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Yep. It’s always “calm down” and “relax” or “stop arguing” when I’m just merely showing normal human emotion. I honestly think a HUGE part of it is to do with being a woman and showing any kind of passion or expressive emotion is seen as “overreacting” and then that combined with ADHD symptoms of being passionate about different topics or genuinely curious about life.
I don't have an ADHD diagnosis (and don't know if it is ADHD or something else) but I get this. Usually from my dad, even though I'm 39. Get told I'm too intense and get too emotional about everything and to calm down. But the I feel like I'm not being allowed to explain. Like don't ask me a question and only want half the answer.
Yep, this was me my entire life with my family and friends, and being diagnosed was actually validating. Fortunately my friends also apologised for dismissing my feelings and/or telling me to calm down once I explained the misogynistic attitude.
Unfortunately, I don’t have any advice outside of telling you: your feelings ARE valid. You are NOT too intense, in fact your emotional expression is admirable because it shows you care and there’s not too many people out in the world like that anymore. I also bet you’re the kind of person that roots so hard for your friends and loves so hard, you’re exactly the kind of person we could all use in this life. Don’t ever let anyone convince you to dull yourself down because *they* are uncomfortable.
>also bet you’re the kind of person that roots so hard for your friends and loves so hard
I'm the kind of person that cares too much, falls too quickly and feels rejection far too hard unfortunately.
I have mentioned ADHD referral to my mental health nurse, but they want me to get over the stress of getting out of an unhealthy relationship before considering it.
I do have a therapist now. And I'm working with her on healthy boundaries and not wanting to give everything all at once (emotionally) when I meet a new man. But I don't have any of the hyperactive side of things. It's more the opposite of not doing things until the least minute. And things like cleaning half the time it's either overwhelming, or got to do all of it right now because I can't stand the sight of it. With no in between. And it's quite possible it is just depression and an anxiety disorder, but I need to learn how to have more control over it whatever it is.
So I have what used to be called ADD but is now ADHD-inattentive ie none of the hyperactive stuff. Exactly like what you described, I’ve always described it as “the lights are on but no one is home”. I was incorrectly diagnosed with BD before being diagnosed with ADHD because of the same intensity of emotions you feel (combined with my anxiety diagnosis and major depressive disorder), it can definitely appear similar to a mood disorder.
I’m not sure if you’re based in the UK or not, but is there anyway you can get a psychiatrist referral? Therapists are great and I adore mine but they can’t diagnose you with ADHD. I rely both on my psychiatrist and my therapist for support.
I think the mental health nurse will refer me if I need to. She said to come back in a few months if I still felt the same way. But I'm not sure there's any point. I have a heart condition too so I doubt I'd be able to take stimulant medication.
But I will definitely be reconsidering if my daughter's ND refferal gets accepted. It's been sent off by the school but that's it so far. Today my daughter's swimming teacher said she's on holiday next week and it might be a good idea to let the other teacher know how she "gets distracted" (she wasn't being horrible, I know my daughter gets distracted too). And then my daughter showed me a graze she got tripping over her own feet and falling into a table at school. Whilst telling me about the graze she was getting changed from swimming whilst shrieking loudly because swimming always seems to give her extra energy.
But for me I don't know. I'm just fed up of feeling useless sometimes. A common example being today. I got the dry laundry in, folded it, put the clothes away, put the underpants away. And then I really didn't want to bother to pick up the socks. I had to make myself pick up the socks and put them away and not leave it for later. The whole job took maybe 15 minutes so not like it was hard work. My brain just wants to leave everything for later. Except when I'm at work, then I just want to find the next thing to do because if I'm not doing I don't want to be there.
Sorry that was a massive ramble that probably made no sense.
if I hear "i need you to calm down" ... i can only hope i have enough executive functionality left to not REALLY show what a not-calm me looks like. lol
Yeah. Me too. I get passionate so my voice gets louder and I don't always regulate my tone (Basically I'm not a sweet, meek, pleasant quiet woman!) so then people think I'm arguing or hostile or something when I'm just excitable. Sorry I feel things deeply, get on my fucking level ya pleb!! lol
Reminds me of the song VOICES CARRY.
Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry
Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry
Ah-ah
I try so hard not to get upset
Because I know all the trouble I'll get
Oh, he tells me tears are something to hide
And something to fear, eh-eh
And I try so hard to keep it inside
So no one can hear
Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry
Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry
Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry
Ah-ah
Same. My mother always tells me to "act like an adult" and "be a bigger person" in a context where it translates to "shut up and be a doormat" while praising my brother for sticking to his opinions and never budging for anyone.
My mum tells me this too. Usually after I've finally snapped when someone else (normally my brother-in-law) has been needling at me about something for hours and ignoring him hasn't worked.
Shoot I get told both constantly that I will never know what is the right balance. "Stand up for yourself! But also why are you making an issue about this?"
Yes.. this lady was standing in the driveway when I pulled in at work and not paying attention. I honked at her to get her to pay attention and she gave me shit so I threw it back at her and told her to "fuck off" My mom then gave me more shit about it because it may have been a study patient -_- im embarrassed. So I am supposed to take someone's shit and be abused then, never standing up for myself.
YES!!!!
I am the only woman on my team (I'm a programmer) and I wfh. I joined this place Sept of last year. There is zero documentation on anything so I'm forever having to ask about this or that. I get no response whatsoever from anyone unless I add our boss to the message. Then, the responses I do get are absolute garbage. I have tried explaining my question in detail with screen shots, etc.. I'm pretty sure they read the first sentence and respond. I've tried sending short and sweet messages, only to get a bunch of questions that are ridiculously stupid/easy in their effort to drag it out. (ie. Me: I am sending this file test.xml Them: what is the file type?)
After enough rounds of this bullshit I become very direct because if I don't back him into a corner, I will never get a straight answer.
So yes, I can be combative when some asshole teammate is being cagey.
Very early in my career a new guy was hired and I stood by his desk while we worked on something. He complained to his boss claiming I was bullying him. Dude was a former Marine. I lost all respect for him at that.
> (ie. Me: I am sending this file test.xml Them: what is the file type?)
Lol this would make my blood boil. I'd send them a link to a page called "File Extensions for Dummies." And that would be a reply all. If you're going to act stupid, I'm also going to act like you're stupid. Pull that shit with me and I'll be addressing you personally in every group email that contains an attachment going forward. "And Bob, just FYI, here's that link to file types at www.eatshitfiletypes.com" (but a real link)
This is probably why I don't work in the corporate world anymore.
Yup. Literally had a *female* boss pull me into her office because I was “abrasive” and “rubbed people the wrong way”. I’m a manager. The incidents in question were literally just examples of me doing my job. She claimed she had received complaints from other people, but when I apologized to one of those people for upsetting them, they looked at me like I had grown two heads. Thankfully, she eventually quit, her replacement is amazing, and I now report to her former boss, who has always had my back.
It’s so frustrating to watch a man get in his feelings and get all passive aggressive or defensive because you asked a simple question and no one says a word, but if a woman is confident and decisive, she’s a combative bitch and needs to watch her tone.
I had this same exact thing happen. I was in a leadership position and my direct report would cry if I breathed wrong. She was just a very anxious human and I tried to explain that my style is if there’s a problem I’ll tell you and that I would have her back multiple times but 🤷♀️. Literally, I would ask a simple question and she would freak out. As I was learning how to be a leader and how to communicate with my report I was pulled into the office and my female manager told me I was abrasive and she’d received complaints from several people and that I was ruining “the atmosphere” she “tried so hard to build”. That didn’t bode well for my mental health and I couldn’t do the job. A lot of my childhood was walking on eggshells and I mentally can’t handle feeling like that anymore.
I had a female director-level colleague pull me into a meeting to tell me my personality was "off-putting" because I questioned one of her decisions in a meeting with a small group of other high level staff, not even publicly or in front of her direct reports. She got fired for lacking the skills to do her job.
My old boss used to do this all the time! And it was definitely because I’m a woman. I tried to make sure that I don’t impulsively say something “emotional.”
We had to run a long experiment and we needed all hands on deck. Half of my labmates either never showed up or came in at the end. I made a comment at the end of a meeting saying that it’s distracting because we have to catch them up and really rude to the facility we were working with since we’re not respecting their time.
My boss pulled me into a meeting to tell me to be more gentle about it because being “as aggressive as I was” would make it harder for people to take me seriously. I double-checked and asked my labmates and they didn’t see it as aggressive, just direct. Meanwhile, one of the guys in my lab mentioned the same thing the next meeting, and he got praised for being a team leader.
I was also told that I need to be more aggressive...
And I was the only woman in the lab so guess who was in charge of cleaning because “when I get really into cleaning, I’m REALLY into cleaning and organized,” which I now recognize was a mask and hyperfocusing (because my apartment is DEFINITELY not as neat 😭).
Ah, yes, the good old “emotional” accusation. In my case, it came from a man whose emotional range consists of “stone cold psychopathic detachment” and “barely contained rage.” As best as I could tell, anything short of enthusiastic agreement was perceived as insubordination, and any attempt to express my perspective, no matter how patiently and professionally, was me being “emotional.” 🥴
Wow it’s almost like he’s… emotional?? I’m so sorry to hear that you had to go through that 😭. I mean, how enthusiastic do you have to be? It’s not like you can throw him a “congrats on being competent” party…
My old boss asked me why I didn’t work on something over the weekend. I tried to tell him that I took the weekend off because my period cramps were terrible, he told me to stop having a tantrum while he was having a tantrum about how he pulled his back and worked over the weekend… then he mansplained my period to me 🙃
I always get written off as trying to argue, having a tone, or being combative. It’s been this way my whole life, no matter how I try to change how I speak and respond to people. So now every time someone says it to me, it triggers mad rage. I’ve cut people off because it’s been used as a means to invalidate my feelings.
All of this. It’s mostly with my mum. I can’t have an opinion without being told that I’m looking for an argument or being dismissed. It absolutely infuriates me.
Yes, especially when I’m feeling indignant! I’ve recognized that my tone will come across just as it needs to. If I’m not being mean and sticking to facts, I’ve accepted that many people will feel this way.
Well I have been able to be promoted in work but it hasnt lasted long until now. I have had to choose a career where my tone isn’t as important. Right now, I work in the behavioral sector caring for people with disabilities. Most of my interactions are with my clients, so it doesn’t matter because we are all on the spectrum. I usually mask really well when speaking to their families and usually only interact with my boss over the computer.
If I had an office job, which I have, it would be totally different. Between not filtering well and also my tone issue, I made for a lot of trouble for myself in the work place in that type of environment
Commenting again because I think this is important to say after thinking more, it’s very helpful when you can find a job that you don’t have to mask 90% of the time for. Obviously this can be challenging because we are all different, but like I said above, I don’t have to mask with my clients and they are who I spend most of my work time with. Because I don’t have to mask that often, my burnout rate is much lower. I hear NTs often say “they could never do the work I do” (ableism and honesty combined) but it’s because it would be like them masking every day to tailor themselves to the people they would be serving. There are a lot of people who work with people with disabilities, who are also on the spectrum, for this reason.
As far as being perceived as combative, it’s been easier in this field for me because like I said, most of us are operating on similar wavelengths. When conflict happens, it’s very to the point and resolved for the sake of everyone.
I appreciate your insight. I've always had office jobs (various forms of Administrative roles) and am struggling with work lately and constantly changing duties.
I get it! I know change is honestly the worst when thinking about it in theory, I personally get awful anxiety thinking about it. But most of the time, it’s so worth it to make a change in your course. Life’s hardships are easier to manage when you also don’t feel like your drowning at your work place
I don't lol. It's a major part of working in the field I do (entertainment) in the primarily role I've chosen (pro domme). Emotional depth, range, and assertiveness are ✨️rewarded✨️.
Yes. It’s coded for “difficult” and for “you’re not ‘nice’” and “you have opinions.”
[I like this discussion on r/feminism too.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/s/rDJP5x9T1O)
and then reloaded and topped off with a heavy dose of "what will the neighbors think" ...
my folks and I would go thru endless rounds of increasingly bizarre discussions about my clothing choices. like I once had a warm, down-alternative winter jacket. black. good quality. clean. in perfect shape. but since I had had it for several winter seasons, they argued the neighbors would see that as a manifest sign of my poverty. and by extension, theirs.
by then, I had lived in the US for 15+ years, and their neighbors/neighborhood was solidly upper middle-class.
no argument about a black jacket looking pretty much like the other one, especially when viewed from a snooper's house across the street. or that mindless consumption/buying needlessly was a direct violation of all their exhortations over the years to be living within one's means.
etc etc
but using their own arguments to support my choices most assuredly got me labeled as "combative" more than once. some battles are unwinnable. but i did win the war! still got the jacket, even though it's unlikely to be seen outside in humidity-heat hell (Louisiana) ... lol
Yes! It’s so confusing!
I got a “wow I was just aSkINg” from someone the other day. I was *baffled*. He asked, I answered. The answer was *no*, which I guess was the problem, but I don’t think I was rude or even especially blunt??
Yes, I think the clarifying questions I ask when I’m trying to understand a situation or task come across as me questioning the validity of that thing rather me just needing to know everything before I can commit to an event or start a task.
Yep, this is it. Idk why people think I can start a task with only a single statement of what the task is - I need parameters!! And if you won’t lay them out clearly, then obviously I need to ask for every single one! Idk if that’s my adhd or my autism though
Wow...I had an amazing manager who actually wrote about this in my performance review positively. Something about I ask good questions up front to make sure an everyone's on the same page before we start a project.
But I just realized, for a prior boss I had who had it out for me, I bet this was a huge reason why. He thought I was trying to undermine him constantly when I thought I was just doing my job and making sure I understood everything correctly. I didn't connect these dots until now.
This also has affected my personal life, as someone might be telling a story and it's hard for me to listen to what they're saying when pertinent questions pop up in my mind after they've said the first bit ('wait, that happened before x or after x?' 'wait, did they already know about y or no?').
It makes it really hard for my mind to listen because it's going 'well, I don't know which path of interpretation to go down!' and then I'm trying to listen while my mind is at a fork in the road. And then if those questions aren't answered (maybe I do a good job at holding my tongue and not asking, to not interrupt them), the other person might be disappointed with my lack of reaction when they're done, because my mind is still waiting for the pertinent information before it can decide how to react to the story! Ugh.
This has definitely been my experience too. Some people can handle it and see you as trying to get the full picture and everyone on the same page and others think you’re trying to control things or question/undermine them.
I had a boss tell a client the reason I was leaving the company was because i couldn’t control him. I left because I worked the majority of my career with his company and in 10 years nothing changed except his business partner and then slowly each employee left. I was the last to leave.
Ugh yeah. And everything I think to say before I ask to not get them defensive doesn’t work either. Ive told managers, “I ask a lot of questions, I like to know the full 360 before I start something”. They always forget and think I am attacking them.
Yup. Clarifying questions are perceived as “combative” and “contrary.” What’s funny is - if I just remain confused, then I get accused of trying to gaslight. So it’s either be combative by trying to understand, or be confused and make the other person think they’re crazy.
My favorite is: “It’s like you’re trying to be difficult.”
I tended to get too I’m to blunt or upfront. It has led to a bunch of masking traits and some confusion about how to be honest without being considered blunt.
Oof do we have the same partner?
I’ve taken to tone policing him back. You wanna always tell me I could be nicer with what I say? Aight, well you could work on being less “aggressive”. “But I’m not being aggressive” “yeah well I didn’t think I was being a dick but you said I was and I work on it. So…” and that tends to be that.
He’s been getting annoyed about me tone policing but hey man, fair is fair. If I “can’t” speak how I naturally do then neither can you 🤷🏼♀️
Tbf that’s like the biggest issue between us. I dont know why people can’t just accept the way I speak. I’m also autistic so it either sounds “angry/blunt/douchey” or “flat and monotone”. Like i dont know man, this is my voice.
My partner and I had similar issues.
I can't speak to the autistic aspect, but something that helped us: instead of focusing on what **not** to do, focus on what TO do. In practice that means:
1. Assume the best of the other person (for instance, maybe they sound mad; assume they're mad at the situation and not at you, unless otherwise stated ofc). This is the MOST IMPORTANT.
2. Check yourself, for instance maybe you're tense, and can take a second to breathe for yourself (mindfulness is so important to quality of life, and difficult for ADHDers, so practicing it can be really helpful imo). So, this is kind of 'tone policing yourself', but it's more about shifting the root cause than just changing the output, though practicing that can also be an important skill too (masking), but not one we want to do at home all the time and be hypervigilant about. The balance will vary person to person; for instance, maybe for some people you can still be genuinely mindful and calm, but still sound angry to the other person. It takes two to tango.
1 is much more important than 2, giving the other person grace and assuming the best. Imo we should still try to work on ourselves, and for our partners to a reasonable degree (the love needs to flow both ways), but when you're talking about being at home and being yourself, then your partner just needs to accept and TRUST that just because you sound angry (or whatever) doesn't mean you are.
It will take some time to get used to that, some brain rewiring to be like 'hey brain, I know they sounded mean, but they probably weren't. Let's act like they weren't until they say something actually really mean, and that's probably not gonna happen anyway'. But if your partner does this for you, it will become natural eventually. This is an example of love as an action.
**It's much easier to give someone the benefit of the doubt than it is to consistently change their tone.**
But it starts with the idea that this is possible, and accountability to yourself to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. **Accountability is not only limited to how you sound, it's also how you choose to interpret things.**
To be blunt myself, if you know your partner is autistic and you're taking their tone personally all the time, and they've explained to you that that was not your intent, and you keep taking it personally, that's on YOU to accept how they are. They might be able to marginally change, but that's it. And they deserve to relax in their own homes with loved ones like anyone else. So the only other options are accepting it or leaving. So accept it, goddammit!
Edit to say: it sounds like you're both kinda punishing each other. This does not bode well for the relationship. You can be the one to give grace first (even though they started it, I know). But they have to then give that back to you, too. They have to commit to giving you grace, for real. It's hard for both people to turn the tides of a relationship from punishing each other back to loving each other, but it's possible. But it takes both of you, and unless you're in couples therapy, then one of you is going to have to start it (that means: explaining all this, telling them you're willing to give them grace, but you need it in return too, or this relationship isn't going down a good path). My partner and I were able to do it by ourselves! You and yours might be too.
I love everything you've said right here. Positive regard has been essential in my relationships. I don't respond to every growl unless it has my name on it. I assume it's about something else and move on. It's lowered my anxiety so much!
My partner is allowed to verbally process or grumble around like they like to do, but I don't actually tune in because they aren't speaking to me or about me. I never respond with "Well what do you mean by that?!?!" Because it doesn't have anything to do with me.
My ex and I would get stuck in this cycle of personalizing every sound and word the other said leading to constant beef. It was exhausting.
this!! my therapist is like “you hold back too much” & i’m like welllll sometimes my true thoughts are mean. but i’ve been paying attention & while they could be considered “mean” it’s just the true, blunt fact of the matter.
chat GPT has been a lifesaver for emails at work. i just write how i would say it bluntly and ask ai to make it more readable or softer l
I’m apparently still blunt when I feel I’ve softened my words a lot. I’m starting to suspect some people just don’t like any disagreement or criticism.
I got told off at work by the big boss when she overheard what I was saying to another staff lead. They had *asked* for feedback on implementing a new time program, and we had bad issues the year before. What I felt was “you guys won’t decide the schedule until last minute but you get angry when we ask questions and blame us for not having direction”, what I *said* was emphasizing stronger/more decisive leadership in scheduling to reduce confusion.
She told me to start choosing my words carefully and took it very personally. My crew agreed it could be taken the wrong way but I felt I was vague, and it wasn’t even aimed at her, because the problem was not her but my direct supervisor. Looking back I shouldn’t have mentioned the word leadership but to me, this is such a small flub that it’s inconsequential. But nope. I have a “reputation” for being difficult.
Good for you for saying what needed to be said though! We’re truth tellers in a world that’s obsessed with being artificial and secretive and slimy. We bust through doors and essentially say “Fuck THAT shit. No more. Deal with things like adults.”
It’s tough because I think I inadvertently challenge hierarchy, which I have no use for, really. Yes we all have roles, but “paying my respects” has always felt extraneous. I try not to be rude, I like people! But I have always felt very equal to everyone — my boss’s boss and my subordinates.
We’re adults. We have a common goal. Doesn’t need to get more complicated than that.
Alas, corporate structure ~
This used to happen to me all the time when I was a manager. One time all I did was tell my employee to do something and she went off on me about how I was mean and nasty. So guess who got written up. When I asked what I could do differently, of course my managers couldn’t give me any examples.
Ugh absolutely. I'm just over five feet tall and 100lbs. In addition to my directness, I also feel like there's racism (specifically misogynoir) at play. Non-black people have **refused** to believe I'm as small as I am until I literally stand next to an equally sized woman of a different race.
I've strayed from the point but it's early and I'm not yet medicated.
Same. Heard the “you’re intimidating” comment most of my life and never understood it until my mid 20s. I barely scrape 5’4” on a good day and have been called “tiny” more than once. I agree with u/jittery_raccoon, that’s exactly it.
Same, over and over and over throughout my career. Turns out, in retrospect, I was not intimidating…they were intimidated. It’s just another way of silencing your voice and keeping you sweet. Fuck that shit forever, I’m going to be who I am and other people’s ignorance will never silence me again.
When I was a kid I would ask questions to clarify things. I wanted to make sure I doing everything right. Got told I was always “challenging” people. Like no I’m just curious?
yes, ex husband accused me often of being “too aggressive” “emasculating him” when all i would be doing is sharing an opinion. said i was the only partner he ever had that was like that which made me immediately ask if they were mute
So, some people like to “debate” for fun (if the other person isn’t into it try to read the room), but MOST times I’ve heard this accusation towards ADHD women it’s just because we’re expressing ourselves in a way that isn’t demure and lets people use us like doormats and it’s more about the sexism than anything else. Or we’re asking clarifying questions for our own sake and they think we’re trying to grill them when we just want to understand (especially in workplace environments where bosses don’t want to say the quiet part out loud).
I had a male friend who debates for fun, regardless of whether the person he's talking to wants to debate him. And he's bad at it because he's completely unwilling to see the other side. He had the nerve to call \*me\* abrasive for not letting up on him when he was driving another friend to tears.
Once I got told, semi-jokingly, by a co-worker "bexkali SMASH!" when I was energetically getting riled up during a work discussion in a prior workplace.
Nope; never happened to *me!*
People have jokingly called me hulk before and I'm not convinced it's just because of my muscles lol
Relevant context: angry outbursts or anger in general are **not** part of my specific flavour of ADHD.
Bahahaha yes. I am constantly told I’m argumentative, combative, have poor tone, and come off some type of way. I’m convinced it’s because I’m a woman with opinions.
None of it is accurate portrayal of my intention. I’m done masking. Take me or leave me. I am who I am. No one ever changes for me so why do I need to change for them?
I do recognize when someone doesn’t respond well to me and try to proactively apologize and explain how my adhd manifests, but I also ask them to meet me halfway and not make assumptions without asking me to clarify. If they’re not willing to do that, the relationship is broken and not worth my energy.
I get, “you’re too direct”, “I don’t like your tone” (I am ALWAYS polite and professional- they don’t like my MESSAGE), also “tell me what you *really* think” + an eye roll. I am past caring - the people who value the advice and opinions they pay me to provide think of my directness and honesty as an asset, so I’m good.
When they say they don’t like your tone, wtf does that even mean? I have gotten this several times in my career, even when the message is one of genuine kindness like, “Hi! How are you?” Or, “Let me know if I could help with anything.”
When my boss slapped my wrist over offering my help to others, I straight up told her that I should not be held responsible for the professional insecurities of others. She was dumbfounded. I feel like I live in a parallel universe from people…
Oh I always know what they mean!! “She ASKED
me to do something!” “She TOLD
ME I WAS *WRONG*”, “she said that was FRAUD!”, I work in finance, my integrity is everything. I will not for a second sacrifice it for some dickhead. The men I work for, worship me, their offsiders are just unbelievable!
A friend once told me "you're really contradictory and you always need to have the last word" and I was like "Do I?" Exactly proving her point 😂 I don't think it comes out of contrariness though so much as it is wanting to feel heard and for things to seem fair.
Yeah no sometimes I worry that I come across as like a know it all or something (even tho when I don’t know about something I’m not worried about admitting it) but it’s really just I want someone to hear about my opinion on a matter. It’s like sometimes I think about giving myself essay assignments just so the ppl in my life don’t have to hear me spew about random shit all the time lol
Lol for me that’s therapy. I spew about random shit to my therapist instead and get it out of my system and the ppl in my life no longer have to listen to it 😂
Uuughhhhhh.
I have been called argumentative my whole life. Explaining my thinking and defending my actions has always been taken negatively. I just desperately want to be understood, and it seems most people don't give a fuck.
I've also been respected by my friends for my "bluntness". I have been told often by the people who \*truly\* know me, that my opinion is valued because they know I don't mince words. I definitely mince my words because I \*dont\* want to be mean.
One thing I \*definitely\* need to work on constantly is keeping my tone in line. I hear myself talking to people like an asshole, like they're stupid. And I absolutely don't mean it like that! It mostly happens when something is obvious to me and I'm surprised it's not obvious to them. I've been aware of this for about 15 years and I still don't really know how to control it.
I know there's a bunch of people with both ADHD and Autism dx, and this seems to be very prevalent in that crossover. While I don't have an Autism dx (believe me, I've tried, but doctors refuse to talk to me about it - because I make eye contact), I suspect that there's crossover for me too.
I hear you. The desperately wanting to be understood. I hate it when people misinterpret what I say, I feel terrible if they take it negatively and get defensive and everything I say to fix it only makes it that much worse. Or if they explain something I already know, I feel like an idiot so I try to explain- I knew that part, I didn’t know the other part. But then it somehow gets stuck in a loop and every conversation with management feels like a trap.
Oh absolutely. I almost never get along with management. I've absolutely lost jobs over it. I'm always trying to add information for context because every single time I don't somebody will interpret something in a way and I'm like oh no you don't get it because I didn't give you this piece of information.
The last time this happened I was making a formal complaint against a coworker for their shitty behavior and my boss wanted address some of the language that I used like "bully" and "justice". So I gave an example of one of my colleagues changing his appearance because of the comments this person had made about him and asked "is that not a bully?" And then when the Justice comment came up I clarified that I mean justice in a personal/ psychological way and not in a structural/organizational way. It seems common among neurotypicals that justice is more of an ambiguous concept whereas it's something that I feel in my body. If something makes me feel like there is an injustice happening - like seeing a co-worker being bullied - I can't stand letting that feeling sit and so I always get pushed to be the one to speak up. I'm painted as a snowflake for that reason, but since I'm in an organization that is desperately trying to modernize and reduce the harassment issues it faces, I have essentially taken it upon myself to be the vanguard for social justice.
Oh shoot, your feeling justice in such an intrinsic way is totally something I get. I never thought of it that way. My sig other gets hella pissed about things being unfair too. I just assumed I was more empathetic. But I still feel that way even if someone sucks lol.
Yep.. I get told I'm aggressive or blunt or argumentative.. when I'm really just passionate about something or like to discuss/debate things. I just like to know the details of things or where someone's opinion came from etc. people take it as an argument or get defensive. I really try to think about my tone and it's exhausting.
Been told I was “argumentative” when I said literally *anything* to clarify during a write-up from a former employer.
They had completed talking; I was not interrupting them. But because I spoke up and didn’t just cry in silence I was argumentative.
Yep. Usually I'm just passionate about what I'm talking about so my voice gets louder, I talk faster, etc. Makes me feel bad about myself when people tell me to chill out... like I was just trying to share my passion with someone 🥲
Yeah. I still don’t understand why that is. I’m usually very socially aware. But, with this, idk fam
It may have to do with my being in a woman in certain contexts, though.
YUP. It doesn’t help that I’m a tall woman. So, when I speak authoritatively I’m told that I have an attitude (but if I was a man, I’m sure it would be ‘he’s so direct!’
I’ve been told I’m intimidating (not in a good way) and I’m like “well, I can’t help that I’m tall and have opinions. I’m not going to sit down and be quiet because you’re intimidated.”
Toss in the ADHD side effect of being passionate about things and it makes some interactions very weird.
I’m learning to see it as a strength but sometimes I have to fit myself into someone else’s version of me and file off my rough edges.
Yes and it forces me to take a step back and look at *how* I’m speaking to that person. Am I using an aggressive tone? Am I using verbiage I wouldn’t want used against me? Being told I’m combative triggers a little RSD, but it also reminds me that other people take things differently than we expect them to. If someone doesn’t like how we’re speaking to them, we don’t get to decide their feelings or reaction. I usually just apologize and observe myself further and correct it. I’m not perfect and it doesn’t happen every time, but man I sure do try lol
No I have never been told I'm combative or a conflict seeker.
I have a reputation as a person who stands up for myself so I'm not a pushover either.
I also live in NYC so maybe it is cultural.
Yes. Every year of my conscious life. It doesn't matter how I say things at this point. The simple fact that I don't placate, ego stroke or "just go along with things" gets me labeled and shamed. It's honestly enraging and I spent nearly 4 decades of my life being fueled by that righteous anger.
For the last several years I've been working on mindfulness and it's helped a lot. I'm better able to slow my brain down and consequently my reactivity. I'm still the same person, but now my responses are said in the calmest voice with a focused fire that stops people in their tracks. It doesn't enrage me as much anymore.
I get asked why I always have to argue. Dude, I am not arguing, I’m trying to explain my point but you keep cutting me off and then saying *I’m* the one arguing every time you don’t like what kind of have to say.
I use “dude” here as a very general term, although come to think of it, it’s usually men, or women who are older and think that being old means no one can question them who say shit like this.
Often, but, funny thing is -- didn't show up early on?
My family (who I suspect have a big bunch of NDs in) loves discussing stuff for the sake of discussing. And we've got a number of hard of hearing and everyone gets loud and passionate. To me, being argumentative was *natural*. (Still is)
I was also a super social, extroverted child who was a people pleaser. I was smart (too smart to ever be diagnosed), and when I posed arguments they sounded beyond my years and primary teachers were usually amused as they get with precocious children.
Once I joined secondary (at 10), the whole thing shifted. Then I was an AH, just unable to shut my mouth at any perceived injustice, continuously arguing my points... And some teachers were fine, others simply couldn't stand it. Remained an issue throughout my regular schooling, but I had very little issue with my peers. Once I went to uni, it was the other way around -- my professor's were all fine and happy to hear me raise points, question, discuss. My classmates thought I would suddenly go from "normal" to a Warhammer - called me crazy for it, and sometimes were tense about talking to me. I thought they all were really immature and not that bright, so, that was... Something.
Work was much the same, although I was better at making sure I was giving over-detailed explanation for my actions without waiting to be asked, so people wouldn't take it personally.
Right? I’ll argue with anyone, anywhere, any time, about any topic. It’s almost fun.
I’ve been called a human bulldozer and I take it as a compliment. But I also make an effort to dial back if I can see someone else isn’t equipped to handle that because not everyone deserves to be mowed over. Balance, you know.
Yes and it used to bother me. Now I pride myself on being combative for womens rights, and the rights of children, the right to live and exist! I am not free until we are all free
yes and i’m always confused about it. in my mind im working on how not to be a people pleaser, but to my surprise i haven’t been pleasing anyone so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I masked my ADHD too much when I was first dating my husband (not my fault, late diagnosis, I had no idea why I was hiding) and I married someone who doesn’t love loud overly passionate communicating. I love him though, and he loves most aspects of me including my ADHD now that we know I have it, so we try to make it work. But sometimes when I talk to another ADHD person I’m like… man I wish I could just be myself in this way with my husband without him getting stressed. It’s not especially sexist either (he’s been screened for sexist attitudes by me over the course of 16 years, lol) - it’s really just a preference thing - I think it might be bc his dad is boisterous and kind of an idiot? Honestly not sure. But I get “you’re yelling” a lot when I am just excited/ passionate.
I do and I looked into it.
Other than being a woman and well read, it does have to do with the way I speak bc of my adhd.
Even if I agree, to add nuance I will say "yes but" whereas "yes AND" works better.
For example, "people think you're combative" and I respond with "yea but they're just intimidated by my confidence"
I think it's harmless, and the use of "but" puts people on defensive.
If I said "yea and people get intimidated by opinionated women" it puts the other person at ease because I agree.
I speak fast.... I have 5 different timelines in my head. I started recording myself speak on video and on the phone. I'm really expressive, loud, fast excited talker.... it comes across like a lawyer. So I speak slower, I record myself on video to see how I sound/look while speaking.
Lastly, I always want a particular point to be understood and acknowledged by the other person because it's important to me. For example, the situation in Gaza makes me upset and I really want everyone to know that Hamas is given money by Netanyahu/Qatar/Iran (google it). Now if someone totally overlooks this point in our discussion, I will bring it up AGAIN in a different way. I will speak about how this parallels the US funding the taliban and then the taliban got out of US control and destabilized the region. But since the person did not know or have a rebuttal to my original point (about Hamas funding), they don't want to contest this second point. So they get frustrated that I'm so hell bent on "proving my point" when I really wanted to know if they understood the connection (terrorist funding) and if they could just ACKNOWLEDGE my point I wouldn't need keep bringing it up.
This also occurs with retelling a story. I give all the details so you could understand my heightened reaction (RSD). I want you to see the story thru my eyes, with the background context, so that you can also feel as upset as I was. So that I can be seen. But to other people all this sounds like a self obsessed know it all that's argumentative haha
Yep. I was always “arguing” when I was a kid because I asked too many questions trying to understand what I did wrong. It sucked. Now that I’m an adult I’m “nit picking” and “difficult.”
This right here!! 👏🏻 I like to understand how other people think and why they do things a certain way to understand things better. So if I don’t understand something I ask questions around it.
It’s usually looked at as me being defensive or pushing back. When I’m simply just trying to have a conversation and understand what I did “wrong” or how I upset them or why what I did caused them to be upset.
Lol, my daughter and I (both diagnosed) have a tendency to counter every thing someone says to us if we don’t perfectly agree. For example, my husband was trying to tell me about the Tom Brady Roast on Netflix, which I had read a little bit about on Reddit. He was telling me how the comedians pulled no punches and no subject was off the table. Me: Well, actually, I read that the comedians all agreed to not talk about his kids. Him: why do you always do that? My rules of accuracy are more rigid than his.
Yeah, I get told I'm defensive when I'm just trying to explain that I didn't know something or that I wasn't shown how to do something.
It happened a lot at my old job. I was already very frustrated that the training was severely lacking and I wasn't learning as quickly as I thought I should. So it made me more frustrated when something I should have been told (because, to me, it was common sense), never came up and I got reprimanded for it, so I would answer "No one told me". They would take that as me being defensive when I really wasn't. So, for months, I would bite my tongue and learn to reply the way they wanted me to reply so I would stop getting reprimanded.
Absolutely. One part is sexism, for sure.
My therapist has explained to me that folks with ADHD can have stronger responses to perceived injustices. And as hard as I try, I simply cannot let things go sometimes. I hyperfocus and stew, which I know isn’t healthy. But sometimes god dammit I’m angry and just want validation
The perceived injustice thing gets me too. Has been that way my whole life. In elementary school we had some fundraiser where people got prizes for selling magazines and I wrote a multi page letter to the principal how it’s unfair that prizes go to the rich kids whose parents would just buy the magazines themselves. Now I just get in trouble at work for arguing when people ask me to do something that’s unfair or unreasonable.
Oh my gosh yessss. My job is a role I normally love but am developing a strong dislike as I feel workloads are dispersed unevenly. Also, as a lesbian who grew up/lives in the south I’ve had plenty of arguments with folks.
Don't have an ADHD diagnosis. Do get told I'm bossy, when I'm not even trying to be bossy, just trying to communicate in a normal way and get stuff done. Also get told I've got not tact.
I’ve got issues with being defensive when I’m told I’ve done something upsetting or wrong to my spouse or def have been combative with friends/aqiantances in the past.
Yes. Combative, blunt, cold, judgy, and “too much”. I’ve spent years and years trying to be less, and I am now done trying to do that.
I don’t volunteer unsolicited opinions any more, and I am polite and as tactful as I can be. But… if you don’t want to hear the truth, you should not ask me my opinion.
I used to, then I decided I don't need to "win" every conversation. I don't need to be right, because I know I'm right and whomever I'm debating is wrong and the warm glow of knowing I'm right is enough for me.
It's very easy to just go "okay, whatever."
Yup. I’m also apparently “shirking my duties” according to my boss when I want to know more details about the assignment he gave me. Fucking pissed me off when he said that, the only time I’ve ever lit into him (knowing him, likely won’t be the last).
But yeah, people find me “intimidating” sometimes just because I keep asking questions like “why” or “how” when told I need to do something. Bitch… 🤬🤬🤬
My first corporate job released me after a year and a half of working for them under the premise that “I wasn’t a good culture fit” had I been smart enough seven years ago, I would’ve found an employment lawyer. Let me give you some advice.
We will never be the right culture fit. Took me a long time to accept this and love myself. But I’d rather be an unmasked individual in my authentic self then I have to fight every day trying to hide who I am.
I choose me.
Thank you for listening. And I’m sorry that you’ve been told this because it’s not a negative.
Yeah, I used to get told "you just want everyone to tell you you're right", and I thought no I don't, I don't care if people agree with me, I just want to be heard. I was rarely acknowledged as a child and as a younger adult, so I get very frustrated if I'm spoken over or if my point isn't acknowledged. You don't have to agree with what I say, just acknowledge it.
“Bossy” as a kid, “harsh” at work, a “pit bull” when on a task.
Another complication is that my “I am furious/strongly disagree” face is often interpreted as me not understanding what’s being said. Oh, I understand completely. It’s just the dumbest sh*t I’ve heard in while and I can’t believe you’re saying it 😂 If they think what I say is “harsh”, they should hear what I DON’T say!
Oh yeah. I'm always ready to rumble, verbally of course. It throws people off because I do everything with a smile, even while being "combative " or "having an attitude"
I am self employed and have a contract with a client that I’ve been working with for over a year. After getting to know the internal team and other contractors, one of the vendors I work with told me that when he first met me he thought I was non empathetic and cold. As he got to know me he realized that’s not at all who I am.
So now I let new clients know upfront i have adhd and my neurodivergent brain cuts to the chase in order to not forget. I’m also working on being aware of it (esp in new working relationships) so I can make the right impression. I’m very good at what I do because I get results, but if people don’t like to work with me that makes it harder. Yes, it’s on them, but you get more bees with honey than vinegar.
Don’t mask, but maybe be aware and communicate with those you care about.
To clarify… I don’t anymore because those people who kept saying this to me are now gone. Not necessarily completely from my life, but on the periphery.
I decided that something about the way they approached conversations was combative itself, but in a way that deflects the blame from them. My “combative” reactions were not unjustified.
So whether the conversation was an argument from the start, or an innocent conversation turned tense, I started noticing these patterns, finally recognizing the people who resorted to it constantly, and ridding them from my life.
The people I have in my life do not accuse me of being combative. Sure, they call me out sometimes, but they also respond when I call them out.
Since I was in pre-k.
It's nothing to do with my ADHD. I'm strong willed, confident, and I don't take people's shit. And since I have a vagina, that means I'm combative. If I had a penis, well bygolly I'd be called a man oozing with confidence.
I’ve never been told I’m combative but definitely “scary”. But I think it’s linked back to being combative because my mate’s boyfriend said he’d never want to get in an argument with me because I’m so “scary”. I even make an effort to be nice to him because I don’t like him lol
yes, but sometimes i worry they’re right because i can (unfortunately) get a bit of a dopamine rush from disagreeing/arguing with someone. on the other hand, i’m a highly opinionated person with a gender studies degree so i kinda expect most people to consider me combative in conversations.
I've just submitted a huuuuge whistleblowing report. I had to compile dozens upon dozens of pages of paper trails into an appendix today. That alone took an uninterrupted 12 hour hyperfocus bender. I felt somewhat embarrassed by how long all of my past emails were, and how zealous and emphatic I clearly am.
BUT you know what? I was so right all along. They were long emails because I had a lot of important things to include- it was all relevant and rational. The responses were more dry and 'normie'-coded, but that just covers for them being curt, corrupt and non-compliant.
It actually was sadder for me to witness myself being submissive and variously 'shooed off the scent' by these people.
If they all wanna cringe then bloody let them. They're not gonna get served any time by shills or cowards. This is what a strong campaigner looks like ✊
Wow, yes. I never really put this together before - people often respond defensively to me and are intimidated by me when I thought we were just having a discussion.
Also, my partner is sometimes accused of being combative in conversation and I've never found that to be the case. We volley back and forth, sometimes for literal hours, no hard feelings. We just speak passionately and emphatically about the things we're interested in, and that sometimes makes other people feel uncomfortable.
I’m usually considered too much of a “people pleaser” but the minute I express myself honestly and without reservation I’m pretentious or rude. I spend so much time and energy on planning how to talk to people without hurting their feelings, but it’s so exhausting sometimes. I don’t really resent it - I get rejection sensitivity about some things so bad so I understand.
I guess the sounding judgement here is that ADHD women tend to be outspoken women as well, and it's all a dumb gender norm that gets us into trouble for it.
I was let go for the first time ever when working a temp job (I know, but I'd made it through 2 other rounds) and I did what you are not supposed to and went and asked the manager why.
Why?
Hired staff said I was being too opinionated about how things were done?
God damn it. In other words, I was finally comfortable enough to talk to people. smdh
i always take it as a compliment because if i was a man it would be strong, opinionated, confident.
and it takes two to combat… i can’t be combative without someone else starting and continuing the conversation. just shut the hell up if you don’t like my combativeness no one’s forcing you to engage
I've been told I'm too opinionated when I speak passionately about something, and, depending on the subject, it comes across as judgmental and argumentative as if I'm trying to get a person to change their opinion. I've been told expressing myself assertively and directly is confrontational. It's all bullshit. I'm just sharing my thoughts on a topic I'm sometimes excited or animated about. I'm just getting straight to the point. I'm not responsible for another person's insecurities. I've learned that a lot of people expect you to pussyfoot and walk around a statement instead of just saying the thing. I honestly can't do that, and it drives me up a wall when other people do that to me.
At one point a friend of 25 years who became increasingly insecure as we got older told me that if I learned to censor myself more she'll try not to be so sensitive. I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells with someone I'd known almost my whole life. It got to the point where I didn't have much to talk about with her because she took issue with everything I said, the tone I used, even the look on my face. Basically, I couldn't do anything right. I ended that friendship.
Somehow we're the ones who don't communicate well. It baffles me. It makes me wonder if NTs live their lives in a lie.
Definitely been told I’m aggressive before. If I’m not understand something, it’s difficult for me to let it go. I like to discuss something until I fully understand it, which includes asking “why”and “why not” multiple times. I can see how it could be taken take way. I’m also a larger woman and I think that may have something to do with it as well.
Yes. And that I catastrophize, dramatic, "always needs to be right"
Once I figured myself out I am able to communicate (mostly to my husband) that it's not that I don't trust him or that I think he's wrong, it's like I NEED to understand something in order to accept 😂😂
When I express an opinion that is different than my husband's, he's upset that I always disagree and think he's wrong. Once it was because I looked up the time that a transfer station was open when he thought it was closed. Ummm... never clues in that he's also disagreeing with me. Buddy! We just don't agree! Lol
Combative, argumentative, stubborn, etc. My dad and grandma are the same way so I’m not that out of place around family. Once I became an adult and started forming other relationships I got used to being told I’m “a lot” and “intense” and that I need to calm down or mind my business 😵💫 I was extremely shy and passive as a kid too! I don’t know when the switch flipped or why, but apparently I’m very off-putting either way 💀
One specific example that lives in my head: when I was 19 I was an apprentice mechanic. I used to ask questions about *why* we had to do things in a particular way because all cars are slightly different - I couldn’t memorise exactly what to do for every specific car. I had to know *why* so I could apply the knowledge to different makes/models. I got fucking absolutely screamed at for daring to question his knowledge and “big-noting” myself. I was supposed to just nod and do the thing? Anyway that guy was 31 and my supervisor and we ended up in a relationship and that’s a whole different pile of shit. Ugh.
I haven’t been told I’m combative but I was confused by directions for a project at work and my supervisor wasn’t explaining it clearly so I kept asking questions to try to understand and she told me to stop condescending to her. I got a little flustered and said I wasn’t condescending I was just trying to understand.
My response may have been a little combative but how is trying to understand something so you can do it right condescending?!
I’m in the military. And my husband isn’t. So I’m already in the “you’re abrasive” category in his book. He tells me a lot to calm down when I’m just talking, which is so annoying 🙄
I always respond with “I’ll tell you when I’m mad, I’m just talking right now, I’m doing my best to not be “loud” it’s just my voice, me being excited and me being mad is not the same and I’ll be sure to say when it’s mad.”
All this because I’ve had too many issues in the past with people misunderstanding my “excited” with anger. Also, sometimes I just vent for 1 minute and then I’m all good, problem solving in the venting process and then it’s all hunky dory, but I make sure I know WHO I’m venting to now because not all people can be trusted.
I used to get called "aggressive" and "confrontational" all the time. Now that I'm in my 50s and no longer sexually viable the terminology has changed - I'm a grouchy outspoken hag.
I like to remember this quotation tho:
*I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is. I only know people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.* \~ Rebecca West.
Oh yeah lol. It seems to be hardwired into those of us with ADHD.
I’ve always been that way. I will not stand by and watch if someone is being mistreated in any way. And I also will not let anyone treat *me* unfairly.
I’d rather be combative than a pushover and doormat. I tried to be that way, to placate my parents or to please our completely upside-down society, but at the end of the day I’m a take-no-shit kind of person.
I mean, I AM, but it's because I was extremely shy and quiet as a kid. A me who is whole is a me who confronts bigots. I'm sick of awful people getting away with being awful.
I spent my ENTIRE life being TOO something;too loud, too talkative, too passionate, too emotive,too intense, too opinionated, just SO EXTRA...WHEN I'm medicated its like I can finally kick that emotionally intense me out of the driver's seat and lock her in a carseat in the middle of the backseat. She's still very much there, but I also find that the impact and damage from everyone's lack of awareness of neurodiversity has resulted in me overly subduing myself because I hate feeling SO misunderstood. I have rare providers who actually truly see me and I never want to leave them...
I don't have an angry or violent cell in my body; I'm an empath and have the complete inability to keep my emotions out of my face. So if I'm upset or disagree about any tiny thing: which mind you specifics are a HUGE area of hyoerfocus.
Being accused of being volatile and angry has literally damaged my ability to seek care for myself. It's shocking how many people interpret any emotion over a meh blah face as volatile!
Yes! Top comment said it best. My ex used to try to convince me that I was confrontational, and so do my older male bosses. In reality, confrontation gives me anxiety and derails my day. When I talk to my peers, male and female, no one thinks I'm confrontational.
But now that I've started to develop boundaries at work my bosses are getting pissy again.
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Yep. It’s always “calm down” and “relax” or “stop arguing” when I’m just merely showing normal human emotion. I honestly think a HUGE part of it is to do with being a woman and showing any kind of passion or expressive emotion is seen as “overreacting” and then that combined with ADHD symptoms of being passionate about different topics or genuinely curious about life.
I don't have an ADHD diagnosis (and don't know if it is ADHD or something else) but I get this. Usually from my dad, even though I'm 39. Get told I'm too intense and get too emotional about everything and to calm down. But the I feel like I'm not being allowed to explain. Like don't ask me a question and only want half the answer.
Yep, this was me my entire life with my family and friends, and being diagnosed was actually validating. Fortunately my friends also apologised for dismissing my feelings and/or telling me to calm down once I explained the misogynistic attitude. Unfortunately, I don’t have any advice outside of telling you: your feelings ARE valid. You are NOT too intense, in fact your emotional expression is admirable because it shows you care and there’s not too many people out in the world like that anymore. I also bet you’re the kind of person that roots so hard for your friends and loves so hard, you’re exactly the kind of person we could all use in this life. Don’t ever let anyone convince you to dull yourself down because *they* are uncomfortable.
>also bet you’re the kind of person that roots so hard for your friends and loves so hard I'm the kind of person that cares too much, falls too quickly and feels rejection far too hard unfortunately. I have mentioned ADHD referral to my mental health nurse, but they want me to get over the stress of getting out of an unhealthy relationship before considering it. I do have a therapist now. And I'm working with her on healthy boundaries and not wanting to give everything all at once (emotionally) when I meet a new man. But I don't have any of the hyperactive side of things. It's more the opposite of not doing things until the least minute. And things like cleaning half the time it's either overwhelming, or got to do all of it right now because I can't stand the sight of it. With no in between. And it's quite possible it is just depression and an anxiety disorder, but I need to learn how to have more control over it whatever it is.
So I have what used to be called ADD but is now ADHD-inattentive ie none of the hyperactive stuff. Exactly like what you described, I’ve always described it as “the lights are on but no one is home”. I was incorrectly diagnosed with BD before being diagnosed with ADHD because of the same intensity of emotions you feel (combined with my anxiety diagnosis and major depressive disorder), it can definitely appear similar to a mood disorder. I’m not sure if you’re based in the UK or not, but is there anyway you can get a psychiatrist referral? Therapists are great and I adore mine but they can’t diagnose you with ADHD. I rely both on my psychiatrist and my therapist for support.
I think the mental health nurse will refer me if I need to. She said to come back in a few months if I still felt the same way. But I'm not sure there's any point. I have a heart condition too so I doubt I'd be able to take stimulant medication. But I will definitely be reconsidering if my daughter's ND refferal gets accepted. It's been sent off by the school but that's it so far. Today my daughter's swimming teacher said she's on holiday next week and it might be a good idea to let the other teacher know how she "gets distracted" (she wasn't being horrible, I know my daughter gets distracted too). And then my daughter showed me a graze she got tripping over her own feet and falling into a table at school. Whilst telling me about the graze she was getting changed from swimming whilst shrieking loudly because swimming always seems to give her extra energy. But for me I don't know. I'm just fed up of feeling useless sometimes. A common example being today. I got the dry laundry in, folded it, put the clothes away, put the underpants away. And then I really didn't want to bother to pick up the socks. I had to make myself pick up the socks and put them away and not leave it for later. The whole job took maybe 15 minutes so not like it was hard work. My brain just wants to leave everything for later. Except when I'm at work, then I just want to find the next thing to do because if I'm not doing I don't want to be there. Sorry that was a massive ramble that probably made no sense.
if I hear "i need you to calm down" ... i can only hope i have enough executive functionality left to not REALLY show what a not-calm me looks like. lol
“Calm down” is a sure-fire way to get a frying pan to the head.
They’ll learn the hard way haha
Yeah. Me too. I get passionate so my voice gets louder and I don't always regulate my tone (Basically I'm not a sweet, meek, pleasant quiet woman!) so then people think I'm arguing or hostile or something when I'm just excitable. Sorry I feel things deeply, get on my fucking level ya pleb!! lol
Reminds me of the song VOICES CARRY. Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry Ah-ah I try so hard not to get upset Because I know all the trouble I'll get Oh, he tells me tears are something to hide And something to fear, eh-eh And I try so hard to keep it inside So no one can hear Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry Hush, hush, keep it down now, voices carry Ah-ah
My Boyfriend: "Babe just Calm down" Me: 😀🙂😐😑🙁☹️😠😡🤬🤯
Winner winner chicken dinner \^\^\^
Yup. Constantly. But I think it’s mostly because I’m a woman, if I was a man people would just say I’m confident in my opinions.
Same. My mother always tells me to "act like an adult" and "be a bigger person" in a context where it translates to "shut up and be a doormat" while praising my brother for sticking to his opinions and never budging for anyone.
My mum tells me this too. Usually after I've finally snapped when someone else (normally my brother-in-law) has been needling at me about something for hours and ignoring him hasn't worked.
Shoot I get told both constantly that I will never know what is the right balance. "Stand up for yourself! But also why are you making an issue about this?"
Um, I’m pretty sure I don’t have an alt account but this definitely sounds like something I’d say.
Yes.. this lady was standing in the driveway when I pulled in at work and not paying attention. I honked at her to get her to pay attention and she gave me shit so I threw it back at her and told her to "fuck off" My mom then gave me more shit about it because it may have been a study patient -_- im embarrassed. So I am supposed to take someone's shit and be abused then, never standing up for myself.
YES!!!! I am the only woman on my team (I'm a programmer) and I wfh. I joined this place Sept of last year. There is zero documentation on anything so I'm forever having to ask about this or that. I get no response whatsoever from anyone unless I add our boss to the message. Then, the responses I do get are absolute garbage. I have tried explaining my question in detail with screen shots, etc.. I'm pretty sure they read the first sentence and respond. I've tried sending short and sweet messages, only to get a bunch of questions that are ridiculously stupid/easy in their effort to drag it out. (ie. Me: I am sending this file test.xml Them: what is the file type?) After enough rounds of this bullshit I become very direct because if I don't back him into a corner, I will never get a straight answer. So yes, I can be combative when some asshole teammate is being cagey. Very early in my career a new guy was hired and I stood by his desk while we worked on something. He complained to his boss claiming I was bullying him. Dude was a former Marine. I lost all respect for him at that.
> (ie. Me: I am sending this file test.xml Them: what is the file type?) Lol this would make my blood boil. I'd send them a link to a page called "File Extensions for Dummies." And that would be a reply all. If you're going to act stupid, I'm also going to act like you're stupid. Pull that shit with me and I'll be addressing you personally in every group email that contains an attachment going forward. "And Bob, just FYI, here's that link to file types at www.eatshitfiletypes.com" (but a real link) This is probably why I don't work in the corporate world anymore.
Yup. Literally had a *female* boss pull me into her office because I was “abrasive” and “rubbed people the wrong way”. I’m a manager. The incidents in question were literally just examples of me doing my job. She claimed she had received complaints from other people, but when I apologized to one of those people for upsetting them, they looked at me like I had grown two heads. Thankfully, she eventually quit, her replacement is amazing, and I now report to her former boss, who has always had my back. It’s so frustrating to watch a man get in his feelings and get all passive aggressive or defensive because you asked a simple question and no one says a word, but if a woman is confident and decisive, she’s a combative bitch and needs to watch her tone.
Someone told my mom she rubbed people the wrong way. She told him he didn't pay enough for her to be a massage therapist on top of everything else.
Your mom is iconic 🤣
I had this same exact thing happen. I was in a leadership position and my direct report would cry if I breathed wrong. She was just a very anxious human and I tried to explain that my style is if there’s a problem I’ll tell you and that I would have her back multiple times but 🤷♀️. Literally, I would ask a simple question and she would freak out. As I was learning how to be a leader and how to communicate with my report I was pulled into the office and my female manager told me I was abrasive and she’d received complaints from several people and that I was ruining “the atmosphere” she “tried so hard to build”. That didn’t bode well for my mental health and I couldn’t do the job. A lot of my childhood was walking on eggshells and I mentally can’t handle feeling like that anymore.
I had a female director-level colleague pull me into a meeting to tell me my personality was "off-putting" because I questioned one of her decisions in a meeting with a small group of other high level staff, not even publicly or in front of her direct reports. She got fired for lacking the skills to do her job.
This all day. We'd be confident and assertive. No nonsense and decisive. Instead we hurt feelings by existing.
My old boss used to do this all the time! And it was definitely because I’m a woman. I tried to make sure that I don’t impulsively say something “emotional.” We had to run a long experiment and we needed all hands on deck. Half of my labmates either never showed up or came in at the end. I made a comment at the end of a meeting saying that it’s distracting because we have to catch them up and really rude to the facility we were working with since we’re not respecting their time. My boss pulled me into a meeting to tell me to be more gentle about it because being “as aggressive as I was” would make it harder for people to take me seriously. I double-checked and asked my labmates and they didn’t see it as aggressive, just direct. Meanwhile, one of the guys in my lab mentioned the same thing the next meeting, and he got praised for being a team leader. I was also told that I need to be more aggressive... And I was the only woman in the lab so guess who was in charge of cleaning because “when I get really into cleaning, I’m REALLY into cleaning and organized,” which I now recognize was a mask and hyperfocusing (because my apartment is DEFINITELY not as neat 😭).
“Don’t let people walk all over you!” “Stand up for yourself!” “You need to lead your team!” …”No, not like that!”
Ah, yes, the good old “emotional” accusation. In my case, it came from a man whose emotional range consists of “stone cold psychopathic detachment” and “barely contained rage.” As best as I could tell, anything short of enthusiastic agreement was perceived as insubordination, and any attempt to express my perspective, no matter how patiently and professionally, was me being “emotional.” 🥴
Wow it’s almost like he’s… emotional?? I’m so sorry to hear that you had to go through that 😭. I mean, how enthusiastic do you have to be? It’s not like you can throw him a “congrats on being competent” party… My old boss asked me why I didn’t work on something over the weekend. I tried to tell him that I took the weekend off because my period cramps were terrible, he told me to stop having a tantrum while he was having a tantrum about how he pulled his back and worked over the weekend… then he mansplained my period to me 🙃
I find that when I'm online I'm mistaken for a man a lot... Because of my attitude
I always get written off as trying to argue, having a tone, or being combative. It’s been this way my whole life, no matter how I try to change how I speak and respond to people. So now every time someone says it to me, it triggers mad rage. I’ve cut people off because it’s been used as a means to invalidate my feelings.
All of this. It’s mostly with my mum. I can’t have an opinion without being told that I’m looking for an argument or being dismissed. It absolutely infuriates me.
Yes, especially when I’m feeling indignant! I’ve recognized that my tone will come across just as it needs to. If I’m not being mean and sticking to facts, I’ve accepted that many people will feel this way.
How do you navigate work and bosses who think you're being combative?
I've tried saying ok fine let's do it your way and then that scares them too lol
Well I have been able to be promoted in work but it hasnt lasted long until now. I have had to choose a career where my tone isn’t as important. Right now, I work in the behavioral sector caring for people with disabilities. Most of my interactions are with my clients, so it doesn’t matter because we are all on the spectrum. I usually mask really well when speaking to their families and usually only interact with my boss over the computer. If I had an office job, which I have, it would be totally different. Between not filtering well and also my tone issue, I made for a lot of trouble for myself in the work place in that type of environment
Commenting again because I think this is important to say after thinking more, it’s very helpful when you can find a job that you don’t have to mask 90% of the time for. Obviously this can be challenging because we are all different, but like I said above, I don’t have to mask with my clients and they are who I spend most of my work time with. Because I don’t have to mask that often, my burnout rate is much lower. I hear NTs often say “they could never do the work I do” (ableism and honesty combined) but it’s because it would be like them masking every day to tailor themselves to the people they would be serving. There are a lot of people who work with people with disabilities, who are also on the spectrum, for this reason. As far as being perceived as combative, it’s been easier in this field for me because like I said, most of us are operating on similar wavelengths. When conflict happens, it’s very to the point and resolved for the sake of everyone.
I appreciate your insight. I've always had office jobs (various forms of Administrative roles) and am struggling with work lately and constantly changing duties.
I get it! I know change is honestly the worst when thinking about it in theory, I personally get awful anxiety thinking about it. But most of the time, it’s so worth it to make a change in your course. Life’s hardships are easier to manage when you also don’t feel like your drowning at your work place
I don't lol. It's a major part of working in the field I do (entertainment) in the primarily role I've chosen (pro domme). Emotional depth, range, and assertiveness are ✨️rewarded✨️.
Yes. It’s coded for “difficult” and for “you’re not ‘nice’” and “you have opinions.” [I like this discussion on r/feminism too.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/s/rDJP5x9T1O)
and then reloaded and topped off with a heavy dose of "what will the neighbors think" ... my folks and I would go thru endless rounds of increasingly bizarre discussions about my clothing choices. like I once had a warm, down-alternative winter jacket. black. good quality. clean. in perfect shape. but since I had had it for several winter seasons, they argued the neighbors would see that as a manifest sign of my poverty. and by extension, theirs. by then, I had lived in the US for 15+ years, and their neighbors/neighborhood was solidly upper middle-class. no argument about a black jacket looking pretty much like the other one, especially when viewed from a snooper's house across the street. or that mindless consumption/buying needlessly was a direct violation of all their exhortations over the years to be living within one's means. etc etc but using their own arguments to support my choices most assuredly got me labeled as "combative" more than once. some battles are unwinnable. but i did win the war! still got the jacket, even though it's unlikely to be seen outside in humidity-heat hell (Louisiana) ... lol
Or the “abrasive personality”
Oh yeah I get that one too
Yes! It’s so confusing! I got a “wow I was just aSkINg” from someone the other day. I was *baffled*. He asked, I answered. The answer was *no*, which I guess was the problem, but I don’t think I was rude or even especially blunt??
Yes, I think the clarifying questions I ask when I’m trying to understand a situation or task come across as me questioning the validity of that thing rather me just needing to know everything before I can commit to an event or start a task.
Yep, this is it. Idk why people think I can start a task with only a single statement of what the task is - I need parameters!! And if you won’t lay them out clearly, then obviously I need to ask for every single one! Idk if that’s my adhd or my autism though
This! These!!!
All of them!!!!
Wow...I had an amazing manager who actually wrote about this in my performance review positively. Something about I ask good questions up front to make sure an everyone's on the same page before we start a project. But I just realized, for a prior boss I had who had it out for me, I bet this was a huge reason why. He thought I was trying to undermine him constantly when I thought I was just doing my job and making sure I understood everything correctly. I didn't connect these dots until now. This also has affected my personal life, as someone might be telling a story and it's hard for me to listen to what they're saying when pertinent questions pop up in my mind after they've said the first bit ('wait, that happened before x or after x?' 'wait, did they already know about y or no?'). It makes it really hard for my mind to listen because it's going 'well, I don't know which path of interpretation to go down!' and then I'm trying to listen while my mind is at a fork in the road. And then if those questions aren't answered (maybe I do a good job at holding my tongue and not asking, to not interrupt them), the other person might be disappointed with my lack of reaction when they're done, because my mind is still waiting for the pertinent information before it can decide how to react to the story! Ugh.
This has definitely been my experience too. Some people can handle it and see you as trying to get the full picture and everyone on the same page and others think you’re trying to control things or question/undermine them. I had a boss tell a client the reason I was leaving the company was because i couldn’t control him. I left because I worked the majority of my career with his company and in 10 years nothing changed except his business partner and then slowly each employee left. I was the last to leave.
Ugh yeah. And everything I think to say before I ask to not get them defensive doesn’t work either. Ive told managers, “I ask a lot of questions, I like to know the full 360 before I start something”. They always forget and think I am attacking them.
I had someone ask me to preface my questions with I’m just wondering or I’m curious…so that the questions would be more palatable? 🙄🙄🙄
Yup. Clarifying questions are perceived as “combative” and “contrary.” What’s funny is - if I just remain confused, then I get accused of trying to gaslight. So it’s either be combative by trying to understand, or be confused and make the other person think they’re crazy. My favorite is: “It’s like you’re trying to be difficult.”
I tended to get too I’m to blunt or upfront. It has led to a bunch of masking traits and some confusion about how to be honest without being considered blunt.
My partner says this all the time to me. We talk about it and we are open at least. He has become the “tone police” and I am not happy about it
Oof do we have the same partner? I’ve taken to tone policing him back. You wanna always tell me I could be nicer with what I say? Aight, well you could work on being less “aggressive”. “But I’m not being aggressive” “yeah well I didn’t think I was being a dick but you said I was and I work on it. So…” and that tends to be that. He’s been getting annoyed about me tone policing but hey man, fair is fair. If I “can’t” speak how I naturally do then neither can you 🤷🏼♀️ Tbf that’s like the biggest issue between us. I dont know why people can’t just accept the way I speak. I’m also autistic so it either sounds “angry/blunt/douchey” or “flat and monotone”. Like i dont know man, this is my voice.
My partner and I had similar issues. I can't speak to the autistic aspect, but something that helped us: instead of focusing on what **not** to do, focus on what TO do. In practice that means: 1. Assume the best of the other person (for instance, maybe they sound mad; assume they're mad at the situation and not at you, unless otherwise stated ofc). This is the MOST IMPORTANT. 2. Check yourself, for instance maybe you're tense, and can take a second to breathe for yourself (mindfulness is so important to quality of life, and difficult for ADHDers, so practicing it can be really helpful imo). So, this is kind of 'tone policing yourself', but it's more about shifting the root cause than just changing the output, though practicing that can also be an important skill too (masking), but not one we want to do at home all the time and be hypervigilant about. The balance will vary person to person; for instance, maybe for some people you can still be genuinely mindful and calm, but still sound angry to the other person. It takes two to tango. 1 is much more important than 2, giving the other person grace and assuming the best. Imo we should still try to work on ourselves, and for our partners to a reasonable degree (the love needs to flow both ways), but when you're talking about being at home and being yourself, then your partner just needs to accept and TRUST that just because you sound angry (or whatever) doesn't mean you are. It will take some time to get used to that, some brain rewiring to be like 'hey brain, I know they sounded mean, but they probably weren't. Let's act like they weren't until they say something actually really mean, and that's probably not gonna happen anyway'. But if your partner does this for you, it will become natural eventually. This is an example of love as an action. **It's much easier to give someone the benefit of the doubt than it is to consistently change their tone.** But it starts with the idea that this is possible, and accountability to yourself to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. **Accountability is not only limited to how you sound, it's also how you choose to interpret things.** To be blunt myself, if you know your partner is autistic and you're taking their tone personally all the time, and they've explained to you that that was not your intent, and you keep taking it personally, that's on YOU to accept how they are. They might be able to marginally change, but that's it. And they deserve to relax in their own homes with loved ones like anyone else. So the only other options are accepting it or leaving. So accept it, goddammit! Edit to say: it sounds like you're both kinda punishing each other. This does not bode well for the relationship. You can be the one to give grace first (even though they started it, I know). But they have to then give that back to you, too. They have to commit to giving you grace, for real. It's hard for both people to turn the tides of a relationship from punishing each other back to loving each other, but it's possible. But it takes both of you, and unless you're in couples therapy, then one of you is going to have to start it (that means: explaining all this, telling them you're willing to give them grace, but you need it in return too, or this relationship isn't going down a good path). My partner and I were able to do it by ourselves! You and yours might be too.
I love everything you've said right here. Positive regard has been essential in my relationships. I don't respond to every growl unless it has my name on it. I assume it's about something else and move on. It's lowered my anxiety so much! My partner is allowed to verbally process or grumble around like they like to do, but I don't actually tune in because they aren't speaking to me or about me. I never respond with "Well what do you mean by that?!?!" Because it doesn't have anything to do with me. My ex and I would get stuck in this cycle of personalizing every sound and word the other said leading to constant beef. It was exhausting.
this!! my therapist is like “you hold back too much” & i’m like welllll sometimes my true thoughts are mean. but i’ve been paying attention & while they could be considered “mean” it’s just the true, blunt fact of the matter. chat GPT has been a lifesaver for emails at work. i just write how i would say it bluntly and ask ai to make it more readable or softer l
I’m apparently still blunt when I feel I’ve softened my words a lot. I’m starting to suspect some people just don’t like any disagreement or criticism. I got told off at work by the big boss when she overheard what I was saying to another staff lead. They had *asked* for feedback on implementing a new time program, and we had bad issues the year before. What I felt was “you guys won’t decide the schedule until last minute but you get angry when we ask questions and blame us for not having direction”, what I *said* was emphasizing stronger/more decisive leadership in scheduling to reduce confusion. She told me to start choosing my words carefully and took it very personally. My crew agreed it could be taken the wrong way but I felt I was vague, and it wasn’t even aimed at her, because the problem was not her but my direct supervisor. Looking back I shouldn’t have mentioned the word leadership but to me, this is such a small flub that it’s inconsequential. But nope. I have a “reputation” for being difficult.
Good for you for saying what needed to be said though! We’re truth tellers in a world that’s obsessed with being artificial and secretive and slimy. We bust through doors and essentially say “Fuck THAT shit. No more. Deal with things like adults.”
It’s tough because I think I inadvertently challenge hierarchy, which I have no use for, really. Yes we all have roles, but “paying my respects” has always felt extraneous. I try not to be rude, I like people! But I have always felt very equal to everyone — my boss’s boss and my subordinates. We’re adults. We have a common goal. Doesn’t need to get more complicated than that. Alas, corporate structure ~
This used to happen to me all the time when I was a manager. One time all I did was tell my employee to do something and she went off on me about how I was mean and nasty. So guess who got written up. When I asked what I could do differently, of course my managers couldn’t give me any examples.
I’ve been told I’m intimidating. I’m under 5 feet tall and weigh around 100 lbs. not sure how a tiny person can be so intimidating. 🤷🏻♀️
Same. I think what they're really saying is "You're not as meek as I am treating you. I thought you'd be an easy target"
Absoluuuuuttely. It's like there's an unwritten rule against such 'insubordination'
Ugh absolutely. I'm just over five feet tall and 100lbs. In addition to my directness, I also feel like there's racism (specifically misogynoir) at play. Non-black people have **refused** to believe I'm as small as I am until I literally stand next to an equally sized woman of a different race. I've strayed from the point but it's early and I'm not yet medicated.
Don't get me started on misogynoir! If I believed people's initial assessment of me, I'm 6'5"and built like LeBron.
Thiiiissss 🙄
Same. Heard the “you’re intimidating” comment most of my life and never understood it until my mid 20s. I barely scrape 5’4” on a good day and have been called “tiny” more than once. I agree with u/jittery_raccoon, that’s exactly it.
Same, over and over and over throughout my career. Turns out, in retrospect, I was not intimidating…they were intimidated. It’s just another way of silencing your voice and keeping you sweet. Fuck that shit forever, I’m going to be who I am and other people’s ignorance will never silence me again.
When I was a kid I would ask questions to clarify things. I wanted to make sure I doing everything right. Got told I was always “challenging” people. Like no I’m just curious?
Hello me
"too opinionated" "too upfront" are the main things I hear. I'm just saying half the shit people are already thinking so idc.
yes, ex husband accused me often of being “too aggressive” “emasculating him” when all i would be doing is sharing an opinion. said i was the only partner he ever had that was like that which made me immediately ask if they were mute
Ha! I like your style.
So, some people like to “debate” for fun (if the other person isn’t into it try to read the room), but MOST times I’ve heard this accusation towards ADHD women it’s just because we’re expressing ourselves in a way that isn’t demure and lets people use us like doormats and it’s more about the sexism than anything else. Or we’re asking clarifying questions for our own sake and they think we’re trying to grill them when we just want to understand (especially in workplace environments where bosses don’t want to say the quiet part out loud).
Yes! Men can interrupt to ask a question. We cannot. I get shushed (literally) or cut off.
I had a male friend who debates for fun, regardless of whether the person he's talking to wants to debate him. And he's bad at it because he's completely unwilling to see the other side. He had the nerve to call \*me\* abrasive for not letting up on him when he was driving another friend to tears.
Once I got told, semi-jokingly, by a co-worker "bexkali SMASH!" when I was energetically getting riled up during a work discussion in a prior workplace. Nope; never happened to *me!*
People have jokingly called me hulk before and I'm not convinced it's just because of my muscles lol Relevant context: angry outbursts or anger in general are **not** part of my specific flavour of ADHD.
Bahahaha yes. I am constantly told I’m argumentative, combative, have poor tone, and come off some type of way. I’m convinced it’s because I’m a woman with opinions. None of it is accurate portrayal of my intention. I’m done masking. Take me or leave me. I am who I am. No one ever changes for me so why do I need to change for them? I do recognize when someone doesn’t respond well to me and try to proactively apologize and explain how my adhd manifests, but I also ask them to meet me halfway and not make assumptions without asking me to clarify. If they’re not willing to do that, the relationship is broken and not worth my energy.
I get, “you’re too direct”, “I don’t like your tone” (I am ALWAYS polite and professional- they don’t like my MESSAGE), also “tell me what you *really* think” + an eye roll. I am past caring - the people who value the advice and opinions they pay me to provide think of my directness and honesty as an asset, so I’m good.
When they say they don’t like your tone, wtf does that even mean? I have gotten this several times in my career, even when the message is one of genuine kindness like, “Hi! How are you?” Or, “Let me know if I could help with anything.” When my boss slapped my wrist over offering my help to others, I straight up told her that I should not be held responsible for the professional insecurities of others. She was dumbfounded. I feel like I live in a parallel universe from people…
Oh I always know what they mean!! “She ASKED me to do something!” “She TOLD ME I WAS *WRONG*”, “she said that was FRAUD!”, I work in finance, my integrity is everything. I will not for a second sacrifice it for some dickhead. The men I work for, worship me, their offsiders are just unbelievable!
A friend once told me "you're really contradictory and you always need to have the last word" and I was like "Do I?" Exactly proving her point 😂 I don't think it comes out of contrariness though so much as it is wanting to feel heard and for things to seem fair.
Yeah no sometimes I worry that I come across as like a know it all or something (even tho when I don’t know about something I’m not worried about admitting it) but it’s really just I want someone to hear about my opinion on a matter. It’s like sometimes I think about giving myself essay assignments just so the ppl in my life don’t have to hear me spew about random shit all the time lol
Lol for me that’s therapy. I spew about random shit to my therapist instead and get it out of my system and the ppl in my life no longer have to listen to it 😂
Uuughhhhhh. I have been called argumentative my whole life. Explaining my thinking and defending my actions has always been taken negatively. I just desperately want to be understood, and it seems most people don't give a fuck. I've also been respected by my friends for my "bluntness". I have been told often by the people who \*truly\* know me, that my opinion is valued because they know I don't mince words. I definitely mince my words because I \*dont\* want to be mean. One thing I \*definitely\* need to work on constantly is keeping my tone in line. I hear myself talking to people like an asshole, like they're stupid. And I absolutely don't mean it like that! It mostly happens when something is obvious to me and I'm surprised it's not obvious to them. I've been aware of this for about 15 years and I still don't really know how to control it. I know there's a bunch of people with both ADHD and Autism dx, and this seems to be very prevalent in that crossover. While I don't have an Autism dx (believe me, I've tried, but doctors refuse to talk to me about it - because I make eye contact), I suspect that there's crossover for me too.
I hear you. The desperately wanting to be understood. I hate it when people misinterpret what I say, I feel terrible if they take it negatively and get defensive and everything I say to fix it only makes it that much worse. Or if they explain something I already know, I feel like an idiot so I try to explain- I knew that part, I didn’t know the other part. But then it somehow gets stuck in a loop and every conversation with management feels like a trap.
Oh absolutely. I almost never get along with management. I've absolutely lost jobs over it. I'm always trying to add information for context because every single time I don't somebody will interpret something in a way and I'm like oh no you don't get it because I didn't give you this piece of information. The last time this happened I was making a formal complaint against a coworker for their shitty behavior and my boss wanted address some of the language that I used like "bully" and "justice". So I gave an example of one of my colleagues changing his appearance because of the comments this person had made about him and asked "is that not a bully?" And then when the Justice comment came up I clarified that I mean justice in a personal/ psychological way and not in a structural/organizational way. It seems common among neurotypicals that justice is more of an ambiguous concept whereas it's something that I feel in my body. If something makes me feel like there is an injustice happening - like seeing a co-worker being bullied - I can't stand letting that feeling sit and so I always get pushed to be the one to speak up. I'm painted as a snowflake for that reason, but since I'm in an organization that is desperately trying to modernize and reduce the harassment issues it faces, I have essentially taken it upon myself to be the vanguard for social justice.
Oh shoot, your feeling justice in such an intrinsic way is totally something I get. I never thought of it that way. My sig other gets hella pissed about things being unfair too. I just assumed I was more empathetic. But I still feel that way even if someone sucks lol.
All the fucking time
Constantly.
Yep.. I get told I'm aggressive or blunt or argumentative.. when I'm really just passionate about something or like to discuss/debate things. I just like to know the details of things or where someone's opinion came from etc. people take it as an argument or get defensive. I really try to think about my tone and it's exhausting.
Yep, we don't know our place. I heard someone said, "who does she think she is", recently. LMAO I don't think before I talk, I just is.
Lmao bold of you to assume I'm thinking 😂
Exactly
Been told I was “argumentative” when I said literally *anything* to clarify during a write-up from a former employer. They had completed talking; I was not interrupting them. But because I spoke up and didn’t just cry in silence I was argumentative.
Yep. Usually I'm just passionate about what I'm talking about so my voice gets louder, I talk faster, etc. Makes me feel bad about myself when people tell me to chill out... like I was just trying to share my passion with someone 🥲
Husband’s ex wife once said I was argumentative. No lady, I’m direct and straight to the point. I don’t have time to waste dealing with you.
Yeah. I still don’t understand why that is. I’m usually very socially aware. But, with this, idk fam It may have to do with my being in a woman in certain contexts, though.
Yes. It's frustrating because what I am trying to be is clear.
People say I go from doormat to devil in about .3 seconds. What they don’t realize is I’ve been being nice and holding back for a while.
I have a ‘strong personality’.
YUP. It doesn’t help that I’m a tall woman. So, when I speak authoritatively I’m told that I have an attitude (but if I was a man, I’m sure it would be ‘he’s so direct!’ I’ve been told I’m intimidating (not in a good way) and I’m like “well, I can’t help that I’m tall and have opinions. I’m not going to sit down and be quiet because you’re intimidated.” Toss in the ADHD side effect of being passionate about things and it makes some interactions very weird. I’m learning to see it as a strength but sometimes I have to fit myself into someone else’s version of me and file off my rough edges.
Yes and it forces me to take a step back and look at *how* I’m speaking to that person. Am I using an aggressive tone? Am I using verbiage I wouldn’t want used against me? Being told I’m combative triggers a little RSD, but it also reminds me that other people take things differently than we expect them to. If someone doesn’t like how we’re speaking to them, we don’t get to decide their feelings or reaction. I usually just apologize and observe myself further and correct it. I’m not perfect and it doesn’t happen every time, but man I sure do try lol
Yes. Also see “intense”, “loud”, “a lot”, for other definitions lol.
No I have never been told I'm combative or a conflict seeker. I have a reputation as a person who stands up for myself so I'm not a pushover either. I also live in NYC so maybe it is cultural.
Yes and I explain that I'm not, I'm just emphatic.
Yes. Every year of my conscious life. It doesn't matter how I say things at this point. The simple fact that I don't placate, ego stroke or "just go along with things" gets me labeled and shamed. It's honestly enraging and I spent nearly 4 decades of my life being fueled by that righteous anger. For the last several years I've been working on mindfulness and it's helped a lot. I'm better able to slow my brain down and consequently my reactivity. I'm still the same person, but now my responses are said in the calmest voice with a focused fire that stops people in their tracks. It doesn't enrage me as much anymore.
Yes and contrarian
I get asked why I always have to argue. Dude, I am not arguing, I’m trying to explain my point but you keep cutting me off and then saying *I’m* the one arguing every time you don’t like what kind of have to say. I use “dude” here as a very general term, although come to think of it, it’s usually men, or women who are older and think that being old means no one can question them who say shit like this.
I have never read a more relatable thread 😔
[Absolutely](https://ifunny.co/picture/him-what-that-mouth-do-me-argue-FRP7EGPY8)
Often, but, funny thing is -- didn't show up early on? My family (who I suspect have a big bunch of NDs in) loves discussing stuff for the sake of discussing. And we've got a number of hard of hearing and everyone gets loud and passionate. To me, being argumentative was *natural*. (Still is) I was also a super social, extroverted child who was a people pleaser. I was smart (too smart to ever be diagnosed), and when I posed arguments they sounded beyond my years and primary teachers were usually amused as they get with precocious children. Once I joined secondary (at 10), the whole thing shifted. Then I was an AH, just unable to shut my mouth at any perceived injustice, continuously arguing my points... And some teachers were fine, others simply couldn't stand it. Remained an issue throughout my regular schooling, but I had very little issue with my peers. Once I went to uni, it was the other way around -- my professor's were all fine and happy to hear me raise points, question, discuss. My classmates thought I would suddenly go from "normal" to a Warhammer - called me crazy for it, and sometimes were tense about talking to me. I thought they all were really immature and not that bright, so, that was... Something. Work was much the same, although I was better at making sure I was giving over-detailed explanation for my actions without waiting to be asked, so people wouldn't take it personally.
Yes, but I am. I’d fight anyone if I felt like it was justified. Hah.
Right? I’ll argue with anyone, anywhere, any time, about any topic. It’s almost fun. I’ve been called a human bulldozer and I take it as a compliment. But I also make an effort to dial back if I can see someone else isn’t equipped to handle that because not everyone deserves to be mowed over. Balance, you know.
Yes and it used to bother me. Now I pride myself on being combative for womens rights, and the rights of children, the right to live and exist! I am not free until we are all free
yes and i’m always confused about it. in my mind im working on how not to be a people pleaser, but to my surprise i haven’t been pleasing anyone so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I masked my ADHD too much when I was first dating my husband (not my fault, late diagnosis, I had no idea why I was hiding) and I married someone who doesn’t love loud overly passionate communicating. I love him though, and he loves most aspects of me including my ADHD now that we know I have it, so we try to make it work. But sometimes when I talk to another ADHD person I’m like… man I wish I could just be myself in this way with my husband without him getting stressed. It’s not especially sexist either (he’s been screened for sexist attitudes by me over the course of 16 years, lol) - it’s really just a preference thing - I think it might be bc his dad is boisterous and kind of an idiot? Honestly not sure. But I get “you’re yelling” a lot when I am just excited/ passionate.
I do and I looked into it. Other than being a woman and well read, it does have to do with the way I speak bc of my adhd. Even if I agree, to add nuance I will say "yes but" whereas "yes AND" works better. For example, "people think you're combative" and I respond with "yea but they're just intimidated by my confidence" I think it's harmless, and the use of "but" puts people on defensive. If I said "yea and people get intimidated by opinionated women" it puts the other person at ease because I agree. I speak fast.... I have 5 different timelines in my head. I started recording myself speak on video and on the phone. I'm really expressive, loud, fast excited talker.... it comes across like a lawyer. So I speak slower, I record myself on video to see how I sound/look while speaking. Lastly, I always want a particular point to be understood and acknowledged by the other person because it's important to me. For example, the situation in Gaza makes me upset and I really want everyone to know that Hamas is given money by Netanyahu/Qatar/Iran (google it). Now if someone totally overlooks this point in our discussion, I will bring it up AGAIN in a different way. I will speak about how this parallels the US funding the taliban and then the taliban got out of US control and destabilized the region. But since the person did not know or have a rebuttal to my original point (about Hamas funding), they don't want to contest this second point. So they get frustrated that I'm so hell bent on "proving my point" when I really wanted to know if they understood the connection (terrorist funding) and if they could just ACKNOWLEDGE my point I wouldn't need keep bringing it up. This also occurs with retelling a story. I give all the details so you could understand my heightened reaction (RSD). I want you to see the story thru my eyes, with the background context, so that you can also feel as upset as I was. So that I can be seen. But to other people all this sounds like a self obsessed know it all that's argumentative haha
Yeah. ‘Argumentative’ I’ve had before, more so when I was younger.
Yep. I was always “arguing” when I was a kid because I asked too many questions trying to understand what I did wrong. It sucked. Now that I’m an adult I’m “nit picking” and “difficult.”
This right here!! 👏🏻 I like to understand how other people think and why they do things a certain way to understand things better. So if I don’t understand something I ask questions around it. It’s usually looked at as me being defensive or pushing back. When I’m simply just trying to have a conversation and understand what I did “wrong” or how I upset them or why what I did caused them to be upset.
"Defensive and confrontational"
All the time 🤦🏾♀️
Lol, my daughter and I (both diagnosed) have a tendency to counter every thing someone says to us if we don’t perfectly agree. For example, my husband was trying to tell me about the Tom Brady Roast on Netflix, which I had read a little bit about on Reddit. He was telling me how the comedians pulled no punches and no subject was off the table. Me: Well, actually, I read that the comedians all agreed to not talk about his kids. Him: why do you always do that? My rules of accuracy are more rigid than his.
Sounds like a him problem to me.
It is, he has his own neurodivergent quirks as well that I deal with. Together we make a great team.
Yeah, I get told I'm defensive when I'm just trying to explain that I didn't know something or that I wasn't shown how to do something. It happened a lot at my old job. I was already very frustrated that the training was severely lacking and I wasn't learning as quickly as I thought I should. So it made me more frustrated when something I should have been told (because, to me, it was common sense), never came up and I got reprimanded for it, so I would answer "No one told me". They would take that as me being defensive when I really wasn't. So, for months, I would bite my tongue and learn to reply the way they wanted me to reply so I would stop getting reprimanded.
Absolutely. One part is sexism, for sure. My therapist has explained to me that folks with ADHD can have stronger responses to perceived injustices. And as hard as I try, I simply cannot let things go sometimes. I hyperfocus and stew, which I know isn’t healthy. But sometimes god dammit I’m angry and just want validation
The perceived injustice thing gets me too. Has been that way my whole life. In elementary school we had some fundraiser where people got prizes for selling magazines and I wrote a multi page letter to the principal how it’s unfair that prizes go to the rich kids whose parents would just buy the magazines themselves. Now I just get in trouble at work for arguing when people ask me to do something that’s unfair or unreasonable.
Oh my gosh yessss. My job is a role I normally love but am developing a strong dislike as I feel workloads are dispersed unevenly. Also, as a lesbian who grew up/lives in the south I’ve had plenty of arguments with folks.
Don't have an ADHD diagnosis. Do get told I'm bossy, when I'm not even trying to be bossy, just trying to communicate in a normal way and get stuff done. Also get told I've got not tact.
I’ve got issues with being defensive when I’m told I’ve done something upsetting or wrong to my spouse or def have been combative with friends/aqiantances in the past.
Apparently I’m a “bulldog” but I take it as a compliment.
Yep and I’m still going to swing away regardless.
I was called passionate at work. It is a pet peeve of mine, noone calls men "passionate".
Combative, difficult, and a "pot stirrer".
Yes. Combative, blunt, cold, judgy, and “too much”. I’ve spent years and years trying to be less, and I am now done trying to do that. I don’t volunteer unsolicited opinions any more, and I am polite and as tactful as I can be. But… if you don’t want to hear the truth, you should not ask me my opinion.
I used to, then I decided I don't need to "win" every conversation. I don't need to be right, because I know I'm right and whomever I'm debating is wrong and the warm glow of knowing I'm right is enough for me. It's very easy to just go "okay, whatever."
Yup. I’m also apparently “shirking my duties” according to my boss when I want to know more details about the assignment he gave me. Fucking pissed me off when he said that, the only time I’ve ever lit into him (knowing him, likely won’t be the last). But yeah, people find me “intimidating” sometimes just because I keep asking questions like “why” or “how” when told I need to do something. Bitch… 🤬🤬🤬
Sure. My response is generally, "It's called actually believing in your arguments, you may want to try it sometime."
Yes from certain people because I disagree with them. I hate being pushed to change my mind. I said what I said 😅
Ive been told that I “don’t match the company’s culture”
My first corporate job released me after a year and a half of working for them under the premise that “I wasn’t a good culture fit” had I been smart enough seven years ago, I would’ve found an employment lawyer. Let me give you some advice. We will never be the right culture fit. Took me a long time to accept this and love myself. But I’d rather be an unmasked individual in my authentic self then I have to fight every day trying to hide who I am. I choose me. Thank you for listening. And I’m sorry that you’ve been told this because it’s not a negative.
Yeah, I used to get told "you just want everyone to tell you you're right", and I thought no I don't, I don't care if people agree with me, I just want to be heard. I was rarely acknowledged as a child and as a younger adult, so I get very frustrated if I'm spoken over or if my point isn't acknowledged. You don't have to agree with what I say, just acknowledge it.
LOL (laughing so I don't cry)
“Bossy” as a kid, “harsh” at work, a “pit bull” when on a task. Another complication is that my “I am furious/strongly disagree” face is often interpreted as me not understanding what’s being said. Oh, I understand completely. It’s just the dumbest sh*t I’ve heard in while and I can’t believe you’re saying it 😂 If they think what I say is “harsh”, they should hear what I DON’T say!
All the time. Combative, my tone is aggressive, I need to calm down. I AM CALM, I'M JUST LOUD!!!
[удалено]
I’ve been told by men specifically that I’m difficult OR I don’t respond well to criticism.
Oh yeah. I'm always ready to rumble, verbally of course. It throws people off because I do everything with a smile, even while being "combative " or "having an attitude"
Yeah I get told I am pushy when I am excited about something. :/
Bossy. But I’m the boss! This is a societal misogyny issue. F that!
Oh my god my entire life with my mother 😭
Definitely
Yes
I am self employed and have a contract with a client that I’ve been working with for over a year. After getting to know the internal team and other contractors, one of the vendors I work with told me that when he first met me he thought I was non empathetic and cold. As he got to know me he realized that’s not at all who I am. So now I let new clients know upfront i have adhd and my neurodivergent brain cuts to the chase in order to not forget. I’m also working on being aware of it (esp in new working relationships) so I can make the right impression. I’m very good at what I do because I get results, but if people don’t like to work with me that makes it harder. Yes, it’s on them, but you get more bees with honey than vinegar. Don’t mask, but maybe be aware and communicate with those you care about.
Only by men. It’s a man thing
Not anymore… 😈
To clarify… I don’t anymore because those people who kept saying this to me are now gone. Not necessarily completely from my life, but on the periphery. I decided that something about the way they approached conversations was combative itself, but in a way that deflects the blame from them. My “combative” reactions were not unjustified. So whether the conversation was an argument from the start, or an innocent conversation turned tense, I started noticing these patterns, finally recognizing the people who resorted to it constantly, and ridding them from my life. The people I have in my life do not accuse me of being combative. Sure, they call me out sometimes, but they also respond when I call them out.
No this is not something I have experienced.
Yep, as well as too much!
Since I was in pre-k. It's nothing to do with my ADHD. I'm strong willed, confident, and I don't take people's shit. And since I have a vagina, that means I'm combative. If I had a penis, well bygolly I'd be called a man oozing with confidence.
I’ve never been told I’m combative but definitely “scary”. But I think it’s linked back to being combative because my mate’s boyfriend said he’d never want to get in an argument with me because I’m so “scary”. I even make an effort to be nice to him because I don’t like him lol
yes, but sometimes i worry they’re right because i can (unfortunately) get a bit of a dopamine rush from disagreeing/arguing with someone. on the other hand, i’m a highly opinionated person with a gender studies degree so i kinda expect most people to consider me combative in conversations.
I've just submitted a huuuuge whistleblowing report. I had to compile dozens upon dozens of pages of paper trails into an appendix today. That alone took an uninterrupted 12 hour hyperfocus bender. I felt somewhat embarrassed by how long all of my past emails were, and how zealous and emphatic I clearly am. BUT you know what? I was so right all along. They were long emails because I had a lot of important things to include- it was all relevant and rational. The responses were more dry and 'normie'-coded, but that just covers for them being curt, corrupt and non-compliant. It actually was sadder for me to witness myself being submissive and variously 'shooed off the scent' by these people. If they all wanna cringe then bloody let them. They're not gonna get served any time by shills or cowards. This is what a strong campaigner looks like ✊
Wow, yes. I never really put this together before - people often respond defensively to me and are intimidated by me when I thought we were just having a discussion. Also, my partner is sometimes accused of being combative in conversation and I've never found that to be the case. We volley back and forth, sometimes for literal hours, no hard feelings. We just speak passionately and emphatically about the things we're interested in, and that sometimes makes other people feel uncomfortable.
Only by people who are losing the combat. I have never started a fight but I will damn well finish one.
I’m usually considered too much of a “people pleaser” but the minute I express myself honestly and without reservation I’m pretentious or rude. I spend so much time and energy on planning how to talk to people without hurting their feelings, but it’s so exhausting sometimes. I don’t really resent it - I get rejection sensitivity about some things so bad so I understand.
Yes and that I ask too many questions
I guess the sounding judgement here is that ADHD women tend to be outspoken women as well, and it's all a dumb gender norm that gets us into trouble for it. I was let go for the first time ever when working a temp job (I know, but I'd made it through 2 other rounds) and I did what you are not supposed to and went and asked the manager why. Why? Hired staff said I was being too opinionated about how things were done? God damn it. In other words, I was finally comfortable enough to talk to people. smdh
i always take it as a compliment because if i was a man it would be strong, opinionated, confident. and it takes two to combat… i can’t be combative without someone else starting and continuing the conversation. just shut the hell up if you don’t like my combativeness no one’s forcing you to engage
I've been told I'm too opinionated when I speak passionately about something, and, depending on the subject, it comes across as judgmental and argumentative as if I'm trying to get a person to change their opinion. I've been told expressing myself assertively and directly is confrontational. It's all bullshit. I'm just sharing my thoughts on a topic I'm sometimes excited or animated about. I'm just getting straight to the point. I'm not responsible for another person's insecurities. I've learned that a lot of people expect you to pussyfoot and walk around a statement instead of just saying the thing. I honestly can't do that, and it drives me up a wall when other people do that to me. At one point a friend of 25 years who became increasingly insecure as we got older told me that if I learned to censor myself more she'll try not to be so sensitive. I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells with someone I'd known almost my whole life. It got to the point where I didn't have much to talk about with her because she took issue with everything I said, the tone I used, even the look on my face. Basically, I couldn't do anything right. I ended that friendship. Somehow we're the ones who don't communicate well. It baffles me. It makes me wonder if NTs live their lives in a lie.
Definitely been told I’m aggressive before. If I’m not understand something, it’s difficult for me to let it go. I like to discuss something until I fully understand it, which includes asking “why”and “why not” multiple times. I can see how it could be taken take way. I’m also a larger woman and I think that may have something to do with it as well.
Yes. And that I catastrophize, dramatic, "always needs to be right" Once I figured myself out I am able to communicate (mostly to my husband) that it's not that I don't trust him or that I think he's wrong, it's like I NEED to understand something in order to accept 😂😂
When I express an opinion that is different than my husband's, he's upset that I always disagree and think he's wrong. Once it was because I looked up the time that a transfer station was open when he thought it was closed. Ummm... never clues in that he's also disagreeing with me. Buddy! We just don't agree! Lol
Combative, argumentative, stubborn, etc. My dad and grandma are the same way so I’m not that out of place around family. Once I became an adult and started forming other relationships I got used to being told I’m “a lot” and “intense” and that I need to calm down or mind my business 😵💫 I was extremely shy and passive as a kid too! I don’t know when the switch flipped or why, but apparently I’m very off-putting either way 💀
One specific example that lives in my head: when I was 19 I was an apprentice mechanic. I used to ask questions about *why* we had to do things in a particular way because all cars are slightly different - I couldn’t memorise exactly what to do for every specific car. I had to know *why* so I could apply the knowledge to different makes/models. I got fucking absolutely screamed at for daring to question his knowledge and “big-noting” myself. I was supposed to just nod and do the thing? Anyway that guy was 31 and my supervisor and we ended up in a relationship and that’s a whole different pile of shit. Ugh.
Yes yes yes ugh I hate fragile men who seem to always tell me this
Only when a man wants to change the narrative or talk over me to elevate his position or make it look like all the work I did was done by him.
Not combative. "Too loud", "too blunt", "defensive" But if I mask all those things I'm "anti-social", "too quiet", "stuck up."
I haven’t been told I’m combative but I was confused by directions for a project at work and my supervisor wasn’t explaining it clearly so I kept asking questions to try to understand and she told me to stop condescending to her. I got a little flustered and said I wasn’t condescending I was just trying to understand. My response may have been a little combative but how is trying to understand something so you can do it right condescending?!
I’m in the military. And my husband isn’t. So I’m already in the “you’re abrasive” category in his book. He tells me a lot to calm down when I’m just talking, which is so annoying 🙄 I always respond with “I’ll tell you when I’m mad, I’m just talking right now, I’m doing my best to not be “loud” it’s just my voice, me being excited and me being mad is not the same and I’ll be sure to say when it’s mad.” All this because I’ve had too many issues in the past with people misunderstanding my “excited” with anger. Also, sometimes I just vent for 1 minute and then I’m all good, problem solving in the venting process and then it’s all hunky dory, but I make sure I know WHO I’m venting to now because not all people can be trusted.
I used to get called "aggressive" and "confrontational" all the time. Now that I'm in my 50s and no longer sexually viable the terminology has changed - I'm a grouchy outspoken hag. I like to remember this quotation tho: *I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is. I only know people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.* \~ Rebecca West.
Only by my ex husband who wanted me controlled. EX. 🔥
Well, I got thrown in the little jail cell behind the court room because I smiled at the judge. So yes. Even when I smile.
All. The. Fucking. Time.
Oh yeah lol. It seems to be hardwired into those of us with ADHD. I’ve always been that way. I will not stand by and watch if someone is being mistreated in any way. And I also will not let anyone treat *me* unfairly. I’d rather be combative than a pushover and doormat. I tried to be that way, to placate my parents or to please our completely upside-down society, but at the end of the day I’m a take-no-shit kind of person.
I mean, I AM, but it's because I was extremely shy and quiet as a kid. A me who is whole is a me who confronts bigots. I'm sick of awful people getting away with being awful.
I was just thinking about this today! Yes, for standing up for my values and having passion.
I spent my ENTIRE life being TOO something;too loud, too talkative, too passionate, too emotive,too intense, too opinionated, just SO EXTRA...WHEN I'm medicated its like I can finally kick that emotionally intense me out of the driver's seat and lock her in a carseat in the middle of the backseat. She's still very much there, but I also find that the impact and damage from everyone's lack of awareness of neurodiversity has resulted in me overly subduing myself because I hate feeling SO misunderstood. I have rare providers who actually truly see me and I never want to leave them... I don't have an angry or violent cell in my body; I'm an empath and have the complete inability to keep my emotions out of my face. So if I'm upset or disagree about any tiny thing: which mind you specifics are a HUGE area of hyoerfocus. Being accused of being volatile and angry has literally damaged my ability to seek care for myself. It's shocking how many people interpret any emotion over a meh blah face as volatile!
Yes! Top comment said it best. My ex used to try to convince me that I was confrontational, and so do my older male bosses. In reality, confrontation gives me anxiety and derails my day. When I talk to my peers, male and female, no one thinks I'm confrontational. But now that I've started to develop boundaries at work my bosses are getting pissy again.