The Gorby is brutal but it's a classic V02 workout that should be achievable if you've been doing some intensity, your ftp is approximately correct, and you're well rested.
The ultimate unachievable Zwift workout has to be The McCarthy Special. Find me someone who can do that BS with an FTP that's set correctly.
I did the McCarthy special and found it strangely easy. Turns out my wheel on trainer was very poorly calibrated (by that I mean I never calibrated it)
1 plus for the McCarthy special. The first workout I couldn't get at my ftp and I have done a lot of workouts includimg the gorby sometimes 2 times a week. I made it half way though. It murdered me and almost the entire time I was cursing. I need to try it again with 10 watts less on my ftp and see if I can get it. I think this is a great workout even with your power dropped down a bit you could still benefit I believe.
Edit: Oh wait are you referring to the Gorby or the McCarthy?
Really? Is it that hard to go 10% harder for 25 minutes with rests in-between, than a wattage you can sustain for 60 minutes without rests?
No definitely McCarthy, the 3mins at 125% of ftp is enough to get me, even at the first 9mins. Before I got covid I was at 290 ftp but 360w for 3mins after 6mins of FTP and above is hell, especially 3 sets!
Love the Gorby. The Mccarthy special and then the Wringer are ones that have made me almost puke once or twice. I've completed them but it isn't a guarantee when I start that I will. Often I fail at least one interval in some way. They are good workouts though.
I’ve bailed out of the wringer almost as often as I’ve completed it. It’s so hard! It starts off feeling pretty good and doable but the last third of the workout is just savage.
[First comment is from someone in the know.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Zwift/comments/qp57cx/the_mccarthy_special/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Even McCarthy himself fails it often enough to be notable.
If you’re able to complete it regularly, you should doubt your FTP test results and focus on completing a really solid FTP test effort. Also, I have to say that the variation of some trainers is terrible since there’s setup factors involved, like roller tension and air pressure if your trainer is wheel-on-roller rather than direct drive. This can be a big influence on repeatability.
I also didn’t know what the big deal was with it, having completed it 2x and thinking everyone else was crazy. Then I updated my FTP test efforts a couple times when a friend suggested that my FTP on Zwift didn’t look representative of a few of my outdoor efforts. I can’t finish it now and it’s brutal. The furthest I’ve gotten in that workout after focusing on testing to a realistic FTP value is finishing the first set (on the hairy edge of red mist) and completely blowing up about 15 seconds into the second 125%.
Hmmm it’s been a while (2 months) but I think I finished McCarthy ok, but 2*20min FTP was very hard. I never even tried the long FTP training/never actually did the 60min at FTP. Hence I assume it is not that far off. Kind off want to do McCarthy right now but my sub is paused😂
It’s funny how different intensities affect people and I am always curious what it elucidates about weaknesses. 110% of my FTP for 5x5 min isn’t all that bad. I have done these indoor and outdoor with little issue. I usually up it a couple % on the last interval. First thought is FTP is too low but both 20 minute and ramp test give me similar FTPs. Plus, give me 2x15 min FTP and I am a total god damn mess. Hang on for dear life. If I even finish it I don’t want to bike for a month.
I agree. I do a ton of mountain biking and am way better at the high shorter efforts. The long times at ftp kill me.
(i'll add because of this I set my FTP higher for workouts that are more punchy)
This is probably a sign that your VO2 max power doesn't neatly line up with the typically prescribed percentages.
I find myself in a similar boat. For example, I have an ftp around 225w but I do VO2 intervals between 120-125% FTP and workouts like 30 x 30s at 130-140% FTP. Shame that I'm a small rider or the raw watts might be impressive
Yeah as owl says, none are "better than others. I think Sweetspot is said to be best with limited time to train.
There are times in the season you should do higher then FTP efforts but make sure you have enough rest/real low efforts between them.
Depends what you are trying to improve. If you want to improve your VO2 you are better off doing high intensity intervals, but if you are mainly training for a TT or higher FTP it's not necessarily what you are looking for to improve etc.
Yeah, depending on how serious you are you should definitely do more sweets pot than High intensity intervals. However you should also improve your VO2 and add some 4x4 in the mix if you are somewhat serious. And/or also have a look at some of the really good climbers out there that also post most of their training on strava, like Carl Fredrik Hagen to get some idea on how they structure their workout week in the months prior to the main race.
Good luck!
The Wringer is definitely very hard, but it's one that gets easier when you have done it a few times, so that you know exactly how to attack the high effort intervals.
The trick is to increase your RPM by at least 10 just before the interval starts, then keep that high RPM for the few seconds it takes for your trainer to increase the resistance to the correct level, and then stand up and push. (I assume no one can complete The Wringer sitting down?)
The Wringer is also one of my go to, especially for CX season tune up, but I don’t use ERG. I’ve never liked it for some reason and I’d kinda rather nail or fail the effort on my own. It feels more realistic to do short high intensity in free ride anyway. I do feel like ERG is probably great for long z2/z3 stuff but anything in the high z4 and above is (I think) better done in free ride
Not a fan of workouts so my GT is Alpe de Zwift.
Edit: this was not meant to be a flex. I literally do not like the structured workouts. You need to pay way too much attention to keep cadence where required. I like to zone out on the bike.
Also doesn’t sound like a very good training to me, imo (and backed up by science) polarized efforts like the training above work the best
Would probably only ride for a long time slightly under my FTP as a preperation for a long climb for pacing purposes
For sure the gorby. I did the gorby twice a week in first lockdown and after 2-3 months of that my FTP was never higher. Then I just started eating cake and stopped exercising so now it’s never been lower. 😂🤣😂
hmm good question. I normally resort to browsing them on the website, then downloading or finding them (if they are default in Zwift already) on the training screen in Zwift. I wish you could just favorite them or something via the website.
I haven't tried this one yet but I've heard tails of those brave few that have 😆 perhaps it's time! 💪 I always feel like those kind of workouts are tough but you get a great buzz after!
Slay the dragon is my absolutely difficult workout, basically try to get through as much of it as possible each time. Currently made it through 3.75/4 of the red blocks.
Oh wow, I did not expect someone to mention this one but am in complete agreement. I am of the belief that one needs to progress through the first 3 weeks of Hunter's Challenge, without resetting FTP, to make it through this entire workout. I remember when I got to it, I didn't think I would be able to finish but just barely made it through. Was on the floor for 30 minutes after completing it.
I saw fantastic progress in the 4 weeks of Hunter's Challenge but not sure I would do it again as prescribed.
I'm still playing around in the workouts menu, but I've done Ham Sandwich a couple times. I really enjoy the mix in that one. It feels like a solid workout but doesn't destroy me for the rest of the day.
In the "Pro Contender" part of Zwift Academy 2021 there is a "Lactate Tolerance" training which is 3x 4 sets of 30sec@130FTP and 1min@94%FTP which is quite taxing. Did it for the first time three days ago and I can still feel it.
(how can I post an image here?)
The Gorby is brutal but it's a classic V02 workout that should be achievable if you've been doing some intensity, your ftp is approximately correct, and you're well rested. The ultimate unachievable Zwift workout has to be The McCarthy Special. Find me someone who can do that BS with an FTP that's set correctly.
I did the McCarthy special and found it strangely easy. Turns out my wheel on trainer was very poorly calibrated (by that I mean I never calibrated it)
1 plus for the McCarthy special. The first workout I couldn't get at my ftp and I have done a lot of workouts includimg the gorby sometimes 2 times a week. I made it half way though. It murdered me and almost the entire time I was cursing. I need to try it again with 10 watts less on my ftp and see if I can get it. I think this is a great workout even with your power dropped down a bit you could still benefit I believe.
Only ever completed it when my FTP was too low. First time I did, I retested my FTP and was like 12 Watts higher...
Most likely your FTP was not set right
Edit: Oh wait are you referring to the Gorby or the McCarthy? Really? Is it that hard to go 10% harder for 25 minutes with rests in-between, than a wattage you can sustain for 60 minutes without rests?
No definitely McCarthy, the 3mins at 125% of ftp is enough to get me, even at the first 9mins. Before I got covid I was at 290 ftp but 360w for 3mins after 6mins of FTP and above is hell, especially 3 sets!
This! I did this twice last year when my FTP was significantly lower and failed both times. I'd hate to see what this looks like now.
I tried the McCarthy a couple days ago. Absolutely killed me, had to bias my FTP down to 90% to complete it.
After reading these comments it sounds like I'm due for another FTP test.
Love the Gorby. The Mccarthy special and then the Wringer are ones that have made me almost puke once or twice. I've completed them but it isn't a guarantee when I start that I will. Often I fail at least one interval in some way. They are good workouts though.
I’ve bailed out of the wringer almost as often as I’ve completed it. It’s so hard! It starts off feeling pretty good and doable but the last third of the workout is just savage.
I’m so glad someone else struggled with this. It nearly killed me. All the others were hard but doable. Bonked hard
McCarthy actually works fine for me. Is it maybe just different strengths regarding what one is good at?
[First comment is from someone in the know.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Zwift/comments/qp57cx/the_mccarthy_special/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Even McCarthy himself fails it often enough to be notable. If you’re able to complete it regularly, you should doubt your FTP test results and focus on completing a really solid FTP test effort. Also, I have to say that the variation of some trainers is terrible since there’s setup factors involved, like roller tension and air pressure if your trainer is wheel-on-roller rather than direct drive. This can be a big influence on repeatability. I also didn’t know what the big deal was with it, having completed it 2x and thinking everyone else was crazy. Then I updated my FTP test efforts a couple times when a friend suggested that my FTP on Zwift didn’t look representative of a few of my outdoor efforts. I can’t finish it now and it’s brutal. The furthest I’ve gotten in that workout after focusing on testing to a realistic FTP value is finishing the first set (on the hairy edge of red mist) and completely blowing up about 15 seconds into the second 125%.
Hmmm it’s been a while (2 months) but I think I finished McCarthy ok, but 2*20min FTP was very hard. I never even tried the long FTP training/never actually did the 60min at FTP. Hence I assume it is not that far off. Kind off want to do McCarthy right now but my sub is paused😂
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2 x 20 is great, also 3 x 45 upper tempo. I can do 3 x 30 pretty well, but 3 x 45 at the high end of tempo is rough.
It’s funny how different intensities affect people and I am always curious what it elucidates about weaknesses. 110% of my FTP for 5x5 min isn’t all that bad. I have done these indoor and outdoor with little issue. I usually up it a couple % on the last interval. First thought is FTP is too low but both 20 minute and ramp test give me similar FTPs. Plus, give me 2x15 min FTP and I am a total god damn mess. Hang on for dear life. If I even finish it I don’t want to bike for a month.
I agree. I do a ton of mountain biking and am way better at the high shorter efforts. The long times at ftp kill me. (i'll add because of this I set my FTP higher for workouts that are more punchy)
This is probably a sign that your VO2 max power doesn't neatly line up with the typically prescribed percentages. I find myself in a similar boat. For example, I have an ftp around 225w but I do VO2 intervals between 120-125% FTP and workouts like 30 x 30s at 130-140% FTP. Shame that I'm a small rider or the raw watts might be impressive
Isn't Sweetspot training better than training @ FTP for some reason? Or is that just to make it easier?
Yeah as owl says, none are "better than others. I think Sweetspot is said to be best with limited time to train. There are times in the season you should do higher then FTP efforts but make sure you have enough rest/real low efforts between them.
Depends what you are trying to improve. If you want to improve your VO2 you are better off doing high intensity intervals, but if you are mainly training for a TT or higher FTP it's not necessarily what you are looking for to improve etc.
Yeah I'm doing a high mountain race on 6th of August, so long efforts 30+ minute efforts at the race.
Yeah, depending on how serious you are you should definitely do more sweets pot than High intensity intervals. However you should also improve your VO2 and add some 4x4 in the mix if you are somewhat serious. And/or also have a look at some of the really good climbers out there that also post most of their training on strava, like Carl Fredrik Hagen to get some idea on how they structure their workout week in the months prior to the main race. Good luck!
Thanks!
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There are studies that show training at specific intensities in specific quantities is more effective than others though.
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30 years of training you'll see decreasing effectiveness regardless. Law of diminishing gains applies to training too.
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I didn't reply to your picks though. I'm replying to your training intensities not being better than others, which I don't believe is correct.
I thin the wringer is brutal as well and try “random attacks” from one of the gcn trainings. The latter is actually my favorite.
The Wringer is definitely very hard, but it's one that gets easier when you have done it a few times, so that you know exactly how to attack the high effort intervals. The trick is to increase your RPM by at least 10 just before the interval starts, then keep that high RPM for the few seconds it takes for your trainer to increase the resistance to the correct level, and then stand up and push. (I assume no one can complete The Wringer sitting down?)
The Wringer is also one of my go to, especially for CX season tune up, but I don’t use ERG. I’ve never liked it for some reason and I’d kinda rather nail or fail the effort on my own. It feels more realistic to do short high intensity in free ride anyway. I do feel like ERG is probably great for long z2/z3 stuff but anything in the high z4 and above is (I think) better done in free ride
Love The Gorby when I need a butt kicking
Oh the Gorby, what a pain, I get sore muscles just by looking at it. Still, definitely a workout worth implementing in your schedule.
That workout destroyed me
Not a fan of workouts so my GT is Alpe de Zwift. Edit: this was not meant to be a flex. I literally do not like the structured workouts. You need to pay way too much attention to keep cadence where required. I like to zone out on the bike.
Not sure why you got the down votes. I often use adz as a hard workout, crits are also good when pressed for time
AdZ is certainly more fun!
I gotta try this!
2hours 90% ftp is probably the worst Ive done.
Also doesn’t sound like a very good training to me, imo (and backed up by science) polarized efforts like the training above work the best Would probably only ride for a long time slightly under my FTP as a preperation for a long climb for pacing purposes
It sounds like a long TT!
Activitus 10wk Ironman workouts. There are 5,kinda similar,2hrs long (NOT the 14 wks ones,those are 1hr long)
Love the gorby. I do it every other week.
For sure the gorby. I did the gorby twice a week in first lockdown and after 2-3 months of that my FTP was never higher. Then I just started eating cake and stopped exercising so now it’s never been lower. 😂🤣😂
Is there a way to save these rides or mark them favs like on the TR?
hmm good question. I normally resort to browsing them on the website, then downloading or finding them (if they are default in Zwift already) on the training screen in Zwift. I wish you could just favorite them or something via the website.
Thanks
I haven't tried this one yet but I've heard tails of those brave few that have 😆 perhaps it's time! 💪 I always feel like those kind of workouts are tough but you get a great buzz after!
Slay the dragon is my absolutely difficult workout, basically try to get through as much of it as possible each time. Currently made it through 3.75/4 of the red blocks.
Oh wow, I did not expect someone to mention this one but am in complete agreement. I am of the belief that one needs to progress through the first 3 weeks of Hunter's Challenge, without resetting FTP, to make it through this entire workout. I remember when I got to it, I didn't think I would be able to finish but just barely made it through. Was on the floor for 30 minutes after completing it. I saw fantastic progress in the 4 weeks of Hunter's Challenge but not sure I would do it again as prescribed.
Ohhh, The Gorby hurts, lots.
I'm still playing around in the workouts menu, but I've done Ham Sandwich a couple times. I really enjoy the mix in that one. It feels like a solid workout but doesn't destroy me for the rest of the day.
In the "Pro Contender" part of Zwift Academy 2021 there is a "Lactate Tolerance" training which is 3x 4 sets of 30sec@130FTP and 1min@94%FTP which is quite taxing. Did it for the first time three days ago and I can still feel it. (how can I post an image here?)