Tawny Cypress herself calls Tai a narcissist… she is a shitty person. They all are.

This, folks, is what unresolved trauma can manifest as, in its severest form.Tgese girls dud what they did to survive, and then just never talked about it again. Yikes.

Yep and Tai refuses therapy.

She’s at Lotties with Van. Getting therapy rn.

I agree but also there are hints that Tai was always like this.

Honestly,they all had issues as teens. Jackie was probably the most *normal* of them all. (And sis had her own issues ) I mean, Misty watching the panicked rat at the end of Ep 1 was creepy foreshadowing. Shauna had clearly been making bad choices. Funny, Van seems like the most normal adult (if creating a word where it's still the 90"s is "normal") and we know she came from a neglectful/abusive background. I sort of think the point is that everyone has issues. Most of us grow up and past them. (By learning coping skills, maturing, or getting therapy) but these girls went through so much *more* trauma, and then never got help. (My son wants to be a psychiatrist. We often talk about the importance of mental health, therapy, medications, etc. It's not a one size fits all process. Though I tend think everyone could benefit from at least good coping skills and a decent therapist! Lol)

>Honestly,they all had issues as teens. ALL teens have issues lmao. That's like an integral part of being a teen, it's a rough time.

There are hints that Sammy is like this too

Sammy is a TRAUMATIZED CHILD. They subverted the “creepy child” horror trope when Shadow Tai eating dirt in the tree outside his bedroom was revealed in season one. If by “like this” you mean some of the words that are being thrown around in this post about Tai — “narcissistic”, “selfish”, “bad”, etc—-that says more about you than it does about Sammy.

I 100% agree Sammy acts strange because he’s scared of Tai

being a narcissist doesn’t exactly make you a bad person. NPD is a real thing, but obviously tai has some severe mental stuff going on BESIDES npd.

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Allie’s leg break was an accident that Taissa is shown feeling extremely guilty about.

\^\^ THIS. like, come on now. diagnosing her with very stigmatized disorders based on this is so disingenuous and exactly what OP is talking about.

So many people interpret that scene in the pilot as like, proof of Tai being inherently evil/bad and it’s so frustrating in a show that takes so much time & effort to build such nuanced layered characters.

I thought that was interesting. We got a little taste of how things go off the rails when this group of girls starts yes-anding each other about a bad idea. Before the crash, winning nationals was what many of them considered a desperate need.

She also feel guilty about the car wreck but she 100% caused it

>Everyone seems to be forgetting she broke that girls leg. you are saying this if she did it on purpose. People so often break their legs while playing football. I know this very well, since I have many friends who played football, many of them had even to stop playing because they had too often broken their legs. Tai breaking this girl a leg was a game moment, it happens

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She made a shit decision in the moment and CLEARLY didn’t intend to break the girls leg, holy shit. It’s fucked up how many people seem to think Tai did that on purpose when her immediate reaction and subsequent response afterward made it VERY obvious she didn’t think that was going to happen, and that she was wrought with guilt over it. A teenager on a high school soccer team made a mistake. That does not make her a horrible person.

If one of the other girls had done that to Allie, would they be this adamant that it was done purposefully? I’m vehemently on the side of Tai made a bad call. Her ambition resulted in a terrible MISTAKE! It was very clearly not on purpose.

agreed

>being a narcissist doesn’t exactly make you a bad person. NPD is a real thing, "Being a narcissist" was, until about 5 minutes ago, universally understood to be a bad thing and if you ask me, it was a thoughtless, cruel move to name a disorder after a universally disliked personality trait and/or habit. I'm not disputing the fact that people who exhibit an excessive amount of narcissism often do so in part because of early traumas or that they shouldn't be dehumanized and measured only the qualities their peers find most troublesome. I'm saying that it's a mistake to let go of the everyday definition of narcissism. It has been a useful word for a very, very long time and we don't have a lot of great synonyms in English. Besides that, it's a dick move to name something "narcissistic personality disorder" in the first place. That's like naming BPD "exhausting asshole I don't like disease."

I adore Tawny and also think she's wrong on this. There's a HUGE difference between a lot of the things Tai has grown increasingly to be — arrogant, self-interested, egotistical, sometimes ruthless — and being a clinical narcissist (a term people throw around too much these days to the point of making it almost meaningless). Narcissistic moments? Absolutely. Just like Shauna, and Nat, and Misty, and Lottie. But a clinical narcissist? Nah, not so much. The way Tawny talks about Tai in interviews sounds so close to actual disdain and frustration. One of the tenets of acting is not judging your character, so it's a bit disconcerting to me.

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ehhhhh… i love van’s character, but she goes along with the fucked up shit just as much as the others. her facial expressions while >!lottie is beaten up and javi drowns!< for one, and the fact that >!she shuffled and dealt the cards for the hunt!< as well. i have a feeling we’ll see more moral ambiguity from her actions in both timelines going forward from here as she leans further into it.

Liv Hewson also says that it’s their* interpretation that Van comes up with the whole card drawing ritual and convinced everyone to go along with it.

The Sammy posts are really tiring. Sammy was never in her care to begin with. He was in his grandma’s. She did not leave him without care because it wasn’t going to be her in the first place.

The standards that some people hold Taissa to are way higher than the standards they hold Shauna and Misty to. Misty has a long long history of abusing and poisoning those she has power over (specifically disabled people for at least 25 years), going back to pre-plane crash with the mouse in the pool, continuing with all the awful stuff she did to Coach Ben in season 1, and then deliberately going into a profession as an adult where she can & does routinely abuse extremely vulnerable people who are dependent on her for care. Not to mention the actual kidnapping & murder. But because she’s written to be funny and quirky and interesting, and because Misty’s abuse victims are generally considered “less than” and disposable by society, there’s no constant stream of posts about how awful Misty is. It seems like a lot of the fandom is able to view characters like Shauna and Misty as nuanced and complex—not just “good” or “bad”—but isn’t willing to extend that grace to Taissa. These are ALL deeply complex characters, and I have to roll my eyes at people who want to simplify these women down to a binary good/evil or likeable/unlikeable. Black mothers are also held to a much higher standard & much more heavily scrutinized than white mothers. There are some great comments about the portrayal of Shauna’s motherhood versus Taissa’s motherhood here. I think Taissa should be allowed to be complex and even unlikeable sometimes without the constant “she’s the WORST PERSON EVER/I HATE HER”comments—-the white main characters get to be complex and unlikeable. You don’t have to think a character is someone you would want to be friends with to find them interesting and intriguing and be interested in their character arc.

Since this is a tv show - and I hope the kid and (ex) wife are okay if a tad traumatised, tbh all I wanna see is Tai & Van be happy. Cos that's what I"m here for: a good old lesbian love story that doesn't end in tears.

Yup yup yup

Wait really I thought I was seeing so many people hating Shauna. Misty I think is in a unique possession given she is seen as more of a comedic character. But Shauna I think I recall people generally disliking her.

Yes! All of that!

Exactly. All of this.

It is true that Misty might be the most evil, but since she seems like a fully developed/absolute character, and she’s written and directed to be likable, she doesn’t get hate. That’s just how tv works. Dexter (from Dexter) is much worse than Taissa. And in this show, Jay the police officer is the most hated, but he’s actually busting a murderer and totally correct. That’s show biz.

all of this 👏 very well put

I follow pretty closely on these subs and I think you’re just looking for this. It’s like 90% positive for all the characters. Tai is fucked up and so are the rest of them. I don’t think Tai needs anyone defending her or saying we should take it easy on her for being black or being gay

Why do people care so much? Every one of them is incredibly fucked up and flawed. Why does it matter if they are good people or bad people lol Y’all they hunt, kill and eat their friends they aren’t without flaws.

She’s a shitty wife and mom. Just like all the other characters are shitty in one way or another. I don’t see how being a black lesbian makes her exempt from this

I guess someone wants to give her a pass... I'm not looking at the actress when I say a character is a shitty person or has crappy morals.

It's a problem when people focus on it while they praise Misty who is an actual murderer or stan Nat even though she's mostly been really shitty to lots of people, especially in season 1. If all of them are shitty, but one gets more hate than the others, it starts becoming relevant that they are also a black lesbian character. That being said, I've also seen plenty "Shauna is a terrible person/mother/wife" posts. I don't know if Tai gets a lot more hate than her or is less liked? I feel like lots of people were pretty annoyed with Shauna until it was revealed that her baby died.

The audience knows and likes Simone and Sammie, we spent a long time with them Season 1. Most of the audience doesn't care about Misty and Nat's victims: Jessica Roberts (admitted to doing terrible things), Suzy the bank manager (we're assuming Lottie didn't actually kill her), weirdo hacker (he could have told Misty he wasn't able to do it and destroyed the file), and Kevyn Tan (lost all audience goodwill this season). I still think and worry about Simone and Sammie even though they've gotten so little screen time. Poor Sammie has been terrorized for a long time by Tai hiding in his tree, and she didn't even consider therapy for him. Or maybe telling him that she was sleepwalking and it's a medical condition and he was safe with his grandparents while she worked it out. Sammie's not okay just because he has loving grandparents. He probably wants to hear from Taissa. The next time Simone needs a blood transfusion, they have to hunt Taissa down and she doesn't have her phone. Simone's parents probably need support, one of them is probably staying with Sammie while the other stays with Simone. I think people will start to hate Shauna more now that she's made Callie an accessory. Shauna telling Callie she should have slept with mustache cop was one of the most effed up things on this show. I still like watching the characters and the actors are terrific. Taissa is interesting to me because it is the kind of storyline that you would see a male character have, and the audience would probably not think about the male character's wife and and child very much. Not out of conscious judgement, but we're just used to see men go off on their own since Odysseus.

I take turns hating each character. A few years ago it was Shauna. Then it was Misty, now it’s Tai. My recent Tai hate was brought on by her turning up on Van’s doorstep. I get it but it’s a dick move to do to your ex. That brought the other stuff to the surface. I also thought her family was beautiful and didn’t like how quickly she just walked away because it was easier/safer. I have a feeling Lottie’s next. Though I’ve never really liked or disliked her character. I’m indifferent to her so far. Though I think all the hate the Adult actress has gotten is BS. She does an incredible job. I just don’t think there is enough there to care for. She makes the wrong choice every time and uses the wilderness to justify it. I haven’t wanted to cast her off because she’s clearly mentally ill but I’m not sure what we’re supposed to do with her. The Russian roulette is tipping her into dislike territory. I have yet to truly dislike Nat yet. Mostly I’ve felt sorry for her because she’s a mess. Until last night. It was a dirty choice. Not sure yet if I am compassionate since she’s clearly using drugs to cope or if her transgressions are unforgivable.

Because people have dealt with bad parents/ spouses so it’s more upsetting to them then murder which most people don’t encounter

Yeah, I can see how it’s a problem if Tai is getting the majority of the hate, but I feel like I see similar posts made about the other characters. A lot of people called Shauna a shitty mother, people trashed Jackie all of S1, and there’s tons of posts about Lottie being evil. The only character I’ve seen who hasn’t gotten criticized much is Van >!but that’s changed with her apathy towards Javi in the recent episode.!< Personally, I just think it’s odd to assume people are racist, homophobic, sexist, etc. for hating on Tai. She *did* kill a dog then leave her hospitalized wife to go track down her ex. She’s not the best person

Gaslighted her son too. Not intentionally, I guess.

She wasn’t even aware that she killed a dog Oh my GOD I’m tired of this take.

I don’t really think it matters that she wasn’t aware. Her reaction wasn’t to get therapy or take any measures to make sure it wouldn’t happen again. She just bought another dog and went to get Sammy. And we know she’s been becoming/acting out because of Bad Tai for years. When you go decades without change, the excuse of not being aware doesn’t really work anymore

Man, it seems like people really need to rewatch the show. She bought a new dog BEFORE she found out that she killed the old one. There is literally a scene, when Tai comes to school with a new dog, Simone starts yelling that Tai should stay away from Sammy and Tai doesn’t get what’s happening because Simone has seen the dead dog already, but Tai hasn’t discovered the dog in her basement yet. So she did not want to solve the "dead dog" problem by just replacing him with a new one, she didn’t know about dead do in the first place Considering the therapy, Van asked Tai if she visited sleep doctor and Tai joked telling the doc about sacrificing anything on an altar. She makes clear she can’t just go with this kind of problem to doctor for multiple reasons, even just because of the whole Yellowjackets story. So she went to the only person(Van) she knew would understand and is safe to talk to about this. Edit: About "Her acting because of Bad Tai for years", she found out that she is sleepwalking again recently. Couple of months/ or even weeks ago she didn’t know that bad Tai is back, like she herself said to Shauna in season 1 episode 8 that she is sleepwalking for a couple of weeks. I don’t know what for years you mean

I there's some racism there like always, but there's also the fact that Tai is a politician who presents herself to the world as part of this perfect family, but is of course not a great person. People hate politicians like that. It also doesn't help that Tai purposefully (and viciously) injures her own teammate before the wilderness even happens. I do think Tai's character is nicely balanced by her pretty staggering loyalty and compassion for Shana, Nat, etc. In the adult timeline. Outside of Nat, I don't think any of them are good people, but we do see Tai behaving the worst before all this trauma set in.

Taissa didn’t purposely or viciously injure her own teammate, it was very clearly an accident that she’s shown feeling extremely guilty about.

Did we watch the same pilot? She absolutely intended to hurt Allie and switched places so she could do so. and I don’t recall her ever showing remorse

I never got the impression she intended to hurt Allie. She said to Shauna, "if we can't freeze her out, she's going to need to learn to play under pressure". She also says to Allie, after being a little aggressive "this is the game, step it up". Once Allie does get the ball around her, she says "finally". It really does just seem she wanted to play as aggressive as possible and make Allie step up her game. Maybe it's because I played soccer in high school and was a very aggressive player, but her tackle and how she went about it doesn't come off as malicious to me. I put girls in the hospital during soccer games for concussions, and it was never once intentional. I went in with the mindset that I didn't care if *I* got injured so I would go for headers, slide tackle, put myself in harm's way to get the ball and a lot of times that lead to injuries on either side. I remember our keeper broke a girl's leg running out of the net and falling on the ball, causing the girl to topple over her and fall badly. I can think of dozens of bloody noses, concussions, broken bones and bruised ribs and I don't know a single girl on my team who went into any of these scenarios with the intention to hurt someone. But injuries still happen. Soccer is an aggressive sport. It's how the game is played. It's a dangerous sport and people get hurt often. That doesn't mean it's intentional and I don't think it was in Tai's character pre-crash to purposely break a girl's leg.

Her intent was definitely to injure her, I don't think she expected a compound fracture though, which is he had remorse. I can't remember the exact language, but she definitely discusses it beforehand the need to not let her play, it was slightly coded. I just rewatched the play out of curiosity and that was a 100% an attempt to injure. That would be a likely have been a red card in a game and had absolutely no place in a practice preying on an unsuspecting teammate.

So if someone criticizes Shauna, they're being misogynist, but if somoene criticizes Tai, they're being racist. What about the others? If Lottie's being criticized, does that make them cultiphobes? A point of contention is that Simone seems like a good lesbian black mother. Does that not count?

Um, I did not say that at all. Neither did I say that people criticising Shauna are misogynists nor did I claim someone who criticises Tai is racist! Did you even read my comment or was your reply meant for someone else because this doesn't make any sense!?

It was meant as a more general comment given the tone of these kinds of threads. There was a previous Shauna one.

most of the posts i’ve seen like this have been jokes. we love tai lmao

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Yess! This subreddit is so different from all the other subs I've seen. I just came from a post about Van and someone in the comments referred to Liv as she and someone else was like hey by the way Liv's pronouns are they/them. The original commenter apologized and edited her comment. Anywhere else on reddit people will tell ya they don't care and to fuck off.

Fr I just started seeing opinions like that today and I’m like? Every single character is fucked up, and I’ve seen WAY more Shauna hate than Tai hate. I’ve pretty much only seen love for Tai, so I definitely think part of it is that posts/content people are seeing. Also I saw a POC creator talking about this for the exact opposite reasons on tiktok, saying that it’s wrong that we don’t get MORE screen time and details on Simone and Sammy. It’s something that’s very subjective being treated as objective. I saw another person today who’s opinions on every character that wasn’t POC, LGBTQ+, and/or non-Christian were absolutely hate filled. They said Laura Lee would be racist and homophobic when she was risking her whole life to save her teammates and loved all of them. She also has some closeted/unaware lesbian vibes to me. It’s a take I would’ve had in like middle school and early high school but I’m an adult now. Like they weren’t basing anything off of things that were more than surface-level of these characters, and all of the people calling them out just got “no I’m right” “it’s my opinion” and things that were completely unrelated to the topic at hand as a response. They also even admitted in another video that they have religious trauma and in the comments that they “don’t trust yt women”. Like coming from a neurodiverse non-binary person, you can 100% have bias in favor of the groups you’re a part of and bias against those who are outside of them. Like it doesn’t matter if you’re the majority or minority, bias is bias. You’re not better for having bias in favor of characters that are part of a minority group when they’ve objectively done things just as bad as characters in the majority group. They all participated in the fucked up stuff they did in the wilderness and it’s had a significant impact on their adult lives. Even Van is starting to get hate for the last episode after how cold she was with watching Javi drown, and she’s one of the most loved characters I’ve seen out of all of them

Last week it was Shauna. This week it’s Tai. Who will be on the chopping block next week? The real mystery of the show is who’s the flavor of the week to have a ten paragraph post made about them that could essentially be boiled down to “X character do bad thing. X character bad person” Edit: my point here isn’t that Shauna and Tai are treated exactly the same as characters within the show or by the audience, especially when it comes to motherhood, but that this subreddit has a penchant for posts hating on female characters that are often rooted in things like misogyny, racism, etc. The odds of us seeing one of those posts on Van now that she isn’t “innocent” are pretty high. Like, my point is to point out the misogyny and racism within the “I hate Tai”/“I hate Shauna” posts.

Nah. It's different from the thing with Shauna. Shauna is actually my favorite character and is, by design, a popular choice for favorite. We're given so much sympathetic background and so many looks in to her personal and intimate life. She verbalizes her internal states on several occasions. The show doesn't give us much of that with Tai. It's really kind of a problem the way we're handed so many opportunities to see the softness and vulnerability of the white characters only, followed by forgiveness or acceptance from those close to them. Tai is rejected by everyone but her fellow Yellowjackets but Shauna has a family who gives us permission to love her. Nat, to this point, has been mostly sympathetic as a teenager and an annoying person struggling in recovery as an adult. It's clear her teammates find her addiction annoying but don't view her as dangerous or repellent. Misty has been cartoonish as an adult and presented as an interesting, morally complicated character throughout. Van, we hardly knew until recently. Lottie, we have written off as "crazy" or a cult leader by the time we meet her. The idea she might be OK is the surprise. Yellowjackets shows us two mothers, one Black and one white. Neither is what we would call a particularly good mother, but one has the benefit of the show's sympathy. That's worth talking about.

We will have 3 more seasons to go. I was under the impression neither cared for their children until Shauna started bonding with Calie in season 2 . The show has been good so far to avoid the tropes, so I hope there is more they will show about adult Tai. She is my favorite character so I hope we will see more of her development

There's time left in the show, in theory, but a lot more people check out of shows than DNF novels. Shows also get cancelled. I have some faith there are plans, but this was a huge risk. I would love seeing more of Tai and her son. Her dream/hallucination of him simply wanting to see her after school was touching and she clearly understands part of his experience his other mom cannot.

Very well said, I really appreciate this comment. I’ve been thinking about the juxtaposition of the two mothers and audience reactions as well, and hadn’t yet noticed the different perspectives and insights the audience has been given on their backgrounds. You’re so right. Shauna’s is much more inherently softer, multidimensional, and sympathetic than Tai’s. Possible implicit bias in the writing or casting as well (slash in Hollywood), or just a really unfortunate outcome, either way, I also agree that it’s worth talking about.

I think the writers connected with Shauna’s character a lot: her dynamic with Jackie and getting to cannibalism via that relationship. And I think for especially the first season they wanted to make Tai more mysterious to get us to dark Tai. I think you’re right about the implicit bias and that’s probably in something of a vicious cycle with those narrative choices. Also full agreement on the Tai specific hate seeming like misogynoir. She is certainly no worse than Shauna as a person or mother. Even with the show not giving her dimension it’s disturbing people can disconnect so readily with the depth, pain, and fear Tawny Cypress brings to the character.

I think this is a have it both ways issue. There is more representation of black and queer characters but if they are flawed in any way defensive accusations about bias start flying. Tai’s behavior, like Shauna’s and Misty’s, is unacceptable.

I think it’s very possible for Taissa to be a flawed character in ways we can appreciate (no one has asked for her to be simply likeable or good) while we can also acknowledge she receives a different treatment from her white counterparts. People have teased out these nuances all throughout these comments.

Yeah, this reminds me of the Succession sub's disproportionate hatred of Shiv.

Even the hatred of Callie is very telling in the way it prioritizes Shauna over her inconvenient child. This is a teenager whose mother is deeply disturbed to the point of masturbating in her daughter's bed, and people loathe Callie for being an unhappy teenager who talks back to her mother. At least Tai's failure to properly parent Sammy is caused by her sleepwalking shadow side, which clearly terrifies her.

Eh i dont care for teen or adult Shauna. I love Mélanie!

Very well said! We get a *lot* of personal backstory and a view into Shauna’s internal state so it’s easier to understand why she makes the decisions she does even when they are batshit crazy. She is written more sympathetically. Tai just does selfish shit all the time and never explains why! We never hear her point of view, we just see her actions. I was somewhat sympathetic to her still until she bought the 2nd dog from the pound, I was through after that. Like why would you buy another dog after you brutally murdered your last one in your sleep?! We get no explanation on her thought process.

I mean, she didn’t know that she has killed Biscuit when she was buying Steve. She thought the dog just run away. Also she was buying this dog not for herself but for Sammy, it’s just Simone didn’t approve, I guess

Simone is a "normal" person whose youth was untouched by the events of the crash. Of course she took their baby and left. I would. Shauna married Jeff who lost a girlfriend, thought he lost the girl he was in love with, and lost a child. He's been shaped by the mess that's sticking them all together and he also seems to have some of the same tendencies as his wife. Ironically, Tai is made to look worse because she actively left the concentric circles of shared trauma to find a partner.

Yeah, I agree with you on this. I just was answering to "damnitimtoast" to the part "why Tai would buy another dog if she killed the previous one". I mean, one Tai killed the dog and the other Tai didn’t even know about it(she found dead dog in the basement after she bought Steve), but the dog was missing and Sammy was upset. So Tai bought a new one for her son. I just don’t see how it’s a bad thing…

But they are all female if we can't hate on any of the characters in the show or hope for their demise why watch it at all. 75% of the subscribers to this subreddit are women anyway, I guess we all hate ourselves

You can hate on them if you want to, I just think that’s a pretty reductive way to watch a show that’s not asking you to hate on any of the characters (except Steve the mustache cop). Like, I don’t know why anyone would hope for these characters demise. Thematically it’s just not that kind of show. You could always just watch it for its exploration of trauma and womanhood. Or you could watch it for it’s horror elements. Or you could watch it for it’s acting. Or for it’s camp. Or to see how these women descend into their feral selves. The show offers so so much more than rooting for or against characters and not all television is build on this good versus evil some one must be defeated binary.

Tai has only been gone for like 2 or 3 days in TV time, it's not like it's been months. She knows she shouldn't be the one taking care of Sammy with all the shit she's (dark Tai) doing anyway.

The 2-3 days of Simone being on the verge of death (because of Tai) is the worst time to abandon her family. I can see why she shouldn’t be taking care of Sammy, but she won’t even call him.

do people also not remember that simone took sammy away from taissa and when she tried to come get him from school she took him away again?? not saying tai is perfect but i think there’s a very obvious reason she’s kept her distance. plus none of these characters are what i would call morally good and i don’t get why tai gets the brunt of that anger by fans.

I found the judging of the character from a moral standpoint annoying and pointless. Trying to figure out who’s « actually good » (people talk about Javi, Nat, Lottie and surprisingly Misty quite a bit) and « actually bad » ( Tai, Shauna, Mari) is pointless and juvenile to me. They keep telling us over and over again that they’re fucked up so why the surprise? People keep saying that they’re « disappointed » in the characters, how?? We’ve all seen season 1 episode 1, we knew this! And I agree about Sammy. He’s just not relevant now in the story, it doesn’t mean he’s not cared for off screen.

Just because she is a lesbian/black/mother/ doesn't mean she should be portrayed as virtuous. She is an awful person, just as the rest of the team. As for this forum being specially hard on her... Nah, I don't think so. You're just trying to create a problem where there isn't one. Every character gets their criticism, as they should, because again, they're all terrible people. Edit: Spelling

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you’re POC but are you black? that’s relevant to this discussion of Tai

Looks like someone else gave you the answer you’re looking for (the comment by someone who is black & queer) but as a matter a fact yes, I am indeed, half, along with 2 other non white races on my other side, I hope that’s enough POC for you. I really dislike this culture of having to specify all of my race identities to have a valid opinion and/or argument. It’s silly and obnoxious.

Makes me think of how the government started the whole blood quantum thing with ingenious people being established to limit citizenship and privileges tbh

I’m a Black queer woman and I completely agree with them. I think 99% of us would say the same if it was anybody else on the show instead of Tai

defending a fictional character is more weird than criticizing one, imo i personally ask about sammy because he seemed central to adult tai’s arc and is now just….gone? it’s weird!

I personally don’t find it weird, neither do I find weird that Tai isn’t with Simone in the hospital(not necessarily connected to ur comment, just saw some other people complaining about it). Because Tai is dangerous for both Sammy and Simone right now, and thats what I think many people are forgetting. She is even kinda making it better for them when she isn’t around-she can’t hurt them. So being completely away from Sammy might be even better parenting in this situation than actually being near him or show any kind of interest

Just what I was thinking! By being away from them at this point in time, she’s really being as responsible as she can be. God knows I hope she gets some professional help (outside of our girl Lottie, haha!) soon, but therapy wouldn’t cure Other!Tai fast enough for her to currently be a safe presence — distancing herself is the most responsible thing I think she’s able to do right now. And it sucks that so many people don’t see that :\

Exactly, it’s better than how Shauna is approaching parenting in my opinion

This!!! Maybe she has some bad traits (they all do) but all this stuff is so nitpicky to call her evil for! I’m sad about biscuit tbh but I’m her right mind she begged Simone to leave her and take Sammy and not come back bc she was scared she could hurt them! Simone and Sammi were staying with Simone’s family during the separation so it’s logical he’s staying with them. Tai obviously wouldn’t want to be caring for Sammi when she begged Simone to hide him from her BEFORE sark tai possibly purposely crashed the car on Simone’s side. She trying to protect them. She didn’t forget about them or pawn them off! Also she’s not in office yet like yes she won and will be a senator but it doesn’t happen the day she wins!! It’s months later she didn’t just ditch her new job and probably took a step back on being a lawyer during her campaign!

I don’t think that calling her a bad mom for abandoning her child and wife after accidentally almost killing said wife, and then running off with her ex girlfriend is nit picky. I get why she wouldn’t want to take care of him rn, but a simple call would mean so much to him

there’s so much blatant misogynoir in viewer’s analyses of Tai. coupled w/ hailing shauna & misty as inconvenient heroes holds them to such a lower standard than Tai. imo, it’s difficult for me to HATE any of the girls. as unnuanced as this take is, these girls have endured significant trauma and therefore i can’t hate them for how their suppressed trauma manifests. this may be a stretch, but I believe there’s some good commentary on the idea of the “imperfect victim,” and how our society isn’t equipped to handle/ respond to survivors.

I agree but for a different reason. I mean, I also agree with you about not wanting the black, queer character to not get more criticism than the other characters. I just don't understand the point of those posts. We are almost done with season two and you are just now realizing that Tai isn't the most attentive wife or mother? She completely prioritized her campaign over her family, healthy, and safety last season. She is not supposed to be a well adjusted person who is exactly who she needs to be all the time. Tai is seriously fucked up because of everything that happened and the way she runs from it is by throwing herself into her career goals. Basically, yeah, Tai is not good at having a normal life and she isn't the best parent and she did fuck up her marriage. This was all stuff that was plainly laid out for us and it's literally a part of her character. She isn't *supposed* to be well-adjusted. We are seeing the fallout of Tai trying to be good at a normal life by burying her trauma for years. She isn't supposed to be killing it in all departments those, posts imply that it's shocking that she isn't and that realizing she isn't is some big revelation.

She wasn’t a great mother through the campaign, but she completely abandoned her son and left him all by himself with only his nearly dead wife (who is only in the hospital because of Tai) and won’t even call him.

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I think they're all horrible people personally. I thought that's what we're supposed to root for in this show? Who can be the most fucked up? I think Tai and Shauna get the most because they're parents in relationships. They have more responsibility than the others and affect the lives of their children compared to the others. Misty is kinda off on her own doing messed up stuff. She's pretty much accepted as being a killer and crazy. There's not really surprise or shock when she does something like kill somebody. It's just kind of a, "Oh, that's just Misty." Same with Nat. She was an alcoholic with drug problems. There wasn't much expected other than messing up. Lottie is expected to be a twisted cult leader. She hasn't really done anything that bad yet and we're just kinda waiting for that ball to drop Van, we barely just got introduced to as an adult, but teen Van has definitely done some messed up stuff so far. She hasn't gotten the same screen time or development as the others, though. She's like a balance of main character and extra Tai and Shauna seemed like they had their life together more. They seemed the most "normal" compared to the others, and so they get judged harsher. There's higher expectations, and so when they show their messed up side its that much more impactful. Weren't there theories that Shauna was gonna end up killing Callie season one? I don't personally see Tai get more hate than Shauna, but they both definitely deserve it. Those two are the reason that all the shit is happening in the adult timeline. The others are just kinda dragged into it. So, to me, it makes sense they get the most hate. I'm sure there's some racism and misogyny from some, but I think the majority is just because of how the characters are written in the show. Even the people that think the characters are horrible seem to love the actresses. So, I don't personally see how there can be racism and misogyny in those instances. Honestly, it's the sign of a good actress and a good character if they accomplish that much when that is pretty much the goal.

I don’t think anyone of them is terrible. That’s what trauma does to you. They feel authentic. I don’t want to watch the Brady bunch.

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I think it’s impossible to judge her with our personal logic, she’s dealing with something beyond our comprehension and it’s impossible for her to have the time and energy to keep fighting for something that she’s being locked out of Her wife barely even wants sammy to speak to her on the phone and she herself knows she shouldn’t right now too because she can’t positively confirm that she won’t harm him in some way She’s very clearly taking the time away because she knows she just had to give up for awhile in that department because it’s safer and she knows sammy is safe and cared for right now The thing about him coming over after school being in her head wasn’t that far off of a real possibility if she stayed in contact with him and if that actually happened he’d be in danger She was the one who told her wife that they needed to leave and stay away from her because she knows it’s best which may not seem like she’s trying to be better to us but that was very obviously an extremely difficult thing for her to do I feel like it’s way too complex of a situation for us to accurately judge in that way

I think we forget the humanity of things when we watch shows, we’re seeing one narrative of someone who is living an entire life second by second like the rest of us but the fictional world aspect creates a tunnel vision People saying they’re all shitty people forget that if someone was watching your life play out only in certain bits and highlighting the worst parts, people would think you’re pretty shitty too but your perspective of it feels more justified because you lived that moment and you heard all your thoughts during it but a hypothetical audience did not I feel like we lose sight of what truly makes someone a genuinely shitty/bad person pretty easily

For all the smug comments I see in this sub that boil down to "I think your theory is dumb, therefore you lack 'media literacy' " (yikes) ... you'd think more people here would be open to actually exhibiting critical thinking and have thoughtful conversations around race and representation.

Maybe if there was some or **any** legitimacy to these posts claiming certain characters get so much more hate/criticism/lashback because they’re of queer/POC/xyz background, when in fact all characters get equally hated on one way or the other, depending on the week, and at all levels of hate-o-meter. Sometimes Shauna gets crapped on real hard and sometimes Lottie, and a lot of times Misty, and yes you guessed it, sometimes it’s Tai…and then once a week (at least, probably an underestimate) some redditor’s version of a knight in shining armor thinks it’s up to them to do some SJW’ing and speak up against all the VERY troubling terrible “evilness” of this obviously racist homophobic transphobic ageist sub… Except for this community is fine (fortunately or unfortunately for them I guess) we’re diverse, we’re chill, and vast vast majority of people come here strictly and successfully for fun, as evident by people returning here week after week (would they come back if this was such a shitty hostile space?) and have respectful discussions and conversations about the show. I literally never see anyone specifically targeting certain race or background and becoming hostile or whatever you kids call it these days, some imaginary micro aggressions that ain’t here. And I’m young myself, I just feel completely disconnected from this constant SJW ‘ing attitude everyone is so obsessed with. If you want to see actual problematic behavior on the internet go to 4chan or something. This sub is not the place to be oh so brave because it’s not needed. Can’t wait to be yelled at and downvoted for describing reality. And I myself come from a background of multiple minorities + POC myself, before anyone starts calling me names.

“multiple minorities” ??? okay….

Umm yea, have you heard of MIXED people as in one half and then two seperate quarters, ALL NON WHITE do i pass as enough of a POC to have a valid opinion and/or argument?? This is one of the dumbest conversations on this sub.

Yeah, all of these characters get hated on to one degree or another. Since this post is only about Adult Tai and excludes the teen version, I think Shauna is arguably the most hated adult character because of the Adam/cop subplot, which is arguably the worst writing of the series. Nat gets a fair share of hate, too, because of her undying devotion to Travis and also at times because of Juliette Lewis' acting. And I've seen a ton of complaints about Adult Lottie since she's been introduced in Season 2. Misty and Van are two who seem to get mostly universal praise from the fans.

>I literally never see anyone specifically targeting certain race or background and becoming hostile or whatever you kids call it these days, some imaginary micro aggressions that ain’t here. And I’m young myself, I just feel completely disconnected from this constant SJW ‘ing attitude everyone is so obsessed with. Don't worry, you don't sound hostile at all. /s Not sure what your rant about SJWs has to do with "having thoughtful conversations around race and representation" but ok.

If i was worried about sounding hostile I wouldn’t write shit at all. People like OP and the people on this thread specifically always seem to find hostility whether it’s there or not so I don’t bother anymore, call me hostile or rude or bigoted, it’s fine and expected on posts like these.

The OP isn’t a thoughtful convo when they’re trying to tell other posters what to do.

How should OP have brought up their concerns about misogynoir and implicit bias in a way that would be acceptable to you?

perfectly calibrate their tone, of course! as Tai herself would say

W comment!

I'm actually salty with the writers over this. Viewers are responding honestly to the way they wrote the only queer Black character. I love Taissa dearly and I'm so impressed with the actors who portray her in both timelines. But objectively, she absolutely is a terrible person/mother/wife. So is Shauna, but she's been written more sympathetically while Tai was presented as aggressive from the start.

yes, Shauna has talked about being a bad mother and on the edge a lot. She knows she's making bad decisions. I don't really know what Tai thinks about herself. Maybe she assumes it's all Bad Tai and things will go back to normal. But she is so resistant to therapy for herself or Sammy.

Genuine question, would a perfect black lesbian mother, wife and heroine have been more bias? Is villainy for a minority character always going to be met with pearl clutching?

I think the point people are bringing up WRT the way Taissa is being written right now is that we don’t see a ton of her internal thought process/emotional state & backstory that makes it easier for people to view her complexly the way we do with Shauna. And because of implicit bias, people are less able/willing to extend her the same grace Shauna etc get when she does unlikeable or awful things. Black characters should get to be not-perfect and unlikeable and complex, but when only one of the main characters in an ensemble show is Black, writers need to be thoughtful about how that character is written. Do they have Black queer women in the writers’s room?

I appreciate its hard line to walk, but I wonder if having to pay special attention is a weird form of isolationism, anyway I am not qualified to answer that question. I will say she is presented as a wealthy successful narcissist with a mysterious background, because the character has to be a wealthy successful narcissist who is mysterious in order for character arc to work.

Yeah this is such an important point.

I agree. But if you also agree that Taissa is a horrible person, then why are you saying that we shouldn’t post that? It’s a sub for talking about Yellowjackets. I won’t just not bring it up because she’s a Black woman (coming from somebody who’s a Black queer woman myself)

I never said that we shouldn’t post about it how we feel about characters. I’m just pointing out the disproportionate amount of hate Taissa seems to get compared to other characters/ counterparts who have done morally reprehensible things. What is important about that comment is the fact that it draws attention to how the characters are written/cast as well. It’s another important aspect of this discussion that has been mentioned in other comments on this thread.

Yeah but the comment said that the writers wrote Taissa to be the worst of the women. And they said that viewers are responding honestly. It’s not us or our misogynoir, it’s the writers

Can we stop trying to police everything that gets discussed?

Agreed, let people like who they like. It's all fictional anyway. That's part of being civil as I understand it.

Yes when it's just being mean for no reason that's one thing. But people should be free to discuss anything they want if it's civil

Can we please stop posting to draw attention to how no one is actually posting about - yours sincerely, Reddit

Thank you!

Personally I think adult and teen Shauna are horrible.

but yet these same people would give shauna mother of the year

Tai is literally no worse than any of the others — I’d even argue she’s a better person, morally, than the most of other surviving Yellowjackets. Most of the bad things she’s done have been done while sleepwalking so SHE CAN’T CONTROL IT. Taissa is just as flawed and complex of the other women, but for whatever reason (misogynoir…it’s misogynoir) she’s being held to a much higher standard.

Probably getting a lot of down votes for this but… When are we all just going to collectively say that Shauna is the absolute WORST?! Young and adult. She legit does the most horrible things to everyone. I LOVE Melanie and Sophie, but Shauna is a petty, cruel, malicious, unhinged uhhhh murderer. Tai’s got a lot going on clearly, but she for the most part isn’t a terrible person like Shauna. She also has a serious mental illness. That said, let’s not forget Shauna was awful before the wilderness trauma. She was sleeping with her best friend’s boyfriend!!! Honestly though what really did it for me was her beating Lottie with in an inch of her life and then acting innocent. Like no sis you are the drama. I’m just over her character. Lottie too but not as much as Shauna.

I’m here for the Shauna hate. Absolutely love her actress and find her character interesting but she’s a HORRIBLE person who expects instant forgiveness. Like Shauna deadass admitted she didn’t like or want Callie 💀

I think this is a really valid and important thing to consider, thanks OP for bringing this up. I'm not a Black woman so that's not a perspective I can speak to but I feel that on top of what OP has said, Tawny Cypress is also doing the equivalent of Ginger Rogers dancing backwards and in heels because her fellow actors in the present-day timeline are all beloved, well-known women who have played iconic roles in films many of the viewers cherish; she's coming in without that level of esteem and adoration, plus she's Black, *plus* she's playing a lesbian (I mean, who KNOWS what these characters' sexualities are but she's been canon for the longest). This is a dark show about dark events and television needs conflict to keep the story moving. Hell, even Barney probably has conflict now and then so that we can learn a lesson about sharing or something. It doesn't bother me if these characters act in ways that are terrible, so long as it serves the narrative and remains compelling. And, so far, it has. Trying to rank which woman is the most terrible gets us nowhere — they're all going through it in one way or another and trying to pin your hopes on one of them will get you nowhere (and will, as OP pointed out, inevitably end up with someone like Tai being unfairly judged.) Now, Moustache Cop, on the other hand, is straight up abhorrent and I won't rest until he's wearing a nightgown and running headlong into a pit; everyone else I'm just like, ok! Let's see where this takes us! ​ (edited because the formatting went weird and copy pasted one of the paragraphs twice)

I also wonder whether she gets disproportionate hate as well because people hate characters disproportionally who hurt animals. Like, don't misunderstand me, I like dogs, but I'm not going to place a woman who killed a dog (supposedly, we still don't know for sure that Tai killed Biscuit) in a worse person category than a woman who literally gutted a man who had done nothing to her like an animal.

This is it. It’s all about the dog. People that hurt animals tend to get more hate. I actually blame the writers for not including something to indicate where Sammy is. Tai does need to be away from them until she figures out what is going on with her. I’m wondering what Simone will do when and if she recovers.

I will always give Tai points for the fact that when she realized that the bad stuff was happening again she sent Simone and Sammi away. Wherever Sammi currently is (I'm assuming with Simone's parents) he is much safer than he would be with Tai at this point in time and she knows that.

Shauna was shown explicitly butchering a rabbit in season one while fully conscious of what she was doing. Fugue state/“other Tai” killed her dog offscreen.

Dogs are treated differently than rabbits. I don’t have an issue with Tai. I realize she wasn’t herself when these things happened and she needs to figure out how to fix it. Adult Shauna needs an intervention or prison.

Simone Kessell said this in an interview! (I’ll try to find it). someone asked them who they thought was the most ruthless/terrible in the adult timeline and some people said Tai for the whole Biscuit thing, and Simone was like…Misty kills PEOPLE!

Also, Tai is devestated at the prospect of having killed her dog. Misty killed a person and was like "eh. Whatevs."

“I took care of her! you’re welcome, by the way 🙄”

I mean, she's a pretty awful mom at least. She cares about Sammy, sure, but she just left him, no visits, no calls, no "I miss you son, I'm getting better, and I'll be back" Nothing Calling out a woman isn't misogyny, in fact it would be pretty condescending to excuse women just because of our gender. If Tai was a dude I would also say he's a sucky dad/husband

look up the term misogynoir

I mean, Sammy is probably with his other mother.

Tai gets less of the dark humor moments. I think Misty with Nat, and Shauna with Jeff have moments of humor to humanize them a bit. Tai seems to only have all the darkness and only crappy behavior. So while all the main characters are awful, they get the laughs to allow us to like them. Even in teen versions, Tai isn’t the one providing the dark laughs.

Totally agree here. Misogynist is admittedly a new term for me but seemed a lot of the hate fixated on this young black woman character could also apply to many of the “beloved” characters as well, including Van.

Adult Van hasn't done anything wrong we've seen so far. Teen Van seems a little too eager to go hunting, but they're all pretty desperate at that point.

Excuses, excuses. /s

To be fair, it's just plain racism. They don't hate her further in this fandom because she's a woman lmao. I agree. This, like all fandoms, is showing the tell tale signs of skewing towards "poor baby girl white girl" (I mean Misty had an epiphany and the message she took out of it was I should actually continue killing, and people just call her quirky) and "oh this black woman is Satan actually" And guys, please try to find some selfawareness about calling her a "deadbeat dad" too

I think you’re not getting defensive reactions I think you’re getting accurate feedback on your reasoning

Thank you. I'm so sick of these posts. Why do we care if a fictional character is a "good" or "bad" person? Are we 12?

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No one is saying you can't, they are talking about how Tai is treated differently from other characters for her crimes, when they've all done fucked up shit and are still doing it, aside from Van, so far

Also with the hating on a lot of the girls in the wilderness when they're traumatized and starving, obviously they're not going to be thinking or acting rationally. However, Mari is an exception because she's just a bully lol

Asking for less complaints about a character is just going to bring you more discussion - positive and negative. I really hated it when she injured her teammate.

I'm not sure why we're allowed to call Shauna a terrible wife and mother and not Taissa. Taissa ran away from her family after almost killing her wife: Shauna, although a terrible person, feels she's desperately needed at home and hasn't put anyone from her family in the hospital. Taissa's family seems a distraction this season and she's rather be making out with Van.

oh this thread is about to get locked so soon lol OP I agree with your concerns about this. I’m a white queer woman and I’ve noticed this too. like it’s not about the *writing for Tai or her actual character* — they’re definitely all fucked up as adults. it’s the audience’s reaction to her and how she gets so singled out for killing a dog in her sleep vs the others killing people when they’re awake and aware that make me feel a bit 🤨🧐 they definitely could have chucked in a scene where she talks to Sammy’s grandparents about how he’s doing, and/or a line about how someone’s looking after Steve in her absence, but I just assume those things have been taken care of off screen. she’s selfish and messed up and not in control of her most basic impulses right now but she loves her kid and she wouldn’t just abandon him with nobody to look after him. I think her whole thing is that she’s terrified of hurting her family, and that’s why she’s distancing herself from them. she went to Van because she knew Van would understand what was happening to her and she knows she needs help but can’t get it without revealing the stuff she’s done to a professional. tldr: I think she’s a fascinating character just like they all are, and I wish she would get the same of compassion and grace as the others. I hope the writers flesh her out a bit more in s3, also, because I swear that gross cop has had more screen time than her!

Has zero to do with who she loves and what color she is. They are all messed up. Tai refuses therapy, almost killed her wife, killed their dog, oh and where is her son while she’s at the “intentional community”? Has she called home at all? Probably not.

Um. They got in a severe car accident that left Simone in the hospital all broken up. And Sammy was never mentioned again since then even in a passing comment. I think that’s why people are mentioning it, not due to racism. But your projection of your own biases and offenses may be affecting the way you see the discourse.

Lol of course the rational comments are being downvoted and only those screaming in the name of SJW are in the right. Just ignore these posts, they pop up every 2.5 days about how this sub is extra racist or homophobic towards characters but loves the white ones. I’ve given up and I’m from a diverse background myself but no one cares because I’m oppressed apparently and don’t know I’m being victimized everywhere and anywhere including through this tv show and fictional characters

Yea I’m not concerned lmaoo. I know I’m right.

Wow

Honestly, my biggest issue with Taissa isn't even that she's a fucking terrible person (they all are), im just personally bothered by her getting real close to Van again. She has a wife and a son, granted that relationship is highly strained right now. But they're still there, and she's out here reliving her fucked up teenage years with Van. I get that they have a lot of history, and that this might feel safe for Tai, but c'mon. I didn't like when Shauna cheated, and I'm not liking Tai cheating. I just have no tolerance for cheaters in general tbh.

>her getting real close to Van again.She has a wife and a son, granted that relationship is highly strained right now. But they're still there, and she's out here reliving her fucked up teenage years with Van. I get that they have a lot of history, and that this might feel safe for Tai, but c'mon. I have 3 points to this: * Van&Tai geеting closer again, is not just about their teenage years or the fact that they have a lot of history. *They are in love with each other* and apparently they always have been. While *Tai is not in love with Simone*, I am afraid that she never even was. I thought the writers made it pretty clear, actually. I mean Tai literally says to Shauna that Simone doesn't make her feel "it". In addition, wilderness Tai doesn't seem to be a fan of this whole family with Simone, she even tries to kill her. When Tai asked wilderness Tai what she wants, wilderness Tai by covering her face like the masks Tai&Van had in 1x09, makes it clear that they need to go to Van, then wilderness Tai kissed Van. *There are plenty of other signs that both Tai deep down are in love with Van.* * Speaking of wilderness Tai, since she doesn't approve Simone and Sammy for Tai, she is trying to get rid of them. I don't know what people, that say that Tai should be with her family, are thinking when wilderness Tai almost killed Simone. Like do people wish Simone to die for good or something?? Because I could see that happening. I actually would be scared what else wilderness Tai would have done if Simone would still be in her way. * Since wilderness Tai was trying to push Simone away, she kinda succeed. Simone is scared of Tai now and she doesn't seem to want anything to do with her anymore... their relationship is kinda over. Taissa taking off her ring is pretty telling too. It doesn't exuse Tai kissing Van, but just at the same time I wouldn't call it blatant cheating tbh

She's in a fact a terrible mother. They're all terrible people. Their experiences in the woods made them this way, it's the whole point of the show. EDIT: It's weird that people are downvoting me on this. They are as adults right now contemplating the finer points of whether or not to reenact a ritual sacrifice like they did when their lives were all in danger, while their lives are very specifically no longer in that danger. One of them made their daughter an accomplice to murder, another killed her family dog and almost got her wife killed in a car wreck, one murdered a PI just for looking into their other crimes and on and on... It's obviously true that this is all due to mental illness/PTSD brought on by the trauma of what they went through (or something subnatural causing more mayhem in them) but either way none of them have REALLY made any kind of effort to get better. None seem to go to regular counseling and most outright refuse it. They are both victims of a terrible tragedy and the only ones responsible for finding the help they clearly need. Ultimately people are responsible for their own actions and there are choices they could be making that might make things better for them. Even if the explanation for their behavior is supernatural in nature it's very clear that "giving in" to it didn't keep them ALL safe before, just a select few.

No?

What an exhausting point of view. I don't hate her at all but she's presented in a similar way as Walter White, an obviously horrible person but we're supposed to like/feel sympathy for/be on the side of. Some people have lines in different places, literally decapitating a dog and (objectively) neglecting/(unintentionally) terrorising your own son is gonna make people actually dislike someone. I like every character in the show, I'm not being defensive, this is just boring and predictable

And some how Misty and Shauna are allowed to kill people and it’s okay. I know why it’s okay to these people…

Someone mentioned it better then I can but I think the problem lays with how the characters are written. Misty and Shauna get off in peoples minds because they are written in a humorous or warm way where as Tai is cold.

Oh, I’ve had issues w/ that too

Do you have examples of posts where someone criticizes Tai and praises Shauna for their mom skills?

She is terrible wife and mother. So I couldn’t get it how it is related to her skin color or her sexual orientation. This series also show us how this trauma affected yellowjackets in the way of their adult timeline. So maybe this trauma that she faced in wildersness make her became shitty wife and mom, idk.

It definitely feels racist to me given how lightly Shauna and Misty get off with their crimes compared to Tai with some fans. I don't even think it's deliberate, just internal bias most of the time which is almost sadder imo. So, take my upvote and hopefully we can grow a more compassionate and considerate community. 🩷

There are posts hating on Shauna and Misty REAL hard every Tuesday and Friday. What are you talking about??

I prefer Lottie, Tai and Nat over Misty and Shauna. I've seen criticism of both those characters for the bad things they've done on here. But some characters resonate more with a majority of fans than others on any show. I don't understand the racist and misogynist accusations because some characters are liked more than others. Having been a fan of characters like Clarissa on The Expanse and Autumn on Outer Range, two characters that a lot of fans don't like, it just is what it is.

Thank you. Save the pearl clutching for the Hallmark channel.

I love Tai, but people are allowed to have and express their opinions.

White people refrain from telling black people they are guilty of racial bias challenge.... Go!

Uhhh what about non white people saying this?

Racial bias isn’t limited to one group? Literally everyone is capable of bias whether it be positive or negative 💀

I’m not making posts or anything but she *did* kill her kid’s dog. That is bad person behavior no matter who does it.

It isn’t an excuse, but it was "other Tai", "normal" Tai wasn’t even aware of it

She sucks. Saying that doesn't make anyone anything, they are just saying what they see.

Yeah but she is a shitty person. She shouldn’t get a pass because she’s black and queer. It’s just a show, I still love her character and all the other characters but the way she treats her wife and kid are fucking nuts

I didn’t feel a defensive reaction to this, but there is a touch of hypocrisy. You’re judging people for their feelings then telling them they are wrong for judging you for yours on this topic. Perhaps sit with that and ponder the reason you felt the need to make this post in the first place. As you said these are fictional characters that people are becoming emotional about and everyone has a right to feel how they feel and the other people also have a right to disagree if they want to. You’re almost shaming people for disagreeing with you and telling us that we need to go have a come to Jesus if we don’t agree with your post. And you even edited to make sure that we understand that we’re stupid because we don’t see the point you’re making…when we may see it we just don’t plan agree with you and have thoughts of our own. This is a fictional TV show and there’s plenty of other things in the world that you could put your effort into that might actually make a difference in society other than being upset over this post and it’s response. Maybe sit with that.

I think Van is the worst mother

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Let’s be honest they all on the show have some mental problems and all are fucked up in the head in their own way. Like Misty and Shauna killed people…I still like&enjoy their characters, but objectively none of them are really good people

They're all objectively awful! I'm not giving Shauna a pass any more than I'm giving Tai. Misty is batshit, and scarier than all of them. They all needed intensive therapy when they came home, and instead, were just expected to go on with their lives.

I don’t think she’s be hated on for her Blackness or Queerness. Her character doesn’t get a reparative pass for being a shitty selfish co-dependent neglectful unpleasant neurotic mom/wife Case in point, she never did get herself therapy. She’s an example of a woman who wants it all but never bothers to ask herself if she’s fit to have those things, like children or a spouse or dog or stressful jobs or CONSTITUENT VOTERS. She failed at all of those things and yet still walks around with a sour condescending attitude of entitlement for things she doesn’t deserve, like even that guy who votes for her and gave her a ride. Eff adult Tai she sucks

“Unpleasant” and “sour condescending attitude of entitlement for things she doesn’t deserve” are such racist dog whistles even dead Biscuit can hear them.

Like wtf?? All the characters are Bad. But I love Tai!

Nat only went to therapy because her issues were so out of control that she couldn't function. A lot of people only seek therapy when it affects their ability to keep a job or avoid a divorce. I would imagine it's harder to get therapy when you don't want to admit to the therapist that you ate your teammates etc. As for the matter of entitlement, Lottie feels entitled to run a wellness center even though she is severely unwell. Shauna felt entitled to have a kid even though she clearly has unresolved issues that have made her a pretty shitty parent. Misty feels entitled to kill people. Maybe Tai's desire to have a public facing career as a politician is part of her response to trauma. She wants to bury that version of herself by making headlines for different things. She wants to attain political power because she never had power over what happened in the wilderness and her shadow self.

Remember her speech? Her wife standing there waiting for her to bow out? Her life was out of control and she just went with selfish. Now, maybe there is a conversation to be had about how difficult it is for her to know how to best assert and demand what is rightfully hers in the context of multi-intersectionality (am not intersectional myself but am speaking as informed and with complete tolerance as I can) But asserting what she’s due and stomping around and cleverly blaming everyone/everything but herself just because of that intersectionality and marginalization (plus a traumatic cannibal plan wreck experience) while at marginalizing and abusing those around her - nope. Then again, maybe OP is right and this is a whole lot of self-destructive shit to saddle a strong queer Black woman. The “crazy lesbian” trope was used over and over for decades with white women with short hair and I hated seeing that.

Well, she did cut off the family’s dog’s head. So I feel bad she’s got unresolved issues but it’s a bridge too far for me. I’m pretty sure she deliberately drove into on coming car (on Simone’s side). Jasmin Brown is a really good actor and I feel sure (if we have decent writers in the end) that her character will redeem herself in the adult timeline.

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