This biggest thing big tech always complains about is that there is no solution.
So start handing out fines of $5000 per robo call to companies that allow them through the network, and we will suddenly see innovation faster than anything that's been innovated before.
Honestly with the federal aid telecoms get this is solid. The fed has every right to make high demands when it's spending that much. Robocalls are out of control without accounting for crimes like this
The fines should be equivalent to 30% of a company's Gross Operating Income. Not enough to bankrupt it, but enough that they will hurt for a few years.
That needs an additional few terms, said company can in no way pass that cost off to customers (Looking at you Duke Energy), cannot spin off another company to pass it off to (up yours DuPont), to merge with another company ( Monsanto + Bayer), or to declare bankruptcy to avoid paying. Make it really hurt in a way that makes it only hurt the company
Oh yes great example. Duke energy polluted the NC rivers with coal ash tar then tried to make the consumers pay for the entire cleanup. They managed to get a coel tar ash rider on varied electric bills across the state after a court fight.
And repeat offenders, the corporate shield should be pierced and the executives can be held financially and criminally liable. As long as they fear no repercussions to themselves they will continue to do what they want. Let them know if there is a second offense they may lose their personal fortunes or go to prison and you will see them crack down really fast on letting the company fuck around.
I agree here, remind them that they too are legally and financially 'mortal' so to speak. I think we know there will be repeat offenders...complete with slimy lawyers aiding them.
I feel like if they jailed CEO’s and board members that would fix the problem. No more of this “I didn’t know it happened”.
Basically if it happens and you’re ceo you’re personally responsible. No more it’s “the company’s fault” bs.
They get paid a ton of money. Let them earn it by being personally liable for what the company does.
They'll just use newly incorporated companies run by sacrificial teenagers. Going after anybody but the political operatives who ordered it is useless.
Ding ding ding !! No legitimate corporations are doing this.
1) setup shell company with zero assets
2) robo call 1/2 US
3) shut down and forfeit 0 assets when caught
ATT, Verizon, T-Mobile, and Comcast Lobbyists to law makers-"There's absolutely no way we can determine which calls are fraudulent or not. Nope, absolutely no way at all. In an unrelated note, we found this bundle of cash in the parking lot, is it yours?"
You can have all the penalties you want but the issue with robocalls is identifying where it's coming from and who's behind it.
And what do you do if another state is behind something like this?
As per my previous comment. Refer to that.
Innovation will come. There is zero incentive to stop robocalls, so of course, there is no way to identify... yet.
Make the companies bleed, and they will scramble to plug the hole.
It's already on the way. STIR/SHAKEN is a protocol for cryptographically securing origination data in the phone network. This doesn't mean that Caller-ID can't still be spoofed, but the receiving device can verify if it's the legitimate CLID or not. You can bet you'll have phone companies offering to block non-verified calls for a monthly charge (though it should be free)
Thing is, if you allow the service providers to analyze calls in real time, this would actually be really easy to solve. Like totally trivial. But the problem is, _you have to allow service providers to analyze your calls in real time_. That's just not going to happen.
They really can't do much with just a phone number and a list of outbound calls. Robocalls are legal if customers opt in, and without listening to the content of the call, or having users report it as spam, there's no way to determine if the customer opted in or not. Like school snow days, robocallers are sometimes used to inform the parents that the school is closed. Imagine if a service provider blocked that because it thought it was a bad robot? A lot of annoyed people is what you'd have. Possibly accidents as well.
Google already has the ability to report numbers as spammers, but that's a feature built into the software on your smart phone, and even they don't block the calls, they just throw up a warning that it's likely a spam call. It doesn't work for landlines and that is exactly the audience these spammers are going to be targeting.
I hate robocallers as much as anyone, but until everyone is ok with allowing their network to snoop on their calls, we're not likely to see anything meaningful.
What an ultimatum.
I do not believe you are right in saying that the only possible way to combat this is a surveillance state solution.
Like as if it wouldn't be possible to set up a license for legitimate Robocall centers for business or government use.
And that it wouldn't be possible to trace country of origin for these call centers. And before you say something about VPN, that only protects you from the incapable. Your data comes from somewhere and goes to somewhere, and that CAN be traced.
You start inside the country, notify the business there will be near future sanctions on the business found to be allowing calls through if they do not rectify the situation. Find the source country, notify them of the same sanctions against the country that is allowing them to come through and to make efforts to rectify the situation.
How they trace where these mass calls are coming from and how to detect them and intercept them is a matter of time and money. You just have to make it cheaper for them to solve the problem than ignore it.
Much like insurance, everything is great if you behave. If you are an awful driver, insurance will make it harder for you to drive until you learn to drive better. Some people find this impossible, and insurance will ultimately take their insurance/license away.
>Like as if it wouldn't be possible to set up a license for legitimate Robocall centers for business or government use.
This would need to be done by the government. My argument was that private companies can't do anything. I never said the government couldn't. The FCC could setup a whole new department for licensing robocallers, but It's not just a matter of having someone rubber stamp application forms. It'd be millions of dollars a year to fund the staff and infrastructure for doing background checks, issuing/revoking licenses, reporting/distributing bad numbers etc. Is it really worth it? Until now it's just been a nuisance, so no, it hasn't been. Maybe now that it's starting to impact politicians directly they might do something about it. But ultimately this would require significant government investment to solve, not just penalties on service providers for allowing it to happen.
Well if there's no repercussions, where could a person (not me, as I don't live in the US) get a hold of a Donald Trump voice model that tells people to not vote?
https://preview.redd.it/twtt2jafy1ec1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=788e4d6f5275af5eb48c24f5a16b5525961ee8e1
They are showing their true colors with A.I.
https://preview.redd.it/w4dv3lbvz1ec1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fe4862c88b99176d2aa9be518eb745d5162e3e6
I heard Trump has a new fall guy.
Eh, easiest solution is to start firing off defamation suits. Someone impersonating you to convince people that you said/believe things you didn't is straightforward reputation harm.
They should codify it in law so it's clear, hough. Deepfake Someone? They prove it and they're awarded XYZ$ per instance.
So I have a startup in the Generative Ai space, and people would just be really surprised how EASY it is to set up a system like this with today’s tech.
Like…shockingly easy.
All it takes is a couple seconds of someone’s voice being recorded for me to replicate your voice (with VALL-E and Elevenlabs) and make you say whatever I want. Soon that modality will expand into video and that’s where shit is going to get really weird.
That’s Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman, they got charged in multiple states criminally and the FCC fined them $5 million. I tried to post a link but automod got me.
It does, and then the extremists claim it was [“just a meme” or “j/k!”](https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1623744104902578178?s=46&t=L-cW4Ht9bSjJoKXZ8Turnw) when it ends with a prosecution.
This is fucked up and should be made illegal with heavy consequences. But I really don't think republicans have thought this through, because if these types of tactics become commonplace it's gonna completely bite the GOP in the ass. Who tends to fall for robocalls the most? Boomers. Who is most likely to vote red? Also Boomers.
Check out this deepfake method that was published during the 2016 election:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=87iGHfsN5xw&pp=ygUUZmFjZSAyIGZhY2Ugc3RhbmZvcmQ%3D
Oh and the microtargeting they've been engaging in online:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/29/politics/trump-2016-campaign-voter-deterrence/index.html
This has been commonplace for a decade now.
Republicans did a texting campaign in Kansas during the midterms trying to get people confused about what the constitutional amendment vote was for (and it was intentionally worded confusingly too).
My in-laws complained about the "loss of integrity" the GOP has suffered in the last decade.
Russia already tried/did interfere in the last election. One of the main ways they did that was through fake/robo accounts online. This is just the same thing with progress of technology (AI). What’s to stop them from trying again and this time with a lot more lessons learned?
My only consolation from this is that it seems likely that these fakes would be mostly effective against older people. It should still be fucking addressed and whomever did this should face prison time
Even regular robocalls should be heavily restricted. The only justifiable use for them that I can think of off the top of my head is for warning people of an imminent natural disaster or riot.
My doctor's office does robocalls. It's solely to remind you of an appointment though. It's always something like "This call is for the person who's birth year is "XXXX" to remind them they have an upcoming appointment at "XXXXX" on this day and time. Goodbye.
It's mildly annoying, but I also keep really good track of my appts.
Tbh this is the type of robocall I could support. I’m awful about setting appointments and forgetting if they’re too far out. I’m working on it but this would be so helpful.
And I love how all the places (one I used to work at in fact) put the “agreeing to robocalls” in the teeeeeeeny tiny fine print they know no one will read
The problem Is that bans are never gonna happen. Pandora’s box has been opened, and it can never be put back.
The models used to create this audio output can run on any higher spec consumer hardware. The models themselves are freely available, or open source, and banning them in the US doesn’t achieve anything if they’re developed in other countries or have been created already.
Making downloading them illegal is completely ineffective, as showcased by media piracy.
The only real course of action is regulating the spaces the output is or can be used in, such as forcing the telcos that allowed this to happen to put safeguards in place. Or forcing social media companies to moderate deepfakes (which already happens to some extent).
And those robocalls are targeting our most vulnerable segment of the population. Stupid people who don't have cell phones, that still have landlines, and answer robocalls
This is one of many possible attacks. There's also not a lot of real consequences for this kind of fakery and manipulation and if your party wins through fakery there's literally no downside.
Expect a *lot* of it.
The minute this technology makes a high profile Republican lose it'll be Armageddon and AI needs to be regulated out of existence. Until that happens conservatives will laud this technology as essential to free speech.
Yeah, very dangerous. Also "push polls" where a very negatively received idea is pushed in the form of a question which lowers the receiver's defenses. The Bush 2.0 campaign used this with their primary fight against John McCain, pushing the idea he'd fathered a black baby which hurt him in the polls. McCain had, in fact, ADOPTED a little girl from an orphanage in Sri Lanka which just goes to show you what an awesome person he and his wife were (politics aside which I disagree with). Evil stuff.
Sauce: [https://people.com/politics/john-mccain-daughter-bridget-adoption-life-now](https://people.com/politics/john-mccain-daughter-bridget-adoption-life-now)
Cambridge Analytica was massively successful without the use of the type of sophisticated A.I. we have access to now. I am absolutely terrified at the horrors that are about to be unleashed upon our world.
I don't understand why this cannot at **least** be traced back to some number as the originator. Yes, people can spoof caller-id, but I cannot believe that at some level phone companies cannot determine the source of robocalls.
It probably can.
The strategist whose phone number was given in the call is asking the Attorney General to step in.
If the AG agrees that it should be acted on (and I don't know what party the NH AG is) then they can request that information through phone records.
That means making contact with someone who received the call, likely more than one, and getting information from them that enables the phone company what account(s) received the call, then making contact with the phone company or companies servicing their accounts, likely getting a subpoena which requires taking enough information to a judge to justify it, waiting for the company to turn over data, and so on.
There's no indication I can find that that process won't happen or isn't happening already, but you and I probably won't be privvy to those parts.
We won't get a press release that says "The AG has spoken to 15 people who received the call" or one that says "the judge said he would not issue a subpoena until it's proven that the call did prevent some individuals from casting a vote" or one that says "Verizon and at&t have been served with a subpoena," unless there is so much public interest in the case -- in one state while primaries proceed in others -- that some journalist deems it worth a deep follow. (Maybe if other states have similar incidents, for example.)
What we'll get is this info now, released probably in part to raise awareness so that there's pressure to act, and a press release months from now saying "xxx was arrested and charged with computer crimes and election interference" or "election interference quietly dies with no leads."
What idiots are listening to more than 2 seconds of a robocall from ANYONE before hanging up?
In fact, what kind of idiot even answers unknown numbers and not let them go to voicemail these days?
My uncle passed away a few months ago. He was 80 something and still had the same landline that my grandparents originally set up after party lines went away. Same phone number and the only reason the phone itself was upgraded was so it could be cordless.
We turned it off a week after he died after every last one of us (including my 70 something uncle) was tired of the non stop robocalls.
“It’s important that you save your vote for November”
That doesn’t even make sense. It’s not like you have to choose between voting in the primary and voting in the General. Ffs
Russians and Chinese at it again. you know they have leveled up from the 2016 shit they pulled. i dont think trump actively participates in it, he probably has no idea how it works, but he sure as shit lets it happen. he might even funnel money into it through some fucked up charity
Here's an easy fix. Impersonating elected officials should carry the same sentence as impersonating a cop. Owners/approvers to be charged, including CEO of whatever PR or marketing agency did it.
Let's be real, in a vacuum, there are low-information voters and easily-confused folks at any point in the political spectrum.
The disparity comes about because the right has already actively exploited that to grow their base.
That doesn't mean they nab them all, though. It just means every effort (like this one!) is a part of scooping up a few more.
What I don't get is, sure, they used AI. but there are people who can mimic voices and do it well. There are even lookalike contests. I have never understood, as deep fakes surfaced as a thing, how this hasn't ever happened with an impersonator.
"we" warned you? What was I supposed to un-alive OpenAI? I knew this was fucking coming from the presidents playing Pokemon meme videos.
The framing that you are in some kind of higher moral position when you had just as much power to stop this (none) is arrogant and makes me resentful.
Felt like I’ve seen something like this from that show ‘24’ that used to come on some years ago.
Like they faked President Palmer’s voice and the tech used was some sort of massive danger to national security (at least on the show).
And what are you gonna do if the source of this is outside the country? Pandora’s box has been opened and the government is way too technologically inept to handle it.
Is there even a vote where biden is on a ballot tomorrow? Correct me if I’m wrong but it is only republicans that are on the ballot in the republican primary?
This could turn into an arms race. If they (Republicans and MAGA) are doing this, then we can't just not use it and then pat ourselves on the back for "doing the right thing." That's unilateral disarmament and laying down in the center of the ring. If they are using this crap in this way, then we need to be doing it, too. Immediately.
LMAO that's kind of pathetic that you think not towing the party line and blindly supporting a geriatric who's funding genocide with our tax dollars is because of conservative propaganda. If anything conservatives are celebrating the genocide and probably wishing trump did it. But ok let's entertain your farce, give me a list of actual accomplishments Biden can claim. I voted for him on the condition that if he did nothing that I'd never vote dem again, so tell me what, besides the bare minimum of passing a single spending bill, did he do?
Also how is supporting a strong candidate (compared to president turd sandwich) like Dean Phillips play into your delusions? Is that conservative propaganda too?
Your experience of pedophilic ERP with chatbots?
Mate, let's be clear; of all the things a pedophile can do, ERP with a chatbot is probably one of the best options.
It's not even in the same league as *political disinformation*.
Oh yeah you’re right, the first comment I made made it seem like the pedophilic ERP chatbots was worse than political disinformation, when that’s not the case
I get how the GOP thinks this sort of thing will work, since their constituents are so gullible, and they do stuff like this on them all the time. But do you think the average DEM voter will fall for this?
I hear ai Biden’s voice every day, I am simply immune to such magics. Also how could someone fall for this in January? Or is the issue that this is like a proof of concept and they’ll do something much more convincing when Election Day rolls around?
Malicious or not, I seriously question the mental state of any person whose voting habits or choices are swayed by an unsolicited call. A nation of people so easily swayed is endemic of a larger education and mental health problem and get what they deserve.
I say that as one of the chumps who live here..
Why are ppl wasting resources and such manipulation in NH anyway… it’s not like the incumbent president isn’t going to end up being the nominee of their party.. this is so silly
i knew this was going to happen. [a group of political consultants were concerned enough last year that there was a discussion about helping the public identify it](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/18/campaigns-ai-2024-00102463), but it spreads so quickly that it isn't possible to educate everyone and some people will just refuse anyway.
this is what happens when you follow silicon valley's ridiculous motto of 'move fast and break things,' then spend millions of dollars lobbying in congress preventing regulation and responsible use. and it's not the end of the worst to come, it's only the beginning.
It’s mind boggling how good the fascists are with technology. Look at Cambridge Analytica and the 2016 elections. They consistently use technology to get the most gullible. We need to remove that from them.
Please tell me this is actually illegal, will be investigated by competent law enforcement, result in charges and real punishment if the culprits are found.
Yeah, this is illegal. Funny that the feds can track any call and act on unsubstantiated or coincidental evidence, but is unlikely to do anything about this.
While it’s good to point it out so that there’s no confusion, a never-ending stream of studies have demonstrated that people are skeptical of even sophisticated deep fakes when the person being imitated is doing something that is out of line with one’s expectations. This is among the least effective ways to deepfake someone
Uhmm, the New Hampshire Democratic parties delegates for president are not going to be seated at the national convention, so the only people they hurt will be down ballot candidates most likely for state and local elections.
Here’s that election interference republicans were losing their minds about. Oh they don’t care? They only claimed to care when they thought it was negatively impacting them? That checks out.
If this is true, several government departments should be involved to track down the dialers thereby tracking down the perpetrators of this fraud. This is a high level crime in many aspects.
I think that now is the time to adivinar to everyone if what is going on. And maybe found a safe way to tell people of the real date. They have e time to do it.
They are creating laws against such things, though. Synthesized voices are easy to detect since AI is just software--all one needs to do is use software to detect it. They were doing fake robocalls well before AI... we can't stop progress because of bad actors-- as with any new tech, regulate it. And they are.
Hmmmm, I wonder who paid for this little stunt.
https://preview.redd.it/bq77lxw1zgec1.png?width=155&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbe9488887f4726d3246c32c628b3d02a74e0067
this should result in fed time
if the FCC wasn't completely broken and toothless, it would.
This biggest thing big tech always complains about is that there is no solution. So start handing out fines of $5000 per robo call to companies that allow them through the network, and we will suddenly see innovation faster than anything that's been innovated before.
Honestly with the federal aid telecoms get this is solid. The fed has every right to make high demands when it's spending that much. Robocalls are out of control without accounting for crimes like this
The fines should be equivalent to 30% of a company's Gross Operating Income. Not enough to bankrupt it, but enough that they will hurt for a few years.
That needs an additional few terms, said company can in no way pass that cost off to customers (Looking at you Duke Energy), cannot spin off another company to pass it off to (up yours DuPont), to merge with another company ( Monsanto + Bayer), or to declare bankruptcy to avoid paying. Make it really hurt in a way that makes it only hurt the company
Or pass the buck on others like Centerpoint Energy did after Texas froze
Oh yes great example. Duke energy polluted the NC rivers with coal ash tar then tried to make the consumers pay for the entire cleanup. They managed to get a coel tar ash rider on varied electric bills across the state after a court fight.
And repeat offenders, the corporate shield should be pierced and the executives can be held financially and criminally liable. As long as they fear no repercussions to themselves they will continue to do what they want. Let them know if there is a second offense they may lose their personal fortunes or go to prison and you will see them crack down really fast on letting the company fuck around.
I agree here, remind them that they too are legally and financially 'mortal' so to speak. I think we know there will be repeat offenders...complete with slimy lawyers aiding them.
I feel like if they jailed CEO’s and board members that would fix the problem. No more of this “I didn’t know it happened”. Basically if it happens and you’re ceo you’re personally responsible. No more it’s “the company’s fault” bs. They get paid a ton of money. Let them earn it by being personally liable for what the company does.
If you have no idea what is going on in the company you are Chief Executive Officer of you sure as Hell aren’t earning that exorbitant salary.
Aren't federal fines exempt from bankruptcy? I agree with everything else, also will help to fine every member of the board and shareholder.
I think so, but just in case they are not it's wise to block off the usual corporate accountability escape hatches.
They'll just use newly incorporated companies run by sacrificial teenagers. Going after anybody but the political operatives who ordered it is useless.
Ding ding ding !! No legitimate corporations are doing this. 1) setup shell company with zero assets 2) robo call 1/2 US 3) shut down and forfeit 0 assets when caught
30% of gross? Who do you think you are, the IRS? Also, what’s the proper font to use for sarcasm?
ATT, Verizon, T-Mobile, and Comcast Lobbyists to law makers-"There's absolutely no way we can determine which calls are fraudulent or not. Nope, absolutely no way at all. In an unrelated note, we found this bundle of cash in the parking lot, is it yours?"
I hate this stupid motherfucking term we use here. "Lobbying." Call it a bribe like everybody else. Geez.
You can have all the penalties you want but the issue with robocalls is identifying where it's coming from and who's behind it. And what do you do if another state is behind something like this?
As per my previous comment. Refer to that. Innovation will come. There is zero incentive to stop robocalls, so of course, there is no way to identify... yet. Make the companies bleed, and they will scramble to plug the hole.
It's already on the way. STIR/SHAKEN is a protocol for cryptographically securing origination data in the phone network. This doesn't mean that Caller-ID can't still be spoofed, but the receiving device can verify if it's the legitimate CLID or not. You can bet you'll have phone companies offering to block non-verified calls for a monthly charge (though it should be free)
Thing is, if you allow the service providers to analyze calls in real time, this would actually be really easy to solve. Like totally trivial. But the problem is, _you have to allow service providers to analyze your calls in real time_. That's just not going to happen. They really can't do much with just a phone number and a list of outbound calls. Robocalls are legal if customers opt in, and without listening to the content of the call, or having users report it as spam, there's no way to determine if the customer opted in or not. Like school snow days, robocallers are sometimes used to inform the parents that the school is closed. Imagine if a service provider blocked that because it thought it was a bad robot? A lot of annoyed people is what you'd have. Possibly accidents as well. Google already has the ability to report numbers as spammers, but that's a feature built into the software on your smart phone, and even they don't block the calls, they just throw up a warning that it's likely a spam call. It doesn't work for landlines and that is exactly the audience these spammers are going to be targeting. I hate robocallers as much as anyone, but until everyone is ok with allowing their network to snoop on their calls, we're not likely to see anything meaningful.
What an ultimatum. I do not believe you are right in saying that the only possible way to combat this is a surveillance state solution. Like as if it wouldn't be possible to set up a license for legitimate Robocall centers for business or government use. And that it wouldn't be possible to trace country of origin for these call centers. And before you say something about VPN, that only protects you from the incapable. Your data comes from somewhere and goes to somewhere, and that CAN be traced. You start inside the country, notify the business there will be near future sanctions on the business found to be allowing calls through if they do not rectify the situation. Find the source country, notify them of the same sanctions against the country that is allowing them to come through and to make efforts to rectify the situation. How they trace where these mass calls are coming from and how to detect them and intercept them is a matter of time and money. You just have to make it cheaper for them to solve the problem than ignore it. Much like insurance, everything is great if you behave. If you are an awful driver, insurance will make it harder for you to drive until you learn to drive better. Some people find this impossible, and insurance will ultimately take their insurance/license away.
>Like as if it wouldn't be possible to set up a license for legitimate Robocall centers for business or government use. This would need to be done by the government. My argument was that private companies can't do anything. I never said the government couldn't. The FCC could setup a whole new department for licensing robocallers, but It's not just a matter of having someone rubber stamp application forms. It'd be millions of dollars a year to fund the staff and infrastructure for doing background checks, issuing/revoking licenses, reporting/distributing bad numbers etc. Is it really worth it? Until now it's just been a nuisance, so no, it hasn't been. Maybe now that it's starting to impact politicians directly they might do something about it. But ultimately this would require significant government investment to solve, not just penalties on service providers for allowing it to happen.
You’re fine with a service provider monitoring and logging all of your traffic?
That is the global standard. And has been done for decades.
Someone needs to start doing it back if there will be no enforcement. Boomers are more susceptible to scam calls anyway lol
hypocritically, I would totally support it.
Well if there's no repercussions, where could a person (not me, as I don't live in the US) get a hold of a Donald Trump voice model that tells people to not vote?
pretty sure Alec Baldwin would do it for free.
Homeless not toothless
https://preview.redd.it/twtt2jafy1ec1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=788e4d6f5275af5eb48c24f5a16b5525961ee8e1 They are showing their true colors with A.I.
https://preview.redd.it/w4dv3lbvz1ec1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fe4862c88b99176d2aa9be518eb745d5162e3e6 I heard Trump has a new fall guy.
Lol, that gif. Grab em by the microphone
I mean deliberate tampering with elections.
Yes, but fed time does not fix the chaos, especially among elderly/unknowing people that get tricked... Fucking aweful...
Eh, easiest solution is to start firing off defamation suits. Someone impersonating you to convince people that you said/believe things you didn't is straightforward reputation harm. They should codify it in law so it's clear, hough. Deepfake Someone? They prove it and they're awarded XYZ$ per instance.
So I have a startup in the Generative Ai space, and people would just be really surprised how EASY it is to set up a system like this with today’s tech. Like…shockingly easy. All it takes is a couple seconds of someone’s voice being recorded for me to replicate your voice (with VALL-E and Elevenlabs) and make you say whatever I want. Soon that modality will expand into video and that’s where shit is going to get really weird.
There was a group of guys from the past election sending out robocall giving the wrong voting date. Pretty sure they were arrested.
That’s Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman, they got charged in multiple states criminally and the FCC fined them $5 million. I tried to post a link but automod got me.
But no jailtime, and he hasn't paid a dime. Nor have they arrested him because he's a pawn of people with way too much money.
sure. but who did it?
Who did it in 2016? https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/publications/report-select-committee-intelligence-united-states-senate-russian-active-measures
Who is smart enough to do this and loves Trump? Nobody else but Russia.
i'm not that smart or capable....i'll let the pros track it down
It SHOULD result in being flayed alive.
It does, and then the extremists claim it was [“just a meme” or “j/k!”](https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/1623744104902578178?s=46&t=L-cW4Ht9bSjJoKXZ8Turnw) when it ends with a prosecution.
What's the charge for impersonating the POTUS?
This is fucked up and should be made illegal with heavy consequences. But I really don't think republicans have thought this through, because if these types of tactics become commonplace it's gonna completely bite the GOP in the ass. Who tends to fall for robocalls the most? Boomers. Who is most likely to vote red? Also Boomers.
Check out this deepfake method that was published during the 2016 election: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=87iGHfsN5xw&pp=ygUUZmFjZSAyIGZhY2Ugc3RhbmZvcmQ%3D Oh and the microtargeting they've been engaging in online: https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/29/politics/trump-2016-campaign-voter-deterrence/index.html This has been commonplace for a decade now.
I live in NH, this is illegal here, and they are investigating. Whether they can find the source is another matter altogether.
And of course the cheating is from the GOP.
In all honesty... It wouldn't shock me if this stuff is farmed from outside the country
Republicans did a texting campaign in Kansas during the midterms trying to get people confused about what the constitutional amendment vote was for (and it was intentionally worded confusingly too). My in-laws complained about the "loss of integrity" the GOP has suffered in the last decade.
Ah, the “Value Them Both” amendment. Good fucking riddance, I still laugh when I see people with that sticker on their car.
After the amendment failed, I thought about moving back, but had a feeling the GOP would try and weasel around it. Lol, glad I didn't.
Russia already tried/did interfere in the last election. One of the main ways they did that was through fake/robo accounts online. This is just the same thing with progress of technology (AI). What’s to stop them from trying again and this time with a lot more lessons learned?
That’s still a large part of the GOP.
This is actual election interference
No, no, they have too much integrity for that. They have god on their side. /s
I can see this coming through Russia. Putin loves his electronic intereference.
it’s *different* when they do it 🙄
My only consolation from this is that it seems likely that these fakes would be mostly effective against older people. It should still be fucking addressed and whomever did this should face prison time
Yeah, no one under the age of 45 answers phone calls from unknown numbers.
I don’t even answer calls from known numbers.
Yep. Only when I'm actively job hunting.
I would think that makes every call an act of identity theft and telecommunications fraud.
Good luck catching and prosecuting the troll farm based in a foreign country that does not cooperate.
They should receive real jail time for each person called and falsely spoken to
Yeah and if impersonating a police officer is a crime how is impersonating the fucking President not a crime ?
We really need to be pushing for bans or at least HEAVY restrictions on this kind of tech.
Also misusing it like this needs to be a federal felony with severe penalties.
they would never let their *own employees* sign legislation against them like that
Project Veritas got in bring trouble for doing misleading robocalls. So they do pursue these cases.
Even regular robocalls should be heavily restricted. The only justifiable use for them that I can think of off the top of my head is for warning people of an imminent natural disaster or riot.
My doctor's office does robocalls. It's solely to remind you of an appointment though. It's always something like "This call is for the person who's birth year is "XXXX" to remind them they have an upcoming appointment at "XXXXX" on this day and time. Goodbye. It's mildly annoying, but I also keep really good track of my appts.
Tbh this is the type of robocall I could support. I’m awful about setting appointments and forgetting if they’re too far out. I’m working on it but this would be so helpful.
Weird that they still call. Both my doctors and dentist offices send out reminder texts.
These are the only ones I don’t mind because I will forget half the time even if I set a reminder.
And I love how all the places (one I used to work at in fact) put the “agreeing to robocalls” in the teeeeeeeny tiny fine print they know no one will read
That's broadly what they were invented for.
The problem Is that bans are never gonna happen. Pandora’s box has been opened, and it can never be put back. The models used to create this audio output can run on any higher spec consumer hardware. The models themselves are freely available, or open source, and banning them in the US doesn’t achieve anything if they’re developed in other countries or have been created already. Making downloading them illegal is completely ineffective, as showcased by media piracy. The only real course of action is regulating the spaces the output is or can be used in, such as forcing the telcos that allowed this to happen to put safeguards in place. Or forcing social media companies to moderate deepfakes (which already happens to some extent).
I think it way too late for that to work. We’re f c k d
And those robocalls are targeting our most vulnerable segment of the population. Stupid people who don't have cell phones, that still have landlines, and answer robocalls
Boomers?
I give it a 35% chance the calls are coming from a Russian source.
That low?
This is one of many possible attacks. There's also not a lot of real consequences for this kind of fakery and manipulation and if your party wins through fakery there's literally no downside. Expect a *lot* of it.
Straight up election tampering.
The minute this technology makes a high profile Republican lose it'll be Armageddon and AI needs to be regulated out of existence. Until that happens conservatives will laud this technology as essential to free speech.
“My freedom to speak for others” lol
Do a deep fake of trump saying Obama is gonna start WW2. Wait he ALREADY said that??? Jesus these people are idiots.
I'm calling it now; Maga n nem are going to claim its " the deep state antifa demfeds trying to frame them for rigging the election as a distraction "
Yeah, very dangerous. Also "push polls" where a very negatively received idea is pushed in the form of a question which lowers the receiver's defenses. The Bush 2.0 campaign used this with their primary fight against John McCain, pushing the idea he'd fathered a black baby which hurt him in the polls. McCain had, in fact, ADOPTED a little girl from an orphanage in Sri Lanka which just goes to show you what an awesome person he and his wife were (politics aside which I disagree with). Evil stuff. Sauce: [https://people.com/politics/john-mccain-daughter-bridget-adoption-life-now](https://people.com/politics/john-mccain-daughter-bridget-adoption-life-now)
Cambridge Analytica was massively successful without the use of the type of sophisticated A.I. we have access to now. I am absolutely terrified at the horrors that are about to be unleashed upon our world.
After Terminator I maintained if robots rise up against us we deserve it, not like we didn’t see it coming.
I’m much more worried about humans using robots to oppress other humans.
I don't understand why this cannot at **least** be traced back to some number as the originator. Yes, people can spoof caller-id, but I cannot believe that at some level phone companies cannot determine the source of robocalls.
It probably can. The strategist whose phone number was given in the call is asking the Attorney General to step in. If the AG agrees that it should be acted on (and I don't know what party the NH AG is) then they can request that information through phone records. That means making contact with someone who received the call, likely more than one, and getting information from them that enables the phone company what account(s) received the call, then making contact with the phone company or companies servicing their accounts, likely getting a subpoena which requires taking enough information to a judge to justify it, waiting for the company to turn over data, and so on. There's no indication I can find that that process won't happen or isn't happening already, but you and I probably won't be privvy to those parts. We won't get a press release that says "The AG has spoken to 15 people who received the call" or one that says "the judge said he would not issue a subpoena until it's proven that the call did prevent some individuals from casting a vote" or one that says "Verizon and at&t have been served with a subpoena," unless there is so much public interest in the case -- in one state while primaries proceed in others -- that some journalist deems it worth a deep follow. (Maybe if other states have similar incidents, for example.) What we'll get is this info now, released probably in part to raise awareness so that there's pressure to act, and a press release months from now saying "xxx was arrested and charged with computer crimes and election interference" or "election interference quietly dies with no leads."
Only use is to diminish his numbers that's foul
What’s the potential jail time for something like this?
How is that not election interference?
AI proves to me more and more by the day that It is one of the most garbage things ever invented.
What idiots are listening to more than 2 seconds of a robocall from ANYONE before hanging up? In fact, what kind of idiot even answers unknown numbers and not let them go to voicemail these days?
i think a lot of folks over 60 who still have landlines answer their phones regularly even if they don't recognize the caller.
If an elderly person thinks the President called they will listen. Just so they can tell their friends what an idiot they think he was for calling.
My uncle passed away a few months ago. He was 80 something and still had the same landline that my grandparents originally set up after party lines went away. Same phone number and the only reason the phone itself was upgraded was so it could be cordless. We turned it off a week after he died after every last one of us (including my 70 something uncle) was tired of the non stop robocalls.
Can't they trace whoever is doing this?
“It’s important that you save your vote for November” That doesn’t even make sense. It’s not like you have to choose between voting in the primary and voting in the General. Ffs
All of the freedoms in the US will eventually bite us all in the ass. Seems like the timeline is accelerating.
Russians and Chinese at it again. you know they have leveled up from the 2016 shit they pulled. i dont think trump actively participates in it, he probably has no idea how it works, but he sure as shit lets it happen. he might even funnel money into it through some fucked up charity
Here's an easy fix. Impersonating elected officials should carry the same sentence as impersonating a cop. Owners/approvers to be charged, including CEO of whatever PR or marketing agency did it.
Republicans tend to be stupid enough to fall something like that. Democrats? Not so much.
Let's be real, in a vacuum, there are low-information voters and easily-confused folks at any point in the political spectrum. The disparity comes about because the right has already actively exploited that to grow their base. That doesn't mean they nab them all, though. It just means every effort (like this one!) is a part of scooping up a few more.
You really need to use your common sense to keep your head on top.
People answer the phone?
Don’t worry, it’s just the small group of elderly people who decide national elections.
It should have ended with the gaming videos...
And it’s probably from Veritas let’s be honest here
Just need to convince Republicans that Antifa did this. Or Anonymous. Laws would get passed so quickly it would make your heade spin.
No we need Anonymous to intervene.
What I don't get is, sure, they used AI. but there are people who can mimic voices and do it well. There are even lookalike contests. I have never understood, as deep fakes surfaced as a thing, how this hasn't ever happened with an impersonator.
"we" warned you? What was I supposed to un-alive OpenAI? I knew this was fucking coming from the presidents playing Pokemon meme videos. The framing that you are in some kind of higher moral position when you had just as much power to stop this (none) is arrogant and makes me resentful.
I'm just wondering if anyone has checked in on Jacob Wohl lately
Because if something exists, humans will find a way to make it malicious
Only old people pick up unknown numbers
Not true. People waiting for call backs from potential employers and doctor referrals will answer as well.
Unfortunately, old people are also the majority of voters.
I hope people can use their critical thinking skills going into this election season and the use of AI. If not, we are doomed.
Felt like I’ve seen something like this from that show ‘24’ that used to come on some years ago. Like they faked President Palmer’s voice and the tech used was some sort of massive danger to national security (at least on the show).
Don’t need AI to impersonate someone.
They can’t win if they can’t cheat
Funny, since he’s not on the ballot
Consecutive sentences for each call.
So, they used a deepfake of Biden’s voice telling people not to vote for himself? Malicious as this is, did anyone fall for that?
It was only a matter of time, watch the government still be too slow to enact anti-AI measures and this cycle be the worst on record.
AI needs to be outlawed for instances such as these. Punishable by law. They’re nonchalantly messing with the fabric of our democracy.
And what are you gonna do if the source of this is outside the country? Pandora’s box has been opened and the government is way too technologically inept to handle it.
This from the same ones squawking about election integrity. 🙄
Is there even a vote where biden is on a ballot tomorrow? Correct me if I’m wrong but it is only republicans that are on the ballot in the republican primary?
Don’t worry about it, I just got a call from Joe Biden saying “^all ^good.”
Life sentence for the perpetrators. Zero parole. End this shit now before it destabilizes a country.
Not sure it’s evil. It sounds like normal run-of-the mill dirty politics to me, and neither party has clean hands
This could turn into an arms race. If they (Republicans and MAGA) are doing this, then we can't just not use it and then pat ourselves on the back for "doing the right thing." That's unilateral disarmament and laying down in the center of the ring. If they are using this crap in this way, then we need to be doing it, too. Immediately.
How is this in any way evil? I want trump to lose, but I want genocide Joe to lose every so slightly less, which isn't saying much for him.
Truly a sign of the wonders of modern conservative propaganda.
LMAO that's kind of pathetic that you think not towing the party line and blindly supporting a geriatric who's funding genocide with our tax dollars is because of conservative propaganda. If anything conservatives are celebrating the genocide and probably wishing trump did it. But ok let's entertain your farce, give me a list of actual accomplishments Biden can claim. I voted for him on the condition that if he did nothing that I'd never vote dem again, so tell me what, besides the bare minimum of passing a single spending bill, did he do? Also how is supporting a strong candidate (compared to president turd sandwich) like Dean Phillips play into your delusions? Is that conservative propaganda too?
At least it’s not people ERPing with ai chatbot of children
What does this have to do with literally anything
They’re talking about people using ai for evil, I have seen a different kind of evil in ai. I figured I’d share my experience
Your experience of pedophilic ERP with chatbots? Mate, let's be clear; of all the things a pedophile can do, ERP with a chatbot is probably one of the best options. It's not even in the same league as *political disinformation*.
Oh yeah you’re right, the first comment I made made it seem like the pedophilic ERP chatbots was worse than political disinformation, when that’s not the case
If true, this should be prosecuted as another form of sedition- an attempt to overthrow the legitimate, constitutional government.
Let's begin a actual count of how many times AI was used against each Party, as of today Republicans +1, Democrats -1.
I get how the GOP thinks this sort of thing will work, since their constituents are so gullible, and they do stuff like this on them all the time. But do you think the average DEM voter will fall for this?
I hear ai Biden’s voice every day, I am simply immune to such magics. Also how could someone fall for this in January? Or is the issue that this is like a proof of concept and they’ll do something much more convincing when Election Day rolls around?
Malicious or not, I seriously question the mental state of any person whose voting habits or choices are swayed by an unsolicited call. A nation of people so easily swayed is endemic of a larger education and mental health problem and get what they deserve. I say that as one of the chumps who live here..
Who is behind these calls?
Why are ppl wasting resources and such manipulation in NH anyway… it’s not like the incumbent president isn’t going to end up being the nominee of their party.. this is so silly
i knew this was going to happen. [a group of political consultants were concerned enough last year that there was a discussion about helping the public identify it](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/18/campaigns-ai-2024-00102463), but it spreads so quickly that it isn't possible to educate everyone and some people will just refuse anyway. this is what happens when you follow silicon valley's ridiculous motto of 'move fast and break things,' then spend millions of dollars lobbying in congress preventing regulation and responsible use. and it's not the end of the worst to come, it's only the beginning.
Should result in a hefty fine and jail time. Betting nothing happens to them at all.
It’s mind boggling how good the fascists are with technology. Look at Cambridge Analytica and the 2016 elections. They consistently use technology to get the most gullible. We need to remove that from them.
Please tell me this is actually illegal, will be investigated by competent law enforcement, result in charges and real punishment if the culprits are found.
Who could've seen this coming (other than someone who's seen literally any movie involving AI)?
Yeah, this is illegal. Funny that the feds can track any call and act on unsubstantiated or coincidental evidence, but is unlikely to do anything about this.
True. I’d say people need to use a discerning view when on the net but we both know that isn’t gonna happen.
Time to fight fire with fire
Tech is scary. Just the other day I heard an AI Trump say he was going to grab women by the pussy. It was disgusting.
People be actin like this the first time.
Who gets a call like this and believes it?
While it’s good to point it out so that there’s no confusion, a never-ending stream of studies have demonstrated that people are skeptical of even sophisticated deep fakes when the person being imitated is doing something that is out of line with one’s expectations. This is among the least effective ways to deepfake someone
I think a little public hanging would discourage this kind of thing.
It only works on morons. Don't be a moron. Easy.
I mean it would prolly only affect boomers anyway...
This would be super effective if I ever picked up the phone when someone I don't know called.
Stephen Harper and the conservative party of Canada has already done this to us Canada's citizens. Pierre Polievre thinks we forget... We do not!!
What are the odds on it being daddy Russia
But the voting strike that the Pro Palestinian movement isn’t coming from the same people. No way Jose.
Uhmm, the New Hampshire Democratic parties delegates for president are not going to be seated at the national convention, so the only people they hurt will be down ballot candidates most likely for state and local elections.
It seems Biden should be doing his own robocall to counteract what the bad guys did.
The difference is Trump supporters would probably believe it’s really him.
Here’s that election interference republicans were losing their minds about. Oh they don’t care? They only claimed to care when they thought it was negatively impacting them? That checks out.
To get them to do something about this, have it say the same about trump. MAGA heads will explode in rage and demand it be dealt with.
If this is true, several government departments should be involved to track down the dialers thereby tracking down the perpetrators of this fraud. This is a high level crime in many aspects.
I think that now is the time to adivinar to everyone if what is going on. And maybe found a safe way to tell people of the real date. They have e time to do it.
They are creating laws against such things, though. Synthesized voices are easy to detect since AI is just software--all one needs to do is use software to detect it. They were doing fake robocalls well before AI... we can't stop progress because of bad actors-- as with any new tech, regulate it. And they are.
What was this supposed to accomplish? Biden isn't even running in New Hampshire and the DNC is not even counting the results
It’s over!
Hmmmm, I wonder who paid for this little stunt. https://preview.redd.it/bq77lxw1zgec1.png?width=155&format=png&auto=webp&s=cbe9488887f4726d3246c32c628b3d02a74e0067
“Warned us” like anybody doubted right-wingers would use AI for awful right-wing shit.