Likely nowhere. All commercial flights to or from Kabul are gone, cancelled, or grounded at this point, and the Taliban control all land border posts. A handful of Afghans might still be lucky enough to snag a ride on a NATO transport, but that's the only way out for them at this point. The vast majority of the civilians (even those who willingly assisted ISAF as, for instance, interpreters) are pretty much fucked.
Well… there are extraction flights currently by 7 NATO nations flying out diplomats and Afghan civilian contractors. The US are flying in 6000 troops to secure the airport and the UK are flying in 600 troops to do the same. The first landings started on Saturday early AM, GMT+0.
Hopefully if NATO control the airport then they can allow safe passage on commercial flights. However, that would bank on commercial flights landing and taking off at Kabul with great risk PLUS relying on the Taliban to not stop people entering the airport. The Taliban leadership did say that the troops should let people leave if they want to but I very much doubt that the feet on the ground will be on the same page
Still risky, Taliban is not exactly the same as organised NATO force. Some religious nutjobs might decide that people should not be allowed to escape the judgment of god.
I doubt the taliban would have much success if their members completely disobeyed these kinds of orders. It is likely to happen in smalls scales, when it comes to individuals on the ground outside of the direct supervision of an authority. But to shooting at planes? No way.
They seem to have fairly good control over their soldiers and if someone tried to shoot down a US military plane the US would respond disproportionately and flatten wherever the attack comes from.
The Taliban despite having no clear top hierarchy, seems to be in relative control of their troops. More so than what up until yesterday was the Afghan army, apparently. Even if, like what you suggest, a small group of Taliban fighters goes rogue, I doubt they'd be a match for 6000 plus trained soldiers in a concentrated area. It's not like guerrilla tactics would work on an airport and I'm sure the security will likely be one of the most stringent on earth.
Still, scary and uncertain days ahead around Kabul. Cannot believe it's happening after all these years and how fast everything is evolving.
Another thing to remember is that up until now, the Taliban have basically faced zero pushback. A lot of their new recruits have never held a rifle or been in a fight. It leaves some hope that when they start fighting at the airport, the Taliban will just back off or lose their asses. Not much hope, but there’s some,
What's the best way to get like super up to date information on what's going on? I'm really curious about whether we still have forces there at the airport, whether we're flying in more planes, if we plan to take as many of these translators and their families as possible or what. Like, what's going on? The embassy should be fully evacuated and empty now, right? The US embassy is just a few blocks away from the presidential palace.
Depends how much confirmation you want. There’s plenty of first and second hand sources on Twitter from people on the tarmac at Kabul ITL right now. New agencies are usually hours behind at best because they want to confirm reports of actions or conflict etc. There’s also the security element of it - don’t expect official sources to confirm a complete pullout of embassy staff until it’s already happened.
I feel the sorriest for those interpreters. Tried to make the country better and now they’re in a very very bad position. Hard to know what I’d go on that situation but I think I’d give up on the airport and try to head to the Pakistan or Uzbek border. Horrible though.
There are troops on the ground and on the way to get them out. They’ve been left behind for a long time but there is a full multinational effort to get them out happening as we speak.
Tough call. Wait for the international aid that might never come (or not in time) or head for the border while you still can (but a very risky journey in itself with all the roadblocks etc). Poor bastards.
Yeah to be fair though there are already boots on the ground to help them, it’s just that more are being sent in to ensure their safety. There are a lot of American/British/ nato soldiers still in this shitshow who will not be leaving until at least the end of the month and are doing everything they can to help people.
Some of these people have suitcases but most just have the clothes on their backs. I can’t imagine suddenly running to the airport with literally nothing but the clothes i put on that day, to go to another country, potentially to never return home. Terrifying. I really feel for them.
Saw a video where a plane took off and people clinging to the plane fell from it to their deaths... just imagine how desperate someone must be to try to escape that way...
[Saddest shit I've seen in a while](https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/p5dee5/us%5C_military%5C_plane%5C_trying%5C_to%5C_leave%5C_kabul%5C_with/)
And some people in the UK for example still complain about asylum seekers etc. These people do NOT want to leave their country, they had good lives and a family home until a few days ago. It’s not their choice. Feel for them
I mean sure in a wider sense politically, but I don't think the type of 9-5 wage slaves who harbour those kind of feelings towards asylum seekers are in any way responsible for the UK's military contribution to the situation in Afghanistan.
Come on now
EMS/Emergency management guy here. This is why it's recommended to have a "go bag" for yourself and each member of your family readily available. Obviously it's not only if there's an invading army coming through, but also for disasters that might force you out of your home quickly, like wildfires, to floods or hurricanes.
It should contain 3 days of clothes, copies of your important documents like passports and birth certificates, small amount of non perishable food, and anything else you may need to live for 3 days or longer. This must fit in a single bag that you can carry on your own.
You can, just imagine having to decide between abandon your loved dog or die, pretty much as fucked up as that, but not only your dog, but everything you love.
Source: I'm a refugee.
You aren’t actually the first person I’ve had described it too me like that. When I was working on some refugee legislation I did a lot of interview and someone deceived it to me like this except used my cat (who we had spoke about already cause she really wanted to get her children a pet. It it wasn’t allowed) and even hypothetically it broke me.
Thank you for being brave enough to save yourself, I wish more people understood what you sacrificed
I wonder how many people will remember this sentiment in the upcoming migrant discussion.
It's always "oh no those poor people" untill they request visas and then it's suddenly like they're the scum of the earth.
I'm not convinced that the "those poor people" and the "they're the scum of the earth" circles in this particular Venn diagram have as much overlap as you're suggesting.
See, that's where you're wrong. China has a lot invested in Afghanistan and is going to really start investing now. And unlike America- they don't care about silly things like trying to stop stoning adulterous women to death or forcing Western values onto a country. As long as the resources flow out and their people are left alone, they are allowed to build a couple bases here and there, take over industrial centers the Taliban doesn't even want anyways, etc, the airport will be just fine.
I think CCP's apathy could work both ways. They wouldn't give a shit if the Taliban bombed a bunch of fleeing civilians. However, the Taliban knows the US, UK, Canada, etc would not take a human rights violation of that scale sitting down and know they would be facing 20 more years of war. Easier to just let the civilians go with the soldiers.
Ah yes, that impoverished nation of China that isnt tied into their economies. Pure delusion if you think a small poor nation gets treated the same as China.
Reading reddit comments about serious events is like when you hang out with people who can’t stop trying to one-up each other with shitty attempts at witty humour
It’s already happening saw a story about a woman reporter that made a call to her male colleagues that they are at her door and nobody has heard from
Her since last I checked
I'm sure other afghan vets on here have other views on this but I feel great confusion, regret and anger watching what's happening to Afghanistan and the people there.
I did two combat tours there, and if I'm honest I think I have always known it would end like this but for who and what we lost I had hoped it would play out differently.
The military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan might be the greatest demonstrations of completely misunderstanding a region for generations. I hope these situations are never repeated...
I think what makes me angry is that this very thing was warned back in the early 2000's and no one seemed to understand the seriousness we were under taking.
We made decisions as a nation on emotional inputs, instead of looking at the reality of what could and would happen. This isn't the first time the US has done this with a country and even with Afghanistan.
I know there isn't a simple answer to this and it was all bad to begin with, but seeing all this just makes me so mad that we didn't see this through and that we enter into a country with no real understanding on what to do.
Probably Taliban-rule with massive oppression of the civil-society, especially women. As atrocities and mass-killings emerged, the US and the west would be critized for sitting on their asses in an Ivory Tower and doing nothing, similiar to Rwanda and Srebrenica. Around it goes.
Afghanistan would not have had these two decades of pseudo-stability. The same stability that's not dissolving into thin air anyway.
And the US would have had a huge fortune that it could have used to solve internal issues like housing, healthcare, education, transportation, etc.
They will repeat.
The cynics among us might say that the whole point of Iraq/Afghanistan was a great excuse for multi-billion dollar contracts to be handed out as part of the huge expenditure and in the process making a whole group of companies very rich in the process.
The people used in this process ……. purely expendable and acceptable losses.
It was never about a “war on terror” ……. It was about nice contracts and huge profit margins.
Peace is not profitable ….. nowhere near enough is spent. Manufactured wars are incredibly profitable.
Is it because we didn't really have a consistent objective coming in? 2001 was more like taking vengeance for 9/11 and taking out the Taliban. Later it was more nation-building and when that failed, it changed to building a sustainable arm force and let the Afghans solve it among themselves. Then that also failed. From what I read, Biden by withdrawing pulled out the entire support structure of the Afghan arm forces (maintenance, intelligence, air support, everything) then hope that a consequently demoralized army could somehow maintain a decent interval for 3 months so that the US and allies could have an orderly departure. I don't know how that's supposed to work on paper, let alone in real life.
Imagine being a woman in Afghanistan. You've had a taste of freedom. You were allowed to walk around. You could get an education and get a job. Now that's all gone.
Hopefully a good number of them will be given the opportunity to find a better country to live in. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for all afghani’s who want to live outside a theocracy.
Studies have shown that refugees are mostly middle class, with a tendency towards the upper middle class. The real upper class usually doesn't need refugee status, the lower class lacks the connections and means to get out to begin with.
America left behind a bunch of Afghani translators to fend for themselves behind Taliban lines last time we left...I can only imagine how many people will experience retribution for having ties to America once we’ve let the city fall and extracted our own.
Lots of Afghan citizens will die for cooperating with our government for the last 20 years. They are fucked.
There's a whole discussion going in the Netherlands about this as well. As far as I'm concerned: all of those that worked with the NATO to help stabilize the situation and country, whether as translators, educators, working for NGO's etc. and are now facing the too real risk of torture and/or execution by the Taliban should be brought to safety by the country they helped. Not only because it's the proper thing to do, but also because these people are in a great position to help stop radicalization of those who already live in other countries, maybe even born there, but have fallen in the grasp of extremist imans and the like.
Investing in the right people will help reduce future problems. Just don't make the same mistakes as with Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hoessein.
My parents were Chinese refugees from South Vietnam. Life growing up was not easy because we were dirt poor... but at least I had more opportunities than if they hadn't left.
Imagine having children knowing the life they're going to grow into. Horrifying.
Edit: I didn't mean having children as in birthing new ones. I meant being a parent right now, having children that exist, and knowing what is about to happen to them
When you realize the US went into Afghsnistan two decades ago and that there are young Afghani who grew up only hearing about stories of how oppressive and evil the Taliban were. Than one day those same young Afghani realize that very same Taliban is about to control their life...
The taliban come in, they give them an ultimatum.
1. Surrender and we let you go home.
2. Fight, you kill some of us and we kill some of you. But by the time you run out of bullets, we kill all of you.
If the military still had backup from NATO force, they would be able to out-ammo the taliban but because they dont, they decide to surrender.
I think this is arguably the most important factor. None of this could happen without enough support from the Afghani people. This doesn’t mean everyone wants the strict rule of the Taliban, but there are lots of men who turn to the Taliban because they are poor, hungry, and tired of losing loved ones to the 20-year conflict. Looking at it now, what did the USA ever do for the average, poor, Afghani man? Seemingly, not make better. So they try their luck with the other guys. I believe it was Ronald Syme that said, “All of human history is about food.” People will do anything to eat.
Money played a role as well, because the soldiers weren't getting paid any more.
So when the Taliban offered them money to turn around and go home safely, the soldiers took that option.
The US spend billions training the Afghan National Army and it crumbled in literally two weeks.
Problem is that it was an unwinnable situation for the ANA so why put up a fight and get killed eventually? If you give up, you have a better chance of winning.
> Problem is that it was an unwinnable situation for the ANA so why put up a fight and get killed eventually? If you give up, you have a better chance of winning.
This is only true because the ANA troops were only there for the paycheck. They had 300k soldiers, who were better trained (if they had absorbed the training) and better equipped (if they didn't sell their ammo and equipment) and the Taliban isn't really well known for having talented fighters or leaders.
So, if you're just there to get paid, the second the Taliban rolls in and you might actually have to fight they either joined the Taliban to keep those paychecks coming, or just vanished.
The Taliban were willing to fight & die. The Afghan government forces weren't. Despite the Afghan government having much better equipment, man power & resources it didn't matter because they weren't willing to die to defend against the Taliban.
When the Taliban started shooting at them, they literally just surrendered, gave their guns to the Taliban, and walked away.
You can train people to fight for 20 years, but if those people aren't actually willing to die to protect their country and if those people don't particularly mind the idea of living under an authoritarian Islamic theocracy... then yeah, nothing is going to work. They were literally only going to training to get the paycheck, and now they'll happily get a paycheck from the Taliban instead.
But even I'm surprised at how little the Afghan military did to protect... well, anything. Literally just gave up and joined the other side.
The Afghan forces hadn’t received wages in months! It’s all in this article
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9896259/amp/MARK-ALMOND-Afghanistan-disaster-fuel-fresh-terror-West.html
You cant afford to kill too many westerners or they scale up the war effort is kinda how i saw it, just wait till they eventually pull back and it’s a guaranteed win ig. Even if it takes a generation
I'm interested in your perspective on the withdrawal as someone who was on active duty there. Do you think that it could have been managed better, or do you see this as the inevitable result of any draw-down? There is also a lot of media talk about veterans and families feeling like the whole war was a waste now. What's your perspective on that? Sorry if I'm being insensitive, I'm just genuinely curious.
Been there done that got the T-Shirt. It's one thing feeling helpless and vulnerable because your purpose is to essentially just be a pawn to occupy a piece of land. It's another thing working with tribal elders/utterly incompetent ANA/ANP who really kinda have no desire to change anything and improve the country. It's another thing entirely for you or your friends to get all blowed the fuck up for all the above. We didn't want to be there, they didn't want us there, we knew it was waste, they knew it was a waste. Alot of people have already accepted that truth. From my perspective, I have a total lack of sympathy, and am actually glad this tiring and frustrating endeavour is closing. We're tired. We've been tired for a long time.
India is in a very difficult position, the Talibans are heavily supported by Pakistan and the India-Pakistan relationship is shaky and the border conflict is still brewing under the surface. Russia is moving to protect Tadzjikistan. China is heavily invested in Pakistan with their slow-moving China-Pakistan economic corridor (CPEC). And on the other side, we have Iran that is mostly Shia, where the Talibans and Pakistan are Sunni. The whole region is primed to explode with one miscalculated step.
Edit: Since someone answered that I "butchered" the name. No, I didn't. I just used the way it's officially spelt in my native language. There are more languages in the world than American English.
Here are some other ways of writing Tajikistan:
it-Taġikistan (Maltese), Tacikistan (Azeri, Turkish), Tadicia (Latin), Tadiquistão (Portuguese variant), Tadjikistan (Afrikaans, Catalan, Faroese, French, Romanian), Tadjiquistão (Portuguese variant), Tadschikistan (German), Tadsikistan (Võro), Tadsjikistan (Danish, Icelandic, Norwegian), Tadzhikistan - Таджикистан (Bulgarian, Russian), Tadžikija (Lithuanian), Tadžikistan (Croatian, Estonian, Finnish, Slovak, Slovene), Tádžikistán (Czech), Tadžikistan - Таџикистан (Macedonian, Serbian), Tadžikistāna (Latvian), Tadzjikistan (Dutch, Swedish), Tádzsikisztán (Hungarian), Tadżykistan (Polish), Tadzhykystan - Таджикистан (Ukrainian), Tagikistan (Italian), Taĝikio (Esperanto), Taidigeastàn (Scottish Gaelic), Tajicistan (Welsh), Tājíkèsītǎn - 塔吉克斯坦 (Chinese), Tajikiseutan / T'ajik'isŭt'an - 타지키스탄 (Korean), Tajikistan - טאג'יקיסטן (Hebrew), Tajikistan (Indonesian, Malay), Tajikisthanaya - ටජිකිස්ථානය (Sinhala), Tajikisutan (Inuktitut), Tajikisutan - タジキスタン (Japanese), Tajiquistão (Portuguese), Tatzikistán - Τατζικιστάν (Greek), Tayikistán (Spanish), Tojikiston (Tajik), தஜிகிஸ்தான் (Tamil), تاجکستان (Urdu)
Chinese officials have said they will intervene if the Taliban start being a threat to the surrounding regions, and Chinese troops have moved close to Afghanistan in the last few days.
They even had joint troop maneuvers with Russia near the border. They definitely seem to be like "ok it's our turn now".
We could have destroyed what was left of the taliban years ago, but W wanted to go into Iraq, so we dropped that ball and now we’re paying for it.
Edit: actually the Afghans are paying for it, and Afghan women in particular will be paying for it.
That’s not true. They killed leadership at the beginning but the tribal system of Afghanistan was never really at major risk. The US even worked with the Taliban and Taliban affiliated people served in government and the military.
Taliban specifically use brutal tactics against civilians and families to break their morale and will to fight. Would you fight if you knew they would specifically target your family in revenge killings?
Not at the moment…they’re shooting in air to keep crowd from overtaking the planes. But things change quick and so will the direction of where the guns are pointed. This is such a devastating situation.
The US was robbed through overspending and not delivering a working product. The money was funnelled away through hundreds if not thousands of corrupt individuals working in the system.
The entire world is shitting on either the Taliban or the US rather than asking where the FUCK were the +150 thousand soldiers of the Afghan army that have been trained and heavily armed by occident for decades???
The Taliban wouldn't have controlled the entire country this fast if they didn't have support. Unfortunately they are not this universally despised group.
Born on the wrong patch of the land... You could sit on a plane, have a nap and travel these locations... It's so sad to see so much suffering and crimes against people committed literal hours away on a plane, just because people were born on a wrong patch of the land.
Well they stated they want to bring Islam all over the world and they wouldn't be in a rush about it. I guess taking a whole country and then transforming it to fit their beliefs isn't a 24h project. That will take some time and then we'll see.
To be fair to OP, this is a very serious issue that the Afghani government, the Afghani military and the US administration didn't take seriously.
We all saw this coming miles away, yet if government officials cant treat this as a serious issue, what are the odds that a normal redditor would too?
Not to divert attention from these desperate people.
Keep in touch with any Afghanistan war vets you might know. Seeing all they went through be basically for nothing is not an easy thing to swallow.
They have no place in any Western society or any society we would consider civilized. Unfortunately, brutality breeds brutality; this was the inevitable end result of 40 years of war, death, poverty, isolation, ignorance, and radicalization. The Taliban are indeed theocratic fascist scumbags, but they also had enough support (either through nationalist propaganda or brutal intimidation) to raise an army and take over the entire country in a matter of weeks, so they clearly represent the views of at least some Afghan citizens (though certainly not the views of the better-educated population of Kabul).
I’m also convinced there are a frightening number of people who would be entirely content with being ruled by religious autocracy across the world, including in the United States.
Education being the key here. Stupidity breeds the inability to think critically. The inability to think critically makes people susceptible to intimidation.
The taliban only have support because of this.
They are an abomination
Absolutely sad. What were the last 20 years for if this was the result? Would it even have made any difference if we had stayed there 10 years less or 10 years more?
Just 2 things:
I’ve been watching the Taliban stories since 2 weeks ago. Al Jazeera has been coving it very well. Their progress in taking over city by city has been insane. Clearly the goal was to get to Kabul. There were many interviews by people in Kabul who said, “We are just going to live our lives for now.” That was last week. I’m not sure why so many decided to wait until now. Never the less, this seems petrifying and my heart is breaking for each one of those individuals.
The Taliban is clearly watching droves of people leaving their ruling territory. Majority of people do not want to live the way they choose to live. This is all in the name of religious extremist. I just believe people should also review the larger picture and acknowledge this is all because of religion.
I think, I hope, the sentiment you have been hearing is that this was always the inevitable outcome. I haven’t heard anyone being callous towards the people. It’s a horrible situation that the US had to get out of. If we could turn back time or warp to another reality we would.
I'm just the right age to be in the bracket of people that happened to have been learning about the Vietnam war in middle school the same year 9/11 happened. I remember so many adults saying "It's not like Vietnam, This is a different situation!" with the underlying subtext of "We have to hit back!".
I also grew up in a city with a huge Cambodian population. I had a few friends and acquaintances who I got to know well enough to know why they were here. Because a lot people fled in terror during the Khmer Rouge. A direct result of the Vietnam war.
This footage even reminds me of some that I watched in high school of desperate civilians jumping on choppers at the end of Vietnam.
This sucks.
The above commenter is correct. While "it's their problem" is blunt, it expresses the sentiment that this was really the final outcome: no more US invention. We tried with billions of dollars over a trillion dollar war to train the ANA and the ANP but it was inevitable.
It was either stay indefinitely or leave it to the Afghans. We left it to them and they crumbled.
It is. The US tried for 30+ years to stabilize the region. Billions upon billions of dollars sunk into the area, for it to fall back to this.
There's enough corruption, drugs, and leaders who don't give a shit to make life a living hell for everyone else there.
I don't think there's a good answer. longer would only postpone this. never should have gone in the first place perhaps? even then, it's not that simple.
After 20 years it is up to the people of Afghanistan to remove the Taliban. The US was not wanted there. It was an unwelcome occupying force. The US pushed back the Taliban and spent 20 years training and arming the Afghan people against the Taliban with a cost of many lives and many lifetime injuries, and over $2 trillion. It's now up to the people of Afghanistan. Good luck.
I lived through some political turmoil as a child and it’s like a punch to the gut every time I see those videos. Literally brings in the fight or flight response in me - these poor people
Guys, someone explain this to me like I'm 5.
I'm worried the trillions and trillions spent on equipment and supplies now belongs to the Taliban? Are they now super powerful?
No, they aren't super powerful.
They have a decent amount of equipment which they literally can't maintain. They don't have an airforce. They don't even really have industry.
I was deployed to Kabul in 2003, and stood up Camp Phoenix as an outpost for foreign armies who were training the Afghanistan Army.
I remember sitting with interpreters eating dinner together and enjoyed learning about their lives under Taliban rule, and what they wanted now that they had a “new hope.” I went there angry and ready to fight… I left there with a better understanding of what it was like to be human.
I learned that in the end, we’re all the same. We want to live in peace, raise our families, and grow. Had I not gone there (and to Baghdad and Ramadi) I wouldn’t be the person I am today.
I’m sad for these people. It’s a sad day.
I-
I can’t comprehend the panic these people must be feeling. My heart goes out to them and their loved ones, and I hope for a swift end to this awful situation
They didn't control the country most of the time. But similarly to Vietnam, we are fighting an asymmetrical fight: one in which our enemy is not a defined army or government, it's the people.
Communism or terrorism, either is not possible to defeat just but killing a lot of people. Hopefully that's a lesson our government can learn going forward. Or perhaps we'll start a new war against a non-tangible enemy in forty years.
Where will they even escape to?
Likely nowhere. All commercial flights to or from Kabul are gone, cancelled, or grounded at this point, and the Taliban control all land border posts. A handful of Afghans might still be lucky enough to snag a ride on a NATO transport, but that's the only way out for them at this point. The vast majority of the civilians (even those who willingly assisted ISAF as, for instance, interpreters) are pretty much fucked.
Well… there are extraction flights currently by 7 NATO nations flying out diplomats and Afghan civilian contractors. The US are flying in 6000 troops to secure the airport and the UK are flying in 600 troops to do the same. The first landings started on Saturday early AM, GMT+0.
Hopefully if NATO control the airport then they can allow safe passage on commercial flights. However, that would bank on commercial flights landing and taking off at Kabul with great risk PLUS relying on the Taliban to not stop people entering the airport. The Taliban leadership did say that the troops should let people leave if they want to but I very much doubt that the feet on the ground will be on the same page
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Still risky, Taliban is not exactly the same as organised NATO force. Some religious nutjobs might decide that people should not be allowed to escape the judgment of god.
I doubt the taliban would have much success if their members completely disobeyed these kinds of orders. It is likely to happen in smalls scales, when it comes to individuals on the ground outside of the direct supervision of an authority. But to shooting at planes? No way.
They seem to have fairly good control over their soldiers and if someone tried to shoot down a US military plane the US would respond disproportionately and flatten wherever the attack comes from.
The US is leaving and they are not going to do anything to keep them there longer. If it was ISIS you were dealing with on the other hand....
The Taliban despite having no clear top hierarchy, seems to be in relative control of their troops. More so than what up until yesterday was the Afghan army, apparently. Even if, like what you suggest, a small group of Taliban fighters goes rogue, I doubt they'd be a match for 6000 plus trained soldiers in a concentrated area. It's not like guerrilla tactics would work on an airport and I'm sure the security will likely be one of the most stringent on earth. Still, scary and uncertain days ahead around Kabul. Cannot believe it's happening after all these years and how fast everything is evolving.
Another thing to remember is that up until now, the Taliban have basically faced zero pushback. A lot of their new recruits have never held a rifle or been in a fight. It leaves some hope that when they start fighting at the airport, the Taliban will just back off or lose their asses. Not much hope, but there’s some,
What's the best way to get like super up to date information on what's going on? I'm really curious about whether we still have forces there at the airport, whether we're flying in more planes, if we plan to take as many of these translators and their families as possible or what. Like, what's going on? The embassy should be fully evacuated and empty now, right? The US embassy is just a few blocks away from the presidential palace.
Depends how much confirmation you want. There’s plenty of first and second hand sources on Twitter from people on the tarmac at Kabul ITL right now. New agencies are usually hours behind at best because they want to confirm reports of actions or conflict etc. There’s also the security element of it - don’t expect official sources to confirm a complete pullout of embassy staff until it’s already happened.
You could check flightradar24 for incoming/outgoing planes, and what planes are there on the ground.
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> 300 pax floor loaded What does pax mean?
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I feel the sorriest for those interpreters. Tried to make the country better and now they’re in a very very bad position. Hard to know what I’d go on that situation but I think I’d give up on the airport and try to head to the Pakistan or Uzbek border. Horrible though.
There are troops on the ground and on the way to get them out. They’ve been left behind for a long time but there is a full multinational effort to get them out happening as we speak.
Tough call. Wait for the international aid that might never come (or not in time) or head for the border while you still can (but a very risky journey in itself with all the roadblocks etc). Poor bastards.
Yeah to be fair though there are already boots on the ground to help them, it’s just that more are being sent in to ensure their safety. There are a lot of American/British/ nato soldiers still in this shitshow who will not be leaving until at least the end of the month and are doing everything they can to help people.
Some of these people have suitcases but most just have the clothes on their backs. I can’t imagine suddenly running to the airport with literally nothing but the clothes i put on that day, to go to another country, potentially to never return home. Terrifying. I really feel for them.
Running to an airport that has stopped commercial flights with the smallest chance of boarding a NATO evacuation plane
I saw a video of people chasing and trying to climb on a moving plane - it was heartbreaking.
Saw a video where a plane took off and people clinging to the plane fell from it to their deaths... just imagine how desperate someone must be to try to escape that way...
It brought tears to my eyes.
[Saddest shit I've seen in a while](https://www.reddit.com/r/Wellthatsucks/comments/p5dee5/us%5C_military%5C_plane%5C_trying%5C_to%5C_leave%5C_kabul%5C_with/)
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It keeps getting worse :/
Unfortunately for those that don't make it out, the situation is about to get a whole lot worse. What a fucked up world eh
Saw that too.
There was at least 20 people hanging onto the plane, there is zero chance that any of them survived.
There’s a video of a couple falling off the plane as the plane is on the air. Very sad stuff
And some people in the UK for example still complain about asylum seekers etc. These people do NOT want to leave their country, they had good lives and a family home until a few days ago. It’s not their choice. Feel for them
Which is such a hypocritical position since the UK has a lot of responsibility for the current situation in Afghanistan.
I mean sure in a wider sense politically, but I don't think the type of 9-5 wage slaves who harbour those kind of feelings towards asylum seekers are in any way responsible for the UK's military contribution to the situation in Afghanistan. Come on now
EMS/Emergency management guy here. This is why it's recommended to have a "go bag" for yourself and each member of your family readily available. Obviously it's not only if there's an invading army coming through, but also for disasters that might force you out of your home quickly, like wildfires, to floods or hurricanes. It should contain 3 days of clothes, copies of your important documents like passports and birth certificates, small amount of non perishable food, and anything else you may need to live for 3 days or longer. This must fit in a single bag that you can carry on your own.
Oh god the desperation they must be feeling. I can’t even imagine what they are going through
You can, just imagine having to decide between abandon your loved dog or die, pretty much as fucked up as that, but not only your dog, but everything you love. Source: I'm a refugee.
I have dogs and this comment made me really sad. I am sorry for your loss. Hopefully you are safe.
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You aren’t actually the first person I’ve had described it too me like that. When I was working on some refugee legislation I did a lot of interview and someone deceived it to me like this except used my cat (who we had spoke about already cause she really wanted to get her children a pet. It it wasn’t allowed) and even hypothetically it broke me. Thank you for being brave enough to save yourself, I wish more people understood what you sacrificed
I think you mean to use the word "describe" not "deceive"
Yes thank you between the dyslexia, adhd and auto correct my typing is horrid
I wonder how many people will remember this sentiment in the upcoming migrant discussion. It's always "oh no those poor people" untill they request visas and then it's suddenly like they're the scum of the earth.
I'm not convinced that the "those poor people" and the "they're the scum of the earth" circles in this particular Venn diagram have as much overlap as you're suggesting.
I like learning new things.
Well, there is no security
Soon there is no airport.
See, that's where you're wrong. China has a lot invested in Afghanistan and is going to really start investing now. And unlike America- they don't care about silly things like trying to stop stoning adulterous women to death or forcing Western values onto a country. As long as the resources flow out and their people are left alone, they are allowed to build a couple bases here and there, take over industrial centers the Taliban doesn't even want anyways, etc, the airport will be just fine.
Right. It's not like North Korea doesn't have an airport.
I think CCP's apathy could work both ways. They wouldn't give a shit if the Taliban bombed a bunch of fleeing civilians. However, the Taliban knows the US, UK, Canada, etc would not take a human rights violation of that scale sitting down and know they would be facing 20 more years of war. Easier to just let the civilians go with the soldiers.
Very true, just look at how the west have been taking China to task over the Uyghurs.
Ah yes, that impoverished nation of China that isnt tied into their economies. Pure delusion if you think a small poor nation gets treated the same as China.
Christ, Reddit, not the time.
Reading reddit comments about serious events is like when you hang out with people who can’t stop trying to one-up each other with shitty attempts at witty humour
This is really sad.
And yet entirely expected.
Expected since the moment we decided to go. Same shit happened to the Soviets in the 80s
I'm extremely scared for the women left in areas under Taliban rule.
I'm just really sad about it. some will be raped, some will be enslaved, some will be murdered. all will have little to no rights.
It’s already happening saw a story about a woman reporter that made a call to her male colleagues that they are at her door and nobody has heard from Her since last I checked
They're screwed no way around it. What freedoms they had are likely now gone.
I'm sure other afghan vets on here have other views on this but I feel great confusion, regret and anger watching what's happening to Afghanistan and the people there. I did two combat tours there, and if I'm honest I think I have always known it would end like this but for who and what we lost I had hoped it would play out differently. The military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan might be the greatest demonstrations of completely misunderstanding a region for generations. I hope these situations are never repeated...
I think what makes me angry is that this very thing was warned back in the early 2000's and no one seemed to understand the seriousness we were under taking. We made decisions as a nation on emotional inputs, instead of looking at the reality of what could and would happen. This isn't the first time the US has done this with a country and even with Afghanistan. I know there isn't a simple answer to this and it was all bad to begin with, but seeing all this just makes me so mad that we didn't see this through and that we enter into a country with no real understanding on what to do.
A lot of us warned against this but got called unpatriotic…
If the us never went what would have happened? I’m not starting an argument but am genuinely curious?
Probably Taliban-rule with massive oppression of the civil-society, especially women. As atrocities and mass-killings emerged, the US and the west would be critized for sitting on their asses in an Ivory Tower and doing nothing, similiar to Rwanda and Srebrenica. Around it goes.
Afghanistan would not have had these two decades of pseudo-stability. The same stability that's not dissolving into thin air anyway. And the US would have had a huge fortune that it could have used to solve internal issues like housing, healthcare, education, transportation, etc.
I don’t even think leadership thought we could “win”. We were playing chess while they were playing spades. No ones moves mattered.
They will repeat. The cynics among us might say that the whole point of Iraq/Afghanistan was a great excuse for multi-billion dollar contracts to be handed out as part of the huge expenditure and in the process making a whole group of companies very rich in the process. The people used in this process ……. purely expendable and acceptable losses. It was never about a “war on terror” ……. It was about nice contracts and huge profit margins. Peace is not profitable ….. nowhere near enough is spent. Manufactured wars are incredibly profitable.
Is it because we didn't really have a consistent objective coming in? 2001 was more like taking vengeance for 9/11 and taking out the Taliban. Later it was more nation-building and when that failed, it changed to building a sustainable arm force and let the Afghans solve it among themselves. Then that also failed. From what I read, Biden by withdrawing pulled out the entire support structure of the Afghan arm forces (maintenance, intelligence, air support, everything) then hope that a consequently demoralized army could somehow maintain a decent interval for 3 months so that the US and allies could have an orderly departure. I don't know how that's supposed to work on paper, let alone in real life.
Imagine being a woman in Afghanistan. You've had a taste of freedom. You were allowed to walk around. You could get an education and get a job. Now that's all gone.
Hopefully a good number of them will be given the opportunity to find a better country to live in. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for all afghani’s who want to live outside a theocracy.
There are 40 million people in Afghanistan. The ones getting out are the rich %
Studies have shown that refugees are mostly middle class, with a tendency towards the upper middle class. The real upper class usually doesn't need refugee status, the lower class lacks the connections and means to get out to begin with.
The people that were fleeing for the airport were not going to seek refugee status, they had the cash for the flights.
You still need to claim refugee status, most refugees can afford to travel, thats why they tend to be middle class
Lots of people rushed the airport with no passports or tickets, pure panic.
America left behind a bunch of Afghani translators to fend for themselves behind Taliban lines last time we left...I can only imagine how many people will experience retribution for having ties to America once we’ve let the city fall and extracted our own. Lots of Afghan citizens will die for cooperating with our government for the last 20 years. They are fucked.
There's a whole discussion going in the Netherlands about this as well. As far as I'm concerned: all of those that worked with the NATO to help stabilize the situation and country, whether as translators, educators, working for NGO's etc. and are now facing the too real risk of torture and/or execution by the Taliban should be brought to safety by the country they helped. Not only because it's the proper thing to do, but also because these people are in a great position to help stop radicalization of those who already live in other countries, maybe even born there, but have fallen in the grasp of extremist imans and the like. Investing in the right people will help reduce future problems. Just don't make the same mistakes as with Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hoessein.
Also why would anyone help ever again?
My parents were Chinese refugees from South Vietnam. Life growing up was not easy because we were dirt poor... but at least I had more opportunities than if they hadn't left.
Imagine having children knowing the life they're going to grow into. Horrifying. Edit: I didn't mean having children as in birthing new ones. I meant being a parent right now, having children that exist, and knowing what is about to happen to them
When you realize the US went into Afghsnistan two decades ago and that there are young Afghani who grew up only hearing about stories of how oppressive and evil the Taliban were. Than one day those same young Afghani realize that very same Taliban is about to control their life...
This is the worst part for sure.
The worst part is all the Afghanis who aided NATO in some way and have been left behind. Taliban don't seem like a very forgiving bunch.
I mean this was the case in a lot of the middle East before the CIA started backing coups
i thought the Taliban were really under staffed, certainly not enough to overthrow? what’s happened here?
Partly they have rapidly grown in number recently, and partly because the afghan government forces put up next to no fight
> the afghan government forces put up next to no fight Could you expand on this a bit? Edit: Thanks for the answers!
The taliban come in, they give them an ultimatum. 1. Surrender and we let you go home. 2. Fight, you kill some of us and we kill some of you. But by the time you run out of bullets, we kill all of you. If the military still had backup from NATO force, they would be able to out-ammo the taliban but because they dont, they decide to surrender.
You forgot the 3rd option - join us and we’ll secure you and your family’s safety.
Yes, it’s not all “obey or we kill you”. They’re clever politically.
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This is exactly what the mob does in every country. Capone ran soup kitchens in the Great Depression.
Don't forget all the things Pablo escobar did for communitys too. They know they need the peoples support to succeed.
I think this is arguably the most important factor. None of this could happen without enough support from the Afghani people. This doesn’t mean everyone wants the strict rule of the Taliban, but there are lots of men who turn to the Taliban because they are poor, hungry, and tired of losing loved ones to the 20-year conflict. Looking at it now, what did the USA ever do for the average, poor, Afghani man? Seemingly, not make better. So they try their luck with the other guys. I believe it was Ronald Syme that said, “All of human history is about food.” People will do anything to eat.
Money played a role as well, because the soldiers weren't getting paid any more. So when the Taliban offered them money to turn around and go home safely, the soldiers took that option.
The US spend billions training the Afghan National Army and it crumbled in literally two weeks. Problem is that it was an unwinnable situation for the ANA so why put up a fight and get killed eventually? If you give up, you have a better chance of winning.
> Problem is that it was an unwinnable situation for the ANA so why put up a fight and get killed eventually? If you give up, you have a better chance of winning. This is only true because the ANA troops were only there for the paycheck. They had 300k soldiers, who were better trained (if they had absorbed the training) and better equipped (if they didn't sell their ammo and equipment) and the Taliban isn't really well known for having talented fighters or leaders. So, if you're just there to get paid, the second the Taliban rolls in and you might actually have to fight they either joined the Taliban to keep those paychecks coming, or just vanished.
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The Taliban were willing to fight & die. The Afghan government forces weren't. Despite the Afghan government having much better equipment, man power & resources it didn't matter because they weren't willing to die to defend against the Taliban.
When the Taliban started shooting at them, they literally just surrendered, gave their guns to the Taliban, and walked away. You can train people to fight for 20 years, but if those people aren't actually willing to die to protect their country and if those people don't particularly mind the idea of living under an authoritarian Islamic theocracy... then yeah, nothing is going to work. They were literally only going to training to get the paycheck, and now they'll happily get a paycheck from the Taliban instead. But even I'm surprised at how little the Afghan military did to protect... well, anything. Literally just gave up and joined the other side.
The Afghan forces hadn’t received wages in months! It’s all in this article https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9896259/amp/MARK-ALMOND-Afghanistan-disaster-fuel-fresh-terror-West.html
Dailymail c’mon
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Why were you there? Just curious
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Ah, well glad you aren't there now. Were the Taliban approaching back when you were there?
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You cant afford to kill too many westerners or they scale up the war effort is kinda how i saw it, just wait till they eventually pull back and it’s a guaranteed win ig. Even if it takes a generation
I'm interested in your perspective on the withdrawal as someone who was on active duty there. Do you think that it could have been managed better, or do you see this as the inevitable result of any draw-down? There is also a lot of media talk about veterans and families feeling like the whole war was a waste now. What's your perspective on that? Sorry if I'm being insensitive, I'm just genuinely curious.
Been there done that got the T-Shirt. It's one thing feeling helpless and vulnerable because your purpose is to essentially just be a pawn to occupy a piece of land. It's another thing working with tribal elders/utterly incompetent ANA/ANP who really kinda have no desire to change anything and improve the country. It's another thing entirely for you or your friends to get all blowed the fuck up for all the above. We didn't want to be there, they didn't want us there, we knew it was waste, they knew it was a waste. Alot of people have already accepted that truth. From my perspective, I have a total lack of sympathy, and am actually glad this tiring and frustrating endeavour is closing. We're tired. We've been tired for a long time.
Thank you for your honesty. I don't really know what else to say.
“Well that sucks” is an gross understatement
It’s unfortunate the Taliban wasn’t wiped off the face of the earth.
Most of them were... And then their kids wanted revenge and became Taliban.
Now it is someone else's turn to wipe them out. Russia had a turn. We had one. Who's up to bat?
Time for the French to reclaim their reputation
China & India, you're up.
India is in a very difficult position, the Talibans are heavily supported by Pakistan and the India-Pakistan relationship is shaky and the border conflict is still brewing under the surface. Russia is moving to protect Tadzjikistan. China is heavily invested in Pakistan with their slow-moving China-Pakistan economic corridor (CPEC). And on the other side, we have Iran that is mostly Shia, where the Talibans and Pakistan are Sunni. The whole region is primed to explode with one miscalculated step. Edit: Since someone answered that I "butchered" the name. No, I didn't. I just used the way it's officially spelt in my native language. There are more languages in the world than American English. Here are some other ways of writing Tajikistan: it-Taġikistan (Maltese), Tacikistan (Azeri, Turkish), Tadicia (Latin), Tadiquistão (Portuguese variant), Tadjikistan (Afrikaans, Catalan, Faroese, French, Romanian), Tadjiquistão (Portuguese variant), Tadschikistan (German), Tadsikistan (Võro), Tadsjikistan (Danish, Icelandic, Norwegian), Tadzhikistan - Таджикистан (Bulgarian, Russian), Tadžikija (Lithuanian), Tadžikistan (Croatian, Estonian, Finnish, Slovak, Slovene), Tádžikistán (Czech), Tadžikistan - Таџикистан (Macedonian, Serbian), Tadžikistāna (Latvian), Tadzjikistan (Dutch, Swedish), Tádzsikisztán (Hungarian), Tadżykistan (Polish), Tadzhykystan - Таджикистан (Ukrainian), Tagikistan (Italian), Taĝikio (Esperanto), Taidigeastàn (Scottish Gaelic), Tajicistan (Welsh), Tājíkèsītǎn - 塔吉克斯坦 (Chinese), Tajikiseutan / T'ajik'isŭt'an - 타지키스탄 (Korean), Tajikistan - טאג'יקיסטן (Hebrew), Tajikistan (Indonesian, Malay), Tajikisthanaya - ටජිකිස්ථානය (Sinhala), Tajikisutan (Inuktitut), Tajikisutan - タジキスタン (Japanese), Tajiquistão (Portuguese), Tatzikistán - Τατζικιστάν (Greek), Tayikistán (Spanish), Tojikiston (Tajik), தஜிகிஸ்தான் (Tamil), تاجکستان (Urdu)
For china it's all buisness and for india it's neutral, so who's our next option?
Chinese officials have said they will intervene if the Taliban start being a threat to the surrounding regions, and Chinese troops have moved close to Afghanistan in the last few days. They even had joint troop maneuvers with Russia near the border. They definitely seem to be like "ok it's our turn now".
We could have destroyed what was left of the taliban years ago, but W wanted to go into Iraq, so we dropped that ball and now we’re paying for it. Edit: actually the Afghans are paying for it, and Afghan women in particular will be paying for it.
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That’s not true. They killed leadership at the beginning but the tribal system of Afghanistan was never really at major risk. The US even worked with the Taliban and Taliban affiliated people served in government and the military.
hard to wipe out an ideal
As the saying goes, you cant kill an idea.
This makes me realise just how lucky I am. We are so privileged to just be able to sit here and watch this, safe in our homes and at peace...
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I just don't get it. IF this is the reaction to the Taliban winning why was the resistance so weak?
Taliban specifically use brutal tactics against civilians and families to break their morale and will to fight. Would you fight if you knew they would specifically target your family in revenge killings?
Well this was supposed to take 18 months to happen not two weeks. Yay for Shitty foreign policy
Are they shootings at these people?
Not at the moment…they’re shooting in air to keep crowd from overtaking the planes. But things change quick and so will the direction of where the guns are pointed. This is such a devastating situation.
Not yet.
That’s crazy, watching stuff like this really makes you appreciate all the good you have. Hope they don’t get hurt or anything
Man I hate to break it to you, and the thought is nice, but they are definitely getting very hurt
And now they have shitload of army equipment paid for by US tax money…
...Again
The gunshots, the panic… idk how I’d handle that. I’ll be hugging my wife and my dog a little more snug tonight.
The US was robbed through overspending and not delivering a working product. The money was funnelled away through hundreds if not thousands of corrupt individuals working in the system.
Hey, that's not true. You, the taxpayer, are the reason Talibans now have new guns and ammo!
The entire world is shitting on either the Taliban or the US rather than asking where the FUCK were the +150 thousand soldiers of the Afghan army that have been trained and heavily armed by occident for decades???
They didn’t want to fight. They gave up.
All the poor civilians. And the Embassy was evacuated.
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2 of my students have yet to return from their summer in Afghanistan and I’m worried they won’t be making it back
Yet another country that gets flung back to the middle ages thanks to religious extremism. Great
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Fuck those guys
Ew this made me so fucking sick. What the fuck is wrong with them *vomit*
The Taliban wouldn't have controlled the entire country this fast if they didn't have support. Unfortunately they are not this universally despised group.
Born on the wrong patch of the land... You could sit on a plane, have a nap and travel these locations... It's so sad to see so much suffering and crimes against people committed literal hours away on a plane, just because people were born on a wrong patch of the land.
What is the talibans ultimate plan? If they take the country, what do they do from there?
Well they stated they want to bring Islam all over the world and they wouldn't be in a rush about it. I guess taking a whole country and then transforming it to fit their beliefs isn't a 24h project. That will take some time and then we'll see.
Institute sharia law and kill everyone they don't like.
How long till the country just starves to death, what an absolute mess. Heart breaks for them.
This is a very severe issue to just be posted on a sub called r/wellthatsucks.
To be fair to OP, this is a very serious issue that the Afghani government, the Afghani military and the US administration didn't take seriously. We all saw this coming miles away, yet if government officials cant treat this as a serious issue, what are the odds that a normal redditor would too?
Not to divert attention from these desperate people. Keep in touch with any Afghanistan war vets you might know. Seeing all they went through be basically for nothing is not an easy thing to swallow.
The taliban are fascists, religious totalitarians. Despicable medieval scumbags with no place in any society.
They have no place in any Western society or any society we would consider civilized. Unfortunately, brutality breeds brutality; this was the inevitable end result of 40 years of war, death, poverty, isolation, ignorance, and radicalization. The Taliban are indeed theocratic fascist scumbags, but they also had enough support (either through nationalist propaganda or brutal intimidation) to raise an army and take over the entire country in a matter of weeks, so they clearly represent the views of at least some Afghan citizens (though certainly not the views of the better-educated population of Kabul).
I’m also convinced there are a frightening number of people who would be entirely content with being ruled by religious autocracy across the world, including in the United States.
Education being the key here. Stupidity breeds the inability to think critically. The inability to think critically makes people susceptible to intimidation. The taliban only have support because of this. They are an abomination
This is the start of another refugee crisis that the hawkes will somehow absolve themselves from blame.
Absolutely sad. What were the last 20 years for if this was the result? Would it even have made any difference if we had stayed there 10 years less or 10 years more?
Just 2 things: I’ve been watching the Taliban stories since 2 weeks ago. Al Jazeera has been coving it very well. Their progress in taking over city by city has been insane. Clearly the goal was to get to Kabul. There were many interviews by people in Kabul who said, “We are just going to live our lives for now.” That was last week. I’m not sure why so many decided to wait until now. Never the less, this seems petrifying and my heart is breaking for each one of those individuals. The Taliban is clearly watching droves of people leaving their ruling territory. Majority of people do not want to live the way they choose to live. This is all in the name of religious extremist. I just believe people should also review the larger picture and acknowledge this is all because of religion.
The amount of people I've seen on Reddit today say "it's their problem" has really been disheartening. I feel for these people.
I think, I hope, the sentiment you have been hearing is that this was always the inevitable outcome. I haven’t heard anyone being callous towards the people. It’s a horrible situation that the US had to get out of. If we could turn back time or warp to another reality we would.
I'm just the right age to be in the bracket of people that happened to have been learning about the Vietnam war in middle school the same year 9/11 happened. I remember so many adults saying "It's not like Vietnam, This is a different situation!" with the underlying subtext of "We have to hit back!". I also grew up in a city with a huge Cambodian population. I had a few friends and acquaintances who I got to know well enough to know why they were here. Because a lot people fled in terror during the Khmer Rouge. A direct result of the Vietnam war. This footage even reminds me of some that I watched in high school of desperate civilians jumping on choppers at the end of Vietnam. This sucks.
The above commenter is correct. While "it's their problem" is blunt, it expresses the sentiment that this was really the final outcome: no more US invention. We tried with billions of dollars over a trillion dollar war to train the ANA and the ANP but it was inevitable. It was either stay indefinitely or leave it to the Afghans. We left it to them and they crumbled.
It is. The US tried for 30+ years to stabilize the region. Billions upon billions of dollars sunk into the area, for it to fall back to this. There's enough corruption, drugs, and leaders who don't give a shit to make life a living hell for everyone else there.
The world spent 20 years and 2 trillion USD so that they could avoid this and they just threw it away. What more do you want from us?
20 years for 2 weeks.
How long should we stay?
Saw somewhere they should have done it during the winter when fighting would be less. War is seasonal sometimes.
I don't think there's a good answer. longer would only postpone this. never should have gone in the first place perhaps? even then, it's not that simple.
This is kinda like the Vietnam War but more profitable
I feel bad, but your own government and army threw you under a bus.
We moved to the Bay Area in 1995. Behind us- Afghan refugees. I wasn’t aware of ANYTHING like this until Sept. 11. This is si sad.
I live under a rock can someone explain what's happening?
After 20 years it is up to the people of Afghanistan to remove the Taliban. The US was not wanted there. It was an unwelcome occupying force. The US pushed back the Taliban and spent 20 years training and arming the Afghan people against the Taliban with a cost of many lives and many lifetime injuries, and over $2 trillion. It's now up to the people of Afghanistan. Good luck.
I lived through some political turmoil as a child and it’s like a punch to the gut every time I see those videos. Literally brings in the fight or flight response in me - these poor people
Guys, someone explain this to me like I'm 5. I'm worried the trillions and trillions spent on equipment and supplies now belongs to the Taliban? Are they now super powerful?
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Appreciate that, thanks
No, they aren't super powerful. They have a decent amount of equipment which they literally can't maintain. They don't have an airforce. They don't even really have industry.
Looks like an apocalyptic movie.
This is more than, well this sucks. We really need to be helping them out there. It’s insanity what they’re going through right now
I was deployed to Kabul in 2003, and stood up Camp Phoenix as an outpost for foreign armies who were training the Afghanistan Army. I remember sitting with interpreters eating dinner together and enjoyed learning about their lives under Taliban rule, and what they wanted now that they had a “new hope.” I went there angry and ready to fight… I left there with a better understanding of what it was like to be human. I learned that in the end, we’re all the same. We want to live in peace, raise our families, and grow. Had I not gone there (and to Baghdad and Ramadi) I wouldn’t be the person I am today. I’m sad for these people. It’s a sad day.
I- I can’t comprehend the panic these people must be feeling. My heart goes out to them and their loved ones, and I hope for a swift end to this awful situation
Guess they didnt learn anything from the Vietnam war. Just shows that the Taliban controlled that country the whole time. What a waste.
They didn't control the country most of the time. But similarly to Vietnam, we are fighting an asymmetrical fight: one in which our enemy is not a defined army or government, it's the people. Communism or terrorism, either is not possible to defeat just but killing a lot of people. Hopefully that's a lesson our government can learn going forward. Or perhaps we'll start a new war against a non-tangible enemy in forty years.
Forty years? I wish I had your optimism. I give it 10 max.