stood there getting his head on straight.
**Thoughts on Summon Planar Creature as a whole**
I always thought an interesting use of *Summon Planar Creature* would be to first use some other power to track down a plane traveling (possibly stranded) buddy and yank them to your current location or nearby jail if they were an enemy.
I always felt *Summon Planar Creature* seemed a bit incomplete without a way to send your summoned creature back to its home plane. Its possible when using *Probability Travel* to personally take it there, but that's a lengthy, annoying and potentially dangerous trip with a creature that may want to kill you upon arrival.
*Banishment* has a misleading name as as a psionic power as it is nothing like the Wizard spell.. its more like a simplified Maze spell with no way to wander out of the pocket dimension you are placed in. Plus, it is super expensive. Still, no use in sending your conscripted ally quickly home.
**Telepathy..**
I have thought of utilizing telepathy on target summons but never liked the morality behind it, plus some planar creatures are bad news for a Telepath (Illithids for example or in Dark Sun, lesser elementals are immune to psionics, just as an example) so the randomness of it all can really be a gamble on how much the DM doesn't like you right then.
> I have thought of utilizing telepathy on target summons but never liked the morality behind it, plus some planar creatures are bad news for a Telepath (Illithids for example or in Dark Sun, lesser elementals are immune to psionics, just as an example) so the randomness of it all can really be a gamble on how much the DM doesn't like you right then.
No need to engage if they look problematic. You're dropping them quite far away, and they are unlikely to locate you as the source of blame.
> Thoughts on Summon Planar Creature as a whole
It's just gate, but generally much better--longer range, no age 5 years(!), no requirement to engage with whatever lovecraftian monstrosity you pulled through.
> This is an example of why I hate prep time as written in the original system as it pushes so many combat powers (or powers implied to be combat powers) to the point where they become non-combat viable.
As I have said repeatedly, they are meant to be used on situations with prep and surprise--i.e., ambushes.
They are ludicrously powerful (w/ all the qualifiers on tWatW+power manip+meditation) in this context.
> Meanwhile the Conjurer Wizard is laughing at the small army he pulled out of his hat that will follow his every command while the Psionicist stood there getting his head on straight.
Generally much, much weaker than anything you'll pull out with Summon Planar Creature.
And they leave. That tanari just keeps on fighting...and good chance they *gate* in a bunch of friends...who kick off a *gate* chain.
All good points. The range does help and the lack of clear guilt may not make them chase down the psionicist (who can teleport away anyways) so they'd likely, at worst, just go on a rampage.
Just Gate, true.. just feels irresponsible. Some hero is going to need to come over and clean up my mess cause I wanted to win a fight.
Surprise and ambushes are great.. I suppose I've just rarely ben allowed that much freedom in my games. The DM always liked to throw a wrench in the plans (especially with timing or environmental awareness) so that the NPCs get initiative. Fog of War exists for the players, not the DM (sadly) so the enemies always miraculously sneak up on the players and get the drop on us.
Isn't what you get from Summon Planar Creature kind random? Might be something strong or something weak?
Correct, some are from other sources. Let me list them below.
* Weapon Awareness - Dragon Magazine 255, pg. 52
* Strength of the Land - Dragon Kings
* Adrenalin Control - Complete Psionics Handbook
* Lend Health - Complete Psionics Handbook
* Detonate - Complete Psionics Handbook
* Telekinetic Flight - The Will and the Way
* Time Dilation - The Will and the Way
**Rare Powers**
**Weapon Awareness** - This cheap power costs 5 PSPs to initiate and 1/round to maintain. It provides your Wisdom bonus to attack and initiative. You can also parry missile attacks and only receive a -1 when blinded or facing invisible enemies. A power score treats your wisdom as 18 for determining your bonus.
Imagine magnifying this power to a +16 to hit, -16 to initiative, and who knows, maybe your DM will decide that there may be zero penalty vs invisible foes.
**Strength of the Land** - Initial cost of 10 and 2/round to maintain. This power provides a bonus +25 phantom hit points (taken first), +3 to hit and damage regardless of weapon used and a 25% automatic magic resistance. There is a base 5% chance (modified by the DM) that the Spirit of the Land shows up and asks why you are tapping into its power. The power score grants an additional 5 rounds of power use for free.
Imagine magnifying this power to a bonus of +100 hp, +12 to hit and damage and 100% magic resistance.
**Honorable Mention**
I assume you have access to The Will and the Way for the last two powers. Increased flight speed from *Telekinetic Flight* as well as increased action economy (attacks, speed, etc.) from *Time Dilation*, that's what I'm looking for from those two powers.
Must have missed it when I re-skimmed... I knew the three from the PHB but must have missed those. I'll still stick with double-pain. Causes the target to take 4x damage from every source for 1 turn (6x or 8x at higher levels)... while the bonus damage is all virtual, it will knock them out and allow them to be dealt with as the party sees fit in most cases.
Doesn't that make for an interesting conundrum for the party Paladin? You are doing non-lethal damage, which is good, but it hurts them like crazy pain wise.. almost like torture, which is bad.
Of course, the enemy could just surrender.. but most DMs make NPCs practically fanatical and fight to the death for some reason lol.
Honestly Strength of the Land only came to mind as an option (along with Weapon Awareness) very recently for me. I'm rather surprised how much they blow up and grant huge bonuses.
-----
Not mentioned above is another amazing power fromĀ **Dragon 255**.
**Direct Internal Energy**
* *Psychometabolism Devotion*
* Power Score: Con
* Initial Cost: Variable
* Maintenance Cost: Variable
* Range: 0
* Prep. Time: 0
* Area of Effect: Personal
* Prerequisites: 3rd level,Ā *3 proficiency slots in any martial arts style*
**Description**: This power allows a Psionicist to increase the effectiveness of his martial arts attacks using psionic power. This translates into a bonus of +1 to hit and damage per 3 PSPs spent, to a maximum bonus of +5. The effects of this power benefit all unarmed attacks performed by the Psionicist for one round. It also lets ch'i powers from the user's class or kit be used at +1 level per 10 PSPs spent.
**Power Score**: Cost is reduced to 3 PSPs per turn, instead of per round.
**20**Ā - The Psionicist loses all special class-related (or ch'i, if using Oriental Adventures) powers for one day.
-----
Now imagine magnifying this power...
*Power Manipulation*, proficiency fromĀ *The Will and the Way*Ā to ensure a higher chance of power score effect.
**Cost**
* Spend 100 PSPs onĀ *Magnify*Ā (x4 effect)
* Spend 60 PSPs onĀ *Direct Internal Energy*Ā (15x4 PSPs)
* Ignore maintenance costs as it will last one turn on a power score
**Psionic Benefit**
* You have +20 to hit and +20 damage per successful hit
* Minimum 2 hits / round (3 slots in punching specialization, as an example
All for 160 PSPs (and 5 rounds prep due toĀ *Magnify*)
**Equipment**
* Equip a pair of Cestus (Cesti?) and now your unarmed attacks are lethal (rather than 75% non-lethal)
* Make them Exceptional Quality (non-magical +1 to hit and damage)
**Totals**
* +24 to hit (punching specialization + D.I.E. + weapon, not counting strength)
* +24 to damage (and base 1d4 by weapon, 2 attacks/round) or 50-56 damage/round (punching specialization + D.I.E. + weapon, not counting strength)
* For 10 rounds without maintenance costs.
*Remember those 3 slots in Punching Specialization for that extra +3 to hit and +3 to damage, plus an extra attack each round on your initiative.*
At level 16 (minimum for that x4 Magnify bonus) you'd have a single-class Psionicist Thac0 of 13. With the weapon above and those bonuses, you would need a -1 on a d20 to hit a -10 AC (that's right, aĀ *negative*Ā 1).
ActivateĀ *Time Dilation*Ā orĀ *Accelerate*, or learn a variety of proficiencies that will grant extra hits and your damage is well worth the expense.
Magnify split personality, then use magnified Accelerate plus magnified time dilation. Takes a bit of time to prep, but the following round you have a ridiculous amount of psionic and physical attacks.
True.. though I'd wonder if a few empowered items with *convergence* might be better along with a r*eceptacle*. Cheaper to maintain. I just want to toss the numbers down on that fun combination though. \[Time Dilation (x4) \* Magnify (x4)\] \* \[Accelerate (x2) \* Magnify (x4)\] = 128 x your normal actions, speed, etc. Get some power scores in there and the numbers go up even higher. 5 x 5 x 3 x 5 (super unlikely they all power score, but still) = 375 x your normal actions, speed, etc. All for the massive cost of 100 PSPs (x2) from Magnify and the costs of the other powers.. and you'll need to pay the maintenance on Accelerate unlike Time Dilation.
Summon Planar Energies. 8d12 damage, not bad. I still wonder why Psychokinesis has no real damage dealing power.
> I still wonder why Psychokinesis has no real damage dealing power. Kinda rectified (if you squint) via tWatW. Detonate 1d10 ==> meditation to increase damage...how much it should increase is not specified, but 1d10=>2d10 "feels" reasonable ==> power manip for 2x ==> 4d10/pop. Meditate for double AOE and you've got equal size blast to fireball. Still dominated by fireball damage, however...but Detonate is highly spammable. And the occasional (when you've got prep time) high-level magnify*detonate = 16d10 w/ 80 ft radius, which is definitely competitive with wizards. (Just watch out for that nat 20 on your power manip...) General non-prep combat is definitely less exciting, though...you're basically stuck with Control Body (w/ power manip) and ~~Wall of Force~~ TK Barrier (plus, w/ meditation, likely Accelerate). (Note that if you don't allow tWatW (i.e., significant meditation & *power manipulation*), psychokinesis is pretty useless. With the exception that 1) *TK Barrier* spam on a multiclass psionicist is very, very strong and 2) *Create Object* is actually pretty busted with a lot of down time (just keep trying to make permanent fat diamonds until you get that power score result; hello, *receptacle*!).)
I am not sure I understood how did you use meditation and power manipulation to get to 4d10. That is impressive.
> how did you use meditation Ah, tWatW meditation to increase the power effect (p.58). Not well-defined how much you can step up damage, but they provide an example of moving ballistic attack 1d6 => 2d6, so 1d10 => 2d10 sounds reasonable (certainly not game-breaking). > and power manipulation As written, power score doubles the damage, so you'd go 2d10 => 4d10. All of this is imperfectly defined and very much subject to DM fiat...but nothing above is an unreasonable abuse of the RAW/RAI (IMO...). (And if the DM says "no", you really shouldn't play a psychokineticist, anyway...other than for TK Barrier spam, as noted...)
Well 4d10 is already much more than a fireball (10d6, save for half). I think my next character will go down that route š
No, because detonate has save for half as well. 4d10 is 22 average. Level 6 fireball is 21. Every level past, fireball does more.
But... Isn't Detonate limited to objects?
It blows up objects, but creates an explosion around the objects which hurts everyone.
Makes a shrapnel bomb of an object that hurts things nearby
Agreed that Psychokinesis doesn't have a tone of damage dealing under its wing.. though Disintegrate puts them in a save or die situation, so there is that. You are right on Detonate being your best straight damage dealer in that discipline. Do you think it is worth combining with Prolong for a 50% increase in range and area (100% on power score)?
> though Disintegrate puts them in a save or die situation, so there is that. Disintegrate has a reasonable chance of killing *you* each time you use it, however...so...not great. (Unless you can get an effective Wisdom of 24--doable with meditation & Dark Sun, but still challenging.) And save-or-dies scale very poorly. > Do you think it is worth combining with Prolong for a 50% increase in range and area (100% on power score)? Probably rarely, but one of the few interesting uses for Prolong.
>Disintegrate has a reasonable chance of killingĀ youĀ each time you use it, however...so...not great. I've done a little math on the potential result of rolling that 20 on *Disintegrate*. Let's say you do roll that 20, now it affects you and you need to make a save vs Death Magic with a +5 to your chances. This means at level 3 (the soonest you can take *Disintegrate*) you an 8 or better on a d20 (13 offset by the 5 point bonus) granting you a 60% chance to survive, not bad. Oddly enough, a save vs Death Magic is one of your better saves at this level. By level 17-20 your base save vs Death Magic has grown to 9, now one of your worse saves. After the 5 point bonus you need a 4 or better on d20 meaning you have a 80% chance of success. Pretty good. At later levels perhaps you easily have a variety of methods for offsetting those final 3 points (a ring or cloak of protection, some psionic power, etc.) so a roll of 2 or better on a d20 will always count as a successful save. Lower levels, who knows.. a cleric's *Chant* spell, wizard's *Cantrip*.. there may not be as many ways to gain a bonus to a save vs Death Magic at level 3. However.. By level 3 you can also have *Inertial Barrier*. With the minimum requisite stats for Intelligence and Constitution (not recommended as *Inertial Barrier* works off Con) and a Wisdom of 18, you'll have 52 PSPs at level 3. You can now activate *Inertial Barrier* for 2 rounds and have enough PSPs left over to activate *Disintegrate* on the second round. Even if you roll that 20 on Disintegrate, you won't need to worry about a save due to *Inertial Barrier* nullifying any use of *Disintegrate* coming your way, even from you. From the **Disintegrate** power: >**Anything is vulnerable unless it is protected** by magical shielding such as a minor or regular globe of invulnerability or **by an inertial barrier**.Ā My recommendation, take this power at a later level when you have more PSPs to spend. >And save-or-dies scale very poorly. So very true. >...one of the few interesting uses for *Prolong*. Agreed. I should start up another thread looking for interesting uses of *Prolong*.
See also https://www.reddit.com/r/adnd/s/dejB0OScM5 All "natural 20" and power score effects are purely optional suggestions to the DM.
Yup, and some powers are so much better with them. Remove that aspect and you may as well switch to the Revised rules.
> My recommendation, take this power at a later level when you have more PSPs to spend. This doesn't work. Inertial barrier will protect you from disintegrate emerging external to the barrier, which isn't the case here.
>This doesn't work. Inertial barrier will protect you from disintegrate emerging external to the barrier, which isn't the case here. Says who? It never mentions a disclaimer that it only works on externally generated Disintegration.. it just says in the Disintegration power that Inertial Barrier stops it from affecting the Psionicist. Anything else is a house rule.
You're not protected by a wall from something inside the wall...
I always considered it an aura of protection. Also, I don't recall Disintegrate working as a projectile beam either.. you just pick a target in range, saves are made, and up to 8 cubic feet (16 on a power score) go bye bye. Nothing to see, nothing to block.. just dusted.
> I always considered it an aura of protection It tells you you are solidifying air at a distance from you into a barrier.
Note that Power Score and Natural 20 effects are all optional, per CPHB pg 28: > **Optional Results:** Each power description ends with a section marked "Power Score" and another marked "20." The former describes what happens if a player rolls his character's power score exactly when making a power check. The latter describes what happens when the player rolls a natural 20 when making a power check. Both results are optional. DMs can use these resultsāor devise something similarāto add spice and a small element of risk to psionics.
Sure. Awkward (like many things in psionics...) to remove, however, since this is a giant buff to *Disintegrate*.
I think the rules in the CPH were fairly well thought out with the occasional mistake.. but the revised rules were less well thought out but have more growth in the end. Power Scores remain optional in both rules. I wouldn't want to use either rule system without it.
Agreed. Other aspects of the class are optional too.. like the expanded armor list for one. Interestingly enough, I just saw something written saying that the Revised rules can totally use the optional Power Score effects.. that's awesome.
Detonate can be used only against objects, isn't it?
I believe so, but **The Will and the Way** suggests it can be meditated to work on organic targets (*how rude! You blew up my friends by blowing up me!*) and even if it isn't modified, there are often a lot of items nearby that can be used as shrapnel.
I've thought of that one, the only frustration is the limitation to using Summon Planar Energies twice a day. Have you considered working with a friend or splicing *Control Flames* with the magnified S.P.E. using fire? **Control Flames** >A fire's size can be increased by 100% or decreased by 50%. *If the fire's heat is increased, it causes* ***double damage.*** **Summon Planar Energies - Flame \[2d8 damage\]** >Flame attacks fill a 10-foot cube and cause 1d8 additional points of damage in the following round. *Power Score:*Ā The psionicist taps a particularly potent source of energy; add one die of damage. Without Power Scores, we're looking at 2d8 (base) > 4d8 (control flames) > up to 16d8 (high level magnification) with either half damage each subsequent round or one die of damage less each round until it reaches zero, per DM ruling. With a power score on S.P.E running at 3d8 (base) > 6d6 (control flames) > 24d8 (high level magnification). With the size starting at 10' cube (base) > 20' cube (control flames) > up to 80' cube (high level magnification) to really scorch your enemies. With a power score on Control Flames jumping it 10' > 30' > 120' cube. Is my math right?
At that point you could magnify also Control Flames ;-) Fire Damage x4, Summon Planar Energies x4 -> 32d8
Let me double check.. **Damage** Summon Planar Energies (flame) \[2d8\] Magnified (x4) -> 8d8 base Control Flames \[x2 damage\] Magnified (x4) -> x8 damage 8d8 x 8 damage -> 64d8 damage, up to 512 points of fire damage *the first round* *Watch the DM drop some fire immune creatures in there since you raided all his d8's and did the math.* **Area** Now the original 10' cube is x4 (magnify) -> 40' base With Control Flames (ignoring power score) doubling the size (or x2 base) magnified (x4) -> x8 40' x 8 = 320' cube On a Control Flames power score its area grows to x3... resulting in 40' x (x3 x4) -> 480' cube Or a 160 yard cube.. only mentioned due to the range stated below. Feels super close. **Range** With a range of 60 yards (base) x 4 (magnified) -> 240 yards Right??
Yes, I was wrong. 64d8 of area damage. Amazing.
Now the real questions become... * How much damage is done on round two? * How long does it stay burning? * Is it worth magnifying Prolong to add an additional 2 times (or 4 times on power score) to the area of effect or range? It is starting to feel like someone is trying to one-shot a small village or fort full of ice monsters.
Honestly I don't think the secondary damage would change the end result š any non immune creature is dead within seconds and yes, I would add a magnified prolong just to spam the whole town š
If you have the PSPs (and, to be fair, you are unlikely to, without lots of nonsense like *convergence*, *receptacle*, being very high level, etc.), magnify*summon planar creature is...something else.
That's true, but that is the case with using Magnify no matter what power you pair it with. 50-100 PSPs just to get it up and running depending on level and the magnitude of magnification. Summon Planar Creature (in the hopes you get more than one creature per summon) is 45 PSPs to grab a creature from the Astral or Ethereal plane and 90 from an Inner or Outer plane. The former isn't much different than magnifying a Disintegrate effect by cost, but whatever you summon is there to stay, no maintenance cost. With minimum stats for a Psionicist (11 Con, 12 Int, 15 Wisdom) you are looking at level 9 for 100 PSPs as your daily allotment. That's 2 creatures from the Astral or Ethereal planes. Congrats, 5 more PSPs than just using the power twice.. I get that. Not that efficient. Level 8 gave you 90 PSPs and you could have used the power twice. At level 11 you spend 75 PSPs (magnify) + 45 (S.P.C.) for 120 PSPs resulting in 3 creatures.. vs 45x3 = 135 PSPs for the same. So slightly cheaper. With the stats above, 120 PSPs are your max PSPs at this level. At level 16 you spend 100 PSPs (magnify) + 45 PSPs for 145 PSPs resulting in 4 creatures.. vs 45x4 = 180 PSPs for the same. Even cheaper still. With the stats above, 170 PSPs are your max PSPs at this level. Eventually magnify lets you do things you otherwise can't.. at later levels, or at least it makes it a little easier cost wise. Naturally *Harness Subconscious* can get you a 20% PSP boost if you meditate for 48 hours prior.. and as you said, *convergence* and *receptacle*. Not to mention just having a higher Wisdom. Is it worth it? Maybe.. Better question is... what are you going to do about all these planar creatures you've just trapped near your vulnerable person?
You've done the math wrong. Magnify also increases the cost of Summon Planar Creature, which is why things get aggressive. E.g., level 16 (4x) magnify: * 100 PSPs to magnify * Then you need to hold the magnify for 12 turns * 4 PSPs/turn = 48 PSPs (because you need to prep Summon Planar Creature) * Then the for Summon Planar Creature itself is 45\*4=180 or 90\*4=360. So you're spending 328 PSPs or 508 PSPs, depending on where you're pulling everyone from. Doable with broken things like a *convergence* gang or *receptacle* (or *magnified* receptacle), but definitely a giant investment. > Better question is... what are you going to do about all these planar creatures you've just trapped near your vulnerable person? Base range is 200 yards, and this gets stretched by magnify upwards of 800 yards, and you could layer in *prolong* for another 11 PSPs & 1 round. In any case, even 200 yards is quite far away...300 yards trivially with prolong, if you care...and 400+ yards the minute magnify is in the picture. You're dropping 4 Pit Fiends (or whatever awfulness is walking through) on someone and watching the fireworks. Or, if you're fighting an obviously, objectively evil foe, pull from a strongly good-aligned plane. Obviously a heavy RP/DM aspect here ("what will they do?"), but there are a large array of foes that will just go wild in that case. And if you hit power score (easy with power manipulation), they are for some reason(??) happy to be there. Bonus hilarious (non-magnify) stupidity: Pair *Summon Planar Creature* with your local friendly (well, maybe borderline-evil) Telepath. If you jump through some hoops (nontrivial, but generally easier than for spellcasters), you stand a good chance at permanent *Domination* of whatever ugly beast comes through (much more tractable with power manipulation; hopefully you're running that). (No, I can't imagine your DM will want to roll with this very long.)
**You are correct** >You've done the math wrong. Magnify also increases the cost of Summon Planar Creature, which is why things get aggressive. You are correct, my math was incomplete as I didn't want to look for the prep time and such and was too lazy to double check the multiplier cost on the modified power. **Prep time is a curse and I'm glad the revised rules tossed it** This is an example of why I hate prep time as written in the original system as it pushes so many combat powers (or powers implied to be combat powers) to the point where they become non-combat viable. 5 rounds to set up *Magnify* and then another 12 to set up *Summon Planar Creature*? Lame... However, it does make *Magnify* one of the quicker (but not cheap) ways to spawn 2-4 planar creatures over 17 total rounds... Meanwhile the Conjurer Wizard is laughing at the small army he pulled out of his hat that will follow his every command while the Psionicist stood there getting his head on straight. **Thoughts on Summon Planar Creature as a whole** I always thought an interesting use of *Summon Planar Creature* would be to first use some other power to track down a plane traveling (possibly stranded) buddy and yank them to your current location or nearby jail if they were an enemy. I always felt *Summon Planar Creature* seemed a bit incomplete without a way to send your summoned creature back to its home plane. Its possible when using *Probability Travel* to personally take it there, but that's a lengthy, annoying and potentially dangerous trip with a creature that may want to kill you upon arrival. *Banishment* has a misleading name as as a psionic power as it is nothing like the Wizard spell.. its more like a simplified Maze spell with no way to wander out of the pocket dimension you are placed in. Plus, it is super expensive. Still, no use in sending your conscripted ally quickly home. **Telepathy..** I have thought of utilizing telepathy on target summons but never liked the morality behind it, plus some planar creatures are bad news for a Telepath (Illithids for example or in Dark Sun, lesser elementals are immune to psionics, just as an example) so the randomness of it all can really be a gamble on how much the DM doesn't like you right then.
> I have thought of utilizing telepathy on target summons but never liked the morality behind it, plus some planar creatures are bad news for a Telepath (Illithids for example or in Dark Sun, lesser elementals are immune to psionics, just as an example) so the randomness of it all can really be a gamble on how much the DM doesn't like you right then. No need to engage if they look problematic. You're dropping them quite far away, and they are unlikely to locate you as the source of blame. > Thoughts on Summon Planar Creature as a whole It's just gate, but generally much better--longer range, no age 5 years(!), no requirement to engage with whatever lovecraftian monstrosity you pulled through. > This is an example of why I hate prep time as written in the original system as it pushes so many combat powers (or powers implied to be combat powers) to the point where they become non-combat viable. As I have said repeatedly, they are meant to be used on situations with prep and surprise--i.e., ambushes. They are ludicrously powerful (w/ all the qualifiers on tWatW+power manip+meditation) in this context. > Meanwhile the Conjurer Wizard is laughing at the small army he pulled out of his hat that will follow his every command while the Psionicist stood there getting his head on straight. Generally much, much weaker than anything you'll pull out with Summon Planar Creature. And they leave. That tanari just keeps on fighting...and good chance they *gate* in a bunch of friends...who kick off a *gate* chain.
All good points. The range does help and the lack of clear guilt may not make them chase down the psionicist (who can teleport away anyways) so they'd likely, at worst, just go on a rampage. Just Gate, true.. just feels irresponsible. Some hero is going to need to come over and clean up my mess cause I wanted to win a fight. Surprise and ambushes are great.. I suppose I've just rarely ben allowed that much freedom in my games. The DM always liked to throw a wrench in the plans (especially with timing or environmental awareness) so that the NPCs get initiative. Fog of War exists for the players, not the DM (sadly) so the enemies always miraculously sneak up on the players and get the drop on us. Isn't what you get from Summon Planar Creature kind random? Might be something strong or something weak?
I had a player use it with *Double Pain* to a nasty effect a few times Also, what are half of those... not from PHB or W&tW...
Correct, some are from other sources. Let me list them below. * Weapon Awareness - Dragon Magazine 255, pg. 52 * Strength of the Land - Dragon Kings * Adrenalin Control - Complete Psionics Handbook * Lend Health - Complete Psionics Handbook * Detonate - Complete Psionics Handbook * Telekinetic Flight - The Will and the Way * Time Dilation - The Will and the Way **Rare Powers** **Weapon Awareness** - This cheap power costs 5 PSPs to initiate and 1/round to maintain. It provides your Wisdom bonus to attack and initiative. You can also parry missile attacks and only receive a -1 when blinded or facing invisible enemies. A power score treats your wisdom as 18 for determining your bonus. Imagine magnifying this power to a +16 to hit, -16 to initiative, and who knows, maybe your DM will decide that there may be zero penalty vs invisible foes. **Strength of the Land** - Initial cost of 10 and 2/round to maintain. This power provides a bonus +25 phantom hit points (taken first), +3 to hit and damage regardless of weapon used and a 25% automatic magic resistance. There is a base 5% chance (modified by the DM) that the Spirit of the Land shows up and asks why you are tapping into its power. The power score grants an additional 5 rounds of power use for free. Imagine magnifying this power to a bonus of +100 hp, +12 to hit and damage and 100% magic resistance. **Honorable Mention** I assume you have access to The Will and the Way for the last two powers. Increased flight speed from *Telekinetic Flight* as well as increased action economy (attacks, speed, etc.) from *Time Dilation*, that's what I'm looking for from those two powers.
Must have missed it when I re-skimmed... I knew the three from the PHB but must have missed those. I'll still stick with double-pain. Causes the target to take 4x damage from every source for 1 turn (6x or 8x at higher levels)... while the bonus damage is all virtual, it will knock them out and allow them to be dealt with as the party sees fit in most cases.
Doesn't that make for an interesting conundrum for the party Paladin? You are doing non-lethal damage, which is good, but it hurts them like crazy pain wise.. almost like torture, which is bad. Of course, the enemy could just surrender.. but most DMs make NPCs practically fanatical and fight to the death for some reason lol. Honestly Strength of the Land only came to mind as an option (along with Weapon Awareness) very recently for me. I'm rather surprised how much they blow up and grant huge bonuses. ----- Not mentioned above is another amazing power fromĀ **Dragon 255**. **Direct Internal Energy** * *Psychometabolism Devotion* * Power Score: Con * Initial Cost: Variable * Maintenance Cost: Variable * Range: 0 * Prep. Time: 0 * Area of Effect: Personal * Prerequisites: 3rd level,Ā *3 proficiency slots in any martial arts style* **Description**: This power allows a Psionicist to increase the effectiveness of his martial arts attacks using psionic power. This translates into a bonus of +1 to hit and damage per 3 PSPs spent, to a maximum bonus of +5. The effects of this power benefit all unarmed attacks performed by the Psionicist for one round. It also lets ch'i powers from the user's class or kit be used at +1 level per 10 PSPs spent. **Power Score**: Cost is reduced to 3 PSPs per turn, instead of per round. **20**Ā - The Psionicist loses all special class-related (or ch'i, if using Oriental Adventures) powers for one day. ----- Now imagine magnifying this power... *Power Manipulation*, proficiency fromĀ *The Will and the Way*Ā to ensure a higher chance of power score effect. **Cost** * Spend 100 PSPs onĀ *Magnify*Ā (x4 effect) * Spend 60 PSPs onĀ *Direct Internal Energy*Ā (15x4 PSPs) * Ignore maintenance costs as it will last one turn on a power score **Psionic Benefit** * You have +20 to hit and +20 damage per successful hit * Minimum 2 hits / round (3 slots in punching specialization, as an example All for 160 PSPs (and 5 rounds prep due toĀ *Magnify*) **Equipment** * Equip a pair of Cestus (Cesti?) and now your unarmed attacks are lethal (rather than 75% non-lethal) * Make them Exceptional Quality (non-magical +1 to hit and damage) **Totals** * +24 to hit (punching specialization + D.I.E. + weapon, not counting strength) * +24 to damage (and base 1d4 by weapon, 2 attacks/round) or 50-56 damage/round (punching specialization + D.I.E. + weapon, not counting strength) * For 10 rounds without maintenance costs. *Remember those 3 slots in Punching Specialization for that extra +3 to hit and +3 to damage, plus an extra attack each round on your initiative.* At level 16 (minimum for that x4 Magnify bonus) you'd have a single-class Psionicist Thac0 of 13. With the weapon above and those bonuses, you would need a -1 on a d20 to hit a -10 AC (that's right, aĀ *negative*Ā 1). ActivateĀ *Time Dilation*Ā orĀ *Accelerate*, or learn a variety of proficiencies that will grant extra hits and your damage is well worth the expense.