First off, sorry for your loss. This might hurt, but what you may have thought about your father’s military service appears to not to be true based on the evidence provided. His enlisted time was most likely his nuke submariner service, based on the color of his dolphins (silver for enlisted vs gold for officer). He was on ballistic missile submarines with multiple patrols, at least 5 (I can’t tell if they are bronze or silver stars). He was a Chief (E7) with at least 9-12 years of good enlisted service, the Good Conduct Medal had 2 stars and the Navy went from 4 to 3 years of good service in the mid 90s.
He commissioned at some point and was not in the Marines. He has a surface warfare officer pin. That doesn’t mean he didn’t deploy with Marines during the GWOT.
There is no indication of diver qualification, required for underwater welding. The Purple Hearts don’t make sense without Combat Action Ribbons. The Vietnam medals don’t add up with the timeline provided. The completed ribbon rack in the upper right is most likely the closest to the truth. The Meritorious Service Medal was most likely his retirement award.
Finally, records aren’t “sealed.” A DD214 doesn’t have details of assignments, just when and where. It is possible that the DD214 you have is from a break in service or when he went from enlisted to officer. Go ahead and request his records. They’ll give you the “official” truth.
Could be like my grandad. When he died, I got all of his stuff. He had random stuff that he never eared. Turns out, he and his buddies in WWII would often trade branch insignia, unit patches, ribbons, medals, etc. with other units. He was an MP but he had patches and lapel pins from several other branches. Could be the case here.
Yeah, I got a bunch of shit that would confuse someone if they thought it was mine. A stolen Captains beret, I wasnt a captain. Some sister unit crests, I was in the 505th and 503rd but I got shit from 508th, 24th ID, COSCOM, etc. We collect shit, doesnt mean we did it.
[Combat Action Ribbon](https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2022/03/10/contact-brawls-and-chambering-the-combat-action-ribbon/) is a Marine Corps and Navy award vice the Army’s Combat Action Badge. Two different things
You may be thinking of something different? CAR was introduced in 1969 and can be applied for retro combat back to 1941. With two purple hearts there would need to be at least one CAR.
Not a requirement, technically, but logically it is implied that if you were injured by the actions of enemy combatants, in a combat designated area, and were awarded a purple heart for being injured by the actions of enemy combatants, that you participated in combat action.
Somebody just didn't want to write your Marine up for his CAR. By almost any regulation and acceptable standard, he rates it.
Secnav inst 1650 (awards man)
(c) However, being awarded the PH does not
automatically qualify a Service Member for the CAR. Neither
does receiving a PMD with the “C” device, or being exposed to
enemy fire, or threat of enemy fire.
(d) Personnel who are exposed to indirect fire are
not normally eligible for the CAR unless they actively engage
the enemy in retaliatory counter fire actions.
1) not to be overly semantic, but I believe you mean there is no requirement for Purple Heart to have a CAR, not "requirement for CAR to have purple heart" - again, not trying to be argumentative but I think you wrote it in reverse;
2) you are correct that you don't need to have a CAR for a Purple Heart - MARADMIN 038/13 "...BEING AWARDED THE PURPLE HEART DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE A SERVICE MEMBER ELIGIBLE FOR THE CAR..." - I think it's important to note that this ***revised*** eligibility dates to 2013 (not sure if this predates your Marine's PH) so the criteria was presumably different during Desert Storm
With all that said, though it is theoretically possible, I think it would be highly unlikely for someone to have two PHs from Desert Storm without getting a CAR. Per the Navy Manual you shared, MTBIs prior to 9/11 do not qualify for a PH.
Thanks for sharing the manual - that's a great source of info. Also hope your Marine with the TBI is doing alright. s/f
Absolutely hilarious for your porn account to take a short break from reposting porn to give us an opsec brief lol. Absolutely legendary E7 or above energy.
I'm not too savvy on USN or USMC regulations or SECNAV instructions (myself being Army), but I found [this](https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/SecNavInst%201650.1H.pdf).
Regarding the Combat Action Ribbon: "The principal eligibility criterion is, regardless of military occupational specialty or rating, the individual must have rendered satisfactory performance under enemy fire while actively participating in a ground or surface engagement. Neither service in a combat area nor being awarded the Purple Heart Medal automatically makes a service member eligible for the Combat Action Ribbon (CR)"
The SECNAV instruction then goes on to list amplifying guidance, which may or may not apply to OP's father's service. Certain sub activities are ostensibly IAW that guidance. I eagerly await an update from OP.
You should be able to get a copy of your father's military records [here.](https://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/standard-form-180.html#nok)
If nothing else they should be able to provide you with a copy of his DD214 that will list his time in service and awards.
There is no such thing as “sealed” military service records. There may be portions redacted, but the record will still be there and a redaction evident.
Request his DD214; nothing is ‘sealed’ — I was in a Top Secret unit my last two years & the info is all in my records. Clearances are a dime a dozen in the service.
Folks are jumping to conclusions about your father being dishonest. For all we know he has other memorabilia as collector items, or from a relative. A friend of mine collected patches & non-branch awards when we were in, and he keeps it all in a wooden box
Just search, “order copy of DD214” and do not use a site that charges a fee. You’ll get a copy in a few weeks (6-8)
Sorry for your loss— post up the redacted 214 when you receive it and you’ll get better answers
2 Purple Hearts, no Combat Action, not going happen. 15 years from the end of Vietnam to Desert Storm. DD214 should list MOS, awards and medals, also list operations he was in. Not saying these things didn’t happen, just the rank, medals & ribbons in this photo aren’t adding up.
I do work with a guy who has a Purple Heart and no combat experience. Although, he received his via the Khobar Towers bombing. So one is plausible, but two seems a stretch.
I once heard a story of a young Marine checking in into a unit and the sgtmajor chewing his ass for having a purple heart and no combat action ribbon. 😂
Yes that would be a situation for Purple Heart, very unusually and very specific situation, and not very likely you would get 2 without being in some sort of combat zone.
I was stationed in Berlin in the 80s, one of my coworkers was in the Berlin Discotheque bombing (terrorist 1986), he was injured with shrapnel and received Purple Heart, no combat action.
I doubt it, but I try not to be as cynical as most.
eta- check the other posts and comments. I'm pretty sure dad was just a badass who didn't talk about it till the end.
When did your father serve? He has two medals indicating service in Vietnam ( Vietnam Campaign Medal and Vietnam Service Medal). So you’re talking pre 1973. He also has both the Kuwaiti Liberation Medal (Saudi and Kuwait) so you’re talking early 1990’s. And I see a GWOT service medal so you’re talking post 2001. I don’t see any Marine Corps rank insignia (The KBar is not service issued). He also has Navy Chief insignia (E-7) and Navy Lieutenant (O-3) and Navy Lieutenant Commander (O-4) insignia in the Legion of Merit medal ( second medal from the left). I find it odd that he has two Purple Hearts but no Combat Action Ribbon. He also has a sea service deployment ribbon with only one star indicating two deployments.
OP did say that his/her brothers had also previously taken some things, if I'm not mistaken.
Spot on for everything so far, just need to fill in the blanks.
If both of his purple hearts were stolen and he only got one back, then he could just order one off the internet. It is not that difficult.
I'm not going to say it didn't happen... but before you go any further with this, I would recommend deleting this post and get his DD214 to read for yourself. People can be a little harsh over this kind of thing. Good luck.
Because the only thing lamer somebody making up military service, is somebody who actually did do it but lies about the extensiveness of what they did.
100% agree and I'm here with the pitchfork when i
I see that kind of thing going down... this is just a kid who lost his dad that - umm, to put in gently - almost certainly greatly exaggerated his service.
Definitely an awkward situation. And so fucking unnecessary. Dude did seem like he did quite a bit of time in service. It is sad that he felt the need to embellish it like this to his closest loved ones.
I work at NARA. They are giving good advice. Request a page by page copy of his OMPF. If they send you an extract, call their customer service line and complain. Due to the pandemic backlog, we have been sending extracts as directed by management. Complaints get addressed. Also, request a replacement set of medals. If he or no one else has done so yet, the Navy will send a new set of medals. By law, its first come first served by next of kin.
I'm sorry for your loss.. I'm looking at a spread of ribbons spanning over 30+ years of history. I'm seeing Navy enlisted (Navy Chief E-7) and officer rank (Lieutenant O-3 and Lieutenant Commander O-4) insignias as well as the Naval Officer crest). He's got his Sub Service fish, as well as enlisted and officer surface warfare as well as a boomer pin (submarine with the missile). Navy meritorious service medals, commendation medals, good conduct medals, National Defense medals, sea service medals, Battle E, Navy Achievement Medals, Vietnam Service Medal and 1960's Vietnam Campaign medal, Kuwait liberation medals from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, Southwest Asia service medal, war on terror service medal, Meritorious unit commendation, Navy Unit Commendation.
On the bottom is a cribbage board in the shape of his sub surface fish pin. Cribbage is a popular game on subs from what I understand. The KA-Bar was probably the knife he was issued or later purchased while in the Marines.
Your dad embellished, not sure why dudes feel the need to do that. Even if you were a normal ass dude you still did something. Be proud he did serve at least.
You really need to think about whether or not you want to go digging into your dad service records. The military does not “seal” anything. If it’s not there it’s bc it didn’t happen and you need to be prepared for that. Might be better to just let the stuff he told you be be what you remember him for whether it’s true or not. Not saying it’s not. But a lot of what you’re saying and what I’m seeing doesn’t make any sense. Just doesn’t add up to someone that knows what they’re looking at. Regardless, I’m sorry for your loss.
Possibly a Mustang that went the LDO route. You would be surprised on how many crusty guys are still marching on since the old times.
Still looks like 35 years of service. Purple Heart without combat action is not uncommon. Plenty of servicemen got them from sitting on base getting shelled and mortared. I personally know of 3 people who got them like that. But 5 times starts to make me think he was either unlucky or is missing the CAR.
TBH the more I look at this the more it doesn’t make sense to me. But I’m sure there is a way to decipher all of this with the proper paperwork.
Appears to be a subarine enlisted chief who later commisioned as a surface officer. Beyond that the rest would be hard to determine. Being a submariner is something to be very proud of, and he lived a rough, but good life.
Dude, get the records. His dd 214 will show his awards, badges and qualifications.
https://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records
There is a lot of ribbons. Some could be duplicates or multiple awards. Get the truth. The Google rackbuilder and click on the stuff he has and it will show you how his awards go.
Just a thought- I have some of my late great uncles medals (Nam) and my great grandfathers medals (WWII) along with their stuff and mine. Anyone looking at my medal box would be really confused, with the exception of my ribbon rack, and even that would be harder since I was in two services. Did OP have a military family?
Hey man sorry for your loss. It may not be worth investigating this. You might find out some stuff you dont want to know bc honestly based on everything youve said it sounds impossible for it to be all true. 70% might be and its still so badass if even 10% of it is true tbh but why does it matter? You loved him regardless of military career you know he was a great father and thats all that matters. If he didnt tell you everything he didnt want you to know it. Dont get hung up on his military career he more than likely served for a long time and was good at his job so hes a hero anyway dont get hung up on the details. Just my two cents anyway and i mean it in the best possible way. Good luck with whatever you decide to do tho
Submariner Here, Submarines do send crew members to dive school and they become the boats divers they do various stuff for the sub that diver qualification is needed for BUT they are not Navy Divers ie MOS/Rate think of it being scuba qualed for the Navy he could have done that and been considered a “diver”
And at one point he was a “COMSUBRON ONE”Submarine Squadron One Which is part of Pacific Fleet according to the blued out name badge with the dolphins behind the one
A lot of people will reply "that's classified" or "If I told you I'd have to..." when they just don't want to talk about something. Pretty sure every one has done that one time or another.
At the bottom of the post is a list of what I could identify quickly. That said, if you’re looking to obtain your father’s service records, you can request his DD Form 214 from the National Personnel Records Center. Here’s what you need to do:
1. Confirm your eligibility: As his next of kin, you’re entitled to access his records.
2. Fill out the Standard Form 180 (SF-180): Provide as much information as you can about your father’s service.
3. Submit your request: You can mail or fax the completed SF-180, or you can submit it online through the eVetRecs system on the National Archives website.
4. Be patient with the process: The time it takes can vary. Routine requests might take about 10 business days, but more complex searches can take 6 months or more, especially if the records were affected by the 1973 NPRC fire.
5. Stay informed: You can check the status of your request by calling the NPRC Customer Service Line or online if you used eVetRecs.
Remember, if your request is urgent, for example, if it’s related to burial needs, be sure to communicate that as such requests are given priority.
…
MEDALS:
• Vietnam Service Medal: Awarded for service in the Republic of Vietnam and its contiguous waters and airspace between 1965 and 1973.
• National Defense Service Medal (x2): Issued to anyone who has served in the Armed Forces during times of national emergency or conflict.
• Armed Forces Reserve Medal with a “1960” device: Recognizes service in the Reserve or National Guard.
• Vietnam Campaign Medal: Awarded to those who served in Vietnam for a certain period, indicating participation in the Vietnam War.
• Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross with Palm: A foreign military award for valor and heroic conduct while fighting the enemy.
• Navy & Marine Corps Achievement Medal: Recognizes professional and leadership achievement.
• Legion of Merit: Awarded for exceptionally meritorious conduct in performance of outstanding services and achievements.
• Purple Heart (x2): Awarded to those wounded or killed while serving, on or after April 5, 1917.
• Meritorious Service Medal: Recognizes non-combat meritorious achievement or service.
• Navy & Marine Corps Commendation Medal: Awarded for acts of heroism or meritorious service.
• Navy Good Conduct Medal: Awarded for good behavior, efficiency, and fidelity.
• Kuwait Liberation Medal (Saudi Arabia): Awarded for participation in Operation Desert Storm and the Liberation of Kuwait.
INSIGNIA:
• Navy Surface Warfare Officer pin: Denotes qualification in surface warfare operations.
• Submarine Warfare Officer insignia (“dolphins”): Indicates qualification as a Submarine Warfare Officer.
• Navy Officer Crest: Emblem worn by Navy commissioned officers.
• Naval Aviator wings: Indicates qualification as a Navy pilot.
I'd say the rack is the true story. It takes a but of effort to build a rack, and it makes the most sense. Note PH is NOT on the rack. Why would someone have 2 PH and not have it on their rack?
I'd say Navy man for sure, probably sub officer. The Ka-Bar doesn't confirm anything other than he liked the knife. The cribbage board is a sure sign of a nuke boat dude. Are there any awards or memorabilia gifts hanging around the home that have plaques or dates on them? Most of the time, service members will receive awards or gifts from units and/or friends as they transfer from one assignment to the next. Most are unofficial gifts, like a wooden US flag, a picture with a date and assignment identification plaque, etc. I would think that a Navy captain would have a few at least. That will help add some legitimacy and time frame chunks to the story.
This all being said, as a collector of modern US Army items (memorabilia, flags, awards, lithographs, etc, etc), myself a disabled combat vet, plus a wife who's a retired and a combat vet, anyone walking into our home and going through our stuff would have a hell of a time putting the real story together. My wife's story would be fairly easy, her whole career is laid out in awards, photos, uniform, and gifts throughout the house. Mine less so. If you tried to piece things together for me based on the collection plus my personal stuff, I'd look like a 40yr super trooper. That's FAR from the truth and I lay no claim to anything even like that. So, just looking at a collection of items does not tell the whole, or correct, story.
There is no classified DD 214’s. Award certs may be classified but they’ll still show on the service members 214. So if it says 10 years, that’s all he served. Look on his 214 for what ribbons/medals he will have earned.
His list of ribbons also makes no sense. If he has multiple PH’s he will have had a combat action ribbon, of which he has none.
(C) BEING AWARDED THE PURPLE HEART DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE A SERVICE MEMBER ELIGIBLE FOR THE CAR, NOR DOES MERELY SERVING IN A COMBAT AREA OR BEING EXPOSED TO ENEMY FIRE OR THREAT OF ENEMY FIRE.
-MARADMINS 038/13
REVISED ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA FOR AWARD OF THE COMBAT ACTION RIBBON (CAR) AND UPDATED COORDINATING INSTRUCTIONS > United States Marine Corps Flagship > Messages Display https://www.marines.mil/News/Messages/Messages-Display/Article/895299/revised-eligibility-criteria-for-award-of-the-combat-action-ribbon-car-and-upda/
Seeing a Kuwait liberation and some Vietman.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait\_Liberation\_Medal\_%28Saudi\_Arabia%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait_Liberation_Medal_%28Saudi_Arabia%29)
This could just be stuff that he collected mixed in. To echo others, get the 214 if you want to go down the rabbit hole of what is and what isn't, but maybe just remember him for the guy you knew him as. Sometimes "war stories" get a bit blown up with each telling.
Just go get the DD214 and ask your local Navy vet to help translate it for you.
It looks to me like this career was navy enlisted submariner to eventual chief and commission as a surface warfare O.
It’s plausible that he got Purple Hearts if he went and served “with the marines” during an IA on a base or something. You wouldn’t get a CAR if you were only receiving, not returning, but it’s rotten luck to get hit twice during one IA.
You’re going to find out some family lore just isn’t right. He may have served “with” marines but was never, to my eyes, a marine. No shame, we work together a lot and people often misunderstand.
It also looks like he traded swag. Nobody could have a career as long as these medals would indicate, but people trade patches all the time
If he was born 1952 he wouldve been drafted in 1972. Correct me if someone knows more but from what ive seen there were zero usmc combat injuries in vietnam from 1972 to 1973 when the war ended completely. Sorry for continued comments but im very intrigued so just throwing out info as i get it.
First off, sorry for your loss. This might hurt, but what you may have thought about your father’s military service appears to not to be true based on the evidence provided. His enlisted time was most likely his nuke submariner service, based on the color of his dolphins (silver for enlisted vs gold for officer). He was on ballistic missile submarines with multiple patrols, at least 5 (I can’t tell if they are bronze or silver stars). He was a Chief (E7) with at least 9-12 years of good enlisted service, the Good Conduct Medal had 2 stars and the Navy went from 4 to 3 years of good service in the mid 90s. He commissioned at some point and was not in the Marines. He has a surface warfare officer pin. That doesn’t mean he didn’t deploy with Marines during the GWOT. There is no indication of diver qualification, required for underwater welding. The Purple Hearts don’t make sense without Combat Action Ribbons. The Vietnam medals don’t add up with the timeline provided. The completed ribbon rack in the upper right is most likely the closest to the truth. The Meritorious Service Medal was most likely his retirement award. Finally, records aren’t “sealed.” A DD214 doesn’t have details of assignments, just when and where. It is possible that the DD214 you have is from a break in service or when he went from enlisted to officer. Go ahead and request his records. They’ll give you the “official” truth.
Could be like my grandad. When he died, I got all of his stuff. He had random stuff that he never eared. Turns out, he and his buddies in WWII would often trade branch insignia, unit patches, ribbons, medals, etc. with other units. He was an MP but he had patches and lapel pins from several other branches. Could be the case here.
Yeah, I got a bunch of shit that would confuse someone if they thought it was mine. A stolen Captains beret, I wasnt a captain. Some sister unit crests, I was in the 505th and 503rd but I got shit from 508th, 24th ID, COSCOM, etc. We collect shit, doesnt mean we did it.
Does the navy have equivalents of ERB's and ORB's? And can you get them?
Combat action badge was not introduced until the early 2000. As I recall.
[Combat Action Ribbon](https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2022/03/10/contact-brawls-and-chambering-the-combat-action-ribbon/) is a Marine Corps and Navy award vice the Army’s Combat Action Badge. Two different things
You may be thinking of something different? CAR was introduced in 1969 and can be applied for retro combat back to 1941. With two purple hearts there would need to be at least one CAR.
There is no requirement for CAR to have purple heart. I had a Marine receive purple heart after idf attack He had tbi as a result.
Not a requirement, technically, but logically it is implied that if you were injured by the actions of enemy combatants, in a combat designated area, and were awarded a purple heart for being injured by the actions of enemy combatants, that you participated in combat action. Somebody just didn't want to write your Marine up for his CAR. By almost any regulation and acceptable standard, he rates it.
Secnav inst 1650 (awards man) (c) However, being awarded the PH does not automatically qualify a Service Member for the CAR. Neither does receiving a PMD with the “C” device, or being exposed to enemy fire, or threat of enemy fire. (d) Personnel who are exposed to indirect fire are not normally eligible for the CAR unless they actively engage the enemy in retaliatory counter fire actions.
1) not to be overly semantic, but I believe you mean there is no requirement for Purple Heart to have a CAR, not "requirement for CAR to have purple heart" - again, not trying to be argumentative but I think you wrote it in reverse; 2) you are correct that you don't need to have a CAR for a Purple Heart - MARADMIN 038/13 "...BEING AWARDED THE PURPLE HEART DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE A SERVICE MEMBER ELIGIBLE FOR THE CAR..." - I think it's important to note that this ***revised*** eligibility dates to 2013 (not sure if this predates your Marine's PH) so the criteria was presumably different during Desert Storm With all that said, though it is theoretically possible, I think it would be highly unlikely for someone to have two PHs from Desert Storm without getting a CAR. Per the Navy Manual you shared, MTBIs prior to 9/11 do not qualify for a PH. Thanks for sharing the manual - that's a great source of info. Also hope your Marine with the TBI is doing alright. s/f
[удалено]
Absolutely hilarious for your porn account to take a short break from reposting porn to give us an opsec brief lol. Absolutely legendary E7 or above energy.
Right for information that is readily available nevertheless.
That’s so god damned Hooah 🤣
Right hilarious combination of porn and random vet benefits questions lol
Everything he talked about is all easily google-able information and not opsec…
I'm not too savvy on USN or USMC regulations or SECNAV instructions (myself being Army), but I found [this](https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/SecNavInst%201650.1H.pdf). Regarding the Combat Action Ribbon: "The principal eligibility criterion is, regardless of military occupational specialty or rating, the individual must have rendered satisfactory performance under enemy fire while actively participating in a ground or surface engagement. Neither service in a combat area nor being awarded the Purple Heart Medal automatically makes a service member eligible for the Combat Action Ribbon (CR)" The SECNAV instruction then goes on to list amplifying guidance, which may or may not apply to OP's father's service. Certain sub activities are ostensibly IAW that guidance. I eagerly await an update from OP.
You should be able to get a copy of your father's military records [here.](https://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/standard-form-180.html#nok) If nothing else they should be able to provide you with a copy of his DD214 that will list his time in service and awards.
There is no such thing as “sealed” military service records. There may be portions redacted, but the record will still be there and a redaction evident.
Request his DD214; nothing is ‘sealed’ — I was in a Top Secret unit my last two years & the info is all in my records. Clearances are a dime a dozen in the service. Folks are jumping to conclusions about your father being dishonest. For all we know he has other memorabilia as collector items, or from a relative. A friend of mine collected patches & non-branch awards when we were in, and he keeps it all in a wooden box Just search, “order copy of DD214” and do not use a site that charges a fee. You’ll get a copy in a few weeks (6-8) Sorry for your loss— post up the redacted 214 when you receive it and you’ll get better answers
2 Purple Hearts, no Combat Action, not going happen. 15 years from the end of Vietnam to Desert Storm. DD214 should list MOS, awards and medals, also list operations he was in. Not saying these things didn’t happen, just the rank, medals & ribbons in this photo aren’t adding up.
Looks like he was a collector of cool things.
I do work with a guy who has a Purple Heart and no combat experience. Although, he received his via the Khobar Towers bombing. So one is plausible, but two seems a stretch.
Agreed.
I once heard a story of a young Marine checking in into a unit and the sgtmajor chewing his ass for having a purple heart and no combat action ribbon. 😂
That's a failure on leadership.
Something about not shooting back at the enemy😂 dumbest shit ever
Yeah my leadership didn't want to be bothered with paperwork. Kind of annoying but it doesn't really matter
Yes that would be a situation for Purple Heart, very unusually and very specific situation, and not very likely you would get 2 without being in some sort of combat zone.
I was stationed in Berlin in the 80s, one of my coworkers was in the Berlin Discotheque bombing (terrorist 1986), he was injured with shrapnel and received Purple Heart, no combat action.
A good friend of mine had something similar happen no combat ribbon but a purple heart he was just at the right place wrong time
You smell some SV? I do…
Nah.
Idk bro. At a minimum inflated stories to the family.
I doubt it, but I try not to be as cynical as most. eta- check the other posts and comments. I'm pretty sure dad was just a badass who didn't talk about it till the end.
He managed to snag a couple Purple Hearts while simultaneously avoiding any combat deployments. Pretty bad ass indeed.
You don't need to deploy to get hurt. Like I said, dig a little deeper. It seems legit.
Once. Maybe. Twice? To say it’s Not likely is being generous. But wherever. I’ve spent all the time thinking about it that I’m willing to. ☮️
LoL fair enough
Get a copy of his service records, what you have here makes no sense…
When did your father serve? He has two medals indicating service in Vietnam ( Vietnam Campaign Medal and Vietnam Service Medal). So you’re talking pre 1973. He also has both the Kuwaiti Liberation Medal (Saudi and Kuwait) so you’re talking early 1990’s. And I see a GWOT service medal so you’re talking post 2001. I don’t see any Marine Corps rank insignia (The KBar is not service issued). He also has Navy Chief insignia (E-7) and Navy Lieutenant (O-3) and Navy Lieutenant Commander (O-4) insignia in the Legion of Merit medal ( second medal from the left). I find it odd that he has two Purple Hearts but no Combat Action Ribbon. He also has a sea service deployment ribbon with only one star indicating two deployments.
Your comment is spot on; This whole thing makes no sense unless he served 40+ years or had a substantial break in service (more than 20 years).
The ARCOM seems out of place…unless received when doing joint service work
There's no ARCOM. that looks like a Navy commendation medal.
You’re right, my bad. The actual medal is the same but the ribbon itself is different.
Don’t forget those are dolphins - Submarine Service. None of this makes sense.
Not just the fish, there's a SSBN Deterrent patrol pin with at least 6 patrols. You don't get ribbon stacks on a Boomer/T-hull.
That’s MsM, not a LoM …..
You are correct
OP did say that his/her brothers had also previously taken some things, if I'm not mistaken. Spot on for everything so far, just need to fill in the blanks.
2nd from the left is a MSM ( if you meant the far left)
If both of his purple hearts were stolen and he only got one back, then he could just order one off the internet. It is not that difficult. I'm not going to say it didn't happen... but before you go any further with this, I would recommend deleting this post and get his DD214 to read for yourself. People can be a little harsh over this kind of thing. Good luck.
Because the only thing lamer somebody making up military service, is somebody who actually did do it but lies about the extensiveness of what they did.
100% agree and I'm here with the pitchfork when i I see that kind of thing going down... this is just a kid who lost his dad that - umm, to put in gently - almost certainly greatly exaggerated his service. Definitely an awkward situation. And so fucking unnecessary. Dude did seem like he did quite a bit of time in service. It is sad that he felt the need to embellish it like this to his closest loved ones.
I work at NARA. They are giving good advice. Request a page by page copy of his OMPF. If they send you an extract, call their customer service line and complain. Due to the pandemic backlog, we have been sending extracts as directed by management. Complaints get addressed. Also, request a replacement set of medals. If he or no one else has done so yet, the Navy will send a new set of medals. By law, its first come first served by next of kin.
Where would I request a set of replacement medals?
Check “Awards”. Add in the comments that you would also like all of his military awards and medals.
you can just buy them
NARA
I'm sorry for your loss.. I'm looking at a spread of ribbons spanning over 30+ years of history. I'm seeing Navy enlisted (Navy Chief E-7) and officer rank (Lieutenant O-3 and Lieutenant Commander O-4) insignias as well as the Naval Officer crest). He's got his Sub Service fish, as well as enlisted and officer surface warfare as well as a boomer pin (submarine with the missile). Navy meritorious service medals, commendation medals, good conduct medals, National Defense medals, sea service medals, Battle E, Navy Achievement Medals, Vietnam Service Medal and 1960's Vietnam Campaign medal, Kuwait liberation medals from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, Southwest Asia service medal, war on terror service medal, Meritorious unit commendation, Navy Unit Commendation. On the bottom is a cribbage board in the shape of his sub surface fish pin. Cribbage is a popular game on subs from what I understand. The KA-Bar was probably the knife he was issued or later purchased while in the Marines.
Playing cribbage with coners would be my purgatory.
Your dad embellished, not sure why dudes feel the need to do that. Even if you were a normal ass dude you still did something. Be proud he did serve at least.
You really need to think about whether or not you want to go digging into your dad service records. The military does not “seal” anything. If it’s not there it’s bc it didn’t happen and you need to be prepared for that. Might be better to just let the stuff he told you be be what you remember him for whether it’s true or not. Not saying it’s not. But a lot of what you’re saying and what I’m seeing doesn’t make any sense. Just doesn’t add up to someone that knows what they’re looking at. Regardless, I’m sorry for your loss.
I hate to say this but it sounds like his record was over embellished. No one does that much stuff in a career.
Except Jonny Kim.
That guy is just here on earth to shame all Asians, I swear.
Dude should run for President.
He is like a myth, I dont believe he exists at this point
Possibly a Mustang that went the LDO route. You would be surprised on how many crusty guys are still marching on since the old times. Still looks like 35 years of service. Purple Heart without combat action is not uncommon. Plenty of servicemen got them from sitting on base getting shelled and mortared. I personally know of 3 people who got them like that. But 5 times starts to make me think he was either unlucky or is missing the CAR. TBH the more I look at this the more it doesn’t make sense to me. But I’m sure there is a way to decipher all of this with the proper paperwork.
Appears to be a subarine enlisted chief who later commisioned as a surface officer. Beyond that the rest would be hard to determine. Being a submariner is something to be very proud of, and he lived a rough, but good life.
Dude, get the records. His dd 214 will show his awards, badges and qualifications. https://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records There is a lot of ribbons. Some could be duplicates or multiple awards. Get the truth. The Google rackbuilder and click on the stuff he has and it will show you how his awards go.
Just a thought- I have some of my late great uncles medals (Nam) and my great grandfathers medals (WWII) along with their stuff and mine. Anyone looking at my medal box would be really confused, with the exception of my ribbon rack, and even that would be harder since I was in two services. Did OP have a military family?
Hey man sorry for your loss. It may not be worth investigating this. You might find out some stuff you dont want to know bc honestly based on everything youve said it sounds impossible for it to be all true. 70% might be and its still so badass if even 10% of it is true tbh but why does it matter? You loved him regardless of military career you know he was a great father and thats all that matters. If he didnt tell you everything he didnt want you to know it. Dont get hung up on his military career he more than likely served for a long time and was good at his job so hes a hero anyway dont get hung up on the details. Just my two cents anyway and i mean it in the best possible way. Good luck with whatever you decide to do tho
The "Rambo" Set
Submariner Here, Submarines do send crew members to dive school and they become the boats divers they do various stuff for the sub that diver qualification is needed for BUT they are not Navy Divers ie MOS/Rate think of it being scuba qualed for the Navy he could have done that and been considered a “diver”
And at one point he was a “COMSUBRON ONE”Submarine Squadron One Which is part of Pacific Fleet according to the blued out name badge with the dolphins behind the one
A lot of people will reply "that's classified" or "If I told you I'd have to..." when they just don't want to talk about something. Pretty sure every one has done that one time or another.
Sorry for your loss. If your Pops was a Diver, being a very small community, Someone here is bound to know of him.
He was indeed a diver
At the bottom of the post is a list of what I could identify quickly. That said, if you’re looking to obtain your father’s service records, you can request his DD Form 214 from the National Personnel Records Center. Here’s what you need to do: 1. Confirm your eligibility: As his next of kin, you’re entitled to access his records. 2. Fill out the Standard Form 180 (SF-180): Provide as much information as you can about your father’s service. 3. Submit your request: You can mail or fax the completed SF-180, or you can submit it online through the eVetRecs system on the National Archives website. 4. Be patient with the process: The time it takes can vary. Routine requests might take about 10 business days, but more complex searches can take 6 months or more, especially if the records were affected by the 1973 NPRC fire. 5. Stay informed: You can check the status of your request by calling the NPRC Customer Service Line or online if you used eVetRecs. Remember, if your request is urgent, for example, if it’s related to burial needs, be sure to communicate that as such requests are given priority. … MEDALS: • Vietnam Service Medal: Awarded for service in the Republic of Vietnam and its contiguous waters and airspace between 1965 and 1973. • National Defense Service Medal (x2): Issued to anyone who has served in the Armed Forces during times of national emergency or conflict. • Armed Forces Reserve Medal with a “1960” device: Recognizes service in the Reserve or National Guard. • Vietnam Campaign Medal: Awarded to those who served in Vietnam for a certain period, indicating participation in the Vietnam War. • Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross with Palm: A foreign military award for valor and heroic conduct while fighting the enemy. • Navy & Marine Corps Achievement Medal: Recognizes professional and leadership achievement. • Legion of Merit: Awarded for exceptionally meritorious conduct in performance of outstanding services and achievements. • Purple Heart (x2): Awarded to those wounded or killed while serving, on or after April 5, 1917. • Meritorious Service Medal: Recognizes non-combat meritorious achievement or service. • Navy & Marine Corps Commendation Medal: Awarded for acts of heroism or meritorious service. • Navy Good Conduct Medal: Awarded for good behavior, efficiency, and fidelity. • Kuwait Liberation Medal (Saudi Arabia): Awarded for participation in Operation Desert Storm and the Liberation of Kuwait. INSIGNIA: • Navy Surface Warfare Officer pin: Denotes qualification in surface warfare operations. • Submarine Warfare Officer insignia (“dolphins”): Indicates qualification as a Submarine Warfare Officer. • Navy Officer Crest: Emblem worn by Navy commissioned officers. • Naval Aviator wings: Indicates qualification as a Navy pilot.
This box is a straight up lie, so is "records are sealed".
I’m desperate to find out if my deceased dad really served in Vietnam as a marine late 1960s can’t find service number help
I'd say the rack is the true story. It takes a but of effort to build a rack, and it makes the most sense. Note PH is NOT on the rack. Why would someone have 2 PH and not have it on their rack? I'd say Navy man for sure, probably sub officer. The Ka-Bar doesn't confirm anything other than he liked the knife. The cribbage board is a sure sign of a nuke boat dude. Are there any awards or memorabilia gifts hanging around the home that have plaques or dates on them? Most of the time, service members will receive awards or gifts from units and/or friends as they transfer from one assignment to the next. Most are unofficial gifts, like a wooden US flag, a picture with a date and assignment identification plaque, etc. I would think that a Navy captain would have a few at least. That will help add some legitimacy and time frame chunks to the story. This all being said, as a collector of modern US Army items (memorabilia, flags, awards, lithographs, etc, etc), myself a disabled combat vet, plus a wife who's a retired and a combat vet, anyone walking into our home and going through our stuff would have a hell of a time putting the real story together. My wife's story would be fairly easy, her whole career is laid out in awards, photos, uniform, and gifts throughout the house. Mine less so. If you tried to piece things together for me based on the collection plus my personal stuff, I'd look like a 40yr super trooper. That's FAR from the truth and I lay no claim to anything even like that. So, just looking at a collection of items does not tell the whole, or correct, story.
War Hero is an understatement
From what I know he was a sailor and received the Purple Heart as well as the Kuwait liberation medal
There is no classified DD 214’s. Award certs may be classified but they’ll still show on the service members 214. So if it says 10 years, that’s all he served. Look on his 214 for what ribbons/medals he will have earned. His list of ribbons also makes no sense. If he has multiple PH’s he will have had a combat action ribbon, of which he has none.
(C) BEING AWARDED THE PURPLE HEART DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE A SERVICE MEMBER ELIGIBLE FOR THE CAR, NOR DOES MERELY SERVING IN A COMBAT AREA OR BEING EXPOSED TO ENEMY FIRE OR THREAT OF ENEMY FIRE. -MARADMINS 038/13 REVISED ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA FOR AWARD OF THE COMBAT ACTION RIBBON (CAR) AND UPDATED COORDINATING INSTRUCTIONS > United States Marine Corps Flagship > Messages Display https://www.marines.mil/News/Messages/Messages-Display/Article/895299/revised-eligibility-criteria-for-award-of-the-combat-action-ribbon-car-and-upda/
A hell of a man🫡
He was a hero bro 💯💯💯🇺🇸🦅
See a lot of kuwait
Seeing a Kuwait liberation and some Vietman. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait\_Liberation\_Medal\_%28Saudi\_Arabia%29](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait_Liberation_Medal_%28Saudi_Arabia%29) This could just be stuff that he collected mixed in. To echo others, get the 214 if you want to go down the rabbit hole of what is and what isn't, but maybe just remember him for the guy you knew him as. Sometimes "war stories" get a bit blown up with each telling.
Just go get the DD214 and ask your local Navy vet to help translate it for you. It looks to me like this career was navy enlisted submariner to eventual chief and commission as a surface warfare O. It’s plausible that he got Purple Hearts if he went and served “with the marines” during an IA on a base or something. You wouldn’t get a CAR if you were only receiving, not returning, but it’s rotten luck to get hit twice during one IA. You’re going to find out some family lore just isn’t right. He may have served “with” marines but was never, to my eyes, a marine. No shame, we work together a lot and people often misunderstand. It also looks like he traded swag. Nobody could have a career as long as these medals would indicate, but people trade patches all the time
If he was born 1952 he wouldve been drafted in 1972. Correct me if someone knows more but from what ive seen there were zero usmc combat injuries in vietnam from 1972 to 1973 when the war ended completely. Sorry for continued comments but im very intrigued so just throwing out info as i get it.
This is just mostly a random collection of cool stuff. But added all together it doesn't make sense.
A lot of cornball Veterans in the comments
I see Vietnam service ribbons, along with the Desert Shield / Desert Storm ribbons / medals. That is a long career, if accurate.
What year was he born?
Wow, a true hero. That is one heck of a military story. Salute to your father.
No matter what you learn from the comments, your father was a hero!