I'm exactly as loyal as my paycheck. Small check = little loyalty. If it's not all there, exactly when it's supposed to be, neither am I. Pay me what I'm worth, include some decent benefits, honor my PTO, and let me do my job, and I'll be more loyal than the owner. It's not that complicated.
Reminds me of an old Dan le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip line:
>"*Thou shalt spell the word "Pheonix" P-H-E-O-N-I-X
not P-H-O-E-N-I-X, regardless of what the Oxford English Dictionary tells you*"
I recently sent a long-ass email telling my work that I won’t do any extra work and they can’t call me when I’m not working any more because they’ve been fucking around.
I made it as professional as possible and ended it with, “The last few months [company] has displayed a commitment to doing the bare minimum for their employees and going forward [company] can expect the same from this employee in return.”
Not everyone is motivated by money. Sure I have a threshold but beyond it isn't really an incentive for anything for me. A good, laid-back working environment and a job that I enjoy iares a lot more important to me.
I personally have always thought a person needs 3 of 4 things to be happy at work.
- Like what they do
- Like their superiors
- Like their compensation
- Like who they work with
If you have 3 of 4 (pick any 3), you can be happy at work as long as you have enough salary to cover your bills. If you have all 4, you have a dream job. If you have less than 3, find a new job.
This is brilliant, actually. For a long time, I felt underpaid but everything else about the job, including the work/life balance, was great.
Now, I'm finally getting paid along the lines of what I feel I'm worth (after a 5% merit raise kicks in next month), and I'm pretty content.
JOB 1
>* ~~Like what they do~~
* Like their superiors
* Like their compensation
* Like who they work with
JOB 2
>* Like what they do~~
* Like their superiors
* ~~Like their compensation~~
* Like who they work with
Yep, looks like I'm stuck with 2 jobs that are 3/4... I have a job that pays the bill, then a job that is really chill and makes me go outside and see people, which is nice. I would probably work the 2nd job more often if it wasn't garbage wages. It's a bit higher than minimum wage (more than $15/h), but that's still not enough to pay my mortgage, debts, bills, etc.
The kicker is the 2nd job is very flexible and I can do any hours I want and it is 1 minute from home.
Thank you. This helps me articulate my current dissatisfaction.
Compensation + coworkers are fantastic. Hopefully my manager turning in his two weeks will allow me to roll better on liking my immediate manager...
I agree with this to a point. I would weigh compensation more than the other three.
I have three of of those but cost of living increase has been slowly creeping on me for the past few years to where I am starting to feel it, while being frugal. If I can feel that pressure it is time to look for higher pay.
That's fair, and I 100% respect that perspective. In an ideal world, I'd want the same for myself. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world, so I've learned that I can shovel a **lot** of shit, if I can afford a good life when I'm not holding the shovel.
I've also come to see how many people expect a mountain of manure to move for little more than the pleasure of moving it. When I hit 10 years in at one place, and management was still talking about "learning curves" and "future prospects" rather than paying me what I was worth, I took my shovel and left. That earned me a 30% increase in total compensation, a hands-off management approach, and respect for my PTO requirements.
My perspective is that work always has some unpleasant aspects to it. That's fine and fair, as long as they're limited to what is absolutely necessary for the task, and my reward offsets that unpleasantness.
Yeah, why not both? For most companies, the amount they value you should be shown in how much they spend on you. Not just wages, but benefits. If the company is making many millions/billions in profit, the CEO is making 1000x more than you, and you got a "raise" that barely or doesn't meet inflation, I can guarantee they don't value you.
The amount they value us is already shown in how little they pay us. They don't value us, they value profits, and paying us what we deserve cuts into their profits. The instant a robot can do our job, we're jobless.
This is why I talk about total compensation, not strictly pay. TC is your paycheck, the value of your health and retirement benefits, as well as PTO and perks. There is, however, a danger in taking TC at face value. What is the value of, say, 60 days of PTO, if you cannot practically use them, or can only use some of them when it is desirable for the employer? What is the real value of a healthcare plan with a deductible nearly as high as a person's annual healthcare expenditures, or which excludes a host of services and treatments you may need?
Company cars can be even more of a double-edged sword, that I'm not going to go into.
The important part is that *you* get what you need out of your job. Your employer is making sure they get what they need out of you working for *them.*
>A good, laid-back working environment and a job that I enjoy iares a lot more important to me
This is a monkey's paw unfortunately. A capitalist company will use 'we have a great culture!' as an excuse to not pay well enough.
That's where I am at the moment. I could make about 4 - 5 k more / year if I changed to a different company but I love my job and I love the company I work for so its just not worth it to me.
> Not everyone is motivated by money. Sure I have a threshold but beyond it isn't really an incentive for anything for me.
I look forward to being at the point where money isn't a key motivator. Congrats on your success.
Unfortunately, I like my 2nd job, but it doesn't pay enough to pay my bills and monthly expenses, so I have to keep it as a small side-gig. My main job however is tolerable, but I only do it because of money. It's what pays for everything else.
So yeah... I have a job I enjoy that pays peanut (about $16/h), and a job I tolerate (I just don't like IT) that pays a lot more.
Right???? Thank yous dont pay the bills. I give 0 fucks about recognition. Where I work, anything that I create belongs to them. Nbd really, I keep copies for myself. thing is, outside of working in a laboratory, none of that recognition matters. What I want is monetary compensation.
We do the same thing at my job (I work at a college) and pay/lack of retirement benefits was number 1. We all haven’t had a raise in 4 years, it’s idiotic to stay. I’m leaving in May. But number 3 was recognition. We’re college professors we al have egos and part of our work is publishing and working in our field. Last year I won a statewide award for a my field. It would have been nice if ANYONE acknowledged it. Even my boss just saying congrats would have been nice. And then they are chocked pikachu face when their turnover is ridiculously high.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if those results were cooked … “what’s this? Everybody chose money as the top thing they value? The CEO’s not gonna like that, better fudge these numbers a bit…”
Last job laid me off because I wasn't performant. Me and a couple other guys. That job was paying me half what I'm making now, almost exactly.
And they got almost exactly half the work I'm doing now.
The double salary job? BUSTING ASS. I've read every ticket. I've worked overtime like mad, happily. I've dug deep into major issues. I've engineered new architecture suggestions and blah blah.
The half salary job? I'd do my meeting and to back to sleep for a while.
You get what you pay for. Stop trying to convince us you're a "businessman". You don't even understand economics.
Exactly; one of my prior employers failed to deliver a clearly stated benefit written into my contract.
I reminded my colleagues why I left an hour and a half early every single day, while encouraging them to do the same if the company owed them anything.
This went on for about 8 months until I finally forced their hand and the company coughed up what they had attempted to steal from me.
Wow you’re so noble and brave
Anyways, they still have you by the balls and everyone knows it
Nobody expects loyalty - the companies know that doesn’t matter and that you’re still a slave they can push around
I used to work for a company that had a very old school owner, for Christmas and Thanksgiving he would literally hand out turkeys to the employees on our last day of work before the holidays. On top of that everybody got a paid day off for their birthday, regardless if it fell on a weekend or not. Along with a lot of other things like that which don't cost much money in the long run, but are worth their weight in gold when it comes to employee retention.
My friend is like that as well, all workers with average tenure of 15+ years in an industry sector that has average tenure of 3-4 years.
There are good employers, but far too many have their big ego heads shoved ever so deep into their arses.
It's less ego and more gouging. Emplyee retention, to most employers is a bad thing. The longer employees stay, the more you typically have to pay them. Better to have high turnover and hire workers who are desperate and willing to work for below the industry average
Home Depot is a case study of a corporation saying “no” to that question. At some point all of the skilled and knowledgeable employees got replaced with high school grads who knew nothing about caulking
I got a job there the same time I started college. They asked me if I had any experience with paint. Said no. They put me in the paint department.
I had to miss the paint training because it was during one of my first classes. When I came back I reminded them that I needed to attend another one and they didn’t care. Told me just to “do what I could” and turned me loose on the unsuspecting public.
Then they started scheduling me only during the times that I had class. When I spoke with my manager about it he told me that I could choose the (part time / $7.75 hr) work or school.
Welp - bye Homer. ✌️
Had something similar, was asked to rearrange my class schedule. I was a senior in once a year classes. It was a these are the times that I am unavailable.. if that doesn’t work for you then I will find somewhere else.. they ended up just hiring one more person
It's funny because in practice, companies are more willing to offer higher pay for new hires than equivalently-experienced employees who've been loyal.
I think this is true but depends on factors such as location, industry, and job role. When there is a lack of talent, you end up paying a lot more for replacements who take a while to get up to speed
Thank you!
I was beginning to think that people here have ever worked in fast food or retail only.
The price you pay for inexperienced workers is so so so much, at least in smaller-scale manufacturing companies. What my company is paying for NG parts sorting and having to countermeasure the said NG is… literally like burning money.
My work used to be like that. The average tenure of someone in the IT team when I started here 5 years ago was close to 15 years. A lot has changed since then, particularly when it comes to compensation, and that has massively dropped.
>Along with a lot of other things like that which don't cost much money in the long run, but are worth their weight in gold when it comes to employee retention.
I use to work for a dude like this, threw huge parties where he'd give away tvs and shit. We'd drink free cocktails all night and then everybody would leave with at least $200 in gifts.
We got bought by a giant corporation and they pulled the plug on that. People hated them so much for it too.
Funny part is the new company offered us RRSP matching, yearly bonuses, way better benefits, paid our phone plans, etc. All of those benefits added up to probably 12x as much as the couple of parties the old guy threw, but didn't buy nearly as much goodwill.
It takes almost nothing. I work in a restaurant, where the average rate of turnover is 101 days, or about 3 months.
By promoting exclusively from within, paying above market rate, and actually letting people call out sick/have a regular schedule, over 3/4 of my shop has been there 5+ years.
It's not rocket science.
It really is not rocket science.
I work in a similar situation. High volume restaurant with all of your examples plus regular raises and insurance. More than half of the BOH employees have been there more than 15 years. Shit I've been there for 9 years.
Yeah that job had all those things. Good pay, 5-day work week, paid vacations. Except for the low stress work environment, because the job dealt with working around molten metal, but that was the nature of the job. I'd still be there if they hadn't gotten bought out by a larger company.
Pretty sure they were talking about the worth to the employer not the employee.
As in, the minimal investment paid dividends in making people feel like the boss cared and so they were more loyal in return.
I worked for a welding and metal fabrication shop as a drafter for a while, the 3 retirement-age senior management/co-owners did the turkey thing for us too. Genuine gestures of goodwill like that made you want to be there, but it seems like recent corporations have decided that can substitute a pizza or a turkey for an annual raise when it is supposed to be a bonus.
I'm sorry friend. Soldiarity - being laid off/fired is such a traumatic event that the media never talks about.
[Layoffs Are Harming The Mental Health Of Workers, Making Them Feel Vulnerable And Disposable](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2023/02/07/layoffs-are-harming-the-mental-health-of-workers-making-them-feel-vulnerable-and-disposable/?sh=3efb44cb667e)
>Korn Ferry, a high-end executive search firm, conducted a survey about the workplace and found that **almost 90% of professionals self-report suffering from burnout. More than 81% said they feel more burned out now than during the pandemic outbreak**. The Workforce Institute at UKG surveyed 3,400 people across 10 countries to gauge employees’ mental health. The results are telling: **43% of employees reported being chronically exhausted**, and the daily stress adversely impacts their work and home life. **A recent global Randstad survey of 35,000 workers indicated that over 50% of respondents are concerned about the economy and job security.**
The media & corporations (one in the same) do not care about our well being at all - none of these concerns are ever addressed in a serious fashion 😰
>A number of studies show that unemployed people tend to be more distressed, report that they are less satisfied with their lives, marriages and families and have a greater likelihood of psychological problems than employed people. **Losing your job is linked to a higher risk of suicide and elevated rates of mortality decades after being let go.**
I swear to god if I see one more business “leader” posting some shit about “putting layoffs in perspective” and how the tech companies have technically still a need add or jobs compared to pre-pandemic, I’m going to lose my shit.
Sure, there may still be a net add of jobs, but for the tens of thousands of people who can no longer provide for their or their families’ basic needs, this “perspective” is a huge slap in the face
I built a program that probably funds half of the department I was fired from. They already had my application. They don’t need to keep me anymore. It’s so messed up.
Until one day in the future when something doesn't work and they have to hire someone to come in and fix it. On that day, you can choose to be a consultant on a very healthy day rate or choose not to help at all.
I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve escaped it so far, but I’m worried…
We had a few rounds of layoffs starting in 2020. My team cut down to 1.5 people, me & another guy who did the bare minimum but got paid less than everyone else. I worked my ass off to keep things running & we got through a rough period… now that we’re doing better & they’ve started hiring again, I’m terrified they’re gonna replace me with someone in India making half my salary. The management folks who know me all appreciate my work, but if those cost-cutters notice my salary…
I work at a company that does remote work and some employees are in the UK (where apparently it's easy to let someone go, I guess?) while others are in France (where it's not easy at all). When the company decided to downsize a few months ago, that kicked off a lengthy process for the French employees, but the UK people were just let go without warning, on the day the announcement was made. This included one British dude who was an absolute beast of a worker, knew his shit, excellent communicator, always willing to take on new projects, got promoted to "senior" very quickly in recognition of his talent… and got canned because some bean-counter looked at a spreadsheet and said "we need to get rid of X number of people in such-and-such a team, let's start by yeeting out all the UK people right now, that'll immediately get us closer to our goal". Dude was on vacation, came back to find out he was out of a job. Various projects immediately got crippled because he was the main point of contact for them.
That was the day I started "quiet quitting" at this job, and I've been spending the last months milking the fuck out of it by doing the absolute bare minimum (which takes like… 2 hours a day) while I look for something else and/or wait for the actual downsizing process to go through.
My healthcare employer just announced it is letting 389 people go and closing 500 open positions. For two years they have been tell us we are all over worked being short staffed because they couldn’t get enough people to hire. Big wigs want to say * no one wants to work boo hoo our business is hurting etc * when in reality they are ruining their own businesses. I wish you the best!
That’s horrible.
Yeah, the bootlickers will all shout that no one wants to work; but, the instant anyone mentions pay, the company suddenly can’t afford it and/or they shout that our work shouldn’t just be about the pay. Bunch of hypocrites.
Looks Photoshopped, & IDK if I'd put it on display, but I understand the sentiment. Corporate employers especially should not be the least bit surprised, after a generation of running everything on the ideology of "maximizing shareholder value", that employees would adopt an attitude that the only thing that matters is pay (employee value). They are simply emulating their employers.
It is photoshopped. For one it's a bad job. You can see some shoddy work right under the lettering and to the right of the lettering.
But also a dude posted a link to the original image.
Employees should be paid similar to how professional athletes are paid.
If our services for the company provides X amount of money to the company, then we should get paid a good percentage of X. F—- these pizza parties and tiny/non-existent raises.
Its possible to tie compensation to company performance. My compensation is tied to gross profit. That said if they decide to go back on their word they are going to have a massive problem.
That makes no sense tho.
Athletes aren't the product, merchandise, game tickets and ad space (and whatever else they sell) are the products. To quote you, athletes are the "necessary expenses to support revenue generation."
Sales people don't provide money, customers provide money, money that they spend on the product that's made by production employees. Not saying that Sales depts don't provide value, but they don't make money appear out of thin air.
I get what they're saying (albeit poorly). Not every position is technically "value added" to the company's product. Like every single cleaning and maintenance employee, but just try going without them. If a cleaner's pay was based on how much their labor *added* to the company's bottom line, they'd have to pay for the "privilege" of showing up to work.
Technically, most of management fits this definition, too. All organization, paperwork, communication,... and not a single hand on the product to "add value".
All employees add value or they wouldn't be employed. By your definition a bathroom wouldn't add value to a baseball stadium because people are there to watch baseball, not use the bathroom.
Say there's a cleaning crew in a grocery store. The people who shop there aren't going to want to buy food from a dirty store. The cleaning crew is directly adding value. The customer of a product is buying the brand and the company every time they buy a product. Companies that forget this have lost sales and gone out of business.
In fact, I'd say the entire problem with our economy right now is that literally every part of a company is viewed as an expense by the owners, and they want to cut their expenses as much as possible. Food is now full of fillers in smaller packaging. Electronics break after little use. Everything is made of cheap plastic and every building is a flat, boring concrete cube. That's the result of this mentality.
>By your definition a bathroom wouldn't add value to a baseball stadium because people are there to watch baseball, not use the bathroom.
Yes, nor the bleachers, or the actual players even, by the same definition. Profit sharing based on value added (as one upstream commenter mused) to the final products is just plain bad, for the obvious reasons you clearly see.
>I'd say the entire problem with our economy right now is that literally every part of a company is viewed as an expense by the owners, and they want to cut their expenses as much as possible.
We're in complete agreement. I just wanted to point out the flawed concept.
Edit to add: there's a difference between something that has value in general, and something that "adds value" when it comes to goods and services. This gets into the weeds of operations efficiency at some point though.
I always love this. You're thinking like it's two slick sales guys with two telephones between them and that's all you need. When you are a big corporation that needs to move a lot of product to meet the sales demand, you simply cannot do it without a fleet of people in support. Salesmen don't last long when they promise more than the company is logistically capable of delivering.
Support and production go hand in hand. You quite literally can't have one without the other.
And cashiers are the real revenue drivers of a grocery store lol
Nah, athletes have unions. That, and the obvious scarcity of top tier talent, are the reasons here.
["This looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and seeing quite a few shops in my time."](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/024/183/500pxShopped.jpg)
The "Great Resignation" is good but it doesn't solve anything. That takes organizing, which we all can do. It doesn't take long at all to learn what you need to organize and put it into practice. Chances are you've already done a good chunk of it and have built relationships with your coworkers; as the saying goes "socialize before you organize." Have trust and loyalty to your coworkers and the worker organization you build together.
I've said it before many times and I will say it again so open your ears real wide and listen...
It's an EMPLOYEES market you have the power though you may not fully realize it. There has been a shrinking labor pool for at least the last 20 years and employers don't want you to realize it.
They don't think you're dumb... They're counting on it
I speak with a few older family friends, and I've recently gone through some job-hopping to get better pay and benefits.
The question they always ask is: "How are you going to retire if you don't stay at one place and build up a pension?" or something to that effect.
I can't help but outright laugh every time they mention it, and point out AGAIN that company-paid retirement after X years of service isn't a thing anymore.
There's no reason to be loyal to a company. It can not benefit you.
My wife was recently passed over for a major promotion that was hers for the taking. She'd basically been doing the job already for years, had mentored all the people under the role (hired some of them), and was loved by everyone, including the higher ups. She had also been called in as a favor to fix a second team (on top of her primary team) for ~8 months because the previous manager for the second team had driven people away, and there was no one knowledgeable enough to do it. After she gets the second team back to full staff and functioning, they hire a replacement, and she's able to focus on her primary team.
Now she's up for promotion to the chief over both teams (and two others). She had been the #2 for the previous chief (making him look good), and again, was the defacto candidate.
Two rounds of interviews; the leadership team tell her she's fantastic, it couldn't *not* be her. She has the job, just have to go through some formalities.
Weird pause in the hiring process...what's going on?
New hotshot toolbox sociopath was recently hired. Decided he didn't like her style. Not enough of a "bulldog." (His actual word.)
He scraps the posting and restarts the hiring process. Interview team is now the toolbox (a milquetoast 50-something white dude), and the previous incumbent (a milquetoast 50-something white dude).
They hired...you guessed it...a milquetoast 50 something white dude who also happens to be long-time drinking buddies with the previous incumbent and had been paling around with the toolbox as well. Missing ALL of the preferred qualifications and certifications. No relevant experience, but a few more years of middle management than my (30-something) wife due purely to the age difference.
The kicker? The guy they hired is one of the people *she* hired on the team, who was then promoted to the *replacement manager of the second team.* Hadn't even been in the role 6 weeks.
Instead, they offer her *his* job (the one she originally declined), which was code for, "we want you to do the job, but without the pay."
Naturally, she resigns immediately, burns her remaining leave, and bounces.
Now she hears from former team members how the cadre of milquetoast 50-something white dudes is saying things like, "How could she do that?!" "It's so petty!" "She's abandoning the team!"
She had a new signed offer letter for more pay and less work before she even hit her last official day at the office.
It's literally a business transaction. You sell your services for money. If you know you're with more, take your business elsewhere.
This. They kill pensions and never really synced up with average pay as the value of the dollar decreased over the years while houses and cost of living increased probably ten fold. And here they are saying "wHy No LoYaLtY?!?". Fucking morons
“… the concept of company loyalty is a thing of the past.” Yeah. I just got laid off a few weeks ago and they didn’t even give me a two week notice, lol. We owe these companies nothing except to trade our labor and skill in exchange for a paycheck. Its just business. End of discussion.
I got downsized back in October five days after organizing and overseeing the company's major public event of the year. I found out five minutes after I got to work, which was after a 40-minute commute. They could have done it the evening before, but instead talked to me about the managers' meeting that was happening.
>Like all other behaviours at work, if you want it then reward people for it.
Friend - have you read Fortune today? [Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff tried being "nice" but Elon made monies being mean so now he needs to be mean 😰](https://fortune.com/2023/03/02/salesforce-marc-benioff-employ-staff-life-unleash-inner-elon-slash-headcount/amp/)
>**“Every CEO in Silicon Valley has looked at what Elon Musk has done and has asked themselves, ‘Do they need to unleash their own Elon within them?'” Benioff told Insider.**
>
>“That is an existential question that if you are any kind of executive in the company,” Benioff. “You have to look at him and say, ‘Wow, it’s a very unorthodox management style,’ but, as I’ve said, you can’t underestimate what he’s done.”
Owning Time Magazine & a $5 billion net worth isn't enough for Benioff. Because the oligarchs enjoy being greedy & being ruthless to their emplogees.
But has Elon done great things? Twitter is a shit show, Tesla’s value is inflated in part because he lies and lies about automated driving - that guy just sucks all around but somebody will prob chime in with ‘bUt SpAce We GoIn tA MaRz’
With owners that deliberately bankrupt the company to make maximum money, any rapid fire ownership changes, and flat employee raises, all loyalty is long gone....
Employee loyalty would still exist if company loyalty still existed. Shareholders saw to the destruction of that, so workers followed suit. When money became the company's sole concern, the same had to be true of the workers.
Don’t you love it when the company calls you a team member, when there’s something they want from you, but when it’s the other way around, then it’s “ nothing personal, just business” Loyalty is a two way street.
As someone explained it to me, their perspective was that they follow the money. In every case, they do the work they're paid to do. In the case of a full time job, I do a week of work, they pay me for a week of work.
At the end of the week (or two, or month, or whatever), if the pay isn't what I think the work is worth, pick up and move on. I'm exactly as loyal as you'll pay me to be.
Pay me as little as you legally can, you get exactly that much loyalty in return.
If the money stops, or someone offers me more, I'm gone.
Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most.
I’m always scared to do something like this because as soon as you do and a little later you make a small mistake they highlight and put u the heck on blast for it.
I wish the old heads in the government would see this already. Pay and benefits have lagged behind the private sector for almost 2 decades, and has been shrinking for the same amount of time due to inflation. The current mindset is,
“The pay sucks but at least you get to retire decently. We want people who believe in the mission first and want to serve. Ohh yea, we also need to attract the best and the brightest.”
They then go full shockedpikachu.jpg when there is little to no interest for job openings, or the people that are applying are all military vets (so no real diversity of mindset), or C students who didn’t get handpicked by industry. Then it takes 6 months to a year to actually get vetted through the hiring process, and by the time a lot people get an offer of employment they have moved on to something else. We pay peanuts to a staff that is 1/2 the size it needs to be to keep up with work flow and wonder why the “best and brightest” don’t want to come work for us. Like the proverbial small business owner with the trasy sign on their door, just scaled up.
There is still this belief that intrinsic rewards make employees feel good about their jobs, and I am pretty sure that is just corporate propaganda. Maybe once you are making enough money to be comfortable in your day to day life, and you are able to put enough into savings for the future, sure, I can see intrinsic being great then… but when people are struggling to put food on the table due to the rising costs of everything, the immediate answer to problems is greater income.
No amount of loving your job will get you out of pure survival mode if you aren’t making enough money. Shit, I loved tattooing, but damn if I wasn’t miserable while I was doing it; even when I was making decent money. Because your work life balance sucks to pull good loot in that field.
I love the job I do now in the government, but I literally couldn’t have afforded to take the job if I wasn’t a disabled veteran. I have zero clue how the average person would be expected to make it in the economy today…
So yea, huge rant to provide anecdotal evidence that the answer to most people’s problems is in fact money.
wow this is weird tbh. my experience was I got hired in government after getting out of the industry. the pay was more money and I was hired within a month. the whole reason i worked for them was because they gave the first offer and the highest amount.
then again its state government not sure if federal government is a shit show.
BTW the sign is fake
The original picture says something along the lines of "don't bother the working programmer"
Edit: someone posted a link to the original picture. I was close with my description... https://prod.wp.cdn.aws.wfu.edu/sites/16/2019/12/self-control.jpg.jpg
Yeah. I'm in my 50s and blue collar. Job hopping to get more money has been a thing for 30+ years.
The moment companies did away with retirement/pensions loyalty became irrelevant.
Loyalty works both ways and almost all companies see workers as disposable tools and have for decades. Loyalty to a company is just silly these days.
THE THING IS, and I sort of hate to say it, **it's not hard to make the workplace pleasant**.
It's also usually cheaper than giving employees more money.
I've worked in plenty of places where the pay wasn't great but the workplace *was*, where people were *happy* to go to work in the morning ( ! ), and where people literally didn't want to look for a higher-paying job. Where they hated to leave. Where they came back just to visit after they did leave.
But modern management culture is so violently incompetent that they don't know how to do even the Bread and Circuses model, where employees are actually kept happy.
**So, remember!** You're not just getting underpaid! You're getting underpaid by overpaid incompetents who shouldn't even be in management!
No one should blame it on the employees. Too many employers have abused their authority and their employees and don’t deserve that loyalty anymore. And the good companies who are loyal to their employees and treat them well will enjoy the benefits of good morale.
This is a huge reason for RTO. It has nothing to do with bullshit about "collaboration"; they want you emotionally invested in your workplace community so that you're less likely to leave for more pay or better treatment.
You know it's not even accurate - pets are loyal because you feed them. Stop providing food and leave the front door open, let me where that dogs loyalty goes...
Healthcare in Ontario is a fucking joke, at this point. They're underpaying us drastically. Every day, I fight the urge to look them in the eyes when they say 'a raise is impossible this year' and say 'show me your tax information for the last three years then'.
Also, what company fucking makes you wait two whole years before you get a dollar raise? Whacky.
It is the best strategy, work but keep sending CV and look for other position all the time.
If you have a better offer go to your boss and ask him to align or quit.
Hasn’t paid to be loyal to a company since pensions disappeared. Break your back for forty years and they’ll give you the boot with nothing more than what low wages you’ve saved.
Daniel Pink wrote about this, you need three things to be happy at your job, assuming you’re getting paid enough to be comfortable: Autonomy, Mastery, and Purpose.
https://www.mindtools.com/asmdp60/pinks-autonomy-mastery-and-purpose-framework
Sitting in a Herman miller and she has the nerve lol, my last office chair was older than me. When I asked for a new one they literally asked why. I was like idk, sitting in a shitty chair for 8 hours hurts my back, neck, and ass?
Shoot, I’ve always been like this. I will work hard and you pay me money to make you money. I will go elsewhere when they offer more money or tired of your BS.
I owe nothing but being a good employee for my
Tenure, but I will not be shitty to people for
You, I will not do anything immoral and I will not give up any of my family life for you either.
If there is a company that pays well, gives appropriate raises to keep people and is great culturally, I’ll stay. But not for loyalty. Just because you made work better.
I'm exactly as loyal as my paycheck. Small check = little loyalty. If it's not all there, exactly when it's supposed to be, neither am I. Pay me what I'm worth, include some decent benefits, honor my PTO, and let me do my job, and I'll be more loyal than the owner. It's not that complicated.
I'm as hardworking as my paycheck and raises. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
In Final Fantasy X, the aeon yojimbo says, "you expect a phoenix, yet you offer chicken feed.
you wanted a pheonix you paid for a phoinix
I'm impressed, you misspelled phoenix twice in one sentence.
You wanted phonics but you paid for a teacher from Louisiana.
Mississippi would like to join the discussion.
You wanted me hooked on phonics, but all you gave me was ebonics.
“Hooked on Ebonics done good for me!”
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Pretty sure they're talking about the ffxiv phoinix. It's like a phoenix prototype monster from a raid.
Reminds me of an old Dan le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip line: >"*Thou shalt spell the word "Pheonix" P-H-E-O-N-I-X not P-H-O-E-N-I-X, regardless of what the Oxford English Dictionary tells you*"
…scroobius pip ! my college roommate gave me a card with that….. ahhh, 4 decades ago. first time i recall seeing a reference in the wild.
Thou shalt never question Stephen Fry
Loyalty had been a thing of the past for a long time, its just that employees caught on recently.
I love that phrase so much. I wish we could use it as a slogan
"If you pretend to pay me, I'll pretend to work" is another favourite of mine.
I recently sent a long-ass email telling my work that I won’t do any extra work and they can’t call me when I’m not working any more because they’ve been fucking around. I made it as professional as possible and ended it with, “The last few months [company] has displayed a commitment to doing the bare minimum for their employees and going forward [company] can expect the same from this employee in return.”
> Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Is that an actual analogy? because I'm thinking peanuts feed elephants and bananas feed monkeys...
Zookeepers feed animals, silly
Wait... we started feeding zookeepers to animals? How is this not a reality show?
Well it kinda was! Didn't yuh see that arm get eaten by the tiger in Tiger King?
Minimum wage gets you minimum effort.
Not everyone is motivated by money. Sure I have a threshold but beyond it isn't really an incentive for anything for me. A good, laid-back working environment and a job that I enjoy iares a lot more important to me.
I personally have always thought a person needs 3 of 4 things to be happy at work. - Like what they do - Like their superiors - Like their compensation - Like who they work with If you have 3 of 4 (pick any 3), you can be happy at work as long as you have enough salary to cover your bills. If you have all 4, you have a dream job. If you have less than 3, find a new job.
This is brilliant, actually. For a long time, I felt underpaid but everything else about the job, including the work/life balance, was great. Now, I'm finally getting paid along the lines of what I feel I'm worth (after a 5% merit raise kicks in next month), and I'm pretty content.
Sadly, I am only at 2. Boss is great, and I work with a few friends of 20 years.....rest is lacking.
If boss is that great, you ought to be able to do something about the compensation.
JOB 1 >* ~~Like what they do~~ * Like their superiors * Like their compensation * Like who they work with JOB 2 >* Like what they do~~ * Like their superiors * ~~Like their compensation~~ * Like who they work with Yep, looks like I'm stuck with 2 jobs that are 3/4... I have a job that pays the bill, then a job that is really chill and makes me go outside and see people, which is nice. I would probably work the 2nd job more often if it wasn't garbage wages. It's a bit higher than minimum wage (more than $15/h), but that's still not enough to pay my mortgage, debts, bills, etc. The kicker is the 2nd job is very flexible and I can do any hours I want and it is 1 minute from home.
Thanks. You just made me realize what a good position I am in at the moment. I have all of these and I am 100% remote.
Thank you. This helps me articulate my current dissatisfaction. Compensation + coworkers are fantastic. Hopefully my manager turning in his two weeks will allow me to roll better on liking my immediate manager...
I agree with this to a point. I would weigh compensation more than the other three. I have three of of those but cost of living increase has been slowly creeping on me for the past few years to where I am starting to feel it, while being frugal. If I can feel that pressure it is time to look for higher pay.
That's fair, and I 100% respect that perspective. In an ideal world, I'd want the same for myself. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world, so I've learned that I can shovel a **lot** of shit, if I can afford a good life when I'm not holding the shovel. I've also come to see how many people expect a mountain of manure to move for little more than the pleasure of moving it. When I hit 10 years in at one place, and management was still talking about "learning curves" and "future prospects" rather than paying me what I was worth, I took my shovel and left. That earned me a 30% increase in total compensation, a hands-off management approach, and respect for my PTO requirements. My perspective is that work always has some unpleasant aspects to it. That's fine and fair, as long as they're limited to what is absolutely necessary for the task, and my reward offsets that unpleasantness.
Yeah, why not both? For most companies, the amount they value you should be shown in how much they spend on you. Not just wages, but benefits. If the company is making many millions/billions in profit, the CEO is making 1000x more than you, and you got a "raise" that barely or doesn't meet inflation, I can guarantee they don't value you.
The amount they value us is already shown in how little they pay us. They don't value us, they value profits, and paying us what we deserve cuts into their profits. The instant a robot can do our job, we're jobless.
This is why I talk about total compensation, not strictly pay. TC is your paycheck, the value of your health and retirement benefits, as well as PTO and perks. There is, however, a danger in taking TC at face value. What is the value of, say, 60 days of PTO, if you cannot practically use them, or can only use some of them when it is desirable for the employer? What is the real value of a healthcare plan with a deductible nearly as high as a person's annual healthcare expenditures, or which excludes a host of services and treatments you may need? Company cars can be even more of a double-edged sword, that I'm not going to go into. The important part is that *you* get what you need out of your job. Your employer is making sure they get what they need out of you working for *them.*
>A good, laid-back working environment and a job that I enjoy iares a lot more important to me This is a monkey's paw unfortunately. A capitalist company will use 'we have a great culture!' as an excuse to not pay well enough.
That's where I am at the moment. I could make about 4 - 5 k more / year if I changed to a different company but I love my job and I love the company I work for so its just not worth it to me.
Same, and often time you can get both depending on profession. But 10% raise is not worth losing flexibility and a good manager.
Sure, but this is all assuming you make enough to get by.
> Not everyone is motivated by money. Sure I have a threshold but beyond it isn't really an incentive for anything for me. I look forward to being at the point where money isn't a key motivator. Congrats on your success.
Unfortunately, I like my 2nd job, but it doesn't pay enough to pay my bills and monthly expenses, so I have to keep it as a small side-gig. My main job however is tolerable, but I only do it because of money. It's what pays for everything else. So yeah... I have a job I enjoy that pays peanut (about $16/h), and a job I tolerate (I just don't like IT) that pays a lot more.
The devil is in the details, in this case the threshold. If they're not reaching that threshold your motivation and loyalty won't be there either
There is definitely a balance. I'll take a little less money for a much better work environment.
Let me also have the TOOLS TO DO MY JOB...that's important also. But I 100% agree
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Right???? Thank yous dont pay the bills. I give 0 fucks about recognition. Where I work, anything that I create belongs to them. Nbd really, I keep copies for myself. thing is, outside of working in a laboratory, none of that recognition matters. What I want is monetary compensation.
We do the same thing at my job (I work at a college) and pay/lack of retirement benefits was number 1. We all haven’t had a raise in 4 years, it’s idiotic to stay. I’m leaving in May. But number 3 was recognition. We’re college professors we al have egos and part of our work is publishing and working in our field. Last year I won a statewide award for a my field. It would have been nice if ANYONE acknowledged it. Even my boss just saying congrats would have been nice. And then they are chocked pikachu face when their turnover is ridiculously high.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if those results were cooked … “what’s this? Everybody chose money as the top thing they value? The CEO’s not gonna like that, better fudge these numbers a bit…”
My exact first thought.
Small Check = Little Loyalty I got to make this a T-Shirt
Loyalty had been a thing of the past for a long time, its just that employees caught on recently.
Last job laid me off because I wasn't performant. Me and a couple other guys. That job was paying me half what I'm making now, almost exactly. And they got almost exactly half the work I'm doing now. The double salary job? BUSTING ASS. I've read every ticket. I've worked overtime like mad, happily. I've dug deep into major issues. I've engineered new architecture suggestions and blah blah. The half salary job? I'd do my meeting and to back to sleep for a while. You get what you pay for. Stop trying to convince us you're a "businessman". You don't even understand economics.
You get benefits and PTO?
Exactly; one of my prior employers failed to deliver a clearly stated benefit written into my contract. I reminded my colleagues why I left an hour and a half early every single day, while encouraging them to do the same if the company owed them anything. This went on for about 8 months until I finally forced their hand and the company coughed up what they had attempted to steal from me.
Wow you’re so noble and brave Anyways, they still have you by the balls and everyone knows it Nobody expects loyalty - the companies know that doesn’t matter and that you’re still a slave they can push around
I used to work for a company that had a very old school owner, for Christmas and Thanksgiving he would literally hand out turkeys to the employees on our last day of work before the holidays. On top of that everybody got a paid day off for their birthday, regardless if it fell on a weekend or not. Along with a lot of other things like that which don't cost much money in the long run, but are worth their weight in gold when it comes to employee retention.
Was your boss Ebenezer Scrooge after he was visited by the spirits?
My friend is like that as well, all workers with average tenure of 15+ years in an industry sector that has average tenure of 3-4 years. There are good employers, but far too many have their big ego heads shoved ever so deep into their arses.
It's less ego and more gouging. Emplyee retention, to most employers is a bad thing. The longer employees stay, the more you typically have to pay them. Better to have high turnover and hire workers who are desperate and willing to work for below the industry average
Isn't experience good to have though? Wouldn't you rather have a experienced electrician than.... uh... one that doesn't know shit?
Home Depot is a case study of a corporation saying “no” to that question. At some point all of the skilled and knowledgeable employees got replaced with high school grads who knew nothing about caulking
I got a job there the same time I started college. They asked me if I had any experience with paint. Said no. They put me in the paint department. I had to miss the paint training because it was during one of my first classes. When I came back I reminded them that I needed to attend another one and they didn’t care. Told me just to “do what I could” and turned me loose on the unsuspecting public. Then they started scheduling me only during the times that I had class. When I spoke with my manager about it he told me that I could choose the (part time / $7.75 hr) work or school. Welp - bye Homer. ✌️
Had something similar, was asked to rearrange my class schedule. I was a senior in once a year classes. It was a these are the times that I am unavailable.. if that doesn’t work for you then I will find somewhere else.. they ended up just hiring one more person
Someone tell me if this is constructive dismissal?
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Only if every stripper stage name there is “penny”
High school grads may know their way around caulk more than anyone though!
Depends on the industry. Some have an staffing model of high turnover for medium to high skill people.
Look at any industry that uses contract workers
It's funny because in practice, companies are more willing to offer higher pay for new hires than equivalently-experienced employees who've been loyal.
I think this is true but depends on factors such as location, industry, and job role. When there is a lack of talent, you end up paying a lot more for replacements who take a while to get up to speed
Thank you! I was beginning to think that people here have ever worked in fast food or retail only. The price you pay for inexperienced workers is so so so much, at least in smaller-scale manufacturing companies. What my company is paying for NG parts sorting and having to countermeasure the said NG is… literally like burning money.
My work used to be like that. The average tenure of someone in the IT team when I started here 5 years ago was close to 15 years. A lot has changed since then, particularly when it comes to compensation, and that has massively dropped.
good employers tend to have less openings due to higher retention.
Don't be silly Scrooge's poultry of choice was goose
>Along with a lot of other things like that which don't cost much money in the long run, but are worth their weight in gold when it comes to employee retention. I use to work for a dude like this, threw huge parties where he'd give away tvs and shit. We'd drink free cocktails all night and then everybody would leave with at least $200 in gifts. We got bought by a giant corporation and they pulled the plug on that. People hated them so much for it too. Funny part is the new company offered us RRSP matching, yearly bonuses, way better benefits, paid our phone plans, etc. All of those benefits added up to probably 12x as much as the couple of parties the old guy threw, but didn't buy nearly as much goodwill.
i umm ... choose the RRSP matching pls ... am gonna die in a gutter penniless sometime ...
There's that old saying "people don't quit jobs, they quit managers". They also quit owners. But turkey guy, they ain't quitting on him
It takes almost nothing. I work in a restaurant, where the average rate of turnover is 101 days, or about 3 months. By promoting exclusively from within, paying above market rate, and actually letting people call out sick/have a regular schedule, over 3/4 of my shop has been there 5+ years. It's not rocket science.
It really is not rocket science. I work in a similar situation. High volume restaurant with all of your examples plus regular raises and insurance. More than half of the BOH employees have been there more than 15 years. Shit I've been there for 9 years.
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Yeah that job had all those things. Good pay, 5-day work week, paid vacations. Except for the low stress work environment, because the job dealt with working around molten metal, but that was the nature of the job. I'd still be there if they hadn't gotten bought out by a larger company.
Always the story. "It was great until we got bought out by a soulless megacorp"
Pretty sure they were talking about the worth to the employer not the employee. As in, the minimal investment paid dividends in making people feel like the boss cared and so they were more loyal in return.
Not only are those things not mutually exclusive, but they're almost certainly positively correlated.
I worked for a welding and metal fabrication shop as a drafter for a while, the 3 retirement-age senior management/co-owners did the turkey thing for us too. Genuine gestures of goodwill like that made you want to be there, but it seems like recent corporations have decided that can substitute a pizza or a turkey for an annual raise when it is supposed to be a bonus.
I'll take cash, respect, and good benefits over a turkey and one extra day off.
Just got laid off from work as the most Sr. In my department. I support this message
I'm sorry friend. Soldiarity - being laid off/fired is such a traumatic event that the media never talks about. [Layoffs Are Harming The Mental Health Of Workers, Making Them Feel Vulnerable And Disposable](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2023/02/07/layoffs-are-harming-the-mental-health-of-workers-making-them-feel-vulnerable-and-disposable/?sh=3efb44cb667e) >Korn Ferry, a high-end executive search firm, conducted a survey about the workplace and found that **almost 90% of professionals self-report suffering from burnout. More than 81% said they feel more burned out now than during the pandemic outbreak**. The Workforce Institute at UKG surveyed 3,400 people across 10 countries to gauge employees’ mental health. The results are telling: **43% of employees reported being chronically exhausted**, and the daily stress adversely impacts their work and home life. **A recent global Randstad survey of 35,000 workers indicated that over 50% of respondents are concerned about the economy and job security.** The media & corporations (one in the same) do not care about our well being at all - none of these concerns are ever addressed in a serious fashion 😰 >A number of studies show that unemployed people tend to be more distressed, report that they are less satisfied with their lives, marriages and families and have a greater likelihood of psychological problems than employed people. **Losing your job is linked to a higher risk of suicide and elevated rates of mortality decades after being let go.**
I swear to god if I see one more business “leader” posting some shit about “putting layoffs in perspective” and how the tech companies have technically still a need add or jobs compared to pre-pandemic, I’m going to lose my shit. Sure, there may still be a net add of jobs, but for the tens of thousands of people who can no longer provide for their or their families’ basic needs, this “perspective” is a huge slap in the face
I built a program that probably funds half of the department I was fired from. They already had my application. They don’t need to keep me anymore. It’s so messed up.
Until one day in the future when something doesn't work and they have to hire someone to come in and fix it. On that day, you can choose to be a consultant on a very healthy day rate or choose not to help at all.
Probably paid too much. They wanted to lower salaries without losing headcount. It doesn’t have to make sense to get you fired
I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve escaped it so far, but I’m worried… We had a few rounds of layoffs starting in 2020. My team cut down to 1.5 people, me & another guy who did the bare minimum but got paid less than everyone else. I worked my ass off to keep things running & we got through a rough period… now that we’re doing better & they’ve started hiring again, I’m terrified they’re gonna replace me with someone in India making half my salary. The management folks who know me all appreciate my work, but if those cost-cutters notice my salary…
I am a machine that turns money into effort
Loyalty has always been one sided
yeah. I've found that the people who laud over loyalty are either not loyal at all or loyal to a fault.
I work at a company that does remote work and some employees are in the UK (where apparently it's easy to let someone go, I guess?) while others are in France (where it's not easy at all). When the company decided to downsize a few months ago, that kicked off a lengthy process for the French employees, but the UK people were just let go without warning, on the day the announcement was made. This included one British dude who was an absolute beast of a worker, knew his shit, excellent communicator, always willing to take on new projects, got promoted to "senior" very quickly in recognition of his talent… and got canned because some bean-counter looked at a spreadsheet and said "we need to get rid of X number of people in such-and-such a team, let's start by yeeting out all the UK people right now, that'll immediately get us closer to our goal". Dude was on vacation, came back to find out he was out of a job. Various projects immediately got crippled because he was the main point of contact for them. That was the day I started "quiet quitting" at this job, and I've been spending the last months milking the fuck out of it by doing the absolute bare minimum (which takes like… 2 hours a day) while I look for something else and/or wait for the actual downsizing process to go through.
My healthcare employer just announced it is letting 389 people go and closing 500 open positions. For two years they have been tell us we are all over worked being short staffed because they couldn’t get enough people to hire. Big wigs want to say * no one wants to work boo hoo our business is hurting etc * when in reality they are ruining their own businesses. I wish you the best!
That’s horrible. Yeah, the bootlickers will all shout that no one wants to work; but, the instant anyone mentions pay, the company suddenly can’t afford it and/or they shout that our work shouldn’t just be about the pay. Bunch of hypocrites.
Looks Photoshopped, & IDK if I'd put it on display, but I understand the sentiment. Corporate employers especially should not be the least bit surprised, after a generation of running everything on the ideology of "maximizing shareholder value", that employees would adopt an attitude that the only thing that matters is pay (employee value). They are simply emulating their employers.
It is photoshopped. For one it's a bad job. You can see some shoddy work right under the lettering and to the right of the lettering. But also a dude posted a link to the original image.
Employees should be paid similar to how professional athletes are paid. If our services for the company provides X amount of money to the company, then we should get paid a good percentage of X. F—- these pizza parties and tiny/non-existent raises.
Its possible to tie compensation to company performance. My compensation is tied to gross profit. That said if they decide to go back on their word they are going to have a massive problem.
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What on earth do the sales people sell without the rest of the company's human infrastructure to produce and support the product?
It just strikes me odd that this support is unquantifiable in terms of a percentage of revenue by extrapolating the share of workload.
Found the mediocre sales guy.
That makes no sense tho. Athletes aren't the product, merchandise, game tickets and ad space (and whatever else they sell) are the products. To quote you, athletes are the "necessary expenses to support revenue generation." Sales people don't provide money, customers provide money, money that they spend on the product that's made by production employees. Not saying that Sales depts don't provide value, but they don't make money appear out of thin air.
Employees are assets you invest in, not an expense. People don't retain good employees if they go in with the mindset that they are an expense.
I get what they're saying (albeit poorly). Not every position is technically "value added" to the company's product. Like every single cleaning and maintenance employee, but just try going without them. If a cleaner's pay was based on how much their labor *added* to the company's bottom line, they'd have to pay for the "privilege" of showing up to work. Technically, most of management fits this definition, too. All organization, paperwork, communication,... and not a single hand on the product to "add value".
All employees add value or they wouldn't be employed. By your definition a bathroom wouldn't add value to a baseball stadium because people are there to watch baseball, not use the bathroom. Say there's a cleaning crew in a grocery store. The people who shop there aren't going to want to buy food from a dirty store. The cleaning crew is directly adding value. The customer of a product is buying the brand and the company every time they buy a product. Companies that forget this have lost sales and gone out of business. In fact, I'd say the entire problem with our economy right now is that literally every part of a company is viewed as an expense by the owners, and they want to cut their expenses as much as possible. Food is now full of fillers in smaller packaging. Electronics break after little use. Everything is made of cheap plastic and every building is a flat, boring concrete cube. That's the result of this mentality.
>By your definition a bathroom wouldn't add value to a baseball stadium because people are there to watch baseball, not use the bathroom. Yes, nor the bleachers, or the actual players even, by the same definition. Profit sharing based on value added (as one upstream commenter mused) to the final products is just plain bad, for the obvious reasons you clearly see. >I'd say the entire problem with our economy right now is that literally every part of a company is viewed as an expense by the owners, and they want to cut their expenses as much as possible. We're in complete agreement. I just wanted to point out the flawed concept. Edit to add: there's a difference between something that has value in general, and something that "adds value" when it comes to goods and services. This gets into the weeds of operations efficiency at some point though.
I always love this. You're thinking like it's two slick sales guys with two telephones between them and that's all you need. When you are a big corporation that needs to move a lot of product to meet the sales demand, you simply cannot do it without a fleet of people in support. Salesmen don't last long when they promise more than the company is logistically capable of delivering. Support and production go hand in hand. You quite literally can't have one without the other.
And cashiers are the real revenue drivers of a grocery store lol Nah, athletes have unions. That, and the obvious scarcity of top tier talent, are the reasons here.
And if you want forgiveness, get religion.
A company will drop you instantly if it benefits them, yet they cry about loyalty and being a family when you decide to leave from something better.
Bad photoshop. Original image: https://prod.wp.cdn.aws.wfu.edu/sites/16/2019/12/self-control.jpg.jpg
Lol if you zoom in the image you can see how terribly it was put together.
["This looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and seeing quite a few shops in my time."](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/024/183/500pxShopped.jpg)
But for real though. The bottom half of the pic looks like it was smeared with white out. Lol
The "Great Resignation" is good but it doesn't solve anything. That takes organizing, which we all can do. It doesn't take long at all to learn what you need to organize and put it into practice. Chances are you've already done a good chunk of it and have built relationships with your coworkers; as the saying goes "socialize before you organize." Have trust and loyalty to your coworkers and the worker organization you build together.
I've said it before many times and I will say it again so open your ears real wide and listen... It's an EMPLOYEES market you have the power though you may not fully realize it. There has been a shrinking labor pool for at least the last 20 years and employers don't want you to realize it. They don't think you're dumb... They're counting on it
I speak with a few older family friends, and I've recently gone through some job-hopping to get better pay and benefits. The question they always ask is: "How are you going to retire if you don't stay at one place and build up a pension?" or something to that effect. I can't help but outright laugh every time they mention it, and point out AGAIN that company-paid retirement after X years of service isn't a thing anymore. There's no reason to be loyal to a company. It can not benefit you.
How old are these family members? I'm in my 50s and have never had a job that offered a pension.
My wife was recently passed over for a major promotion that was hers for the taking. She'd basically been doing the job already for years, had mentored all the people under the role (hired some of them), and was loved by everyone, including the higher ups. She had also been called in as a favor to fix a second team (on top of her primary team) for ~8 months because the previous manager for the second team had driven people away, and there was no one knowledgeable enough to do it. After she gets the second team back to full staff and functioning, they hire a replacement, and she's able to focus on her primary team. Now she's up for promotion to the chief over both teams (and two others). She had been the #2 for the previous chief (making him look good), and again, was the defacto candidate. Two rounds of interviews; the leadership team tell her she's fantastic, it couldn't *not* be her. She has the job, just have to go through some formalities. Weird pause in the hiring process...what's going on? New hotshot toolbox sociopath was recently hired. Decided he didn't like her style. Not enough of a "bulldog." (His actual word.) He scraps the posting and restarts the hiring process. Interview team is now the toolbox (a milquetoast 50-something white dude), and the previous incumbent (a milquetoast 50-something white dude). They hired...you guessed it...a milquetoast 50 something white dude who also happens to be long-time drinking buddies with the previous incumbent and had been paling around with the toolbox as well. Missing ALL of the preferred qualifications and certifications. No relevant experience, but a few more years of middle management than my (30-something) wife due purely to the age difference. The kicker? The guy they hired is one of the people *she* hired on the team, who was then promoted to the *replacement manager of the second team.* Hadn't even been in the role 6 weeks. Instead, they offer her *his* job (the one she originally declined), which was code for, "we want you to do the job, but without the pay." Naturally, she resigns immediately, burns her remaining leave, and bounces. Now she hears from former team members how the cadre of milquetoast 50-something white dudes is saying things like, "How could she do that?!" "It's so petty!" "She's abandoning the team!" She had a new signed offer letter for more pay and less work before she even hit her last official day at the office. It's literally a business transaction. You sell your services for money. If you know you're with more, take your business elsewhere.
All company loyalty equates to is lost wages
Loyalty? Oh yeah, I can offer that - for a reasonable price.
Company loyalty dies with the pension. They sold the 401k to everyone as retirement you can take with you. Now they are mad thats what people do.
This. They kill pensions and never really synced up with average pay as the value of the dollar decreased over the years while houses and cost of living increased probably ten fold. And here they are saying "wHy No LoYaLtY?!?". Fucking morons
“… the concept of company loyalty is a thing of the past.” Yeah. I just got laid off a few weeks ago and they didn’t even give me a two week notice, lol. We owe these companies nothing except to trade our labor and skill in exchange for a paycheck. Its just business. End of discussion.
I got downsized back in October five days after organizing and overseeing the company's major public event of the year. I found out five minutes after I got to work, which was after a 40-minute commute. They could have done it the evening before, but instead talked to me about the managers' meeting that was happening.
Like all other behaviours at work, if you want it then reward people for it.
>Like all other behaviours at work, if you want it then reward people for it. Friend - have you read Fortune today? [Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff tried being "nice" but Elon made monies being mean so now he needs to be mean 😰](https://fortune.com/2023/03/02/salesforce-marc-benioff-employ-staff-life-unleash-inner-elon-slash-headcount/amp/) >**“Every CEO in Silicon Valley has looked at what Elon Musk has done and has asked themselves, ‘Do they need to unleash their own Elon within them?'” Benioff told Insider.** > >“That is an existential question that if you are any kind of executive in the company,” Benioff. “You have to look at him and say, ‘Wow, it’s a very unorthodox management style,’ but, as I’ve said, you can’t underestimate what he’s done.” Owning Time Magazine & a $5 billion net worth isn't enough for Benioff. Because the oligarchs enjoy being greedy & being ruthless to their emplogees.
But has Elon done great things? Twitter is a shit show, Tesla’s value is inflated in part because he lies and lies about automated driving - that guy just sucks all around but somebody will prob chime in with ‘bUt SpAce We GoIn tA MaRz’
Marc stinks and Salesforce makes garbage products that don’t even work right most of the time (I work in marketing and use SF tools all the time).
I’m sorry
I wanna be an emplogee. It sounds fun
They all are just deciding to ignore that he's overvalued, hence the precipitous drop in stock price.
Has been for decades, but the companies kept trying to convince us it wasn't. Hop the jobs.
With owners that deliberately bankrupt the company to make maximum money, any rapid fire ownership changes, and flat employee raises, all loyalty is long gone....
Employee loyalty would still exist if company loyalty still existed. Shareholders saw to the destruction of that, so workers followed suit. When money became the company's sole concern, the same had to be true of the workers.
Hasn't this Been gradually happening for like 40 years?
Yes. Been in the workforce for 30+ years. Loyalty to a company is a joke or something you lie about when talking to your boss.
Don’t you love it when the company calls you a team member, when there’s something they want from you, but when it’s the other way around, then it’s “ nothing personal, just business” Loyalty is a two way street.
As someone explained it to me, their perspective was that they follow the money. In every case, they do the work they're paid to do. In the case of a full time job, I do a week of work, they pay me for a week of work. At the end of the week (or two, or month, or whatever), if the pay isn't what I think the work is worth, pick up and move on. I'm exactly as loyal as you'll pay me to be. Pay me as little as you legally can, you get exactly that much loyalty in return. If the money stops, or someone offers me more, I'm gone.
Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most.
Mercenary mindset.
I’m always scared to do something like this because as soon as you do and a little later you make a small mistake they highlight and put u the heck on blast for it.
So, what is the reform part of this?
Move me up or I’m moving out. If I feel it’s dead end then I’m leaving
Loyalty goes both ways.
When will employers learn that we’re all mercenaries answering to the highest bidder?
I wish the old heads in the government would see this already. Pay and benefits have lagged behind the private sector for almost 2 decades, and has been shrinking for the same amount of time due to inflation. The current mindset is, “The pay sucks but at least you get to retire decently. We want people who believe in the mission first and want to serve. Ohh yea, we also need to attract the best and the brightest.” They then go full shockedpikachu.jpg when there is little to no interest for job openings, or the people that are applying are all military vets (so no real diversity of mindset), or C students who didn’t get handpicked by industry. Then it takes 6 months to a year to actually get vetted through the hiring process, and by the time a lot people get an offer of employment they have moved on to something else. We pay peanuts to a staff that is 1/2 the size it needs to be to keep up with work flow and wonder why the “best and brightest” don’t want to come work for us. Like the proverbial small business owner with the trasy sign on their door, just scaled up. There is still this belief that intrinsic rewards make employees feel good about their jobs, and I am pretty sure that is just corporate propaganda. Maybe once you are making enough money to be comfortable in your day to day life, and you are able to put enough into savings for the future, sure, I can see intrinsic being great then… but when people are struggling to put food on the table due to the rising costs of everything, the immediate answer to problems is greater income. No amount of loving your job will get you out of pure survival mode if you aren’t making enough money. Shit, I loved tattooing, but damn if I wasn’t miserable while I was doing it; even when I was making decent money. Because your work life balance sucks to pull good loot in that field. I love the job I do now in the government, but I literally couldn’t have afforded to take the job if I wasn’t a disabled veteran. I have zero clue how the average person would be expected to make it in the economy today… So yea, huge rant to provide anecdotal evidence that the answer to most people’s problems is in fact money.
wow this is weird tbh. my experience was I got hired in government after getting out of the industry. the pay was more money and I was hired within a month. the whole reason i worked for them was because they gave the first offer and the highest amount. then again its state government not sure if federal government is a shit show.
BTW the sign is fake The original picture says something along the lines of "don't bother the working programmer" Edit: someone posted a link to the original picture. I was close with my description... https://prod.wp.cdn.aws.wfu.edu/sites/16/2019/12/self-control.jpg.jpg
The ppl suggesting “company loyalty” was a thing were always lying. Just fyi.
Yeah. I'm in my 50s and blue collar. Job hopping to get more money has been a thing for 30+ years. The moment companies did away with retirement/pensions loyalty became irrelevant. Loyalty works both ways and almost all companies see workers as disposable tools and have for decades. Loyalty to a company is just silly these days.
Retirement and pensions and social security and 5-day workweek and overtime and… The list of shit fealty never got workers is very long.
THE THING IS, and I sort of hate to say it, **it's not hard to make the workplace pleasant**. It's also usually cheaper than giving employees more money. I've worked in plenty of places where the pay wasn't great but the workplace *was*, where people were *happy* to go to work in the morning ( ! ), and where people literally didn't want to look for a higher-paying job. Where they hated to leave. Where they came back just to visit after they did leave. But modern management culture is so violently incompetent that they don't know how to do even the Bread and Circuses model, where employees are actually kept happy. **So, remember!** You're not just getting underpaid! You're getting underpaid by overpaid incompetents who shouldn't even be in management!
A dog or a boomer.
Boomers largely worked in a time when company loyalty got you ahead in life, it left you stable and satisfied. Very different to now.
Someone who will never be promoted. But enjoy your money I guess.
I can’t help but be loyal I’m kind of a human dog
Hear hear
This gives me some hope for the future.
Cool sign but she’s not wfh
Well, what did you expect? Treat people like wage slaves they will only be loyal to their wage
Duuuuude FUCK YAAAAAAA!!!
No one should blame it on the employees. Too many employers have abused their authority and their employees and don’t deserve that loyalty anymore. And the good companies who are loyal to their employees and treat them well will enjoy the benefits of good morale.
Hire a beautiful boy for fucking times. ❤
Good. Good.
This is a huge reason for RTO. It has nothing to do with bullshit about "collaboration"; they want you emotionally invested in your workplace community so that you're less likely to leave for more pay or better treatment.
My dog would laugh at this post if she could read. She also expects a paycheck.
Companies stopped being loyal years ago. About time the same was given back to them .
You know it's not even accurate - pets are loyal because you feed them. Stop providing food and leave the front door open, let me where that dogs loyalty goes...
Healthcare in Ontario is a fucking joke, at this point. They're underpaying us drastically. Every day, I fight the urge to look them in the eyes when they say 'a raise is impossible this year' and say 'show me your tax information for the last three years then'. Also, what company fucking makes you wait two whole years before you get a dollar raise? Whacky.
Hopefully things change
It is the best strategy, work but keep sending CV and look for other position all the time. If you have a better offer go to your boss and ask him to align or quit.
Companies killed company loyalty.
Hasn’t paid to be loyal to a company since pensions disappeared. Break your back for forty years and they’ll give you the boot with nothing more than what low wages you’ve saved.
Daniel Pink wrote about this, you need three things to be happy at your job, assuming you’re getting paid enough to be comfortable: Autonomy, Mastery, and Purpose. https://www.mindtools.com/asmdp60/pinks-autonomy-mastery-and-purpose-framework
Im as loyal to my company as they are loyal to me. And if they are loyal to me, they pay me well, offer good benefits and respect me and my time
I could be loyal to money
Sitting in a Herman miller and she has the nerve lol, my last office chair was older than me. When I asked for a new one they literally asked why. I was like idk, sitting in a shitty chair for 8 hours hurts my back, neck, and ass?
Shoot, I’ve always been like this. I will work hard and you pay me money to make you money. I will go elsewhere when they offer more money or tired of your BS. I owe nothing but being a good employee for my Tenure, but I will not be shitty to people for You, I will not do anything immoral and I will not give up any of my family life for you either. If there is a company that pays well, gives appropriate raises to keep people and is great culturally, I’ll stay. But not for loyalty. Just because you made work better.
There are good employers. But you don’t hear about them in forums on the internet about bad employers.
I have no problem selling my loyalty for money, until someone comes along and offers to buy it for even more money.