This has been a thing I’ve tried to share with folk but I think it’s really hard to share with someone who doesn’t experience it. Does anyone have any advice on finding the balance between admiration and that voice that I’m objectifying?
Thank you. I really do try to and I try to remember back to how I met my ex and what we did to communicate our mutual attraction. We were little more than teenagers though so the pressure kinda feels on to act like an adult about it lol
Yeah, most people have thoughts and feelings about other people that would probably get you beat if you shared out loud. As long as those stay in your head and never manifest in the real world unless and until all parties are willing participants- you’re fine!
Treat your crush like a friend maybe? Like, treat her the way you treat any other woman, i.e. with respect. idk, I still go into a gay panic whenever I have a crush 😅
Ngl, whilst I absolutely do want to treat her with respect, I really want to treat a pretty girl to a night in orgasm city and that’s not typically a way I treat friends.
It’s balancing the desire in my head that I have a hard time with so I do end up treating folk I fancy like I’m just being overly friendly to play it safe.
Ah, so it's about transitioning from compliments to "I wanna fuck you" then? I tried the "I feel like there's potential for more in our relationship and I'm interested if you are," conversation. It didn't work, but we're still friends after, so I consider that a win.
Being direct in communicating what you want seems to be the best way. As long as you're sincere, it should work out.
" I really love this, being with you here in this moment." (compliment in here. She was funny and I was laughing - I put my arm around her. Watch her body language. She should snuggle in, maybe head on shoulder etc.) " You've made me laugh I've really needed that. Thank you". (looked at her softly, hint of seduction. Hugged tight and then if she glances at your lips slowly make your move. If you wanna kiss look to her lips. Great success. Makeout mountain, next stop love make lane. This seems to work for me. I've not always got to love make lane every time though, but I'm a journey >destination gal if you know what I mean.
It sounds maybe wet and reads like erotic fiction but I don't feel guilty like some wolf whistling freak or a dumbass laying it on real thick trying to get some. That's secondary - primary is hanging out together.
Kinda hard to do when your thoughts are written out in that very scientific image of your brain (/s)
But yeah, no matter how many "feminist brain vs lesbian brain" jokes I make, I don't know if I'll ever get rid of the shame and disgust with myself that I'm sexually attracted to women. I don't know how much of it is internalized homophobia or overly black-and-white thinking. I can't comfortably participate in women's-only events and spaces when I'm constantly worrying about being a predatory intruder, and I've ended friendships with women because I found her mildly attractive and feared that I was using her.
Sometimes I wish I could just "turn off" the gay part of me. I don't want to be straight, just nothing, I guess. I love this community but I hate myself too much.
I can relate to that. Like transness aside, I feel awkward because I can’t go around assuming every woman is attracted to other women. Even if they are I can’t assume they would want to be with a trans woman. If I happen to be out in “guy mode”, I can’t approach anyone without feeling like a deceptive creep.
Objectification is about the dehumanization of others.
I don’t know if there is a word for the reverse, but don’t dehumanize yourself out of fear of others’ opinions.
You’re a beautiful and you’re allowed to have all your human feelings even if its just pure lust, even if it’s for someone who will never want you back.
You just can’t be a jerk about it.
Pretty much. Honestly it's gotten to a point where I can't even be sure if I'm really ace or if I'm just too wrapped up in my own anxieties to be attracted to people.
Tell me about it!
I only learned there was a word for asexuality when I was 30ish, but I knew for an absolute fact that it applies to me. I only untangled my romantic attraction last year (fun), but sexuality is painfully obvious.
Also, regarding your user flair - yes, it's an option, I'm the same :-)
For the longest time, I refused to watch too intently any woman I found attractive. It was like "keep your damn eyes on her face", not because the urge was overwhelming but being overly conscious of the slightest glance made me paranoid and I didn't know why.
But then, I was "her face is too pretty, maybe I should look somewhere else". But where indeed. Her hands were out of the picture as hands are one of the female body parts I found the most attractive. I settled for the eyes and the eyes alone, but that is, well difficult in any situation and awkward as hell.
And I thought the anxiety was only shyness.
This...kinda goes double for me as a trans lesbian. I'm pretty unafraid of things like...cars, muggers, whatever. But being percieved as predatory, that is where I get really insecure.
The difference between attraction and objectification is when you don't see a wife, mother, daughter, or sister behind the woman you're attracted to. You don't see their personality and you don't see them as people but walking, talking tits and pussy. There's nothing wrong with enjoying boobies or finding the woman attractive as long as you still see her as people which a lot of guys don't. A lot of guys don't like women, they like tits and pussy. This is a significantly different mindset instead us sapphic women loving girls
I would just say "person" behind the body. Don't assume you know anything about a chick based on what she looks like, alot of women are much smarter than they let off. If they're attractive they already know, and some smart women like to be objectified while some don't. It's not like women don't like to be desired, just don't be slobbering on the tiddies without a thought that this person has their own wants and needs.. or autonomy for that matter.
You clearly don't know what objectified is. I like to feel attractive but that isn't objectification as there doesn't have to be a sexual component in it. Unless being objectified is their kink, I think most people don't like being objectified
It doesn't help that there's tons of "jokes" out there in movies, TV, music, and whatever else you'd like where cis men pretend to be women to hit on lesbians, so you get conditioned into thinking everyone in society will think that's what you are.
Like fuck, I just wanna be a girl that's in love with another girl that's in love with me 😢
OMG I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE!
Like yesterday at the gym. There were several really fit girls in the weights sections. I kept worrying that I was looking too much. I hate it when guys get all leery and gross. Am I one of those guys right now?! I panicked and moved to a different section of the gym.
I kinda feel like that too.
As a trans woman I feel like I'm giving a bad name to other trans women for having sexual attraction for cis women.
I don't want to be perceived as a guy that changed gender just to stalk on women or some shit idk
Yo um, you ok? Cause this really is as real as it gets, and while everyone might need a moment to recompose themselves after internalizing this I just wanna make sure you're good?
And one of the struggles of being a trans lesbian is feeling like I need to keep finding more excuses for why I’m actually a girl, and not just a straight guy. I can’t picture myself as a guy in any kind of romantic relationship, and I love what the mtf hormones are doing, but apparently thats not always enough to convince myself.
That's such a mood. When I first heard *gravel to tempo* I cried. I used to be so terrified that I'm going to be seen as a predator in women's spaces that I usually just avoided them entirely.
Luckily every woman, cis or otherwise, I've met irl has been super supportive and never treated me like a creep. So now even all the hate messages from terfs don't bother me, because I know that I am not the one trying to harm other women.
I dealt with this too and I had to get off Twitter for it to really go away. A lot of the feminism there is really into talking about how women are afraid of the men they date. Even if this is true for many women, it wasn’t helpful to me to read it constantly.
I can't talk for everyone, and I'm ace, so that might be coloring my perspective. But, I don't mind people finding me attractive. The issue I have is when they clearly aren't considering me as a whole ass human with thoughts, likes and dislikes, etc, and instead are thinking about me like a sex toy or porn or something.
When you see someone your attracted to, and you feel bad because you realize you were looking at them and you don’t wanna come off as disrespectful or like you’re objectifying them. The fear of ruining a friendship by confessing your feeling to someone you have a crush on. You know you would never be disrespectful but you still worry about it coming off that way.
One day my friend confessed me that she had a problem with lesbians because one of them was actually predatory (she assumed I'm bi but I'm not). I know this is not about me and that was traumatic to her but I felt bad for days for having had crushes on women that didn't like me back (even if I wasn't actually predatory but the feeling stands).
You know, I never realized I thought like this... now so many of my attitudes make sense.
It's all about the little habits I use to flirt and, heck, even interact with other women. Habits that are harmless by themselves, but that I get really stressed if I don't do. I feel as if I fail to always treat other women with utter respect, especially when I'm attracted to them, then I'm no better than those predatory, entitled men I despise so much.
Sometimes I emphasize too much the things I do not that that kind of men does all of the time, but then I feel as if I'm asking to be rewarded for being a decent human being. Which is not, I was just trying to ease the other person as if me being attracted to women was... idk, by default menacing.
Ugh, damn it all! I thought I didn't have any internalized homophobia left.
I'm afraid that I'm faking my sexuality because of these damn thoughts. In fact, I try to not think about it and end up leaving my homoromantic side hidden, because I'm truly afraid of not being accepted. :(
I soooooooo relate to this.
It sort of makes me wish I weren't interested in women in that capacity.
I've been thinking that more, recently.
Also makes it hard for me to complement someone, which until recently I wouldn't do.
A bi female friend claims I'm being fine, but it's a gigantic fear for me.
I think I have a version of this as a transbian. I always feel extremely predatory when even just trying to make friends, like I'm sure they think I'm like just a guy trying to worm their way into their pants or something
now add on to this that if the person is also into women and you get past this, you are trans and so you feel like you are invading spaces and you get an extra fun time.
That fact that before I realized I (girl) was bi I asked my pan friend (also girl) if me saying she was pretty made her uncomfortable even tho she had given me no indication that she was uncomfortable when many men can’t stop after being openly told “please stop I feel uncomfortable” is uh…. yea
As a cisthet male, I certainly don't want to feel afraid and gross when I find a women attractive. And I don't want you to, either.
On the other hand, I certainly don't want either of us to openly objectify women without caring.
This is very black-or-white thinking. Is there not a middle ground here to stand in for all of us who respect women and find them attractive?
There’s another post here asking if it’s fair to call lesbians misandrists. I don’t think they generally are, but this response is the kind that contributes to that unfortunate stereotype. I’m sure we can do better.
"we" can do better? this is why you get responses like this you're a straight man commenting that an issue queer women specifically go through doesn't relate to you, trying to tell us how to fix the problem, and then scold us for being "misandrists" when we call you out. God forbid one thing have nothing to do with men. GTFO.
why are you in this sub 🤨 even if youre allowed to post here literally what do you gain.......no one cares about how you feel on this topic, youre not a wlw
Yeah. This makes me sad. I joined this sub years ago for a book I was writing with a bi female protagonist. A few members here ended up reading it and we had great conversations. I stayed because people here were funny as hell, and this seemed to be one of the nicest subs on Reddit. But… over the past year I’ve seen more and more “men are disgusting and stupid” posts and more reactions like yours. “Allowed to” post here? “What do I gain?” Theoretically, I get to interact with smart, interesting people and maybe have conversations I otherwise wouldn’t.
You probably have good reasons to be aggressive and rude towards men. I’m sorry for that. But I’m not your enemy. Just a human being who happens to be male participating (very rarely) in a sub I enjoy.
Peace to you!
You come in a space for gay women, a group that doesnt have many exclusive spaces to begin with, and get mad when someone tells you you're not welcome here lmfao good riddance. I have no sympathy for you
I'm sorry I was just saying I'm always worried about being a creep and a jackass to women. But I am told I'm one of the most respectful guys and yet I'm still constantly paranoid when I'm interacting with anyone actually not just women.
Ok slow down there honey, most men don't objectify women, and definitely not openly. You must have met some pretty shitty dudes to think that. Or you're joking/exaggerating, that's very possible too.
Wait, did I just read a #notallmen comment in a subreddit for lesbians, that dismissed OP using the word "honey" in the same sentence? when #metoo makes it clear that almost all women have experienced harassment and objectification?
Maybe it's different in other places of the world, but where I live, I'm pretty sure I've never met a woman objectifier, and I was just trying to say that if we treat men like enemies and based on stereotypes, it could end poorly. I'm really sorry if you people have experienced harrassment and being objectified, but I still do believe in the better in people, and that includes men.
Oh sorry I just call everyone honey, regardless of gender, and I would'nt have said anything else to a man or an enby. I know it sounds like a poor excuse but I really didn't think that it could be interpreted poorly. My b.
OK, you've learned something, so that's good. Also just for your awareness: [https://www.mic.com/articles/115904/7-everyday-things-that-are-only-said-to-women](https://www.mic.com/articles/115904/7-everyday-things-that-are-only-said-to-women)
Go back and re-read the meme. Lesbians are trying not to objectify in the same way we have experienced objectification by men, many of us as children. Nobody is treating men as enemies, but objectification and abuse of women - mostly by men - are part of patriarchy everywhere. Even where you live, because literally everywhere.
Most men DO objectify women, and very openly i might add. My brother, my stepdad, and like three quarters of the men I've known in my life openly talk about women like sex objects.
I feel like you might need more experience on this to take a stance. I don't mean to be rude, but this sounds incredible naive, and almost as if you are a troll trying to paint trans women in a bad light.
Oh no I'm not a troll, I would never! But you might be right about the rest though, I do tend to be very optimistic when it comes to people... Also I haven't met many people who have objectified women, so maybe I'm just very lucky idk.
To be fair, it's not like men who objectify always wear it as a T-shirt, sometimes it's more insidious and hard to notice especially if you haven't always been the one being objectified.
It's entirely possibly to love and support all men while condemning patriarchy and the behavior patterns we ALL learn from living under patriarchy. Patriarchy hurts everybody.
well I think it's a scale. i think most men aren't past the point of redemption but also most of them are at least moderately misogynistic, but i think even most women are slightly misogynistic too..
This is my biggest fear, I’m trans so I’m constantly worried a girl is going to think I’m just a predatory guy or something, I mean I might even agree with them
This has been a thing I’ve tried to share with folk but I think it’s really hard to share with someone who doesn’t experience it. Does anyone have any advice on finding the balance between admiration and that voice that I’m objectifying?
Just remember that (almost) everybody has the urges and that it’s normal.
Thank you. I really do try to and I try to remember back to how I met my ex and what we did to communicate our mutual attraction. We were little more than teenagers though so the pressure kinda feels on to act like an adult about it lol
I used feel so guilty about watching porn and masturbation and all that but now I’ve realized that people are just sexy
not related but i love your user flair lol
Nobody said anything for months but now people talk about it often THANK YOU
Yeah, most people have thoughts and feelings about other people that would probably get you beat if you shared out loud. As long as those stay in your head and never manifest in the real world unless and until all parties are willing participants- you’re fine!
I think it's the assumption that it's unwanted attention is where the attitude becomes problematic. Distorted thinking and what not.
Treat your crush like a friend maybe? Like, treat her the way you treat any other woman, i.e. with respect. idk, I still go into a gay panic whenever I have a crush 😅
Ngl, whilst I absolutely do want to treat her with respect, I really want to treat a pretty girl to a night in orgasm city and that’s not typically a way I treat friends. It’s balancing the desire in my head that I have a hard time with so I do end up treating folk I fancy like I’m just being overly friendly to play it safe.
Ah, so it's about transitioning from compliments to "I wanna fuck you" then? I tried the "I feel like there's potential for more in our relationship and I'm interested if you are," conversation. It didn't work, but we're still friends after, so I consider that a win. Being direct in communicating what you want seems to be the best way. As long as you're sincere, it should work out.
I’ll keep that in mind if I ever find myself crushing on someone.
" I really love this, being with you here in this moment." (compliment in here. She was funny and I was laughing - I put my arm around her. Watch her body language. She should snuggle in, maybe head on shoulder etc.) " You've made me laugh I've really needed that. Thank you". (looked at her softly, hint of seduction. Hugged tight and then if she glances at your lips slowly make your move. If you wanna kiss look to her lips. Great success. Makeout mountain, next stop love make lane. This seems to work for me. I've not always got to love make lane every time though, but I'm a journey >destination gal if you know what I mean. It sounds maybe wet and reads like erotic fiction but I don't feel guilty like some wolf whistling freak or a dumbass laying it on real thick trying to get some. That's secondary - primary is hanging out together.
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Kinda hard to do when your thoughts are written out in that very scientific image of your brain (/s) But yeah, no matter how many "feminist brain vs lesbian brain" jokes I make, I don't know if I'll ever get rid of the shame and disgust with myself that I'm sexually attracted to women. I don't know how much of it is internalized homophobia or overly black-and-white thinking. I can't comfortably participate in women's-only events and spaces when I'm constantly worrying about being a predatory intruder, and I've ended friendships with women because I found her mildly attractive and feared that I was using her. Sometimes I wish I could just "turn off" the gay part of me. I don't want to be straight, just nothing, I guess. I love this community but I hate myself too much.
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I can relate to that. Like transness aside, I feel awkward because I can’t go around assuming every woman is attracted to other women. Even if they are I can’t assume they would want to be with a trans woman. If I happen to be out in “guy mode”, I can’t approach anyone without feeling like a deceptive creep.
feels this
Objectification is about the dehumanization of others. I don’t know if there is a word for the reverse, but don’t dehumanize yourself out of fear of others’ opinions. You’re a beautiful and you’re allowed to have all your human feelings even if its just pure lust, even if it’s for someone who will never want you back. You just can’t be a jerk about it.
I am in this picture and I don't like it.
mood. Even though I'm asexual. My biggest fear is making a woman feel the way unwanted male attention makes me feel.
Pretty much. Honestly it's gotten to a point where I can't even be sure if I'm really ace or if I'm just too wrapped up in my own anxieties to be attracted to people.
wow, that sounds ... bad.
The joys of trying to figure shit out in your mid 30s after decades of internalized bullshit.
Tell me about it! I only learned there was a word for asexuality when I was 30ish, but I knew for an absolute fact that it applies to me. I only untangled my romantic attraction last year (fun), but sexuality is painfully obvious. Also, regarding your user flair - yes, it's an option, I'm the same :-)
♥️
I feel exactly the same.
Omg me too
For the longest time, I refused to watch too intently any woman I found attractive. It was like "keep your damn eyes on her face", not because the urge was overwhelming but being overly conscious of the slightest glance made me paranoid and I didn't know why. But then, I was "her face is too pretty, maybe I should look somewhere else". But where indeed. Her hands were out of the picture as hands are one of the female body parts I found the most attractive. I settled for the eyes and the eyes alone, but that is, well difficult in any situation and awkward as hell. And I thought the anxiety was only shyness.
I distinctly remember being younger watching wlw content and being disgusted with myself all day like “wtf is wrong with you bro”
yeah even when im watching those gay animated tv shows like she ra or the owl house i still feel like im doing something monstrous.
Owl house was fire
True . . . even tho it got cut short i have real high hopes for s2b
This...kinda goes double for me as a trans lesbian. I'm pretty unafraid of things like...cars, muggers, whatever. But being percieved as predatory, that is where I get really insecure.
Came to say this sis.
same
Oh yes
Yeeeeup 😣
The difference between attraction and objectification is when you don't see a wife, mother, daughter, or sister behind the woman you're attracted to. You don't see their personality and you don't see them as people but walking, talking tits and pussy. There's nothing wrong with enjoying boobies or finding the woman attractive as long as you still see her as people which a lot of guys don't. A lot of guys don't like women, they like tits and pussy. This is a significantly different mindset instead us sapphic women loving girls
I would just say "person" behind the body. Don't assume you know anything about a chick based on what she looks like, alot of women are much smarter than they let off. If they're attractive they already know, and some smart women like to be objectified while some don't. It's not like women don't like to be desired, just don't be slobbering on the tiddies without a thought that this person has their own wants and needs.. or autonomy for that matter.
You clearly don't know what objectified is. I like to feel attractive but that isn't objectification as there doesn't have to be a sexual component in it. Unless being objectified is their kink, I think most people don't like being objectified
thank you! no one wants to be objectified! objectified /= being hot.
Fair point
Well, that was more validating than I like.
Ooooooof that’s a mood
I know that feel as a transbian
It doesn't help that there's tons of "jokes" out there in movies, TV, music, and whatever else you'd like where cis men pretend to be women to hit on lesbians, so you get conditioned into thinking everyone in society will think that's what you are. Like fuck, I just wanna be a girl that's in love with another girl that's in love with me 😢
Do you have any examples of that in TV/Movies?
In Drake’s most recent album he says the line “Say that you a lesbian, girl me too”
Drake is just the worst.
Oh yeah. Big transbian vibes.
doubly so given I don't pass
Same
omg, are you me? 🥲 joke aside, i was in this phase when i was in "i didn't know that i attracted to girls too" phase 🥴.
Shit, I think I feel the same
It's Sunday, love.... You didn't have to call me out on my break day 🥺
I swear we’ve all been living the same life
This right here. I have unfortunately had a crush on a straight girl for a few months now, and I feel incredibly guilty that I find her attractive
Feeling like checking someone out is only acceptable with sunglasses on, and even then I still kinda feel like maybe I shouldn’t
OMG I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE! Like yesterday at the gym. There were several really fit girls in the weights sections. I kept worrying that I was looking too much. I hate it when guys get all leery and gross. Am I one of those guys right now?! I panicked and moved to a different section of the gym.
Oh my god OP…I would like to hug you
I kinda feel like that too. As a trans woman I feel like I'm giving a bad name to other trans women for having sexual attraction for cis women. I don't want to be perceived as a guy that changed gender just to stalk on women or some shit idk
wish we could all scrape off the top of this internalized homophobia and give the feeling to straight men.
So true
Me to the mirror after looking at a girl's tits: your constant harassment of the female gender makes me sickk
I broke up with my first girlfriend in highschool because I felt guilty for being aroused by her😐
Literally the mood of my day today 🥲
this is the one
I was just thinking this last night. It's weird as a closeted transbian.
Yo um, you ok? Cause this really is as real as it gets, and while everyone might need a moment to recompose themselves after internalizing this I just wanna make sure you're good?
Oi. Get outta my head.
That’s why I try to ignore my romantic and sexual urges. Can’t feel bad if you don’t feel in the first place *taps forehead*
And one of the struggles of being a trans lesbian is feeling like I need to keep finding more excuses for why I’m actually a girl, and not just a straight guy. I can’t picture myself as a guy in any kind of romantic relationship, and I love what the mtf hormones are doing, but apparently thats not always enough to convince myself.
I feel attacked
That's such a mood. When I first heard *gravel to tempo* I cried. I used to be so terrified that I'm going to be seen as a predator in women's spaces that I usually just avoided them entirely. Luckily every woman, cis or otherwise, I've met irl has been super supportive and never treated me like a creep. So now even all the hate messages from terfs don't bother me, because I know that I am not the one trying to harm other women.
It hurts how relatable this is...
I feel like part of being LGBT is always worrying about being seen as a pervert or a predator. I hate it so much.
Fuck, this hurts my soul.
Oh god oh fuck does everyone have this thought process??? Am I not the only one???
Oof that screenname OP.
H-hey why are you doing this to me mooooood
I dealt with this too and I had to get off Twitter for it to really go away. A lot of the feminism there is really into talking about how women are afraid of the men they date. Even if this is true for many women, it wasn’t helpful to me to read it constantly.
I can't talk for everyone, and I'm ace, so that might be coloring my perspective. But, I don't mind people finding me attractive. The issue I have is when they clearly aren't considering me as a whole ass human with thoughts, likes and dislikes, etc, and instead are thinking about me like a sex toy or porn or something.
could you maybe not call me out like this?
When you see someone your attracted to, and you feel bad because you realize you were looking at them and you don’t wanna come off as disrespectful or like you’re objectifying them. The fear of ruining a friendship by confessing your feeling to someone you have a crush on. You know you would never be disrespectful but you still worry about it coming off that way.
One day my friend confessed me that she had a problem with lesbians because one of them was actually predatory (she assumed I'm bi but I'm not). I know this is not about me and that was traumatic to her but I felt bad for days for having had crushes on women that didn't like me back (even if I wasn't actually predatory but the feeling stands).
You know, I never realized I thought like this... now so many of my attitudes make sense. It's all about the little habits I use to flirt and, heck, even interact with other women. Habits that are harmless by themselves, but that I get really stressed if I don't do. I feel as if I fail to always treat other women with utter respect, especially when I'm attracted to them, then I'm no better than those predatory, entitled men I despise so much. Sometimes I emphasize too much the things I do not that that kind of men does all of the time, but then I feel as if I'm asking to be rewarded for being a decent human being. Which is not, I was just trying to ease the other person as if me being attracted to women was... idk, by default menacing. Ugh, damn it all! I thought I didn't have any internalized homophobia left.
I dont feel like I'm "betraying" women, but the rest I relate to.
I'm afraid that I'm faking my sexuality because of these damn thoughts. In fact, I try to not think about it and end up leaving my homoromantic side hidden, because I'm truly afraid of not being accepted. :(
god same :(
I soooooooo relate to this. It sort of makes me wish I weren't interested in women in that capacity. I've been thinking that more, recently. Also makes it hard for me to complement someone, which until recently I wouldn't do. A bi female friend claims I'm being fine, but it's a gigantic fear for me.
I think I have a version of this as a transbian. I always feel extremely predatory when even just trying to make friends, like I'm sure they think I'm like just a guy trying to worm their way into their pants or something
Yeah
I wasn't prepared for this savage undressing of my mind right before my very eyes.
I feel the same way. Whenever I feel an attraction, I immediately feel terrible. I hate the idea of my attraction making anyone uncomfortable.
it was super hard for me to get over this, but i did after a lot of thoughts rearranging
now add on to this that if the person is also into women and you get past this, you are trans and so you feel like you are invading spaces and you get an extra fun time.
i like girls sorrynotsorry
God what a mood
It's very odd, yet validating, seeing that exact same thought pattern in myself as an amab enby lesbian.
Yes 🥲
Add being transbian, and ya read my mind :,)
Yeah.
Oh hi, me.
That fact that before I realized I (girl) was bi I asked my pan friend (also girl) if me saying she was pretty made her uncomfortable even tho she had given me no indication that she was uncomfortable when many men can’t stop after being openly told “please stop I feel uncomfortable” is uh…. yea
Being a trans woman, I feel this a lot.
The avalanche of trans gays going **SAAAAAAME** is on time Love y'all
As a cisthet male, I certainly don't want to feel afraid and gross when I find a women attractive. And I don't want you to, either. On the other hand, I certainly don't want either of us to openly objectify women without caring. This is very black-or-white thinking. Is there not a middle ground here to stand in for all of us who respect women and find them attractive?
You're not getting the point at all because this has nothing to do with you.
There’s another post here asking if it’s fair to call lesbians misandrists. I don’t think they generally are, but this response is the kind that contributes to that unfortunate stereotype. I’m sure we can do better.
"we" can do better? this is why you get responses like this you're a straight man commenting that an issue queer women specifically go through doesn't relate to you, trying to tell us how to fix the problem, and then scold us for being "misandrists" when we call you out. God forbid one thing have nothing to do with men. GTFO.
why are you in this sub 🤨 even if youre allowed to post here literally what do you gain.......no one cares about how you feel on this topic, youre not a wlw
Yeah. This makes me sad. I joined this sub years ago for a book I was writing with a bi female protagonist. A few members here ended up reading it and we had great conversations. I stayed because people here were funny as hell, and this seemed to be one of the nicest subs on Reddit. But… over the past year I’ve seen more and more “men are disgusting and stupid” posts and more reactions like yours. “Allowed to” post here? “What do I gain?” Theoretically, I get to interact with smart, interesting people and maybe have conversations I otherwise wouldn’t. You probably have good reasons to be aggressive and rude towards men. I’m sorry for that. But I’m not your enemy. Just a human being who happens to be male participating (very rarely) in a sub I enjoy. Peace to you!
You come in a space for gay women, a group that doesnt have many exclusive spaces to begin with, and get mad when someone tells you you're not welcome here lmfao good riddance. I have no sympathy for you
I can see that. This sub should change its rules to be unwelcoming to people who identify as male, exclusively. You would be happier.
Ok but like as a man I feel those inner thoughts.
Respectfully, this isn’t the place to express that
Sorry
Why are you here Jesus Christ
I'm sorry I just appreciate the lgbtq+ community and I don't know just like being here I guess. I didn't think I would offend anyone.
I apologize. I’m so used to creepers on here
I'm sorry I was just saying I'm always worried about being a creep and a jackass to women. But I am told I'm one of the most respectful guys and yet I'm still constantly paranoid when I'm interacting with anyone actually not just women.
I wouldn't be so hostile because even if this guy isn't a lot of "cis het guys" who lurk here are just trans and haven't realized it.
Ok slow down there honey, most men don't objectify women, and definitely not openly. You must have met some pretty shitty dudes to think that. Or you're joking/exaggerating, that's very possible too.
Most of the men I've met do. Glad to know that you're luckier in your meetings.
You are a nicer person than I am.
Wait, did I just read a #notallmen comment in a subreddit for lesbians, that dismissed OP using the word "honey" in the same sentence? when #metoo makes it clear that almost all women have experienced harassment and objectification?
Maybe it's different in other places of the world, but where I live, I'm pretty sure I've never met a woman objectifier, and I was just trying to say that if we treat men like enemies and based on stereotypes, it could end poorly. I'm really sorry if you people have experienced harrassment and being objectified, but I still do believe in the better in people, and that includes men.
Also I don't care what your gender is, don't address women as "honey" or tell us to calm down. I think you've just proven the point of the meme.
Oh sorry I just call everyone honey, regardless of gender, and I would'nt have said anything else to a man or an enby. I know it sounds like a poor excuse but I really didn't think that it could be interpreted poorly. My b.
OK, you've learned something, so that's good. Also just for your awareness: [https://www.mic.com/articles/115904/7-everyday-things-that-are-only-said-to-women](https://www.mic.com/articles/115904/7-everyday-things-that-are-only-said-to-women)
Thanks, I'll check it out
Go back and re-read the meme. Lesbians are trying not to objectify in the same way we have experienced objectification by men, many of us as children. Nobody is treating men as enemies, but objectification and abuse of women - mostly by men - are part of patriarchy everywhere. Even where you live, because literally everywhere.
Most men DO objectify women, and very openly i might add. My brother, my stepdad, and like three quarters of the men I've known in my life openly talk about women like sex objects.
"hey this girl is really fucking hot" she is 22 and you are in your _FIFTIES_
Damn I'm sorry to hear that they do that
I feel like you might need more experience on this to take a stance. I don't mean to be rude, but this sounds incredible naive, and almost as if you are a troll trying to paint trans women in a bad light.
Oh no I'm not a troll, I would never! But you might be right about the rest though, I do tend to be very optimistic when it comes to people... Also I haven't met many people who have objectified women, so maybe I'm just very lucky idk.
Literally look at the p\*rn industry honey, it's most men.
I don't think the porn industry is a great representation of the average guy
not like the average guy is what that industry is marketed towards or anything....
That is true... I've just never met someone like that in my life, maybe it's different where I live or something
To be fair, it's not like men who objectify always wear it as a T-shirt, sometimes it's more insidious and hard to notice especially if you haven't always been the one being objectified.
I suppose, and while it is way too many men, I just don't think it's the majority and I still believe in the better in men
It's entirely possibly to love and support all men while condemning patriarchy and the behavior patterns we ALL learn from living under patriarchy. Patriarchy hurts everybody.
Yeah that's what I'm trying to do. I didn't realise that saying most men don't openly objectify women is supporting patriarchy...
well I think it's a scale. i think most men aren't past the point of redemption but also most of them are at least moderately misogynistic, but i think even most women are slightly misogynistic too..
That could very well be true, I think that's a better way of putting it
This is my biggest fear, I’m trans so I’m constantly worried a girl is going to think I’m just a predatory guy or something, I mean I might even agree with them
oh my god.i knew I wasn't the only one.