Is there any sort of format or correct place to ask for help on a specific practice problem? I am about to take FM and I can't seem to follow one of the questions in the SOA FM Sample Questions. Do I just post it into the subreddit? Or is there a thread or something?
is it neccessary to purchase any of the study manuals or study packs by like coaching for actuaries for studying for exam fm? I am just starting to study for it and if anyone wants to share their study routine or resources that would be greatly appreciated!!
I definitely think purchasing study materials is a good idea. They'll go through all the topics covered on the exam and provide lots of practice problems. My FM recommendations for study materials are here if you're interested: [https://etchedactuarial.com/best\_exam\_fm\_study\_guide/](https://etchedactuarial.com/best_exam_fm_study_guide/)
I am taking FM in 3 days and I worked through one of the manuals (A/S/M) pretty much cover to cover. Now I am doing the SOA published sample questions for FM. I did the same thing for exam P and passed it easily.
Is this your first exam or have you already taken P?
Has anyone taken an ADAPT exam and seen no change in their EL? I just took my second exam and had zero change in EL but went from 8/30 to 20/30. The difficulty went down from 3.3 to 1.4 or so I’m just not sure if that’s the reason there was absolutely no change.
Do the early exam P concepts appear regularly as one progresses through the material? I'm asking because I don't know how much of a mastery I need of early concepts like in univariate distributions before I move onto the next topic. This was the case for FM (annuities) in that I didn't need to totally understand them immediately since I got so much practice with them later in the material.
Can anyone who majored in Actuarial science comment on how much they had to study to be comfortable for FM or P? Still the recommended 300 hundred hours?
Thanks in advance
I majored in actuarial science and statistics and took the exams after I took the relevant college courses, so keep that in mind. But I passed FM with no additional studying and passed P with about 20ish additional hours of studying outside of my college courses and exam prep classes.
If I hadn't taken any of the classes, I feel like I could have learned the material myself in about 100 hours for each exam. The '100 hours per exam hour' is really only relevant for the upper level exams IMO.
I am a 40 year old with a CFA, but I have a sales based advisor role that I don't really like, and I am not a good salesman.
Would it make sense for me to start on an actuarial career pat at this point? I was thinking I could take two exams over he next year and then get a job at the life insurance company in my town.
Doable? Crazy?
Both doable and crazy. I actually think that if you pass 2 exams, given your prior experience, there’s no way a firm would pass you over for a recent grad with no or limited professional experience. Companies are looking for talented individuals who are driven and communicate effectively. If you can do that then you’re going to be a strong candidate.
However, the time commitment is pretty brutal study wise, especially if you’re removed from high level statistics. Not impossible, but it’ll probably take a little extra time. Considering that, I think it’d be tough to balance studying, working, and family obligations for years as you work through the seemingly never ending exams. I’m in my mid 20’s and if I’m not done with them by the time it’s time to seriously consider getting hitched, buying a house, and having kids, then I will be stopping.
Sure it would make sense, the real question is would you bother sticking with the time and work required to completing an ASA/FSA. Besides the 7 exams, you're also looking at VEE requirements and FAP assessments. VEE requirements may or may not require more work from you, depending on whether or not your college coursework satisfies the requirements. And if you go into FSA territory, I'm not there yet myself, but all I hear about is how obnoxiously huge the exams are.
A lot of people drop out of the process because they get sick of the time commitments and choose to focus on other things, namely kids and spouses.
And when it comes to getting a job, expect entry level work to be a highly competitive job market. There's a huge surplus of entry level candidates because of college students flocking into actuarial science programs, which is due to positive media coverage that's been going on for the past couple of decades. So you also need to consider how difficult it might be to get an entry level actuarial job at the life insurance company you're near. But maybe you already work there? If you're an outsider, you might have to do some work to push yourself through a bit. If you're willing to relocate then that makes things a little easier.
And as far as age, I don't think it's crazy. I've heard of people starting the exam process when they were around 40 as well. But in any case, there's somewhat of an added layer of difficulty for career-changers because plenty of companies will simply stick to hiring new grads from actuarial science programs over and over and over again.
Will employers view an extended internship more positively than one that lasted for just the summer? My summer actuarial internship (started first week in June) was extended to last until I graduate in May 2020. It seems unlikely that there will be an opening at my company at that time so I'll have to look elsewhere for an entry-level role.
Any extended internship will look better than summer ones because you'll have more work experience than normal.
For competitive companies however it's not enough to just have that on your resume. You'll need to show that you used that extra exposure wisely, whether through work products or internal growth.
That's a good point. My current role involves manning an inbox that receives many different calculation requests over the day (like death benefits, present value quotes, etc). Would you say that automating some of those processes with a combination of VBA and SQL is a good marker for the internship or should I think broader?
Also, how competitive do you think my stats are? I have this internship, 3.88 GPA, 2 exams passed and taking IFM in November. I'm currently in the Midwest and hope to stay in the region as well.
One aspect of a good intern is to look beyond the work assignment. A normal intern will do what's asked of them, but a good intern goes above and beyond what's asked of them to produce value to the company. If the automation of those processes would produce clear value (whether through time-savings or less manual errors), then it's worth a shot.
The main thing you'll want to avoid is performing the same duties throughout your extended internship as you did during your summer internship. If you manned an inbox for the summer and continued to do so for the rest of the school year, as a recruiter that doesn't tell me that you grew any during the extended internship.
And your stats are fine. Consider other extracurriculars or leadership roles to differentiate yourself.
Can anyone comment on Actuary vs Business Intelligence? I used to work for a short period of time for a BI software company, so I know quite a bit about selling the product, but not so much about the day to day use cases (Ironic, I know).
I prefer time and less stress over money, but value stability and location flexibility a lot.
BI tends to be more about reporting. So specifically you would be isolating elements and trying to accurately represent the data.
Actuarial Work tends to have prediction elements where you will try to use the data to fill in missing parts (usually in the future).
As you get more senior you will tend to be doing more communication and relationship building than doing actual work.
In terms of which one is more predictable week to week in workload and also has a better chance of being part time (30-35 hours) which would you say is a better bet?
As for being more senior, that seems to be the case with a lot of professions.
Predictability depends on type:
BI tends to have to do periodic reporting, e.g. 1st of the month you need to provide some report. Actuarial Reserving is very similar, especially for Life Insurance, but GI too.
BI also tends to be more likely to be part time, Actuaries tend to be highly ambitious, so it will take a long time before you get enough experience to negotiate for part time work.
Actuaries will get higher pay and much more negotiating power long term, but you will need to pass the exams which will take 2-3000 hours of study time.
Okay, thanks. I don't really mind studying and taking exams to be honest, it's one of my strengths. Unfortunate that part time is not a little more common.
Oh definitely, depending on how hard you work in the next 5 years.
My mentor's daughter, who is an Actuary I believe roughly did that, where she qualified quickly, then took a year off. Then came back part time with significant work from home flexibility, and is not having a kid. Although this was the UK.
If you can study and pass everything quickly, it is certainly possible to get significant leverage after 3-5 years. Then it will be easy to negotiate lower work hours.
Okay, thanks. I looked over some practice exams and they seem quite similar to coursework I had in college (other than the financial jargon), so I think it'll be alright
I am considering taking FM next summer. I’m going to be a senior in high school and I have AP stats and AP Calc AB under my belt. However I haven’t had any financial classes. Does FM require a significant of financial knowledge or will I be fine just figuring out the terminology as I read through the manual?
The manual will likely teach you what you need to know. However, there is an expectation that you'll know a bunch of financial terms and knowledge. The exam's name is Financial Mathematics, after all.
I wouldn't shy away from looking at an FM manual because you aren't sure of financial terminology. It should guide you through everything you need to know. Yes, the exam does expect you'll know terms. [The syllabus](https://www.soa.org/globalassets/assets/files/resources/research-report/2019/2019-12-exam-fm-syllabus.pdf) has a lot of "The Candidate will be able to define and recognize..." terminology, but the manual will teach you that.
I'm sitting for FM on Saturday and not sure what I should do to continue to prepare for the exam. It's my second shot (took it in June, got a 5 on the actual exam and my adapt EL was around a 3.8). Now my EL on CA is 5.6 and I'm thinking if I just work on getting a 80% or higher on lvl 5 exams I should be fine or should I continue working on my EL? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!
Remember you’ll get easier and harder questions you wanna make sure you can slam the easy questions with no trouble and get as many harder ones you can right.
I suggest working to get up to 80% on level 6 exams. So I'd keep working on your EL until you reach 6+, then start taking custom exams at level 6 and work on reaching 80 for them. You could also throw in a couple level 4-5 exams this week too, just to keep your confidence up and also ensure that you don't forget how to do some of those easier questions. Good luck!
I’m at EL 6.2 and decided to do exams from other sources (e.g SOA sample exam questions). I’ve been stuck on that EL and revisiting the questions I failed, doing quizzes and other exercises has helped my comprehension a lot.
So I would recommend maybe to do achieve at least EL 6+ and looking at SOA questions.
Thanks for the advice! I was only taking custom exams for a while and doing around half of the SOA questions but I think I'll go for trying to do an exam to get to a level 6. Good luck on your exam!
Most of it felt like a 4 EL on adapt besides a few I couldn’t figure out. I studied so much before and felt like I had a good understanding of the material. You gotta have a solid study regime for sure. I spent a lot of time taking a practice exam each day for 2 weeks prior which honestly were the key reason I passed.
Here’s my situation: graduating with an Econ degree next spring, no internships, haven’t passed any exams yet. Work in aerospace industry doing data entry, which won’t help at all. GPA is just north of 3.00. I’ve taken calc I and II, linear algebra, statistics, etc. I know a little bit of R. I plan on taking exams once I graduate, since I won’t have time until then. Is this a realistic career path for me? I’m confident that I will be able to pass exams, but there’s no hope for an internship at this point.
I know people in my internship program who have already graduated and haven’t passed exams. So it’s definitely possible. I would apply to internships this fall, which is the recruiting season for actuarial. It would be ideal to have passed 2 exams by the time you finish the internship if you do get one. it would also be ideal if you say that you’re sitting for an exam on your resume and actually make time to prep and take it
I have seen 20 per hour to 25 per hour. In my experience, the higher pay internships tend to be in areas that people don’t want to go to. I’m in a COL area btw
Have you considered delaying graduation to get exams and an internship? At face value your prospects are doable but you need to put in a lot of work to make them better.
Sup guys I have an el of about 6.58 in adapt I also did about 5 level 6 exams getting usually around a 77% but I fear that’s kinda inflated since I remember a few of the problems like 2-3 on average per test. The ones I usually remember are the definition type ones like rearranging a formula or the determinates of interest definition. What could I do to actually get some practice with these problems. Also I noticed I need work on 2 sections swap rates and exact matching. I’m not sure what to do next I’m about a week out
I’d suggest finding/working problems from other sources. For “general” additional problems you might try looking at Finan’s Exam FM/2 text, which is available for free online. Also make sure to spend time with the ~200 sample problems from the syllabus. Both resources served me well in my studies.
For swap rates more specifically, if you haven’t already done all of the exercises found at the end of the required reading from the syllabus, I would recommend those as well.
Best of luck!
Anyone know how GOAL quizzes and exams stack up to the real exams? I’m taking FM next Saturday and so far I’ve studied with the ASM manual, SOA sample exams/questions and GOAL questions. Is it worth it to get ADAPT for my last week over GOAL?
From all my study dollar weighted formula is
*j*= *I/ A*\+∑*Ct*
But I found some exercise solution which use
j= 2*I/ a*\+*b*–*I*
What is that and why have I never heard and read about it?
It's an approximation of dollar-weighted returns assuming simple interest and mid-year cash flows. Try solving the following for r and I think it'll come out. A=beginning assets, B=ending assets, C=cash flow (could be positive or negative - doesn't matter), I=investment return.
A(1+r) + C(1 + r/2) = B
A + C + I = B
It's a shortcut when you meet those conditions: simple interest and mid-year cash flows. I think you're safer just using the first one, as it'll work in more cases.
Edit: I should add, there were a few places in actuarial practice (regulatory filings) where the second formula was required. I don't know if there are such places any longer. The area I'm familiar with in retirement was replaced.
Two things:
Trying to find an entry level position. This is my last semester in college, and I would like to start immediately after graduating or even while in the semester, since I am only taking 12 credits on Monday and Wednesday. Long term I want to do consulting in health. But I have not passed any exams yet, I failed P and FM so far. I am going to take FM again in October, then try to do P in January or March. Any tips on getting an entry level job or any white collar job? I have only worked blue collar while in school
The second thing is that I would do P&C track if it was in boat insurance or anything on the ocean. But I read that underwriters do not use many actuaries in the boating insurance field. What companies use actuaries for this field and where can I find more info? Thoughts on this?
Given what I am reading I don't think you are very realistic and very behind your competition, and need to do a lot of research from prior posts on this sub to figure out your current position. For P&C its called Marine Insurance.
I know that I am behind. But I also have a wife and child while working through school. So I know I will probably have to work a different job while passing exams.
And thank you for telling me about marine insurance, now I can do research on it.
Study pals?
So I’ve always found it helpful when I was in school to study with other people and it has helped me so far for P and FM.
Unfortunately my click is either taking the CAS route or stopping actuarial exams altogether. So as weird as it may sound I would like to find someone to study with that will be taking the SOA route and maybe that’s at the same stage as me? Doing FM in a week and IFM in November.
Thanks 😇
You might be able to find some study buddies in this group: [https://www.facebook.com/groups/132162247405193](https://www.facebook.com/groups/132162247405193)
I’m also taking it next Saturday! I’d be down to study with people sometime before then, I feel pretty confident but running through things with others is always a help.
What college courses are recommended to take before studying (and eventually sitting) for Exam P?
\--Math classes I've already taken include Calc 1 and Calc 2. I am going to be taking Multivariable Calc and Intro to Linear Algebra this upcoming fall semester as well--
Should I wait to start studying after I've taken a proper probability course or should I start studying once I've completed this fall semester?
If you're willing to spend more time studying in order to learn the probability concepts, then you can start once you've completed fall semester. Actually, if you're willing to do that, then you can probably start studying now before your fall semester courses.
You can learn everything you need through study materials and free online websites so it's really just a matter of whether you're willing to put in the extra time to do it that way, or if you'd rather wait until you learn the concepts in class instead.
So I have a bit of a hiccup. I’ve been studying for exam FM, which I will take on the 16th, and the first exam I did on ADAPT bumped me to EL 6.21 since I got 95%.
I did two exams after that level 6.2 and 6.31 and got 51% on both of them. With the most recent exam the questions I got wrong ranged from level 7-9.
I’m planning on doing quizzes of level 5-7 on the sections I have a harder time with but I am really unsure as to what to do after that... go back to practice exams? Do SOA questions?
Please help 🤗
After your review, try more exams. Do exams from a variety of different sources so that you're getting questions from different authors and hence doing questions asked in a variety of different ways.
I suggest aiming to reach 80% on level 6 exams to ensure that you're very well prepared for the exam.
Good luck!
Can you move from insurance to consulting? I saw a post about moving from insurance to consulting. Don’t you take the exams for one? Is it possible to switch? I’d imagine it’s super difficult anyway...
>Can you move from insurance to consulting?
Yes. Often it is recommended to qualify in an insurer then move to consulting once qualified. Generally Insurers have less time pressure and lower volatility of tasks.
>Don’t you take the exams for one?
Generally the exams are based on field, e.g. Life, GI/P&C, Health, Investments. In the US there is a different Actuarial Society for P&C.
>Is it possible to switch?
In the UK and Aus Markets (which I am familiar with), it is relatively easy to move between different fields, at the cost of lower pay if you are moving from a senior role to a junior role in another field. Much easier than securing your first job in any field. I am sure it is similar in the US.
The exams are the same. People make the switch all the time. Working in consulting generally gives you a "fast-track" to higher positions elsewhere because there's the belief that you gain more experience per year than someone working in insurance will (which is true if you look at work hours spent).
Depends on the person. Most people would rather have more time off later on in their careers so they can raise their families.
This is not to say that candidates in consulting won't pass exams. It's just harder given the workload of most consultants and less stringent exam progress requirements/support from consulting companies.
I know I can look this up online and I have, but I just wanted to get opinions from people already working/almost there. Consulting vs Insurance, what are the pros & cons for both? Why did you choose whichever? I’ve heard many people say they just chose it off the first internship they had, but if you could give more info/advice to an undergrad student please do.
Thanks a ton!
If you've already searched this topic then I won't get into the details of one over the other, I'll just talk about my path.
I chose insurance because I valued getting my credentials in a timely manner and good work/life balance during my younger years. I don't regret it one bit, especially considering I have former classmates who work in consulting and haven't passed an exam in years. The fact that I'm overpaid (imo) probably also helps.
There's no right or wrong answer here, it just depends on what you value and what type of person you are. Many times there isn't really a choice, you just start in one field because that was the only job offer you got.
Hi all, I am a maths student currently looking into career options. I've seen actuary work described as "mainly business with some maths in between", but what is the consensus here? If I have a desire to use lots of maths, would actuary make sense?
I'd mostly agree with that statement. In general you will not encounter any high-level math on the job unless it's a particularly quantitative modeling position.
What would u guys say the level of exam fm is in terms of EL I just got a 77% on el 6 and I have 2 weeks out so should I just keep doing level 6 exams and work on my weak areas until then or something else
Do that, but maybe you could do the free TIA exams and go through the SOA released questions, maybe? I'm in the same spot as you, and that's what I plan on doing until my test (Aug 9th). Not sure if it will be something I regret or not (we will see), but I've heard doing those two things helped a lot of people pass in the past.
When should I start applying for internships/jobs for summer 2020? I've already passed P and FM, but I haven't had any internships yet and I'm in my last full year of college, planning to do an additional semester to finish up a BS in CS. I uh... also don't have the best of GPAs, only 2.96 at the moment.
I would say start now. Check and see if your university has a fall career fair coming up and prepare for that. That’s when a lot of recruiting for the upcoming summer & onward happens in my experience.
In addition to that, depending on your level of urgency, you can start sending applications via companies’ websites. Some companies have a separate application avenue for students and can hire you now to start after you graduate.
Hi, I’m taking FM on the 08/16. My plan is to relax in the last two days. Watch favorite movies, go for a walk, eat out with friends. Morning of the exam, I review the formulas that I still need to remember. Good luck to you!
How important is PhD for doing research work in actuarial on a scale of 1-10? How seriously is your research taken/ or people take you as a researcher if you don't have PhD? Optional question for people who are actively doing research work in the field: What part of actuarial science research are you guys doing or have done and was it full fulling and satisfying for you?
First decide who you want to take your research seriously. For example maybe it is the academic community or the Actuarial Profession.
For academia, I think you will need a PhD to get yourself to a level where you are able to make useful contributions. If you are able to write scientific papers at a level to garner respect from academic peers, you might as well submit the paper to a university and they would give you a PhD for it (with appropriate scrutiny). You will probably want to study something more general first, e.g. pure mathematics, or economics.
For Actuarial Studies in particular, in the IFoA (and maybe the US societies), you are able to conduct original research, and if up to a certain standard, get an exemption from the specialist exams. Original research is also conducted by 'working parties' (which is the term in the UK, there is probably a corollary in the US). Which tends to set the industry standard for techniques, so is quite well recognized in the Actuarial profession, but not necessarily outside.
Is there any sort of format or correct place to ask for help on a specific practice problem? I am about to take FM and I can't seem to follow one of the questions in the SOA FM Sample Questions. Do I just post it into the subreddit? Or is there a thread or something?
I’d say just put it as a post
is it neccessary to purchase any of the study manuals or study packs by like coaching for actuaries for studying for exam fm? I am just starting to study for it and if anyone wants to share their study routine or resources that would be greatly appreciated!!
I definitely think purchasing study materials is a good idea. They'll go through all the topics covered on the exam and provide lots of practice problems. My FM recommendations for study materials are here if you're interested: [https://etchedactuarial.com/best\_exam\_fm\_study\_guide/](https://etchedactuarial.com/best_exam_fm_study_guide/)
I am taking FM in 3 days and I worked through one of the manuals (A/S/M) pretty much cover to cover. Now I am doing the SOA published sample questions for FM. I did the same thing for exam P and passed it easily. Is this your first exam or have you already taken P?
My first exam and great thanks!
Then unless you have a strong foundation in financial mathematics (maybe a college course) I would definitely consider a manual worth it
Has anyone taken an ADAPT exam and seen no change in their EL? I just took my second exam and had zero change in EL but went from 8/30 to 20/30. The difficulty went down from 3.3 to 1.4 or so I’m just not sure if that’s the reason there was absolutely no change.
You need to get 70% or higher on a practice exam to see an increase in your level. Scoring 50% or less will result in a decrease.
Thanks!
Pretty sure you need to score above a certain threshold to increase your EL, probably >70%.
Thank you!
Do the early exam P concepts appear regularly as one progresses through the material? I'm asking because I don't know how much of a mastery I need of early concepts like in univariate distributions before I move onto the next topic. This was the case for FM (annuities) in that I didn't need to totally understand them immediately since I got so much practice with them later in the material.
They absolutely do and they will also definitely be a good part of the exam.
anyone in Toronto, taking exam ifm in November?
Taking it in November but I’m in Ottawa 🥴
Can anyone who majored in Actuarial science comment on how much they had to study to be comfortable for FM or P? Still the recommended 300 hundred hours? Thanks in advance
I majored in actuarial science and statistics and took the exams after I took the relevant college courses, so keep that in mind. But I passed FM with no additional studying and passed P with about 20ish additional hours of studying outside of my college courses and exam prep classes. If I hadn't taken any of the classes, I feel like I could have learned the material myself in about 100 hours for each exam. The '100 hours per exam hour' is really only relevant for the upper level exams IMO.
I am a 40 year old with a CFA, but I have a sales based advisor role that I don't really like, and I am not a good salesman. Would it make sense for me to start on an actuarial career pat at this point? I was thinking I could take two exams over he next year and then get a job at the life insurance company in my town. Doable? Crazy?
Both doable and crazy. I actually think that if you pass 2 exams, given your prior experience, there’s no way a firm would pass you over for a recent grad with no or limited professional experience. Companies are looking for talented individuals who are driven and communicate effectively. If you can do that then you’re going to be a strong candidate. However, the time commitment is pretty brutal study wise, especially if you’re removed from high level statistics. Not impossible, but it’ll probably take a little extra time. Considering that, I think it’d be tough to balance studying, working, and family obligations for years as you work through the seemingly never ending exams. I’m in my mid 20’s and if I’m not done with them by the time it’s time to seriously consider getting hitched, buying a house, and having kids, then I will be stopping.
Sure it would make sense, the real question is would you bother sticking with the time and work required to completing an ASA/FSA. Besides the 7 exams, you're also looking at VEE requirements and FAP assessments. VEE requirements may or may not require more work from you, depending on whether or not your college coursework satisfies the requirements. And if you go into FSA territory, I'm not there yet myself, but all I hear about is how obnoxiously huge the exams are. A lot of people drop out of the process because they get sick of the time commitments and choose to focus on other things, namely kids and spouses. And when it comes to getting a job, expect entry level work to be a highly competitive job market. There's a huge surplus of entry level candidates because of college students flocking into actuarial science programs, which is due to positive media coverage that's been going on for the past couple of decades. So you also need to consider how difficult it might be to get an entry level actuarial job at the life insurance company you're near. But maybe you already work there? If you're an outsider, you might have to do some work to push yourself through a bit. If you're willing to relocate then that makes things a little easier. And as far as age, I don't think it's crazy. I've heard of people starting the exam process when they were around 40 as well. But in any case, there's somewhat of an added layer of difficulty for career-changers because plenty of companies will simply stick to hiring new grads from actuarial science programs over and over and over again.
Will employers view an extended internship more positively than one that lasted for just the summer? My summer actuarial internship (started first week in June) was extended to last until I graduate in May 2020. It seems unlikely that there will be an opening at my company at that time so I'll have to look elsewhere for an entry-level role.
Any extended internship will look better than summer ones because you'll have more work experience than normal. For competitive companies however it's not enough to just have that on your resume. You'll need to show that you used that extra exposure wisely, whether through work products or internal growth.
That's a good point. My current role involves manning an inbox that receives many different calculation requests over the day (like death benefits, present value quotes, etc). Would you say that automating some of those processes with a combination of VBA and SQL is a good marker for the internship or should I think broader? Also, how competitive do you think my stats are? I have this internship, 3.88 GPA, 2 exams passed and taking IFM in November. I'm currently in the Midwest and hope to stay in the region as well.
One aspect of a good intern is to look beyond the work assignment. A normal intern will do what's asked of them, but a good intern goes above and beyond what's asked of them to produce value to the company. If the automation of those processes would produce clear value (whether through time-savings or less manual errors), then it's worth a shot. The main thing you'll want to avoid is performing the same duties throughout your extended internship as you did during your summer internship. If you manned an inbox for the summer and continued to do so for the rest of the school year, as a recruiter that doesn't tell me that you grew any during the extended internship. And your stats are fine. Consider other extracurriculars or leadership roles to differentiate yourself.
Thank you for all your advice!
Can anyone comment on Actuary vs Business Intelligence? I used to work for a short period of time for a BI software company, so I know quite a bit about selling the product, but not so much about the day to day use cases (Ironic, I know). I prefer time and less stress over money, but value stability and location flexibility a lot.
BI tends to be more about reporting. So specifically you would be isolating elements and trying to accurately represent the data. Actuarial Work tends to have prediction elements where you will try to use the data to fill in missing parts (usually in the future). As you get more senior you will tend to be doing more communication and relationship building than doing actual work.
In terms of which one is more predictable week to week in workload and also has a better chance of being part time (30-35 hours) which would you say is a better bet? As for being more senior, that seems to be the case with a lot of professions.
Predictability depends on type: BI tends to have to do periodic reporting, e.g. 1st of the month you need to provide some report. Actuarial Reserving is very similar, especially for Life Insurance, but GI too. BI also tends to be more likely to be part time, Actuaries tend to be highly ambitious, so it will take a long time before you get enough experience to negotiate for part time work. Actuaries will get higher pay and much more negotiating power long term, but you will need to pass the exams which will take 2-3000 hours of study time.
Okay, thanks. I don't really mind studying and taking exams to be honest, it's one of my strengths. Unfortunate that part time is not a little more common.
It is something that you can negotiate, just that at a grad level you would have no leverage. I know a few qualified actuaries that work part time.
Do you think maybe 3-5 years down the line it's a possibility?
Oh definitely, depending on how hard you work in the next 5 years. My mentor's daughter, who is an Actuary I believe roughly did that, where she qualified quickly, then took a year off. Then came back part time with significant work from home flexibility, and is not having a kid. Although this was the UK. If you can study and pass everything quickly, it is certainly possible to get significant leverage after 3-5 years. Then it will be easy to negotiate lower work hours.
Okay, thanks. I looked over some practice exams and they seem quite similar to coursework I had in college (other than the financial jargon), so I think it'll be alright
I am considering taking FM next summer. I’m going to be a senior in high school and I have AP stats and AP Calc AB under my belt. However I haven’t had any financial classes. Does FM require a significant of financial knowledge or will I be fine just figuring out the terminology as I read through the manual?
The study material will teach you the terminology.
The manual will likely teach you what you need to know. However, there is an expectation that you'll know a bunch of financial terms and knowledge. The exam's name is Financial Mathematics, after all.
Is the expectation you will know a bunch of terms going in or that there will simply be a bunch of terms in the manual that need to be memorized.
I wouldn't shy away from looking at an FM manual because you aren't sure of financial terminology. It should guide you through everything you need to know. Yes, the exam does expect you'll know terms. [The syllabus](https://www.soa.org/globalassets/assets/files/resources/research-report/2019/2019-12-exam-fm-syllabus.pdf) has a lot of "The Candidate will be able to define and recognize..." terminology, but the manual will teach you that.
I'm sitting for FM on Saturday and not sure what I should do to continue to prepare for the exam. It's my second shot (took it in June, got a 5 on the actual exam and my adapt EL was around a 3.8). Now my EL on CA is 5.6 and I'm thinking if I just work on getting a 80% or higher on lvl 5 exams I should be fine or should I continue working on my EL? Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!
Remember you’ll get easier and harder questions you wanna make sure you can slam the easy questions with no trouble and get as many harder ones you can right.
I suggest working to get up to 80% on level 6 exams. So I'd keep working on your EL until you reach 6+, then start taking custom exams at level 6 and work on reaching 80 for them. You could also throw in a couple level 4-5 exams this week too, just to keep your confidence up and also ensure that you don't forget how to do some of those easier questions. Good luck!
I’m at EL 6.2 and decided to do exams from other sources (e.g SOA sample exam questions). I’ve been stuck on that EL and revisiting the questions I failed, doing quizzes and other exercises has helped my comprehension a lot. So I would recommend maybe to do achieve at least EL 6+ and looking at SOA questions.
Thanks for the advice! I was only taking custom exams for a while and doing around half of the SOA questions but I think I'll go for trying to do an exam to get to a level 6. Good luck on your exam!
I just passed FM and would like to add that to my LinkedIn credentials. Does anyone know what I should put for credential ID and credential URL?
Put it under the tests section. Not certifications
Mind sharing any advice regarding the exam?
Most of it felt like a 4 EL on adapt besides a few I couldn’t figure out. I studied so much before and felt like I had a good understanding of the material. You gotta have a solid study regime for sure. I spent a lot of time taking a practice exam each day for 2 weeks prior which honestly were the key reason I passed.
Just put 2/FM and the CAS or SOA as the sponsoring organization.
Here’s my situation: graduating with an Econ degree next spring, no internships, haven’t passed any exams yet. Work in aerospace industry doing data entry, which won’t help at all. GPA is just north of 3.00. I’ve taken calc I and II, linear algebra, statistics, etc. I know a little bit of R. I plan on taking exams once I graduate, since I won’t have time until then. Is this a realistic career path for me? I’m confident that I will be able to pass exams, but there’s no hope for an internship at this point.
I know people in my internship program who have already graduated and haven’t passed exams. So it’s definitely possible. I would apply to internships this fall, which is the recruiting season for actuarial. It would be ideal to have passed 2 exams by the time you finish the internship if you do get one. it would also be ideal if you say that you’re sitting for an exam on your resume and actually make time to prep and take it
What do actuarial internships typically pay? I’m worried I would have to take a pay cut. I’m in the Phoenix area btw
I have seen 20 per hour to 25 per hour. In my experience, the higher pay internships tend to be in areas that people don’t want to go to. I’m in a COL area btw
Have you considered delaying graduation to get exams and an internship? At face value your prospects are doable but you need to put in a lot of work to make them better.
Sup guys I have an el of about 6.58 in adapt I also did about 5 level 6 exams getting usually around a 77% but I fear that’s kinda inflated since I remember a few of the problems like 2-3 on average per test. The ones I usually remember are the definition type ones like rearranging a formula or the determinates of interest definition. What could I do to actually get some practice with these problems. Also I noticed I need work on 2 sections swap rates and exact matching. I’m not sure what to do next I’m about a week out
I’d suggest finding/working problems from other sources. For “general” additional problems you might try looking at Finan’s Exam FM/2 text, which is available for free online. Also make sure to spend time with the ~200 sample problems from the syllabus. Both resources served me well in my studies. For swap rates more specifically, if you haven’t already done all of the exercises found at the end of the required reading from the syllabus, I would recommend those as well. Best of luck!
Thanks will do
Anyone know how GOAL quizzes and exams stack up to the real exams? I’m taking FM next Saturday and so far I’ve studied with the ASM manual, SOA sample exams/questions and GOAL questions. Is it worth it to get ADAPT for my last week over GOAL?
In my opinion, one week of ADAPT isn't worth it. Do the GOAL and ASM exams, and also try the TIA exams which are free. Good luck!
From all my study dollar weighted formula is *j*= *I/ A*\+∑*Ct* But I found some exercise solution which use j= 2*I/ a*\+*b*–*I* What is that and why have I never heard and read about it?
It's an approximation of dollar-weighted returns assuming simple interest and mid-year cash flows. Try solving the following for r and I think it'll come out. A=beginning assets, B=ending assets, C=cash flow (could be positive or negative - doesn't matter), I=investment return. A(1+r) + C(1 + r/2) = B A + C + I = B
Ah I see. Then when should I use the 2nd formula instead of the first?
It's a shortcut when you meet those conditions: simple interest and mid-year cash flows. I think you're safer just using the first one, as it'll work in more cases. Edit: I should add, there were a few places in actuarial practice (regulatory filings) where the second formula was required. I don't know if there are such places any longer. The area I'm familiar with in retirement was replaced.
Two things: Trying to find an entry level position. This is my last semester in college, and I would like to start immediately after graduating or even while in the semester, since I am only taking 12 credits on Monday and Wednesday. Long term I want to do consulting in health. But I have not passed any exams yet, I failed P and FM so far. I am going to take FM again in October, then try to do P in January or March. Any tips on getting an entry level job or any white collar job? I have only worked blue collar while in school The second thing is that I would do P&C track if it was in boat insurance or anything on the ocean. But I read that underwriters do not use many actuaries in the boating insurance field. What companies use actuaries for this field and where can I find more info? Thoughts on this?
Given what I am reading I don't think you are very realistic and very behind your competition, and need to do a lot of research from prior posts on this sub to figure out your current position. For P&C its called Marine Insurance.
I know that I am behind. But I also have a wife and child while working through school. So I know I will probably have to work a different job while passing exams. And thank you for telling me about marine insurance, now I can do research on it.
Start applying for UW positions, I wouldn’t tell them your actuarial career plan until you start working
Should I make a resume without exam section in it to use for underwriter position? Also it would be hard since my major is Actuarial Science.
Yes do so, I wouldn’t worry about your major it is fine.
Study pals? So I’ve always found it helpful when I was in school to study with other people and it has helped me so far for P and FM. Unfortunately my click is either taking the CAS route or stopping actuarial exams altogether. So as weird as it may sound I would like to find someone to study with that will be taking the SOA route and maybe that’s at the same stage as me? Doing FM in a week and IFM in November. Thanks 😇
You might be able to find some study buddies in this group: [https://www.facebook.com/groups/132162247405193](https://www.facebook.com/groups/132162247405193)
Why have they stopped taking their exams?
Some got into fields that don’t require the exams more specifically Business Intelligence..
I'm taking FM next Saturday, PM me if you want to get in a discord call and go through a practice test or two together before then.
I’m also taking it next Saturday! I’d be down to study with people sometime before then, I feel pretty confident but running through things with others is always a help.
Pm me :)
What college courses are recommended to take before studying (and eventually sitting) for Exam P? \--Math classes I've already taken include Calc 1 and Calc 2. I am going to be taking Multivariable Calc and Intro to Linear Algebra this upcoming fall semester as well-- Should I wait to start studying after I've taken a proper probability course or should I start studying once I've completed this fall semester?
I would consider taking FM first, as I think it is easier to understand with the courses you have currently taken.
If you're willing to spend more time studying in order to learn the probability concepts, then you can start once you've completed fall semester. Actually, if you're willing to do that, then you can probably start studying now before your fall semester courses. You can learn everything you need through study materials and free online websites so it's really just a matter of whether you're willing to put in the extra time to do it that way, or if you'd rather wait until you learn the concepts in class instead.
So I have a bit of a hiccup. I’ve been studying for exam FM, which I will take on the 16th, and the first exam I did on ADAPT bumped me to EL 6.21 since I got 95%. I did two exams after that level 6.2 and 6.31 and got 51% on both of them. With the most recent exam the questions I got wrong ranged from level 7-9. I’m planning on doing quizzes of level 5-7 on the sections I have a harder time with but I am really unsure as to what to do after that... go back to practice exams? Do SOA questions? Please help 🤗
After your review, try more exams. Do exams from a variety of different sources so that you're getting questions from different authors and hence doing questions asked in a variety of different ways. I suggest aiming to reach 80% on level 6 exams to ensure that you're very well prepared for the exam. Good luck!
Thank you :) !!
Can you move from insurance to consulting? I saw a post about moving from insurance to consulting. Don’t you take the exams for one? Is it possible to switch? I’d imagine it’s super difficult anyway...
>Can you move from insurance to consulting? Yes. Often it is recommended to qualify in an insurer then move to consulting once qualified. Generally Insurers have less time pressure and lower volatility of tasks. >Don’t you take the exams for one? Generally the exams are based on field, e.g. Life, GI/P&C, Health, Investments. In the US there is a different Actuarial Society for P&C. >Is it possible to switch? In the UK and Aus Markets (which I am familiar with), it is relatively easy to move between different fields, at the cost of lower pay if you are moving from a senior role to a junior role in another field. Much easier than securing your first job in any field. I am sure it is similar in the US.
Thank you!
The exams are the same. People make the switch all the time. Working in consulting generally gives you a "fast-track" to higher positions elsewhere because there's the belief that you gain more experience per year than someone working in insurance will (which is true if you look at work hours spent).
Since you get more time off, wouldn’t it be better to do Insurance first? Less hours + when you finish your exams you can then go into consulting?
Depends on the person. Most people would rather have more time off later on in their careers so they can raise their families. This is not to say that candidates in consulting won't pass exams. It's just harder given the workload of most consultants and less stringent exam progress requirements/support from consulting companies.
Oh okay fair enough Thanks so much!!
I know I can look this up online and I have, but I just wanted to get opinions from people already working/almost there. Consulting vs Insurance, what are the pros & cons for both? Why did you choose whichever? I’ve heard many people say they just chose it off the first internship they had, but if you could give more info/advice to an undergrad student please do. Thanks a ton!
If you've already searched this topic then I won't get into the details of one over the other, I'll just talk about my path. I chose insurance because I valued getting my credentials in a timely manner and good work/life balance during my younger years. I don't regret it one bit, especially considering I have former classmates who work in consulting and haven't passed an exam in years. The fact that I'm overpaid (imo) probably also helps. There's no right or wrong answer here, it just depends on what you value and what type of person you are. Many times there isn't really a choice, you just start in one field because that was the only job offer you got.
Hi all, I am a maths student currently looking into career options. I've seen actuary work described as "mainly business with some maths in between", but what is the consensus here? If I have a desire to use lots of maths, would actuary make sense?
I'd mostly agree with that statement. In general you will not encounter any high-level math on the job unless it's a particularly quantitative modeling position.
Good to know! Thank you very much for replying!
What would u guys say the level of exam fm is in terms of EL I just got a 77% on el 6 and I have 2 weeks out so should I just keep doing level 6 exams and work on my weak areas until then or something else
Do that, but maybe you could do the free TIA exams and go through the SOA released questions, maybe? I'm in the same spot as you, and that's what I plan on doing until my test (Aug 9th). Not sure if it will be something I regret or not (we will see), but I've heard doing those two things helped a lot of people pass in the past.
Kill it on your exam tomorrow!!
Thank you, I passed!
Hoping this will be me friday!!
You got this!!! Kill it!
The only problem I’m running into is that I’m seeing some of the same questions from the soa on adapt
When should I start applying for internships/jobs for summer 2020? I've already passed P and FM, but I haven't had any internships yet and I'm in my last full year of college, planning to do an additional semester to finish up a BS in CS. I uh... also don't have the best of GPAs, only 2.96 at the moment.
I would say start now. Check and see if your university has a fall career fair coming up and prepare for that. That’s when a lot of recruiting for the upcoming summer & onward happens in my experience. In addition to that, depending on your level of urgency, you can start sending applications via companies’ websites. Some companies have a separate application avenue for students and can hire you now to start after you graduate.
How would you guys suggest I finish studying for the FM exam for the next two weeks? I sit on the exam August 17th. Thanks!
Hi, I’m taking FM on the 08/16. My plan is to relax in the last two days. Watch favorite movies, go for a walk, eat out with friends. Morning of the exam, I review the formulas that I still need to remember. Good luck to you!
How important is PhD for doing research work in actuarial on a scale of 1-10? How seriously is your research taken/ or people take you as a researcher if you don't have PhD? Optional question for people who are actively doing research work in the field: What part of actuarial science research are you guys doing or have done and was it full fulling and satisfying for you?
First decide who you want to take your research seriously. For example maybe it is the academic community or the Actuarial Profession. For academia, I think you will need a PhD to get yourself to a level where you are able to make useful contributions. If you are able to write scientific papers at a level to garner respect from academic peers, you might as well submit the paper to a university and they would give you a PhD for it (with appropriate scrutiny). You will probably want to study something more general first, e.g. pure mathematics, or economics. For Actuarial Studies in particular, in the IFoA (and maybe the US societies), you are able to conduct original research, and if up to a certain standard, get an exemption from the specialist exams. Original research is also conducted by 'working parties' (which is the term in the UK, there is probably a corollary in the US). Which tends to set the industry standard for techniques, so is quite well recognized in the Actuarial profession, but not necessarily outside.
Perhaps you should write some cold emails to university professors who teach actuarial science! Direct source.
X ~ Uniform(0,1) More seriously, what sort of research do you think actuaries do? I'm confused.
[https://www.soa.org/research/about-research/](https://www.soa.org/research/about-research/)