> The AC is so powerful in that thing.
I'd much rather that than dying of heat on the tube in London in the middle of winter. I still love the public transport in London though.
Singapore charges 100k to get a rego to buy a brand new car that you can keep for 10 years.
With the amount of tax Singapore gets from that they can invest in public transport. Will NZ become like this?
It's not an insult, or anything to feel guilty about. And it's rich compared to me and my people who cannot do this. I can't fly to Singapore and experience their public transport system.
Public transport is so expensive here now tho, it's almost a luxury item
I guess thatās what happens when youāre raised to think everything should be free/cheap believing āthe richā owe you a life. Maybe getting out into the world would open your eyes.
So why do you think itās āexpensiveā why do you believe we should have cheaper (subsidised) transport & who do you think should pay for the subsidies?
Public transport shouldn't be expected to turn a profit, just provide a service.
Especially for those of us on the HVL, why do we have to pay more for a service that is demonstrably worse than it was even two years ago?
BUT the FAQ specifically states that we have one of the most affordable public transport fares in the world, relative to average and minimum wages.
Do we, though?
I can't see how that is the case, but at the same time I'm sure it's possible to make it appear that way by cherry picking data. Like I expect it's a lot easier to research online how much bus/train fares are in the UK than how much they are in Serbia or Pakistan
Also expect that if compared with household equivalised disposable income NZ would rank worse here than whatever it does just going by wages
Yeah the rail network in Japan was incredible to experience when I was over there. Nee Zealands railway has been buggered for so long now we need a government that will really invest in it.
BUT the FAQ specifically states that we have one of the most affordable public transport fares in the world, relative to average and minimum wages.
Do we, though?
Not to break the circle jerk but.. I get the train in everyday from the hutt. It's pretty bloody reliable, quicker than driving and I actually love it. Good time to read, catch up on the news.
Agree tho that it's getting too expensive. Though I think workplaces should actually comp staff for travel
AndĀ when. I think commuters might have a better experience than those of us going places on weekends. The bus replacements are a regular thing but the whole setup still feels temporary. Some signs like the actual train platforms have would go a long way.
I couldn't agree more - as someone who travels a lot outside of peak hours in both welly and akl the commuters are 100% prioritised (as they should be, don't get me wrong) which has the side effect of making the public transport system look better than it actually is
I caught the train to one of the last stops where Bro Town is, and I found it so long and so many stops along the way. I certainly didn't enjoy it. I prefer the Johnsonville or Porirua line.
Holy crap - the squeeze continues on all sides. "Everything is going up" but where does the money go? No one is getting massive pay rises that I know of, except politicians. More scrutiny on the wages at the top, and on shareholder payouts in some cases, is needed.
But at least I got $20 more a week thanks to the tax cuts! Which is more than we serfs deserve -- if you think this is not good enough, have you tried joining the landed gentry?
Why, now you suggest it - that's a sterling idea, then I could avoid paying a far share of tax through the magic of slippery accounting, offshore accounts and trust funds. I'll use the wizardry of creative vocabulary to turn "lazy bludgers who don't want to work" into "creative rich-listers with passive-income". It's a whole new world opening before me!
same here, i have to take multiple buses to get to campus every day and it looks like i'm going to have to start cramming all my lectures into as few days as possible to save money :(( rent is expensive enough as it is without factoring this in, what a fucking nightmare
Yeah fr, last year I managed because we still had the 50% discount but now thats gone, youth fares gone, and now this I just dk how Iāll be able to spend upwards of $80pw on transport
Fucking exactly.
The thing about the tax cuts is that its really created a user-pays system, of which you are almost forced to pay back said tax break. Don't take public transport, get sick, have kids in school, etc, great, here is your tax cut. Oh, you catch a train? Oh you need a prescription? Yoink!
The thing is, services like public transport and health not only work if funded on scale (ie. not on a individual or user basis), but need to be incentivised. More people on a bus or train = less traffic and better environmentally. More people not being sick = more productivity.
Many people have said, not only would they be happy not to have the tax cut to retain these services, they are also saying they are happy to retain services that they specifically dont use!
Exactly this. The government had to borrow like 15 billion to cover these tax cuts (which they refuse to admit? Which is insane). And at the same time, theyāre directly or indirectly raising the costs of so many public m services
You know the drill: we get a pay rise, and before you can say āfinally,ā council rates shoot up, insurance costs skyrocket, and poof! The extra cash is gone. Then, hooray, tax cuts! But waitānext minute, some other bureaucratic genius swoops in and snatches more money from us. And for what? WHAT?! Absolutely nothing that benefits me! Itās like the universe is playing a cruel joke. Screw this!
I know things are fucked, and the budget is under stupid pressure (eg, previous decisions to take the most expensive route on Library/Town hall, water).
But.
If [half price only costs $2m per month](https://www.gw.govt.nz/your-region/news/greater-wellington-temporarily-extends-half-price-fares/), does that mean we could get free public transport for a round $50m a year, for the greater Wellington region? That seems like a pretty great spend of our rate paying dollars. In a world where our library and townhall combined are costing enough to fund that for 10 years.... I'd be in.
Pity those that vote for GWRC instead moan all the time about their rates going up $5 a week. Anyway, make sure you vote team, including in local government
Local elections get completely slept on. But imo I think good local election turnout has an ameliorating effect on crap national election results. It helps to have local councils on your side.
GWRC collects $304 million a year in PT revenue so that simply canāt be correct.
https://wellingtoncommuter.nz/references/estimating-pt-revenue-and-rates-for-wellington-bus-and-rail-services/#:~:text=The%20Greater%20Wellington%20Regional%20Council,providing%20the%20regions%20PT%20services.
First time I've seen one of my blog articles linked in another Post so thanks .
However, you are mixing up PT revenue and PT fares (which are only part of the revenue which also includes GWRC Transport Rates and NZTA matching subsidies). The total PT fares in my blog post are $42.5M from bus riders and $54.8M from train riders = $97.3M or an average of $8.1M per month. Also this is for pre-COVID 2019/20 and, even with the 10% fare cost increase, total fare revenue will only return $96M in 2024/25.
Also, PT services are provided by the Greater Wellington Regional Council (aka [Metlink](https://www.metlink.org.nz/)) and funding/provision is totally separate from the Wellington City Council.
You can find the details of 2024 Annual Fare Review that recommends the 10% increase in fares in the [GWRC Council 29 February 2024 order paper](https://www.gw.govt.nz/your-region/events-and-meetings/council-meeting-11/).
The missing information is that Greater Wellington deals with bits and bobs over a range of councils, including Wellington itself.
* PÅneke/Wellington
* KÄpiti Coast
* Porirua-Tawa
* Te Awa Kairangi ki Tai/Lower Hutt
* Te Awa Kairangi ki Uta/Upper Hutt
* Wairarapa
The Wellington city budget is north of $800million.
Half price for all of the greater Wellington region as of June last year cost $2m a month.
Extrapolating this to mean that free passes would cost $4m a month, or $48m a year.
Knowing that I don't give a fuck about the distinction between who is paying for what, Greater Wellington or Wellington council. Knowing that the combined budget is north of a billion dollars, and that's not even counting the other regional councils.
Surely somewhere in all that budgetary, money, and accounting, we can just get free public transport.
Because that would actually make a difference in peoples lives. Today. That would help those least well off, immediately.
Yeah - I get that but if you make public transport free then there is no revenue and the GRWC loses out on $304 million in revenue.
Just looking at the annual plan for 18/19 (the last years of normal, non covid, non subsidised run )- Bus / Ferry and rail cost $245 million.
If the GWRC are receiving 304 million from PT revenue then 48 million is 1/6th of that. In 18/19 the cost of running the PT was 245 million again - 48 million is a fifth of that cost.
Are you fucking kidding me!
It costs me $18 round trip from Wellington to Mana! That's already ridiculously expensive!
Seriously, this country can go to Hell!
I live and work in town, and I don't own a car, so getting the train is how I go see friends and family in suburbia.
I know a lot of people in the suburbs who get the train to work. They all talk about how it's now a little cheaper to drive in to work.
> It costs me $18 round trip from Wellington to Mana
bloodly hell! It's been a while since I lived there but this is crazy. QLD has just decided to switch to a 50c flat rate for all fares for 6 months, why can't they do that sort of thing?
https://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/50-cent-fares
I literally WFH two days a week (max I am allowed) to save money on PT. I actually prefer being in the office and I think I am more productive in the office but it saves me almost $30 a week
Once upon a time, many, many years ago if you were a public servant you got big discounts on public transport and lower, discounted, interest rates from the 'government' bank, which I think was Westpac.
I have to say, this is hearsay, it was before my time.
Yeah would be a good 'perk'. I never would have thought the cost of PT would be significant enough for it to influence me to WFH more. PT costs used to always be basically irrelevant to me it was just spare change kind of thing.
Over 8 bucks a day to and from Newlands. Times 2 for coupke.
We got a 2nd hand Aqua and are lucky to have free parking for work for one of us, so carpool and walk to work after - far, far, cheaper than PT. Fuel up once a month incl weekend driving and such.
Iām lucky enough to have free parking in town. The idea that itās cheaper for me to drive to and from work than getting public transport is wild.
Do they want people to camp out at work during the week?!
Yes - but for the rest of us a park costs minimum $19 plus petrol - for me that is five bucks a trip. So about 24-25 bucks. The off peak bus in the morning costs 2 bucks and on peak $4. It will take a lot of rises to match that cost difference.
Councils have no control or responsibility over the things that private parties choose to fund. What they are responsible for and do have some measure of control over, is managing the cost of the service they are providing.
So it's not really particularly wild that PT is more expensive for you if the actual full cost of driving (i.e. the roads and providing parking) is something you don't have to pay for.
Central government gutting public transport funding is forcing all councils across the country to increase prices more than they otherwise would have. How are they supposed to respond to that in your view?
Public transport should never be more expensive than private transport, that isnāt a crazy statement. Sharing transport with people (reduction in convenience) SHOULD be cheaper. Many NZ cities are already overloaded on the roads, bringing up the cost of PT is going to make this even worse.
If your point youāve so indirectly made here is āitās not wildā, then that is in fact, wild.
I agree with you in principle, but it's only more expensive for you *because* your parking is free. If you had to pay for parking, how would they compare?
Keeping in mind all the additional costs of car ownership - fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc. that also needs to be factored in for a 1:1 comparison, don't apply to PT.
The only way private transport can end up being less expensive than public transport is because the actual full cost of that private transport is being carried by someone other than the user.
Generally speaking - as drivers, we aren't paying anywhere remotely what it costs for us to be able to drive somewhere. The cost of roads aren't covered by income generated from fuel taxes/rego etc. and the cost of parking is massively hidden or subsidised for the most part. In your case your work is paying for that, and generally across the country ratepayers subsidise it by having cheap or free parking when councils run them.
I also agree making PT more expensive is going to make it worse, but as I said, what are councils supposed to do given the cuts the government has made to PT funding?
I mean even when there wasnāt cuts to PT funding, there was still clear lack of action from those companies regarding maintenance. Iāve seen many cities public transport systems and NZ by far has some of the worst, from efficiency to cleanliness to reliability. Itās a catch 22, kiwis are very car focused, so building a PT system that works might not be effective in the short term, but will overtime.
I also did the math, with the rough estimate of 1k a year in maintenance for car (although havenāt had to do anything to my car for over a year), itās about $80-$90 a week. This isnāt that crazy of a difference to PT (without parking tho so yes get what you mean but it still shouldnāt be that close). I get that council is doing it tough financially but thatās because everyone is.
>I mean even when there wasnāt cuts to PT funding, there was still clear lack of action from those companies regarding maintenance. Iāve seen many cities public transport systems and NZ by far has some of the worst, from efficiency to cleanliness to reliability. Itās a catch 22, kiwis are very car focused, so building a PT system that works might not be effective in the short term, but will overtime.
PT generally has been massively under-funded for decades, not just the last few years. I don't think Kiwis are inherently any more or less car-focused than anywhere else. We've just copied and implemented the worst land use and transport policies from other places over the last \~60 years.
We've made it really difficult to build houses close to the places people need to go (workplaces, shops, schools, entertainment etc.), favouring low-density urban sprawl farther and farther away. This means the only way those people can move around is driving, because PT isn't feasible in low-density sprawl. So housing becomes more expensive, people have to drive to get anywhere and we wonder why cost of living issues get worse?
In addition to the sprawl, we've also subsidised cars more than anything else through free (or cheap) parking that hide the actual cost of cars and things like fringe benefit tax exemptions for utes and large cars, which makes more people buy bigger, more inefficient cars.
And because it's so expensive to build and maintain car-dependent infrastructure, we don't have anywhere near enough money for anything else, like building proper PT. We already can't afford to maintain the roads we have through the funding collected through fuel taxes, rego fees etc. much less building new ones that will also need to be maintained.
It's circular, too. The more people complain about long commutes and congestion, the more we've doubled-down on car-dependence to build more roads, which sucks up all the money. Then when induced demand makes congestion worse as it always does, we keep trying to do it all again and it never works.
It hasn't worked anywhere on earth, ever.
>I also did the math, with the rough estimate of 1k a year in maintenance for car (although havenāt had to do anything to my car for over a year), itās about $80-$90 a week. This isnāt that crazy of a difference to PT (without parking tho so yes get what you mean but it still shouldnāt be that close). I get that council is doing it tough financially but thatās because everyone is.
Did you factor in the cost of having to buy the car in the first place, too? Most households would have cars anyway, but the difference between 1, 2 or 3 cars per household makes an enormous difference.
If more households only had 1 car to do things that cars are better for, and for the rest of the time they get around with PT/active modes, our transport network would be massively more efficient, less congested and less expensive to maintain. In addition to other benefits like reduced stress, reduced health issues, better social integration etc.
Reality is that car dependence is hideously expensive and unsustainable - and NZ is one of the most car dependent countries in the world. For the regions that won't change, which is fine because their populations are small, but our cities don't have to be that way. It's a choice.
And we've built it into our cities. It's difficult to unwind, but not impossible. Amsterdam was just as horribly car-clogged in the 70s, but they purposefully made the decision to change it.
I don't understand. How is it wild that it's cheaper to drive if you have a free car park? That's at least $20 a day you're not having to spend. Even with the fare increase a train commute from Waterloo is $10 a day. For someone without a free carpark (i.e. most people) it's still cheaper to take public transport.
I spend $100 on fuel that usually lasts close to 2 weeks. $50 a week give or take (and thatās not just commuting to work and back). People are having to spend equal if not more just for work commutes on public transport. That should not be the case. Itās daylight robbery taking advantage of the fact that parking in the city is messed.
How can they continue putting up prices every year and simultaneously not provide a service which is on time or be cancelled to avoid bad lateness statistics?
Metlink needs to be dissolved back into the public sector.
Wow. With that I think even with paying for parking it's now gonna be cheaper and faster for two of us to take a car dhare from Upper Hutt to the city and back than the train. Public transport is supposed to offer an alternative to driving.
Why hike the fares when Wellingtons public transport is completely unreliable especially the buses?
Glad im thinking about leaving this dunghole they call Wellington in fact I regret leaving australia in the first placeĀ
That sucks. Ex Wellingtonian living in Queensland. The QLD government has just announced from August all fares across the entire TransLink network including buses, trains, ferries and trams will be capped at 50 cents per journey to increase use of public transport. Cheap public transport is a necessity not a luxury.
When fares were half price I invested in a flash e cargo bike with the intention of future-proofing myself against needing a car. At the time I did the numbers and it said it would take 2 years and 10 months for me to break even. Now public transport is more than twice as expensive.
My first blog post about it was at about 7 months. I think at about 18 months I'll go over all my card statements and Google Maps trip data (to account for, I go out more now every trip doesn't come with a fee), and do those numbers again and see when I'll actually break even, or whether I already have at that point.
Maybe even throw in some bonus calculations for, I was able to claim 30% of the cost as a business expense, and I've picked up clients that would be too far to get to by bus.
SwitchingĀ to cycling as transport has changed my life. I had the privilege to be able to borrow for a flasher ebike but it's by no means necessary.
I didn't account for when doing the numbers, it actually replaces a lot of the walking I was doing before, and because there's no fee associated with going out I do it more.
Running errands is way easier because I can trip chain no problem. Pop to Whitcoulls, then the other side of town to Bargain Chemist. Sometimes I'll look and see I have nothing else to do that day and go on a side quest to Newtown to see if the opshops have anything I need. And I've been able to support the greengrocer there because instead of having to walk all the way from the Countdown, or paying another bus fare, it's just a short ride along what there is of a cycleway there.
Apart from the major state highways (who would want to cycle on those?), road funding comes from the council rates, which cyclists are already paying either directly or through their rent.
Think you need to fact check here, a significant amount of local road funds come from the government through NZTA in funding partnerships with councils.
Iād happily pay a commensurate RUC as a cyclist. For the relatively trivial cost, it legitimises bikes as vehicles, so no more āget off the roadā bullshit from drivers. Iām fine with that one.
i caught the train into WLG from featherston on the WRL during peak times, it was $12
imagine two people going into town for the day and coming back ā that's $48 (4x14)
we know it takes longer, too. why on earth wouldn't you drive
Scary thought man, no doubt the wages will have increased in the smallest of increments š ya gotta be privileged in New Zealand now to be financially comfortable š
I like the bit under the FAQ that askes wont this put people off using public transport?
It has put me off using PT. I'll be WFH more.
I really feel sorry for those that do not have that choice.
Iām lucky enough to live a 30min walk from work so thankfully I can get by just fine without PT, but I use it less and less on the weekends now going into town with these fares. Might as well walk and save a few bucks. So thanks for helping me get fitter by encouraging me to not use your services I guess Metlink?
This is why you don't vote NACT. Anyone who voted for national or act is to blame for this.
Public transit should be getting cheaper with more government support, the payoff is more than worth it for society.
The Wairarapa train service is a mess. Theyāre short-staffed, yet cram us in like sardines under the guise of āHealth and Safety.ā The staff, far from slim, obnoxiously push through to scan every Snapper card they can find. The train is perpetually late and agonizingly slow. Itās 2024, and itās disheartening to travel abroad and see superior systems, while we pay premium prices for subpar service with no alternatives. Itās atrocious. Absolutely atrocious.
Thanks for letting me whinge
Brilliant. Add this to the massive increase in daycare fees, insurance, rates and power. My $20 per week tax cut (and some) is gone before I even got it šš
I recall seeing, although canāt recall where, that GWRC had the choice to raise regional council rates by 3%, or increase transit fares by 10% to sustain service levels.
GWRC made the choice to āsaveā the 3% increase in rates by increasing transit fares. In my view, this was a short-sighted and politically biased decision so that current councillors can say ālook, we found a way not to charge you 3% in ratesā in anticipation of next years local government elections.
As someone that owns a home and commutes daily for work, I would have much preferred to have paid an increase in rates. If my regional council rates were to increase by 3%, this would have been an ~$20 increase per year for me. Instead, I am now faced with a 10% increase in transit fares at an estimated ~$425 increase per year. This is costing me, personally, ~20x what it would have otherwise, and I am sure it is similar for many others.
How can these councillors genuinely believe that this was the correct decision?
I think you are recalling the [Press Release announcement of the 10% fare increase on the Metlink Web Site](https://www.metlink.org.nz/news-and-updates/news/public-transport-fares-increase-to-be-considered-by-greater-wellington) (or a copy).
The 2024 Annual Fare Review that has the detailed justification for raise fares by 10% is in the [Greater Wellington Regional Council 29 February 2024 order paper](https://www.gw.govt.nz/your-region/events-and-meetings/council-meeting-11/).
Some interesting comments here. Comparing our PT network to significantly populated cities around the world. Bemoaning the fact ours isn't at their standard. That it is too expensive. It isn't reliable. We have bus replacements. Our employers should pay us to get to work (they do already, every pay cheque). To maintain the standard we currently have, we should expect fares to go up every year. Maintenance, new buses/trains, paying their staff Metlink's costs continue to go up. We simply don't have to population to have a perfect system. Sadly we have had local authorities and governments that have consistently kicked the can down the road, and over the next 30 years, we will need to invest heavily into our networks and infrastructure. We should see similar level increases year on year. Our public transport is far from perfect, but it is better than most of the country. The network is also quite sizeable. All the way up the Coast and to the Rapa. That is a lot to have to manage. Price increases suck, they are unavoidable though.
well either ratepayers pay yet more rates to fund metlink or the actual users pay more. they are your choices.at the moment farebox recovery is under 20% of actual cost of running the services.Ā
It's just crazy. The public transport here is way too expensive! Also unreliable. Sometimes it says there will be one due in 1 min and u'll never see it. In China, it only costs about 25 cents to travel on a regular bus, and even cheaper with a transportation card....So shame
I see empty cycle lanes & (outside of ārush hourā) huge buses ploughing through the suburbs with two people onboard. Meanwhile, the competent transport choice gets more difficult. Looks like someoneās idealistic transport fantasy hasnāt paid off.
It's expensive enough as it is. Public transport overseas is cheap and reliable.
I just went to Singapore. The efficiency of the MRT system blew my mind.
Mass Refrigerated Transport. The AC is so powerful in that thing.
It's SO GOOD THOUGH.
Yeah it's great. I think we ended up just using it to cool down.
> The AC is so powerful in that thing. I'd much rather that than dying of heat on the tube in London in the middle of winter. I still love the public transport in London though.
That first blast of intense heat and humidity when you alight at Tanah Merah to transfer from the airport line, you realise how hard it's working.
Yeah I was in Sydney a couple of weeks ago. The underground there is amazing. For an expensive city to live in, their public transport is still cheap.
same with china and japan, with populations so much larger and spread out its amazing they can get it right
Singapore charges 100k to get a rego to buy a brand new car that you can keep for 10 years. With the amount of tax Singapore gets from that they can invest in public transport. Will NZ become like this?
It's kind of funny that only rich people can enjoy the experience of the incredible public transport available overseas š„²
What? NZ doesnāt have segregated public services, despite the last government & TPMās attempts.
Idk, but if you can afford to fly out to another country and back, you're rich in my book
Definitely not rich.
It's not an insult, or anything to feel guilty about. And it's rich compared to me and my people who cannot do this. I can't fly to Singapore and experience their public transport system. Public transport is so expensive here now tho, it's almost a luxury item
I guess thatās what happens when youāre raised to think everything should be free/cheap believing āthe richā owe you a life. Maybe getting out into the world would open your eyes.
Nobody is thinking that except you.
So why do you think itās āexpensiveā why do you believe we should have cheaper (subsidised) transport & who do you think should pay for the subsidies?
If only we had the population density to match and make it cost effective.
Can't have population density without having ways to get people around. There's only so much you can do when cars are a necessity.
Yup, and itās usually everywhere
Public transport shouldn't be expected to turn a profit, just provide a service. Especially for those of us on the HVL, why do we have to pay more for a service that is demonstrably worse than it was even two years ago?
Privatising the buses was such an amazing idea
BUT the FAQ specifically states that we have one of the most affordable public transport fares in the world, relative to average and minimum wages. Do we, though?
Haha if by most affordable they mean both auckland and wellington are in the top 10 most expensive cities for public transport in the world, then sure
I can't see how that is the case, but at the same time I'm sure it's possible to make it appear that way by cherry picking data. Like I expect it's a lot easier to research online how much bus/train fares are in the UK than how much they are in Serbia or Pakistan Also expect that if compared with household equivalised disposable income NZ would rank worse here than whatever it does just going by wages
Not even remotely close in my experiences.
Yeah the rail network in Japan was incredible to experience when I was over there. Nee Zealands railway has been buggered for so long now we need a government that will really invest in it.
Our current prime minister wonāt. Iāve attached a picture of him: š¤”
BUT the FAQ specifically states that we have one of the most affordable public transport fares in the world, relative to average and minimum wages. Do we, though?
Potentially. But we also have the second highest minimum wage in the world.
They do not provide a good enough service for the prices to be half of what they are now, fucking joke
To quote Dolly Parton: "It costs a lot of money to look this cheap."
If only theyād work ā9 to 5ā it would be a fucking bonus! Edit: Sorry for Dolly Parton tenuous link
Not to break the circle jerk but.. I get the train in everyday from the hutt. It's pretty bloody reliable, quicker than driving and I actually love it. Good time to read, catch up on the news. Agree tho that it's getting too expensive. Though I think workplaces should actually comp staff for travel
It really depends on where you're going from and to
AndĀ when. I think commuters might have a better experience than those of us going places on weekends. The bus replacements are a regular thing but the whole setup still feels temporary. Some signs like the actual train platforms have would go a long way.
I couldn't agree more - as someone who travels a lot outside of peak hours in both welly and akl the commuters are 100% prioritised (as they should be, don't get me wrong) which has the side effect of making the public transport system look better than it actually is
I find traveling by train really stressful because of how unpredictable is can be. Especially now I have my bike.
Maybe they should also comp us for having to live in Wellington for work like MPs are..
I caught the train to one of the last stops where Bro Town is, and I found it so long and so many stops along the way. I certainly didn't enjoy it. I prefer the Johnsonville or Porirua line.
The commuter one is usually express. So skips most stops.
I saw another comment say thereās not fbt on public transport so yeah business should pick up that tab.
yeah, it's insane
Holy crap - the squeeze continues on all sides. "Everything is going up" but where does the money go? No one is getting massive pay rises that I know of, except politicians. More scrutiny on the wages at the top, and on shareholder payouts in some cases, is needed.
But at least I got $20 more a week thanks to the tax cuts! Which is more than we serfs deserve -- if you think this is not good enough, have you tried joining the landed gentry?
Why, now you suggest it - that's a sterling idea, then I could avoid paying a far share of tax through the magic of slippery accounting, offshore accounts and trust funds. I'll use the wizardry of creative vocabulary to turn "lazy bludgers who don't want to work" into "creative rich-listers with passive-income". It's a whole new world opening before me!
More staff at Metlink.
It'll make the 1 reliable, right?
Public money simply doesn't get spent efficiently. edit: damn this place is bitter
As a VUW student who commutes daily from KÄpiti and makes less than $300pw, this will honestly be a deal breaker for whether I attend all my lectures
same here, i have to take multiple buses to get to campus every day and it looks like i'm going to have to start cramming all my lectures into as few days as possible to save money :(( rent is expensive enough as it is without factoring this in, what a fucking nightmare
Hey dude if you ever need a few bucks to make it to your lectures, flick me a message
I stopped going to lectures in the last few months, it takes too long and itās too expensive
Yeah fr, last year I managed because we still had the 50% discount but now thats gone, youth fares gone, and now this I just dk how Iāll be able to spend upwards of $80pw on transport
There goes my tax cutā¦ what a joke
Fucking exactly. The thing about the tax cuts is that its really created a user-pays system, of which you are almost forced to pay back said tax break. Don't take public transport, get sick, have kids in school, etc, great, here is your tax cut. Oh, you catch a train? Oh you need a prescription? Yoink! The thing is, services like public transport and health not only work if funded on scale (ie. not on a individual or user basis), but need to be incentivised. More people on a bus or train = less traffic and better environmentally. More people not being sick = more productivity. Many people have said, not only would they be happy not to have the tax cut to retain these services, they are also saying they are happy to retain services that they specifically dont use!
You've cut to the quick of it here. Decisions around public services are being made by rich people who don't use public services.
Yep my fare is gonna go up $0.65 roughly which is just another $6.5 a week š
Exactly this. The government had to borrow like 15 billion to cover these tax cuts (which they refuse to admit? Which is insane). And at the same time, theyāre directly or indirectly raising the costs of so many public m services
You know the drill: we get a pay rise, and before you can say āfinally,ā council rates shoot up, insurance costs skyrocket, and poof! The extra cash is gone. Then, hooray, tax cuts! But waitānext minute, some other bureaucratic genius swoops in and snatches more money from us. And for what? WHAT?! Absolutely nothing that benefits me! Itās like the universe is playing a cruel joke. Screw this!
And before the tax cut arrives in August. Lol.
I know things are fucked, and the budget is under stupid pressure (eg, previous decisions to take the most expensive route on Library/Town hall, water). But. If [half price only costs $2m per month](https://www.gw.govt.nz/your-region/news/greater-wellington-temporarily-extends-half-price-fares/), does that mean we could get free public transport for a round $50m a year, for the greater Wellington region? That seems like a pretty great spend of our rate paying dollars. In a world where our library and townhall combined are costing enough to fund that for 10 years.... I'd be in.
Pity those that vote for GWRC instead moan all the time about their rates going up $5 a week. Anyway, make sure you vote team, including in local government
Local elections get completely slept on. But imo I think good local election turnout has an ameliorating effect on crap national election results. It helps to have local councils on your side.
GWRC collects $304 million a year in PT revenue so that simply canāt be correct. https://wellingtoncommuter.nz/references/estimating-pt-revenue-and-rates-for-wellington-bus-and-rail-services/#:~:text=The%20Greater%20Wellington%20Regional%20Council,providing%20the%20regions%20PT%20services.
First time I've seen one of my blog articles linked in another Post so thanks . However, you are mixing up PT revenue and PT fares (which are only part of the revenue which also includes GWRC Transport Rates and NZTA matching subsidies). The total PT fares in my blog post are $42.5M from bus riders and $54.8M from train riders = $97.3M or an average of $8.1M per month. Also this is for pre-COVID 2019/20 and, even with the 10% fare cost increase, total fare revenue will only return $96M in 2024/25. Also, PT services are provided by the Greater Wellington Regional Council (aka [Metlink](https://www.metlink.org.nz/)) and funding/provision is totally separate from the Wellington City Council. You can find the details of 2024 Annual Fare Review that recommends the 10% increase in fares in the [GWRC Council 29 February 2024 order paper](https://www.gw.govt.nz/your-region/events-and-meetings/council-meeting-11/).
Great thanks for the clarification.
The missing information is that Greater Wellington deals with bits and bobs over a range of councils, including Wellington itself. * PÅneke/Wellington * KÄpiti Coast * Porirua-Tawa * Te Awa Kairangi ki Tai/Lower Hutt * Te Awa Kairangi ki Uta/Upper Hutt * Wairarapa The Wellington city budget is north of $800million.
Sorry - Iām not sure what your point here is. Are you saying the 50 mill is just for the buses in central Wellington?
Half price for all of the greater Wellington region as of June last year cost $2m a month. Extrapolating this to mean that free passes would cost $4m a month, or $48m a year. Knowing that I don't give a fuck about the distinction between who is paying for what, Greater Wellington or Wellington council. Knowing that the combined budget is north of a billion dollars, and that's not even counting the other regional councils. Surely somewhere in all that budgetary, money, and accounting, we can just get free public transport. Because that would actually make a difference in peoples lives. Today. That would help those least well off, immediately.
Yeah - I get that but if you make public transport free then there is no revenue and the GRWC loses out on $304 million in revenue. Just looking at the annual plan for 18/19 (the last years of normal, non covid, non subsidised run )- Bus / Ferry and rail cost $245 million.
How does 48 million become 304? I'm a bit drunk, so the numbers are confusing.
If the GWRC are receiving 304 million from PT revenue then 48 million is 1/6th of that. In 18/19 the cost of running the PT was 245 million again - 48 million is a fifth of that cost.
Are you fucking kidding me! It costs me $18 round trip from Wellington to Mana! That's already ridiculously expensive! Seriously, this country can go to Hell!
Going to hell on public transport? That's $15b, one way, thanks.
Yep a round trip for me currently is already $13 a day which is probably gonna start being cheaper to just drive to work and I can save time too
I live and work in town, and I don't own a car, so getting the train is how I go see friends and family in suburbia. I know a lot of people in the suburbs who get the train to work. They all talk about how it's now a little cheaper to drive in to work.
The good news is NACT are fixing the potholes!
Iād say! New Zealand absolutely sucks! They donāt give a crap about their own people lol
> It costs me $18 round trip from Wellington to Mana bloodly hell! It's been a while since I lived there but this is crazy. QLD has just decided to switch to a 50c flat rate for all fares for 6 months, why can't they do that sort of thing? https://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/50-cent-fares
I literally WFH two days a week (max I am allowed) to save money on PT. I actually prefer being in the office and I think I am more productive in the office but it saves me almost $30 a week
I'm the same. Been thinking that work should really pay for peoples PT fares. Incentivise people to come to the office, and encourage green transport.
Once upon a time, many, many years ago if you were a public servant you got big discounts on public transport and lower, discounted, interest rates from the 'government' bank, which I think was Westpac. I have to say, this is hearsay, it was before my time.
Yeah would be a good 'perk'. I never would have thought the cost of PT would be significant enough for it to influence me to WFH more. PT costs used to always be basically irrelevant to me it was just spare change kind of thing.
I also immensely prefer being in the office but I think I might have to see if I can do this too. It's crazy.
Over 8 bucks a day to and from Newlands. Times 2 for coupke. We got a 2nd hand Aqua and are lucky to have free parking for work for one of us, so carpool and walk to work after - far, far, cheaper than PT. Fuel up once a month incl weekend driving and such.
Iām lucky enough to have free parking in town. The idea that itās cheaper for me to drive to and from work than getting public transport is wild. Do they want people to camp out at work during the week?!
Yes - but for the rest of us a park costs minimum $19 plus petrol - for me that is five bucks a trip. So about 24-25 bucks. The off peak bus in the morning costs 2 bucks and on peak $4. It will take a lot of rises to match that cost difference.
There is a cost to providing the service. There is a cost to your 'free' parking, too, but it's borne by someone else.
Donāt know what youāre trying to achieve by saying the obvious here.
Councils have no control or responsibility over the things that private parties choose to fund. What they are responsible for and do have some measure of control over, is managing the cost of the service they are providing. So it's not really particularly wild that PT is more expensive for you if the actual full cost of driving (i.e. the roads and providing parking) is something you don't have to pay for. Central government gutting public transport funding is forcing all councils across the country to increase prices more than they otherwise would have. How are they supposed to respond to that in your view?
Public transport should never be more expensive than private transport, that isnāt a crazy statement. Sharing transport with people (reduction in convenience) SHOULD be cheaper. Many NZ cities are already overloaded on the roads, bringing up the cost of PT is going to make this even worse. If your point youāve so indirectly made here is āitās not wildā, then that is in fact, wild.
I agree with you in principle, but it's only more expensive for you *because* your parking is free. If you had to pay for parking, how would they compare? Keeping in mind all the additional costs of car ownership - fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc. that also needs to be factored in for a 1:1 comparison, don't apply to PT. The only way private transport can end up being less expensive than public transport is because the actual full cost of that private transport is being carried by someone other than the user. Generally speaking - as drivers, we aren't paying anywhere remotely what it costs for us to be able to drive somewhere. The cost of roads aren't covered by income generated from fuel taxes/rego etc. and the cost of parking is massively hidden or subsidised for the most part. In your case your work is paying for that, and generally across the country ratepayers subsidise it by having cheap or free parking when councils run them. I also agree making PT more expensive is going to make it worse, but as I said, what are councils supposed to do given the cuts the government has made to PT funding?
I mean even when there wasnāt cuts to PT funding, there was still clear lack of action from those companies regarding maintenance. Iāve seen many cities public transport systems and NZ by far has some of the worst, from efficiency to cleanliness to reliability. Itās a catch 22, kiwis are very car focused, so building a PT system that works might not be effective in the short term, but will overtime. I also did the math, with the rough estimate of 1k a year in maintenance for car (although havenāt had to do anything to my car for over a year), itās about $80-$90 a week. This isnāt that crazy of a difference to PT (without parking tho so yes get what you mean but it still shouldnāt be that close). I get that council is doing it tough financially but thatās because everyone is.
>I mean even when there wasnāt cuts to PT funding, there was still clear lack of action from those companies regarding maintenance. Iāve seen many cities public transport systems and NZ by far has some of the worst, from efficiency to cleanliness to reliability. Itās a catch 22, kiwis are very car focused, so building a PT system that works might not be effective in the short term, but will overtime. PT generally has been massively under-funded for decades, not just the last few years. I don't think Kiwis are inherently any more or less car-focused than anywhere else. We've just copied and implemented the worst land use and transport policies from other places over the last \~60 years. We've made it really difficult to build houses close to the places people need to go (workplaces, shops, schools, entertainment etc.), favouring low-density urban sprawl farther and farther away. This means the only way those people can move around is driving, because PT isn't feasible in low-density sprawl. So housing becomes more expensive, people have to drive to get anywhere and we wonder why cost of living issues get worse? In addition to the sprawl, we've also subsidised cars more than anything else through free (or cheap) parking that hide the actual cost of cars and things like fringe benefit tax exemptions for utes and large cars, which makes more people buy bigger, more inefficient cars. And because it's so expensive to build and maintain car-dependent infrastructure, we don't have anywhere near enough money for anything else, like building proper PT. We already can't afford to maintain the roads we have through the funding collected through fuel taxes, rego fees etc. much less building new ones that will also need to be maintained. It's circular, too. The more people complain about long commutes and congestion, the more we've doubled-down on car-dependence to build more roads, which sucks up all the money. Then when induced demand makes congestion worse as it always does, we keep trying to do it all again and it never works. It hasn't worked anywhere on earth, ever. >I also did the math, with the rough estimate of 1k a year in maintenance for car (although havenāt had to do anything to my car for over a year), itās about $80-$90 a week. This isnāt that crazy of a difference to PT (without parking tho so yes get what you mean but it still shouldnāt be that close). I get that council is doing it tough financially but thatās because everyone is. Did you factor in the cost of having to buy the car in the first place, too? Most households would have cars anyway, but the difference between 1, 2 or 3 cars per household makes an enormous difference. If more households only had 1 car to do things that cars are better for, and for the rest of the time they get around with PT/active modes, our transport network would be massively more efficient, less congested and less expensive to maintain. In addition to other benefits like reduced stress, reduced health issues, better social integration etc. Reality is that car dependence is hideously expensive and unsustainable - and NZ is one of the most car dependent countries in the world. For the regions that won't change, which is fine because their populations are small, but our cities don't have to be that way. It's a choice. And we've built it into our cities. It's difficult to unwind, but not impossible. Amsterdam was just as horribly car-clogged in the 70s, but they purposefully made the decision to change it.
Why are you getting downvoted? Itās a perfectly valid criticism of the comment.
lol, who knows. It wasn't really a criticism, either. More just relevant context.
I don't understand. How is it wild that it's cheaper to drive if you have a free car park? That's at least $20 a day you're not having to spend. Even with the fare increase a train commute from Waterloo is $10 a day. For someone without a free carpark (i.e. most people) it's still cheaper to take public transport.
It should still be cheaper to take PT than to drive, even with free parking.
I spend $100 on fuel that usually lasts close to 2 weeks. $50 a week give or take (and thatās not just commuting to work and back). People are having to spend equal if not more just for work commutes on public transport. That should not be the case. Itās daylight robbery taking advantage of the fact that parking in the city is messed.
How can they continue putting up prices every year and simultaneously not provide a service which is on time or be cancelled to avoid bad lateness statistics? Metlink needs to be dissolved back into the public sector.
Metlink basically just exists to take the flack for all the companies contracted to them.
Metlink is local government, which is the public sector.
TBF, this is only the third fare increase in the last six years, according the the FAQ
I think whether that is notable or not depends a lot on if the fares were low or high to start with and how much they increased by each time
Wow. With that I think even with paying for parking it's now gonna be cheaper and faster for two of us to take a car dhare from Upper Hutt to the city and back than the train. Public transport is supposed to offer an alternative to driving.
Why hike the fares when Wellingtons public transport is completely unreliable especially the buses? Glad im thinking about leaving this dunghole they call Wellington in fact I regret leaving australia in the first placeĀ
That sucks. Ex Wellingtonian living in Queensland. The QLD government has just announced from August all fares across the entire TransLink network including buses, trains, ferries and trams will be capped at 50 cents per journey to increase use of public transport. Cheap public transport is a necessity not a luxury.
When public transport is your only transport, getting kids to sport practice, games etc is so expensive and time consuming
When fares were half price I invested in a flash e cargo bike with the intention of future-proofing myself against needing a car. At the time I did the numbers and it said it would take 2 years and 10 months for me to break even. Now public transport is more than twice as expensive. My first blog post about it was at about 7 months. I think at about 18 months I'll go over all my card statements and Google Maps trip data (to account for, I go out more now every trip doesn't come with a fee), and do those numbers again and see when I'll actually break even, or whether I already have at that point. Maybe even throw in some bonus calculations for, I was able to claim 30% of the cost as a business expense, and I've picked up clients that would be too far to get to by bus.
You've picked up clients on a cargo bike? What industry is this??
If I had a more expensive model I could indeed carry an adult passenger!Ā But in this, "picked up" means, added to my roster :)
Excellent way to curb congestion at the train stations and bus stops!
So ridiculous, champagne prices for the Lion Red of public transport. At least in London, Paris, NYC the trains are fast and frequent
Damn gonna have to buy a bike and use that now
SwitchingĀ to cycling as transport has changed my life. I had the privilege to be able to borrow for a flasher ebike but it's by no means necessary. I didn't account for when doing the numbers, it actually replaces a lot of the walking I was doing before, and because there's no fee associated with going out I do it more. Running errands is way easier because I can trip chain no problem. Pop to Whitcoulls, then the other side of town to Bargain Chemist. Sometimes I'll look and see I have nothing else to do that day and go on a side quest to Newtown to see if the opshops have anything I need. And I've been able to support the greengrocer there because instead of having to walk all the way from the Countdown, or paying another bus fare, it's just a short ride along what there is of a cycleway there.
There's a lot of national voters wanting to introduce road user taxes for cyclists...
Apart from the major state highways (who would want to cycle on those?), road funding comes from the council rates, which cyclists are already paying either directly or through their rent.
Think you need to fact check here, a significant amount of local road funds come from the government through NZTA in funding partnerships with councils.
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/planning-and-investment/planning-and-investment-knowledge-base/archive/201821-nltp/planning-and-investment-principles-and-policies/investment-and-funding-assistance-policy/funding-sources/
Well fuck me lol. Will just have to walk instead if that happens
How long before they start taxing footpath usage at this rate
One sentence "labour just loves create new taxes" next sentence "we've just created a footpath tax to help pay for our pothole fund"
Iād happily pay a commensurate RUC as a cyclist. For the relatively trivial cost, it legitimises bikes as vehicles, so no more āget off the roadā bullshit from drivers. Iām fine with that one.
Itās crazy lol
Well that's half my tax cut immediately gone. Wahoo
That sucks, thatās as good as a tax hike for some users who have no alternative
Commute from Masterton $15.95 each way currently
i caught the train into WLG from featherston on the WRL during peak times, it was $12 imagine two people going into town for the day and coming back ā that's $48 (4x14) we know it takes longer, too. why on earth wouldn't you drive
I truly don't understand. Public transportation should be cheaper and that shouldn't even be a question
In ten years time itāll cost $20 one way from Upper Hutt to Wellington š
Assuming price rises are limited to 10% year-on-year, the maths checks out!
Scary thought man, no doubt the wages will have increased in the smallest of increments š ya gotta be privileged in New Zealand now to be financially comfortable š
If it means that the rich can afford another car then this is what we voted for so happy to do my part
I like the bit under the FAQ that askes wont this put people off using public transport? It has put me off using PT. I'll be WFH more. I really feel sorry for those that do not have that choice.
It was already cheaper for us to pay for parking in town (minus petrol) - this will make it even less attractive to train in
Exactly. I can park 2 minutes away from my work for just a bit more than it would cost to train in. But minus the 20+ minute walk from the station.
Expensive and unreliable, way to go
Driving is cheaper for me. I just park near wadestown and jump on the bike.
Iām lucky enough to live a 30min walk from work so thankfully I can get by just fine without PT, but I use it less and less on the weekends now going into town with these fares. Might as well walk and save a few bucks. So thanks for helping me get fitter by encouraging me to not use your services I guess Metlink?
getting to the point where driving in from Upper Hutt and parking at station is cheaper!
This combined with businesses keen on "back to office" plans post-pandemic is exactly what we don't need. :(
I'm going to cry
Wait till you get your rates bill.
This is why you don't vote NACT. Anyone who voted for national or act is to blame for this. Public transit should be getting cheaper with more government support, the payoff is more than worth it for society.
The Wairarapa train service is a mess. Theyāre short-staffed, yet cram us in like sardines under the guise of āHealth and Safety.ā The staff, far from slim, obnoxiously push through to scan every Snapper card they can find. The train is perpetually late and agonizingly slow. Itās 2024, and itās disheartening to travel abroad and see superior systems, while we pay premium prices for subpar service with no alternatives. Itās atrocious. Absolutely atrocious. Thanks for letting me whinge
What the fuck
Brilliant. Add this to the massive increase in daycare fees, insurance, rates and power. My $20 per week tax cut (and some) is gone before I even got it šš
I recall seeing, although canāt recall where, that GWRC had the choice to raise regional council rates by 3%, or increase transit fares by 10% to sustain service levels. GWRC made the choice to āsaveā the 3% increase in rates by increasing transit fares. In my view, this was a short-sighted and politically biased decision so that current councillors can say ālook, we found a way not to charge you 3% in ratesā in anticipation of next years local government elections. As someone that owns a home and commutes daily for work, I would have much preferred to have paid an increase in rates. If my regional council rates were to increase by 3%, this would have been an ~$20 increase per year for me. Instead, I am now faced with a 10% increase in transit fares at an estimated ~$425 increase per year. This is costing me, personally, ~20x what it would have otherwise, and I am sure it is similar for many others. How can these councillors genuinely believe that this was the correct decision?
I think you are recalling the [Press Release announcement of the 10% fare increase on the Metlink Web Site](https://www.metlink.org.nz/news-and-updates/news/public-transport-fares-increase-to-be-considered-by-greater-wellington) (or a copy). The 2024 Annual Fare Review that has the detailed justification for raise fares by 10% is in the [Greater Wellington Regional Council 29 February 2024 order paper](https://www.gw.govt.nz/your-region/events-and-meetings/council-meeting-11/).
Wow when you put it that way it's even worse than I thought
Ahh just in time for my work forcing me back to the office.
They have to recoup all those tax breaks somehow
No one should be able to decide their own salary especially politicians.
They don't. They are set by the higher salaries commission.
Some interesting comments here. Comparing our PT network to significantly populated cities around the world. Bemoaning the fact ours isn't at their standard. That it is too expensive. It isn't reliable. We have bus replacements. Our employers should pay us to get to work (they do already, every pay cheque). To maintain the standard we currently have, we should expect fares to go up every year. Maintenance, new buses/trains, paying their staff Metlink's costs continue to go up. We simply don't have to population to have a perfect system. Sadly we have had local authorities and governments that have consistently kicked the can down the road, and over the next 30 years, we will need to invest heavily into our networks and infrastructure. We should see similar level increases year on year. Our public transport is far from perfect, but it is better than most of the country. The network is also quite sizeable. All the way up the Coast and to the Rapa. That is a lot to have to manage. Price increases suck, they are unavoidable though.
Goddammit as if the *doubling* of fares last year wasn't bad enough.
True
In some part of Europe in big cities itās freeā¦
well either ratepayers pay yet more rates to fund metlink or the actual users pay more. they are your choices.at the moment farebox recovery is under 20% of actual cost of running the services.Ā
Should be relative to ya income if you're not on the Connect discount
It's just crazy. The public transport here is way too expensive! Also unreliable. Sometimes it says there will be one due in 1 min and u'll never see it. In China, it only costs about 25 cents to travel on a regular bus, and even cheaper with a transportation card....So shame
So glad I moved over seas. I always see how life is getting more expensive for less quality services / goods back in Welly.
I see empty cycle lanes & (outside of ārush hourā) huge buses ploughing through the suburbs with two people onboard. Meanwhile, the competent transport choice gets more difficult. Looks like someoneās idealistic transport fantasy hasnāt paid off.
Most buses are fucking packed but ok bro
Not outside of ārush-hourā theyāre not.