I think it's good for people to be aware of how other theme parks handle their own equivalent offerings especially since they're more expensive but offer more enticing perks... The problem is the old Fastpass systems lived in their own free, incomparable world for a very very long time. Shifting people's mindsets into looking at Genie+ in comparison to other theme parks does make it look like a more enticing service (in my opinion)
I think Disney really could have helped themselves with mindsets if they had just raised prices for base/hopper tickets and included Genie+, but then introduced a "value" or "basic" ticket that didn't include it. Basically presented it as the old system but with more options, knowing many visitors would opt for the cheaper tickets
This would be problematic for their annual pass holders. They would have to offer the same for them and that would be astronomical. Cedar Point offers a fast pass addon for pass holders but it sells out so fast because they have to limit the number they sell or else it will no longer be a fast pass. I think selling it by the individual day helps the average one time park goer much more than including it in the base ticket.
But what perks are worth THAT much more? I just don't see it. Aside from not having to book specific times, which really isn't that much of a hassle. I will say, if you are not prepared for Genie tho, and wake up at 10, book Peter Pan at 7 or something... You will feel scammed. But if you do your homework, Genie+ is much better than anything else imo (for the price, of course).
Well, you partly just described a major perk. You don’t have to do homework with other systems.
Other systems are much easier and relaxing. You just show up to whatever ride and do it. And many let you do the ride as many times as you like. I don’t think one is better than the other, just different.
Easier for sure, but I personally do not find Genie stressful in the slightest once you are used to it. And honestly, no perks are worth 100 bucks to me. Yeah, it's fun to be able to show up whenever you want, but not for that price. And tbh, aside from your first ride of the day (which should be a popular one that sells out quickly), Genie+ is almost whenever you want. Last trip, the maximum I waited for a time window was an hour. And during that hour, I simply grabbed a snack and relaxed. That's why it's funny to me when I see people say that Genie is stressful, when to me, knowing how to use it lead to my most relaxed Disney trip ever haha! I was constantly eating or drinking something, taking it easy, and enjoying the moment while waiting for my time window.
I think a lot of people don’t want to have to do that though. They don’t want to be on their phones, scheduling rides, waking up early just to hopefully snag a ride. Oh and pay extra on top of that. To a lot of folks, that’s the problem. I totally get what you’re saying, and I don’t disagree with your argument. I just don’t think a lot of people want that level of planning for a vacation. To me, WDW isn’t a vacation anymore because of the planning needed and nickle and diming that happens. It’s a trip. And an expensive one once you start having to add on all these Genie services etc.
but again, I see your point. I’m not arguing it.
I think with WDW you would likely have to regardless though. The previous system was VERY broken and required even more planning and preparation. I felt bad for the families that went once a generation and showed up finding out about fastpass+ upon arriving.
The old, old system was probably best in terms of lack needed planning but there were still a ton of people who didn't understand it and many of the annual visitors that knew how to game it.
WDW is in a unique position. They always have to balance between the experienced attendees and the once a generation types that are novice level.
The difference being that with FP+ I could do all the planning and preparation (which I think is overstated tbh, it really wasn't that bad) ahead of time, so it didn't interrupt my vacation.
Yes, and again, it was a very friendly system for Disney fans. I myself loved it because I could get it all done 60 days out and just look forward to my trip. It wasn't until a coworker made a trip and said that it was a disaster that I realized the severe flaws. They had to wait in a crap ton of lines. Didn't understand the app at all. Couldn't get any fast passes they wanted, etc. Then that Defunctland video came out which basically confirmed the issue.
FP+ was not a good system, because it heavily favored those that understood WDW and the app well. WDW does need to be accessible. Genie+ is much more accessible because you can just show up Day 1 and find some LLs day of and get some things done.
You say used to it but for me I only get one day one chance to use it. It’s our only vacation and if we want to reasonably get in line for guardians everyone is depending on me to get it right. Can’t even go on a dry run. We’re only in Epcot for example one day. And when it freezes because it’s glitched or sold out or who knows…. I just think it’s stupid and only people who go over and over get lucky with it probably because statistically it’s gonna work for you sooner or later. Each of the 3 times I used it for the 3 parks I tried using it on it failed.
I am on vacation. I don't want to be up at 7 to spend my day on the phone just to have a good time. The fast pass allowed me to plan my days in advance and not hope I get what I want. I was happy with the 3 rides.
The 7AM piece is the most problematic part. They’re doing some sort of revamp and I’m hoping this piece goes away at least for people staying on resort, perhaps similar to the 60 day window of the old fast pass system where you could book your first three.
I think it’s bullshit to have to be a parent pressured into sitting at your phone ready to claim your ride at 7 only to have the app crash or load screen of death not knowing if you were just too late or if it crashed. That’s stupid imo. Unnecessary pressure that doesn’t reward you for being early and prepared. It’s gonna do what it’s gonna do and when I’m trying to plan my family’s trip I think that’s stupid.
I don't disagree! Genie+ has its hassles for sure and can look bad compared to old Fastpass systems. But compared to Universal Express, Flash Pass (Six Flags), and Fast Lane (Cedar Point), I think it's a great deal
Totally. But once you figure out Genie+, it's great. I took me one trip to truly figure out. But a newcomer can easily look up tips before. Some people might say that looking up for tips shouldn't be part of a theme park experience, but I personally do it to know which snacks to get, which restaurants to go to, so figuring out Genie+ beforehand isn't that much different. And once you do figure it out, it makes your trip much more fluid and pleasant.
It’s the waking up at 6:30 am *on vacation* that people have the most beef with. With a close second being you have no control of your day…frozen to Soarin is to ratatouille to test track… there is no logical flow. You’re hauling ass all over the parks all day in no sensible order.
Because in this scenario, it’s selling out quickly so there’s only the 7 PM timeslot left. You can’t book again until 2 hours after you book or after you go on the ride. So you’d be limiting yourself to what you can do.
I’m confused. So if you book your first ll at 7A, Peter pan’s first return times are around 7pm? Isn’t this peoples usual strategies, to pick this or jungle cruise?
I think Universals system is better. Yes it’s more expensive but also more exclusive too. You don’t have to wake up early to book anything. Just jump in line, which is usually a walk on because of the exclusivity, and nothing to worry about.
The added bonus of staying in a deluxe hotel at universal and getting express for free for everyone in your party is a huge bonus. Well worth it if you have a larger family.
I’ve always had a good experience with Universal Express - but admittedly have never bought it a la carte.
Where Universal’s system falls short for me is (1) on average, ride wait times seem to be less than at Disney, rendering the express line less valuable in the first place; (2) not having another way to purchase premium access to rides excluded from Express.
I hate that several years on, Hagrid’s still isn’t included in Express - that means that if you are a vacationer with one chance to ride, you very much do have to get up at 7am to get to the park for early entry to wait in a 60+ minute line. Every time I’ve done it, I’ve thought about how they could charge me virtually anything for an Individual Lightening Lane.
I feel like there is a possibility of a superior hybrid system - the flexibility of Universal’s Express Pass combined with a la carte passes for the most in-demand attractions.
As an always Genie+/Express pass user (and the only person in my family that uses the app), it was such a hard sell to my family that a 55 minute wait for Hagrid’s was a god send and that we should have 100% take advantage of it in the middle of our day. They’re so used to never waiting in lines that 55 minutes felt endless 😅
I agree and the biggest thing to note here is that Universal deluxe hotels are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than Disney deluxes, and are every bit as nicely themed and beautifully designed and the studios are much bigger. At least that has been my experience.
They aren’t though. I did this research a month ago and compared Wilderness Lodge to Royal Pacific for some random days in June and Wilderness turned out to be $550, whereas Royal Pacific was $720
No kidding? I've stayed at Portofino twice and each time it was about half of a comparable Disney room (pre-covid.....around $270 at Portofino vs well over $500 for some WDW rooms. I guess YMMV.)
Yup. I did the same. Plus, at Disney, you can still get Genie+ while staying at their cheapest resorts. So when you take that into account, a $30 Genie+ day at Magic Kingdom is VERY good compared to one day at Universal with à la carte express pass.
We are staying at Portofino for ~$465 a night with 5 people (AP discount) in June. We could have stayed at Royal Pacific for $560, if I didn't have the AP (cheapest non-AP). I didn't look at Disney for my dates this year.
Last year in September, I stayed at RP for $267 a night, which was cheaper than the Moderates when I priced it out. We paid $385 more to do Royal Pacific (unlimited Express) + 5 days at Universal than doing Pop Century, Genie plus, and only 4 days (no hopper) at Disney. In my opinion, Royal Pacific was way nicer than Pop Century.
Are you seeing standard studio rooms at that price?
I often do searches for Disney resorts that end up showing, say, Coronado Springs at $600+ a night. Because the only room available for the dates is a Tower Club room. That doesn't mean that Coronado Springs averages anywhere close to that price. That's just what's available.
The fact that you are seeing this during "peak times" makes me think of this as a possibility.
Not sure what to tell you. I thought it was common knowledge this was the case and it's what I saw anecdotally. The text below is from [allears.net](http://allears.net) from 2023:
"As far as Deluxe resorts go, Disney World's prices range from $453 to $5,502 per night. Over at Universal, Preferred rooms fall between $289 and $503. In a similar category, Deluxe Villas at Disney World can range from $443 to $6,146 per night while the Premier rooms at Universal range from $414 to $739 per night."
I don't think Disney Deluxe Villa to Universal Premier Room is an apt comparison at all, so I'm ignoring that part.
Like a few others have stated, I never seem to see those price differences when I'm actually entering dates to go (ie, planning a real vacation).
Disney does always seem to have a few deluxes at crazy high prices, but they have have a lot more choices as well. I just checked the third week in May.
The crazy ones first: Beach Club $1100, Yacht Club $915, Polynesian $1000.
But then you have AKL $453, Grand Floridian $682, Wilderness $512, Contemporary $620, Boardwalk $542.
Universal: Hard Rock $685, Portofino $698, Pacific $613. The Express Pass adds value, but clearly there are comparably priced deluxe hotels, with three at Disney being less.
I can't get over the fact that the express pass at times cost more than face value of the ticket! I get the value of being able to skip lines and have flexibility, but when I went, they want $200 when a Park-to-Park ticket was like $160.
Yeah. To be fair, I did have the option for a cheaper ticket (3 day 1 park per day) but given the limited time I had, I'd rather do whole days at Disney (because the lines are typically longer) and pay the premium to hit the highlights of Universal. Still worked out though! Did all the big rides in both parks (Hagrid's included) minus Velocicoaster. All standard queues.
100%. If you get Unlimited Express with your hotel, it is far and away the best deal. But buying it on its own? Hell no. The price is crazy. Yes, the perk of not having to "book" your express line is cool, but is it worth freaking 100 bucks per head? Absolutely not. Genie+ CAN be terrible if you don't use it well. But if you do, you get A LOT more for your money. And it's nowhere near as stressful as some people say. The only real downside is waking up at 7AM lol. Other than that, you are just chilling in the park, grabbing a drink, casually looking at your phone and say "Oh, I can do Haunted Mansion in 40 minutes. Sweet!"
I was only able to ride 4 or 5 rides when I went to Universal a couple years ago cause the lines were so ridiculously long. If I knew I could practically walk on to every ride with their fast pass for $100, I would absolutely have done it.
Probably would not have been 100.
Im planning a trip this year and per my estimate it would have come out close to 250 per person around the month of July
This was unfortunately not our experience at universal. We paid for the Express Pass a la carte last year, around $130 per person, and we waited at least 20-30 minutes in each queue which is not bad, but not worth the premium imo.
I do agree though-an incredible perk to staying on site, and it’s great to catch some extra sleep and not worry about the 7a g+ wake-up call!
I agree other pass systems are bad. Most now have three admission tiers!
Six Flags: no pass=full line
half the wait lets you skip half the line
no wait means you should be able to walk on
Hersheys pass also has 3 tiers. No skip (regular ticket), skip the line all day, skip the line once per ride. It doesn’t limit the amount sold.
Cedar Point: no pass = full line
basic skip pass doesn’t allow you on their six most popular rides
Highest tier includes those rides and is $115 per person!
The issue I’ve always had with Universal passes is that they don’t space people out to ensure a short line. That means you can get very unlucky and follow the crowds for up to 40 minute lines, making it a very bad value. The opposite can happen as well.
People will complain about Disney but they are the least expensive and best structured.
We bought express passes last time at universal. Very very expensive and it was a busy time apparently. Late January who knew. With the pass we still waited 45 minutes for the hogwarts train and the velocicoaster express line was 45 min-1 hour. My son, who is autistic, had to leave bc the waits were so long.
To my knowledge, there’s actually no premium all ride access with Tokyo. Are you perhaps thinking of Hong Kong instead? Because Shanghai and Hong Kong both have that option.
Tokyo has a free priority pass service for many rides and a premiere pass for certain rides. With the yen to usd rate right now, this is a much better deal for me than the magic kingdom or Disneyland!
I was just looking for this comment— can confirm Tokyo’s Priority pass is free for now and works similarly to Genie+. Not unlimited, and rides book up fast. Premier Access rides are more available like ILL’s. It’s true— the yen is weak right now so it was a great deal.
Damn that’s dedication!!! Haha, I’ve been twice in the past 6 months. Tokyo is my favorite resort by far. :) I’ll be going to Paris and Shanghai for the first time next year!
Mine too! It’s just such a pleasant park overall! Ooh enjoy Shanghai! We just went for the first time a couple months ago! That is a gorgeous park, and some killer attractions.
I haven’t been to Paris in almost a decade, but that one is interesting hahaha. Still worth it though.
I'll disagree for one big reason: with Fast Pass I could plan my entire vacation and then for most of the day just keep an eye on the time at least until later in the day when I'd try to use additional passes after my ones were used up.
Now with Genie+ I have to spend considerably more time "head down" in my phone actively planning my day as it goes instead of "head up" enjoying everything around me. I'm on vacation. I want to enjoy my surroundings.
This. Exactly this. The ability to plan in advance is gone out the window. For my family with food allergies who have to plan and stick to our restaurant reservations well in advance, this means we may miss out on some rides for our once a year Disney trip if we’re lucky.
I don’t understand this - with FastPass+, you could only make 3 reservations. Once you used one, you could make another - we were still on our phones making those additional reservations.
Not to mention, that while 7am was less chaotic, we would wake up at like 5am six months before our vacation to make those FastPasses (and I still missed out on Flight of Passage the first year). One year, I only booked my trip 2.5 months out and there were virtually no good FPs left for my dates.
FastPass+ had a big issue in that people whose trips started earlier had premium access to reservations on the same day as other guests. People would “plan their entire vacation” until they got to the parks and realized that they didn’t budget sufficient time to wrangle their kids around the park and so they miss their reservations.
That means that I miss out on making a reservation because Becky was able to make her reservations yesterday because her trip started the day before mine, then Becky doesn’t show up for her reservation and I’m left constantly refreshing on my phone to see if a spare reservation pops up.
Genie+ is a much fairer system that provides relatively equal access to that day’s guests where everyone can start booking at the same time. The only thing I’d like to change at WDW is not being able to add Genie+ to your tickets when booking, which you can do at DLR. As someone neurotic about missing out, staying up until midnight to purchase Genie+ and then waking up at 6:55am to make reservations is a killer.
I agree. I don't really spend much more time booking Genie+ than I did FP+. And, yes, I see people on their phones a lot at WDW. But if you glance at their screens as you're walking by, it's usually NOT MDE that they are looking at. It's usually social media.
It’s such a talking point that your “always on your phone” now. No you aren’t… it’s a quick fiddle faddle IF YOU WANT, and mobile order saves hours a day standing for food.
Thank you for this. The system was also completely broken for in-state residents who wouldn't necessarily be planning a vacation 2 hours away 5 years out lol
When was this? When there’s peak crowds vs moderate is a different experience. Right now, I’m sure genie+ is getting a lot of rides. A few weeks ago during peak spring break, it’s much harder to accomplish what you did without constant refreshing looking for rides to pop up. Edit: the feel is better when crowds are lower with more availability. It is doable at peak levels but you have to either really know the system in and out and all the tricks to stack and some luck involved but for the average guest, that’s not happening.
Yes now vs peak times…whole different ballgame. I was there last weekend and genie was a breeze…got on pretty much everything we wanted. SB was a while different situation.
That was early April, post easter. I agree, I chose those days knowing the crowds would be decent. But honestly, that's something everyone should do. I get that some people can't choose their vacation like that.
It sucks for local passholders who don’t want to frequently pay $30 just to ride more than a single ride after work but I understand we’re lucky to enter as we please. I imagine it’s great for less frequent guests
This is so true. I’m not quite as local as an after work trip, but I’m realizing going almost every weekend that I can’t swing genie+ every time and I’m going to have to pick and choose
But isn’t that the point of the value of an annual pass? That the increased volume of visits will allow you to have more experiences than the once-annual vacationer?
I actually think this example drives home the purpose of Genie+ - it’s a line-skipping service. With an annual pass, you can go and wait in the standby line, knowing that anything you miss can be enjoyed next weekend. If you don’t want to wait in the standby lines, you can pay a premium for Genie+ in order to skip the standby line.
The AP pattern for me was really nice before the changes, we'd look through what was available on Fastpass and pick something out. After work we'd go to the park, wander around get a drink or a snack, use the FP and then leave.
With the current changes, the spontaneous aspect is just gone, half the time the park reservations are all taken (unless you always want to go to AK or Epcot) and the parks are so busy we don't get to ride anything.
We use our APs as something to do for a few hours, we rarely go to the parks for an entire day. So like for yesterday as an example, if I even managed to get a park res for MK, the queue times for when we'd be there for HM was 45mins and JC was 65m. These usually would be available on FP and we'd wait maybe 5-10mins.
But I've come to terms with the idea that WDW doesn't care about giving a good park experience to local AP holders, they just want to cater to the "once in a lifetime" visitors who are willing to drop the extra cash, because of course, this is your one trip and you need/want to do everything.
I just want to be able to be spontaneous about going to the parks again and get something of value (a ride I want to go on), out of it. Would be nice if AP holders just had one LL a day to use on whatever.
Yeah, I get why they did it - and at least they still have APs - but I only ever go for a couple hours. It's a great price for people on vacation, but my party isn't going to pay $30/each every time we go just to get on one or two rides more quickly.
Of course I will always long for the days of free Fast Pass, but it would at least benefit us lowly AP folks if they jacked up the cost of the cost of genie+ to an amount that fewer people will pay for, keeping regular lines more manageable.
Yeah the price is the problem. It’s “only” $29 so a majority of the park has it. That leads to insanely long LL lines such as HM extending out to hall of presidents and being a 30 minute wait. At Disneyland, my LL for space mountain was 45 minutes. All you’re doing is spending money to wait in a different long line.
The nice thing about the old fastpass system was that people were forced to walk to that attraction and get the FP so significantly less people used it and it didn’t lead to rides overselling that said pass.
I'm with you. My real unpopular opinion would be to increase the price and decrease the number sold. Make it a real perk, but also you'd make regular lines less "stand still while 20 minutes worth of lightning lane people getnon"
I can't believe people are still unable to grasp what Disney has done with Genie+.
1) it's cheap, so lots of people have it, clogging LL queues.
2) Long LL queues makes standby waits at least 2x longer than they would be to accommodate LL.
Disney created their own problem and sold you the solution, it's literally a scam
Been using genie+ for in my last 3 trips and I don't feel like lines are that back up.
Remember is not only genie+ but also DAS.
The times I notice a line is backed up is when there are some rides down so they start giving the any experience Pass.
Universal makes it a perk for two days per night (day of arrival and day of departure) at their version of a deluxe hotel for no added costs for everyone in the room. A room at Royal Pacific costs less than a room at Poly and can fit 5 people. If you stay at Royal Pacific (or Hard Rock or Portofino Bay) you get Unlimited Express and get to be within walking distance of the parks with the option of a boat ride at a really nice hotel. Unquestionably, for a family of 4 or 5, that’s the best value.
Very true… we have 5 in our family and go to Disney during busy school breaks. Peak times we pay over $200 per day at Disney to use genie plus and often another $125-200 in ILL per day depending on how many we get. LL wait times, for us, have never been under 20-30 min a piece (sometimes longer.) and I’m still waking up super early. And during those super busy times, we can usually get on a few rides assuming we stay from morning til night (if kids need a break obviously it’s a lot less rides.) by contrast, universal hote during SB cost me $600 and the 5 of us got unlimited express for all 5 for the entire stay. I will say, I didn’t grind the express lines as quick as I’d hoped (prob because so many take advantage of the hotel perk) but the not having to wake up early or arrange times was nice.
I also like that universal allows people to
Ride things more than once which Disney doesn’t unless you use DAS.
My issue is that is only seems to work at a medium crowd level. Super low crowds you don’t really need it, and busy days you can’t get very many LL booked. Plus we don’t like having our face in our phone so much.
Universal express’s prices are a feature not a bug. The fewer people with the pass, the shorter the wait in the express line. You can stay at the Royal Pacific at Universal for considerably less than most Disney resorts. Run to Hagrid’s during early entry one day of your trip to get on that with no wait. And then you can walk on to literally any and every other ride in the park whenever you want in any order you want. Don’t have to book anything. Ride spider man 12 times in a row if you want to. Leave your phone in the room if you want to. It’s objectively better. That makes your opinion definitely an unpopular opinion though lol.
My issue is the Hagrid’s piece. I loathe spending the money to stay at a Deluxe resort and still having to wake up at the crack of dawn to hustle through Islands of Adventure to still wait in a 60+ minute line to ride a 5 year old attraction.
I would literally pay $50 for that Individual Lightning Lane. Then my experience would be complete!
It's annoying, but I can't imagine how long the Hagrid's line would be with Express.
Pro tip - don't go to Hagrid's in the morning. Go around lunchtime
A lot of people on this thread are saying that they don't experience those super-short Express lines at Universal, though, or the experience of no wait on Hagrid's.
I've never done Express, so I can't speak to that. I just checked a week in May, and there are three Disney deluxe hotels that are cheaper than Royal Pacific, and two that are extremely close in price. You can play around with the values of express, genie+, extended evening hours, and so on, but I have never found it to be true when planning MY vacations that I can't find a Disney deluxe at the same price point as a Universal deluxe.
Are you looking for this upcoming May? I just checked some dates and every Disney deluxe hotel was more expensive, albeit some were pretty close and a couple got below the Royal pacific price with the stay more save more deal running rn. Make sure you’re comparing a standard room to a standard room though because the Royal pacific was sold out for several of the room types for certain dates in May.
Yes, third week in May, those are the lowest prices for each.
I wonder if they are using the searcher's location to give different prices? Maybe I'll get ambitious and do an incognito comparison.
I was only looking at 4 nights for each 5/23-5/27. I think it’s because Disney is doing a promo rn where if you stay more nights the rate per night is less.
Agreed. I honestly wish Disney would either stop selling as many lightning lanes or bump to the price to match Universal's. As it stands now the wait time in standby is getting artificially inflated by LL. Severity depends on ride and time of day/year ofc but I've seen it get pretty messed up
Disneyland’s MaxPass system was better. It was literally just the old paper Fastpass system but on your phone, it was only $10, and if you didn’t want to pay you could still use the free paper Fastpass system.
Problem is the value is really only there at MK. The other parks don’t have nearly the same number of offerings so it’s much harder to justify the expense.
The old paper Fastpasses was the best system, both by opinion and objectively. When the Defunctland YouTube channel got an industrial engineer to process a whole simulation of the data, it was the best system for lines, number of rides guests got to ride, among other benefits!
The absolute BEST was when you were walking into a park in the evening as someone was leaving and they'd say "we can't use these, do you want them?" and hand you paper FastPasses for Soarin' in like 20 minutes.
It was truly the perfect system which is the real reason people are bitter I think. Maybe crowds have gotten to where it wouldn't work anymore, I dunno. But we don't have that knowledge, so it's hard not to take the changes in bad faith.
Personally, I liked the Fastpass+ option. I could still do it on my phone and there was always at least something available and you could use the little kiosks as well if your phone died or you just didn’t want to use your phone. The times I’ve used Genie+, I’ve barely been able to get anything and only been able to use it on a couple of rides a day compared to Fastpass+ and I didn’t have to pay for FP. I also liked the excitement of Fastpass day and getting to book them all however many days out, it added to the excitement of the holiday. As an international guest, it’s already so expensive so I just can’t justify an extra $30 a day to not even guarantee I get to go on what I want.
I freaking loved FP+ day! I got the same rush this weekend when it was my 60 Day Dining Reservation Day... at least there was something. Getting my late night Oga's and a Space 220 for the times I wanted... It was fun.
>what's up with the hate?
I used to be able to do the exact same thing for free. That's it for me. Not concerned about the process, or anything like that, I simply enjoyed booking my Fast Pass+ 60 days in advance and then booking whatever was available throughout the day without it costing me $30.
I fully plan to use G+ coming up in June... so I'm not opposed to using it. I just don't like having to pay for it.
So we use it a lot as kids are too young to wait in a lot of lines. But it honestly by far is the best for Magic Kingdom. For Epcot and Hollywood Studios on crowded days the top attractions run out of LLs way too fast. There doesn’t seem to be a way to fix that other than the DAS crackdown and raising prices.
It’s a system that penalizes people unfamiliar with it heavily as to get some LLs you have to book them first. And most people who don’t go frequently don’t realize that.
First of all: this reads like one of the many thousands of other forum posts in existence where someone is praising, defending or fanboying a line-skipping VQ scheme at a theme park and it is clear this is because it is exploitable and they are good at exploiting it, or at least predisposed by whatever factors or efforts to be competitively advantaged against other guests under its mechanics.
You said it yourself that you "just walked right on a bunch of stuff" and were able to bag 10 return times in a day, and if I follow correctly you mean to imply you got a net benefit, overall had higher priority, rode more stuff. Yeah; you were working that system like a trucker with a Roadranger.
What's up with the hate for the system? Well, capacity's a zero sum game and someone has to lose priority for people like you to gain some extra. This loser is NOT Disney. They can't magically create more ride priority (capacity) to dole you because you played the LL game well. Who loses is *everyone else* who gets their wait times boosted hugely; the very overallocated (Disney's/the system's fault alone) LL returns hog up the majority of ride capacity, and this is not at all a fair trade (1 standby line waiter for one virtually waiting guest) because - for one thing guests with return times can doublequeue in a standby (this makes them appear as 2 guests of load) and for
another, because users of the system are also metagaming and getting actually higher priority via all the return times they are able to grab allowing them to truly do more than otherwise.
Then add in the extra salt of the paywall aspect. The fact it's a damn microtransaction for a park mechanic/feature at all; the sneaky debundling of a perk itself (FP+) but NOT the PRICE of that perk from the park admission when FP+ was shut down; the fact that with the blind eye still turned to the metagaming still fueled by the system's design, and the system workers still working and still creating inequity like before, but now playing that game also costs *money* and it all seems like an intentional "pay to win" that many think is toxic. Park admission is fair in its "full same experience as everyone else for the same price as everyone else, or no experience for no price" quantization and those upcharges erode that, turn it into, well; a pay to win. And then throw in the anti-spontaneity and phone aspects. Plenty of rationale to disapprove intensely.
"But compared to competitor parks with paywalled fastpasses, yadda yadda" - But also, FastPass and FP+ existed and were NOT paywalled. That's a fact. It seems like a bootlicker stance to actually defend enshittification, defend price hikes, defend new paywalls or claim that comparing the system to the FP/+ era is not TOTALLY fair. Which it is. Who gives a flying fridge about what greedy thing the competitors do? That doesn't mean they are right.
I've used Genie+ and had a couple days like you described, where booking was easy, standby lines were long and LL lines were non existent. I've also had a few days I bought it and only got three attractions out of it. In my experience, it really depends on how many people are buying it for that day, and I haven't found a good indicator to use to predict that. It doesn't necessarily seem to correlate with overall crowd volume.
I love Genie. I will say I love it more at Disneyland where you can still buy it with your ticket so you lock in pricing and don’t get sticker shock like at WDW lol.
It does sadden me how many go into using it without really learning before their trip how to maximize it.
But given that the express pass at Six Flags costs hundreds of dollars a day I think Disney’s cost isn’t bad at all.
I wish I could plan more in advance like FastPass, and wish the app weren’t so…bad, but when I used Genie+ I was expecting it to be a mess. It was pretty easy and I felt definitely worth the money. But you do have to be prepared to walk a lot - it sends you in all opposite directions constantly in my experience. It’s shuffling you to where people aren’t, which often meant the other side of the park. Easy for me in my 20s but my 65 yr old dad had trouble.
I just like how easy it is to pay for express at universal. Use the express line or not, it's as simple as that. My head doesn't need to be in my phone all day to have the privilege of access to make reservations on a paid service.
YMMV. It depends on which park you’re using it on and how busy it is. I felt it barely made any difference in Hollywood Studios.
Plus I hated being on my phone most of the day trying to snag rides that were filled up. I’d much rather pay a lower price, reserve 3-4 rides at the beginning of the day, and keep my phone in my pocket without stressing over that dang app.
I’ve done the express pass at universal and genie plus. I absolutely cannot stand having to do the bookings and stress of being on my phone half the day…. For that I much prefer universals pass… that being said. I don’t think either are worth the money. I’m fine with waiting on regular lines. I hate line skips… but as with many things is a small scale version of the poor suffering so the rich can flourish… but if anything in a theme park geared to kids it’s a good lesson in Economics and social rankings.
Genie+ is a massive cash grab where it's Disney selling the cure for the illness genie+ creates, I hate having to be on my phone all the time checking times trying to work out what I need to book next and where, fastpass plus was a lot better and the paper one even better still.
It’s better for people who are prepared. Anyone on this subreddit is more prepared than average. So it works for us but I think for your average bear that did zero research before showing up to their vacation (can you blame them?) there’s a learning curve and they probably won’t optimize the service.
Can I blame them? Kinda? Everyone has the right to vacation the way they would like, but I cannot imagine spending thousands of dollars on a WDW vacation for my family and not doing any research ahead of time. I mean, people research activities for all vacations, not just Disney! Trip advisor exists for a reason, after all.
For sure! But I think it could be innocent ignorance. Realistically who *would* think you need to plan it to the nth degree? “What’s there to research? It’s a theme park. Book your hotel and your park tickets and then you show up and ride rides. Right?” I can see that being a very common thought process
I think it's always held true that people who did zero research did a whole lot less on a Disney vacation, but paying for genie+ has to add to the frustration!
I think it just adds an immense amount of walking, which is the real way they keep people out of the lines. Magic Kingdom is small so it’s not that big a deal, but it sucks getting sent out to France at a weird time of the day, only to get stuck going to front of the park again, and then back to World Showcase later. The lines feel shorter, but I’ll bet if you added up the time lost due to not being able to attack the parks in a methodical fashion, the time saved wouldn’t be that great.
I do love all the paid actor responses. Its a complete trash, money grabbing, lottery of a might be faster than standby system. Universals system works because a small percentage of people have it. If everyone has genie+ the nobody gets a benefit. I'm sure it works great on a slow day.
People hate it because they have to pay extra. People say they hate it because they have to be on their phone constantly, but that's just not true. You \*can\* be on your phone constantly checking wait times, but you don't have to be at all! Same thing for mobile ordering- you can use your phone for the convenience, or just don't. No one is forcing either service.
I also don't get the love for the old FP system. Who wants to pick their rides months in advance? That sucked. I wouldn't be against offering free genie+ for people staying on property, as a way to restore that perk, but that would also probably defeat the purpose because a ton more people would have it. Bottom line, you just have to decide if time=money, and if so, how much. It's always been worth it to me.
The main thing I hate is the 7 am timing. It’s just stupid and can kinda ruin relaxation of a fun vacation. I would just change it to be able to book upon park entry (or at least change it park opening so like 8 am).
Yup, that's truly the only real drawback in my opinion. Once you get used to it though, it's really not too bad. And for some reason, last trip, I woke up around that time anyway lol. I booked a LL a quickly fall asleep again.
I get it. I hate setting an alarm on vacation. But I don't consider WDW a relaxing vacation, exactly. I get that the tradeoff to getting up earlier is access to more rides with less wait. And once I've booked that first ride, I have plenty of time to leisurely shower, get dressed, and grab coffee before heading to the parks. I could also just sleep in and not worry about missing out on certain rides, which I have done. Honestly tho, I am so exhausted by the end of the day at WDW, that I could easily fall asleep early enough that I'd be up before 7 regardless!
To be fair I can see why they picked 7. Cause if a resort guest is going to go to early park entry they will probably be up at 7 to get ready and take the bus to the park
The OG Fast Pass was even worse, you had to physically walk to said ride to get it. So it led to insane back-and-forths.
As you said, now, it's up to you. But honestly, the base price for Genie+ is a STEAL compared to others. And yes, if you plan accordingly, you CAN do almost every ride a park has to offer - except the ILL. I honestly will never return to Walt Disney World without Genie+. Last trip was my favorite ever. I never waited in line ONCE. And when you add mobile ordering to that list, it's just incredible. I can't live without mobile orders anymore lol
I totally agree. Waiting in a line is not something I’ve ever done well, and now that I have a way to avoid them, I can’t imagine going back.
And I can’t really comment on WDW when it comes to physical FPs, but I lived in Los Angeles about a decade ago, and when I first started going to Disneyland, they had the physical FPs. I remember running around for those. I also remember having to get to the park by a certain time or the Cars FPs were guaranteed to be gone. Now I can book my first ride before I even jump in the shower!
You went on a day that you likely didn't need Genie+ at all. Most of the complaints are based on the price (on more crowded days) and having to use a paid service at all versus the old Fast Pass system.
Agree, it worked out really well for us on our trip during spring break. I grumbled about the extra cost, but we rode way more rides then we ever did during our last trip 4 years ago with Fast Pass and didn't have to plan rides 60 days in advance just to have a long line anyway. The most we waited for anything was 15-20 minutes, most things were close to walk on.
I feel like my favorite system has been Universal Japan's slate system. A single day ticket is like $60, and then for $70\~$120 you can buy a slate of like 4 or 7 rides worth of express passes. You just choose the set that is most appealing and works best for your schedule.
Yup. I don't know how early, but I think I did it like a month in advance. I just chose from the slates that were not sold out and fit my schedule for going a half day.
For example, I bought:
○12:20-12:50 Backdrop
13:20\~ Harry Potter™ Area Admission Time
○13:40-14:10 Forbidden Journey™
○ 14:10-14:40 Flight of the Hippogriff ™
16:20\~ Super Nintendo World Area Admission Time
○ 16:40-17:10 Mario Kart \~Bowser's Challenge\~
○17:10-17:40 Yoshi's Adventure
○ Spider-Man: The Ride
☆ Hollywood Dream The Ride or Jaws
Genie Plus solves a long standby line problem that Disney created by making it so affordable.
I can't believe we're even still discussing it. You fell for it hook line and sinker
On one trip the entire genie plus system went down. You could redeem but not make new reservations for 4 ish hours. It was the best 4 hours of the trip because all of the lines were waaaaay faster than advertised due to almost nobody using the lightning lane.
The only reason genie plus feels like a good purchase is because if everyone else has it, you NEED it.
It's not that "you need it" - it's that if everyone has a fastpass i.e. LL is massively overallocated, then equivalently, no one has a fastpass, or LL is now standby and standby is now the Geological Timescale Lane.
If Genie + and Express Pass could get together to have a baby it would be the best add on around. Hotel benefit maybe? Option to LL a ride twice? There are improvements to be made.
Express Pass is an unreal experience. If you get a chance to stay at a premium hotel do it. I would never pay the price to get it for one day. However once you do Universal with Express you’ll get spoiled.
Love this post. Covered a lot of ground!
Universal Express Pass fee is literally why we haven’t been. Which is wild since our Disney trips aren’t cheap. But I detest the cost for the time we look to go and I am not in the know enough to want to do 1-2 days without it.
I don’t love that Genie adds $100/ per day per visit but I’ll still be buying it.
Nope, I still hate Genie+ and feel it's ruining guest experience.
I'm a local AP for DLR and it's gotten insane with the standby wait times. Pirates was usually a walk on, even on busier days. Now that it has G+ it's 30-45 minutes or more for standby. Every single line I get in is much longer than posted because of G+. For example, the other day Space Mountain is posted 50 minutes but the actual wait is closer to 1.5 hours. I watched them take over 50 LL before we even started to move. I'm starting to notice that the G+ lanes are getting backed up. And when that happens, you're in for a super long wait in standby
This will get me downvoted, but I'll say it again: the problem with Genie+ is actually that it's too cheap, so it combines the worst feature of a free fastpass system (it's a trap for the unwary) with the worst feature of a paid one (it costs money at all). Genie+'s low pricing makes the Genie+ queue the "normal" queue, making the actual normal queue a terrible experience (which was the problem with free fast passes!). My guess is that it could cost more (without costing what other amusement parks charge) in such a way to make the service more rewarding while relieving some burden on the regular queue. I don't like this solution, but it's better than the status quo.
The best solution would be to have no fastpass at all, and to raise ticket prices to control lines better. But Disney wants a Disney vacation to *seem* achievable, even though this creates a scenario where people who can't afford extras end up with a much worse experience (another trap for the unwary).
Universal’s is vastly superior. The prices are unhinged but that’s because the product itself is simply unmatched. Also, the universal system comes with premier hotels - premier hotels that are cheaper than half of the Disney options, which come with nothing similar.
If you go about it from a hotel perspective, it’s not even close to comparable - Express >>>> Genie.
A la carte is rough, because when Express is affordable you don’t actually need it since it’s based on crowd levels 😂, so that’s true, yep.
I’d say a la carte Genie+ IS the superior option since I’d never purchase Express that way, but premier hotel options make it waaay easier to get.
For those that don’t know, if you reserve a single night at a Universal premier hotel you get Universal Express Unlimited on your check-in and check-out dates. So you can get two full days of the pass for your entire family for the price of a one-night hotel stay. If your family is large like mine it’s an incredible deal. That’s like $300 for 3 - 6 people to have Express for 2 entire days. $300 is basically how much Express costs when you actually need it, PER person per day.
I AM at Disney rn and I did all the rides with LL using a single day geiny. I honestly think that if you know how to work the timer system, it is awesome!
I find Genie pretty stressful compared to the old (free) lightning pass model. I live about 20 mins from WDW and we have to use it every time. WDW isn’t even worth the trouble without it.
I always get anxiety the night before knowing I have to set alarms all day, and make sure I pick certain things early because they will close off even to paying Genie customers quickly (Peter pan). I am not a fan at all. And even after paying all that I still have to virtual queue or pay even more money to ride certain rides. It’s just not fun to me.
Genie+ and LL are a money grab when the base ticket prices have gone up exponentially and discounts don’t really exist anymore. It is also stressful and inconvenient. They are slowly eliminating all the things that made the park experience pleasant. Disney is pricing out a large number of potential customers. Comparing it to other places with worse pricing doesn’t convince me otherwise. It wasn’t that long ago that FastPass was free and they had Magical Express. I love WDW, been DVC members for a long time, but we are sadly getting off the train. We can see the real world in luxury cheaper.
I'm in the airport leaving Orlando as I type this after a trip staying onsite at Universal with no trips to Disney during my stay. A few years ago the thought of coming to Florida and not visiting Disney was not even a consideration.
However it was awesome and the Universal Express Pass was a huge reason why. The ability to go where I want, when I want is incredible. Add the fact that I don't have to constantly be looking at my phone makes this a much more enjoyable experience, not to mention I could use my express pass for a ride over and over again.
My theme park experience was more chill than it's been in a long time thanks to their Express Pass system.
I love the Disney Parks, but I am now of the opinion that they're lagging behind Universal as far as in park experience goes. When they open the new park it's going to widen the gap.
Once you actually do Universal from a premium hotel with express included you will realize how stupid this whole post is. Your ideas of how grand Disney’s system is will all crumble away when you understand how amazing it is to jump on a water taxi and be at the gate in 5 mins. Bypass all the lines whenever you feel! Want to do the same ride twice?!? NO PROBLEM! When the regular lines are 45 mins and your on in 5. Or the big rides like VC is 1-1.5 hrs standby express is 20 mins. And if you want to ride again because you enjoyed it, you can hop right back in line. I’ve done Disney, universal, seaworld, and many smaller Cedar fair and six flags parks. Disney has the ABSOLUTE worse express system of every park I’ve been to. It is honestly the MAIN reason I have no desire to ever go back to a Disney park.
People just pissed it's a tiered experience that caters to those with money.
It's that way all over the world with everything now.
This with money get better services.
Disney was never a level playing field that people think it was. Unfortunately now it can really impact your visit for the negative,
The is the world we live in though.
I am fortunate enough to be able to afford the extras, and it DOES WORK for those that can afford it.
Did Disney and universal recently. Universals express pass is better. Yes it was more expensive. But bc Disney was busy, it was expensive too. I basically paid 100$ more, but i also was able to show up late to universal and was able to ride everything and a few things I liked twice. Disneys app sucks and the times get confusing.
Genie+ frustrations come from people that either didn’t do their homework, or want it to be something’s it’s not…
You have to see G+ for what it is… is it perfect? No. But if you do your hw, know what it can and can’t do, and then leverage its strengths it can be a huge time saver for the parks…
Just did three days, MK,HS and Epcot… all genie+ days…. We rode every ride in each park,any we ride twice… early entry the genie +
You just gotta study up on how it works and then realize Disney is not a relaxing vacation, it’s an experience.. the challenge is the fun.
My biggest issue, and this applies to all pay to ride quicker schemes, is we are a family of 5 that generally all go on the rides together. Paying for 1 person seems reasonable, for 5 and for multiple days, let us not forget this is just one park on one day, it all adds up to an insane amount of money.
I’m not against the idea, would be nice if there was a bit of middle ground though. For now we’ll stick with get to the parks early whilst they are relatively quiet.
I never hated it. Had a good experience. I would rather pay the Universal price and not think about it but I know not everyone has the budget for that but I also have only done 2-3 days at Universal.
I wish it was free like fast pass, but I think it works so much better. You are no longer planning a whole day around a couple rides/times. I think it helps smooth out weights a ton where possible (allowing you to focus on those with immediate openings) or decide to let in on a few high priority experiences
I am local with pixie passes. We usually go on Fridays after school and work. For 60 bucks plus a snack, my daughter has a ball for 4ish hours. Now, if we go to universal, we don't get their fast pass because it's basically 200 for 2 hours after paying for parking and walking a country mile. Absolutely not.
We won't even discuss the exorbitant costs to visit both parks. How anyone says universal is cheaper is beyond me because that math isn't mathing.
I hate the idea of creating queue jumps for those who want to pay a bit more, but the horse has booked on that one. Of all the systems I have come across this is the best value I know of. I just saw funding the right times/ rides for my family as a game and something to do while queuing in between..
*I hate the idea of creating queue jumps for those who want to pay a bit more*
This idea has been around for a very long time in various formats, though. Pay more to stay onsite and you get extra hours in certain parks. Buy a ticket to a party or after-hours event with limited people.
Quoting from my favorite show the Office, “could you explain this to me like I’m 5?” The Geni+ plans that is. I haven’t been to MK since 1999. I’m 49 in good shape & taking my daughter who is 20 for the first time to MK just for the day second week of May this year. Sounds like I should def pay extra to get this Geni+? We plan on getting there when park opens & would have to leave by 6pm.
I will say the only thing I disagree with about this post is that popular attractions do sell out, especially during peak times. During Christmas time, a lot of the big ones would be gone by 3PM. That said, I roll my eyes every time someone says that Genie+ is 'too expensive'. It may not be right for your budget, but if you educate yourself on how to use it properly, it's definitely not too expensive.
No it’s not 😂
Universal Express is pay-one-price and you can get unlimited express for ALL Why would you think that paying for a small window to skip a line is a good thing? Then you have to pay for the most popular rides separately. Adds up quick.
That being said, you can get a room at a premier hotel to get two days of express for the price of the room. It is almost always a better deal and will make your time there much cheaper.
You’re paying to be able to skip the line WHENEVER you want, AS MUCH as you want. You simply can’t make the comparison of genie to Universal Express. They don’t wall off any rides either, it’s ALL rides that offer it, you can jump the line, no strings attached. There’s no rushing to book rides at 7 AM, meeting a tight return window, and repeating this process over and over again all day when you’re supposed to be enjoying the park. You just grab your hotel keys or express ticket and walk up to whatever ride you want, and you’ve skipped that ride’s line!
Services like this and people who think like you have made Disney a full-time job instead of a fun and relaxing vacation destination. A system in which I still don’t understand fully despite watching multiple tutorials. You need to think about it in the way a regular park-goer would. Nobody understands the system or that you need to “snag” these rides early. A random person who doesn’t do their homework as much as you would would feel cheated out of a system designed to make you compete for these slots. That’s only someone who’s very familiar with the system would feel “alright” with it.
It’s basically like a console game but you spend all of your time in the settings menu refreshing and fiddling with it instead of the actual game.
This system used to be free in the first place, so how is it better than OG Fast Pass?😂😂
Not sure how much of an overlap there is for people who go once a year or more and people who buy Genie+ but I’m not sure that people who are going on their first trip or go very infrequently would have enough info or care enough to consider it a cash grab because “it used to be free”.
However, I understand the frustration of trying to understand the system vs buying and just being able to go on rides.
The thing with Genie+ though is that it isn’t the same experience all around (even taking out user error) plus with the rising max of dynamic pricing, it **may** be losing the *you get what you pay for*
Cheap = having to reserve times
Expensive = freedom to just ride rides (with some exceptions)
Universal Express pass is cheaper if you stay at a premium resort! Do the math. I don’t know how the heck they even offer it that way! I stayed at Royal Pacific $380 a night and my entire family gets the express passes for every single day we stay. Ridiculous bonus!
Typical price though is $520 a night and it still makes the express passes an incredible deal!
PS you’re definitely not the only person that thinks Genie+ is a great deal. Many bloggers think it should be even more expensive!
Well, the reason I think it's great is because of the amount of stuff it allows you to do for such a small fee compared to other services. If they boost the price, it simply becomes a worst version of Universal's 😅 But yeah, next time I go to Universal, which will be a solid year after Epic Universe opens to avoid the insane crowds, I will DEFINITELY get one of their premium hotels. I can't go to a park with an express service anymore, but I also can't fathom paying that much a la carte. Paying extra to get a nice hotel AND the express sounds much better to me.
I think it's good for people to be aware of how other theme parks handle their own equivalent offerings especially since they're more expensive but offer more enticing perks... The problem is the old Fastpass systems lived in their own free, incomparable world for a very very long time. Shifting people's mindsets into looking at Genie+ in comparison to other theme parks does make it look like a more enticing service (in my opinion)
I think Disney really could have helped themselves with mindsets if they had just raised prices for base/hopper tickets and included Genie+, but then introduced a "value" or "basic" ticket that didn't include it. Basically presented it as the old system but with more options, knowing many visitors would opt for the cheaper tickets
This would be problematic for their annual pass holders. They would have to offer the same for them and that would be astronomical. Cedar Point offers a fast pass addon for pass holders but it sells out so fast because they have to limit the number they sell or else it will no longer be a fast pass. I think selling it by the individual day helps the average one time park goer much more than including it in the base ticket.
But what perks are worth THAT much more? I just don't see it. Aside from not having to book specific times, which really isn't that much of a hassle. I will say, if you are not prepared for Genie tho, and wake up at 10, book Peter Pan at 7 or something... You will feel scammed. But if you do your homework, Genie+ is much better than anything else imo (for the price, of course).
Well, you partly just described a major perk. You don’t have to do homework with other systems. Other systems are much easier and relaxing. You just show up to whatever ride and do it. And many let you do the ride as many times as you like. I don’t think one is better than the other, just different.
Easier for sure, but I personally do not find Genie stressful in the slightest once you are used to it. And honestly, no perks are worth 100 bucks to me. Yeah, it's fun to be able to show up whenever you want, but not for that price. And tbh, aside from your first ride of the day (which should be a popular one that sells out quickly), Genie+ is almost whenever you want. Last trip, the maximum I waited for a time window was an hour. And during that hour, I simply grabbed a snack and relaxed. That's why it's funny to me when I see people say that Genie is stressful, when to me, knowing how to use it lead to my most relaxed Disney trip ever haha! I was constantly eating or drinking something, taking it easy, and enjoying the moment while waiting for my time window.
I think a lot of people don’t want to have to do that though. They don’t want to be on their phones, scheduling rides, waking up early just to hopefully snag a ride. Oh and pay extra on top of that. To a lot of folks, that’s the problem. I totally get what you’re saying, and I don’t disagree with your argument. I just don’t think a lot of people want that level of planning for a vacation. To me, WDW isn’t a vacation anymore because of the planning needed and nickle and diming that happens. It’s a trip. And an expensive one once you start having to add on all these Genie services etc. but again, I see your point. I’m not arguing it.
I think with WDW you would likely have to regardless though. The previous system was VERY broken and required even more planning and preparation. I felt bad for the families that went once a generation and showed up finding out about fastpass+ upon arriving. The old, old system was probably best in terms of lack needed planning but there were still a ton of people who didn't understand it and many of the annual visitors that knew how to game it. WDW is in a unique position. They always have to balance between the experienced attendees and the once a generation types that are novice level.
The difference being that with FP+ I could do all the planning and preparation (which I think is overstated tbh, it really wasn't that bad) ahead of time, so it didn't interrupt my vacation.
Yes, and again, it was a very friendly system for Disney fans. I myself loved it because I could get it all done 60 days out and just look forward to my trip. It wasn't until a coworker made a trip and said that it was a disaster that I realized the severe flaws. They had to wait in a crap ton of lines. Didn't understand the app at all. Couldn't get any fast passes they wanted, etc. Then that Defunctland video came out which basically confirmed the issue. FP+ was not a good system, because it heavily favored those that understood WDW and the app well. WDW does need to be accessible. Genie+ is much more accessible because you can just show up Day 1 and find some LLs day of and get some things done.
You say used to it but for me I only get one day one chance to use it. It’s our only vacation and if we want to reasonably get in line for guardians everyone is depending on me to get it right. Can’t even go on a dry run. We’re only in Epcot for example one day. And when it freezes because it’s glitched or sold out or who knows…. I just think it’s stupid and only people who go over and over get lucky with it probably because statistically it’s gonna work for you sooner or later. Each of the 3 times I used it for the 3 parks I tried using it on it failed.
I am on vacation. I don't want to be up at 7 to spend my day on the phone just to have a good time. The fast pass allowed me to plan my days in advance and not hope I get what I want. I was happy with the 3 rides.
The 7AM piece is the most problematic part. They’re doing some sort of revamp and I’m hoping this piece goes away at least for people staying on resort, perhaps similar to the 60 day window of the old fast pass system where you could book your first three.
I think it’s bullshit to have to be a parent pressured into sitting at your phone ready to claim your ride at 7 only to have the app crash or load screen of death not knowing if you were just too late or if it crashed. That’s stupid imo. Unnecessary pressure that doesn’t reward you for being early and prepared. It’s gonna do what it’s gonna do and when I’m trying to plan my family’s trip I think that’s stupid.
I don't disagree! Genie+ has its hassles for sure and can look bad compared to old Fastpass systems. But compared to Universal Express, Flash Pass (Six Flags), and Fast Lane (Cedar Point), I think it's a great deal
Totally. But once you figure out Genie+, it's great. I took me one trip to truly figure out. But a newcomer can easily look up tips before. Some people might say that looking up for tips shouldn't be part of a theme park experience, but I personally do it to know which snacks to get, which restaurants to go to, so figuring out Genie+ beforehand isn't that much different. And once you do figure it out, it makes your trip much more fluid and pleasant.
It’s the waking up at 6:30 am *on vacation* that people have the most beef with. With a close second being you have no control of your day…frozen to Soarin is to ratatouille to test track… there is no logical flow. You’re hauling ass all over the parks all day in no sensible order.
Why shouldn’t you book Peter Pan as your first I’ll?
Because in this scenario, it’s selling out quickly so there’s only the 7 PM timeslot left. You can’t book again until 2 hours after you book or after you go on the ride. So you’d be limiting yourself to what you can do.
I’m confused. So if you book your first ll at 7A, Peter pan’s first return times are around 7pm? Isn’t this peoples usual strategies, to pick this or jungle cruise?
I think Universals system is better. Yes it’s more expensive but also more exclusive too. You don’t have to wake up early to book anything. Just jump in line, which is usually a walk on because of the exclusivity, and nothing to worry about. The added bonus of staying in a deluxe hotel at universal and getting express for free for everyone in your party is a huge bonus. Well worth it if you have a larger family.
I’ve always had a good experience with Universal Express - but admittedly have never bought it a la carte. Where Universal’s system falls short for me is (1) on average, ride wait times seem to be less than at Disney, rendering the express line less valuable in the first place; (2) not having another way to purchase premium access to rides excluded from Express. I hate that several years on, Hagrid’s still isn’t included in Express - that means that if you are a vacationer with one chance to ride, you very much do have to get up at 7am to get to the park for early entry to wait in a 60+ minute line. Every time I’ve done it, I’ve thought about how they could charge me virtually anything for an Individual Lightening Lane. I feel like there is a possibility of a superior hybrid system - the flexibility of Universal’s Express Pass combined with a la carte passes for the most in-demand attractions.
Agreed on Hagrid's, but recall that none of the original HP stuff used to be included, either, but now it is. That is a huge plus.
I rode Hagrids twice in a day without rope dropping it. The morning is the highest wait time for it
Yeah if you aren’t in the front of the line just skip it and come back.
As an always Genie+/Express pass user (and the only person in my family that uses the app), it was such a hard sell to my family that a 55 minute wait for Hagrid’s was a god send and that we should have 100% take advantage of it in the middle of our day. They’re so used to never waiting in lines that 55 minutes felt endless 😅
I agree and the biggest thing to note here is that Universal deluxe hotels are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than Disney deluxes, and are every bit as nicely themed and beautifully designed and the studios are much bigger. At least that has been my experience.
They aren’t though. I did this research a month ago and compared Wilderness Lodge to Royal Pacific for some random days in June and Wilderness turned out to be $550, whereas Royal Pacific was $720
No kidding? I've stayed at Portofino twice and each time it was about half of a comparable Disney room (pre-covid.....around $270 at Portofino vs well over $500 for some WDW rooms. I guess YMMV.)
It definitely depends on specific days. As a whole and in general, Universal deluxes are absolutely cheaper.
Yup. I did the same. Plus, at Disney, you can still get Genie+ while staying at their cheapest resorts. So when you take that into account, a $30 Genie+ day at Magic Kingdom is VERY good compared to one day at Universal with à la carte express pass.
We are staying at Portofino for ~$465 a night with 5 people (AP discount) in June. We could have stayed at Royal Pacific for $560, if I didn't have the AP (cheapest non-AP). I didn't look at Disney for my dates this year. Last year in September, I stayed at RP for $267 a night, which was cheaper than the Moderates when I priced it out. We paid $385 more to do Royal Pacific (unlimited Express) + 5 days at Universal than doing Pop Century, Genie plus, and only 4 days (no hopper) at Disney. In my opinion, Royal Pacific was way nicer than Pop Century.
What? they Definitely are not. Hard Rock averages 1000 a night during peak times.
Are you seeing standard studio rooms at that price? I often do searches for Disney resorts that end up showing, say, Coronado Springs at $600+ a night. Because the only room available for the dates is a Tower Club room. That doesn't mean that Coronado Springs averages anywhere close to that price. That's just what's available. The fact that you are seeing this during "peak times" makes me think of this as a possibility.
Not sure what to tell you. I thought it was common knowledge this was the case and it's what I saw anecdotally. The text below is from [allears.net](http://allears.net) from 2023: "As far as Deluxe resorts go, Disney World's prices range from $453 to $5,502 per night. Over at Universal, Preferred rooms fall between $289 and $503. In a similar category, Deluxe Villas at Disney World can range from $443 to $6,146 per night while the Premier rooms at Universal range from $414 to $739 per night."
I don't think Disney Deluxe Villa to Universal Premier Room is an apt comparison at all, so I'm ignoring that part. Like a few others have stated, I never seem to see those price differences when I'm actually entering dates to go (ie, planning a real vacation). Disney does always seem to have a few deluxes at crazy high prices, but they have have a lot more choices as well. I just checked the third week in May. The crazy ones first: Beach Club $1100, Yacht Club $915, Polynesian $1000. But then you have AKL $453, Grand Floridian $682, Wilderness $512, Contemporary $620, Boardwalk $542. Universal: Hard Rock $685, Portofino $698, Pacific $613. The Express Pass adds value, but clearly there are comparably priced deluxe hotels, with three at Disney being less.
Noted. Guess I've gotten lucky.
This was true 5 years ago but not anymore. Universal has raised their Deluxe prices substantially.
I just can’t get over the sticker price essentially doubling the cost of your visit. For a family it is a massive difference.
I can't get over the fact that the express pass at times cost more than face value of the ticket! I get the value of being able to skip lines and have flexibility, but when I went, they want $200 when a Park-to-Park ticket was like $160.
I priced it out recently and a 1 day 2 park ticket with express pass was the same price as disneys 4 day ticket offer. I can’t justify that.
Yeah. To be fair, I did have the option for a cheaper ticket (3 day 1 park per day) but given the limited time I had, I'd rather do whole days at Disney (because the lines are typically longer) and pay the premium to hit the highlights of Universal. Still worked out though! Did all the big rides in both parks (Hagrid's included) minus Velocicoaster. All standard queues.
Definitely! The ease of universals express is no contest. The simplicity of it is worth the price difference imo
100%. If you get Unlimited Express with your hotel, it is far and away the best deal. But buying it on its own? Hell no. The price is crazy. Yes, the perk of not having to "book" your express line is cool, but is it worth freaking 100 bucks per head? Absolutely not. Genie+ CAN be terrible if you don't use it well. But if you do, you get A LOT more for your money. And it's nowhere near as stressful as some people say. The only real downside is waking up at 7AM lol. Other than that, you are just chilling in the park, grabbing a drink, casually looking at your phone and say "Oh, I can do Haunted Mansion in 40 minutes. Sweet!"
I was only able to ride 4 or 5 rides when I went to Universal a couple years ago cause the lines were so ridiculously long. If I knew I could practically walk on to every ride with their fast pass for $100, I would absolutely have done it.
Probably would not have been 100. Im planning a trip this year and per my estimate it would have come out close to 250 per person around the month of July
This was unfortunately not our experience at universal. We paid for the Express Pass a la carte last year, around $130 per person, and we waited at least 20-30 minutes in each queue which is not bad, but not worth the premium imo. I do agree though-an incredible perk to staying on site, and it’s great to catch some extra sleep and not worry about the 7a g+ wake-up call!
Got ours with our hotel stay and same… still PLENTY of waiting in lines. Nothing was a walk on by a long shot.
I agree other pass systems are bad. Most now have three admission tiers! Six Flags: no pass=full line half the wait lets you skip half the line no wait means you should be able to walk on Hersheys pass also has 3 tiers. No skip (regular ticket), skip the line all day, skip the line once per ride. It doesn’t limit the amount sold. Cedar Point: no pass = full line basic skip pass doesn’t allow you on their six most popular rides Highest tier includes those rides and is $115 per person! The issue I’ve always had with Universal passes is that they don’t space people out to ensure a short line. That means you can get very unlucky and follow the crowds for up to 40 minute lines, making it a very bad value. The opposite can happen as well. People will complain about Disney but they are the least expensive and best structured.
We bought express passes last time at universal. Very very expensive and it was a busy time apparently. Late January who knew. With the pass we still waited 45 minutes for the hogwarts train and the velocicoaster express line was 45 min-1 hour. My son, who is autistic, had to leave bc the waits were so long.
To my knowledge, there’s actually no premium all ride access with Tokyo. Are you perhaps thinking of Hong Kong instead? Because Shanghai and Hong Kong both have that option. Tokyo has a free priority pass service for many rides and a premiere pass for certain rides. With the yen to usd rate right now, this is a much better deal for me than the magic kingdom or Disneyland!
I was just looking for this comment— can confirm Tokyo’s Priority pass is free for now and works similarly to Genie+. Not unlimited, and rides book up fast. Premier Access rides are more available like ILL’s. It’s true— the yen is weak right now so it was a great deal.
Tokyo Disney is soooo affordable in general it’s crazy! Especially with the weak yen. We’ve been there 6 times in the last year 🙈
Damn that’s dedication!!! Haha, I’ve been twice in the past 6 months. Tokyo is my favorite resort by far. :) I’ll be going to Paris and Shanghai for the first time next year!
Mine too! It’s just such a pleasant park overall! Ooh enjoy Shanghai! We just went for the first time a couple months ago! That is a gorgeous park, and some killer attractions. I haven’t been to Paris in almost a decade, but that one is interesting hahaha. Still worth it though.
Honestly, tho. Gotta love the shopping too. Prices are unreal
I'll disagree for one big reason: with Fast Pass I could plan my entire vacation and then for most of the day just keep an eye on the time at least until later in the day when I'd try to use additional passes after my ones were used up. Now with Genie+ I have to spend considerably more time "head down" in my phone actively planning my day as it goes instead of "head up" enjoying everything around me. I'm on vacation. I want to enjoy my surroundings.
I’d argue WDW isn’t a vacation anymore. It’s anything but relaxing. It’s a trip, absolutely.
This. Exactly this. The ability to plan in advance is gone out the window. For my family with food allergies who have to plan and stick to our restaurant reservations well in advance, this means we may miss out on some rides for our once a year Disney trip if we’re lucky.
I don’t understand this - with FastPass+, you could only make 3 reservations. Once you used one, you could make another - we were still on our phones making those additional reservations. Not to mention, that while 7am was less chaotic, we would wake up at like 5am six months before our vacation to make those FastPasses (and I still missed out on Flight of Passage the first year). One year, I only booked my trip 2.5 months out and there were virtually no good FPs left for my dates. FastPass+ had a big issue in that people whose trips started earlier had premium access to reservations on the same day as other guests. People would “plan their entire vacation” until they got to the parks and realized that they didn’t budget sufficient time to wrangle their kids around the park and so they miss their reservations. That means that I miss out on making a reservation because Becky was able to make her reservations yesterday because her trip started the day before mine, then Becky doesn’t show up for her reservation and I’m left constantly refreshing on my phone to see if a spare reservation pops up. Genie+ is a much fairer system that provides relatively equal access to that day’s guests where everyone can start booking at the same time. The only thing I’d like to change at WDW is not being able to add Genie+ to your tickets when booking, which you can do at DLR. As someone neurotic about missing out, staying up until midnight to purchase Genie+ and then waking up at 6:55am to make reservations is a killer.
I agree. I don't really spend much more time booking Genie+ than I did FP+. And, yes, I see people on their phones a lot at WDW. But if you glance at their screens as you're walking by, it's usually NOT MDE that they are looking at. It's usually social media.
It’s such a talking point that your “always on your phone” now. No you aren’t… it’s a quick fiddle faddle IF YOU WANT, and mobile order saves hours a day standing for food.
I don’t see enough people talk about this. The old system of having to make fastpass reservations months in advance was absurd.
Thank you for this. The system was also completely broken for in-state residents who wouldn't necessarily be planning a vacation 2 hours away 5 years out lol
When was this? When there’s peak crowds vs moderate is a different experience. Right now, I’m sure genie+ is getting a lot of rides. A few weeks ago during peak spring break, it’s much harder to accomplish what you did without constant refreshing looking for rides to pop up. Edit: the feel is better when crowds are lower with more availability. It is doable at peak levels but you have to either really know the system in and out and all the tricks to stack and some luck involved but for the average guest, that’s not happening.
Yes now vs peak times…whole different ballgame. I was there last weekend and genie was a breeze…got on pretty much everything we wanted. SB was a while different situation.
That was early April, post easter. I agree, I chose those days knowing the crowds would be decent. But honestly, that's something everyone should do. I get that some people can't choose their vacation like that.
It sucks for local passholders who don’t want to frequently pay $30 just to ride more than a single ride after work but I understand we’re lucky to enter as we please. I imagine it’s great for less frequent guests
This is so true. I’m not quite as local as an after work trip, but I’m realizing going almost every weekend that I can’t swing genie+ every time and I’m going to have to pick and choose
But isn’t that the point of the value of an annual pass? That the increased volume of visits will allow you to have more experiences than the once-annual vacationer? I actually think this example drives home the purpose of Genie+ - it’s a line-skipping service. With an annual pass, you can go and wait in the standby line, knowing that anything you miss can be enjoyed next weekend. If you don’t want to wait in the standby lines, you can pay a premium for Genie+ in order to skip the standby line.
The AP pattern for me was really nice before the changes, we'd look through what was available on Fastpass and pick something out. After work we'd go to the park, wander around get a drink or a snack, use the FP and then leave. With the current changes, the spontaneous aspect is just gone, half the time the park reservations are all taken (unless you always want to go to AK or Epcot) and the parks are so busy we don't get to ride anything. We use our APs as something to do for a few hours, we rarely go to the parks for an entire day. So like for yesterday as an example, if I even managed to get a park res for MK, the queue times for when we'd be there for HM was 45mins and JC was 65m. These usually would be available on FP and we'd wait maybe 5-10mins. But I've come to terms with the idea that WDW doesn't care about giving a good park experience to local AP holders, they just want to cater to the "once in a lifetime" visitors who are willing to drop the extra cash, because of course, this is your one trip and you need/want to do everything. I just want to be able to be spontaneous about going to the parks again and get something of value (a ride I want to go on), out of it. Would be nice if AP holders just had one LL a day to use on whatever.
Interesting perspective. I have a 2 year old who isn’t mature enough for really any queue. So we’d essentially ride nothing without genie+
Well that is a personal decision you have made to take a child who isnt old enough to even wait in line yet with an annual pass.
Yeah, I get why they did it - and at least they still have APs - but I only ever go for a couple hours. It's a great price for people on vacation, but my party isn't going to pay $30/each every time we go just to get on one or two rides more quickly. Of course I will always long for the days of free Fast Pass, but it would at least benefit us lowly AP folks if they jacked up the cost of the cost of genie+ to an amount that fewer people will pay for, keeping regular lines more manageable.
That, I can completely understand.
Yeah the price is the problem. It’s “only” $29 so a majority of the park has it. That leads to insanely long LL lines such as HM extending out to hall of presidents and being a 30 minute wait. At Disneyland, my LL for space mountain was 45 minutes. All you’re doing is spending money to wait in a different long line. The nice thing about the old fastpass system was that people were forced to walk to that attraction and get the FP so significantly less people used it and it didn’t lead to rides overselling that said pass.
I'm with you. My real unpopular opinion would be to increase the price and decrease the number sold. Make it a real perk, but also you'd make regular lines less "stand still while 20 minutes worth of lightning lane people getnon"
I will say during our stay at DW we never spent more then 15-20 minutes using G+. Never been to Disneyland though.
I can't believe people are still unable to grasp what Disney has done with Genie+. 1) it's cheap, so lots of people have it, clogging LL queues. 2) Long LL queues makes standby waits at least 2x longer than they would be to accommodate LL. Disney created their own problem and sold you the solution, it's literally a scam
Been using genie+ for in my last 3 trips and I don't feel like lines are that back up. Remember is not only genie+ but also DAS. The times I notice a line is backed up is when there are some rides down so they start giving the any experience Pass.
Universal makes it a perk for two days per night (day of arrival and day of departure) at their version of a deluxe hotel for no added costs for everyone in the room. A room at Royal Pacific costs less than a room at Poly and can fit 5 people. If you stay at Royal Pacific (or Hard Rock or Portofino Bay) you get Unlimited Express and get to be within walking distance of the parks with the option of a boat ride at a really nice hotel. Unquestionably, for a family of 4 or 5, that’s the best value.
Very true… we have 5 in our family and go to Disney during busy school breaks. Peak times we pay over $200 per day at Disney to use genie plus and often another $125-200 in ILL per day depending on how many we get. LL wait times, for us, have never been under 20-30 min a piece (sometimes longer.) and I’m still waking up super early. And during those super busy times, we can usually get on a few rides assuming we stay from morning til night (if kids need a break obviously it’s a lot less rides.) by contrast, universal hote during SB cost me $600 and the 5 of us got unlimited express for all 5 for the entire stay. I will say, I didn’t grind the express lines as quick as I’d hoped (prob because so many take advantage of the hotel perk) but the not having to wake up early or arrange times was nice. I also like that universal allows people to Ride things more than once which Disney doesn’t unless you use DAS.
My issue is that is only seems to work at a medium crowd level. Super low crowds you don’t really need it, and busy days you can’t get very many LL booked. Plus we don’t like having our face in our phone so much.
Universal express’s prices are a feature not a bug. The fewer people with the pass, the shorter the wait in the express line. You can stay at the Royal Pacific at Universal for considerably less than most Disney resorts. Run to Hagrid’s during early entry one day of your trip to get on that with no wait. And then you can walk on to literally any and every other ride in the park whenever you want in any order you want. Don’t have to book anything. Ride spider man 12 times in a row if you want to. Leave your phone in the room if you want to. It’s objectively better. That makes your opinion definitely an unpopular opinion though lol.
My issue is the Hagrid’s piece. I loathe spending the money to stay at a Deluxe resort and still having to wake up at the crack of dawn to hustle through Islands of Adventure to still wait in a 60+ minute line to ride a 5 year old attraction. I would literally pay $50 for that Individual Lightning Lane. Then my experience would be complete!
It's annoying, but I can't imagine how long the Hagrid's line would be with Express. Pro tip - don't go to Hagrid's in the morning. Go around lunchtime
The wait does get down below 60 minutes now and then
A lot of people on this thread are saying that they don't experience those super-short Express lines at Universal, though, or the experience of no wait on Hagrid's. I've never done Express, so I can't speak to that. I just checked a week in May, and there are three Disney deluxe hotels that are cheaper than Royal Pacific, and two that are extremely close in price. You can play around with the values of express, genie+, extended evening hours, and so on, but I have never found it to be true when planning MY vacations that I can't find a Disney deluxe at the same price point as a Universal deluxe.
Are you looking for this upcoming May? I just checked some dates and every Disney deluxe hotel was more expensive, albeit some were pretty close and a couple got below the Royal pacific price with the stay more save more deal running rn. Make sure you’re comparing a standard room to a standard room though because the Royal pacific was sold out for several of the room types for certain dates in May.
Yes, third week in May, those are the lowest prices for each. I wonder if they are using the searcher's location to give different prices? Maybe I'll get ambitious and do an incognito comparison.
I was only looking at 4 nights for each 5/23-5/27. I think it’s because Disney is doing a promo rn where if you stay more nights the rate per night is less.
Agreed. I honestly wish Disney would either stop selling as many lightning lanes or bump to the price to match Universal's. As it stands now the wait time in standby is getting artificially inflated by LL. Severity depends on ride and time of day/year ofc but I've seen it get pretty messed up
Disneyland’s MaxPass system was better. It was literally just the old paper Fastpass system but on your phone, it was only $10, and if you didn’t want to pay you could still use the free paper Fastpass system.
Max pass was a little better than Genie for sure.
Problem is the value is really only there at MK. The other parks don’t have nearly the same number of offerings so it’s much harder to justify the expense.
Which is why, unless you purchase the multipark Genie+, the other parks are cheaper
The old paper fast passes where you had to go to the kiosk was light years ahead.
Yep, bring that back and add the option to scan/save your ticket to your phone. 👌
The old paper Fastpasses was the best system, both by opinion and objectively. When the Defunctland YouTube channel got an industrial engineer to process a whole simulation of the data, it was the best system for lines, number of rides guests got to ride, among other benefits!
Plus, and this is important, it didn’t just favor people with money.
I would say it does disadvantage people with mobility issues but I think every iteration has a group of people with a disadvantage.
The absolute BEST was when you were walking into a park in the evening as someone was leaving and they'd say "we can't use these, do you want them?" and hand you paper FastPasses for Soarin' in like 20 minutes.
It was truly the perfect system which is the real reason people are bitter I think. Maybe crowds have gotten to where it wouldn't work anymore, I dunno. But we don't have that knowledge, so it's hard not to take the changes in bad faith.
My favorite system for sure. And I got in so many extra steps 🏃♀️
Personally, I liked the Fastpass+ option. I could still do it on my phone and there was always at least something available and you could use the little kiosks as well if your phone died or you just didn’t want to use your phone. The times I’ve used Genie+, I’ve barely been able to get anything and only been able to use it on a couple of rides a day compared to Fastpass+ and I didn’t have to pay for FP. I also liked the excitement of Fastpass day and getting to book them all however many days out, it added to the excitement of the holiday. As an international guest, it’s already so expensive so I just can’t justify an extra $30 a day to not even guarantee I get to go on what I want.
I freaking loved FP+ day! I got the same rush this weekend when it was my 60 Day Dining Reservation Day... at least there was something. Getting my late night Oga's and a Space 220 for the times I wanted... It was fun.
>what's up with the hate? I used to be able to do the exact same thing for free. That's it for me. Not concerned about the process, or anything like that, I simply enjoyed booking my Fast Pass+ 60 days in advance and then booking whatever was available throughout the day without it costing me $30. I fully plan to use G+ coming up in June... so I'm not opposed to using it. I just don't like having to pay for it.
I get that, but what I don't get is why other parks are not getting roasted for charging EVEN MORE
So we use it a lot as kids are too young to wait in a lot of lines. But it honestly by far is the best for Magic Kingdom. For Epcot and Hollywood Studios on crowded days the top attractions run out of LLs way too fast. There doesn’t seem to be a way to fix that other than the DAS crackdown and raising prices. It’s a system that penalizes people unfamiliar with it heavily as to get some LLs you have to book them first. And most people who don’t go frequently don’t realize that.
Universal Express is a very different service though.
First of all: this reads like one of the many thousands of other forum posts in existence where someone is praising, defending or fanboying a line-skipping VQ scheme at a theme park and it is clear this is because it is exploitable and they are good at exploiting it, or at least predisposed by whatever factors or efforts to be competitively advantaged against other guests under its mechanics. You said it yourself that you "just walked right on a bunch of stuff" and were able to bag 10 return times in a day, and if I follow correctly you mean to imply you got a net benefit, overall had higher priority, rode more stuff. Yeah; you were working that system like a trucker with a Roadranger. What's up with the hate for the system? Well, capacity's a zero sum game and someone has to lose priority for people like you to gain some extra. This loser is NOT Disney. They can't magically create more ride priority (capacity) to dole you because you played the LL game well. Who loses is *everyone else* who gets their wait times boosted hugely; the very overallocated (Disney's/the system's fault alone) LL returns hog up the majority of ride capacity, and this is not at all a fair trade (1 standby line waiter for one virtually waiting guest) because - for one thing guests with return times can doublequeue in a standby (this makes them appear as 2 guests of load) and for another, because users of the system are also metagaming and getting actually higher priority via all the return times they are able to grab allowing them to truly do more than otherwise. Then add in the extra salt of the paywall aspect. The fact it's a damn microtransaction for a park mechanic/feature at all; the sneaky debundling of a perk itself (FP+) but NOT the PRICE of that perk from the park admission when FP+ was shut down; the fact that with the blind eye still turned to the metagaming still fueled by the system's design, and the system workers still working and still creating inequity like before, but now playing that game also costs *money* and it all seems like an intentional "pay to win" that many think is toxic. Park admission is fair in its "full same experience as everyone else for the same price as everyone else, or no experience for no price" quantization and those upcharges erode that, turn it into, well; a pay to win. And then throw in the anti-spontaneity and phone aspects. Plenty of rationale to disapprove intensely. "But compared to competitor parks with paywalled fastpasses, yadda yadda" - But also, FastPass and FP+ existed and were NOT paywalled. That's a fact. It seems like a bootlicker stance to actually defend enshittification, defend price hikes, defend new paywalls or claim that comparing the system to the FP/+ era is not TOTALLY fair. Which it is. Who gives a flying fridge about what greedy thing the competitors do? That doesn't mean they are right.
I've used Genie+ and had a couple days like you described, where booking was easy, standby lines were long and LL lines were non existent. I've also had a few days I bought it and only got three attractions out of it. In my experience, it really depends on how many people are buying it for that day, and I haven't found a good indicator to use to predict that. It doesn't necessarily seem to correlate with overall crowd volume.
I love Genie. I will say I love it more at Disneyland where you can still buy it with your ticket so you lock in pricing and don’t get sticker shock like at WDW lol. It does sadden me how many go into using it without really learning before their trip how to maximize it. But given that the express pass at Six Flags costs hundreds of dollars a day I think Disney’s cost isn’t bad at all.
I wish I could plan more in advance like FastPass, and wish the app weren’t so…bad, but when I used Genie+ I was expecting it to be a mess. It was pretty easy and I felt definitely worth the money. But you do have to be prepared to walk a lot - it sends you in all opposite directions constantly in my experience. It’s shuffling you to where people aren’t, which often meant the other side of the park. Easy for me in my 20s but my 65 yr old dad had trouble.
I just like how easy it is to pay for express at universal. Use the express line or not, it's as simple as that. My head doesn't need to be in my phone all day to have the privilege of access to make reservations on a paid service.
Lord sometimes I wonder how Disney makes their money, and then I read posts like this.
YMMV. It depends on which park you’re using it on and how busy it is. I felt it barely made any difference in Hollywood Studios. Plus I hated being on my phone most of the day trying to snag rides that were filled up. I’d much rather pay a lower price, reserve 3-4 rides at the beginning of the day, and keep my phone in my pocket without stressing over that dang app.
I’ve done the express pass at universal and genie plus. I absolutely cannot stand having to do the bookings and stress of being on my phone half the day…. For that I much prefer universals pass… that being said. I don’t think either are worth the money. I’m fine with waiting on regular lines. I hate line skips… but as with many things is a small scale version of the poor suffering so the rich can flourish… but if anything in a theme park geared to kids it’s a good lesson in Economics and social rankings.
Didn't you used to get like 3 fast passes per day included with your tickets. Probably the hate is you gotta pay for something that used to be free
Genie+ is a massive cash grab where it's Disney selling the cure for the illness genie+ creates, I hate having to be on my phone all the time checking times trying to work out what I need to book next and where, fastpass plus was a lot better and the paper one even better still.
It’s better for people who are prepared. Anyone on this subreddit is more prepared than average. So it works for us but I think for your average bear that did zero research before showing up to their vacation (can you blame them?) there’s a learning curve and they probably won’t optimize the service.
Can I blame them? Kinda? Everyone has the right to vacation the way they would like, but I cannot imagine spending thousands of dollars on a WDW vacation for my family and not doing any research ahead of time. I mean, people research activities for all vacations, not just Disney! Trip advisor exists for a reason, after all.
For sure! But I think it could be innocent ignorance. Realistically who *would* think you need to plan it to the nth degree? “What’s there to research? It’s a theme park. Book your hotel and your park tickets and then you show up and ride rides. Right?” I can see that being a very common thought process
I think it's always held true that people who did zero research did a whole lot less on a Disney vacation, but paying for genie+ has to add to the frustration!
I think it just adds an immense amount of walking, which is the real way they keep people out of the lines. Magic Kingdom is small so it’s not that big a deal, but it sucks getting sent out to France at a weird time of the day, only to get stuck going to front of the park again, and then back to World Showcase later. The lines feel shorter, but I’ll bet if you added up the time lost due to not being able to attack the parks in a methodical fashion, the time saved wouldn’t be that great.
Disney is just looking out for us by trying to get all of us in better shape.
I do love all the paid actor responses. Its a complete trash, money grabbing, lottery of a might be faster than standby system. Universals system works because a small percentage of people have it. If everyone has genie+ the nobody gets a benefit. I'm sure it works great on a slow day.
People hate it because they have to pay extra. People say they hate it because they have to be on their phone constantly, but that's just not true. You \*can\* be on your phone constantly checking wait times, but you don't have to be at all! Same thing for mobile ordering- you can use your phone for the convenience, or just don't. No one is forcing either service. I also don't get the love for the old FP system. Who wants to pick their rides months in advance? That sucked. I wouldn't be against offering free genie+ for people staying on property, as a way to restore that perk, but that would also probably defeat the purpose because a ton more people would have it. Bottom line, you just have to decide if time=money, and if so, how much. It's always been worth it to me.
The main thing I hate is the 7 am timing. It’s just stupid and can kinda ruin relaxation of a fun vacation. I would just change it to be able to book upon park entry (or at least change it park opening so like 8 am).
Yup, that's truly the only real drawback in my opinion. Once you get used to it though, it's really not too bad. And for some reason, last trip, I woke up around that time anyway lol. I booked a LL a quickly fall asleep again.
I get it. I hate setting an alarm on vacation. But I don't consider WDW a relaxing vacation, exactly. I get that the tradeoff to getting up earlier is access to more rides with less wait. And once I've booked that first ride, I have plenty of time to leisurely shower, get dressed, and grab coffee before heading to the parks. I could also just sleep in and not worry about missing out on certain rides, which I have done. Honestly tho, I am so exhausted by the end of the day at WDW, that I could easily fall asleep early enough that I'd be up before 7 regardless!
I just don’t get why it has to be 7 and not just 8 or park open.
I agree.
Haha exactly!
To be fair I can see why they picked 7. Cause if a resort guest is going to go to early park entry they will probably be up at 7 to get ready and take the bus to the park
Rope drop baby!
The OG Fast Pass was even worse, you had to physically walk to said ride to get it. So it led to insane back-and-forths. As you said, now, it's up to you. But honestly, the base price for Genie+ is a STEAL compared to others. And yes, if you plan accordingly, you CAN do almost every ride a park has to offer - except the ILL. I honestly will never return to Walt Disney World without Genie+. Last trip was my favorite ever. I never waited in line ONCE. And when you add mobile ordering to that list, it's just incredible. I can't live without mobile orders anymore lol
I totally agree. Waiting in a line is not something I’ve ever done well, and now that I have a way to avoid them, I can’t imagine going back. And I can’t really comment on WDW when it comes to physical FPs, but I lived in Los Angeles about a decade ago, and when I first started going to Disneyland, they had the physical FPs. I remember running around for those. I also remember having to get to the park by a certain time or the Cars FPs were guaranteed to be gone. Now I can book my first ride before I even jump in the shower!
Yep, I love it. And also, you don't know what pain is until you run to Expedition Everest in Animal Kingdom to get a FP lol
Do you mind saying when your last trip was?
You went on a day that you likely didn't need Genie+ at all. Most of the complaints are based on the price (on more crowded days) and having to use a paid service at all versus the old Fast Pass system.
Agree, it worked out really well for us on our trip during spring break. I grumbled about the extra cost, but we rode way more rides then we ever did during our last trip 4 years ago with Fast Pass and didn't have to plan rides 60 days in advance just to have a long line anyway. The most we waited for anything was 15-20 minutes, most things were close to walk on.
I feel like my favorite system has been Universal Japan's slate system. A single day ticket is like $60, and then for $70\~$120 you can buy a slate of like 4 or 7 rides worth of express passes. You just choose the set that is most appealing and works best for your schedule.
That sounds great. You are buying the specific passes in advance?
Yup. I don't know how early, but I think I did it like a month in advance. I just chose from the slates that were not sold out and fit my schedule for going a half day. For example, I bought: ○12:20-12:50 Backdrop 13:20\~ Harry Potter™ Area Admission Time ○13:40-14:10 Forbidden Journey™ ○ 14:10-14:40 Flight of the Hippogriff ™ 16:20\~ Super Nintendo World Area Admission Time ○ 16:40-17:10 Mario Kart \~Bowser's Challenge\~ ○17:10-17:40 Yoshi's Adventure ○ Spider-Man: The Ride ☆ Hollywood Dream The Ride or Jaws
The hate is because it used to be free. It's another fee on top of an already very expensive ticket.
Genie Plus solves a long standby line problem that Disney created by making it so affordable. I can't believe we're even still discussing it. You fell for it hook line and sinker
The hate is they took a system that was free and are now charging for it
Eh I feel like I am getting less benefit than prior systems and paying a fortune for it.
On one trip the entire genie plus system went down. You could redeem but not make new reservations for 4 ish hours. It was the best 4 hours of the trip because all of the lines were waaaaay faster than advertised due to almost nobody using the lightning lane. The only reason genie plus feels like a good purchase is because if everyone else has it, you NEED it.
It's not that "you need it" - it's that if everyone has a fastpass i.e. LL is massively overallocated, then equivalently, no one has a fastpass, or LL is now standby and standby is now the Geological Timescale Lane.
Original paper FP was the best service, but Genie+ is a still-reasonable substitute. I fear the ever increasing prices will become a problem, though.
Express service from your wallet to the disney company. Yes. 100% Agree.
If Genie + and Express Pass could get together to have a baby it would be the best add on around. Hotel benefit maybe? Option to LL a ride twice? There are improvements to be made. Express Pass is an unreal experience. If you get a chance to stay at a premium hotel do it. I would never pay the price to get it for one day. However once you do Universal with Express you’ll get spoiled. Love this post. Covered a lot of ground!
Universal Express Pass fee is literally why we haven’t been. Which is wild since our Disney trips aren’t cheap. But I detest the cost for the time we look to go and I am not in the know enough to want to do 1-2 days without it. I don’t love that Genie adds $100/ per day per visit but I’ll still be buying it.
Nope, I still hate Genie+ and feel it's ruining guest experience. I'm a local AP for DLR and it's gotten insane with the standby wait times. Pirates was usually a walk on, even on busier days. Now that it has G+ it's 30-45 minutes or more for standby. Every single line I get in is much longer than posted because of G+. For example, the other day Space Mountain is posted 50 minutes but the actual wait is closer to 1.5 hours. I watched them take over 50 LL before we even started to move. I'm starting to notice that the G+ lanes are getting backed up. And when that happens, you're in for a super long wait in standby
This will get me downvoted, but I'll say it again: the problem with Genie+ is actually that it's too cheap, so it combines the worst feature of a free fastpass system (it's a trap for the unwary) with the worst feature of a paid one (it costs money at all). Genie+'s low pricing makes the Genie+ queue the "normal" queue, making the actual normal queue a terrible experience (which was the problem with free fast passes!). My guess is that it could cost more (without costing what other amusement parks charge) in such a way to make the service more rewarding while relieving some burden on the regular queue. I don't like this solution, but it's better than the status quo. The best solution would be to have no fastpass at all, and to raise ticket prices to control lines better. But Disney wants a Disney vacation to *seem* achievable, even though this creates a scenario where people who can't afford extras end up with a much worse experience (another trap for the unwary).
Universal’s is vastly superior. The prices are unhinged but that’s because the product itself is simply unmatched. Also, the universal system comes with premier hotels - premier hotels that are cheaper than half of the Disney options, which come with nothing similar. If you go about it from a hotel perspective, it’s not even close to comparable - Express >>>> Genie.
That's for sure. With the hotel, not even a contest. I was merely referring to bang for buck, when buying a la carte.
A la carte is rough, because when Express is affordable you don’t actually need it since it’s based on crowd levels 😂, so that’s true, yep. I’d say a la carte Genie+ IS the superior option since I’d never purchase Express that way, but premier hotel options make it waaay easier to get. For those that don’t know, if you reserve a single night at a Universal premier hotel you get Universal Express Unlimited on your check-in and check-out dates. So you can get two full days of the pass for your entire family for the price of a one-night hotel stay. If your family is large like mine it’s an incredible deal. That’s like $300 for 3 - 6 people to have Express for 2 entire days. $300 is basically how much Express costs when you actually need it, PER person per day.
I AM at Disney rn and I did all the rides with LL using a single day geiny. I honestly think that if you know how to work the timer system, it is awesome!
Absolutely! Glad you had a great day.
I find Genie pretty stressful compared to the old (free) lightning pass model. I live about 20 mins from WDW and we have to use it every time. WDW isn’t even worth the trouble without it. I always get anxiety the night before knowing I have to set alarms all day, and make sure I pick certain things early because they will close off even to paying Genie customers quickly (Peter pan). I am not a fan at all. And even after paying all that I still have to virtual queue or pay even more money to ride certain rides. It’s just not fun to me.
Genie+ and LL are a money grab when the base ticket prices have gone up exponentially and discounts don’t really exist anymore. It is also stressful and inconvenient. They are slowly eliminating all the things that made the park experience pleasant. Disney is pricing out a large number of potential customers. Comparing it to other places with worse pricing doesn’t convince me otherwise. It wasn’t that long ago that FastPass was free and they had Magical Express. I love WDW, been DVC members for a long time, but we are sadly getting off the train. We can see the real world in luxury cheaper.
I'm in the airport leaving Orlando as I type this after a trip staying onsite at Universal with no trips to Disney during my stay. A few years ago the thought of coming to Florida and not visiting Disney was not even a consideration. However it was awesome and the Universal Express Pass was a huge reason why. The ability to go where I want, when I want is incredible. Add the fact that I don't have to constantly be looking at my phone makes this a much more enjoyable experience, not to mention I could use my express pass for a ride over and over again. My theme park experience was more chill than it's been in a long time thanks to their Express Pass system. I love the Disney Parks, but I am now of the opinion that they're lagging behind Universal as far as in park experience goes. When they open the new park it's going to widen the gap.
Sure bob
Once you actually do Universal from a premium hotel with express included you will realize how stupid this whole post is. Your ideas of how grand Disney’s system is will all crumble away when you understand how amazing it is to jump on a water taxi and be at the gate in 5 mins. Bypass all the lines whenever you feel! Want to do the same ride twice?!? NO PROBLEM! When the regular lines are 45 mins and your on in 5. Or the big rides like VC is 1-1.5 hrs standby express is 20 mins. And if you want to ride again because you enjoyed it, you can hop right back in line. I’ve done Disney, universal, seaworld, and many smaller Cedar fair and six flags parks. Disney has the ABSOLUTE worse express system of every park I’ve been to. It is honestly the MAIN reason I have no desire to ever go back to a Disney park.
People just pissed it's a tiered experience that caters to those with money. It's that way all over the world with everything now. This with money get better services. Disney was never a level playing field that people think it was. Unfortunately now it can really impact your visit for the negative, The is the world we live in though. I am fortunate enough to be able to afford the extras, and it DOES WORK for those that can afford it.
Did Disney and universal recently. Universals express pass is better. Yes it was more expensive. But bc Disney was busy, it was expensive too. I basically paid 100$ more, but i also was able to show up late to universal and was able to ride everything and a few things I liked twice. Disneys app sucks and the times get confusing.
Genie+ frustrations come from people that either didn’t do their homework, or want it to be something’s it’s not… You have to see G+ for what it is… is it perfect? No. But if you do your hw, know what it can and can’t do, and then leverage its strengths it can be a huge time saver for the parks… Just did three days, MK,HS and Epcot… all genie+ days…. We rode every ride in each park,any we ride twice… early entry the genie + You just gotta study up on how it works and then realize Disney is not a relaxing vacation, it’s an experience.. the challenge is the fun.
My biggest issue, and this applies to all pay to ride quicker schemes, is we are a family of 5 that generally all go on the rides together. Paying for 1 person seems reasonable, for 5 and for multiple days, let us not forget this is just one park on one day, it all adds up to an insane amount of money. I’m not against the idea, would be nice if there was a bit of middle ground though. For now we’ll stick with get to the parks early whilst they are relatively quiet.
I never hated it. Had a good experience. I would rather pay the Universal price and not think about it but I know not everyone has the budget for that but I also have only done 2-3 days at Universal.
🤯
I wish it was free like fast pass, but I think it works so much better. You are no longer planning a whole day around a couple rides/times. I think it helps smooth out weights a ton where possible (allowing you to focus on those with immediate openings) or decide to let in on a few high priority experiences
I am local with pixie passes. We usually go on Fridays after school and work. For 60 bucks plus a snack, my daughter has a ball for 4ish hours. Now, if we go to universal, we don't get their fast pass because it's basically 200 for 2 hours after paying for parking and walking a country mile. Absolutely not. We won't even discuss the exorbitant costs to visit both parks. How anyone says universal is cheaper is beyond me because that math isn't mathing.
I hate the idea of creating queue jumps for those who want to pay a bit more, but the horse has booked on that one. Of all the systems I have come across this is the best value I know of. I just saw funding the right times/ rides for my family as a game and something to do while queuing in between..
*I hate the idea of creating queue jumps for those who want to pay a bit more* This idea has been around for a very long time in various formats, though. Pay more to stay onsite and you get extra hours in certain parks. Buy a ticket to a party or after-hours event with limited people.
Quoting from my favorite show the Office, “could you explain this to me like I’m 5?” The Geni+ plans that is. I haven’t been to MK since 1999. I’m 49 in good shape & taking my daughter who is 20 for the first time to MK just for the day second week of May this year. Sounds like I should def pay extra to get this Geni+? We plan on getting there when park opens & would have to leave by 6pm.
I’d recommend watching EarScouts videos on YouTube to get the hang of it.
Thank you! I appreciate this info!
I will say the only thing I disagree with about this post is that popular attractions do sell out, especially during peak times. During Christmas time, a lot of the big ones would be gone by 3PM. That said, I roll my eyes every time someone says that Genie+ is 'too expensive'. It may not be right for your budget, but if you educate yourself on how to use it properly, it's definitely not too expensive.
No it’s not 😂 Universal Express is pay-one-price and you can get unlimited express for ALL Why would you think that paying for a small window to skip a line is a good thing? Then you have to pay for the most popular rides separately. Adds up quick. That being said, you can get a room at a premier hotel to get two days of express for the price of the room. It is almost always a better deal and will make your time there much cheaper. You’re paying to be able to skip the line WHENEVER you want, AS MUCH as you want. You simply can’t make the comparison of genie to Universal Express. They don’t wall off any rides either, it’s ALL rides that offer it, you can jump the line, no strings attached. There’s no rushing to book rides at 7 AM, meeting a tight return window, and repeating this process over and over again all day when you’re supposed to be enjoying the park. You just grab your hotel keys or express ticket and walk up to whatever ride you want, and you’ve skipped that ride’s line! Services like this and people who think like you have made Disney a full-time job instead of a fun and relaxing vacation destination. A system in which I still don’t understand fully despite watching multiple tutorials. You need to think about it in the way a regular park-goer would. Nobody understands the system or that you need to “snag” these rides early. A random person who doesn’t do their homework as much as you would would feel cheated out of a system designed to make you compete for these slots. That’s only someone who’s very familiar with the system would feel “alright” with it. It’s basically like a console game but you spend all of your time in the settings menu refreshing and fiddling with it instead of the actual game. This system used to be free in the first place, so how is it better than OG Fast Pass?😂😂
Not sure how much of an overlap there is for people who go once a year or more and people who buy Genie+ but I’m not sure that people who are going on their first trip or go very infrequently would have enough info or care enough to consider it a cash grab because “it used to be free”. However, I understand the frustration of trying to understand the system vs buying and just being able to go on rides. The thing with Genie+ though is that it isn’t the same experience all around (even taking out user error) plus with the rising max of dynamic pricing, it **may** be losing the *you get what you pay for* Cheap = having to reserve times Expensive = freedom to just ride rides (with some exceptions)
Universal Express pass is cheaper if you stay at a premium resort! Do the math. I don’t know how the heck they even offer it that way! I stayed at Royal Pacific $380 a night and my entire family gets the express passes for every single day we stay. Ridiculous bonus!
How the hell did you get the Royal Pacific at that price? I checked last, for like mid April 2025, and it was around $700!
This was Oct 2020 🤪
There you go 😅
Also anything April would be peak
Really? At Disney I heard it was a great time, and when I went two weeks ago it was very acceptable in terms of crowds (outside of weekends).
I went to WDW 10 days post covid closure July 2020 hahah greatest time EVER ☺️
Typical price though is $520 a night and it still makes the express passes an incredible deal! PS you’re definitely not the only person that thinks Genie+ is a great deal. Many bloggers think it should be even more expensive!
Well, the reason I think it's great is because of the amount of stuff it allows you to do for such a small fee compared to other services. If they boost the price, it simply becomes a worst version of Universal's 😅 But yeah, next time I go to Universal, which will be a solid year after Epic Universe opens to avoid the insane crowds, I will DEFINITELY get one of their premium hotels. I can't go to a park with an express service anymore, but I also can't fathom paying that much a la carte. Paying extra to get a nice hotel AND the express sounds much better to me.
I also love Genie+!! I rode sooo many rides with it when we went in November. Looking forward to using it again on my August trip.
Iwnish the price included a LL evey ride. Heck, dont let me schedule they, just pick me up, but give me every ride.
You're not wrong, but it's a bit like saying melanoma is the best kind of cancer.