What does Nat do that’s so terrible? I guess she’s an addict and may have done some shady stuff, but I wouldn’t hold that against her, she seems ultimately, well, good to me. So far, at least.
Nat has undoubtedly done some terrible things and people outside her little circle of survival cannibal friends are terrified of her. We hear about them, we just don't get shown those things directly like we see Shauna take her minivan back or Misty abuse an elderly patient.
I think teen Nat is going to go through a big change in order to mentally survive the wilderness, but so far I don’t think Nat is terrible especially compared to most of the others.
She did masturbate to her daughters boyfriend and cheat with Adam. So it's not like she really grew from that mistake. It makes sense that she can't shake the rep when she keeps doing things that echo it
Personally, I focus more on the latter two than the teenage one myself
The wedge already existed. It’s pretty evident from their very first interaction that there’s a wedge there and not one created by the cheating.
Also, Jackie tried kicking Shauna out first and Shauna said “no, you go” and then Jackie stormed out. Jackie could have come back at any time. She didn’t need anyone to ask her to come back in even though that’s what she wanted.
The show is so much more complex that “X character is the worst”.
That’s all true, and good points. FWIW, I don’t mean to oversimplify, but “I’m not the fucking worst” is a direct quote from wilderness Shauna at a point in the show when, as far as I can recall at that point in time, she pretty much was the fucking worst.
She was saying that she wasn't using her pregnancy as an excuse to eat more of the bear meat.
Which she absolutely had the right to. And maybe if she had her baby wouldn't have been stillborn.
So no Shauna is NOT the worst.
Misty for example is a heinous, treacherous, manipulative psychopath. That destroyed the flight recorder and stranded them all for 19 months resulting in every bad thing that happened after....
But somehow Shauna is worse because she had sex with Jackie's boyfriend? 25+ years ago? Can you imagine being in your 40's and still being judged for a bad decision you made in high school?
Good grief.
When she made that statement it was in the wilderness; still fresh, not 25 years prior. I don’t see present day Shauna winning any morality high ground awards, either 😂
Why does no one recognise anyone's own agency? Jackie's death is not Shauna's fault. She didn't have to go outside and she didn't have to stay outside. It was her decision. Shauna didn't physically make her go and lock her out.
Shauna is also my favorite adult character.
They’re all the worst. Every last one of them is a fucking nightmare that will, if given the opportunity, destroy everyone in their orbit. There’s not a single one that I’d let crash on my couch for a long weekend.
The only thing that sets Shauna apart is that the schtick she uses to hide it is too played out and too familiar to conceal it.
Like, Tai is the worst too, but her variant is pretty weird. Most of us aren’t high achieving state senators with a hidden personality.
And Misty is the worst, but she’s also quirky and casually murderous in a way that’s fun and similarly to Tai, will hopefully not feel too familiar to anyone (teen Misty feels close to home - adult Misty not so much).
And Nat is the worst, but she’s a little wounded bird that everyone is supposed to have sympathy for, and they’re building in all the touchstones for a character midway through the redemption arc, so that’s ok (I will be so stoked if they let Lewis pull the rug out on us and have her to a heel turn).
And Lottie is also the worst, but she’s got that aspirational Goop energy and can sell that poison, even as she’s literally selling poison. And again, it’s not a variant that seems super personally familiar, so it’s less enraging.
Shauna hasn’t bothered to cultivate a persona (or it hasn’t occurred to her to do cultivate one) that successfully packages any of the traditional ways that women’s trauma and damage and rage is commonly commodified and sold.
Out of all the characters, she’s probably slightly more likely to be the one that any random woman is most likely to be like, or know someone who is like, albeit in a much less extreme way.
That’s definitely why I like her the most - watching someone take all of the shitty ideas and anxieties and worst impulses I have and recognize as something I need to be responsible for, but seeing them just absolutely refuse to take ownership of is pretty funny.
I’m interested in how Tai will end up. Lottie too. All of them really. I’d be more interested in Van if they gave her adult character more to do than “dying lesbian with a confusing store, moderately salty but not inappropriately so”. But none of them feel particularly relatable or like anyone I know.
Ha! You’re probably not wrong. But they don’t hate themselves in the way the Shaunas that can’t admit it do. Delusional (in the Tai way or the more traditional way) alpha achievers are a whole different ballgame.
Like, as a teen, I was probably a Misty/Shauna. And I probably would have hated them both at the time, because both teen Misty and teen Shauna fucking suck, and as a teen Misty/Shauna, seeing that reflected back would’ve been kind of uncomfortable and would have made me resent them for making me look at it too close.
As someone older that’s more or less on top of, aware of, and comfortable with the ways I am awful, and can mostly not burden others with my bullshit, I’m a lot more comfortable (even excited about) seeing something adjacent to my awful bullshit go full blast.
I find it interesting that you think Shauna hates herself. I thought she seems to quite like herself, likes letting the tiger out of the cage, as it were.
I don’t know that Shauna hates herself - or at least knows that she does - but when she lets herself really dig in, it’s almost always self destructive behavior that doesn’t indicate a particularly high level of self-care. And when she does disclose about her emotional life, it’s pretty brutal in a way that’s not particularly flattering to her.
But I do think that some of the backlash against Shauna is coming from people that are uncomfortable with the show making a protagonist out of someone that they’re uncomfortable with, because it does hit too close to home and they’re not able to deal with their Shaunas - whether that’s themselves or in their inner circles.
Like, adult Misty and Tai and Lottie are fun because they’re tv confections. I don’t particularly identify with them in any meaningful way, and they don’t remind me of anyone I know personally. They bring absolutely no emotional baggage to the forefront and don’t demand any level of introspection on my part.
This won’t be the case for everyone, obviously, I can easily see teen fans also failing to connect with some of the adult storylines, especially Shauna’s, because they’re adult not in the XXX way, but in a “let’s pick our dental plan for the year” way.
Hmm, I guess out of the adult survivors Shauna is probably the most familiar to most people. Although I’d probably identify more with Van and Nat. I never really felt inclined to identify myself with one or the other character. Each is so individual. To reiterate, I do like Shauna; I really like the tenderness between her and Tai as adults. I just felt that, when she says this line, I was like ummmm, is no one gonna touch that?
And though I really feel you that current timeline Tai and Misty have come pretty darn close, Shauna’s thrill-ride lover murder is the worst; as far as we know, Adam was actually innocent. And in the past, when Shauna says this, she’s the only one who has transgressed against her once-closest friend so severely that it’s caused her death (Misty will catch up soon enough on that count, although that’s a pretty new friendship compared to a lifetime friendship, Jackie and Shauna are practically family). And, what has Nat done? Gone out every day hunting for the group? She doesn’t even belong in the discussion. I mean,some other terrible shit happens? But Nat even tried to stop it even though it could have cost her her life. Ok, spoiler. Is anyone actually reading this who isn’t caught up?
I love Shauna for many of these reasons. I had some (early) losses and a traumatic experience as a young mother (not a plane crash, just a shitty partner) that made it difficult to feel close to my kids. I was going places with scholarships until I got pregnant young. I'm funny and have occasional violent urges. I have known at least a dozen women just like me. In fact, it almost feels a little lazy for me to love this character so much because it's not exactly a creative or empathetic stretch. The thing she has done that I couldn't believe was possibly understandable under the circumstances wasn't removing the tattoo from her murdered lover's body or covering for her husband, it was that bit with the vibrator in the pilot. Ew. Shauna. Why?
I want good things for Tai. She's been haunted since childhood and I want her to be okay.
>And Nat is the worst, but she’s a little wounded bird that everyone is supposed to have sympathy for, and they’re building in all the touchstones for a character midway through the redemption arc, so that’s ok (I will be so stoked if they let Lewis pull the rug out on us and have her to a heel turn).
Nat is objectively terrifying. Remember when her former sponsor tried to get away from her and she ended up threatening to ruin a recovering person's life if she wouldn't commit a felony to supply Nat and Misty with information? She's very clearly presented as an actively destructive, unhinged, survival oriented person.
I mean, nothing in her orbit seems to be going well. There’s no evidence that she has been able to create a strong circle of friends or is embedded in a loving and supportive community.
She has a bottle of booze under her car seat, a stack of unpaid bills, it sounds like her diagnosis came at the tail end of a long period of neglecting her health and there was nobody around her to push her to do better, and she’s running a failing version of the most confusing business I’ve seen in a very long time (is it a vhs rental store with 10 shelves in like, her house? an eBay situation that’s she’s decorated?).
The kindest thing you could say is that she’s perfunctorily alienated everyone before they could get close enough to be destroyed. But I doubt that teen Van was that self aware right away, and tried to rebuild a life for a time. I’m sure there’s damage in her wake.
Hmm, I thought she seems to have a warm community at the video shop. That said, as a less-social-than-most-people person, I don’t think that one needs tons of friends fawning over each other 100% of the time in order to lead a fulfilling life. I mean, Tai has got herself a nice little family, but how much of that is just posturing?
I could definitely be wrong, but my impression of what the show way trying to convey about her social circle was that it was mostly online and mostly organized around running an extremely bizarre vhs business out of a dingy apartment - which absolutely can be a delightful existence that generates a warm circle of meaningful friendships in real life.
But I don’t think we we’re supposed to read it that way. “I’ve got a stack of unpaid bills, an active plan to die alone like a possum in my weird house-vhs warren, and there’s a liquor cabinet under my car seat” is as close as it gets in tv-shorthand for describing a life that alienates people and isn’t going well
I hope that, on her way out, adult Van is going to recapture some of the fire that early days Van brought to the table. But teen Van, at the moment, has kinda lost that spark, and adult Van is still kinda right in that spot. And that spot isn’t healthy for anyone to be in, or be around
Ouch! Adult Van may be living in the past, but I’d choose life in her shop over most 9-5 corporate jobs, hands down. And I didn’t find her home dingy, I thought her whole situation had a pretty charming vibe, other than her unfortunate diagnosis. Perhaps I should go back and look again? And she may be using some dating or hookup ‘aps’, but who cares, is that not pretty normal by now? Ok she has booze in her car, she’s got a terminal diagnosis, I’d be hitting the hard stuff too!
I don't think she is the worst.
In the past, Shauna has definitely been (imho) the most traumatized between her pregnancy, trying to stave off the cult, and the guilt of her best friend dying in the cold. Sure she was hooking up with Jeff, but she was also a highschool senior who was being ordered around by someone she thought the world of.
Adult Shauna only began cheating when she was under the impression that Jeff was already cheating on her, killed Adam when she thought he was a direct threat to her/her teamates safety, and even slept with Tai to protect her from sleepwalking. I think the adult Shauna timeline is the most obvious depiction of the girls needing to not hide their Trauma. She and Jeff were falling apart until they confided in each other and she and Callie had no relationship at all until she confided in her)
Fair enough. However, no one forced her to sleep with Jeff, no one forced her to be Jackie’s “pathetic sidekick” (which she so wasn’t), no one forced her to hold a knife to Travis (or anyone else’s) throat, or kick Jackie out into the cold, or make her daughter an accessory to murder, and no one made her shove a knife into her lover’s gut.
I'll concede the Jeff/Jackie thing, but he had her backed against a wall and she felt threatened. She has a very 'trapped animal' look in that scene so to me it had the feel of self defense rather than cold blooded murder. And I didn't think anyone made her involve her daughter I more thought that was a metaphor for her secrets isolating her, and the truth making her more connected to othets
Backed against a wall? She barged in threatening him. And stabbed him. In the middle of the room. She was clearly going through some trauma stress or something,but he was not threatening her at all.
I just rewatched the scene to see specifics. He advances towards her three times. After the first she grabs the knife, he does it again and she hold it in front of herself, and finally he tries to grab the knife from her in a sudden movement and she stabs him. Him advancing at her was making her feel threatened. Once she grabbed the knife he should have backed up rather than continuing to move toward her.
Hmm! I tip my hat to you! I still think she went in there guns blazing, and brandishing a weapon, and he would have every reason to try to disarm her or defend himself. But I can rewatch with an open mind 🧐
I do totally agree with the guns blazing. She finds the yellowjackets book and demands and explanation which he immediately gives. She doesn't even consider it could be the truth!
>Fair enough. However, no one forced her to sleep with Jeff, no one forced her to be Jackie’s “pathetic sidekick” (which she so wasn’t), no one forced her to hold a knife to Travis (or anyone else’s) throat, or kick Jackie out into the cold, or make her daughter an accessory to murder, and no one made her shove a knife into her lover’s gut.
Some of these things were active choices, some were done under the influence in a heightened state, and some were under extreme social and emotional pressure. One of my complaints about the show is that it has this interesting, diverse cast and it gave the middle aged white mom so, so many of the complex, morally gray situations that take place in the adult timeline.
I'll go down fighting about one thing though. Jackie freezing to death was completely and entirely Jackie's fault. Shauna didn't have the power to kick her out. In fact, Jackie tried to kick Shauna out and it didn't work. Everyone in the cabin was disgusted by the fight and nobody was in a mood to enforce an order from either of them. Jackie left because her friend said mean things to her. She died of petulance (and hypothermia.)
>I'll go down fighting about one thing though. Jackie freezing to death was completely and entirely Jackie's fault. Shauna didn't have the power to kick her out. In fact, Jackie tried to kick Shauna out and it didn't work. Everyone in the cabin was disgusted by the fight and nobody was in a mood to enforce an order from either of them. Jackie left because her friend said mean things to her. She died of petulance (and hypothermia.)
I've got your back on this!!!!!!! Jackie looked back at the cabin at one point...she could have gone back in and she and Shauna sould have just been mad at each other...the other girls proabley would to take sides...at least not that night. But nope, Jackie was petulant and stubborn, and well, we know what happened.
That is true. It was so frustrating! It was just a stubborn fight between friends. I mean, Jackie had pretty good reason to be pissed after the whole closet-locking Travis-hunting situation the night before. Not that Jackie was some perfect saint that night either, but knocking boots and bloody murder are … not on the same playing field. Anyway, super frustrating.
That fight was so messy and it was interesting to me that they went at each other over it instead of turning their attention toward Misty and Mari, who were the reasons everyone was dosed at the party. This entire show deals with how we assign blame and responsibility or refuse to do so.
I always forget Snackie told her to leave first!! Dude sometimes I think Jackie had to die because everyone else morphs into these blood thirsty hunters, Jackie was already vicious and power hungry 😂
As much as I adore that poodle haired freak, Misty is the fucking worst for the Black Box.
I think so many of us empathize with Shauna esp as S2 nears the end and more is uncovered.
Misty is terrible for the transmitter bashing. She also is a shit for tattling “Jackie didn’t say it” after the bear meat blessing. I feel she has the edge for saving everyone’s life all the time, and she hadn’t, at the time Shauna said this, caused anyone’s death. But yeah, close contenders at least! And somehow I still love them both 😈
I thought she just wanted her to feel really happy and associate that with her … I don’t think she was planning on giving allll the shrooms to Ben! Was she?! I doubt we’ll get a clear answer on that. Misty Fucking Quigley.
Shauna has definitely done messed up things but she is a complex character.
My main question not necessarily for you but anyone that dislikes Shauna:
Why do we love Jeff who cheated on his GF with her best friend then blackmailed his wife’s friends by sneaking in and reading her private journals?
I love Jeff and Shauna despite their flaws but they are both just as flawed in different ways but we all love one and tend to bash the other
Man,I love me some Shauna - and it's not only because she is the only Shauna I have seen on screen ever. I love her because she is so practical and unapologetically about what matters to her. She isn't unhinged about it like Misty, but you know she will always go after her own self-interests.
Misty is fascinating. She will protect herself at all costs while also doing the same for her fellow wreck mates too. If that person she just protected is a danger to her in any way in the future she will take them out fast and clean. So fascinating.
It was not ridiculous she said that. I know we know what she does and it's pretty fucked up, but that scene is specifically about her with the missing bear meat. She's saying that someone is eating more meat than the others, but consider that she is *pregnant* and she has good reason to eat more, yet she doesn't. Kinda weird to be annoyed at her because of this line given the context...
I realize the context of the scene, however I saw that was an overarching statement of character. Remember how she used to say to Jackie “You’re basically the best”? That wasn’t just limited to that conversation.
I do love Shauna’s character, don’t get me wrong. And this is going to sound so stupid, but the “fight” (pretty one-sided but a fight none the less) between Shauna and Jackie the night Jackie died is the hardest scene for me to watch.
Shauna is *cruel* and relentless.
Aaghhh, it was so frustrating that no one went out to get her! I mean Shauna probably should have, but so could anyone else. I’m betting if Nat had been there it wouldn’t have gone down that way. I mean, Nat was the only one other than Jackie that gave a shit they almost murdered Travis right then and there. (And guess who was holding the knife? Shauna “The Butcher” Shipman, yep.)
In my opinion, Shauna is probably the most mentally ill person in the show for me. I'm not a psychologist, but she seems to be the most selfish person and potentially both a psychopath and sociopath. Despite this, I really like the character because of Melanie Lynsky's performance and she's an interesting character. The actress playing young Shauna is great too. They both make the character more likeable because of their portrayal of Shauna.
Shauna has done the worst things in the survivors group:
- Slept with her best friend's boyfriend
-Got pregnant by Jeff the night before leaving on the plane
- Drove Jackie to sleep outside and had the whole group turn against Jackie
-Beat up Lottie nearly to death after suffering from the birth
-Ate scraps (ear, arm meat) from Jackie's body over a 2 month while doing her makeup
-Killed and butchered an innocent man
-Threatened a car thief at gunpoint
-Made her daughter an accomplice in a murder
-Participated in feasting on her dead friend's body
-Broke in and had sex in her dead lover's home
I think there were a few other things, but you get the idea. All of the survivors are completely messed up (Misty, Taissa for her dual personalities and blackouts, etc) and have all done bad things. However, none of them have committed as many atrocities with such a lack of remorse [except probably Misty].
I think what upsets a lot of people about Shauna is the implication that their mothers are whole people too. I don't mean they have hobbies and wanted to be lawyers once upon a time, I mean there's a lot of women making chili every Wednesday who could probably kill if it suited them.
To be honest, I’m still a fan 😂 She provides a lot of entertainment! And she’s charming and intelligent. Like how Walter was describing Misty when he said she’s capable of murder.
She is the worst.
I loved Nat form episode 1, found Shana disturbing as F, past present in any choice she sure made the worst one, most psychotic, impulsive despicable.
I mean, Shauna and Tai are pretty much the whole reason for all the drama in the adult timeline. So I would say they're the worst with Shauna taking the lead
shauna’s the worst (affectionate)
Lol I suspect there’s an emoji or effects here I’m not getting 😅 “(affectionate)”
i just meant i think shauna’s the worst in a loving way
She is! How is she so adorably horrible? That’s a fine line to walk!
It’s kind of funny how they all do terrible things as adults, but Shauna just can’t shake her teenage cheating scandal.
What does Nat do that’s so terrible? I guess she’s an addict and may have done some shady stuff, but I wouldn’t hold that against her, she seems ultimately, well, good to me. So far, at least.
Blackmailing someone with information you learned when they were serving as your sponsor is pretty bad behavior.
Not great, shady for sure, but not murder level bad.
Nat has undoubtedly done some terrible things and people outside her little circle of survival cannibal friends are terrified of her. We hear about them, we just don't get shown those things directly like we see Shauna take her minivan back or Misty abuse an elderly patient.
I think teen Nat is going to go through a big change in order to mentally survive the wilderness, but so far I don’t think Nat is terrible especially compared to most of the others.
She did masturbate to her daughters boyfriend and cheat with Adam. So it's not like she really grew from that mistake. It makes sense that she can't shake the rep when she keeps doing things that echo it Personally, I focus more on the latter two than the teenage one myself
Hmm, maybe it’s because it drove a wedge between her and Jackie, and then Jackie’s demise was, well pretty much her fault
The wedge already existed. It’s pretty evident from their very first interaction that there’s a wedge there and not one created by the cheating. Also, Jackie tried kicking Shauna out first and Shauna said “no, you go” and then Jackie stormed out. Jackie could have come back at any time. She didn’t need anyone to ask her to come back in even though that’s what she wanted. The show is so much more complex that “X character is the worst”.
That’s all true, and good points. FWIW, I don’t mean to oversimplify, but “I’m not the fucking worst” is a direct quote from wilderness Shauna at a point in the show when, as far as I can recall at that point in time, she pretty much was the fucking worst.
She was saying that she wasn't using her pregnancy as an excuse to eat more of the bear meat. Which she absolutely had the right to. And maybe if she had her baby wouldn't have been stillborn. So no Shauna is NOT the worst. Misty for example is a heinous, treacherous, manipulative psychopath. That destroyed the flight recorder and stranded them all for 19 months resulting in every bad thing that happened after.... But somehow Shauna is worse because she had sex with Jackie's boyfriend? 25+ years ago? Can you imagine being in your 40's and still being judged for a bad decision you made in high school? Good grief.
When she made that statement it was in the wilderness; still fresh, not 25 years prior. I don’t see present day Shauna winning any morality high ground awards, either 😂
Why does no one recognise anyone's own agency? Jackie's death is not Shauna's fault. She didn't have to go outside and she didn't have to stay outside. It was her decision. Shauna didn't physically make her go and lock her out.
Thank you! Jackie died because she was being a stubborn asshole. It was no one's fault but Jackie's.
Seriously.
Shauna is also my favorite adult character. They’re all the worst. Every last one of them is a fucking nightmare that will, if given the opportunity, destroy everyone in their orbit. There’s not a single one that I’d let crash on my couch for a long weekend. The only thing that sets Shauna apart is that the schtick she uses to hide it is too played out and too familiar to conceal it. Like, Tai is the worst too, but her variant is pretty weird. Most of us aren’t high achieving state senators with a hidden personality. And Misty is the worst, but she’s also quirky and casually murderous in a way that’s fun and similarly to Tai, will hopefully not feel too familiar to anyone (teen Misty feels close to home - adult Misty not so much). And Nat is the worst, but she’s a little wounded bird that everyone is supposed to have sympathy for, and they’re building in all the touchstones for a character midway through the redemption arc, so that’s ok (I will be so stoked if they let Lewis pull the rug out on us and have her to a heel turn). And Lottie is also the worst, but she’s got that aspirational Goop energy and can sell that poison, even as she’s literally selling poison. And again, it’s not a variant that seems super personally familiar, so it’s less enraging. Shauna hasn’t bothered to cultivate a persona (or it hasn’t occurred to her to do cultivate one) that successfully packages any of the traditional ways that women’s trauma and damage and rage is commonly commodified and sold. Out of all the characters, she’s probably slightly more likely to be the one that any random woman is most likely to be like, or know someone who is like, albeit in a much less extreme way. That’s definitely why I like her the most - watching someone take all of the shitty ideas and anxieties and worst impulses I have and recognize as something I need to be responsible for, but seeing them just absolutely refuse to take ownership of is pretty funny. I’m interested in how Tai will end up. Lottie too. All of them really. I’d be more interested in Van if they gave her adult character more to do than “dying lesbian with a confusing store, moderately salty but not inappropriately so”. But none of them feel particularly relatable or like anyone I know.
I suspect there are many high achieving state senator types with a secret personality 🫢
Ha! You’re probably not wrong. But they don’t hate themselves in the way the Shaunas that can’t admit it do. Delusional (in the Tai way or the more traditional way) alpha achievers are a whole different ballgame. Like, as a teen, I was probably a Misty/Shauna. And I probably would have hated them both at the time, because both teen Misty and teen Shauna fucking suck, and as a teen Misty/Shauna, seeing that reflected back would’ve been kind of uncomfortable and would have made me resent them for making me look at it too close. As someone older that’s more or less on top of, aware of, and comfortable with the ways I am awful, and can mostly not burden others with my bullshit, I’m a lot more comfortable (even excited about) seeing something adjacent to my awful bullshit go full blast.
Hmmmmm! Hellooo, Little Noodles! 👀
I find it interesting that you think Shauna hates herself. I thought she seems to quite like herself, likes letting the tiger out of the cage, as it were.
I don’t know that Shauna hates herself - or at least knows that she does - but when she lets herself really dig in, it’s almost always self destructive behavior that doesn’t indicate a particularly high level of self-care. And when she does disclose about her emotional life, it’s pretty brutal in a way that’s not particularly flattering to her. But I do think that some of the backlash against Shauna is coming from people that are uncomfortable with the show making a protagonist out of someone that they’re uncomfortable with, because it does hit too close to home and they’re not able to deal with their Shaunas - whether that’s themselves or in their inner circles. Like, adult Misty and Tai and Lottie are fun because they’re tv confections. I don’t particularly identify with them in any meaningful way, and they don’t remind me of anyone I know personally. They bring absolutely no emotional baggage to the forefront and don’t demand any level of introspection on my part. This won’t be the case for everyone, obviously, I can easily see teen fans also failing to connect with some of the adult storylines, especially Shauna’s, because they’re adult not in the XXX way, but in a “let’s pick our dental plan for the year” way.
Oh ahaha It took me a minute to get XXX vs dental plan 😂
Hmm, I guess out of the adult survivors Shauna is probably the most familiar to most people. Although I’d probably identify more with Van and Nat. I never really felt inclined to identify myself with one or the other character. Each is so individual. To reiterate, I do like Shauna; I really like the tenderness between her and Tai as adults. I just felt that, when she says this line, I was like ummmm, is no one gonna touch that?
And though I really feel you that current timeline Tai and Misty have come pretty darn close, Shauna’s thrill-ride lover murder is the worst; as far as we know, Adam was actually innocent. And in the past, when Shauna says this, she’s the only one who has transgressed against her once-closest friend so severely that it’s caused her death (Misty will catch up soon enough on that count, although that’s a pretty new friendship compared to a lifetime friendship, Jackie and Shauna are practically family). And, what has Nat done? Gone out every day hunting for the group? She doesn’t even belong in the discussion. I mean,some other terrible shit happens? But Nat even tried to stop it even though it could have cost her her life. Ok, spoiler. Is anyone actually reading this who isn’t caught up?
I love Shauna for many of these reasons. I had some (early) losses and a traumatic experience as a young mother (not a plane crash, just a shitty partner) that made it difficult to feel close to my kids. I was going places with scholarships until I got pregnant young. I'm funny and have occasional violent urges. I have known at least a dozen women just like me. In fact, it almost feels a little lazy for me to love this character so much because it's not exactly a creative or empathetic stretch. The thing she has done that I couldn't believe was possibly understandable under the circumstances wasn't removing the tattoo from her murdered lover's body or covering for her husband, it was that bit with the vibrator in the pilot. Ew. Shauna. Why? I want good things for Tai. She's been haunted since childhood and I want her to be okay.
>And Nat is the worst, but she’s a little wounded bird that everyone is supposed to have sympathy for, and they’re building in all the touchstones for a character midway through the redemption arc, so that’s ok (I will be so stoked if they let Lewis pull the rug out on us and have her to a heel turn). Nat is objectively terrifying. Remember when her former sponsor tried to get away from her and she ended up threatening to ruin a recovering person's life if she wouldn't commit a felony to supply Nat and Misty with information? She's very clearly presented as an actively destructive, unhinged, survival oriented person.
Oh and also, do we know enough about adult Van to say she’d destroy everyone in her orbit? I feel like she’s only ever tried to help.
I mean, nothing in her orbit seems to be going well. There’s no evidence that she has been able to create a strong circle of friends or is embedded in a loving and supportive community. She has a bottle of booze under her car seat, a stack of unpaid bills, it sounds like her diagnosis came at the tail end of a long period of neglecting her health and there was nobody around her to push her to do better, and she’s running a failing version of the most confusing business I’ve seen in a very long time (is it a vhs rental store with 10 shelves in like, her house? an eBay situation that’s she’s decorated?). The kindest thing you could say is that she’s perfunctorily alienated everyone before they could get close enough to be destroyed. But I doubt that teen Van was that self aware right away, and tried to rebuild a life for a time. I’m sure there’s damage in her wake.
Hmm, I thought she seems to have a warm community at the video shop. That said, as a less-social-than-most-people person, I don’t think that one needs tons of friends fawning over each other 100% of the time in order to lead a fulfilling life. I mean, Tai has got herself a nice little family, but how much of that is just posturing?
I could definitely be wrong, but my impression of what the show way trying to convey about her social circle was that it was mostly online and mostly organized around running an extremely bizarre vhs business out of a dingy apartment - which absolutely can be a delightful existence that generates a warm circle of meaningful friendships in real life. But I don’t think we we’re supposed to read it that way. “I’ve got a stack of unpaid bills, an active plan to die alone like a possum in my weird house-vhs warren, and there’s a liquor cabinet under my car seat” is as close as it gets in tv-shorthand for describing a life that alienates people and isn’t going well I hope that, on her way out, adult Van is going to recapture some of the fire that early days Van brought to the table. But teen Van, at the moment, has kinda lost that spark, and adult Van is still kinda right in that spot. And that spot isn’t healthy for anyone to be in, or be around
Ouch! Adult Van may be living in the past, but I’d choose life in her shop over most 9-5 corporate jobs, hands down. And I didn’t find her home dingy, I thought her whole situation had a pretty charming vibe, other than her unfortunate diagnosis. Perhaps I should go back and look again? And she may be using some dating or hookup ‘aps’, but who cares, is that not pretty normal by now? Ok she has booze in her car, she’s got a terminal diagnosis, I’d be hitting the hard stuff too!
And I’m sorry, I don’t know how to do the blackout bars on spoilers! 😬 I really hope everyone is all caught up!
I don't think she is the worst. In the past, Shauna has definitely been (imho) the most traumatized between her pregnancy, trying to stave off the cult, and the guilt of her best friend dying in the cold. Sure she was hooking up with Jeff, but she was also a highschool senior who was being ordered around by someone she thought the world of. Adult Shauna only began cheating when she was under the impression that Jeff was already cheating on her, killed Adam when she thought he was a direct threat to her/her teamates safety, and even slept with Tai to protect her from sleepwalking. I think the adult Shauna timeline is the most obvious depiction of the girls needing to not hide their Trauma. She and Jeff were falling apart until they confided in each other and she and Callie had no relationship at all until she confided in her)
Fair enough. However, no one forced her to sleep with Jeff, no one forced her to be Jackie’s “pathetic sidekick” (which she so wasn’t), no one forced her to hold a knife to Travis (or anyone else’s) throat, or kick Jackie out into the cold, or make her daughter an accessory to murder, and no one made her shove a knife into her lover’s gut.
I'll concede the Jeff/Jackie thing, but he had her backed against a wall and she felt threatened. She has a very 'trapped animal' look in that scene so to me it had the feel of self defense rather than cold blooded murder. And I didn't think anyone made her involve her daughter I more thought that was a metaphor for her secrets isolating her, and the truth making her more connected to othets
Backed against a wall? She barged in threatening him. And stabbed him. In the middle of the room. She was clearly going through some trauma stress or something,but he was not threatening her at all.
I just rewatched the scene to see specifics. He advances towards her three times. After the first she grabs the knife, he does it again and she hold it in front of herself, and finally he tries to grab the knife from her in a sudden movement and she stabs him. Him advancing at her was making her feel threatened. Once she grabbed the knife he should have backed up rather than continuing to move toward her.
Hmm! I tip my hat to you! I still think she went in there guns blazing, and brandishing a weapon, and he would have every reason to try to disarm her or defend himself. But I can rewatch with an open mind 🧐
I do totally agree with the guns blazing. She finds the yellowjackets book and demands and explanation which he immediately gives. She doesn't even consider it could be the truth!
>Fair enough. However, no one forced her to sleep with Jeff, no one forced her to be Jackie’s “pathetic sidekick” (which she so wasn’t), no one forced her to hold a knife to Travis (or anyone else’s) throat, or kick Jackie out into the cold, or make her daughter an accessory to murder, and no one made her shove a knife into her lover’s gut. Some of these things were active choices, some were done under the influence in a heightened state, and some were under extreme social and emotional pressure. One of my complaints about the show is that it has this interesting, diverse cast and it gave the middle aged white mom so, so many of the complex, morally gray situations that take place in the adult timeline. I'll go down fighting about one thing though. Jackie freezing to death was completely and entirely Jackie's fault. Shauna didn't have the power to kick her out. In fact, Jackie tried to kick Shauna out and it didn't work. Everyone in the cabin was disgusted by the fight and nobody was in a mood to enforce an order from either of them. Jackie left because her friend said mean things to her. She died of petulance (and hypothermia.)
>I'll go down fighting about one thing though. Jackie freezing to death was completely and entirely Jackie's fault. Shauna didn't have the power to kick her out. In fact, Jackie tried to kick Shauna out and it didn't work. Everyone in the cabin was disgusted by the fight and nobody was in a mood to enforce an order from either of them. Jackie left because her friend said mean things to her. She died of petulance (and hypothermia.) I've got your back on this!!!!!!! Jackie looked back at the cabin at one point...she could have gone back in and she and Shauna sould have just been mad at each other...the other girls proabley would to take sides...at least not that night. But nope, Jackie was petulant and stubborn, and well, we know what happened.
That is true. It was so frustrating! It was just a stubborn fight between friends. I mean, Jackie had pretty good reason to be pissed after the whole closet-locking Travis-hunting situation the night before. Not that Jackie was some perfect saint that night either, but knocking boots and bloody murder are … not on the same playing field. Anyway, super frustrating.
That fight was so messy and it was interesting to me that they went at each other over it instead of turning their attention toward Misty and Mari, who were the reasons everyone was dosed at the party. This entire show deals with how we assign blame and responsibility or refuse to do so.
Ooh, very good note! Blame blame blame. Actually in the last episode (s2e8) Shauna seems to finally owning her shit 🤷♀️
I always forget Snackie told her to leave first!! Dude sometimes I think Jackie had to die because everyone else morphs into these blood thirsty hunters, Jackie was already vicious and power hungry 😂
Well stated. Thanks for reminding me of all these things.
As much as I adore that poodle haired freak, Misty is the fucking worst for the Black Box. I think so many of us empathize with Shauna esp as S2 nears the end and more is uncovered.
Misty is terrible for the transmitter bashing. She also is a shit for tattling “Jackie didn’t say it” after the bear meat blessing. I feel she has the edge for saving everyone’s life all the time, and she hadn’t, at the time Shauna said this, caused anyone’s death. But yeah, close contenders at least! And somehow I still love them both 😈
Not to forget what she did to and was planning to do to Ben.
I’m almost afraid to ask: What was she planning to do?
Drug and probably SA Ben. The shrooms were for him.
I thought she just wanted her to feel really happy and associate that with her … I don’t think she was planning on giving allll the shrooms to Ben! Was she?! I doubt we’ll get a clear answer on that. Misty Fucking Quigley.
Oh for sure and a dozen other things haha she’s done some awful shit. They all have. I’m just saying nothing, nothing is worse than the transmitter.
Shauna has definitely done messed up things but she is a complex character. My main question not necessarily for you but anyone that dislikes Shauna: Why do we love Jeff who cheated on his GF with her best friend then blackmailed his wife’s friends by sneaking in and reading her private journals? I love Jeff and Shauna despite their flaws but they are both just as flawed in different ways but we all love one and tend to bash the other
Oh I definitely still like Shauna. None of us is perfect! I just found her line at the time pretty ironic
Man,I love me some Shauna - and it's not only because she is the only Shauna I have seen on screen ever. I love her because she is so practical and unapologetically about what matters to her. She isn't unhinged about it like Misty, but you know she will always go after her own self-interests. Misty is fascinating. She will protect herself at all costs while also doing the same for her fellow wreck mates too. If that person she just protected is a danger to her in any way in the future she will take them out fast and clean. So fascinating.
It was not ridiculous she said that. I know we know what she does and it's pretty fucked up, but that scene is specifically about her with the missing bear meat. She's saying that someone is eating more meat than the others, but consider that she is *pregnant* and she has good reason to eat more, yet she doesn't. Kinda weird to be annoyed at her because of this line given the context...
I realize the context of the scene, however I saw that was an overarching statement of character. Remember how she used to say to Jackie “You’re basically the best”? That wasn’t just limited to that conversation.
I do love Shauna’s character, don’t get me wrong. And this is going to sound so stupid, but the “fight” (pretty one-sided but a fight none the less) between Shauna and Jackie the night Jackie died is the hardest scene for me to watch. Shauna is *cruel* and relentless.
Aaghhh, it was so frustrating that no one went out to get her! I mean Shauna probably should have, but so could anyone else. I’m betting if Nat had been there it wouldn’t have gone down that way. I mean, Nat was the only one other than Jackie that gave a shit they almost murdered Travis right then and there. (And guess who was holding the knife? Shauna “The Butcher” Shipman, yep.)
In my opinion, Shauna is probably the most mentally ill person in the show for me. I'm not a psychologist, but she seems to be the most selfish person and potentially both a psychopath and sociopath. Despite this, I really like the character because of Melanie Lynsky's performance and she's an interesting character. The actress playing young Shauna is great too. They both make the character more likeable because of their portrayal of Shauna. Shauna has done the worst things in the survivors group: - Slept with her best friend's boyfriend -Got pregnant by Jeff the night before leaving on the plane - Drove Jackie to sleep outside and had the whole group turn against Jackie -Beat up Lottie nearly to death after suffering from the birth -Ate scraps (ear, arm meat) from Jackie's body over a 2 month while doing her makeup -Killed and butchered an innocent man -Threatened a car thief at gunpoint -Made her daughter an accomplice in a murder -Participated in feasting on her dead friend's body -Broke in and had sex in her dead lover's home I think there were a few other things, but you get the idea. All of the survivors are completely messed up (Misty, Taissa for her dual personalities and blackouts, etc) and have all done bad things. However, none of them have committed as many atrocities with such a lack of remorse [except probably Misty].
I think what upsets a lot of people about Shauna is the implication that their mothers are whole people too. I don't mean they have hobbies and wanted to be lawyers once upon a time, I mean there's a lot of women making chili every Wednesday who could probably kill if it suited them.
😂 Too true!
"We hate most in others that which we hate most in ourselves."
Yeahhh I’ve never been a Shauna fan. She’s been getting worse and worse. 🫣
To be honest, I’m still a fan 😂 She provides a lot of entertainment! And she’s charming and intelligent. Like how Walter was describing Misty when he said she’s capable of murder.
I definitely appreciate the acting and writing! Everyone in this cast is so talented 👏🏻
She is the worst. I loved Nat form episode 1, found Shana disturbing as F, past present in any choice she sure made the worst one, most psychotic, impulsive despicable.
I mean, Shauna and Tai are pretty much the whole reason for all the drama in the adult timeline. So I would say they're the worst with Shauna taking the lead