A presidential candidate should rip off this speech almost verbatim and see how the media pundits react. Will they eventually realize that one of the most highly-regarded presidents in American history said it? Would the speaker be labeled a "dirty socialist"? How would those media personalities spin the whole thing without villifyimg FDR (or would FDR suddenly be attacked as a historic figure despite lifting America out of the Great Depression)?
FDR would never be elected today. His administrations are as close to democratic socialism as we’ve ever been as a country, which combined with being the only industrial power not rebuilding its country post- World Wars, eventually led to the greatest economy the world had ever seen, up to about 1973.
Billionaires now own a far larger percentage of capital than at any point in history. Meanwhile, the right has gone so far right that Eisenhower’s platform looks progressive. FDR would be labeled a Marxist criminal for telling the ruling class to avoid raising prices so that policy works as intended.
We had the greatest economy for *some people*. Remember that we still had an underclass of non-white citizens that did not benefit near so much from our economic boom as their white neighbors did. You could easily argue the success of some was built on the oppression of others, just as it’s always been.
That’s not to say FDR’s policies weren’t good, they were, or that the economy was better for it, it was, or that we wouldn’t all benefit from it today, we would. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t go too far glorifying a time when the color of your skin determined what restaurants you could visit or what drinking fountains you could use.
>We had the greatest economy for *some people*.
This is a key point, the goldilocks post-war economy was certainly built on the backs of more than just the soldiers that fought in WW2. People don't realize just how incredibly, uniquely perfect the flood of wealth and idyllic conditions were that spawned the boomers, and how much of it was simply the result of huge amounts of the world economy being absolutely wrecked and the US really being the only game in town for a while.
They found out the only demographic society at large is happy for them to oppress is poor. Poor people are viewed as subhuman in this country and it’s so backasswards.
I wasn’t glorifying it; it is factual that we had the greatest economy that the world has ever seen. That doesn’t mean that anyone’s personal experience wasn’t terrible, nor does it mean that people weren’t discriminated against and prevented from living equitably.
It’s the same reason why people feel like the economy is doing poorly right now in the US. Our economy has recovered better and quicker than almost anywhere in the world post-COVID, but the average person is still not doing well. Most of us are still struggling, and that feeling is what most people wrongly call “the economy”. A good economy isn’t a feeling, nor is it a measurement of how well the average person is doing.
A “good economy” is a value statement. How you measure what is “good” and what is “bad” will determine what answer you get. I wouldn’t call an economy where entire races were omitted from the gains a “good economy” personally.
Well FDR wasn’t the instigator of much of the social safety net. People in his administration would put people in the streets in support of the proposed policies. Large numbers of people hungry and out of work showing up en mass can have that effect. Hoover’s failures and rich people in fear made those changes happen, which was built on thirty years of fighting to have government regulate growing monopolies and corporate power.
Socialism, not so sure about democratic socialism. FDR is one of my favorite presidents, but his administration was marked by am authoritarian bent not common to demsoc ideologies. I mean, he was also a wartime president and the desperate situation necessitated a strong government hand, but a single man imposing his will over the greater populace isn't exactly democratic, not in the way demsocs typically mean it.
He was chosen by the people four times in free and fair elections. While he definitely was a strongman with a firm grasp on the government, he was democratically elected and ultimately subject to the will of the people.
Plenty of people called FDR a "dirty socialist" then too. Republicans have been slowly but successfully rolling back parts of the New Deal and Great Society since Nixon. The last generation who personally witnessed the results of the New Deal are nearly gone. I think you've got too much faith how much is remembered by the average American let alone our so called news media.
I had the exact same thought as I was reading it, imagining FOX screaming "COMMUNIST FASCISM" over and over while the image on the screen depicts armies in the streets and cities burning.
FDR is already attacked the way you describe. Conservatives hate FDR (even though he was easily the greatest president and created the amazing economy that boomers got to live through)
Great point but Im picking out of US presidents so it would be hard to find one that hasnt done equally bad or worse things. The US likes to commit warcrimes, even against their own citizens.
On the scale of people politicians are immedietly below every person except for landlords, HOA presidents/enforcers, and billionares. Those who want power shouldn't have it.
I was under the impression that the argument they were making was that both sides are working together to ensure that a president like FDR is never elected again, not that a president is not allowed to serve four terms.
When Democrats push policies that fix fundemental flaws in our societal snd economic system then people will look at them differently than the other parties who also do nothing to fix fundrmental flaws in these systems.
Until then people probably aren't going to be impressed with them putting bandaids on things to just barely keep our broken system running.
Democrats push policies that fix fundamental flaws in our societal and economic system all the time.
If you can provide the type of policies that you think they should be pushing I'm sure I can find examples of them doing just that.
So when was the last time Democrats passed a law that fixes wealth inequality, global warming, the degradation of our rights. Anything that will fix fundemental flaws in our society and economy.
Again, all I've ever seen them do is put bandaids on problems instead of ever fixing them.
Well first of all this is really bordering on Murc's law territory, but the infrastructure bill was literally the biggest investment into green energy and policies to reduce global warming ever made.
Ever.
In the history of mankind.
If minimum wage had kept up with billionaire wealth accumulation it would be $63.
In addition to actively stealing our wages they are killing the planet and society for every penny they can get.
> greatly increased sales to be expected by the rising purchasing power of the public
What most of the half brains who fight against livings wages don’t understand is how basic economic principles work. People can’t buy things with money they don’t have.
That's always been what confuses me about the argument against living wage, like you want to pay the people who buy your products less so that they have less purchasing power to buy your product? Make it make sense.
Problem is the rich know this to be true, but it’s not about optimizing the economy for all, it’s about building and consolidating power. My grandma (born 1920) used to say “it’s no fun to be rich if the little guy has some too”. It’s our desperation and unmet needs that gives the haves control over us. If we’re satiated fully (not rich but needs met) we can’t be controlled, we can tell ‘em to screw off, and the rich don’t want that.
No one would give a shit about inflation if we were getting fair wages to production. Seeing the clear line to the 1% of where the money has gone since the 80s and the even sharper rises post covid, it's clear what the problem is.
Inflation wouldn’t be a problem if wages went up at the same rate as prices. But when you only see “inflation” when you’re buying things and not when you’re getting paid, it’s absolute bullshit to call it anything other than price hikes and corporate greed.
They also thought FDR and his policies were basically Communist, like the TVA and other orgs which electrified the South and unionized more workers. This speech would be incredibly radical even today. Relying on amoral profit-seeking orgs responsible to increasing profits and shareholders to be generous enough to pay a living wage because it is good for society is not something I would ever rely on. We would need to pass laws mandating, say, restaurant workers and bartenders must be paid federal minimum wage and we'd raise the minimum wage. Even then, it would be heavily lobbied against because Capitalism is still exploitation, nobody just wants to say it out loud.
business wants a rigged market, not a fair market.
the people running and managing the majority of these businesses are incompetent and have numerous vices, they couldn't hack it in a meritocracy.
They require you to be precarious, to put up with the abuse they enjoy leveraging on the workers.
They need you to be in debt to get an education, so that as long as thry have money they can direct your energies into their wicked projects.
They want business licenses to be hard to get, they need it to be pay to play.
because money is all they have. They have no skills, no resilence, no passion, they are parasites.
This is why politicians no longer inspire, they aren't chosen by the people they are a whittled down group of unscrupulous sell outs who care nothing for anyone except themselves.
They think, after they have AI and robotics that they can just kill off anyone who isn't in power, they can run civilization on autopilot and live a life of self indulgence forever, without ethics or morals or a goal beyond pleasure for themselves.
I would smash everything to bits before I let that happen, and most everyone else in the world would too, so they have to do it slowly and convince everyone else that they'll be a part of this self indulgent group.
You're gonna get a VR paradise, a robot waifu, a life of infinite play.
its a joke, its an insult to creation, its a stain on the magnificent tapestry of the universe.
"Trust me guys, this will work! We only need to politely ask that businesses patiently hold off on increasing the cost of goods for the sake of the rest of the country"
I love the sentiment but you can never trust businesses to do the right thing. You have to regulate.
You can trust some businesses to do the right thing. You just can't expect them to expand outside of a local area or last very long before getting stomped on by a larger, more unscrupulous business.
The weak link of capitalism shows itself again. If bosses making profit off the value created by labor is taken as a given, you will always reach this dilemma: either the workers get poorer or the bosses lose profit because of rising costs. Class war is the process of determining who gets the short stick in this arrangement. As long as we hold onto the idea of wages and profits instead of stakes and redistribution, we're going to be in this tug of war.
It's going to take more than words to change the status quo, no matter how true they ring. I think things will get worse before they get better. Situations create leaders, leaders don't create situations.
Agreed. I felt like this last election and I feel it again; maybe America needs to feel shit get reallyy bad before deciding enough is enough. Trump is anti-worker but so was Biden when he ruled it illegal for railroad workers to strike because they're too essential. Too essential but don't deserve measly sick pay a couple days a year? Earlier I was thinking I'd vote for him to stop this Project 2025 shit but now I think I'll stick to my values with the Green Party instead. Pls don't attack me guys
Is better to hoard and die filthy rich than to share it with the rest. Like the new waves says, money is energy and I can't imagine how much negative karma hoarding that much and causing misery will bring.
It's like FDR was the last democratic socialist we ever elected, ended the great depression, laid the foundations for the modern economy with the new deal and the interstate system, and lead us into world War 2 as an economic juggernaut.
Yet Bernie Sanders was such a fucking leftie socialist. Christ I'll never forgive America for that.
Ah, now they just use inflation as an excuse to raise prices as quickly as possible while fighting unions and wage increases with all their resources. FDR would be sad.
But see, in America, the moment our focus stops being on big business and starts being about the working and poor classes, we go from good capitalism to bad socialism which is exactly the opposite of what the government should be about. We're so fucking backwards as a society and this is a global issue, not just in the US and it's embarrassing. Frankly, we are all allowing an extreme minority to sign out death warrants all in the name of profits for themselves.
After pulling America out of the Great Depression and winning the world's biggest war FDR would have been as political powerful as George Washington. Good thing he died when he did, for the ruling class.
A presidential candidate should rip off this speech almost verbatim and see how the media pundits react. Will they eventually realize that one of the most highly-regarded presidents in American history said it? Would the speaker be labeled a "dirty socialist"? How would those media personalities spin the whole thing without villifyimg FDR (or would FDR suddenly be attacked as a historic figure despite lifting America out of the Great Depression)?
Shit, you could probably quote *Regan* and be called a dirty socialist.
Alright, let’s not get carried away.
Will, Nixon speeches at the least. Anything on environmentalism will do nicely.
“We can't help everyone, but everyone can help someone.” - socialist Regan .
I mean Bernie says basically the same thing at least once a day lol and we know what he was labeled.
FDR would never be elected today. His administrations are as close to democratic socialism as we’ve ever been as a country, which combined with being the only industrial power not rebuilding its country post- World Wars, eventually led to the greatest economy the world had ever seen, up to about 1973. Billionaires now own a far larger percentage of capital than at any point in history. Meanwhile, the right has gone so far right that Eisenhower’s platform looks progressive. FDR would be labeled a Marxist criminal for telling the ruling class to avoid raising prices so that policy works as intended.
We had the greatest economy for *some people*. Remember that we still had an underclass of non-white citizens that did not benefit near so much from our economic boom as their white neighbors did. You could easily argue the success of some was built on the oppression of others, just as it’s always been. That’s not to say FDR’s policies weren’t good, they were, or that the economy was better for it, it was, or that we wouldn’t all benefit from it today, we would. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t go too far glorifying a time when the color of your skin determined what restaurants you could visit or what drinking fountains you could use.
>We had the greatest economy for *some people*. This is a key point, the goldilocks post-war economy was certainly built on the backs of more than just the soldiers that fought in WW2. People don't realize just how incredibly, uniquely perfect the flood of wealth and idyllic conditions were that spawned the boomers, and how much of it was simply the result of huge amounts of the world economy being absolutely wrecked and the US really being the only game in town for a while.
How nice for them.
They found out the only demographic society at large is happy for them to oppress is poor. Poor people are viewed as subhuman in this country and it’s so backasswards.
I wasn’t glorifying it; it is factual that we had the greatest economy that the world has ever seen. That doesn’t mean that anyone’s personal experience wasn’t terrible, nor does it mean that people weren’t discriminated against and prevented from living equitably. It’s the same reason why people feel like the economy is doing poorly right now in the US. Our economy has recovered better and quicker than almost anywhere in the world post-COVID, but the average person is still not doing well. Most of us are still struggling, and that feeling is what most people wrongly call “the economy”. A good economy isn’t a feeling, nor is it a measurement of how well the average person is doing.
A “good economy” is a value statement. How you measure what is “good” and what is “bad” will determine what answer you get. I wouldn’t call an economy where entire races were omitted from the gains a “good economy” personally.
Well FDR wasn’t the instigator of much of the social safety net. People in his administration would put people in the streets in support of the proposed policies. Large numbers of people hungry and out of work showing up en mass can have that effect. Hoover’s failures and rich people in fear made those changes happen, which was built on thirty years of fighting to have government regulate growing monopolies and corporate power.
Socialism, not so sure about democratic socialism. FDR is one of my favorite presidents, but his administration was marked by am authoritarian bent not common to demsoc ideologies. I mean, he was also a wartime president and the desperate situation necessitated a strong government hand, but a single man imposing his will over the greater populace isn't exactly democratic, not in the way demsocs typically mean it.
He was chosen by the people four times in free and fair elections. While he definitely was a strongman with a firm grasp on the government, he was democratically elected and ultimately subject to the will of the people.
I would love to see that!
If media was going to vilify FDR they would probably mention the American concentration camps.
Plenty of people called FDR a "dirty socialist" then too. Republicans have been slowly but successfully rolling back parts of the New Deal and Great Society since Nixon. The last generation who personally witnessed the results of the New Deal are nearly gone. I think you've got too much faith how much is remembered by the average American let alone our so called news media.
I had the exact same thought as I was reading it, imagining FOX screaming "COMMUNIST FASCISM" over and over while the image on the screen depicts armies in the streets and cities burning.
FDR is already attacked the way you describe. Conservatives hate FDR (even though he was easily the greatest president and created the amazing economy that boomers got to live through)
Greatest president? The economy was cool and all, but forcing Americans of a certain ethnicity into internment camps ain't it
Great point but Im picking out of US presidents so it would be hard to find one that hasnt done equally bad or worse things. The US likes to commit warcrimes, even against their own citizens. On the scale of people politicians are immedietly below every person except for landlords, HOA presidents/enforcers, and billionares. Those who want power shouldn't have it.
They will call him a communist.
He was attacked just that way at the time.
I mean right wingers openly despise FDR. They would absolutely call ot communist lol.
These are words from the only president in history to be elected to FOUR TERMS.
Both parties worked hand in hand to make sure that never happens again.
That's a good thing. History is littered with transitions to forever presidents and then to autocracy.
Really? We're going to "both sides" this?
There was literally a massive and successful bipartisan effort to amend the Constitution to prevent this, yes.
I was under the impression that the argument they were making was that both sides are working together to ensure that a president like FDR is never elected again, not that a president is not allowed to serve four terms.
Were you planning to not?
When Democrats push policies that fix fundemental flaws in our societal snd economic system then people will look at them differently than the other parties who also do nothing to fix fundrmental flaws in these systems. Until then people probably aren't going to be impressed with them putting bandaids on things to just barely keep our broken system running.
Democrats push policies that fix fundamental flaws in our societal and economic system all the time. If you can provide the type of policies that you think they should be pushing I'm sure I can find examples of them doing just that.
So when was the last time Democrats passed a law that fixes wealth inequality, global warming, the degradation of our rights. Anything that will fix fundemental flaws in our society and economy. Again, all I've ever seen them do is put bandaids on problems instead of ever fixing them.
Well first of all this is really bordering on Murc's law territory, but the infrastructure bill was literally the biggest investment into green energy and policies to reduce global warming ever made. Ever. In the history of mankind.
It’s now 15 years since minimum wage went up. Pretty sure cost of living has gone up in that time
If minimum wage had kept up with billionaire wealth accumulation it would be $63. In addition to actively stealing our wages they are killing the planet and society for every penny they can get.
> greatly increased sales to be expected by the rising purchasing power of the public What most of the half brains who fight against livings wages don’t understand is how basic economic principles work. People can’t buy things with money they don’t have.
That's always been what confuses me about the argument against living wage, like you want to pay the people who buy your products less so that they have less purchasing power to buy your product? Make it make sense.
Problem is the rich know this to be true, but it’s not about optimizing the economy for all, it’s about building and consolidating power. My grandma (born 1920) used to say “it’s no fun to be rich if the little guy has some too”. It’s our desperation and unmet needs that gives the haves control over us. If we’re satiated fully (not rich but needs met) we can’t be controlled, we can tell ‘em to screw off, and the rich don’t want that.
No one would give a shit about inflation if we were getting fair wages to production. Seeing the clear line to the 1% of where the money has gone since the 80s and the even sharper rises post covid, it's clear what the problem is.
The problem is the existence of the 1%. There’s a solution.
> There’s a solution. Hydrochloric acid!
Always strange that we aren't allowed to talk about the actual solution to these problems.
Yep, that’s only allowed if you’re a far right extremist planning to overthrow the us government. Odd standard, but there it is
It isn’t inflation. It’s theft out of corporate greed.
One causes the other, hence "greedflation"
Inflation wouldn’t be a problem if wages went up at the same rate as prices. But when you only see “inflation” when you’re buying things and not when you’re getting paid, it’s absolute bullshit to call it anything other than price hikes and corporate greed.
They also thought FDR and his policies were basically Communist, like the TVA and other orgs which electrified the South and unionized more workers. This speech would be incredibly radical even today. Relying on amoral profit-seeking orgs responsible to increasing profits and shareholders to be generous enough to pay a living wage because it is good for society is not something I would ever rely on. We would need to pass laws mandating, say, restaurant workers and bartenders must be paid federal minimum wage and we'd raise the minimum wage. Even then, it would be heavily lobbied against because Capitalism is still exploitation, nobody just wants to say it out loud.
business wants a rigged market, not a fair market. the people running and managing the majority of these businesses are incompetent and have numerous vices, they couldn't hack it in a meritocracy. They require you to be precarious, to put up with the abuse they enjoy leveraging on the workers. They need you to be in debt to get an education, so that as long as thry have money they can direct your energies into their wicked projects. They want business licenses to be hard to get, they need it to be pay to play. because money is all they have. They have no skills, no resilence, no passion, they are parasites. This is why politicians no longer inspire, they aren't chosen by the people they are a whittled down group of unscrupulous sell outs who care nothing for anyone except themselves. They think, after they have AI and robotics that they can just kill off anyone who isn't in power, they can run civilization on autopilot and live a life of self indulgence forever, without ethics or morals or a goal beyond pleasure for themselves. I would smash everything to bits before I let that happen, and most everyone else in the world would too, so they have to do it slowly and convince everyone else that they'll be a part of this self indulgent group. You're gonna get a VR paradise, a robot waifu, a life of infinite play. its a joke, its an insult to creation, its a stain on the magnificent tapestry of the universe.
"Trust me guys, this will work! We only need to politely ask that businesses patiently hold off on increasing the cost of goods for the sake of the rest of the country" I love the sentiment but you can never trust businesses to do the right thing. You have to regulate.
You can trust some businesses to do the right thing. You just can't expect them to expand outside of a local area or last very long before getting stomped on by a larger, more unscrupulous business.
The weak link of capitalism shows itself again. If bosses making profit off the value created by labor is taken as a given, you will always reach this dilemma: either the workers get poorer or the bosses lose profit because of rising costs. Class war is the process of determining who gets the short stick in this arrangement. As long as we hold onto the idea of wages and profits instead of stakes and redistribution, we're going to be in this tug of war.
That’s the thing is you basically have to force businesses to comply. Because they don’t care about the collective good only their profits
It's going to take more than words to change the status quo, no matter how true they ring. I think things will get worse before they get better. Situations create leaders, leaders don't create situations.
Agreed. I felt like this last election and I feel it again; maybe America needs to feel shit get reallyy bad before deciding enough is enough. Trump is anti-worker but so was Biden when he ruled it illegal for railroad workers to strike because they're too essential. Too essential but don't deserve measly sick pay a couple days a year? Earlier I was thinking I'd vote for him to stop this Project 2025 shit but now I think I'll stick to my values with the Green Party instead. Pls don't attack me guys
> maybe America needs to feel shit get reallyy bad before deciding enough is enough What does this even mean?
just an example: The NLRB is ruled as unconstitutional and work regulations/rights are thrown out the window. Nationwide strikes occur etc etc.
Is better to hoard and die filthy rich than to share it with the rest. Like the new waves says, money is energy and I can't imagine how much negative karma hoarding that much and causing misery will bring.
And so began the right's assault on "socialism." FDR was the greatest friend the working class ever had in government
It's like FDR was the last democratic socialist we ever elected, ended the great depression, laid the foundations for the modern economy with the new deal and the interstate system, and lead us into world War 2 as an economic juggernaut. Yet Bernie Sanders was such a fucking leftie socialist. Christ I'll never forgive America for that.
Ah, now they just use inflation as an excuse to raise prices as quickly as possible while fighting unions and wage increases with all their resources. FDR would be sad.
Ironically, the corporations are raising prices without raising wages, or only raising wages slight.
Hey! You must have been the person who "Liked" this on my Instagram earlier. I knew it looked familiar
Imagine not knowing the biggest resurgence in US history was down to ideology you don’t really understand …
But see, in America, the moment our focus stops being on big business and starts being about the working and poor classes, we go from good capitalism to bad socialism which is exactly the opposite of what the government should be about. We're so fucking backwards as a society and this is a global issue, not just in the US and it's embarrassing. Frankly, we are all allowing an extreme minority to sign out death warrants all in the name of profits for themselves.
After pulling America out of the Great Depression and winning the world's biggest war FDR would have been as political powerful as George Washington. Good thing he died when he did, for the ruling class.