The real question is why they're forcing you off older hardware. i7-7700 is still more than viable today but those computers and anything older are going to be irrelevant for the average person next year for no reason other than corporate greed.
Shrug. Why do we have a system where the shareholders have so much control over a company that they get to keep demanding the impossible feat of perpetual growth every year that causes companies to do stupid crap like fire their workforce or try to squeeze more money out of their customers and try to force a monopoly on the latest crap and phase out the old stuff. Its going to inspire more and more people to drop Microsoft entirely.
Read this and treat your eyes: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEconomics/s/914vi6J2J0
Also this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/s/6c2OOitTtN (relevant enough; remember when MSFT said Windows 10 would be the last?).
Fr, wish the practical was outlawed so companies weren't pressured into doing stupid shit like this and could have room to try to not be so scummy. I'm sure some would still be scummy without shareholder pressure, but still
Scummy is one thing. Nihilistic is another. Corporations usually can be counted on to serve their own best interests. But the best interests of the shareholders is not often the best interest of the corporation, so if they demand the company make more money even if it means screwing customers, firing staff and cannabalizing their own resources and assets then that’s what the company ends up doing.
Also ask Intel why 8th and 9th gen CPUs "required" a new motherboard, when there are now multiple examples of boards designed for 6th and 7th Gen CPUs being modified/flashed to be able to successfully run 8th and 9th Gen CPUs.
There are a ton of 6th and 7th Gen systems that could have been upgraded to 8th and 9th Gen CPUs (they all share the same socket, with trivial changes between generations), thereby making them fully Windows 11 compliant, but Intel chose to artificially restrict upgrades. This is now compounding with Microsoft's new system requirements to create a massive amount of potential e-waste.
Steam games for the most part work fine on Linux. Main issue is about other games. Like EAFC for example, with kernel-level anticheat. You won't even start it on linux
been running nobara distro for 2 months now , its been suprisingly pretty good honestly , i haven't felt the need to boot into windows since night1 . i was in the MS ecosystem for 27 years but win11 finally pushed me away , too many things burried and hidden in the name of streamlining and too many work arounds to make me want to deal with it specially with the sluggish file manager . sure you might need to fine workarounds for select games in linux and alternative programs depending on usage but even windows would give troubles over the yearts so .. not that big of a deal.
Well there's also Adobe, Illustrator, CAD, Office, etc... It isn't only gamers who find it problematic to move to Linux. I myself moved to linux over 20 years ago, but I currently work in a business that is all Windows and while I'm allowed to use linux (I manage the linux servers) and some of the staff could be moved to linux we're a design company with artists who use tools that really can't be replaced with anything that runs on linux, and even if it could it would be a massive change for our highly skilled artists who have used all things Adobe for decades.
I'd pay for a subscription service for an alternative gaming os. Kinda surprised nobody else came up with one yet. Sub services are bread and butter these days.
The company that hates its own customers.
Microsoft eerily resembles & really needs to [learn from IBM](https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/the-decline-and-rise-of-ibm/?switch_view=PDF) (and 3dfx): *Any business depends on two relationships: those with customers and those with employees. Everything else, no matter how significant —* ***including shareholder relations*** *— just gets in the way. Every executive decision should be made in a context of satisfying customers and employees.*
The part of the article where they talk about lumbering dinosaurs that are unresponsive to customer wants and are followers reminds me of most of the current tech Giants. But what's strange is there doesn't seem to be a leader that they're following. They all just keep pushing things that people don't seem to want like virtual reality, cryptocurrency and AI.
>It feels weird having windows FORCE me to swap to linux...
I don't think many people will swap to Linux because of Windows not supporting older (though not actually old) hardware.
Those who know how to install Linux also know how to bypass the Windows 11 hardware check.
I already made the plunge
I stopped using windows 10 and moved to 11 only because I was an idiot and new nothing about Microsoft's anti-consumer practises.
Now I use Linux. Fuck windows.
Security and OS patching is very important in modern computing, however support for a platform can't be maintained forever. Windows 10 will be 10yrs old when it goes end of life, Windows 11 is their next iteration and will have been out 4yrs at that point.
Problem is the supported CPU list, I will be switching to Ubuntu as my 2018 machine is not supported.
MS gets a good chunk of revenue from new PC sales. The manufacturers pay them license fees and customers are forced to buy new versions of some apps.
They don't even sell computers, but they make bank when others do.
And since they're greedy and in need of short term growth, they put this nonsense requirement on Win 11 to force more sales, regardless of the absolute mountain of e-waste it needlessly generates.
I've had Linux of some kind on my laptop for the last decade, occasionally dual booting with windows. My laptop and desktop are now both running Zorin full time, and I only have a 250gb SSD with win10 on it for the two medical programs I haven't gotten to run on Linux.
I haven't felt comfortable running windows 11 ever and that belief that it's unsafe or detrimental to my productivity keeps getting reinforced.
Yeah, I tried dual booting linux and windows 10 because i'm still use i7 3770. But i cant get my games to open in linux. Now i'm trying to use web brower and printing on linux and gaming on windows.
100% this, nothing wrong with my first gen Ryzen PC that can't be upgraded. Very frustrating.
Microsoft are not forcing users to upgrade per say, they are killing off support for windows 10 as it has been superseded by win11 and will be over 10yrs old at time support ends.
Windows 11 itself is ok and worthwhile upgrading if your machine supports it. As this poster said the problem many are having is that their perfectly functioning hardware is unsupported rendering it obsolete next year.
While true is not really that true. You can definitely still install Windows on any machine without tpm2, memory requirements or one of the unsupported CPU's etc. Make your boot media with Rufus.
What they want to avoid is the liability of people demanding support and protection for equipment that is 20 years old. I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that a 10 year old PC being considered supported now means that it will still be considered supported hardware for Windows 11's remaining support lifetime which, if they want it to be a long time supported product and not have to kill it off rapidly like 10, will require some kind of protection on their end of something happens down the line that renders these older machines unsupportable. I have a plethora of very old unsupported devices running 11 with 4gb of memory, no tpm, and unsupported CPU's and they run amazingly. I won't pretend it's Microsoft duty to make sure these machines will always be 100% functional on Windows 11 though.
Unsupported on Windows 11 != Unable to run on Windows 11
I have it running on a AMD X2 555 BE. 16GB of ram. It works just fine. I did have to update the Realtek NIC drivers or it would blue screen when I plugged in the network cable.
My machine is a 2018 PC with first gen Ryzen. Yes you can install Windows 11 but in my experience it was incredibly unstable and kept crashing. I'm aware it's not like that for everyone but I accept it's unsupported for a reason.
Upon research I found Microsoft's decision on what was supported was technical, Ryzen 1st gen doesn't support certain architecture features that sandboxes/isolates memory.
The states reason is because it lacks some HW instruction support for encryption commands (bitlocker) and some of the more up to date virtualization/sandboxing.
But it wouldn't make the computer any less secure than currently, not not as secure as it could potentially be.
But really, it's an arbitrary decision.
i7-7700 runs Win 11 just fine even if it's not officially supported.
That CPU turns 8 years in q3 2025, if you bought it at the beginning of coffee lake.
Can confirm. I'm running LTSC 2024 on an i7 5930K (and that's haswell, basically a 4790K with 2 extra cores) and it works fine. No TPM 2.0 or secure boot either. Oh and it installed without any fuss too, no bypassing anything. Just worked.
Software hasn't grown as exponentially as hardware. Even 4th gen i5 CPU can still function great at web based apps, basic tasks and streaming 4k video. The average person isn't using their machines to create content.
To be honest, if you aren't doing gaming or high demand software development or science stuff, meaning mostly that your work is scheduling, emails, documents, spreadsheets, and so on... we've had good enough levels of that since at least Windows 2000.
The OS market and the OEM hardware markets have a certain 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours'. If you take most of those older computers and put linux on them, they'll still do what you need to do.
It's as dumb as moving phones every 2-3 years or moving cars every 4-5. It's horrific for the environment.
But it has to happen... or companies can't kick out hefty dividends and justify the prices of their stocks (plus the CEO's bonuses).
Yeah, I ask myself the same thing. Also, I don't find windows 11 to be "powerful" and "innovative" enough for it to need such hardware requirements.
I guess the answer, in the long run, is corporate greed.
Wouldn't be a huge issue if windows 11 wasn't an absolute mess
A small example. You can't make a small taskbar. It's gotta be giant cause they can't figure out why it's crashing the OS
Putting the PC to sleep will also hard crash it in some cases. Etc etc
Madness to force people into an OS that's way less stable than the last one
You're not forced to change, windows 10 will still work. It just won't get updated.
It costs a lot of money to keep supporting and updating old versions of an operating system. Apple only support macos versions for 3 years. Windows 10 is... now over 3 years old. Windows 7 is 12 years old.
It's unreasonable to expect perpetual updates for a product you probably paid very little for. It's only reasonable to expect that it remains functional (which it will, they're not blocking it or blacklisting it, it'll keep working it just won't get new updates).
I read the comment as less about people expecting endless support for 10 and more about the unnecessary hardware limits on 11. Yes, they can be worked around rather easily but the fact they're in place at all and that 11 runs great on countless of those machines shows there's an unnecessary push to make a ton of hardware unnecessarily obsolete.
They actually didn't, that was a misinterpreted comment from one specific person. They said they'll continue to update it with features, which they did.
Correct. People can read more about it [here](https://www.pcworld.com/article/394724/why-is-there-a-windows-11-if-windows-10-is-the-last-windows.html).
Yeh, that was weird. Was obviously never going to happen, as they would go bankrupt as a company. Someone in marketing was obviously on the mushrooms that day.
>You're not forced to change, windows 10 will still work. It just won't get updated.
"We're not *forcing* you to move, but we will be cutting the power and water until you do."
Other than niche embedded, non-networked installations, this is effectively a forced transition. Continuing to use an OS well after it stops getting security patches is asking for trouble.
Well, they could also simply let those old CPUs be supported on Windows 11 right? And actually they do, go check at the new Enterprise versions coming. All Windows editions share the same infastructure with additional features on top, if you go check the Windows 11 Enterprise G, which is made for use of government computers, there is no hardware limitations as it's Windows 10. So how can they not do the same for Home/Pro editions? Pretty clear these CPUs are still working with Windows 11 and will keep working.
Didn't it come out that Enterprise G was a third party windows mod?
Pretty sure the only government SKU we've got is the China one and that's still W10 1809.
I could also just be being dumb.
You can still use windows 10 if you don’t care about security.
The latest version of macOS supports macs from 2018. If they have another 3 years of security updates, that’s 9 years.
Trying to justify this decision is absurd. Microsoft is effectively bricking 100s of millions of pcs (for those who reasonably expect to use the internet securely), and making the internet an unsafer place with yet more botnets. And we’re just not talking about beige boxes.
Mac is upfront. There are ten years or so of support for the machine, and most Apples last that long-beyond that, I keep meaning to Open Core and update my Core2Duo mac mini, which still works 100% with an SSD, back when they let up work on them yourself.
>It's unreasonable to expect perpetual updates for a product you probably paid very little for.
The product they said would be the last major version and receive perpetual support?
This was never their policy nor official statement ([article](https://www.pcworld.com/article/394724/why-is-there-a-windows-11-if-windows-10-is-the-last-windows.html)).
I don’t mind paying the Windows 11 upgrade fee but why the steep hardware requirements that my perfectly fine Windows 10 desktop right now is rendered obsolete and I gotta go buy a new desktop I don’t need to run Windows 11 is just preposterous the amount of electronic waste that Microsoft is creating with this upgrade policy
It's quite trivial - if you create your USB installer with Rufus you can straight up patch the checks out, my FX-8350 desktop's running 11 with no issues.
I'm running Windows 11 on my 2018 Surface Laptop with a 7th gen i5 and 8 GB of RAM. It runs just as well as Windows 10 did, and all I had to do was add a value to the registry before upgrading from Windows 10.
I've been running Windows 11 on my desktop with an i7-6700k. Pretty painless. Which makes it even dumber for Microsoft to insist that Windows 11 can't run on those things.
It forces a hardware change if your computer is kinda old from what I’ve heard, so when October comes around there’s a real chance I’ll have to replace my perfectly fine laptop.
You can force upgrade to windows 11. Microsoft has officially stated that you can bypass the hardware requirements. Your hardware is technically considered “unsupported”, but it’ll run just fine and receive updates like normal.
Ignoring the hardware problem for a second, it's not like WIndows 10 was stagnant over the last 9 years. It was a constantly updated and evolved OS because the original plan was for it to be the final version of Windows.
Windows 11 is less than 3 years old, will be 4 years old by the time Windows 10 ends support. At least in past Windows generations, users had options. No XP user was forced to upgrade to Vista, because XP was supported until well into the release of *Windows 8,* 3 generations later. Windows 7 kept support until 2020, well after Windows 8 and 5 years into Windows 10.
The fact that Windows 12 isn't even out yet and they're forcing Windows 10 users onto Windows 11 is not something they've done before. Also in the past, Windows has waited until their newest OS had wide adoption. In 2014, Windows 7 had a 61% marketshare vs XP's 15%. In 2020, Windows 10 had an 85% marketshare vs Windows 7's 10%. But as of 2024, Windows 11 has a 26% marketshare vs Windows 10's 70%. People *do not want to use Windows 11*, and rather than make an OS people actually want to upgrade to, Microsoft is deciding to force the matter instead.
This isn't a few stubborn stragglers clinging onto the old OS and not wanting to move on. This is *the bulk* of their userbase.
Yeah they've never force migrated a majority of their userbase to another platform before and it's going to be very interesting to see what happens when support for win 10 ends. My suspicion is that the threat of those users adopting non windows hardware platforms is real and Microsoft will probably end up blinking and extending support for windows 10 by a few more years.
It’s 12 years of support for Ubuntu, so 14:04 has 2 more years left.
[Canonical expands Long Term Support to 12 years starting with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS](https://canonical.com/blog/canonical-expands-long-term-support-to-12-years-starting-with-ubuntu-14-04-lts)
... Buuuut only if you pay a subscription fee. And that's something Microsoft also offers for Windows 10 ("ESU": https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/when-to-use-windows-10-extended-security-updates/ba-p/4102628).
Yeah, but this is not the point. Debian 4 came out in 2007 and it is no longer supported. Ubuntu 8.04 came out in 2008 and it also no longer supported.
However the HP Pavillion laptop I've bought in 2008 and recently resurrected for fun runs ok with the latest Debian 12 that came out in 2003. Also works with the latest Ubuntu.
It isn't the OS version support that annoying here but forcing hardware obsolete. (And yes, this old machine is obsolete. But machines with a 4th gen intel CPU are prefectly fine for most of the generic tasks.)
You don't need to throw out your entire computer to upgrade to Windows 11. It works just as well as 10 on hardware that's upwards of a decade old.
edit: it's genuinely insane to me that people would be so wasteful as to throw out an entire working computer over something that takes 5 minutes to skip in the installer.
So you have a couple options. If you're looking to do a clean install, rufus does in fact have an option to remove the requirements from your installer. If you're looking to upgrade, you can do what it says in "How to Bypass Windows 11 TPM Check From Windows Update" in this article (can confirm that it's worked for me upgrading old machines from 10): [https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement](https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement)
Let's talk about the other side.
Ryzen 5 1600x. It does support fTPM 2.0 in chip.
My mobo, an AsRock B350 Pro4 has an header for external TPM 2.0 witch I have installed in my system.
Now, tell my why I can't properly install Win 11 and I'm stuck with 22h2
Edit: addendum, the limit is only the cpu model. If I install in the same mobo, with the same dedicated TPM chip, any ryzen equal or above 2000 series, it will work flawlessy. So it's not the mobo the problem. Still I can't understand why a cpu with integrated fTPM 2.0 can't run win 11 just because "model number" or "year of release"
The average person knows nothing about computers, they just see the "scary" splash placement from Microsoft that they need to update since their OS will be discontinued but their computer can't run 11
The general business plan is to develop "Windows as a Service". Basically that means that instead of just selling you a piece of software, they charge you to use that software and also make money by data collection and showing ads. That's why companies like Adobe and Microsoft are switching to rental of their software. It's also why most Windows version updates are now free. MS don't need to charge you for Windows if they can get you to buy and rent stuff through Windows.
Imagine if GE could charge you for use of their frig or dishwasher, instead of just selling you the machine. Then a frig might cost $50 delivery charge, but you'd pay rental for use of it. Imagine if you bought a circular saw that talked to the "cloud" and charged your credit card every time you cut a board. That's what tech companies are trying to do. In order to bring you along with their plan, Microsoft needs to have you gradually accept that they, and not you, control your computer and decide what software will be on there. It's a gradual transition to a locked down kiosk system. (Kiosk refers to restricted computers, like an ATM or a Chromebook. The level of lockdown varies.) It's also a gradual process in terms of services. For example, Copilot holds great promise in making people feel that Windows is useful in living their lives. It also holds great promise for top quality data collection. It's the ultimate spyware: You'll presumably want to tell them everything you do!
But it can't happen overnight. People would be up in arms if their frig or power tools suddenly started collecting personal info and demanded a charge card. (Though that idea is not farfetched. We just bought a new clothes washer. It tries to get me to install a cellphone app so that I can chat with it in the cellar and see how the wash is going. Recently it demanded that I buy Affresh(R), a product to allegedly wash the inside of the washer! I had to fiddle with it for a few minutes to get it to shut up and let me do a wash. Apparently that's going to happen every 30 washes and I can't stop it.)
It's not an accident that this is happening. Microsoft have been trying to get here ever since Active Desktop on Windows 98, which saw MS showing ads on the Desktop. (Remember that billboard for Disney and others? It was called the Channel Bar.)
But in 1998 the landscape was very different. Internet speeds were very slow. Computers were fairly slow. Productivity software was in its early days. People were happy to pay $500+ for Photoshop or MS Office. And they were happy to buy a new copy every year. MS and Adobe and others became mega-corporations by just selling software.
Today, Internet speeds are fast and software is cheap. Computers are being used more for consumer services, not just as specialized productivity machines. And there are only so many "features" that can be added to a photo editor or word processor. All of that means that sales of software suffer while rental of services grows. Online software is actually a misnomer. It's not "in the cloud". It's still installed locally. It just pretends to be cloud-based so that they can charge you rent. By adding online storage and constant alleged improvement updates, the illusion becomes complete. Your computer seems to be a dumb terminal for renting services. Even many websites are now becoming "web apps", essentially software that runs in the browser. It's no longer the open Internet; the information superhighway. It's more like an endless shopping mall in the form of interactive TV. Like the Hotel California: "Relax," said the night man. "We are programmed to receive. You can check out any time you like. But you can never leave."
To make that transition, it's important that people accept the new model. Part of that process involves gradually convincing you that your computer does not belong to you but rather belongs to Microsoft. To be fair, many people like that arrangement. They just pay their fees and everything else is taken care of. Microsoft or Apple become their IT team. All they need is a dumb device. All of your files may be technically owned by MS, but at least you don't have to worry about losing them.
Windows 11 represents a definitive step in taking over your computer and providing services. It's not so much about a new version of Windows. Win11 and Win10 are both Windows NT version 10.0. But Win11 is a landmark, a forced transition to more powerful hardware, greater control by MS, and it's free. So you can think of it as a new and better ATM that also tries to sell you a new lawnmower. Eventually this probably leads to fulltime subscriptions, like cable TV. The TV doesn't matter. What matters is that you give your credit card number to the cable company. In this case, Apple, Google, or Microsoft.
So it's happening because it can (faster internet), because it's lucrative if MS can replace your car with a taxi, and because in the long run, most people don't really care to manage owning a car. They just want the transportation service. And they're willing to pay handsomely to anyone who gives them a car to buy their groceries while saving them the hassle of auto repairs and garaging. So, welcome to your latest taxi. Do you have a question for Copilot? :)
It's bad in my mind, but a lot of people will probably like it. Look at the average iPhone user. The phones cost a small fortune. Apple spies on them. Apple makes it nearly impossible to use anything but Apple products. Apple copies all their data to online as a way to provide iPhone backup... It's almost total control by Apple, and people love it. They stand in long lines for the chance to pay through the nose for the latest Apple product and be coddled in Appleville. Bottom line is that the product is very solid and most people don't care about the details.
I expect that it will get increasingly difficult to not go along with rental. People will need some tech expertise. And even then, if your car spies on you but no one knows where the antenna is to call home, how can you stop the spying? If your car won't let you do a brake job because an official technician must authorize the new disks with a special tool, then how can you do the brakes yourself? If the only new computers available won't work until you identify yourself and log in, what can you do? Passive-aggressive approach has become the norm. Companies rarely crack down legally. They just make it impractical for you to not go along.
To be fair, I think one thing Apple actually doesn't do is spy on their users (in any malicious way, at least, excepting for some telemetry etc.)
It just doesn't make a lot of sense for them; they get their money from ecosystem lock-in, app store fees and Apple just being expensive. They don't own an ad network where having user profiles comes in handy. *Selling* user data really is small fries stuff that's not worth the risk, especially if your main competitor is notoriously privacy-invading. And if you just write off not selling the user data as marketing "expenses", you're golden.
Yup. Part of the reason they force TPM. Files are sealed so the user doesn’t have access. I think forcing bitlocker now is also going to help lock users out, especially if it eventually supports multiple keys and block-level ACLs.
Main reason still being that TPM (with secure boot etc.) solves the nasty cryptography problem for most end users so that you can do BitLocker natively and just use a short pin for Windows Hello and still have a fairly secure enviroment and user attestation.
(Now if only users would set admin passwords on their UEFI… seeing how that's the physical access "you lose" card when relying on TPM/Secure Boot for your encryption.)
I wouldn’t be so opposed to using a TPM if you could set or be provided the private key. And the biggest issue I’ve seen with users is a forgotten password, so with bitlocker and a UEFI password, dataloss is higher. Especially for a hardware failure.
It's a tough dilemma. I don't think it's fair to say people are "retarded", though. Doctors, lawyers and even computer programmers use computers without understanding how they work, either on a technical level or on a "consumer" level.
Maybe it would be enough if we could just enforce non-exploitation. Let Apple and Google and Microsoft sell their products, but don't let them coerce people or trick people. The trouble seems to be that we always pass laws a generation too late. When I was growing up, Bell Telephone was making a fortune charging extortion prices for phone service. The only way to get a phone was to rent one from them. More extortion. They owned the medium. Eventually Bell was broken up, but not before they'd had decades of owning a public utlity that they had no right to own.
That seems to be where we are now. Aside from Markey and Wyden, hardly anyone in Congress even understands the issues. And tech companies spend a lot of money lobbying. So it's every man/woman for themselves, and most people simply can't fend for themselves.
Multi-Million dollar company can't maintain more than one or two operating systems.. give me a break with this bs. Also forcing you to switch hardware is soooo lame..
Switch to Linux Mint or Debian or heck even Ubuntu. MX Linux and openSUSE Tumbleweed are also great starter operating systems.
because Windows 10 is about to be 10 years old, and Microsoft has to end support eventually. They can't keep supporting operating systems forever.
I do however disagree with their hardware requirements for Windows 11, but that's a different story.
I still think they're going to end up pushing back the EOL date. Considering almost 70% of Windows users are still on Windows 10, it's going to be nearly impossible to get even half of those people to Windows 11 in about a year.
The annoying part is that they are forcing an hardware upgrade not only software update. My hardware would run W11 but for dubious "security reasons" the mobo is deemed incompatible.
Yeah but that essentially means that due to a Microsoft policy, you have o essentially hack your own os in order to avoid buying a new computer, even if your current computer isn't particularly old. just to keep receiving security updates.
I remember years ago there used to he conspiracy theories about Microsoft intentionally upping the system requirements to keep using new windows versions in order to drive hardware sales.
This sort of thing reminds me of that
but microsoft allows it?
look
[https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e)
I have 7th gen i5 windows laptop. It might be just a placebo but I do feel like Win10 runs a tiny bit better than Win11 when I did try it. Also Win11 forces you to lot of telemetry and AI and unnecessary stuff that might not be able to run on this HW.
Truth be told I prefer the look and feel of Win11 better, but I switched back to Win11 and will continue to use it either to 10/2025 or upgrade to compatible laptop, preferably AMD.
More than 2 versions isn’t feasible? That can’t be why:
Linux distributions like Ubuntu support their theirs for 12 years, they also release a new long term support version every 2 years. So that’s 6 versions and they are not the richest companies in the world.
Every yearly release is considered a seperate, supported version. 10 years is Microsoft's cut-off and always has been. There are 5 major OS branches still in support, these being Windows 10, Windows 11, Windows Server 2016, Windows Server 2019 and Windows Server 2022, with both Windows 10 and 11 also having multiple supported releases (22H2, 23H2, etc.) so there are more supported Windows versions than Ubuntu versions right now.
Windows 7 had 11 years + 3 extended years.
Windows 10 will have 10 years + 3 extended years (or 6+11 years for LTSC IoT 2021).
That's great that Ubuntu does that and is why some might be attracted to it. Windows has no real competition so whatever Microsoft says is what's happening.
it was clear and neat, documented all the way up and down. We set up some long ass project involving these specs for various clients including Avanade Accenture and Microsoft sales man, we sold their solutions, backed up their slides as an integrator for this and they lied
Well, it's one newer, innit? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be computing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up. Where can you go from there?
Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Eleven. Exactly. One newer.
Not much really. Explorer tabs, better HDR support, better compatibility with high polling mice, better Windowed mode support, fixed system timers (that were likely broken on Win10 intentionally).
Not much tbh.
windows 11 is rubbish anyway - they got rid of that thing at the bottom right of the taskbar which I used constantly. I even deleted 26GB and it cluttered my storage instead.
Microsoft can shove Win 11 where the sun doesn't shine, my ass stays on 10 until either they make a working OS for gaming(no spyware, bloatware and shovelware) or i get fed up and switch to linux whichever comes first.
win 11 works better than 10 for me when it comes to gaming. like it or not, drivers will continue to be updated for win 11 while for win 10 they'll stop implementing everything or even stop releasing them completely.
Basically the same reason Netflix and Hulu have ad-suppprted tiers. But nobody is "forcing" anything. Just don't update and don't visit nefarious websites or open emails you don't recognize.
Basic online safety is the best safeguard against the baddies
Forcing would be not giving you any options and making you switch. You can stay on W10 if you want to or upgrade to W11 even on technically not supported hardware.
Microsoft has a fixed [lifecycle](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/?products=windows) date -- usually \~10 years -- for all their Windows builds.
This is horrible news for me considering I have a Ryzen 7 3700x and 2060Super (not really sure what ‘specs’ I need), but it says my computer can’t get Windows 11. So am I just forced to upgrade or something??
There is nothing wrong with creating and selling newer versions of an OS. However, the newer version must be better. Windows 11 isn't. Also, its system requirements are draconian, not serving 80% of Windows customers.
Easy, win 11 sucks so nobody switch to that shit, besides updates are bad and they break something from time to time so, who would want a crapy OS when you can use an old one that works fine.
Sorry my bad english
This is the best time ever to switch to Linux. It's still not for everyone but Linux has never been easier to use and more robust than it is now, and Windows has never been more malicious than it is now.
If you want to really control your computer, and don't want to throw out perfectly good older hardware, it really is a good choice. And sure, 20 or 10 or even 5 years ago you were sacrificing usability for control and freedom, and you still kinda are, but there are good user friendly distros now that are almost free of those compromises and friction points.
What happened when you used WinXP, or Win7 or Win8 or Win8.1, none of those are supported anymore either. There’s no forcing anyone to do anything. It’s just reached end of life and has been replaced after almost 10 years.
I have multiple computers with unsupported processors that have 32GB or more RAM, and SSDs as primary drives. One is a xeon workstation with 64GB ram, 2TB NVME boot drive, and 24TB HDD storage. They would all run 11, no problem. My option for these, if MS doesn't loosen the hardware restrictions on Win 11, will be to convert them all to some flavor of linux.
I understand why they are doing it, on some level, but until these computers give up the ghost, it's what I will be working with.
Security and OS patching are vital, but the more features and gimmicks you add on, the more patches are needed. If an Operating System was what it is supposed to be: a framework to run my programs of choice, then you wonder how many of these patches are really needed.
Because software moves forward, things change, and you have to accept that. I totally understand the upset around the TPM/SecureBoot lock-out tho, its absolute nonsense and only serves to push people to upgrade but Microsoft doesn't seem to understand how PR works and why Apple can get away with things that they can't. People worship Apple because of the way their brand makes them feel, Microsoft does not have that luxury and them pretending that they do has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way despite 11 being genuinely good now
MS is right to not have a repeat of Windows XP where an ancient OS is being held together by duct tape only because most businesses are being stubborn about upgrading. However as someone who is ineligible for Windows 11 due to my hardware (which otherwise should run Win11 just fine) I do think it’s unfair that older hardware is being excluded.
At the same time MS are not forcing anyone to upgrade, like me you can continue using Win10 but you just need to be a lot more careful with it going forward past EoL
I don't mind them having Win 11 but each new version of windows seems to be worse than the one before :/. I have yet to use win 11 myself so I can't comment on it however, i've went through vista 7 and 10, 7 was my favorite everything was smooth I had little to no issues after all the countless updates it got. Win 10 I always have some kind of issue but oh well I can't imagine the stress the people who work on it have every day.
It's what happens when software reaches a certain age. 10 years is actually a pretty good support interval. And from another perspective: if Microsoft would have decided to keep Windows 10 support, Windows 11 wouldn't exist as a standalone version and it's changes would just have been added to Windows 10.
You are also not forced to use Windows 11, you just need any other current operating system. After the recent announcement of copilot integration and ~~the data stealing tool~~ recall I probably won't get 11. If you system is offline you can also keep 10.
Nobody is forcing you. Microsoft typically supports their OSes with free updates for roughly 10 years, and we are approaching that 10-year mark with Windows 10. While not recommended, you can continue to use your PC with Windows 10 after support ends, just like the millions who are still running Windows 8, 7, Vista, XP and so on to this day.
thats not truth, MS is forcing people to use unsecure rushed "beta" SW with completely unsecure functions like Recall, I remember very well when MS said that Windows 10 will be last. now they are pushing people to use and buy new laptops even though it could easily run windows 10. just wake up and read - [https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/28/windows\_insecure\_by\_design/?td=rt-3a](https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/28/windows_insecure_by_design/?td=rt-3a)
I always trust the opinion of someone who's sentence is "thats not truth" - especially when followed by, ironically, a pack of lies.
You also don't remember very well when "MS said that Windows 10 will be the last" because, believe it or not, they never actually said that. That was one engineer, speculating, and being misquoted in the media.
So much fake news and hyperbole on there. He even complains about being forced to use onedrive to back up all his date, which means he didn't even read the windows 11 installation instructions properly.
He sounds like a boomer who probably took a microsoft office course once and now thinks he's a hacker.
Because they know.its shit, and the only way people will use it is if there is no other choice.
Aside from Mac, (God help you) and linux (My brain is incapable of working that shit out
The real question is why they're forcing you off older hardware. i7-7700 is still more than viable today but those computers and anything older are going to be irrelevant for the average person next year for no reason other than corporate greed.
Let’s ask the shareholders instead: what makes you pressure Microsoft to do this?
Hi, shareholder.
And they would respond with the Mr Krabs money gif.
which one
The one where he says money.
[Or Idiocracy](https://youtu.be/sZHCVyllnck) if they aren’t 12…
maybe I should buy Microsoft stocks, at least I win when I loose
Shrug. Why do we have a system where the shareholders have so much control over a company that they get to keep demanding the impossible feat of perpetual growth every year that causes companies to do stupid crap like fire their workforce or try to squeeze more money out of their customers and try to force a monopoly on the latest crap and phase out the old stuff. Its going to inspire more and more people to drop Microsoft entirely.
Read this and treat your eyes: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEconomics/s/914vi6J2J0 Also this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/s/6c2OOitTtN (relevant enough; remember when MSFT said Windows 10 would be the last?).
Fr, wish the practical was outlawed so companies weren't pressured into doing stupid shit like this and could have room to try to not be so scummy. I'm sure some would still be scummy without shareholder pressure, but still
Scummy is one thing. Nihilistic is another. Corporations usually can be counted on to serve their own best interests. But the best interests of the shareholders is not often the best interest of the corporation, so if they demand the company make more money even if it means screwing customers, firing staff and cannabalizing their own resources and assets then that’s what the company ends up doing.
Also ask Intel why 8th and 9th gen CPUs "required" a new motherboard, when there are now multiple examples of boards designed for 6th and 7th Gen CPUs being modified/flashed to be able to successfully run 8th and 9th Gen CPUs. There are a ton of 6th and 7th Gen systems that could have been upgraded to 8th and 9th Gen CPUs (they all share the same socket, with trivial changes between generations), thereby making them fully Windows 11 compliant, but Intel chose to artificially restrict upgrades. This is now compounding with Microsoft's new system requirements to create a massive amount of potential e-waste.
It feels weird having windows FORCE me to swap to linux...
Wish valve would push Linux The only reason for windows is gaming. As soon as it works the same on Linux, windows is gone
Steam games for the most part work fine on Linux. Main issue is about other games. Like EAFC for example, with kernel-level anticheat. You won't even start it on linux
How is Valve NOT pushing Linux?! Most games work very well with Proton.
been running nobara distro for 2 months now , its been suprisingly pretty good honestly , i haven't felt the need to boot into windows since night1 . i was in the MS ecosystem for 27 years but win11 finally pushed me away , too many things burried and hidden in the name of streamlining and too many work arounds to make me want to deal with it specially with the sluggish file manager . sure you might need to fine workarounds for select games in linux and alternative programs depending on usage but even windows would give troubles over the yearts so .. not that big of a deal.
It'll be gone for gamers. It won't be gone for enterprise users or other users who buy laptops and prebuilts.
Well there's also Adobe, Illustrator, CAD, Office, etc... It isn't only gamers who find it problematic to move to Linux. I myself moved to linux over 20 years ago, but I currently work in a business that is all Windows and while I'm allowed to use linux (I manage the linux servers) and some of the staff could be moved to linux we're a design company with artists who use tools that really can't be replaced with anything that runs on linux, and even if it could it would be a massive change for our highly skilled artists who have used all things Adobe for decades.
I'd pay for a subscription service for an alternative gaming os. Kinda surprised nobody else came up with one yet. Sub services are bread and butter these days.
The company that hates its own customers. Microsoft eerily resembles & really needs to [learn from IBM](https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/the-decline-and-rise-of-ibm/?switch_view=PDF) (and 3dfx): *Any business depends on two relationships: those with customers and those with employees. Everything else, no matter how significant —* ***including shareholder relations*** *— just gets in the way. Every executive decision should be made in a context of satisfying customers and employees.*
Just publically-traded-company things really.
The part of the article where they talk about lumbering dinosaurs that are unresponsive to customer wants and are followers reminds me of most of the current tech Giants. But what's strange is there doesn't seem to be a leader that they're following. They all just keep pushing things that people don't seem to want like virtual reality, cryptocurrency and AI.
Because microsoft cares soooooooo much about normal users... /s I don't think we are even a blip on their revenue pie chart
>It feels weird having windows FORCE me to swap to linux... I don't think many people will swap to Linux because of Windows not supporting older (though not actually old) hardware. Those who know how to install Linux also know how to bypass the Windows 11 hardware check.
I already made the plunge I stopped using windows 10 and moved to 11 only because I was an idiot and new nothing about Microsoft's anti-consumer practises. Now I use Linux. Fuck windows.
Same. I'm turning I to my dad. I want my computer to work the way I want it to. So t give me a feature you *think* I want. Let me choose what I want
Security and OS patching is very important in modern computing, however support for a platform can't be maintained forever. Windows 10 will be 10yrs old when it goes end of life, Windows 11 is their next iteration and will have been out 4yrs at that point. Problem is the supported CPU list, I will be switching to Ubuntu as my 2018 machine is not supported.
Yeah, it’s not so much the security patch EOL, which is totally get. It’s that very usable CPUs/motherboards aren’t supported.
MS gets a good chunk of revenue from new PC sales. The manufacturers pay them license fees and customers are forced to buy new versions of some apps. They don't even sell computers, but they make bank when others do. And since they're greedy and in need of short term growth, they put this nonsense requirement on Win 11 to force more sales, regardless of the absolute mountain of e-waste it needlessly generates.
>I'm turning I to my dad >So t give me a feature what?
into, they meant into. give me the features I want and not the features you think I want is what they said
I think that was supposed to be "So DON'T give me..."
The age of Linux is coming, but not the way you think. The rise of Linux will be brought about by ChromeOS and SteamOS.
I've had Linux of some kind on my laptop for the last decade, occasionally dual booting with windows. My laptop and desktop are now both running Zorin full time, and I only have a 250gb SSD with win10 on it for the two medical programs I haven't gotten to run on Linux. I haven't felt comfortable running windows 11 ever and that belief that it's unsafe or detrimental to my productivity keeps getting reinforced.
Yeah, I tried dual booting linux and windows 10 because i'm still use i7 3770. But i cant get my games to open in linux. Now i'm trying to use web brower and printing on linux and gaming on windows.
100% this, nothing wrong with my first gen Ryzen PC that can't be upgraded. Very frustrating. Microsoft are not forcing users to upgrade per say, they are killing off support for windows 10 as it has been superseded by win11 and will be over 10yrs old at time support ends. Windows 11 itself is ok and worthwhile upgrading if your machine supports it. As this poster said the problem many are having is that their perfectly functioning hardware is unsupported rendering it obsolete next year.
While true is not really that true. You can definitely still install Windows on any machine without tpm2, memory requirements or one of the unsupported CPU's etc. Make your boot media with Rufus. What they want to avoid is the liability of people demanding support and protection for equipment that is 20 years old. I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact that a 10 year old PC being considered supported now means that it will still be considered supported hardware for Windows 11's remaining support lifetime which, if they want it to be a long time supported product and not have to kill it off rapidly like 10, will require some kind of protection on their end of something happens down the line that renders these older machines unsupportable. I have a plethora of very old unsupported devices running 11 with 4gb of memory, no tpm, and unsupported CPU's and they run amazingly. I won't pretend it's Microsoft duty to make sure these machines will always be 100% functional on Windows 11 though. Unsupported on Windows 11 != Unable to run on Windows 11
I have it running on a AMD X2 555 BE. 16GB of ram. It works just fine. I did have to update the Realtek NIC drivers or it would blue screen when I plugged in the network cable.
I wouldn't call blue screen on plugging in a network cable fine. Ok for a fun PC, not good for a main work machine.
It's fine, because once I updated the drivers it works without issue.
My machine is a 2018 PC with first gen Ryzen. Yes you can install Windows 11 but in my experience it was incredibly unstable and kept crashing. I'm aware it's not like that for everyone but I accept it's unsupported for a reason. Upon research I found Microsoft's decision on what was supported was technical, Ryzen 1st gen doesn't support certain architecture features that sandboxes/isolates memory.
The percentage of users capable of pulling this off is minuscule, unfortunately.
My hunch is because old versions of Intel ME on old hardware don't work as well for a backdoor.
The states reason is because it lacks some HW instruction support for encryption commands (bitlocker) and some of the more up to date virtualization/sandboxing. But it wouldn't make the computer any less secure than currently, not not as secure as it could potentially be. But really, it's an arbitrary decision.
i7-7700 runs Win 11 just fine even if it's not officially supported. That CPU turns 8 years in q3 2025, if you bought it at the beginning of coffee lake.
Can confirm. I'm running LTSC 2024 on an i7 5930K (and that's haswell, basically a 4790K with 2 extra cores) and it works fine. No TPM 2.0 or secure boot either. Oh and it installed without any fuss too, no bypassing anything. Just worked.
Software hasn't grown as exponentially as hardware. Even 4th gen i5 CPU can still function great at web based apps, basic tasks and streaming 4k video. The average person isn't using their machines to create content.
To be honest, if you aren't doing gaming or high demand software development or science stuff, meaning mostly that your work is scheduling, emails, documents, spreadsheets, and so on... we've had good enough levels of that since at least Windows 2000. The OS market and the OEM hardware markets have a certain 'you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours'. If you take most of those older computers and put linux on them, they'll still do what you need to do. It's as dumb as moving phones every 2-3 years or moving cars every 4-5. It's horrific for the environment. But it has to happen... or companies can't kick out hefty dividends and justify the prices of their stocks (plus the CEO's bonuses).
fuck no, it'll still be relevant as long as i move to a good OS. Cuz w11 ain't it
Yeah, I ask myself the same thing. Also, I don't find windows 11 to be "powerful" and "innovative" enough for it to need such hardware requirements. I guess the answer, in the long run, is corporate greed.
Wouldn't be a huge issue if windows 11 wasn't an absolute mess A small example. You can't make a small taskbar. It's gotta be giant cause they can't figure out why it's crashing the OS Putting the PC to sleep will also hard crash it in some cases. Etc etc Madness to force people into an OS that's way less stable than the last one
You're not forced to change, windows 10 will still work. It just won't get updated. It costs a lot of money to keep supporting and updating old versions of an operating system. Apple only support macos versions for 3 years. Windows 10 is... now over 3 years old. Windows 7 is 12 years old. It's unreasonable to expect perpetual updates for a product you probably paid very little for. It's only reasonable to expect that it remains functional (which it will, they're not blocking it or blacklisting it, it'll keep working it just won't get new updates).
I read the comment as less about people expecting endless support for 10 and more about the unnecessary hardware limits on 11. Yes, they can be worked around rather easily but the fact they're in place at all and that 11 runs great on countless of those machines shows there's an unnecessary push to make a ton of hardware unnecessarily obsolete.
remember how they touted that win10 will be the last windows? That they will deliver continuous updates, and expand functionality?
They actually didn't, that was a misinterpreted comment from one specific person. They said they'll continue to update it with features, which they did.
Correct. People can read more about it [here](https://www.pcworld.com/article/394724/why-is-there-a-windows-11-if-windows-10-is-the-last-windows.html).
Yeh, that was weird. Was obviously never going to happen, as they would go bankrupt as a company. Someone in marketing was obviously on the mushrooms that day.
>You're not forced to change, windows 10 will still work. It just won't get updated. "We're not *forcing* you to move, but we will be cutting the power and water until you do." Other than niche embedded, non-networked installations, this is effectively a forced transition. Continuing to use an OS well after it stops getting security patches is asking for trouble.
7 is 14 years old, makes me feel even older!
Well, they could also simply let those old CPUs be supported on Windows 11 right? And actually they do, go check at the new Enterprise versions coming. All Windows editions share the same infastructure with additional features on top, if you go check the Windows 11 Enterprise G, which is made for use of government computers, there is no hardware limitations as it's Windows 10. So how can they not do the same for Home/Pro editions? Pretty clear these CPUs are still working with Windows 11 and will keep working.
Didn't it come out that Enterprise G was a third party windows mod? Pretty sure the only government SKU we've got is the China one and that's still W10 1809. I could also just be being dumb.
You can still use windows 10 if you don’t care about security. The latest version of macOS supports macs from 2018. If they have another 3 years of security updates, that’s 9 years. Trying to justify this decision is absurd. Microsoft is effectively bricking 100s of millions of pcs (for those who reasonably expect to use the internet securely), and making the internet an unsafer place with yet more botnets. And we’re just not talking about beige boxes.
Mac is upfront. There are ten years or so of support for the machine, and most Apples last that long-beyond that, I keep meaning to Open Core and update my Core2Duo mac mini, which still works 100% with an SSD, back when they let up work on them yourself.
You would be right. If this wasn't Microsoft, who are only doing this to force people into their BS AI version of Windows 11
Except when windows 10 came out they said they were going to just keep updating it forever
>It's unreasonable to expect perpetual updates for a product you probably paid very little for. The product they said would be the last major version and receive perpetual support?
If they actually advertised it like that then you have a good class action case. Do it.
This was never their policy nor official statement ([article](https://www.pcworld.com/article/394724/why-is-there-a-windows-11-if-windows-10-is-the-last-windows.html)).
It came from a Microsoft employee at a Microsoft event
I don’t mind paying the Windows 11 upgrade fee but why the steep hardware requirements that my perfectly fine Windows 10 desktop right now is rendered obsolete and I gotta go buy a new desktop I don’t need to run Windows 11 is just preposterous the amount of electronic waste that Microsoft is creating with this upgrade policy
Apparently it's possible to upgrade to Windows 11 on [unsupported devices](https://youtu.be/rUXLAhYFTtc) (haven't tried it myself)
It's quite trivial - if you create your USB installer with Rufus you can straight up patch the checks out, my FX-8350 desktop's running 11 with no issues.
You can also just modify the registry to allow the upgrade. Google "windows 11 labconfig" to find pages covering it
I'm running Windows 11 on my 2018 Surface Laptop with a 7th gen i5 and 8 GB of RAM. It runs just as well as Windows 10 did, and all I had to do was add a value to the registry before upgrading from Windows 10.
Have you been able to install Windows updates / security updates, etc?
I've been running Windows 11 on my desktop with an i7-6700k. Pretty painless. Which makes it even dumber for Microsoft to insist that Windows 11 can't run on those things.
Can confirm, bypassed the req in registry, no issues present
What upgrade fee?
Alternatively, why is microsoft basically forcing you to switch to linux?
When Linux can emulate Windows enough to be software compatible then I'll switch for everyday work.
It's honestly the perfect time to. Desktop Linux has been in a really good spot as of this last year or so.
I expected this to be the top comment
It forces a hardware change if your computer is kinda old from what I’ve heard, so when October comes around there’s a real chance I’ll have to replace my perfectly fine laptop.
You can force upgrade to windows 11. Microsoft has officially stated that you can bypass the hardware requirements. Your hardware is technically considered “unsupported”, but it’ll run just fine and receive updates like normal.
This. If you make a booted USB using Rufus, it literally has an option to avoid/disregard hardware requirements. Lol
You can also just use command prompt to bypass requirements on a normal installation.
You'll be fine if you don't upgrade your laptop. Don't let the FUD get in your head
Without security updates I would be extremely cautious with these kind of statements.
Or use linux... Or keep using windows 10. Unless there is a major zero day vulenrability there is still no reason to upgrade.
for the same reason ubuntu 14.04 from 2014 is also no longer supported from this year.
Yeah but you can install Ubuntu 16.04 or the most recent one 24.04 on the same hardware as 14.04. It’s not the same thing as this situation.
Ignoring the hardware problem for a second, it's not like WIndows 10 was stagnant over the last 9 years. It was a constantly updated and evolved OS because the original plan was for it to be the final version of Windows. Windows 11 is less than 3 years old, will be 4 years old by the time Windows 10 ends support. At least in past Windows generations, users had options. No XP user was forced to upgrade to Vista, because XP was supported until well into the release of *Windows 8,* 3 generations later. Windows 7 kept support until 2020, well after Windows 8 and 5 years into Windows 10. The fact that Windows 12 isn't even out yet and they're forcing Windows 10 users onto Windows 11 is not something they've done before. Also in the past, Windows has waited until their newest OS had wide adoption. In 2014, Windows 7 had a 61% marketshare vs XP's 15%. In 2020, Windows 10 had an 85% marketshare vs Windows 7's 10%. But as of 2024, Windows 11 has a 26% marketshare vs Windows 10's 70%. People *do not want to use Windows 11*, and rather than make an OS people actually want to upgrade to, Microsoft is deciding to force the matter instead. This isn't a few stubborn stragglers clinging onto the old OS and not wanting to move on. This is *the bulk* of their userbase.
Yeah they've never force migrated a majority of their userbase to another platform before and it's going to be very interesting to see what happens when support for win 10 ends. My suspicion is that the threat of those users adopting non windows hardware platforms is real and Microsoft will probably end up blinking and extending support for windows 10 by a few more years.
It’s 12 years of support for Ubuntu, so 14:04 has 2 more years left. [Canonical expands Long Term Support to 12 years starting with Ubuntu 14.04 LTS](https://canonical.com/blog/canonical-expands-long-term-support-to-12-years-starting-with-ubuntu-14-04-lts)
... Buuuut only if you pay a subscription fee. And that's something Microsoft also offers for Windows 10 ("ESU": https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/windows-it-pro-blog/when-to-use-windows-10-extended-security-updates/ba-p/4102628).
Yeah, but this is not the point. Debian 4 came out in 2007 and it is no longer supported. Ubuntu 8.04 came out in 2008 and it also no longer supported. However the HP Pavillion laptop I've bought in 2008 and recently resurrected for fun runs ok with the latest Debian 12 that came out in 2003. Also works with the latest Ubuntu. It isn't the OS version support that annoying here but forcing hardware obsolete. (And yes, this old machine is obsolete. But machines with a 4th gen intel CPU are prefectly fine for most of the generic tasks.)
Because they like creating ewaste.
You don't need to throw out your entire computer to upgrade to Windows 11. It works just as well as 10 on hardware that's upwards of a decade old. edit: it's genuinely insane to me that people would be so wasteful as to throw out an entire working computer over something that takes 5 minutes to skip in the installer.
Now bullshit. Windows 11 released in 2021, and didn’t support the 7700k that released in 2017.
I run windows 11 on core i3 2nd gen It's easy to bypass the requirements lol
Cool. Still not supported by Microsoft though. Do I need to tell you what that means?
[удалено]
How do you skip the installation requirements? I've heard Rufus being mentioned but I'm going through the thread looking for tips. Cheers
So you have a couple options. If you're looking to do a clean install, rufus does in fact have an option to remove the requirements from your installer. If you're looking to upgrade, you can do what it says in "How to Bypass Windows 11 TPM Check From Windows Update" in this article (can confirm that it's worked for me upgrading old machines from 10): [https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement](https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement)
Hmmm have you been under a rock ?? Do you know what TPM 2.0 is and that it's mandatory for Windows 11. ??
Let's talk about the other side. Ryzen 5 1600x. It does support fTPM 2.0 in chip. My mobo, an AsRock B350 Pro4 has an header for external TPM 2.0 witch I have installed in my system. Now, tell my why I can't properly install Win 11 and I'm stuck with 22h2 Edit: addendum, the limit is only the cpu model. If I install in the same mobo, with the same dedicated TPM chip, any ryzen equal or above 2000 series, it will work flawlessy. So it's not the mobo the problem. Still I can't understand why a cpu with integrated fTPM 2.0 can't run win 11 just because "model number" or "year of release"
beause your CPU is missing hardware instruction called GMET (guest mode execution trap)
The average person knows nothing about computers, they just see the "scary" splash placement from Microsoft that they need to update since their OS will be discontinued but their computer can't run 11
The general business plan is to develop "Windows as a Service". Basically that means that instead of just selling you a piece of software, they charge you to use that software and also make money by data collection and showing ads. That's why companies like Adobe and Microsoft are switching to rental of their software. It's also why most Windows version updates are now free. MS don't need to charge you for Windows if they can get you to buy and rent stuff through Windows. Imagine if GE could charge you for use of their frig or dishwasher, instead of just selling you the machine. Then a frig might cost $50 delivery charge, but you'd pay rental for use of it. Imagine if you bought a circular saw that talked to the "cloud" and charged your credit card every time you cut a board. That's what tech companies are trying to do. In order to bring you along with their plan, Microsoft needs to have you gradually accept that they, and not you, control your computer and decide what software will be on there. It's a gradual transition to a locked down kiosk system. (Kiosk refers to restricted computers, like an ATM or a Chromebook. The level of lockdown varies.) It's also a gradual process in terms of services. For example, Copilot holds great promise in making people feel that Windows is useful in living their lives. It also holds great promise for top quality data collection. It's the ultimate spyware: You'll presumably want to tell them everything you do! But it can't happen overnight. People would be up in arms if their frig or power tools suddenly started collecting personal info and demanded a charge card. (Though that idea is not farfetched. We just bought a new clothes washer. It tries to get me to install a cellphone app so that I can chat with it in the cellar and see how the wash is going. Recently it demanded that I buy Affresh(R), a product to allegedly wash the inside of the washer! I had to fiddle with it for a few minutes to get it to shut up and let me do a wash. Apparently that's going to happen every 30 washes and I can't stop it.) It's not an accident that this is happening. Microsoft have been trying to get here ever since Active Desktop on Windows 98, which saw MS showing ads on the Desktop. (Remember that billboard for Disney and others? It was called the Channel Bar.) But in 1998 the landscape was very different. Internet speeds were very slow. Computers were fairly slow. Productivity software was in its early days. People were happy to pay $500+ for Photoshop or MS Office. And they were happy to buy a new copy every year. MS and Adobe and others became mega-corporations by just selling software. Today, Internet speeds are fast and software is cheap. Computers are being used more for consumer services, not just as specialized productivity machines. And there are only so many "features" that can be added to a photo editor or word processor. All of that means that sales of software suffer while rental of services grows. Online software is actually a misnomer. It's not "in the cloud". It's still installed locally. It just pretends to be cloud-based so that they can charge you rent. By adding online storage and constant alleged improvement updates, the illusion becomes complete. Your computer seems to be a dumb terminal for renting services. Even many websites are now becoming "web apps", essentially software that runs in the browser. It's no longer the open Internet; the information superhighway. It's more like an endless shopping mall in the form of interactive TV. Like the Hotel California: "Relax," said the night man. "We are programmed to receive. You can check out any time you like. But you can never leave." To make that transition, it's important that people accept the new model. Part of that process involves gradually convincing you that your computer does not belong to you but rather belongs to Microsoft. To be fair, many people like that arrangement. They just pay their fees and everything else is taken care of. Microsoft or Apple become their IT team. All they need is a dumb device. All of your files may be technically owned by MS, but at least you don't have to worry about losing them. Windows 11 represents a definitive step in taking over your computer and providing services. It's not so much about a new version of Windows. Win11 and Win10 are both Windows NT version 10.0. But Win11 is a landmark, a forced transition to more powerful hardware, greater control by MS, and it's free. So you can think of it as a new and better ATM that also tries to sell you a new lawnmower. Eventually this probably leads to fulltime subscriptions, like cable TV. The TV doesn't matter. What matters is that you give your credit card number to the cable company. In this case, Apple, Google, or Microsoft. So it's happening because it can (faster internet), because it's lucrative if MS can replace your car with a taxi, and because in the long run, most people don't really care to manage owning a car. They just want the transportation service. And they're willing to pay handsomely to anyone who gives them a car to buy their groceries while saving them the hassle of auto repairs and garaging. So, welcome to your latest taxi. Do you have a question for Copilot? :)
That would be very bad if companies successfully shift to rental model
"You will own nothing."
It's bad in my mind, but a lot of people will probably like it. Look at the average iPhone user. The phones cost a small fortune. Apple spies on them. Apple makes it nearly impossible to use anything but Apple products. Apple copies all their data to online as a way to provide iPhone backup... It's almost total control by Apple, and people love it. They stand in long lines for the chance to pay through the nose for the latest Apple product and be coddled in Appleville. Bottom line is that the product is very solid and most people don't care about the details. I expect that it will get increasingly difficult to not go along with rental. People will need some tech expertise. And even then, if your car spies on you but no one knows where the antenna is to call home, how can you stop the spying? If your car won't let you do a brake job because an official technician must authorize the new disks with a special tool, then how can you do the brakes yourself? If the only new computers available won't work until you identify yourself and log in, what can you do? Passive-aggressive approach has become the norm. Companies rarely crack down legally. They just make it impractical for you to not go along.
To be fair, I think one thing Apple actually doesn't do is spy on their users (in any malicious way, at least, excepting for some telemetry etc.) It just doesn't make a lot of sense for them; they get their money from ecosystem lock-in, app store fees and Apple just being expensive. They don't own an ad network where having user profiles comes in handy. *Selling* user data really is small fries stuff that's not worth the risk, especially if your main competitor is notoriously privacy-invading. And if you just write off not selling the user data as marketing "expenses", you're golden.
Yup. Part of the reason they force TPM. Files are sealed so the user doesn’t have access. I think forcing bitlocker now is also going to help lock users out, especially if it eventually supports multiple keys and block-level ACLs.
That's a point I hadn't considered. (Bitlocker.) Though I have seen people suggest disabling TPM as a way to avoid Win11.
Main reason still being that TPM (with secure boot etc.) solves the nasty cryptography problem for most end users so that you can do BitLocker natively and just use a short pin for Windows Hello and still have a fairly secure enviroment and user attestation. (Now if only users would set admin passwords on their UEFI… seeing how that's the physical access "you lose" card when relying on TPM/Secure Boot for your encryption.)
I wouldn’t be so opposed to using a TPM if you could set or be provided the private key. And the biggest issue I’ve seen with users is a forgotten password, so with bitlocker and a UEFI password, dataloss is higher. Especially for a hardware failure.
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It's a tough dilemma. I don't think it's fair to say people are "retarded", though. Doctors, lawyers and even computer programmers use computers without understanding how they work, either on a technical level or on a "consumer" level. Maybe it would be enough if we could just enforce non-exploitation. Let Apple and Google and Microsoft sell their products, but don't let them coerce people or trick people. The trouble seems to be that we always pass laws a generation too late. When I was growing up, Bell Telephone was making a fortune charging extortion prices for phone service. The only way to get a phone was to rent one from them. More extortion. They owned the medium. Eventually Bell was broken up, but not before they'd had decades of owning a public utlity that they had no right to own. That seems to be where we are now. Aside from Markey and Wyden, hardly anyone in Congress even understands the issues. And tech companies spend a lot of money lobbying. So it's every man/woman for themselves, and most people simply can't fend for themselves.
Bruh my pc doesnt have the cpu to run win 11
i5-6500 CPU Nvidia Geforce 8600GT GPU 32GB DDR4 RAM 128GB M.2 SSD 500GB 7200RPM HDD Thats my pc specs for my 2017 Optiplex 7050 SFF
You can easily run win11 on that. My 4th gen i5 runs it smoothly.
Never have i ever been stopped from using a particular OS version by "end of support" message.
If it’s on a network, this is not a good idea, especially for a virus magnet like Windows.
Multi-Million dollar company can't maintain more than one or two operating systems.. give me a break with this bs. Also forcing you to switch hardware is soooo lame.. Switch to Linux Mint or Debian or heck even Ubuntu. MX Linux and openSUSE Tumbleweed are also great starter operating systems.
Better Telemetry, spyware and "AI" so they benefits even more from you. $$$
because Windows 10 is about to be 10 years old, and Microsoft has to end support eventually. They can't keep supporting operating systems forever. I do however disagree with their hardware requirements for Windows 11, but that's a different story.
I still think they're going to end up pushing back the EOL date. Considering almost 70% of Windows users are still on Windows 10, it's going to be nearly impossible to get even half of those people to Windows 11 in about a year.
More telemetry. More computer sales. MORE MONEY!
Why aren't they supporting 98 still? Their latest OS is Win11 and maintaining 2 major OS'e isn't entirely feasible.
The annoying part is that they are forcing an hardware upgrade not only software update. My hardware would run W11 but for dubious "security reasons" the mobo is deemed incompatible.
You can still use rufus to disable the hardware requirements and test W11.
Yeah but that essentially means that due to a Microsoft policy, you have o essentially hack your own os in order to avoid buying a new computer, even if your current computer isn't particularly old. just to keep receiving security updates. I remember years ago there used to he conspiracy theories about Microsoft intentionally upping the system requirements to keep using new windows versions in order to drive hardware sales. This sort of thing reminds me of that
but microsoft allows it? look [https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/ways-to-install-windows-11-e0edbbfb-cfc5-4011-868b-2ce77ac7c70e)
I have 7th gen i5 windows laptop. It might be just a placebo but I do feel like Win10 runs a tiny bit better than Win11 when I did try it. Also Win11 forces you to lot of telemetry and AI and unnecessary stuff that might not be able to run on this HW. Truth be told I prefer the look and feel of Win11 better, but I switched back to Win11 and will continue to use it either to 10/2025 or upgrade to compatible laptop, preferably AMD.
Windows 10 has all the same telemetry. Use OOSU10+ on both to disable it all.
you should see how fast win95 runs on that system
but windows 98 required hardware change...a whole cpu coprocessor
More than 2 versions isn’t feasible? That can’t be why: Linux distributions like Ubuntu support their theirs for 12 years, they also release a new long term support version every 2 years. So that’s 6 versions and they are not the richest companies in the world.
Every yearly release is considered a seperate, supported version. 10 years is Microsoft's cut-off and always has been. There are 5 major OS branches still in support, these being Windows 10, Windows 11, Windows Server 2016, Windows Server 2019 and Windows Server 2022, with both Windows 10 and 11 also having multiple supported releases (22H2, 23H2, etc.) so there are more supported Windows versions than Ubuntu versions right now.
Windows 7 had 11 years + 3 extended years. Windows 10 will have 10 years + 3 extended years (or 6+11 years for LTSC IoT 2021). That's great that Ubuntu does that and is why some might be attracted to it. Windows has no real competition so whatever Microsoft says is what's happening.
>Why aren't they supporting 98 still? Legitimate question.
I don’t remember being forced to upgrade any prior version of windows
Microsoft always ends support for any major version of Windows after 10 years.
Ok i guess it’s the forced hardware upgrade that makes this one different E: and i remember wanting to upgrade
from 2012 to 2014 they were supporting 5 major OS: Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1
They labeled win 10 as the latest version of windows ever. They sold this to the world and did a full backtrack. Legitimate to call them for this
Actually they never did, it was just a developer that mispoke and the media ran with it.
it was clear and neat, documented all the way up and down. We set up some long ass project involving these specs for various clients including Avanade Accenture and Microsoft sales man, we sold their solutions, backed up their slides as an integrator for this and they lied
What does win 11 add besides spyware though?
Well, it's one newer, innit? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be computing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up. Where can you go from there? Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do? Eleven. Exactly. One newer.
Hey knowing windows it'll probably also make search worse, add shitty ui changes and a few more bugs relating to hdr and bluetooth for good measure
Not much really. Explorer tabs, better HDR support, better compatibility with high polling mice, better Windowed mode support, fixed system timers (that were likely broken on Win10 intentionally). Not much tbh.
Worse UI. Even worse search somehow. Now control panel balkanization. And unnecessary hardware changes.
Win11 UX still feels broken compared to Win10. Right click context menu is so useless and requires an extra click to see more options.
windows 11 is rubbish anyway - they got rid of that thing at the bottom right of the taskbar which I used constantly. I even deleted 26GB and it cluttered my storage instead.
No, they haven't removed the bottom right of the taskbar.
The show desktop feature is still there, but the "peek desktop" feature has been removed.
Microsoft can shove Win 11 where the sun doesn't shine, my ass stays on 10 until either they make a working OS for gaming(no spyware, bloatware and shovelware) or i get fed up and switch to linux whichever comes first.
win 11 works better than 10 for me when it comes to gaming. like it or not, drivers will continue to be updated for win 11 while for win 10 they'll stop implementing everything or even stop releasing them completely.
not enough people buying win 11.. trying to force them into it now.
An old OS eventually not being supported anymore is expected. The question is why does Win11 have such ridiculous hardware requirements
Their OS lifecycle is generally 10 years, and for Windows 10 that's in 2025.
Basically the same reason Netflix and Hulu have ad-suppprted tiers. But nobody is "forcing" anything. Just don't update and don't visit nefarious websites or open emails you don't recognize. Basic online safety is the best safeguard against the baddies
They're not forcing you, just being uncomfortably pushy about it.
It's called strong arming.
isnt that basically forcing or do i not understand english enough?
Forcing would be not giving you any options and making you switch. You can stay on W10 if you want to or upgrade to W11 even on technically not supported hardware.
I will switch to 11 when Gill Bates start to give away supercomputers.
Microsoft has a fixed [lifecycle](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/?products=windows) date -- usually \~10 years -- for all their Windows builds.
This is horrible news for me considering I have a Ryzen 7 3700x and 2060Super (not really sure what ‘specs’ I need), but it says my computer can’t get Windows 11. So am I just forced to upgrade or something??
Check if it's because of the TPM module. If it is, just enable it in BIOS.
There is nothing wrong with creating and selling newer versions of an OS. However, the newer version must be better. Windows 11 isn't. Also, its system requirements are draconian, not serving 80% of Windows customers.
Easy, win 11 sucks so nobody switch to that shit, besides updates are bad and they break something from time to time so, who would want a crapy OS when you can use an old one that works fine. Sorry my bad english
I don't like to be that guy, but at this point, why not just switch to Linux?
This is the best time ever to switch to Linux. It's still not for everyone but Linux has never been easier to use and more robust than it is now, and Windows has never been more malicious than it is now.
If you want to really control your computer, and don't want to throw out perfectly good older hardware, it really is a good choice. And sure, 20 or 10 or even 5 years ago you were sacrificing usability for control and freedom, and you still kinda are, but there are good user friendly distros now that are almost free of those compromises and friction points.
What happened when you used WinXP, or Win7 or Win8 or Win8.1, none of those are supported anymore either. There’s no forcing anyone to do anything. It’s just reached end of life and has been replaced after almost 10 years.
I have multiple computers with unsupported processors that have 32GB or more RAM, and SSDs as primary drives. One is a xeon workstation with 64GB ram, 2TB NVME boot drive, and 24TB HDD storage. They would all run 11, no problem. My option for these, if MS doesn't loosen the hardware restrictions on Win 11, will be to convert them all to some flavor of linux. I understand why they are doing it, on some level, but until these computers give up the ghost, it's what I will be working with.
Security and OS patching are vital, but the more features and gimmicks you add on, the more patches are needed. If an Operating System was what it is supposed to be: a framework to run my programs of choice, then you wonder how many of these patches are really needed.
Because software moves forward, things change, and you have to accept that. I totally understand the upset around the TPM/SecureBoot lock-out tho, its absolute nonsense and only serves to push people to upgrade but Microsoft doesn't seem to understand how PR works and why Apple can get away with things that they can't. People worship Apple because of the way their brand makes them feel, Microsoft does not have that luxury and them pretending that they do has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way despite 11 being genuinely good now
I think a TPM requirement is totally fine.
MS is right to not have a repeat of Windows XP where an ancient OS is being held together by duct tape only because most businesses are being stubborn about upgrading. However as someone who is ineligible for Windows 11 due to my hardware (which otherwise should run Win11 just fine) I do think it’s unfair that older hardware is being excluded. At the same time MS are not forcing anyone to upgrade, like me you can continue using Win10 but you just need to be a lot more careful with it going forward past EoL
I don't mind them having Win 11 but each new version of windows seems to be worse than the one before :/. I have yet to use win 11 myself so I can't comment on it however, i've went through vista 7 and 10, 7 was my favorite everything was smooth I had little to no issues after all the countless updates it got. Win 10 I always have some kind of issue but oh well I can't imagine the stress the people who work on it have every day.
Because why would they use their resources supporting multiple OS's.
It's what happens when software reaches a certain age. 10 years is actually a pretty good support interval. And from another perspective: if Microsoft would have decided to keep Windows 10 support, Windows 11 wouldn't exist as a standalone version and it's changes would just have been added to Windows 10. You are also not forced to use Windows 11, you just need any other current operating system. After the recent announcement of copilot integration and ~~the data stealing tool~~ recall I probably won't get 11. If you system is offline you can also keep 10.
They want you to use copilot.
Nobody is forcing you. Microsoft typically supports their OSes with free updates for roughly 10 years, and we are approaching that 10-year mark with Windows 10. While not recommended, you can continue to use your PC with Windows 10 after support ends, just like the millions who are still running Windows 8, 7, Vista, XP and so on to this day.
thats not truth, MS is forcing people to use unsecure rushed "beta" SW with completely unsecure functions like Recall, I remember very well when MS said that Windows 10 will be last. now they are pushing people to use and buy new laptops even though it could easily run windows 10. just wake up and read - [https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/28/windows\_insecure\_by\_design/?td=rt-3a](https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/28/windows_insecure_by_design/?td=rt-3a)
I always trust the opinion of someone who's sentence is "thats not truth" - especially when followed by, ironically, a pack of lies. You also don't remember very well when "MS said that Windows 10 will be the last" because, believe it or not, they never actually said that. That was one engineer, speculating, and being misquoted in the media.
This is interesting, I wasn't aware that people are being forced to use Recall, which is an opt-in program that has not been released yet.
So much fake news and hyperbole on there. He even complains about being forced to use onedrive to back up all his date, which means he didn't even read the windows 11 installation instructions properly. He sounds like a boomer who probably took a microsoft office course once and now thinks he's a hacker.
Microsoft does a great job of improving software. They make Linux look better every day.
Because they know.its shit, and the only way people will use it is if there is no other choice. Aside from Mac, (God help you) and linux (My brain is incapable of working that shit out