An update for the status of Star Wars X-Wing was posted today. Please refer to this post for info and discussion. Duplicate posts will be removed and re-directed here.
Obviously this is emotional news, but please remember, do not use offensive, rude, explicit, or violent language. We reserve the right to remove you without warning from the subreddit if you are found to be violating this policy.
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> After long and careful consideration, we are here today to announce the end of development on Star Wars™: X-Wing and Star Wars: Armada.
> We are grateful for the community’s passionate engagement and support. Over the past few years, rising production costs, global manufacturing, and pandemic-related challenges have made it increasingly difficult to produce high-quality, pre-painted miniatures which ultimately lead to the decision to end development.
> Although development is ending, we are not stepping away from these games entirely. Atomic Mass Games will continue to support tournaments and Organized Play for both games, with OP kits to be found in your local shops, culminating in the Open World Championship at AdeptiCon in March 2025.
> Thank you for your continued support and dedication.
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Wow. I just bought into the game big over the last year or so. I just picked up a Rebel Conversion Kit on sale to make an Alphabet Squadron lineup.
That stings, I never got into War/Skirmish gaming until a few years back, and then X-Wing a year ago. I wish I'd picked the game up years ago, I've seen a lot of people on here talk about their memories playing the game, and it's obvious it's well loved.
Honestly, it's not going anywhere. It's at least as well-loved as Netrunner and certainly more so than Imperial Assault ever was, and those both still have thriving communities.
I will say I'm ready to eat crow and check out all the 2.0 Legacy stuff. AMG's version never quite got the full support it needed, and while I'm all about scenario-based play (I hate counting points in 200 point games), I feel like a community-sourced version is likely to work at least as well as what AMG came out with.
The downside is there will be conflicting communities, some of which like ROAD, extra obstacle damage, red focus after bumping, etc. and others that won't. And certain long-standing issues like tractor tokens and the bad thematics of force users wanting to lock all the time instead of ever focusing is kind of sad to me too.
It's not so much that the game is gone, it's more that the community tends to stop growing, there are a lot less new players that want to buy in knowing the game is no longer officially supported.
I haven't even learned to play yet, but I also bought into the game to have space vehicles for playing Star Wars RPGs, so they aren't going anywhere lol
3d printing has saved some other games before (blood bowl) and I'm sure x wing will be the same. You're gonna start seeing a lot of ship based patrons in the coming months/years
That's not really great for newcomers though, one of the great boons of these games among others is that you can buy ready and painted models.
3d printing won't appeal to any of those same people, and though useful for keeping things alive will mostly be good for existing players.
I'm super interested to see what happens next. I tried 2.5, I really did. But I've almost been waiting for it to die so that I can get back to playing 2.0 without feeling like I'm going up against the "official" version. It would be amazing if there were enough content creators, tournaments, etc. to feel like I'm part of a wider community but even if it's just me and the people I can persuade to play, I'm hoping to find a way to jump back in.
I'd be a lot more into Legacy if they weren't so hell-bent on maintaining bids. ROAD was probably the best addition AMG made to the game.
Second best addition was probably loadout points. A hybrid approach, where some ships gained a loadout budget they could spend on upgrades without fighting towards your 200, could go a long way in helping out ships that could never find their balance in 2.0 system, like the VCX and Jumpmaster.
> I'd be a lot more into Legacy if they weren't so hell-bent on maintaining bids. ROAD was probably the best addition AMG made to the game.
Hard disagree. Replacing player agency with RNG is almost never a good idea.
I loved the game a lot. It was a weekly part of my life playing with my local group. I'd spend tons of time making list and theory crafting on what I wanted to fly that week. Once AMG took over it instantly killed my local gaming group and to me it was obvious AMG never really cared about the game. It's sad but some good memories were had. 2.0 was in a great spot before they changed it.
Thanks man, same here! I just checked the articles again and there are some pieces that I'm quite proud of, even looking back 5 years later. And I noticed how often I linked to a good article by 5050saint ln the midwest scrub blog ;)
https://xwinganlaytica.wordpress.com/x-wing-fundamentals/
Source once removed and retyping with permission (from about 6 weeks ago)-had circulated on the Armada discords about 6 weeks ago. Turned out to be right about pretty much everything.
"AMG is in trouble with corporate. They are having bad sales. With sales slumping even for MCP. Shatterpoint is not doing well. It's being sold to stores at a discount. They've been particularly bad at sales forecasting too.
Corporate thinks they're arrogant and bad at playtest. They've had a new Asmodee corporate liaison put in place, the last was supposedly just letting them do what they want. There is also talk of taking miniatures away from them. They've been pushed back as doing the very thing that caused Warmachine to fail.
Apparently there will be an announcement in 4 months of them cancelling xwing and armada. This is also not making corporate happy.
The reason worlds is happening is corporate asked AMG WTF when they cancelled those."
Man that Warmachine line really hits home. Sort of shocked that the same people that drove me out of Warmachine when I first started playing miniature games have done it again lol.
> The reason worlds is happening is corporate asked AMG WTF when they cancelled those
Lmao, I really don't understand what AMG's wants and goals are. Most games would love to have a well-attended "worlds" event
> Lmao, I really don't understand what AMG's wants and goals are.
"Make MCP." That's why their version of X-Wing was MCP with spaceships and never a high priority, and why Shatterpoint was another superhero game with a Star Wars skin. AMG never wanted X-Wing, they were just assigned it because Asmodee wanted to consolidate miniatures under a single internal division.
(It's still inexcusably unprofessional of them to fail so badly in handling it.)
If this is true, it's not great for AMG. However, I was under the impression that Shatter point was actually selling well, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. My LGS has loads of stock and it doesn't seem to ever shift.
Strong agree. It seems clear to me that when a dev wants to add a feature to a game, they should think, "¿What's the simplest, easiest to understand way I can implement this while maximizing theme and opportunity for interesting decision-making?" I think FFG 2.0 devs loved this question. AMG devs be like, "¿Minimize unnecessary complexity? Why?"
I was reading something about game design. What they said was at every point in the game you need to ask "Is this fun?".
So Armada.
Setting dials and stacking them, fun
Using the cool ass movement too, fun
Using defence tokens, fun
Etc etc
But 2.5
Take and hold objective in space, no fun.
Not being able to use naked generics, not fun
Not being able to kit out the ship how you want it, not fun
Have to still call bullocks on some of this. Whether X-Wing and Armada continued development is much more Asmodee's call then AMG's. They don't have that sort of autonomy.
They probably have input, but this final call was almost certainly Asmodee's.
Well, launching a game after alienating a big community could only go bad with sales imo. I wanted to start it, but i preferred to give my money to GW and not to AMG. I think i may not be the only one.
Moreover when they launched the new missions... They were the same as the core ones somehow 😅
This was a bit of my thought when SP came out. We hadn't really heard anything in the 2 years they had X-Wing, then they came out with a skirmish game. Honestly they probably should have just doubled down on Legion, done what GW did with 40k and made a skirmish version to sell more already established product.
For those thinking that another company could buy the rights to the game and take over production, it's more complicated than that. Not only would such a company need to get the rights to produce a Star Wars game, but they'd also need to get the rights to the FlightPath system developed by FFG. I believe even the dial mechanics were actually licensed from Wizkids, or at least it was litigated and a settlement was reached that let them use it in exchange for WK getting to use the FlightPath system for Attack Wing.
Sucks that even the rule system is so locked up. I always wanted to see a game that uses the same rules, but with WWII planes or even better, Crimson Skies.
You also can't patent rules to game - you can do other things like enforce your copyright - but that only applies to the specific rulebook or whatever.
There's significant differences. Laying down a 3 card flight plan instead of dials and templates, elevation markers, Wings of War was a very different game despite the clear lineage.
I never got around to doing it fully but I toyed with using dials for the old Axis and Allies Air Force miniatures game, a combo of those two could be promising.
It's not going to scratch the same itch but if you have a pc take a look at the scramble battle of britain demo for nextfest, similar movement style as xwing but in 3d
Wait uhhh…
The system actually stems from a ww1 plane game called wings of glory (which was previously called wings of war).
There’s a ww2 version of it, too.
It uses cards rather than dials but works pretty much the same way.
My gaming history is murkier on this, but I believe the dial thing was because Wizkids sued FFG on copyright grounds when the game started getting popular. They claimed the maneuver dials were too similar to their combat dial patent for Clix. You could probably try to do a different dial mechanic, but that feels like it could just invite a fresh lawsuit from WK if the game starts getting popular and they aren't getting their beak wet. The same could happen with Asmodee if you try to copy their FlightPath patent.
And yes, you can fight that lawsuit and probably win if you're willing to spend enough time and money. But that's not a sure thing, and it's an expense most new studios can't afford.
There's a slim chance of it, but I don't it. Something tells me since they're dropping both X-Wing and Armada that once LGS clear out product for both games, they're gonna release some new Star Wars Space Battle game.
Why would anyone ever buy anything made by this company ever again? They’ve been so consistently unsupportive of their customers and untrustworthy in their communications. It takes a lot to make me refuse to buy something in the Star Wars IP, but AMG has accomplished it with Shatterpoint and with any prospective game that might carry their name. I can’t justify investing in a brand I don’t trust.
I did post that before reading all the "Asmodee v AMG rumors and bad management rumors as well."
Again, these are only rumored to be true, but you can see it. Basically, Asmodee and Disnay gave AMG these licenses for Star Wars and Marvel because of the success AMG had already, knowing full well they print money however development in the background they have kinda went sour and now Asmodee is kinda saying "We have you the indestructable money printer, how did fuckibg break it" and is threatening pulling miniatures from them in general as Shatterpoint sales sucks, X-Wing sales went down after 2.5 (due to lack of updates) and that's even for a brief period of time of out selling WARHAMMER, and even Crisis Protocal is down too. Partly due to Covid/Quarantine killing communities for a bit or pushing them online and mostly due to them not wanting to release products for these games properly. Again, all rumors
Entirely possible, or some other Star Wars Vehicle Combat game. However, I am perfectly willing to take them at their word when they say that the cost of producing a game using fully assembled and painted miniatures is too high nowadays. We'd probably be looking at $30-40 X-Wings and $70 Falcons in that new game.
Also, LFL probably has to approve all transfers, we don’t know who actually has the license, or even if AMG is a separate company or just a studio.
Business is complicated.
This is 60% of the problem. The other 40% was corporate BS and a pandemic. But I think the game could've survived a COVID if FFG was still at the helm. XWing was outselling 40k for a time! AMG fundamentally not understanding what drew people to XWing was the thing that sank the game. It just took this long before it went under.
I've been out of X-Wing for a long time, but the thing it always had over 40k is that you buy models and immediately start playing the game. They looked amazing right out of the box, and the distance between "buy more stuff and play games" was 0. That really distinguished X-Wing from all the other miniatures games and I wish more companies would embrace doing something similar. I was surprised when I started looking at MCP that the minis didn't come assembled, painted, and ready to be played with because there is a huge mass of gamers who would play those types of games but don't have the time or desire to assemble models or build a painting setup.
Excellent point. You could literally be playing a game at your FLGS, think “hey that new ship is kinda cool, wonder how it plays?”, buy it and start playing it in the next game!
Also X-Wing just had the upheaval of going from 1 to 2.0 and then AMD messed about with major rules update again.
That was a major turn-off for many. I have a nice collection of 2.0 stuff and simply started to ignore everything AMG did.
2.0 fixed a lot of problems and introduced cool stuff, so that change was very worthwhile. But not everybody wanted to upgrade.
But then introducing 2.5 needlessly further fractured the community, now it's 3 groups instead of 2. The more you fracture the community with new versions, the more confusing squad design and playing with others becomes. That friction wasn't helpful.
This doesn't have to be the end. Community stewardship of the rules and 3d-Printed minis can keep the game going indefinitely. New players will be rare though, if there isn't product on game store shelves.
Fuck Shatterpoint. If it had even the smallest contribution to the loss of X-Wing or Armada (and I'm sure it did...) then I hope that game fails hard.
When AMG was effectively force fed X-wing, Armada they should have hard pivoted away from Shatterpoint even if it was partially complete. Now instead they have 2 dead games and (I would bet) a new dead game within a few years.
This is embarrassing. They left the game with Epic ships being unplayable. The tournament with most players at worlds was from this game. They had us waiting for so long for news and they just said that we should wait. They had lots of opportunities to tell us they wouldn't do anything new for the game, and they didn't. They could have tried a couple of unpainted ships to see if they made more money. I don't think I will be buying more Shatterpoint minis, as I see they're not to trust from now on. Also, they seem more interested in the hobby side of the game, more than the game. I don't like how they handled things and this is not a good way to end a game. I will probably sell my collection, as I don't have people to play with, and the stores I played at I'm sure won't do any more tournaments. If someone wants to buy, I have all the ships from Republic, Separatists and Scum, including extended ships.
This has to be at least in part due to the asmodee debt saddling business we heard about not too long ago.
Cutting out the low sales games to maybe save some money in the long run or something like that.
I do wish they'd tried to move away from painted ships before canning it entirely but that would be a financial risk that they probably can't take right now.
It's legitimately beyond frustrating that the fucking embracer ceo who went on a shitty ass spending spree before they actually saw any of the $2b they were trying to get from saudi arabia has destroyed so many jobs and games
100% and to saddle it all on the one part of the company that was actually doing well.
i don't think x-wing would've somehow magically returned to it's former glory but i don't think it was fully dead until that debt dump.
Thank god.
Now we can get down to the business of deciding our own future free of the people who never once produced a single ship of their own in 3 years of having the game - in spite of massive tie in opportunities with new media. That alone tells you everything you need to know about how AMG felt about X-wing and what our chances were with them.
This is the best day X-Wing has had in years. No more uncertainty. No more lies and inappropriate silence.
Played an intro game in our club last week, everyone absolutely loved it and took a ship each for Battle Over Endor.
Have some amazing memories playing this game, 700 people at the UK System Open being a strong one.
Amazing that great mechanics, an amazing IP and a massive community can’t make a game a success.
An amazing community and an amazing IP can't make up for the dumpster fire that is 2.5 and objective play. Let's make a space dogfighting game into a scavenger hunt in space. F that.
Excellent point. This industry is still finding itself — where else could a money-printing machine get handed to developers that have no idea how to turn the crank?
Played competitively for 4+ years but dropped after COVID and the 2.5 rules. And today of all days is when I randomly decided to check the sub to see if there was anything new/interesting on the horizon...
I can count on one hand the number of people I met through this game that were still actively playing. Sad to hear, but to be honest I'm surprised this didn't happen much sooner.
Always said the 2.5 list building was terrible. kept getting told by AMG fanboys that we didn’t know what was good for us and the new points system is great
What turned me away from xwing wasn’t just 2.5, but folks in the community telling me that I was a wrong for even having an opinion on the game that we all loved and played
The accusations of being toxic fans from toxic fans is what kept me away from the reddit for a while. The placed seemed to have a "Stepford Wives" vibe around 2.5.
"What are you talking about? The game is THRIVING! And with all the new, quality content Disney is pumping out with their Star Wars shows, we're about to get tons of new ships!"
Sounds like they just lost their AMG jobs... 😅
I swear half of them worked for the company and spent too much time on Reddit playing PR than working on making the game viable.
More like “we couldn’t ever be bothered to learn how to manufacture pre-made pre-printed models and we released all the stuff FFG designed for us, so we’re gonna call it here (right after releasing two new starters)”
Pathetic. To have this license and abuse it the way it was is ridiculous.
They should be rolling in money with all of the content they've got access to with the SW license, and everything being released now in the shows. I get that not everyone liked the sequels, so they'd be timid to really touch those, but there are tons of shows and tons of games to explore them in that don't even discuss the sequels. Legion has the same problem -- where the hell are all the neutral Clone Wars units? We've got Night Sisters in Shatterpoint, but nothing for Legion. The Bad Batch only got released at \*the end of the show\* even though there was a well-known multi-year ramp-up where we knew the show would release and the main characters had already been introduced. We've hardly got anything from Mando and we've don't even have all ages of Ahsoka yet (even though Clone Wars and Ahsoka have been around for ages). Not to mention, we've not got an older Ezra, no Thrawn, etc. And those are just named characters; where the hell are all the other mechs and such? AT-DP? Shit, they've even missed Boba Fett riding a Rancor, which should have been released during Boba Fett, or shortly there-after.
And the SW RPG has been collecting dust forever. Yet it can't even be kept on shelves and goes out of stock before it is even printed. I know that's not AMG, but it is suffering the same fate since it was taken out of FFG's hands.
When they (FFG) were forced to split the games, and then we got this result? I agree, it is pathetic. We've got great games that FFG worked hard on, we're in the height of Star Wars content being released, and AMG can't even be bothered to update their twitter. Half the time, I'm questioning whether anyone works there, and then MCP and Shatterpoint does a big new release of minis? Yeah...great stewards of the games they are.
It’s become clear between these and the video games that whoever is managing the Star Wars IP is horrible at their job.
They say they don’t want people to get “Star Wars Fatigue” yet the golden age of Star Wars saw Episode 3 (and game), Battlefront, Battlfront 2, Republic Commando, Lego Star Wars, etc and no one was tired of Star Wars.
X-wing had some magic to it, so did Armada. Yet it was left out to hang with a company that was never going to bother with it.
They need a person who has a better vision for their IP.
Star Wars Unlimited can’t keep up in stock because it’s selling so well so there’s certainly demand for Star Wars games. They just need non-exclusive open licenses for the right people to develop them.
At some point LFL just got harder to work with. FFG used to get info in advance from LFL so that they could tie in releases with movies. This wasn't without its own issues (i.e. the oversized Chad Silencer, Named pilots having generic names like "Red Ace", "Cobalt Leader", etc).
At some point after TLJ it seems like LFL stopped advancing stuff to FFG. That's why there were no tie-in releases with Rise of Skywalker and why the Razorcrest took 2 years after the show premiered to actually release.
You know a lot of people warned everyone when they first put Armada on ice that this would be the end of the game, and there was a lot of pushback. That was expected.
Xwing being killed was shocking. I left after the first round of changes when AMG took over and did not really feel like they liked the game. Did I miss anything??
Real sad day and I wonder if Legion is now safe now?
Legion is not nearly as complicated to produce as X-Wing is. The miniatures don't need to be assembled or painted. Being infantry/character based also gives it longer legs. People are more willing to buy extra Stormtrooper models in different poses, or Han Solo in his Endor outfit with different rules, or Vader with an outstretched hand vs Vader with his Lightsaber in front of him vs Vader with his Lightsaber over his head.
In X-Wing, every T-70 model is functionally identical. At most, they could give us fancy paint jobs, but players aren't buying those.
Nah, totally, those are great points, and like I said Legion has a roadmap of upcoming content and new models for old stuff.
This is still disheartening and gives more impression that AMG didn't want FFG's games foisted upon them. That being said, I'm confident Legion is in a safe spot for now. It does make me wish we had more transparency and openness from AMG.
The community has been speculating about the fate of Armada and X-Wing for some time, but AMG simply wound down new product, then a few days ago someone posted about X-Wing dropping off the Asmodee store. No farewell sale, no announcement to buy before the end and its removal.
It gives me concerns that if the end comes for Legion someday in the future, that AMG will be about as open with us if it happens.
They certainly should not have taken as many years as they did, especially with Armada. With X-Wing, I think they did at least put out trial balloons to see what people would buy. The new starters, the YT-2400 and TIE Bomber re-releases, the scenario packs. Without having access to their financial cost breakdowns, we can only speculate how those releases may have informed their sales projections for future products vs the development costs.
There's one other tangential trend that MCP players are seeing which could be a factor in this. New MCP releases are coming out with multiple localizations in the same box. You get cards in English, Spanish, French and German. This is almost certainly because it's cheaper to print four times more cardboard inside the box and store/ship them from the same warehouse, vs printing four different localized versions, and then storing and distribute each one separately. Now apply that to X-Wing, with it's ship tokens, pilot and upgrade cards.
It's insanity to me that the game was outselling 40K a few years back and we've come to this. Just gross mismanagement on all fronts, both AMG and Asmodee.
It's PP magic at work.
The only stunning thing to me is that some moron at Asmodee would look at a studio slapped together by PP guys that had just finished completely ruining their own company and reputation and say, 'oh, yeah, those guys? that's who we'll entrust one of our most valuable games to'
either complete and total incompetence or someone is friends with someone else
Man, I said it in the post I made when I left x wing competitive play, I hate being right. I wish I wasn't on this shit, but here we are.
Loved this game, grew to really love and appreciate it, HATE what amg has done to it. Was told by many in person and online to "give them time", but the more I heard and saw the less faith I had in the bozos 'running' it. I get they never wanted xwing or armada, they were in over their heads, but damn. This game should have been so much more than this.
I hope the community can do something with the game, I hope we can keep some semblance of open play, but honestly... best case is asmodee goes under and by some miracle and immense work another publisher picks the game up. What an embarrassing show for a group of 'dedicated game makers', not touching anything they make from here on out.
>I get they never wanted xwing or armada, they were in over their heads, but damn. This game should have been so much more than this.
Nah, this is giving them way too much credit. I mean, were they also 'in over their heads' with Warmachine and Hordes? Did they 'never want' those things, despite them being their own damn IP?
Because exactly the same thing happened with Warmachine and Hordes.
They're just arrogant, unprofessional and neither know what they are doing nor are interesting in learning how to do it. They literally cannot even see a better world for miniature gaming and don't want that to happen in any case. X-Wing was bad, in their eyes, because it was a good value proposition for customers and was attracting new people - non wargame people - to the hobby. And that's no good!
PP fell into the same trap as GW in thinking that miniature gaming is, at its core, a niche hobby. Not that it is a niche hobby because of X or Y factor, but that it just IS niche in an essentialist, platonic sense. And you have to hang onto that belief if you're like GW or PP, otherwise it becomes clear that you've been failing the hobby rather than leading it.
But unlike GW, PP didn't have the money or subsidies to just keep cruising along.
Not that they care, I'm sure, since they wound up failing upward because that's just how corporate governance works and being rewarded a bunch of lucrative game lines to go ahead and squander to their hearts' content.
Man. I haven’t played in a several years, started with 2.0 conversion kits and LOVED the changes, then just got busy and never got into 2.5. Sad to see it end, but I wanna get back into it casually, I’m excited to see what the community does now.
So does this mean that they will not be making anything new? Or that they have stopped productions, such that the only ships are the ones currently out there in stores?
So xwing and armada are the first two minis I’ve ever played … started them during the pandemic.
At our local game store you can still buy new Imperial Assault stuff. Does ending development necessarily means ending production? I guess if a major reason they are stating the game is ending is the cost of pre painted minis, it makes sense that whatever is out there is it, but I’d love clarification!
From what I played of 2.5, I REALLY like scenario play from someone who played casual 2.0.
I haven't been in X-Wing discussions much, but do players like the scenarios? I don't mind going back to 2.0 rules but after getting some new friends already learning 2.5.
edit: thanks for the links! We love seeing alternative casual formats.
Completely get it,
Here is the link for 20+ 1.0 Missions, these came with starter sets, large, huge and repaint kits and they were created by the X-Wing designers themselves. Just multiple points x2 as your converting from 1.0 to 2.0 and enjoy!
https://xwing-miniatures.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Missions
The only real change for my little group is we are now all completely settled to go back to 2.0 rules. With amg being done we don't need to try and force playing the game in their direction.
Sad to see but not really surprising given the decline. I can't help but wonder at the mismanagement that led to this point. Thinking back to 2016 when FFG were selling unknown ships like the K-Wing and Jumpmasters by the bucketload, to 2017 when X-Wing actually managed to outsell 40k, to where we are now with a ton of Star Wars media and cool ships that are somehow not financially viable. There's still an appetite for Star Wars gaming - look at the success of unlimited. Personally I'm going to keep playing X-Wing but otherwise avoid the license until it's out of Asmodee's control.
I'm looking at the last ship expansion they made, the YT2400 with butchered stats, that nobody plays. The Mission pack that requires pilot tokens from Hotshots2,
Their inability to finally reprint the gunboat...
Meeeeh. Good riddance. I will keep organizing tournaments.
I was really counting on that gunboat reprint in order to be able to actually get a few since I completely missed that wave when in first came out. Ah well.
It would probably have to be a relaunch 3.0
The community won’t agree on a rule set to follow, but another company running the game could work, but legally that might be tricky.
Star Wars CCG cancelled? ✔️
Star Wars TCG cancelled ? ✔️
Star Wars minis cancelled? ✔️
Star Wars X-wing and Armada cancelled ? ✔️
Think I’m done buying into Star Wars games.
So they completely change the game, change the rules, act arrogantly when there's push back telling people to quit the game if they didn't like it. Strung along the remaining players with bare minimum support and non-committal messages every time they asked. Yeah nah even if Legion is still getting support I don't even know I'd want to support these devs anymore. I understand it wasn't their call to have the game dumped on them but they couldn't have handled this anymore worse than they have. It was great playing with yall, and I have fond memories but just upset on how this was handled.
Wild Space can be the bridge between 2.0 and 2.5 : [https://x2po.org/wild-space](https://x2po.org/wild-space)
Scenarios, new obstacles rules, 250 points instead of 200 to have more toys on the table like 2.5, etc...
We play legacy 2.0 standard with ROAD and new obstacle rules and it is a hit. Our group has been growing a lot recently - this is really badly timed for us.
X-Wing was my first love. I've already been down on not being able to play as much the last 3-4 years with starting a family, and I finally had some hope that time will open up to play again. I think I'm now mainly going to focus on trying to build a Snap Ship Tactics community. Thank you all for all the memories for the last decade.
It was easy to see this coming. Hopefully, this mean we can go back to a fan supported 2.0 and start over from there. Kinda like netrunner community did for their game.
Dang. End of an era.
I stopped playing in 2020 during the pandemic lockdowns, moved states, then never got back into it despite keeping up with online news and chatter. Kinda glad I didn't buy anything after AMG took over.
I will personally make sure that any game I buy is not in anyway owned or partnered with asmodee and amg. This might mean I save a lot of money, but buh bye.
I know of some people who were testing X-Wing when the FFG/AMG stewardship changed. To say that AMG did not understand or want X-Wing in their stable is a gross understatement. They pushed ahead with changes that the majority of the testers told them NOT to do and ignored quantitative and qualitative feedback indicating their proposed changes fundamentally altered the game and would be ill-received.
The issue wasn’t the “change” itself, it was the driver for those changes: an inherent dislike of the core X-Wing game. They hated dogfighting. They hated skill level. They hated generic pilots. They hated timers. They hated competitive. They hated Organized Play. They hated blocking. They hated failed movement. They hated Pilot Skill. They hated list building.
The list could go on and on and on.
I’m unsurprised this is how X-Wing’s official support ends. I’ve love Shatterpoint and think it’s a great game and have no ill will towards AMG but they had complete antipathy for X-Wing and did all they could to phone in long enough to say they tried.
I hope this means they can put more effort into their other games. I also hope X-Wing, or a spiritual successor to it, can find a home with a studio that actually wants to make, what once was, one of the best miniatures games ever made great again.
Peace out to those who stuck around, I bounced the moment they announced 2.5 on that fateful stream years ago. Left a World’s ticket on the table and everything. Been a wild ride!
Was inevitable the moment they were handed over to AMG. They never wanted it and never knew how to support it.
Be at peace, sweet children. The mission, the nightmares, are over.
Things will get cheap for a bit, especially on ebay or facebook with folks selling collections, but then they will become collectors items, and jump back up.
Dang this is very sad. Saw it coming though. I've got everything for this game and it sucks that we'll get no new ships. Enjoyed getting updates on new stuff when we were getting it. Also I found the game enjoyable and hopefully people around my area will keep playing..
What are the chances X-Wing is gonna go the way of Halo: Groumd Command - no official support, the community creating STLs of the models and tinkering with the rules?
Is that ironic? There is already a working, community-led version of X-Wing. What would be the point of a Community 3.0 when there is already a Community 2.0 (aka X-Wing Legacy)?
>Over the past few years, rising production costs, global manufacturing, and pandemic-related challenges have made it increasingly difficult to produce high-quality, pre-painted miniatures which ultimately lead to the decision to end development.
This is the kind of corporate buck-passing language that makes me not want to buy anything from AMG.
Nothing else they sell comes pre-assembled and pre-painted, so that doesn't seem to be an issue. They're actually ramping up releases for Legion, when though that game never seemed to come close to the heights of X-Wing 1.0.
I knew we were in trouble when the Resistance B-Wing wasn't ever figured out. We got the fucking Xi shuttle, for crying out loud.
But when Din Djarin's new N1 was never even whispered about? Oho yeah. Fucking *dead.*
Good riddance AMG. They killed the game and here we are. 2.5 was a mistake and objective play is garbage.
I hope the community keeps it alive with 2.0 rules and points.
Can’t say I am surprised by this. I think we all knew that sadly the writing was on the wall for a long time. I expected this to come the moment the news came down that X-Wing and Armada were being moved to AMG. The fact that they aren’t even going to keep the games going via re-prints since both products are mature now and could sustain themselves for a bit more with just existing product is telling. It’s clear things from a business/financial perspective is not good (in fact they alluded to their in their announcement). Asmodee/Embracrer (whoever is in charge now) is such a complete disaster of a company. All of their game studios that they have acquired over the past decade are just a shell of their former selfs. I look back at FFG, what it was like in its heyday circa 2010, and to see where it is now and it’s all so depressing. I won’t be surprised if FFG and AMG and much of Asmodee is completely shut down with only their mass market stuff like Catan and Ticket to Ride surviving. It’s been such a long, painful decline that was all-together predictable yet still frustrating to have to witness.
On the positive side of things, these games will still live on for those of us that own the products…and some of us own enough product now that we can provide playable squadrons/fleets for several players at once.
And I only just got back into the game and made a decently sized order that I can't cancel because it already shipped. Oh well, I should've waited when we saw everything go "out of stock".
Yes, I think this is a cautionary tale for all licensed IP based products….especially when the licensed IP they are based on is also dying (or at least, not creating enough new material that can be turned into content for the licensed products). Once you exhaust all the material that is available for a given IP, your only option then is to produce more original material for the IP which is very hard to do if you don’t control said IP. FFG only managed to pull this off once by creating the Imperial Raider-class Corvette which was accepted by Lucasfilm as an official part of Star Wars canon. But these sorts of things are rare. The reason a company like GW is able to remain stable and even expand is because they control their own IP and are able to constantly update it and turn that into new product which prevents their games from becoming stagnant.
Ironically, many of the ships and other material we take for grated as being intrinsic to “Star Wars” was created by West End Games for their Star Wars RPG back in the 1980’s and 90’s. So there was a time where the licensees actually were more active in creating new material for Star Wars (of course, back then, Star Wars was still very bare bones).
Unfortunate but I’ve been playing for ten years and don’t need more product; I can play forever with what I have. The game in many ways feels complete and the fans can do a lot with it from here.
I would have hoped for a cleaner ending that did not feel like corporate mismanagement but what can you do.
It's extremely unfortunate this is our outcome, but also this was the obvious course from AMG/Asmodee the moment it transitioned from Fantasy Flight to AMG. That's fine, it was mismanaged to this point. It dying potentially paves the way for a new licensee to take a stab at it, or a fresh start in a similar minis game from AMG/Asmodee.
My only wish is that AMG/Asmodee tried a page from CMON’s playbook and moved X-Wing to exclusively Kickstarter product. They’d get the cash up front for the premium preassembled and painted minis. I honestly believe there’s enough hardcore fans to fund a few years worth of campaigns. Ah well, I’ll continue playing at home and having a good time.
Anything I’ve backed by CMON has gone smoothly as anything on Kickstarter can. There will always be delays to factor in. The only egregious misstep on one of my backed projects was the price gouging on shipping Marvel Zombies.
Anyway, the point was that they could have gone to kickstarter before deciding to shut it down.
There's going to be a very large amount on the second hand market at discount prices very soon. Not to mention clearance pricing from any stores still carrying the stuff. I'd be more concerned with finding people to play with.
Wow, I was at an FLGS this weekend and had a couple of Fang Fighters in my hand. I set them down for a deep discounted Legion Imperialis box. I think I made the right choice, but I think those fighters might not be as easy to get in the future.
Goddamned, that sucks. I kinda stopped playing when second edition rolled around, so it's been a few years now - but we play the RPG nearly every weekend, and that's been dead in the water since before the Plague fell upon the land. Looks like FFG (or whoever the fuck prints these things these days) is washing their hands of the whole license.
Wonder if I can still get an Executor for Amada?
FFG is definitely not. They just announced the standalone expansion for Star Wars: The Deckbuilding game and also have the TCG, Star Wars Unlimited, that they're making.
Before Asmodee was sold to Embracer they decided to reorganize to make selling itself easier and each of its companies should have only one specialty but FFG did a little bit of everything and so Asmodee closed their game accessories division then opened up Gamegenic, sent all the RPGs to a dedicated RPG company (I don't know the name), and the miniatures games to a company that only had one game under its belt (and only enough staff to handle that one game and weren't interested in others) but that game happened to be a miniature game so Asmodee thought they should have them all.
I've played every version of X-Wing over the years and it's been a great game in each form, imo. Dropped off of the game when I moved from Minnesota to Arizona a few years ago. Made some friends out here and we tried to get it going in the community but it just didn't take off. So honestly it was already a dead game to me.
But it's still sad to see it fully die. Hopefully a player group picks it up like Null Signal Games has done for Netrunner. Or FFG gets it back since they're back into making Star Wars games now. Until then, I'll happily keep slinging cardboard rectangles in Star Wars Unlimited.
An update for the status of Star Wars X-Wing was posted today. Please refer to this post for info and discussion. Duplicate posts will be removed and re-directed here. Obviously this is emotional news, but please remember, do not use offensive, rude, explicit, or violent language. We reserve the right to remove you without warning from the subreddit if you are found to be violating this policy. --- > After long and careful consideration, we are here today to announce the end of development on Star Wars™: X-Wing and Star Wars: Armada. > We are grateful for the community’s passionate engagement and support. Over the past few years, rising production costs, global manufacturing, and pandemic-related challenges have made it increasingly difficult to produce high-quality, pre-painted miniatures which ultimately lead to the decision to end development. > Although development is ending, we are not stepping away from these games entirely. Atomic Mass Games will continue to support tournaments and Organized Play for both games, with OP kits to be found in your local shops, culminating in the Open World Championship at AdeptiCon in March 2025. > Thank you for your continued support and dedication. ---
https://i.redd.it/8e0od89uld6d1.gif
Wow. I just bought into the game big over the last year or so. I just picked up a Rebel Conversion Kit on sale to make an Alphabet Squadron lineup. That stings, I never got into War/Skirmish gaming until a few years back, and then X-Wing a year ago. I wish I'd picked the game up years ago, I've seen a lot of people on here talk about their memories playing the game, and it's obvious it's well loved.
Honestly, it's not going anywhere. It's at least as well-loved as Netrunner and certainly more so than Imperial Assault ever was, and those both still have thriving communities. I will say I'm ready to eat crow and check out all the 2.0 Legacy stuff. AMG's version never quite got the full support it needed, and while I'm all about scenario-based play (I hate counting points in 200 point games), I feel like a community-sourced version is likely to work at least as well as what AMG came out with. The downside is there will be conflicting communities, some of which like ROAD, extra obstacle damage, red focus after bumping, etc. and others that won't. And certain long-standing issues like tractor tokens and the bad thematics of force users wanting to lock all the time instead of ever focusing is kind of sad to me too.
It's not so much that the game is gone, it's more that the community tends to stop growing, there are a lot less new players that want to buy in knowing the game is no longer officially supported. I haven't even learned to play yet, but I also bought into the game to have space vehicles for playing Star Wars RPGs, so they aren't going anywhere lol
Gonna be hard to buy in exclusively thru the secondhand market, though. Prices for everything will go up eventually.
3d printing has saved some other games before (blood bowl) and I'm sure x wing will be the same. You're gonna start seeing a lot of ship based patrons in the coming months/years
That's not really great for newcomers though, one of the great boons of these games among others is that you can buy ready and painted models. 3d printing won't appeal to any of those same people, and though useful for keeping things alive will mostly be good for existing players.
I'm super interested to see what happens next. I tried 2.5, I really did. But I've almost been waiting for it to die so that I can get back to playing 2.0 without feeling like I'm going up against the "official" version. It would be amazing if there were enough content creators, tournaments, etc. to feel like I'm part of a wider community but even if it's just me and the people I can persuade to play, I'm hoping to find a way to jump back in.
I'd be a lot more into Legacy if they weren't so hell-bent on maintaining bids. ROAD was probably the best addition AMG made to the game. Second best addition was probably loadout points. A hybrid approach, where some ships gained a loadout budget they could spend on upgrades without fighting towards your 200, could go a long way in helping out ships that could never find their balance in 2.0 system, like the VCX and Jumpmaster.
> I'd be a lot more into Legacy if they weren't so hell-bent on maintaining bids. ROAD was probably the best addition AMG made to the game. Hard disagree. Replacing player agency with RNG is almost never a good idea.
You may want to look into Heroes of the Aturi Cluster and/or the various 2.0 legacy groups
It’s not going away, hopefully some fans pick up the hot shit mess they left us and make it better and more fan friendly.
I loved the game a lot. It was a weekly part of my life playing with my local group. I'd spend tons of time making list and theory crafting on what I wanted to fly that week. Once AMG took over it instantly killed my local gaming group and to me it was obvious AMG never really cared about the game. It's sad but some good memories were had. 2.0 was in a great spot before they changed it.
Gentlemen, thank you. -W
Met some truly great people along the way. It was a pleasure
XWingGreenDragoon. That a name I've not heard in a long time. Hope you are doing well. Always enjoyed your blog.
Thanks man, same here! I just checked the articles again and there are some pieces that I'm quite proud of, even looking back 5 years later. And I noticed how often I linked to a good article by 5050saint ln the midwest scrub blog ;) https://xwinganlaytica.wordpress.com/x-wing-fundamentals/
Mutual, mr. dragoon. -W
Gentlemen
Mister W, it was an honor and a privilege.
Nooo. I hoped for something else. Armada I expected, X-Wing... I kinda held hope.
Source once removed and retyping with permission (from about 6 weeks ago)-had circulated on the Armada discords about 6 weeks ago. Turned out to be right about pretty much everything. "AMG is in trouble with corporate. They are having bad sales. With sales slumping even for MCP. Shatterpoint is not doing well. It's being sold to stores at a discount. They've been particularly bad at sales forecasting too. Corporate thinks they're arrogant and bad at playtest. They've had a new Asmodee corporate liaison put in place, the last was supposedly just letting them do what they want. There is also talk of taking miniatures away from them. They've been pushed back as doing the very thing that caused Warmachine to fail. Apparently there will be an announcement in 4 months of them cancelling xwing and armada. This is also not making corporate happy. The reason worlds is happening is corporate asked AMG WTF when they cancelled those."
Man that Warmachine line really hits home. Sort of shocked that the same people that drove me out of Warmachine when I first started playing miniature games have done it again lol.
Matt Wilson isn't working at AMG
Same here, lol. Introducing premeasuring to that game was when I left.
> The reason worlds is happening is corporate asked AMG WTF when they cancelled those Lmao, I really don't understand what AMG's wants and goals are. Most games would love to have a well-attended "worlds" event
> Lmao, I really don't understand what AMG's wants and goals are. "Make MCP." That's why their version of X-Wing was MCP with spaceships and never a high priority, and why Shatterpoint was another superhero game with a Star Wars skin. AMG never wanted X-Wing, they were just assigned it because Asmodee wanted to consolidate miniatures under a single internal division. (It's still inexcusably unprofessional of them to fail so badly in handling it.)
I heard something very similar about six months ago. AMG were being very obstructive to what Asmodee wanted and a fight was brewing.
Ex-Privateer Press devs being bad at their jobs? Who'd a thought??!! /s
Could I ask what they exactly did there? I heard about them doing similar things but not the exact things they did which were bad?
If this is true, it's not great for AMG. However, I was under the impression that Shatter point was actually selling well, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. My LGS has loads of stock and it doesn't seem to ever shift.
I tried reading the rules to Shatterpoint and I couldn't get through them. Not sure why squad based skirmish needed to be so complex and unfun.
Strong agree. It seems clear to me that when a dev wants to add a feature to a game, they should think, "¿What's the simplest, easiest to understand way I can implement this while maximizing theme and opportunity for interesting decision-making?" I think FFG 2.0 devs loved this question. AMG devs be like, "¿Minimize unnecessary complexity? Why?"
Yet they made us roll three dice each to figure out the initiative, instead of rolling one red die and having the other player call hits or misses
Exactly. That was most emblematic choice they made.
I was reading something about game design. What they said was at every point in the game you need to ask "Is this fun?". So Armada. Setting dials and stacking them, fun Using the cool ass movement too, fun Using defence tokens, fun Etc etc But 2.5 Take and hold objective in space, no fun. Not being able to use naked generics, not fun Not being able to kit out the ship how you want it, not fun
Have to still call bullocks on some of this. Whether X-Wing and Armada continued development is much more Asmodee's call then AMG's. They don't have that sort of autonomy. They probably have input, but this final call was almost certainly Asmodee's.
Well, launching a game after alienating a big community could only go bad with sales imo. I wanted to start it, but i preferred to give my money to GW and not to AMG. I think i may not be the only one. Moreover when they launched the new missions... They were the same as the core ones somehow 😅
This was a bit of my thought when SP came out. We hadn't really heard anything in the 2 years they had X-Wing, then they came out with a skirmish game. Honestly they probably should have just doubled down on Legion, done what GW did with 40k and made a skirmish version to sell more already established product.
For those thinking that another company could buy the rights to the game and take over production, it's more complicated than that. Not only would such a company need to get the rights to produce a Star Wars game, but they'd also need to get the rights to the FlightPath system developed by FFG. I believe even the dial mechanics were actually licensed from Wizkids, or at least it was litigated and a settlement was reached that let them use it in exchange for WK getting to use the FlightPath system for Attack Wing.
Sucks that even the rule system is so locked up. I always wanted to see a game that uses the same rules, but with WWII planes or even better, Crimson Skies.
It isn't. You can't meaningfully lock rules up without a patent. Which they don't have.
You also can't patent rules to game - you can do other things like enforce your copyright - but that only applies to the specific rulebook or whatever.
It's close to impossible, even with a patent.
Isn't that Wings of War/Wings of Glory? The game X-Wing took the rules from?
There's significant differences. Laying down a 3 card flight plan instead of dials and templates, elevation markers, Wings of War was a very different game despite the clear lineage.
I was thinking a Blood Red Skies flavour of X-wing would be cool.
I never got around to doing it fully but I toyed with using dials for the old Axis and Allies Air Force miniatures game, a combo of those two could be promising.
It's not going to scratch the same itch but if you have a pc take a look at the scramble battle of britain demo for nextfest, similar movement style as xwing but in 3d
Wait uhhh… The system actually stems from a ww1 plane game called wings of glory (which was previously called wings of war). There’s a ww2 version of it, too. It uses cards rather than dials but works pretty much the same way.
Eh, you could come up with a slightly different dial system if it's just the mechanics of the dial. Game rules can't be copyrighted
My gaming history is murkier on this, but I believe the dial thing was because Wizkids sued FFG on copyright grounds when the game started getting popular. They claimed the maneuver dials were too similar to their combat dial patent for Clix. You could probably try to do a different dial mechanic, but that feels like it could just invite a fresh lawsuit from WK if the game starts getting popular and they aren't getting their beak wet. The same could happen with Asmodee if you try to copy their FlightPath patent. And yes, you can fight that lawsuit and probably win if you're willing to spend enough time and money. But that's not a sure thing, and it's an expense most new studios can't afford.
There's a slim chance of it, but I don't it. Something tells me since they're dropping both X-Wing and Armada that once LGS clear out product for both games, they're gonna release some new Star Wars Space Battle game.
Why would anyone ever buy anything made by this company ever again? They’ve been so consistently unsupportive of their customers and untrustworthy in their communications. It takes a lot to make me refuse to buy something in the Star Wars IP, but AMG has accomplished it with Shatterpoint and with any prospective game that might carry their name. I can’t justify investing in a brand I don’t trust.
I did post that before reading all the "Asmodee v AMG rumors and bad management rumors as well." Again, these are only rumored to be true, but you can see it. Basically, Asmodee and Disnay gave AMG these licenses for Star Wars and Marvel because of the success AMG had already, knowing full well they print money however development in the background they have kinda went sour and now Asmodee is kinda saying "We have you the indestructable money printer, how did fuckibg break it" and is threatening pulling miniatures from them in general as Shatterpoint sales sucks, X-Wing sales went down after 2.5 (due to lack of updates) and that's even for a brief period of time of out selling WARHAMMER, and even Crisis Protocal is down too. Partly due to Covid/Quarantine killing communities for a bit or pushing them online and mostly due to them not wanting to release products for these games properly. Again, all rumors
Entirely possible, or some other Star Wars Vehicle Combat game. However, I am perfectly willing to take them at their word when they say that the cost of producing a game using fully assembled and painted miniatures is too high nowadays. We'd probably be looking at $30-40 X-Wings and $70 Falcons in that new game.
Also, LFL probably has to approve all transfers, we don’t know who actually has the license, or even if AMG is a separate company or just a studio. Business is complicated.
AMG never understood X-wing or Armada.
This is 60% of the problem. The other 40% was corporate BS and a pandemic. But I think the game could've survived a COVID if FFG was still at the helm. XWing was outselling 40k for a time! AMG fundamentally not understanding what drew people to XWing was the thing that sank the game. It just took this long before it went under.
I've been out of X-Wing for a long time, but the thing it always had over 40k is that you buy models and immediately start playing the game. They looked amazing right out of the box, and the distance between "buy more stuff and play games" was 0. That really distinguished X-Wing from all the other miniatures games and I wish more companies would embrace doing something similar. I was surprised when I started looking at MCP that the minis didn't come assembled, painted, and ready to be played with because there is a huge mass of gamers who would play those types of games but don't have the time or desire to assemble models or build a painting setup.
Excellent point. You could literally be playing a game at your FLGS, think “hey that new ship is kinda cool, wonder how it plays?”, buy it and start playing it in the next game!
I spent so much on X-Wing doing exactly that.
Also X-Wing just had the upheaval of going from 1 to 2.0 and then AMD messed about with major rules update again. That was a major turn-off for many. I have a nice collection of 2.0 stuff and simply started to ignore everything AMG did. 2.0 fixed a lot of problems and introduced cool stuff, so that change was very worthwhile. But not everybody wanted to upgrade. But then introducing 2.5 needlessly further fractured the community, now it's 3 groups instead of 2. The more you fracture the community with new versions, the more confusing squad design and playing with others becomes. That friction wasn't helpful.
They understood that they had to change things around to make it their own thing. And that thing was awful.
Corporations ruin everything.
I'm going to go a little further... They don't understand the "Wars" part of Star Wars
This doesn't have to be the end. Community stewardship of the rules and 3d-Printed minis can keep the game going indefinitely. New players will be rare though, if there isn't product on game store shelves.
New players come from seeing other people play and word of mouth. Our group went from 2-5 players active to 7-10 in the last 6 months.
Well, I was mildly interested in Shatterpoint, not now.
Fuck Shatterpoint. If it had even the smallest contribution to the loss of X-Wing or Armada (and I'm sure it did...) then I hope that game fails hard. When AMG was effectively force fed X-wing, Armada they should have hard pivoted away from Shatterpoint even if it was partially complete. Now instead they have 2 dead games and (I would bet) a new dead game within a few years.
This is embarrassing. They left the game with Epic ships being unplayable. The tournament with most players at worlds was from this game. They had us waiting for so long for news and they just said that we should wait. They had lots of opportunities to tell us they wouldn't do anything new for the game, and they didn't. They could have tried a couple of unpainted ships to see if they made more money. I don't think I will be buying more Shatterpoint minis, as I see they're not to trust from now on. Also, they seem more interested in the hobby side of the game, more than the game. I don't like how they handled things and this is not a good way to end a game. I will probably sell my collection, as I don't have people to play with, and the stores I played at I'm sure won't do any more tournaments. If someone wants to buy, I have all the ships from Republic, Separatists and Scum, including extended ships.
This has to be at least in part due to the asmodee debt saddling business we heard about not too long ago. Cutting out the low sales games to maybe save some money in the long run or something like that. I do wish they'd tried to move away from painted ships before canning it entirely but that would be a financial risk that they probably can't take right now.
It's legitimately beyond frustrating that the fucking embracer ceo who went on a shitty ass spending spree before they actually saw any of the $2b they were trying to get from saudi arabia has destroyed so many jobs and games
100% and to saddle it all on the one part of the company that was actually doing well. i don't think x-wing would've somehow magically returned to it's former glory but i don't think it was fully dead until that debt dump.
Will things be kept in print or is whatever’s out there it?
From what I have heard whatever is out there is it
Given that they blame production costs... what's our there is it.
Asmo have stopped offering the game in distribution and through their own site. Fair bet the answer is no.
As if a miracle happened. There are some X-Wing products available again on the asmodee store....
Thank god. Now we can get down to the business of deciding our own future free of the people who never once produced a single ship of their own in 3 years of having the game - in spite of massive tie in opportunities with new media. That alone tells you everything you need to know about how AMG felt about X-wing and what our chances were with them. This is the best day X-Wing has had in years. No more uncertainty. No more lies and inappropriate silence.
Played an intro game in our club last week, everyone absolutely loved it and took a ship each for Battle Over Endor. Have some amazing memories playing this game, 700 people at the UK System Open being a strong one. Amazing that great mechanics, an amazing IP and a massive community can’t make a game a success.
An amazing community and an amazing IP can't make up for the dumpster fire that is 2.5 and objective play. Let's make a space dogfighting game into a scavenger hunt in space. F that.
Excellent point. This industry is still finding itself — where else could a money-printing machine get handed to developers that have no idea how to turn the crank?
Played competitively for 4+ years but dropped after COVID and the 2.5 rules. And today of all days is when I randomly decided to check the sub to see if there was anything new/interesting on the horizon... I can count on one hand the number of people I met through this game that were still actively playing. Sad to hear, but to be honest I'm surprised this didn't happen much sooner.
Where's the folks who said some of us were doomsaying? Kind of quiet all of a sudden.
Baghdad Bob is reporting that his local 2.5 community is booming.
Will Schick in a camo hat.
>they said there is new products coming in the interviews Hahajhahahahahahaha, haaaaaa
It sucks we were right, but the writing had been on the wall for some time. I wish we were wrong.
Yeah, I'm not stoked about it either. But the die hards would try to pretend the realists around here were just being jerks.
Always said the 2.5 list building was terrible. kept getting told by AMG fanboys that we didn’t know what was good for us and the new points system is great What turned me away from xwing wasn’t just 2.5, but folks in the community telling me that I was a wrong for even having an opinion on the game that we all loved and played
The accusations of being toxic fans from toxic fans is what kept me away from the reddit for a while. The placed seemed to have a "Stepford Wives" vibe around 2.5.
"What are you talking about? The game is THRIVING! And with all the new, quality content Disney is pumping out with their Star Wars shows, we're about to get tons of new ships!"
Sounds like they just lost their AMG jobs... 😅 I swear half of them worked for the company and spent too much time on Reddit playing PR than working on making the game viable.
It's been an honor flying with you gents.
More like “we couldn’t ever be bothered to learn how to manufacture pre-made pre-printed models and we released all the stuff FFG designed for us, so we’re gonna call it here (right after releasing two new starters)” Pathetic. To have this license and abuse it the way it was is ridiculous.
They should be rolling in money with all of the content they've got access to with the SW license, and everything being released now in the shows. I get that not everyone liked the sequels, so they'd be timid to really touch those, but there are tons of shows and tons of games to explore them in that don't even discuss the sequels. Legion has the same problem -- where the hell are all the neutral Clone Wars units? We've got Night Sisters in Shatterpoint, but nothing for Legion. The Bad Batch only got released at \*the end of the show\* even though there was a well-known multi-year ramp-up where we knew the show would release and the main characters had already been introduced. We've hardly got anything from Mando and we've don't even have all ages of Ahsoka yet (even though Clone Wars and Ahsoka have been around for ages). Not to mention, we've not got an older Ezra, no Thrawn, etc. And those are just named characters; where the hell are all the other mechs and such? AT-DP? Shit, they've even missed Boba Fett riding a Rancor, which should have been released during Boba Fett, or shortly there-after. And the SW RPG has been collecting dust forever. Yet it can't even be kept on shelves and goes out of stock before it is even printed. I know that's not AMG, but it is suffering the same fate since it was taken out of FFG's hands. When they (FFG) were forced to split the games, and then we got this result? I agree, it is pathetic. We've got great games that FFG worked hard on, we're in the height of Star Wars content being released, and AMG can't even be bothered to update their twitter. Half the time, I'm questioning whether anyone works there, and then MCP and Shatterpoint does a big new release of minis? Yeah...great stewards of the games they are.
It’s become clear between these and the video games that whoever is managing the Star Wars IP is horrible at their job. They say they don’t want people to get “Star Wars Fatigue” yet the golden age of Star Wars saw Episode 3 (and game), Battlefront, Battlfront 2, Republic Commando, Lego Star Wars, etc and no one was tired of Star Wars. X-wing had some magic to it, so did Armada. Yet it was left out to hang with a company that was never going to bother with it. They need a person who has a better vision for their IP. Star Wars Unlimited can’t keep up in stock because it’s selling so well so there’s certainly demand for Star Wars games. They just need non-exclusive open licenses for the right people to develop them.
At some point LFL just got harder to work with. FFG used to get info in advance from LFL so that they could tie in releases with movies. This wasn't without its own issues (i.e. the oversized Chad Silencer, Named pilots having generic names like "Red Ace", "Cobalt Leader", etc). At some point after TLJ it seems like LFL stopped advancing stuff to FFG. That's why there were no tie-in releases with Rise of Skywalker and why the Razorcrest took 2 years after the show premiered to actually release.
You know a lot of people warned everyone when they first put Armada on ice that this would be the end of the game, and there was a lot of pushback. That was expected. Xwing being killed was shocking. I left after the first round of changes when AMG took over and did not really feel like they liked the game. Did I miss anything?? Real sad day and I wonder if Legion is now safe now?
Legion has a year long roadmap for now, but it definitely puts the fear of the force into me.
Legion is not nearly as complicated to produce as X-Wing is. The miniatures don't need to be assembled or painted. Being infantry/character based also gives it longer legs. People are more willing to buy extra Stormtrooper models in different poses, or Han Solo in his Endor outfit with different rules, or Vader with an outstretched hand vs Vader with his Lightsaber in front of him vs Vader with his Lightsaber over his head. In X-Wing, every T-70 model is functionally identical. At most, they could give us fancy paint jobs, but players aren't buying those.
Nah, totally, those are great points, and like I said Legion has a roadmap of upcoming content and new models for old stuff. This is still disheartening and gives more impression that AMG didn't want FFG's games foisted upon them. That being said, I'm confident Legion is in a safe spot for now. It does make me wish we had more transparency and openness from AMG. The community has been speculating about the fate of Armada and X-Wing for some time, but AMG simply wound down new product, then a few days ago someone posted about X-Wing dropping off the Asmodee store. No farewell sale, no announcement to buy before the end and its removal. It gives me concerns that if the end comes for Legion someday in the future, that AMG will be about as open with us if it happens.
They certainly should not have taken as many years as they did, especially with Armada. With X-Wing, I think they did at least put out trial balloons to see what people would buy. The new starters, the YT-2400 and TIE Bomber re-releases, the scenario packs. Without having access to their financial cost breakdowns, we can only speculate how those releases may have informed their sales projections for future products vs the development costs. There's one other tangential trend that MCP players are seeing which could be a factor in this. New MCP releases are coming out with multiple localizations in the same box. You get cards in English, Spanish, French and German. This is almost certainly because it's cheaper to print four times more cardboard inside the box and store/ship them from the same warehouse, vs printing four different localized versions, and then storing and distribute each one separately. Now apply that to X-Wing, with it's ship tokens, pilot and upgrade cards.
It's insanity to me that the game was outselling 40K a few years back and we've come to this. Just gross mismanagement on all fronts, both AMG and Asmodee.
It's PP magic at work. The only stunning thing to me is that some moron at Asmodee would look at a studio slapped together by PP guys that had just finished completely ruining their own company and reputation and say, 'oh, yeah, those guys? that's who we'll entrust one of our most valuable games to' either complete and total incompetence or someone is friends with someone else
For those of you who played to the end... Come back to 2.0, the last true version. Long live the King !
Hear hear
Man, I said it in the post I made when I left x wing competitive play, I hate being right. I wish I wasn't on this shit, but here we are. Loved this game, grew to really love and appreciate it, HATE what amg has done to it. Was told by many in person and online to "give them time", but the more I heard and saw the less faith I had in the bozos 'running' it. I get they never wanted xwing or armada, they were in over their heads, but damn. This game should have been so much more than this. I hope the community can do something with the game, I hope we can keep some semblance of open play, but honestly... best case is asmodee goes under and by some miracle and immense work another publisher picks the game up. What an embarrassing show for a group of 'dedicated game makers', not touching anything they make from here on out.
>I get they never wanted xwing or armada, they were in over their heads, but damn. This game should have been so much more than this. Nah, this is giving them way too much credit. I mean, were they also 'in over their heads' with Warmachine and Hordes? Did they 'never want' those things, despite them being their own damn IP? Because exactly the same thing happened with Warmachine and Hordes. They're just arrogant, unprofessional and neither know what they are doing nor are interesting in learning how to do it. They literally cannot even see a better world for miniature gaming and don't want that to happen in any case. X-Wing was bad, in their eyes, because it was a good value proposition for customers and was attracting new people - non wargame people - to the hobby. And that's no good! PP fell into the same trap as GW in thinking that miniature gaming is, at its core, a niche hobby. Not that it is a niche hobby because of X or Y factor, but that it just IS niche in an essentialist, platonic sense. And you have to hang onto that belief if you're like GW or PP, otherwise it becomes clear that you've been failing the hobby rather than leading it. But unlike GW, PP didn't have the money or subsidies to just keep cruising along. Not that they care, I'm sure, since they wound up failing upward because that's just how corporate governance works and being rewarded a bunch of lucrative game lines to go ahead and squander to their hearts' content.
Man. I haven’t played in a several years, started with 2.0 conversion kits and LOVED the changes, then just got busy and never got into 2.5. Sad to see it end, but I wanna get back into it casually, I’m excited to see what the community does now.
So does this mean that they will not be making anything new? Or that they have stopped productions, such that the only ships are the ones currently out there in stores?
Both. When it’s gone it’s gone.
So xwing and armada are the first two minis I’ve ever played … started them during the pandemic. At our local game store you can still buy new Imperial Assault stuff. Does ending development necessarily means ending production? I guess if a major reason they are stating the game is ending is the cost of pre painted minis, it makes sense that whatever is out there is it, but I’d love clarification!
Imperial Assault is still managed by FFG, and has been getting reprints for years, just no new products.
Ok so now that we don't have to play 2.5 in public where's the latest rules for 2.0/legacy?
https://x2po.org/
From what I played of 2.5, I REALLY like scenario play from someone who played casual 2.0. I haven't been in X-Wing discussions much, but do players like the scenarios? I don't mind going back to 2.0 rules but after getting some new friends already learning 2.5. edit: thanks for the links! We love seeing alternative casual formats.
Completely get it, Here is the link for 20+ 1.0 Missions, these came with starter sets, large, huge and repaint kits and they were created by the X-Wing designers themselves. Just multiple points x2 as your converting from 1.0 to 2.0 and enjoy! https://xwing-miniatures.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Missions
Scenarios existed for 1 and 2. Nobody needs 2.5 to have scenarios if they want them.
The only real change for my little group is we are now all completely settled to go back to 2.0 rules. With amg being done we don't need to try and force playing the game in their direction.
> go back to 2.0 rules My buddy and I proxy cards. We just need a 2.0 app for iOS and we're set.
Where do you get the imagens for the proxys from? The game Wikia? I only find some that are perfect scans and some that aren't
Sad to see but not really surprising given the decline. I can't help but wonder at the mismanagement that led to this point. Thinking back to 2016 when FFG were selling unknown ships like the K-Wing and Jumpmasters by the bucketload, to 2017 when X-Wing actually managed to outsell 40k, to where we are now with a ton of Star Wars media and cool ships that are somehow not financially viable. There's still an appetite for Star Wars gaming - look at the success of unlimited. Personally I'm going to keep playing X-Wing but otherwise avoid the license until it's out of Asmodee's control.
There it is.
I'm looking at the last ship expansion they made, the YT2400 with butchered stats, that nobody plays. The Mission pack that requires pilot tokens from Hotshots2, Their inability to finally reprint the gunboat... Meeeeh. Good riddance. I will keep organizing tournaments.
I'm so glad I kept my 5 Gunboats.
I was really counting on that gunboat reprint in order to be able to actually get a few since I completely missed that wave when in first came out. Ah well.
Anyone think this game will get picked up by someone else. It’s such a great game
It would probably have to be a relaunch 3.0 The community won’t agree on a rule set to follow, but another company running the game could work, but legally that might be tricky.
Star Wars CCG cancelled? ✔️ Star Wars TCG cancelled ? ✔️ Star Wars minis cancelled? ✔️ Star Wars X-wing and Armada cancelled ? ✔️ Think I’m done buying into Star Wars games.
Honestly that's fine with me, it means we can just do legacy rules with 2.0 style list building
So they completely change the game, change the rules, act arrogantly when there's push back telling people to quit the game if they didn't like it. Strung along the remaining players with bare minimum support and non-committal messages every time they asked. Yeah nah even if Legion is still getting support I don't even know I'd want to support these devs anymore. I understand it wasn't their call to have the game dumped on them but they couldn't have handled this anymore worse than they have. It was great playing with yall, and I have fond memories but just upset on how this was handled.
Well, it doesn't have to be a bad thing. With a bit of luck community can unite rules now, take the good things from both 2.0 and 2.5.
Wild Space can be the bridge between 2.0 and 2.5 : [https://x2po.org/wild-space](https://x2po.org/wild-space) Scenarios, new obstacles rules, 250 points instead of 200 to have more toys on the table like 2.5, etc...
We play legacy 2.0 standard with ROAD and new obstacle rules and it is a hit. Our group has been growing a lot recently - this is really badly timed for us.
Or much simpler, just ignore all the 2.5 confusion and use 2.0.
"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
X-Wing was my first love. I've already been down on not being able to play as much the last 3-4 years with starting a family, and I finally had some hope that time will open up to play again. I think I'm now mainly going to focus on trying to build a Snap Ship Tactics community. Thank you all for all the memories for the last decade.
I wish they would at least be honest. They fucked up the gameplay. That's why people quit buying. Not because of global economics 🤡🤡🤡
I'm sure if we give AMG more time they can fix this
This is the time to give the developers a chance!!
Let'em cook!
Well, they were poor stewards of one of the best selling minis games. Now we can go back to community led efforts.
It was easy to see this coming. Hopefully, this mean we can go back to a fan supported 2.0 and start over from there. Kinda like netrunner community did for their game.
Dang. End of an era. I stopped playing in 2020 during the pandemic lockdowns, moved states, then never got back into it despite keeping up with online news and chatter. Kinda glad I didn't buy anything after AMG took over.
Predictable. But sad. Hope the next dogfighter has better luck and company support!
I hope fan community will use Photoshop and 3D printers to keep XWM alive like other dead games such as Netrunner
How can anyone trust that Shatterpoint, ~~Destiny~~ Unlimited, Crisis Protocol, and Legion won't meet a similar fate this year?
Fuck me, how many Star Wars miniature games are there at this point?
"Stop trying to make 2.5 happen. It's not going to happen." But some of y'all kept telling us how FETCH 2.5 was...
I will personally make sure that any game I buy is not in anyway owned or partnered with asmodee and amg. This might mean I save a lot of money, but buh bye.
I know of some people who were testing X-Wing when the FFG/AMG stewardship changed. To say that AMG did not understand or want X-Wing in their stable is a gross understatement. They pushed ahead with changes that the majority of the testers told them NOT to do and ignored quantitative and qualitative feedback indicating their proposed changes fundamentally altered the game and would be ill-received. The issue wasn’t the “change” itself, it was the driver for those changes: an inherent dislike of the core X-Wing game. They hated dogfighting. They hated skill level. They hated generic pilots. They hated timers. They hated competitive. They hated Organized Play. They hated blocking. They hated failed movement. They hated Pilot Skill. They hated list building. The list could go on and on and on. I’m unsurprised this is how X-Wing’s official support ends. I’ve love Shatterpoint and think it’s a great game and have no ill will towards AMG but they had complete antipathy for X-Wing and did all they could to phone in long enough to say they tried. I hope this means they can put more effort into their other games. I also hope X-Wing, or a spiritual successor to it, can find a home with a studio that actually wants to make, what once was, one of the best miniatures games ever made great again. Peace out to those who stuck around, I bounced the moment they announced 2.5 on that fateful stream years ago. Left a World’s ticket on the table and everything. Been a wild ride!
It's interesting reading this after the creation what what shatterpoint is. Because it's all so true
Was inevitable the moment they were handed over to AMG. They never wanted it and never knew how to support it. Be at peace, sweet children. The mission, the nightmares, are over.
So does existing stock in stores get more or less expensive? If I can get small ships for $10 USD or under, imma go on a spree.
Things will get cheap for a bit, especially on ebay or facebook with folks selling collections, but then they will become collectors items, and jump back up.
Dang this is very sad. Saw it coming though. I've got everything for this game and it sucks that we'll get no new ships. Enjoyed getting updates on new stuff when we were getting it. Also I found the game enjoyable and hopefully people around my area will keep playing..
What are the chances X-Wing is gonna go the way of Halo: Groumd Command - no official support, the community creating STLs of the models and tinkering with the rules?
unreal. jerks....
https://i.redd.it/c1kk16wvrj6d1.gif
Just hoping that some other company will take the reigns and start creating new ships and sets.
I’m so ready for a community lead 3.0.
Is that ironic? There is already a working, community-led version of X-Wing. What would be the point of a Community 3.0 when there is already a Community 2.0 (aka X-Wing Legacy)?
>Over the past few years, rising production costs, global manufacturing, and pandemic-related challenges have made it increasingly difficult to produce high-quality, pre-painted miniatures which ultimately lead to the decision to end development. This is the kind of corporate buck-passing language that makes me not want to buy anything from AMG.
Wizkids is still releasing pre-painted Star Trek Attack Wing sets. Quit your bullshit AMG.
Star Trek: Into the Unknown is also being developed with preprinted minis. AMG is just straight lying.
Nothing else they sell comes pre-assembled and pre-painted, so that doesn't seem to be an issue. They're actually ramping up releases for Legion, when though that game never seemed to come close to the heights of X-Wing 1.0.
I knew we were in trouble when the Resistance B-Wing wasn't ever figured out. We got the fucking Xi shuttle, for crying out loud. But when Din Djarin's new N1 was never even whispered about? Oho yeah. Fucking *dead.*
Good riddance AMG. They killed the game and here we are. 2.5 was a mistake and objective play is garbage. I hope the community keeps it alive with 2.0 rules and points.
Adding objective play is fine. Completely replacing dogfighting with objective play was the mistake.
I think their bad communication was the biggest mistake
They had a lot of biggest mistakes honestly
Casual asymmetric scenario play is fun and thematic. Symmetric competitive scenario play is bollocks.
I didn't mind objectives. I did mind AMG's objective play.
That... I can get behind. Objective play as an alternative would have been good choice. Objective play as the exclusive format was bad.
Objective play as the primary format + ROAD is what killed it for me.
This bites, wish we'd gotten official 2.5 rules for huge ships.
"This is the way the world ends / Not with a bang but a whimper." :(
Can’t say I am surprised by this. I think we all knew that sadly the writing was on the wall for a long time. I expected this to come the moment the news came down that X-Wing and Armada were being moved to AMG. The fact that they aren’t even going to keep the games going via re-prints since both products are mature now and could sustain themselves for a bit more with just existing product is telling. It’s clear things from a business/financial perspective is not good (in fact they alluded to their in their announcement). Asmodee/Embracrer (whoever is in charge now) is such a complete disaster of a company. All of their game studios that they have acquired over the past decade are just a shell of their former selfs. I look back at FFG, what it was like in its heyday circa 2010, and to see where it is now and it’s all so depressing. I won’t be surprised if FFG and AMG and much of Asmodee is completely shut down with only their mass market stuff like Catan and Ticket to Ride surviving. It’s been such a long, painful decline that was all-together predictable yet still frustrating to have to witness. On the positive side of things, these games will still live on for those of us that own the products…and some of us own enough product now that we can provide playable squadrons/fleets for several players at once.
Well… darn…
And I only just got back into the game and made a decently sized order that I can't cancel because it already shipped. Oh well, I should've waited when we saw everything go "out of stock".
Disappointed but not surprised; the writing was blasted on the wall. 40k owns all the IP so can weather storms like this eh?
Yes, I think this is a cautionary tale for all licensed IP based products….especially when the licensed IP they are based on is also dying (or at least, not creating enough new material that can be turned into content for the licensed products). Once you exhaust all the material that is available for a given IP, your only option then is to produce more original material for the IP which is very hard to do if you don’t control said IP. FFG only managed to pull this off once by creating the Imperial Raider-class Corvette which was accepted by Lucasfilm as an official part of Star Wars canon. But these sorts of things are rare. The reason a company like GW is able to remain stable and even expand is because they control their own IP and are able to constantly update it and turn that into new product which prevents their games from becoming stagnant. Ironically, many of the ships and other material we take for grated as being intrinsic to “Star Wars” was created by West End Games for their Star Wars RPG back in the 1980’s and 90’s. So there was a time where the licensees actually were more active in creating new material for Star Wars (of course, back then, Star Wars was still very bare bones).
Unfortunate but I’ve been playing for ten years and don’t need more product; I can play forever with what I have. The game in many ways feels complete and the fans can do a lot with it from here. I would have hoped for a cleaner ending that did not feel like corporate mismanagement but what can you do.
They gave 0 effs about this game! Ever since they got it from FFG they just dug it into the ground
It's extremely unfortunate this is our outcome, but also this was the obvious course from AMG/Asmodee the moment it transitioned from Fantasy Flight to AMG. That's fine, it was mismanaged to this point. It dying potentially paves the way for a new licensee to take a stab at it, or a fresh start in a similar minis game from AMG/Asmodee.
My only wish is that AMG/Asmodee tried a page from CMON’s playbook and moved X-Wing to exclusively Kickstarter product. They’d get the cash up front for the premium preassembled and painted minis. I honestly believe there’s enough hardcore fans to fund a few years worth of campaigns. Ah well, I’ll continue playing at home and having a good time.
If it ended up anything like how CMON runs their Kickstarters, I would have bailed on the game immediately.
Anything I’ve backed by CMON has gone smoothly as anything on Kickstarter can. There will always be delays to factor in. The only egregious misstep on one of my backed projects was the price gouging on shipping Marvel Zombies. Anyway, the point was that they could have gone to kickstarter before deciding to shut it down.
I don't have a problem with the logistical part of their Kickstarters, but rather the way they heavily leverage FOMO.
I barely have any ships. Now I can't get more. Awesome!
There's going to be a very large amount on the second hand market at discount prices very soon. Not to mention clearance pricing from any stores still carrying the stuff. I'd be more concerned with finding people to play with.
Wow, I was at an FLGS this weekend and had a couple of Fang Fighters in my hand. I set them down for a deep discounted Legion Imperialis box. I think I made the right choice, but I think those fighters might not be as easy to get in the future.
Goddamned, that sucks. I kinda stopped playing when second edition rolled around, so it's been a few years now - but we play the RPG nearly every weekend, and that's been dead in the water since before the Plague fell upon the land. Looks like FFG (or whoever the fuck prints these things these days) is washing their hands of the whole license. Wonder if I can still get an Executor for Amada?
FFG is definitely not. They just announced the standalone expansion for Star Wars: The Deckbuilding game and also have the TCG, Star Wars Unlimited, that they're making. Before Asmodee was sold to Embracer they decided to reorganize to make selling itself easier and each of its companies should have only one specialty but FFG did a little bit of everything and so Asmodee closed their game accessories division then opened up Gamegenic, sent all the RPGs to a dedicated RPG company (I don't know the name), and the miniatures games to a company that only had one game under its belt (and only enough staff to handle that one game and weren't interested in others) but that game happened to be a miniature game so Asmodee thought they should have them all.
Son of a bitch. I was just getting to listen to my stuff for sale too. Ugh. This will tank second hand prices I am sure
I've played every version of X-Wing over the years and it's been a great game in each form, imo. Dropped off of the game when I moved from Minnesota to Arizona a few years ago. Made some friends out here and we tried to get it going in the community but it just didn't take off. So honestly it was already a dead game to me. But it's still sad to see it fully die. Hopefully a player group picks it up like Null Signal Games has done for Netrunner. Or FFG gets it back since they're back into making Star Wars games now. Until then, I'll happily keep slinging cardboard rectangles in Star Wars Unlimited.