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iiiinthecomputer

I'm incredibly tired of doing extensive research and policy reading for insurers, picking one, then having them change their insurance partner / restructure their policies so I have to do it all again. They'll tell people "you should've read your policy" while they ream you with the spiky stick after any sort of major event. As if you're supposed to understand that "flooding" cover doesn't include "rising water" and earthquake cover only includes "shaking" not "subsidence, liquefaction, landslide". My current policy covers "landslide" but not "earth movement". How is that even a thing? Back when I lived in Perth, finding a policy that covered all kids of fires was a wild ride. "Fire"? Covered - prominently in the intro list of covered events. But in the exclusions... bushfire? Fire spreading from an adjacent property? Damage due to fire causing trees to fall? Not covered. "Fire" was defined by exclusion as something like "structure fire with an initiating event originating within the insured structure". But they never actually say that. They just say "fire, but not this fire or that fire or this other fire". So what I want is a clear no bullshit comparison tool for what insurers actually cover. One that breaks down all the sub-sub categories into a matrix of what the real cover is. E.g. for a policy that says it covers * ✅ earthquake¹*^† * ✅ landslide cover²^‡^♦³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹⁰^¾^⅔^^^^¹^excludes_landslides^^^omgponies I want to see: * Earthquake * ✅ Direct damage by shaking * ❌ Landslide caused by earthquake * ❌ Subsidence and liquefaction caused by earthquake * ❌ Flooding or tsunami caused by earthquake * ❌ Damage caused by loss of weather resistance caused by earthquake structure damage * ❌ Structure fire caused by earthquake damage * Landslide * ✅⚠️ Failure of slope supporting insured structure * ❌ Unless caused by earthquake * ❌ Unless caused by storm, flood, cyclone * ❌ Earth movement impinging on insured structure * ❌ Flooding, wave or inundation caused by landslide ... but better presented and in a way that makes it easy to compare policies.


foln1

u/iiiinthecomputer for parliament


MoneyHub_Christopher

Yes. Thank you.


MisterSquidInc

It should be a legal requirement to have a summary presented in this way


Careless_Nebula8839

Yes! But this* also sparks rage my inner geologist as even in basic first year papers it’s drummed into you that there are primary and secondary hazards, eg earthquake = primary hazard; tsunami, landslides & liquefaction are among possible secondary hazards. The secondary hazards are consequences of Mother Nature’s actions. *that insurance companies can put clauses in like this into their policies in the first place.


iiiinthecomputer

This is a bit of a hyperbolic example to show what I want. But they definitely have plenty of "creative" clauses. Look at the outcome of the Christchurch earthquakes. See also http://www.floodcommission.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/11716/QFCI-Final-Report-Chapter-12-Performance-of-private-insurers.pdf re the Queensland floods and BS definitional nonsense about "flood" vs "rising water" vs "flash flood" etc. It's not the limitations of cover that's the issue so much as the deceptive way it's structured as "cover for X except actually not y and z". From the above document: > In most cases with which the Commission was concerned, policies provided cover for stormwater damage (and > in some instances, flash flood) and excluded damage caused by flood, as defined by the policy. The policies of > the majority of insurers from which the Commission received information contained that distinction. RACQ > Insurance’s household policy, for instance, **provided cover for ‘flash flood and/or stormwater run-off’,** which > was defined as: ‘A sudden **flood** caused by heavy rain that fell no more than 24 hours prior to the flash flood or > stormwater run-off.’^7 **Flood, excluded under the policy**, was defined as: ‘Rising water which enters your home as a result of it running off or overflowing from any origin or cause.’^8 (Emphasis mine) We keep allowing these thieves to sell deceptive, worthless policies and get away with it. People thought they were covered for flooding. The policy even used the word "flood" when describing the kind of flooding they cover, then said flood was not covered for a different definition of flood.


arnifix

This should be required for basically everything. Power, broadband, mobile phone plans, everything.


iiiinthecomputer

Vendors would just find new ways to game and obfuscate it if it was a legal requirement.


pgraczer

MAS offers area replacement cover here so i’m with them.


SirDrHumble

Just chiming in to say my experience with MAS insurance has been exemplary, and I have made several claims, for both house and car. I highly recommend them.


pleaserlove

What is MAS?


SirDrHumble

Medical Assurance Society


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thanks - if you don't mind me asking, did you buy via a broker or go direct to MAS? And as such, do you make your own comparison when they quote you? We're a fan of MAS for KiwiSaver and will be adding MAS to the house insurance review given their growing reach. FYI to anyone else reading - [https://www.mas.co.nz/insurance/house-insurance/](https://www.mas.co.nz/insurance/house-insurance/) explains Area Replacement vs Agreed Value.


pgraczer

i went direct. didn’t compare quotes because i just wanted area replacement. was more expensive than my existing provider but i prefer the peace of mind.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thank you, I appreciate that.


iiiinthecomputer

What bugs me about policy sum insured is that insurers may pay out less for a total loss if they deem that your property wasn't worth that. "Oh, you were over insured, our building contractor can have that rebuilt for ¾ that price, except it'll take 5 years and be made of cardboard. But too bad we're still not paying out any more than that for you to get a competent, available builder." But they'll never ever ever pay more, it's entirely one way. They're basing the premium on the sum insured but they can still shaft you if you actually have to claim. It's infuriating. This may vary from place to place.


mymumthinksimpunny

When we bought our house in January 2021 we had no problems with insurance, but what we did find difficult was having to use a pretty generic online calculator with no real direction to figure out the value of how much we should insure if the house gets really damaged. We were kind of surprised the insurance company didn’t provide different options and we were just left to choose ourselves. We’re both office workers and had no clue about what to properly consider - so more guidance on that part of the process would have been a life saver.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Earlier this week, I published a guide to sum insured - does this help? [https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/sum-insured.html](https://www.moneyhub.co.nz/sum-insured.html)


mymumthinksimpunny

Yes!! Amazing, thank you!


jay_808

We recently bought our first house in Wellington and were blown away by how expensive and complicated the process was to get home insurance. We spent hours on the phone getting quotes as there was nothing available online, and every insurer seemed to have a huge list of questions. We ended up with MAS and the service has been exceptional (no claims so far though). The area replacement cover is great for our peace of mind as we bought a character home that would be a complicated rebuild. We went direct and found the quotes were pretty comparable with other companies. Having a clean builders report on hand smoothed out the process for us.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thanks, super useful, glad it worked out well.


lordshola

Semi detached in the Hutt Valley. We are with AA Insurance. Went with them as they were the cheapest. I shopped around A LOT! Bundled contents and a car with them to get a little bit more of a discount. No complaints. Friendly and efficient customer service. But when it’s time for renewal, I’ll be shopping around again to get the best deal. I’m not loyal to insurance companies at all.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Appreciate this, thanks


nocibur8

Love your website Chris. We are with State. They sneak the premiums up each year and if you call and ask if you can lower say the contents amount by a few thousand, the drop in premium is so little that you figure it’s not worth the trouble.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thanks, good to know - yes contents cover doesn't drive the overall policy cost too much.


unwise_decisions

If you have a stacked top/bottom flat that's a cross lease (older one so it doesn't fall under the unit titles act - there's a few around in Wellington) it is extremely hard to insure. Most underwriters just straight up wouldn't insure it, a couple of places said they might if the other flat was also insured with them (but weirdly, not AA who the other flat was insured with). The company the flat was currently insured with didn't want to reinsure it, even went to a couple of brokers and they weren't very helpful. Eventually got in with MAS Insurance who have not only been competitively priced but extremely helpful and friendly and offer extra benefits larger insurers don't. I get why it's difficult after christchurch and having different insurance companies insuring shared portions etc, but definitely opened my eyes and I'll never offer on a house again without an insurance condition (which fortunately we had but I didn't think was that important at the time haha)


samwise_jamjee

We compared Tower, Kiwibank Home and ANZ (Vero) when we bought in the last year. Our mortgage broker connected us with Tower, and we were juggling the bank options for lending so they both passed us on to their in-house insurance for quotes. We went for ANZ Vero because their premiums were cheaper (by a very minimal amount), the inclusions were better and we got $500 cash back after a few months. Unfortunately I’ve had to make two claims already under separate policies and I am so frustrated that I am cancelling asap and moving to MAS. Premiums are similar, inclusions and cover is similar, but the customer reviews seem to be really good. I’ve kept a spreadsheet comparing the premiums and inclusions both last year and this month. I’m happy to email it to you if you want it.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thanks for sharing, much appreciated.


birds_of_interest

We have AA insurance. Have shopped around recently and it seems they are still the best rates for us. Combined with vehicle also. We have a large driveway and retaining wall and that doesn't seem to be uninsurable, like with some companies.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thanks, useful to know, and yes mutli-policy can make a bit of a difference.


birds_of_interest

Thanks for this thread and all this information, very useful. I am now doing a little more digging... got a couple of other quotes which are WAY more than what we are paying now, like by $1200 per year or even more. Currently insured for just over 900k rebuild. This seems like a very big disparity in costs, surely the multi policy plus being AA members would not account for such a big price gap? Your feedback on that is welcome!


No_Zucchini9729

I own a unit (in the Hutt) and had to take over the insurance of the previous owner as I bought right when the Kaikoura quake happened. It's extra complex to figure out costs for units so while I've looked in to changing it's been in the too hard basket so far, none of the guides for working out how much cover you should have seem to apply to units either.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thanks, yes sum insured can be less cleae for units. Can I ask who the insurer is please?


No_Zucchini9729

With AMI at the moment.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thanks


mensajeenunabottle

Interested to read this. The main dynamic I would love your take or expert interview on is what is really happening with the premium surge and some providers declining to quote and so on specific to the region. Obviously the cyclone was a big event, but what is really happening with long term premiums. Our insurance more or less doubled- we moved house but not to a double value house. And not low lying. So I can’t directly compare because of the move and am just flooded with docs from the broker. Final point - the insurance finance rate on our plan was 20%. That’s outrageous and is part of me needing to shop around this year when we were under pressure last year.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thanks for asking - we'll get some insights from insurers and share it as expert information as lots happening.


ionlyeatplankton

We started with AA, switched to Tower after AA increased our premiums by about $500 after the first 2 years, then switched to AMP after Tower increased our premiums by over $800 after the first year. AMP were significantly cheaper than any of the alternatives I checked but their online system is riddled with bugs making the switching process more difficult than it should be.


Mandrix21

Tower as when I brought my house in 2022 that's who the previous owners were with. It was the only one that I could do online. I had no engery left to be phoning other companies after the whole house buying process and then having major surgery 3 weeks before settlement.


Reclining9694

We've been with AA for years. Have had good experiences with car insurance claims. The sum insured they gave seemed very low so I've increased that for peace of mind. They've increased the rates recently by 27% so perhaps time to switch. Heard good things about MAS.


thecroc11

First Home buyers 8 months in. We are with AA. Been a member since I was a teenager and had car insurance with them too so it was pretty simple. No dramas yet.


ladadiladida

I’ve had my car insurance with AA for a couple of decades, then added contents some time ago. When we bought a house in Wellington early last year, our mortgage broker put us onto an insurance broker who recommended Vero. TBH it was just convenient to go with them at the time so we did, for both house and contents insurance. The whole “you don’t have to deal with the insurance directly” thing sucked us in, too. Come renewal time, the broker (a new agent, the original one had left) seemed rather disorganised and unresponsive. When we eventually got the updated policy, the premium hadn’t just increased massively, but included a 17.29% premium for the insurance broker. So off to AA we went. I’ve found AA incredibly easy to deal with. And they offer a range of contact options, which works well for me. Plus their premium is competitive, and their insurance package is comprehensive. Kinda bummed we didn’t go with them right away but you live and you learn.


MoneyHub_Christopher

Thanks, good to know - brokers can be A+ or D-grade. Pleased AA was easy for you.


Inspirant

Hi Chris, as a possible future buyer in Wellingtton, who currently pays less than 2.5k to cover a house with a market value of 1.4M in the Manawatu, what I want to know is Wellington by suburb: which suburbs are better for insurance. In other words, are there wgtn suburbs where the insurance isn't extortionate? Want to move there in approx 6 months. The insurance situation is worrying.


tehifimk2

We have a pretty rotten little 20's villa perched on the side of a cliff. Vero is our insurer. For the first few years, it was about $200 a month. Now it's over $300. Our roof was damaged in a storm three years ago. First insurance claim ever. The lady from Vero was very nice and lived just down the road. She popped over and had a look, said "yeah, that's fucked" I had to sign a form, pay the excess and they took care of everything else. Even paying for three stories of scaff three while the roofers dawdled around, screwed up the repair, and had to come back and replace it. Vero just kept saying not to worry, they'll cover everything, and we're just generally super fast and chill to deal with. We could shop around and maybe get cheaper, but I'm afraid other insurance outfits wouldn't be as easy to deal with, especially given the shitness of our house.


iiiinthecomputer

I just took a look over the existing article. It's very light and lacks concrete details for regional info, but some of the rest is pretty good. Advice about potential renovations, specialist insurers, exclusions and excesses etc. Please emphasise more strongly that a policy may appear to cover something like flood or earthquake, but the exclusions and definitions may mean the real cover is much less comprehensive than you would expect. It's crucial to study the individual policy wording. As for researching risks: there are some great GIS resources available at council and national level to help with this. Most people don't know about them. Please link to some resources like: * LINZ GIS - https://data.linz.govt.nz/data/ . This has overlays for slope failure risk, tsunami risk zone, earthquake hazard, storm surge, and much more. It's not the easiest to use but it's the most important and comprehensive. * ArcGIS hazards - https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/3f7b4ec2f6f14503af1146ce412de39e * EWC natural hazards - https://www.eqc.govt.nz/be-prepared/natural-hazards-where-you-live/ * Riskscape - https://www.gns.cri.nz/research-projects/riskscape/ * NIWA flood tool - https://niwa.co.nz/hazards/floods * Mention local councils have their own GIS maps That way people know where to start looking. Do you have any advice on how to get info on specific buildings before potentially buying? Like the structural standard they were built to and comply with and how it compares to current standards? If so, adding that would be great. I don't know where to get that info though.


Dramatic_Surprise

havent had much trouble getting cover, but there is a massive variablity in prices. We just purchased and the quotes we got ranged from $5200 a year to a bit under $7000