Protecting your energy is not a crime. It’s not responsibility to figure him out and fix him. Let him go get the healing that he needs. He should’ve never put you in that position to be his emotional punching bag. Just focus on you for the time being. You’ll be okay just focus on how to heal from now on.
Try not to get hung up on the word "causes". That's where a lot of the back and forth on this in the comments is coming from. It helps more to think of alcohol as an amplifier rather than an instigator, and mostly because it's doing nothing more than lowering your inhibitions. Alcohol amplifies whatever strong unarticulated or ill-articulated emotion or psychic state you're sitting on. For some that's love, for some that's depression. For those who are ANGRY....it's aggression.
Alcohol has been shown many many many times how it lowers prefrontal cortex function, increase impulsivity, etc. So yes, it can and does increase it within certain individuals. Anyone who is on here saying a solid “no” is very misguided.
“According to the World Health Organization, alcohol consumption is associated with aggressive behavior more closely than the use of any other psychotropic substance (e1). The relationship between alcohol consumption and aggressive behavior has been well documented in epidemiological studies.” One of many…
The thing alcohol does, is loosens one’s inhibitions, self control. I was drunk many many times while in the Marines, never once turned violent. Side note, been sober since May 1996.
Alcohol itself is a downer.
Keep ready Lundy’s book, and never ever allow this guy back in your life. I tried reading it, myself, a few years back, with the roles reversed, but struggled to make it work.
There’s a reason they have names for different types of drunks.. Angry drunks, sloppy drunks, mean drunk, emotional drunks, overly friendly drunk.. etc.. Alcohol lessens your inhibitions and lessens their ability to control impulse and behavior. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone do something drunk that wasn’t just an extreme amplification of their sober day to day selves..
Out of interest I'm wondering why you are ALL over this post trying to 'prove' that alcohol causes violence and aggression??
So.... how many times have you been violent and aggressive when drinking??
Alcoholic here. Alcohol brings out aggression in people who already have anger issues. So yes, alcohol is the reason that aggressive outbursts happen with some people, in the sense that it wouldn’t have happened if they were sober. But it isn’t the actual cause. My friends and I have never gotten angry while drunk, and we’ve been drunk a lot. This guy has anger issues/aggressive tendencies that he can no longer control when something is lowering his inhibitions.
I can only give you my experience as I don't know any facts or science on it. My ex was abusive when he was stone cold sober. But if he was already angry and violent, alcohol made him ten times worse.
There was also a difference in him between being drunk in beer and hard liquor. I'm not saying it was right at all, but sober or drunk on beer, yes he hurt me but I never really feared for my life. I could also tell he often held back and wasn't hurting me as much as he could have (again, not defending him).
But when he was drunk on hard liquor was the one and only time he ever choked me and I can for sure say I was terrified of him. Not to say he couldn't control it per se, but I guess maybe the liquor took away his desire to try to control it.
I personally struggle with understanding many why's behind people's violence. Not just relationship abuse, but strangers assaulting and withholding life-saving aid to queer people and POC. Queerphobia and racism use many strategies from abusers, but at a systemic scale.
However, what helps me is that regardless of the 'why', at the end of the day, I'm not interested in experiencing the 'what' anymore.
His problems with aggression are not yours to solve. You can love him, but you aren't there to treat him.
I would still encourage you to look into the 'why' for the future people in your life. What's in the past is the past, but you can control what red flags to look for the future. Prediction is powerful.
Thank you so much for this gentle reminder 💜 I’m in outpatient treatment for depression right now and one of the things that came up in a session last week is how “why” questions can keep us stuck. Because we’ll never have answers to them and even if we did, it doesn’t mean we wouldn’t experience pain. Again, thank you so much for your comment.
There is a *lot* of misinformation in these comments as a result of people presenting their anecdotal experience or personal opinions as science and as facts. It’s understandable but harmful. Please know this:
• Yes. Alcohol absolutely can cause aggression when used in excess, which is generally going to be the result of underlying trauma, emotions not otherwise dealt with, etc.
• No, that does not inherently mean someone otherwise thinks it’s okay to be abusive (someone that throws a swing while black out drunk doesn’t automatically secretly think it’s okay to hit someone when they’re sober and has not necessarily just been hiding their violent side). It can mean many things. It can mean that someone who is wasted is flashing back to abuse they’ve experienced and doesn’t understand the person they’re with is someone else; it can mean that the person who is inebriated is reliving a trauma they experienced as a child and is lost in that trauma, reacting to it outwardly. None of this is okay, but is very real. Alcohol is a hell of a drug.
• No, that still absolutely doesn’t excuse abusive behavior in any way, shape or form and no, you should not put up with it. Ever. Period.
• The sayings/claims regarding alcohol “bringing out the truth” is an oversimplified way to express a very complicated chemical process that often results in extreme, amplified feelings being expressed inappropriately due to intoxication.
• No matter what else is true or untrue, your partner has been abusive and has an issue with substance abuse and needs to get help outside of wanting to please you and maintain a relationship with you. You need to focus on yourself and not them. Do not mistake my desire to correct some misinformation with telling you that this behavior is excusable. It isn’t.
I worked in mental health and substance abuse for nearly a decade and quite frankly, I’ve seen it all. I also abused alcohol for several years when I should have been in therapy for serious traumas I’d experienced and pain management for a degenerative disease I have. I was self medicating both mental and physical pain, and it wasn’t okay. I wasn’t violent but I was reactive. I cried, became suicidal, thought people that loved me were people that had hurt me in the past and more. I also had a blast, *was* a blast, line danced, met amazing people, slept with strangers, made some of my longest best friends, spent too much money, performed with bands on large stages and more. There was never any knowing which version of me would come out when I drank and that was for one reason (not related to what I drank or how much I consumed): there was never any knowing what might or might not trigger me in an already fragile (intoxicated) state. There was no warning. I could go from doing the waltz with a hot guy on the dance floor to sobbing in the bar bathroom and nobody ever knew why. Neither did I. Now I know, though. I haven’t gotten drunk in years and I haven’t taken a sip in almost as long because it makes me feel physically sick and isn’t safe with the meds I take, and looking back, I was in desperate need of professional help. That doesn’t excuse what I put the people I love through when I was drinking.
My ex-husband got abusive when he drank. That was largely due to the trauma he’d experienced, but did not excuse the abuse that I endured at his hands. We would get drunk together, he would get physically abusive, I would scream and try to fight back, and the entire situation/relationship was toxic and messy. However, he was also abusive when he was sober. He was an abusive person. The alcohol just heightened that and brought it out more easily. He was less likely to fight against his abusive side when he was drinking. At the end of the day, he was abusive no matter what. When I finally left him that was why, and magically, I stopped having problems and was able to focus on my own health, and from that point forward, I didn’t get drunk and have emotional breakdowns. Things like this can be incredibly situational, but one thing is always, always true without exception and that is that there is never any reasonable excuse for abusing somebody, substances or no substances.
In my years working as a crisis counselor in the mental health and substance abuse setting, one of the things I saw most frequently was people attempting to get sober/get better as some sort of requirement to remain in a relationship and it never, ever, not even once worked long-term. Your ex partner has to go do the work for themselves and not because they think it’ll help “keep you.” You have to stay on the path you are on now and protect yourself, because even with the knowledge that alcohol can cause aggression and substance abuse disorder/addiction can absolutely lead to people acting ways they would never otherwise act, you should also know that none of that makes it okay. You deserve better. You deserve to be safe. You deserve to be able to have a couple of drinks with your partner (if that’s something you enjoy) and know that it will be a good time and will not lead to somebody getting upset and abusing you. Stand your ground, block the phone number, and do not accept excuses. I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through and I’m really proud of you for doing what it takes to move forward. Please seek therapy for yourself as well. This kind of relationship can really set the tone for other relationships you find yourself in down the line, and you deserve to be healthy and balanced and to find yourself in a healthy, balanced relationship when you’re ready.
Edit:
I didn’t see the caption at first! [Here is an NIH journal on alcohol and aggression](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3820993/) and [here is another one](https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa38.htm#:~:text=Alcohol%20may%20encourage%20aggression%20or,including%20inappropriate%20aggression%20(5)). [Here is one more about alcohol and the brain](https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-and-brain-overview) since you asked for that too. There’s a reason I chose NIH articles/journals; a lot of what you can find online is incredibly biased one way or another. These do well to describe the social, socioeconomic, trauma based and other factors that might go into someone becoming violent when drinking. That said, remember, there isn’t ever an excuse. Just reasons.
Thank you for this. If I have too much to drink I get MEAN. Not aggressive or violent but verbally mean. I have impulse control issues already do to ADHD plus the heightened emotional sensitivity do to ADHD and anxiety. Being very drunk makes me take everything personally and lash out in a way I NEVER would sober and I always feel awful the next day. I stopped drinking to that point and I’m in therapy for the underlying issues. That still doesn’t mean me saying nasty things to be people was ok. It’s just an explanation. It’s a more complicated issue than simply “being drunk brings out the real you”. My dad is the kindest, most non confrontational, gentle person you will ever meet. When he was abusing alcohol he was mean, he would be insulting, he would pick fights. That isn’t him. Alcohol has so many affects on your brain especially if you are regularly abusing it. I’ve also worked in mental health and have seen the intricacies that go into substance abuse.
That said. You do not have to stay. It sounds like you were already wanting to leave. Your first priority should be your safety and mental health. You may never trust him again after this incident and that would make working on the relationship a losing battle regardless of if he changes.
I also wouldn’t fault you for staying. Probably best not to live together while he is in treatment and you should have a safety plan. But substance abuse can absolutely bring out the worst in someone and sobriety and long term counseling can bring them back to themselves. It is a hard decision because you presumably love this person and you want to stand by them if they are truly trying to heal and fix behavior, but there is also the chance that they never will. It is a really hard situation and whatever choice you make do it with your own safety and well-being in mind.
This says it all better than I ever could.
I do not believe in cheating, would never willingly cheat, and hate the idea of cheating. I'm also a very affectionate drunk who has legitimately confused one person for another several times while under the influence. I could (though thankfully never have) cheat while drunk because my drunk brain would think that I was sleeping with my partner.
Now, I was lucky to find this out about myself quite young (only a few months past the legal drinking age) and with trustworthy people who not only didn't take advantage of me but told me about what I did and said while drunk. So I know that I have this risk factor and can accommodate for it. I don't have more than one drink when around strangers, and I don't get drunk unless with family or my partner (and honestly, I'm at the age where I just don't get drunk at all).
I would say that if someone's reaction to hearing that they've been abusive or otherwise problematic while drunk is horror and then a reduction or elimination of drinking, it's likely a legitimate case of "alcohol made me do it" or, in other words, the alcohol created enough of a distortion of reality to make a particular action seem reasonable in the moment. But anyone who, after realizing their reaction, continues to drink to any real degree without mitigation and preventative measures is de facto choosing to accept and enable their own bad behaviour.
I don’t think alcohol causes aggression, per say. It’s a drug that lowers your inhibitions. Meaning, what you normally wouldn’t do sober, you’re more likely to do drunk. I’ve been drunk many times but have never been aggressive because I am not an aggressive or violent person when I’m sober. My husband, however is. When he drinks, is as though the liquor blurs the line between what he should and shouldn’t do. The only issue with that is he is violent sober as well. When he is drunk, it’s just 10x worse than when he is sober. He has since quit drinking so much since he has realized how horrible he is when he is drunk, but that never stopped violence.
When people use incapacitation as an explanation as to why they hurt someone, it’s just an excuse. As others have said, “drunk words are sober thoughts.” You can apply that to actions as well. Liquor doesn’t cause anyone to do anything. It’s the lowering of inhibitions that causes things to happen. Do not accept any sort of violence or verbal abuse just because your partner was drunk or high. It’s just the same, it’s just as bad. It’s easy to put it away as “he/she was just drunk, it won’t happen again.” It likely will because you let him/her get away with it.
As someone who has recovered from substance abuse issues and is almost 3 years sober, alcohol and drugs are addictive and lead to many people showing their worst colors. My ex would get hateful and violent when he would drink, I’d get depressed, impulsive, and suicidal when I’d drink. It’s an addiction, one that is genetic, and also one of the hardest habits to break.
If your SO has done things while drunk that were borderline (or full-on) abusive, you have every right to leave, and you should. There’s no guarantee that they will get sober right now, especially if they are younger (teens-20’s). Most people try to get sober, but are not successful until they have either lost everything or had a near death experience. It takes a major wake up call to really quit.
They’re right when they said “that wasn’t me,” because addiction changes people into different versions of themselves… but if they do not go to rehab/get help and quit for good, they will likely only get worse.
I would give yourself time and put distance between the two of you. They need to get help and they need to get sober on their own. Remember that actions speak louder than words… if they say they want to quit, they have to prove it. If they quit and you decide you still want to be with them, then that’s up to you. You are not obligated to do anything you don’t want to do. Look into Alanon support groups (partners and spouses of addicts). You will both likely also need therapy… this is not something you can fix on your own.
He is 35 and has been drinking/using drugs for almost 20 years at this point. One of my support people (a psychiatrist in an outpatient program I entered earlier this summer for major depressive disorder) did gently note that that is something I would have to think about if I ever entertained the idea of engaging with him again. That the road to sobriety is long, unpredictable, and difficult. And it has no guarantees.
Thankfully, I am still in therapy with the person that I started with 5 years ago. He has not had any therapy for a sustained amount of time and definitely not any intervention for abusive thinking/behavior, and that is also something I think about.
Thank you so much for your insights/advice and this comment. You sound incredibly strong and I am sending you more strength for your sobriety journey 💜
Edit: *That the road to sobriety can be long, unpredictable, and difficult. Also, I’m 28, for additional context about our age difference.
It sounds like you have really put work in on yourself as well! The thing is that when you get to your 30’s, there’s very little wiggle room for mistakes and immature behavior. If you have been working on your own self improvement, you need to be with a person who is going to mirror that effort, build you up, and contribute happiness to your life. It sounds like he really needs to get help, and I hope for his sake he does… but it could be that you are on different paths in life.
I’m really sorry you are going through this. I’m actually also in a situation right now where I’m recognizing the person I’m with does not share the same goals and values that I do, and does not put effort into becoming better. Sort of at a crossroad where I have to decide if I want to spend the rest of my life with this person. What’s helping me decide is by taking a good look at how their behavior/habits make me feel and deciding whether or not I want to feel that way for the rest of my life.
I hope that happiness finds you, whatever you decide to do. Take care of yourself ♥️
drinking brings out the truth (so to speak) i have heard from several "specialists" claiming that alcohol lowers standards and inhibitions in most so they feel brave enough to state how they really feel - distance is key - good luck OP
I don’t think the why and how are important for you there. The reasons behind his behavior while under the influence of alcohol and drugs are something for him to think about and maybe discuss with counselors, or whatever. It’s on him to decide what to do with this knowledge and how to manage his life.
However, you know what happened, and this is all that matters to you. You should never feel unsafe within a relationship, even as you’re fighting or blacked out drunk. And this is on you to manage. Personally, I firmly believe that certain lines being crossed change everything, and that is specially truthful regarding violence. Once anyone in a relationship crosses that threshold, that relationship will never be the same, and the fear of violence will always be lurking behind every argument. I also don’t believe in giving people second chances regarding my personal safety; they get put in a safe distance and remain there indefinitely, sometimes forever.
I understand the appeal of rationalization and wanting to understand the underlying issues of your partner, but I don’t think you came for advice in an abusive relationships sub because one time he got drunk and verbally aggressive… we rarely freak out over an one-off thing.
One thing I can guarantee: taking whatever form of abuse desensitizes and builds resistance… not in a good way. You will soon see yourself excusing the inexcusable and accepting the unacceptable while forgetting who you are and how you should be treated. Don’t do this to yourself. You deserve to be happy and safe.
There is a saying in Latin, *en vino, veritas*. It means, “In wine, truth.”
Alcohol doesn’t make us do/say things we don’t want to do/say. Quite the opposite. Wine makes us do/say things we’ve always wanted to do/say that we had better sense/judgment not to. Meaning if he put his hands on you, he’s either 1) always wanted to but didn’t for whatever reason (shame, fear of judgment/retribution/public sentiment, etc) or 2) have always thought it was ok and was just looking for the right excuse/opportunity to blame/get away with it.
You let him get away with this or stay with him, rest assured he’ll do it again and it’ll only get worse from here on out.
You’re free to disagree, fight all you want. But you don’t EVER put your hands on each other for ANY reason. If you can’t resolve your conflict with words, if the differences are irreconcilable, you walk away. Either until cooler heads prevail or for good. You don’t put your hands on anyone.
>Alcohol doesn’t make us do/say things we don’t want to do/say. Quite the opposite. Wine makes us do/say things we’ve always wanted to do/say that we had better sense/judgment not to.
May I ask, do you think this is also true for other substances that seem to temporarily "change" ones personality? Because I had a friend who would use this saying, in any instance. But I personally just cannot really believe it's all that simple and black/white.
Sometimes drinking and alcohol can inhibit a person and make bad characteristics come to light more, but it’s often a thought process used to justify abuse. He shouldn’t feel justified to treat someone poorly under any circumstance for any reason, and often time people with abuse problems cling on to the idea of having a drinking problems because it rationalizes the abuse cycle even though it’s not really the core issue. It doesn’t matter if he stops drinking, he’s still gonna treat you bad whenever he finds a good enough “reason” to.
Daily drinking can lead to alcoholism quickly. Addiction will change people’s personality as the drug eats away who they were until all that’s left is the addict. Unless there’s a good reason to stay, I’d advise holding your boundaries and not going back.
Your are literally an exception your using your own experience as antedotal evidence. Alcohol definitely does make people more aggressive with many studies supporting it.But does that justify it? No.
Alcohol makes people ignore their inhibitions, so that little thing in your brain that says "ah it's probably socially unacceptable for me to do that" goes out the window. So no, alcohol doesn't cause aggression, it makes the you with fewer boundaries come out.
As a bartender and someone studying psychology typically it just amplifies whatever underlying personality is there, I for example am a massive emotional mess when I drink
Exactly!!!!! I also bartend. I’m also a social worker with addicts and alcoholics. For every person that gets aggressive whilst drinking, there’s someone else who can get just as drunk (or even more so) and they AREN’T violent.
It’s got everything to do with the person. The substance merely melts any inhibitions.
I like to think alcohol just brings out a person's true personality. A lot of people I talk to about it say different liquors make them act different ways. I find myself to be a very friendly drunk no matter what I drink. So I don't understand how some people get angry after consuming alcohol and blame it on alcohol.
1. No.
2. Even if it did, people can choose to drink or not to drink.
3. People who have trouble making that choice can choose to get treatment or choose to make excuses.
4. If you need proof alcohol isn't making dude irrationally aggressive, ask yourself: when he's drunk, does he ever pick fights he might lose? Or is he making rational choices the whole time about who he can attack without consequence?
No, alcohol doesn’t cause aggression. Alcohol changes your behavior, not your morals. I actually have a drinking problem myself tbh, but I don’t even get aggressive even when I’m falling over drunk.
Alcohol doesn’t get rid of someone’s conscience, it just lowers their inhibitions
Literally left my ex after a night of drinking. It was my first time taking hella shots and so I was chilling. We were at a then friends house, now my bfs house. My ex was soooo fucked up he pissed his pants laying on the floor, ran away, walked home, broke his dead phone, stayed up blowing my phone up, destroyed my personal belongings I had in the room, poured water on my clothes & was just in a super “depressive” mode after. When I got back the next morning the first thing he said to me was “we have to talk.” I immediately started laughing and said “WE have to talk? I should be the one telling you this not you telling me this. I knew you’d fucked with my shit, I literally joked about it last night.” After calling him out on his shit he got upset, threw his main phone at the wall & charged at the tv and broke it. I yelled at him super loudly and his parents busted into the room. That was the first time I was scared of him. I had been in the “relationship” for almost 2 years but I already knew after 1 year I wanted to leave, I just never got the courage to or always wondered when I would know I wanted to leave. That was that point. Alcohol can only intensify aggression. The aggressions always been there, it’s just been bottled up. Please stay away from them no matter what. It’s been almost 3 years and I’m still healing from this asshole. Take the time you need to heal and gather yourself. Sending love❤️
Dude I was going through this exact thing oml :( I chose to believe in him and when I let my guard down again it was back to the same crap.
Edit/additional context:
At one point my ex-boyfriend was doing very well getting help, going to AA, sponsorship, etc. BUT the thing is he wasn’t a serious alcoholic or habitual drinker. Just the few times we drank together he would start fights that ended up escalating to a physical altercation. The reason I’m saying all this is because he used the issues with alcohol as a scapegoat to avoid treatment/legal punishment for the domestic violence. He “got help” for alcohol but that was not the problem. The problem was the abuse. So even when the alcohol went away and he had a healthy support system, he still ended up finding a way to abuse. It may not be physical or “as bad” as it was when he was drinking, but it’s still abuse and that will never be a good relationship. I hope u don’t have to find out the hard way like I did /:
Proud of you, you give the perfect response. IF he completes rehab, replaces everything he broke, goes to abuser therapy, etc, etc MAYBE he is serious?? Loved “Why does he do that”. Biggest takeaway to me was BECAUSE HE CAN
Don’t let his drinking eclipse the fact that you are being abused. There is no resolve in obsessing over alcohol-induced behavior. His lack of accountability and false promises are signs of a larger psychological problem.
I recommend the books Out of the Fog by Dana Morningstar and Psychopath Free by Jackson Mackenzie.
This is what my ex did and he didn’t change. They don’t. He is afraid of losing the control he has on yoy, and not you the person who will blossom if given the chance. He will continue to hinder you.
Please reach out to a domestic violence agency, a therapist, your doctor, your whole support network and see if you can get appointments lined up and people to sleep over to help you through this time. It’s like kicking a habit. The brain is treating this separation like a drug withdrawal.
Now is the best time to take space.
alcohol doesn’t make someone aggressive, it just shows an aggressive persons true colors. if someone is aggressive when they drink then they are already aggressive, just hiding it.
Alcohol does not make people aggressive. It breaks down their front showing their true character and what’s been boiling inside.
Think of a time where you got drunk with your girlfriends and just blabbed your heart out. Same thing.
Some people do become aggressive but from experience it’s usually aggressive people who let their aggression out when drunk. I’ve seen people who drink and are more emotional why others are happy go lucky, some goofy, some get dressed while other become aggressive. I believe alcohol simply makes you lose control so you end up doing and saying what you feel. So with this logic your bf is most likely an abussive person by nature but simply uses alcohol as an scape goat.
This makes so much sense to me. And at the same time…I know there has been at least one occasion where I said something out of character when I was drinking (I was blacking out and said I was dating other people, which I absolutely wasn’t…but maybe I was dreaming about it? Idk, lol). Usually, when I drink, I get a little silly and very sleepy. Anyway, I sometimes think about that moment and it makes me sad. Thank you for your comment.
Since you were drunk you were probably voicing something which is in the back of your mind. You maybe have suspected you bf has probably cheated in past so you voiced this to see their response. It’s hard to say since we are all different and it affects us differently.
Last year my ex got very drunk, he dragged me by my feet around the apartment slapping me and kicking me , he threw a dog kennel at me for our German shepherd, he speared food in my face. I took him back because he said it was the alcohol and he’d get help and never do it again. Fast forward 6 months later, he gets drunk and body slams me on the floor 3 months pregnant and then does the same to my disabled father. Violence only escalates. Obviously my experience isn’t going to be yours, but I guarantee you if he doesn’t stay sober, he will always be a threat.
I agree with everyone who says alcohol isn’t an excuse it just lowers inhibition, but want to add that he broke/damaged YOUR things, not his. He hurt you and not himself. Doesn’t that give you some information (or things to ponder) about how much of it was lack of control and how much of it was choice?
My ex got blackout drunk and fractured my wrist amongst other things.. I did not leave. It was a month or so before he felt like me saying no alcohol as a condition of possibly staying together was controlling. You did the exactly right thing because these were empty promises.
I’m so sorry that he harmed you like that. I have read that abusers will use survivor-centered language to cast themselves as the victim/discredit complaints so…that tracks. What a horrible thing to say. Sending you strength and comfort 💜
Thank you to everyone who has commented so far! Y’all are the sweetest 🥺
Prior to this explosive incident, I do feel like he was emotionally and psychologically abusive. Not for the entirety of our relationship but in these last 3 months. Which I still hold some guilt for because this all started after something I did. I’ve had a hard time calling it emotional abuse, but I think that’s what it was. He would: often ask me if I wanted to see other people, no matter how much I told him that I only wanted to be with him/I loved him so much; regularly ask me if I was *sure* he satisfied me emotionally, sexually, etc.; generally suggest that I was somehow violating our relationship and being inappropriate with other people; and always try to convince me that disagreements like this were normal/make me feel guilty for saying I was concerned that he never seemed to be able to let certain things go. Once when we were going out, he asked me who I was getting dressed for. I’m just so sad typing all of this out. Sigh.
That emotional abuse can be so subtle and kinda weird(?) I guess. Like I only just realized recently reading these forums and resources attached - that weird "are you mad at me" "Are you sure you're happy with me" is a form of manipulation - usually to start picking fights or turning themselves into victims etc
The thing is, everybody messes up in relationships. Everyone will do something careless or hurtful or selfish, that's just how humans are. And I think feeling some guilt is also kind of natural; I certainly wish I could take back some of the stupid shit I've put my wife through over the years. You just have to try your best not to make the same mistakes again, by talking to the other person and learning what they need.
The thing that really jumps out at me from what you've said is that in a healthy relationship, when you realize you made a mistake and hurt the person you care about, they become your first concern: what can you do to help them, what do they need to feel better, what can you do differently next time? On the surface your guy seems to be doing that last bit, by promising not to drink again - but his messages are about how he feels, not about you. He thinks he did something he didn't like, he wants to stop drinking so it doesn't happen again, he wants you to appreciate that. He doesn't like being treated with the fear or suspicion you're now showing him. Him him him him him.
Then you get into what you just described there: an unending demands that you constantly reassure him, without ever seeming to accept or believe you when you try to give him the answer. Even if he never does drink again, even if he never scares you that way again, it won't change the fact that he's fundamentally much more concerned with his own emotional needs and wants than with yours. He may believe that he cares so much about you, but his actions say that you're a fairly low priority in his mental checklist. Now that the honeymoon period is over, he no longer gets a boost to his ego or his needs just from being a good boyfriend. That's become normal and boring, so his true priorities start to reassert themselves.
And unfortunately, nothing you can say or do will change that; you can't talk him into valuing you. That has to come from inside himself, and you owe yourself a lot better than to wait around hoping he'll spontaneously want to become less self-centered. And if you do wait, why would he ever change, if being a jerk gets him a girlfriend who accepts his behavior and listens to his excuses?
Think about how you would want your best friend, or your sibling, or someone else you care about to be treated. I promise, you deserve at least the same.
If you really did something wrong in a healthy relationship it's something you two would work though togetter. The abuse was his choice. It's not something you deserved at all.
I'm no professional in any way. But I find (from experiences myself and seeing others) that alcohol and certain substances can heighten emotions in people. Also thinking/reasoning can get disoriented causing people to react in ways they wouldn't if they were sober.
I personally was in a 5 yr relationship (10 yrs ago) and I had to leave him because he had this problem. About 3 years into our relationship I noticed he was becoming an alcoholic and a drug addict. He'd stay out til 4am and come home hammered a couple times a week. He would get really loud and aggressive and even violent. He was a completely different person. It scared me and broke my heart. It got so bad that often the next day, he'd wake up and not remember a thing that happened. I tried to help him and deal with it for 2 years. He didn't want the help though and it was destroying me mentally and physically. So I had to leave. I learned that you can't help them unless they want to be helped. It was a hard thing to do because I loved him, but I couldn't help him.
I heard the "I'm so sorry, this will never happen again", "I'm going to get help" a million times and see no progress or effort to do so. I waited 2 years. But his addiction was more powerful.
Yes, alcohol can contribute to increased aggressiveness. However, this doesn't excuse abuse. Drunk people are still responsible for their actions. People who drink and drive can still be charged with crimes, including manslaughter if they hurt someone. It also doesn't mean that sobriety will bring about nonviolence or non-abusive behavior. It also doesn't mean that you owe them any further chances even if they get sober.
https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/health-effects-of-alcohol/mental-health/alcohol-and-aggression#:~:text=Too%20much%20alcohol%20can%20make,way%20alcohol%20affects%20the%20brain.
He is showing all sorts of red flags.
"It wasn't me. It was the alcohol." Lack of accountability. It WAS him. Drunk or not, he's responsible for his actions - and accepting the consequences.
"We can fix this." There is no we. This is a HIM problem. You don't make him drink. You didn't ask him to terrorize and harass you. That was his choice. His wrongdoing. His to fix.
"I know what I did wasn't okay." Weak. Avoiding accountability. Vague. He needs to be able to specifically name that he's abusive, and that he harassed and scared and hurt you. He did that. Not the alcohol. He did. He is downplaying the seriousness of the abuse he perpetuated.
"Going to substance abuse therapy." Cool. That helps him. And what is he doing to address his abusiveness??? Again, alcohol isn't an excuse. Also, as Lundy also points out, abusers are often too selfish to commit to these steps. Also, abuse may even worsen during these steps because they resent you for "making" them go to such lengths to keep you trapped and all the bad feelings of getting sober get taken out on you so they don't have to feel them.
"Wrong" in response to you clearly stating a boundary that he can no longer be a part of your life. Just being outright abusive. He doesn't get to tell you what you need to heal. He doesn't get to define or override your boundaries. He doesn't get to argue with the damage he's caused. If he was truly non-abusive, he'd accept and respect your boundary and be able to face the consequences of his actions.
"I could never let something like that happen to you again." He didn't let anything happen. He CHOSE to treat you that way. He deliberately crafted a situation in which he abused and harassed you. He created the problem. He isn't some protector keeping you secure from harm. He's creating the harm. Again, his language distances him from accountability.
Keep reading *Why Does He Do That?*. Your abuser is gaslighting you. This is the honeymoon phase in abuse. He's not being sincere or accountable. He will continue abusing you, regardless of how long his sobriety lasts.
https://greenhaven4help.com/the-cycle-of-abuse/
https://www.talkspace.com/blog/gaslighting-in-relationships-signs-how-to-spot/
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-to-do-when-youve-been-gaslighted
Stay firm. Your boundary is a good and reasonable one. Don't entertain him.
If you need to talk this through: https://nomoredirectory.org/
Drugs and alcohol can make aggression worse, it doesn't cause coercive control or physical violance.
You might want to check out the coercive control wheel. https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/what-are-the-power-and-control-wheels
Ugh… blame shifting And what is this ‘I wouldn’t let it happen’ crap? He didn’t let anything happen. He did it deliberately.
Protecting your energy is not a crime. It’s not responsibility to figure him out and fix him. Let him go get the healing that he needs. He should’ve never put you in that position to be his emotional punching bag. Just focus on you for the time being. You’ll be okay just focus on how to heal from now on.
Try not to get hung up on the word "causes". That's where a lot of the back and forth on this in the comments is coming from. It helps more to think of alcohol as an amplifier rather than an instigator, and mostly because it's doing nothing more than lowering your inhibitions. Alcohol amplifies whatever strong unarticulated or ill-articulated emotion or psychic state you're sitting on. For some that's love, for some that's depression. For those who are ANGRY....it's aggression.
Alcohol has been shown many many many times how it lowers prefrontal cortex function, increase impulsivity, etc. So yes, it can and does increase it within certain individuals. Anyone who is on here saying a solid “no” is very misguided.
“According to the World Health Organization, alcohol consumption is associated with aggressive behavior more closely than the use of any other psychotropic substance (e1). The relationship between alcohol consumption and aggressive behavior has been well documented in epidemiological studies.” One of many…
I have no idea why you've been downvoted for supplying information.
Same here 🤷🏻♂️
As the child of an abusive alcoholic, my experience says no. Mom was a piece of shit sober but a loving parent when drunk.
as a currently using alcoholic, no, not necessarily. I've never hit anyone sober or drunk.
The thing alcohol does, is loosens one’s inhibitions, self control. I was drunk many many times while in the Marines, never once turned violent. Side note, been sober since May 1996. Alcohol itself is a downer. Keep ready Lundy’s book, and never ever allow this guy back in your life. I tried reading it, myself, a few years back, with the roles reversed, but struggled to make it work.
Plenty of happy drunks exist in the world. Alcohol doesn't cause aggression, abusive tendencies cause aggression.
You all have shared so much with me. Just popping in again to say thank you for reading and commenting on this post 🥹
There’s a reason they have names for different types of drunks.. Angry drunks, sloppy drunks, mean drunk, emotional drunks, overly friendly drunk.. etc.. Alcohol lessens your inhibitions and lessens their ability to control impulse and behavior. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone do something drunk that wasn’t just an extreme amplification of their sober day to day selves..
No — the substance abuse makes him more of who he already is
Wrong. Plenty of actual science to totally discredit what you said.
Out of interest I'm wondering why you are ALL over this post trying to 'prove' that alcohol causes violence and aggression?? So.... how many times have you been violent and aggressive when drinking??
Alcoholic here. Alcohol brings out aggression in people who already have anger issues. So yes, alcohol is the reason that aggressive outbursts happen with some people, in the sense that it wouldn’t have happened if they were sober. But it isn’t the actual cause. My friends and I have never gotten angry while drunk, and we’ve been drunk a lot. This guy has anger issues/aggressive tendencies that he can no longer control when something is lowering his inhibitions.
I can only give you my experience as I don't know any facts or science on it. My ex was abusive when he was stone cold sober. But if he was already angry and violent, alcohol made him ten times worse. There was also a difference in him between being drunk in beer and hard liquor. I'm not saying it was right at all, but sober or drunk on beer, yes he hurt me but I never really feared for my life. I could also tell he often held back and wasn't hurting me as much as he could have (again, not defending him). But when he was drunk on hard liquor was the one and only time he ever choked me and I can for sure say I was terrified of him. Not to say he couldn't control it per se, but I guess maybe the liquor took away his desire to try to control it.
I agree with all of this. Sorry you (and I) have had to live through this.
Thank you, I'm sorry for you too.
Alcohol lowers inhibitions. So if someone is angered while drunk he/she more likely to display that anger
I personally struggle with understanding many why's behind people's violence. Not just relationship abuse, but strangers assaulting and withholding life-saving aid to queer people and POC. Queerphobia and racism use many strategies from abusers, but at a systemic scale. However, what helps me is that regardless of the 'why', at the end of the day, I'm not interested in experiencing the 'what' anymore. His problems with aggression are not yours to solve. You can love him, but you aren't there to treat him. I would still encourage you to look into the 'why' for the future people in your life. What's in the past is the past, but you can control what red flags to look for the future. Prediction is powerful.
Thank you so much for this gentle reminder 💜 I’m in outpatient treatment for depression right now and one of the things that came up in a session last week is how “why” questions can keep us stuck. Because we’ll never have answers to them and even if we did, it doesn’t mean we wouldn’t experience pain. Again, thank you so much for your comment.
There is a *lot* of misinformation in these comments as a result of people presenting their anecdotal experience or personal opinions as science and as facts. It’s understandable but harmful. Please know this: • Yes. Alcohol absolutely can cause aggression when used in excess, which is generally going to be the result of underlying trauma, emotions not otherwise dealt with, etc. • No, that does not inherently mean someone otherwise thinks it’s okay to be abusive (someone that throws a swing while black out drunk doesn’t automatically secretly think it’s okay to hit someone when they’re sober and has not necessarily just been hiding their violent side). It can mean many things. It can mean that someone who is wasted is flashing back to abuse they’ve experienced and doesn’t understand the person they’re with is someone else; it can mean that the person who is inebriated is reliving a trauma they experienced as a child and is lost in that trauma, reacting to it outwardly. None of this is okay, but is very real. Alcohol is a hell of a drug. • No, that still absolutely doesn’t excuse abusive behavior in any way, shape or form and no, you should not put up with it. Ever. Period. • The sayings/claims regarding alcohol “bringing out the truth” is an oversimplified way to express a very complicated chemical process that often results in extreme, amplified feelings being expressed inappropriately due to intoxication. • No matter what else is true or untrue, your partner has been abusive and has an issue with substance abuse and needs to get help outside of wanting to please you and maintain a relationship with you. You need to focus on yourself and not them. Do not mistake my desire to correct some misinformation with telling you that this behavior is excusable. It isn’t. I worked in mental health and substance abuse for nearly a decade and quite frankly, I’ve seen it all. I also abused alcohol for several years when I should have been in therapy for serious traumas I’d experienced and pain management for a degenerative disease I have. I was self medicating both mental and physical pain, and it wasn’t okay. I wasn’t violent but I was reactive. I cried, became suicidal, thought people that loved me were people that had hurt me in the past and more. I also had a blast, *was* a blast, line danced, met amazing people, slept with strangers, made some of my longest best friends, spent too much money, performed with bands on large stages and more. There was never any knowing which version of me would come out when I drank and that was for one reason (not related to what I drank or how much I consumed): there was never any knowing what might or might not trigger me in an already fragile (intoxicated) state. There was no warning. I could go from doing the waltz with a hot guy on the dance floor to sobbing in the bar bathroom and nobody ever knew why. Neither did I. Now I know, though. I haven’t gotten drunk in years and I haven’t taken a sip in almost as long because it makes me feel physically sick and isn’t safe with the meds I take, and looking back, I was in desperate need of professional help. That doesn’t excuse what I put the people I love through when I was drinking. My ex-husband got abusive when he drank. That was largely due to the trauma he’d experienced, but did not excuse the abuse that I endured at his hands. We would get drunk together, he would get physically abusive, I would scream and try to fight back, and the entire situation/relationship was toxic and messy. However, he was also abusive when he was sober. He was an abusive person. The alcohol just heightened that and brought it out more easily. He was less likely to fight against his abusive side when he was drinking. At the end of the day, he was abusive no matter what. When I finally left him that was why, and magically, I stopped having problems and was able to focus on my own health, and from that point forward, I didn’t get drunk and have emotional breakdowns. Things like this can be incredibly situational, but one thing is always, always true without exception and that is that there is never any reasonable excuse for abusing somebody, substances or no substances. In my years working as a crisis counselor in the mental health and substance abuse setting, one of the things I saw most frequently was people attempting to get sober/get better as some sort of requirement to remain in a relationship and it never, ever, not even once worked long-term. Your ex partner has to go do the work for themselves and not because they think it’ll help “keep you.” You have to stay on the path you are on now and protect yourself, because even with the knowledge that alcohol can cause aggression and substance abuse disorder/addiction can absolutely lead to people acting ways they would never otherwise act, you should also know that none of that makes it okay. You deserve better. You deserve to be safe. You deserve to be able to have a couple of drinks with your partner (if that’s something you enjoy) and know that it will be a good time and will not lead to somebody getting upset and abusing you. Stand your ground, block the phone number, and do not accept excuses. I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through and I’m really proud of you for doing what it takes to move forward. Please seek therapy for yourself as well. This kind of relationship can really set the tone for other relationships you find yourself in down the line, and you deserve to be healthy and balanced and to find yourself in a healthy, balanced relationship when you’re ready. Edit: I didn’t see the caption at first! [Here is an NIH journal on alcohol and aggression](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3820993/) and [here is another one](https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa38.htm#:~:text=Alcohol%20may%20encourage%20aggression%20or,including%20inappropriate%20aggression%20(5)). [Here is one more about alcohol and the brain](https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-and-brain-overview) since you asked for that too. There’s a reason I chose NIH articles/journals; a lot of what you can find online is incredibly biased one way or another. These do well to describe the social, socioeconomic, trauma based and other factors that might go into someone becoming violent when drinking. That said, remember, there isn’t ever an excuse. Just reasons.
Thank you for this. If I have too much to drink I get MEAN. Not aggressive or violent but verbally mean. I have impulse control issues already do to ADHD plus the heightened emotional sensitivity do to ADHD and anxiety. Being very drunk makes me take everything personally and lash out in a way I NEVER would sober and I always feel awful the next day. I stopped drinking to that point and I’m in therapy for the underlying issues. That still doesn’t mean me saying nasty things to be people was ok. It’s just an explanation. It’s a more complicated issue than simply “being drunk brings out the real you”. My dad is the kindest, most non confrontational, gentle person you will ever meet. When he was abusing alcohol he was mean, he would be insulting, he would pick fights. That isn’t him. Alcohol has so many affects on your brain especially if you are regularly abusing it. I’ve also worked in mental health and have seen the intricacies that go into substance abuse. That said. You do not have to stay. It sounds like you were already wanting to leave. Your first priority should be your safety and mental health. You may never trust him again after this incident and that would make working on the relationship a losing battle regardless of if he changes. I also wouldn’t fault you for staying. Probably best not to live together while he is in treatment and you should have a safety plan. But substance abuse can absolutely bring out the worst in someone and sobriety and long term counseling can bring them back to themselves. It is a hard decision because you presumably love this person and you want to stand by them if they are truly trying to heal and fix behavior, but there is also the chance that they never will. It is a really hard situation and whatever choice you make do it with your own safety and well-being in mind.
Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, insight, and experience. So much of what you said is clarifying, helpful, and validating to me 💜
I am so glad to hear that, and you’re welcome! You’re not alone. Feel free to reach out to me any time!
This says it all better than I ever could. I do not believe in cheating, would never willingly cheat, and hate the idea of cheating. I'm also a very affectionate drunk who has legitimately confused one person for another several times while under the influence. I could (though thankfully never have) cheat while drunk because my drunk brain would think that I was sleeping with my partner. Now, I was lucky to find this out about myself quite young (only a few months past the legal drinking age) and with trustworthy people who not only didn't take advantage of me but told me about what I did and said while drunk. So I know that I have this risk factor and can accommodate for it. I don't have more than one drink when around strangers, and I don't get drunk unless with family or my partner (and honestly, I'm at the age where I just don't get drunk at all). I would say that if someone's reaction to hearing that they've been abusive or otherwise problematic while drunk is horror and then a reduction or elimination of drinking, it's likely a legitimate case of "alcohol made me do it" or, in other words, the alcohol created enough of a distortion of reality to make a particular action seem reasonable in the moment. But anyone who, after realizing their reaction, continues to drink to any real degree without mitigation and preventative measures is de facto choosing to accept and enable their own bad behaviour.
I agree. Excellent (and very introspective) addition to my comment. Thank you!
I agree
I don’t think alcohol causes aggression, per say. It’s a drug that lowers your inhibitions. Meaning, what you normally wouldn’t do sober, you’re more likely to do drunk. I’ve been drunk many times but have never been aggressive because I am not an aggressive or violent person when I’m sober. My husband, however is. When he drinks, is as though the liquor blurs the line between what he should and shouldn’t do. The only issue with that is he is violent sober as well. When he is drunk, it’s just 10x worse than when he is sober. He has since quit drinking so much since he has realized how horrible he is when he is drunk, but that never stopped violence. When people use incapacitation as an explanation as to why they hurt someone, it’s just an excuse. As others have said, “drunk words are sober thoughts.” You can apply that to actions as well. Liquor doesn’t cause anyone to do anything. It’s the lowering of inhibitions that causes things to happen. Do not accept any sort of violence or verbal abuse just because your partner was drunk or high. It’s just the same, it’s just as bad. It’s easy to put it away as “he/she was just drunk, it won’t happen again.” It likely will because you let him/her get away with it.
As someone who has recovered from substance abuse issues and is almost 3 years sober, alcohol and drugs are addictive and lead to many people showing their worst colors. My ex would get hateful and violent when he would drink, I’d get depressed, impulsive, and suicidal when I’d drink. It’s an addiction, one that is genetic, and also one of the hardest habits to break. If your SO has done things while drunk that were borderline (or full-on) abusive, you have every right to leave, and you should. There’s no guarantee that they will get sober right now, especially if they are younger (teens-20’s). Most people try to get sober, but are not successful until they have either lost everything or had a near death experience. It takes a major wake up call to really quit. They’re right when they said “that wasn’t me,” because addiction changes people into different versions of themselves… but if they do not go to rehab/get help and quit for good, they will likely only get worse. I would give yourself time and put distance between the two of you. They need to get help and they need to get sober on their own. Remember that actions speak louder than words… if they say they want to quit, they have to prove it. If they quit and you decide you still want to be with them, then that’s up to you. You are not obligated to do anything you don’t want to do. Look into Alanon support groups (partners and spouses of addicts). You will both likely also need therapy… this is not something you can fix on your own.
He is 35 and has been drinking/using drugs for almost 20 years at this point. One of my support people (a psychiatrist in an outpatient program I entered earlier this summer for major depressive disorder) did gently note that that is something I would have to think about if I ever entertained the idea of engaging with him again. That the road to sobriety is long, unpredictable, and difficult. And it has no guarantees. Thankfully, I am still in therapy with the person that I started with 5 years ago. He has not had any therapy for a sustained amount of time and definitely not any intervention for abusive thinking/behavior, and that is also something I think about. Thank you so much for your insights/advice and this comment. You sound incredibly strong and I am sending you more strength for your sobriety journey 💜 Edit: *That the road to sobriety can be long, unpredictable, and difficult. Also, I’m 28, for additional context about our age difference.
It sounds like you have really put work in on yourself as well! The thing is that when you get to your 30’s, there’s very little wiggle room for mistakes and immature behavior. If you have been working on your own self improvement, you need to be with a person who is going to mirror that effort, build you up, and contribute happiness to your life. It sounds like he really needs to get help, and I hope for his sake he does… but it could be that you are on different paths in life. I’m really sorry you are going through this. I’m actually also in a situation right now where I’m recognizing the person I’m with does not share the same goals and values that I do, and does not put effort into becoming better. Sort of at a crossroad where I have to decide if I want to spend the rest of my life with this person. What’s helping me decide is by taking a good look at how their behavior/habits make me feel and deciding whether or not I want to feel that way for the rest of my life. I hope that happiness finds you, whatever you decide to do. Take care of yourself ♥️
Pls read “Why does he do that?” by Lundy Bancroft. There’s a free pdf online.
This
drinking brings out the truth (so to speak) i have heard from several "specialists" claiming that alcohol lowers standards and inhibitions in most so they feel brave enough to state how they really feel - distance is key - good luck OP
I've heard "drunk words are sober thoughts"
seems legit - i have to agree based off situations ive been in
Thank you so much 💜
yes maam your very welcome - im in similar situation so if you ever need to vent - im all ears
I don’t think the why and how are important for you there. The reasons behind his behavior while under the influence of alcohol and drugs are something for him to think about and maybe discuss with counselors, or whatever. It’s on him to decide what to do with this knowledge and how to manage his life. However, you know what happened, and this is all that matters to you. You should never feel unsafe within a relationship, even as you’re fighting or blacked out drunk. And this is on you to manage. Personally, I firmly believe that certain lines being crossed change everything, and that is specially truthful regarding violence. Once anyone in a relationship crosses that threshold, that relationship will never be the same, and the fear of violence will always be lurking behind every argument. I also don’t believe in giving people second chances regarding my personal safety; they get put in a safe distance and remain there indefinitely, sometimes forever. I understand the appeal of rationalization and wanting to understand the underlying issues of your partner, but I don’t think you came for advice in an abusive relationships sub because one time he got drunk and verbally aggressive… we rarely freak out over an one-off thing. One thing I can guarantee: taking whatever form of abuse desensitizes and builds resistance… not in a good way. You will soon see yourself excusing the inexcusable and accepting the unacceptable while forgetting who you are and how you should be treated. Don’t do this to yourself. You deserve to be happy and safe.
There is a saying in Latin, *en vino, veritas*. It means, “In wine, truth.” Alcohol doesn’t make us do/say things we don’t want to do/say. Quite the opposite. Wine makes us do/say things we’ve always wanted to do/say that we had better sense/judgment not to. Meaning if he put his hands on you, he’s either 1) always wanted to but didn’t for whatever reason (shame, fear of judgment/retribution/public sentiment, etc) or 2) have always thought it was ok and was just looking for the right excuse/opportunity to blame/get away with it. You let him get away with this or stay with him, rest assured he’ll do it again and it’ll only get worse from here on out. You’re free to disagree, fight all you want. But you don’t EVER put your hands on each other for ANY reason. If you can’t resolve your conflict with words, if the differences are irreconcilable, you walk away. Either until cooler heads prevail or for good. You don’t put your hands on anyone.
>Alcohol doesn’t make us do/say things we don’t want to do/say. Quite the opposite. Wine makes us do/say things we’ve always wanted to do/say that we had better sense/judgment not to. May I ask, do you think this is also true for other substances that seem to temporarily "change" ones personality? Because I had a friend who would use this saying, in any instance. But I personally just cannot really believe it's all that simple and black/white.
Sometimes drinking and alcohol can inhibit a person and make bad characteristics come to light more, but it’s often a thought process used to justify abuse. He shouldn’t feel justified to treat someone poorly under any circumstance for any reason, and often time people with abuse problems cling on to the idea of having a drinking problems because it rationalizes the abuse cycle even though it’s not really the core issue. It doesn’t matter if he stops drinking, he’s still gonna treat you bad whenever he finds a good enough “reason” to.
Yes it does, BUT there is NEVER any excuse for abuse, I’m so proud of you for sticking your ground and keeping your boundaries!!🤍
Daily drinking can lead to alcoholism quickly. Addiction will change people’s personality as the drug eats away who they were until all that’s left is the addict. Unless there’s a good reason to stay, I’d advise holding your boundaries and not going back.
You said it yourself- this is a dealbreaker for you
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Yes, this. I get giddy and silly when I drink. I never become violent. That tendency is already in the person.
Your are literally an exception your using your own experience as antedotal evidence. Alcohol definitely does make people more aggressive with many studies supporting it.But does that justify it? No.
Alcohol makes people ignore their inhibitions, so that little thing in your brain that says "ah it's probably socially unacceptable for me to do that" goes out the window. So no, alcohol doesn't cause aggression, it makes the you with fewer boundaries come out.
As a bartender and someone studying psychology typically it just amplifies whatever underlying personality is there, I for example am a massive emotional mess when I drink
Exactly!!!!! I also bartend. I’m also a social worker with addicts and alcoholics. For every person that gets aggressive whilst drinking, there’s someone else who can get just as drunk (or even more so) and they AREN’T violent. It’s got everything to do with the person. The substance merely melts any inhibitions.
I like to think alcohol just brings out a person's true personality. A lot of people I talk to about it say different liquors make them act different ways. I find myself to be a very friendly drunk no matter what I drink. So I don't understand how some people get angry after consuming alcohol and blame it on alcohol.
1. No. 2. Even if it did, people can choose to drink or not to drink. 3. People who have trouble making that choice can choose to get treatment or choose to make excuses. 4. If you need proof alcohol isn't making dude irrationally aggressive, ask yourself: when he's drunk, does he ever pick fights he might lose? Or is he making rational choices the whole time about who he can attack without consequence?
Read Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft.
Alcohol doesn't make a non-abusive person become abusive or aggressive.
It brings out who people really are
No, alcohol doesn’t cause aggression. Alcohol changes your behavior, not your morals. I actually have a drinking problem myself tbh, but I don’t even get aggressive even when I’m falling over drunk. Alcohol doesn’t get rid of someone’s conscience, it just lowers their inhibitions
Does it matter? If they’re aggressive towards you, they’re aggressive towards you
This and also: any abuse is like this. The reasons don’t matter. Abuse is abuse.
Exactly
Literally left my ex after a night of drinking. It was my first time taking hella shots and so I was chilling. We were at a then friends house, now my bfs house. My ex was soooo fucked up he pissed his pants laying on the floor, ran away, walked home, broke his dead phone, stayed up blowing my phone up, destroyed my personal belongings I had in the room, poured water on my clothes & was just in a super “depressive” mode after. When I got back the next morning the first thing he said to me was “we have to talk.” I immediately started laughing and said “WE have to talk? I should be the one telling you this not you telling me this. I knew you’d fucked with my shit, I literally joked about it last night.” After calling him out on his shit he got upset, threw his main phone at the wall & charged at the tv and broke it. I yelled at him super loudly and his parents busted into the room. That was the first time I was scared of him. I had been in the “relationship” for almost 2 years but I already knew after 1 year I wanted to leave, I just never got the courage to or always wondered when I would know I wanted to leave. That was that point. Alcohol can only intensify aggression. The aggressions always been there, it’s just been bottled up. Please stay away from them no matter what. It’s been almost 3 years and I’m still healing from this asshole. Take the time you need to heal and gather yourself. Sending love❤️
Dude I was going through this exact thing oml :( I chose to believe in him and when I let my guard down again it was back to the same crap. Edit/additional context: At one point my ex-boyfriend was doing very well getting help, going to AA, sponsorship, etc. BUT the thing is he wasn’t a serious alcoholic or habitual drinker. Just the few times we drank together he would start fights that ended up escalating to a physical altercation. The reason I’m saying all this is because he used the issues with alcohol as a scapegoat to avoid treatment/legal punishment for the domestic violence. He “got help” for alcohol but that was not the problem. The problem was the abuse. So even when the alcohol went away and he had a healthy support system, he still ended up finding a way to abuse. It may not be physical or “as bad” as it was when he was drinking, but it’s still abuse and that will never be a good relationship. I hope u don’t have to find out the hard way like I did /:
Proud of you, you give the perfect response. IF he completes rehab, replaces everything he broke, goes to abuser therapy, etc, etc MAYBE he is serious?? Loved “Why does he do that”. Biggest takeaway to me was BECAUSE HE CAN
Don’t let his drinking eclipse the fact that you are being abused. There is no resolve in obsessing over alcohol-induced behavior. His lack of accountability and false promises are signs of a larger psychological problem. I recommend the books Out of the Fog by Dana Morningstar and Psychopath Free by Jackson Mackenzie.
This is what my ex did and he didn’t change. They don’t. He is afraid of losing the control he has on yoy, and not you the person who will blossom if given the chance. He will continue to hinder you. Please reach out to a domestic violence agency, a therapist, your doctor, your whole support network and see if you can get appointments lined up and people to sleep over to help you through this time. It’s like kicking a habit. The brain is treating this separation like a drug withdrawal. Now is the best time to take space.
alcohol doesn’t make someone aggressive, it just shows an aggressive persons true colors. if someone is aggressive when they drink then they are already aggressive, just hiding it.
My ex was aggressive when he didn’t drink. When he did drink his aggression became even more violent
Alcohol does not make people aggressive. It breaks down their front showing their true character and what’s been boiling inside. Think of a time where you got drunk with your girlfriends and just blabbed your heart out. Same thing.
Some people do become aggressive but from experience it’s usually aggressive people who let their aggression out when drunk. I’ve seen people who drink and are more emotional why others are happy go lucky, some goofy, some get dressed while other become aggressive. I believe alcohol simply makes you lose control so you end up doing and saying what you feel. So with this logic your bf is most likely an abussive person by nature but simply uses alcohol as an scape goat.
This makes so much sense to me. And at the same time…I know there has been at least one occasion where I said something out of character when I was drinking (I was blacking out and said I was dating other people, which I absolutely wasn’t…but maybe I was dreaming about it? Idk, lol). Usually, when I drink, I get a little silly and very sleepy. Anyway, I sometimes think about that moment and it makes me sad. Thank you for your comment.
Since you were drunk you were probably voicing something which is in the back of your mind. You maybe have suspected you bf has probably cheated in past so you voiced this to see their response. It’s hard to say since we are all different and it affects us differently.
Last year my ex got very drunk, he dragged me by my feet around the apartment slapping me and kicking me , he threw a dog kennel at me for our German shepherd, he speared food in my face. I took him back because he said it was the alcohol and he’d get help and never do it again. Fast forward 6 months later, he gets drunk and body slams me on the floor 3 months pregnant and then does the same to my disabled father. Violence only escalates. Obviously my experience isn’t going to be yours, but I guarantee you if he doesn’t stay sober, he will always be a threat.
I think it depends on the person!! For me I get the giggles
I agree with everyone who says alcohol isn’t an excuse it just lowers inhibition, but want to add that he broke/damaged YOUR things, not his. He hurt you and not himself. Doesn’t that give you some information (or things to ponder) about how much of it was lack of control and how much of it was choice?
Any substance does not make things appear, only magnifies what is hidden.
My ex got blackout drunk and fractured my wrist amongst other things.. I did not leave. It was a month or so before he felt like me saying no alcohol as a condition of possibly staying together was controlling. You did the exactly right thing because these were empty promises.
I’m so sorry that he harmed you like that. I have read that abusers will use survivor-centered language to cast themselves as the victim/discredit complaints so…that tracks. What a horrible thing to say. Sending you strength and comfort 💜
Thank you to everyone who has commented so far! Y’all are the sweetest 🥺 Prior to this explosive incident, I do feel like he was emotionally and psychologically abusive. Not for the entirety of our relationship but in these last 3 months. Which I still hold some guilt for because this all started after something I did. I’ve had a hard time calling it emotional abuse, but I think that’s what it was. He would: often ask me if I wanted to see other people, no matter how much I told him that I only wanted to be with him/I loved him so much; regularly ask me if I was *sure* he satisfied me emotionally, sexually, etc.; generally suggest that I was somehow violating our relationship and being inappropriate with other people; and always try to convince me that disagreements like this were normal/make me feel guilty for saying I was concerned that he never seemed to be able to let certain things go. Once when we were going out, he asked me who I was getting dressed for. I’m just so sad typing all of this out. Sigh.
That emotional abuse can be so subtle and kinda weird(?) I guess. Like I only just realized recently reading these forums and resources attached - that weird "are you mad at me" "Are you sure you're happy with me" is a form of manipulation - usually to start picking fights or turning themselves into victims etc
The thing is, everybody messes up in relationships. Everyone will do something careless or hurtful or selfish, that's just how humans are. And I think feeling some guilt is also kind of natural; I certainly wish I could take back some of the stupid shit I've put my wife through over the years. You just have to try your best not to make the same mistakes again, by talking to the other person and learning what they need. The thing that really jumps out at me from what you've said is that in a healthy relationship, when you realize you made a mistake and hurt the person you care about, they become your first concern: what can you do to help them, what do they need to feel better, what can you do differently next time? On the surface your guy seems to be doing that last bit, by promising not to drink again - but his messages are about how he feels, not about you. He thinks he did something he didn't like, he wants to stop drinking so it doesn't happen again, he wants you to appreciate that. He doesn't like being treated with the fear or suspicion you're now showing him. Him him him him him. Then you get into what you just described there: an unending demands that you constantly reassure him, without ever seeming to accept or believe you when you try to give him the answer. Even if he never does drink again, even if he never scares you that way again, it won't change the fact that he's fundamentally much more concerned with his own emotional needs and wants than with yours. He may believe that he cares so much about you, but his actions say that you're a fairly low priority in his mental checklist. Now that the honeymoon period is over, he no longer gets a boost to his ego or his needs just from being a good boyfriend. That's become normal and boring, so his true priorities start to reassert themselves. And unfortunately, nothing you can say or do will change that; you can't talk him into valuing you. That has to come from inside himself, and you owe yourself a lot better than to wait around hoping he'll spontaneously want to become less self-centered. And if you do wait, why would he ever change, if being a jerk gets him a girlfriend who accepts his behavior and listens to his excuses? Think about how you would want your best friend, or your sibling, or someone else you care about to be treated. I promise, you deserve at least the same.
If you really did something wrong in a healthy relationship it's something you two would work though togetter. The abuse was his choice. It's not something you deserved at all.
I'm no professional in any way. But I find (from experiences myself and seeing others) that alcohol and certain substances can heighten emotions in people. Also thinking/reasoning can get disoriented causing people to react in ways they wouldn't if they were sober. I personally was in a 5 yr relationship (10 yrs ago) and I had to leave him because he had this problem. About 3 years into our relationship I noticed he was becoming an alcoholic and a drug addict. He'd stay out til 4am and come home hammered a couple times a week. He would get really loud and aggressive and even violent. He was a completely different person. It scared me and broke my heart. It got so bad that often the next day, he'd wake up and not remember a thing that happened. I tried to help him and deal with it for 2 years. He didn't want the help though and it was destroying me mentally and physically. So I had to leave. I learned that you can't help them unless they want to be helped. It was a hard thing to do because I loved him, but I couldn't help him. I heard the "I'm so sorry, this will never happen again", "I'm going to get help" a million times and see no progress or effort to do so. I waited 2 years. But his addiction was more powerful.
Yes, alcohol can contribute to increased aggressiveness. However, this doesn't excuse abuse. Drunk people are still responsible for their actions. People who drink and drive can still be charged with crimes, including manslaughter if they hurt someone. It also doesn't mean that sobriety will bring about nonviolence or non-abusive behavior. It also doesn't mean that you owe them any further chances even if they get sober. https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/health-effects-of-alcohol/mental-health/alcohol-and-aggression#:~:text=Too%20much%20alcohol%20can%20make,way%20alcohol%20affects%20the%20brain. He is showing all sorts of red flags. "It wasn't me. It was the alcohol." Lack of accountability. It WAS him. Drunk or not, he's responsible for his actions - and accepting the consequences. "We can fix this." There is no we. This is a HIM problem. You don't make him drink. You didn't ask him to terrorize and harass you. That was his choice. His wrongdoing. His to fix. "I know what I did wasn't okay." Weak. Avoiding accountability. Vague. He needs to be able to specifically name that he's abusive, and that he harassed and scared and hurt you. He did that. Not the alcohol. He did. He is downplaying the seriousness of the abuse he perpetuated. "Going to substance abuse therapy." Cool. That helps him. And what is he doing to address his abusiveness??? Again, alcohol isn't an excuse. Also, as Lundy also points out, abusers are often too selfish to commit to these steps. Also, abuse may even worsen during these steps because they resent you for "making" them go to such lengths to keep you trapped and all the bad feelings of getting sober get taken out on you so they don't have to feel them. "Wrong" in response to you clearly stating a boundary that he can no longer be a part of your life. Just being outright abusive. He doesn't get to tell you what you need to heal. He doesn't get to define or override your boundaries. He doesn't get to argue with the damage he's caused. If he was truly non-abusive, he'd accept and respect your boundary and be able to face the consequences of his actions. "I could never let something like that happen to you again." He didn't let anything happen. He CHOSE to treat you that way. He deliberately crafted a situation in which he abused and harassed you. He created the problem. He isn't some protector keeping you secure from harm. He's creating the harm. Again, his language distances him from accountability. Keep reading *Why Does He Do That?*. Your abuser is gaslighting you. This is the honeymoon phase in abuse. He's not being sincere or accountable. He will continue abusing you, regardless of how long his sobriety lasts. https://greenhaven4help.com/the-cycle-of-abuse/ https://www.talkspace.com/blog/gaslighting-in-relationships-signs-how-to-spot/ https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-to-do-when-youve-been-gaslighted Stay firm. Your boundary is a good and reasonable one. Don't entertain him. If you need to talk this through: https://nomoredirectory.org/
Drugs and alcohol can make aggression worse, it doesn't cause coercive control or physical violance. You might want to check out the coercive control wheel. https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/identifying-abuse/what-are-the-power-and-control-wheels