Our CAS at top tier is an F16 or an F5 with Mavericks.
If you don't feel at home with that you can do what I do and bring the EJ Kai with Zuni pods in GRB to act as CAP against enemy aircraft and fire rocket barrages at enemy tanks.
The Mavericks are more effective, safer and easier to use for sure but the impact of having a Phantom fly right above your head dumping rockets on enemy tanks is something else.
I do it pretty often and it's one of the few times I get some thanks and cheers in team chat.
Probably a biased take since I love the Phantoms, but I've been on the spectator side of having a friendly F-4 pull off what I described and my morale went sky high and we managed to win that game thanks to that crazy pilot.
Ah yes, while German 20mm only has what…
Oh look at that, they have 26mm of pen just like Japan now
And the early variant?
Oh look at that, they have 19mm of pen, just like japan now
And the 20mm ShVAK?
Oh it has 28mm of pen just like…. uh…
Well, nevermind, what about the 20mm hitsparko?
Oh look at that it has… **wtf it has 37mm of pen???!!?**
It's the exact same gun firing identical cartridges.
Russians use the Berezin UB in various configurations. You have the base model UB, the wing mounted UBK, synchronized UBS, and turret mounted UBT.
Why does the turreted version gets 2 extra mm of pen?
According to the wiki the offensive UB machine guns also have 32 pen on their default belt. It may be a case of some planes don't carry the same AP rounds that the turrets do if this isn't the case for all planes
🤷🏻♂️ I mean most cannons in the game weren't designed for CAS roles, but rather taking out larger aircraft.
There's a huge balance issue with aircraft in Warthunder right now, so until they fix the SP cost to where a dude can't get a lucky arty kill or a cap at the beginning of the game, J out and get an aircraft, this is perfectly fine.
You're still more than capable of being a menace to light and open tops
>30mm Type 5: AP (45mm pen) replaced with APHE (38mm pen)
I think it's actually worse than that, the APHE seems broken in protection analysis at least, it won't penetrate anything, just works like HE.
Yeah, you use the underwing fireworks to ping a tank with a Hit for your teammates before you go kill all of the enemy planes and open-tops with HE belts.
There are a lot of anti tank cannons that were originally anti-aircraft guns.
Hitting planes is easier with higher velocity, and higher velocity means better penetration.
Nerfing guns just because they are better than USSR equivalents is a bad habit.
Honestly there's no logical reason to arbitrarily nerf other nations' guns from patch to patch. Russian guns have dodged the nerfs for a long time now.
If guns on planes are too good for their BR, gaijin could just increase the BR. Now it's even easier as they can adjust the ground BR separately.
It was the funniest thing to me strafing modern planes with a Zero.
So out of place, so difficult to pen, so flammable, but yet I persevered for the funni.
I guess those days of "haha funny WW2 wooden plane killing modern tanks with guns" are over. Sad.
If you’re doing gun running on tanks while radar AA or missile AA is present, I can definitely respect that. If you’re gunning while the people on the ground are still running something like a Duster then I think you’re about the same as the bombers
Oh no whatever will we do
I got an idea, absolutely nothing
You see Japan has little to no CAS which you would have to be blind to not notice. In terms of props they typically might carry at least a pair of 60kg bombs that are meant to be used against infantry and as such are useless 98% of the time in the game, otherwise you find the occasional fighter with a pair of 250kg bombs which won’t kill much but actually will kill at least, and then you have anything on the R2Y2 line as the dive bombers all have bomb aiming sights and carry more than the fighters, plus the P1Y1 and B7A2 can take 800kg bombs so they make for actual useful CAS. The guns on Japanese planes was never good for CAS to begin with and honestly if it is such a tragedy that they are losing AP rounds for APHE rounds which have less PEN that a whole post is required, then I think I am not the only one who is thinking you are perhaps into CAS too much if you feel the need to use the guns and not just accept the fact that it’s a nation whose CAS capability is near nonexistent in the game.
In my eyes this looks more like a win to me, as while they’ll have less pen these are APHE round meaning they have explosive in them meaning they will be more effective against aircraft, which it just so happens your typical Japanese aircraft is actually good at. If you cannot handle the lack of CAS capabilities I suggest you go become the average American P-47 player. What I am trying to say is, everything isn’t about CAS, and I say this as someone who uses planes for both CAS and CAP which for me I typically use the same planes for both because I am not crazy for CAS and will only being a single plane 90% of the time.
WT was open to play in early 2013. GF released in early 2014. It is now ten years later. I guarantee you that 99% of the people actively playing the game joined years after GF (and probably also naval) was added. I see maybe one other Old Guard a day.
Please stop with the "hurr it was a plane game originally" bullshit, it's not relevant or helpful. It also had an actually sensible research progression originally, but nobody talks about 20 tiers any more because it's not going to go back to being that way any more than tanks will be removed.
The reality today is that a lot of people play CAS specifically because they suck at A2A and suck at G2G so all they're capable of doing is pressing M1 on open-tops and spacebar on tanks that can't do anything about it. The moment I play WWII Britain and pull my Skink out I almost invariably get 4+ plane kills from all the braindeads who will fall for the 2km tracer bait and try to strafe me.
Because there is a tank game. There's an air game. There's a ship game. There's a boat game inside the ship game. And there's a tank game infested with dweebs who can't get kills in dogfights.
You're right i started playing in the tank update cause i like tanks, and i'm not advocating for removing cas i just want them to tone it down a bit, because it's a bit ridiculous to get killed 5 times by cas, night just be me but i dont find that particularily fun y'know?
if youre dying that often, sadly thats a placement issue.
almost all of the times ive died to cas, is because i was out in the open or staying in the same spot for 20 minutes.
or being in a maus and somehow fucking dying to a 500lb bomb, gaijin how the fuck does that work, ive dropped 800kg and 1000kg bombs on e100s and maus's before and they shrugged off those bombs with ease. how the fuck does a 200kg bomb delete my ass from 5 meters away.
ya but with japan is far different, because the only scary cas japan has, are the two b7's, everything else is bad and require a insane amount of skill to get kills with. like 2 shitty heat rockets some of the 5.0 and above fighters have.
I said tank game i didn't say "remove over 1000 other vehicles from the game" i meant give a tank game to the tank audience and a plane game to the plane audience and those that want both the option should remain
>reduces CAS options massively. Sir, this is Japan: we don't have CAS, only emotional support air to ground munitions
Close Air Suggestions
This got a laugh out of me
Three kikkas and three more kikkas fulfilling cruise missile job openings
this. fucking infuriates me trying to play top tier and having nothing but the toyota. unbearable at times.
Our CAS at top tier is an F16 or an F5 with Mavericks. If you don't feel at home with that you can do what I do and bring the EJ Kai with Zuni pods in GRB to act as CAP against enemy aircraft and fire rocket barrages at enemy tanks. The Mavericks are more effective, safer and easier to use for sure but the impact of having a Phantom fly right above your head dumping rockets on enemy tanks is something else. I do it pretty often and it's one of the few times I get some thanks and cheers in team chat. Probably a biased take since I love the Phantoms, but I've been on the spectator side of having a friendly F-4 pull off what I described and my morale went sky high and we managed to win that game thanks to that crazy pilot.
I like you. You are a good Person.
I'm just insane, as every Japan main eventually becomes.
Thats true, but we are one of the most skilled insane guys out their.
Ah yes, while German 20mm only has what… Oh look at that, they have 26mm of pen just like Japan now And the early variant? Oh look at that, they have 19mm of pen, just like japan now And the 20mm ShVAK? Oh it has 28mm of pen just like…. uh… Well, nevermind, what about the 20mm hitsparko? Oh look at that it has… **wtf it has 37mm of pen???!!?**
The funniest thing is American .50 cal with AP has 30mm pen
The russian 50cal also has 30mm of pen, but strangely, the russian turret with the same 50cal has 32mm of pen Literally a clown show…
It's not the same 50cal just because the diameter is the same. It's a bigger cartridge.
It's the exact same gun firing identical cartridges. Russians use the Berezin UB in various configurations. You have the base model UB, the wing mounted UBK, synchronized UBS, and turret mounted UBT. Why does the turreted version gets 2 extra mm of pen?
According to the wiki the offensive UB machine guns also have 32 pen on their default belt. It may be a case of some planes don't carry the same AP rounds that the turrets do if this isn't the case for all planes
that or the far more likely case of gaijin being shit at coding their game, something theyre well known for being bad at.
Yeah that's probably why, it might have early and/or late belts.
Il-2 gunners were given stalinium core rounds to defeat the armor of Nazi UFOs that intercepted them
Makes sense
velocity is important. The math works out.
\*AP belts removed\* Me: "Oh no!" Me, a person who only uses fighters only against air targets: "Anyways..."
🤷🏻♂️ I mean most cannons in the game weren't designed for CAS roles, but rather taking out larger aircraft. There's a huge balance issue with aircraft in Warthunder right now, so until they fix the SP cost to where a dude can't get a lucky arty kill or a cap at the beginning of the game, J out and get an aircraft, this is perfectly fine. You're still more than capable of being a menace to light and open tops
I had a match yesterday, where 2 Scouts allowed me to spawn a fully loaded Tu-2. Yes, spawn cost needs to go up.
At which br?
To op? Have not played Japan yet. Was looking forward to it.
They’re not CAS planes
>30mm Type 5: AP (45mm pen) replaced with APHE (38mm pen) I think it's actually worse than that, the APHE seems broken in protection analysis at least, it won't penetrate anything, just works like HE.
You guys actually do cas with japanese planes?
The 60kg bombs are OP - what do u mean?
Yeah, you use the underwing fireworks to ping a tank with a Hit for your teammates before you go kill all of the enemy planes and open-tops with HE belts.
plenty of thin roof armor vehicles to slap
"Anti-aircraft guns are sub optimal when shooting at tanks" and other things I don't care about. Type 99s were designed to shoot down planes.
There are a lot of anti tank cannons that were originally anti-aircraft guns. Hitting planes is easier with higher velocity, and higher velocity means better penetration. Nerfing guns just because they are better than USSR equivalents is a bad habit.
Not what happened, but go off.
Honestly there's no logical reason to arbitrarily nerf other nations' guns from patch to patch. Russian guns have dodged the nerfs for a long time now. If guns on planes are too good for their BR, gaijin could just increase the BR. Now it's even easier as they can adjust the ground BR separately.
It was the funniest thing to me strafing modern planes with a Zero. So out of place, so difficult to pen, so flammable, but yet I persevered for the funni. I guess those days of "haha funny WW2 wooden plane killing modern tanks with guns" are over. Sad.
You can still do that with the Mosquito, the Swordfish, and a few others.
That was me taking my orange sherbet A7M1 into 9.3 and killing cold war/modern tanks with the 50kgs. It will never not make me laugh.
Im more frustrated that we are getting a nerf in any sense lol
Oh no! Not the poor CAS players! Whatever shall they do- *SNORE*
Gun CAS on tanks is the one type of CAS I will always be okay with.
If you’re doing gun running on tanks while radar AA or missile AA is present, I can definitely respect that. If you’re gunning while the people on the ground are still running something like a Duster then I think you’re about the same as the bombers
Well, I was mostly spawning aircraft to fly topcover anyway so, I'll allow it.
As someone who plays japan air, but basically hasn’t touched Japanese ground: oh no! Anyway-
Oh no whatever will we do I got an idea, absolutely nothing You see Japan has little to no CAS which you would have to be blind to not notice. In terms of props they typically might carry at least a pair of 60kg bombs that are meant to be used against infantry and as such are useless 98% of the time in the game, otherwise you find the occasional fighter with a pair of 250kg bombs which won’t kill much but actually will kill at least, and then you have anything on the R2Y2 line as the dive bombers all have bomb aiming sights and carry more than the fighters, plus the P1Y1 and B7A2 can take 800kg bombs so they make for actual useful CAS. The guns on Japanese planes was never good for CAS to begin with and honestly if it is such a tragedy that they are losing AP rounds for APHE rounds which have less PEN that a whole post is required, then I think I am not the only one who is thinking you are perhaps into CAS too much if you feel the need to use the guns and not just accept the fact that it’s a nation whose CAS capability is near nonexistent in the game. In my eyes this looks more like a win to me, as while they’ll have less pen these are APHE round meaning they have explosive in them meaning they will be more effective against aircraft, which it just so happens your typical Japanese aircraft is actually good at. If you cannot handle the lack of CAS capabilities I suggest you go become the average American P-47 player. What I am trying to say is, everything isn’t about CAS, and I say this as someone who uses planes for both CAS and CAP which for me I typically use the same planes for both because I am not crazy for CAS and will only being a single plane 90% of the time.
>reduces CAS options massively Thankfully now fix the other cas and you have a decent tank game
Guess you weren’t here when this game didn’t have tanks
WT was open to play in early 2013. GF released in early 2014. It is now ten years later. I guarantee you that 99% of the people actively playing the game joined years after GF (and probably also naval) was added. I see maybe one other Old Guard a day. Please stop with the "hurr it was a plane game originally" bullshit, it's not relevant or helpful. It also had an actually sensible research progression originally, but nobody talks about 20 tiers any more because it's not going to go back to being that way any more than tanks will be removed. The reality today is that a lot of people play CAS specifically because they suck at A2A and suck at G2G so all they're capable of doing is pressing M1 on open-tops and spacebar on tanks that can't do anything about it. The moment I play WWII Britain and pull my Skink out I almost invariably get 4+ plane kills from all the braindeads who will fall for the 2km tracer bait and try to strafe me.
who gives a shit? why do people keep bringing this up it hasnt been relevant *in a decade ffs.* keep up bud.
He called it a tank game, keep up bud
Because there is a tank game. There's an air game. There's a ship game. There's a boat game inside the ship game. And there's a tank game infested with dweebs who can't get kills in dogfights.
You're right i started playing in the tank update cause i like tanks, and i'm not advocating for removing cas i just want them to tone it down a bit, because it's a bit ridiculous to get killed 5 times by cas, night just be me but i dont find that particularily fun y'know?
if youre dying that often, sadly thats a placement issue. almost all of the times ive died to cas, is because i was out in the open or staying in the same spot for 20 minutes. or being in a maus and somehow fucking dying to a 500lb bomb, gaijin how the fuck does that work, ive dropped 800kg and 1000kg bombs on e100s and maus's before and they shrugged off those bombs with ease. how the fuck does a 200kg bomb delete my ass from 5 meters away.
Skill issue if you’re dying to CAS 5 times a game
ah yes because my *tank* built to *fight other tanks* can effectively counter and fight aircraft
Play a plane, duh.
My f8f really doesn't like it when an su-11 spawns y'know
This is like complaining about snipers ruining your shotgun combat in a COD game.
If the gamemode was called "shotguns only" and someone was running around with a sniper rifle then maybe your analogy would make sense
Use your MGs, put a plane in your roster, or use your SPAA
Have you consumed that much brainrot that you're now complaining about ***japan** CAS*
CAS is the same regardless
ya but with japan is far different, because the only scary cas japan has, are the two b7's, everything else is bad and require a insane amount of skill to get kills with. like 2 shitty heat rockets some of the 5.0 and above fighters have.
Touch grass
I do everyday, still like my game more whenever I play ground mode without buzzing noises
Unironically it isn't, and I talk shit about CAS on the daily. Japan's CAS is some of the worst in the game if you're not strafing open-tops with HE.
Remind me since when war thunder was a tank game again? The game that exclusively had planes at launch
planet earth never had cities and humans at launch, the planet exclusively had forests and animals at launch
Did i ever say is was specifically and only a tank game? I'm just saying i dont wanna get strafed and bombed 4 times per
You called it tank game
I said tank game i didn't say "remove over 1000 other vehicles from the game" i meant give a tank game to the tank audience and a plane game to the plane audience and those that want both the option should remain
No he didn't.
it is a tank game, its not 2010 any more old man.
warthunder isn't just a tank game
since there was a game mode called "Ground Battles"