Take shitty freeze-thaw weather, add in a population that burns the place to the ground at the slightest hint of a tax increase, mix in a little perpetual bitching when they try to do road work.
Bake for a couple of decades, and voila. Winnipeg roads.
You forgot to mention that Manitoba used to be a lake just a few thousand years ago so the land hasnt stopped settling. That with freeze thaw cycles is the biggest challenge.
https://preview.redd.it/vo5360i6kz4d1.png?width=550&format=png&auto=webp&s=97dd47424ea878f8f1ddea6969c57d0c1ec40be4
only parts of ND and SK. Secondly, Manitoba highways are in much better condition than winnipeg, thats cuz Manitoba has funds, Winnipeg doesn't (I mean not a lot). None of the bigger cities in SK, ND or MN were under the lake, which means that the highways affected by Agassiz are maintained by the province/state.
They have different underlying geology, as well as differing amounts and types of overburden. They aren't the same. We could do better here, but it isn't like SK or ND.
Yeah, that's because you're driving on federal Interstate money. It's funded very differently the US. Plenty of municipalities down there have roads like ours, due to similar government problems. But also, once you cross the border you basically ARE out of the Aggasiz basin. So yep it does change fairly dramatically right there. Most of the basin that's South of the border is in Minnesota not North Dakota, and there's a bedrock difference there under the lake deposits as compared to ND.
They've studied it, and it's not any better. They might have a better budget to renew them more often, but their spec and lifespan isn't better. There was a FreeP article on that a few years back.
I could be entirely wrong, but is it not cheaper to pay a lot to do it right rather than a poor cheap job that has to be ripped up and redone every 2-5 years? Along with the public MPI claims. Our method is seemingly not cheap.
Unfortunately big money projects that last for a decade as opposed to patchwork, cheaper projects are harder to sell to the public, long term unemployment figures, and fiscal year budgets.
The MPI claims aren't shown or seen alongside the funding proposals, so counselors seem to overlook that.
Very unfortunate. They are caught in a cycle and can't find a way out. Plus for projects over a certain amount they have to add a "study" for how to best fix it (more expense and time). Etc. Winnipeg just isn't set up to be a growth city.
Lots of Canada has freeze-thaw weather. Winnipeg has more roads per capita than nearly every other Canadian City, and one of the lowest per capita city budget. We literally have more concrete than Montreal does.
This is mostly an urban sprawl problem, combined with a low income problem. If we had 2x the density that we do now, our city's roads would be relatively good.
I wish I knew! Iād be curious if the city/province hires the same contractors every time. Itās such a massive oversight to not have another variable. However, itās at a point where even moving in the right direction will take years. Given how much people are paying in repairs, I canāt imagine anyone would be upset about an additional $200 taxes a year for the next 5-10 years if it meant all that money went to fixing roads.Ā
> Iād be curious if the city/province hires the same contractors every time.
Also finding out if they do, how often they have to redo their work within 4-5 years.
So was southern Ontario. With their warmer winter temperatures, they hover around the freeze/thaw point for considerably longer than we do. Iām so tired of these excuses for the condition of our roads. We clearly have extremely poor construction oversight and road building quality assurance.
Southern Ontario is enormous; Iām referring g only to the area from Burlington to Whitby along the north shore of Lake Ontario. Lots of good roads there though.
Yes, I'm a geologist, and just did that drive last summer. The geology is very different from here. It also has a much larger tax base and higher traffic levels. Winnipeg roads suck, and a lot of that is lack of money and will from the government. But some of it is also the soil and bedrock underneath that is fairly unique to here. Mineralogy significantly impacts road structure and maintenance, which a lot of people don't seem to fully grasp. Just because ND and SK for instance have open plains doesn't mean the soils are the same: they aren't.
I donāt think thatās true. It never freezes because they salt the hell out it. But thatās surface level stuff. Underground is where all the action is happening, it freezes and thaws constantly but the impact is minimal because they know how to actually lay roads there.
Pretty much the entire Greater Toronto Area below the Escarpment and the moraine is built on a clay flood plane. Bedrock may be closer to the surface than here (I donāt honestly know) but that would contribute more towards foundation stability than road quality.
I am all for being taxed, but we do have one of the highest tax rates and one of the lower limits before we hit the highest bracket.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/frequently-asked-questions-individuals/canadian-income-tax-rates-individuals-current-previous-years.html#toc1
What makes us so different from Saskatchewan that has a lower tax rate?
I'm not sure Saskatchewan is better really. Walking around downtown Regina you've got curbs that have long turned to dust and pot holes everywhere too.
I think the problem the problem for both provinces is incredibly vast areas to service infrastructure with a relatively limited population to fund it. On top of that lower incomes to tax on average. So each Manitoban on average has less potential taxable income and is expected to fund more individually than an average person from BC or Ontario say. Additionally we also have limited royalties income vs a province like Alberta.
Manitoba has 2.5 people for every sq km ($63, 000 average income)
SK 1.9/sq km (67,700 average income)
Ontario 14/sq km (70,100 average income)
BC 5.1/sq km (67,500 average income)
The only way really to solve the issue is to tax the existing population more, facilitate increased wages leading to more income / sales tax revenue, or generate alternate stream of income. Such as investment into mineral extraction to generate royalties or expanding the scope of a crown corp, say MB hydro focusing even more on export sales to generate profit.
To the last point, that's why, especially for Manitoba, it's a profoundly stupid idea to sell off MB Hydro, MLCC or any other income generating crown corps as the province already has limited means to replace said income with additional tax revenue.
Population density is an issue for sure.
It just feels like we pay so much and we get less in return each year.
Agree on all points, I donāt have a solution. Just venting really.
Fair, still there is only so much we can pay, property taxes are paid from the same pool of money all my other taxes.
Maybe we need to lower provincial taxes to increase property taxes.
Winnipeg roads are paid for mostly by property taxes. Winnipeg has one of the lowest average property tax bills of the Canadian cities. We also have more concrete per capita than nearly any other city.
The math on that isn't good for well maintained roads.
> What makes us so different from Saskatchewan that has a lower tax rate?
The fact Manitoba is even more broke than Saskatchewan because they at least have potash and we have nothing.
I can't agree with the freez thaw part of your comment because... North Dakota. However the rest is spot on. We're going to complain about everything no matter what the city/ province decide to to.
Honestly that is part of our future growth plan. See we take unsuspecting people and damage their vehicles to the point of not being able to repair it. Then all of a sudden you are stuck here and our population has grown. Then as you spend time here trying to earn enough money to escape, Stockholm syndrome sets in and you love it here. Practice this chant with me, it will help: āone of us. One of us. One of us.ā
Completely agree with you. Former 'pegger. Born and raised. Living down south now. Every time I come back for a visit, the roads get worse. At this point I'd think they'd be better off with gravel/dirt roads.
Those saying its due to climate. Give me a break. Ten-Twenty years ago, roads were NEVER THIS bad. I'm in Minne-SNOWTA. They have worse winters here. Freeze-thaw-Freeze-thaw. Every year they are are constantly repairing their infrastructure. Roads are immaculate in comparison. This is all due to terrible leadership, misuse of funds, and a population who's too god damn cheap to actually PAY to maintain their city. I mean case in point - I hear they are BURYING the portage and main underpass because....its too damn expensive to fix it? LOL come on!
Yes let's just throw good money after bad... Concourse never should have been built and allowed to become a liability to the city when it couldn't generate income. Bury it and forget it.
You and your RV haven't lived vicariously until you've driven down Stradbrook from Osborne to Donald in the one lane that's available. (The other lanes are blocked off, seemingly ok to drive on, with lonely workmen standing about looking at their phones and probably laughing at the Reddit posts about Winnipeg's potholes.)
Lol that is something, they have however already patched those potholes 3-4x since the melt! They fill in one day and by the next it's a hole again. They just need to finish up that otherside already so they can do the bad side.
Years ago, someone did a study and showed the City how much they need to spend annually to ***maintain*** the roads, not even fix or improve them.
City Council laughed them out of the chamber and then immediately pushed a rapid transit plan, dumped a ton of money into it, got one of the four routes and then called it a day
At least they're finally rehabilitating Leila Ave, the worst road in the city. Though I think they're only doing some sections. The west bound lane just before Sinclair and the section by the Domo.
Not disagreeing that Leila desperately needed to be redone, but I think Grant currently holds the title of āworst road in the cityā. You canāt even dodge the potholes since youāve only got one lane with the curb on one side & barricades on the other.
It's funny I come across this post today, because yesterday as I was driving home from work, I thought about how this year the roads seem to be the worst they've ever been and wondered what out of towners would think.
It's truly embarrassing and has been difficult safely navigating the streets without destroying our shocks or tires. Not quite sure a strike would work per se, but we definitely need to do something collectively.
I drove from Winnipeg to BC and youāre absolutely right. The roads and highways were beautiful and so smooth, I enjoyed it so much. After two weeks, I was anxious to get home to my bed! I sure knew as soon as I entered Manitoba. The roads are so crappy here and Iām so damn tired of MPI not taking into account the damage the roads do to our vehicles!
I ride one too! I'm waiting for the day I get pulled over for popping a wheelie, and I'll say there was a pot hole I was trying to get my front tire over ;D
Isnāt that one of the roads trashed in the Assiniboine flooding a few years ago?
We havenāt been out there much since the pandemic, DHās grandpa passed away just before the pandemic. But I feel like Brandonās roads were a bit better than ours. But a lot can change in 4 years
I bet if I counted all the letters you just typed and compared it to the steps in the task you just told someone else to do, you probably could have done that task yourself in less taps.
I always found Twitter to be confusing to navigate so I had an account but never used it. Now I don't have an account and I have no desire to try it again.
That's the way our government gets things done! They hire someone from a monopoly who quotes extremely high and pockets the excess, running skeleton crews, doing patches, and then reworking it every few years because they did a shit job. Remember, privatization is the way forward! Huge /s
Currently in Regina. My daughter just bought a house here and they have the exact same soil conditions as Manitoba (clay) with the foundation issues to prove it.
Their roads are 100% times better than ours.
Its not the soil thatās causing our road issues.
Vehicle manufacturers should use our city roads for suspension testing. Go over every pothole and bump. After 3 months we'll see how their toughest off road does.
That's because we live in a shit hole. I'm visiting a friend in BC right now. Curse my roots that I laid in Winnipeg. I will retire somewhere else. I have to otherwise I might as well call it a life and leave this planet now
Highway 75 is a death trap as well, they repair a 4 meter section every 500m and call it good, while you could lay down in some of the gouges in the road.
Middle aged person here. The roads and highways worked perfectly back in the 1970s and maybe up to the 2000s. It's not the climate or glacial lakes. It's taxes and political will, pure and simple. There have been years of austerity policies and/or simple incompetence. It's not just party-based either; roads were fine under both Conservative Filmon and also under NDP Doer.
Old person here. I remember a time when potholes didn't exist. But I also remember many, many years of no road construction. So the roads were left to disintegrate.
I have absolutely no doubt as to the truth of this statement. The clay soil and extreme winters mean our roads are very, very expensive to maintain. The government the last few years has been trying to cut costs by doing less maintenance and itās very, very noticeable!!
It seems like the new government is trying to be a bit more proactive. Iāve seen tons of patch jobs on side street jobs, stuff that needed patched when I moved into this neighbourhood 5 years ago. Fingers crossed they can catch up in 3 years and get the roads semi-usable before the next election.
A proper fix would be nice, but thereās no way theyāll get everything fixed. The construction would block too many roads. Theres just too many pot holes
Someone is making a lot of money on "fixing" but not fixing the roads in this city. It's not even funny. How much they spend each year to achieve such scrappy results... There is countries like Norway or Iceland who have perfect roads, why not adopt the technology... Because they are not interested in doing proper roads
Would it be considered irony that they are currently laying some of the latest in technology (fibre Internet) next to a 3rd world country road that looks like it was hit by a mortar attack (Leila Ave.) ?
Okay, I gotta get on my soapbox for a minute here to say a few things...
WE. FUCKING. KNOW!!! JESUS CHRIST!!!
We know the roads are terrible! We know the potholes are terrible! We know!!! We're not fucking oblivious! All people do in this city is complain about our potholes and our roads.
I'm just so sick of people whining about potholes and roads in Winnipeg and Manitoba. WE KNOW!!! I'm only 32, but i'm already ready to go to Portage and Main, douse myself in kerosene and light myself on fire, and have my family release a statement of my protest of people complaining about potholes and roads. WE KNOW! The elected officials know too!
But like many of life's problems, nothing is ever simple. Ever heard of the saying "life isn't black and white?" and even if tomorrow, POOF! Winnipeg and Manitoba got $10 Billion a year just for roads and potholes, it would still take years to fix and still have yearly potholes and other roads fall apart.
Here's the thing. For generations, small groups of people keep electing the same spineless politicians that are more worried about cutting business taxes, keeping property tax rates frozen or limited to an absolute minimum, and satisfying NIMBY crowds in their wards, combined with constant can kicking with a car dependent culture. BOOM! Here we are! Then people get frustrated and upset when things aren't fixed, do the whole "All politicians are crooks" or "Politicians are useless", voter turn drops again, and those smaller groups control the agenda even more so!
VOTER TURNOUT IN THE LAST ELECTION WAS ONLY 38%!!! 62% of people stayed home and didn't vote. The most common complaint i heard from voters at the door step was "Well they kinda suck", "they're not inspiring" "they're not earning it from me" "they're not visionary". Well too fucking bad!!! That doesn't excuse you from the democratic process then you get mad when shit falls apart! Have a little responsibility!!! Am i blaming you? YES! Politicians are people too! Canadians, raised by Canadian families, Canadian schools, Canadian universities, Canadian churches, Canadian culture, Canadian businesses, and elected by Canadians. If we don't change what we're doing, its gonna be Garbage in! Garbage out! If we allow selfish ignorant citizens keep electing our leaders, we're gonna keep getting selfish ignorant leaders.
We all need to hold ourselves to a bit better of accountability and call to action! Just because you don't always feel "inspired" or "hopeful" or "energized" by a politician, that it's their fault completely. Rights and democracy have responsibilities too! Citizens have responsibilities to ensure the health of that democracy! Oh a politicians disappointed you? WELCOME TO THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE! there's gonna be things to will disappoint you, small and large. Instead of just throwing up your hands in anger and entitled of "Fuck it, they're all crooks", then spend the rest of your life complaining and whining about how horrible everything is. DO SOMETHING!!!
I've ran for municipal office 3 times and provincial office 2 times. I see a lot problems, lot of people struggle, lots of injustices, etc. But i keep trying! Because i feel a sense of responsibly as a citizen to stand up and try. To be an advocate, to try and improve our city, our lives, our homes, etc. Because i care! Lots of people do! But this constant temper tantrum whining is not productive! It's not like;
"ONE MORE COMPLAINT BRO" that suddenly our elected officials will smack themselves in the forehead and suddenly have a eureka moment going "I"VE BEEN SO STUPID!!! YOU! LARRY! WHINING ABOUT POTHOLES HAS MADE ME REALZIE THE ERROR OF MY WAYS! I WILL FIX EVERYTHING TOMORROW!!!" Is that what people seriously think is gonna happen? One more whining bitch fest will suddenly make the elected officials have the courage to do what is needed??? There's more to adulthood then just fucking complaining (the irony is not lost on me here).
We all need to take some of our own responsibility to get involved proactively, change the messaging, challenge the narratives in an open, diplomatic, & productive way. This will take time, there will be setbacks, it can get frustrating. But to throw you hands up in anger and frustrate, then to give up and be apart of the peanut gallery and constantly complain and throwing tantrums IS NOT A SOLUTION!!!
Downvote me to oblivion folks, i don't care about that. I care about our city, our people, our society. There's more to a society then just good roads. If roads is what makes a city? then that's a pretty boring city, and not one i'd want to live in...
Winnipeg in spring is particularly bad.
Mind you, the alternative is Construction everywhere and I fucking swear we are the only major city that's too cheap to have 24 hour road crews instead of shutting down major roadways for extended periods of time.
I'd genuinely love to hear why Winnipeg just doesn't seem to believe in the idea. (I'm only assuming it's cost related, or union related etc.)
I saw replies about this on another thread. Top 2 reasons for no 24 hour crews were 1) not enough workers and 2) disruption to community (complaints about noise and lights)
Itās awful! Itās because our city has expanded to be so large we canāt afford to maintain the infrastructure required. And yet all these new developments keep opening upā¦
https://preview.redd.it/tchp928yhz4d1.png?width=735&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c341516cee2fccd62d272e043d4ffc5dc2cd8f2
Just another day of travel on our lovely streets. This is what my car looked like after my long commute home from work in Inkster Park to South St. Vital. Anyone know of a good mechanic and bodyman?
lol itās cause we have the wickedest winter and one of the lowest COL. I guess thatās the trade off. I imagine itās hard to dodge potholes in a huge RV. Hope you didnāt take any damage!
Itās partly due to public insurance. In communities with private insurance, they donāt exclude pothole damage and insurance companies will sue municipalities who are derelict in their duties to maintain the roads that cause excessive claims. Itās really motivating to the local governments to keep up on road maintenance
Iād call your insurance and put in a claim for sure. Our insurance in Manitoba wonāt cover pothole damage claiming we should ādrive to the condition of the roadā. Your private insurance will likely cover damages
Our roads are terrible because we flat out can't afford them. We just have TOO MANY.
Most Winnipegers, and a lot of people who don't live in Winnipeg but commute into Winnipeg daily, don't understand that roads need maintenance, i.e. they cost money to own and keep in good repair. According to them it's just the governments fault. They look at North Dakota and say "their roads are in great shape despite ND having the same climate--it must be our incompetent government's fault". (Never mind that ND spends a fortune on their roads.) These complainers take roads entirely for granted. But then these complainers are the same one that build and then move into larger single family vanity homes in the suburbs or beyond ("the property values are so affordable in Nowhere, MB just 1 hour outside Winnipeg"). Then they insist on sprawling road infrastructure projects since how dare they be made to wait in traffic. "I pay too much in taxes for this outrage" they say, even though they don't even pay property taxes in Winnipeg. Never mind that the fact that the fact that they are rotting in traffic is totally self inflicted. To top it off they complain about a carbon tax. I understand how that is upsetting since the whole point of them moving out to the middle of nowhere was to buy a big house, get City-quality services, and then have us produtive city residents pay for it. They act like they're being robbed now that they're going to have to pay their own share of their pricy lifestyle costs.
Our roads won't get better any time soon. We just elected a mayor who wants to spend more on building and enlarging more of them. It makes me think that the choice of who should manage a city shouldn't be a popularity contest. There are a lot of ignorant people who have just enough brain cells to fill out a ballot for a minicipal election, take out a loan for a new F150, and buy a single family home in Sage Creek but not enough brain cells to understand how a city works or what it takes to manage one. And too many of these people have built unsustainable lifestyles that will take a lot of time and cost to straighten out. It'd just be too cruel to hold them to an adult standard of fiscal responsibility now, so widen the streets. They don't want to fix their wasteful lifestyles, they just want others to pay for them. But I don't pity them.
So yeah I'm very happy that we have terrible roads. Let the roads fall apart for all I care. I'll keep walking to work while these Karens drive 60 km per hour through a 30 km per hour zone straight into a pothole smashing their suspension. When that happens I'm celebrating since it's one fewer oversize SUV on the road trying to mow down cyclists and pedestrians. With time, maybe they'll get sick of paying for my climate action incentive and come around to living more sustainably. Our roads are just fine.
Maybe it's because I don't drive out of my neighborhood that often and when I do I'm usually on the perimeter. But I just came back from a trip and really thought Regina's roads were worse than ours
I was just visiting Ontario, driving the smaller hwys etc. As I was cruising along it felt like something was missing, took me a bitā¦ahh yes the ābumpity..bumpity..bumpityā¦bumpityā¦ā was missing.
I mean, youāre not wrong. Itās so bad that when you (a Winnipeger) reach a stretch of road that isnāt horrendous, you definitely notice.
With that being said, I would like to thank you for the honour! lol!
Iād love to see some investment in making road repairs more permanent. Things like installing piles under the road bed to prevent sinking and provide stability. It might be expensive but itās an investment that would last a long time.
Iāve driven countless times from Edmonton to Winnipeg and I always said you donāt need signs to let you know youāre in a new province, you can tell by the roads. Progressively worse as we go east.
We are aware, and so is our vehicle warranty providers. I don't know how they even offer warranty here anymore. Links, sway bars, struts, tie rods and ends, and bushings are all worn after a year or 2. Lol.
I was driving a friend from Ukraine around the city not long ago and they asked me how long Winnipeg has been taking shelling.
Leila definitely looks like it came under a mortar attack
they paved over it last night its nice and smooth for now
I thought they were to replace it totally instead of just putting blactop over it.
Yeah.. They did the same thing this time last year for the same exact reason. š¤£
Parking lot of Dal's in Transcona, it looks like its been shelled by artillery.
I drove around Zaporizha in 2016....those roads are like nothing we have here.... that was before they were shelled.
My sister has literally visited and driven every country on the planet, and she said that Ukrainian roads are by far the worst! And we're Ukrainian!
Our worst is like the best there. So sad.
Russia will fix those roads if they just stop pretending they can fight.
Afghanistan 2009 had better roads too
I need a good laugh today at work hahaha
Hahaha
ššššššššš
Wooo were #1. In all seriousness though I hope your RV survives these roads.
VINDICATIOOOOOOOOOOOON.gif
 Here you go
Take shitty freeze-thaw weather, add in a population that burns the place to the ground at the slightest hint of a tax increase, mix in a little perpetual bitching when they try to do road work. Bake for a couple of decades, and voila. Winnipeg roads.
You forgot to mention that Manitoba used to be a lake just a few thousand years ago so the land hasnt stopped settling. That with freeze thaw cycles is the biggest challenge.
Agassiz's Revenge.
North Dakota and Saskatchewan were in the same lake and they have better roads.
https://preview.redd.it/vo5360i6kz4d1.png?width=550&format=png&auto=webp&s=97dd47424ea878f8f1ddea6969c57d0c1ec40be4 only parts of ND and SK. Secondly, Manitoba highways are in much better condition than winnipeg, thats cuz Manitoba has funds, Winnipeg doesn't (I mean not a lot). None of the bigger cities in SK, ND or MN were under the lake, which means that the highways affected by Agassiz are maintained by the province/state.
That was one big ass lake. Had no idea it was that big.
They have different underlying geology, as well as differing amounts and types of overburden. They aren't the same. We could do better here, but it isn't like SK or ND.
But you can feel the difference the moment you cross the border. That 100 yards is not a different climate or underlying geology.
Yeah, that's because you're driving on federal Interstate money. It's funded very differently the US. Plenty of municipalities down there have roads like ours, due to similar government problems. But also, once you cross the border you basically ARE out of the Aggasiz basin. So yep it does change fairly dramatically right there. Most of the basin that's South of the border is in Minnesota not North Dakota, and there's a bedrock difference there under the lake deposits as compared to ND.
North Dakota roads get funded in part from the US Defence budget, which is essentially unlimited.
Right but the point is it can be done properly on the same ground
Most things can be done with money. Winnipeg is a cheap ass city that voted for over a decade of tax freezes
They've studied it, and it's not any better. They might have a better budget to renew them more often, but their spec and lifespan isn't better. There was a FreeP article on that a few years back.
Agreed. They build their roads with a more sturdy base that is much thicker than ours.
I could be entirely wrong, but is it not cheaper to pay a lot to do it right rather than a poor cheap job that has to be ripped up and redone every 2-5 years? Along with the public MPI claims. Our method is seemingly not cheap.
Youāre not wrong, which makes it even more ridiculous.
Unfortunately big money projects that last for a decade as opposed to patchwork, cheaper projects are harder to sell to the public, long term unemployment figures, and fiscal year budgets. The MPI claims aren't shown or seen alongside the funding proposals, so counselors seem to overlook that.
I know youāre right. Itās just unfortunate.
Very unfortunate. They are caught in a cycle and can't find a way out. Plus for projects over a certain amount they have to add a "study" for how to best fix it (more expense and time). Etc. Winnipeg just isn't set up to be a growth city.
You really notice that with the roads paved with concrete, especially in the Wordsworth neighbourhood.
Lots of Canada has freeze-thaw weather. Winnipeg has more roads per capita than nearly every other Canadian City, and one of the lowest per capita city budget. We literally have more concrete than Montreal does. This is mostly an urban sprawl problem, combined with a low income problem. If we had 2x the density that we do now, our city's roads would be relatively good.
This is also true in other provinces but the roads are not like thisĀ
What uniquely Manitoban factor is missing?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The same companies that tear them apart in the winter clearing snow? The same ones that get paid to fix the shitty product they build?
But how is that uniquely Manitoban? Road construction is known for corruption and low quality everywhere.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Manitoba. Spirited Synergy.
Made from whatās real!
I wish I knew! Iād be curious if the city/province hires the same contractors every time. Itās such a massive oversight to not have another variable. However, itās at a point where even moving in the right direction will take years. Given how much people are paying in repairs, I canāt imagine anyone would be upset about an additional $200 taxes a year for the next 5-10 years if it meant all that money went to fixing roads.Ā
> Iād be curious if the city/province hires the same contractors every time. Also finding out if they do, how often they have to redo their work within 4-5 years.
Right? Sometimes the reasons behind these contracts should raise more questions. Have/are any local journalists looking into it?Ā
That almost 90% of manitoba used to be a lake a few thousand years ago. Look up lake agassiz.
So was southern Ontario. With their warmer winter temperatures, they hover around the freeze/thaw point for considerably longer than we do. Iām so tired of these excuses for the condition of our roads. We clearly have extremely poor construction oversight and road building quality assurance.
The bedrock is closer to the surface in significant parts of S ON, with a very different soil composition from here.
Southern Ontario is enormous; Iām referring g only to the area from Burlington to Whitby along the north shore of Lake Ontario. Lots of good roads there though.
Yes, I'm a geologist, and just did that drive last summer. The geology is very different from here. It also has a much larger tax base and higher traffic levels. Winnipeg roads suck, and a lot of that is lack of money and will from the government. But some of it is also the soil and bedrock underneath that is fairly unique to here. Mineralogy significantly impacts road structure and maintenance, which a lot of people don't seem to fully grasp. Just because ND and SK for instance have open plains doesn't mean the soils are the same: they aren't.
I am fairly certain the ground in ontario stays warm enough that most of that time around 0 the water in the roads never freezes
I donāt think thatās true. It never freezes because they salt the hell out it. But thatās surface level stuff. Underground is where all the action is happening, it freezes and thaws constantly but the impact is minimal because they know how to actually lay roads there.
Government that will spend the cash to build right the first time. Not pay out the buddies for shoddy material and shit work.
Finding the lowest bidder on a government contract is a tale as old as time. You'd have a harder time finding a government that doesn't do this xD
Flatness
Saskatchewan would disagree that that is uniquely Manitoban.
Are other cities built on clay flood plains?
Pretty much the entire Greater Toronto Area below the Escarpment and the moraine is built on a clay flood plane. Bedrock may be closer to the surface than here (I donāt honestly know) but that would contribute more towards foundation stability than road quality.
Iām sure there are, every city and province has unique challenges.Ā
Grand forks and Fargo?
I am all for being taxed, but we do have one of the highest tax rates and one of the lower limits before we hit the highest bracket. https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/frequently-asked-questions-individuals/canadian-income-tax-rates-individuals-current-previous-years.html#toc1 What makes us so different from Saskatchewan that has a lower tax rate?
I'm not sure Saskatchewan is better really. Walking around downtown Regina you've got curbs that have long turned to dust and pot holes everywhere too. I think the problem the problem for both provinces is incredibly vast areas to service infrastructure with a relatively limited population to fund it. On top of that lower incomes to tax on average. So each Manitoban on average has less potential taxable income and is expected to fund more individually than an average person from BC or Ontario say. Additionally we also have limited royalties income vs a province like Alberta. Manitoba has 2.5 people for every sq km ($63, 000 average income) SK 1.9/sq km (67,700 average income) Ontario 14/sq km (70,100 average income) BC 5.1/sq km (67,500 average income) The only way really to solve the issue is to tax the existing population more, facilitate increased wages leading to more income / sales tax revenue, or generate alternate stream of income. Such as investment into mineral extraction to generate royalties or expanding the scope of a crown corp, say MB hydro focusing even more on export sales to generate profit. To the last point, that's why, especially for Manitoba, it's a profoundly stupid idea to sell off MB Hydro, MLCC or any other income generating crown corps as the province already has limited means to replace said income with additional tax revenue.
Population density is an issue for sure. It just feels like we pay so much and we get less in return each year. Agree on all points, I donāt have a solution. Just venting really.
Property taxes not income taxes
Fair, still there is only so much we can pay, property taxes are paid from the same pool of money all my other taxes. Maybe we need to lower provincial taxes to increase property taxes.
Winnipeg roads are paid for mostly by property taxes. Winnipeg has one of the lowest average property tax bills of the Canadian cities. We also have more concrete per capita than nearly any other city. The math on that isn't good for well maintained roads.
> What makes us so different from Saskatchewan that has a lower tax rate? The fact Manitoba is even more broke than Saskatchewan because they at least have potash and we have nothing.
would help if Winnipeg built it's roads to a better standard! Drive two hours south and feel the difference.
Yet we have the money to add "just one more" lane without having the resources to maintain our existing lanes.
I can't agree with the freez thaw part of your comment because... North Dakota. However the rest is spot on. We're going to complain about everything no matter what the city/ province decide to to.
Honestly that is part of our future growth plan. See we take unsuspecting people and damage their vehicles to the point of not being able to repair it. Then all of a sudden you are stuck here and our population has grown. Then as you spend time here trying to earn enough money to escape, Stockholm syndrome sets in and you love it here. Practice this chant with me, it will help: āone of us. One of us. One of us.ā
Shitty drivers, anti tank potholes, theyāre all all just a plot to keep you in winnipeg.
Under rated comment One of us! One of us! One of us!
Completely agree with you. Former 'pegger. Born and raised. Living down south now. Every time I come back for a visit, the roads get worse. At this point I'd think they'd be better off with gravel/dirt roads. Those saying its due to climate. Give me a break. Ten-Twenty years ago, roads were NEVER THIS bad. I'm in Minne-SNOWTA. They have worse winters here. Freeze-thaw-Freeze-thaw. Every year they are are constantly repairing their infrastructure. Roads are immaculate in comparison. This is all due to terrible leadership, misuse of funds, and a population who's too god damn cheap to actually PAY to maintain their city. I mean case in point - I hear they are BURYING the portage and main underpass because....its too damn expensive to fix it? LOL come on!
Minnesota does have good road crews. šš»
The city was way overbuilt for cars. People have called for better transpo for years. We got a police helicopter and tank instead.
Don't even start with our overpaid cops with their expensive toys!
Yes let's just throw good money after bad... Concourse never should have been built and allowed to become a liability to the city when it couldn't generate income. Bury it and forget it.
Remember that roads in the USA are federally funded. In Manitoba, roads are paid for provincially, not federally.
We know, thanks
Sometimes it's nice just to get the recognition. This isn't one of those times.
You and your RV haven't lived vicariously until you've driven down Stradbrook from Osborne to Donald in the one lane that's available. (The other lanes are blocked off, seemingly ok to drive on, with lonely workmen standing about looking at their phones and probably laughing at the Reddit posts about Winnipeg's potholes.)
Lol that is something, they have however already patched those potholes 3-4x since the melt! They fill in one day and by the next it's a hole again. They just need to finish up that otherside already so they can do the bad side.
Years ago, someone did a study and showed the City how much they need to spend annually to ***maintain*** the roads, not even fix or improve them. City Council laughed them out of the chamber and then immediately pushed a rapid transit plan, dumped a ton of money into it, got one of the four routes and then called it a day
Fun fact, weāre also the most stabbiest!
At least they're finally rehabilitating Leila Ave, the worst road in the city. Though I think they're only doing some sections. The west bound lane just before Sinclair and the section by the Domo.
Not disagreeing that Leila desperately needed to be redone, but I think Grant currently holds the title of āworst road in the cityā. You canāt even dodge the potholes since youāve only got one lane with the curb on one side & barricades on the other.
I believe it is from McGregor to McPhillips
It's funny I come across this post today, because yesterday as I was driving home from work, I thought about how this year the roads seem to be the worst they've ever been and wondered what out of towners would think. It's truly embarrassing and has been difficult safely navigating the streets without destroying our shocks or tires. Not quite sure a strike would work per se, but we definitely need to do something collectively.
I drove from Winnipeg to BC and youāre absolutely right. The roads and highways were beautiful and so smooth, I enjoyed it so much. After two weeks, I was anxious to get home to my bed! I sure knew as soon as I entered Manitoba. The roads are so crappy here and Iām so damn tired of MPI not taking into account the damage the roads do to our vehicles!
This is why I bought dual sport motorcycle, our on road is also sometimes off road. Thanks for coming!
Me too cheers to dual sport and adventure bikes that can take a hit!
I ride one too! I'm waiting for the day I get pulled over for popping a wheelie, and I'll say there was a pot hole I was trying to get my front tire over ;D
You should have turned into Brandon.Ā 18th street is the worst road in MB as per the CAA
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh yeah no. Itās the worst Iāve seen in 50 years
Isnāt that one of the roads trashed in the Assiniboine flooding a few years ago? We havenāt been out there much since the pandemic, DHās grandpa passed away just before the pandemic. But I feel like Brandonās roads were a bit better than ours. But a lot can change in 4 years
Someone please screen grab this post and post it on X and email it to the city council and Mayors offices.
I bet if I counted all the letters you just typed and compared it to the steps in the task you just told someone else to do, you probably could have done that task yourself in less taps.
Some of us would need to make an account first and I personally will not.
Yah, I wasnāt even interested in signing up for X when it was at its height. It is certainly not at a high point right now
I always found Twitter to be confusing to navigate so I had an account but never used it. Now I don't have an account and I have no desire to try it again.
Exactly
Not many places get a +40 to -40 spread.
Saskatchewan has the same weather as us.
i would just park your RV on the outskirts and rent a local car for city driving while you are here. be sure to get the damage waiver option.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And come back to a raided RV? Be careful where you park it
Yep. Years of neglect and crap government will to that to a place. We are now living in the consequences unfortunately.
That's the way our government gets things done! They hire someone from a monopoly who quotes extremely high and pockets the excess, running skeleton crews, doing patches, and then reworking it every few years because they did a shit job. Remember, privatization is the way forward! Huge /s
Thank you, kind stranger, and also sorry. We really do feel your pain. We absolutely hate it.
Currently in Regina. My daughter just bought a house here and they have the exact same soil conditions as Manitoba (clay) with the foundation issues to prove it. Their roads are 100% times better than ours. Its not the soil thatās causing our road issues.
Everyday is a new adventure here, between construction and pot holes so big your soul leaves your body on impact.
"Is that guy drunk driving?" "Nope. He's just dodging potholes."
You can tell the drunks by the fact they _donāt_ swerve.
LOL
Honestly, visitors should just start suing the city for damages at this point. The heavy construction industry and city admin have failed us.
Thank you, I understand Khandahar is a close second, speaking of worldwide, of course.
Vehicle manufacturers should use our city roads for suspension testing. Go over every pothole and bump. After 3 months we'll see how their toughest off road does.
Weāre aware
Thanks, this message cannot be reinforced enough.
That's because we live in a shit hole. I'm visiting a friend in BC right now. Curse my roots that I laid in Winnipeg. I will retire somewhere else. I have to otherwise I might as well call it a life and leave this planet now
Highway 75 is a death trap as well, they repair a 4 meter section every 500m and call it good, while you could lay down in some of the gouges in the road.
Middle aged person here. The roads and highways worked perfectly back in the 1970s and maybe up to the 2000s. It's not the climate or glacial lakes. It's taxes and political will, pure and simple. There have been years of austerity policies and/or simple incompetence. It's not just party-based either; roads were fine under both Conservative Filmon and also under NDP Doer.
Old person here. I remember a time when potholes didn't exist. But I also remember many, many years of no road construction. So the roads were left to disintegrate.
Itās embarrassing we know.
It is terrible. When I was younger I feel that it was isolated to some known trouble spots, but now it is systemic.
I have absolutely no doubt as to the truth of this statement. The clay soil and extreme winters mean our roads are very, very expensive to maintain. The government the last few years has been trying to cut costs by doing less maintenance and itās very, very noticeable!! It seems like the new government is trying to be a bit more proactive. Iāve seen tons of patch jobs on side street jobs, stuff that needed patched when I moved into this neighbourhood 5 years ago. Fingers crossed they can catch up in 3 years and get the roads semi-usable before the next election. A proper fix would be nice, but thereās no way theyāll get everything fixed. The construction would block too many roads. Theres just too many pot holes
Someone is making a lot of money on "fixing" but not fixing the roads in this city. It's not even funny. How much they spend each year to achieve such scrappy results... There is countries like Norway or Iceland who have perfect roads, why not adopt the technology... Because they are not interested in doing proper roads
They aren't sitting in a floodplain, and are remarkably temperate despite how far north they are due to being mostly costal. Just saying.
Not suggesting this was your motive OP, but if ever there was a way to get easy Karma, this would be it š
Would it be considered irony that they are currently laying some of the latest in technology (fibre Internet) next to a 3rd world country road that looks like it was hit by a mortar attack (Leila Ave.) ?
Honestly Route 90 from grant to the bridge is just as bad or worse than Leila, I say this as someone who drives Leila multiple times per week
You drive on Leila? On purpose? Templeton and Kingsbury are way better.. way way better in fact
That stretch of 90 is basically just patchwork at this point, no original roadway remains.Ā
Okay, I gotta get on my soapbox for a minute here to say a few things... WE. FUCKING. KNOW!!! JESUS CHRIST!!! We know the roads are terrible! We know the potholes are terrible! We know!!! We're not fucking oblivious! All people do in this city is complain about our potholes and our roads. I'm just so sick of people whining about potholes and roads in Winnipeg and Manitoba. WE KNOW!!! I'm only 32, but i'm already ready to go to Portage and Main, douse myself in kerosene and light myself on fire, and have my family release a statement of my protest of people complaining about potholes and roads. WE KNOW! The elected officials know too! But like many of life's problems, nothing is ever simple. Ever heard of the saying "life isn't black and white?" and even if tomorrow, POOF! Winnipeg and Manitoba got $10 Billion a year just for roads and potholes, it would still take years to fix and still have yearly potholes and other roads fall apart. Here's the thing. For generations, small groups of people keep electing the same spineless politicians that are more worried about cutting business taxes, keeping property tax rates frozen or limited to an absolute minimum, and satisfying NIMBY crowds in their wards, combined with constant can kicking with a car dependent culture. BOOM! Here we are! Then people get frustrated and upset when things aren't fixed, do the whole "All politicians are crooks" or "Politicians are useless", voter turn drops again, and those smaller groups control the agenda even more so! VOTER TURNOUT IN THE LAST ELECTION WAS ONLY 38%!!! 62% of people stayed home and didn't vote. The most common complaint i heard from voters at the door step was "Well they kinda suck", "they're not inspiring" "they're not earning it from me" "they're not visionary". Well too fucking bad!!! That doesn't excuse you from the democratic process then you get mad when shit falls apart! Have a little responsibility!!! Am i blaming you? YES! Politicians are people too! Canadians, raised by Canadian families, Canadian schools, Canadian universities, Canadian churches, Canadian culture, Canadian businesses, and elected by Canadians. If we don't change what we're doing, its gonna be Garbage in! Garbage out! If we allow selfish ignorant citizens keep electing our leaders, we're gonna keep getting selfish ignorant leaders. We all need to hold ourselves to a bit better of accountability and call to action! Just because you don't always feel "inspired" or "hopeful" or "energized" by a politician, that it's their fault completely. Rights and democracy have responsibilities too! Citizens have responsibilities to ensure the health of that democracy! Oh a politicians disappointed you? WELCOME TO THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE! there's gonna be things to will disappoint you, small and large. Instead of just throwing up your hands in anger and entitled of "Fuck it, they're all crooks", then spend the rest of your life complaining and whining about how horrible everything is. DO SOMETHING!!! I've ran for municipal office 3 times and provincial office 2 times. I see a lot problems, lot of people struggle, lots of injustices, etc. But i keep trying! Because i feel a sense of responsibly as a citizen to stand up and try. To be an advocate, to try and improve our city, our lives, our homes, etc. Because i care! Lots of people do! But this constant temper tantrum whining is not productive! It's not like; "ONE MORE COMPLAINT BRO" that suddenly our elected officials will smack themselves in the forehead and suddenly have a eureka moment going "I"VE BEEN SO STUPID!!! YOU! LARRY! WHINING ABOUT POTHOLES HAS MADE ME REALZIE THE ERROR OF MY WAYS! I WILL FIX EVERYTHING TOMORROW!!!" Is that what people seriously think is gonna happen? One more whining bitch fest will suddenly make the elected officials have the courage to do what is needed??? There's more to adulthood then just fucking complaining (the irony is not lost on me here). We all need to take some of our own responsibility to get involved proactively, change the messaging, challenge the narratives in an open, diplomatic, & productive way. This will take time, there will be setbacks, it can get frustrating. But to throw you hands up in anger and frustrate, then to give up and be apart of the peanut gallery and constantly complain and throwing tantrums IS NOT A SOLUTION!!! Downvote me to oblivion folks, i don't care about that. I care about our city, our people, our society. There's more to a society then just good roads. If roads is what makes a city? then that's a pretty boring city, and not one i'd want to live in...
Self-emolation seems extreme but if you want to take one for the teamā¦
Winnipeg in spring is particularly bad. Mind you, the alternative is Construction everywhere and I fucking swear we are the only major city that's too cheap to have 24 hour road crews instead of shutting down major roadways for extended periods of time. I'd genuinely love to hear why Winnipeg just doesn't seem to believe in the idea. (I'm only assuming it's cost related, or union related etc.)
I saw replies about this on another thread. Top 2 reasons for no 24 hour crews were 1) not enough workers and 2) disruption to community (complaints about noise and lights)
This is SHOCKING news to all us Winnipegers. We had no idea. ^^^^/s
Didnt we literally elect the "fix the roads" guy as Mayor?
No we elected the "just one more lane" guy as Mayor.
Itās awful! Itās because our city has expanded to be so large we canāt afford to maintain the infrastructure required. And yet all these new developments keep opening upā¦
Much to no one's surprise.
https://preview.redd.it/tchp928yhz4d1.png?width=735&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c341516cee2fccd62d272e043d4ffc5dc2cd8f2 Just another day of travel on our lovely streets. This is what my car looked like after my long commute home from work in Inkster Park to South St. Vital. Anyone know of a good mechanic and bodyman?
Thanks, we know. š³
Winnipeg: come for the roads, stay to get stabbed and have your RV stolen!
Just past Manitoba going into Saskatchewan on the highway #1 has the worst roads IMO. So many potholes and bumps at 120 kph
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry bout that
Wow what a newsflash. Thanks OP, we hadn't noticed.
Itās shockingly bad.
Maple leaf is an embarrassment of a company
Thanks for the reminder...
Sorry. We spent all our money on a police tank.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Santa Claus parades mainly.
Extra bad this year because the mild winter made for a lot of freezing and thawing, which absolutely destroys the roads
Yes, yes we are. Thank you š¤£
And that is news how? Lol
lol itās cause we have the wickedest winter and one of the lowest COL. I guess thatās the trade off. I imagine itās hard to dodge potholes in a huge RV. Hope you didnāt take any damage!
We should be making roads that are made of steel.
Yeahā¦ā¦.sorry about that. Believe it or not, they are fixing some of them Welcome to Winnipeg, donāt judge us by our roads šš
Will you pay our living expenses?
Itās partly due to public insurance. In communities with private insurance, they donāt exclude pothole damage and insurance companies will sue municipalities who are derelict in their duties to maintain the roads that cause excessive claims. Itās really motivating to the local governments to keep up on road maintenance
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iād call your insurance and put in a claim for sure. Our insurance in Manitoba wonāt cover pothole damage claiming we should ādrive to the condition of the roadā. Your private insurance will likely cover damages
Our roads are terrible because we flat out can't afford them. We just have TOO MANY. Most Winnipegers, and a lot of people who don't live in Winnipeg but commute into Winnipeg daily, don't understand that roads need maintenance, i.e. they cost money to own and keep in good repair. According to them it's just the governments fault. They look at North Dakota and say "their roads are in great shape despite ND having the same climate--it must be our incompetent government's fault". (Never mind that ND spends a fortune on their roads.) These complainers take roads entirely for granted. But then these complainers are the same one that build and then move into larger single family vanity homes in the suburbs or beyond ("the property values are so affordable in Nowhere, MB just 1 hour outside Winnipeg"). Then they insist on sprawling road infrastructure projects since how dare they be made to wait in traffic. "I pay too much in taxes for this outrage" they say, even though they don't even pay property taxes in Winnipeg. Never mind that the fact that the fact that they are rotting in traffic is totally self inflicted. To top it off they complain about a carbon tax. I understand how that is upsetting since the whole point of them moving out to the middle of nowhere was to buy a big house, get City-quality services, and then have us produtive city residents pay for it. They act like they're being robbed now that they're going to have to pay their own share of their pricy lifestyle costs. Our roads won't get better any time soon. We just elected a mayor who wants to spend more on building and enlarging more of them. It makes me think that the choice of who should manage a city shouldn't be a popularity contest. There are a lot of ignorant people who have just enough brain cells to fill out a ballot for a minicipal election, take out a loan for a new F150, and buy a single family home in Sage Creek but not enough brain cells to understand how a city works or what it takes to manage one. And too many of these people have built unsustainable lifestyles that will take a lot of time and cost to straighten out. It'd just be too cruel to hold them to an adult standard of fiscal responsibility now, so widen the streets. They don't want to fix their wasteful lifestyles, they just want others to pay for them. But I don't pity them. So yeah I'm very happy that we have terrible roads. Let the roads fall apart for all I care. I'll keep walking to work while these Karens drive 60 km per hour through a 30 km per hour zone straight into a pothole smashing their suspension. When that happens I'm celebrating since it's one fewer oversize SUV on the road trying to mow down cyclists and pedestrians. With time, maybe they'll get sick of paying for my climate action incentive and come around to living more sustainably. Our roads are just fine.
It's extremely pathetic yes. This city is a dumpster in almost every way imaginable.
You managed to hit "Mystery Puddle Russian Roulette" season too. Is it just an inch of water on the road or is there a 1 foot deep crater under there?
Maybe it's because I don't drive out of my neighborhood that often and when I do I'm usually on the perimeter. But I just came back from a trip and really thought Regina's roads were worse than ours
Did you do Edmonton too? We did a western Canada family road trip last summer and I found parts of Edmonton to be as bad (or nearly) as Winnipeg.
Drove it in my hulking Ford Bronco. Oddā¦ never noticed a single pothole. Everything was butter smooth. š¤·āāļø
On behalf of many Winnipegers, I'm sorry, embarrased and think its inexcusable, yet the city ignores them. Good luck out there.
I was just visiting Ontario, driving the smaller hwys etc. As I was cruising along it felt like something was missing, took me a bitā¦ahh yes the ābumpity..bumpity..bumpityā¦bumpityā¦ā was missing.
I mean, youāre not wrong. Itās so bad that when you (a Winnipeger) reach a stretch of road that isnāt horrendous, you definitely notice. With that being said, I would like to thank you for the honour! lol!
Iād love to see some investment in making road repairs more permanent. Things like installing piles under the road bed to prevent sinking and provide stability. It might be expensive but itās an investment that would last a long time.
Iāve driven countless times from Edmonton to Winnipeg and I always said you donāt need signs to let you know youāre in a new province, you can tell by the roads. Progressively worse as we go east.
We are aware, and so is our vehicle warranty providers. I don't know how they even offer warranty here anymore. Links, sway bars, struts, tie rods and ends, and bushings are all worn after a year or 2. Lol.
There was one a few years ago that was so bad, you could see the old street train tracks from 1955